1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 1: production of My Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Nol. They called 6 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:32,520 Speaker 1: me Ben. We are joined as always with our super 7 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:37,159 Speaker 1: producer Paul Mission controlled decades. Most importantly, you are you. 8 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 1: You are here, and that makes this the stuff they 9 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 1: don't want you to know. Now. Folks, long time conspiracy 10 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 1: realists who have been with us since the YouTube or 11 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 1: even Apple Video podcast days, Uh, you know that we've 12 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: been at this for a while. Still haven't gotten black 13 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 1: bagged or turned by any number of shadowy organizations. Uh. 14 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: And over the years, we've been able to do something 15 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:05,480 Speaker 1: a lot of folks don't get to do. We've been 16 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:09,040 Speaker 1: able to look at old cases we investigated when new 17 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 1: evidence has come to light with the benefit of retrospect. 18 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 1: And that's where kind of our tail begins today. Uh. 19 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 1: Back in back in our awesome video days, we looked 20 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:24,040 Speaker 1: into the tragic death of a guy named dog Hammer 21 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:26,959 Speaker 1: should and his name is not spelled the way it sounds, 22 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:30,479 Speaker 1: so Apologies for that on the video. But we were young. 23 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 1: But most people have never heard of this guy. Uh, 24 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:39,320 Speaker 1: and you probably wouldn't have heard of him in this 25 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 1: day and age unless you were super into the history 26 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 1: of the United Nations or super into true crime documentaries 27 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 1: from twenty nineteen, or maybe black metal bands. He was 28 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 1: definitely the front man of one of those. Now he wasn't, 29 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 1: but people with similar names definitely were. Exactly is a 30 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 1: very metal name. Um. In his day, this guy was 31 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 1: a big mover and shaker, youngest Secretary General a k A. 32 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: Leader of the United Nations, and even today, the story 33 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 1: surrounding his death is incredibly murky. It's full of unaddressed conspiracy. 34 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:17,920 Speaker 1: As a heads up going into this, it's a little 35 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 1: bit different from a lot of episodes we do because 36 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 1: I think it's safe to say, get a gut check 37 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 1: from you, Matt, and you know, I think it's safe 38 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:28,240 Speaker 1: to say we have a horse in the race. We're 39 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 1: just gonna be open about our bias here. We do 40 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:34,359 Speaker 1: not buy the official narrative. We think it's more than 41 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 1: likely that Dog Hammershold was murdered and whoever wanted him 42 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 1: dead totally got away with it for more than sixty 43 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 1: years in counting, it's been sixty two years since this 44 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 1: guy died due to pilot error. I guess I just 45 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 1: feel like anytime the word narrative is employed, it's probably 46 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:59,639 Speaker 1: smart to question it because it implies a story exactly exactly. Uh, 47 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 1: it is a bit of a weasely word, you know. 48 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: So here are the facts. Let's introduce dog No. Earlier 49 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 1: you mentioned that he has a heck of a good 50 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 1: name for some Swedish black metal. Uh, and just wait 51 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:18,520 Speaker 1: till you hear the full name of this economist and diplomat. 52 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:22,800 Speaker 1: Can I say it? Please? Please please, Dog hallmar Agne 53 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:32,640 Speaker 1: Carl Hamma Scold. You know, black metal is that death 54 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: metal is the just if anyone was wondering the distinction, 55 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 1: at least you want to throw in some dry lung 56 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: fear factory falsettos just shout out that. But this guy 57 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 1: is um, it's a little bit of a nepo baby. 58 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 1: It's not a bad guy. But we do have to 59 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 1: say that he was born in July of nine five 60 00:03:55,080 --> 00:04:00,160 Speaker 1: to a very very well off aristocratic family. Yes, he 61 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 1: was the son of another Kalmar hammer Shold. And again 62 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 1: just pronouncing it hammer Shold because that's how we've heard 63 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 1: it pronounced in multiple places. It does look like it 64 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 1: should be pronounced hammer. Skilled is often silent in uh 65 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:21,919 Speaker 1: in the Swedish names, if I'm not mistaken, Yes, but 66 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:27,279 Speaker 1: so dogs. Father Kalmar was the Prime Minister of Sweden. 67 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:30,039 Speaker 1: Oh no, no, biggie, just like top job in the 68 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: whole country. Oh yes, uh and uh this person Kalmar 69 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 1: was in office from nineteen fourteen until nineteen seventeen, and 70 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:41,359 Speaker 1: then he went on to do even more stuff, pretty 71 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 1: epic stuff. He was chairman of the Nobel Prize Foundation 72 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 1: from nine until all the way back when they were 73 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:54,840 Speaker 1: still giving prizes for dynamite. Kidding, kidding, kidding, look up 74 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 1: Alfred Nobel. Uh this this guy. Okay, I was trying 75 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:02,719 Speaker 1: to think of to put this in context for people 76 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 1: who aren't too familiar with Sweden. So this guy actually 77 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 1: considered Uppsala Castle his home, his childhood home. And it's 78 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:14,840 Speaker 1: a huge place. It's a big government building. Uh. It's 79 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 1: kind of like somebody saying, I consider Congress the Hall 80 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 1: of the Capital my childhood at home. But this has 81 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:23,840 Speaker 1: been the type of family that would have had like 82 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 1: a crest. I have to imagine that yeah, and like what, look, 83 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 1: what we're saying is again, he's not a bad dude 84 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 1: from everything we can find, but he was definitely not 85 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 1: some started from the bottom now we're here guy. And 86 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 1: for that fact, neither was Drake. Maybe that's a story 87 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:45,719 Speaker 1: for a different episode. Yeah, we saw him on Degrassi. 88 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:48,159 Speaker 1: You know, he was already kind of a star before 89 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 1: he even made a rap, right, and so dog being 90 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 1: what we call now maybe someone who benefited from nepotism, 91 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 1: despite that, he was all so very smart, like he 92 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 1: wasn't just some lazy guy drifting on his family name. Well, 93 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 1: it's also just point out that a lot of times 94 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:12,279 Speaker 1: nepo baby, I hate that term. Honestly, if I'm gonna 95 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 1: come out and make a hot take, I think it's 96 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 1: a bit dismissive because yes, you have a great means 97 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:22,160 Speaker 1: with which to further your education, but it doesn't mean 98 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 1: that you're stupid or lazy. I mean, someone with like 99 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:28,480 Speaker 1: zero aptitude put through the best of schooling still would 100 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 1: not necessarily excel. Just putting that out there, Yeah, but 101 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:35,719 Speaker 1: they can excel though that I know. I know. I'm 102 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 1: just trying to be Devil's advocate here a little bit 103 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 1: because I think sometimes the NEPO baby thing gets thrown 104 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:46,599 Speaker 1: around in an overly dismissive way. Sure it can be reductive, right, 105 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: because sometimes people don't like to see other people succeed. 106 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 1: And that's a problem if if you're like that, that's 107 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: a problem for you in your therapist. But the the 108 00:06:55,640 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 1: issue here is that this guy has This guy has opportunity, 109 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 1: and he has luck, and he has initiative. And not 110 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: for nothing are we bragging about his bona fides. Because 111 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: he's only twenty five years old when he gets degrees 112 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 1: in philosophy and law. And a matter of fact, by 113 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 1: the time he's finished finishing up his law degree, he 114 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 1: already gets a job as assistant secretary of the Unemployment Committee. 115 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 1: So he's already very highly placed in government without having 116 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 1: to you know, slog through a ton of internships and 117 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 1: so on. Uh. He is in that position for about 118 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 1: four years. And while he is in that position working 119 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 1: full time, he is also writing his economics thesis for 120 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 1: his doctorate at Stockholm University. The English title of his 121 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 1: thesis is the Spread of the Business Cycle. We also 122 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 1: have it in Swedish and thought it would be fun 123 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 1: uh slash endearing and embarrassing for us to pronounce it, 124 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: and I do it. Yeah, let's all go. Let's all. 125 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 1: I'm cheating though, because I know how to say it. Okay, well, 126 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 1: then do you want to be the right answer at 127 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 1: the end, after we've I'll go after you, guys go okay. Uh. 128 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 1: It's sort of like var pignugen or like a lot 129 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 1: of these German words like bevangan heights, bebout to going 130 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: where it's uh, you know, one giant word that encompasses 131 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 1: more of a concept. This is kung York spring springing again, 132 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:30,240 Speaker 1: springing again, spling springing, And I don't know why I 133 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 1: continue to try. I yield my time. Wow, Okay, that's 134 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 1: not what I was gonna say. I was gonna say 135 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 1: conjunct or sprin pretty grazy as well, spriden uh excellent, excellent, 136 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 1: which is weirdly enough now, I I just I you know, 137 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:56,559 Speaker 1: you guys know I'm traveling, so my time is weird. 138 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 1: So I was able to spend some time to saying 139 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 1: that to myself weirdly enough that that kind of awkward 140 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 1: word for English speakers just translates to the economic spread. 