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Speaker 1: I was worring, Eugene. I don't remember the time. I

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Speaker 1: think it was morning, but I don't remember June twenty seventh,

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty four.

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Speaker 2: And do you wonder about what the day was like

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Speaker 2: that you came into this world?

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Speaker 3: I do.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I wonder I've heard she was induced, but

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Speaker 1: I'm not really sure. So I wonder what it was like.

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Speaker 1: Was she in her jail cell and her water broke

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Speaker 1: and she was rushed to the hospital, or you know,

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Speaker 1: was it planned for that day?

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Speaker 3: And then, you know, I wonder what.

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Speaker 1: It was like after I was born, as she was

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Speaker 1: showing me off and you know that sort of stuff.

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Speaker 1: It's a little strange to me. But I'm wondering being

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Speaker 1: taken away from her, how did that go? Because I

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Speaker 1: remember when when I gave my son to the nurse,

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Speaker 1: it broke me. You know that that was that was

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Speaker 1: a moment of just pain, sheer pain. But I knew

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Speaker 1: he was going somewhere where he would be, you know, well,

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Speaker 1: taken care of and loved. And I chose that family.

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Speaker 1: So it's a little bit different than Diane, where she

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Speaker 1: didn't get to choose the family, and you know, she

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Speaker 1: didn't have a say in any of it. In no

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Speaker 1: way am I saying she's a victim. I'm just saying

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Speaker 1: that it might have been hard on her, but with

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Speaker 1: her mental state, it may not have been anything to her.

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Speaker 1: I guess that's kind of what I'm curious is how

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Speaker 1: did she handle it but she just like, okay, take

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Speaker 1: my kid, or was it hard for her?

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Speaker 3: Okay?

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Speaker 2: I just have one more question, is that Okay, when

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Speaker 2: you reached out to Diane and asked her about what

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Speaker 2: was that like bringing me into the world, what was

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Speaker 2: her answer?

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Speaker 1: She was acting like it was the best thing in

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Speaker 1: the world, you know, and how she was so happy

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Speaker 1: and she got to hold me and how much she

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Speaker 1: loved me. And she didn't say anything about having to

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Speaker 1: hand me over or me being taken away or anything

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Speaker 1: like that. It was just that she got to hold

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Speaker 1: me for a very long time. And I don't know,

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Speaker 1: it still kind of red creeps me out a little bit.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: It's just really strange to be born from a person

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Speaker 1: that you cannot relate to. You know, that's my biological mother,

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Speaker 1: But I don't understand her at all.

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Speaker 3: I don't ever want to be here.

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Speaker 1: I was about eight years old when my adoptive mom

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Speaker 1: started telling me about my biological mom, about how she

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Speaker 1: had done bad things. And I continued to ask and

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Speaker 1: pester her throughout the next three years, and she finally

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Speaker 1: got to the point where she just decided, you know,

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Speaker 1: you're not old enough to know this is something that's awful.

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Speaker 1: I don't ever want to tell you. In a sense

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Speaker 1: as a little kid, it was more curiosity than anything.

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Speaker 1: I was frustrated with her, and I was a little

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Speaker 1: angry that she wouldn't tell me, and so I really

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Speaker 1: just wanted to know. And then once I got that

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Speaker 1: in my head that I wanted to know that they were,

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Speaker 1: you know who she was because my mom had given

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Speaker 1: me little tidbits, you know that she was bad, that

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Speaker 1: she was in jail, that all this stuff, and I

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Speaker 1: wanted to know why. So it was more frustrating, and

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Speaker 1: I was a little bit angry when she wouldn't tell me,

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Speaker 1: And then my brain went to work of how can

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Speaker 1: I find out on my own.

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Speaker 4: And of course by tricking her babysitter, Becky did finally

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Speaker 4: find out who her mother was. Later, after watching Small Sacrifices.

