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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Charlie Pooth is a singer songwriter whose knowledge of

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Speaker 1: pop music runs deeper than your average chart topper. He

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Speaker 1: studied music production and engineering at Berkeley College of Music

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Speaker 1: and first gained widespread attention in twenty fifteen with his

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Speaker 1: ubiquitous single see You Again, a collaboration with Whiz Khalifa

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Speaker 1: for the Furious seven soundtrack. That song earned him his

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Speaker 1: first Grammy nomination. In fact, three of them since Denny's

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Speaker 1: released hits like Attention, We Don't Talk Anymore, and One

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Speaker 1: Call Away, while also writing and producing for other artists,

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Speaker 1: including co writing and co producing Stay for the Kid,

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Speaker 1: Leroy and Justin Bieber. His fourth album, his latest, Whatever's Clever,

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Speaker 1: comes out next month, and, as he'll reveal in this episode,

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Speaker 1: is his most honest and personal work today. On today's episode,

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Speaker 1: I'll speak with Charlie about making Whatever Clever and the

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Speaker 1: process of recording a song with Michael McDonald and Kenny Loggins.

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Speaker 1: He also discusses the sly way he convinced Kenny geta

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Speaker 1: appear on the album, and sits down at the piano

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Speaker 1: to demonstrate how gospel chords always have found their way

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Speaker 1: into pop music, revealing the harmonic foundations that shape his songwriting.

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Speaker 1: This is Broken Record, real musicians, real conversations. Here's my

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Speaker 1: interview with Charlie Booth at over to YouTube dot com

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Speaker 1: slash Broken Record Podcast if you want to see the video.

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Speaker 1: The new album is really really good.

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Speaker 2: Well thanks.

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Speaker 1: You went to Berkeley, Yeah, and I imagine there No,

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Speaker 1: I can't tell, but like you know, I imagine there's like

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Speaker 1: if you if you go to Berkeley, if you graduate

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Speaker 1: from Berkeley, there's like an audience you could be focused

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Speaker 1: on pleasing, if you if you're there, right, and then

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Speaker 1: you come out of there and you're in the pop

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Speaker 1: world and that's his whole own other audience that's might

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Speaker 1: have to worry about, sure, pleasing very different. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: it seems like you somehow land somewhere between the two.

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Speaker 2: Right. Well, I've always for even before I went to Berkeley,

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Speaker 2: when I went to Manhattan School, and I always wanted

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Speaker 2: to take what I learned in conservatory and apply it

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Speaker 2: to pop music because I always just got the most

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Speaker 2: visceral reaction from pop music, like listening to Lucky by

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Speaker 2: Britney Spears, my all time favorite artist, like Max Martin

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Speaker 2: production the drums being like sitting perfectly in the record.

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Speaker 2: There's nothing better than a pop record that you can

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Speaker 2: really crank up volume wise and just it won't pierce

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Speaker 2: your ears because the mix is so crispy and good.

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Speaker 2: But I would listen to you know, James Taylor. He

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Speaker 2: I learned how to play piano by listening to Fire

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Speaker 2: and Rain. And I'm listening to like a like like

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Speaker 2: the intro to Mexico that he performed in like nineteen

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Speaker 2: ninety three, and I'm like, this sounds is like kind

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Speaker 2: of a Brazilian influence. But this guy lives in the

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Speaker 2: berkshears in Massachusetts and he has a he's playing it

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Speaker 2: but it's a pop song, but it sounds like Antonio

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Speaker 2: Carlos Joe Beam, Like, oh, I get it. He's blending

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Speaker 2: all of these different worlds together, and he is Thus

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Speaker 2: James Taylor. I can blend different worlds together and be

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Speaker 2: influenced by different things, work with boys, two men I've

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Speaker 2: worked with James Taylor. I can work with X, Y

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Speaker 2: and Z and be influenced and be Charlie Pooth, which

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Speaker 2: is what I've always wanted to be. Yeah, which I

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Speaker 2: finally really am.

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Speaker 1: Now what do you mean by that?

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Speaker 2: Meaning, I feel like I always put a front up

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Speaker 2: the music, not musically but personality wise. That's why a

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Speaker 2: lot of people might know my music before they know me.

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Speaker 2: I never really gave them a chance to know me

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Speaker 2: because I was kind of maybe growing up and trying

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Speaker 2: on a lot of different hats, pretending to be a

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Speaker 2: lot of different things, like dyeing my hair blonde one

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Speaker 2: day and then shaving it the next day. I didn't

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Speaker 2: really give people a chance to get to know me.

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Speaker 1: When you're young, you don't even know yourself.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so how do you my frontal lobe developed twenty nine? Probably?

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Speaker 1: How old are you now?

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Speaker 2: Thirty four? So okay, relatively recent, relatively recently.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you felt the music was authentic? Do you feel

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Speaker 1: the music? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I felt the music was authentic. I just thought everything

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Speaker 2: else that came after it, I was fudging the truth

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Speaker 2: a little bit because I was maybe not advised correctly

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Speaker 2: that I needed to concoct some fake story or exaggerate

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Speaker 2: this little element to get people intrigued. When all along

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Speaker 2: my songs still are. People are discovering them like kids

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Speaker 2: born in twenty fourteen, or discovering we don't talk anymore.

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Speaker 2: For the first time and they like it just because

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Speaker 2: it's a good song. They're discovering how long and attention

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Speaker 2: and one call away all for the first time, just

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Speaker 2: based on the music.

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Speaker 1: The way that you were able to pick out James Taylor,

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Speaker 1: Like what made James Taylor James Taylor? By the time

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Speaker 1: you get out and you're signed to Atlantic, Like, did

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Speaker 1: you feel like you could just figure out pop music?

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Speaker 1: Like did it feel like I know what this is,

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Speaker 1: I know how to.

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Speaker 2: I knew what it was to me. I actually set

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Speaker 2: out to write songs for other pop acts. I never

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Speaker 2: in the back of my mind I wanted to be

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Speaker 2: the artist, but I wouldn't admit that to myself, so

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Speaker 2: I just kind of played a fake game of Oh,

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Speaker 2: I'll just be the song. It wasn't I shouldn't say

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Speaker 2: even say fake game. I wanted to write songs and

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Speaker 2: hits for other artists. I just didn't realize how badly

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Speaker 2: I wanted to be the artist. So I knew what

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Speaker 2: it was like to be in the studio with X

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Speaker 2: Y and Z and hear what they're working on and

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Speaker 2: trying to improve it or come up with something similar.

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Speaker 2: In that world, I got a really early glimpse on

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Speaker 2: what it was like to be an artist and like

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Speaker 2: what pop music was.

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Speaker 1: What was your early impression.

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Speaker 2: Well, I moved to la in the days of big

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Speaker 2: co writes and you know, double triple sessions. Starting a

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Speaker 2: session at seven o'clock in the morning after having just

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Speaker 2: left the Interscope studios at five o'clock in the morning,

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Speaker 2: I was like, I was grinding. So it was kind

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Speaker 2: of it was high tempo and dancy and all over

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Speaker 2: the place, lots of features, lots of syncopated rhythms like

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Speaker 2: and that might come back one day. There's like a

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Speaker 2: big nostalgic twenty sixteen trend going on right now. That's fair,

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Speaker 2: that's right, But I mean that's I think the music

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Speaker 2: industry changes every month now, really, yeah, it seems taste

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Speaker 2: seems to change. There are artists that are popping right

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Speaker 2: now that for the first time I'm not even aware

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Speaker 2: of I used to be aware of everything. I don't

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Speaker 2: know if that means I'm getting older what. I'm pretty

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Speaker 2: keen on everything that's going on. But my friend showed

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Speaker 2: me in our studies working on the other day, and

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Speaker 2: she has this whole little fan base growing on kind

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Speaker 2: of unusual sounding music and I was just like, wow,

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Speaker 2: I maybe five years ago I would have known about that.

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Speaker 2: But there's like fifteen other acts like that right now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you're having a kid, right, Yeah, I hate to yeah, yeah, three,

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Speaker 1: I hate to break it.

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Speaker 2: Right, it might be done. My hard drive is partitioned

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Speaker 2: right now, totally.

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Speaker 1: Like you might be late to the party a few

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Speaker 1: more times.

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Speaker 2: I don't mind being late to the party because I

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Speaker 2: can always show up late.

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Speaker 1: That's right, That's right. Yeah, you know, I know there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of people who have complaints about streaming, and

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Speaker 1: there probably is a lot that is. It does create

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Speaker 1: a lot of challenges. Yeah, but it does seem like

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Speaker 1: one of the real benefits of streaming has been the

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Speaker 1: way that people playlist things. And it's just like putting

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Speaker 1: a Billy Joel song next to a you know, shod

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Speaker 1: Day song, next to a Charlie Poot song next to

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Speaker 1: and it's just like so everything is on the table,

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Speaker 1: you know, forever for the listener.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely to your point. I I was reminded of an

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Speaker 2: amazing Billy Joel song the and so I don't know

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Speaker 2: the lyrics to anything, and oh it's so Billy Joel,

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Speaker 2: It's but I hadn't heard that song River of Dreams.

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Speaker 2: I hadn't heard that album, I haven't on a CD.

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Speaker 2: I just hadn't heard it in a long time, and

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Speaker 2: it just showed up. It started playing one day after

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Speaker 2: I was listening to I don't remember what the new

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Speaker 2: song was, but that that is one of the benefits

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Speaker 2: of streaming.

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Speaker 1: Not great things, but it's broken like the audience out

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Speaker 1: you know, like absolutely Michael McDonald, who's on your new album,

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Speaker 1: and Kenny Loggins. Yeah, you think about like those guys

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Speaker 1: and you know, they kind of got lumped into like

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Speaker 1: at some point it was like it was like it

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Speaker 1: was it still is. It's it was ao R album

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Speaker 1: oriented rock when they were around, and it became yacht rock.

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Speaker 1: It's like there was make an R and B you know,

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Speaker 1: like but they wouldn't have the white guys just make

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Speaker 1: R and B music. Absolutely God forbid, but.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely all all. But again here we go with the

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Speaker 2: taking it to the streets first chord. That is the

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Speaker 2: most gospely chord that that that is, that is the

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Speaker 2: chord of God. Right, there's like you can't sit down

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Speaker 2: and be like I'm going to write a song today.

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Speaker 2: It's that's gonna sound like no, this is like it's

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Speaker 2: just it's very hard to explain, and I'm still trying

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Speaker 2: to get better at explaining how music makes me feel.

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Speaker 2: But that's that that comes close to it. But I

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Speaker 2: do have Michael McDonald and Kenny Loggins on my album.

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Speaker 1: Did you have the song and then think this sounds

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Speaker 1: like something that we could get Michael and Kenny on

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Speaker 1: or did you reach out to them first and just

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Speaker 1: kind of open ended?

