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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Kentucky singer songwriter Sturgil Simpson is used to doing

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Speaker 1: what he wants one he wants, at least until contracting

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Speaker 1: COVID in early March sidelined him. After a rough month

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Speaker 1: long battle with the virus, Sturgil was itching to get

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Speaker 1: back into the studio, so in October he released a

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Speaker 1: surprise bluegrass album that masterfully reworks his back catalog, called

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Speaker 1: Cut and Grass Volume One. Sturgel was in his mid

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Speaker 1: thirties when he found fame as a country artist in Nashville.

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Speaker 1: He had already lived at full life, including the stint

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Speaker 1: in the Navy and years spent working in Salt Lake

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Speaker 1: City rail yards. His outsider status in Nashville only boosted

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Speaker 1: his outlaw peel, but as time passed, Sturgil began to

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Speaker 1: despise the relentless expectations of the major label system. So

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Speaker 1: in true fashion, Sturgil has now taken back control of

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Speaker 1: his career and returned to his independent roots. In this

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Speaker 1: interview with Rick Rubin, Sturgel explains why is bluegrass album

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Speaker 1: is the purest expression of his work, why it bothers

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Speaker 1: him that people often overlook the stories and the songs,

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Speaker 1: and why being classified as a country star has been

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Speaker 1: perhaps the biggest detriment to his career. This is broken

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Speaker 1: record liner notes for the digital age. I'm justin Richmondon.

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Speaker 1: Here's Rick Rubin and Sturgill Simpson. What's happening in Maine?

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Speaker 1: Oh no much man. Sunday morning is a donut day

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Speaker 1: around these parts. So for the kids, So let's my

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Speaker 1: daddy's day to get up early and go handle breakfast

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Speaker 1: and all that from is donuts only on Sundays. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: only on Sundays and only for the kids. I don't

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Speaker 1: I don't touch those shit. So what's your what's your diet? Like? Overall?

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Speaker 1: Mostly I just try to monitor blood pressure. Ever since

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Speaker 1: the it's nothing that's gonna like cause a lot of

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Speaker 1: cholesterol and things like that. Blood pressure or blood oxygen.

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Speaker 1: Blood pressure? Really, how did COVID affect your blood pressure? Uh?

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Speaker 1: The early onset, everything was just insanely high. When I

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Speaker 1: went to the hospital. My initial reading when I checked

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Speaker 1: into that R was like one eighty seven over one

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Speaker 1: sixty four, about to stroke out like an old man.

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Speaker 1: So is that a normal COVID? I hadn't heard that

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Speaker 1: one before, you know, I'm not sure. I Honestly, I

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Speaker 1: was pretty obsessive about it for a couple of months

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Speaker 1: after I had it, and then now I feel like

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Speaker 1: I have superpowers, but so I've gotten kind of lazy.

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Speaker 1: I don't know where the preliminary studies are coming out,

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Speaker 1: but I mean, septems are sort of all over the place.

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Speaker 1: For me, it was just this really intense frontal lobe

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Speaker 1: headache and some severe chest tightness, which is what led

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Speaker 1: me to have her take me in. Yeah, did you

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Speaker 1: did you know people who had it before you had it? No? Man.

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Speaker 1: We we played the last show of our tour on

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Speaker 1: March tenth and Charleston, South Carolina, and it was only

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Speaker 1: that day that there was any type of mainstream media awareness,

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Speaker 1: where like when all the panic buttons started going off

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Speaker 1: and we were all just sort of like, WHOA, there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of people back here, you know. So the

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Speaker 1: next day we had off. We're supposed to be heading

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Speaker 1: to I think Virginia or Philly for some shows that weekend,

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Speaker 1: and my wife and I were still in Charleston. I

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Speaker 1: was just like, man, I don't feel right, Like I

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Speaker 1: was just physically just I don't know how to even

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Speaker 1: describe it. Man, it was so the most intense fatigue

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Speaker 1: I felt in a long time. And you know this job,

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Speaker 1: if there's one thing that you become accustomed to, it's fatigue.

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Speaker 1: But this was something different. So and then that that

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Speaker 1: day I just told her. I was like, I don't think.

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Speaker 1: I think I need to go home and rest, like

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Speaker 1: something's not right. I can't breathe, and all the inner

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Speaker 1: voices like I probably got this shit in Europe, like

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Speaker 1: here we go. And then the next morning I was

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Speaker 1: in the hospital, so wow, and how long we in

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Speaker 1: the hospital for? Oh? I was just there for about

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Speaker 1: six or seven hours. They would and well, they wouldn't

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Speaker 1: even test me. And then the doctors spent about forty

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Speaker 1: minutes sitting on my bed with his mask off, telling

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Speaker 1: me all the reasons why I couldn't possibly have contracted

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Speaker 1: and it wasn't Europe at that time, and it was

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Speaker 1: so rare and all the stuff we now know to

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Speaker 1: be completely false, and not to complain, there's a whole

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Speaker 1: lot of people in a hell of a lot worse

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Speaker 1: shape than I was. But so how did you know

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Speaker 1: you had it if they wouldn't test you? Just what

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Speaker 1: they were saying about symptoms, And it felt like I

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Speaker 1: had a ratchet strap going on around my chest, and

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Speaker 1: my wife had been really fatigued and tired too, And

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Speaker 1: that initial onset only lasted for a couple of days.

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Speaker 1: Those those symptoms all sort of evaporated as fast as

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Speaker 1: they came on, and then I was just really tired

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Speaker 1: for about two or three weeks. I felt just you know,

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Speaker 1: took like two naps a day, which is very unlike me.

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Speaker 1: What made it better? Because you didn't take any therapeutic drugs? Actually, yeah,

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Speaker 1: my booking agent JL brought me a big old cornucopia

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Speaker 1: basket of like holistic medicines and vitamins and a lot

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Speaker 1: of a lot of you know, detoxifants and stuff. I

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Speaker 1: was just drinking tea, a lot, a lot of water,

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Speaker 1: and plus we live out we're pretty secluded. I probably

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Speaker 1: overshot it on the solution, to be honest, and so

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Speaker 1: just to eating a lot of vegetables and trying to

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Speaker 1: be healthier and going for walks and uh. And then

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Speaker 1: I think it was around March twelfth or thirteenth thousand

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Speaker 1: in hospital and we didn't actually get tested until the first,

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Speaker 1: very very early April, and I was still still detected

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Speaker 1: like positive. Wow result so I must have had a

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Speaker 1: really large viral load or exposure. I guess for it too.

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Speaker 1: I'll stick around that long. I don't know. And do

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Speaker 1: you have any um, like, do you have asthma or

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Speaker 1: any Uh? No, no, allergic to anything. No, my lungs

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Speaker 1: are huge, man, I got like big fat swimmer lungs.

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Speaker 1: So the whole tour, you know, we played nine or

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Speaker 1: ten shows I can't remember, and like something wasn't right.

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Speaker 1: I remember vividly knowing I just couldn't get a real

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Speaker 1: deep inhale on stage. And I've lost like twenty pounds

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Speaker 1: before the tour. I was really making a conscious of

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Speaker 1: it to be healthy, and I was living cleaner. I

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Speaker 1: stopped smoking pot and all that shit, you know, and

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Speaker 1: and just every night I was like, what is it? God,

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Speaker 1: I'm old, Like this is middle age. It's here now.

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Speaker 1: You know something's going on. But I guess it was

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Speaker 1: just slowly metabolizing through my system. But you you essentially

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Speaker 1: beat it with no Western medicine. You're saying, yeah, I'm

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Speaker 1: just healthy. It was, you know, I mean it sucked.

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Speaker 1: I've definitely never woken up in my entire life and

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Speaker 1: said I need to go to the emergency room. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and this was like something's very not right here, and yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then it went away. And then you know, some

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Speaker 1: friends like Prime passed away that was pretty close after.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, man, It's it's so funny to me

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Speaker 1: that you see all the denial and people just falling

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Speaker 1: at fear, moo, hungering or whatever. We were here renting

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Speaker 1: a house on the East coast, and the guy we

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Speaker 1: were renting from he got it, was in the hospital

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Speaker 1: for a while, like the handyman who I would constantly

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Speaker 1: have to ask him to mask up, tell me come

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Speaker 1: over in the lard. We kind of look at me laugh.

