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Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and Dine Matt

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Speaker 1: and today we want to talk about how to stop money,

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Speaker 1: arguments in their tracks stopping it and it's tracks. Joel,

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Speaker 1: did you ever see I don't know the name of

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Speaker 1: this Western, but I remember seeing this as a kid.

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Speaker 1: But like this is it's an old Western, bunch of cowboys.

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Speaker 1: I think they greased up these railroad tracks. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: they tied rope across the tracks that were tied to trees,

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Speaker 1: like a bunch of them, like after the other one. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And that's how they stopped this train literally with ropes,

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Speaker 1: with ropes well, and and like the tracks were greased,

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Speaker 1: you know, like you only have one engine like at

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Speaker 1: the beginning, and so as long as you know, if

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Speaker 1: it's lost traction, that train ain't going anywhere. I think

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Speaker 1: that's how they got the money. Does this ring a

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Speaker 1: bell to you? Know? You never saw it. I have

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Speaker 1: no idea this movie. If you know what the movie is, though,

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Speaker 1: maybe email in and uh let us know that I

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Speaker 1: have this vivid picture of this heist. But enough about

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Speaker 1: bank robbery. Let's we're gonna talk about I wouldn't know

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Speaker 1: the first thing about Robin trains, but people don't do

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Speaker 1: that anymore, right, That's that's true. It's a relative of

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Speaker 1: bygone era, that's true. Uh yeah, So this episode, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna talk all about relationships. We're gonna talk about how

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Speaker 1: it is uh maybe stopping arguments in their tracks, but specifically,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about how to power through, how to

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Speaker 1: work through these different arguments and disagreements that we might

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Speaker 1: have with a significant other. And I'm actually really looking

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Speaker 1: forward to this episode. Man, I think this is gonna

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Speaker 1: be a good one. Yes, it's not something we talked

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Speaker 1: about a whole lot of money in relationships are are crucial.

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Speaker 1: They form an important part of how we relate to

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Speaker 1: the people that are closest to us, and money issues

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Speaker 1: can cause a lot of problems, so it's important to

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Speaker 1: figure out how we work do those things. Well, that's

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Speaker 1: what we're gonna talk about today. Before we get that,

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Speaker 1: put our couple's counseling hats on for just us. One episode.

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Speaker 1: I was gonna say, we're not licensed therapists, so, um,

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Speaker 1: don't expect that from us. My wife is in school

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Speaker 1: to be come a license therapist. Maybe it's rubbing off

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Speaker 1: on me a little bit. We'll see. But before we

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Speaker 1: get to that, I wanted to mention that we just

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Speaker 1: got a new vacuum in our house, Matt, and it's impressive.

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Speaker 1: So is this your wise Yeah, okay, yeah, So we've

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Speaker 1: talked about the cameras, both the cameras which are awesome,

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Speaker 1: which are like thirty bucks, very affordable, very affordable. D

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Speaker 1: you slot in the little SD card and then you

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Speaker 1: don't have to pay for a monthly recurring bill for

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Speaker 1: video monitoring, if that's what you're looking forth. Exactly. Back

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Speaker 1: in time, we used our wives as a as a

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Speaker 1: baby monitor, and I was I just liked how the

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Speaker 1: company was making really good stuff for just incredibly low prices.

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Speaker 1: And they recently released one of those like cordless stick vacuums,

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Speaker 1: kind of like the disons. I think Dison really pioneered those.

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Speaker 1: But those are five bucks. Those are really expensive, really expensive.

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Speaker 1: I thought maybe you got that. They sold a robot

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Speaker 1: vacuum like a little They do also some of those,

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Speaker 1: although we did not buy that one. But yeah, so

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Speaker 1: I was like, all right, they're releasing this one. There

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Speaker 1: was a special pre order price. I think it was

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Speaker 1: a hundred dollars. I want to say four, and I

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Speaker 1: was like, well, this, this is, this is It's worth

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Speaker 1: giving this a shot, because you know, I've been impressed

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Speaker 1: with their stuff before. That's really cheap for a stick vacuum.

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Speaker 1: And and the other thing is apparently what goes wrong

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Speaker 1: with those vacuums most of the time is a dead battery.

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Speaker 1: Like the battery just goes to crap, and then you

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Speaker 1: have to replace the entire vacuum. Well not with the

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Speaker 1: wise because the battery is detachable, so you can order

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Speaker 1: a new battery. Like as the battery life deteriorates on

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Speaker 1: that vacuum, you can order a new battery. That's all right,

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Speaker 1: that's right. All there's new batteries a hundred dollars. I

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Speaker 1: think they're half the price, which is about the same

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Speaker 1: with like an electric bicycle. The batteries about half the

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Speaker 1: cost of the battery. Technology ain't cheap. But but so

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Speaker 1: I just want to say, we've been thoroughly impressed with

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Speaker 1: this vacuum. I don't think of myself as a vacuum

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Speaker 1: connoisseur necessarily, but which I do. I'm really into vacuum.

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Speaker 1: All right, Well you have to come over, and you said,

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Speaker 1: let me know your thoughts give it a whir else

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Speaker 1: see what kind of section this thing's gotta going on.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think that they're not quite as

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Speaker 1: powerful as just like a leafblower that you plug into

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Speaker 1: a wall outlet. It's going to be more powerful than

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Speaker 1: the battery power, right, And it's the same thing with

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Speaker 1: the vacuum. Quarter vacuum is probably gonna have a bit

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Speaker 1: more suction going on, exactly. I mean, it's hard to

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Speaker 1: beat the brush roll too of a plugged in vacuumcause

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Speaker 1: those things like will beat the crap out of a carpet. Yes,

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Speaker 1: that's how it knocks up on the dirt exactly us.

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Speaker 1: So I will say this, it doesn't quite have that

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Speaker 1: going for it. And the battery life isn't super long

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Speaker 1: on any of these vacuums, including the Wise vacuum. So

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Speaker 1: if that's not your jam, if you're like I like

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Speaker 1: the vacuum for hours on end, this was probably not

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Speaker 1: gonna do it for you. And so I mean you're

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Speaker 1: mostly probably using this one just for like spot cleaning,

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Speaker 1: right where it's like, oh, there's a big mess, kids

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Speaker 1: spilled some sparkles or something like that, sprinkles, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: and cleaning cleaning the car too, which I will say

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Speaker 1: the portability for car cleaning is really nice. Well, thank

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Speaker 1: you for sharing that, and you'll have to report back

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Speaker 1: as to how well it holds up, because if you

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Speaker 1: have to buy that fifty dollar battery in like five months,

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Speaker 1: maybe Wise has got a racket. But they've proven themselves

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Speaker 1: to be a good new company for selling these gadgets

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Speaker 1: basically that other companies are selling for a lot more money.

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Speaker 1: That's right, Yeah, So I just want to make people

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Speaker 1: aware of that. I'll link to the one that we bought,

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Speaker 1: you know, in the show notes if you want to

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Speaker 1: check it out. But for us, at least so far,

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Speaker 1: it's it's been great and saved us a lot of

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Speaker 1: money over the much more expensive versions. Good move, dude.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's mention the beer that we're gonna have

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Speaker 1: on this episode. This first of all, was sent to

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Speaker 1: us by Jason. He's up there in New York near

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Speaker 1: the Rochester location of the Other Half Brewing, which we've

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Speaker 1: are a huge fan of their beers. And so the

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Speaker 1: name of this beer dual you said was dank. It

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Speaker 1: actually is so above it says can and dank. So

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Speaker 1: he said it's a play on words of a lake

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Speaker 1: up there. It's like canea or something like that. I

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Speaker 1: don't know even know how you say, but it's a

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Speaker 1: pun uh, And that's what this beer is named after.

