1 00:00:01,200 --> 00:00:01,960 Speaker 1: Hello, guys. 2 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 2: I am so happy to be bringing you more many questions, 3 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:11,399 Speaker 2: but I'd be lying if I said it wasn't with 4 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:18,240 Speaker 2: an extraordinarily heavy heart. As my home is currently under siege. 5 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 2: It feels like from wildfires and wins. So many of 6 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 2: my friends and so many people have lost everything. I 7 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 2: wanted to acknowledge that before sharing more stuff that I've made, 8 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 2: we made it with joy. If you are able to, 9 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 2: if you feel willing, donating to the Humane Society dot 10 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 2: org in Los Angeles who have an emergency animal relief fund, 11 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:50,559 Speaker 2: or donating to Pasadena Humane dot org, which is an 12 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 2: emergency shelter and may have been unbelievable in taking animals 13 00:00:54,800 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 2: in throughout this nightmarish situation. The Lafoodbank dot org and 14 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 2: the Redcross dot org are all places that would gratefully 15 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 2: receive donations that will make real time difference to people. 16 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: That's it, That's what I got. 17 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 2: I really hope you enjoy this season and these beautiful conversations. 18 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 2: I love making this show. This show was born in 19 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 2: Los Angeles, in my house with me and my computer 20 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 2: and my amazing producer, Aaron, and I want to keep 21 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:34,839 Speaker 2: sharing through hard times and good times so please enjoy 22 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 2: these episodes, and if you are listening from California, you 23 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 2: stay safe. The very first time I met you was 24 00:01:57,160 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 2: through my car window exiting right that movie theater on 25 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 2: Sunset was The Sunset. 26 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 3: Set, Yeah, Sunset, and I've just seen. 27 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:08,519 Speaker 1: Best in the show. We'd literally just been to see 28 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 1: the film and with your. 29 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 3: Sister, right, yeah, yeah, I remember that. 30 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, that when we lost our minds. 31 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, and I lost our minds. 32 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 3: That was a big moment in my life. 33 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 4: So thank you. 34 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 1: Hello, I'm Mini Driver. I've always loved Preust's questionnaire. It 35 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 1: was originally in nineteenth century parlor. 36 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 2: Game where players would ask each other thirty five questions 37 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 2: aimed at revealing. 38 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 1: The other player's true nature. 39 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:37,920 Speaker 2: In asking different people the same set of questions, you 40 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 2: can make observations about which truths appear to be universal. 41 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 2: And it made me wonder, what if these questions were 42 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 2: just the jumping off point, what greater depths would be 43 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 2: revealed if I asked these questions as conversation starters. 44 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 1: So I adapted. 45 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 2: Pru's questionnaire and I wrote my own seven questions that 46 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 2: I personally think are pertinent to a person's story. 47 00:02:57,760 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 1: They are when and where. 48 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 2: Were you happiest? What is the quality you like least 49 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 2: about yourself? What relationship, real or fictionalized, defines love for you? 50 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 2: What question would you most like answered, What person, place, 51 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 2: or experience has shaped you the most? What would be 52 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:16,360 Speaker 2: your last meal? And can you tell me something in 53 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 2: your life that's grown out of a personal disaster? And 54 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 2: I've gathered a group of really remarkable people, ones that 55 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 2: I am honored and humbled to have had the chance 56 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 2: to engage with. You may not hear their answers to 57 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 2: all seven of these questions. We've whittled it down to 58 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:37,559 Speaker 2: which questions felt closest to their experience, or the most surprising, 59 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 2: or created the most fertile ground to connect. My guest 60 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 2: today is the legend that is Jane Lynch. From playing 61 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 2: Christy Cummings in Christopher Guest's Best in Show, to Sue 62 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 2: Sylvester on Glee, to Saz Pataki on Only Murders in 63 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 2: the Building, there are very few actors who have made 64 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 2: me laugh as hard as Jane has and for so 65 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 2: many years. 66 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 1: On the show. 67 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 2: We talk about our shared love of companionship and independence, 68 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 2: and I reminded her of the first time we met 69 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 2: when I was driving out of the parking at the 70 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 2: movie theater where I just watched Best in Show, and 71 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 2: I saw her walking down the street and I rolled 72 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 2: down the window and I just screamed, like. 73 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:27,360 Speaker 1: I said, she's a legend. What is the quality you 74 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 1: like least about yourself? 