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Speaker 1: He was in the hospital for two weeks just recently,

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Speaker 1: so you know he's not laughing now. But it's it's

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Speaker 1: some real shit, man. Absolutely, Man, I'm so glad you're

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Speaker 1: I'm so glad you're over it. It's like I said, now,

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Speaker 1: it's I feel strangely sort of rejuvenated. I haven't felt

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Speaker 1: I'm probably just from being off and having rest for

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Speaker 1: the first time eight years, but I feel pretty great

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Speaker 1: right now. Yeah, tell me about Kentucky. You grew up

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Speaker 1: in Kentucky. What's it like growing up there? And again,

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Speaker 1: I'm really asking how to ignorance. I know very little.

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Speaker 1: In some ways not at all what most people probably think,

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Speaker 1: and in a lot of ways exactly like that. Kentucky's

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Speaker 1: a weird state. Depending on what corner or region you're in,

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Speaker 1: you might as well be in different worlds. I'm originally

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Speaker 1: from southeastern Kentucky or the Appalachian region, so um, you know,

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Speaker 1: we used to be coal mining, strip mining country, bluegrass country.

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Speaker 1: And then my dad had a he was a state trooper,

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Speaker 1: kind of ran the gamut of that career, and I

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Speaker 1: think when when I was young, he was doing some

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Speaker 1: more sketchy kind of work that put a lot of

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Speaker 1: stress on my mom in their marriage when I was

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Speaker 1: a young kid. So I think we ended up moving.

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Speaker 1: He took a transfer and got out of doing that stuff,

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Speaker 1: and we ended it moving up to central Kentucky, eventually

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Speaker 1: settling in a little town, Versailles, the locals called Sales.

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Speaker 1: I remember, you know, it's a good place to grow up.

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Speaker 1: But I do remember always feeling the wanderlust, you know,

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Speaker 1: So I left. I left for boot camp and the Navy.

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Speaker 1: I don't a week and a half, two weeks after

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Speaker 1: I graduated high school, just ready to go and get out,

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Speaker 1: you know, Yeah, what was the music in the house

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Speaker 1: that he grew up in, Like in the house I

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Speaker 1: grew up, and my mom would listen to a lot

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Speaker 1: of motown like Rod Stewart and stuff like that. And

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Speaker 1: then she had she still had her old forty five

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Speaker 1: when she was a teenager. And then my grandmother had

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Speaker 1: she had one of those old you know, the furniture

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Speaker 1: type record players had the built in speakers and he'd

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Speaker 1: flip the list, had to reach down in and my

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Speaker 1: grandmother just had a ton of old soul music and

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Speaker 1: that's what she listened to. So those were probably the

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Speaker 1: first records I was exposed to. And then CCR and

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Speaker 1: I think the first song I learned how to play

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Speaker 1: on guitar was probably Sunshine of Your Love. How old

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Speaker 1: were you then? Probably was second grade? So I got

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Speaker 1: my first guitar around second or third grade. And I

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Speaker 1: remember why, I was like Nickelodeon was really big back then,

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Speaker 1: you know, so I remember I was I watched the

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Speaker 1: Monkeys when I was a little kid on TV. So honestly,

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Speaker 1: those songs I had all those records, those songs which

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Speaker 1: we now know were like Nielsen and Neil Neil Diamond Tunes,

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Speaker 1: so you know, they're getting that melodic chop burned into

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Speaker 1: your brain at a young age. And then an older

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Speaker 1: cousin and also older next to her neighbor. Both of

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Speaker 1: them were teenagers when I was in like i'd say,

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Speaker 1: fifth grade, and they both corrupted me pretty good and proper.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I was exposed to Appetite for Destruction and

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Speaker 1: I don't know Man Hendricks and the whole Zeppelin box

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Speaker 1: that found it all like probably I used to stay

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Speaker 1: way too young, but now, I mean I responded immediately,

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Speaker 1: so I guess it was right on time. You know,

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Speaker 1: when you were a kid and you'd hear Jimmy Hendrix

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Speaker 1: and you'd hear Appetite for Destruction, did it all seemed

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Speaker 1: like it was music from the past? Or was it

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Speaker 1: clear when something was more current and something was from

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Speaker 1: the more distant past. I definitely think it was clear

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Speaker 1: when things were more from a different era or just

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Speaker 1: the way I remember like the sound of it, you know,

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Speaker 1: it just sounded lived in and cooler. And but now,

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Speaker 1: you know, appetite even that sonically to a fourth or

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Speaker 1: fifth grader because at the time MTV was probably playing

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Speaker 1: god knows what Poison and def Leopard videos add nauseum

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Speaker 1: over and over. But I remember vividly seeing that video

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Speaker 1: for Welcome to the Jungle come on because we were

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Speaker 1: living in this apartment one summer and I couldn't go

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Speaker 1: outside a mom and dad worked all day. I had

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Speaker 1: to stay inside, and uh, I was so young, I

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Speaker 1: couldn't really do much. So I was just sitting watch

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Speaker 1: MTV all day and that video came on, man, and

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Speaker 1: it was like you could just feel the danger, you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean. I was just like, oh shit,

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Speaker 1: this is this is something entirely different, like this is real,

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Speaker 1: you know. I remember, I remember that being so clear,

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Speaker 1: like I gotta know everything about this, you know. And

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Speaker 1: and then later on that year, I guess I hadn't

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Speaker 1: really heard the record yet. And we had an older

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Speaker 1: My next door neighbor was this older kid, Michael, and

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Speaker 1: he had a navy blue Chevy Nova, and he'd like

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Speaker 1: used to run away from home all the time, and shit,

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Speaker 1: you know, he's a bad kid, and uh he was.

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Speaker 1: He was basically woodson from from days and confused, and

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Speaker 1: uh he pulled up one day just cranking that record

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Speaker 1: in his car, and I was out. I was outside.

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Speaker 1: I don't even know what I was doing, probably sitting

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Speaker 1: on my button in grass and I heard it. I

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Speaker 1: was just like, what is that man? And he and

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Speaker 1: he was such a dick. He was just like, fuck,

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Speaker 1: you've been kid in the caves, guns and roses man.

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Speaker 1: And he gave me the cassette tape like he gave

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Speaker 1: me the cassette and it still had had the original

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Speaker 1: artwork in the middle with the robot jump in the

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Speaker 1: fence and all that shit and men. I wore it out.

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Speaker 1: My mom found it threw it away because she saw that,

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Speaker 1: she saw the artwork and everything. I think I ended

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Speaker 1: up buying like two more copies that ended up getting trashed.

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Speaker 1: But that that record was a huge, a huge bomb

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Speaker 1: going off for me. And then yeah, Cream Hendricks and

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Speaker 1: then I had a big Clapton phase for a while.

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Speaker 1: I got real into Clapton. I just like reading everything

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Speaker 1: I could find about him, and then that takes you

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Speaker 1: down these holes to you know, guys like Peter Green

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Speaker 1: and all the John Male stuff, which which takes you

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Speaker 1: back to the Chicago and Delta, and it was just

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Speaker 1: this rabbit hole. Man. I was like a weird sixteen

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Speaker 1: year old into a lot of shit that you know,

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Speaker 1: it was probably nerdy, I guess looking back on it.

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Speaker 1: Did you have many experiences of your mom taking away

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Speaker 1: stuff and throwing it away? That record and the other

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Speaker 1: one she pulled, she popped out of the tape deck

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Speaker 1: and tossed out the car window. Once was Stepping Wolf

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Speaker 1: when the Pusher came on, she was just like, no, sir,

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Speaker 1: you know anything talking about pimping and pushing hose and

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Speaker 1: selling drugs was probably nothing your mom. My mom once

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Speaker 1: they're nine year old bumping too. My dad was a

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Speaker 1: steak cop too, and he was probably the biggest supporter

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Speaker 1: of it. He bought my first guitar and what was

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Speaker 1: what was your dad's tasted music like rock and roll? Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he took me. He took me to see Van Halen

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Speaker 1: in like fourth or fifth grades, so it was always,

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Speaker 1: you know, he liked a party. Do you ever go

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Speaker 1: down rabbit holes of different kinds of music that you

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Speaker 1: haven't listened to before? Absolutely? Yeah, I mean I think

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Speaker 1: that's important. One year, one year to Blonde come out,

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Speaker 1: that Frank Ocean record sixteen, maybe when Sailor's got I

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Speaker 1: think it was around the same time A Sailors guy

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Speaker 1: came out, and I was just I wanted to listen

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Speaker 1: to something like so far away from anything that I

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Speaker 1: did or understood. And I heard a song. A friend

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Speaker 1: of mine play was listening to that and heard a

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Speaker 1: song and I was just like, I remember being struck

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Speaker 1: by the production values and the sounds, and I just

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Speaker 1: was like, I have no idea what he's doing or

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Speaker 1: how he made these noises, and that it really fascinated

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Speaker 1: me to just stick my head in something that was

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Speaker 1: so different than the tools that we use, you know.

