WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: The Death of Kurt Cobain 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:03.560 Thinking Sideways is not brought to you by discrubby piece 0:00:03.600 --> 0:00:06.840 of paper I'm holding. Instead, it's supported by the generous 0:00:06.840 --> 0:00:11.840 donations of our listeners on Patreon. Visit patreon dot com 0:00:12.000 --> 0:00:20.160 slash thinking sideways to learn more and thanks Thinking Sideways. 0:00:20.400 --> 0:00:30.320 I don't think you never know stories of things. We 0:00:30.440 --> 0:00:36.320 simply don't know the answer too. Hey, guys, welcome to 0:00:36.400 --> 0:00:40.920 another episode of Thinking Sideways the podcast. I'm Devin, joined 0:00:40.960 --> 0:00:46.000 as always by Joe and Steve Um. We're gonna not 0:00:46.120 --> 0:00:47.879 even close to solve a mry We're just gonna talk 0:00:47.920 --> 0:00:52.040 about a mystery tonight. It's probably right. No, we're not 0:00:52.040 --> 0:00:53.880 going to solve it. We're going to talk about it. 0:00:54.280 --> 0:00:58.360 The topic tonight is the death of Kurt Cobain. I'm 0:00:58.400 --> 0:01:01.160 not gonna go any further than the before. I stop 0:01:01.240 --> 0:01:05.240 and say, if you suggested this as a listener, you're 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:06.880 not going to hear your name red because there are 0:01:06.920 --> 0:01:09.360 too dang many of you. Yeah, this one's a pretty 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:12.720 popular request, like a lot of people all the time, 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:15.080 Like literally since we started the podcast. Actually, we've been 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:17.720 getting suggestions for this, so finally we decided to tackle it. 0:01:17.720 --> 0:01:20.600 And actually it was because I recently took a trip 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:26.000 to Seattle. We went to the Experienced Music Project Museum, 0:01:26.000 --> 0:01:28.560 which is up in Seattle. What is that again. It's 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:32.720 a museum that's dedicated to music and pop culture. I 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:35.520 hadn't heard of it before, so that's why it's freaking awesome. 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:37.080 We used to go there when I was a kid, 0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:39.280 and like you can like play on instruments and all 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:43.040 that stuff, and um, along with the Hello Kitty exhibit 0:01:43.120 --> 0:01:46.479 that I tweeted some pictures while we were there, Um 0:01:46.560 --> 0:01:50.000 yeah there was one. Yeah, um there was also I 0:01:50.040 --> 0:01:53.720 didn't know that, but there was also an exhibit not exhibition, 0:01:54.000 --> 0:01:58.200 exhibit um about Nirvana and they had all of the 0:01:58.280 --> 0:02:02.080 hit a bunch of Cobain's clothes and some memorabilia and 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:07.200 like letters that he wrote and polaroids and all that stuff. Replica, 0:02:07.360 --> 0:02:10.400 no wax rep clause. No, it was very tastely done. Um. 0:02:10.440 --> 0:02:13.480 And I guess I just started to think about that 0:02:14.000 --> 0:02:17.360 whole You know, you don't think about people as people 0:02:17.400 --> 0:02:20.000 a lot, right, Celebrities You don't really think about that 0:02:20.080 --> 0:02:21.920 so much. But I started thinking about it, and then 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:24.400 I started to think about his death, and then I 0:02:24.520 --> 0:02:26.880 just decided we should do an episode on it. So 0:02:26.919 --> 0:02:29.280 that's a long preamble. You know. One thing that when 0:02:29.400 --> 0:02:32.400 in doing a little research on this is I'm amazed 0:02:32.440 --> 0:02:34.600 at how long it's been since he died. It doesn't 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:38.560 seem Yeah, it seems like a long time because I 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:40.880 remember it. Yeah, I remember it too, but it just 0:02:41.000 --> 0:02:43.360 didn't seem like it was that long ago. Yeah, because 0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:50.120 it wasn't. I mean, I mean, I don't remember it 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:51.640 because I was too young to remember it, but I 0:02:51.680 --> 0:02:54.679 was alive at least. So there's that. Um. And then, 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:58.600 as an additional preamble to this, this is a huge, 0:02:59.080 --> 0:03:02.200 