75 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:34,479 Speaker 3: Let's see my narrator in my head. 76 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 4: Ah. 77 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:41,040 Speaker 2: My boyfriend calls that the bad guest. Oh good, And 78 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 2: in fact, I was tearful yesterday morning about something, and 79 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:47,920 Speaker 2: he said, the bad guest has arrived. And instead of 80 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:50,599 Speaker 2: you telling them to get the fuck out of your house, 81 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 2: you're not welcome here. 82 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 1: You are a bad guest. Get out. 83 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 2: I sit down and entertain them and try to feed 84 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 2: them seven different types of food, try to appease them, 85 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:04,279 Speaker 2: listen to them, and allow them to have the floor. Yeah, 86 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 2: so tell me about your narrator slash bad guest. 87 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 3: Well, sometimes the narrator isn't even really telling me bad 88 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:14,160 Speaker 3: things about myself or damn. 89 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 4: It's like from watching television too much as a kid. 90 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 3: I'm always telling a story to comfort myself or to 91 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 3: enrage myself. There's just constant commentary that isn't even really me. 92 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:33,159 Speaker 3: It's about maybe it is a bad guest. It's like 93 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:38,719 Speaker 3: obsessed with fixing things. Well, we need to do that, 94 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 3: and then we need to do that, and before I 95 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:42,840 Speaker 3: go over there and have to do it. It's obsessive, compulsive, 96 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:46,239 Speaker 3: and it sometimes is relentless. 97 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:49,679 Speaker 1: Is there any way of shutting it off? 98 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:52,479 Speaker 2: Is there anything that you do that is a definitive 99 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 2: turns the volume down on the nariety there is? 100 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:56,040 Speaker 4: I've been gardening a lot. 101 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:57,919 Speaker 3: I don't know if you can tell, Probably not, but 102 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 3: I have a bump into black eyes. They're kind of yellow. 103 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 3: I put makeup on, but I've been crazy gardening and 104 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 3: I took a big pot and I put it down 105 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:11,479 Speaker 3: and I hit my head on top of the fence 106 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 3: and had like a goose egg and then woke up 107 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:14,600 Speaker 3: with two black eyes. 108 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 4: They're yellow. Now I'm fine. 109 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:22,360 Speaker 2: But anyway, that's honestly come by though, I mean, yes, it's. 110 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 1: Honest hard work. 111 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:26,480 Speaker 3: And then I don't have that narrator go seepy times. 112 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 2: Do you think it's because it's doing this other thing. 113 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 2: I'm sure that neurologically using another part of your brain 114 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 2: to do something creative does this silencing thing. But do 115 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 2: you think it's like being in nature, like physically connecting 116 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 2: with something else. I think it is now I do 117 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:44,600 Speaker 2: the same thing on I I surfing, Yeah, or if 118 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 2: I go in the ocean and swim, does the same thing. 119 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:49,160 Speaker 2: It's the only real way of shutting. 120 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 3: That fom and it shuts everything. You become quiet of 121 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:56,839 Speaker 3: mind when you're doing that. It's like meditation. It's the 122 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:00,600 Speaker 3: discursive mind quiet. 123 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,359 Speaker 1: Discursive mind quiet, Yeah, the narrator quiet. 124 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 3: All stuff that we all are habitually conditioned. The programs 125 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 3: need to keep running, yeah, they stop. And living in 126 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 3: nature is a really important thing to do. 127 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 1: They taught it in the school that I went to. 128 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: You were quite literally taught that. 129 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 2: But if I was fucking around in class, which I 130 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 2: think I was probably ADHD when I was a kid, 131 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 2: or maybe still am, and I couldn't sit still or 132 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 2: stop talking, and they would routinely send me outside to 133 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 2: go and run around all these fields and these orchards. 134 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 2: They were like do a lap and come back wow. 135 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 2: Or they would be like do a handstand. 136 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 3: And it worked. 137 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, it truly worked. 138 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 2: I really believe that. Yeah, it was amazing. We should 139 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 2: be teaching that in the actual ways of dealing with 140 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 2: what I think we would now call anxiety. Those voices, 141 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 2: whether that's a narrator or a commentator, or a bad 142 00:07:55,280 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 2: guest or whomever that other voice commenting negatively or creating 143 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 2: negative reaction. 