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Speaker 4: Eric Mason was one of the first people to help

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Speaker 4: Becky bring her story to the press, and has a

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Speaker 4: unique insight into Becky's reasons for wanting her story out

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Speaker 4: into the world.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, well, I think all of us have family secrets.

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Speaker 5: We all have that crazy uncle, we all have something

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Speaker 5: that we don't want to share with the rest of

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Speaker 5: the world. And so as a story that one day

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Speaker 5: Becky living in Bend is watching Farah Fawcet in the

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Speaker 5: movie Small Sacrifices on television and thinking to herself, oh,

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Speaker 5: my god, that is my mother. That in that sense,

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Speaker 5: we all have to come to terms with what came

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Speaker 5: before us and who came before us, and their crimes

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Speaker 5: or their contributions, and to make peace with all of

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Speaker 5: it is to understand ourselves a whole lot more. And

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Speaker 5: so you know, the journey that we are all on

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Speaker 5: is to understand why. And with Rebecca Wow, she has

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Speaker 5: a lot of it that she can read about watch

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Speaker 5: and that she has kind of a front row seat

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Speaker 5: to this very infamous person and in so doing being

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Speaker 5: able to talk about it in the magazine and on

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Speaker 5: twenty twenty and on Oprah being able to talk about it,

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Speaker 5: and everyone think to themselves, you know what, I think

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Speaker 5: I can deal with my past a little bit better too.

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Speaker 6: You know, it's been surprising to me, Eric, is that

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Speaker 6: when I've been working on this case, I've had people

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Speaker 6: attached to the case that worked with the children, anybody

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Speaker 6: who's worked with Christy or Danny or came in contact

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Speaker 6: with the deceased. Cheryl told me, why why does anybody

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Speaker 6: care about Becky's story? She didn't get shocked, like that's

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Speaker 6: kind of surprising to me, Like, what is she really

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Speaker 6: suffering from? She was raised by a fabulous family. Why

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Speaker 6: do this big quest? Is she just seeking fame?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that's a good point. I mean when the woman

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Speaker 5: came to me who was in the film festival from

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Speaker 5: Ben and said, do you want to meet Dianoun's daughter,

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Speaker 5: I was like, Oh my god, could this even be true?

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Speaker 5: And I don't think she really was per se looking

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Speaker 5: for that. I think she was searching for the understanding

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Speaker 5: of her own life. And I think she saw journalism

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Speaker 5: and getting the story out there as a way to

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Speaker 5: maybe find the other missing pieces of the puzzle. And

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Speaker 5: so sort of crying out to the universe is not

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Speaker 5: such a bad thing. I mean, I think in some

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Speaker 5: ways it's therapeutic, and for her, I think The point

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Speaker 5: of the story is this is the amazing control part

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Speaker 5: of the experiment is she was raised in the absolute

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Speaker 5: best surroundings environment, place to live, resources from parents, and

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Speaker 5: yet she felt this toe from the water of that genetics,

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Speaker 5: and it still was pulling on her and still in

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Speaker 5: controlling her, even from in some ways from a prison

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Speaker 5: in California. There was this element there that was just

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Speaker 5: really strong, this current. And to be able to fight

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Speaker 5: that current, you really have to understand and do your

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Speaker 5: work to figure out how to overcome it.

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Speaker 4: When we contacted Diane Downs about this podcast, she responded

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Speaker 4: with a short and somewhat strange letter claiming that Becky

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Speaker 4: was not her biological daughter. And even more odd was

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Speaker 4: the fact that she included several Q tips enclosed in

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Speaker 4: a small plastic bag inside an envelope with the words

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Speaker 4: try it glued to the front, presumably saturated with her saliva,

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Speaker 4: so that we could have her DNA. In Becky's quest

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Speaker 4: to find out more about her family lineage, DNA is

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Speaker 4: all she really has to start with. We enlisted the

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Speaker 4: help of a DNA detective to help with the process,

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Speaker 4: but first we spoke to doctor Greg hammikin a DNA

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Speaker 4: expert to learn a bit about the process and what

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Speaker 4: to expect.

