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Speaker 1: From the dark corners of the web, an emerging mindset

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Speaker 1: I am a loser if also we know wouldn't pay

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Speaker 1: me either.

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Speaker 2: A hidden world of resentment, cynicism, anger against women at

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Speaker 2: a deadly tipping point.

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Speaker 3: In Cells will be added to the Terrorism Guide.

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Speaker 4: Pelissea.

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Speaker 5: A driver intentionally drove into a crowd, killing ten people.

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Speaker 6: Tomorrow is the day of retribution, the day in which

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Speaker 6: I will have my revenge.

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Speaker 7: Is very angry, expressing a lot of hatred towards women

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Speaker 7: and towards men who get all the women.

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Speaker 8: I just told my husband I know she's dead.

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Speaker 1: This is in Cells, a production of Kat's Studios and iHeartRadio,

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Speaker 1: Season one, Episode two, Blackpilled. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a producer

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Speaker 1: at KATI Studios, with Stephanie Leidecker, Gabriel Castillo, Connor Powell,

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Speaker 1: and Carolyn Miller. Even as we write this script, the

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Speaker 1: idea of online radicalization of all forms has been top

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Speaker 1: of news.

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Speaker 9: What we are seeing is people that are being radicalized

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Speaker 9: typically are high and what's called the dark triad, which

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Speaker 9: is macavelianism, narcissism, and psychopathy, leading us to believe that

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Speaker 9: this ideology had infected him and had taken over.

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Speaker 10: A lot of us are not immune to the danger

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Speaker 10: of the kind of radicalization that takes place.

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Speaker 1: This goes all the way up to the Senate Judiciary

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Speaker 1: Committee hearing on September sixteenth. Here's Director of the FBI

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Speaker 1: Cash Betel, speaking with Senator Lindsay Graham.

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Speaker 10: The data shows that social media is wildly out of control.

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Speaker 9: This guy's FBI director. He says that social media is

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Speaker 9: wildly out of control.

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Speaker 1: Online radicalization of all sorts is becoming more prevalent, specifically

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Speaker 1: as it relates to an uptick in in cell ideology.

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Speaker 1: Last episode, we covered the basics of what a self

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Speaker 1: identifying in cell is, an involuntarily celibate man who often

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Speaker 1: feels hopeless with his position in life and who can

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Speaker 1: sometimes turn violent. Here's boys In Hodson, Communications and marketing

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Speaker 1: director for the Mankind Project. He explains research going on

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Speaker 1: in this area.

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Speaker 10: There is really beautiful research out there from Equamundo than

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Speaker 10: another organization called Diverting Hate. That have all been kind

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Speaker 10: of looking at these things, and what they see about

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Speaker 10: men who get involved in the in cell community is

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Speaker 10: that they are really attached to adhering to really strict

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Speaker 10: gender roles around what it means to be a man,

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Speaker 10: and the more they adhere to that kind of dominance based, hierarchical,

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Speaker 10: really unhealthy beliefs about women, really unhealthy beliefs about people

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Speaker 10: of color, a lot of that stuff. And the more

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Speaker 10: that they get attached to these rigid, unhealthy the ideas

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Speaker 10: about what it means to be a man, the easier

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Speaker 10: it is for them to get drawn into hating other people,

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Speaker 10: to get drawn into self harm and harm of others.

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Speaker 10: We talk about it as either dominance based masculinity or

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Speaker 10: the man box culture.

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Speaker 1: We ask Boyson to explain man box culture.

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Speaker 10: The idea of the man box is that most boys

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Speaker 10: and men that you speak to out there in the world,

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Speaker 10: they know what they're supposed to do. They know what

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Speaker 10: fits in the man box. Don't be gay, make a

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Speaker 10: lot of money, keep your emotions to yourself, man up,

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Speaker 10: don't hurt, don't share. All of these kinds of things

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Speaker 10: that you know. Little boys start embodying these things at

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Speaker 10: four or five years old. They already know what's inside

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Speaker 10: the box.

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Speaker 1: We spoke to Boyson about how these messages get internalized

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Speaker 1: and what that does to the mindset of in cells.

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Speaker 10: So the messages that many of us heard when we

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Speaker 10: were younger, and this is you know, I'm in my

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Speaker 10: fifties and I still remember these messages, right. Don't get

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Speaker 10: vulnerable with other people, don't show your weakness, don't share

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Speaker 10: your emotions, toughen up. A lot of these messages get internalized,

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Speaker 10: and from those internalized messages, it is absolutely recipe for isolation.

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Speaker 10: It is absolutely a recipe to stay home, not go out,

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Speaker 10: only have online community, and restrict your kind of sharing

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Speaker 10: about what's real and true and vulnerable about who you are.

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Speaker 1: To better understand the different ideologies and cells fall into,

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Speaker 1: we first need to understand the terminology that's used, starting

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Speaker 1: with red pill and black pill.

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Speaker 10: So there's the red pill world where you've woken up

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Speaker 10: in quotation marks to the fact that you know feminism

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Speaker 10: has gone too far and men are really the ones

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Speaker 10: who are being victimized these days, and that is backed

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Speaker 10: up in the in cell world by this idea of

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Speaker 10: black pill and the blackpill science that they bring into

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Speaker 10: this is really flawed versions of evolutionary science or eugenics

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Speaker 10: that places human beings in very distinct hierarchies. So this

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Speaker 10: idea of six' six' six six, feet tall six figure

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Speaker 10: incomes six. Inches plus that's the, ideal, man right and

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Speaker 10: then every other gradation of society is kind of ranked based.

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Speaker 10: On that so a lot of the in cell ideology

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Speaker 10: is based on really bad science that they call, black

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Speaker 10: pill that they believe is these are the women, Who

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Speaker 10: succeed these are the men. Who succeed i'm, Not that

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Speaker 10: i'll never. Be that i'm doomed.

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Speaker 1: For a deeper dive into black, pill ideology as well

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Speaker 1: as the blue and red pill ideologies that go along.