141 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:10,559 Speaker 1: And it's not the whole anyway. We just thought that 142 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 1: would be fun. Apologies to all or Swedish friends. Uh 143 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:20,720 Speaker 1: so this right by the way, yes please uh and 144 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 1: and show us some more Swedish words you think it 145 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 1: would be funny for us to try to pronounce. His 146 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 1: doctorate is pretty good, it's pretty watertight. It's legit, so 147 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:34,079 Speaker 1: much so that he goes on to teach at Stockholm University, 148 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 1: at his alma mater, for three years starting in nine three. 149 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 1: And if you're in the world of academia, you know 150 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 1: it's pretty common as you're pursuing a doctorate to get 151 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 1: a job teaching at the same university in some capacity. 152 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 1: After this, after he teaches there for about three years, 153 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 1: he becomes a public servant again. He's working in the 154 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:58,840 Speaker 1: Ministry of Finance, and then he becomes the president of 155 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 1: the board of the Bank Sweden. Okay, that's a little 156 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:08,199 Speaker 1: bit appotism that leap right there, from like public servant 157 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 1: to the Bank of Sweden. But also as the Sweden 158 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 1: everything is a bit on the socialist side, so the 159 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:17,720 Speaker 1: bank would maybe be more linked in with public education 160 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 1: and stuff like that for sure, for sure, and also 161 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 1: pretty closely linked with some private enterprises as we'll see, 162 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 1: uh past World War Two. He is instrumental in the 163 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 1: formation deployment of the Marshal Plan. He becomes kind of 164 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 1: a power behind the throne of Swedish politics. He doesn't 165 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:41,679 Speaker 1: ever officially join a political party, but his career continues 166 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:44,680 Speaker 1: to take him to higher and higher heights, eventually as 167 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 1: high as the cruising altitude of an airplane. But we'll 168 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 1: get there in a second. Can we just stay Just 169 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 1: for anybody who was unaware of it, the Marshall Plan 170 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 1: has to do with World War two and the rebuilding 171 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 1: of Europe, and the United States provided funds for a 172 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 1: lot of that. Yeah, because the United States was in 173 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 1: the catbird seat at the end of World War Two. 174 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:10,079 Speaker 1: It retained a ton of its existing infrastructure. The only 175 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 1: major attack on US soil was Pearl Harbor, and Europe, 176 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 1: by contrast, was leveled in so many ways. Yeah. So 177 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 1: that's sort of a catbird seat like for life situation 178 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:29,320 Speaker 1: for the US thus far anyway, and it continued, you know, 179 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 1: until quite recently. So, uh, for the purposes of our story, 180 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:38,199 Speaker 1: that's okay. So that's a high level background on our 181 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:41,439 Speaker 1: boy dag For the purposes of our story. The Daxter's 182 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: most important job was becoming the Secretary of the the 183 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:50,080 Speaker 1: Secretary General of the u N on April tenth. He 184 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 1: was only the second person ever to hold this job 185 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 1: at the time. The first chairman resigned, so he got 186 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 1: a five year job and in the old boy network 187 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 1: at the u N liked him. He was reelected in 188 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 1: ninety seven for another five years. And the u N 189 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 1: at this time was really like a shiny beacon of possibility. 190 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 1: I'd say it's still had that new car smell, if 191 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: you want to think of it that way, because everybody 192 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:22,080 Speaker 1: was comparing it to the League of Nations, which just 193 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 1: absolutely shot the bed, you know, so they were like 194 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 1: less I know, you love the term, so like they 195 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: were like, lesson learned. We can think that this one 196 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:35,320 Speaker 1: would be better. This is an opportunity to really take 197 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 1: it to the next level and uh a succeed where 198 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:42,960 Speaker 1: that venture had failed. Yeah, and uh and the United 199 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 1: Nations still continues today. And does you know it's imperfect, 200 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 1: but everybody knew it would be imperfect, and it's better 201 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 1: to have it than to not have it, honestly, uh 202 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 1: And that that is an a political statement. Anybody who 203 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 1: tells you the the United Nations or something like that 204 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 1: should exists is misleading someone either you or themselves a 205 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 1: bit more of a tone center than it is like 206 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 1: a an actionable you know, agency that can actually force 207 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 1: people to do things. Oh yeah, I mean look at 208 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 1: the Commission Human Rights. It's like it's riddled with corruption 209 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 1: and like conflicts of interest. But dag at this time, 210 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 1: if you're the Secretary General, you're the second one. Ever, 211 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:30,319 Speaker 1: then your job is partially, uh, to be an ambassador 212 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:33,680 Speaker 1: of the idea, to be a salesperson. So he's going 213 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 1: around trying to sell a lot of people who like 214 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:41,960 Speaker 1: everyone from bankers to out and out war lords on 215 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 1: the idea of cooperating. It's it's a tall milkshake. Uh. 216 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 1: And he is also, it must be said, he is 217 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 1: also when he's trying to negotiate peace. There's another side 218 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 1: to that coin. He's also he's also negotiating uh, the 219 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 1: new the EEO colonial practices of resource extraction across what 220 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:06,679 Speaker 1: you would call the global South today. It's almost like 221 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 1: smoothing over relationships between those interests that want the things 222 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 1: out of the soil and then the countries that they're 223 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: going into to get it from. That's what a truly 224 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 1: good diplomat does, right. They just they're like relationship management 225 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily mean they come in utter piece because they 226 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 1: have an agenda, but they can sell you an idea 227 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 1: and convince you that it was kind of partly your 228 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 1: idea perhaps or the very least not an egregious idea. 229 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 1: And that's the kind of skill set this guy seemed 230 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 1: to have. MM And there's, uh, there's a lot of 231 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 1: stuff in play. Of course, he's one of his dudes 232 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 1: who always has a busy day. We're talking everything from 233 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 1: the Middle Eastern conflict to the Suez Crisis, to all 234 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 1: the shifting theaters of the Cold War, which basically began 235 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 1: the way before it officially begins in your textbooks, is 236 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 1: the Suez crisis dealing with the Suez Canal there? Did 237 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 1: it have to do with widening it or was it 238 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 1: part of the building like there was an infrastructure issue 239 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 1: or what wasn't that exactly? The Suez Crisis is sometimes 240 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: called the Second Arab Israeli War, and this is where 241 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 1: the the it's another chapter in the ongoing conflict between 242 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 1: Israel and other countries in that region, the conflict that 243 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: continues today, you know, and this which you know this 244 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 1: conflict is um. Oh gosh, this is its own podcast, 245 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 1: let alone an episode. But what we're talking about here 246 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 1: specifically is a climactic moment in African history, modern African history, 247 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 1: the Congo Crisis. So there's this place. It was called 248 00:15:55,120 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 1: the Belgian Congo. It was run historically by Belgium, by 249 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 1: King Leopold the Second, who was a real piece of ship. 250 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 1: And uh no, it's true, there's no other way to 251 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 1: say it. Check Leopold that I liked Leopold Stikowski, but 252 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 1: he was probably a jerk too. He was a great conductor, 253 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 1: but probably a real monster. And so, uh you know, 254 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 1: check out the behind the bastards on Leopold Um excellent 255 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 1: work is always by our pal Robert Evans and co. Um. 256 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 1: The Belgian Congo becomes independent on June nineteen sixty. Things 257 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 1: immediately go wrong. We'll get into it, but the high 258 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 1: level thing you need to know is that Dag eventually 259 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 1: sends you in peacekeeping force blue helmets, you could call them, 260 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 1: to crack down on the subsequent civil disorder. The Soviet 261 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 1: Union gets piste, the US sticks its nose in the mix. Um, 262 00:16:55,360 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: the first democratically elected Prime Minister of the country three 263 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:06,479 Speaker 1: uh La Mumba is assassinated. Uh. The things get crooked 264 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:10,399 Speaker 1: real quick, and so dog commerce shold goes on this 265 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:18,479 Speaker 1: secret mission to try to uh negotiate with a secessionist state. 266 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 1: A place called Katanga. And Katanka is a place that 267 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:25,960 Speaker 1: you you probably haven't heard of, and there's nothing wrong 268 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 1: with it. You you probably haven't heard of it if 269 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 1: you live in the United States and you don't have family, 270 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 1: or like, if you don't have a reason to read 271 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:40,159 Speaker 1: about it on your own. Uh. Katonga was one of 272 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 1: the four large provinces of the Belgian Congo. And this 273 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 1: was like the you know the monopoly game, what are 274 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 1: the two most important squares places, part place board board, Yeah, 275 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:59,119 Speaker 1: I think so, I think so so. So this is 276 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:01,920 Speaker 1: like the part place. This is where all the all 277 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:05,399 Speaker 1: the cool stuff that all the Western powers want is located. 