Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and Dine Matt
Speaker 1: and today we want to talk about how to stop money,
Speaker 1: arguments in their tracks stopping it and it's tracks. Joel,
Speaker 1: did you ever see I don't know the name of
Speaker 1: this Western, but I remember seeing this as a kid.
Speaker 1: But like this is it's an old Western, bunch of cowboys.
Speaker 1: I think they greased up these railroad tracks. Uh. And
Speaker 1: they tied rope across the tracks that were tied to trees,
Speaker 1: like a bunch of them, like after the other one. Uh.
Speaker 1: And that's how they stopped this train literally with ropes,
Speaker 1: with ropes well, and and like the tracks were greased,
Speaker 1: you know, like you only have one engine like at
Speaker 1: the beginning, and so as long as you know, if
Speaker 1: it's lost traction, that train ain't going anywhere. I think
Speaker 1: that's how they got the money. Does this ring a
Speaker 1: bell to you? Know? You never saw it. I have
Speaker 1: no idea this movie. If you know what the movie is, though,
Speaker 1: maybe email in and uh let us know that I
Speaker 1: have this vivid picture of this heist. But enough about
Speaker 1: bank robbery. Let's we're gonna talk about I wouldn't know
Speaker 1: the first thing about Robin trains, but people don't do
Speaker 1: that anymore, right, That's that's true. It's a relative of
Speaker 1: bygone era, that's true. Uh yeah, So this episode, we're
Speaker 1: gonna talk all about relationships. We're gonna talk about how
Speaker 1: it is uh maybe stopping arguments in their tracks, but specifically,
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about how to power through, how to
Speaker 1: work through these different arguments and disagreements that we might
Speaker 1: have with a significant other. And I'm actually really looking
Speaker 1: forward to this episode. Man, I think this is gonna
Speaker 1: be a good one. Yes, it's not something we talked
Speaker 1: about a whole lot of money in relationships are are crucial.
Speaker 1: They form an important part of how we relate to
Speaker 1: the people that are closest to us, and money issues
Speaker 1: can cause a lot of problems, so it's important to
Speaker 1: figure out how we work do those things. Well, that's
Speaker 1: what we're gonna talk about today. Before we get that,
Speaker 1: put our couple's counseling hats on for just us. One episode.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, we're not licensed therapists, so, um,
Speaker 1: don't expect that from us. My wife is in school
Speaker 1: to be come a license therapist. Maybe it's rubbing off
Speaker 1: on me a little bit. We'll see. But before we
Speaker 1: get to that, I wanted to mention that we just
Speaker 1: got a new vacuum in our house, Matt, and it's impressive.
Speaker 1: So is this your wise Yeah, okay, yeah, So we've
Speaker 1: talked about the cameras, both the cameras which are awesome,
Speaker 1: which are like thirty bucks, very affordable, very affordable. D
Speaker 1: you slot in the little SD card and then you
Speaker 1: don't have to pay for a monthly recurring bill for
Speaker 1: video monitoring, if that's what you're looking forth. Exactly. Back
Speaker 1: in time, we used our wives as a as a
Speaker 1: baby monitor, and I was I just liked how the
Speaker 1: company was making really good stuff for just incredibly low prices.
Speaker 1: And they recently released one of those like cordless stick vacuums,
Speaker 1: kind of like the disons. I think Dison really pioneered those.
Speaker 1: But those are five bucks. Those are really expensive, really expensive.
Speaker 1: I thought maybe you got that. They sold a robot
Speaker 1: vacuum like a little They do also some of those,
Speaker 1: although we did not buy that one. But yeah, so
Speaker 1: I was like, all right, they're releasing this one. There
Speaker 1: was a special pre order price. I think it was
Speaker 1: a hundred dollars. I want to say four, and I
Speaker 1: was like, well, this, this is, this is It's worth
Speaker 1: giving this a shot, because you know, I've been impressed
Speaker 1: with their stuff before. That's really cheap for a stick vacuum.
Speaker 1: And and the other thing is apparently what goes wrong
Speaker 1: with those vacuums most of the time is a dead battery.
Speaker 1: Like the battery just goes to crap, and then you
Speaker 1: have to replace the entire vacuum. Well not with the
Speaker 1: wise because the battery is detachable, so you can order
Speaker 1: a new battery. Like as the battery life deteriorates on
Speaker 1: that vacuum, you can order a new battery. That's all right,
Speaker 1: that's right. All there's new batteries a hundred dollars. I
Speaker 1: think they're half the price, which is about the same
Speaker 1: with like an electric bicycle. The batteries about half the
Speaker 1: cost of the battery. Technology ain't cheap. But but so
Speaker 1: I just want to say, we've been thoroughly impressed with
Speaker 1: this vacuum. I don't think of myself as a vacuum
Speaker 1: connoisseur necessarily, but which I do. I'm really into vacuum.
Speaker 1: All right, Well you have to come over, and you said,
Speaker 1: let me know your thoughts give it a whir else
Speaker 1: see what kind of section this thing's gotta going on.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think that they're not quite as
Speaker 1: powerful as just like a leafblower that you plug into
Speaker 1: a wall outlet. It's going to be more powerful than
Speaker 1: the battery power, right, And it's the same thing with
Speaker 1: the vacuum. Quarter vacuum is probably gonna have a bit
Speaker 1: more suction going on, exactly. I mean, it's hard to
Speaker 1: beat the brush roll too of a plugged in vacuumcause
Speaker 1: those things like will beat the crap out of a carpet. Yes,
Speaker 1: that's how it knocks up on the dirt exactly us.
Speaker 1: So I will say this, it doesn't quite have that
Speaker 1: going for it. And the battery life isn't super long
Speaker 1: on any of these vacuums, including the Wise vacuum. So
Speaker 1: if that's not your jam, if you're like I like
Speaker 1: the vacuum for hours on end, this was probably not
Speaker 1: gonna do it for you. And so I mean you're
Speaker 1: mostly probably using this one just for like spot cleaning,
Speaker 1: right where it's like, oh, there's a big mess, kids
Speaker 1: spilled some sparkles or something like that, sprinkles, I don't know,
Speaker 1: and cleaning cleaning the car too, which I will say
Speaker 1: the portability for car cleaning is really nice. Well, thank
Speaker 1: you for sharing that, and you'll have to report back
Speaker 1: as to how well it holds up, because if you
Speaker 1: have to buy that fifty dollar battery in like five months,
Speaker 1: maybe Wise has got a racket. But they've proven themselves
Speaker 1: to be a good new company for selling these gadgets
Speaker 1: basically that other companies are selling for a lot more money.
Speaker 1: That's right, Yeah, So I just want to make people
Speaker 1: aware of that. I'll link to the one that we bought,
Speaker 1: you know, in the show notes if you want to
Speaker 1: check it out. But for us, at least so far,
Speaker 1: it's it's been great and saved us a lot of
Speaker 1: money over the much more expensive versions. Good move, dude.
Speaker 1: All right, let's mention the beer that we're gonna have
Speaker 1: on this episode. This first of all, was sent to
Speaker 1: us by Jason. He's up there in New York near
Speaker 1: the Rochester location of the Other Half Brewing, which we've
Speaker 1: are a huge fan of their beers. And so the
Speaker 1: name of this beer dual you said was dank. It
Speaker 1: actually is so above it says can and dank. So
Speaker 1: he said it's a play on words of a lake
Speaker 1: up there. It's like canea or something like that. I
Speaker 1: don't know even know how you say, but it's a
Speaker 1: pun uh, And that's what this beer is named after.