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Speaker 2: And I reached out to them and I said, let's

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Speaker 2: make a song in a very classic way, blank session,

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Speaker 2: and I was playing something. I think they thought it

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Speaker 2: was cool, and Kenny came over and whispered in my

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Speaker 2: ear quite loudly. In my ear. It was like, I

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Speaker 2: think you should let Mike play something. And I was like, absolutely,

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Speaker 2: I let me be the engineer. And Mike sat down

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Speaker 2: and started playing. Oh, and Kenny took it, and then

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Speaker 2: Kenny took a guitar and it was like I had

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Speaker 2: a microphone like this, and they then I started. I

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Speaker 2: just I wasn't the artist anymore. I was the engineer,

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Speaker 2: which I'm totally fine with. He was like, okay, record

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Speaker 2: this here is right, one, two, three four. I was like,

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Speaker 2: why are we recording that? And he was like put

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Speaker 2: it on top of it and I'm like oh, and

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Speaker 2: I remember there was this I think it was like

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Speaker 2: on Pretzel Logic Steely Dan really am you know a

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Speaker 2: lot of music, any major dude would tell you that

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Speaker 2: that albums Pretzel Logic. There was a snare drum that

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Speaker 2: I just I want my snare drum to sound like

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Speaker 2: that on any major dude and really dry, like a

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Speaker 2: Hey nineteen kind of there. And Kenny was like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: the song is called Love in Exile before the lyrics,

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Speaker 2: before the were lyrics. I'm like, what. But by the way,

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Speaker 2: that's happened to me before I wrote a song with

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Speaker 2: Katie Perry called Harley's in Hawaii. She came up to me.

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Speaker 2: She was like, this is the We're gonna write a

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Speaker 2: song called Harley's in Hawaii. And then Cash looked at

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Speaker 2: me with like you and I ride in Harley's in Hawaii.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, we're lit, or we're gonna.

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Speaker 1: Make the whole thing. But it's a great title.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a great title important to her. And

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Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, we're gonna make a song called

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Speaker 2: Love and Exile. Sounds like one of those the titles

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Speaker 2: of books you see at the grocery store when you're

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Speaker 2: checking out your food and like, oh, I'll get this

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Speaker 2: book by Dan something Love in Exile. It sounds really intense.

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Speaker 2: Are you sure? And he was like yeah, just like

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Speaker 2: and Mike's just started. He was like, Okay, I think

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Speaker 2: the prechorus should be what changed? And I'm like, Mike,

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Speaker 2: what changed? What? What? What change? And he goes, I

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Speaker 2: thought we were with it.

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Speaker 1: I thought in it.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, we were just communicating through song. And then

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Speaker 2: I find out they lived twenty minutes away from me.

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Speaker 2: I thought they drove like an hour because I live

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Speaker 2: up in Santa Barbara.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah. They were like he's right there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah I thought that, and they were like, no, do

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Speaker 2: you want to go get some lunch after? We like sure.

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Speaker 2: It was like the most casual, easy thing ever. And

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Speaker 2: I said, we'll finish this at Conway Recording Studios in Hollywood,

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Speaker 2: and that's what we did.

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Speaker 1: Oh man, And did you ever get back on keys?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I kept there was something about the energy that

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Speaker 2: I couldn't replicate from his playing, but I just added

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Speaker 2: I kept the roads like a road seventy three that

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Speaker 2: he played and then I just like, you know, sprinkled

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Speaker 2: some like you know those those kind of one twelve

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Speaker 2: sounding chords, and the bridge is out of control, like like,

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Speaker 2: how the hell did we get back.

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Speaker 1: To the b Those are amazing? There are a couple

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Speaker 1: of amazing bridges on this album.

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Speaker 2: They I can't take all the credit for writing that bridge.

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Speaker 2: That was really like the two of them in their

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Speaker 2: classic way getting together. They have a very modern approach

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Speaker 2: to writing songs. What makes it modern meaning that's like,

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Speaker 2: it's not outdated, it's just about the song. Just because

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Speaker 2: they've been doing it for a while doesn't mean that

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Speaker 2: they just stopped knowing how to do it. They are

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Speaker 2: better at it than ever, and they're very particular about

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Speaker 2: lyrics and like, well maybe we should approach this a

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Speaker 2: different and like I feel like I'm honestly with Max

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Speaker 2: right now. I feel like I'm in like you know,

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Speaker 2: some of the songwriters who had hits last year, like

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Speaker 2: they have. It's a song. A great song is a

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Speaker 2: great song.

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Speaker 1: They're not trying to capture.

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Speaker 2: No, they're not trying to They're not trying to be

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Speaker 2: like how they were forty years ago. They're just trying

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Speaker 2: to be them now and that's that's what makes them

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Speaker 2: still dope, and you know, playing on Thundercat records and

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Speaker 2: like why they're still regarded and like a really hit way.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no, that's a good point. And they still

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Speaker 1: sound great too, absolutely sound amazing.

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Speaker 2: There are a lot of good bridges on I'm Glad

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Speaker 2: you think so.

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Speaker 1: One of the first things I noticed, it's okay if.

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Speaker 2: You don't remember all the titles the songs cry, oh Man,

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Speaker 2: thank You. I was just listening to that with somebody

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Speaker 2: and I was at Conway. Just I live at Conway.

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Speaker 1: It's a long way from Santa Barbara.

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Speaker 2: It's a long way from That's actually one of the

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Speaker 2: simpler songs, one of the only songs that just has

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Speaker 2: four chords on the album. And blood Pop, my collaborator

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Speaker 2: on this album, was like, you know, you can get

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Speaker 2: any musician on your album, right, And I'm like, well,

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Speaker 2: I don't want to bother anybody, Like, no, anybody would

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Speaker 2: love to be on this album. You should call Kenny G.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't have Kenny G's number, Like, let's

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Speaker 2: get it. So, like before we do that, why don't

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Speaker 2: I have this program called Moyses A lot of it.

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Speaker 1: You know, I use that too.

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Speaker 2: I love Moyses and I found a YouTube video of

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Speaker 2: Kenny G playing a Christmas song or something, because I

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Speaker 2: could have easily gotten a soprano sax VST sound and

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Speaker 2: just like you know, it would, but it wouldn't have

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Speaker 2: sounded really that good. I like to work with audio,

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Speaker 2: so I opened it up in Moyses and isolated Kenny

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Speaker 2: G's soprano saxophone solo there and kind of laid it

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Speaker 2: out in the song as like a map, almost like

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Speaker 2: an audition, because I was so sure that.

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Speaker 1: He was a solo from a Christmas like some random me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. But then I transposed it solely. It's like no, no, no,

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Speaker 2: like like it was a completely different I was just

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Speaker 2: grabbing samples at that point, and it was just to

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Speaker 2: show mister Kenny G that, like I was serious and

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Speaker 2: like I took the time to put a soprano map

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Speaker 2: of what it could sound like if he did decide

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Speaker 2: to make a solo and play a solo rather on

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Speaker 2: my song cry because I had a really specific vision

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Speaker 2: for it. We had a very specific vision for it.

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Speaker 2: And my friend got his manager's number, I got Kenny's number.

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Speaker 2: I said Hey, no worries if you have no time

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Speaker 2: for this. But I took the liberty in mapping something

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Speaker 2: out of there what this could sound like. And he

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Speaker 2: was like, I'm going to be back from wherever in

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Speaker 2: a week. I'll take a listen to it and I'll

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Speaker 2: never forget. I'm in Goalita, California, going to the in

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Speaker 2: and out with my very hungry wife at the time

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Speaker 2: and me, who was also very hungry, and it was

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Speaker 2: five o'clock because that's what you do in Santa Barbara.

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Speaker 2: Five pm in Santa Barbara feels like ten pm. And

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Speaker 2: I get a call from Kenny g and he was like,

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Speaker 2: it's done. I had to record it right away. I

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Speaker 2: was actually home, no.

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Speaker 1: Way, no way.

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Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god. I called Blood and like,

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Speaker 2: we have the first feature on the record.

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Speaker 1: How close is it to what you had kind of

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Speaker 1: mapped out?

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Speaker 2: It was probably like seventy five percent there, Like there

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Speaker 2: was that I did the I'd melodyne that and then

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Speaker 2: he replayed it. It was just a trip hearing something

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Speaker 2: that I melodined, but then actually having the guy play it.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting because I mean, there's a world where he

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Speaker 1: could have been offended that you even you were like, well,

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Speaker 1: this is you know, Kenny, this is what I It's

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Speaker 1: either could be thanks because you know and now I

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Speaker 1: know where you want me to go with it, or

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Speaker 1: could have been like, why I'm Kenny, g why are you?

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I think I think he knew my heart was

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Speaker 2: in the right place for it, and I wasn't like,

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Speaker 2: you know, putting it over a rock song or something.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: It felt it had the big snare. It almost felt

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Speaker 2: like it's a very Michael Bolton Baywatch hair blowing in

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Speaker 2: the wind, running at you know, thirty two frames a

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Speaker 2: second whatever slow motion with these Chords records. Yeah, a

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Speaker 2: song for my dad.

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Speaker 1: That's for your dad.

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Speaker 2: It's about showing not being afraid to show emotion, which

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Speaker 2: I guess all of us can use that reminder sometimes.

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Speaker 2: But I wrote it a week before his mom had

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Speaker 2: passed away, and I didn't realize how much he would

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Speaker 2: need that song. So he's very grateful for that song.

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Speaker 1: You were super close to your dad growing up too, right.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, in terms of I'm still I'm still close

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Speaker 2: to my dad.

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Speaker 1: It's great to hear me because he was like a

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Speaker 1: big he was really big supporter supporter of your music.

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Speaker 2: Right, and my mom too number one support of my

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Speaker 2: mom and dad always pushing me, like my mom was

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Speaker 2: my first an R. I make the joke. She was

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Speaker 2: always brutally honest growing up. If a song I made

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Speaker 2: on my little sequence or on my NPC was good

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Speaker 2: or not, she'd be like, I would change this, this, that,

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Speaker 2: And I was like, Okay, I'm going to get better

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Speaker 2: at this.

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Speaker 1: We'll be back with more from Charlie Booths after the break.

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Speaker 1: Remember the first song you think, the first good song

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Speaker 1: you wrote, I.

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Speaker 2: Probably see you again. No, I really I think before that.

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Speaker 2: I think that's correct. Actually, I first, I think the

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Speaker 2: first good song. It's so subjective. I think my fans

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Speaker 2: from my early days of YouTube might hear my old

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Speaker 2: YouTube music and be like, oh, maybe that you're first.

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Speaker 2: Maybe something from there is like really great. But I

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Speaker 2: cringe at a lot of that old music.

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Speaker 1: What makes you cringe at that stuff? Because it's a

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Speaker 1: lot of people who really love that.

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Speaker 3: My voice sounded like this, I was really enunciating everything.

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Speaker 3: I had a deviated septumb at the time, and mysk,

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Speaker 3: the song's not good.

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Speaker 1: No, I mean I was really great. Ideas in those old.

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Speaker 2: There was a song on this little ep that I

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Speaker 2: put on band camp back in college, and I remember

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Speaker 2: I recorded the whole song in four thirty two hurts,

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Speaker 2: not four forty one, so it all sounded kind of

381
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Speaker 2: I was listening to a lot of Donuts by Jay

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Speaker 2: Dilla at the time, and I think it was called

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Speaker 2: full of It in the melody no No, And I

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Speaker 2: remember I played it for a teacher in class and

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Speaker 2: he was like, I'm really surprised. That was very nice

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Speaker 2: and as so maybe that was an inkling of a

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Speaker 2: first good song that I wrote. But when I wrote

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Speaker 2: the ear, I was.

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Speaker 1: Like, ah, that's how did how did that come? How

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Speaker 1: did that melody specific? Because it seems like it's that

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Speaker 1: melody that really well.

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Speaker 2: I always played a sample with that melody and then

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Speaker 2: we replayed it on the piano because that's it's so funny.

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Speaker 2: I remind myself that's the only time that happens in

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Speaker 2: the song, this little, this little iconic intro. You don't

396
00:21:12,876 --> 00:21:14,476
Speaker 2: hear it again after that.

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Speaker 1: I didn't even realize that until you just said it.

