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Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to

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Speaker 1: the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so

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Speaker 1: much for tuning in. Let's hear it for our super producer,

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Speaker 1: Max the monopoly Man William.

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Speaker 2: I was thinking of something like that, Max the Landlord. Yea,

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Speaker 2: the Landlord's Games.

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Speaker 1: The original, the original version of Monopoly was called The

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Speaker 1: Landlord's Game, and it's a it's a warning, a clarion call,

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Speaker 1: and a parable about the dangers of unfettered capitalism. Spoiler.

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Speaker 1: That's part of why Monopoly as it stands now is broken.

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Speaker 1: It's a broken game and it breaks a lot of

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Speaker 1: families over the holidays. You're mister Noel Brown. Yes, kren Bollin,

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Speaker 1: I am from earlier and nol. This is going to

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Speaker 1: be a fun win for us because we discussed it

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Speaker 1: a little bit in an episode of our sister show Stuff.

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Speaker 1: They don't want you to know. Maybe the best way

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Speaker 1: to get into it is to talk about real estate.

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Speaker 1: It's always been kind of a hot, sometimes touchy commodity.

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Speaker 3: It's real estate.

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Speaker 2: They ain't making any more land, right or maybe we'll

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Speaker 2: say a TBD on that. So yeah, with billions of

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Speaker 2: people across this planet of ours. Real estate has always

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Speaker 2: been that thing hot and sometimes.

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Speaker 3: Touchy, as you said, commodity.

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Speaker 2: However, on a local level we start to see the

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Speaker 2: prices of housing and rent playing huge roles in a

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Speaker 2: particular or community's success and or failure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and then if we scope out to a regional level,

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Speaker 1: we will see that states and nations, pretty much since

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Speaker 1: civilization began have always been constantly fighting over who gets

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Speaker 1: to own certain things, often with bloody results.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, min ys am, I.

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Speaker 1: Right, shotgun, either as in calling dibbs or using firearms.

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Speaker 3: So to threaten people to stay off my land.

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Speaker 1: Right, And for the most part, people aren't building new

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Speaker 1: land technically, there are endeavors out in East Asia and

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Speaker 1: in the Middle East to make new islands or to

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Speaker 1: expand existing land.

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Speaker 3: What about terraforming Mars? How are we doing on that?

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Speaker 1: Still in the drawing board phase? Yeah, but outside of

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Speaker 1: a few places like Antarctica, which has been dedicated to

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Speaker 1: pure scientific research due to the ant Arctic a Treaty's And.

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Speaker 3: Also it ain't good for much else given the inhospitable climbs.

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Speaker 1: Right, it's great for building snowmen, but or accidentally becoming

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Speaker 1: a snowman if you're outside too long. But outside of

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Speaker 1: places like Antarctica or the Moon, maybe Mars, to your point,

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Speaker 1: it seems like every other place on Earth is kind

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Speaker 1: of owned by someone.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a real estate land whatever is what they

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Speaker 2: might call at a premium places like New York City,

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Speaker 2: where everything is even more.

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Speaker 3: Scarce in terms of literal space.

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Speaker 2: You start seeing things just getting stacked on top of

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Speaker 2: each other, you know, up as far as allowable limits

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Speaker 2: might dictate.

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Speaker 3: What are those called air rights?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, air rights up into airspace? How far can you go?

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Speaker 1: How much? How much of the air past the top

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Speaker 1: of your building.

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Speaker 3: Do you own? Can you own the air? Can you

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Speaker 3: own the wind? Can you own a I would love.

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Speaker 1: To be able to of the wind? Some people do

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Speaker 1: own songs, which will be a fun episode for us

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Speaker 1: to explore in the future.

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Speaker 3: Colors of the Wind. It could be reinterpreted as a

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Speaker 3: song about synaesthesia.

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Speaker 1: There it is, and I love it. I'm here for

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Speaker 1: it as a sena state. So, as we're going to

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Speaker 1: see in today's episode, it turns out, despite this huge

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Speaker 1: land grabs that's been going on for all of human

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Speaker 1: ridiculous history, there are some parts of planet Earth that

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Speaker 1: literally nobody wants. One of our favorites is a little

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Speaker 1: place called beer how will.