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Speaker 7: You know, my mother told me not to talk about myself.

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Speaker 7: I violate that constantly, So tell.

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Speaker 8: Your mom you have permission to brag.

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Speaker 7: I started about twenty something years ago doing forensic work.

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Speaker 7: Got into forensics really through teaching. I started using a

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Speaker 7: murder scenario with the DNA. But then I met Calvin Johnson,

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Speaker 7: who was a guy who got out through DNA through

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Speaker 7: the Innocence Project in New York. He was released near

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Speaker 7: where I was teaching in Georgia. He'd done seventeen years

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Speaker 7: in prison, and he's on the radio talking and they

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Speaker 7: asked him, how do you feel about the criminal justice

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Speaker 7: system now? And he said, you got to have laws.

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Speaker 7: He's not better. He's just a really great guy and

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Speaker 7: believes in the system still after what he's been through.

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Speaker 7: So we invited him too school, and as he was

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Speaker 7: speaking to my students, I wrote chapter one of Exits

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Speaker 7: to Freedom, which became his autobiography. After that book, in

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Speaker 7: nineteen ninety nine, I started getting casework because people thought, well,

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Speaker 7: if I can write about it, maybe I could help

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Speaker 7: out with some cases. So I started doing case for free,

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Speaker 7: helping out and then I testified, came back to Georgia,

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Speaker 7: tried to start a Georgia Innocence Project, and there were

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Speaker 7: already some students doing at the law school. So I

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Speaker 7: got on their board as the DNA expert and we

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Speaker 7: started working down there, and I think they worked on

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Speaker 7: six cases with people goingxonerate with them. When I was

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Speaker 7: in London working on a private case, I was doing

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Speaker 7: research on how they do things in Europe, and so

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Speaker 7: I got in touch with Amanda Knox's being she was

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Speaker 7: a trial at that point. I joined the team, got

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Speaker 7: a bunch of American experts to look at the case

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Speaker 7: along with with Johnson. She was doing the same thing.

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Speaker 7: We wrote a report to the court, the court couldn't

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Speaker 7: accept it. She's convicted, and then I just kept working

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Speaker 7: on a case of the family for about four years.

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Speaker 7: That case really got so much press attention and so

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Speaker 7: many fans and people who hated her. It was kind

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Speaker 7: of like you know, O Jay's case. It was such

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Speaker 7: a controversial case. So that really kind of thrusts our

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Speaker 7: little project with much more in the limelight for a while,

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Speaker 7: both in positive and negative ways.

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Speaker 8: I called you a couple of weeks ago because I

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Speaker 8: wanted to ask you where to start with DNA because

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Speaker 8: Becky and I are on an interesting journey together and

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Speaker 8: I have no knowledge of DNA, and it's critical to

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Speaker 8: the journey that Becky and I are going on.

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Speaker 1: I am the biological daughter of Diane Downes, and I

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Speaker 1: am just curious about everything with DNA. So Diane actually

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Speaker 1: denies that I'm her biological daughter. My original birth certificate

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Speaker 1: actually says that she is my birth mother. Diane has

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Speaker 1: sent her DNA to the studio so that we can,

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Speaker 1: you know, try and match that. But I'm actually really

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Speaker 1: interested to going to search for my biological father. Would

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Speaker 1: that be something that we could do with running my

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Speaker 1: DNA through some system.

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Speaker 4: We found out that, due to Becky's ethnic background, is

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Speaker 4: actually highly likely that she'll be able to find a

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Speaker 4: lot of information through commercial DNA service.

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Speaker 7: There's good news in that because the American genealogical databases

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Speaker 7: are populated disproportionately with Caucasians, whereas the criminal databases are not.

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Speaker 7: It's just just the opposite and the criminal databases, you know,

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Speaker 7: the good news for Caucasians who are looking for their

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Speaker 7: families is you're likely to get a lot of information

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Speaker 7: from any of the commercial genealogy companies.