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Speaker 2: And it's been a long day and after I after

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Speaker 2: I took the chords, there's some things I can't explain

400
00:21:26,756 --> 00:21:29,556
Speaker 2: it just from God just fell down. It's been a

401
00:21:29,596 --> 00:21:34,276
Speaker 2: long day without you, my friend. And I'll tell you

402
00:21:34,356 --> 00:21:36,476
Speaker 2: all about it when I see you again. And we

403
00:21:36,516 --> 00:21:39,036
Speaker 2: all just looked at each other, Me Andrew Theater and

404
00:21:39,116 --> 00:21:41,756
Speaker 2: DJ Frankie, and we had just met each other. They

405
00:21:41,796 --> 00:21:44,196
Speaker 2: were working on a flow Rider record right before that.

406
00:21:44,636 --> 00:21:46,876
Speaker 2: I think it was like I happened in my notes saved.

407
00:21:46,916 --> 00:21:48,476
Speaker 2: I just saw a picture of it on my phone

408
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Speaker 2: from three o'clock in the morning. I just wrote the

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Speaker 2: lyrics down in my notes. Wow, it's a that was

410
00:21:53,716 --> 00:21:58,036
Speaker 2: a if that never, If that moment never happens again,

411
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Speaker 2: I'm totally fine because that was like an act of God.

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Speaker 2: It really was.

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Speaker 1: It's cool that you honor that song as much as

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Speaker 1: because you know, some people get kind of tired of

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Speaker 1: the you know, the hit that they have to play

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Speaker 1: and live with.

417
00:22:09,156 --> 00:22:13,276
Speaker 2: But it like no never never, certain songs. Yes, but

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Speaker 2: I mean, I just I grow. I used to hate

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Speaker 2: on my song Marvin Gay. I'm like, I don't like

420
00:22:19,196 --> 00:22:21,676
Speaker 2: that song. It's it's it's corny, it's and then I

421
00:22:21,716 --> 00:22:23,636
Speaker 2: listened to the production. It's kind of fun. It's like

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00:22:23,676 --> 00:22:26,796
Speaker 2: it's kitchy. It's of a time period. It reminds me

423
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Speaker 2: of going to la for the first time, but see

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Speaker 2: you again and one call away. I just I'm very

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Speaker 2: happy to play those songs for the rest of my life.

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Speaker 2: And that's, by the way, very churchy, and the live

427
00:22:47,876 --> 00:22:55,276
Speaker 2: version I do it's it's it's almost that you hear

428
00:22:55,316 --> 00:22:58,196
Speaker 2: that melody and you're like, I feel like I've heard

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00:22:58,196 --> 00:23:00,956
Speaker 2: that song before. It's like that song was written millions

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00:23:00,996 --> 00:23:02,756
Speaker 2: of years ago and I just found like a little

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00:23:02,836 --> 00:23:06,316
Speaker 2: portal and just pulled the star down and just brought

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Speaker 2: it back.

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Speaker 1: And also just the fact that your point, to your

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Speaker 1: point that that only happens once in the intro, that.

435
00:23:12,836 --> 00:23:19,356
Speaker 2: The little it's a hook in itself, and.

436
00:23:19,316 --> 00:23:21,436
Speaker 1: It's such a strong hook that in your mind you

437
00:23:21,436 --> 00:23:23,356
Speaker 1: think it occurs more than one way, more than like

438
00:23:23,876 --> 00:23:24,716
Speaker 1: a few times.

439
00:23:24,476 --> 00:23:24,876
Speaker 3: In this song.

440
00:23:25,316 --> 00:23:29,476
Speaker 4: That's it.

441
00:23:29,476 --> 00:23:39,716
Speaker 2: It was kind of modeled after a church song. Every

442
00:23:39,716 --> 00:23:42,156
Speaker 2: great song if you get take away the drums, I'll

443
00:23:42,236 --> 00:23:45,596
Speaker 2: take away all the background vocals, take away the organs,

444
00:23:45,716 --> 00:23:49,916
Speaker 2: the horns. I was listening to a lot of Jadakiss

445
00:23:49,996 --> 00:23:52,196
Speaker 2: at the time. You take all of that away, and

446
00:23:52,236 --> 00:24:04,836
Speaker 2: if you can just it, it works.

447
00:24:05,156 --> 00:24:09,556
Speaker 1: Wonderful gospel music big like big or small, is just

448
00:24:09,876 --> 00:24:11,476
Speaker 1: I don't know, man, it's gospel music.

449
00:24:11,516 --> 00:24:15,076
Speaker 2: He played a huge role into Simon and Garfunkle too,

450
00:24:15,356 --> 00:24:17,676
Speaker 2: And like you listen to and it makes sense when

451
00:24:17,676 --> 00:24:31,316
Speaker 2: you listen to Bridge over Troubled Water, that's that's a

452
00:24:31,316 --> 00:24:34,596
Speaker 2: gospel chord progression. That's all. Any anytime a little flare

453
00:24:34,636 --> 00:24:38,036
Speaker 2: of that isn't pop music. I believe it makes the

454
00:24:38,076 --> 00:24:39,076
Speaker 2: pop music better.

455
00:24:39,276 --> 00:24:41,796
Speaker 1: That was lay Neck tell. I think that did the

456
00:24:41,876 --> 00:24:43,436
Speaker 1: piano on Bridge of Trouble Water.

457
00:24:44,196 --> 00:24:46,076
Speaker 2: I would have been I don't know for sure. I

458
00:24:46,076 --> 00:24:48,236
Speaker 2: think you're you're correct, people.

459
00:24:48,316 --> 00:24:49,996
Speaker 1: I hope people fastiack me, but I think it is.

460
00:24:50,036 --> 00:24:51,956
Speaker 1: And you know, he would have grown up.

461
00:24:53,356 --> 00:24:58,876
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I can't remember who Paul Simon was listening to,

462
00:24:58,916 --> 00:25:00,956
Speaker 2: but he said he was listening to someone specifically.

463
00:25:01,036 --> 00:25:09,316
Speaker 1: I think that Dixie, Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. And there's

464
00:25:09,356 --> 00:25:11,996
Speaker 1: a gospel music's just amazing.

465
00:25:12,076 --> 00:25:12,916
Speaker 2: Remember what was that?

466
00:25:13,076 --> 00:25:13,196
Speaker 3: Uh?

467
00:25:14,196 --> 00:25:20,316
Speaker 2: What the movie with Lauren Hill singing joyful Sister Sister

468
00:25:20,436 --> 00:25:23,276
Speaker 2: act too like they're like people. That video was thirty

469
00:25:23,316 --> 00:25:26,436
Speaker 2: six million plays on YouTube. People have a deep appreciation

470
00:25:26,916 --> 00:25:29,196
Speaker 2: for all of those chords.

471
00:25:28,596 --> 00:25:28,756
Speaker 1: Like.

472
00:25:31,436 --> 00:25:34,796
Speaker 2: There's something that that that every anybody could be affected

473
00:25:34,836 --> 00:25:36,956
Speaker 2: by that they all didn't have to grow up in

474
00:25:36,996 --> 00:25:40,116
Speaker 2: the South or whatever. They just it's just about the

475
00:25:40,156 --> 00:25:41,036
Speaker 2: note values we.

476
00:25:41,076 --> 00:25:42,956
Speaker 1: Didnt think about. I mean you had voice to men

477
00:25:42,956 --> 00:25:46,276
Speaker 1: on job voice notes voice men third Uh that Matt

478
00:25:46,276 --> 00:25:49,036
Speaker 1: about thirty years ago, roughly. Yeah, as big as you

479
00:25:49,076 --> 00:25:52,316
Speaker 1: could possibly be. And absolutely there's like that in their

480
00:25:52,436 --> 00:25:54,476
Speaker 1: music and in their and in their hits.

481
00:25:54,596 --> 00:25:57,636
Speaker 2: Yeah, and all of the and all through the influence

482
00:25:57,676 --> 00:26:00,956
Speaker 2: of all their collaborators too. When and I was talking

483
00:26:00,996 --> 00:26:03,356
Speaker 2: to Jimmy Jam about this once when I was like,

484
00:26:03,396 --> 00:26:05,396
Speaker 2: you know, the coldest thing you ever did, Jimmy Jam

485
00:26:05,396 --> 00:26:07,876
Speaker 2: and he was like what I was like when on

486
00:26:08,036 --> 00:26:14,676
Speaker 2: Bend and knee when it started, that's the intro and

487
00:26:14,716 --> 00:26:17,316
Speaker 2: then the chorus goes to the one can we go

488
00:26:17,516 --> 00:26:19,436
Speaker 2: back to the days of love us?

489
00:26:21,596 --> 00:26:29,636
Speaker 5: Can't somebody tell me to got things by the way

490
00:26:29,756 --> 00:26:30,876
Speaker 5: they used to be?

491
00:26:31,476 --> 00:26:37,156
Speaker 2: There's Jesus here. The sense like it's all in its

492
00:26:37,236 --> 00:26:40,716
Speaker 2: DNA is gospel music. Yeah, And it's my quest to

493
00:26:40,756 --> 00:26:43,876
Speaker 2: find everyone's influences where it first started.

494
00:26:43,996 --> 00:26:46,596
Speaker 1: So when you're listening to the radio, is that how

495
00:26:46,636 --> 00:26:47,236
Speaker 1: you're listening?

496
00:26:47,556 --> 00:26:52,476
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it can be I mean it's jazz, gospel,

497
00:26:52,636 --> 00:26:55,476
Speaker 2: R and B. You can listen to Digging on You

498
00:26:55,516 --> 00:27:00,796
Speaker 2: by TLC nineteen ninety four off crazy, sexy, cool, Babyface

499
00:27:00,876 --> 00:27:02,396
Speaker 2: and La Reid.

500
00:27:02,716 --> 00:27:05,636
Speaker 5: Oh two Happy of the way I do.

501
00:27:07,556 --> 00:27:09,636
Speaker 2: All I can think about you?

502
00:27:11,596 --> 00:27:18,356
Speaker 5: No, no, no, no, no, no, the baby fun you you know.

503
00:27:17,116 --> 00:27:21,436
Speaker 2: That's like you could Bill Evans jazz pianists. We played

504
00:27:25,956 --> 00:27:29,276
Speaker 2: lay embellished like that. That's jazz to me.

505
00:27:29,556 --> 00:27:32,876
Speaker 1: What was the second chord on on D major?

506
00:27:34,716 --> 00:27:36,276
Speaker 2: I would have warmed up my voice had a known

507
00:27:36,396 --> 00:27:54,356
Speaker 2: I was singing, but you get the you get the feeling, no, no, no, no,

508
00:27:57,036 --> 00:28:04,116
Speaker 2: the and Babyface like can we talk Tavin Campbell for

509
00:28:04,436 --> 00:28:07,356
Speaker 2: Love to Know Your Name? And the bridge on that

510
00:28:07,556 --> 00:28:23,276
Speaker 2: is very gospel and I've been oh my poor voice.

511
00:28:27,676 --> 00:28:30,756
Speaker 2: It's what you would hear in a church. Yes, I

512
00:28:30,876 --> 00:28:34,876
Speaker 2: believe that the best music it can be the poppyist

513
00:28:34,916 --> 00:28:38,276
Speaker 2: of pop tark music. There's if it's great, there's a

514
00:28:38,276 --> 00:28:40,276
Speaker 2: little bit of gospel or jazz hiding in there.

515
00:28:40,476 --> 00:28:45,076
Speaker 1: Do you feel like gospel found its way mostly out

516
00:28:45,116 --> 00:28:48,436
Speaker 1: of pop music in the last decade decade.