Speaker 1: So well, the other half makes fantastic beers. And I'm
Speaker 1: looking forward to trying this I p a with you
Speaker 1: on the show today, Matt. We'll talk about it at
Speaker 1: the end of the episode. Absolutely, all right, let's let's
Speaker 1: move on. Let's get to the topic at hand. Let's
Speaker 1: talk about money arguments, how to not necessarily stop them
Speaker 1: in their tracks, but how to maybe make them more
Speaker 1: productive and have them less frequently. And it turns out
Speaker 1: that the highest predictor for marriage failure is money. It
Speaker 1: fights about money. How often we fight about money? And
Speaker 1: that might surprise you, it might not, but stats show
Speaker 1: that the couples that communicate the most poorly about money,
Speaker 1: that fight the most frequently, end up divorcing more frequently.
Speaker 1: And so Matt and I we think that this means
Speaker 1: that whether you're married, whether you're not married, we've got
Speaker 1: to communicate. We've got to work to communicate better about
Speaker 1: money as couples. And so yeah, we'll mostly be talking
Speaker 1: about long term partner dynamics in this episode, we just
Speaker 1: often fight more with the person that we're closest to
Speaker 1: and that that we do with anyone else on earth.
Speaker 1: And I think that's that's mostly because we spend more
Speaker 1: time with them than anyone else, right, but it's also
Speaker 1: because the stakes are the highest in that relationship. And yeah,
Speaker 1: since money is the number one issue that married folks
Speaker 1: fight about, and since a third of Americans report having
Speaker 1: major conflicts around the areas of money in their relationship,
Speaker 1: it's worth discussing um and good chunk of the other
Speaker 1: two thirds are probably experiencing at least some money issues
Speaker 1: as well. So yeah, I think it's important for us
Speaker 1: to cover mat because this is one of those things
Speaker 1: that really affects all of us. Even the folks that
Speaker 1: feel like they're handling money decently, well, that's right, they're
Speaker 1: just faking it. We know that they're dealing with these
Speaker 1: issues as well. Yeah, so we're talking about stopping these
Speaker 1: arguments of their tracks. We even thought about naming this
Speaker 1: episode avoiding these money arguments. But the fact is we're
Speaker 1: we're not saying that you should strive towards never having
Speaker 1: a disagreement with your partner. We think that different opinions
Speaker 1: are really important when it comes to decisions with your money. Like,
Speaker 1: it probably means that, like that you're gonna lead a
Speaker 1: more adventurous and fulfilling life if you are both able
Speaker 1: to approach a situation with different perspectives in mind. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, life might be a little boring if you
Speaker 1: were both exactly the same. But when you do have
Speaker 1: these disagreements, it's important that you approach those situations with
Speaker 1: a a foundation of trust and of respect. That's going
Speaker 1: to be essential to fostering healthy conflict, right, Like, that's
Speaker 1: the difference between unhealthy conflict and healthy conflict is how
Speaker 1: you approach these disagreements. And we want to engage well
Speaker 1: in this healthy conflict so that we avoid these destructive
Speaker 1: patterns within our relationships as well as with our money.
Speaker 1: And so we want to work towards not only growing
Speaker 1: our wealth, but growing and strengthening our relationships too. And
Speaker 1: it's difficult for any real growth to occur when there
Speaker 1: aren't actually some growing pains. Yeah, man, it makes me
Speaker 1: think about like when my kids have a hard time
Speaker 1: sleeping night, when they constantly complain about aches and their
Speaker 1: legs or their arms, And I'm like, you're growing right now,
Speaker 1: like you're going through a growth spurt. And I think
Speaker 1: arguments and disagreements are two different things, right, Like we
Speaker 1: want to prevent the non knockdown, drag out fights. We
Speaker 1: we don't want our listeners engaged in unhealthy ways of
Speaker 1: communicating about money on the rig. But friction is necessary,
Speaker 1: right in order to make progress. Like you said, it's
Speaker 1: we want to grow as a couple, uh, towards each
Speaker 1: other in an area that has a lot of potential
Speaker 1: for conflict. But it doesn't mean I think you're right,
Speaker 1: like avoidance altogether is just as unhealthy as constant conflict.
Speaker 1: We want to be able to make sure that we're
Speaker 1: having those conversations in a healthy way. Yeah, it's it's
Speaker 1: so it makes me think of exercise, right, because if
Speaker 1: you have somebody who's thinking, Okay, I don't want exercise
Speaker 1: because I don't want to be sore, and so they're
Speaker 1: just avoiding it all together. They're sitting on the couch. Well,
Speaker 1: turns out eventually at some point they're gonna be hurting,
Speaker 1: whether it's because their heart is in bad shape or
Speaker 1: their body is aching because they're not staying physically active.
Speaker 1: We all know that exercise is going to lead to
Speaker 1: better outcomes when it comes to our physical health, and
Speaker 1: so in the same way, like we want to engage
Speaker 1: in a healthy way when it comes to these disagreements
Speaker 1: with our money. And honestly, on the flip side, I
Speaker 1: think the same thing is true as well if you
Speaker 1: have somebody who is maybe too engaged with their body
Speaker 1: when it comes to working out, Like we know people
Speaker 1: who have injured themselves because they're just maybe overtaxing their bodies.
Speaker 1: I get accused of being too ripped all the time.
Speaker 1: You are not the accused here, but there are some
Speaker 1: I mean, and also too if you're doing it in
Speaker 1: ely right, Like if your technique is wrong, you could
Speaker 1: really jack your body in a bad way. And the
Speaker 1: same thing can be true with not only your money,
Speaker 1: but your relationships as well. If you are approaching a
Speaker 1: conversation about money and you're just being too abrasive, you're
Speaker 1: being too over the top, that could be a situation
Speaker 1: where you're not able to recover, and that could permanently
Speaker 1: harm that relationship. It's uh, like you know, when you
Speaker 1: work out, there are these small micro tears that happened
Speaker 1: to your muscles, right, and like those small but measured
Speaker 1: tears are what allow your muscles to grow and for
Speaker 1: you to get stronger. That's what we want to do
Speaker 1: when it comes to these different conflicts in our lives.
Speaker 1: We want to lean into them. We we want to
Speaker 1: do them. H We don't want to avoid them, but
Speaker 1: we also don't want to go to the other extreme
Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, that's how you grow and have a
Speaker 1: meaning for relationship when you can tackle hard things together
Speaker 1: in a positive way, when you can lean into that
Speaker 1: discomfort and disagreement and not let it get the best
Speaker 1: of you. And I think, Matt, one of the reasons
Speaker 1: that people so often run towards avoidance of money conflict
Speaker 1: is because we're not taught about money growing up, whether
Speaker 1: it's in school or from our parents. Most of us
Speaker 1: are figuring out on our own through trial and error,
Speaker 1: and we're making we're making screw ups a lot of
Speaker 1: the time. We're we're not handling money well, and so
Speaker 1: we're embarrassed. We feel ashamed, and that lack of knowledge,
Speaker 1: along with that unhealthy dose of shame, uh, really impacts
Speaker 1: our relationships when it comes to how we talk about money.