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Speaker 4: According to doctor Greg interestingly enough, men often have a

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Speaker 4: much easier time tracing the lineage.

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Speaker 7: Because that men definitely you know, usually gives their last name.

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Speaker 7: But no, you should be able to find out pretty

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Speaker 7: easily with the genetic test that you can send off

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Speaker 7: to any of the commercial shops and they link to

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Speaker 7: all these great pay pertrayals. There are lots of things

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Speaker 7: people are doing that with the through these ancestry records.

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Speaker 7: I don't think you're going to have a terrible problem

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Speaker 7: finding at least the lineage of both your parents.

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Speaker 4: Doctor Gray continued to explain some of the technical aspects

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Speaker 4: of examining DNA, as well as the process itself and

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Speaker 4: some of the science behind it, but ultimately his suggestion

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Speaker 4: was that we contact a genealogist, someone whose job it

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Speaker 4: is to do a deep dive into the results provided

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Speaker 4: by commercial DNA service and really trace the backgrounds and

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Speaker 4: family lines by using the results as a foundation and

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Speaker 4: researching beyond them. So we reached out to Michelle Leonard,

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Speaker 4: a self proclaimed DNA detective.

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Speaker 9: I'm Michelle, and I am a professional genealogist, a DNA detective,

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Speaker 9: an author, a historian, and my main specialism is working

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Speaker 9: with DNA testing in order to identify unknown ancestors, so

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Speaker 9: all sorts of unknown ancestor misters mainly unknown parentage so

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Speaker 9: unknown parents, unknown grandparents. But people will come to me

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Speaker 9: with more distant unknown ancestor mysteries as well, like ann

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Speaker 9: great and second great grandparents. What I do is I

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Speaker 9: marry up all my years of genealogical expertise in creating

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Speaker 9: and building family trees and in living person tracing, and

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Speaker 9: with my DNA know how to try and identify these

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Speaker 9: mystery ancestors. In general, people will come to me because

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Speaker 9: they've heard or maybe they've seen something on TV, or

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Speaker 9: they've read an article, or they've just found out that

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Speaker 9: DNA testing can help with their mystery. Some people come

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Speaker 9: to me right at the beginning, like I think Becky is,

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Speaker 9: where they've not yet done any testing. They don't know

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Speaker 9: where they should test, they don't know how to go

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Speaker 9: about it. They've just found out. They've got this idea

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Speaker 9: that doing DNA testing might solve their mystery, might help

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Speaker 9: them find out who their father was or who their

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Speaker 9: grandfather was, that kind of thing. Others will come to

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Speaker 9: me after they've tested, and they don't know what to

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Speaker 9: do with it, and so they maybe google for a

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Speaker 9: DNA expert, a DNA detective, or a genetic genealogist, and

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Speaker 9: they might hit upon me and contact me. At that point,

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Speaker 9: they might already have been building perhaps a maternal tree

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Speaker 9: or trees for the lines that they know of, and

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Speaker 9: they want to do it themselves, but then they just

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Speaker 9: hit a roadblock and they can't get any further, and

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Speaker 9: they're frustrated with it, and they think, I need somebody

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Speaker 9: with a bit more expertise on this than I have,

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Speaker 9: and then they'll come to me at that point.

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Speaker 4: One of the advantages of knowing your family line is

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Speaker 4: having an understanding of their medical history. Becky has experienced

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Speaker 4: some health problems in recent years, and she believes that

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Speaker 4: knowing who her father is will help provide some insight

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Speaker 4: to not only where she comes from, but also help

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Speaker 4: establish a background on some of the medical problems she

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Speaker 4: may be genetically predisposed to.

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Speaker 1: I just would like to find out who my biological

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Speaker 1: father is, not because my family life is disrupted or unhealthy.

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Speaker 1: Because my parents are amazing. I love them dearly, but

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Speaker 1: I'm just getting older. I have quite a bit of

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Speaker 1: health problems that are going on as I'm aging, and

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Speaker 1: I'm realizing that I never met my biological father, and

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Speaker 1: it is something that I kind of wanted to do.