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Speaker 2: If you might pull up a map of Africa or

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Speaker 2: the African continent, and perchance zoom in on the border

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Speaker 2: between Sudan and Egypt, you might notice a little something odd,

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Speaker 2: a postage stamp sized seven nine ninety five square mile

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Speaker 2: piece of land sandwiched betwixt those two countries. Egypt says

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Speaker 2: it belongs to Sudan, Sudan says it belongs to Eai.

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Speaker 3: Wait anut wouldn't usually be the other way around, right?

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Speaker 3: What about the mine of it all? That's right?

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Speaker 1: What about the mind of it all?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 3: Whatever does yours?

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Speaker 1: I love betwixt as well. So both countries make maps

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Speaker 1: to this day claiming the other country owns this little

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Speaker 1: spot of lands.

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Speaker 3: Take it, please, please take it.

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Speaker 1: And they keep trying to just push their own versions

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Speaker 1: of the truth and get the United Nations to accept it.

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Speaker 1: Our friends over at the Guardian can tell you how

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Speaker 1: to get to beerta will spelled. It's two different words,

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Speaker 1: bi r space tawil. Spoiler, folks, it is super inconvenient

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Speaker 1: to get over to this place.

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Speaker 3: Let's go take some doing.

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Speaker 2: According to The Guardian, to get there, you have two choices,

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Speaker 2: they say. The first is to fly to the Sudanese

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Speaker 2: capital Khartoum, charter a jeep and follow the Shindy Road

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Speaker 2: hundreds of miles up to Abu Ahmed, which is a

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Speaker 2: settlement that dates back to the ancient kingdom.

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Speaker 3: Of Kush, which I love the name of that kingdom.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, reasons fun to say. But also is that it's

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Speaker 2: a we'd thing right, Yes, it's a.

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Speaker 1: Cannabis term today. The Guardian continues, this settlement Abuhamad, serves

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Speaker 1: as the region's final permanent human outposts before you reach

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Speaker 1: the vast waste of the Nubian desert. It is twice

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Speaker 1: the size of mainland Britain. It's almost completely barren. The

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Speaker 1: second option they mentioned is to approach from Egypt, which

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Speaker 1: means you have to go to the southernmost city, Aswan.

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Speaker 1: You have to somehow find your way down through the

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Speaker 1: inhospitable expanse between Lake Nasser to the west and the

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Speaker 1: Red Sea to the east. This is going to be

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Speaker 1: a tougher option because the Egyptian Army considers this a

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Speaker 1: restricted zone, so you got to get a lot of

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Speaker 1: paperwork before you go blessed eb shot at Yes, blessed

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Speaker 1: eb shotgun to pollen. And once you arrive, here's the thing, folks,

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Speaker 1: if you make it to actual beerta will you are

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Speaker 1: going to be unimpressed.

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Speaker 2: It is deserted unless you're into barren, uninhabited places with

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Speaker 2: no signs of human life or activity. That's because beer

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Speaker 2: to Wheel is exactly that thing. There are no traces

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Speaker 2: of permanent inhabitants, no roads and on need roads. It's

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Speaker 2: not governed by any law. The land cover is sand

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Speaker 2: and several mountains are the only features to speak of.

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Speaker 2: It is a real life no man's land or terra

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Speaker 2: nullius and nullius. And Ben also makes me think of

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Speaker 2: something we talked about on stuff they don't want you

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Speaker 2: to know about some places where a lot of these

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Speaker 2: like phone bank scams take place, and they're these like

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Speaker 2: sort of off the books, lawless regions in the jungle

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Speaker 2: where these kinds of operations are able to you know,

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Speaker 2: sort of go unnoticed by any international authority or even

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Speaker 2: national authority.

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Speaker 3: I mean where that was Ben, we'd.

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Speaker 1: Be thinking specifically, Yeah, me and mar there in Southeast Asia.