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Speaker 1: And I listened to that record for about a month straight.

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Speaker 1: Must have been but yeah, a lot of hip hop, weirdly,

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Speaker 1: maybe not. I don't know. One thing I never really

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Speaker 1: got into, I guess was jazz other than the basics.

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Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, I predict you will maybe it's coming.

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Speaker 1: Yeah he'll billy jazz. But let's talk about bluegrass a

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Speaker 1: little bit in general. I know almost nothing about it.

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Speaker 1: Tell me about what do you know about bluegrass? You

285
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Speaker 1: could start from the beginning. Well, okay, I got out

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Speaker 1: of the navy. I know, I know more now, I've

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Speaker 1: forgotten a lot. In my twenties, I was obsessed, like

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Speaker 1: scoured the earth kind of shit. And when I was younger,

289
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Speaker 1: my grandfather I wrote this little letter sent out with

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Speaker 1: the record. He my paternal grandfather, was obsessed with it.

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Speaker 1: It's he thought about, spent his entire later years going

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Speaker 1: to festivals and it's always listened to. Oh to the

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Speaker 1: point it would drive my mom crazy, and he would

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Speaker 1: always trying to push it on me, you know, even

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Speaker 1: like a real young age. But my palette wasn't ready, man,

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Speaker 1: because it's it's very complex music. You know, it's always

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Speaker 1: recorded or would you see people play it live? Mostly

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Speaker 1: field recordings. And then he took me to a festival

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Speaker 1: one year out the horse Park and it was like

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Speaker 1: that was that I do remember vividly feeling like I

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Speaker 1: was watching magic because these guys were like dancing around

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Speaker 1: the mic. It was old school, you know, it's still

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Speaker 1: early eighties. And then in Jackson, where I'm from, every

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Speaker 1: Labor Day they had this a festival in the city

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Speaker 1: called the Honey Festival, and on Friday nights, I think

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Speaker 1: they have rock bands, and on Saturday night it was

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Speaker 1: bluegrass and all the old timers. I mean, dude, it

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Speaker 1: was like something right out of a time where these

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Speaker 1: guys would come down from the Hollers and the Hills,

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Speaker 1: like in their start shirts and overalls and dances this

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Speaker 1: ship and it was like probably the last of that stuff,

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Speaker 1: you know, time capsule kind of thing, but those images

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Speaker 1: are burned into my head and so that was really

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Speaker 1: the early exposure. But then it wasn't until I got

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Speaker 1: out of the military. I'd gotten off some pretty pretty

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Speaker 1: heavy drugs. I was kind of floating pretty hard for

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Speaker 1: about a year and I got home. I was clean.

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Speaker 1: I was just like dealing with all that, like the

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Speaker 1: shame spiral and everything, and like trying to figure out

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Speaker 1: my mom would remarried. Nothing, everything was just uplifted. You

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Speaker 1: went into the military just to escape escape home, but well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: escape home. And also I kind of got in some trouble.

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Speaker 1: I got really lucky, but I got in some trouble

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Speaker 1: my senior year of high school, just doing shit I

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Speaker 1: shouldn't have been. And it was sort of like a

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Speaker 1: wake up call. What was the experience? Your service experience?

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Speaker 1: Like what it was peacetime for starters, And I was

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Speaker 1: stationed overseas, the majority of it in Asia, Southeast Asia,

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Speaker 1: and we'd go a lot of places I would have

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Speaker 1: never seen otherwise. And it turned into some songs later

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Speaker 1: on in life, thankfully. But you know, a lot of

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Speaker 1: a lot of experiences that were eye opening, a lot

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Speaker 1: of expensive experiences that were probably things I could have

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Speaker 1: done without. Things I wish I hadn't seen older dudes

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Speaker 1: I hadn't. I wish I hadn't been exposed to, you know,

336
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Speaker 1: sailors in life. That comes with that, and you just

337
00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:20,240
Speaker 1: hard to wash a lot of that shit off man um.

338
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Speaker 1: But then a lot of a lot of most a

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Speaker 1: lot of drinking and partying, to be honest with you,

340
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Speaker 1: and and uh, a lot of girls. That kind of thing,

341
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Speaker 1: like what you do when you're stuck in this like tyrannical,

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00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:37,480
Speaker 1: oppressive environment with lots of sharp corners and gray paint,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like as an artist, it

344
00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:42,040
Speaker 1: was like the fuck have I done? You know, and

345
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Speaker 1: you're you're stuck. We'd go out to see sometimes like

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Speaker 1: ninety one hundred and eight days, you know, so like

347
00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:51,480
Speaker 1: it's basically prison. I mean, you're basically in prison eating

348
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Speaker 1: better food maybe, I don't know. So I got out

349
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Speaker 1: and I was just ready to I was ready to

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Speaker 1: not be that anymore, and I went a little too

351
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Speaker 1: buck wild. How long were you in for long enough

352
00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:06,240
Speaker 1: about three years. Yeah, And it's like I said, I

353
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:08,159
Speaker 1: just sort of burned it at both ends. And I

354
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Speaker 1: came home and I was really lost, man, I was

355
00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:14,320
Speaker 1: really lost and probably severely depressed, and serotonin levels were

356
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Speaker 1: still finding their way home and that kind of ship.

357
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Speaker 1: And was driving down a row one day and I

358
00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:22,040
Speaker 1: heard it was a Monroe Brothers song, and I want

359
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Speaker 1: to I'm trying to remember what the song was. It

360
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Speaker 1: wasn't something as easy as it was, like a deep cut,

361
00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:29,520
Speaker 1: probably long journey home or something, man, and I had

362
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Speaker 1: to pull the chuck over. I was just like the tears,

363
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:35,520
Speaker 1: just it just it slam me in the chest. But everything,

364
00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:41,439
Speaker 1: like whatever it was, was extremely visceral connection, an emotional

365
00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:45,200
Speaker 1: reaction to that music. And then for the next i'd

366
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Speaker 1: say seven or eight years, I don't give a fuck

367
00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:51,159
Speaker 1: about anything else. Was it in the song itself or

368
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Speaker 1: were you reconnecting to something from childhood by hearing it.

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Speaker 1: It was the inflection of their voices, It was the lyric,

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Speaker 1: the underlying like there I say, religious themes with like

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Speaker 1: pain and lament and sorrow. But mostly man, it was

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Speaker 1: just the voice, the voices and the music and the

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Speaker 1: notes it took me back to like just childhood memories

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Speaker 1: and like funerals and these things that you can't really

375
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Speaker 1: put a finger on, but I knew like this is,

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Speaker 1: this is where I'm from. We'll be right back with

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Speaker 1: more Rick's conversation with Sturgil After a quick break, we're

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Speaker 1: back with Rick Rubin and Sturgil Simpson. Let's talk about

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Speaker 1: the Sailor's album a little bit. It's it's very different

380
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Speaker 1: than what came before. How about how does it happen?

381
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Speaker 1: I mean that one, I think more than any record

382
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Speaker 1: of me I probably heard in my head or in

383
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Speaker 1: terms of the blueprint before we went in what I

384
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Speaker 1: wanted to do and what I wanted to incorporate. I

385
00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:50,680
Speaker 1: was listening to a lot of Marvin Gay, a lot

386
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Speaker 1: of Memphis Elva stuff at the time and wanted to,

387
00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:57,480
Speaker 1: you know, meta modern. Was just me and the three

388
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Speaker 1: other guys in the room. Once we set the mics

389
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Speaker 1: up record, we didn't really move or change anything. It

390
00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:05,520
Speaker 1: was It wasn't so the songs has all kind of

391
00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:07,720
Speaker 1: been carved out live on the road and this three

392
00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:10,600
Speaker 1: month tour prior to us going in and banging that

393
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Speaker 1: record out, and so I knew I didn't want to

394
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Speaker 1: do something that stripped down and raw again for starters.

395
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Speaker 1: And then two I was was my first label record,

396
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Speaker 1: and the only reason I really signed with the label

397
00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:25,359
Speaker 1: was for a larger recording budget. So I was like, well,

398
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Speaker 1: you know, I don't really want to make a ten

399
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Speaker 1: thousand dollar album because that's that's not what we're doing here.