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Speaker 9: Oh, medical history is something important, then.

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Speaker 3: Yes, definitely.

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Speaker 1: It's it's like when you go to the doctor and

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Speaker 1: they say, you know, do you have family history of xyz?

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Speaker 3: I always have to put adopted. I don't know.

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Speaker 4: And you can see there's a big part of Becky

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Speaker 4: that needs to know that some part of her comes

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Speaker 4: from something decent.

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Speaker 9: Many many people have said that to me, and they

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Speaker 9: want to know what their medical history is, and you know,

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Speaker 9: I think everyone has a right to know that as well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean I really just want to know

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Speaker 1: where I come from. I want to know just my background.

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Speaker 1: I know my life now and I know my family parents,

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Speaker 1: and this is all just beautiful and amazing, but I'd

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Speaker 1: like to know the other half of me.

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Speaker 7: You know.

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Speaker 1: I know Diane Downs is my biological mother, and that

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Speaker 1: is the half of me that I am not proud of,

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Speaker 1: and I would love to find the other half. So

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Speaker 1: when I was eighteen, I was able to order my

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Speaker 1: original birth certificate and that was the real answer that

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Speaker 1: was Oh, my gosh, it's actually true. There's no denying

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Speaker 1: it at that point because Diane Down's, well, Elizabeth Diane Downs,

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Speaker 1: was listed as my biological mother, but there was no

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Speaker 1: mention of a father.

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Speaker 9: And that's very common that there's just a big blank

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Speaker 9: for the father. Very common, you know, in all time

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Speaker 9: periods and in all places, really, And I agree with

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Speaker 9: what you're saying about the aspect of taking back control

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Speaker 9: in a sense in terms of what you can get

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Speaker 9: from documents, that varies from state to state, from country

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Speaker 9: to country. That varies a lot. But what doesn't vary

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Speaker 9: is the fact that whatever you might get from adoption

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Speaker 9: papers or from hearsay, from what somebody may be able

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Speaker 9: to tell you is simply something that is very difficult

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Speaker 9: to corroborate, in fact, impossible to corroborate without that DNA evidence.

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Speaker 4: Michelle's believe is that documents can sometimes have false information,

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Speaker 4: but DNA evidence is more or less irrefutable.

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Speaker 9: I always say that with this, while I want to

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Speaker 9: know everything that it's possible to know about the adoption

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Speaker 9: papers and the hearsay evidence, I always follow the DNA.

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Speaker 9: Always put the DNA first, and I don't let that

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Speaker 9: other evidence the documentary evidence or the hearsay evidence cloud

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Speaker 9: my judgment and lead to confirmation bias because that information

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Speaker 9: can always be wrong or falsely given. The DNA, however,

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Speaker 9: if followed correctly, will lead to the truth. And you'll

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Speaker 9: hear people say a lot things like DNA doesn't lie,

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Speaker 9: human beings do. And while that is very generally true,

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Speaker 9: it's also quite an overused and oversimplified saying, because a

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Speaker 9: DNA results on their own can be misinterpreted at times,

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Speaker 9: in that if you don't know what you're doing with them,

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Speaker 9: and you're trying to find an unknown father, you could

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Speaker 9: misinterpret the DNA matches and end up identifying the wrong

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Speaker 9: man or several wrong men. I've seen that happen before.

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Speaker 9: Tister is looking for answers that hit upon someone with

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Speaker 9: a similar name to one given in an adoption document,

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Speaker 9: or they perhaps message a match who says, oh, I

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Speaker 9: think it could be my dad's cousin, and people get

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Speaker 9: taken along in the wave of that, and when somebody

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Speaker 9: who understands the DNA looks at it properly realizes that

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Speaker 9: the DNA doesn't support that conclusion of it being that man.

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Speaker 9: So it's a bit more complicated than simply saying DNA

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Speaker 9: will give you the truth. DNA doesn't lie. That is true,

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Speaker 9: but at the same time, it has to be worked

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Speaker 9: with correctly in order to get to the correct answer.