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Speaker 1: Check out the work by our colleague Denise Chan on

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Speaker 1: the scam industry. There scam factory excellent, and a lot

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Speaker 1: of those folks are working there against their will. Always remember,

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Speaker 1: even if a scammer is calling you, they might be

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Speaker 1: forced to do so. Also, I love the point about

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Speaker 1: whether or not you will find bertel Will impressive. Fellow

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Speaker 1: ridiculous historians. I fondly recall one of the first times

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Speaker 1: I saw the desert ecosystem of the United States, and

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Speaker 1: it struck me that if a god exists, this must

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Speaker 1: be the place where that god got into abstract art.

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Speaker 1: So if you like abstract art, you might like bertel Will,

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Speaker 1: but you will be hard pressed to find a decent.

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Speaker 3: Root beer flo uh yeah, or maybe even like potable water.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: The land terranilius.

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Speaker 2: By the way, the term we were talking about a

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Speaker 2: moment ago is a Latin phrase meaning land belonging to

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Speaker 2: no one, and describes a territory or territories that aren't

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Speaker 2: claimed or recognized by any state or sovereign authority. In

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Speaker 2: the international law community, this is a concept that's often

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Speaker 2: been used to justify occupation of said land because no

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Speaker 2: one called dibbs this land, being not under any formal

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Speaker 2: government control, even when there might be a handful of

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Speaker 2: settlers there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there are people who have been living there for

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Speaker 1: untold millenniash. This goes back to the days of colonialism

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Speaker 1: where you could just plant a flag and say shotgun.

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Speaker 1: You know this is now France somehow. Yeah right, they.

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Speaker 3: Called dibbs.

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Speaker 1: Right, and border disputes going back to your earlier point,

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Speaker 1: they're all too common in ancient and modern history. But

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Speaker 1: usually those disputes, overwhelmingly, those disputes arise from two or

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Speaker 1: more nations all wanting to own the same piece of property.

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Speaker 1: This is the opposite of that. For more, it's so weird.

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Speaker 1: For more than a century, both Egypt and Sudan have

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Speaker 1: looked at this desolate stretch of abstract art desert and

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Speaker 1: said no, no, no, seriously, no you take it. No, no, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: you guys take it.

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Speaker 2: And I mean you might be thinking to yourself, like,

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Speaker 2: why wouldn't even do that? It seems like, you know,

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Speaker 2: empires have always been built on like acquiring and conquering,

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Speaker 2: and you know, planting that flag it must have something

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Speaker 2: to do with it not being a particularly worthwhile strategic anything.

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Speaker 1: It has everything to do with that, And you nailed it.

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Speaker 1: So how did we get here? The quick origin story

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Speaker 1: to understand this truly ridiculous, mad cap situation, we got

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Speaker 1: a traveled back to the British occupation of Egypt in

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Speaker 1: eighteen eighty two. So ostensibly they made a short term solution.

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Speaker 1: They wanted to protect British monetary interests, the Empire's interest

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Speaker 1: in the country of Egypt, and they also wanted to

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Speaker 1: control local trade. They were super pissed at the Ottoman

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Speaker 1: Empire at this time, so they wanted to fu's with

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Speaker 1: the Ottoman Empire, and they wanted to strengthen their control

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Speaker 1: or influence on the Suez Canal. This seizure of land

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Speaker 1: kickstarted what we call the Scramble of African If you

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Speaker 1: fast forward to eighteen ninety nine, you run into a

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Speaker 1: very fancily and confusingly named thing, the Anglo Egyptian Condominium Agreement.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what's that about? The Egyptian condominiums as like a timeshare.

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Speaker 2: This is what set the border between these two countries

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Speaker 2: at the twenty second parallel during the era of peak colonialism.