144 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 1: It's quite simple. 145 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 2: The solution, remove yourself from your current situation, go and 146 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 2: do something else. And I do think that being outside, 147 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 2: even if it's a walk around your block, does that. 148 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, that is so important, you know. I called myself, 149 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 3: I said to myself, the narrator, said to myself this morning, 150 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 3: I'm kind of an Akham's razor, Gal. 151 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 4: You know what that is. 152 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 3: Okham's razor is go to the simplest solution for something. 153 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 3: And for a child losing their little mind, anxiety and whatever, 154 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 3: which is normal for a child, what's the simplest solution, 155 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 3: Move them, move them in nature. Do it absolutely, you know, 156 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 3: And I think that that's good for us too. There 157 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 3: are simple answers to so much simple simple. 158 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 2: By the way, that's the other thing that I'm a 159 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 2: huge proponent of, which is the solution to your problem 160 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:57,559 Speaker 2: is never commence your in size with the problem. 161 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: It is always a little tiny flicker. 162 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 2: Of the needle in another direction will have this huge effect. 163 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 2: And I think we get stuck in the notion of 164 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 2: when a problem feels overwhelming, the idea that we've got 165 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 2: to find a solution that is as big as the problem, 166 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 2: and it's just not true. It really is as simple 167 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 2: as sometimes taking your shoes and socks off and standing outside. 168 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 1: Of the ground taking a shower, yeah, or going to sleep. 169 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:23,560 Speaker 3: You're absolutely right, because our mind, it's our mind and 170 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 3: our narrator and the unwelcome guest that tells us how 171 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 3: big something is, and it's never that big. 172 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 2: Is that left over from like the saber tooth tiger? 173 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 2: Like is that really just like reptilian brain just going, 174 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 2: You've got to have my voice going roll the rock 175 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:40,439 Speaker 2: in front of the cave because the tiger's coming, right, 176 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:45,080 Speaker 2: Is it left over? Yeah, to the idea of trying 177 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:47,439 Speaker 2: to foresee danger's constantly. 178 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 3: That that is my thing, is it's averting some danger. 179 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 3: But I would imagine that that that is true from 180 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:56,840 Speaker 3: most of humanity, and I think that we've gotten so 181 00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 3: far away from ourselves we can't even identify that that's 182 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 3: what it is. All we know is we have this 183 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:05,559 Speaker 3: free floating anxiety, and it causes us to do stupid 184 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:09,680 Speaker 3: things like vote, vote for stupid people and elections because 185 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 3: it feels so big, and this one person says, I 186 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 3: got it. 187 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 4: Don't you worry about it? I got it? 188 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, fair, Yeah. 189 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 3: I think fear is a big motivating thing and also 190 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 3: free floating. 191 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 4: You know that we can't attach it to anything. 192 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:35,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, untethered anxiety agreed? When and when will you happiest? 193 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:38,320 Speaker 3: I could think of one moment where I thought I 194 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 3: was going to burst out of my body. I have 195 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 3: a very good friend. Her name is Laura Coyle, and 196 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 3: we've been friends now for about thirty years. But we 197 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 3: were on Melrose in West Hollywood in like nineteen ninety five. 198 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 3: It almost sounds like I'm in love with her, and 199 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 3: I am in a way, just not that kind of 200 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:58,560 Speaker 3: romantic love. And she was in the candy Slash ice 201 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 3: cream shop picking something up for us, and I was 202 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 3: sitting at the little table waiting for her and looked inside, 203 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 3: and I looked at her doing her Laura Coyle thing, 204 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 3: which is kind of ordering people around and yet at 205 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 3: the same time being really, you know, sweet and wonderful 206 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:16,319 Speaker 3: and open hearted and generous and kind. And I thought, 207 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 3: I don't think I've ever been happier in my life 208 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:19,560 Speaker 3: than I am right now. 209 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 4: To be in. 210 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:25,439 Speaker 3: The wake of this person, of this person's energy and 211 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 3: zest for life, and it inspired it in me and 212 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 3: I will never forget that moment. 