400
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Speaker 1: So and you have that toolbox now available and opened

401
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:35,320
Speaker 1: up to you, and I just kind of went all

402
00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:38,440
Speaker 1: in on it, man, and wanted to make this really

403
00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:42,960
Speaker 1: lush and cinematic sort of soundscape to accompany the story

404
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:45,320
Speaker 1: of the album. And some of it was notes. Some

405
00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:47,679
Speaker 1: of like I told you, man, I had like probably

406
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Speaker 1: four songs, five songs, and then we got in the

407
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Speaker 1: studio and I had little pieces and things that there

408
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:55,679
Speaker 1: was nothing for me to play for the band, so

409
00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:58,439
Speaker 1: they could chart out form and sit there and do

410
00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:00,480
Speaker 1: the things. It was kind of like nobody really knew

411
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:05,680
Speaker 1: what was happening but me too much to Ferg's dismay

412
00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:11,240
Speaker 1: some days, and but it all came together pretty pretty fast,

413
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Speaker 1: I think four four or five days maybe, And so

414
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Speaker 1: you did the basic tracks with the band and then

415
00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:20,280
Speaker 1: all of the orchestration happened after. Yeah, we overdubbed the

416
00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:23,920
Speaker 1: strings and the horns later, but those were in your

417
00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:27,120
Speaker 1: original vision for the songs. Those were always there. Some

418
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,080
Speaker 1: yes and no, but it was I think there was.

419
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Speaker 1: There was definitely a moment once with that first three

420
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Speaker 1: days of tracking, and I just looked at furg and

421
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Speaker 1: I was like, we gotta do a cox this ship. Man.

422
00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:39,040
Speaker 1: I was like, we gotta get we gotta get strings.

423
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Speaker 1: I want to hear horns. He was. He just kind

424
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Speaker 1: of set there, smoker a cigarette. He's like yeah, and

425
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Speaker 1: then you know, so we went up to New York

426
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Speaker 1: for a couple of days and recorded the Dap Kings

427
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:52,280
Speaker 1: and the and the String Quartet there at the Atlantic Studios. Yeah,

428
00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:54,199
Speaker 1: and then that's when I finally heard it, you know

429
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:55,879
Speaker 1: what I mean. I was just like, Okay, there it is.

430
00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,480
Speaker 1: It's such a surprise coming from the first two records.

431
00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:03,000
Speaker 1: You know, it's like it's a total departure, but for me,

432
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:06,560
Speaker 1: not so much. I felt like getting away from other

433
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:10,640
Speaker 1: influences or maybe agendas. I was finally able to make

434
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:13,840
Speaker 1: the music I'd actually been influenced by and listening to

435
00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:16,199
Speaker 1: as a kid growing up, which was more soul and

436
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:19,480
Speaker 1: rock and roll and things more so than like Hank

437
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:23,280
Speaker 1: Junior or Waylon Jennings, you know, whereas you moved to

438
00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:25,399
Speaker 1: Nashville and I just had all these country songs, and

439
00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:28,080
Speaker 1: I guess just not norm where to start. Well, this

440
00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:29,720
Speaker 1: is what you do now, You make like these hard

441
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,919
Speaker 1: country records. And I love that music too, but I

442
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,159
Speaker 1: don't really hear a lot of my voice, especially on

443
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:37,960
Speaker 1: that first one, met a modern more so because like

444
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:39,639
Speaker 1: I said, we worked it out on the road and

445
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:43,240
Speaker 1: Dave did a good job on the console and Mike

446
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,920
Speaker 1: choices and stuff like that. But Sailor's Guide was honestly

447
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:50,720
Speaker 1: for me, I guess stretching my legs a little bit

448
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,160
Speaker 1: more for the first time and talk about the new

449
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:58,320
Speaker 1: one a little bit. The grass was there was zero

450
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:02,159
Speaker 1: planning on that one. That was definitely okay. Well, I've

451
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:04,240
Speaker 1: always wanted to make a bluegrass record. Now I have

452
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:06,440
Speaker 1: the time. I'm not going on a tour anytime in

453
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:10,800
Speaker 1: the next two or three years. So I was feeling better.

454
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:13,879
Speaker 1: I think I was mostly just excited that I was

455
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:17,440
Speaker 1: finally feeling good. By June early June, and I called

456
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:19,680
Speaker 1: furg up and I was like, man, I've always wanted

457
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:22,240
Speaker 1: to do this. We did this big fundraiser thing online

458
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:25,440
Speaker 1: because I had this We've been on Instagram for maybe

459
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:28,200
Speaker 1: a month or two, and then just everything hit the fan.

460
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,399
Speaker 1: We had incorporated some charity stuff into the tour with

461
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 1: the ticket sales, and I was just trying to figure

462
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,360
Speaker 1: out a way to continue that and actually hold through

463
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:38,919
Speaker 1: on that promise. So and then it turned in, you know,

464
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:42,360
Speaker 1: there's a big tornado in Nashville and all the COVID shit,

465
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:43,960
Speaker 1: and we just we were like, well, we could raise

466
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,160
Speaker 1: some money from music cares because everybody's out of work now,

467
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:49,400
Speaker 1: and the fans totally blew it out of the water. Man,

468
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 1: I don't know what I expected all and all, we

469
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,200
Speaker 1: raised about a half million dollars a thing, so amazing.

470
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:57,800
Speaker 1: I was just like, well, I gotta put a record

471
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,080
Speaker 1: out now, because I promised him I would. So I

472
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,439
Speaker 1: also knew I was about to have at least the

473
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 1: rest of this year off. Yeah, and I knew I

474
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:10,399
Speaker 1: wanted to spend a lot of time folks and on

475
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 1: my kids and home things that had sort of slipped

476
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 1: through the cracks because of the work. And I didn't

477
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 1: want to sit around the next six months thinking about

478
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 1: what that next thing would be. So I just said,

479
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 1: fuck it, let's just do the next thing now and

480
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 1: get it in the can. And then it was I'm

481
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:27,200
Speaker 1: glad I did it because now I've just been fishing

482
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 1: and changing diapers for the last couple of months while

483
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 1: we set up putting this thing out. It's great, though,

484
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:37,679
Speaker 1: I really love it. Had you ever looked at the

485
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 1: songs through the filter of bluegrass before making the record, well,

486
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:43,960
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, they were all written on a D

487
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 1: twenty eight, probably sung on played a little too fast,

488
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 1: just because that's where my natural I have a tendency

489
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 1: to push things a little bit ahead, like most blue

490
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,960
Speaker 1: grass pickers, and so when you make country records, you

491
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 1: basically just slow everything down. I could put some form

492
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 1: changes here and there to make it stretch out and phrases,

493
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 1: but they were all I mean, no bullshit, man. I'd

494
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,959
Speaker 1: say eighty percent of them were written as more as

495
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 1: bluegrass songs than anything. So so these renditions of the

496
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,480
Speaker 1: songs are closer to how they were originally written, yeah,

497
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,560
Speaker 1: before they became country. They're written closer to who I

498
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:23,360
Speaker 1: am more naturally, that's my voice and my instrument and

499
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,359
Speaker 1: like I saved, like if I had to express myself

500
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 1: in a medium as truly as possible, this would be it. Yeah,

501
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:32,680
Speaker 1: It's one of the things that came away from listening

502
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 1: to it was the lyrics. Now, even though I've heard

503
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 1: these songs before, there's something about hearing lyrics when there's

504
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:46,439
Speaker 1: not drumming going on that they hit me in a

505
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 1: different way. You understand them in a different way. Generals,

506
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 1: it feels like this this album really is the storytelling

507
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 1: version of the story of these songs, where it's really

508
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:05,120
Speaker 1: about the lyrics. Thanks man. It's always been something I've

509
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:07,360
Speaker 1: never said anything about it, but it has always sort

510
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,400
Speaker 1: of bothered me that the last six or seven years,

511
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:12,399
Speaker 1: I put these records out and I'm writing all the songs,

512
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,640
Speaker 1: and anybody talks about is my voice or the production

513
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 1: or the instruments, But it's like they're missing the story. Yeah,

514
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 1: and even some of the fans aren't really listening, or

515
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:24,879
Speaker 1: at least some of the fans I used to have,

516
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 1: because they've kind of fallen off now that they figured

517
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 1: out more who I am. So it's been it's all

518
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 1: just learning and growth, I think. But finally hearing these

519
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,200
Speaker 1: songs the way they were probably always intended to is

520
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:41,199
Speaker 1: very gratifying for me. Is it is it acceptable to

521
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 1: do songs that are not in the cannon in the

522
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 1: bluegrass style? I don't. I think anything is acceptable if

523
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,400
Speaker 1: you mean, I'm just asking the bluegrass community. I don't

524
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 1: know anything about bluegrass. I mean, I was told like

525
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,399
Speaker 1: it was unacceptable to put horns on a country record,

526
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,159
Speaker 1: even though I grew up in my grandfather's car here

527
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:01,160
Speaker 1: and merl Agger do it, So I don't. I don't know, man.