517
00:28:48,156 --> 00:28:52,116
Speaker 2: And a half, I think so, like you hear, especially

518
00:28:52,116 --> 00:28:56,436
Speaker 2: in the nineties, and there was so much iconic cinematography

519
00:28:56,716 --> 00:29:00,796
Speaker 2: attached to soundtracks in the nineties. The Bodyguard. You listen

520
00:29:00,876 --> 00:29:03,676
Speaker 2: to I Am every Woman like a Whitney Houston.

521
00:29:04,476 --> 00:29:10,476
Speaker 5: I'm every woman everyone.

522
00:29:12,636 --> 00:29:14,956
Speaker 2: And of course that was done before and in the

523
00:29:14,956 --> 00:29:19,116
Speaker 2: prior arrangement, but it was brought into the Shaka one,

524
00:29:19,156 --> 00:29:21,436
Speaker 2: but it was brought to the next level even more so,

525
00:29:22,396 --> 00:29:25,356
Speaker 2: introduced to an entirely new generation at that time. And

526
00:29:25,396 --> 00:29:28,156
Speaker 2: they have a gospel choir on that song. Diane Warren

527
00:29:28,156 --> 00:29:30,756
Speaker 2: would write songs and there were and David Foster produced them.

528
00:29:30,756 --> 00:29:33,516
Speaker 2: There would be gospel choirs in the background. You listen

529
00:29:33,596 --> 00:29:36,156
Speaker 2: to a Britney Spears record, you listen to Lucky by

530
00:29:36,196 --> 00:29:40,396
Speaker 2: Britney Spears, there's a gospel choir, not super prominent, but

531
00:29:40,436 --> 00:29:43,196
Speaker 2: it's tucked in there. Maybe a better example.

532
00:29:42,876 --> 00:29:47,196
Speaker 5: Is when you want it the most, there's no easy.

533
00:29:47,396 --> 00:29:53,876
Speaker 2: Selene Dion, they do a whole.

534
00:29:53,516 --> 00:29:54,676
Speaker 1: Easy.

535
00:29:54,836 --> 00:29:57,476
Speaker 2: It's like it's there's a choir and the background tucked

536
00:29:57,556 --> 00:30:01,396
Speaker 2: under Selene, but you're just listening to Selene. They're supporting her.

537
00:30:01,476 --> 00:30:03,756
Speaker 1: He said the Bodyguard Wait in exile.

538
00:30:03,876 --> 00:30:10,276
Speaker 5: Everyone fall he love some times, some times is wrong,

539
00:30:10,956 --> 00:30:17,196
Speaker 5: and sometimes it's right. There comes upon well, no.

540
00:30:16,956 --> 00:30:18,396
Speaker 2: No, I messed it up.

541
00:30:18,716 --> 00:30:25,796
Speaker 5: It comes upon well we we access yeah, say shoot

542
00:30:27,436 --> 00:30:37,476
Speaker 5: h m hm, oh you've got to say.

543
00:30:41,316 --> 00:30:43,796
Speaker 2: And then you know the you know the bridge on that.

544
00:30:47,796 --> 00:30:53,036
Speaker 5: Ye no no no no no no no no no.

545
00:30:53,356 --> 00:31:03,076
Speaker 2: No, forgive me. I don't know the words. Sometimes you left,

546
00:31:04,076 --> 00:31:07,556
Speaker 2: sometimes you fright. That's that's why for the Super Bowl

547
00:31:07,556 --> 00:31:09,036
Speaker 2: I had the gospel choir on the field. I have

548
00:31:09,316 --> 00:31:12,716
Speaker 2: all the orchestra elements because I just I And that's

549
00:31:12,716 --> 00:31:14,876
Speaker 2: why it's all over my album too. I just I'm

550
00:31:14,916 --> 00:31:18,156
Speaker 2: obsessed with those chords. Like a C major is nice,

551
00:31:18,356 --> 00:31:19,316
Speaker 2: but when you add.

552
00:31:19,156 --> 00:31:22,076
Speaker 1: A little, would you add a little?

553
00:31:22,316 --> 00:31:30,916
Speaker 2: I think it's a nine bad little clusters. See that's

554
00:31:30,956 --> 00:31:33,876
Speaker 2: the only part where I fall off. I don't really

555
00:31:34,156 --> 00:31:38,076
Speaker 2: know the names of these chords. I just C major seven,

556
00:31:38,236 --> 00:31:46,396
Speaker 2: something a little clustered? Does it? Does it well?

557
00:31:46,476 --> 00:31:49,156
Speaker 1: So when you sit down the play, if you're just

558
00:31:49,196 --> 00:31:51,156
Speaker 1: at home and you just set the piano cause you

559
00:31:51,236 --> 00:31:53,876
Speaker 1: some reason is that typically the stuff you're playing.

560
00:31:53,876 --> 00:31:56,556
Speaker 2: It depends on you as of recently. Yes, do you

561
00:31:56,636 --> 00:32:00,756
Speaker 2: enjoy playing classical? I do, but not as much as

562
00:32:00,796 --> 00:32:04,396
Speaker 2: I like just freestyling. And I like nock turn and

563
00:32:04,396 --> 00:32:13,116
Speaker 2: C sharp minor by Chopan the just because of like

564
00:32:13,196 --> 00:32:20,516
Speaker 2: how all the notes fall, and I'm like.

565
00:32:21,556 --> 00:32:23,156
Speaker 1: It's the temperament of the piece.

566
00:32:32,836 --> 00:32:34,596
Speaker 2: You know what I mean? I don't know what any

567
00:32:34,636 --> 00:32:42,196
Speaker 2: of this is called. Yeah, etcetera, etcetera. There are people

568
00:32:42,196 --> 00:32:44,156
Speaker 2: who can play it ten times better than me, but

569
00:32:44,156 --> 00:32:48,516
Speaker 2: it's just the feeling that I get. Nothing makes me

570
00:32:48,516 --> 00:32:49,996
Speaker 2: feel better than being in front of us.

571
00:32:51,396 --> 00:32:52,676
Speaker 1: It seems to be clear that you do a lot

572
00:32:52,676 --> 00:32:53,516
Speaker 1: of listening.

573
00:32:53,436 --> 00:32:57,756
Speaker 2: And thinking and talking to myself. I love listening to music.

574
00:32:57,796 --> 00:32:58,956
Speaker 2: I love music so much.

575
00:32:59,156 --> 00:33:00,916
Speaker 1: Do you ever hear a song and feel like I

576
00:33:00,956 --> 00:33:03,796
Speaker 1: want to do? Did you ever hear a song sit

577
00:33:03,876 --> 00:33:06,476
Speaker 1: down and start playing it and then spin it and

578
00:33:06,516 --> 00:33:08,196
Speaker 1: do something of your own?

579
00:33:09,236 --> 00:33:13,636
Speaker 2: Yeah? That becomes complicated because you never want to take

580
00:33:13,716 --> 00:33:16,236
Speaker 2: something because then you like, then it's not your song.

581
00:33:16,676 --> 00:33:21,196
Speaker 2: But I mean, I haven't done that recently because on

582
00:33:21,796 --> 00:33:24,276
Speaker 2: this album it was all about It was kind of

583
00:33:24,556 --> 00:33:26,916
Speaker 2: and I had to really force myself. Blood Pop helped me,

584
00:33:27,156 --> 00:33:29,156
Speaker 2: like get there. I had to really force myself to

585
00:33:29,156 --> 00:33:31,796
Speaker 2: put the life experience first. Hey, you should write a

586
00:33:31,836 --> 00:33:35,356
Speaker 2: song about your dad, no melody in mind? What would

587
00:33:35,396 --> 00:33:38,836
Speaker 2: the lyrics be? And then the next day, let's figure

588
00:33:38,836 --> 00:33:40,276
Speaker 2: out what the music is going to be. I was

589
00:33:40,396 --> 00:33:43,556
Speaker 2: very uncomfortable with that, but I like being uncomfortable because

590
00:33:43,596 --> 00:33:44,716
Speaker 2: that's how I get comfortable.

591
00:33:45,236 --> 00:33:48,636
Speaker 1: And that was Blood Pop's influence on absolutely this album.

592
00:33:48,676 --> 00:33:50,836
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I had it took a year to allow

593
00:33:50,876 --> 00:33:53,116
Speaker 2: myself to get there, which is why I've been kind

594
00:33:53,116 --> 00:33:55,676
Speaker 2: of gone a little bit. I haven't I haven't put

595
00:33:55,676 --> 00:33:57,596
Speaker 2: out an album in three years.

596
00:33:58,756 --> 00:34:05,796
Speaker 1: One last break and we're back with Charlie Booth. I

597
00:34:05,876 --> 00:34:09,876
Speaker 1: was thinking about, might get the title wrong, but it's

598
00:34:09,996 --> 00:34:13,276
Speaker 1: it's an essence. It's never never meet your heroes.

599
00:34:13,476 --> 00:34:18,476
Speaker 2: Yeah, don't meet you, don't meet your heroes. Perfect. They

600
00:34:20,596 --> 00:34:25,476
Speaker 2: six Stay Time Big Orchestra, nineteen people in that orchestra

601
00:34:25,556 --> 00:34:31,476
Speaker 2: we recorded at Conway. Yeah, that came up. That's a

602
00:34:31,476 --> 00:34:35,196
Speaker 2: great example that came about from a conversation I was

603
00:34:35,236 --> 00:34:38,036
Speaker 2: having with Blood about the time I met someone who

604
00:34:38,076 --> 00:34:43,276
Speaker 2: I really looked up to and was so excited to

605
00:34:43,516 --> 00:34:45,116
Speaker 2: drive up to their house and then I met them

606
00:34:45,156 --> 00:34:46,996
Speaker 2: and it was like maybe they were having a bad day.

607
00:34:47,076 --> 00:34:48,516
Speaker 2: I don't know what it was, but it was just

608
00:34:48,596 --> 00:34:52,676
Speaker 2: the vibe was terrible and it didn't like it kind

609
00:34:52,716 --> 00:34:55,396
Speaker 2: of ruined it for me because someone I've like, you know,

610
00:34:55,556 --> 00:34:58,796
Speaker 2: just admired in all sorts of ways. It's just like

611
00:34:58,876 --> 00:35:02,956
Speaker 2: it wasn't ruined, and I just I just like it

612
00:35:02,956 --> 00:35:05,756
Speaker 2: felt like growing up in like twenty minutes, like, Okay,

613
00:35:05,796 --> 00:35:08,516
Speaker 2: it's not all the world's not all perfect.

614
00:35:09,156 --> 00:35:10,356
Speaker 1: Your illusions shattered a bit.

615
00:35:10,516 --> 00:35:13,276
Speaker 2: Yeah, don't meet your heroes. It's they're not as they seem.

616
00:35:13,316 --> 00:35:15,196
Speaker 2: I just should have kept them on my TV screen

617
00:35:15,516 --> 00:35:17,156
Speaker 2: kind of, it wasn't. That's a little bit of a

618
00:35:17,196 --> 00:35:18,676
Speaker 2: fudgy lie. I wasn't watching TV.

619
00:35:18,876 --> 00:35:21,076
Speaker 1: But well, and then there's another great line that's more

620
00:35:21,276 --> 00:35:25,436
Speaker 1: fudgy lie. It's another line that's something like, you don't

621
00:35:25,436 --> 00:35:28,036
Speaker 1: meet your heroes unless you know you all.

622
00:35:28,156 --> 00:35:30,876
Speaker 2: Yeah, don't meet your heroes without knowing yourself.

623
00:35:30,876 --> 00:35:31,756
Speaker 1: I'm knowing yourself.

