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Speaker 1: radio dot com. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I'm hoping

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Speaker 1: the Lord will let me live until we find the

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Speaker 1: person who took my daughter Rosie Tapia was six years

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Speaker 1: old when she was kidnapped and sexually assaulted. Her body

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Speaker 1: was found several hours later in a canal off the

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Speaker 1: Jordan River. A few days after Rosie's passing, there was

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Speaker 1: items that were left on her graveside, so I just

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Speaker 1: gathered them up and took them home. One of those

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Speaker 1: items was a Barbie doll. Coalition members say they have

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Speaker 1: reasons to believe this may be a valuable clue, but

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Speaker 1: did not share what those were. It's a Sweethearts Barbie

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Speaker 1: that was manufactured in nineteen ninety four. They did say

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Speaker 1: that two possible persons of interest had been identified who

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Speaker 1: had some fixation with Barbies, who left a vintage Barbie

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Speaker 1: doll on a six year old little girl's grave. An

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Speaker 1: unsolved attack and murder. I mean it. See Grace, this

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Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. First

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Speaker 1: of all, before I go to John Limley, Crime online

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Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter. Also with me, doctor Bethany Marshall

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Speaker 1: and director of the Cold Case Research Institoot Cheryl McCollum.

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Speaker 1: To Daryl Cohen, veteran criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor, Daryl,

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Speaker 1: why can't some criminals help themselves. Who else would go

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Speaker 1: and leave a barbie doll on this baby's grave, a

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Speaker 1: little girl that was raped and murdered, and then some

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Speaker 1: pervy dude shows up and puts a barbie doll on

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Speaker 1: her grave. What's with your clients, Daryl Cohen? I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's just like going back to look at the scene

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Speaker 1: of the crime, or taunting a victim with hang up

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Speaker 1: calls on the phone after you attack, then somebody goes

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Speaker 1: back to her grave. To me, it's a desecration. Daryl, Well,

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Speaker 1: I agree, but Nancy, maybe be very clear. It's not

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Speaker 1: my client, and I don't like representing people like that.

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Speaker 1: But having said that, and Bethany is going to be,

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Speaker 1: oh wait, I'm sorry. You've never represented to day that

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Speaker 1: I don't like representing people like that. I clearly have

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Speaker 1: represented people charged with murder, some are actually guilty, some

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Speaker 1: are not. But why would they go back? They go

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Speaker 1: back because they're taunting. They have some in there's something

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Speaker 1: in their psychic This is really want to get caught,

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Speaker 1: and they're taunting the public. They're taunting law enforcement, trying

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Speaker 1: to show that I am actually smarter than they are,

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Speaker 1: I am bigger than they are, and they'll never catch me,

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Speaker 1: but they sort of want to be caught regardless because

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Speaker 1: they love the publicity. These are sick people. Well another thing, Daryl,

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Speaker 1: when a defendant, in this case, a child predator and

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Speaker 1: killer does that, it's like a fixation And I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: need a shrink on this, doctor Bethany Marshall. But Daryl Cohen,

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Speaker 1: the evidence that you can obtain from the Barbie doll.

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Speaker 1: I know it sounds crazy, but it's a vintage Barbie doll?

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Speaker 1: Who has one of those? I mean my sister had some.

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Speaker 1: But when I was a little cut all their heads off.

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Speaker 1: That was a scene. Let me tell you that when

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Speaker 1: she came home and all the heads were gone. But

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Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen, who has the vintage Barbie? Who would know

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Speaker 1: where the grave is? Who would go to the grave

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Speaker 1: and then keep it a secret? Like if this was

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Speaker 1: a little a friend from a family that knew her,

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Speaker 1: they would have told the victim's family, Oh, Susie wants

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Speaker 1: to go and put her doll on Rosie's grave. You

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Speaker 1: know when people leave items, sentimental items at grave sites.

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Speaker 1: But this was not someone the family knew, Daryl. No,

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Speaker 1: it sounds to me very much like someone who's taunting

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Speaker 1: someone who's going to leave his or her DNA on

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Speaker 1: that Barbie doll, someone that's giving a clue, even if

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Speaker 1: it's designed to throw people off. But absolutely, you're right.

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Speaker 1: I vintage Barbie doll number one is probably expensive number two.

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Speaker 1: It's showing that I know what's going on, and you

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Speaker 1: law enforcement or a bunch of idiots, but they're going

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Speaker 1: to find in all likelihood that law enforcements ultimately going

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Speaker 1: to find them. Loki. You know, it reminds me a

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Speaker 1: little bit off to Sheryl McCullin, director of the Coal

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Speaker 1: Case Research Institute. You know, at BTK buying torture and kill,

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Speaker 1: he would dress dolls up like his victims. Do you

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Speaker 1: remember that, Cheryl? Yeah, I do, indeed. And it's funny

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Speaker 1: you said that, because let me tell you what I

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Speaker 1: noticed about this Barbie doll. There's an injury at her neck.