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Speaker 1: With it we spoke To Doctor david lay who describes

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Speaker 1: the importance of in cels having their. Own Language doctor

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Speaker 1: lay is a, clinical psychologist, sex therapist and author of.

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Speaker 1: Multiple books he also does training for therapists around. The, world.

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Speaker 2: So, you, know first it's important to recognize that having,

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Speaker 2: idiosyncratic terminology having a certain language and terminology that is

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Speaker 2: native and unique to a community is one of the

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Speaker 2: ways of building identity because people that are outside the

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Speaker 2: community don't know what these, terms mean and having the

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Speaker 2: secret language keeps other people out and it builds this

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Speaker 2: idea of secret knowledge. And belongingness by not only knowing,

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Speaker 2: the terms but using the whole pill kind, of concept

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Speaker 2: you know the red pill and. Blue pill we remember That,

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Speaker 2: from matrix and, you know the red pill is when

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Speaker 2: you reject society being the way you've been told it's going,

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Speaker 2: to be and you decide to see underneath.

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Speaker 6: The current.

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Speaker 1: The people who do not see underneath the curtain are considered.

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Speaker 1: Blue pilled this is someone who is not part of

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Speaker 1: the in cell community and is considered ignorant of what

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Speaker 1: in cells believe to be the quote truth in the in.

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Speaker 1: Cell worldview those who are blue pilled believe what we'd

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Speaker 1: call mainstream ideas. About relationships that personality and emotional connection

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Speaker 1: are important in attracting, a partner that sex and intimacy

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Speaker 1: are not commodities controlled solely, by women and that gender

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Speaker 1: roles in society are not unfairly skewed. Against Men doctor

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Speaker 1: lay continues describing the, bleakest designation the.

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Speaker 11: Black pill, the, blackpill though is somewhat unique to the,

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Speaker 11: insel community and it is a bleak cynical view that

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Speaker 11: in seldom being an insul is a permanent state that

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Speaker 11: cannot be overcome or altered by. An insul it's really

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Speaker 11: an embracing, of hopelessness which is a unique component again

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Speaker 11: of the in. Cel community that's one of the things

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Speaker 11: that there's a lot of, echoes around which is you can't,

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Speaker 11: get out you can't, change this and if you, try to.

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Speaker 11: You'll fail and if you, try to you're not a.

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Speaker 11: Real insul you're only a real insul if you accept

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Speaker 11: that this is.

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Speaker 2: Your existence.

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Speaker 1: The concept of echo chambers came up often while producing.

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Speaker 1: This podcast most, of us to, be honest. Were unfamiliar

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Speaker 1: we Asked doctor lay to explain what an echo chamber

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Speaker 1: is in this context and what the. Implications are.

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Speaker 2: The echo chamber component of any online extreme ideology group

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Speaker 2: is intended to enforce rules upon what is said and

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Speaker 2: how people behave in, this community and it also sets

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Speaker 2: up these men that if they ever dare to question

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Speaker 2: or go against the components of the, echo chamber they

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Speaker 2: are viewed, as unfaithful. As disloyal all of that is

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Speaker 2: intended to shame and mandate loyalty to the echo. Chamber

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Speaker 2: dialogue the reason it's an echo chamber is that it

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Speaker 2: is intended to program that ideology into. People's thinking.

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Speaker 1: Let's stop here for, a break we'll be back in.

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Speaker 1: A moment while learning about the blue pill and black,

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Speaker 1: pill Designations Doctor david lay also spoke to us about

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Speaker 1: what it means. To ascend.

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Speaker 2: So ascend is a term that the in cells us

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Speaker 2: to describe when an in cell overcomes their in cell

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Speaker 2: nature and when the, in cell frankly is successful at

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Speaker 2: getting a date or getting, a girlfriend getting a. Sex

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Speaker 2: partner and they described that this is when he ascends

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Speaker 2: past or out of his in. Cel identity but, even

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Speaker 2: though and there have been a couple of, you know

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Speaker 2: relatively well known in cell leaders who then quote unquote

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Speaker 2: ascended and did successfully get a date or. A girlfriend

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Speaker 2: and what was fascinating in those cases was that at

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Speaker 2: first these guys were somewhat celebrated by their, inceel peers

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Speaker 2: and then they. Were attacked then they were horrifically attacked

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Speaker 2: and shamed and just cut to ribbons in these online

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Speaker 2: communities by their inceell peers for, betraying them for betraying

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Speaker 2: the in. Cell identity and so even though they have

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Speaker 2: this term that you, can ascend the in cells encourage

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Speaker 2: each other against it because it would go Against that

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Speaker 2: blackpiel kind of idea that. It's hopeless.

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Speaker 1: Then this language in cells used to describe others the

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Speaker 1: quote normies or normal people often normies refer to those with,

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Speaker 1: healthy relationships specifically romantic and. Sexual ones this brings us

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Speaker 1: To the chads and the staces for a, Visual picture Barbie.

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Speaker 1: And Kendall.

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Speaker 2: The Chad and Stacy and becky are these terms that

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Speaker 2: they that the in cels use to describe those men

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Speaker 2: and women who are more qualitatively attractive. AND Desirable a

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Speaker 2: chad is, you know that that man who is, you

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Speaker 2: know perceived as being tall and successful and, you know

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Speaker 2: traditionally handsome and desired, by women with social characteristics to

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Speaker 2: qualities like wealth that will make women attracted to him

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Speaker 2: and choose him over. The Insul the stacy is a more,

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Speaker 2: attractive female But the stacy is is oftentimes perceived as

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Speaker 2: also being kind of dumb. And shallow becky is a less,

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Speaker 2: you know kind of classically, attractive woman but more more

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Speaker 2: the kind of bookish sort, of female but also still

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Speaker 2: again more attractive than the. End cell and again there's

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Speaker 2: there's a tremendous amount of misogyny in the in, cell

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Speaker 2: community and most of, their anger most of their hatred

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Speaker 2: is actually reserved for the women and Not. That chad

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Speaker 2: they don't talk about Killing, the chad but they do

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Speaker 2: talk about the deceptiveness and the dishonesty, of Women both

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Speaker 2: Becky's and stacy's that they would choose those chads over

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Speaker 2: other men such as.