Speaker 1: I think it leads to this unhealthy cycle of making
Speaker 1: a mistake and then trying to maybe cover it up
Speaker 1: or just not talk about it or get defensive when
Speaker 1: it gets brought up with our significant other. And I
Speaker 1: think that's one important point to to mention. It's an
Speaker 1: important thing to recognize in yourself and realize that shame
Speaker 1: might be impacting some of the ways in which you're
Speaker 1: talking about money with the person that you love. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's important to be vulnerable and not feel like that
Speaker 1: you have to have all of your stuff figured out
Speaker 1: before you start having these conversations. And I think a
Speaker 1: lot of times we can feel the need to make
Speaker 1: sure everything's in shape, especially like if it's a couple
Speaker 1: who maybe is dating before they are in a committed,
Speaker 1: a long term relationship, before they've gotten financially naked, there
Speaker 1: might be a desire to get all that stuff figured
Speaker 1: out before they start having those conversations. But we feel
Speaker 1: that it's important to start having these conversations and to
Speaker 1: start opening those lines of communication to start working for
Speaker 1: positive changes in our lives. And you know, as we
Speaker 1: kind of launch into some of these different arguments, we
Speaker 1: wanted to mention too that not all of these disagreements,
Speaker 1: and not all of these arguments are actually about money.
Speaker 1: Fights we we have. They might seem like that they're
Speaker 1: about money, and honestly, in truth, sometimes they are. But
Speaker 1: while money is the topic that is generating the heated
Speaker 1: discussion in the moment, there are a lot of other
Speaker 1: factors at play. It's so it's important to recognize that
Speaker 1: so that we don't think that just simply more money
Speaker 1: is going to magically fix our problems. More money is
Speaker 1: not a cure all uh, And so just keep in
Speaker 1: mind that there's more at play here than just a
Speaker 1: busted budget. We want you to as you're thinking through
Speaker 1: some of these different disagreements, to truly like figure out
Speaker 1: what is at the core of the disagreement, because in
Speaker 1: these instances, if you're only focusing on the money, you're
Speaker 1: focusing on the symptom of the problem here, you're focusing
Speaker 1: at what is truly at the core. And just a
Speaker 1: standard regular counselor who specializes in couples therapy, that is
Speaker 1: the direction that we think could be more productive than
Speaker 1: just focusing on the money. Yeah, yeah, I agree, Matt.
Speaker 1: Not it might seem like these these issues, these arguments
Speaker 1: continue to bubble up around the topic of money, but
Speaker 1: there are likely other things at play underneath there. It
Speaker 1: might be consistently coming home at a different time then
Speaker 1: you say you're gonna come home like that. There could
Speaker 1: be There could be all of these other things that
Speaker 1: are fostering mistrust or or even producing resentment in a
Speaker 1: relationship that need to be tackled. And the argument might
Speaker 1: seem on it surface like it's about money, but there
Speaker 1: could be other stuff bubbling underneath. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: some of those arguments actually are about money. And you know,
Speaker 1: as we all know, money stress can negatively impact your health,
Speaker 1: and those frequent arguments often lead to worse outcomes in
Speaker 1: your relationship and when it comes to your financial trajectory.
Speaker 1: So there might also be real issues that your family
Speaker 1: faces when it comes to your finances. You might not
Speaker 1: have enough margin right, You might not have enough money
Speaker 1: on hand, which leads to a lot of frustration and stress.
Speaker 1: You might be in debt up to your eyeballs, which
Speaker 1: of course is going to cause actual arguments about money.
Speaker 1: You know that leads to more fights, and so doing
Speaker 1: the hard work of fixing your finances is going to
Speaker 1: go a long way towards making your relationship more peaceful.
Speaker 1: You know, like Matt said, UH, solving the money angle
Speaker 1: doesn't fix all of your fights instantaneously. But there are
Speaker 1: certain fights that are specifically UH come stem from money
Speaker 1: problems that will pop up, and we need to figure
Speaker 1: out how to address those two. That's right, and so
Speaker 1: let's get to uh the number one root cause of
Speaker 1: so many money arguments, and that is when you're not
Speaker 1: on the same page with what you're striving after. And
Speaker 1: so if you and your partner, if you want different things,
Speaker 1: if you want your money to end up into different places,
Speaker 1: that is bound to cause some friction. And again, we
Speaker 1: think that differences of opinion, you know, differences in the
Speaker 1: things that interests us uh and subsequently where we decide
Speaker 1: to end our money, those should be differences that we celebrate.
Speaker 1: After all, I'm guessing that at least some of those
Speaker 1: differences are what attracted you to your partner, right, But
Speaker 1: we do need to make sure that our differences aren't
Speaker 1: bigger and more divisive than the values that we share.
Speaker 1: And so that's why it's incredibly important for us to
Speaker 1: get on the same page when it comes to our
Speaker 1: money and our partner yea. So one suggestion we'd have
Speaker 1: when it comes to getting on the same page, since
Speaker 1: that is such a big problem and it will help
Speaker 1: curb some of these fights, is to separately write down
Speaker 1: each of your own top money goals. This is a
Speaker 1: great thing you can actually come back together. But we've
Speaker 1: actually got a worksheet that can help you do just that,
Speaker 1: and that will link to in the show notes that
Speaker 1: Matt and I kind of crafted came up with that
Speaker 1: helps you walk through some of your own personal desires
Speaker 1: and then some of your desires when it comes to money,
Speaker 1: how money impacts your life's mission. And then we would say,
Speaker 1: come together with those worksheets that you've done on your
Speaker 1: own and start to discuss those hopes and dreams that
Speaker 1: you both have. There's a really good chance that there
Speaker 1: are some crucial commonalities on each of your sheets, right,
Speaker 1: and so we would say, yeah, build on those so
Speaker 1: you can start heading in the same direction, because it's
Speaker 1: important to start building on the things that you already
Speaker 1: agree on. But what if you come back to that
Speaker 1: conversation with your partner after you've both filled out your
Speaker 1: own money mission statements and they are like some serious
Speaker 1: differences between what you've both identified as important goals. You
Speaker 1: feel like you're trains running in the opposite direction. That
Speaker 1: that could be a little awkward and lead to some
Speaker 1: interesting conversations. Hopefully that's something that you do maybe before
Speaker 1: you've committed to a longer term relationship. Yeah, you have
Speaker 1: moving together, you have kids, all that kind of stuff,
Speaker 1: and it's like, wait a second, do I even know you?
Speaker 1: Like you? Probably that's an awkward place to be. That's
Speaker 1: not where you want to end up. And it's definitely
Speaker 1: one of the reasons that you don't go on like
Speaker 1: one day with someone and then immediately get married, because
Speaker 1: you want to make sure you have commonalities, that you
Speaker 1: have shared goals in a purpose. But Yeah, to take
Speaker 1: a more optimistic approach, we would say you can make
Speaker 1: up those differences through sacrifice and through putting the other person,
Speaker 1: through putting your partner ahead of yourself. And so it
Speaker 1: is going to it to be able to see some
Speaker 1: of those shared goals on paper is going to be
Speaker 1: really helpful, um in helping you understand the main concerns
Speaker 1: and dreams of your partner. I think it's gonna help
Speaker 1: you understand them a little bit better and hopefully help
Speaker 1: fuel positive conversation as opposed to just money arguments. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I like what used to do about sacrifice because like, honestly,
Speaker 1: I do feel that, Like, if there's anything I've learned
Speaker 1: over you know, many years of marriage is that I
Speaker 1: feel like it is less about compromise and it more
Speaker 1: it's more about sacrifice because it's about choosing to put
Speaker 1: whatever it is that you know your partner cares about
Speaker 1: putting that first in your life. Right, Because if you
Speaker 1: do that, and then if they also do that, and
Speaker 1: you're doing that because you want to see them happy,
Speaker 1: and they're doing that because they want to see you happy,
Speaker 1: it's like this, you know, it's this upward, uh endless
Speaker 1: cycle of relationship building and growing stronger as opposed to
Speaker 1: if both always having to meet in the middle. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: and so what I guess what I'm saying is like
Speaker 1: it's like a right as opposed to like fifty because
Speaker 1: on the other end of hundred is like each per
Speaker 1: in their own silo and being like, you know, only
Speaker 1: being focused about what it is that they care about.