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Speaker 1: There's a little hole right at her neck, and the

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Speaker 1: foot of the barbie doll looks like something had chewed

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Speaker 1: on it. In a way. The barbie is clean, the

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Speaker 1: bows are still in the hair, so it's not like

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Speaker 1: this doll has been out in the weather or found

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Speaker 1: in the yard after somebody was played with it and

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Speaker 1: discarded it. It looked like it was straight out of

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Speaker 1: the box new except for those two things that stuck

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Speaker 1: out to me. The other thing that we need to

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Speaker 1: keep in mind, Nancy, this was not a vintage of Barbie.

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Speaker 1: The Barbie doll was found in two thousand and five,

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Speaker 1: days after her funeral. Her mama found it. The Barbie

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Speaker 1: was done, you know, I think in nineteen ninety four

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Speaker 1: they said, so it was a new dollar. So it's

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Speaker 1: vintage now, but at the time it was a new doll.

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Speaker 1: That's significant. That's a significant fact. Who left a Barbie

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Speaker 1: doll on Rosy Tapy's grid? That's the big question. Investigators

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Speaker 1: are begging the public for information after a little six

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Speaker 1: year old Rosie was found raped and murdered. Utah Coal

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Speaker 1: Case Coalition has a rain for DNA evidence to be

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Speaker 1: gathered from the doll. That doll found on Rosie's grave

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Speaker 1: at Salt Lake City Cemetery after her burial. But back

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Speaker 1: to the crime itself, Let's go all the way back

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Speaker 1: to August thirteen. That year, somebody removed a screen from

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Speaker 1: the window on Rosie's family ground floor apartment and took

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Speaker 1: Rosie away her body found in a canal off the

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Speaker 1: Jordan River. To John Linley, Crime online dot Com investigative reporter,

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Speaker 1: let's go back to the beginning. What happened Nancy. August

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Speaker 1: thirteenth was a Sunday, and it was in the wee

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Speaker 1: hours of the morning that louieen Tapia went into her

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Speaker 1: children's bedrooms to make sure they were all tucked in

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Speaker 1: and sleeping soundly. Louie first checked her twins, both boys

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Speaker 1: both sons, were sound asleep in their beds, so she

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Speaker 1: heads to her daughter, Rosie's room. At first, Luien thinks

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Speaker 1: her eyes are playing tricks on her, but she soon

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Speaker 1: realizes that no, her daughter is not in her bed.

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Speaker 1: Before Louien even has a chance to think of much

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Speaker 1: more logical explanations like she's gone to the bathroom or

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Speaker 1: snuck downstairs, she notices a couple of things that make

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Speaker 1: matters much much worse. Rosie's curtains are pulled back, the

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Speaker 1: blinds are tossed to the side, and the window is

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Speaker 1: wide open. Her daughter is gone, completely vanished. Daryl, you

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Speaker 1: heard the description of the room. What does that tell

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Speaker 1: you about the killer? Well, it tells me that the

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Speaker 1: killer knew that this child was in there. It tells

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Speaker 1: me the killer had a previous history of at least

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Speaker 1: viewing the child, whether it was a male or a female.

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Speaker 1: It tells me they knew when to come in because

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Speaker 1: the child would be sleeping, the family would be basically asleep,

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Speaker 1: and everything would be quiet. Would be very easy to

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Speaker 1: sneak in, grabbed this child and go. Tell me one

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Speaker 1: more time. John Lemley, Crime Online investigative reporter where this

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Speaker 1: and all other breaking crime and justice news can be found. John,

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Speaker 1: let me tell me again about the condition of the ram.

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Speaker 1: Of course, most importantly, Rosie is not in her bed,

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Speaker 1: She's gone. The curtains are pulled back, the blinds are

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Speaker 1: tossed to the side, and the window is left completely open.

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Speaker 1: To Cheryl McCollum, director of the Coal Case Research Institute, Cheryl,

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Speaker 1: that tells me a lot. What about you, absolutely, Nincy,

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Speaker 1: This whole scene should tell you a lot. The fact

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Speaker 1: that the child was killed so quickly tells you a lot.

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Speaker 1: We all know in child a Dutching cases, when the

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Speaker 1: child is killed within three hours, it's normally a stranger,

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Speaker 1: and it's norly somebody that will attack and killing him

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Speaker 1: a new leading the Rosie Tapia murderer for twenty three years.

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Speaker 1: Her murder remains unsolved. The six year old was taken

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Speaker 1: from her home. Her body he later found near a

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Speaker 1: canal in Salt Lake City. But ABC force News has

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Speaker 1: learned of a tip that could help bring the family

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Speaker 1: justice after more than two decades. Behind every crime, there's

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Speaker 1: a story and the truth matters. Here's ABC four Senior

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Speaker 1: Crime and Punishment correspondent Marquis Ortiz with the Justice Files.

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Speaker 1: The tip comes from a man who wants to remain anonymous.