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Speaker 1: So well, the other half makes fantastic beers. And I'm

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Speaker 1: looking forward to trying this I p a with you

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Speaker 1: on the show today, Matt. We'll talk about it at

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Speaker 1: the end of the episode. Absolutely, all right, let's let's

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Speaker 1: move on. Let's get to the topic at hand. Let's

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Speaker 1: talk about money arguments, how to not necessarily stop them

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Speaker 1: in their tracks, but how to maybe make them more

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Speaker 1: productive and have them less frequently. And it turns out

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Speaker 1: that the highest predictor for marriage failure is money. It

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Speaker 1: fights about money. How often we fight about money? And

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Speaker 1: that might surprise you, it might not, but stats show

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Speaker 1: that the couples that communicate the most poorly about money,

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Speaker 1: that fight the most frequently, end up divorcing more frequently.

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Speaker 1: And so Matt and I we think that this means

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Speaker 1: that whether you're married, whether you're not married, we've got

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Speaker 1: to communicate. We've got to work to communicate better about

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Speaker 1: money as couples. And so yeah, we'll mostly be talking

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Speaker 1: about long term partner dynamics in this episode, we just

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Speaker 1: often fight more with the person that we're closest to

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Speaker 1: and that that we do with anyone else on earth.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's that's mostly because we spend more

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Speaker 1: time with them than anyone else, right, but it's also

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Speaker 1: because the stakes are the highest in that relationship. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: since money is the number one issue that married folks

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Speaker 1: fight about, and since a third of Americans report having

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Speaker 1: major conflicts around the areas of money in their relationship,

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Speaker 1: it's worth discussing um and good chunk of the other

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Speaker 1: two thirds are probably experiencing at least some money issues

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Speaker 1: as well. So yeah, I think it's important for us

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Speaker 1: to cover mat because this is one of those things

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Speaker 1: that really affects all of us. Even the folks that

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Speaker 1: feel like they're handling money decently, well, that's right, they're

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Speaker 1: just faking it. We know that they're dealing with these

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Speaker 1: issues as well. Yeah, so we're talking about stopping these

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Speaker 1: arguments of their tracks. We even thought about naming this

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Speaker 1: episode avoiding these money arguments. But the fact is we're

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Speaker 1: we're not saying that you should strive towards never having

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Speaker 1: a disagreement with your partner. We think that different opinions

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Speaker 1: are really important when it comes to decisions with your money. Like,

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Speaker 1: it probably means that, like that you're gonna lead a

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Speaker 1: more adventurous and fulfilling life if you are both able

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Speaker 1: to approach a situation with different perspectives in mind. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, life might be a little boring if you

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Speaker 1: were both exactly the same. But when you do have

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Speaker 1: these disagreements, it's important that you approach those situations with

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Speaker 1: a a foundation of trust and of respect. That's going

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Speaker 1: to be essential to fostering healthy conflict, right, Like, that's

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Speaker 1: the difference between unhealthy conflict and healthy conflict is how

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Speaker 1: you approach these disagreements. And we want to engage well

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Speaker 1: in this healthy conflict so that we avoid these destructive

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Speaker 1: patterns within our relationships as well as with our money.

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Speaker 1: And so we want to work towards not only growing

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Speaker 1: our wealth, but growing and strengthening our relationships too. And

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Speaker 1: it's difficult for any real growth to occur when there

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Speaker 1: aren't actually some growing pains. Yeah, man, it makes me

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Speaker 1: think about like when my kids have a hard time

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Speaker 1: sleeping night, when they constantly complain about aches and their

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Speaker 1: legs or their arms, And I'm like, you're growing right now,

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Speaker 1: like you're going through a growth spurt. And I think

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Speaker 1: arguments and disagreements are two different things, right, Like we

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Speaker 1: want to prevent the non knockdown, drag out fights. We

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Speaker 1: we don't want our listeners engaged in unhealthy ways of

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Speaker 1: communicating about money on the rig. But friction is necessary,

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Speaker 1: right in order to make progress. Like you said, it's

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Speaker 1: we want to grow as a couple, uh, towards each

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Speaker 1: other in an area that has a lot of potential

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Speaker 1: for conflict. But it doesn't mean I think you're right,

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Speaker 1: like avoidance altogether is just as unhealthy as constant conflict.

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Speaker 1: We want to be able to make sure that we're

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Speaker 1: having those conversations in a healthy way. Yeah, it's it's

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Speaker 1: so it makes me think of exercise, right, because if

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Speaker 1: you have somebody who's thinking, Okay, I don't want exercise

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Speaker 1: because I don't want to be sore, and so they're

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Speaker 1: just avoiding it all together. They're sitting on the couch. Well,

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Speaker 1: turns out eventually at some point they're gonna be hurting,

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Speaker 1: whether it's because their heart is in bad shape or

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Speaker 1: their body is aching because they're not staying physically active.

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Speaker 1: We all know that exercise is going to lead to

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Speaker 1: better outcomes when it comes to our physical health, and

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Speaker 1: so in the same way, like we want to engage

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Speaker 1: in a healthy way when it comes to these disagreements

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Speaker 1: with our money. And honestly, on the flip side, I

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Speaker 1: think the same thing is true as well if you

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Speaker 1: have somebody who is maybe too engaged with their body

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Speaker 1: when it comes to working out, Like we know people

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Speaker 1: who have injured themselves because they're just maybe overtaxing their bodies.

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Speaker 1: I get accused of being too ripped all the time.

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Speaker 1: You are not the accused here, but there are some

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Speaker 1: I mean, and also too if you're doing it in

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Speaker 1: ely right, Like if your technique is wrong, you could

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Speaker 1: really jack your body in a bad way. And the

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Speaker 1: same thing can be true with not only your money,

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Speaker 1: but your relationships as well. If you are approaching a

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Speaker 1: conversation about money and you're just being too abrasive, you're

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Speaker 1: being too over the top, that could be a situation

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Speaker 1: where you're not able to recover, and that could permanently

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Speaker 1: harm that relationship. It's uh, like you know, when you

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Speaker 1: work out, there are these small micro tears that happened

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Speaker 1: to your muscles, right, and like those small but measured

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Speaker 1: tears are what allow your muscles to grow and for

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Speaker 1: you to get stronger. That's what we want to do

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Speaker 1: when it comes to these different conflicts in our lives.

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Speaker 1: We want to lean into them. We we want to

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Speaker 1: do them. H We don't want to avoid them, but

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Speaker 1: we also don't want to go to the other extreme

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Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, that's how you grow and have a

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Speaker 1: meaning for relationship when you can tackle hard things together

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Speaker 1: in a positive way, when you can lean into that

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Speaker 1: discomfort and disagreement and not let it get the best

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Speaker 1: of you. And I think, Matt, one of the reasons

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Speaker 1: that people so often run towards avoidance of money conflict

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Speaker 1: is because we're not taught about money growing up, whether

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Speaker 1: it's in school or from our parents. Most of us

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Speaker 1: are figuring out on our own through trial and error,

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Speaker 1: and we're making we're making screw ups a lot of

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Speaker 1: the time. We're we're not handling money well, and so

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Speaker 1: we're embarrassed. We feel ashamed, and that lack of knowledge,

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Speaker 1: along with that unhealthy dose of shame, uh, really impacts

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Speaker 1: our relationships when it comes to how we talk about money.

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Speaker 1: I think it leads to this unhealthy cycle of making

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Speaker 1: a mistake and then trying to maybe cover it up

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Speaker 1: or just not talk about it or get defensive when

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Speaker 1: it gets brought up with our significant other. And I

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Speaker 1: think that's one important point to to mention. It's an

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Speaker 1: important thing to recognize in yourself and realize that shame

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Speaker 1: might be impacting some of the ways in which you're

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Speaker 1: talking about money with the person that you love. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's important to be vulnerable and not feel like that

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Speaker 1: you have to have all of your stuff figured out

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Speaker 1: before you start having these conversations. And I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of times we can feel the need to make

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Speaker 1: sure everything's in shape, especially like if it's a couple

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Speaker 1: who maybe is dating before they are in a committed,

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Speaker 1: a long term relationship, before they've gotten financially naked, there

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Speaker 1: might be a desire to get all that stuff figured

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Speaker 1: out before they start having those conversations. But we feel

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Speaker 1: that it's important to start having these conversations and to

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Speaker 1: start opening those lines of communication to start working for

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Speaker 1: positive changes in our lives. And you know, as we

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Speaker 1: kind of launch into some of these different arguments, we

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Speaker 1: wanted to mention too that not all of these disagreements,

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Speaker 1: and not all of these arguments are actually about money.