Speaker 1: And so like we're not saying that you will get
Speaker 1: to do all of the things that you want to
Speaker 1: do right now for the rest of your life. But
Speaker 1: what I'm getting at is that we can essentially change
Speaker 1: what it is that is important to us, and what
Speaker 1: is important to them then becomes what's important to us,
Speaker 1: and so ultimately they win and you win as well
Speaker 1: because you're happy that they're happy. Yeah, basically that that
Speaker 1: shared mutual sacrifice, it becomes a beautiful thing and it
Speaker 1: and it creates something this healthy dynamic in your relationship
Speaker 1: that wouldn't be possible if you were just trying to
Speaker 1: meet in the middle on everything. I completely agree. All right,
Speaker 1: we've gotten more to get to. We're gonna cover some
Speaker 1: of the main money arguments that pop up most frequently
Speaker 1: and kind of give our thoughts on what the solution
Speaker 1: is to those, and then later on we'll give some
Speaker 1: of our definitive thoughts on how to kind of argue
Speaker 1: better talk about money better. We'll get to those right
Speaker 1: after the break. All right, we're back for them. Bring
Speaker 1: And just before, Jill, you said that we're gonna teach
Speaker 1: folks how to argue better, And what we don't mean
Speaker 1: is that we're not going to teach you how to
Speaker 1: win every argument, but we're gonna help you to Uh,
Speaker 1: communicate better and to talk about things better with your partner.
Speaker 1: And so let's keep moving. Let's talk about some more
Speaker 1: common money arguments. And this dynamic where you've got the
Speaker 1: overspender versus the frugal light like, that's just one of
Speaker 1: those like relational dynamics that can lead to serious money fights.
Speaker 1: When you've got one person and they have a tough
Speaker 1: time creating their spending while the other, you know, just
Speaker 1: looks on with horror, it's bound to result in not
Speaker 1: only some hurt feelings, but eventually in some hard conversations.
Speaker 1: And it's important to think the best of your partner
Speaker 1: as well. It's it's almost never the case where your
Speaker 1: partner is out and they're trying to sabotage you, you
Speaker 1: and your finances to purposely make you angry. Uh. This
Speaker 1: is often the result instead of just a lack of
Speaker 1: financial knowledge or awareness. Uh. And if they do have
Speaker 1: some knowledge and if they are aware, instead maybe in
Speaker 1: this case, just a lack of discipline. Yeah. So if
Speaker 1: that's a problem in your relationship where you are either
Speaker 1: the spender or the super frugal person and you find
Speaker 1: that there's just a massive imbalanced there, well we would say,
Speaker 1: you know, when it comes to how do you solve
Speaker 1: for that, getting on the same page is crucial. You
Speaker 1: can't just bounce from argument to argument with each successive
Speaker 1: spending mistake, like every time you get the credit card
Speaker 1: bill and you're like, what did you do? That's that's
Speaker 1: just an unhealthy approach, Like that's not going to be
Speaker 1: the way to be able to move forward in a
Speaker 1: positive manner. And it's important for the frugal person in
Speaker 1: the relationship also to realize that they aren't just right
Speaker 1: by default. I think as probably how to money list,
Speaker 1: you probably fall more into that frugal orbit and you
Speaker 1: might automatically assume that your spendthrift uh significant other is
Speaker 1: the entire part of the problem and the problem doesn't
Speaker 1: lie with you at all. We would say if you
Speaker 1: take that approach and you don't exercise any humility, then
Speaker 1: those conversations aren't going to go well either. Relationships involved
Speaker 1: that give and take. They involve the ability to put
Speaker 1: yourself in the other person's shoes and see like what
Speaker 1: led to some of those mistakes, And like Matt said,
Speaker 1: it's not intentional sabotage if you're able to talk about
Speaker 1: it well and realize what is causing maybe some of
Speaker 1: those spending issues. You can talk about it a little
Speaker 1: bit better without having to just automatically jump to accusations. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I'm glad too that you said that just because
Speaker 1: you're maybe more frugal, that doesn't mean that you are right,
Speaker 1: because you could be so frugal that you're just wrong. Right,
Speaker 1: you could be at the point to where, for instance,
Speaker 1: like you say that you've been there before, so I
Speaker 1: can Yeah, Like you could say that, well, this is
Speaker 1: important to me. We've identified that this is important to
Speaker 1: us travel, and so we're gonna pinch pennies so that
Speaker 1: we can travel. But in reality, if you're so cheap
Speaker 1: that you're not even willing to travel and and actually
Speaker 1: pull the trigger and spend money on the thing, well,
Speaker 1: it turns out you don't actually value that. In the
Speaker 1: same way, like if you have a partner who maybe
Speaker 1: values something else, it doesn't mean that they are incorrect
Speaker 1: because they want to spend money on something that you
Speaker 1: don't to spend money on. But and I think like
Speaker 1: I realized that too early on in our marriage. Well,
Speaker 1: it took me a while to actually realize that and
Speaker 1: implement some of these things, But some of the things
Speaker 1: Emily wanted to spend money on, it was like they
Speaker 1: didn't mean anything to me. But she felt the same
Speaker 1: way about how I spent money, like the things I
Speaker 1: was interested in. She didn't care about that six pack
Speaker 1: of craft beer, but for me it was meaningful. And
Speaker 1: let's be honest, back then it was only like tin
Speaker 1: dollar your prices. Have you know, experienced that inflation curve?