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Speaker 1: It's very surprising, even to the Luien top up. Rosie's

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Speaker 1: mother and the police find this credible. It could turn

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Speaker 1: this investigation in a whole new direction. It's the early

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Speaker 1: morning hours of August thirteenth, nineteen ninety five. A man

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Speaker 1: who wants to remain anonymous, is standing outside his home.

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Speaker 1: He saw a white pickup truck parked near the bridge

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Speaker 1: by the canal leave and as he did that, a

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Speaker 1: kid come walking down the sidewalk. And what I noticed

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Speaker 1: about him when he come under the light was the

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Speaker 1: he had on dNaM pants, but from about the knees

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Speaker 1: down they were dark are colored, and from the knees

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Speaker 1: up they weren't that dark. The man says, the team

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Speaker 1: came in his direction and got within three feet of him.

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Speaker 1: That's when he looked down at the sidewalk and when

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Speaker 1: he come walking by me, the sidewalk was wet, but

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Speaker 1: when he walked by me, I realized his pants were wet.

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Speaker 1: That is highly significant what happened to six year old

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Speaker 1: Rosie taken out of her home, horrifically assaulted her body.

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Speaker 1: Her tiny body found in a nearby canal. It's very

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Speaker 1: significant that a person was seen. A man was seen

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Speaker 1: nearby and his clothes were wet. To John Linley, Crime

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Speaker 1: online dot Com investigative reporter, what about it? What do

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Speaker 1: we know about this tip? The tip that we were

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Speaker 1: just hearing from our friends at KTVXTV. It was Marcus

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Speaker 1: Ortiz speaking with a man who insisted he remained anonymous,

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Speaker 1: but that the day baby Rosie goes missing, he sees

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Speaker 1: a white pickup truck part near the bridge by that

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Speaker 1: very same canal. They're in Salt Lake City. He sees

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Speaker 1: the man in the pickup leaving and as he did that,

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Speaker 1: a guy walked by and the guy's pants were soaked.

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Speaker 1: John Limley, I feel like this case has gotten stalled somehow.

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Speaker 1: Who's working in the case. There is a new group

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Speaker 1: called the Utah Cold Case Coalition. They've held a press

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Speaker 1: conference recently and they're the ones that share the news

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Speaker 1: about that Barbie doll left at the grave site. The coalition,

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Speaker 1: by the way, made up of attorneys, private investigators, public

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Speaker 1: relations professionals, and other businesses. All of them are working

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Speaker 1: for free. Representatives from the group say that two possible

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Speaker 1: persons of interest have been identified who had some fixation

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Speaker 1: with Barbies. That doll again a Sweetheart Barbie manufactured in

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety four. A new cutting edge DNA extraction method

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Speaker 1: is being used on the doll to try to identify

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Speaker 1: who it came from. Now, the group plans to wait

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Speaker 1: at least four to six weeks to move forward with

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Speaker 1: the analysis because they are working very closely and sort

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Speaker 1: of taking the lead from police on the investigation. Does

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Speaker 1: a Barbie Doll Sweetheart edition left on a grave of

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Speaker 1: six year old little rape and murder victim shed new

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Speaker 1: light on a cold case? To doctor Bethany Marshall, l

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Speaker 1: a psychoanalyst, a fixation on Barbie Dolls. I didn't know

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Speaker 1: that such a thing existed. Now I know that there's

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Speaker 1: a guy who has had multiple plastic surgeries I'm talking

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Speaker 1: thirty forty or more to make himself look like the

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Speaker 1: Kin doll. And there's a woman who has had a

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Speaker 1: number of surgeries to make herself look like the Barbie doll,

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Speaker 1: the classic Barbie. But what is that as there's got

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Speaker 1: to be a name for it, when you're obsessed with

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Speaker 1: Barbie dolls. Well, Nancy, I actually think it's pretty straightforward.

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Speaker 1: Paedophiles who are preoccupied with children are preoccupied with the

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Speaker 1: things of childhood, right, So not only is whoever abducted

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Speaker 1: poor little Rosie was he preoccupied with her? But probably

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Speaker 1: anything that reminded him of childhood, including dolls. Who plays

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Speaker 1: with Barbie dolls? Little girls? Who did he abduct a

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Speaker 1: little girl? This? You know what creeps me out most

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Speaker 1: about this? I was thinking about Jeffrey Dahmer, who was

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Speaker 1: fixated on his victims even after they were dead. Remember,

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Speaker 1: he was fixated on them even after they were in

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Speaker 1: a vat of acid and a pot of boiling water.

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Speaker 1: The fixation did not die. I once had a patient

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Speaker 1: who was molested by a priest. The priest started when

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Speaker 1: he was six or seven years old. It continued throughout adolescence.

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Speaker 1: That my patient finally stood up to the priest. When

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Speaker 1: he was twenty six years old, the priest still stalked

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Speaker 1: and harassed him. It wasn't until the priest died that

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Speaker 1: he finally stopped thinking about my patients. So these preoccupations

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Speaker 1: can go on forever and in very strange and bizarre ways.