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Speaker 3: The insuls.

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Speaker 1: Another thing to look at is just where in. Cells

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Speaker 1: congregate part of the reasons so little is widely known

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Speaker 1: about the subculture is that they self select into different

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Speaker 1: online spaces to speak openly. Among themselves Here's Producer, connor

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Speaker 1: powell who has spent time engaging on in cell forums for.

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Speaker 1: This podcast.

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Speaker 7: There is this sort of feeling that their real life

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Speaker 7: for them is behind the key board on a social,

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Speaker 7: media forum Whether it's discord or the insell, community forums

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Speaker 7: Or even reddit to, some Extent although reddit doesn't have

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Speaker 7: as many in cells on it as it used to

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Speaker 7: because they've banned a lot of the language and the

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Speaker 7: behavior that you know it used.

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Speaker 3: To attract.

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Speaker 1: Reddit is mainly used for, community discussions with thousands of

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Speaker 1: specialized forums. Called subreddits any of us might Go to

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Speaker 1: reddit to discuss literally anything from the best medical shows

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Speaker 1: to WATCH on tv to how to clean. Your windows,

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Speaker 1: as mentioned many in cell conversations have been Banned. From

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Speaker 1: reddit discord is another platform we've been hearing a lot,

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Speaker 1: about lately.

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Speaker 10: We're also going to be investigating anyone and everyone involved

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Speaker 10: In that.

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Speaker 6: Discord chat there's an increase in violent online groups using

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Speaker 6: the App.

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Speaker 1: CALLED discord i Spoke with Chase. About discord chase is

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Speaker 1: in his, early twenties outgoing with a healthy, social life.

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Speaker 1: A girlfriend.

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Speaker 6: I use discord for the first time probably my freshman

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00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:09,920
Speaker 6: sophomore year of. High school it was primarily used, for

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00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:13,120
Speaker 6: gaming BUT as i started to establish more friends on,

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00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:16,560
Speaker 6: the platform it then became more of an. Interpersonal thing

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Speaker 6: like a lot of people Get on discord to talk

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Speaker 6: to people that they wouldn't necessarily see in. REAL life

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Speaker 6: i have friends across the COUNTRY that i keep up

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Speaker 6: With on DISCORD that i might not even necessarily still game,

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Speaker 6: with actively like maybe here. And there but it's primarily

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Speaker 6: just something where it's a community based PLATFORM that i

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Speaker 6: use to talk to PEOPLE that i don't have any

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Speaker 6: connection with in.

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Speaker 1: REAL life I asked chase if while in the process

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Speaker 1: of playing games and Chatting, on discord he only communicated

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Speaker 1: with those he knew in, real life or if he connected. With, strangers, oh.

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Speaker 6: Yeah it's primarily strangers and, funny ENOUGH like i have

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Speaker 6: friends in real life that have introduced me to people

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Speaker 6: on Discord that i've never met in, real life that

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00:15:57,360 --> 00:15:59,200
Speaker 6: have then gone on to introduce me to more people

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Speaker 6: and more People in before you, know it you're a

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Speaker 6: part of this twenty thirty forty person discord and you

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Speaker 6: don't know ninety five percent.

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Speaker 1: OF them I, asked chase with the discussion Centered, around.

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Speaker 6: Honestly Especially as i've, grown older the discord has gone

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00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:16,280
Speaker 6: well above and beyond. Just gaming now we're talking, about

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00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:21,080
Speaker 6: politics we're talking about, social relationships we're talking about what

251
00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:24,080
Speaker 6: people are doing in their, free time what their. Interests

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00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:26,880
Speaker 6: are it goes way. Beyond gaming and it's to the

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Speaker 6: point NOW where i can SAY that i have a

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Speaker 6: very solid grasp of the types of People that i'm

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00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:35,160
Speaker 6: dealing with strictly through discord without ever having actually.

256
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Speaker 1: MET them I asked chase if he'd encountered conversations that.

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Speaker 6: Turned, Volatile ABSOLUTELY and, I mean i'm not even. Gonna

258
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Speaker 6: lie most of the people on this discord are older

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Speaker 6: guys or just like guys, my age and they're. Strictly

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00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:51,640
Speaker 6: gamers and a lot of these people the farther AND

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00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:53,920
Speaker 6: farther i get removed from the PEOPLE that i know in.

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Speaker 6: Real life the more people that are Different that, i'm

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Speaker 6: meeting a lot of which are people that don't really

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00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:02,400
Speaker 6: have interaction with other people in. Real life like a

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Speaker 6: lot of, these people most of their relationships Exist through

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Speaker 6: discord or through, online platforms and it's very obvious when

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00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:11,800
Speaker 6: you're interacting with those people because they socialize a little

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Speaker 6: bit differently than the people that you know in.

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Speaker 1: Real life let's stop here for. Another break we'll be

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Speaker 1: back in.

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Speaker 8: A moment.

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Speaker 1: In cell chatter can be, hate, filled menacing. And threatening

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Speaker 1: in what might be the absolute worst instance of what,

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Speaker 1: can Happen Producer carolyn miller Spoke With. Kim devns kim's

275
00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:59,439
Speaker 1: seventeen year, Old Daughter, bianca devins was tragically killed her

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00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:03,240
Speaker 1: killer that took brutal Pictures of bianca's corpse and posted

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Speaker 1: to in.

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Speaker 4: Cell groups seventeen Year Old bianca Devins of utica was

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00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:10,399
Speaker 4: found dead in a wooded area at the end of.

280
00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:13,520
Speaker 4: The street when police arrived on, the scene, The Suspect

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00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,800
Speaker 4: Brandon andrew Clark, of cicero laying on top of the

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Speaker 4: tarp covering.

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00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:22,000
Speaker 3: The Body in july, twenty nineteen the social Media platform

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00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:25,639
Speaker 3: discord was buzzing about a photo that appeared to show

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Speaker 3: a dead.