278 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 1: Katanga is very mineral rich and uh as a result, 279 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 1: it has a lot of foreign companies and spies, the 280 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:19,639 Speaker 1: spies representing private sectors as well as state powers that 281 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:22,159 Speaker 1: are in the mix trying to get their slice of 282 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: the pie. And they're the ones who shortly after the 283 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 1: Congo becomes independent, they're the ones who say you know what, 284 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 1: Katanga should succeed, Uh, Katanga should become its own thing. 285 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:41,959 Speaker 1: And those Belgian mining interests, those foreign powers are really 286 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: pushing this for a number of resources, but the most 287 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:50,879 Speaker 1: dangerous one is uranium. Because keep in mind, the the 288 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:54,879 Speaker 1: hottest new thing in geopolitics at this time, the tickle 289 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 1: Me Elmo, the PS five of the world is the 290 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 1: atom bomb. Yeah, and uranium in general, so that you 291 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,359 Speaker 1: can test an attempt to build your own depending on 292 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 1: which country you are. Yeah. So there's a lot at steak. 293 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:12,199 Speaker 1: Dad is aware of all of this. In September of 294 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty one, he flies out on a secret piece 295 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:21,439 Speaker 1: UH peace brokering mission. The rest of the world doesn't 296 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:23,920 Speaker 1: know about this, and he's going to meet a guy 297 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:28,440 Speaker 1: named moishe to Shamba, who is the president, the nominal 298 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 1: president of this secessionist Katanga area. It's a heck of 299 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:34,160 Speaker 1: an info dump. But you need to know where he's going, 300 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:37,160 Speaker 1: why was there, and you need to know he never 301 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 1: made it. He's flying near a place called Indola in 302 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 1: modern days Ambia at the time is a part of 303 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:49,440 Speaker 1: Northern Rhodesia. Rhodija had a very troubled history in terms 304 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 1: of you know, um, codified racism and things like that. Yeah, 305 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:59,400 Speaker 1: and just quickly, guys, wasn't this a late night secret mission? Yeah? 306 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 1: You absolut you right, Matt was you could say, like 307 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 1: one in the morning or shortly after midnight? They were 308 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 1: They were not trying to get a lot of press, 309 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:12,480 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Uh and uh? And why 310 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:16,399 Speaker 1: would they because you know, oftentimes leaders at this level 311 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 1: will travel in secret. You know, that's that that even 312 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:24,120 Speaker 1: happens today. That's why those agendas, those itineraries are not 313 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:28,880 Speaker 1: publicly disclosed. That's why a lot of times, even if 314 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:32,920 Speaker 1: even if you live in the US, you might not 315 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 1: know that the president is showing up until a few 316 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 1: days before. And if you're right, if you're like most 317 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:44,640 Speaker 1: people in the US, you're not excited when they come 318 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 1: to your city. You're thinking, Uh, how am I going 319 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:50,359 Speaker 1: to get to work? But it's so interesting when you 320 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:54,960 Speaker 1: really kind of boiled down the nature of politics and diplomacy, 321 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 1: it's about who's the top person, and their word carries weight, 322 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:03,240 Speaker 1: and just sending them to a place has power, and 323 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:06,439 Speaker 1: that's a strategic move in and of itself. That's what 324 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 1: the Pope has been doing for millennia. Really is that 325 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:14,160 Speaker 1: soft power just showing up and saying something that's often 326 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:18,200 Speaker 1: pretty vague. It walks soft and talk soft and carry 327 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:23,399 Speaker 1: a big stick. Was that Roosevelt big hat? Yeah? And 328 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 1: uh so, so Dad never makes it. The plane crashes. 329 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 1: It's a Douglas D six airliner, and like you said, 330 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:36,679 Speaker 1: it crashes in the wee hours in what would be 331 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:41,320 Speaker 1: modern days Ambia today. All the passengers aboard eventually die. 332 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 1: There are fifteen passengers. Fourteen die, including Dad in the crash, 333 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 1: and one guy who will talk about a little bit later, 334 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:53,159 Speaker 1: survives for five days in the hospital before succumbing to 335 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:58,200 Speaker 1: officially his wounds. The u N falls into chaos. Remember 336 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 1: it's new, it's untested. They will have a precedent for this. 337 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 1: They've got to have They've got to have somebody to 338 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 1: be in charge. And ever since that time, the official 339 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 1: story was either pilot error according to a Rhodesian inquiry 340 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 1: held the next year, or undetermined according to a u 341 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:24,119 Speaker 1: N investigation. But nobody believes the official story, even like 342 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:28,919 Speaker 1: the people who are propagating the official story behind closed doors. 343 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 1: They know it's malarkey. As Biden would say, Uh and 344 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 1: in like the day after the crash, tons of people 345 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 1: were already convinced it was a conspiracy at foot and 346 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 1: off foot, off foot, now keep it in Sorry, it's 347 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:45,359 Speaker 1: a weird time. Not at foot of foot. Uh. And 348 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:48,639 Speaker 1: they're they're not all wing nuts or wearing tinfoil hats 349 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:53,199 Speaker 1: or what have you. There pretty prominent people, and they 350 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 1: they are saying stuff that sounds positively conspiratorial. What are 351 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 1: we talking about. We'll tell you after word from our sponsors. 352 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:12,119 Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. Okay, Well, we save people 353 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 1: that might surprise you calling this a conspiracy a foot 354 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 1: or at hand. Who are we talking about? Who's like that? 355 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:25,160 Speaker 1: We found one famous guy who was ten toes down 356 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 1: on the idea that this was a murder and a 357 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:31,960 Speaker 1: cover up. Yeah, it was Harry Truman, the President of 358 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 1: these United States, and he said the dag was quote 359 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:40,400 Speaker 1: on the point of getting something done when they killed him. 360 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 1: Oh snap, I mean he's not he's not necessarily saying 361 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 1: he was just he's just acknowledging that he was doing 362 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:54,159 Speaker 1: good work and then he was killed. A bit of 363 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 1: a wink wink, nudge nudge. The statement he didn't say 364 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:01,920 Speaker 1: when he died or and there was the accident, he said, 365 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 1: when they killed him. That's fair, that's sorry. That part 366 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,480 Speaker 1: he did say they killed him. It was it was 367 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 1: the day after the crash that the President of the 368 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 1: United States said this, And then he's like snarky about 369 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:19,880 Speaker 1: it because he says it again. He says this, Yeah, 370 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:25,159 Speaker 1: he like pauses for an ellipses and says, newice that 371 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:29,960 Speaker 1: I said, when they killed him. The particular they of 372 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:35,720 Speaker 1: our very podcast, fellow conspiracy realists, the they? Who who 373 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 1: are the they? Well, let's discuss yeah, because people asked 374 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:44,400 Speaker 1: him too, because that's the wild stuff for the president 375 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 1: to say, and apparently he clammed up and he refused 376 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 1: to elaborate. They were asking the most you know question. 377 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 1: They were like, well, who were Who the hell are they? 378 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:59,440 Speaker 1: And he goes, yeah, next question, he didn't say the Soviets. 379 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 1: I feel like, yeah, people are saying, oh no, I 380 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 1: didn't say that either. I don't think so. But the 381 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,440 Speaker 1: scuttle butt on the street was that he was probably 382 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 1: referring to the Soviets um because we know the CIA 383 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:21,920 Speaker 1: definitely tried to con the c I A convinced, tried 384 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:26,480 Speaker 1: to convince folks that it was probably the KGB. What 385 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 1: does that stand for. Again, it's a Russian thing, so 386 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:30,439 Speaker 1: it's not an acronym that will be of any value 387 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 1: to us, probably, but if we're on a role mispronouncing 388 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,920 Speaker 1: complicated words in different languages, we should probably give it 389 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:48,359 Speaker 1: a try. Okay, how about the basil personal bro, No, 390 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:54,120 Speaker 1: it's terrible, terrible convincing to me. It's Committee for State 391 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 1: Security is what that means. Uh. But yeah, at the 392 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,159 Speaker 1: same time, the KGP is go around and say, you 393 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:05,480 Speaker 1: know who asked the questions from the office. I apologize 394 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 1: that's that's you're talking about. Well, they're saying it's the CIA. Well, also, 395 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,119 Speaker 1: the KGB and the CIA both took a bunch of 396 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,200 Speaker 1: Nazis with them at the end of you know, as 397 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 1: part of their sees that were smart that they kept 398 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 1: them around, you know. And so there's a big problem 399 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,160 Speaker 1: here because it's kind of like in that movie Clue, 400 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,320 Speaker 1: which is a great movie, where you realize everybody has 401 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,919 Speaker 1: a motive for killing that one dude. The problem is 402 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:38,200 Speaker 1: the KGB, the c I A, and m I six 403 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:42,960 Speaker 1: British Intelligence are all super active in the Congo because 404 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 1: they all want some of that mining juice. They all 405 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:50,919 Speaker 1: want like they want uranium, they want, copper, they want um, 406 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:54,080 Speaker 1: I think cobalt as well. Like they all have a 407 00:26:54,119 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 1: reason for this guy to die and for or Katanga 408 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:05,760 Speaker 1: to stay a secessionist state because Katonga was an active 409 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 1: proxy conflict, let's say, right, a proxy war between communist 410 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:14,520 Speaker 1: forces and was it the West in general or and 411 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:19,680 Speaker 1: I'm sorry I keep bringing up James Cameron's brilliant Avatar sequel, 412 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:24,159 Speaker 1: but he's super into this whole geopolitical idea that like, 413 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:28,240 Speaker 1: when it comes to resource extraction, morality just goes out 414 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 1: the window. And like, you know, say what you will 415 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 1: about the guy, and maybe he's a little too you know, 416 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 1: um far far far far far far left, and there's 417 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 1: a middle ground. But you know this is true. We've 418 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:43,080 Speaker 1: seen it for generations. When it comes to getting the 419 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,080 Speaker 1: thing out of the dirt that you need and will 420 00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 1: make you money or will cause your country to have supremacy, 421 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:54,280 Speaker 1: morality goes out the window nearly every time. Yeah, yeah, 422 00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:58,119 Speaker 1: Or people define morality as making sure I get the 423 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:03,400 Speaker 1: resources I want in a day, yeah, exactly. So. There 424 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 1: were a total of three contemporary inquiries into the crash 425 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,680 Speaker 1: at the by which we mean like shortly after the crash, 426 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 1: one each from the Rhodesian Board of Investigation, which was 427 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 1: probably corrupt, the Rhodesian Commission of Inquiry, which was probably corrupt. 