213 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 2: Wow, God, that I love that ton of phrase. To 214 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 2: be in the wake of someone. 215 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 3: She's a force of nature, you know, and I'm kind 216 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 3: of a force of nature too, but she's really a 217 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:45,680 Speaker 3: force of lature in the best possible way. 218 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 1: Will you, because it's so funny. 219 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:51,200 Speaker 2: I use that lyric in a song with the Ira 220 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 2: not smiling in somebody's wake, and it was in reference 221 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 2: to the notion of being in a relationship with someone 222 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 2: and you're just that kind of following to steps behind, 223 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 2: smiling in the weight that they leave. I love the 224 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 2: idea of being in the positive that you're drafting behind 225 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 2: someone's energy and joy and more. 226 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 3: Drafting tour, as you would say at drafting exactly, and 227 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 3: drafting in the way is another good one too. That's 228 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 3: a beautiful image too, unless, of course, you feel like 229 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 3: you're being dragged through it and no one's paying attention 230 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 3: to you. 231 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 2: Well, that's exactly it. My son told me a terrible 232 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 2: joke the other day that sort of pertained to this. 233 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:31,720 Speaker 2: He went waterboarding in Guantanamo Bay, sounds really fun if 234 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 2: you don't know what either of those things are. 235 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 1: And quite good, isn't it. 236 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 2: That's quite good. It's quite a good one. But I 237 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 2: was just thinking about being dragged. I'm always using boat 238 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 2: analogies and being dragged behind boats or in the water 239 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 2: or something, and how it can go from being super 240 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:51,320 Speaker 2: positive to super negative. Yeah, but in the same way 241 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:53,559 Speaker 2: that someone's energy can do that to us. What is 242 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 2: it about your friend that was joyful to be in 243 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 2: her experience, to be in her wake? 244 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:03,200 Speaker 3: She us one hundred percent. She has the knowing that 245 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 3: the world is good and kind and wants the best 246 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 3: for everybody. She just knows this inherently. 247 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:12,320 Speaker 1: Do you think that's true? Do you agree with that? 248 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:13,680 Speaker 1: Or do you want to believe that? 249 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:16,440 Speaker 3: I want to believe that to I think everything's perception 250 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 3: and I don't have that. And when I'm with her, 251 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:22,679 Speaker 3: I do or I stand back and go oh wow. 252 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 3: Like she'll see someone upset in a restaurant. There was 253 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 3: a girl in a restaurant who was at her computer 254 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,320 Speaker 3: and her face went into her hands and she started 255 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:33,440 Speaker 3: to cry, and Laura was up. She went over there 256 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 3: and she's you know, I'm like, no, let the girl 257 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 3: break down and you know, and let her have her 258 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 3: own moment, and I don't want to get involved that 259 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:42,960 Speaker 3: kind of a thing. And Laura's on her haunches talking 260 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 3: to her and pointing into her face, but in a beautiful, caring, 261 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 3: compassionate way, and within like five minutes, the girl is laughing. 262 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 3: And her computer crashed and she was on her way 263 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 3: to a job interview and she needed her computer. So 264 00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 3: she was very upset about that. And of course Laura 265 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 3: got it fit because I'm sure she got somebody to help, 266 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 3: because she's not technologically minded, so I'll bet somebody came 267 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 3: over and helped. But as I watched this whole thing, 268 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 3: I was like, you know, there's just no room in 269 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 3: her world for anybody being upset. It's just it's not 270 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 3: worth it to be upset about this stuff. And believe me, 271 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 3: Laura's not perfect. She gets upset about stuff, she gets frustrated, 272 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 3: but her base, that which she comes her operating system, 273 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 3: is the world is this adventurous place, and there are 274 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 3: these wonderful people, and ultimately we are all for one 275 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 3: and one for all. And now she's a pisces. So 276 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 3: every once in a while she finds out maybe that's 277 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:44,520 Speaker 3: not true, and she'll collapse into tears. But for the 278 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 3: most part, it's who she is, and it's not like 279 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 3: fake or anything. It's it's kind of a beautiful thing. 