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Speaker 1: So I would in terms of trying to crack this case,

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Speaker 1: I would look at anybody in the community who has

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Speaker 1: a preoccupation on or a fixation with a child and

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Speaker 1: with the names of childhood, and I think that will

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Speaker 1: provide the richest clues. Well, believe it or not. To

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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCullum, obsession with Barbies as not as uncommon as

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Speaker 1: I thought it was before I started working this case.

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Speaker 1: There's one thirty three year old mail. He has very

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Speaker 1: minimalist decor in his home except for the three thousand

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Speaker 1: dolls he has up. But that guy has a professional

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Speaker 1: interest in toys because he's a consumer trend director of strategy.

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Speaker 1: Okay is Barbie collection began when he was just thirteen

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Speaker 1: and he bought the quote great shape Barbie in a

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Speaker 1: turquoise spandex gym outfit with striped leg warmers. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you recall that one. I only had one Barbie.

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Speaker 1: I think I had a midge. I also killed them.

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Speaker 1: They didn't keep their heads very long. I just didn't

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Speaker 1: play with dolls that much. I don't know what that says.

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Speaker 1: I'm afraid to actually ask doctor Bethany, so i'll I'll

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Speaker 1: just let that sleeping dog lie. But Cheryl McCollum, the

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Speaker 1: obsession with barbies, which I thought was extremely obscure, Apparently

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Speaker 1: there's more of them out there than I knew about. Cheryls.

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Speaker 1: I can't agree with doctor Marshall anymore. She is absolutely

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Speaker 1: on the money, and I'm gonna disagree with mister Cohen

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Speaker 1: or something. Predators, sexual predators of children go back to

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Speaker 1: the Crown scene to relive those memories. They enjoy it,

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Speaker 1: just like me. And you make drive past the old

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Speaker 1: high school and reminisce about the old stadium and things

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Speaker 1: like that. They're gonna. I never do that. I never

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Speaker 1: do that. Ever. Occasionally, when we're in making we drive

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Speaker 1: by my old high school. The Dwins go. Isn't that

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Speaker 1: where you went to my high school? I'm like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was awesome, and I keep going, I mean, I

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Speaker 1: know I don't do that that much. And what does

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Speaker 1: that mean, doctor Bethany, While I've got a shrink, I

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Speaker 1: just don't think back on it that much. Well, it

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Speaker 1: depends on whether or not you were fond of those memories, right,

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Speaker 1: I think there were great memories. I don't have bad memories.

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Speaker 1: I'm just right now. You have a rich, full life.

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Speaker 1: You do not need to go backwards in time. Is

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Speaker 1: that what you create? Meaning? But soo Cheryl's crap. I

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Speaker 1: think that it's not that his perpetrator is taunting the police.

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Speaker 1: He's still fixated on this little girl and he is

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Speaker 1: reliving the crime. This was the glory day. This was

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Speaker 1: the moment of glory where he actually broke into her room,

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Speaker 1: snatched her, and had his way with her. And in

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Speaker 1: the absence of having access to more victims, he's going

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Speaker 1: to keep thinking about it, fantasizing about it. It's probably

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Speaker 1: a part of a masturbatory routine. He probably has pictures

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Speaker 1: of pornography on his computer. This is how this man

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Speaker 1: or woman, but most likely man, lives his life in

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Speaker 1: a fantasy world. Guys, we are talking about a six

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Speaker 1: year old little girl, Rosie Tapia taken out of her home,

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Speaker 1: her room in disarray. Nobody heard anything that is not uncommon, And,

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Speaker 1: as Cheryl McCollum was stating earlier, if it's a stranger

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Speaker 1: on child abduction, typically over seventy percent of the time

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Speaker 1: that child is dead in the first three hours, that

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Speaker 1: stat jumps up into the eighties. At the end of

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Speaker 1: twenty four hours, Rosie was found dead, having been raped,

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Speaker 1: her body just thrown into a canal, a body of water.

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Speaker 1: We want answers. We now learn that someone places a

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Speaker 1: Barbie doll on her grave. I want to know who? Hi?

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grays here? Have you ever Googled yourself, your neighbors,

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00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:49,399
Speaker 1: somebody at work? A crush? Fifty seven percent of Americans

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00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:52,679
Speaker 1: admit to keeping an eye on their own online reputation.

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Speaker 1: Forty six admit to using the Internet to look up

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Speaker 1: somebody from their past. But Google and Facebook the tip

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00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:02,480
Speaker 1: of the eye sparg when it comes to finding personal information.