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00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:29,240
Speaker 10: Young woman her killer posted the images of her body

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00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:32,240
Speaker 10: online and they soon. Went viral but if that wasn't,

288
00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:36,280
Speaker 10: horrific enough the images were also sent to the victim's family.

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00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:40,320
Speaker 3: On discord it's fairly common for people to post gore

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00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,760
Speaker 3: and disturbing images just to sort of get a rise out.

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00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:44,680
Speaker 3: Of people.

292
00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,919
Speaker 1: The image, was shared turned, into memes and used to

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00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:51,959
Speaker 1: her As the devons family in an online campaign that

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00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:53,280
Speaker 1: goes on to. This day.

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Speaker 3: My Name Is. KIM devons i am the Mother Of,

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00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:02,640
Speaker 3: bianca devons who was murdered in. TWENTY nineteen i don't

297
00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:03,240
Speaker 3: want to say.

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00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:04,960
Speaker 8: His, name okay then Don't say.

299
00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:09,040
Speaker 3: Bianca was she was an amazing person with so. Much

300
00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:13,800
Speaker 3: potential she. Was seventeen she had just graduated high school

301
00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:17,040
Speaker 3: two weeks prior to. Her death she had plans to

302
00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:20,760
Speaker 3: pursue a degree. In psychology she wanted to work with

303
00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:25,080
Speaker 3: adolescence because she herself struggled with some pretty severe mental.

304
00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:29,000
Speaker 3: Health issues she was. Very artsy she was into music.

305
00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:33,119
Speaker 3: And art she especially liked. Digital art my favorite memories

306
00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:37,560
Speaker 3: are just our times of us, Being together LIKE when

307
00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:40,080
Speaker 3: i Think OF bianca i always think of like she

308
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:43,679
Speaker 3: was always by. My side she, was definitely, you know

309
00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:46,320
Speaker 3: my little. Best friend like since she, was little she was.

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00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:50,199
Speaker 3: Always attached was she an only child or did she

311
00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:53,760
Speaker 3: have any? Brothers sisters so she has her, Younger, sister

312
00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:57,680
Speaker 3: olivia and then She has maddie who is, now eight

313
00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:02,240
Speaker 3: and she has a stepbrother and. To stepsisters she's the oldest.

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Speaker 5: Of everyone so she had just graduated from high school

315
00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:07,840
Speaker 5: and she wanted to go, to college and you said

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00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:08,439
Speaker 5: she wanted to go.

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00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:10,040
Speaker 8: Into psychology she.

318
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:12,159
Speaker 3: Was going to start in her. Community College so biaka

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00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:14,920
Speaker 3: was a young senior in. High school she, was still,

320
00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:17,520
Speaker 3: you know seventeen and would have turned eighteen in. The

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00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:20,680
Speaker 3: fall so she wasn't ready to leave. Home yet so

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00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:23,000
Speaker 3: she had decided she wanted to do her first two

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00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:25,600
Speaker 3: years at community college and then she would transfer to

324
00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:27,880
Speaker 3: a four. Year school but she wasn't ready to leave.

325
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:31,119
Speaker 3: Me Yet, so biaka you never knew what kind of

326
00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:34,040
Speaker 3: like aesthetic she was gonna have from day. To day

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00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:35,639
Speaker 3: she often dyed her hair in the middle of. The

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00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:37,160
Speaker 3: night we never knew what we were going to wake

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00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:39,760
Speaker 3: up to. Color hair she. Was seventeen she was just

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Speaker 3: kind of. Finding herself she was just very much a,

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00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:49,919
Speaker 3: free spirit but confident, in herself like she knew she

332
00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:52,639
Speaker 3: kind of merged to the beat of her, own drum

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00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:54,639
Speaker 3: but had confidence.

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Speaker 2: In that.

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00:20:57,520 --> 00:20:59,159
Speaker 8: You don't have to say, His name i'll. Say it

336
00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:02,600
Speaker 8: She Knew. Brandon clark would you consider?

337
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:06,640
Speaker 3: Them friends they were. Good friends we all, knew him.

338
00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:09,080
Speaker 3: You know she'd introduced him to everyone in. The family

339
00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:11,479
Speaker 3: they hadn't known each other for like, too long but

340
00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:13,920
Speaker 3: it was a, few months, and yeah they were.

341
00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:18,919
Speaker 1: Good Friends on, july thirteenth, Twenty nineteen bianca went to

342
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:23,199
Speaker 1: a Concert With. Brandon clark He murdered bianca in the

343
00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:28,320
Speaker 1: early Morning of. July fourteenth it's been widely Reported that

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00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:31,320
Speaker 1: bianca met up with a male friend, Of, hers alex at,

345
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:35,639
Speaker 1: the concert that the pair shared, a kiss and that's

346
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:39,480
Speaker 1: somehow it Quote set brandon off and led to. The

347
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:43,640
Speaker 1: murder we asked him to clarify the events of. The, evening.

348
00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:50,440
Speaker 3: No that is. A misconception he had planned this. Very

349
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:55,560
Speaker 3: clearly there's clear evidence at least a, week prior including

350
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:59,000
Speaker 3: on a note in his notesap on his Phone from

351
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:04,080
Speaker 3: july eleventh entitled, murder suicide and he had a list

352
00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:07,159
Speaker 3: he makes lists for, LIKE everything i mean down to

353
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:09,480
Speaker 3: like his. Favorite cereals they found in his jail sadelel

354
00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,240
Speaker 3: List of so there was a list that was Created on,

355
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:15,480
Speaker 3: july eleventh and there was other evidence Prior to july

356
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:17,480
Speaker 3: eleventh of. His planning if he was.

357
00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:19,720
Speaker 8: Planning this did he ever have a motive as.

358
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:23,600
Speaker 3: To, why no he still maintains it was just extreme.