528
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:03,920
Speaker 1: I guess it depends who you ask, based on their

529
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,440
Speaker 1: their criteria of what fits their identity that week. I

530
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 1: don't know. I made what I thought to be a

531
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 1: true bluegrass record with some songs that are probably country

532
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 1: songs and also bluegrass songs. So yeah, I feel like

533
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 1: it's got potential to turn more people onto bluegrass who

534
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:26,680
Speaker 1: might not already be into it. I feel like that's

535
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 1: the real potential that's held in this world. That's the goal.

536
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 1: I mean, I've always been trying to turn people on.

537
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,440
Speaker 1: We've went with earlier stuff, maybe to country music that

538
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 1: wouldn't necessarily be into it, or to change their opinions

539
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 1: of what it could be, and then it's been all

540
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 1: this is weird to say, but having that word, that

541
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 1: c word attached to my name as an artist has

542
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:55,119
Speaker 1: probably been more of a detriment to me in my

543
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 1: career in terms of reaching my actual fan base than anything,

544
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 1: because so many people well that don't listen to country music,

545
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 1: they only know it by what they've been told the

546
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:07,919
Speaker 1: last twenty five years. To believe it is, you know,

547
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 1: from watching awards shows on TV and stuff, or you know,

548
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 1: I have no desire to sit here and talk shit

549
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 1: about any of that crap but anymore. But it just

550
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 1: is what it is, you know. Um So then you

551
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 1: have to sort of point out, oh, we can also

552
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 1: be this, you know. I don't know if artists would

553
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 1: ever really give any of this stuff thought if they

554
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 1: didn't have to sit down and answer questions when it

555
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 1: was time to foot records about it. You know. I

556
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 1: think sometimes it's interesting to think about though, Like I

557
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: feel like we find clarity through through discussion if we

558
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 1: think about things who wouldn't normally think about. And I

559
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 1: don't know, I learned a lot through the conversations, you know. Well,

560
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 1: you know, man, I'll tell you what, starting in this

561
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 1: business at thirty five thirty six really actually taking a

562
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 1: go at it trying to be a pro musician. I

563
00:28:56,040 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 1: was damn near middle aged, unlike i'd say ninety five

564
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 1: or even more percent of the people that start out

565
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 1: at eighteen or nineteen, and this is all they ever know,

566
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 1: you know. And I was so held bent at first

567
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 1: on like I finally found something in my life to

568
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 1: be ambitious about because we had a child on the way,

569
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 1: and I knew, like, I have to make this work,

570
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 1: it has to happen, it has to succeed. I gotta

571
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 1: take care of my family. I want to have something

572
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 1: I can look back on and know that like I

573
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 1: didn't compromise whatsoever, and this is like, I did this

574
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 1: the right way and it was very important to me

575
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 1: and it still is. And then somewhere along the lines,

576
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 1: you know, you get on the train and it's hard.

577
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 1: I've always said, it's hard to tell how fast the

578
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 1: train's going when you're on it. And next thing you know,

579
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 1: you think, well, like you get in, you get sucked

580
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 1: in or like manipulated in the music industry has a

581
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 1: really scientifically applied methodology about making artists feel like if

582
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 1: they don't keep treading water, they're gonna drown because everybody's

583
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 1: got to keep generating their paychecks, you know what I mean.

584
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 1: And if something's working, you want to keep working. So

585
00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:59,239
Speaker 1: you just keep throwing fuel on the fire. And then

586
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 1: next thing you know, you weigh up and you just

587
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 1: completely burnt out, and you're like, how did this happen?

588
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 1: Who was taking care of me to keep this from happening?

589
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 1: And I realized that nobody was putting more pressure on

590
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 1: me than I was. And I tell you two things again,

591
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 1: there was two very distinct incidences that were wake up

592
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 1: calls from me and very touchdown reminders. The first one

593
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 1: was when I went to Merle Haggard's house for the

594
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 1: very first time ever, and he I think Merle only

595
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 1: won one Grammy in his career. And when you walked

596
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 1: into the house, it was sitting on the floor used

597
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 1: as a doorstopper to hold the screen door open, just

598
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 1: scratched and be all to hell, And I was like,

599
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 1: got it, you know what I mean? Yeah? And the

600
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 1: second one was when Ferd when we came out to

601
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 1: La to go to the awards, and when he took

602
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 1: you came, he brought me to visit and meet you

603
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,719
Speaker 1: for the first time. And I can't Yeah, we were

604
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 1: hanging out. We were there in the room that you're

605
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 1: sitting in right now, and he asked you you got

606
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 1: any records up for anything this year, Rick, And you said,

607
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 1: I don't know, and I knew you weren't bullshitting, and

608
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 1: I was like, that's it. I mean, that's it. Just

609
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 1: just make art. Fuck the rest, you know. And and

610
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 1: I've been trying to like commit and live in that

611
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 1: headspace ever since, man, and just just block out all

612
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 1: the trivial nous and the hedge of money. Yea of

613
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 1: the system that makes us think we all have to

614
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 1: end up on these lists every year, like standing at

615
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 1: a podium giving little speeches because it doesn't have shit

616
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: to do with anything about like connecting with human beings

617
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 1: and making music. Yeah, there's so many distractions that can

618
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 1: really get in the way and and putting the blinders

619
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 1: on and focusing on making something that you love. That's

620
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 1: all it's about. If you love it, it doesn't matter

621
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 1: if anyone else likes it. And if you of it,

622
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:02,959
Speaker 1: there's a better chance someone else might like it because

623
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 1: at least one person cares about it. You yeah, or

624
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 1: it wasn't for that person, which is fine, but there's

625
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 1: two or three other people out there that maybe everything

626
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 1: I've done before wasn't for them, but this thing save

627
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 1: their fucking life, you know, I don't know. It's hard

628
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 1: to describe. How much do you take into consideration the

629
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 1: audience in the making process when you're writing and when

630
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 1: you're recording. Is it okay to say zero? Absolutely, that's

631
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 1: the right answer. In the studio, I'm not thinking about

632
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 1: how's this going to translate live? That's all. That's like

633
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 1: a problem to worry about later, you know. It's really

634
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:42,960
Speaker 1: just it feel right? Does it sound right? Could this

635
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 1: be better? Or is this gross enough? I don't know,

636
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 1: Like these are thoughts that I have. More so, there

637
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 1: are people are gonna like this. I think if you

638
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 1: start thinking like that, you're gonna make some shitty records,

639
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 1: for sure. Absolutely, That's that's why I asked a question.

640
00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 1: And so and there are so many artists who really

641
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 1: do pollute their process thinking about the audience, and it

642
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 1: really just undermines the whole, the whole enterpress. And you

643
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 1: can hear that people just keep making the same records

644
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:11,760
Speaker 1: over and over. Then what are you What are you

645
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 1: really chasing or serving? I guess, But well, the bluegrass thing. Honestly,

646
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 1: this probably came more of That's what I was listening

647
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 1: to me before we cut this. I was listening I

648
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 1: love Van Morrison. Him and Marvin are probably my two

649
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 1: favorite singers, and and I think I love Van Morrison

650
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 1: even more because a lot of times it's hard for

651
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 1: me to understand what he's saying. And that's a complaint

652
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 1: that I get about my voice a lot. It's like

653
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:41,479
Speaker 1: the annunciation becomes far less important than the emotion behind

654
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 1: the note, you know what I mean, Like you can

655
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 1: just feel him squeezing and it's coming from all these

656
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 1: different places as opposed to just like I am articulating now,

657
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. But listening to a lot

658
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 1: of his stuff, I feel like with the bluegrass record,

659
00:33:56,440 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 1: I feel more in tune to that kind kind of

660
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 1: thing right now, maybe more of like a hillbilly astral

661
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 1: week sort of. That would be like my dream record

662
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:09,439
Speaker 1: to make. Sounds pretty good, It's what I'd like to hear. Yeah, man,

663
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 1: It's it's weird because I was one on social media

664
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 1: at all until this year, and I you know, I

665
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 1: don't want to be like some definitely have no desire

666
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 1: in like hiding behind a public persona or some crafted

667
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 1: image to sell records. So I don't know how to.