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00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:06,800
Speaker 1: There's an innovative new website called Truthfinder. It's now revealing

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00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:11,399
Speaker 1: the full scoop on millions of Americans. Truthfinder can search

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00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,560
Speaker 1: through hundreds of millions of public records in a matter

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00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:19,520
Speaker 1: of minutes. Truthfinder members can literally begin searching in seconds

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00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:24,399
Speaker 1: for sensitive data like criminal traffic, arrest records. Before you

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00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:27,159
Speaker 1: bring someone new into your life and around the people

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00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:33,199
Speaker 1: you care for your children, consider using Truthfinder. What you

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00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:37,120
Speaker 1: find may astound you. Go to truthfinder dot com forward

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Speaker 1: slash Nancy right away to start searching truthfinder dot com

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00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:48,600
Speaker 1: forward slash Nancy Truthfinder dot Com forward slash Nancy. Find

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Speaker 1: the truth crime stories with Nancy Grace. Welcome to the

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Speaker 1: home of Stanley Colright, whose collection of more than two

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Speaker 1: thousand Barbie dolls fills up four whole rooms. Stanley, also

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Speaker 1: known as the Barbie Man, has been building his incredible

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Speaker 1: collection for sixteen years, and now it's thought to be

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Speaker 1: worth a staggering eighty thousand dollars. Hi. I'm Stanley Colright,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to my Barbie collection. Stanley Scal's websites in

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Speaker 1: the yard sales to build his collections, spending up to

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Speaker 1: thirty thousand dollars per year. This is where all the

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Speaker 1: dolls are held in the wonderful museum. There's two thousand

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Speaker 1: Barbies in this room alone. This is the very first

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Speaker 1: Barbie that I purchase is the nineteen ninety two Happy holiday, Barbie.

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Speaker 1: You are hearing quote I'm addicted to Barbie on Barcraft

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Speaker 1: TV on YouTube. Now, let me make clear that that

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Speaker 1: guy showing us a tour of his Barbie mansion is

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Speaker 1: in no way connected to the Rosy Tapia murder. But

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Speaker 1: what I'm telling you is that there is a fixation

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Speaker 1: on Barbies. You don't believe me. Listen to this. People

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Speaker 1: first come to my place, they just third snapchatting, They

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Speaker 1: just got ah, my god, can I take a picture.

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Speaker 1: My name is Azusa, I'm thirty five years old. I'm

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Speaker 1: obsessed with Barbie. I could go on and on and

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Speaker 1: on with people obsessed with Barbies. To doctor Bethany Marshall,

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Speaker 1: la Psychoana's boy, do I need a shrink? I mean

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Speaker 1: to me, that just sounds like people with too much

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Speaker 1: time on their hands. But I guess the way. I'm

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Speaker 1: obsessed with my twins, my children obsessed with you know.

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Speaker 1: Are their clothes ironed? Is there room clean? Have they

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Speaker 1: finished their homework? Are they handing this assignment in on time?

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Speaker 1: Have they hot had five servings of fruit and vegetables today?

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Speaker 1: Are they getting enough sleep? Have they had this physical checkup?

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Speaker 1: Blah blah, blah, what about piano? What about band? What

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Speaker 1: about I mean, my head's about to blow up. So

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Speaker 1: some would call that an obsession. I guess everybody has

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Speaker 1: something dear to their heart, so I'm not knocking it

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Speaker 1: when they say they have identified two people obsessed with barbies.

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Speaker 1: I mean, clearly a lot of people are obsessed with barbies.

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Speaker 1: I just steal. I keep asking you, Bethany, and you're

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Speaker 1: not really giving me a satisfactory So what is it

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Speaker 1: when people are obsessed with dolls? I would not use

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Speaker 1: the word obsession. I would use the word fetish. The

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Speaker 1: dolls are fetishized. So when somebody has a fetish, like

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Speaker 1: an interest in like a foot, a whip, a chain,

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Speaker 1: a doll, something that other than a full human relationship,

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Speaker 1: it's because that doll, that foot, that object of some

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Speaker 1: emotional or sexual preoccupation, cannot talk back, cannot put you down,

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Speaker 1: cannot degrade you. You have complete control, power, and dominion

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Speaker 1: over that object. A story comes to mind recently of

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Speaker 1: a woman I heard in the news who was preoccupied

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Speaker 1: with collecting dolls of all sorts, but she alienated her

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Speaker 1: own adult daughter because she was uninterested in her daughter.

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Speaker 1: So she was more interested in the things over whom

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Speaker 1: over which she could have control and wouldn't talk back

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Speaker 1: to her, than a real human being, her own child,

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Speaker 1: who had her own personality. And then there was a

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Speaker 1: story twin trending on Twitter a couple months ago, a

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Speaker 1: Japanese man who fell in love with a hologram. And

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Speaker 1: so it was this little girl in a glass bubble,

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Speaker 1: a hologram who looked like a Barbie doll. She had

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Speaker 1: a nipped in waist, big breath, you know, pigtails, big

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Speaker 1: blonde hair. And he had a whole wedding and he

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Speaker 1: carried this, this little hologram and a glass bubb will

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Speaker 1: down the aisle and he called himself that he had

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Speaker 1: what's called digital sexuality, that his sexual interest was in

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Speaker 1: the digital realm, not in the realm of real people.