280 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 2: Do you think that astrology aside, even though obviously I 281 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 2: love it. 282 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 4: I love it, dig it. 283 00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 2: We're going to get back to that. Do you think 284 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 2: the world is divined into two kinds of people? The 285 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 2: people for whom it is inherently everything's not going to 286 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 2: work out and it's fucked up, and all the good 287 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 2: stuff is really just the gravy, and you have to 288 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 2: enjoy it because really it is. We are in the 289 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 2: hell realm here, and the people who go this is 290 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 2: it's an amazing place. It is inherently kind and good, 291 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 2: and we have to accommodate the hardship with our goodness. 292 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:26,680 Speaker 3: Well, you know what, in the way you just explained it, 293 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 3: I would say, yes, I agree with you, But I 294 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:33,520 Speaker 3: also think within each person is a nuanced mix of 295 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 3: those things. I mean, there are some people in this 296 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 3: world and we know them, they're in our lives who 297 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 3: do see the world as being this awful place. I'm 298 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 3: never going to get what I want. I'm being left 299 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 3: behind but then they'll have moments like when they hang 300 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 3: out with someone like my friend, where you kind of 301 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 3: lift and that lifts for a little while. But I 302 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 3: think there can be people who are that way, you know, 303 00:15:57,400 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 3: a bigger percentage. But I do think it's kind of 304 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 3: a spec I know that I live within a spectrum 305 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 3: of it, and I would say that I'm probably more 306 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 3: towards the more positive side of that binary, more towards 307 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 3: seeing the world as being positive, except when I'm in 308 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 3: New York. 309 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 4: I have a hard time in New York. 310 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 2: That's really funny that our binary nature would just be 311 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 2: completely fucked by New York. 312 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:23,359 Speaker 4: Yeah, totally. 313 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 1: Place is just completely it will either. 314 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 2: And yet there are people who would argue that it 315 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 2: is the greatest city on the earth and you don't 316 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 2: want to live anywhere else and it is extraordinary and 317 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 2: that's funny. 318 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, well that way, you know, I would say, from 319 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 3: like twenty ten to twenty twenty, I felt that way 320 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 3: that New York was the greatest city in the world. 321 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 3: I went there three or four times a year. I 322 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:47,480 Speaker 3: loved it. And I also had a very good friend 323 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 3: who I just adored, who has now passed away. 324 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 4: So I'm really. 325 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 3: Feeling the absence of her in New York. But the 326 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 3: minute I would fly in, I mean there was such 327 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 3: a bounce to my step. I would we go to 328 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 3: the same restaurant and we'd have dinner and would sit 329 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 3: there for like six hours, laughing and screeching. So she 330 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:05,959 Speaker 3: was New York for me. And now she's gone, and 331 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:08,879 Speaker 3: New York has kind of turned too since the pandemic. 332 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 1: It's it's kind of it's a very different place. 333 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:13,199 Speaker 4: I agree, yeah, although I. 334 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 2: Got to say the other day, I was there because 335 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 2: my mother and aw lives there and I was staying 336 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:19,920 Speaker 2: with her on the Upper East Side, and I went 337 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:22,639 Speaker 2: to a salon to get my hair done and I 338 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 2: was walking out of the building and fran Leebowitz was 339 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 2: walking out of the building at the same time, and 340 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:31,680 Speaker 2: it was just one of the and I was like, hey, Frian, 341 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:35,399 Speaker 2: and she immediately like I was just someone who was 342 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:37,879 Speaker 2: going to bug her, And then she saw it was me. 343 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 2: And I've known her for many, many, many many years, 344 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 2: not well, but to say hello to and she was like, oh, hey, 345 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:48,359 Speaker 2: a many watch now and now we're walking down Park 346 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 2: Avenue together and I'm like, do you mind if I 347 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:52,159 Speaker 2: walk with you? And she's like, what I mind, And 348 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 2: then we suddenly have this conversation about New York conservation 349 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:01,159 Speaker 2: and architectural edicts and this and that, and she's smoking 350 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 2: a cigarette and walking back Avenue and. 351 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:04,639 Speaker 1: It's just the most New Yorkkee. 