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Speaker 1: Fights we we have. They might seem like that they're

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Speaker 1: about money, and honestly, in truth, sometimes they are. But

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Speaker 1: while money is the topic that is generating the heated

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Speaker 1: discussion in the moment, there are a lot of other

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Speaker 1: factors at play. It's so it's important to recognize that

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Speaker 1: so that we don't think that just simply more money

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Speaker 1: is going to magically fix our problems. More money is

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Speaker 1: not a cure all uh, And so just keep in

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Speaker 1: mind that there's more at play here than just a

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Speaker 1: busted budget. We want you to as you're thinking through

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Speaker 1: some of these different disagreements, to truly like figure out

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Speaker 1: what is at the core of the disagreement, because in

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Speaker 1: these instances, if you're only focusing on the money, you're

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Speaker 1: focusing on the symptom of the problem here, you're focusing

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Speaker 1: at what is truly at the core. And just a

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Speaker 1: standard regular counselor who specializes in couples therapy, that is

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Speaker 1: the direction that we think could be more productive than

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Speaker 1: just focusing on the money. Yeah, yeah, I agree, Matt.

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Speaker 1: Not it might seem like these these issues, these arguments

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Speaker 1: continue to bubble up around the topic of money, but

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Speaker 1: there are likely other things at play underneath there. It

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Speaker 1: might be consistently coming home at a different time then

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Speaker 1: you say you're gonna come home like that. There could

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Speaker 1: be There could be all of these other things that

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Speaker 1: are fostering mistrust or or even producing resentment in a

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Speaker 1: relationship that need to be tackled. And the argument might

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Speaker 1: seem on it surface like it's about money, but there

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Speaker 1: could be other stuff bubbling underneath. But at the same time,

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Speaker 1: some of those arguments actually are about money. And you know,

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Speaker 1: as we all know, money stress can negatively impact your health,

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Speaker 1: and those frequent arguments often lead to worse outcomes in

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Speaker 1: your relationship and when it comes to your financial trajectory.

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Speaker 1: So there might also be real issues that your family

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Speaker 1: faces when it comes to your finances. You might not

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Speaker 1: have enough margin right, You might not have enough money

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Speaker 1: on hand, which leads to a lot of frustration and stress.

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Speaker 1: You might be in debt up to your eyeballs, which

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Speaker 1: of course is going to cause actual arguments about money.

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Speaker 1: You know that leads to more fights, and so doing

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Speaker 1: the hard work of fixing your finances is going to

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Speaker 1: go a long way towards making your relationship more peaceful.

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Speaker 1: You know, like Matt said, UH, solving the money angle

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Speaker 1: doesn't fix all of your fights instantaneously. But there are

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Speaker 1: certain fights that are specifically UH come stem from money

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Speaker 1: problems that will pop up, and we need to figure

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Speaker 1: out how to address those two. That's right, and so

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Speaker 1: let's get to uh the number one root cause of

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Speaker 1: so many money arguments, and that is when you're not

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Speaker 1: on the same page with what you're striving after. And

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Speaker 1: so if you and your partner, if you want different things,

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Speaker 1: if you want your money to end up into different places,

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Speaker 1: that is bound to cause some friction. And again, we

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Speaker 1: think that differences of opinion, you know, differences in the

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Speaker 1: things that interests us uh and subsequently where we decide

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Speaker 1: to end our money, those should be differences that we celebrate.

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Speaker 1: After all, I'm guessing that at least some of those

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Speaker 1: differences are what attracted you to your partner, right, But

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Speaker 1: we do need to make sure that our differences aren't

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Speaker 1: bigger and more divisive than the values that we share.

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Speaker 1: And so that's why it's incredibly important for us to

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Speaker 1: get on the same page when it comes to our

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Speaker 1: money and our partner yea. So one suggestion we'd have

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Speaker 1: when it comes to getting on the same page, since

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Speaker 1: that is such a big problem and it will help

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Speaker 1: curb some of these fights, is to separately write down

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Speaker 1: each of your own top money goals. This is a

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Speaker 1: great thing you can actually come back together. But we've

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Speaker 1: actually got a worksheet that can help you do just that,

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Speaker 1: and that will link to in the show notes that

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Speaker 1: Matt and I kind of crafted came up with that

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Speaker 1: helps you walk through some of your own personal desires

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Speaker 1: and then some of your desires when it comes to money,

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Speaker 1: how money impacts your life's mission. And then we would say,

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Speaker 1: come together with those worksheets that you've done on your

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Speaker 1: own and start to discuss those hopes and dreams that

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Speaker 1: you both have. There's a really good chance that there

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Speaker 1: are some crucial commonalities on each of your sheets, right,

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Speaker 1: and so we would say, yeah, build on those so

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Speaker 1: you can start heading in the same direction, because it's

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Speaker 1: important to start building on the things that you already

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Speaker 1: agree on. But what if you come back to that

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Speaker 1: conversation with your partner after you've both filled out your

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Speaker 1: own money mission statements and they are like some serious

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Speaker 1: differences between what you've both identified as important goals. You

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Speaker 1: feel like you're trains running in the opposite direction. That

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Speaker 1: that could be a little awkward and lead to some

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Speaker 1: interesting conversations. Hopefully that's something that you do maybe before

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Speaker 1: you've committed to a longer term relationship. Yeah, you have

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Speaker 1: moving together, you have kids, all that kind of stuff,

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Speaker 1: and it's like, wait a second, do I even know you?

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Speaker 1: Like you? Probably that's an awkward place to be. That's

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Speaker 1: not where you want to end up. And it's definitely

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Speaker 1: one of the reasons that you don't go on like

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Speaker 1: one day with someone and then immediately get married, because

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Speaker 1: you want to make sure you have commonalities, that you

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Speaker 1: have shared goals in a purpose. But Yeah, to take

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Speaker 1: a more optimistic approach, we would say you can make

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Speaker 1: up those differences through sacrifice and through putting the other person,

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Speaker 1: through putting your partner ahead of yourself. And so it

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Speaker 1: is going to it to be able to see some

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Speaker 1: of those shared goals on paper is going to be

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Speaker 1: really helpful, um in helping you understand the main concerns

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Speaker 1: and dreams of your partner. I think it's gonna help

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Speaker 1: you understand them a little bit better and hopefully help

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Speaker 1: fuel positive conversation as opposed to just money arguments. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I like what used to do about sacrifice because like, honestly,

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Speaker 1: I do feel that, Like, if there's anything I've learned

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Speaker 1: over you know, many years of marriage is that I

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Speaker 1: feel like it is less about compromise and it more

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Speaker 1: it's more about sacrifice because it's about choosing to put

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Speaker 1: whatever it is that you know your partner cares about

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Speaker 1: putting that first in your life. Right, Because if you

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Speaker 1: do that, and then if they also do that, and

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Speaker 1: you're doing that because you want to see them happy,

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Speaker 1: and they're doing that because they want to see you happy,

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Speaker 1: it's like this, you know, it's this upward, uh endless

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Speaker 1: cycle of relationship building and growing stronger as opposed to

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Speaker 1: if both always having to meet in the middle. It's like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and so what I guess what I'm saying is like

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Speaker 1: it's like a right as opposed to like fifty because

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Speaker 1: on the other end of hundred is like each per

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Speaker 1: in their own silo and being like, you know, only

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Speaker 1: being focused about what it is that they care about.