Speaker 1: But I think there, Yeah, there's a huge reality where
Speaker 1: if you're only thinking about how the money that's being
Speaker 1: spent makes you feel well, then you're being shortsighted and
Speaker 1: you have to think about how it makes your partner
Speaker 1: feels too, and you have to be able to kind
Speaker 1: of work through some of those dynamics together in a
Speaker 1: positive way, not just keep screaming that they're doing it wrong. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and oftentimes the reason there's a miscommunication going on is
Speaker 1: because you don't have a plan, and stats show that
Speaker 1: using the word budget specifically can actually impact your ability
Speaker 1: to have a helpful discussion. We've tried to reframe this
Speaker 1: word on how the money because we think that budgets
Speaker 1: are actually a really good thing, but the general connotation
Speaker 1: of that word of budget is that that means deprivation. Again,
Speaker 1: we believe that the opposite is true. But if using
Speaker 1: you know, instead using a term like spending plan, if
Speaker 1: that's more helpful for your partner to get on board with,
Speaker 1: and by all means use that. It's just important to
Speaker 1: point out that language matters. Uh, make it clear what
Speaker 1: it is like when you say that, hey, we need
Speaker 1: to let's sit down and make a budget together. Make
Speaker 1: sure that you're communicating that, hey, this is a permission
Speaker 1: slip for us to spend how it is that we
Speaker 1: want to spend, I know, for us, for for Kate
Speaker 1: and I that is what got her on board was
Speaker 1: the fact that when we agree to spend this money,
Speaker 1: we do it. And for us, it's almost just as
Speaker 1: bad to go over that amount as it is to
Speaker 1: go under it, because if we haven't spent that much
Speaker 1: money on a certain item or within a certain area,
Speaker 1: it means that we haven't lived according to a way
Speaker 1: that we have agreed to ahead of time. And so
Speaker 1: we're getting kind of towards the end of the year here,
Speaker 1: and one of those things that stands up my mind
Speaker 1: is that at the beginning of the year, we decided
Speaker 1: that we were going to set aside a certain amount
Speaker 1: of money to go towards health expenses like going to
Speaker 1: the doctor. Those aren't things that we have actually done,
Speaker 1: and that's a problem for us, Like because at the
Speaker 1: beginning you've gotten in the habit of not going to
Speaker 1: the doctor a decade, but at the beginning of the year,
Speaker 1: we identified that, Okay, I haven't been to the doctor
Speaker 1: in so long. Oh, I will say I wint got
Speaker 1: my eyes checked. Everyone knows I did that a few
Speaker 1: months ago. Kudos for that one charge. But there are
Speaker 1: several other visits that we had both planned to get
Speaker 1: on the calendar and we didn't do that. And honestly,
Speaker 1: that's going to need to be a discussion because our
Speaker 1: actual actions are not aligning with what we say is
Speaker 1: important to us. In this case, we actually need to
Speaker 1: prioritize doing the things that we said that we're gonna do. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you're right, man, I think budgeting is this way
Speaker 1: to actually achieve the greatest goals that you have as
Speaker 1: a couple. But we've turned it into this term that
Speaker 1: is mostly negative. And so if it takes using a
Speaker 1: different term to get your your spouse or your significant
Speaker 1: they're on board. Use that term. Whatever it is, it
Speaker 1: helps you mutually get excited about something go in that direction. Somehow,
Speaker 1: we have to change it from like the budget, from
Speaker 1: being a stick to a carrot, you know, like whatever
Speaker 1: it is that's going to attract us to want to
Speaker 1: do it rather than feeling like it's something that is
Speaker 1: keeping us from the living the life we want to
Speaker 1: live totally. And we would say you also might need
Speaker 1: to devise a better system, like a better spending system. Right,
Speaker 1: we like credit cards as a spending tool, but not
Speaker 1: if they're causing you to spend more, or if you're
Speaker 1: buying things that you can't afford, or if you can't
Speaker 1: pay your bill off on time and info at the
Speaker 1: end of every month. That's when credit cards become a
Speaker 1: bad thing for you, a bad thing for for your family.
Speaker 1: So specifically for the category of individual spending, you might
Speaker 1: want to do a cash envelope system. If there's like
Speaker 1: a set amount that you both get at the beginning
Speaker 1: of the month, then it can help create those necessary boundaries.
Speaker 1: Because sometimes it is just the physical tool of a
Speaker 1: plastic in your hand that mentally allows you pushes you
Speaker 1: in the direction of spending more than you should whereas
Speaker 1: if you have a finite number of dollars, then that
Speaker 1: can actually help curb you're spending. So sometimes it might
Speaker 1: take changing the system. Uh, the system is sending you
Speaker 1: up for failure, and you need to create a system
Speaker 1: that will create the proper boundaries so that you can
Speaker 1: actually succeed. You know, one of the systems or one
Speaker 1: of the rules that you might have in place to
Speaker 1: help when it comes to you know that dynamic between
Speaker 1: an overspender and a frugal light is UH to talk
Speaker 1: about different big purchases together literally create a dollar amount
Speaker 1: that requires a conversation. And so for one couple, that
Speaker 1: just might be say fifty bucks, like that could be
Speaker 1: the threshold for you, But for another couple it could
Speaker 1: be two and fifty dollars, it could be five dollars,
Speaker 1: so there's no conversation needed when you, like are going
Speaker 1: to go out and buy a candy bar. But either way,
Speaker 1: that rule can curb a lot of unnecessary fights before
Speaker 1: they begin by making sure that the conversation happens on
Speaker 1: the front end before a big purchase instead of on
Speaker 1: the back end. It all comes down to whatever it
Speaker 1: is that's going to work for you. But either way.
Speaker 1: That rule can curb a lot of unnecessary fights before
Speaker 1: they begin by making sure that the conversation happens on
Speaker 1: the front end before a big purchase and that of
Speaker 1: on the back end. It's kind of like asking permission
Speaker 1: versus asking for forgiveness, and it goes a whole lot
Speaker 1: further to say, Hey, I'm gonna ask permission before I
Speaker 1: do this and not just be like sorry about that
Speaker 1: on the back end. It's going to lead to healthier
Speaker 1: relationship dynamics. And yeah, another common money fight is maybe
Speaker 1: one person handling all the money decisions, all the money tasks,
Speaker 1: and that can be frustrating, it can cause fights, but
Speaker 1: it's also we would say, just not good for each
Speaker 1: individual in the relationship. You know, we've suggested in the
Speaker 1: past that there needs to be a minimum split of
Speaker 1: ninety ten when it comes to financial tasks, when it
Speaker 1: comes to how you handle bill pay or every single
Speaker 1: financial decision in your household. It doesn't have to be
Speaker 1: a clear cut delineation of fifty fifty. And that's because
Speaker 1: often one person enjoys money tasks more than the other,
Speaker 1: or maybe even uh is genuinely great with money. So,
Speaker 1: for instance, if you're listening to how the money you
Speaker 1: might be the half of your relationship who is doing
Speaker 1: the most heavy lifting in this area. And i's so
Speaker 1: carefully you're both listening and you're holding hand, and everything
Speaker 1: is getting better. Right. It's like a fireside chat without
Speaker 1: the money. Yes, hopefully that's what you what you do
Speaker 1: on your date night is you just listen to this podcast.
Speaker 1: But yeah, we could say just make sure that you
Speaker 1: aren't doing all of it, because it's helpful actually for
Speaker 1: your spouse, your partner to have some exposure to the
Speaker 1: household finances. It's time to come up with a proper
Speaker 1: division of labor and decide who handles which money tasks.
Speaker 1: And so, Matt, I know a lot of listeners might
Speaker 1: be shocked. I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but that
Speaker 1: Emily does the budgeting in our household, and people will
Speaker 1: be like, what, you're the money host, Like, why in
Speaker 1: the world does she do that? And it's not because
Speaker 1: I make her, but it's truly because she is better
Speaker 1: at detail oriented things than I am. I kind of
Speaker 1: like run away from Excel spreadsheets, while she's like kind
Speaker 1: of curious and doesn't mind doing them. And so yeah,
Speaker 1: find out like where your strengths lie. And it's important
Speaker 1: that you're both incorporated into the finances in some way,
Speaker 1: form or fashion, so that one person is not doing
Speaker 1: everything and the other person is doing nothing. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: important to divide those tasks in a way that works
Speaker 1: for both of you. And one of the benefits is
Speaker 1: that it could potentially stretch you both in a good way.