428 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 1: Investigation and inquiry. Yes, yeah, we've investigated, but have we inquired? 429 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:32,800 Speaker 1: I would think they would go on the other way. 430 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 1: You inquire and then you investigate, you know, you pose 431 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 1: the questions that need answering, and then you launch an 432 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 1: investigation to answer those inquiries. They yeah, you know, but 433 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 1: they're like, what's a little what's a little assassination between friends? Uh? 434 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 1: The third one is the United Nations Commission of Investigation, 435 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 1: and they launch an inquiry anyway. So we're just saying 436 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 1: things get weird when you know you've got institutions using 437 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:06,920 Speaker 1: multiple languages, right, That's why, like Secretary General doesn't sound 438 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 1: super impressive in American English, but you need to know 439 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:15,640 Speaker 1: that's the head hauncho. These inquiries all fail to conclusively 440 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 1: determine the cause of the crash. There's a lot of hedging, 441 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:24,880 Speaker 1: right the Rhodesians in both their inquiries, inquiries and investigations. 442 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,000 Speaker 1: It's in my head now, they find no evidence of bombs, 443 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 1: nor missiles, nor hijacking. But their official report says a 444 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 1: lot of curious stuff. They say two of the Swedish 445 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:41,720 Speaker 1: bodyguards aboard seem to have died from multiple bullet wounds 446 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 1: before the plane hits the ground. So that's like World 447 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,920 Speaker 1: War two plane on plane kind of weaponry. That's what 448 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 1: it sounds like to me. Oh wait, unless unless they 449 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 1: were shot from the ground, which is possible. Weren't they 450 00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 1: nearing the time to land the plane? Yes, So to paint, 451 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 1: to paint the picture, I'm really glad to bring this up. 452 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 1: So that it's late at night and the plane is 453 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 1: flying down, it goes below it's cruising altitude to where 454 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:17,160 Speaker 1: it's getting ready to land, and the pilot error story 455 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:21,040 Speaker 1: is that the plane hit a hill that wasn't on 456 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,000 Speaker 1: the their maps. They didn't have the data for it, 457 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 1: and they were kind of eyeballing it and because they 458 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 1: didn't see the hill history. But we'll see whether that 459 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:38,560 Speaker 1: adds up. So the autopsy comes in and the story 460 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 1: shifts a bit. The medical examiners and authorities say the 461 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,800 Speaker 1: there are gunshot wounds, or there are bullet wounds, but 462 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:54,320 Speaker 1: they are superficial and the the bullets that hit them 463 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:57,400 Speaker 1: appear to be unrifled, meaning it looks like they weren't 464 00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 1: fired out of a gun. Uh, such that the authorities 465 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 1: conclude there must have been a fire near where the 466 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:11,240 Speaker 1: bullets were stored, and then that made the cartridges explode, 467 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:14,800 Speaker 1: and it was near the bodyguards, so they got kind 468 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:18,600 Speaker 1: of it was almost like shrapnel instead of someone firing 469 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:24,040 Speaker 1: a gun at them. WHOA wow, you know it's it's 470 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 1: it's weird because in these initial inquiries and investigations, they 471 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:32,360 Speaker 1: also didn't find signs of foul play. And that's one 472 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 1: of the you know, big things that everyone is talking 473 00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:40,480 Speaker 1: about nowadays and in the modern era it's it's people 474 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:42,520 Speaker 1: trying to come up with, well, what was the version 475 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:45,920 Speaker 1: of foul play they went down. But in those initial investigations, 476 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,240 Speaker 1: he was like, no, it looks like it looks like 477 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:52,720 Speaker 1: nothing happened here, no ducks involved. That's the worst part 478 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 1: to make foul play, Oh my god. Or like a 479 00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:02,840 Speaker 1: strike that's one of the that's the thing, dark Wing Duck. Yes, 480 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,240 Speaker 1: Mr never mind, carry on, carry on the origin story, 481 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 1: dark Wing Duck. We've done it. But yes, so the 482 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:12,320 Speaker 1: Rhodesians say, here's what happened. The plane flew to the 483 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:15,840 Speaker 1: pilot took the plane too low. They struck some trees 484 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 1: because they were elevated on a hill, and this led 485 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 1: to fatally grounding the plane. And then there were all 486 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:26,160 Speaker 1: these witnesses in the area who said, hey, I saw 487 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:29,680 Speaker 1: a bright flash in the sky. Now, this is not 488 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,560 Speaker 1: a place with a ton of light pollution like you 489 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 1: would expect in uh, New York City or Tokyo or 490 00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,240 Speaker 1: London or whatever. This is a place where if something 491 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:42,680 Speaker 1: happens in the sky, you're going to see it if 492 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 1: you're looking up. And these reports said, we're dismissing all 493 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 1: of that. These are just stories. Let's go to the 494 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:55,480 Speaker 1: one guy though, who survived in the hospital after the 495 00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:59,720 Speaker 1: crash for a few days. This was Sergeant Harold Julian, 496 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,080 Speaker 1: who was critically wounded. He survived the crash, but he 497 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,720 Speaker 1: did pass away in the hospital after five days. Um. 498 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:10,440 Speaker 1: His description of a series of explosions just before the 499 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 1: crash uh may well have been another narrative a k 500 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 1: a um according to the U n because witnesses who 501 00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 1: talked to him sounded kind of inconsistent. So essentially what 502 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:28,040 Speaker 1: that means is the United Nations talked to witnesses in 503 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:32,120 Speaker 1: the hospital who spoke with Sergeant Julian before he died, 504 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:36,160 Speaker 1: and the UN chose to ignore everything those witnesses said 505 00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 1: because the u N thought their stories didn't match. Now, 506 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:45,200 Speaker 1: calling testimony inconsistent is a big umbrella term. You can 507 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 1: you can fit a lot of stuff in there. It 508 00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 1: may seem like inconsistent can mean witnesses have conflicting reports, 509 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,880 Speaker 1: but it can also mean whomever is investigating was looking 510 00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 1: for stuff that didn't a hundred percent match, So they 511 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:04,400 Speaker 1: could say a fiddle d d away with the jeez. Well, 512 00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:07,960 Speaker 1: if there was a big flash in the sky, that 513 00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:12,200 Speaker 1: an explosions, that was an explosion, right, If you imagine 514 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,080 Speaker 1: that's probably what a large bright flash in the sky 515 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,160 Speaker 1: would be. Then you would imagine those inquiries when they're 516 00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:20,759 Speaker 1: looking at the wreckage of the plane. Even if this 517 00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:23,719 Speaker 1: thing was completely obliterated, and it was not, there was 518 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,200 Speaker 1: still large chunks of this plane intact, at least from 519 00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:28,879 Speaker 1: the photos I've seen of the wreck Um you would 520 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:32,640 Speaker 1: be able to determine if part of that plane had exploded. 521 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,960 Speaker 1: I'm assuming maybe I'm just way off. I don't know. 522 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 1: No one would hope, right, and the so the it 523 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:42,799 Speaker 1: comes to pass that the official UN report comes out 524 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,799 Speaker 1: the same month as the crash the first one and 525 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,560 Speaker 1: they say, Okay, the cause of the disaster is undetermined, 526 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 1: but there was a bright flash in the sky before 527 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,000 Speaker 1: the plane hit the ground, and that's all they say. 528 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,759 Speaker 1: That's that's it, UH. And this is why you can 529 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,359 Speaker 1: already see problem with the official story, folks that Noel 530 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:04,400 Speaker 1: and Matt and I are are picking apart in the 531 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:09,360 Speaker 1: live cooking right now. If Rhodija's government is involved, we 532 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:13,480 Speaker 1: have to remember Rhodesia is a colonial vassal state and 533 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:17,759 Speaker 1: a lot of European powers can do whatever they want there. 