huge case, like huge, lots of research has been done 0:03:02.200 --> 0:03:04.079 on it. And that's not to say that the rest 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:06.160 of the cases we do are not huge, but this 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:10.600 one is extra huge. And I just want to remind 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:13.640 anybody or let people know if they don't know. UM. 0:03:13.639 --> 0:03:17.679 Our podcast is intended as a primary course or an 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:22.120 overview of cases. So there are going to be things 0:03:22.200 --> 0:03:25.600 that we're gonna gloss over or we're gonna omit, or 0:03:26.040 --> 0:03:30.640 that we won't include in the episode. And that's just 0:03:30.680 --> 0:03:33.120 how it is. I'm sorry. Look at the important stuff 0:03:33.320 --> 0:03:35.280 we I mean, I think we do usually get the 0:03:35.320 --> 0:03:39.720 important stuff, but if your only point of context for 0:03:39.760 --> 0:03:43.640 this is like the Soaked in Bleach documentary on Netflix, 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:49.040 or it's only Curtain Courtney also on Netflix, or it's 0:03:49.120 --> 0:03:51.640 only or you've never heard of it. I encourage you 0:03:51.640 --> 0:03:54.880 to do more research because this is not This isn't everything. 0:03:55.120 --> 0:03:59.000 It's the ton out there and it's it's a celebrity. 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:03.440 So therefore the sory is on the scale of reflective 0:04:03.520 --> 0:04:05.640 of the scale of that celebrity, and so that's that's 0:04:05.640 --> 0:04:08.640 why there's so much out there. So I just wanted 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:10.880 to remind people before we get into it there we're 0:04:10.880 --> 0:04:14.000 gonna miss things. Sorry, but we're going to miss things. 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:16.480 I don't think we must do any important things. I 0:04:16.480 --> 0:04:18.640 don't think so either, but I'm sure that. I mean, 0:04:18.640 --> 0:04:21.440 you know, everybody has their favorite detail, so we might 0:04:21.480 --> 0:04:23.120 miss it, and I'm sorry if we do, but we 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:26.960 probably know that we did. Okay, okay, cool labored that 0:04:27.000 --> 0:04:31.080 point long enough. We did, all right. So first off, 0:04:31.320 --> 0:04:33.760 like we did with Bob Marley, I'd like to assume 0:04:33.800 --> 0:04:35.920 that everybody knows who Kurt Cobaine is, but I guess 0:04:36.000 --> 0:04:38.919 I probably can't. Do you get you guys remember the nineties. 0:04:40.480 --> 0:04:45.760 I remember some of the nineties and there was especially 0:04:45.800 --> 0:04:50.000 especially in the Pacific Northwest. The nineties grunge era was 0:04:50.080 --> 0:04:53.320 taking effect, and a large part of that was in 0:04:53.400 --> 0:04:58.799 thanks to a band called Nirvana. You are I'm impressed. 0:04:58.880 --> 0:05:03.720 I'm not actually impressed. You plaid frequently, but thanks. Yeah. Uh. 0:05:04.120 --> 0:05:06.040 But you guys know Nirvana. You know Vana. You just 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:08.640 do if you if you think you don't know who 0:05:08.839 --> 0:05:12.000 Nirvana is, just pause this episode and go look up 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:15.000 Nirvana and like, just listen to any song that comes up, 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:17.520 and you will recognize Nirvana. I was really surprised when 0:05:17.520 --> 0:05:19.400 I was doing the research. I didn't realize they only 0:05:19.400 --> 0:05:22.040 put out three albums as big as they were. For 0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:24.480 some reason in my mind it was I figured it 0:05:24.520 --> 0:05:26.840 was a half dozen. Well that's the interesting part, right. 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:30.400 They became so ubiquitous so fast. It was just really 0:05:31.040 --> 0:05:33.839 it was insane. I mean, as soon as the radio 0:05:33.880 --> 0:05:36.480 picked up smells like teen Spirit that they just became 0:05:37.279 --> 0:05:40.159 And almost every song off of their albums were hits. 