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Speaker 2: DNA is a very scientific way of going about a

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Speaker 2: very emotional process. There's no denying that your clients and

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Speaker 2: Becky here are absolutely going to be subjected to strong

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Speaker 2: emotions about this. And then also there's questions about when

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Speaker 2: you find Becky's father, what do we do with that information,

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Speaker 2: Because I've read different reports from Diane downs herself where

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Speaker 2: she has said the father knows he's the father, he's

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Speaker 2: a dear friend of mine, and so there's that and

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Speaker 2: the reports, and then Becky's heard other things.

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Speaker 1: Oh, there's so many stories circling around my biological father.

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Speaker 1: I've heard that he doesn't know that he's the father.

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Speaker 1: I've heard that he has fought for me when I

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Speaker 1: was born to keep custody. I heard that he was

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Speaker 1: a reporter during the case. I also heard that he

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Speaker 1: was worked at the mail office with Diane. And then

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Speaker 1: I also heard it was just some guy that was

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Speaker 1: a husband of her cellmate. I mean, there's just so

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Speaker 1: many stories. I would really love to just find that

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Speaker 1: one answer.

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Speaker 4: And there's also the possibility that he's aware of who

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Speaker 4: he is and simply doesn't have any desire to be involved.

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Speaker 1: That's something that I am worried about too, because I

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Speaker 1: have been so out there, you know, I've been open

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Speaker 1: about who I am, and if he had wanted to

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Speaker 1: contact me, I've been in the media for ten years now,

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Speaker 1: you know, So why hasn't he My fear is that

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Speaker 1: maybe he has passed away, or he doesn't want to

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Speaker 1: be found, or he just doesn't know.

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Speaker 9: It's a very tough thing to do, and you have

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Speaker 9: to go into it understanding that it's going to bring

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Speaker 9: up an awful lot of emotion. You have to have

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Speaker 9: a good support network on hand, and you might want

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Speaker 9: to even consider professional support, counseling and that kind of

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Speaker 9: thing to help through the process in terms of when

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Speaker 9: you get to that point, if you get to that point,

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Speaker 9: because not all cases are solvable, or at least not

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Speaker 9: all cases are immediately solvable. Some take weeks, some take months,

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Speaker 9: some take years, and depending on the ethnicity of the

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Speaker 9: man in question, sometime there are some cases that will

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Speaker 9: take years. Yet because if he's of an ethnicity, say

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Speaker 9: that there isn't a society that tends to DNA test.

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Speaker 9: Then that makes life a lot more difficult, because if

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Speaker 9: you don't have the matches to work with, you can't

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Speaker 9: identify the man on the end of it. But having

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Speaker 9: said all that, if you get to that point you

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Speaker 9: identify a person. First off, you might have a number

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Speaker 9: of candidates. You know, the DNA might be pointing to

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Speaker 9: a particular family, say, but there might be three brothers,

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Speaker 9: or you might only be able to say, well, it's

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Speaker 9: one of these brothers, or it's one of their first cousins,

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Speaker 9: it's one of these five men, for instance. And the

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Speaker 9: only way to get to the bottom of which one

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Speaker 9: of the five is is target testing. On those lines,

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Speaker 9: anyone who DNA tests, they can find shops and surprises.

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Speaker 9: They can find some close ancestors aren't who they believe

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Speaker 9: them to be, so for instance, finding out your father's

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Speaker 9: not your father, or your grandfather wasn't your grandfather. These

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Speaker 9: things can happen. Also, they might find that they have

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Speaker 9: close relatives they didn't know existed, like say Becky testing

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Speaker 9: and showing up on somebody's list. She could be a

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Speaker 9: close relative, a half sibling, a first cousin they never

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Speaker 9: knew existed. So in terms of contacting people, in most

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Speaker 9: cases you're going to have several candidates and you might

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Speaker 9: have to narrow things down to the right one. But

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Speaker 9: if you do know exactly who it is, then there

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Speaker 9: are a number of prevailing ideas on who should make

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Speaker 9: the contact and how that contact should be made.