624
00:35:31,956 --> 00:35:36,276
Speaker 2: Yeah, dramatic. The reason why I said that is because

625
00:35:36,276 --> 00:35:38,996
Speaker 2: if I think if I had met this person later

626
00:35:39,916 --> 00:35:43,436
Speaker 2: in my thirties, it wouldn't have affected me so viscerally.

627
00:35:43,796 --> 00:35:47,436
Speaker 2: I'd be like, oh, that's okay. You probably there's you

628
00:35:47,476 --> 00:35:49,356
Speaker 2: have your life and I have my life. I'm not

629
00:35:50,076 --> 00:35:52,556
Speaker 2: keen to everything that's going on. I'm not hip to

630
00:35:52,996 --> 00:35:55,316
Speaker 2: everything that's going on in your life. It's it's okay,

631
00:35:56,036 --> 00:36:00,156
Speaker 2: we'll put a pin in this. Butteen twenty three, being

632
00:36:00,236 --> 00:36:03,196
Speaker 2: in LA and having access suddenly and all these people

633
00:36:03,316 --> 00:36:05,676
Speaker 2: want to come meet you, and then you meet them

634
00:36:05,676 --> 00:36:08,036
Speaker 2: and they're some are amazing and then some are just

635
00:36:08,076 --> 00:36:09,116
Speaker 2: like kind of a letdown?

636
00:36:09,236 --> 00:36:11,036
Speaker 1: Who were some of the amazing people? Because I know

637
00:36:11,076 --> 00:36:13,076
Speaker 1: you've got I mean, you've there's people you've really looked

638
00:36:13,156 --> 00:36:15,116
Speaker 1: up to that you've gotten to know, and it seems

639
00:36:15,116 --> 00:36:16,116
Speaker 1: like it's been really positive.

640
00:36:16,156 --> 00:36:19,836
Speaker 2: I think when when when Bruce Springsteen called me after

641
00:36:20,156 --> 00:36:23,756
Speaker 2: I had sang his song somewhere and a seven three

642
00:36:23,756 --> 00:36:26,236
Speaker 2: to two number popped up. I don't want to blow

643
00:36:26,276 --> 00:36:27,516
Speaker 2: up a spot, but I have a seven three to

644
00:36:27,516 --> 00:36:31,636
Speaker 2: two number. Yeah, that's right. And I think when Billy

645
00:36:31,716 --> 00:36:34,476
Speaker 2: Joel called me personally asked if i'd open up for him.

646
00:36:34,516 --> 00:36:37,316
Speaker 2: This is a long time ago getting to play beat

647
00:36:37,356 --> 00:36:41,796
Speaker 2: yourself up for Max Martin leating knowing Max for ten

648
00:36:41,876 --> 00:36:45,716
Speaker 2: years and not really we've never like officially like worked together,

649
00:36:45,756 --> 00:36:48,836
Speaker 2: but just just having that relationship of like even if

650
00:36:48,876 --> 00:36:51,236
Speaker 2: two months go by, like I can call him and

651
00:36:51,436 --> 00:36:54,596
Speaker 2: he can give me advice, Like he's given me great

652
00:36:54,636 --> 00:36:57,996
Speaker 2: advice about like what I maybe could explore musically?

653
00:36:58,316 --> 00:37:00,956
Speaker 1: What is he he held you to explore?

654
00:37:01,076 --> 00:37:03,676
Speaker 2: He called me once and said, do you know what

655
00:37:03,716 --> 00:37:06,596
Speaker 2: I miss, and I said, well, what's that? He was

656
00:37:06,596 --> 00:37:12,076
Speaker 2: like the emotion in some of these records. Sometimes I

657
00:37:12,836 --> 00:37:16,636
Speaker 2: liked it when, like I really felt like I could

658
00:37:16,636 --> 00:37:19,796
Speaker 2: feel what you were singing about and I couldn't even

659
00:37:19,836 --> 00:37:23,316
Speaker 2: hear the lyrics, like it was something I'm paraphrasing, it

660
00:37:23,356 --> 00:37:25,636
Speaker 2: was something to that extent, And then I ended up

661
00:37:25,636 --> 00:37:28,796
Speaker 2: starting this album based on that, based on that.

662
00:37:29,036 --> 00:37:30,876
Speaker 1: Some of that going on in this album Lookause even Cry,

663
00:37:31,076 --> 00:37:32,916
Speaker 1: like there's a moment and I know you have perfect pitch,

664
00:37:32,916 --> 00:37:34,156
Speaker 1: so and I actually want to ask you about that.

665
00:37:34,196 --> 00:37:35,956
Speaker 1: I don't know how that impacts how you feel about

666
00:37:35,996 --> 00:37:38,716
Speaker 1: your own performance sometimes, but like on that song Cry,

667
00:37:39,036 --> 00:37:42,956
Speaker 1: there's a moment of opening few lyrics, like your voice

668
00:37:42,996 --> 00:37:43,916
Speaker 1: sounds very.

669
00:37:44,356 --> 00:37:46,116
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I knew it was something I knew I

670
00:37:46,276 --> 00:37:48,076
Speaker 2: was and that was the first time I had sung

671
00:37:48,196 --> 00:37:50,876
Speaker 2: that lyric. I didn't re sing that that it was.

672
00:37:51,596 --> 00:37:53,996
Speaker 2: I knew that I was writing about my dad and

673
00:37:54,316 --> 00:37:56,356
Speaker 2: like a message to my dad, because I had already

674
00:37:56,436 --> 00:38:00,396
Speaker 2: seen him experienced the loss of his mother, who lived

675
00:38:00,676 --> 00:38:04,396
Speaker 2: ninety four years old, a wonderful, beautiful life, but I

676
00:38:04,556 --> 00:38:08,596
Speaker 2: never had written a song for him, and these chords

677
00:38:08,676 --> 00:38:13,876
Speaker 2: even sounded like Dad, This is for you, Like, that's

678
00:38:13,916 --> 00:38:16,676
Speaker 2: what those chords sound like to me, without any lyrics written.

679
00:38:16,716 --> 00:38:21,276
Speaker 2: So the emotion was it was in the box right away, and.

680
00:38:21,236 --> 00:38:23,956
Speaker 1: You didn't redo the top of that song.

681
00:38:24,396 --> 00:38:27,636
Speaker 2: No, I added layers, but I didn't redo the lead vocal.

682
00:38:27,836 --> 00:38:30,436
Speaker 1: It's really stunning because it is like it stands out,

683
00:38:30,756 --> 00:38:32,476
Speaker 1: you know, it stands out as something. It feels you

684
00:38:32,516 --> 00:38:34,356
Speaker 1: can it feels like a moment you know.

685
00:38:34,356 --> 00:38:36,596
Speaker 2: That you're That's that's what I was hoping for.

686
00:38:36,836 --> 00:38:39,636
Speaker 1: Having perfect pitch. I've always been curious because I have

687
00:38:39,916 --> 00:38:41,916
Speaker 1: a baby right now. You can hell, how old is

688
00:38:41,956 --> 00:38:43,196
Speaker 1: your baby? Five months old?

689
00:38:43,276 --> 00:38:44,556
Speaker 2: Oh Congress, that's amazing.

690
00:38:44,596 --> 00:38:46,796
Speaker 1: And so sometimes I'm up middle of the night just

691
00:38:46,836 --> 00:38:49,436
Speaker 1: doing like ear training next to her because I've read

692
00:38:49,556 --> 00:38:51,636
Speaker 1: that you can teach babies to have perfect pitch. So

693
00:38:51,676 --> 00:38:53,716
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, like, I'm gonna,

694
00:38:53,756 --> 00:38:55,076
Speaker 1: you know, I'm gonna see what I can do here.

695
00:38:55,116 --> 00:38:55,276
Speaker 1: You know.

696
00:38:55,356 --> 00:38:56,876
Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't have to force it, though. I think

697
00:38:56,916 --> 00:38:59,276
Speaker 2: the best thing you can do is just play music

698
00:38:59,436 --> 00:39:03,716
Speaker 2: a lot, because their minds are sponges right having perfect pitches.

699
00:39:04,516 --> 00:39:07,236
Speaker 2: There are amazing musicians who don't even know how to

700
00:39:07,276 --> 00:39:10,196
Speaker 2: read music. Or play instruments and make the best music ever.

701
00:39:10,276 --> 00:39:12,556
Speaker 2: It's just kind of a nice thing to have.

702
00:39:12,756 --> 00:39:14,636
Speaker 1: Is it ever an impediment? Though? Like can you listen

703
00:39:14,716 --> 00:39:16,556
Speaker 1: to like a The Loneous Monk song and be like

704
00:39:16,956 --> 00:39:18,436
Speaker 1: or is it just like pain painful?

705
00:39:18,436 --> 00:39:20,516
Speaker 2: Because I mean you saw me. I mean this piano

706
00:39:20,596 --> 00:39:23,996
Speaker 2: is imperfectly it is imperfectly tuned, and you saw me

707
00:39:24,076 --> 00:39:26,556
Speaker 2: wins at it. But I've you know, I got over

708
00:39:26,596 --> 00:39:28,916
Speaker 2: myself so and now I'm used to it. Yeah, because

709
00:39:28,956 --> 00:39:32,596
Speaker 2: I already have OCD diagnosed OCD and I really care

710
00:39:32,636 --> 00:39:35,996
Speaker 2: about the details and my new details about everything, and

711
00:39:36,036 --> 00:39:41,076
Speaker 2: I feel like the perfect pitch may make me want

712
00:39:41,116 --> 00:39:43,636
Speaker 2: to make things a little too perfect sometimes. So it's

713
00:39:43,636 --> 00:39:46,236
Speaker 2: great to have collaborators who either have it and are

714
00:39:46,236 --> 00:39:48,516
Speaker 2: cognizant of like not making it too perfect, or don't

715
00:39:48,516 --> 00:39:51,036
Speaker 2: have it at all, or might not even play an instrument,

716
00:39:51,116 --> 00:39:53,196
Speaker 2: or like no, just make it simple, like I That's

717
00:39:53,236 --> 00:39:55,156
Speaker 2: why I love collaboration for that reason.

718
00:39:55,436 --> 00:39:57,756
Speaker 1: Are you able to hear songs like like you Know

719
00:39:57,876 --> 00:40:00,436
Speaker 1: Dylan or like The Loneous Monk, Like you're able to

720
00:40:00,476 --> 00:40:03,196
Speaker 1: hear the beauty in those songs even though they might

721
00:40:03,236 --> 00:40:05,156
Speaker 1: not be massing to say like, no, I don't think

722
00:40:05,156 --> 00:40:07,076
Speaker 1: Bob Dylan's songs are great, but no.

723
00:40:06,876 --> 00:40:09,356
Speaker 2: But there's like, is it that's so funny? You're I

724
00:40:09,436 --> 00:40:12,236
Speaker 2: was just talking about this with another artist just right

725
00:40:12,276 --> 00:40:18,156
Speaker 2: before this too. And I will watch all the talent

726
00:40:18,236 --> 00:40:21,996
Speaker 2: competitions and I'll hear there are so many better singers

727
00:40:22,036 --> 00:40:25,956
Speaker 2: than me, and I can hear them sing the phone

728
00:40:25,996 --> 00:40:29,556
Speaker 2: Book perfectly, hit every run, crisp and perfect. But I'm

729
00:40:29,556 --> 00:40:32,316
Speaker 2: not getting any emotion out of it. I'm not going

730
00:40:32,396 --> 00:40:36,356
Speaker 2: to be interested in it. Ultimately, I'd rather hear Dylan.