Speaker 1: You know, you might not be used to relinquishing control,
Speaker 1: say of the Excel spreadsheet, like that might be temptation
Speaker 1: that I might have, but that's probably good for me
Speaker 1: to for kate not only to see that, but for
Speaker 1: to have some control over that as well. And you know,
Speaker 1: maybe your partner, maybe they don't want the added pressure
Speaker 1: of handling the bill pay but that doesn't mean that
Speaker 1: they shouldn't. And so the more cognizant that you both
Speaker 1: are when it comes to your finances, the better off
Speaker 1: your holistic financial situation is going to get over time.
Speaker 1: Uh And and just keep communicating about this because you know,
Speaker 1: like these roles don't have to stay the same for forever.
Speaker 1: Like you might enter a season where you're just really
Speaker 1: busy and you used to handle paying all the bills,
Speaker 1: but maybe you're you're in a season of life where
Speaker 1: that's something that you have to to switch off on.
Speaker 1: And also I think it depends on the type of
Speaker 1: involvement as well, Right, And so I'm like, I'm thinking
Speaker 1: of the month, the month tracking of our spending and
Speaker 1: our saving. I mean, I probably do ninety five if
Speaker 1: not of that, and I think that's okay. But it's
Speaker 1: important is that I keep Kate updated as to what
Speaker 1: those figures are and what those numbers are. But when
Speaker 1: it comes to, like I mentioned earlier, like the bigger
Speaker 1: conversation that we have at the end of the year
Speaker 1: where we're setting goals for ourselves for the next year,
Speaker 1: where we're deciding how much we're gonna put towards vacation,
Speaker 1: how much we're gonna you know, set aside for kids clothing,
Speaker 1: you know, how much we're gonna spend on maybe adding
Speaker 1: a little master bath. These are things that she has
Speaker 1: one percent involved in and I am one percent involved in.
Speaker 1: Like it's something that we we don't debate, but we
Speaker 1: are both very active. It's sort of like I was
Speaker 1: saying earlier as far as like prioritizing the other person first,
Speaker 1: and you're both kind of leaning into it. That is
Speaker 1: just one of those times where we are both incredibly involved,
Speaker 1: uh and rightly so, because that is when we're making
Speaker 1: all of the hard decisions, and that's when we're setting
Speaker 1: ourselves up for, you know, the different goals that we're
Speaker 1: seeking after that coming year. Yeah. No, I like that.
Speaker 1: I think it's important, and I think, yeah, you want
Speaker 1: not just a proper division of money tasks, but some
Speaker 1: of those tasks need to overlap, and you both need
Speaker 1: to have input on those bigger goals that you have
Speaker 1: because those influence where the money goes. And I would
Speaker 1: say it's also a good idea to do a little
Speaker 1: digging around and to ask yourself, why is it that
Speaker 1: we've defaulted to handling money the way that we do.
Speaker 1: Spending some time talking through your history with money. Maybe
Speaker 1: it was like a money phrase to your parents always used.
Speaker 1: That's like stuck in your brain and you can't get
Speaker 1: it out. Money doesn't grow on trees, and you're like,
Speaker 1: dang it there right now, I have to like pinch everybody.
Speaker 1: And or maybe it was a financially jarring experience that
Speaker 1: you found yourself in right after college. Maybe you did
Speaker 1: get a credit card early on you graduated, you had
Speaker 1: tons of student loan debts and credit card debts, and
Speaker 1: you couldn't get a good paying job, and that feeling
Speaker 1: haunts you to this day. Like, these different experiences shape
Speaker 1: our views and they have a massive impact on whether
Speaker 1: we are like spend thriffs or whether we are penny pictures. Uh,
Speaker 1: And how much we decide to micromanage our financial decisions
Speaker 1: or not, or whether maybe we even attempt to avoid
Speaker 1: money conversations altogether. But yeah, understanding our own predispositions and
Speaker 1: our partner's history with money is going to help make
Speaker 1: any future arguments and discussions about money all that more productive. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's right. And on that note, has your partner ever
Speaker 1: approached you with the my way or the highway attitude?
Speaker 1: If so, this probably caused a fight that sort of approach.
Speaker 1: I'm right, you're wrong. Yeah, Like, that's never gonna work
Speaker 1: if you want to make any progress together. These different
Speaker 1: power plays are gonna, you know, provide setbacks for your
Speaker 1: relationship when it comes to making progress with your money
Speaker 1: as a couple. And you know, one of the reasons
Speaker 1: this might be happening is if one partner earns more
Speaker 1: or even all of the income for the household. That
Speaker 1: can be a route for money arguments. And assuming that
Speaker 1: just because you make more money that you get to
Speaker 1: decide where the money goes for the household is an
Speaker 1: incorrect assumption. That approach will cause some arguments for sure.
Speaker 1: It's incredibly unhealthy, and it's a reason why we think that,
Speaker 1: especially once a couple gets married, it is worth combining
Speaker 1: your finances altogether because it's not now going to be
Speaker 1: your income and her debts. It is all of your
Speaker 1: money altogether, and you're gonna make these decisions together. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that's definitely a cause for unhealthy dynamics, is
Speaker 1: when one person makes more and they hold it over
Speaker 1: the other partner. But that that of course is going
Speaker 1: to cause money arguments. It's just not a healthy approach
Speaker 1: to money. And so yeah, I think that that's really
Speaker 1: the solution map that you just mentioned is treating everything
Speaker 1: in common, holding everything in common. That's the key to
Speaker 1: a successful long term partnership. And also, like there could
Speaker 1: just be a general tension around the fact that you're
Speaker 1: not able to get ahead with your money at all. Right,
Speaker 1: it feels like you're not getting anywhere, You've got no
Speaker 1: traction that can be another cause for money arguments. If
Speaker 1: this is the case, you may not even be fighting
Speaker 1: about money because you're on the same page. You've identified
Speaker 1: shared goals, but because you're not achieving those goals, you're
Speaker 1: just angry below the surface on a continual bait basis.
Speaker 1: But it's just like spinning basically. It's sort of like
Speaker 1: the train that had the you know, it's got the
Speaker 1: tracks greased up. It's just sitting there and it's cranking
Speaker 1: the cranking the wheels and not moving anywhere. Yeah, or
Speaker 1: at the very least, maybe you're annoyed at your partner
Speaker 1: and maybe you haven't even realized it until now. You're like,
Speaker 1: we keep having these chats and then no progress is made,
Speaker 1: and it's just so frustrating that we have an ideal
Speaker 1: that we're trying to meet, but we never actually take
Speaker 1: any steps to get there exactly. Yeah, I could see
Speaker 1: this being like a more likely scenario if you know,
Speaker 1: neither of you or your partner have an interest in
Speaker 1: personal finance, or if neither of you are organized enough
Speaker 1: to translate those those shared goals that you have into
Speaker 1: a plan of action that you can execute. This is
Speaker 1: when there's just no follow through. And so for example,
Speaker 1: like you can't simply state that you want to be
Speaker 1: able to save some money to buy a house. You
Speaker 1: need to get specific. So if you know that you're
Speaker 1: gonna put down, then how much money is that going
Speaker 1: to be? And then create an actual deadline so that
Speaker 1: this is a goal that you're both working towards in
Speaker 1: a in a timely manner. Like a non money example
Speaker 1: that I'm thinking of is like, let's say you want
Speaker 1: to meet up with some friends for drinks after work. Well,
Speaker 1: any time you do that, you set a time. You're
Speaker 1: not just like all right, I'll see you have to
Speaker 1: work for drinks, It's like, okay, which bar? Which bar? Time?
Speaker 1: What time is that going to be? Like what day
Speaker 1: are we even talking about? Because you might have some
Speaker 1: friends show up happen they happen to show up on
Speaker 1: time because maybe you're got that brain melt going on.