359
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:30,120
Speaker 3: Emotional disturbance he has never given us. A why if

360
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:33,040
Speaker 3: we had gone, to trial the motive presented by the

361
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:35,960
Speaker 3: prosecution would have been. Number one he was just obsessed

362
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:38,520
Speaker 3: with murder and it was something that he researched, a

363
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:40,320
Speaker 3: lot and, you know read up on a lot of

364
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:44,800
Speaker 3: different serial killers and, you know. Murder cases and he

365
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 3: was very Jealous. Of bianca she had this really. Bright

366
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:50,720
Speaker 3: future she just kind of had everything that he didn't

367
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:53,000
Speaker 3: and that. He wanted part of the motive would have

368
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,280
Speaker 3: been LIKE if i can't, have you no. One Can

369
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 3: because bianca had made it very clear that they were

370
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,840
Speaker 3: just friends and he definitely wanted more and. She didn't

371
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:05,000
Speaker 3: she just wanted to. Be friends so that was definitely

372
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:08,479
Speaker 3: another part of his motive was extreme jealousy AND if

373
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:10,879
Speaker 3: i can't, have you no. One can one of my

374
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:12,760
Speaker 3: vivid memories is sitting down with the police at the

375
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:16,120
Speaker 3: police station and them telling me there were no red

376
00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:18,240
Speaker 3: FLAGS because i WHAT did? I miss i did not.

377
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,120
Speaker 3: SEE anything i never would have, Expected this and they,

378
00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:24,080
Speaker 3: were like there really weren't any red flags that you could.

379
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:29,160
Speaker 3: Have seen and it wasn't necessarily this concert or any type.

380
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 3: Of event it was just he's. A murderer he's evil

381
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,000
Speaker 3: and if it wasn't, your daughter and if, it wasn't,

382
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 3: you know after, this concert it would have been. Someone else.

383
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,159
Speaker 1: Another time we asked him to walk us through what

384
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 1: happened at. Her home the Morning of, JULY fourteenth i.

385
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,719
Speaker 3: Was woken up by My, daughter olivia who was fifteen at,

386
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:55,479
Speaker 3: the time and, she said the police are here Something.

387
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,119
Speaker 3: About bianca it was like little after, seven am so

388
00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 3: she's just woken up kind. Of us they presented that

389
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,359
Speaker 3: they were coming for a. Welfare check, that first, you

390
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:06,280
Speaker 3: know we're saying with bank, your daughter is? She here

391
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 3: and then they asked me if she went to, a

392
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 3: concert and then said that he had posted some concerning

393
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:15,679
Speaker 3: things on the internet that he may have.

394
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 2: Hurt her.

395
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:19,959
Speaker 8: What happened?

396
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 3: After that at the time that they came to. My

397
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 3: house the police were also getting calls from people In

398
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 3: the discoord server where the picture was, originally posted and

399
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 3: THEN they i know that they received a call from,

400
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:36,359
Speaker 3: his aunt who he had called after. The murder he

401
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,440
Speaker 3: had called and left several messages on family, members' phones

402
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 3: and then at some point while they were still at,

403
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 3: my house he called them. One himself in, the meantime

404
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 3: while we were trying to figure, this out, you know

405
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 3: we were all going through. Our Phones bianca's instagram was

406
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 3: logged into, my PHONE so i was going through her

407
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 3: messages to try to find messages between him and her

408
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 3: to see if there was any THING that i. Could

409
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,880
Speaker 3: find and as we were, doing that my best friend

410
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,359
Speaker 3: lived with me at, the time and she saw the

411
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:09,639
Speaker 3: Picture on instagram and brought it out to my father

412
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 3: who was outside talking to. The police so my father

413
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:17,920
Speaker 3: and my friend knew pretty early on that most likely

414
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 3: she had. Been killed.

415
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 8: He took a photo of her and posted.

416
00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 3: It, online yes he Took, several yeah and he did that. Right,

417
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,920
Speaker 3: away yes he recorded the, entire thing and then he

418
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:37,440
Speaker 3: did take some, still photos posted that On her, discord

419
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 3: server and then he moved her out of his car

420
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 3: covered her with. A tarp he took several photos he

421
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 3: Posted to instagram, in snapchat, you know with her body

422
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 3: covered in the background with the knife. Of himself he

423
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 3: spray painted May You Never forget me on the roadway

424
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 3: in front of. His car he started a fire and

425
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:03,920
Speaker 3: like tried to burn a laptop in a hard drive

426
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,199
Speaker 3: and some. Other things really kind of like try to

427
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:11,200
Speaker 3: make this as sensationalized. As, possible really, you know the

428
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:15,119
Speaker 3: most attention seeking is as he. Passively could and then

429
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 3: he made sure to call name one. ONE himself i

430
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 3: think the police knew we're trying to confirm things before,

431
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 3: telling us but we knew that something had happened to

432
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:29,359
Speaker 3: Be and olivia's friend immediately came over and a round the,

433
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:31,679
Speaker 3: same time the police told us that they, you know they,

434
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,480
Speaker 3: found him and, they found, you know a woman that

435
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:36,719
Speaker 3: matched the, act's description and they believe it.

436
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 8: Was her.

437
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 3: OLIVIA'S friend i just, heard This like i've never heard

438
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 3: such a scream in, my life as like literal just.

439
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:47,679
Speaker 3: Horrible Scream and olivia's friend had been sent the Picture.

440
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 3: On instagram he was fifteen at the.

441
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,119
Speaker 8: Time too he tried to.

442
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 5: Commit suicide he thought it was going to be a,

443
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 5: murder suicide and when they, got there he attempted to

444
00:26:58,359 --> 00:26:59,680
Speaker 5: slit his, own throat.

445
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 3: So he waited for the police to. Show up before he,

446
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 3: did that he took pictures laying on top, of her

447
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 3: waited for the police to, show up took a picture

448
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,919
Speaker 3: and posted like as he was letting, his throat took

449
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 3: a picture and posted It. To snapchat and then as

450
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 3: they were wheeling him away in, the ambulance he was

451
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 3: asking the police how many news stations had picked up.