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Speaker 1: So when you think of people who are preoccupied with

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Speaker 1: Barbie dolls, they only want something that is inhuman, cannot

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Speaker 1: stand up to them, cannot talk back, cannot make them

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Speaker 1: feel bad about themselves, and something over which they have

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Speaker 1: complete power and control. Question, it is possible that a

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Speaker 1: grown adult can be obsessed with dolls for many reasons.

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Speaker 1: It could be a hobby. Why, you know, repairing them,

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Speaker 1: restoring them, repainting their features. Another reason history collectors of

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00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:58,680
Speaker 1: dolls love history and historic dolls, fashion, sewing and costuming, nostalgia,

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00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:06,640
Speaker 1: therapeutic value. I understand dolls can sue psychological needs or voids.

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Speaker 1: People decorate with dolls, parters, celebrity worship, for instance, if

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Speaker 1: the doll is a celebrity doll. I don't see any

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Speaker 1: of those fitting this scenario. Cheryl McCollum. We've got to

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00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:25,919
Speaker 1: retrace that crime scene, Cheryl. Yes, this particular barbie, Nancy

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Speaker 1: is not what you're describing. It's not one of the

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Speaker 1: barbies that had a Bob Mackie out that owned. It's

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Speaker 1: not a holiday barbie. This is not a collector's item.

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Speaker 1: There were other items left at the crime scene along

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00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:42,200
Speaker 1: with this barbie. Whether it was clothing or other toys

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00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 1: or candy, we don't know, but that might be also

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00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 1: a hint. I think we're getting down a rabbit hole

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00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:50,680
Speaker 1: with this barbie. I don't think she holds all the

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00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 1: key everybody thinks they do. If this barbie potentially had

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Speaker 1: the killer's DNA, the police would be using the imbat

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00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,760
Speaker 1: on that doll. The police starts and even this group

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Speaker 1: says we're gonna wait six weeks because the chance is

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00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 1: so expensive. This is not going to change this case.

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Speaker 1: I don't believe people visit. Okay, let's shift away from that.

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Speaker 1: Let's shift off Barbie and back onto the crime scene.

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Speaker 1: Back to John Linley crime online dot Com investigative reporter.

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Speaker 1: Is it true that her brother and sister slept in

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Speaker 1: the same room with her? And what time do we

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Speaker 1: think the kidnap occurred. The kidnapping we think took place

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00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 1: between one am and four am on Sunday, August thirteenth

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Speaker 1: of that year. It's interesting to note that the night

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00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 1: before this is August twelfth, sometime between seven and eight pm,

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Speaker 1: eighteen year old Amelia Tapia looks out her family's apartment

423
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:55,360
Speaker 1: window and sees a man carrying her little sister, Rosie.

424
00:27:55,920 --> 00:28:00,399
Speaker 1: Amelia runs right out, opens the door, grabs Rosie. The

425
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 1: man is wearing sunglasses and a hat. He tells Amelia

426
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,680
Speaker 1: that Rosie had been hurt while playing on the slide,

427
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:11,120
Speaker 1: maybe even kicked in the back. Amelia says thank you,

428
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:15,680
Speaker 1: shuts the door, and immediately starts checking Rosie out. Amelia

429
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 1: lifts Rosie's shirt, asks where she's been hurt. Rosie says,

430
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 1: I didn't get hurt. It dawns on Amelia that the

431
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 1: man actually called Rosie by name, so she asked Rosie,

432
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 1: how in the world did this man you know who

433
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 1: she was? And she said, I don't know. The Topia

434
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 1: children went to bed between nine and nine thirty according

435
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 1: to their mother that night, and again sometime between one

436
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 1: and four am, someone abducted Rosie through that bedroom. I mean,

437
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 1: that can't be just a coincidence. Cheryl McCollum. It's got

438
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 1: to be the same guy. Now, we're only something. That's

439
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 1: what I'm talking about. Not only does it fit the

440
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 1: same description, but her brother the killer sool doing and

441
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 1: told him go back to bed, and the brother later

442
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 1: did the composite drawing of the person that is the

443
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 1: same look of the person the mother spoke to. Not

444
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 1: only did the person know the child's name, he knew

445
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 1: where she lived, and he was hanging out at a playground.

446
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,479
Speaker 1: If that doesn't sound like a pedophile, I don't know

447
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 1: what DA take a Listen to our friends at KTV XTV.

448
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 1: It's been hard these twenty one years. It's been really hard.

449
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 1: Now Salt Lake police learned of a possible lead reviewing

450
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 1: old notes. They've also found new information and are seeking

451
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: help and locating three men that may or may not

452
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 1: be connected to the crime. We have got a statement

453
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 1: of a suspicious individual that actually was seen by our

454
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:54,959
Speaker 1: witness on one of the local television channel stations being interviewed.

455
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 1: They're now requesting all news media video of that time

456
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:02,040
Speaker 1: period to show their witness Police also want to talk

457
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 1: to an African American man who police say was throwing

458
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 1: garbage out at three in the morning. The family hired

459
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 1: a private investigator who now gave police the name of

460
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 1: a person who they claim resembles the composite released years ago.