668
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 1: Maybe it's a detrimental at times, So I do engage

669
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 1: with people even though people say not to. I mean,

670
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 1: the fans are coming, they want to connect and know you,

671
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:40,400
Speaker 1: and I've realized that that platform is invaluable in the

672
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 1: case you ever really wanted to represent yourself, as opposed

673
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 1: to having go through the filter of the press or

674
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,840
Speaker 1: you know, a press release and hope that the narrative

675
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,280
Speaker 1: is what you intended it to be, where as opposed

676
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 1: now like I could just I got a mic and

677
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:55,399
Speaker 1: a light in a computer. You're gonna line and say

678
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 1: whatever I want. However I want to say it and

679
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,879
Speaker 1: it can't be twisted. So I think I'll always keep

680
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 1: it for that if no other reason. But also like

681
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:07,280
Speaker 1: just seeing the love from people, man, and the really

682
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 1: seeing the difference that music makes in people's lives, especially

683
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 1: through shit like what's happening right now. It's been really

684
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:18,880
Speaker 1: motivating for me in a way, and sometimes the haters

685
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 1: are the funniest part. Like you know, if you read

686
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,720
Speaker 1: that shit after a while, it truly doesn't mean anything anymore,

687
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 1: and it's it almost. I told my wife like this summer,

688
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 1: I would get on there and blast them back for

689
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:33,280
Speaker 1: like ten minutes fifteen minutes every day with my coffee.

690
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 1: And I was told HER's like, it's kind of like

691
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:36,719
Speaker 1: my yoga now, Like I do that and then I

692
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:38,400
Speaker 1: don't look at it. I can go walk out in

693
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:40,360
Speaker 1: the woods and I just feel amazing, you know, so

694
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 1: and eventually they go away. It's so funny also the

695
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 1: social dynamic of it all, because if life isn't complex enough,

696
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 1: it just fascinates me. Something. Last week she pointed out that,

697
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 1: like I was, the record was number one on iTunes.

698
00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 1: My wife told me that. She was like, yeah, it's

699
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 1: it's between you and Luna. This this a pop band.

700
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:02,719
Speaker 1: I was like, that's insane, you know, it's like the

701
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 1: bluegrass record and a pop record. And I made a

702
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 1: post about the absurdity that, and of course there was

703
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 1: like you can't control that. It's like you've seen Ghostbusters too. No, okay,

704
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:17,279
Speaker 1: I'll spare you anyway. There's a river of slime and

705
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:19,840
Speaker 1: when you talk me into it, it bubbles up, and

706
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:22,359
Speaker 1: I think, well, that's like that's the Internet, you know,

707
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 1: And of course, like some some slime bubbles started popping up,

708
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 1: and it was teetering in some cases towards some some xenophobia,

709
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 1: and I was just like, oh shit, like what did

710
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:35,840
Speaker 1: I What did I do? You know, I feels I

711
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 1: feel responsible. You can't control you. You create this this

712
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:42,920
Speaker 1: ripple and then it turns into this other thing and

713
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 1: it's out of your hands. So then all the all

714
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 1: the lunar fans started coming at me on Twitter, man like.

715
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 1: It was like, holy shit, this is amazing to watch

716
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 1: in a way. Then I listened to the record and

717
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:55,319
Speaker 1: I was like, man, I kind of dig lima, this

718
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:58,919
Speaker 1: is actually pretty bumping. So I just said like, look, guys,

719
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:01,799
Speaker 1: you need to motivate. You know, the girls deserve they

720
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:03,759
Speaker 1: deserve more love and respect, and like if you want

721
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 1: them at number one, you need to get off your

722
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:07,839
Speaker 1: ass and do the work. You know. Yeah, it's like

723
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:10,920
Speaker 1: where's my T shirt? I'm here for it. Orbit all

724
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 1: the way and it turned into a really beautiful thing

725
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 1: in the end. We'll be right back with Sturgill Simpson

726
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 1: in just a moment. We're back with the rest of

727
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 1: Rick's conversation with Sturgill Simpson. You said, when you came

728
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 1: back from the Navy, you were depressed. How would you

729
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,479
Speaker 1: say your moods tend to run in general? Like what's

730
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 1: your Oh, brou I'm a geminium, pretty mercurial. Uh I can.

731
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 1: I can. I can either be the nicest, most giving,

732
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,399
Speaker 1: kindest human being on the planet or like I can

733
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:49,760
Speaker 1: definitely I'm aware, Like especially in the zone if I'm working,

734
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 1: is it like that you're focused to the point of

735
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:58,320
Speaker 1: where niceties? No, man, it's environmental. I real to multiple's childhood,

736
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 1: there's some trauma there and then and between between, Like

737
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:05,760
Speaker 1: just experienced military and then working railroad. I just wasn't.

738
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 1: I was never in these nurturing environments, you know. I

739
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:09,719
Speaker 1: mean I was always in like shit needs to be

740
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:12,239
Speaker 1: done now world, and I don't have time for your

741
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:16,759
Speaker 1: fucking feelings. So coming into this world at thirty five

742
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,839
Speaker 1: and learning like, oh these are artists and sensitive feeling

743
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:21,719
Speaker 1: like I'm also a very sensitive dude. You know, I'm

744
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:25,399
Speaker 1: very emotional dude, And uh, We're all vulnerable. We all

745
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 1: have like giant egos and the insecurity that comes with that,

746
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 1: and learning how to be a better leader or just

747
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 1: to empathize with people who although you need them to

748
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:41,719
Speaker 1: do a job, like they also have lives outside of that,

749
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:45,840
Speaker 1: and even people that have worked for me, like I

750
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 1: have very clear expectations, you know, especially when you're paying

751
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:55,280
Speaker 1: people money, and not just musicians, Like I've lost friends

752
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:58,360
Speaker 1: and relationships around me just from like I am not

753
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 1: happy with what you're doing and these my expectations, and

754
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 1: then people start crying in the meeting and all of

755
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 1: a sudden like okay, well, I guess I can't verbalize

756
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:11,239
Speaker 1: those things like that anymore. And these have been very

757
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 1: very important lessons for me, like to know, everything is

758
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 1: not a train that's forty five minutes late, but it's

759
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:23,319
Speaker 1: it's always circumstantial. It's not just you wake up in

760
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 1: a bad mood one day and na, man, I probably

761
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 1: got some some some shit going you know. I probably

762
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 1: got me and Kanye got the same birthday. I'm just

763
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:35,839
Speaker 1: gonna leave it at that, you know. But all of that,

764
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 1: with children and family and root the last four years

765
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:42,880
Speaker 1: is I'm feeling I had some I had some stuff

766
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:46,359
Speaker 1: going on. I'll just be really honest, without teetering up

767
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:49,440
Speaker 1: to like insurance policy, red flags and ships twenty seventeen

768
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 1: and twenty eighteen, I got pretty dark. I don't know why.

769
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 1: I think I just was out there too long. I

770
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 1: was drifting too hard, and things got slippery and I

771
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:02,839
Speaker 1: fell back into some some ugly shit, especially on the road.

772
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:05,360
Speaker 1: And you know, you spend too much time alone in

773
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:10,320
Speaker 1: hotel rooms, man, and sometimes that translates into more escape

774
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:12,799
Speaker 1: and freedom on stage, and it's not necessarily a good thing.

775
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 1: But and then I woke up to it and just decided,

776
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:20,800
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm done, that it's never never happening again.

777
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:24,399
Speaker 1: And ever since then, it's just been like focusing on

778
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:28,320
Speaker 1: trying to be a better husband and the best father

779
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:34,000
Speaker 1: I can be, and not wasting this opportunity that I've

780
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 1: been given. Was just to make art that will be

781
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 1: here long after I'm gone and affect people that I'll

782
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 1: never even know or meet, And like, when you really

783
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 1: weigh the gravity of that, it's an immense responsibility. Absolutely.

784
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:52,120
Speaker 1: I think the only people who I've ever met who've

785
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:57,440
Speaker 1: become successful musicians starting in their thirties are you and

786
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:01,600
Speaker 1: Bill Withers. I think you're the only you. I was

787
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 1: just talking the other night on a zoom called Donald

788
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:08,879
Speaker 1: Glover about some other things, and he said the same

789
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:11,399
Speaker 1: thing his manager, Fan told me that once two years ago,

790
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 1: and I watched that documentary and I love Bill Wither's music,

791
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:17,880
Speaker 1: but I didn't really ever know that much about his life,

792
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:20,879
Speaker 1: and it was kind of I was taking it back

793
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 1: some of the similarities, especially in our life before music.