452
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 3: The story oh. My god SO when I say i

453
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,400
Speaker 3: don't want to give him the attention that, he's seeking

454
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,920
Speaker 3: it's like every single thing he did was to get

455
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:31,959
Speaker 3: as much attention on him.

456
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,359
Speaker 5: AS possible i can imagine you guys are just losing

457
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:37,679
Speaker 5: your minds about all the photos that were posted and

458
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 5: the images that are. Being circulated what did that do

459
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 5: to your.

460
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:47,439
Speaker 3: GRIEVING process i just think we were so much in

461
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 3: shock and disbelief that like this had actually happened, to

462
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 3: her like that he had done this. TO her i

463
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 3: don't think we really processed that her picture had, Gone

464
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,160
Speaker 3: viral and, you know it was a few days after

465
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:02,719
Speaker 3: and then the police had told, us like, you know

466
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,399
Speaker 3: we are getting, you know they're just coming in, so

467
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 3: Fast like Instagram and facebook are just telling, us like

468
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,400
Speaker 3: we don't know if we can. Stop this like people

469
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 3: would Tell me, biaco's trending and, you Know Irap bianca devins,

470
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 3: was trending and it just none of that really made

471
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:18,719
Speaker 3: sense to me at.

472
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 1: The time, like many if, not, Most teenagers bianca spent

473
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,919
Speaker 1: a lot of time online on, various platforms including discord

474
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 1: that's where the death picture was originally posted and began its,

475
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 1: insidious circulation propelled by. In cells we asked him if

476
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 1: she knew at the time what an. Insul, was.

477
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 3: Yes it was A term. BIAKA used, I mean i

478
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 3: wouldn't say she used, it often but once in. A while,

479
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 3: you know biakare just telling me about like things going

480
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 3: on In her internet groups and with. Her friends, YOU

481
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 3: know i was familiar with the term. In cell, you

482
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 3: know she would tell me about like in cells On

483
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 3: four chan posting about her who represented everything that in, cels, hate,

484
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 3: Beautiful confident she oftentimes would help other young girls her

485
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 3: age recognize these in cels were trying to groom them and,

486
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:15,719
Speaker 3: you know get them away. From them that the in.

487
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 3: Cel abuse So the intel community and these, you know

488
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:24,239
Speaker 3: kind of dark Websites like fourtan and some discordsers like

489
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 3: they already hated her to begin with because she thwarted

490
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 3: their plans and she stood for everything that. They hated

491
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 3: they typically, hate strong. Independent women, SO yeah, I was

492
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 3: i was familiar with the term at. The time i've

493
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 3: spoken to several experts and in cells. And psychologists he's

494
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 3: not necessarily considered an in cell because he did. Have

495
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 3: girlfriends he did other Girlfriends and bianca, and Stuff. Murdering

496
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 3: bianca these in Cels took brandon and put him on.

497
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 3: A pedestal he was now their hero because, you know

498
00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 3: he took out. This egirl.

499
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: An egirl stands for electronic or, internet girl popularized on social.

500
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 1: Media platforms often egirls have distinctive fashion aesthetics that my

501
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 1: blend emo and, anime styles frequently paired with vibrantly dyed

502
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 1: hair and. Wing dyeliner.

503
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 3: The thing that, they hated, you know this one particular

504
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 3: egir that they. ESPECIALLY hated i think a lot of

505
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 3: experts agree we wouldn't consider him an in cell at.

506
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,239
Speaker 3: That point he did have some of the tendencies and, you.

507
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 3: Know ideology but what he did and then the way

508
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 3: that he posted all the pictures brought out all the

509
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 3: in cells and the Spread of bianca's picture was the

510
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 3: in cells and, you know, the messages the horrific messages

511
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 3: that friends and family. Were receiving that was all all

512
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 3: that harassment was coming from the in. CELL community i

513
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 3: mean they were making social, media pages, you know praising

514
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 3: him as a hero and giving him the attention that

515
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 3: he was looking for While harassing biaka's family and. Exploiting

516
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 3: her and do you still get those to? THIS day, i,

517
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 3: do definitely not, as often but every once in, a

518
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 3: while like you just never know when you're going to find,

519
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 3: a post someone's going to tell you about, a post

520
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 3: when you're going to get. A message but even, you

521
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 3: know to this day now that her, you know the

522
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 3: older the kid's youngest kids are, now, eight, fourteen, Fifteen

523
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 3: sixteen so now it's just this constant fear of are

524
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:35,719
Speaker 3: they going to come across? The picture are they going

525
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 3: to come across these posts with these people are saying

526
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 3: horrible things about their sister and that she. DESERVED it,

527
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 3: i mean to, this day if you Go On, biaka's

528
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 3: instagram there's comments saying that she deserved it and just saying.

529
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 3: AWFUL things i didn't see the picture for about a

530
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 3: year and. A half anytime there was a notification on,

531
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 3: my phone someone else picked up my. Phone first and

532
00:31:56,040 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 3: then about eighteen months after, HER past i was just

533
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 3: scrolling on my phone one NIGHT and i Got an

534
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 3: instagram notification and the profile picture was the. Death photo

535
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 3: what did that do?

536
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 4: To?

537
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 3: You mentally there's no way to, describe IT because i

538
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 3: already was just. So broken that was. My baby no

539
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 3: one should ever have to, see anyone let alone their child.

540
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 5: Like that so he goes, to trial he does get,

541
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 5: found guilty and he got twenty five years. To life

542
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 5: do you feel that you got Justice for brianca or

543
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 5: that was that enough?

544
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 1: For?

545
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:40,480
Speaker 3: YOU no i don't think there's a justice in this situation.

546
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 3: At all you keep there's no bringing. Her back even

547
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 3: if he was able to be charged with first degree

548
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 3: murder and, you know was sentenced to life, WITHOUT parole

549
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 3: i don't feel. THAT'S justice i. DON'T feel i, don't, know, like,

550
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 3: yeah okay he's going to set his life. IN prison

551
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 3: i felt more Justice when bianca's life was Passed In

552
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 3: New york state.