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Speaker 4: It's clear that for Becky this whole process is going

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Speaker 4: to be extremely emotional. It's not only her own discoveries

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Speaker 4: that she's concerned about, but also the effect it might

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Speaker 4: have on the people who raised her and took care

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Speaker 4: of her.

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Speaker 3: Also.

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Speaker 4: At this point, Becky's could be whatever she imagines him

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Speaker 4: to be, but once she knows, whatever fantasy or vision

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Speaker 4: she has might be crushed.

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Speaker 1: There's so many aspects to it that, you know, I

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Speaker 1: don't want to hurt my adopted parents because I do

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Speaker 1: love them. And then there's the fact that I am

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Speaker 1: on this journey that I never thought I was going

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Speaker 1: to go on. I found Diane and I didn't want

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Speaker 1: to know anymore. And now there's this search for finding

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Speaker 1: in the other half. And I've always been able just

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Speaker 1: to pretend that my biological dad's an amazing person that

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Speaker 1: he loves me, and that I don't know some great

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Speaker 1: person that hasn't done anything wrong and is a positive

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Speaker 1: person in society. But the reality is I don't know,

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Speaker 1: and he may not be a positive person. He may

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Speaker 1: not be the person that I thought he was my

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Speaker 1: whole life.

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Speaker 9: Absolutely, Yeah, as I say that, this is not a

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Speaker 9: comfortable thing to do, and it's not an easy thing

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Speaker 9: to do, and it can be emotionally training, and there

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Speaker 9: can be times where client has to step back and

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Speaker 9: so you know, this is taking over my life and

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Speaker 9: I need a break from it for a while. And

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Speaker 9: I think anyone if they get to that point, then

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Speaker 9: they need to take that break from it, if they're

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Speaker 9: getting scared about getting close to the truth and things

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Speaker 9: like that. And that's a really really important point when

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Speaker 9: you're doing something like this. It's not just about identifying someone.

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Speaker 9: It's the whole range of emotions and how that person

435
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,240
Speaker 9: is feeling at any given point in the process is

436
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Speaker 9: extremely important and has to be taken on board. And

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Speaker 9: I completely understand what Becky is saying about having this

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00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:40,119
Speaker 9: fantasy about this great person in society that while she

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Speaker 9: doesn't know that can remain intact. But at the same time,

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Speaker 9: there's that gnawing away because of not knowing. Clients who

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00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:53,440
Speaker 9: have found out things about their birth parents that they

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00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,359
Speaker 9: didn't expect and that they found very tough to deal

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Speaker 9: with that because they had built up an image of

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00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,919
Speaker 9: a person that didn't exist in essence, that wasn't the reality.

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Speaker 9: And others of course have been pleasantly surprised by what

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Speaker 9: they found. It's every single case is so individual, and

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Speaker 9: there's just no way to generalize about any of this

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Speaker 9: at all.

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Speaker 4: Michelle explained to Becky and me in depth about how

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Speaker 4: the process will work. Once Becky sends in her sample

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00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 4: and receives her profile, Michelle will wade through all of

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00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:29,440
Speaker 4: the potential DNA relatives and form a complex family tree,

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Speaker 4: gradually forming the branches that directly connect Becky to anyone

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00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:35,439
Speaker 4: else in the database who may hold clues to her

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Speaker 4: father's identity.

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Speaker 9: I want to have that maternal side as reference, so

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Speaker 9: you want the maternal tree, but just as good, in fact,

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00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 9: even better than having the maternal tree as well, is

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Speaker 9: having a close maternal relatives test that the closest that

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00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:52,920
Speaker 9: you can test, and when you're trying to solve a mystery,

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Speaker 9: I want to just be working on the pertinent matches,

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00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 9: the paternal matches, and if a maternal relatives can tell

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Speaker 9: even better because everyone that matches them as well, I

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Speaker 9: can just eliminate them. I can put them in a

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Speaker 9: group maternal and I can just put them to one side.