731
00:40:36,676 --> 00:40:38,676
Speaker 2: I don't know a whole lot about dylan songs, but

732
00:40:38,716 --> 00:40:41,556
Speaker 2: if I did, I'd rather hear him sing off pitch

733
00:40:42,036 --> 00:40:45,116
Speaker 2: and sing it with conviction so I can really feel

734
00:40:45,276 --> 00:40:48,756
Speaker 2: what he's singing about. I'm not really looking for him to,

735
00:40:49,396 --> 00:40:51,316
Speaker 2: you know. Mariah Carey is a good example of somebody

736
00:40:51,356 --> 00:40:57,036
Speaker 2: who can sing around the sun but has some restraint

737
00:40:57,476 --> 00:40:59,996
Speaker 2: for the rest of us who can't do that. Makes

738
00:41:00,116 --> 00:41:02,436
Speaker 2: That's why she has had so much success, that she's

739
00:41:02,476 --> 00:41:05,556
Speaker 2: able to make music that's kind of universal for everybody.

740
00:41:05,636 --> 00:41:06,556
Speaker 1: Think she pulls it back.

741
00:41:06,916 --> 00:41:09,716
Speaker 2: I think she pulls it back, and then there are

742
00:41:09,756 --> 00:41:12,516
Speaker 2: moments when she needs to hit the whistletone like on

743
00:41:12,636 --> 00:41:15,516
Speaker 2: Dream Lover. She can she can do it, but she's

744
00:41:15,556 --> 00:41:19,116
Speaker 2: not starting the record off with it. She's That's why

745
00:41:19,116 --> 00:41:21,876
Speaker 2: Whitney was great too. Whitney. There will probably never be

746
00:41:22,076 --> 00:41:26,996
Speaker 2: another singer like Whitney in our lifetime. She grew up

747
00:41:26,996 --> 00:41:29,716
Speaker 2: in Nowork, the first New Jersey native to sing the

748
00:41:29,796 --> 00:41:31,916
Speaker 2: national anthem at the Super Bowl, and I was the second.

749
00:41:32,116 --> 00:41:33,636
Speaker 1: No pressure man, no pressure.

750
00:41:34,196 --> 00:41:37,276
Speaker 2: I wasn't as good as a singer as there, but

751
00:41:38,076 --> 00:41:41,476
Speaker 2: she was able to. It's just like this fine line.

752
00:41:41,796 --> 00:41:46,756
Speaker 2: She was so proficient vocally but made it so palatable

753
00:41:46,836 --> 00:41:51,636
Speaker 2: for people who can't even sing. Everybody can feel. Everyone

754
00:41:51,756 --> 00:41:53,476
Speaker 2: feels like I to sing when they listen to Whitney.

755
00:41:53,476 --> 00:41:55,476
Speaker 1: It's interesting to bring up Whitney because the first two

756
00:41:56,236 --> 00:41:57,796
Speaker 1: tracks on your album, which I think of the first

757
00:41:57,796 --> 00:41:58,996
Speaker 1: two singles.

758
00:41:58,636 --> 00:42:00,676
Speaker 2: Yeah Changes and beat Yourself Up, it.

759
00:42:00,756 --> 00:42:03,876
Speaker 1: Kind of reminds me of like Whitney about like like

760
00:42:04,076 --> 00:42:05,556
Speaker 1: you know, in terms of like they just go a

761
00:42:05,556 --> 00:42:07,756
Speaker 1: lot of places, you know, like the way right, Like

762
00:42:07,836 --> 00:42:10,716
Speaker 1: he's yes on a movement.

763
00:42:10,396 --> 00:42:13,636
Speaker 2: A lot of movement, a lot of packed with instrumentation,

764
00:42:14,076 --> 00:42:15,116
Speaker 2: but not not.

765
00:42:15,116 --> 00:42:17,596
Speaker 1: Too much, not too big, not busy, you know, it's

766
00:42:17,596 --> 00:42:18,116
Speaker 1: like it's like.

767
00:42:18,236 --> 00:42:21,276
Speaker 2: It's like the album is constantly other than a couple

768
00:42:21,356 --> 00:42:23,956
Speaker 2: songs like beat Yourself Up is like constantly if it

769
00:42:23,996 --> 00:42:26,316
Speaker 2: went here too much, Yeah, and it did go here

770
00:42:26,356 --> 00:42:27,796
Speaker 2: and I had to pull it back when I was

771
00:42:27,836 --> 00:42:29,996
Speaker 2: mixing it with Manny, but like it hits here and then.

772
00:42:30,236 --> 00:42:31,836
Speaker 1: Well, it's like I want to dance with somebody could

773
00:42:31,876 --> 00:42:35,716
Speaker 1: like absolutely very easily, you know, spill over into too much,

774
00:42:35,716 --> 00:42:36,996
Speaker 1: but it's it's but it's perfect.

775
00:42:37,116 --> 00:42:39,756
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there's I think there's a way to

776
00:42:40,756 --> 00:42:46,036
Speaker 2: nudge at your influences without completely taking the art. It's

777
00:42:46,076 --> 00:42:49,436
Speaker 2: that you're you're able to listen to Rick Astley never

778
00:42:49,516 --> 00:42:51,516
Speaker 2: going to give you up, and you're able to listen

779
00:42:51,596 --> 00:42:53,796
Speaker 2: to I want to Dance with Somebody. But it's just

780
00:42:53,876 --> 00:42:56,716
Speaker 2: about like a feeling that those songs gave you. When

781
00:42:56,756 --> 00:42:58,036
Speaker 2: you want that feeling.

782
00:42:57,956 --> 00:43:00,676
Speaker 1: Capture that feeling. Yeah, yeah, I want to go back

783
00:43:00,716 --> 00:43:04,636
Speaker 1: to the National anthem. Yeah, with a mutual friend in

784
00:43:05,156 --> 00:43:05,636
Speaker 1: Eric Vitra.

785
00:43:06,036 --> 00:43:06,916
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's my guy.

786
00:43:07,116 --> 00:43:08,716
Speaker 1: Eric's amazing dude.

787
00:43:08,476 --> 00:43:11,476
Speaker 2: Amazing dude, such a like I've never seen him frown.

788
00:43:11,436 --> 00:43:13,636
Speaker 1: The nice, the greatest, the best, that one of the

789
00:43:13,676 --> 00:43:15,916
Speaker 1: most I study with him or he's just he's he's

790
00:43:15,956 --> 00:43:17,796
Speaker 1: given he's giving me a lesson before and he's like

791
00:43:17,876 --> 00:43:20,196
Speaker 1: offered to keep going. And it felt like, you know,

792
00:43:20,316 --> 00:43:21,956
Speaker 1: like I don't want I don't want to waste his time.

793
00:43:21,996 --> 00:43:23,636
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the kind of that's the kind of person

794
00:43:23,676 --> 00:43:25,676
Speaker 2: he is. He doesn't think it's a waste of time.

795
00:43:25,756 --> 00:43:30,076
Speaker 2: He's is so in love with teaching and he's been

796
00:43:30,076 --> 00:43:31,916
Speaker 2: doing it for such a long time that like he

797
00:43:32,116 --> 00:43:35,036
Speaker 2: just he doesn't He'll work with a list stars and

798
00:43:35,036 --> 00:43:36,476
Speaker 2: people who are just starting out.

799
00:43:36,476 --> 00:43:37,956
Speaker 1: I know, and he's lovely like that. But I'm like,

800
00:43:37,996 --> 00:43:39,476
Speaker 1: I just you know, I'm like, I just I don't

801
00:43:39,476 --> 00:43:41,476
Speaker 1: want to impose on him. But did you work with

802
00:43:41,516 --> 00:43:43,116
Speaker 1: him with an on the National Anthem?

803
00:43:43,396 --> 00:43:45,476
Speaker 2: I did work with him. I warmed up with him

804
00:43:45,516 --> 00:43:50,716
Speaker 2: right beforehand, and oddly, I wasn't nervous before going on.

805
00:43:50,836 --> 00:43:53,916
Speaker 2: I like wasn't nervous like putting the arrangement together in

806
00:43:53,956 --> 00:43:56,716
Speaker 2: my head. I always kind of knew what it was

807
00:43:56,756 --> 00:43:59,916
Speaker 2: going to be. I I always had I always knew

808
00:43:59,916 --> 00:44:01,796
Speaker 2: it was going to be in D Major. I just

809
00:44:01,836 --> 00:44:04,156
Speaker 2: like that. But it's kind of writing, like writing a song,

810
00:44:04,196 --> 00:44:06,076
Speaker 2: It's like you have the finished product in your head.

811
00:44:06,196 --> 00:44:07,756
Speaker 2: And then you reverse engineer it.

812
00:44:07,876 --> 00:44:10,396
Speaker 1: What is what is warming up for an event like that?

813
00:44:10,556 --> 00:44:11,476
Speaker 1: Like like what are you doing?

814
00:44:11,956 --> 00:44:12,956
Speaker 2: You?

815
00:44:12,956 --> 00:44:13,996
Speaker 1: You? You?

816
00:44:14,596 --> 00:44:23,036
Speaker 2: And just your voice is a muscle, so your vocal

817
00:44:23,116 --> 00:44:25,556
Speaker 2: chords are a muscle. Rather, it's like you're just warming

818
00:44:25,636 --> 00:44:28,316
Speaker 2: them up. National Anthem is hard to sing too.

819
00:44:28,396 --> 00:44:31,396
Speaker 1: It's it's insane, Like I feel the range of it is.

820
00:44:33,556 --> 00:44:39,676
Speaker 2: Insane. You're going octave jump, like you know there's somewhere

821
00:44:39,836 --> 00:44:42,796
Speaker 2: over the rainbow. I know who I want to take

822
00:44:42,836 --> 00:44:45,796
Speaker 2: me home. It's all the octave jumps. But that's an

823
00:44:45,836 --> 00:44:49,236
Speaker 2: octave jump plus a fifth. That's ridiculous.

824
00:44:49,956 --> 00:44:51,396
Speaker 1: What's your favorite song on the new album?

825
00:44:51,996 --> 00:44:55,436
Speaker 2: My favorite song on the album seems to change every day.

826
00:44:55,596 --> 00:44:58,036
Speaker 2: I love changes so much. I love. I used to

827
00:44:58,036 --> 00:45:02,476
Speaker 2: be cringe because I hated it when I first wrote it.

828
00:45:02,476 --> 00:45:04,836
Speaker 2: It's not but because it's kind of the first time

829
00:45:04,916 --> 00:45:07,716
Speaker 2: where I've made something that is a little almost like

830
00:45:07,876 --> 00:45:11,636
Speaker 2: borderline comedic. It's like, why would you put that against

831
00:45:11,676 --> 00:45:20,676
Speaker 2: such like kind of James Taylor maybe like Simon and

832
00:45:20,676 --> 00:45:24,236
Speaker 2: garfunk calls sounding made me think of her majesty at

833
00:45:24,276 --> 00:45:26,356
Speaker 2: the end of Abbey Road, like the way just pops in.

834
00:45:26,356 --> 00:45:28,676
Speaker 1: Because it's not as short as that, but it's like,

835
00:45:28,676 --> 00:45:31,116
Speaker 1: it's feels like a really great PostScript.