534 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:22,720 Speaker 1: So Rhodesia would probably be logically too corrupt to conduct 535 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:26,920 Speaker 1: a real investigation or again an inquiry. And if somebody 536 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:31,319 Speaker 1: in the United Nations UH is powerful enough and they 537 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:35,040 Speaker 1: want dag out of the picture, let's be honest, Uncle 538 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:38,160 Speaker 1: Sam and the big red bear of Soviet Russia could 539 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:41,200 Speaker 1: also screw with the UN investigation in a way that 540 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:45,400 Speaker 1: gives them plausible deniability and no consequences. Those are just 541 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:47,839 Speaker 1: two of the big problems, but there are a ton 542 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:51,400 Speaker 1: of other issues. So we talked about this documentary right 543 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:56,920 Speaker 1: comes out I think after we do this video, and 544 00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:00,560 Speaker 1: there are a couple of investigators who want to argue 545 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:03,839 Speaker 1: this is entirely pilot error. And they point out some good, 546 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:07,040 Speaker 1: some valid things. They say, some of the people on 547 00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:10,840 Speaker 1: the plane have been working for seventeen of the previous 548 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:14,680 Speaker 1: twenty four hours. They also point out the map maps 549 00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:18,920 Speaker 1: didn't include the correct altitude for these fields, which is 550 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,799 Speaker 1: how they missed the hills. We looked into that, and 551 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:27,000 Speaker 1: both of those points are objectively correct. But there's other things. 552 00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:31,839 Speaker 1: The first un official to look at Dad's body said, hey, 553 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,480 Speaker 1: this guy has a hole in his forehead about the 554 00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:38,800 Speaker 1: size of a bullet, and the later autopsy said, nas 555 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:49,400 Speaker 1: like what, Yeah, okay, it feels like there's either a 556 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 1: hole in his head or not. Could come right, I 557 00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:54,760 Speaker 1: don't feel like that's a matter of philosophy in your opinion. 558 00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:59,720 Speaker 1: I'm with you with you there. Uh the u JFK's 559 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:07,319 Speaker 1: rain was completely switched out. Yeah, okay, alright, alright, just 560 00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:09,640 Speaker 1: not I'm just trying to think of, like, is there 561 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,959 Speaker 1: is there a I don't know, just that kind of 562 00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:17,920 Speaker 1: if there was some kind of uh interference with an 563 00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:22,400 Speaker 1: autopsy like that, I don't know. They're they're definitely precedents 564 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:25,960 Speaker 1: for that. Yeah, think about it. I mean, okay, autopsy 565 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:32,200 Speaker 1: sounds superficial, right. But when you get to how the 566 00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,840 Speaker 1: uh the corpse sausage is made, we have to remember 567 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:38,360 Speaker 1: there are only a few ple sorry Matt, I have 568 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:41,600 Speaker 1: to remember there are only a few people for in 569 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,880 Speaker 1: the room with the body, right, and there is tremendous 570 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:49,880 Speaker 1: opportunity for those people to be influenced in anyway. I 571 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:53,600 Speaker 1: I feel like I'm getting too close to casting doubt 572 00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:57,200 Speaker 1: on all autopsies. That's not the case, that's absolutely not 573 00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:00,279 Speaker 1: the case. But the u N came under or some 574 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:05,000 Speaker 1: heat because they discarded a lot of other claims. There 575 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:09,000 Speaker 1: was an allegation that South African mercenary would get drunk 576 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:12,120 Speaker 1: and then brag two people in public that he had 577 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:16,319 Speaker 1: participated in the assassination, which sounds like a dumb thing 578 00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:20,000 Speaker 1: to do if you participated in an assassination. But also 579 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:24,840 Speaker 1: if you've met mercenaries or you know any job, not 580 00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:27,080 Speaker 1: a of the people in the job are going to 581 00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:30,279 Speaker 1: be the best and brightest. So it's totally possible that 582 00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:33,040 Speaker 1: somebody was talking out on their neck about it. But 583 00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:37,400 Speaker 1: the big thing is when they say undetermined as blase 584 00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:42,080 Speaker 1: is that freeze sounds. What they're really saying is they 585 00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:46,640 Speaker 1: cannot rule out sabotage or an attack or murder. Yeah, 586 00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:50,600 Speaker 1: but but accusing a country or you know, a company 587 00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:54,479 Speaker 1: or individual would be damaging, right because they can't prove 588 00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:58,319 Speaker 1: it right, right, Like think of again, um nultier point 589 00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:01,799 Speaker 1: about your politics, Like, think of the backlash. Think of 590 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:05,960 Speaker 1: how what a terrible butterfly effect that is on all 591 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:10,479 Speaker 1: these carefully managed relationships. You're a diplomat, you're in good 592 00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:13,680 Speaker 1: terms with somebody of Rhodesia, and then you get a 593 00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:19,040 Speaker 1: phone call at four am with somebody going what the hell, Donny, Yeah, 594 00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:23,040 Speaker 1: why why just shoot down our spy balloon? Damn it, 595 00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:26,920 Speaker 1: Donny like a child walks down the middle of the movie, 596 00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:32,080 Speaker 1: lost the plot, Donny, you will wrap my daughter's wedding 597 00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:36,919 Speaker 1: and you do this to me. So so there are 598 00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:40,360 Speaker 1: there are a lot of problems with this and another 599 00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:42,400 Speaker 1: like if you get in the weeds just a little 600 00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:45,040 Speaker 1: bit more, you'll see two other things I think that 601 00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:49,080 Speaker 1: stood out to us especially He's not the only weird discrepancies, 602 00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:53,840 Speaker 1: but they're two big ones. The rescue and search mission 603 00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:58,320 Speaker 1: didn't start for hours after people knew the plane it crashed. 604 00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:02,799 Speaker 1: It was delayed for some deacon. That is incredibly abnormal, 605 00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:07,640 Speaker 1: especially knowing that when planes are found to have crashed 606 00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:13,279 Speaker 1: and remote areas, the entire world moves mountains to get 607 00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:15,400 Speaker 1: there as soon as possible. And that just did not 608 00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:18,440 Speaker 1: happen here, even though like the King of the u 609 00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:21,600 Speaker 1: N is on board. Uh. And then there's a British 610 00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:27,280 Speaker 1: High Commissioner it was stationed at Dola and he hears 611 00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:30,840 Speaker 1: that the plane is late, and then he hears about 612 00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:34,160 Speaker 1: the crash and he doesn't seem he doesn't just seem 613 00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:40,160 Speaker 1: like non stressed about it. He doesn't seem surprised. Who 614 00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:45,399 Speaker 1: do when perhaps man wasn't meant for the skies? Keep 615 00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:50,440 Speaker 1: calm and carry on. That's the classical, that's the office's way. Yeah, 616 00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:54,080 Speaker 1: maybe it's the stiff upper lip. Yeah, did dad happen 617 00:40:54,120 --> 00:41:01,120 Speaker 1: to be onset plane? Oh wow? How dreadful h bit 618 00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:08,919 Speaker 1: of a sticky wicket by So where is my tf uh? 619 00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:13,560 Speaker 1: So it did not take very long for again, alternative, 620 00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:16,600 Speaker 1: let's call them narratives to make the rounds or accusations, 621 00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:19,880 Speaker 1: if that's more comfortable for people. Like we said, the KGB, 622 00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:23,560 Speaker 1: first thing, they do accuse the CIA. And like we said, 623 00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:29,080 Speaker 1: first thing, CIA does accuse the KGB. Spider Man mame 624 00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:37,240 Speaker 1: you know, spider Mander. Perfect. Yes, that's perfect because because 625 00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:41,120 Speaker 1: they're both in the same place, because they want the 626 00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:47,279 Speaker 1: same stuff, and they both um are kind of okay 627 00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:50,399 Speaker 1: with instability in the Congo for a little while, so 628 00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:52,600 Speaker 1: long as it means that they are going to be 629 00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:57,400 Speaker 1: able to profit from it. We are the extractors of resources, 630 00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:01,480 Speaker 1: not you. We are in control. But you know that's 631 00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:03,719 Speaker 1: that's now where it ends, though, c I A and 632 00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:09,480 Speaker 1: the KGB, because there's some theories out there that Belgian 633 00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:13,880 Speaker 1: or maybe even South African mercenaries working on somebody else's 634 00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:17,439 Speaker 1: behalf may have been the ones to actually shoot something down. 635 00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:21,040 Speaker 1: So a third party working for one of the major players, 636 00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:24,080 Speaker 1: which is how you want to do it, right, That's 637 00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:26,279 Speaker 1: how you probably would do it if you were going 638 00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:29,120 Speaker 1: to do it. And it's weird that we're talking about 639 00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:33,840 Speaker 1: murdering people with the same kind of um tone that 640 00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:36,000 Speaker 1: you would talk about the right way to build a deck. 641 00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:39,320 Speaker 1: But there really are right ways to do these things, 642 00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:43,040 Speaker 1: or most effective ways. And so yeah, the idea is 643 00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:46,440 Speaker 1: that maybe am I six or U S intelligence assets 644 00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:50,759 Speaker 1: came through with their contacts and says, hey, you know, 645 00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:54,080 Speaker 1: you guys are already messing stuff up down there. We 646 00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:58,200 Speaker 1: just want you to mess up this one thing for us. Yeah, 647 00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:01,920 Speaker 1: and theoretically all you would need is one like one 648 00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:06,120 Speaker 1: pilot or a small group of shooters that you wouldn't 649 00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:08,680 Speaker 1: have to actually go to any heads of any mercenary group. 650 00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:11,160 Speaker 1: You just get a couple of marks and get them 651 00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:13,399 Speaker 1: to do a job that you pay them for. Bro, 652 00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:17,560 Speaker 1: what are you doing Saturday? Cool? Cool? I was watching 653 00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:19,920 Speaker 1: a movie with my my partner the other night and 654 00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:23,080 Speaker 1: marks came up and she didn't know what markus was. 655 00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:25,600 Speaker 1: I got to be like a man's playing marks. Now, 656 00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:27,800 Speaker 1: it wasn't man. It wasn't man's playing CAUs. She generally 657 00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:29,840 Speaker 1: didn't know, so I was just actually telling her what 658 00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:34,839 Speaker 1: marks were. But yeah, yeah, it's Mercenary forces are very 659 00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:38,600 Speaker 1: real thing again because they work unless you're talking about 660 00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:42,200 Speaker 1: the Wagner Group or Wagner group anyway. Uh, story for 661 00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:44,560 Speaker 1: a different day. But read the reports there. I'm pretty 662 00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:50,040 Speaker 1: sure they're getting drugged up. So so both the CIA, 663 00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:53,320 Speaker 1: KGB and all kinds of people are in the mix. 664 00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:58,000 Speaker 1: Who wants to control the resource extraction install public governments 665 00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:01,960 Speaker 1: who were um okay with being corrupt? Okay, with the 666 00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:07,680 Speaker 1: selling out the people of their country to have, you know, 667 00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:11,080 Speaker 1: nice things for themselves in the short term. Tales old 668 00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:15,719 Speaker 1: as time, terrible thing, and it's happened any part of 669 00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:18,640 Speaker 1: the world you look in the past, except maybe Antarctica. 