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:42.359 You know. It wasn't like one of those albums you 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:44.800 pick up now where you recognize one song. It was 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:48.839 just all of them are popular songs. So Kurt Cobain 0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:52.240 was the frontman for Nirvana, and there's a ton of 0:05:52.320 --> 0:05:54.440 history in the band, and I won't go into it, 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:56.720 but you should probably get up because bands and music 0:05:56.760 --> 0:06:01.320 are interesting and awesome. Cobain was I'm not making this up. 0:06:01.360 --> 0:06:04.360 This is an actual quote. Um. He was called, quote, 0:06:04.360 --> 0:06:11.440 the spokesman of a generation, next generation. Thank you. Yeah. 0:06:11.480 --> 0:06:14.239 He and Nirvana rose quickly in popularity as we were mentioning, 0:06:14.880 --> 0:06:17.400 and Nirvana to this day is regarded as one of 0:06:17.400 --> 0:06:20.920 the most influential and important rock bands of the modern era. 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:24.040 That's I mean, I know that sounds like a bold statement, 0:06:24.600 --> 0:06:27.440 but it's true. Yeah, it's possible. You also know of 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:30.880 Dave Grohl or very least the Food Fighters again, yeah 0:06:30.920 --> 0:06:35.000 you do, go look it up. Um Groll was the 0:06:35.120 --> 0:06:39.240 drummer for Nirvana. I totally had spaced that out when 0:06:39.279 --> 0:06:41.680 I was doing the reading. Why is his name all 0:06:41.680 --> 0:06:47.960 over the stuff? Oh yeah yeah yeah, so yeah, Cobain 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:51.760 huge influence on music, pretty much everything that is modern rock. 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:56.920 I said it, deal with it. We're gonna get a 0:06:56.960 --> 0:07:01.360 lot of emails. Yeah, yeah, we're getting regardless regardless. Yeah, 0:07:01.440 --> 0:07:03.400 and actually I guess so before we go too far 0:07:03.480 --> 0:07:07.799 into the mystery. The mystery is that Kurt Cobain committed 0:07:07.839 --> 0:07:12.960 suicide on April, the age of arguably at the height 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:15.400 of his career. I mean, you know he could have yeah, 0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:18.200 he could have putting him into club. Yeah he was 0:07:18.240 --> 0:07:20.840 part of the Seven Club um. But a lot of 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:25.640 people think that, uh he was not. Actually he was 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:28.600 actually murdered. He was didn't actually kill himself. So that's 0:07:28.600 --> 0:07:31.760 our mystery. Did Kurt Cobain commits suicide or not? And 0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:34.640 if I really have to say it, it's a suicide story. 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:38.720 So if that's the thing that bothers you, stop now. Yeah, Okay, 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:43.240 suicide bothers me. So I'm gonna go. Okay, bye, Steve. 0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:47.080 You ready? Yeah? Great, Let's go back to important characters. 0:07:47.280 --> 0:07:52.040 Let's start with that right In Um January of nineteen ninety, 0:07:52.200 --> 0:07:56.240 Kurt met Portland local and frontwoman for the band that 0:07:56.800 --> 0:07:58.960 I think it's safe to say most people haven't actually 0:07:59.040 --> 0:08:02.560 heard of, called Whole Um and her name was Courtney Love. 0:08:02.720 --> 0:08:06.360 The Whole really form in ninety I thought they formed later. No, No, no, 0:08:06.520 --> 0:08:10.320 whole was I'm sorry, I'm just saying whole like that's 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:13.280 where you would know Courtney Love. Okay, not that the 0:08:13.320 --> 0:08:16.520 band formed in ninety I think they were. I think 0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:18.880 you know, they I think it was later on that 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:24.120 they were starting to get bigger, had been around Okay, yeah, 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:27.360 maybe even earlier than that. Also, it's unfair to say 0:08:27.360 --> 0:08:30.320 that nobody's heard of Whole. You've probably heard Whole songs. 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:32.760 You just don't know it. It was a joke. I'm sorry. 