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Speaker 2: The Brits were essentially making an executive decision about this

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Speaker 2: without particularly consulting anybody else, specifically the locals. The first

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Speaker 2: attempt to redraw those boundaries followed a similar pattern to

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Speaker 2: how European powers might have drawn up the rest or

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Speaker 2: sliced up, carved up the rest of Africa, using straight

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Speaker 2: lines with very little consideration for geographical features cultural divides,

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Speaker 2: you know, between the different regions, or going along with that,

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Speaker 2: ethnic differences, as we know in this part of the

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Speaker 2: world can vary widely in a very small distance across

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Speaker 2: very small.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah, because cultural boundaries can often be distinct from

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Speaker 1: geographical boundaries. And I love that point. Somebody looked at

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Speaker 1: the map, we don't have to get into it. If

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Speaker 1: someone looked at the map, thought of the parallels and

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Speaker 1: just took a line and a ruler and went ship yep,

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Speaker 1: chippy choppy, chippy choppy, tiketiboo, tally ho. They in a

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Speaker 1: rare backstep or backpedal for the Empire. Just a few

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Speaker 1: years later, in nineteen o two, the United Kingdom drew

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Speaker 1: a separate, different boundary for administrative purposes. This is where

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Speaker 1: the map starts to go wrong. Now at this time,

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Speaker 1: still Egypt and Suddan are not really independent. They are

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Speaker 1: vassal states or vassal regions of the British Empire. So officially,

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Speaker 1: our friends the Brits hope that these new boundaries can

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Speaker 1: reflect the land based on what you were saying, No,

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Speaker 1: the use by locals in the area. Right, So if

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Speaker 1: these folks consider themselves Egyptian, why don't we call it

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Speaker 1: this part Egyptian territory. But unofficially, see, that was what

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Speaker 1: they sold to the PC masses. Unofficially they had a

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Speaker 1: race for resource extraction and control, and they kind of

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Speaker 1: they made this deal go through by softly implying in

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Speaker 1: back rooms that this was a temporary solution. It was

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Speaker 1: a band aid. We're just keeping we just keeping things

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Speaker 1: stable until the more permanent solution can be found.

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Speaker 3: Keep calm and move on, motherfuckers. Right, chin up, and

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Speaker 3: thanks for the beep there, Thanks for the beep, their macks.

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Speaker 3: This was not the truth.

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Speaker 1: They were making a long term play to carve up

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Speaker 1: and further control the area. So the new boundary in

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Speaker 1: nineteen oh two puts this tiny little as you said,

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Speaker 1: postage stamp beer to will as part of Egypt. And

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Speaker 1: the reason they do this is because at the time,

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Speaker 1: back then, there's a semi nomadic tribe the Ababda, and

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Speaker 1: they're from Egypt. They use this land as grazy land

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Speaker 1: for their animals. But the situation becomes complicated because on

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Speaker 1: the other side, if you go just a little bit

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Speaker 1: further east to the coast of the Red Sea, there's

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Speaker 1: another piece of land or property that switches.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: You either own the you either own the area of

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Speaker 1: the inhospitable desert of Beerta Will, or you control something

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Speaker 1: called the Halib triangle.

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Speaker 2: So is Birto Will just kind of the shape that

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Speaker 2: got left out from all this carving, just the little

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Speaker 2: like leftover remnant that nobody wanted because they had already

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Speaker 2: taken their bits, and this was the part that like

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Speaker 2: nothing quite intersected with. And now it's this inconvenient truth

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Speaker 2: that they have to reconcile to some degree.

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Speaker 1: It's the weakness. Yeah, it's little dingus of the thing

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Speaker 1: because they again they just like you were saying, drew

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Speaker 1: that straight line across the p lell and this is

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Speaker 1: where okay, so this is where we get to a

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Speaker 1: mutually exclusive thing. You can either own beirta Will or

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Speaker 1: you can own the Halib Triangle. And pardon our pronunciation,

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Speaker 1: we're not native Arabic speakers, the triangle is by far

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Speaker 1: the better piece of real estate. We're talking park Place

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Speaker 1: versus one of the dumb Monopoly squares at the very

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Speaker 1: beginning of the game Jail right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: like that. So here's why the triangle is so much better.