553
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 1: We asked him To explain bianca's law as well as

554
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 1: who helped her make progress. WITH it.

555
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 3: A couple of Weeks after, brihanca's death we started tracking

556
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 3: how many times these messages were being sent, to us

557
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 3: how many like we literally had, exiuse spreadsheets and we

558
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 3: were tracking where, they were, you know where they were being,

559
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 3: uploaded to who they were being, sent to how long

560
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 3: it was taking for them to be, taken down, you

561
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 3: know if they were, being reported what was the outcome of,

562
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 3: the report, The response and so we contacted our. Local

563
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 3: congressmen this is just something that really rocked. Our community

564
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 3: and he had brought up the, you know we went

565
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 3: to him for help because we could not get a

566
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 3: hold of Anyone at Instagram, or facebook and they were

567
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 3: the main social media platforms that were allowing these pictures to.

568
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 3: BE shared i know that within like the, First week

569
00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 3: instagram Told the uticul, police, department like we just can't.

570
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 3: Do anything it's we're just being flooded with. The pictures

571
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 3: it's being shared. Too often we just can't. Stop it

572
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,879
Speaker 3: they just really overstated what, they did what they were going,

573
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,839
Speaker 3: to do, you know to prevent the pictures from being

574
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:17,360
Speaker 3: spread they never really followed through, with anything, you know

575
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,319
Speaker 3: and they just they kind of, always, said well, you know,

576
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 3: our technology it can't, you know. Catch everything so now.

577
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 8: You have this congressman. On, board yes so what does he?

578
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 3: Get started he introduced a bail for A Federal beiyanca's law.

579
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 8: And tell Us what byanca's, law is so it's changed.

580
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:41,799
Speaker 3: Over time one of our legislative writers actually rode up

581
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 3: drafted a really, really good in depth version of A

582
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:48,800
Speaker 3: Federal beyanca's law that would, you know have carve outs

583
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:52,879
Speaker 3: to repeal section two thirty so that these companies would

584
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 3: be held liable if these companies are aware of an

585
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 3: offending picture that goes against, their guidelines and it would be,

586
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 3: you know as defined in, this bill they are then

587
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 3: liable for making sure that it's not shared on. Their

588
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:11,799
Speaker 3: platform it would also create a parent's bill of right

589
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 3: and this basically would force the companies to set up

590
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 3: a centralized. Crisis, center WHO like, i said when this

591
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 3: happened to us and these pictures were spreading and, GOING

592
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 3: viral i was very LUCKY that i had a personal

593
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:30,840
Speaker 3: connection to someone. In power most people don't. Have that

594
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 3: and these companies really do need to have a designated

595
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 3: crisis center so that you can speak to someone outside

596
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 3: of the in app reporting that you're just reporting to.

597
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 3: A computer and it would not only apply to. Graphic

598
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 3: photos that would, you know, child pornography, child grooming things,

599
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 3: like that and then it would also make it a

600
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 3: crime and there would be some, you know civil liability

601
00:35:55,960 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 3: for people that are sharing. These photos on the, federal

602
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 3: level what, Happened nothing it. Got, dropped Unfortunately when biden was,

603
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 3: in office he had task force dealing with social. Media

604
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:13,719
Speaker 3: regulation he had social Media task force was it was

605
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 3: a part Of his Violence against Women. Task Force and

606
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 3: i've had. Several conversations we've all seen the, you know

607
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:23,799
Speaker 3: the social media Hearings. In congress Now that trump's, taken,

608
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:27,480
Speaker 3: over unfortunately that has all kind of. Gone Away even

609
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 3: Instagram and facebook they've repealed a lot of their community guidelines,

610
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 3: and regulations so, you know we've really taken a lot of.

611
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:38,719
Speaker 3: Steps backwards we did Pass A new york state law

612
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 3: which is it's very limiting because it only Applies To New.

613
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 3: York state, so basically if that's something's being shared With

614
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 3: The New york state and that IS. Called Niaka and

615
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 3: caroline's law that makes it a crime to share crime

616
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:57,680
Speaker 3: scene photos any kind of graphic crime scene photos with

617
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 3: the intent, to harm SO that i mean that's always it's,

618
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:04,640
Speaker 3: very encouraging but it's also it's just very limited because

619
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 3: it's just a. STATE law, i, mean ideally we need.

620
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 3: International regulation and THAT'S where i really felt like we had, some, Justice,

621
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 3: like okay we're. Doing something we are because that's automatically

622
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 3: like when, THIS happened i just Went into, mamma, Bearmon,

623
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:22,880
Speaker 3: like okay we're not going to have her more exploited in,

624
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 3: Her DEATH like i still have to protect. My daughter

625
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:30,479
Speaker 3: and by working on laws so that other people don't

626
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 3: have to go through what we went through and we

627
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 3: are still, going through WAS where i found some JUSTICE

628
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,800
Speaker 3: and i felt like, we were, you know actually doing Something.

629
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 3: For bianca it's DEFINITELY something i will always. Advocate for

630
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,279
Speaker 3: and it's hard to see the. Harassment online it is

631
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:49,759
Speaker 3: hard to see people saying negative things and just really

632
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 3: vile things about. Your daughter, you know my mom always

633
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:54,839
Speaker 3: does the like consider, the source, you know do we

634
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 3: really care what these insuls in like the basements or,

635
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 3: you know with no life, saying right like definitely with,

636
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:05,920
Speaker 3: The internet i've seen the worst parts Of, the internet

637
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 3: but the best parts Of, the internet and the people

638
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:12,040
Speaker 3: telling me how much my daughter helped them even in,

639
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 3: Her death like the message that she's in her spirit

640
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 3: and how much like hope people are getting from her

641
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:21,360
Speaker 3: story and from, you know seeing things that, she's written

642
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 3: her videos that definitely outweighs the bad and that in

643
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,479
Speaker 3: our darkest, worst times that is definitely what helps carry.