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Speaker 1: And so like we're not saying that you will get

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Speaker 1: to do all of the things that you want to

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Speaker 1: do right now for the rest of your life. But

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Speaker 1: what I'm getting at is that we can essentially change

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Speaker 1: what it is that is important to us, and what

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Speaker 1: is important to them then becomes what's important to us,

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Speaker 1: and so ultimately they win and you win as well

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Speaker 1: because you're happy that they're happy. Yeah, basically that that

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Speaker 1: shared mutual sacrifice, it becomes a beautiful thing and it

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Speaker 1: and it creates something this healthy dynamic in your relationship

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Speaker 1: that wouldn't be possible if you were just trying to

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Speaker 1: meet in the middle on everything. I completely agree. All right,

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Speaker 1: we've gotten more to get to. We're gonna cover some

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Speaker 1: of the main money arguments that pop up most frequently

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Speaker 1: and kind of give our thoughts on what the solution

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Speaker 1: is to those, and then later on we'll give some

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Speaker 1: of our definitive thoughts on how to kind of argue

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Speaker 1: better talk about money better. We'll get to those right

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Speaker 1: after the break. All right, we're back for them. Bring

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Speaker 1: And just before, Jill, you said that we're gonna teach

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Speaker 1: folks how to argue better, And what we don't mean

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Speaker 1: is that we're not going to teach you how to

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Speaker 1: win every argument, but we're gonna help you to Uh,

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Speaker 1: communicate better and to talk about things better with your partner.

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Speaker 1: And so let's keep moving. Let's talk about some more

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Speaker 1: common money arguments. And this dynamic where you've got the

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Speaker 1: overspender versus the frugal light like, that's just one of

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Speaker 1: those like relational dynamics that can lead to serious money fights.

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Speaker 1: When you've got one person and they have a tough

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Speaker 1: time creating their spending while the other, you know, just

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Speaker 1: looks on with horror, it's bound to result in not

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Speaker 1: only some hurt feelings, but eventually in some hard conversations.

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Speaker 1: And it's important to think the best of your partner

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Speaker 1: as well. It's it's almost never the case where your

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Speaker 1: partner is out and they're trying to sabotage you, you

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Speaker 1: and your finances to purposely make you angry. Uh. This

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Speaker 1: is often the result instead of just a lack of

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Speaker 1: financial knowledge or awareness. Uh. And if they do have

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Speaker 1: some knowledge and if they are aware, instead maybe in

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Speaker 1: this case, just a lack of discipline. Yeah. So if

430
00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:06,640
Speaker 1: that's a problem in your relationship where you are either

431
00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:10,600
Speaker 1: the spender or the super frugal person and you find

432
00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:13,720
Speaker 1: that there's just a massive imbalanced there, well we would say,

433
00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:15,879
Speaker 1: you know, when it comes to how do you solve

434
00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,720
Speaker 1: for that, getting on the same page is crucial. You

435
00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:22,199
Speaker 1: can't just bounce from argument to argument with each successive

436
00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:24,720
Speaker 1: spending mistake, like every time you get the credit card

437
00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:27,840
Speaker 1: bill and you're like, what did you do? That's that's

438
00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:29,960
Speaker 1: just an unhealthy approach, Like that's not going to be

439
00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:31,760
Speaker 1: the way to be able to move forward in a

440
00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:35,280
Speaker 1: positive manner. And it's important for the frugal person in

441
00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:38,560
Speaker 1: the relationship also to realize that they aren't just right

442
00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:41,640
Speaker 1: by default. I think as probably how to money list,

443
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:44,639
Speaker 1: you probably fall more into that frugal orbit and you

444
00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:49,359
Speaker 1: might automatically assume that your spendthrift uh significant other is

445
00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:52,040
Speaker 1: the entire part of the problem and the problem doesn't

446
00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:54,080
Speaker 1: lie with you at all. We would say if you

447
00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:57,480
Speaker 1: take that approach and you don't exercise any humility, then

448
00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:01,200
Speaker 1: those conversations aren't going to go well either. Relationships involved

449
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,200
Speaker 1: that give and take. They involve the ability to put

450
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:07,480
Speaker 1: yourself in the other person's shoes and see like what

451
00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:10,120
Speaker 1: led to some of those mistakes, And like Matt said,

452
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:13,480
Speaker 1: it's not intentional sabotage if you're able to talk about

453
00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:17,240
Speaker 1: it well and realize what is causing maybe some of

454
00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:19,480
Speaker 1: those spending issues. You can talk about it a little

455
00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:23,320
Speaker 1: bit better without having to just automatically jump to accusations. Yeah,

456
00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:25,040
Speaker 1: and I'm glad too that you said that just because

457
00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:27,520
Speaker 1: you're maybe more frugal, that doesn't mean that you are right,

458
00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:31,200
Speaker 1: because you could be so frugal that you're just wrong. Right,

459
00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:33,879
Speaker 1: you could be at the point to where, for instance,

460
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:35,720
Speaker 1: like you say that you've been there before, so I

461
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:38,119
Speaker 1: can Yeah, Like you could say that, well, this is

462
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:40,560
Speaker 1: important to me. We've identified that this is important to

463
00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:43,359
Speaker 1: us travel, and so we're gonna pinch pennies so that

464
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:45,960
Speaker 1: we can travel. But in reality, if you're so cheap

465
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:48,000
Speaker 1: that you're not even willing to travel and and actually

466
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:49,840
Speaker 1: pull the trigger and spend money on the thing, well,

467
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:52,159
Speaker 1: it turns out you don't actually value that. In the

468
00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:54,080
Speaker 1: same way, like if you have a partner who maybe

469
00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:57,800
Speaker 1: values something else, it doesn't mean that they are incorrect

470
00:21:57,920 --> 00:21:59,679
Speaker 1: because they want to spend money on something that you

471
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:02,040
Speaker 1: don't to spend money on. But and I think like

472
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:03,960
Speaker 1: I realized that too early on in our marriage. Well,

473
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:06,080
Speaker 1: it took me a while to actually realize that and

474
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:08,160
Speaker 1: implement some of these things, But some of the things

475
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,399
Speaker 1: Emily wanted to spend money on, it was like they

476
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,520
Speaker 1: didn't mean anything to me. But she felt the same

477
00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:15,919
Speaker 1: way about how I spent money, like the things I

478
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 1: was interested in. She didn't care about that six pack

479
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,679
Speaker 1: of craft beer, but for me it was meaningful. And

480
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:24,280
Speaker 1: let's be honest, back then it was only like tin

481
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:28,240
Speaker 1: dollar your prices. Have you know, experienced that inflation curve?

482
00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:31,080
Speaker 1: But I think there, Yeah, there's a huge reality where

483
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,240
Speaker 1: if you're only thinking about how the money that's being

484
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:37,359
Speaker 1: spent makes you feel well, then you're being shortsighted and

485
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:38,920
Speaker 1: you have to think about how it makes your partner

486
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:40,320
Speaker 1: feels too, and you have to be able to kind

487
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:42,840
Speaker 1: of work through some of those dynamics together in a

488
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:45,960
Speaker 1: positive way, not just keep screaming that they're doing it wrong. Yeah,

489
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,680
Speaker 1: and oftentimes the reason there's a miscommunication going on is

490
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,639
Speaker 1: because you don't have a plan, and stats show that

491
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:55,159
Speaker 1: using the word budget specifically can actually impact your ability

492
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 1: to have a helpful discussion. We've tried to reframe this

493
00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 1: word on how the money because we think that budgets

494
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:04,440
Speaker 1: are actually a really good thing, but the general connotation

495
00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:08,680
Speaker 1: of that word of budget is that that means deprivation. Again,

496
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,359
Speaker 1: we believe that the opposite is true. But if using

497
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:14,199
Speaker 1: you know, instead using a term like spending plan, if

498
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:16,399
Speaker 1: that's more helpful for your partner to get on board with,

499
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,040
Speaker 1: and by all means use that. It's just important to

500
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:22,760
Speaker 1: point out that language matters. Uh, make it clear what

501
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 1: it is like when you say that, hey, we need

502
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 1: to let's sit down and make a budget together. Make

503
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 1: sure that you're communicating that, hey, this is a permission

504
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 1: slip for us to spend how it is that we

505
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 1: want to spend, I know, for us, for for Kate

506
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:37,439
Speaker 1: and I that is what got her on board was

507
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,359
Speaker 1: the fact that when we agree to spend this money,

508
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:42,879
Speaker 1: we do it. And for us, it's almost just as

509
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,119
Speaker 1: bad to go over that amount as it is to