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Speaker 1: It's on the coast of the Red Sea, so you

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Speaker 1: have sea access, and it is much larger. It's seven

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Speaker 1: nine hundred and fifty square miles approximately, and a lot

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Speaker 1: of that area is not in hospitable desert. So both

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Speaker 1: Egypt and Sudan want the triangle. The area the triangle

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Speaker 1: initially comes under control of the British Governor of Sudan.

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Speaker 1: Neither country is super happy about this. Egypt and Sudan

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Speaker 1: both want the triangle, but ultimately they answered to Britain,

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Speaker 1: so they can't really do anything about it except steam

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Speaker 1: slowly and cooking their own juices. Problems really start when

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Speaker 1: these countries both become independent.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it happens in nineteen fifty six when Sudan claimed ownership.

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Speaker 2: At which time, rather Sudan claimed ownership of the Halaib Triangle,

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Speaker 2: but Egypt then said not so fast. The Sudan stating

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Speaker 2: that the nineteen oh two administrative boundary was meant to

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Speaker 2: be temporary. So the Halaib Triangle, for all intents and purposes,

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Speaker 2: according to Egypt anyway, belonged to Egypt, and the beer

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Speaker 2: Ta Will was Sudan's.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and Sudan said exactly the opposite. So each country

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Speaker 1: for more than a hundred years now, how ridiculous is this,

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Speaker 1: each of them insists that the map that shows the

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Speaker 1: triangle as their territory is the real map. And as

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Speaker 1: a side effect, neither country will ever claim beer Ta

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Speaker 1: Will because if they did so, they would agree with

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Speaker 1: the other guy's map and they would sacrifice their claim

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Speaker 1: to that juicy triangle. It's so surreal the country's leaders like,

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Speaker 1: no matter who is in government, even after the split

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Speaker 1: between Sudan and South Sudan in our lifetimes, every leader

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Speaker 1: of both of these countries just keeps accusing the other

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Speaker 1: guy of owning beer Ta Will.

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Speaker 2: It's very doctor Strangelove, very you pointed out, and Joseph

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Speaker 2: Heller makes me think of something curvan and it might

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Speaker 2: get wrapped up in this idea of a place that

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Speaker 2: frontons and purposes at least two those concerned does not exist. However,

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Speaker 2: you know, people do pass through it. It exists, you know,

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Speaker 2: as a geographical feature, and.

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Speaker 1: So you do.

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Speaker 2: Well, there aren't very many folks who have settled it.

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Speaker 2: You will see nomadic communities passing through.

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Speaker 1: Oh.

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Speaker 3: Ben.

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Speaker 2: You also pointed out that professor Alistair Bonnett, who's a

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Speaker 2: social geographer and author of The Unruly Places, described it

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Speaker 2: as the only habitable place on Earth not currently claimed

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Speaker 2: by any recognized government, which supports I think we've been.

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Speaker 1: Saying, you try to make somebody else claim it.

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Speaker 3: Take it man now. But so back to the nomadic communities, Ben,

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Speaker 3: they passed through.

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Speaker 2: You get folks maybe panning for gold and things like that,

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Speaker 2: temporarily setting up to try to extract some resources.

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Speaker 3: But in general it's it's still got that terrannolious thing

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Speaker 3: going for it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And this is this is where we get

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Speaker 1: to a bit of a bookend, right, because of course,

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Speaker 1: shout out to Tim and Eric. You look at this

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Speaker 1: and some people think it's free real estate, right, it's

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Speaker 1: free real estate. We got the keys for you right here.

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Speaker 1: So multiple people we have tried to exercise this old

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Speaker 1: colonial idea of Terra nulius and create what we will

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Speaker 1: call a micronation thing. Is a lot of these folks

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Speaker 1: haven't actually visited. They've gone online and said, I this

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Speaker 1: is me, now I own this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, good luck once you actually get there and see

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Speaker 2: how rough ago you're probably gonna.

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Speaker 3: Have of it there in that absolutely brutal climate.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, And this goes back to an old hobby

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Speaker 1: horse of ours folks from years ago, the concept of micronations.