352 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 2: I'm like, there's got to be a hidden camera someone 353 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 2: dorm and a waving at her HI brand and people 354 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 2: going by recognizing her. She is this extraordinary character. But 355 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 2: it was New York has movie moments, it does, and. 356 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:17,200 Speaker 4: That's one of them. 357 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:19,200 Speaker 3: For sure. The Upper East Side is a lovely place 358 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 3: to be too. You know, tourism is it hasn't changed. 359 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:29,360 Speaker 1: It hasn't changed. And the tourist us now like Disneyland, Yeah, exactly. 360 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:30,679 Speaker 3: And then I was in Soho. 361 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:33,159 Speaker 2: I was it was, she can't be in Soho anymore. 362 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:35,120 Speaker 2: I used to live there. You can't be there anymore. 363 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 2: It's it's can't walk down the street. It's so crouded 364 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:42,240 Speaker 2: you can't walk. And many they're dead, they're like eyes 365 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:44,640 Speaker 2: are dead. A lot of them are young, and as 366 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:47,040 Speaker 2: they're walking around their phones. And I was in Starbucks 367 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 2: and there was a line out the door and everybody 368 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:52,080 Speaker 2: in line was. 369 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 3: Kind of young, and they were all on their phones, 370 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:57,879 Speaker 3: and then there was a deadness. I almost started screaming, like, 371 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:01,160 Speaker 3: wake up. 372 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's the moment. That's the Peter Finch moment. 373 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:08,800 Speaker 2: Now it's study exactly mad as hell, and I'm not 374 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 2: going to take it anymore. 375 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:10,480 Speaker 1: It's now wake. 376 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:15,399 Speaker 3: Up, beautiful city. Look at these old buildings. I know 377 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:17,199 Speaker 3: I'm not like an old lady, but I had a 378 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 3: really hard time there it this last time. 379 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 1: Well, let's move on from mel okay. 380 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 3: Let's move on to something nice. I started so nice, 381 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 3: so positive. 382 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 1: By the way, That's how I start every day. 383 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 2: And it's a it's a slow and always foreseen slump, 384 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:33,360 Speaker 2: slump yum into mine. 385 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 1: What would be your life? 386 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 4: Last meal? A ribbi from Luckies? 387 00:19:58,160 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 3: Have you been to lucky? 388 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 2: It's just ate the I just two nights ago and 389 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 2: it was in I didn't know that it was outside 390 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 2: of Raouls in New York. It was the best peppercorn 391 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:15,720 Speaker 2: steak I have ever had. And I eat I'm essentially 392 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:17,919 Speaker 2: I don't really eat meat. I don't eat I mean, 393 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 2: I can't say I'm a vegetarian, because once a year 394 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:22,440 Speaker 2: I will eat a piece of meat and it will 395 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 2: be usually from rowls. But it was from Lucky, Isn't 396 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 2: It was the greatest thing I've. 397 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 3: Even I like the Romanian steak there, that's my favorite. 398 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 1: What's a Romainan? 399 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 3: I would have that The Romanian steak is it's not 400 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 3: too big, but it's the most flavorful, tender rib meat 401 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:41,159 Speaker 3: and it's some kind of garlic oil sauce that is 402 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 3: just I guess it's Romanian, but it's just delicate and 403 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 3: wonderful and I just love it. 404 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 4: No, no, medium rare. 405 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 1: Hmm, I don't know that I could go medium rare. 406 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:53,680 Speaker 1: I think I could go medium. 407 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:56,240 Speaker 3: Well, and there you might even want to go medium well, 408 00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 3: because you know it's still they're. 409 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:02,720 Speaker 1: Just washing that they're not Yeah, they'd have it. 410 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:08,200 Speaker 3: Yeah right, right, Yeah, that's cold blue center, right, that's 411 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 3: cold in the center. 412 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:12,880 Speaker 2: And then then it's signon, so it goes blue sign then, 413 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:16,880 Speaker 2: which I suppose is bloody, and then it's rare, and 414 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,359 Speaker 2: then they don't listen to you if you say anything. 415 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:21,680 Speaker 4: We vegans with this talk. 416 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:27,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, exactly. Everybody everybody's gone, everybody's gone. This just 417 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:35,119 Speaker 1: you in there right in your life? 418 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,680 Speaker 2: Can you tell me about something that has grown out 419 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:39,920 Speaker 2: of a personal disaster? 