0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:34.880 I'm Also it's also not a percent sure that that's 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:37.640 where they met, but it doesn't really matter. They probably 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:39.840 met in Portland. I know he played a lot of 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:42.959 gigs in Portland. Yeah, well they were from Seattle. Yeah. 0:08:43.640 --> 0:08:47.280 Courtney Love is probably, uh like, one of the most 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:51.600 ridiculed celebrities of all times. Ever, I would say she 0:08:51.920 --> 0:08:56.160 has habitually abused drugs and alcohol. She has had lots 0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:59.959 of legal trouble as well. A few months after Cobain's death, 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:04.120 Love actually punched someone at Lollapalooza, which started a string 0:09:04.120 --> 0:09:06.440 of arrests, um and she was banned from a lot 0:09:06.520 --> 0:09:10.080 of places, including Virgin Airlines. Like the entire airline, she 0:09:10.200 --> 0:09:14.480 was no longer allowed to fly with them. She assaulted 0:09:14.520 --> 0:09:21.880 a stewardess. Typical. Yeah. Yeah, I will say this that 0:09:22.000 --> 0:09:25.600 despite her substance abuse problems prior to Cobain's death. It 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:29.640 seems that her problems were her legal problems at least, 0:09:29.679 --> 0:09:32.120 were really spurred by his death. She didn't really have 0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:35.400 many legal problems before he died. Yeat, and you know, 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:38.480 she wasn't arrested or anything like that. They seemed like 0:09:38.520 --> 0:09:41.240 a pretty normal couple, you know, as normal as you 0:09:41.280 --> 0:09:45.600 can be in the famous nineties grunge era. They got 0:09:45.640 --> 0:09:49.160 married in February of ninety two. Love wore a lace 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:53.160 and satin wedding dress and Cobain wore green pajamas. Yeah, 0:09:53.440 --> 0:09:55.600 and um, Love was pregnant at the time when they 0:09:55.600 --> 0:09:58.480 were married, and she gave birth to their only child, 0:09:58.559 --> 0:10:03.000 whose name is Frances Bean in August. Did he of 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:05.800 you guys look at pictures of Frances. I think she's beautiful. 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:09.160 She I was really surprised at how much she looks 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:12.439 like her mom. Yeah, for some reason, this is dumb, 0:10:12.520 --> 0:10:15.280 but I expected her to look more like her father, 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:20.120 and it was shocking to see a sober version or 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:23.360 clean version. Of course she has. She has Kurt's eyes, 0:10:23.880 --> 0:10:27.800 I would say, really really piercing blue eyes. Frances up 0:10:27.840 --> 0:10:32.120 to these days anyway, she's an artist. She's getting a 0:10:32.160 --> 0:10:38.199 divorce she's getting divorced. Tom Grant is another important player 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:41.480 and this whole thing most of the time you'll here 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:45.920 Grant referred to as an exemplary man, at least definitely 0:10:46.000 --> 0:10:51.640 in his own documentaries. Uh, he was a detective in 0:10:51.800 --> 0:10:54.520 l A. And then he retired and became a private detective. 0:10:54.720 --> 0:10:59.800 Definitely been the loudest proponent of the Cobain murder theory. 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:04.920 He was hired by Love on April th after Cobaine 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:08.840 escaped from a rehab facility in l A. On marcht one. 0:11:09.120 --> 0:11:11.480 And we're going to talk about the whole series of 0:11:11.520 --> 0:11:15.680 events in a minute. So this is really just pretty much, yeah, 0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:17.800 the important people, so that when we're going through I 0:11:17.800 --> 0:11:20.280 don't have to pause to say all that stuff. Grant 0:11:21.200 --> 0:11:26.600 almost immediately started recording almost literally every conversation and event 0:11:27.040 --> 0:11:31.280 that happened around this case. He's I mean, he's thousands 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:35.679 of hours of recordings. And while many of the conversations 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:38.079 that he taped were with a woman by the name 0:11:38.120 --> 0:11:42.560 of Rosemary Carroll, who is slash was the entertainment lawyer 0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:47.520 for Courtney and Kurt both. The interesting thing about Rosemary 0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:52.320 Carroll is that in recordings she very clearly agrees with 0:11:52.360 --> 0:11:56.559 Grant about most of his theories, but refuses to go 0:11:56.840 --> 0:11:59.840 on the record of any kind to say those things. 