670 00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:23,520 Speaker 1: I don't know, but maybe you're sure. I'm not. We 671 00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:27,400 Speaker 1: haven't been to being murdered yet. And gentle scientists, they're 672 00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:31,399 Speaker 1: doing God's work. Yeah, well, I don't know. Check out 673 00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:36,200 Speaker 1: our episode what happens. Yeah, and I watched the thing, 674 00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:40,000 Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, they're cooped up. They're cooped up. So 675 00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:44,920 Speaker 1: the decades grind on and on and on. Past the sixties, 676 00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:50,160 Speaker 1: more and more evidence emerges that strongly indicates the official 677 00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:53,760 Speaker 1: story is not true and also, just in the opinion 678 00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:56,520 Speaker 1: of our show, strongly indicates there was some kind of 679 00:44:56,600 --> 00:45:00,120 Speaker 1: hit at play. Um. All right, So we go to 680 00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:06,000 Speaker 1: a different place in South Africa. The South African National 681 00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:09,759 Speaker 1: Intelligence Agency has to turn over some files to the 682 00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:14,920 Speaker 1: Truth and Reconciliation Commission. And in the files there's this 683 00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:19,360 Speaker 1: thing that like is so tangential, doesn't really matter for 684 00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:23,480 Speaker 1: the specific stuff that Truth and Reconciliation wants. But they 685 00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:30,000 Speaker 1: get some highly suspect trash talking from the CIA from 686 00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:34,360 Speaker 1: the freaking director Alan dulleses just like a sideline too. 687 00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:40,080 Speaker 1: It's crazy this, this shouldn't have existed. Uh. Here's the 688 00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:45,440 Speaker 1: quote from CIA director Alan Dullas. Ready it includes an ellipsis, 689 00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:49,239 Speaker 1: so you just imagine there's some bah bro something else 690 00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:54,600 Speaker 1: being said. Okay, here we go. Quote dag is becoming 691 00:45:54,760 --> 00:46:02,400 Speaker 1: troublesome ellipses and should be removed. You mean like no, no, no, no, no, 692 00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:05,440 Speaker 1: that just means that means we need somebody else connected, 693 00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:09,680 Speaker 1: because remember Dad came in after his predecessor left, right, 694 00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:14,439 Speaker 1: and then he got another five years. Uh, and then 695 00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:16,920 Speaker 1: just it's just the director of the CIA saying this 696 00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:20,280 Speaker 1: guy needs to be quote removed, that's all. It reminds 697 00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:23,800 Speaker 1: me of the super villain sketches for Mitchell and Webb. 698 00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:26,200 Speaker 1: So I've been watching a lot of it recently. But 699 00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:28,879 Speaker 1: he's like, perhaps it would be better if blah blah 700 00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:33,719 Speaker 1: blah was taken care of. And as one says, yeah, 701 00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:37,719 Speaker 1: there's one guy says, do you main murdered because last 702 00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:40,680 Speaker 1: time you told us to take care of someone, you know, 703 00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:43,359 Speaker 1: we took him out for a very nice dinner like 704 00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:46,799 Speaker 1: blah bla. Uh so yeah, yeah, but of course you're 705 00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:52,080 Speaker 1: never gonna say openly, You're never gonna say kill that person. 706 00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:56,160 Speaker 1: You're gonna say, handle the situation, you know, with extreme 707 00:46:56,160 --> 00:47:00,480 Speaker 1: prejudice or whatever. Anyway. So but and all, remember those 708 00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:04,120 Speaker 1: are files that the South African National Intelligence Agency had, 709 00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:07,960 Speaker 1: So those are communications from the CIA to them or 710 00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:13,160 Speaker 1: intercepted by them somehow, right strange bedfellows as always. So 711 00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:16,759 Speaker 1: there's a book that comes out, this awesome book by 712 00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:21,719 Speaker 1: an academic named Susan Williams called Who Killed Hammershold? And 713 00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:26,360 Speaker 1: this seems to be the thing that actually triggers a reinvestigation. 714 00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:31,799 Speaker 1: The United Nations under then Secretary bon Ki Moon says, okay, 715 00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:35,920 Speaker 1: we're gonna look back into it. So in they commissioned 716 00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:39,799 Speaker 1: a new investigation into the crash. Bonkie Moon says, they'll 717 00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:42,239 Speaker 1: do it in but it's the U n So you know, 718 00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:43,719 Speaker 1: it takes me a while to get up to gear. 719 00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:51,600 Speaker 1: And then this documentary Cold Case Hammershold comes out, exploring 720 00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:55,360 Speaker 1: the mercenary angle, and we already okay, we see that 721 00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:59,000 Speaker 1: people are finally admitting there's some sticky stuff. There's no 722 00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:04,480 Speaker 1: secret a Belgian mining interest. We're backing that Katangan secession, 723 00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:06,520 Speaker 1: and we're going to talk about that in a way 724 00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:10,600 Speaker 1: that a lot of mainstream or English news sources have not. 725 00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:15,200 Speaker 1: When you read this story, from like your Wikipedia's to 726 00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:19,840 Speaker 1: your Guardian articles to what have you Guardian does Greek journalism, 727 00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:22,680 Speaker 1: you're always going to see it referred to vaguely as 728 00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:28,280 Speaker 1: Belgian mining interest, which is a lot like saying computer company, 729 00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:34,160 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, like computer company, US, computer company. 730 00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:37,400 Speaker 1: I mean interests also has a it's a bit loaded. 731 00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:42,239 Speaker 1: It implies culpability, I would say, to a degree if 732 00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:45,720 Speaker 1: if if you've got something, you're you're an interested party 733 00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:52,040 Speaker 1: near suspect mm hmmmm. And so it's also not really 734 00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:55,719 Speaker 1: a secret that the US and Belgium both one a 735 00:48:55,880 --> 00:49:02,399 Speaker 1: hundred percent orchestrated the murder of La Mumba because he 736 00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:07,520 Speaker 1: wasn't playing ball with Western corporations. They assassinated the crap 737 00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:11,080 Speaker 1: out of that guy, and everyone was like during the time, 738 00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:13,799 Speaker 1: everyone was acting like, oh, it's so nuts, there's so 739 00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:17,040 Speaker 1: much well civil this order. Oh gosh, we just wish 740 00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:19,680 Speaker 1: there was a better way, but never copped to an 741 00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:25,399 Speaker 1: assassination as a country, right have we Mistakes were made, 742 00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:28,319 Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. It's all this kind of like 743 00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:31,719 Speaker 1: veiled vague language. It's never like we're like, yes, we 744 00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:34,920 Speaker 1: definitely did that. It's another one of these narratives, you know. 745 00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:38,760 Speaker 1: It's just the shifting narrative that's convenient for the ones 746 00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:42,320 Speaker 1: that did the bad thing. Or Congress comes in and says, 747 00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:46,560 Speaker 1: we had no knowledge of this. Yeah, just for my 748 00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:50,600 Speaker 1: own sake here, guys, La Mumba was head of Katonga 749 00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:56,880 Speaker 1: or or Rhodesia or Congo. So yeah, so he was 750 00:49:56,960 --> 00:50:01,919 Speaker 1: the first prime minister of the Congo. When it went independent, 751 00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:04,399 Speaker 1: it was called the Republic of the Congo and now 752 00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:09,520 Speaker 1: it's the modern day democratic Republic of the Congo. And yeah, 753 00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:12,680 Speaker 1: and so when he even went to the United States, 754 00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:17,160 Speaker 1: but he was he was ultimately executed, but it was 755 00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:21,000 Speaker 1: definitely the West had to have had a heavy hand 756 00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:23,480 Speaker 1: in it. And we could do the entire episode on 757 00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:28,360 Speaker 1: that if people are interested in learning more. Um anyway, 758 00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:33,600 Speaker 1: So at the very least, no matter how skeptical we 759 00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:35,920 Speaker 1: want to be, and you should be skeptical and all things, 760 00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:39,239 Speaker 1: we can say, there were a lot of very powerful, 761 00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:44,280 Speaker 1: very wealthy people who wouldn't be super upset. It wouldn't 762 00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:47,560 Speaker 1: ruin their day if the Dagmeister didn't make it off 763 00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:51,359 Speaker 1: that plane in one piece. If he were removed, if 764 00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:57,799 Speaker 1: from existence taken. Yes, the last time you told us 765 00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:03,439 Speaker 1: to remove someone, we just asked him to eve. He's 766 00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:07,279 Speaker 1: still that. He's still that basket robbins um anyway, so 767 00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:12,960 Speaker 1: he's almost We have to make a show, we have 768 00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:16,880 Speaker 1: to make a call. The cock is taking gentlemen. So 769 00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:20,040 Speaker 1: this is code pistachio brought to you by stuff. They 770 00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:22,960 Speaker 1: don't want to ice cream. By the way, I love 771 00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:25,880 Speaker 1: it too, I love thank you. So it's it's it's 772 00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:29,600 Speaker 1: it's it's it. It's controversial flavor. Some people are anti pistachio. 773 00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:32,440 Speaker 1: I'm not a big you know, I'm not. I'm not 774 00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:36,879 Speaker 1: a big sweet tooth person. But yeah, oh wow, Matt, 775 00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:40,839 Speaker 1: you got a horse. I do like pistachio. But thank 776 00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:45,120 Speaker 1: god coffee. If it's like coffee flavored or coffee involved 777 00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:46,880 Speaker 1: in some way like a moocha, that's where I'm at. 778 00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:49,960 Speaker 1: That's all. Oh yeah, that's dope too. It's fair. But 779 00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:52,920 Speaker 1: you're okay with pistachio. Oh yeah, we can still we 780 00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:55,239 Speaker 1: can still go to the baskets together, right, Okay? Cool? 781 00:51:55,400 --> 00:52:00,319 Speaker 1: I think it's I think it's important two exer some 782 00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:02,959 Speaker 1: strategy and group ice cream trips. I don't think people, 783 00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:04,759 Speaker 1: I don't think you should ever get the same ice 784 00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:07,440 Speaker 1: cream flavors as your compatriots. I think you've got to 785 00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:09,160 Speaker 1: spread it out, you know. That's why you go to 786 00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:11,520 Speaker 1: the cold Stone where they do the mashups. You know, 787 00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:14,080 Speaker 1: they mash them up, no, you know, and then you 788 00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:17,520 Speaker 1: get you get points for having the most creative concoction. 