794
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 1: He was in the Navy. I think he was from

795
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:28,920
Speaker 1: a West Virginia coltown. Hated the industry side of the business,

796
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:31,759
Speaker 1: the fickleness and the manipulation of it all was I

797
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 1: was just like, whoa man? And then Donald, Yeah, Donald,

798
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 1: we were just talking about the other night. And Bill also,

799
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:40,560
Speaker 1: I don't know he. I loved the interviews I have

800
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 1: read that he gave Since then, it I feel like

801
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:48,240
Speaker 1: I understood and know that guy just how he handles

802
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:52,319
Speaker 1: those situations and those types of questions, and there's not

803
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 1: a lot of fool suffering, I guess. Yeah. One of

804
00:41:57,080 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 1: the things that was really interesting him out him as

805
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 1: well is that his music is put in a box

806
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:08,719
Speaker 1: because of the genre that he came from, as you know,

807
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:13,279
Speaker 1: urban music really because he's black yea. But he has

808
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:16,359
Speaker 1: more in common with Bob Dylan than he does with

809
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 1: most R and B. You know, he's really a singer songwright.

810
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:25,560
Speaker 1: He's a folk song folk folk song right basically with

811
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:30,919
Speaker 1: incredible feel incredible. Do you think yourself more as a

812
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:35,800
Speaker 1: guitar player, songwriter, singer, Like does the music come first?

813
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 1: Or is it what you're saying? It just depends. Man.

814
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:42,799
Speaker 1: I've never made a record the same way twice, and

815
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:44,839
Speaker 1: that wasn't intentional. It's just the way it worked out.

816
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:47,480
Speaker 1: Like the way we approached Sound of Fury wasn't anything

817
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 1: like Sailor's Guide or Metal Modern and cut and Grass

818
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 1: was the easiest thing I've ever done, the fastest thing.

819
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 1: But I mean, I played guitar every day I got

820
00:42:57,520 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 1: I got a fifty four strap downstairs. That's like the

821
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:02,760
Speaker 1: first hour of my day every morning. But the songs,

822
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 1: if I'm like, if you're asking, like where do the

823
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:06,520
Speaker 1: songs come from? Usually a melody or like me just

824
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 1: play All my songs are written on acoustic guitars, and

825
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 1: then I come up a little risks and things around

826
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:14,440
Speaker 1: them later. But it's always like a melody singing. Mostly

827
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 1: it comes from it here, and usually the melody comes

828
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:20,239
Speaker 1: before the words. Usually a line will start things and

829
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 1: then the rest comes generally pretty quick. I'm not one

830
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:24,719
Speaker 1: of those guys that like wakes up every day and

831
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:27,479
Speaker 1: says I'm gonna write for three hours and like trying

832
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:30,759
Speaker 1: to craft like a creative college essay or some shit.

833
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:32,600
Speaker 1: It really like, if it takes me more than forty

834
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:35,080
Speaker 1: minutes to write a song, it's probably not very good song.

835
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:38,920
Speaker 1: Do you write a lot of songs? It goes in phases.

836
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:44,279
Speaker 1: I'm pretty lazy. But when I sit down and do it, yeah,

837
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 1: I'll write like five or six in a week usually,

838
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 1: But no, I don't sit down every day and be like,

839
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:53,200
Speaker 1: I'm a just a blue song writer. And God bless

840
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 1: people that can do that. It's just not for me.

841
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 1: Do you collect lines like yeah, over the course of

842
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 1: your life, if you over hear a phrase or or

843
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 1: an idea for a song, Yeah, a lot of a

844
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 1: lot of scribbled napkins, a lot of like notes on

845
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:09,560
Speaker 1: your phone, where like you'll write a line and then

846
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:12,239
Speaker 1: six months later that ends up being the first thing

847
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 1: in a chorus or something, or I hear somebody's A

848
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:18,439
Speaker 1: lot of songs come from hearing things, just observation. You'll

849
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:21,560
Speaker 1: hear people talking or pick something up and it's underlying

850
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 1: meanings or turning things that weren't meant to be metaphors

851
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:28,319
Speaker 1: into them. Just play on words kind of stuff fascinates

852
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:30,320
Speaker 1: me more or anything. I guess have you ever written

853
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 1: a song without having an instrument in your hand? Like?

854
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 1: Has it ever come? For sure? At work? Like work,

855
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:38,759
Speaker 1: I find I don't have a job anymore, but when

856
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,120
Speaker 1: I worked at the railroad or when I was in

857
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:45,400
Speaker 1: the navy, just like purpose and daily monotonous purpose, like

858
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of songs and music and

859
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 1: melody can come out of that, man Like Yeah, you know,

860
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:53,439
Speaker 1: without without being conscious of a thing. Yeah, a lot

861
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:55,400
Speaker 1: of music comes to me like that when I'm not

862
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:58,880
Speaker 1: sitting down to write music. I wrote Turtles in the shower,

863
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 1: you know, pretty much that whole entire first two verses

864
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 1: just like came to me in a shower one morning,

865
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 1: and I literally almost killed myself getting out of the

866
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 1: shower to write it all down. What was it like

867
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:14,319
Speaker 1: working for the railroad? Actually I loved it, man? What

868
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:16,759
Speaker 1: was the job? What was your job? I started as

869
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:19,920
Speaker 1: a switchman on a switching yard, as like at this

870
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 1: intermodal opera, the Union Pacific Yard, and then you kind

871
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:25,360
Speaker 1: of go through you work up like things that engineer

872
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:27,920
Speaker 1: would drive the trains. Our main job. It was like

873
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:31,439
Speaker 1: a main artery center for the entire western region United States.

874
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:34,840
Speaker 1: We'd have trains coming literally an X from all corners

875
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:36,480
Speaker 1: of the United States. They pull in and we'd have

876
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:39,479
Speaker 1: to tear them apart, put other cars on them, slough

877
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:41,760
Speaker 1: them off, build other trains, and then get them crewed

878
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 1: and out the gate on time and that kind of thing.

879
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:46,279
Speaker 1: So it was like heavy, dude shit. You know. It

880
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 1: definitely saw train rex and you know, big big boy

881
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:53,239
Speaker 1: pants type stuff. And I ended up. I became a

882
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:55,160
Speaker 1: yardmaster for a while, which is like you're in this

883
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 1: pickup truck with eighteen radios and you're kind of coordinating

884
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:00,759
Speaker 1: all the movements of everything. And then they had a

885
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:05,240
Speaker 1: nighttime assistant manager position come open, and I decided more money,

886
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:09,200
Speaker 1: let's do it. Did that, and then I just by chance,

887
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:13,759
Speaker 1: about a year later, the main operations manager took a

888
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 1: transfer and they offered me. They offered me the office

889
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 1: and like running the operations of the yard, and I

890
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 1: took it. And that's where I fucked up, or i'd

891
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:27,320
Speaker 1: probably still be there. I just you know, with the

892
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:30,480
Speaker 1: conference calls and all that gets literally screamed at by

893
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:32,439
Speaker 1: dudes I'll never meet in my life. Because the train

894
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:35,959
Speaker 1: came in two minutes late and left three minutes early

895
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 1: instead of picking up an hour, you know, and I

896
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:44,240
Speaker 1: think I hit vaporlock in a way just like, wow,

897
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 1: this is not this is not who I am. So

898
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:48,279
Speaker 1: I started playing or writing for the first time in

899
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:52,840
Speaker 1: about four years at night, and my wife, we weren't

900
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:54,960
Speaker 1: married at the time, and she was just like, she

901
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:57,239
Speaker 1: just set me down one night, you know, because she's like, look,

902
00:46:57,280 --> 00:46:59,719
Speaker 1: I know your miserables is creating tension with you and me.

903
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:04,279
Speaker 1: This is what you should be doing, whether anything comes

904
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:07,560
Speaker 1: up or not. This is who you are, you know. Yeah, beautiful,

905
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 1: And that was it, and we I think two three

906
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:13,960
Speaker 1: months later we had sold everything we couldn't fit in

907
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:19,760
Speaker 1: the Bronco and drove Nashville Wow two into two thousand

908
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:22,960
Speaker 1: ten a blue. And it's interesting if it wasn't for

909
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 1: that change in jobs, like you say, like you you

910
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 1: worked your way up the ladder at the point of

911
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 1: where it didn't suit you anymore, and luckily we get

912
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 1: we get your music now. Yeah, I mean, before I

913
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:37,279
Speaker 1: took the management gig man, I was out on the

914
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:39,439
Speaker 1: yard like twelve hours a day, and it was good.