0:11:59.840 --> 0:12:01.720 In fact, in one of the recordings, you can hear 0:12:01.800 --> 0:12:05.520 her agreeing with Grant and then uh, she goes, wait 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:07.760 are you recording? And he says, I record everything, and 0:12:07.800 --> 0:12:10.360 she goes, you can't do that. Stop and he stops 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:12.600 the recording. She says a couple other words that I 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:15.600 that we don't say on our podcast. Oh. When she 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:21.480 discovers it's she does say a few things. Yeah. Um, 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:24.200 this might confuse people her refusal to go on the record, 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:28.440 but it doesn't really confuse me that much. Courtney Love 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:31.560 is still her client. She's a lawyer. She's a lawyer, 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:36.280 and her firm represents people like Jay Z for instance. 0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:39.760 It's a big firm of big talent, and you you 0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:42.640 can't go around accusing your clients of murder in the 0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:47.880 public if you want to retain any of your clients. Yeah, 0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:50.800 so it makes sense to me. Who knows, maybe you 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:53.160 can even be disbarred for saying stuff like that. Seems 0:12:53.240 --> 0:12:57.000 like you probably could. I don't really know anyway. So 0:12:57.720 --> 0:12:59.880 you'll hear that tossed around a lot, but I just 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:01.400 want to go on the record of saying it doesn't 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:03.080 really bother me that much that she won't go on 0:13:03.120 --> 0:13:07.400 the record. Okay, those are the big ones, big three 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:13.880 with a couple. Yeah, talk about those when we get there. Timeline. 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:16.760 Let's talk about timeline. Alright. We're just gonna do a 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:19.320 series of events here, and we're actually going to start 0:13:19.320 --> 0:13:23.080 a little earlier than April. We're gonna start in early 0:13:23.200 --> 0:13:29.199 March in Germany. Um, sorry, Nirvana was on tour in Europe, 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:32.600 I should say, and in Germany, Cobain was diagnosed with 0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:38.679 bronchitis and severe laryngitis. It does. Yeah, so when you know, 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:41.400 sometimes his singing was more screaming. But it's still tough 0:13:41.440 --> 0:13:43.280 to do still, like you just can't do it. I mean, 0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:45.440 you have to be able to produce noise. Yes, that 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:48.560 doesn't really work if you've got laryngitis or bronchitis. Where 0:13:49.480 --> 0:13:53.080 on thing it does. I don't think it's really Nirvana style, 0:13:53.240 --> 0:13:56.880 but maybe yeah, that it was more the guitars smashing 0:13:57.080 --> 0:14:02.240 than anything. Yeah, as you can imagine. Um, Kurt decided 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:06.560 to get treatment for the said bronchitis and laryngitis, so 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:10.360 he flew to Rome for treatment, because why not if 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:11.720 you have a lot of money, may as we'll go 0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:14.160 to Rome for treatment instead of staying in Germany. I 0:14:14.200 --> 0:14:17.480 don't know. Probably, well it actually it turns out that 0:14:17.600 --> 0:14:20.120 Courtney Love. I'm gonna try to refer to people by 0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:23.560 the last names, but I might forget. But Love really 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:26.920 really likes Roman history, So I suspect there might have 0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:29.360 been something there that he thought, oh, well, maybe she'll 0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:31.480 