510
00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:47,720
Speaker 1: go under it, because if we haven't spent that much

511
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,560
Speaker 1: money on a certain item or within a certain area,

512
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:52,920
Speaker 1: it means that we haven't lived according to a way

513
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,280
Speaker 1: that we have agreed to ahead of time. And so

514
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 1: we're getting kind of towards the end of the year here,

515
00:23:57,760 --> 00:23:59,680
Speaker 1: and one of those things that stands up my mind

516
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 1: is that at the beginning of the year, we decided

517
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:03,720
Speaker 1: that we were going to set aside a certain amount

518
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,399
Speaker 1: of money to go towards health expenses like going to

519
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 1: the doctor. Those aren't things that we have actually done,

520
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 1: and that's a problem for us, Like because at the

521
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:13,159
Speaker 1: beginning you've gotten in the habit of not going to

522
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:15,160
Speaker 1: the doctor a decade, but at the beginning of the year,

523
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,680
Speaker 1: we identified that, Okay, I haven't been to the doctor

524
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:20,879
Speaker 1: in so long. Oh, I will say I wint got

525
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:22,399
Speaker 1: my eyes checked. Everyone knows I did that a few

526
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 1: months ago. Kudos for that one charge. But there are

527
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,720
Speaker 1: several other visits that we had both planned to get

528
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 1: on the calendar and we didn't do that. And honestly,

529
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:36,640
Speaker 1: that's going to need to be a discussion because our

530
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 1: actual actions are not aligning with what we say is

531
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,639
Speaker 1: important to us. In this case, we actually need to

532
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 1: prioritize doing the things that we said that we're gonna do. Yeah,

533
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 1: and you're right, man, I think budgeting is this way

534
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 1: to actually achieve the greatest goals that you have as

535
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 1: a couple. But we've turned it into this term that

536
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,119
Speaker 1: is mostly negative. And so if it takes using a

537
00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:59,879
Speaker 1: different term to get your your spouse or your significant

538
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 1: they're on board. Use that term. Whatever it is, it

539
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 1: helps you mutually get excited about something go in that direction. Somehow,

540
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,640
Speaker 1: we have to change it from like the budget, from

541
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 1: being a stick to a carrot, you know, like whatever

542
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:12,879
Speaker 1: it is that's going to attract us to want to

543
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 1: do it rather than feeling like it's something that is

544
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 1: keeping us from the living the life we want to

545
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,480
Speaker 1: live totally. And we would say you also might need

546
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 1: to devise a better system, like a better spending system. Right,

547
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,440
Speaker 1: we like credit cards as a spending tool, but not

548
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,160
Speaker 1: if they're causing you to spend more, or if you're

549
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 1: buying things that you can't afford, or if you can't

550
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 1: pay your bill off on time and info at the

551
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 1: end of every month. That's when credit cards become a

552
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 1: bad thing for you, a bad thing for for your family.

553
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 1: So specifically for the category of individual spending, you might

554
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,359
Speaker 1: want to do a cash envelope system. If there's like

555
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,399
Speaker 1: a set amount that you both get at the beginning

556
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 1: of the month, then it can help create those necessary boundaries.

557
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:51,520
Speaker 1: Because sometimes it is just the physical tool of a

558
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 1: plastic in your hand that mentally allows you pushes you

559
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 1: in the direction of spending more than you should whereas

560
00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:00,080
Speaker 1: if you have a finite number of dollars, then that

561
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:03,400
Speaker 1: can actually help curb you're spending. So sometimes it might

562
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,199
Speaker 1: take changing the system. Uh, the system is sending you

563
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,360
Speaker 1: up for failure, and you need to create a system

564
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:10,880
Speaker 1: that will create the proper boundaries so that you can

565
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,159
Speaker 1: actually succeed. You know, one of the systems or one

566
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:14,679
Speaker 1: of the rules that you might have in place to

567
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,160
Speaker 1: help when it comes to you know that dynamic between

568
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 1: an overspender and a frugal light is UH to talk

569
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 1: about different big purchases together literally create a dollar amount

570
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 1: that requires a conversation. And so for one couple, that

571
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,159
Speaker 1: just might be say fifty bucks, like that could be

572
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 1: the threshold for you, But for another couple it could

573
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 1: be two and fifty dollars, it could be five dollars,

574
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 1: so there's no conversation needed when you, like are going

575
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 1: to go out and buy a candy bar. But either way,

576
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 1: that rule can curb a lot of unnecessary fights before

577
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 1: they begin by making sure that the conversation happens on

578
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 1: the front end before a big purchase instead of on

579
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:49,919
Speaker 1: the back end. It all comes down to whatever it

580
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,120
Speaker 1: is that's going to work for you. But either way.

581
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,200
Speaker 1: That rule can curb a lot of unnecessary fights before

582
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:57,920
Speaker 1: they begin by making sure that the conversation happens on

583
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 1: the front end before a big purchase and that of

584
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:02,680
Speaker 1: on the back end. It's kind of like asking permission

585
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 1: versus asking for forgiveness, and it goes a whole lot

586
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 1: further to say, Hey, I'm gonna ask permission before I

587
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 1: do this and not just be like sorry about that

588
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 1: on the back end. It's going to lead to healthier

589
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 1: relationship dynamics. And yeah, another common money fight is maybe

590
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:22,400
Speaker 1: one person handling all the money decisions, all the money tasks,

591
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,399
Speaker 1: and that can be frustrating, it can cause fights, but

592
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,920
Speaker 1: it's also we would say, just not good for each

593
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 1: individual in the relationship. You know, we've suggested in the

594
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:33,920
Speaker 1: past that there needs to be a minimum split of

595
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 1: ninety ten when it comes to financial tasks, when it

596
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:40,439
Speaker 1: comes to how you handle bill pay or every single

597
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,640
Speaker 1: financial decision in your household. It doesn't have to be

598
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:47,200
Speaker 1: a clear cut delineation of fifty fifty. And that's because

599
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 1: often one person enjoys money tasks more than the other,

600
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 1: or maybe even uh is genuinely great with money. So,

601
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 1: for instance, if you're listening to how the money you

602
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,640
Speaker 1: might be the half of your relationship who is doing

603
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 1: the most heavy lifting in this area. And i's so

604
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 1: carefully you're both listening and you're holding hand, and everything

605
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 1: is getting better. Right. It's like a fireside chat without

606
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 1: the money. Yes, hopefully that's what you what you do

607
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 1: on your date night is you just listen to this podcast.

608
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 1: But yeah, we could say just make sure that you

609
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 1: aren't doing all of it, because it's helpful actually for

610
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 1: your spouse, your partner to have some exposure to the

611
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 1: household finances. It's time to come up with a proper

612
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 1: division of labor and decide who handles which money tasks.

613
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 1: And so, Matt, I know a lot of listeners might

614
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 1: be shocked. I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but that

615
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,679
Speaker 1: Emily does the budgeting in our household, and people will

616
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 1: be like, what, you're the money host, Like, why in

617
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 1: the world does she do that? And it's not because

618
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 1: I make her, but it's truly because she is better

619
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,719
Speaker 1: at detail oriented things than I am. I kind of

620
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 1: like run away from Excel spreadsheets, while she's like kind

621
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 1: of curious and doesn't mind doing them. And so yeah,

622
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 1: find out like where your strengths lie. And it's important

623
00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 1: that you're both incorporated into the finances in some way,

624
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 1: form or fashion, so that one person is not doing

625
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 1: everything and the other person is doing nothing. Yeah, it's

626
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 1: important to divide those tasks in a way that works

627
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 1: for both of you. And one of the benefits is

628
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 1: that it could potentially stretch you both in a good way.

629
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 1: You know, you might not be used to relinquishing control,

630
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 1: say of the Excel spreadsheet, like that might be temptation

631
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 1: that I might have, but that's probably good for me

632
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 1: to for kate not only to see that, but for

633
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 1: to have some control over that as well. And you know,

634
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 1: maybe your partner, maybe they don't want the added pressure

635
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 1: of handling the bill pay but that doesn't mean that

636
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 1: they shouldn't. And so the more cognizant that you both

637
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 1: are when it comes to your finances, the better off

638
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 1: your holistic financial situation is going to get over time.