461
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 1: That one and the picture that they have at this guy,

462
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 1: they look familiar, so that's why they got their attention

463
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 1: on that right now. The family has had their hopes

464
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 1: dashed before whenever there's a new development, but Rosie's mom

465
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 1: says she's willing to write it out. So it does

466
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 1: have set me sometimes because I want her case solved

467
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 1: and I'm hoping one day this will be solved. They're

468
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 1: following this up with additional statements and interviews of the

469
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 1: victims and also witnesses because it's becoming warm a larger

470
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 1: investigation than maybe it was initially one of the avenues

471
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 1: under investigation. Reports the demand was seen hanging around the

472
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 1: apartment playground a man who carried Rosie home Saturday after

473
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 1: she fell off the slide. She said, that guy was

474
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 1: sitting on the bench, is just watching the kids? Why

475
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 1: wait to guy just watch the kids? If he didn't

476
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 1: handle kids, he's probably seen who's gonna hit next. You

477
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 1: are hearing our friends at KSL TV. Why would a

478
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 1: guy just be sitting on a bench watching children if

479
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 1: they weren't one of his children. It reminds me doctor Bethany.

480
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,240
Speaker 1: There's a whole world out there I knew nothing about

481
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 1: until I had the twins. The subculture of play Day

482
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 1: said play activities and play spots. For instance, when I

483
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 1: would take the children to Lego before John David got

484
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 1: too tall to get on the rides. You know the

485
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 1: kinds that are in malls. They don't let adults that

486
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 1: are without children come in. They can't come in. You

487
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:01,960
Speaker 1: have to have a wristband and you have to be

488
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 1: attached to children. And children can't go onto various rides

489
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 1: or in playpians without the consent of their guardian with them.

490
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 1: They don't let single like creepy males by themselves wander

491
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 1: around in there. And there's a reason for that. What

492
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 1: this woman is saying is right. Why would a guy

493
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 1: just be sitting on a bench watching children like a

494
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 1: cat watching a mouse if they don't have a child

495
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 1: out there playing. You know, Unfortunately, Nancy, the types of

496
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 1: protections you're talking about in the mall or at legoland,

497
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 1: there are no such protections in public parks or at

498
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 1: bus stops. And you know, just as a fisherman goes

499
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:52,240
Speaker 1: to a stream, pedophiles go to parks. Pedophiles go to schools,

500
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 1: and we cannot stop them. And this follows such a

501
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 1: classic pattern of the pedophiles sitting on the bench looking

502
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 1: get the children, just like a hunter looked out at

503
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 1: the savannah, waiting for the child that can be picked

504
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 1: off and separated from her family. He felt he had

505
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 1: a special and unique relationship with her. You know, he

506
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 1: returned her back to the family, if I understand the

507
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 1: story correctly. Before then he took her, kidnapped her, abducted her,

508
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 1: and killed her. So his fantasy fixation with her was

509
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 1: going on for a long time before he worked up

510
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 1: the courage to commit the crime. You know another issue

511
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 1: if you look at the statement Cheryl, I don't know

512
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 1: how this taste got so twisted up. The brother Robert,

513
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 1: who was only four at the time when Rosie was abducted,

514
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 1: raped and murdered, says he saw a man he didn't

515
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 1: know in their room that night. The man had a

516
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 1: beard and told him to go back to sleep. Let's

517
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 1: go back to the guy at the part first. So Nancy,

518
00:33:56,240 --> 00:34:00,960
Speaker 1: he invented a reason to take the child up, carry her.

519
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 1: So he's like hugging her, talking to her. No again,

520
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 1: knows where she lives, so he has invented a reason

521
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:13,399
Speaker 1: because she was not her, to touch her, to caress her,

522
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 1: to hold her. That's very disturbing. At that point, I

523
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:21,800
Speaker 1: think is when he made his mind up he was

524
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,360
Speaker 1: going to kidnapp in a cross room. John Limley Crime

525
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 1: online dot Com investigative reporter. It seems to me this

526
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 1: whole case was screwed up and botched at the beginning.

527
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:36,400
Speaker 1: You've got a six year old little girl, Rosie, taken

528
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,799
Speaker 1: out of her room, raped and murdered, her body just

529
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:44,759
Speaker 1: thrown into a canal. You've got a guy watching her

530
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 1: on the playground that day actually picking her up. As

531
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 1: Cheryl said, you've got the little brother giving a description

532
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:56,239
Speaker 1: of a man in his room that night, but they

533
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:59,840
Speaker 1: don't have anybody. If she was raped, there's got to

534
00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:04,840
Speaker 1: be DNA. Have they run it back through the lab

535
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,959
Speaker 1: with heightened DNA technology? I mean, how did this case

536
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 1: go so wrong? John Lemley. Another example is the man

537
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,400
Speaker 1: who we heard at the outset of the program who

538
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 1: saw this young man with wet jeans. He went to

539
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 1: the police station a few years later to describe this

540
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 1: after he saw something on TV about what happened that night,

541
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 1: and he was trying to help assist in creating a