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Speaker 9: And the people that don't match your uncle are the

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Speaker 9: people I really want to look at because they're going

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00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:16,359
Speaker 9: to be on the paternal side. So actually your uncle

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Speaker 9: testing is something I would hugely recommend in this situation.

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Speaker 2: Awesome, amazing, thank you Michelle for taking the time to

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Speaker 2: speak with Becky and I.

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00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:28,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, Michelle, thank you so much.

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Speaker 4: Thankfully James did in fact submit his DNA, so hopefully

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00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 4: Michelle will in fact be able to find a complete

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00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,640
Speaker 4: picture of Becky's maternal line which will not only help

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00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 4: begin the search for her paternal lineage, but also provide

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Speaker 4: Becky the conclusive confirmation that she is in fact Diane's daughter,

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Speaker 4: despite Diane's recent claims to the contrary. All that remains

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Speaker 4: now is to wait for the results.

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Speaker 1: And it's that big web where there's so many more things,

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00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 1: which is the reason that I have never done DNA

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00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 1: Testine have been a little bit worried about how deep

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00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 1: it goes.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's good. We need to know. You know my.

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00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,439
Speaker 1: Heritage, and you know what health problems run in the family.

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Speaker 1: But I've never been ready to find my biological father

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00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 1: until now.

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00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:18,360
Speaker 2: Well I can see how emotional that I've I've been

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00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:23,119
Speaker 2: thinking about your process and how we've were parallel and

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00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,880
Speaker 2: different in these ways. Like I told Michelle, just the

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00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 2: fact that I know who my mom is and I've

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00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 2: never had to fantasize about who she is. But she

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00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 2: said it so well, like, yeah, what do you do

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00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:37,399
Speaker 2: with that fantasy if it's not real? If the father

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00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,119
Speaker 2: that you painted in your mind. I mean, this is

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00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 2: a big part of your structure and your history. This

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00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 2: is ingrained and how you've been able to formulate who

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Speaker 2: you are as a person.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, luckily I had my adopted parents.

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Speaker 1: And I've always said, you know that blood doesn't my

501
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 1: blood in my veins may be somebody else's.

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Speaker 3: But well, let me think about that.

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00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 1: Getics that I have don't make me who I am.

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00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:09,159
Speaker 1: You know, there's that nature versus nurture concept. And I

505
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 1: was raised right. I was raised with good family ethics

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00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 1: and values and morals, and you know, I think my

507
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 1: genetics have played a part in a lot of the

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00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:23,160
Speaker 1: things that I've done. But even if my biological father

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00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,879
Speaker 1: is somebody that doesn't live up to that fantasy, I

510
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,560
Speaker 1: think that I'll be okay because I have that strong

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Speaker 1: family structure.

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Speaker 4: It's taken Becky a long time to reach the point

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Speaker 4: where she's prepared to accept the idea that her biological

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00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 4: father is out there. It could potentially be located thanks

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00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,719
Speaker 4: to DNA, and what that will ultimately mean for her

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00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 4: sense of identity remains to be seen, along with the

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00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 4: uncertainty that he's even willing to cooperate or come forward.

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Speaker 4: On the next episode of Happy Face Presents to Face

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00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 4: Diane Down's trial, we explore her aspects of Diane's trial,

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00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 4: as some of her bizarre behavior leading up to and

521
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 4: during the trial, as well as a strange letter she

522
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 4: wrote to our attorney after us all over. Ben Bolan

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00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 4: is our executive producer, Melissa Moore is our co executive producer.

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00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,959
Speaker 4: Maya Cole is our primary producer. Paul Decand is our

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00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 4: supervising producer. Sam T. Garnian is our researcher, and Matt

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00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 4: Riddle is our story editor. Featured music by dream Tent

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Speaker 4: Happy Face presents to Face as a production of iHeartRadio