639
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 1: Uh And and just keep communicating about this because you know,

640
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:46,920
Speaker 1: like these roles don't have to stay the same for forever.

641
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 1: Like you might enter a season where you're just really

642
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 1: busy and you used to handle paying all the bills,

643
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 1: but maybe you're you're in a season of life where

644
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 1: that's something that you have to to switch off on.

645
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 1: And also I think it depends on the type of

646
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 1: involvement as well, Right, And so I'm like, I'm thinking

647
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 1: of the month, the month tracking of our spending and

648
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 1: our saving. I mean, I probably do ninety five if

649
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 1: not of that, and I think that's okay. But it's

650
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 1: important is that I keep Kate updated as to what

651
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 1: those figures are and what those numbers are. But when

652
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 1: it comes to, like I mentioned earlier, like the bigger

653
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 1: conversation that we have at the end of the year

654
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 1: where we're setting goals for ourselves for the next year,

655
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 1: where we're deciding how much we're gonna put towards vacation,

656
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 1: how much we're gonna you know, set aside for kids clothing,

657
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 1: you know, how much we're gonna spend on maybe adding

658
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 1: a little master bath. These are things that she has

659
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 1: one percent involved in and I am one percent involved in.

660
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 1: Like it's something that we we don't debate, but we

661
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 1: are both very active. It's sort of like I was

662
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 1: saying earlier as far as like prioritizing the other person first,

663
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 1: and you're both kind of leaning into it. That is

664
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 1: just one of those times where we are both incredibly involved,

665
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 1: uh and rightly so, because that is when we're making

666
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 1: all of the hard decisions, and that's when we're setting

667
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 1: ourselves up for, you know, the different goals that we're

668
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 1: seeking after that coming year. Yeah. No, I like that.

669
00:30:57,760 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 1: I think it's important, and I think, yeah, you want

670
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 1: not just a proper division of money tasks, but some

671
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 1: of those tasks need to overlap, and you both need

672
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 1: to have input on those bigger goals that you have

673
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 1: because those influence where the money goes. And I would

674
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 1: say it's also a good idea to do a little

675
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 1: digging around and to ask yourself, why is it that

676
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 1: we've defaulted to handling money the way that we do.

677
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 1: Spending some time talking through your history with money. Maybe

678
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 1: it was like a money phrase to your parents always used.

679
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 1: That's like stuck in your brain and you can't get

680
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 1: it out. Money doesn't grow on trees, and you're like,

681
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 1: dang it there right now, I have to like pinch everybody.

682
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 1: And or maybe it was a financially jarring experience that

683
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 1: you found yourself in right after college. Maybe you did

684
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 1: get a credit card early on you graduated, you had

685
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 1: tons of student loan debts and credit card debts, and

686
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 1: you couldn't get a good paying job, and that feeling

687
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 1: haunts you to this day. Like, these different experiences shape

688
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 1: our views and they have a massive impact on whether

689
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 1: we are like spend thriffs or whether we are penny pictures. Uh,

690
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 1: And how much we decide to micromanage our financial decisions

691
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 1: or not, or whether maybe we even attempt to avoid

692
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 1: money conversations altogether. But yeah, understanding our own predispositions and

693
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 1: our partner's history with money is going to help make

694
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 1: any future arguments and discussions about money all that more productive. Yeah,

695
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 1: that's right. And on that note, has your partner ever

696
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 1: approached you with the my way or the highway attitude?

697
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 1: If so, this probably caused a fight that sort of approach.

698
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 1: I'm right, you're wrong. Yeah, Like, that's never gonna work

699
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 1: if you want to make any progress together. These different

700
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 1: power plays are gonna, you know, provide setbacks for your

701
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 1: relationship when it comes to making progress with your money

702
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 1: as a couple. And you know, one of the reasons

703
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 1: this might be happening is if one partner earns more

704
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 1: or even all of the income for the household. That

705
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 1: can be a route for money arguments. And assuming that

706
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 1: just because you make more money that you get to

707
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 1: decide where the money goes for the household is an

708
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 1: incorrect assumption. That approach will cause some arguments for sure.

709
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 1: It's incredibly unhealthy, and it's a reason why we think that,

710
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 1: especially once a couple gets married, it is worth combining

711
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 1: your finances altogether because it's not now going to be

712
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 1: your income and her debts. It is all of your

713
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 1: money altogether, and you're gonna make these decisions together. Yeah,

714
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,720
Speaker 1: I think that's definitely a cause for unhealthy dynamics, is

715
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 1: when one person makes more and they hold it over

716
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 1: the other partner. But that that of course is going

717
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 1: to cause money arguments. It's just not a healthy approach

718
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 1: to money. And so yeah, I think that that's really

719
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 1: the solution map that you just mentioned is treating everything

720
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 1: in common, holding everything in common. That's the key to

721
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 1: a successful long term partnership. And also, like there could

722
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 1: just be a general tension around the fact that you're

723
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 1: not able to get ahead with your money at all. Right,

724
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 1: it feels like you're not getting anywhere, You've got no

725
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 1: traction that can be another cause for money arguments. If

726
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 1: this is the case, you may not even be fighting

727
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 1: about money because you're on the same page. You've identified

728
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 1: shared goals, but because you're not achieving those goals, you're

729
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 1: just angry below the surface on a continual bait basis.

730
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 1: But it's just like spinning basically. It's sort of like

731
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 1: the train that had the you know, it's got the

732
00:33:57,600 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 1: tracks greased up. It's just sitting there and it's cranking

733
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 1: the cranking the wheels and not moving anywhere. Yeah, or

734
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 1: at the very least, maybe you're annoyed at your partner

735
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 1: and maybe you haven't even realized it until now. You're like,

736
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,839
Speaker 1: we keep having these chats and then no progress is made,

737
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 1: and it's just so frustrating that we have an ideal

738
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:18,399
Speaker 1: that we're trying to meet, but we never actually take

739
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 1: any steps to get there exactly. Yeah, I could see

740
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 1: this being like a more likely scenario if you know,

741
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 1: neither of you or your partner have an interest in

742
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 1: personal finance, or if neither of you are organized enough

743
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 1: to translate those those shared goals that you have into

744
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 1: a plan of action that you can execute. This is

745
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 1: when there's just no follow through. And so for example,

746
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 1: like you can't simply state that you want to be

747
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:40,279
Speaker 1: able to save some money to buy a house. You

748
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 1: need to get specific. So if you know that you're

749
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 1: gonna put down, then how much money is that going

750
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 1: to be? And then create an actual deadline so that

751
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 1: this is a goal that you're both working towards in

752
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 1: a in a timely manner. Like a non money example

753
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 1: that I'm thinking of is like, let's say you want

754
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 1: to meet up with some friends for drinks after work. Well,

755
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 1: any time you do that, you set a time. You're

756
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:02,400
Speaker 1: not just like all right, I'll see you have to

757
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 1: work for drinks, It's like, okay, which bar? Which bar? Time?

758
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 1: What time is that going to be? Like what day

759
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:09,279
Speaker 1: are we even talking about? Because you might have some

760
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 1: friends show up happen they happen to show up on

761
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 1: time because maybe you're got that brain melt going on.

762
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 1: It's like you know where to meet me, but like

763
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 1: some other friends might show up an hour late or

764
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,839
Speaker 1: at yeah, like at the wrong place. Well, anytime you

765
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:24,759
Speaker 1: make plans like that, you get specific. You say where

766
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 1: you're going to meet, and you say when you're going

767
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 1: to meet, And unfortunately, when it comes to our money,

768
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 1: we often aren't as specific with the goals that we're

769
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 1: striving after. We don't say when it is that we

770
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:36,840
Speaker 1: want to achieve that by because there's a huge difference

771
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 1: in saving for a down payment sometime in the next decade.