come with me if I go hang out in Rome 0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:33.320 or something like that. You know what I heard about 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:35.560 that heard that about her, that that's that's kind of 0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:41.680 surprised me. It really surprising. I did not imagine that 0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:45.080 there Courtney Love that we didn't know about. Well, um, 0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:47.720 Courtney Love did join him in Rome, in fact, and 0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:52.080 on March three, Cobain had, according to Love, gone all out. 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:56.800 He'd gotten her flowers, he had Champagne ready. He was 0:14:56.840 --> 0:15:00.600 basically like super cute, excited and romantic. He even apparently 0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:03.760 got her a piece of the Colosseum because apparently, you know, 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:06.000 she loves Roman history, so she went down to the 0:15:06.040 --> 0:15:11.920 Colisseum with his hammer. Yeah, and it probably isn't actually 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:17.840 from the Colosseum. Okay, when she arrived, Love says, they 0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:21.840 opened the champagne and she popped a valium because stress, 0:15:21.880 --> 0:15:24.400 I guess, and they made out a little bit and 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:29.440 then she fell asleep. Yeah, and I think you know 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:33.360 that that would upset me. Well, it would. But didn't 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:36.240 she fly in from the States? Yeah, wouldn't she have 0:15:36.360 --> 0:15:39.640 like horrible jet leg And in addition to it depends 0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:42.920 on when she Oh you mean that, So she would 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:44.640 have fallen asleep anyway because she would have been really, 0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:47.920 really tired. Yeah, it depends on when she flew. But yeah, 0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:50.800 I mean, valium will knock you out. And so I 0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:52.960 don't know what why she did that. I would be 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:56.760 annoyed if my wife husband showed up in Rome and 0:15:56.800 --> 0:15:59.600 I hadn't seen him for a long time and you know, 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:02.520 was being really romantic and then he was just like okay, 0:16:02.560 --> 0:16:07.040 but sleep. Yeah I didn't know. I can see that. Yeah. 0:16:07.080 --> 0:16:10.440 So around four am, she woke up from her value 0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:14.120 and induced coma apparently to find Cobaine passed out on 0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:16.880 the floor and he was rushed to the hospital. He 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:21.160 had apparently overdosed on real hypnol, which you probably know 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:25.480 as Rufie's, which there aren't actually intended for like date 0:16:25.520 --> 0:16:28.280 rape stuff. They're actually just sleep aids um and it 0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:31.360 was it was Love's prescription that he had. He had 0:16:31.400 --> 0:16:35.680 taken some of her pills, and she very famously says 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:38.240 that there were like fifth that he had taken, like 0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:41.360 fifty pills. I want to know why the heck she 0:16:41.480 --> 0:16:44.880 had fifty of them, Honor Well, I mean why not? 0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:46.840 I mean, what what do you usually get as a 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:55.160 prescription of something? Yeah, I think that is an excessive number. Also, 0:16:55.240 --> 0:17:02.600 she was drug addict. She did have every Yeah, but 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:05.600 the overdose was so bad that Cobain was actually in 0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:09.840 a coma. And I can't tell from the reporting on 0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:12.240 this if he was in a coma for five days 0:17:12.359 --> 0:17:15.240 or he was just actually in the hospital for five days. 