542
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 1: composite of the fellow's face that he saw, and the

543
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 1: policeman kept giving him options that were too old. They were,

544
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 1: in his words, hardened criminal looking faces. And he said, no,

545
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 1: this was a younger person, this was a teenager. And

546
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 1: finally he just got up and left because the police

547
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,320
Speaker 1: were having no part of that. They did not believe

548
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 1: it was a teenager. Another thing you do know, Cheryl McCollum,

549
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,799
Speaker 1: that the little brother, then four, was not asked to

550
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 1: give a composite sketch until years later. Years. It's it's

551
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 1: baffling Nancy. I think the brother and this witness need

552
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:18,400
Speaker 1: to get together and work on the composite with the

553
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 1: same artists, not at the same time, but with the

554
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:24,759
Speaker 1: same artists is critical and at this point they need

555
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 1: to take that composite and they need to make an

556
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:31,359
Speaker 1: age progression. What does he possibly look like? Now, take

557
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 1: a listen. We do know, according to this KSLTV reporter,

558
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 1: that search dogs were brought into the area, but what

559
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,319
Speaker 1: do they find around Dave PM authorities brought in a

560
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 1: team of bloodhounds to try and track down where Rosie

561
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:47,680
Speaker 1: went into the canal. Police suspect the child knew her abductor,

562
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,359
Speaker 1: and right now there are a few suspects, but very

563
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 1: little to go on. A neighbor who lived two floors

564
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 1: above Rosie's window reported hearing a scream yesterday morning, and

565
00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 1: other neighbors say a strange man had brought the girl

566
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 1: home from this playground Saturday night after she fell. I

567
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 1: don't believe it's somebody we know. Hopefully it's not, because

568
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:11,399
Speaker 1: it'd be even more devastated to know that Rosie's death

569
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 1: comes one week after this woman's daughter was abducted and

570
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 1: raped from the same apartment complex. This woman says the

571
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:20,839
Speaker 1: property managers told her to keep it quiet. No, right now,

572
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:23,440
Speaker 1: our main concerns our security. If we're going to have

573
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:25,439
Speaker 1: to live here, I think there should be better either

574
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 1: either better security or more security. Security is now everyone's concerned,

575
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 1: But for Rosie's family, the priority is getting the killer

576
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,400
Speaker 1: in custody. For somebody to do this, he had to

577
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:41,360
Speaker 1: have a sick miner, very sick mind to do something

578
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 1: like this to a six year old girl. Well, John Lemley,

579
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 1: did you think about telling me another little girl had

580
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 1: just been kidnapped and raped in the same apartment complex

581
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:53,720
Speaker 1: and building. That was One of the things that really

582
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,920
Speaker 1: should have maybe prevented this in the first place, is

583
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:03,399
Speaker 1: heightened security after that first event just several days. Hey, hey, hey, hey,

584
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 1: I'm not playing what a could have shotted, John Linley,

585
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCallum, that's the person. That is the person. You

586
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:13,320
Speaker 1: don't have two kidnaps and rapes of two little girls

587
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 1: approximately the same age and the same apartment building within

588
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 1: ten days of each other and it not be the

589
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,840
Speaker 1: same person. They just decided to kill Rosie so they

590
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 1: wouldn't leave behind the witness You and I've said before,

591
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:30,839
Speaker 1: if we can get within ten miles of a similar transaction,

592
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:34,319
Speaker 1: we'd like it within a mile. I can guarantee it's

593
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 1: the same person within the same apartment complex. Good Mortal Manti,

594
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:43,279
Speaker 1: come home. There's no excuse in this person's face not

595
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 1: being everywhere. Take a listen to our friends at k SLTV.

596
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 1: But we knew that it wasn't. We knew that Rosie

597
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,200
Speaker 1: wentn't just climb out of the window at that late

598
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 1: at night and just leave and go throw herself in

599
00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:01,880
Speaker 1: the river. We know sheho but to do that. Rosie

600
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 1: Toppy's sister and family never believed her drowning was accidental.

601
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:09,360
Speaker 1: Her mother discovered Rosie missing just before six am Sunday,

602
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 1: the window of her bedroom open, screen removed. Now. Autopsy

603
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:17,719
Speaker 1: results revealed Rosie was probably sexually assaulted before drowning in

604
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 1: the Jordan River canal, where her body was discovered by

605
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 1: a jogger. It's just so sad because somebody could be

606
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:28,239
Speaker 1: so sick to take a baby from her bloom, from

607
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 1: her security, and do such a run thing to her.

608
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 1: What are we supposed to do? Keep our kids locked up,

609
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:43,480
Speaker 1: our windows locked, our doors locked, put bars on our

610
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 1: window to keep our kids from being stolen and tossed

611
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 1: in a river. If you have information, tipline is anonymous.

612
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 1: Three eight five two five eight three three one three.

613
00:39:56,719 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 1: That's three eight five two eight five three three one

614
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 1: three Nancy Grace Crime Stories, signing off, goodbye friend,