Speaker 1: It's like you know where to meet me, but like
Speaker 1: some other friends might show up an hour late or
Speaker 1: at yeah, like at the wrong place. Well, anytime you
Speaker 1: make plans like that, you get specific. You say where
Speaker 1: you're going to meet, and you say when you're going
Speaker 1: to meet, And unfortunately, when it comes to our money,
Speaker 1: we often aren't as specific with the goals that we're
Speaker 1: striving after. We don't say when it is that we
Speaker 1: want to achieve that by because there's a huge difference
Speaker 1: in saving for a down payment sometime in the next decade.
Speaker 1: There's a big difference between that versus next spring, right,
Speaker 1: because if you're saving for next spring, you are going
Speaker 1: to be really getting after it. There's gonna be some
Speaker 1: serious sacrifices in your life and that's gonna be reflected
Speaker 1: in your budget. So it's important to get specific. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you don't want your friends showing up to the dive
Speaker 1: bar when you met the karaoke bar. Yeah, you gotta
Speaker 1: be specifical of stuff. And you don't want to be
Speaker 1: saving up for home down payment in theory. You want
Speaker 1: to be saving forward in reality and and getting specific,
Speaker 1: not just but then saying like, well, all right, what
Speaker 1: home purchase price fits into our price point? What's that?
Speaker 1: This is the exact amount we need? How much money
Speaker 1: are we gonna need to see save on a every
Speaker 1: two week basis in order to get to the point
Speaker 1: where we have enough saved to buy that home? Yep,
Speaker 1: that's the process. You're gonna want to go through to
Speaker 1: make it more tangible, more real, more specific. All Right,
Speaker 1: we've got a few more things we want to get
Speaker 1: to in this episode, including our best tips for how
Speaker 1: to avoid some of these money arguments in the first place.
Speaker 1: Will go through those right after this. All right, we
Speaker 1: are back from the break and Jil. You know, we've
Speaker 1: talked through some of the different arguments that many couples
Speaker 1: that they find themselves in, and we've talked about some
Speaker 1: of the key steps that you can take in order
Speaker 1: to resolve those conflicts. But would it be better, even
Speaker 1: better if you were proactively leaning into some of these
Speaker 1: differences before they even flare up into a money fight. Well,
Speaker 1: we think that some preventative maintenance on your relationship might
Speaker 1: be the best approach, and so we're gonna talk about
Speaker 1: some of the best tips for how to avoid these
Speaker 1: arguments in the first place. And the first one is
Speaker 1: that communication is key. Having just regular conversations, UH is
Speaker 1: so important, and it's important to just what these conversations
Speaker 1: look like. We think that they can be more laid
Speaker 1: back and even fun, like a budget party instead of
Speaker 1: Excel night. Which one of those do you want to
Speaker 1: pay a part of which the budget party with a
Speaker 1: with a bottle of wine or you know, a craft
Speaker 1: beer like that sounds like a lot more fun. And
Speaker 1: this approach is going to lead to that being something
Speaker 1: that you both look forward to rather than something you resent.
Speaker 1: And over time, this will make money just much less
Speaker 1: of a touchy subject. Over overall, we wants you to
Speaker 1: be intentional with that time uh. And so this also
Speaker 1: means likely like turning off the TV uh and engaging
Speaker 1: in a in a more intentional way and also put
Speaker 1: it on the calendar. That is such an easy way
Speaker 1: to make this a repeating event that you bow continue
Speaker 1: to look forward to as opposed to it being something
Speaker 1: that you both dread. Yeah, and the more frequent these
Speaker 1: conversations are, the less intense they become. If it's this
Speaker 1: like once a year's summit where you talk about money,
Speaker 1: it's bound to be really really long and more volatile.
Speaker 1: If you do a thirty minute forty five minute chat
Speaker 1: once a month or every two weeks, it's bound to
Speaker 1: make that chat a little less daunting. And Yeah, another
Speaker 1: another tip would be to talk money history, like go
Speaker 1: back and discuss each other's childhood experiences with money, because
Speaker 1: that can unlock a lot of the beliefs that are
Speaker 1: influencing the present your present day relationship really does. Like
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know that Freudyan to talk about
Speaker 1: how her childhood has impacted kind of the way you're
Speaker 1: currently handering handling things, But it's true, like during your
Speaker 1: regular money conversations, explore some of those deeper money questions,
Speaker 1: you can make it less nuts and balthy and a
Speaker 1: little more like emotional and inquisitive. I feel like that
Speaker 1: can shed a lot of light on your partner's current approach.
Speaker 1: It can increase your empathy towards them as well, all
Speaker 1: like when I'm able to tell Emily like the part
Speaker 1: of the my weirdness with money is some of the
Speaker 1: stuff that happened to me when I was a kid,
Speaker 1: And it makes sense, It clicks a little bit more
Speaker 1: about why I am the way I am, how I'm wired,
Speaker 1: and so yeah, I woulday get curious about your partner,
Speaker 1: you know, instead of assuming they're trying to sabotage your
Speaker 1: best efforts, try to see what's going on under the surface, right,
Speaker 1: ask those helpful questions that so that you can better
Speaker 1: understand their fears and their concerns. Part of that is
Speaker 1: the past. Part of that is their fears in the presence.
Speaker 1: But those kind of conversations are gonna be kind of
Speaker 1: really fascinating. They're gonna shed some light on your partner
Speaker 1: in a context that goes beyond just pure dollars and cents.
Speaker 1: That's right. Another tip that we think is important, we're
Speaker 1: gonna get empirical with it. You need to know the
Speaker 1: numbers because it is hard to make good decisions if
Speaker 1: you don't know your income or if you don't know
Speaker 1: how much you've been spending. And so we want you
Speaker 1: to look at the hard facts and figures together because
Speaker 1: that can help you to communicate more effectively based on
Speaker 1: what is actually happening in your life, not based on
Speaker 1: what you think is happening or what you hope is happening.
Speaker 1: And so this takes things out of that theoretical world
Speaker 1: and back to reality. Uh So, this goes back to
Speaker 1: our point earlier about making sure that you both have
Speaker 1: tasks like you both are involved in your money. It
Speaker 1: can look different from couple to couple, but you both
Speaker 1: need to be involved one way or the other. Another
Speaker 1: tip two is is how it is that you communicate
Speaker 1: is so important. Uh and so recognize that blaming is
Speaker 1: going to make things worse. You know, if you say
Speaker 1: things like you always do that, that is not going
Speaker 1: to be helpful when it comes to the different conversations
Speaker 1: you have about spending, and when you actually look at
Speaker 1: the numbers, you might be able to see, oh wait,
Speaker 1: they don't always do that. That was in my brain.