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:17.840 I also can't tell if he was actually in a 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:24.520 coma or he was just unconscious. But that's he was 0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:27.840 definitely in the hospital for five days. No matter what 0:17:27.880 --> 0:17:30.120 was happening in the hospital, he was there. You'll hear 0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:34.720 this referred to as Cobain's first suicide attempt. But it's 0:17:34.800 --> 0:17:39.439 really important to delineate here that no one at the time, 0:17:39.960 --> 0:17:44.520 doctors included, thought that it was a suicide attempt. Everybody 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:50.040 classified it as a totally accidental overdose, and nobody thought 0:17:50.200 --> 0:17:53.640 it was a suicide attempt. That wasn't until it wasn't 0:17:53.800 --> 0:17:58.040 until Cobain died that it started being referred to as 0:17:58.040 --> 0:18:03.720 a suicide attempt. That's important. Yeah. There's also some speculation 0:18:04.240 --> 0:18:08.840 that the reason that Cobain had so many Rufe's in 0:18:08.840 --> 0:18:13.520 a system is that Love put a bunch of pills 0:18:13.560 --> 0:18:16.680 in his champagne and so he was unknowingly drinking Rufe's 0:18:16.680 --> 0:18:19.600 as well as taking Rufie's. I don't know if I 0:18:19.640 --> 0:18:21.840 believe that or not, especially since I don't know how 0:18:21.960 --> 0:18:23.800 much he had in his body. I was going to 0:18:23.880 --> 0:18:29.399 say she wanted to kill him, then why would she 0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:34.080 Why would she rush him to the hospital? Exactly? Exactly. Yeah, 0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:37.560 that's my big my other big thing with saying, oh, 0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:39.800 she was trying to kill him, that was her first try. 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:42.159 It was like no, because she would not have called 0:18:42.200 --> 0:18:46.640 an ambulance. She would have to she would have waited, Yeah, 0:18:46.640 --> 0:18:48.080 and then she could have come to and been like, 0:18:48.119 --> 0:18:50.200 oh my god, I woke up at nine o'clock this 0:18:50.240 --> 0:18:55.479 morning and he was dead. Exactly. Anyway, I don't believe 0:18:55.560 --> 0:18:57.960 that this was a murder or suicide attempt. I believe 0:18:58.000 --> 0:19:02.080 it was totally just an accidental overs but um, that's 0:19:02.160 --> 0:19:06.800 just my opinion. Man. Comain and Love returned to Seattle 0:19:06.840 --> 0:19:08.640 after he spent five days in the hospital in Rome, 0:19:09.080 --> 0:19:12.320 which I'm just now realizing I never said, is where 0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:15.920 they lived. They lived in Seattle, Washington. It was a 0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:19.439 nice little house. Yeah, it wasn't little, No, I'm sorry, 0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:23.480 you know, I mean actually little that was actually for 0:19:23.520 --> 0:19:25.040 as wealthy as it were, though, you know, it was 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:27.440 actually more modest than a lot of rock stars would 0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:30.280 live in, and you know, but still a pretty big house. 0:19:30.480 --> 0:19:34.080 Seattle is not known for, unlike places like l A, 0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:38.920 for having that many huge, lavish homes at that time. 0:19:39.040 --> 0:19:41.399 Now that's stuff, says case now. But at that time 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:47.720 they weren't as many giants sprawling gold encrusted homes. Yeah. 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:51.639 On March eighth, Love called the police, claiming that Cobain 0:19:51.760 --> 0:19:54.119 was suicidal and had locked himself in a room with 0:19:54.160 --> 0:19:58.160 a gun. The police came, They confiscated the guns and 0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:01.520 some pills um. But when they asked Cobain why he 0:20:01.600 --> 0:20:04.280 was behaving that way, he said he wasn't suicidal at all, 0:20:04.680 --> 0:20:08.760 but he was hiding from um Courtney. I guess it's 0:20:08.800 --> 0:20:10.679 actually in the literal police report. I don't know if 0:20:10.720 --> 0:20:13.879 you guys saw that posted, but it literally says that 0:20:13.960 --> 0:20:16.199 in the police report that he was scared of Courtney 0:20:16.240 --> 0:20:17.879 and he was hiding