644
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 3: Us through and my biggest piece of advice is to

645
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 3: just watch your kids and know what. They're doing PIANK

646
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:40,320
Speaker 3: and i were. VERY close i manaitored both my children's,

647
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:42,320
Speaker 3: Social MEDIA so i am not going TO say i

648
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 3: would never SAY that i always knew exactly what she.

649
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:46,239
Speaker 3: Was doing she, Was seventeen like she knew how to,

650
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:48,800
Speaker 3: hide things exactly everything she was doing In. The INTERNET

651
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 3: but i was pretty knowledgeable About, the internet the, different

652
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:56,400
Speaker 3: websites the, different apps what was. Going ON and i

653
00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:59,399
Speaker 3: think that that's like the biggest message with your kids

654
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:00,839
Speaker 3: is just the end or not can be a, great

655
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:03,280
Speaker 3: place but also it can be. Very dangerous so it's

656
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:07,840
Speaker 3: very very easy to get indoctrinated in, these dark, evil

657
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 3: websites and, you know these, intel websites They're, just yeah

658
00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:14,759
Speaker 3: it's such that you can't even, imagine that like that

659
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,440
Speaker 3: people are talking about and like the theories they come,

660
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:19,800
Speaker 3: up with in the ideals that they have and the messages.

661
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 3: They're spreading it alters, your brain just as like someone

662
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 3: that you, would think right is like your average. Normal

663
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:29,799
Speaker 3: person just you can't tell, me that like reading that

664
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:31,960
Speaker 3: doesn't alter your brain at some point and if you

665
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 3: are reading it enough and then you start like connecting.

666
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:39,840
Speaker 1: With that kim is talking about, echo chambers Which doctor

667
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 1: lay described to us earlier in. This episode what happened

668
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:46,280
Speaker 1: To the devin's family is a prime and hideous example

669
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:50,240
Speaker 1: of what constant negativity and violent messages with no escape.

670
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 3: Can do and that's the problem With the internet is

671
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 3: you would never be talking about this stuff out. In,

672
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 3: public people most people would never be saying these things

673
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:04,320
Speaker 3: in public now wouldn't be ALLOWED on tv or, streaming

674
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 3: services any kind of. Cable networks IT'S while, I knew

675
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 3: i personally knew how special my, daughter was it was

676
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:14,440
Speaker 3: really really nice to see how special she was to.

677
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 3: The world and, you know even to, THIS day i

678
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:19,920
Speaker 3: still get messages and that's amazing, to see, you know

679
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 3: she really is still making an impact on people. ALL

680
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:25,319
Speaker 3: over i hate, when people as they said it a

681
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 3: lot in, the beginning we'll just get off, the internet

682
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:31,319
Speaker 3: stay off. Social media but why WHY should i not

683
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:34,240
Speaker 3: be able to Get supports like there are so many

684
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 3: good support Groups, on facebook, you know for parents that

685
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 3: have lost, their children or, grief groups and ESPECIALLY. Through covid,

686
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:45,279
Speaker 3: YOU know covid happened just a few months after. Her

687
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:49,400
Speaker 3: passing and WHY can i not connect for support or

688
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 3: stay in contact with my family just because there's a

689
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:56,440
Speaker 3: certain set of evil people that want to. Ruin THINGS

690
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:58,879
Speaker 3: so i always hated that when people, Were like i'll just. Stay,

691
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 3: off no why don't we regulate it and make it safe?

692
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:09,319
Speaker 3: For everyone it just needs to. BE safer i think

693
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 3: our laws have not caught up to the technology and.

694
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 3: THE times, i mean just as recently As The charlie.

695
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:19,240
Speaker 3: Clark murder no one needs to see someone, getting, shot

696
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 3: right even like the new channels that, we're showing like

697
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:25,760
Speaker 3: the blurred, out video you can report on news without

698
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:28,360
Speaker 3: having to show something That, GRAPHIC like i feel like

699
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:34,439
Speaker 3: people have just become so desensitized and it's just it's things.

700
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 3: Like that it's just NOT necessary. I don't i don't

701
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 3: understand the sensationalism and how people just don't think anything

702
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:46,320
Speaker 3: of watching someone get shot. AND die i don't, understand

703
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:50,560
Speaker 3: it but, it definitely, you know our society has just

704
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:55,799
Speaker 3: become way too desensitized. To violence, so yes we, need

705
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 3: regulation we. NEED laws i don't Know that i'll ever.

706
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:01,239
Speaker 3: Accept it how do you accept that your daughter is never?

707
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:05,280
Speaker 3: Coming home, you know this seventeen year old, Healthy GIRL

708
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:07,239
Speaker 3: and i.

709
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:07,799
Speaker 2: DON'T know i.

710
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:10,800
Speaker 3: DON'T know i think that we just survive.

711
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:16,799
Speaker 5: Each day was there also a scholarship Formed in?

712
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 3: Bianca's, name yes so we formed a scholarship and the

713
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:26,920
Speaker 3: scholarship goes to a college student at our local university

714
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 3: that is pursuing psychology and specifically with the intent to work.

715
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 3: With adolescents so kind of a way to help people

716
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 3: To achieve.

717
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 1: Bianca's, dream finally We, ASKED kim, i said any final

718
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:45,080
Speaker 1: ways She'd like bianca's memory to be?

719
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:50,799
Speaker 3: Carried on Be, like bianca, be kind don't spread negativity on.

720
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:51,720
Speaker 3: The internet.

721
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:57,760
Speaker 1: For more information on the case and, relevant photos follow

722
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:02,360
Speaker 1: Us on Instagram at Kati On. Score Studios in cells

723
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:06,840
Speaker 1: is Produced By Stephanie Leideger gabriel castillo And Me. Courtney

724
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 1: armstrong additional Producing By connor Powell And, Carolyn miller Editing By,

725
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 1: jeff tooi Music By. Vanicore Studios in cells is a

726
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:22,359
Speaker 1: PRODUCTION Of kt Studios And. iHeart radio for more podcasts,

727
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:26,840
Speaker 1: like this Visit the, iHeartRadio App, apple podcasts or wherever

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