772
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 1: There's a big difference between that versus next spring, right,

773
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 1: because if you're saving for next spring, you are going

774
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:49,360
Speaker 1: to be really getting after it. There's gonna be some

775
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:51,880
Speaker 1: serious sacrifices in your life and that's gonna be reflected

776
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 1: in your budget. So it's important to get specific. Yeah,

777
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:56,439
Speaker 1: you don't want your friends showing up to the dive

778
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:58,879
Speaker 1: bar when you met the karaoke bar. Yeah, you gotta

779
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,360
Speaker 1: be specifical of stuff. And you don't want to be

780
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,799
Speaker 1: saving up for home down payment in theory. You want

781
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 1: to be saving forward in reality and and getting specific,

782
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 1: not just but then saying like, well, all right, what

783
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:12,799
Speaker 1: home purchase price fits into our price point? What's that?

784
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 1: This is the exact amount we need? How much money

785
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 1: are we gonna need to see save on a every

786
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:18,839
Speaker 1: two week basis in order to get to the point

787
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 1: where we have enough saved to buy that home? Yep,

788
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 1: that's the process. You're gonna want to go through to

789
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,840
Speaker 1: make it more tangible, more real, more specific. All Right,

790
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 1: we've got a few more things we want to get

791
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 1: to in this episode, including our best tips for how

792
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 1: to avoid some of these money arguments in the first place.

793
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 1: Will go through those right after this. All right, we

794
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 1: are back from the break and Jil. You know, we've

795
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 1: talked through some of the different arguments that many couples

796
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:53,680
Speaker 1: that they find themselves in, and we've talked about some

797
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 1: of the key steps that you can take in order

798
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:57,919
Speaker 1: to resolve those conflicts. But would it be better, even

799
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,439
Speaker 1: better if you were proactively leaning into some of these

800
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 1: differences before they even flare up into a money fight. Well,

801
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 1: we think that some preventative maintenance on your relationship might

802
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:09,759
Speaker 1: be the best approach, and so we're gonna talk about

803
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:11,879
Speaker 1: some of the best tips for how to avoid these

804
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:14,399
Speaker 1: arguments in the first place. And the first one is

805
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 1: that communication is key. Having just regular conversations, UH is

806
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 1: so important, and it's important to just what these conversations

807
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:25,239
Speaker 1: look like. We think that they can be more laid

808
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 1: back and even fun, like a budget party instead of

809
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:30,360
Speaker 1: Excel night. Which one of those do you want to

810
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 1: pay a part of which the budget party with a

811
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 1: with a bottle of wine or you know, a craft

812
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:37,480
Speaker 1: beer like that sounds like a lot more fun. And

813
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:39,719
Speaker 1: this approach is going to lead to that being something

814
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 1: that you both look forward to rather than something you resent.

815
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:44,799
Speaker 1: And over time, this will make money just much less

816
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 1: of a touchy subject. Over overall, we wants you to

817
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:49,719
Speaker 1: be intentional with that time uh. And so this also

818
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 1: means likely like turning off the TV uh and engaging

819
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 1: in a in a more intentional way and also put

820
00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:57,759
Speaker 1: it on the calendar. That is such an easy way

821
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:00,760
Speaker 1: to make this a repeating event that you bow continue

822
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:02,720
Speaker 1: to look forward to as opposed to it being something

823
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,960
Speaker 1: that you both dread. Yeah, and the more frequent these

824
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 1: conversations are, the less intense they become. If it's this

825
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,800
Speaker 1: like once a year's summit where you talk about money,

826
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 1: it's bound to be really really long and more volatile.

827
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 1: If you do a thirty minute forty five minute chat

828
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 1: once a month or every two weeks, it's bound to

829
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,800
Speaker 1: make that chat a little less daunting. And Yeah, another

830
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 1: another tip would be to talk money history, like go

831
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 1: back and discuss each other's childhood experiences with money, because

832
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:33,719
Speaker 1: that can unlock a lot of the beliefs that are

833
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 1: influencing the present your present day relationship really does. Like

834
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know that Freudyan to talk about

835
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:42,759
Speaker 1: how her childhood has impacted kind of the way you're

836
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 1: currently handering handling things, But it's true, like during your

837
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:49,400
Speaker 1: regular money conversations, explore some of those deeper money questions,

838
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 1: you can make it less nuts and balthy and a

839
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 1: little more like emotional and inquisitive. I feel like that

840
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 1: can shed a lot of light on your partner's current approach.

841
00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:00,160
Speaker 1: It can increase your empathy towards them as well, all

842
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:03,799
Speaker 1: like when I'm able to tell Emily like the part

843
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:05,360
Speaker 1: of the my weirdness with money is some of the

844
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:06,799
Speaker 1: stuff that happened to me when I was a kid,

845
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 1: And it makes sense, It clicks a little bit more

846
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:12,360
Speaker 1: about why I am the way I am, how I'm wired,

847
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 1: and so yeah, I woulday get curious about your partner,

848
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:18,239
Speaker 1: you know, instead of assuming they're trying to sabotage your

849
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 1: best efforts, try to see what's going on under the surface, right,

850
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 1: ask those helpful questions that so that you can better

851
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 1: understand their fears and their concerns. Part of that is

852
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:28,800
Speaker 1: the past. Part of that is their fears in the presence.

853
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 1: But those kind of conversations are gonna be kind of

854
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 1: really fascinating. They're gonna shed some light on your partner

855
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 1: in a context that goes beyond just pure dollars and cents.

856
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 1: That's right. Another tip that we think is important, we're

857
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:42,400
Speaker 1: gonna get empirical with it. You need to know the

858
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:45,239
Speaker 1: numbers because it is hard to make good decisions if

859
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 1: you don't know your income or if you don't know

860
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:49,800
Speaker 1: how much you've been spending. And so we want you

861
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 1: to look at the hard facts and figures together because

862
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:55,879
Speaker 1: that can help you to communicate more effectively based on

863
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:58,759
Speaker 1: what is actually happening in your life, not based on

864
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:01,320
Speaker 1: what you think is happening or what you hope is happening.

865
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 1: And so this takes things out of that theoretical world

866
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 1: and back to reality. Uh So, this goes back to

867
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 1: our point earlier about making sure that you both have

868
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,319
Speaker 1: tasks like you both are involved in your money. It

869
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:13,399
Speaker 1: can look different from couple to couple, but you both

870
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:15,400
Speaker 1: need to be involved one way or the other. Another

871
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 1: tip two is is how it is that you communicate

872
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 1: is so important. Uh and so recognize that blaming is

873
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 1: going to make things worse. You know, if you say

874
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 1: things like you always do that, that is not going

875
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:28,719
Speaker 1: to be helpful when it comes to the different conversations

876
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 1: you have about spending, and when you actually look at

877
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:32,839
Speaker 1: the numbers, you might be able to see, oh wait,

878
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 1: they don't always do that. That was in my brain.

879
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 1: I built it up. Yeah, that's right. These generalizations can

880
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 1: be easily debunked when you know the figures and so

881
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:42,400
Speaker 1: kind of going back to that one when you know

882
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:44,759
Speaker 1: the numbers. But nobody is going to be receptive to

883
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:47,879
Speaker 1: the you know, the blame game approach. Uh. If it's

884
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 1: you who is being a little more proactive here and

885
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:52,760
Speaker 1: you're starting the conversation around your money, you can admit

886
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 1: that there is work to be done, but lead by

887
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 1: admitting your own shortcomings. That approach can create the space

888
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 1: where your partner can then feel free to confess his

889
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 1: or her own faults as well. We want you to

890
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:07,320
Speaker 1: be humble when you had these conversations and not immediately

891
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 1: start pointing fingers. Isn't it amazing how just being able

892
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:12,799
Speaker 1: to admit something, confess something first to your spouse it's

893
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:15,000
Speaker 1: or it just lets their guard down and they're like, yeah, wow,

894
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:18,400
Speaker 1: like absolutely, I get it. You realize that you aren't perfect,

895
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 1: and so now I'm willing to admit that too. And Yeah,

896
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 1: A couple other tips here for having better money conversations

897
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,240
Speaker 1: is to remember that you're a team. And I specifically

898
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:30,839
Speaker 1: remember Matt Kate said this a couple of years ago

899
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 1: podcast She's really smart, and she said one of the

900
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:36,439
Speaker 1: most powerful things that she had to learn that helped

901
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 1: her to process when you guys didn't handle money how

902
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,760
Speaker 1: she ultimately thought you would, or how when you maybe

903
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:44,880
Speaker 1: made a purchase that didn't jive with kind of her

904
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 1: thoughts of where your your money was headed. She said,

905
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:49,439
Speaker 1: I just had to remember, like, we're a team and

906
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 1: we have to work together, and even when one of

907
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:56,080
Speaker 1: us does something that the other isn't all about, you're

908
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 1: still fighting for the same thing, and you have to

909
00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:00,880
Speaker 1: keep that at the forefront, uh, because that changes how

910
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 1: you respond in those situations. Instead of getting accusatory, instead

911
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:06,359
Speaker 1: of playing that playing game, you can say, you know what,

912
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 1: I know, We're on the same team. That's what matters,

913
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:10,400
Speaker 1: Like we can we can work through this. If you

914
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 1: start to approach your partner like they're on a different team.