from her with a gun in 0:20:17.920 --> 0:20:21.440 the room. I have heard the stuff that has come 0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:23.879 out of that woman's mouth before, and I would have 0:20:23.960 --> 0:20:27.920 hid in the bathroom too, because she's a little cuckoo 0:20:28.000 --> 0:20:30.199 for cocoa puffs. At time, it was a little cuckoo 0:20:30.200 --> 0:20:33.000 for cocoa puffs two. And sometimes there are some recordings 0:20:33.000 --> 0:20:35.439 of him threatening Oh yeah, no, no, no, I'm not 0:20:35.520 --> 0:20:38.359 saying that he was stable. Yeah, I'm saying she is 0:20:38.560 --> 0:20:44.120 definitely unindely unstable. Yeah. So again you'll hear that also 0:20:44.160 --> 0:20:47.440 referred to as a suicide attempt. Obviously it was not 0:20:47.640 --> 0:20:50.000 given that the police report proves that it was not, 0:20:50.840 --> 0:20:52.760 or I mean, at the very least that he was 0:20:52.800 --> 0:20:56.159 aware enough to say, no, it's not. I don't really know. Again, 0:20:56.640 --> 0:20:58.119 I don't think he was trying to kill himself at 0:20:58.119 --> 0:21:02.080 that moment either. But there you go on March Love 0:21:02.240 --> 0:21:05.959 stage and intervention with ten of Cobain's friends and some 0:21:06.000 --> 0:21:09.680 record executives, which I think is pretty funny. We did 0:21:09.720 --> 0:21:12.840 and mentioned that he was a heroin addict, right, Probably not, 0:21:13.240 --> 0:21:16.440 I haven't actually mentioned right. Thank you for pointing that out. 0:21:16.480 --> 0:21:18.400 This is one of those instances where you get so 0:21:18.480 --> 0:21:20.320 caught up in the case you forget to say things 0:21:20.440 --> 0:21:27.000 that seem really obvious to you, totally important. Both Courtney 0:21:27.040 --> 0:21:32.399 and Kurt were really really heavy heroin users throughout the 0:21:32.520 --> 0:21:38.520 entire duration of their relationship and prior to I think 0:21:38.520 --> 0:21:40.600 it was Courtney said it was drugs that brought them together. 0:21:40.720 --> 0:21:44.840 I think major shared in. Yeah. So yeah, he was 0:21:44.880 --> 0:21:48.879 a heavy, heavy, heavy, heavy, heavy heroin users. So was she. 0:21:49.280 --> 0:21:52.840 They both used a lot of drives. They and in fact, 0:21:52.960 --> 0:21:55.440 there's a lot of stuff out there talking about how 0:21:55.480 --> 0:21:59.879 Cobain embraced his identity as a drug addict. That was 0:22:00.119 --> 0:22:04.680 attractive to him that he was doing drugs, So take 0:22:04.720 --> 0:22:08.000 that as you will. For those of you familiar with 0:22:08.040 --> 0:22:13.600 the case, Dylan Carlson was at the intervention. I am 0:22:13.640 --> 0:22:17.119 consciously omitting a lot of stuff that you will see 0:22:17.480 --> 0:22:23.000 about Dylan around on the internet about this case because 0:22:23.440 --> 0:22:26.240 I just think that they're not even a little suspicious 0:22:26.240 --> 0:22:28.679 the way he was acting and I think that it 0:22:28.800 --> 0:22:32.920 adds a lot of fluff to the case to discuss 0:22:33.600 --> 0:22:39.080 Dylan as some nefarious character. I don't think that nefarious. 0:22:39.119 --> 0:22:40.600 And by the way, just for those of you who 0:22:41.040 --> 0:22:43.360 aren't aware of the case, Dylan Carlson was a childhood 0:22:43.400 --> 0:22:45.679 friend of Kurt Cobain's. They were they were best friends, 0:22:46.480 --> 0:22:51.320 and also they did drudge together. I and I was 0:22:51.320 --> 0:22:54.160 going to say that's that is the only reason I'm 0:22:54.200 --> 0:22:57.080 not opposed to not bringing him up every ten seconds 0:22:57.119 --> 0:22:59.600 like some of the places that you'll read about this 0:22:59.640 --> 0:23:04.439 story does, is because he was also a junkie and 0:23:04.680 --> 0:23:10.760 his behavior is very very um typical, the things that 0:23:10.840 --> 0:23:12.600 he says in the way that he acts. So it's 0:23:12.960 --> 0:23:16.080 there's I can't see putting a lot of faith into 0:23:16.080 --> 0:23:18.720 the guy. Yeah, I don't think it's suspicious. If you 0:23:18.840 --> 0:23:21.159 want to know what we're kind of talking about again, 0:23:21.480 --> 0:23:24.119 we're kind of talking about Soaked in Bleach and the 0:23:24.160 --> 0:23:27.880 way that they portray Dylan Carlson as well as Tom 0:23:27.920 --> 0:23:31.359 grant Um, the way he portrays Dylan as kind of 0:23:31.400 --> 0:23:37.640 a seat nefarious guy in this whole thing. So I'm 0:23:37.640 --> 0:23:39.439 not going to bring him up every ten seconds like 0:23:39.480 --> 0:23:41.320 a lot of people do when they talk about this case, 0:23:41.320 --> 0:23:43.320 and I just wanted to bring that up. Now. I'll 0:23:43.359 --> 0:23:45.760