420 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:41,399 Speaker 4: Oh, God. 421 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:45,040 Speaker 3: Yes, I'm a little reluctant to say it because it 422 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 3: involves another person, but yeah, I was married for about 423 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 3: a year and a half. It was disastrous. Yeah, and 424 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 3: I emerged from it almost I had like a spiritual 425 00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:00,200 Speaker 3: awaken when I emerged from it. So much emotional stuff 426 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:04,680 Speaker 3: that was wrapped up into this really tight, condensed experience 427 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:07,160 Speaker 3: that I had been carrying with me all my life 428 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:09,880 Speaker 3: and it kind of all got thrown at this one 429 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:17,120 Speaker 3: person relationship experience and when it popped, all of that stuff, 430 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:21,640 Speaker 3: all of that emotional stuff fell away, so much of 431 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:27,719 Speaker 3: my over identifying with being someone who is incapable of 432 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 3: living life and maybe this person will carry me along 433 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,160 Speaker 3: in their way and I will do life better. Like, oh, 434 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 3: that's just one thing that was thrown into this, But 435 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:42,119 Speaker 3: a lot of it was self denial. Self Yeah. I 436 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:44,359 Speaker 3: don't even know the words for it. I just can't 437 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 3: even find the words. But it was this hot ball 438 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 3: of need ooh and it exploded and it went away forever, 439 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 3: I mean forever. 440 00:22:55,080 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 2: You know, that's really amazing that you have quite definitive experience. 441 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:06,440 Speaker 2: It seems to me that you do learn from your 442 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:09,639 Speaker 2: experiences or the lessons that you are presented with, like, 443 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 2: that's that kind of completion is I mean, I found 444 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 2: that quite rare. 445 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 3: What doesn't happen all the time, But boy am I 446 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 3: grateful when they do signify? 447 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, never underestimate the things that we carry, right, 448 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:24,400 Speaker 2: and that when we are if we are lucky enough 449 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:28,440 Speaker 2: to finally be unburdened of some of those things, it's 450 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:32,639 Speaker 2: more often than not under really difficult circumstances that we 451 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:36,359 Speaker 2: might call this is a shitty, terrible, awful thing that happened. 452 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 2: And yet the other side of that is this profound 453 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 2: letting go. But we wouldn't necessarily choose it, Like, who 454 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,080 Speaker 2: knows if you'd known ahead of time that it was 455 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 2: going to be a torturous relationship, would. 456 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 4: You have done? 457 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 3: Even though I'm really glad what happened, sometimes I go 458 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 3: back in my mind and try to find the point 459 00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:58,040 Speaker 3: where I could have walked away. 460 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:01,280 Speaker 1: Oh I do that all It's a waste. 461 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 3: It is a totally in the moment, I'm kind of 462 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:06,439 Speaker 3: excited about it. Yeah, like, oh, there that was the 463 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 3: point I should have just booked it. 464 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:12,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so funny though, that whole you know, I've 465 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:16,440 Speaker 2: had an interesting relationship with the notion of forgiveness, because 466 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:21,479 Speaker 2: I really genuinely think being encouraged to forgive isn't always 467 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 2: the right thing to do. I think you have to arrive, yes, 468 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 2: but sovereignly, independently, completely in the moment. The idea of 469 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:35,439 Speaker 2: it being an immediate response that's going to make you 470 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:37,719 Speaker 2: feel better, it's like telling someone to calm down when 471 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 2: they're really angry. 472 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 1: It just won't do well. 473 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 3: It's a cultural thing, Judeo Christian cultural conditioning that says 474 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,360 Speaker 3: that's exactly want to just forgive them and then and 475 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 3: so you forgive too fast before you're anywhere near I 476 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 3: mean forgive means forgetting anyway. You have to be ready 477 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:58,640 Speaker 3: to let it go. And it's a process that happens organically. 478 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,679 Speaker 3: It's not a decision we make. Because we make that 479 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 3: decision from our smallest self, the part of our self 480 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:08,200 Speaker 3: that is still injured, that still feels like we were 481 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,879 Speaker 3: done wrong. You can't forgive from that place. It doesn't 482 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:13,720 Speaker 3: happen no at all. 483 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:16,120 Speaker 1: And I think also allowing it to be. 484 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:20,919 Speaker 2: A process that doesn't look like one day I felt 485 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 2: like I was resentful and couldn't forgive them, and the 486 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:27,160 Speaker 2: next day I could it's really interesting how it's a spectrum. Yeah, 487 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 2: I think I will probably be working forever on this 488 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:36,119 Speaker 2: one particular relationship that I think forgiveness is a huge 489 