915
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:15,920
Speaker 1: That's when you're setting yourself up for the most severe

916
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 1: kinds of money arguments. That's right. Not only is it

917
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:20,399
Speaker 1: going to be more effective to work together when you're

918
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:21,800
Speaker 1: on the same team, but it's also gonna be a

919
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 1: lot more fun as well. And one last tip that

920
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 1: we've got for folks here is that we would recommend

921
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 1: that you get help if it's needed, because sometimes things

922
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:32,040
Speaker 1: have devolved to the place where you can't have a

923
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:35,040
Speaker 1: healthy conversation with just the two of you, and so

924
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:36,520
Speaker 1: if that's the case, it might be time to bring

925
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 1: in the help of a trusted maybe like an older

926
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 1: couple who are friends of yours, or even a financial therapist.

927
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:44,719
Speaker 1: But if you just can't figure out how to communicate

928
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 1: without professional help, we want to make sure that you

929
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 1: are seeking it out. That doesn't mean that you've failed.

930
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 1: It means that you are taking your relationship seriously and

931
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 1: that you're both committed to moving forward within that relationship. Yeah,

932
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 1: sometimes that helpful outside third party perspective can be exactly

933
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:01,440
Speaker 1: what you need to kind to restore some sanity to

934
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:04,319
Speaker 1: those discussions. Yeah, but what we would say ultimately is

935
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 1: to remember that avoiding difficult money conversations. That's not what

936
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:12,000
Speaker 1: we're after, Like, we do want to see the elimination

937
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 1: of those knockdown, drag out fights about money. That's not healthy.

938
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 1: But it's important to note that progress is possible. It

939
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 1: might feel like money is this constant source of frustration

940
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 1: and tension in your relationship, but that doesn't mean that

941
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 1: there isn't light at the end of the tunnel. That

942
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 1: you can't work through this stuff. And it takes time

943
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:32,160
Speaker 1: to dig yourself out of a financial rut that you

944
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:34,359
Speaker 1: might find yourself in. Matt, I think you know when

945
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:37,280
Speaker 1: I hear people say that they got into debt, credit

946
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:38,839
Speaker 1: card debt over the course of ten years and they

947
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:40,400
Speaker 1: want to know how to pay it off in six months,

948
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:42,799
Speaker 1: and it's like, well, that's just unlikely, Like it took

949
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:44,360
Speaker 1: you a long time to get here, and it's going

950
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 1: to take a while to get out of it. The

951
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:50,719
Speaker 1: goal isn't to necessarily get money arguments to stop overnight

952
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:53,799
Speaker 1: cold turkey, but it is to work towards progress in

953
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:57,360
Speaker 1: your marriage or your long term relationship and in your finances.

954
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:00,160
Speaker 1: And so it's important to make sure to raise your

955
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 1: gaze to the common goals that you're pushing towards changing

956
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:05,279
Speaker 1: the way you talk about money really can improve your

957
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 1: overall relationship in a big way, not just your finances.

958
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 1: And so yeah, it's important. I think when we can

959
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:13,960
Speaker 1: communicate in a healthy way about a subject that affects

960
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 1: all of us in a big way, that sort of

961
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:18,880
Speaker 1: progress can translate to a whole lot of areas of

962
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 1: our lives and uh, interpersonally too. That's right, man, well said.

963
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:24,360
Speaker 1: Let's go ahead, get back to the beer that you

964
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:27,200
Speaker 1: and I enjoyed during this episode. And I think the

965
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 1: way that you pronounced this actually it's canna dankoa is that?

966
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:32,239
Speaker 1: How what do you think? Yeah, all right, I'll go

967
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 1: with you. You're done with that. I'll trust you on

968
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:37,280
Speaker 1: that again. This one was sent to us by Jason. Jason,

969
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:39,799
Speaker 1: we really appreciate you sending this one our way. We

970
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:44,239
Speaker 1: really enjoyed it. This was a classic cloudy hazy as

971
00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:46,440
Speaker 1: I'll get out double I p A and you know,

972
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 1: combined that hot tingly bitterness mixed with like that O

973
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:53,839
Speaker 1: J sweetness, all melted combined into one. The other half

974
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:55,800
Speaker 1: is actually a brewer that you and I have visited

975
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:58,479
Speaker 1: while we're up in Brooklyn, A couple of years ago.

976
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 1: Normally I'm where in my Other Half hat a good

977
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:02,839
Speaker 1: bit of these, uh this this time of the year,

978
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 1: but with my hair actually being longer, I don't need

979
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 1: to keep it out of my face. I just realized

980
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 1: I haven't warn the hat in like over a year. Now,

981
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:09,759
Speaker 1: I gotta get a backman. That's a good hat. It's

982
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:11,839
Speaker 1: a good one. Yeah. Well, I really like this one.

983
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:14,319
Speaker 1: I thought was like light, fluffy and hoppy like some

984
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 1: of some of these beers can be almost like palette domination,

985
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 1: like palette wreckers, and this one was like just bringing

986
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:24,120
Speaker 1: a bunch of different beautiful hop notes but not being

987
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:26,319
Speaker 1: like completely overwhelming. And I was surprised to see that

988
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:28,680
Speaker 1: it was a double I P A because usually those

989
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:30,919
Speaker 1: double I P s are a bit bigger. Uh, They're

990
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 1: a bit more of like a punch to the mouth,

991
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:34,399
Speaker 1: And this one was like, No, I was like, nice,

992
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:37,840
Speaker 1: a bit more finesse. Yeah, exactly. So I really appreciated

993
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:40,319
Speaker 1: this one. And I just like love everything I've ever

994
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:42,399
Speaker 1: had from Other halfs. I mean literally every beer we've

995
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 1: ever had from them is amazing. It's been great. Ye,

996
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 1: But yeah, I agree, Yeah, this beer at least you

997
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 1: said like Fluffy. I feel like it had like a

998
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:51,160
Speaker 1: nice airiness to it, like it had room for you

999
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 1: to breathe and think, uh, to approach it with finesse,

1000
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 1: just like the conversations you need to have with your partner.

1001
00:45:57,280 --> 00:45:58,839
Speaker 1: But Joel, I'm glad you know I got to share

1002
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:01,000
Speaker 1: this one. And thanks again into Jason for sending this

1003
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:03,640
Speaker 1: on our way. That's gonna be for this episode. Listeners

1004
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:05,319
Speaker 1: can find our show notes up on the website at

1005
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 1: how to money dot com and we'll make sure to

1006
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 1: link to that money Mission Statement for you to download

1007
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:12,799
Speaker 1: and print out yourself and hopefully that can get you

1008
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:15,840
Speaker 1: and your partner down the path of talking about money

1009
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:18,440
Speaker 1: in a proactive and healthy way. Yeah for sure. And

1010
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 1: if it does, let us know reach out to us

1011
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:22,479
Speaker 1: feed email. We always love listener feedback. But that's gonna

1012
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:24,759
Speaker 1: do it for this episode, Matt. Until next time, Best

1013
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:26,479
Speaker 1: Friends Out, Best Friends Out,