Speaker 1: I built it up. Yeah, that's right. These generalizations can
Speaker 1: be easily debunked when you know the figures and so
Speaker 1: kind of going back to that one when you know
Speaker 1: the numbers. But nobody is going to be receptive to
Speaker 1: the you know, the blame game approach. Uh. If it's
Speaker 1: you who is being a little more proactive here and
Speaker 1: you're starting the conversation around your money, you can admit
Speaker 1: that there is work to be done, but lead by
Speaker 1: admitting your own shortcomings. That approach can create the space
Speaker 1: where your partner can then feel free to confess his
Speaker 1: or her own faults as well. We want you to
Speaker 1: be humble when you had these conversations and not immediately
Speaker 1: start pointing fingers. Isn't it amazing how just being able
Speaker 1: to admit something, confess something first to your spouse it's
Speaker 1: or it just lets their guard down and they're like, yeah, wow,
Speaker 1: like absolutely, I get it. You realize that you aren't perfect,
Speaker 1: and so now I'm willing to admit that too. And Yeah,
Speaker 1: A couple other tips here for having better money conversations
Speaker 1: is to remember that you're a team. And I specifically
Speaker 1: remember Matt Kate said this a couple of years ago
Speaker 1: podcast She's really smart, and she said one of the
Speaker 1: most powerful things that she had to learn that helped
Speaker 1: her to process when you guys didn't handle money how
Speaker 1: she ultimately thought you would, or how when you maybe
Speaker 1: made a purchase that didn't jive with kind of her
Speaker 1: thoughts of where your your money was headed. She said,
Speaker 1: I just had to remember, like, we're a team and
Speaker 1: we have to work together, and even when one of
Speaker 1: us does something that the other isn't all about, you're
Speaker 1: still fighting for the same thing, and you have to
Speaker 1: keep that at the forefront, uh, because that changes how
Speaker 1: you respond in those situations. Instead of getting accusatory, instead
Speaker 1: of playing that playing game, you can say, you know what,
Speaker 1: I know, We're on the same team. That's what matters,
Speaker 1: Like we can we can work through this. If you
Speaker 1: start to approach your partner like they're on a different team.
Speaker 1: That's when you're setting yourself up for the most severe
Speaker 1: kinds of money arguments. That's right. Not only is it
Speaker 1: going to be more effective to work together when you're
Speaker 1: on the same team, but it's also gonna be a
Speaker 1: lot more fun as well. And one last tip that
Speaker 1: we've got for folks here is that we would recommend
Speaker 1: that you get help if it's needed, because sometimes things
Speaker 1: have devolved to the place where you can't have a
Speaker 1: healthy conversation with just the two of you, and so
Speaker 1: if that's the case, it might be time to bring
Speaker 1: in the help of a trusted maybe like an older
Speaker 1: couple who are friends of yours, or even a financial therapist.
Speaker 1: But if you just can't figure out how to communicate
Speaker 1: without professional help, we want to make sure that you
Speaker 1: are seeking it out. That doesn't mean that you've failed.
Speaker 1: It means that you are taking your relationship seriously and
Speaker 1: that you're both committed to moving forward within that relationship. Yeah,
Speaker 1: sometimes that helpful outside third party perspective can be exactly
Speaker 1: what you need to kind to restore some sanity to
Speaker 1: those discussions. Yeah, but what we would say ultimately is
Speaker 1: to remember that avoiding difficult money conversations. That's not what
Speaker 1: we're after, Like, we do want to see the elimination
Speaker 1: of those knockdown, drag out fights about money. That's not healthy.
Speaker 1: But it's important to note that progress is possible. It
Speaker 1: might feel like money is this constant source of frustration
Speaker 1: and tension in your relationship, but that doesn't mean that
Speaker 1: there isn't light at the end of the tunnel. That
Speaker 1: you can't work through this stuff. And it takes time
Speaker 1: to dig yourself out of a financial rut that you
Speaker 1: might find yourself in. Matt, I think you know when
Speaker 1: I hear people say that they got into debt, credit
Speaker 1: card debt over the course of ten years and they
Speaker 1: want to know how to pay it off in six months,
Speaker 1: and it's like, well, that's just unlikely, Like it took
Speaker 1: you a long time to get here, and it's going
Speaker 1: to take a while to get out of it. The
Speaker 1: goal isn't to necessarily get money arguments to stop overnight
Speaker 1: cold turkey, but it is to work towards progress in
Speaker 1: your marriage or your long term relationship and in your finances.
Speaker 1: And so it's important to make sure to raise your
Speaker 1: gaze to the common goals that you're pushing towards changing
Speaker 1: the way you talk about money really can improve your
Speaker 1: overall relationship in a big way, not just your finances.
Speaker 1: And so yeah, it's important. I think when we can
Speaker 1: communicate in a healthy way about a subject that affects
Speaker 1: all of us in a big way, that sort of
Speaker 1: progress can translate to a whole lot of areas of
Speaker 1: our lives and uh, interpersonally too. That's right, man, well said.
Speaker 1: Let's go ahead, get back to the beer that you
Speaker 1: and I enjoyed during this episode. And I think the
Speaker 1: way that you pronounced this actually it's canna dankoa is that?
Speaker 1: How what do you think? Yeah, all right, I'll go
Speaker 1: with you. You're done with that. I'll trust you on
Speaker 1: that again. This one was sent to us by Jason. Jason,
Speaker 1: we really appreciate you sending this one our way. We
Speaker 1: really enjoyed it. This was a classic cloudy hazy as
Speaker 1: I'll get out double I p A and you know,
Speaker 1: combined that hot tingly bitterness mixed with like that O
Speaker 1: J sweetness, all melted combined into one. The other half
Speaker 1: is actually a brewer that you and I have visited
Speaker 1: while we're up in Brooklyn, A couple of years ago.
Speaker 1: Normally I'm where in my Other Half hat a good
Speaker 1: bit of these, uh this this time of the year,
Speaker 1: but with my hair actually being longer, I don't need
Speaker 1: to keep it out of my face. I just realized
Speaker 1: I haven't warn the hat in like over a year. Now,
Speaker 1: I gotta get a backman. That's a good hat. It's
Speaker 1: a good one. Yeah. Well, I really like this one.
Speaker 1: I thought was like light, fluffy and hoppy like some
Speaker 1: of some of these beers can be almost like palette domination,
Speaker 1: like palette wreckers, and this one was like just bringing
Speaker 1: a bunch of different beautiful hop notes but not being
Speaker 1: like completely overwhelming. And I was surprised to see that
Speaker 1: it was a double I P A because usually those
Speaker 1: double I P s are a bit bigger. Uh, They're
Speaker 1: a bit more of like a punch to the mouth,
Speaker 1: And this one was like, No, I was like, nice,
Speaker 1: a bit more finesse. Yeah, exactly. So I really appreciated
Speaker 1: this one. And I just like love everything I've ever
Speaker 1: had from Other halfs. I mean literally every beer we've
Speaker 1: ever had from them is amazing. It's been great. Ye,
Speaker 1: But yeah, I agree, Yeah, this beer at least you
Speaker 1: said like Fluffy. I feel like it had like a
Speaker 1: nice airiness to it, like it had room for you
Speaker 1: to breathe and think, uh, to approach it with finesse,
Speaker 1: just like the conversations you need to have with your partner.
Speaker 1: But Joel, I'm glad you know I got to share
Speaker 1: this one. And thanks again into Jason for sending this
Speaker 1: on our way. That's gonna be for this episode. Listeners
Speaker 1: can find our show notes up on the website at
Speaker 1: how to money dot com and we'll make sure to
Speaker 1: link to that money Mission Statement for you to download
Speaker 1: and print out yourself and hopefully that can get you
Speaker 1: and your partner down the path of talking about money
Speaker 1: in a proactive and healthy way. Yeah for sure. And
Speaker 1: if it does, let us know reach out to us
Speaker 1: feed email. We always love listener feedback. But that's gonna
Speaker 1: do it for this episode, Matt. Until next time, Best
Speaker 1: Friends Out, Best Friends Out,