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Speaker 1: Please check out our earlier episodes in multiples.

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: The Principality of Sealand that's a cool one. It's an

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Speaker 1: old fort off the coast of the United Kingdom.

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Speaker 3: Anyway.

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Speaker 1: One of the most interesting attempts to control beerta Will

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Speaker 1: occurs in twenty fourteen. A lot of people are trying

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Speaker 1: to do this, but there's one guy who doesn't just

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Speaker 1: talk trash on the internet. His name's Jeremiah Heaton, and

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Speaker 1: he travels in person to Beard tall Will. His motivation

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Speaker 1: is odd and pretty noble because ever since she was

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Speaker 1: a wee tyke, his daughter, Emily had been obsessed with

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Speaker 1: the idea of becoming a real princess.

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Speaker 2: I mean, okay, as everybody's little daughter up to an age. Right,

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Speaker 2: man dude seemed to he's got Amelia Badelia disorder. He's

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Speaker 2: taking it very literally.

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Speaker 1: Oh what a great reference was I recently reread an

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Speaker 1: Amelia Badillia book. This guy Jeremiah, he says where his

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Speaker 1: official reasoning is, Beard Tall Will is my chance to

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Speaker 1: make my daughter Emily's dream a reality. So as a

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Speaker 1: birthday present, daughter, O mine, I am traveling to Beard

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Speaker 1: to Will. I'm gonna take ownership of this disputed land,

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Speaker 1: this terror, nullius, no desires. I'm going to found a

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Speaker 1: new country. We'll call it the Kingdom of North Sudan.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to install myself as head of state and

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Speaker 1: a burst of humility, and then I will make you

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Speaker 1: my daughter at actual princess. Yeah, and she also gets

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Speaker 1: a pony, and she got yeah, all the Barbie dolls.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It's a lot, man.

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Speaker 3: This is this guy.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what he was going for quite here.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I'm all about the love of a father

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Speaker 2: for their offspring. This seems like it's taking in an

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Speaker 2: odd direction. He did, in fact, plant a flag and

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Speaker 2: started a campaign to raise two hundred and fifty thousand

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Speaker 2: US dollars in order to help develop this new nation.

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Speaker 2: Seems low for developing of a nation. Yeah, in pr terms.

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Speaker 3: This is an absolute brutal miss to you.

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Speaker 1: It was terrible.

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Speaker 3: It was. It was so bad.

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Speaker 1: It was on the level of that time during the

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Speaker 1: COVID nineteen lockdown where a bunch of celebrities started singing

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Speaker 1: that song together.

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Speaker 3: Remember I don't know which song it was, but it

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Speaker 3: was definitely cringe.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was pretty tote.

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Speaker 3: It a We are the World esque situation, but even

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Speaker 3: more tone deaf.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was an attempt. It was a swing and

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Speaker 1: a miss. It was a big with and so was

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Speaker 1: Jeremiah Heaton's attempt here. Now we haven't spoken with mister

383
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Speaker 1: Heaton ourselves, but what we can see is that instead

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Speaker 1: of people contributing toward this two hundred and fifty thousand

385
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Speaker 1: US dollars goal, instead folks from across the planet united

386
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Speaker 1: as haters and critics, and they said, you were not

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Speaker 1: being cool. This is not about your daughter, dude. You're

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Speaker 1: trying to bring back colonialism. You are twenty first century imperialist.

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Speaker 2: M and perhaps even a twenty first century schizoid man,

390
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Speaker 2: because he was absolutely dripping. This is a wild, outlandish

391
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Speaker 2: idea that went absolutely nowhere, and I.

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Speaker 3: Just don't get it. It's just he going for here.

393
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Speaker 2: Do you think it was really just to impress his kid,

394
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Speaker 2: as there's so many better ways of going about that.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. It reminds me to this will be

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Speaker 1: familiar to any of our friends in the audience who

397
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Speaker 1: might have a well meaning but tone deaf relative or parent,

398
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Speaker 1: because sometimes you get that, you get that present where

399
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Speaker 1: Oh I'm thinking in particular, I won't give names, but

400
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 1: I'm thinking in particular of an old friend of mine.