836
00:45:31,396 --> 00:45:34,476
Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought it was the I appreciate that, so

837
00:45:35,156 --> 00:45:37,476
Speaker 2: I thought it was a perfect way to end the

838
00:45:37,516 --> 00:45:41,436
Speaker 2: album because the whole album is filled with moments of

839
00:45:41,516 --> 00:45:44,436
Speaker 2: me reflecting on past decisions of how I used to

840
00:45:44,476 --> 00:45:48,276
Speaker 2: act and growing up as a young man in the

841
00:45:48,316 --> 00:45:53,756
Speaker 2: ever changing music industry, being influenced by things. It's I

842
00:45:53,796 --> 00:45:55,756
Speaker 2: thought it was a nice period mark at the end

843
00:45:55,756 --> 00:45:59,436
Speaker 2: of the album. Who played that was my friend Curtis

844
00:45:59,756 --> 00:46:04,196
Speaker 2: from Philadelphia. He's a wonderful guitar player. He played that

845
00:46:04,276 --> 00:46:07,436
Speaker 2: at three o'clock in the morning, and I got so

846
00:46:07,516 --> 00:46:09,516
Speaker 2: sick the next day. Thank god we got the guitar

847
00:46:09,596 --> 00:46:11,596
Speaker 2: down because I was so spent. I was so tired.

848
00:46:11,836 --> 00:46:15,516
Speaker 1: It was a The second half of the album is

849
00:46:15,556 --> 00:46:19,516
Speaker 1: a little it feels a little heavier than the first.

850
00:46:19,516 --> 00:46:21,236
Speaker 2: It's half, yeah, not.

851
00:46:21,196 --> 00:46:23,236
Speaker 1: Like in About, but he just feels a little more weighty.

852
00:46:23,556 --> 00:46:29,916
Speaker 2: By design, because I didn't want to come out right yeah,

853
00:46:30,236 --> 00:46:32,676
Speaker 2: all the kids being like oh unks and his emo

854
00:46:33,036 --> 00:46:35,996
Speaker 2: or whatever they say I want. I wanted to start

855
00:46:35,996 --> 00:46:38,916
Speaker 2: with the fun stuff, and the album, in my opinion,

856
00:46:39,036 --> 00:46:40,996
Speaker 2: is like how a concert should be laid out. You

857
00:46:41,036 --> 00:46:43,876
Speaker 2: start with the fun stuff, and then in the middle

858
00:46:43,916 --> 00:46:47,716
Speaker 2: it gets like a little melancholic and heavy, and then surprise,

859
00:46:47,796 --> 00:46:50,036
Speaker 2: here's another fun one. It's not as fun as the

860
00:46:50,076 --> 00:46:54,036
Speaker 2: first one, but it's like it's it's there. And then

861
00:46:54,516 --> 00:46:57,316
Speaker 2: encore is a song that you wouldn't expect I'd play

862
00:46:57,356 --> 00:46:57,756
Speaker 2: or something.

863
00:46:57,916 --> 00:47:02,276
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's perfectly sequenced and it's like a really quick

864
00:47:02,356 --> 00:47:05,276
Speaker 1: listen too, Like it doesn't it just goes. It goes

865
00:47:05,276 --> 00:47:06,036
Speaker 1: by really quick.

866
00:47:06,356 --> 00:47:08,716
Speaker 2: I want you to be able to replay it, replay value,

867
00:47:09,156 --> 00:47:10,956
Speaker 2: a lot of replay value on it. And I just

868
00:47:11,036 --> 00:47:13,676
Speaker 2: there there are I don't Don't Meet Your Heroes. I

869
00:47:13,716 --> 00:47:16,356
Speaker 2: had a solo on there where I was really.

870
00:47:19,236 --> 00:47:27,316
Speaker 4: Like all that and yeah, what was it the well, no, son,

871
00:47:29,836 --> 00:47:33,076
Speaker 4: probably the jazziest thing on the on this.

872
00:47:33,036 --> 00:47:37,156
Speaker 1: Album, and then.

873
00:47:41,316 --> 00:47:47,316
Speaker 2: Don't Meet Yours They're not is I mean, it's the

874
00:47:47,476 --> 00:47:49,156
Speaker 2: jazz is all over the album, but I think that's

875
00:47:49,156 --> 00:47:50,036
Speaker 2: the jazziest one.

876
00:47:50,196 --> 00:47:53,116
Speaker 1: Well, then there's a then there's a you scat along

877
00:47:53,156 --> 00:47:54,196
Speaker 1: to a guitar solo.

878
00:47:54,276 --> 00:47:56,756
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, hey brother, damn, yeah, you're not even using

879
00:47:56,796 --> 00:48:00,036
Speaker 2: he's not even using notes right now. It's like impressive.

880
00:48:00,676 --> 00:48:10,076
Speaker 2: That's Curtis playing the guitar too. No no no no

881
00:48:10,076 --> 00:48:13,356
Speaker 2: no no no no no no no no no no.

882
00:48:14,636 --> 00:48:18,276
Speaker 2: I I've always wanted to. I mean, I'll get better

883
00:48:18,316 --> 00:48:20,436
Speaker 2: at that, just go on. But I just I always

884
00:48:20,476 --> 00:48:24,076
Speaker 2: wanted to, uh, to answer your question from way before,

885
00:48:24,116 --> 00:48:26,556
Speaker 2: probably from an hour ago, I've always just I've always

886
00:48:26,596 --> 00:48:28,756
Speaker 2: known that jazz was a part of my DNA. When

887
00:48:28,796 --> 00:48:30,036
Speaker 2: making pop music.

888
00:48:30,116 --> 00:48:35,196
Speaker 1: It feels like a great synthesis of pop and jazz.

889
00:48:35,036 --> 00:48:37,836
Speaker 2: And gospel in a way. There's choirs all I'm washed up.

890
00:48:37,876 --> 00:48:41,676
Speaker 2: We have a choir, I think cry, there's a choir. Changes,

891
00:48:41,716 --> 00:48:44,156
Speaker 2: there's a choir. Beat yourself up, no choir.

892
00:48:44,396 --> 00:48:48,556
Speaker 1: The raven Lynee. Yeah, she's a new one too for me.

893
00:48:49,036 --> 00:48:51,436
Speaker 1: My kids love her though. Yeah, she's she had a

894
00:48:51,436 --> 00:48:54,196
Speaker 1: massive hit this year. She did, she did. She sounds

895
00:48:54,236 --> 00:48:56,876
Speaker 1: She's like, she sounds amazing on your album. Yeah, and

896
00:48:56,956 --> 00:48:59,796
Speaker 1: I love that song. It's almost like a called New Jersey.

897
00:48:59,916 --> 00:49:02,476
Speaker 2: It has a but it sounds like it was produced

898
00:49:02,476 --> 00:49:06,996
Speaker 2: in South Central, like like my love of the My

899
00:49:07,316 --> 00:49:10,356
Speaker 2: one of my favorite songs is the intro record on

900
00:49:10,436 --> 00:49:15,956
Speaker 2: the Chronic with the solo tip like and Snoop Dogg

901
00:49:16,076 --> 00:49:17,716
Speaker 2: just talking immense amount of.

902
00:49:17,676 --> 00:49:20,716
Speaker 1: Shazy, crazy ship. The craziest ship ever.

903
00:49:27,236 --> 00:49:28,956
Speaker 2: Like that was, don't that is?

904
00:49:29,236 --> 00:49:29,716
Speaker 1: That? Is?

905
00:49:29,756 --> 00:49:33,276
Speaker 2: That whole album is feeling based. Nothing about that is diatonic.

906
00:49:33,636 --> 00:49:36,956
Speaker 2: That's like that's C minor and a flat minor that

907
00:49:37,116 --> 00:49:40,636
Speaker 2: should clash. Why does it feel good? It just does.

908
00:49:41,236 --> 00:49:44,356
Speaker 2: It's it's all feeling based. How do we start talking

909
00:49:44,356 --> 00:49:46,436
Speaker 2: about that? Oh yeah, New Jersey is very kind of

910
00:49:46,436 --> 00:49:51,316
Speaker 2: a West Coast sonic anthem, but about the state I'm from,

911
00:49:51,396 --> 00:49:52,316
Speaker 2: which is New Jersey.

912
00:49:52,596 --> 00:49:55,236
Speaker 1: The Chronic was like the first album. I remember being

913
00:49:55,316 --> 00:49:58,476
Speaker 1: like enveloped by like as a like not even by choice,

914
00:49:58,516 --> 00:50:00,436
Speaker 1: which is as a kid and so and so, and

915
00:50:00,676 --> 00:50:02,796
Speaker 1: you know, I'm from LA So I love that album

916
00:50:02,916 --> 00:50:03,316
Speaker 1: very proud.

917
00:50:03,356 --> 00:50:05,276
Speaker 2: What was it like when that dropped?

918
00:50:05,876 --> 00:50:08,356
Speaker 1: Was what was more life before? I mean because I

919
00:50:08,396 --> 00:50:11,036
Speaker 1: was so young, but it was I thought it was

920
00:50:11,076 --> 00:50:13,876
Speaker 1: the way everything always was. Like I thought, yeah, like

921
00:50:13,996 --> 00:50:16,916
Speaker 1: you know, even my age, I'm thirty four, thirty six, okay,

922
00:50:17,156 --> 00:50:19,396
Speaker 1: thirty six, so you were kind of the same. Was

923
00:50:19,396 --> 00:50:22,316
Speaker 1: the same three when that came out, and you know,

924
00:50:22,356 --> 00:50:23,676
Speaker 1: you turn on the TV and it'd be like the

925
00:50:23,716 --> 00:50:26,876
Speaker 1: promo of like the gin and Juice video.

926
00:50:26,996 --> 00:50:30,476
Speaker 2: I got pouring out the whole like I'm looking at

927
00:50:30,516 --> 00:50:30,676
Speaker 2: you know.

928
00:50:30,716 --> 00:50:32,436
Speaker 1: It was there's nowhere I supposed to be seeing that,

929
00:50:32,436 --> 00:50:34,596
Speaker 1: but you look at you like life is. Remember having

930
00:50:34,636 --> 00:50:35,996
Speaker 1: the feeling of like I'm in for a ride like

931
00:50:36,036 --> 00:50:38,556
Speaker 1: this life is. But you know, that was a moment

932
00:50:38,596 --> 00:50:39,796
Speaker 1: in time there was.

933
00:50:39,756 --> 00:50:43,036
Speaker 2: That, you know, the Source Awards in nineteen ninety five

934
00:50:43,116 --> 00:50:45,956
Speaker 2: and Snoop when Doggy Style came out. I mean you

935
00:50:45,996 --> 00:50:48,956
Speaker 2: have to imagine me a kid going the Catholic school

936
00:50:48,996 --> 00:50:52,036
Speaker 2: listening to Doggy Style. My actually, my first Snoop dog

937
00:50:52,076 --> 00:50:54,756
Speaker 2: album was paid the Cost to be the Boss, and

938
00:50:54,796 --> 00:50:59,956
Speaker 2: I heard the Neptune's production from the Church to the Palace. Yeah, man,

939
00:51:01,476 --> 00:51:07,036
Speaker 2: Chad Hugo, like why does those monds? That was the

940
00:51:07,396 --> 00:51:09,556
Speaker 2: minor that that's not supposed to work, But it just

941
00:51:09,556 --> 00:51:11,836
Speaker 2: worked because it was just the Neptune's feeling it and.

942
00:51:11,796 --> 00:51:13,316
Speaker 1: It Snoop sounds sinister on it.

943
00:51:13,316 --> 00:51:15,196
Speaker 2: It's like, damn woo, what are you going to do?

944
00:51:15,356 --> 00:51:19,036
Speaker 2: Cauz with them? Baby Blue? Like I didn't even know

945
00:51:19,676 --> 00:51:22,596
Speaker 2: what the crip walk was. I was in school listening

946
00:51:22,596 --> 00:51:25,876
Speaker 2: to that, Oh I was. I was so enamored. It

947
00:51:25,916 --> 00:51:28,476
Speaker 2: was the early days of YouTube and I was looking

948
00:51:28,476 --> 00:51:30,676
Speaker 2: at all the videos. I think. Drop It Like It's

949
00:51:30,676 --> 00:51:33,236
Speaker 2: Hot was the first music video I watched on the internet.