789 00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:19,600 Speaker 1: It's like, you know, when you take the soda at 790 00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:22,920 Speaker 1: the buffet and all the different flavors doesn't necessarily end 791 00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:26,160 Speaker 1: up a good flavor, but you definitely show that you're 792 00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:28,759 Speaker 1: willing to try new things. I think the only thing 793 00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:32,279 Speaker 1: I only like about cold ice creamer beside the fact 794 00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:34,400 Speaker 1: that I eat ice cream maybe once every two years, 795 00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:38,440 Speaker 1: is the uh is that they keep using the word slab, 796 00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:45,360 Speaker 1: and slab just sets off slab Anyway. It's actually technically 797 00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:49,879 Speaker 1: called an anti griddle, which is fun. What's no, it's 798 00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:51,920 Speaker 1: what it's called. It's like, instead of a hot griddle, 799 00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:55,720 Speaker 1: it's a cold griddle. It's called an anti griddle prophecy 800 00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:58,279 Speaker 1: in the Book of the Griddle, right the arrival of 801 00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:03,920 Speaker 1: the anti griddle. Uh so, uh so Dad is on 802 00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:08,680 Speaker 1: this slab and cannot tell his story. Uh, and he's 803 00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:12,799 Speaker 1: long dead by the time. Bon Ki Moon says, we're 804 00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:15,799 Speaker 1: going to do this new investigation and this this is 805 00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:21,320 Speaker 1: um really juicy stuff for the UN. Bon Ki Moon says, 806 00:53:22,120 --> 00:53:25,359 Speaker 1: We're going to look into stuff like was dog Commershold 807 00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:30,640 Speaker 1: assassinated by an apartheid era South African para military organization 808 00:53:30,719 --> 00:53:33,960 Speaker 1: that was backed by the CIA, British intelligence and a 809 00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:40,200 Speaker 1: Belgian mining company You been talking to like it seems 810 00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:42,400 Speaker 1: like you already got it all figured out, you know. 811 00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:46,919 Speaker 1: So the story continues. We're gonna pause for a word 812 00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:51,440 Speaker 1: from our sponsors and we'll return with and then some 813 00:53:51,560 --> 00:54:01,600 Speaker 1: modern twist. And we returned. And so, according to one 814 00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:07,960 Speaker 1: popular theory, Kantangi's separatists ordered a Belgian mercenary pilot by 815 00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:11,759 Speaker 1: the name of Jan von Rissigam to shoot down the 816 00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:15,840 Speaker 1: Secretary General's plane. H Von Risigum was mentioned as a 817 00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:19,680 Speaker 1: possible suspect in a cable, one of those diplomatic cables 818 00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:21,640 Speaker 1: we've heard so much about in the in the past 819 00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:25,080 Speaker 1: handful of years UH, sent by the US ambassador to 820 00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:30,520 Speaker 1: Congo just hours after the crash. Um but not declassified 821 00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:34,439 Speaker 1: until just we just want to clarify that a little bit. 822 00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:37,520 Speaker 1: That's the U. S. Ambassador to Congo right after this 823 00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:41,840 Speaker 1: thing happened, and this versus like, you should look at 824 00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:45,760 Speaker 1: this guy. This is uh, this is a Belgian pilot 825 00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:48,760 Speaker 1: that was trained by the Royal Air Force in Britain 826 00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:52,640 Speaker 1: who is now over here fighting for the separatist Just 827 00:54:52,640 --> 00:54:54,800 Speaker 1: just you should look a bit of a red flag. 828 00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:59,600 Speaker 1: And then Truman later says they killed him. Yeah, to 829 00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:05,719 Speaker 1: be they or to be completely vague rather right, to 830 00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:09,640 Speaker 1: be very vague, they killed him. Uh so Jan Van 831 00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:15,640 Speaker 1: rising him really interesting. Dude never gets interviewed about the crash. Um. 832 00:55:15,719 --> 00:55:18,600 Speaker 1: Initially people are saying the flight logs prove he wasn't 833 00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:20,839 Speaker 1: an air at the time, and this is something that 834 00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:27,760 Speaker 1: he maintains. Uh, he maintained, never maintained, right spoiler um. 835 00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:31,120 Speaker 1: And when we say never interview, he has not interviewed 836 00:55:31,239 --> 00:55:34,719 Speaker 1: at the time the way, even though people clearly like 837 00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:39,120 Speaker 1: him for it. That documentary we mentioned earlier, Cold Case 838 00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:45,160 Speaker 1: hammershold interviews people who spent time with Jon Afterwards, Folks 839 00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:49,919 Speaker 1: like Pierre Copen's Coppins, who is a parachutist, knows Van 840 00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:54,399 Speaker 1: rissing him, and Pierre swears up and down. He's like, look, 841 00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:57,080 Speaker 1: I hang out with the guy. We're sitting around at 842 00:55:57,080 --> 00:55:59,640 Speaker 1: the bar. We're sitting around waiting for the rain to 843 00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:02,600 Speaker 1: die down so we can walk away. He starts mentioning 844 00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:05,840 Speaker 1: this story and bits and pieces and uh, he tells 845 00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:09,719 Speaker 1: me he brought down this plane in Zambia back in 846 00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:12,480 Speaker 1: the day, and he feels bad because he didn't know 847 00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:15,120 Speaker 1: the leader of the u N was a board, which 848 00:56:15,160 --> 00:56:18,359 Speaker 1: is a weird kind of like, you know, people are 849 00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:21,480 Speaker 1: all storytellers, I guess, but that's a pretty consistent story 850 00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:26,000 Speaker 1: to tell. And uh, yeah, there's this other guy named 851 00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:29,800 Speaker 1: Roger Brocko. Oh this is the thing. So Van Rissingham's 852 00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:33,319 Speaker 1: uh story about his flight logs, his flight books, his 853 00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:36,840 Speaker 1: log books are that, uh, you know, he's a professional, 854 00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:39,480 Speaker 1: he's not some boy scout. This isn't Mickey mouse stuff. 855 00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:43,680 Speaker 1: It's important and his flight logs have not been doctored. 856 00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:47,320 Speaker 1: But multiple other people, including a guy who was flying 857 00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:50,279 Speaker 1: around the same time in the same area Roger Brocko, 858 00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:55,520 Speaker 1: talk about how Van Rissigham's log books are riddled with forgeries, 859 00:56:55,600 --> 00:57:01,080 Speaker 1: like fake names, weird times, all sorts of shady stuff. 860 00:57:01,600 --> 00:57:06,759 Speaker 1: And Van Risighem is never charged with anything related to this. 861 00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:12,520 Speaker 1: No accusations, um, despite the fact that multiple weird things 862 00:57:12,600 --> 00:57:15,960 Speaker 1: are coming out over the decades. UM. Back to the 863 00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:19,680 Speaker 1: book by Susan Williams and a couple of other sources 864 00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:24,640 Speaker 1: have confirmed this. A former US spy came forward after 865 00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:28,040 Speaker 1: the fact and uh and said, look, I was posted 866 00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:31,960 Speaker 1: at what's called a listening station in Cyprus. This is uh, 867 00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:35,040 Speaker 1: this is the old days before you know, like the 868 00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:38,440 Speaker 1: n s A or someone could just vacuum up all 869 00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:44,040 Speaker 1: electronic communication data. Yeah, analog and humanly operating. Yeah. So 870 00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:47,880 Speaker 1: this guy is just sitting there with some headphones tuning 871 00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:54,320 Speaker 1: into stuff checking. Shut up, shut up up. Wait it's 872 00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:58,800 Speaker 1: the Dick Dan Dyke show. Damnit. Um. So uh he's 873 00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:01,880 Speaker 1: this spy. I says that they heard a recording of 874 00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:06,320 Speaker 1: a pilot pretty much narrating the attack as it unfolds, 875 00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:09,520 Speaker 1: the same kind of the same way that in the 876 00:58:09,640 --> 00:58:13,640 Speaker 1: earlier days of the Internet people would film street fights 877 00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:17,160 Speaker 1: while they were happening and like narrate them while screaming 878 00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:21,360 Speaker 1: world star. It's one from internet. Heads are like these 879 00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:24,440 Speaker 1: these guys will watch Major League Baseball and then just 880 00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:28,240 Speaker 1: like tell you what's happening on the STA that's just 881 00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:31,439 Speaker 1: that's just radio, that's just announcers. Yeah, yeah, okay, never mind. 882 00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:36,360 Speaker 1: Yes they're they're the ones who have a job doing that. 883 00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:39,440 Speaker 1: But because this U and it is a skill set 884 00:58:39,480 --> 00:58:43,800 Speaker 1: we're not doing in you guys. I love it too, 885 00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:45,880 Speaker 1: That's it. I mean, it's kind of a tough job too, 886 00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:47,600 Speaker 1: when you think about it, because it's like, when do 887 00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:51,360 Speaker 1: you talk versus when do you let people like I 888 00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:55,800 Speaker 1: feel like it's easier in slower sports, yeah, I think 889 00:58:55,800 --> 00:58:59,600 Speaker 1: you can tell you could, Like there's never there's never 890 00:58:59,600 --> 00:59:05,840 Speaker 1: somebody announcing a billiard's game screaming like at that's the 891 00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:09,760 Speaker 1: seven in the pocket or anything, you know, the same 892 00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:12,680 Speaker 1: way people in football screen goal what I don't know's 893 00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:15,600 Speaker 1: get pretty excited about billiards, but they call it snooker. 894 00:59:17,120 --> 00:59:22,600 Speaker 1: Now that's why they get excited. We've solved it. So anyway, 895 00:59:23,120 --> 00:59:26,800 Speaker 1: there's this guy doing this like, uh, sports announcement. It's 896 00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:30,600 Speaker 1: not a sports announcement, its procedural stuff. A pilot would say, um, 897 00:59:30,600 --> 00:59:33,880 Speaker 1: and this is transmitted just minutes after the crash, once 898 00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:37,880 Speaker 1: you've lined up the timetables. And then Pierre Cuppen's the parachutist, 899 00:59:38,240 --> 00:59:41,400 Speaker 1: says his buddy, his bar buddy, Yawn lays out the 900 00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:46,160 Speaker 1: details of this complicated plan, names the jet he uses, 901 00:59:46,840 --> 00:59:50,080 Speaker 1: and then describes the plan over time, like how he 902 00:59:50,120 --> 00:59:52,680 Speaker 1: has to strip all this stuff out of the plane, 903 00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:56,360 Speaker 1: he has to install a weapon on the plane, he 904 00:59:56,400 --> 00:59:59,360 Speaker 1: has to reduce the weight for his range a fuel 905 00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:02,240 Speaker 1: tanks to els, and where he took off from, and 906 01:00:02,280 --> 01:00:06,600 Speaker 1: then um, how it was a huge challenge to take 907 01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:09,200 Speaker 1: a jet into the air from where he did. But 908 01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:14,320 Speaker 1: he's just that good because pilots, like surgeons sometimes like 909 01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:17,920 Speaker 1: to talk about how they're that good at least like 910 01:00:18,040 --> 01:00:21,000 Speaker 1: this kind of this kind of pilot, he fits that thing. 911 01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:24,480 Speaker 1: You know, we actually have a lot of fellow conspiracy 912 01:00:24,520 --> 01:00:27,240 Speaker 1: realists to her pilots, and and be safe up there, 913 01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:30,720 Speaker 1: because you're doing hard work that most people cannot do. 914 01:00:30,840 --> 01:00:34,520 Speaker 1: You're literally rarefied air. Did Yahn shoot down the plane? 