401
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:32,120
Speaker 1: Her parents have been separated for a long time, right,

402
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:33,919
Speaker 1: but the dad and the mom are still in their

403
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:37,639
Speaker 1: daughter's life. And the dad is so tone deaf that

404
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:41,560
Speaker 1: because his daughter all like back when she was six

405
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:45,440
Speaker 1: or eight years old, said she liked leopard print as

406
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 1: a child. Every time her birthday comes up, this guy

407
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 1: just gets her something vaguely leopard themed, and she's talked

408
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 1: to him about it.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I was gonna say, we didn't even have the

410
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Speaker 2: heart to tell him, but yeah, I got you, super

411
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Speaker 2: super bizarre.

412
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 3: I get it.

413
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 2: This is like the most to the nth degree version

414
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:05,960
Speaker 2: of that kind of well meaning this and I would argue,

415
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,160
Speaker 2: per the Internet, this is maybe not even well meaning,

416
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 2: Like maybe there's something else going on.

417
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,879
Speaker 1: Here right now. The official reason versus unofficial on.

418
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 2: The lore, the the myth making of it all. The

419
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 2: only structured, an ongoing claim to this region or this

420
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 2: strip of Noman's land comes from the Prince get An

421
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 2: actual facts, Prince orn Voclbam Giovanni Caparaso Gottlieb.

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00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, of beer to Will if you ask him. Yeah.

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00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:41,119
Speaker 1: So unlike the more symbolic or the more Internet driven

424
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,440
Speaker 1: claims of the past, this guy is really putting the

425
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,440
Speaker 1: work in. He must have the capital to burn. He

426
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:55,680
Speaker 1: has created this initiative that includes a theoretical framework of governance.

427
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,239
Speaker 1: It has a resident population, and it has people who

428
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:04,280
Speaker 1: claim that they are diplomats. They even put their money

429
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:08,159
Speaker 1: where their mouth is, and they're calling themselves the Principality

430
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 1: of birds Will. And they submitted a request earlier this year,

431
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 1: in January of twenty twenty five, to be admitted to

432
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 1: the United Nations as an observer state. They really want

433
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 1: that legitimacy.

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00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 3: They just want to audit basically, you know, just sit

435
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 3: in the back of the class and just check it out. Yeah,

436
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:27,920
Speaker 3: they just want to be in the room, you know.

437
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 1: And we see that with the actually we see that

438
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:34,920
Speaker 1: with a lot of emergent would be countries did not

439
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,439
Speaker 1: micro nations. Yeah, and that's how you like get your

440
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 1: foot in the door.

441
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:40,159
Speaker 3: Just hang out, yeah network.

442
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 1: Yeah.

443
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, so later you.

444
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 1: Can say, oh, I am an actual state because you

445
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:47,639
Speaker 1: guys let me hang out in the back. Remember, I

446
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 1: didn't vote, I didn't make trouble, I.

447
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 3: Didn't get a grade. But you know, I learned the gist.

448
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:53,640
Speaker 3: I learned the gist.

449
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 1: So make it official. This is the most formal and

450
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 1: ambitious action ever taken regarding this territory since the late

451
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:06,719
Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds early nineteen hundreds.

452
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 3: Well, and it does have a citizenry. It has a population.

453
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 2: According to the twenty twenty fourth census, the principality counts

454
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 2: three thousand and thirty citizens, many of whom belong to

455
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 2: the abbadbah Abadhbah and Bashiri people, nomadic ethnic groups native

456
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:27,400
Speaker 2: to the region. Gottlieb is recognized by local leaders as

457
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:31,400
Speaker 2: the head of state, and the principality maintains a loose

458
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 2: administrative structure that's centered around it's capital, Marianne Station One.

459
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:38,679
Speaker 3: That's a sexy name for a capital.