950
00:51:34,836 --> 00:51:37,876
Speaker 2: Pharrell like blurring out the ice creams that he was

951
00:51:37,916 --> 00:51:40,996
Speaker 2: like that, Like, I just I want people to be

952
00:51:41,076 --> 00:51:43,916
Speaker 2: excited about music again because I feel like they're not.

953
00:51:44,276 --> 00:51:47,036
Speaker 2: I feel like there's so much like you and I

954
00:51:47,116 --> 00:51:50,316
Speaker 2: love music, but I feel like everybody feels that music

955
00:51:50,436 --> 00:51:53,996
Speaker 2: is disposable because you can. You can go on Amazon

956
00:51:54,196 --> 00:51:54,836
Speaker 2: and listen to it.

957
00:51:54,876 --> 00:51:57,516
Speaker 1: You can go on Spotify, the spot Spotify.

958
00:51:57,756 --> 00:52:00,556
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can go on Apple and you can. They can.

959
00:52:00,876 --> 00:52:03,516
Speaker 2: It's just I used to have to order CDs. If

960
00:52:03,516 --> 00:52:06,316
Speaker 2: I wanted the chocolate Starfish and hot dog flavored water,

961
00:52:06,716 --> 00:52:08,876
Speaker 2: I had to put an order and it sold a

962
00:52:08,876 --> 00:52:11,876
Speaker 2: mill copies first week off Interscope when Jimmy was there,

963
00:52:12,116 --> 00:52:13,716
Speaker 2: Like the marketing was amazing.

964
00:52:14,076 --> 00:52:14,436
Speaker 1: Crazy.

965
00:52:14,676 --> 00:52:17,716
Speaker 2: I had to put an order in for Crazy Sexy Cool.

966
00:52:18,036 --> 00:52:20,276
Speaker 2: They didn't have it at Jack's Music Shop in Redknack,

967
00:52:20,316 --> 00:52:22,956
Speaker 2: New Jersey. I would stay in the record store and

968
00:52:23,076 --> 00:52:26,796
Speaker 2: listen to the CDs I had, but it wasn't just me,

969
00:52:26,996 --> 00:52:29,076
Speaker 2: like it was like, oh, you have the mixed CD,

970
00:52:29,196 --> 00:52:31,116
Speaker 2: let me you have My name is off the Slim

971
00:52:31,116 --> 00:52:33,636
Speaker 2: Shady LP let me borrow that, Like he kind of

972
00:52:33,636 --> 00:52:35,716
Speaker 2: had to like jump through some hoops to get to music.

973
00:52:36,236 --> 00:52:39,276
Speaker 2: You don't even have to illegally download anymore. It's all

974
00:52:39,636 --> 00:52:42,196
Speaker 2: there's no need for bit torrents or anything. It's there's

975
00:52:42,236 --> 00:52:44,596
Speaker 2: no LimeWire anyway. You just can if you want to

976
00:52:44,596 --> 00:52:45,996
Speaker 2: hear a song, you can find it.

977
00:52:46,076 --> 00:52:48,276
Speaker 1: Even LimeWire wasn't a bit of an impediment to Like

978
00:52:48,476 --> 00:52:52,156
Speaker 1: there was a go through some hoopla and the thing

979
00:52:52,236 --> 00:52:52,596
Speaker 1: I hear it.

980
00:52:52,596 --> 00:52:56,196
Speaker 2: Would be like I had riddled my parents' computer with viruses,

981
00:52:56,476 --> 00:52:58,316
Speaker 2: and but it was worth it because I got to

982
00:52:58,356 --> 00:53:02,436
Speaker 2: hear Goodies by Sierra. These kids today like they like

983
00:53:02,996 --> 00:53:05,076
Speaker 2: I shouldn't say that there's not an appreciation of music.

984
00:53:05,116 --> 00:53:08,356
Speaker 2: I let's I retract my statement. There is an appreciation

985
00:53:08,396 --> 00:53:09,636
Speaker 2: of music, it's just changed.

986
00:53:09,836 --> 00:53:12,076
Speaker 1: It's just a fervor the way, Like I know what

987
00:53:12,116 --> 00:53:14,316
Speaker 1: you mean. I think kids like to our earlier point,

988
00:53:14,356 --> 00:53:18,276
Speaker 1: I think kids appreciate a wider array of music, no

989
00:53:18,556 --> 00:53:21,076
Speaker 1: older music. You know that there's they really have. Yeah,

990
00:53:22,116 --> 00:53:26,356
Speaker 1: but there's not like the excitement from it because the

991
00:53:26,356 --> 00:53:29,236
Speaker 1: distribution is so easy now, like the excitement like even

992
00:53:29,276 --> 00:53:32,516
Speaker 1: just like TRL was like, oh my god, I have any.

993
00:53:32,356 --> 00:53:34,996
Speaker 2: Backstreet Boys seen all the fans line up for Christina

994
00:53:34,996 --> 00:53:35,596
Speaker 2: Aguilera and you.

995
00:53:35,956 --> 00:53:37,436
Speaker 1: Rush home from school to see it, like and if

996
00:53:37,476 --> 00:53:40,076
Speaker 1: you didn't run it was it you? Like? How do

997
00:53:40,156 --> 00:53:40,636
Speaker 1: I see that?

998
00:53:40,836 --> 00:53:43,156
Speaker 2: Explain that concept to Jen Alpha. They don't. What do

999
00:53:43,236 --> 00:53:44,876
Speaker 2: you mean I have to rush home to watch something?

1000
00:53:44,916 --> 00:53:46,596
Speaker 2: If I want to watch something, I'll watch it whenever

1001
00:53:46,676 --> 00:53:49,076
Speaker 2: I want. That's fine. That's I'm not going to be

1002
00:53:49,076 --> 00:53:51,996
Speaker 2: on and be like good old days like I'm I've

1003
00:53:52,036 --> 00:53:54,996
Speaker 2: had success in these new days. I'm very happy about that.

1004
00:53:55,316 --> 00:53:57,636
Speaker 2: I just want to make a body of work that

1005
00:53:57,796 --> 00:54:01,636
Speaker 2: makes people somewhat feel what I felt when I first

1006
00:54:01,716 --> 00:54:05,636
Speaker 2: heard who on the TLC tip and X Y and

1007
00:54:05,716 --> 00:54:09,876
Speaker 2: z I. I just I want that feeling to never die.

1008
00:54:10,196 --> 00:54:12,396
Speaker 1: Well. I think you captured a really great feeling on

1009
00:54:12,396 --> 00:54:15,156
Speaker 1: this thanks and like the melodies like that, there's so

1010
00:54:15,236 --> 00:54:17,756
Speaker 1: there's melodies for days and just the last thing I

1011
00:54:17,796 --> 00:54:19,956
Speaker 1: want to say about it, just just because I have

1012
00:54:20,036 --> 00:54:21,636
Speaker 1: you here, yeah, is when I was listening to it,

1013
00:54:21,796 --> 00:54:24,316
Speaker 1: like there are melodies that I feel like it's recycled

1014
00:54:24,356 --> 00:54:26,996
Speaker 1: through pop music and I don't hear any of those

1015
00:54:27,036 --> 00:54:29,356
Speaker 1: on here, Like it sounds it's just like, everything sounds

1016
00:54:29,756 --> 00:54:33,316
Speaker 1: appropriate to the song, organic, everything sounds new, it's inspiring.

1017
00:54:33,716 --> 00:54:36,196
Speaker 2: I appreciate that because I don't really listen to a

1018
00:54:36,236 --> 00:54:38,196
Speaker 2: whole lot of pop music. I'm not going to be

1019
00:54:38,316 --> 00:54:41,156
Speaker 2: the cool artist and like I don't listen to any

1020
00:54:41,196 --> 00:54:44,276
Speaker 2: pop music. I am cognizant of pop music. I know

1021
00:54:44,316 --> 00:54:46,996
Speaker 2: Olivia Dean, I know all Sabrina songs like.

1022
00:54:46,956 --> 00:54:48,556
Speaker 1: Wait, she's great. I mean for a pop I mean

1023
00:54:48,556 --> 00:54:50,916
Speaker 1: the fact that she's like, like, you know that some

1024
00:54:50,956 --> 00:54:52,876
Speaker 1: of these people are like popa artists. Now you're like

1025
00:54:53,076 --> 00:54:56,676
Speaker 1: it's that does speak to some of the savvy of

1026
00:54:56,396 --> 00:54:59,276
Speaker 1: of the music listening public at this point.

1027
00:54:59,516 --> 00:55:01,316
Speaker 2: I appreciate you saying that. It's very nice to you.

1028
00:55:01,476 --> 00:55:04,036
Speaker 1: It's amazing. It was great to meet you, man, very

1029
00:55:04,076 --> 00:55:04,596
Speaker 1: nice to meet you.

1030
00:55:04,636 --> 00:55:06,836
Speaker 2: So I feel like I've known you, like for my

1031
00:55:06,916 --> 00:55:09,916
Speaker 2: whole life. Weird, very nice, good to know you, to

1032
00:55:09,996 --> 00:55:12,636
Speaker 2: know you too. And this is a really wow, what

1033
00:55:12,716 --> 00:55:13,636
Speaker 2: a dump this is here?

1034
00:55:13,716 --> 00:55:13,876
Speaker 5: Right?

1035
00:55:14,116 --> 00:55:16,876
Speaker 1: Well, we'll get this, get this up, tune this, we'll

1036
00:55:16,916 --> 00:55:17,476
Speaker 1: get this going.

1037
00:55:17,716 --> 00:55:19,876
Speaker 5: And we just.

1038
00:55:19,996 --> 00:55:25,356
Speaker 2: Talked for more than a minute.

1039
00:55:25,556 --> 00:55:27,636
Speaker 1: In an episode description, you'll find a link to a

1040
00:55:27,636 --> 00:55:30,996
Speaker 1: playlist featuring our favorite songs from Charlie Proof. Be sure

1041
00:55:30,996 --> 00:55:33,876
Speaker 1: to check out YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast

1042
00:55:33,956 --> 00:55:36,916
Speaker 1: to see all of our video interviews, and be sure

1043
00:55:36,916 --> 00:55:39,436
Speaker 1: to follow us on Instagram at the Broken Record Pod.

1044
00:55:39,876 --> 00:55:42,196
Speaker 1: Broken Record is produced and edited by Leah Rose, with

1045
00:55:42,276 --> 00:55:45,476
Speaker 1: marketing help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer

1046
00:55:45,636 --> 00:55:49,436
Speaker 1: is Ben Taliday. Broken Record is production of Pushkin Industries.

1047
00:55:49,636 --> 00:55:52,116
Speaker 1: If you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider

1048
00:55:52,116 --> 00:55:55,676
Speaker 1: subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription

1049
00:55:55,756 --> 00:55:58,516
Speaker 1: that offers bonus content and ad free listening for four

1050
00:55:58,636 --> 00:56:00,916
Speaker 1: ninety nine a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple

1051
00:56:00,956 --> 00:56:04,476
Speaker 1: podcast subscriptions, and if you like this show, please remember

1052
00:56:04,476 --> 00:56:06,556
Speaker 1: to share, rate, and review us on your podcast app.

1053
00:56:06,876 --> 00:56:08,996
Speaker 1: Our theme musics by Kenny Beats. I'm Justin Rich