915 01:00:34,840 --> 01:00:38,360 Speaker 1: We'll never know for sure. He died in two thousand seven, 916 01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:43,160 Speaker 1: never went to court, never like the accusations never got official. 917 01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:47,760 Speaker 1: He was never even officially interviewed as part of an inquiry. 918 01:00:47,960 --> 01:00:51,320 Speaker 1: And remember the fact of his potential involvement was only 919 01:00:51,360 --> 01:00:57,600 Speaker 1: declassified seven years after his death. I mean, it happens 920 01:00:57,680 --> 01:01:00,600 Speaker 1: like that's why why does everybody think we keep checking 921 01:01:00,600 --> 01:01:03,160 Speaker 1: on whether or not Henry Kissinger is alive each given 922 01:01:03,200 --> 01:01:04,520 Speaker 1: day as a matter of fact, Hold on it. I 923 01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:10,880 Speaker 1: don't care. One day it will be uh, he says, 924 01:01:10,880 --> 01:01:14,960 Speaker 1: every day he wakes up, not today, death not today. 925 01:01:16,560 --> 01:01:19,200 Speaker 1: Uh yep, No, he is going to be a hundred 926 01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:23,200 Speaker 1: years old at seven this year anyhow, So and Cheney 927 01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:28,480 Speaker 1: is also alive. Okay, okay, well we've done our checks. Uh. 928 01:01:28,520 --> 01:01:32,600 Speaker 1: Look as we're wrapping up here, it seems pretty clear too. 929 01:01:34,040 --> 01:01:36,640 Speaker 1: We're gonna speak for everybody, but it seems pretty clear. 930 01:01:37,160 --> 01:01:40,160 Speaker 1: It's just my opinion that dog commerce Hold was murdered 931 01:01:41,040 --> 01:01:47,480 Speaker 1: because the independence of a peaceful Congo that was representing 932 01:01:47,520 --> 01:01:50,400 Speaker 1: the interest of its people instead of selling out to 933 01:01:50,480 --> 01:01:54,400 Speaker 1: Western powers was a threat to profits and to the 934 01:01:54,400 --> 01:01:58,920 Speaker 1: ability to build powerful weapons of war. I mean, you know, 935 01:01:59,080 --> 01:02:02,280 Speaker 1: it's it's happened all the time, Like the colonialism stuff 936 01:02:02,360 --> 01:02:06,640 Speaker 1: never really ended. There's a real reason France begged everyone 937 01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:09,520 Speaker 1: to take down Gaddafi. You know, it wasn't human rights. 938 01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:11,720 Speaker 1: I mean, to put a fine point on it, it 939 01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:16,320 Speaker 1: was control of the currency. Anyway, Like this doesn't this 940 01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:18,520 Speaker 1: is where we should end. So the thing that doesn't 941 01:02:18,520 --> 01:02:24,320 Speaker 1: get mentioned often talked about it mining interest Belgian mining 942 01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:28,560 Speaker 1: companies very vague because for some reason, no one wants 943 01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:34,360 Speaker 1: to say the Mining Union of Upper Katanka, which is it. 944 01:02:34,600 --> 01:02:38,120 Speaker 1: That's that's who did it, that's who participated in it. Uh, 945 01:02:38,200 --> 01:02:41,200 Speaker 1: they don't get name checked. Okay, I wouldn't say it 946 01:02:41,240 --> 01:02:45,080 Speaker 1: for sure, but very likely that they are the ones 947 01:02:45,080 --> 01:02:49,120 Speaker 1: who did it. Because this mining company runs so deep 948 01:02:49,320 --> 01:02:55,160 Speaker 1: from n O six to nineteen sixty seven, it is uh. 949 01:02:55,200 --> 01:03:00,160 Speaker 1: It is the biggest business in the Belgian Congo and 950 01:03:00,720 --> 01:03:05,200 Speaker 1: after for a short time after the country goes independent, 951 01:03:05,440 --> 01:03:09,880 Speaker 1: if functions as a state power, just like um oh 952 01:03:10,000 --> 01:03:14,280 Speaker 1: there Chiquita now United Fruit Company and Guatemala they were 953 01:03:14,320 --> 01:03:18,840 Speaker 1: a state power basically uh. And this mining company is 954 01:03:18,880 --> 01:03:24,680 Speaker 1: like building schools, hospitals, sporting arenas. So like the announcers, 955 01:03:24,720 --> 01:03:28,160 Speaker 1: they are probably paid by the mining thing at a 956 01:03:28,200 --> 01:03:32,400 Speaker 1: certain size and scope. In a free market economy, like 957 01:03:32,560 --> 01:03:36,880 Speaker 1: a business becomes indistinguishable from a government entity because of 958 01:03:36,960 --> 01:03:41,680 Speaker 1: the connections there in you know, like that. I know 959 01:03:41,800 --> 01:03:44,120 Speaker 1: there are a lot of companies that were like that 960 01:03:44,200 --> 01:03:46,320 Speaker 1: in the US. I want to say, guys, I can't 961 01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:49,720 Speaker 1: remember if it was in the forties or fifties, maybe 962 01:03:49,720 --> 01:03:53,080 Speaker 1: fifties and sixties where it's like in that Ohio River 963 01:03:53,160 --> 01:03:57,680 Speaker 1: Valley area kind of up in the northeast of the 964 01:03:57,760 --> 01:03:59,840 Speaker 1: US where their whole towns that were built around the 965 01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:02,360 Speaker 1: factory and then schools get built by the fat by 966 01:04:02,400 --> 01:04:05,840 Speaker 1: the company and all that stuff. Same thing. Who maso 967 01:04:06,240 --> 01:04:10,240 Speaker 1: to the company, stole the company store where you could 968 01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:15,120 Speaker 1: use currency that the company would get a grip then bucks. 969 01:04:15,120 --> 01:04:18,120 Speaker 1: Oh gosh, thank you. Well it's on the way back, uh, 970 01:04:18,360 --> 01:04:22,160 Speaker 1: company towns unfortunately, but yes, So just to give you 971 01:04:22,200 --> 01:04:28,840 Speaker 1: a snapshot here, folks, this mining interest, which in nineteen 972 01:04:28,920 --> 01:04:32,920 Speaker 1: sixty seven it banded together with some other places to 973 01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:36,560 Speaker 1: become plain Old Mining Union, took up our Katanga out 974 01:04:36,560 --> 01:04:43,120 Speaker 1: of the name. But in nineteen fifty nine the Belgian 975 01:04:43,360 --> 01:04:47,600 Speaker 1: profits from this were three point five billion Belgian francs 976 01:04:48,640 --> 01:04:54,000 Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty nine money and expo right and the 977 01:04:54,120 --> 01:04:57,200 Speaker 1: export duties that they paid to the government of Congo 978 01:04:57,560 --> 01:05:04,760 Speaker 1: were fifty of the entire government revenue. Yeah, in nineteen 979 01:05:04,880 --> 01:05:09,440 Speaker 1: sixty this one company made six of all the uranium 980 01:05:09,480 --> 01:05:12,560 Speaker 1: that was used by the West, seventy of all the 981 01:05:12,600 --> 01:05:16,760 Speaker 1: cobalt of the copper distant third. But still that's a 982 01:05:16,800 --> 01:05:23,800 Speaker 1: lot of copper, right, Uh yeah, so yeah, that's a 983 01:05:23,800 --> 01:05:27,200 Speaker 1: lot of copper. This thing is real important. Yeah yeah, 984 01:05:27,440 --> 01:05:31,120 Speaker 1: they've got they they've got the big stick to swing around. 985 01:05:31,320 --> 01:05:35,200 Speaker 1: Right to our Roosevelt reference earlier when the larger Congo 986 01:05:35,320 --> 01:05:39,960 Speaker 1: became independent. This is the company that bankrolled the secession 987 01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:44,800 Speaker 1: of Katonga because they thought, otto this uh, this new 988 01:05:44,840 --> 01:05:48,600 Speaker 1: government is coming in, they might nationalize our assets, they 989 01:05:48,680 --> 01:05:52,360 Speaker 1: might stop our griff, they might take our profits. Uh. 990 01:05:52,400 --> 01:05:57,959 Speaker 1: The Katonga secession does eventually fail, but only after that 991 01:05:58,800 --> 01:06:02,840 Speaker 1: President Mumba uh is wiped off the map, maybe not 992 01:06:03,640 --> 01:06:06,720 Speaker 1: right as he right, maybe maybe still alive, but he's 993 01:06:06,760 --> 01:06:11,120 Speaker 1: fallen from power. Eventually the Congo does take over that 994 01:06:11,160 --> 01:06:14,680 Speaker 1: mining company or big big chunks of it. Production falters 995 01:06:14,720 --> 01:06:18,040 Speaker 1: and fails. The official narrative for why it falters and 996 01:06:18,080 --> 01:06:20,880 Speaker 1: fails is that there was a lack of expertise once 997 01:06:20,880 --> 01:06:23,840 Speaker 1: it got nationalized. But there are there's a lot of 998 01:06:23,880 --> 01:06:27,680 Speaker 1: shadowy space to put some intervening variables in there, and 999 01:06:27,720 --> 01:06:31,160 Speaker 1: knowing what we know about the high likelihood that mining 1000 01:06:31,200 --> 01:06:36,280 Speaker 1: companies and their operatives in intelligence agencies did wax dag Hammer. 1001 01:06:36,280 --> 01:06:39,120 Speaker 1: Should we have to ask what happened to the mining company. 1002 01:06:39,400 --> 01:06:42,600 Speaker 1: You know, they've done such a great job of staying 1003 01:06:42,640 --> 01:06:46,960 Speaker 1: out of English language news. I think you got to 1004 01:06:46,960 --> 01:06:49,920 Speaker 1: reveal this one, Ben. You found it, man, you discovered it. 1005 01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:55,040 Speaker 1: In two thousand and one, the mining union became a 1006 01:06:55,080 --> 01:06:59,360 Speaker 1: company called UMI Corp. Umi Corp. You am I core 1007 01:07:00,120 --> 01:07:04,240 Speaker 1: and uh. They are still in business today. No one 1008 01:07:04,280 --> 01:07:07,600 Speaker 1: got in trouble, no one went to jail. They're doing 1009 01:07:07,680 --> 01:07:10,200 Speaker 1: less mining now. If you go to their website, they 1010 01:07:10,240 --> 01:07:14,320 Speaker 1: want you to know that they're super into recycling. Awesome. 1011 01:07:15,160 --> 01:07:20,520 Speaker 1: Well I'm I'm I'm placated. Oh yeah, me too. Chor 1012 01:07:20,680 --> 01:07:23,440 Speaker 1: just sounds it's like a like an anime, you know, 1013 01:07:23,600 --> 01:07:26,280 Speaker 1: streaming service or something. You know, it just sounds really 1014 01:07:26,360 --> 01:07:30,720 Speaker 1: like friendly. Yeah, yeah, I would just have to I 1015 01:07:30,760 --> 01:07:33,200 Speaker 1: think we have to say we cannot prove that they 1016 01:07:33,200 --> 01:07:36,760 Speaker 1: had anything to do with the death of Hammer. Should, 1017 01:07:37,680 --> 01:07:46,479 Speaker 1: but something feels like it feels like they did, right wink. Okay, Yes, 1018 01:07:46,560 --> 01:07:50,439 Speaker 1: that's true. We cannot prove this. They have never been 1019 01:07:50,760 --> 01:07:56,480 Speaker 1: um charged or the company has never been convicted. And 1020 01:07:56,520 --> 01:07:58,840 Speaker 1: that's a predecessor company. You know, it may be very 1021 01:07:58,880 --> 01:08:02,919 Speaker 1: different from current interest today, it almost certainly is right. 1022 01:08:04,040 --> 01:08:08,320 Speaker 1: But we can say that they were by far the 1023 01:08:08,440 --> 01:08:12,920 Speaker 1: largest resource extraction operation at the time. Uh, they had 1024 01:08:12,960 --> 01:08:19,200 Speaker 1: a very vested interest in the Katanga region and Dog 1025 01:08:19,320 --> 01:08:25,519 Speaker 1: Commerce Gold was probably murdered by someone. Uh Like, that's 1026 01:08:26,000 --> 01:08:28,719 Speaker 1: I think we can say that safely. But at this point, 1027 01:08:28,720 --> 01:08:31,120 Speaker 1: you know, we we know we've got a little bit long. 1028 01:08:32,000 --> 01:08:34,760 Speaker 1: We hope you enjoyed today's episode and we want to 1029 01:08:35,200 --> 01:08:37,880 Speaker 1: want to pass it to you, fellow conspiracy realists. What 1030 01:08:37,880 --> 01:08:41,400 Speaker 1: do you think are there are other fatal accidents that 1031 01:08:41,520 --> 01:08:45,200 Speaker 1: you believe might have been purposeful murders or assassinations. We 1032 01:08:45,240 --> 01:08:47,759 Speaker 1: would love to hear about these, especially if they're stories 1033 01:08:47,800 --> 01:08:50,839 Speaker 1: like that of Dog commerciald which has kind of fallen 1034 01:08:50,880 --> 01:08:54,320 Speaker 1: off the mainstream map. Everybody knows or has their own 1035 01:08:54,360 --> 01:08:58,519 Speaker 1: opinions about JFK, Martin Luther King, JR RFK and so on, 1036 01:08:59,120 --> 01:09:02,400 Speaker 1: But we me hear about the DAGs of the world 1037 01:09:02,560 --> 01:09:06,520 Speaker 1: because they're way more out there than most people suspect. 1038 01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:08,360 Speaker 1: That's right, and you can get in touch with us 1039 01:09:08,479 --> 01:09:12,599 Speaker 1: via the internet if you wish. We are conspiracy stuff 1040 01:09:12,640 --> 01:09:16,639 Speaker 1: on Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook, where we have a Facebook 1041 01:09:16,640 --> 01:09:19,720 Speaker 1: group called Here's where it Gets Crazy. Conspiracy stuff on 1042 01:09:19,760 --> 01:09:23,120 Speaker 1: Instagram and TikTok. We have a book and if you 1043 01:09:23,160 --> 01:09:26,439 Speaker 1: like learning about assassinations, there's a whole chapter in there 1044 01:09:26,520 --> 01:09:29,439 Speaker 1: for you. Check it out book it's called stuff they 1045 01:09:29,439 --> 01:09:30,720 Speaker 1: don't want you to know. You can find it in 1046 01:09:30,720 --> 01:09:34,360 Speaker 1: audiobook form and real book form all over the place. 1047 01:09:34,760 --> 01:09:37,080 Speaker 1: We also have a phone number if you like talking 1048 01:09:37,120 --> 01:09:40,240 Speaker 1: on the phone. That's true. You can give us a 1049 01:09:40,400 --> 01:09:43,879 Speaker 1: call wherever you are at in this wide wide world, 1050 01:09:44,080 --> 01:09:47,479 Speaker 1: any time of day. Time. Zones don't matter when it 1051 01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:50,920 Speaker 1: comes to telephones. Uh, it's one eight three three. Say 1052 01:09:50,960 --> 01:09:54,679 Speaker 1: it with us. St d W y t K. You'll 1053 01:09:54,760 --> 01:09:58,120 Speaker 1: hear hopefully familiar voice, will hear a BP like so beep. 1054 01:09:58,400 --> 01:10:01,000 Speaker 1: That is your signal to that's so. That's like your 1055 01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:03,719 Speaker 1: gun at the racetrack. You've got three minutes, they're yours. 1056 01:10:03,840 --> 01:10:06,760 Speaker 1: Run the course, go wild, get nuts. Give yourself that 1057 01:10:06,880 --> 01:10:09,360 Speaker 1: nickname you always want to tell us if we can 1058 01:10:09,439 --> 01:10:13,200 Speaker 1: use your name and or voice on air, and uh, 1059 01:10:13,360 --> 01:10:16,439 Speaker 1: most importantly, don't censor yourself. If you have links to 1060 01:10:16,479 --> 01:10:18,679 Speaker 1: send us, if you have pictures, if you have something 1061 01:10:18,720 --> 01:10:22,400 Speaker 1: that needs more than three minutes to explain, we cannot 1062 01:10:22,400 --> 01:10:24,280 Speaker 1: wait to hear from you all you have to do 1063 01:10:24,400 --> 01:10:26,320 Speaker 1: is drop us a line at our good old fashioned 1064 01:10:26,320 --> 01:10:49,120 Speaker 1: email address where we are conspiracy at iHeart radio dot com. 1065 01:10:49,280 --> 01:10:51,360 Speaker 1: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production 1066 01:10:51,400 --> 01:10:54,519 Speaker 1: of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, 1067 01:10:54,640 --> 01:10:57,640 Speaker 1: visit the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 1068 01:10:57,720 --> 01:10:58,880 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.