460
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:44,120
Speaker 1: It's a weird name, right, Where's marian Station two, exactly right.

461
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,959
Speaker 1: It's like how we have how we have certain restaurants

462
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 1: here in Atlanta Cafe Yeah, the three, or Chin Chin

463
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 1: two we used to hang out at all the time

464
00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 1: after work or Foe Di Loi number two. It's very strange.

465
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:06,199
Speaker 1: So the territory does make money, or at least they

466
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 1: publish some loose financials, and their primary source of revenue

467
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 1: is tourism, especially from people who say, I want to

468
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:18,440
Speaker 1: visit a place that technically isn't anywhere.

469
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 2: It's like that place where all the states intersect, you know,

470
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,879
Speaker 2: that little triangle people like to go to on Goofy

471
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:25,440
Speaker 2: road trips.

472
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:27,920
Speaker 3: Not Goofy. It's absolutely a viable place to visit, but

473
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 3: it does seem like one of those you know, like

474
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,119
Speaker 3: families in the Winnebago.

475
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,120
Speaker 2: Going across the country and checking out the place where

476
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 2: all the states meet and then going to see Rock

477
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:37,919
Speaker 2: City a little bit.

478
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 1: Kitchie, right, we're talking about lookout mountains specific and if

479
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 1: the weather is nice, you can see technically a lot

480
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 1: of states, but bring quarters for the binoculars. That's how

481
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 1: they get.

482
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 3: Nothing's for free.

483
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, not in the US. Now, the principality of Beard

484
00:28:55,600 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 1: to Will this would be a nation. This pretend to

485
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 1: the international order. It says, Look, we're neutral, we're multi ethnic,

486
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 1: we're multi religious, we are above all peaceful. We want

487
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 1: to coexist. They have a coexistence bumper sticker on all

488
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 1: their cards. One of those facts was made of Well,

489
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 1: that'll be up to you.

490
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 3: Ridiculous story. It's the guests which one?

491
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 2: And if you ask any official source, they will tell

492
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 2: you the principality does not technically.

493
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 3: Or legally in fact exist.

494
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, here we are yeap. History is weird, folks, and

495
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 1: real estate drug. Yeah, well, history is weird, belief is

496
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 1: a hell of a drug, and real estate is downright ridiculous.

497
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 1: We wanted to ask you a favor here as we're

498
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 1: getting toward the end of this episode and indeed the

499
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 1: end of the calendar year. If you feel so moved folks,

500
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 1: if you are thinking, oh gosh, I'd love to give

501
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 1: the guys a little present for the holiday season, why

502
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 1: not just pop over to your podcast platform of choice,

503
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 1: give us five stars if if you can, and give

504
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 1: us a quick quirky shout out to one of your

505
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 1: favorite episodes. There we go. I think that's fair to

506
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 1: ask that.

507
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 3: Absolutely, it's the least you can do.

508
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 1: Well. We sure appreciate your time, folks. We know things

509
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 1: are always crazy now, and you know there's that old

510
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 1: idiom about how or that old figures speech about how

511
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 1: people often don't want to live in times where history

512
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 1: is being made. But we are here with you and

513
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 1: we can't thank you enough for tuning in. Also, we'd

514
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 1: like to thank our super producer mister Max Williams and

515
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 1: our mysterious in house composer Alex the Nomad Williams.

516
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, very much. A nomadic cat that Alex Williams.

517
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 2: I hope to see him around these parts very soon.

518
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 2: Huge thanks to Christo Frasciotis and he'ves, Jeff Coates here

519
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 2: and Spira, Jonathan Strickland, the quizz A, j Bahamas, Jacob's

520
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 2: up Uzzler.

521
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 1: As well as doctor Rachel Big Spinach Lance and the

522
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 1: Rude Dudes over It Ridiculous Crime. If you dig us,

523
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 1: you'll love them, So tell them we sent you over there.

524
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 1: And uh, I don't know what do you think? Road

525
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 1: trip beiritual will road rules.

526
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 3: Baby, See you next time, folks.

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00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

528
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,