915
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:41,879
Speaker 1: We'd work three days, have three days off, work four,

916
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:45,719
Speaker 1: have four off. You know, Salt Lake City's beautiful. Man,

917
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:48,000
Speaker 1: it's kind of a well kept secret. The yard was

918
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:50,320
Speaker 1: out in the west part of the valley, in the desert,

919
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:53,560
Speaker 1: so like my office was looking at the Okrah Mountain

920
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:55,800
Speaker 1: Range and over here is the western face of the Rockies,

921
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 1: and there's three hundred days of sunshine, and uh, I

922
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 1: very well possibly might still be there if all of

923
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:06,400
Speaker 1: that hadn't gone the way it did, which is a

924
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:11,200
Speaker 1: strange thing to think about. Yeah, it's amazing how so

925
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 1: much of this is out of our control, you know. Yeah,

926
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:18,960
Speaker 1: control is an interesting concept. Letting go of that I

927
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:22,560
Speaker 1: think has been the greatest lesson for me. But also

928
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:25,600
Speaker 1: that job taught me a lot that most musicians probably

929
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:29,120
Speaker 1: don't know, like logistics and overhead and keeping numbers in

930
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:31,480
Speaker 1: the blacks. So like, you know, even the people around me.

931
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 1: I keep a pretty tight grip on my business. And

932
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:38,359
Speaker 1: I'm thankful for that because I see, I see how

933
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:39,920
Speaker 1: easy it would be for a lot of artists just

934
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:42,840
Speaker 1: be copacetic and complacent and then you wake up and

935
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:45,640
Speaker 1: you like, why am I broke? You know? So that

936
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:48,799
Speaker 1: would be that's something in terms of dealing with the

937
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:51,840
Speaker 1: mechanics and especially the record labels and then I self

938
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:55,200
Speaker 1: manage myself for about three years, so I learned more

939
00:48:55,239 --> 00:48:58,000
Speaker 1: about the business than I probably want to know. Just

940
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:00,480
Speaker 1: out of sheer necessity. I would sit on the lawyers

941
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:02,760
Speaker 1: that make them explain things to me and like really

942
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 1: the back channels of how it all unfortunately works. So

943
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 1: and that's been good, and it's terms of like working

944
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:12,719
Speaker 1: with my friends, people like Tyler and Margot, I've been

945
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:16,319
Speaker 1: able to hopefully give them some pretty valuable advice to

946
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:18,440
Speaker 1: keep them from making even some of the mistakes that

947
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:21,239
Speaker 1: I made, knowing what I know, you know, and I

948
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:24,080
Speaker 1: think it's just finding a new path and what is

949
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:28,359
Speaker 1: ultimately a wild, wild West again, and there's a real

950
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 1: opportunity for artists to put a lot of the power

951
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 1: back in their own hands. Yeah, any recommendations you have

952
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 1: for artists in general, don't sign anything. There's no such

953
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:41,440
Speaker 1: thing as a good record deal, even if you've got

954
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:45,719
Speaker 1: a great one, it's it's essentially a bad loan from

955
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:47,680
Speaker 1: a really shitty bank. And in this day and age,

956
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:49,920
Speaker 1: if you've got work ethic and hustle and you're not

957
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:52,399
Speaker 1: afraid to go out and do the laps, and by

958
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:54,120
Speaker 1: that I mean go out and build a fan base

959
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:56,239
Speaker 1: as opposed to go onto an industry town and waiting

960
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:57,840
Speaker 1: for a bunch of suits to make it happen for you,

961
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:00,600
Speaker 1: because that ain't gonna happen. They're not taking game anymore.

962
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:03,680
Speaker 1: And if that does happen, I guess those are the

963
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:05,359
Speaker 1: people that like wake up and don't know how hard

964
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 1: they just got fleeced a year later. But if you

965
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 1: want to play music, do what musicians do and go

966
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:13,640
Speaker 1: play music. You know. That's that's what I did, and

967
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:15,360
Speaker 1: that's the only reason I'm sitting you're talking to you

968
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:20,640
Speaker 1: right now. Yeh, make good music, play good shows, wash rents. Repeat.

969
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:23,359
Speaker 1: My wife, we're okay. But like she told me one

970
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:25,360
Speaker 1: time and I realized she's a serious I probably turned

971
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:27,319
Speaker 1: down more money than I made just because of what

972
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:29,319
Speaker 1: came with it, you know, because like that, a lot

973
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:33,040
Speaker 1: of it really kind of freaks me out because you're

974
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:36,120
Speaker 1: as an introverted only child, you're letting a lot of

975
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:38,920
Speaker 1: shit into your bubble and there it is, you know,

976
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:40,600
Speaker 1: And I know there will be a day where I

977
00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:46,719
Speaker 1: probably don't do this anymore. Yeah, So I wonder, I

978
00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:49,480
Speaker 1: wonder if that's true, because if this really is what

979
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:51,600
Speaker 1: you're meant to be doing. You can do this for

980
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:56,040
Speaker 1: a long time, and in some ways, by choosing not

981
00:50:56,160 --> 00:51:00,439
Speaker 1: to take the check, you're not taking the office job.

982
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 1: You're still working in the train yard. Yeah, doing the

983
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:08,480
Speaker 1: thing that that feels good. Yeah. I think for me,

984
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:12,040
Speaker 1: I love the studio, I love creating, and I love

985
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:16,560
Speaker 1: playing live when I want to. Yeah, I don't know

986
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:18,959
Speaker 1: that I really ever feel the need to go spend

987
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:20,919
Speaker 1: nine months a year on a tour bus again, though

988
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:23,080
Speaker 1: that's not really At a certain point, you're like, wait,

989
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:25,680
Speaker 1: who am I doing this for it? You know, because

990
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:29,799
Speaker 1: I wanted to go home three months ago. So I

991
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:33,719
Speaker 1: think it's learning your limits and learning you just want

992
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 1: everything to be the best you have to give, and

993
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 1: it's hard to be inspired if you're not. So that's

994
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:40,719
Speaker 1: what I've learned from it all. Sometimes the best thing

995
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:42,719
Speaker 1: I can do for my music is to not play

996
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:46,000
Speaker 1: music and go and just live for a while. Yeah,

997
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:49,319
Speaker 1: I really have been. I've been fishing all summer. Man,

998
00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:51,960
Speaker 1: we're down we're down here on the coast. So I

999
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:56,320
Speaker 1: just feeding the crabs and playing guitar, playing with the kids,

1000
00:51:57,000 --> 00:52:01,399
Speaker 1: reading a lot of Harry Potter to them. And then, uh,

1001
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:03,640
Speaker 1: you know at night, I spend time on the internet

1002
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:07,000
Speaker 1: looking at really expensive cars that go way too fast.

1003
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:09,600
Speaker 1: And that's that's sort of where I'm at. You know,

1004
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:14,080
Speaker 1: sounds pretty good. Yeah, it's something to do. Yeah, writing,

1005
00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:17,720
Speaker 1: writing songs when they come, and then looking looking forward

1006
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:21,360
Speaker 1: to what's next. Great man, Well, thank you for talking,

1007
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:27,240
Speaker 1: you too, man, Thank you, Rut. Thanks to Stigill Simpson

1008
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:29,440
Speaker 1: for catching up with the Rick. You can hear all

1009
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:31,920
Speaker 1: of our favorite Sturgil songs on a playlist at Broken

1010
00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:35,440
Speaker 1: Record podcast dot com, and be sure to subscribe to

1011
00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:39,560
Speaker 1: our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash broken Record Podcast.

1012
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:43,120
Speaker 1: There you can find extended cuts of new and old episodes.

1013
00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:47,240
Speaker 1: Broken Record is produced with helpful Leah Rose, Jason Gambrel,

1014
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:52,000
Speaker 1: Martin Gonzalez, Eric Sandler, and it's executive produced by miol Bell.

1015
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:55,239
Speaker 1: Broken Record is production of Pushkin Industries. And if you

1016
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:57,520
Speaker 1: like our show, please remember to share, rate, and review

1017
00:52:57,600 --> 00:53:00,799
Speaker 1: us on your podcast. Act our themes, expect any beats.

1018
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:07,160
Speaker 1: I'm justin Richmond, Bass m