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:40,560 Speaker 2: part of it. But it's fascinating just allowing that to 490 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:44,000 Speaker 2: be true and not thinking you have to radically do 491 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 2: something and immediately feel better about it. I think that's 492 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:49,919 Speaker 2: a huge misnoment and I definitely got the wrong end 493 00:25:49,920 --> 00:26:04,440 Speaker 2: of the stick around that for a while. What relationship, 494 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,120 Speaker 2: real or fictionalized, defines love. 495 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:11,119 Speaker 4: Fear, say, a room of one zone. 496 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:16,120 Speaker 3: But she killed herself, But that's okay, by the way, 497 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 3: that's a version of love. It is, it is. 498 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:19,239 Speaker 4: It is. 499 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:23,680 Speaker 2: Weirdly, Virginia Wolf killing herself was an expression of of 500 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 2: love because she I don't know. 501 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 1: That's hard to qualify, but I feel like for her 502 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 1: it was. 503 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:31,320 Speaker 3: I do too, and I think that Nicole Kidman did 504 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:33,080 Speaker 3: a very good job of it in the movie. 505 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:38,600 Speaker 2: I did beyond her nose prosthetics, I don't know. 506 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,359 Speaker 3: I guess I forgave that that was I guess I didn't. 507 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:42,200 Speaker 3: I didn't even forgive. 508 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 4: She's so brilliant. Yeah, she's brilliant. 509 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 1: She's just brilliant. But the nose was a bit warm. 510 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,439 Speaker 2: It's a bit distracting, but it shows how good of 511 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:52,000 Speaker 2: an actor she. 512 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 1: I think that it didn't matter. 513 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 4: She acted past it. 514 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 1: She acted past her eyes. That should be a down. 515 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,960 Speaker 3: Give us both credit for that. Oh yes, best defines 516 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 3: love or a relationship, relationship and also real or fictionalized 517 00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:09,399 Speaker 3: that could be in a poem or in a book. 518 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:11,879 Speaker 3: Oh how about? And I forget who said this? I 519 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 3: think it was Khalil Joe Brown. Let the winds of 520 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 3: heaven dance between you and I have have that with 521 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:23,360 Speaker 3: my beautiful partner, wife's spouse. 522 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:28,119 Speaker 2: Do you, yes, let the winds of heaven dance between you? Okay, 523 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:32,360 Speaker 2: practically because that is a really beautiful and etheric idea. 524 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:37,440 Speaker 2: How does one do that on a rainy Wednesday in November? 525 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:38,960 Speaker 1: How do we keep that? 526 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:41,680 Speaker 2: How do we do that when life isn't as poetic 527 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:42,359 Speaker 2: as it sounds? 528 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 4: Well, it sounds kind of poetic to me, I know. 529 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 3: I think what it's talking about is now falling into 530 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:55,159 Speaker 3: each other where you lose yourself so you're deeply, deeply 531 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 3: in love. And there's that do you know that painting 532 00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:01,360 Speaker 3: where he's bringing his wife flowers and he's flying Basically 533 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:05,320 Speaker 3: he's levitating. Yeah, he's soofering. Yeah, but he's in his 534 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 3: studio and he's doing his thing, and yet he's still very, 535 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:15,359 Speaker 3: very in love. I've never been tempted to have that 536 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,880 Speaker 3: kind of codependent relationship. So for me, it's always been 537 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,399 Speaker 3: getting into relationships and going to stay back, let the 538 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:26,240 Speaker 3: winds of heaven dance between us. But I have found 539 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:28,399 Speaker 3: they're people who are like that. 540 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 2: It's gonna say one thing, you're super hot, but let 541 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:32,159 Speaker 2: the winds of having Dan. 542 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:39,240 Speaker 3: I'm going to be in my art studio thinking about you. 543 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 3: In fact, I'm gonna be levitating. I'm gonna be hovering. 544 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 3: But don't knock on my door except to bring the flowers, 545 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 3: which she's doing. Actually she's levitating. Oop, there's my doorbell. 546 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 1: You need to get it. 547 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 3: You can't hold on our dog groomers stop by to 548 00:28:55,440 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 3: bring me some peach rum jam What do you mean 549 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 3: that's delicious? 550 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:08,880 Speaker 1: Go and taste it, peach rum jama. Then it smells 551 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 1: super rum. 552 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,280 Speaker 3: It's a little you know, I'm sober. I could get 553 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 3: drug from this. 554 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 1: Maybe they're scraping on your turst. 555 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 2: Okay, wait, I'm now really thinking about the winds of 556 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 2: having danced between the two things. First of all, my 557 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 2: boyfriend really early on we're six years in now, he 558 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 2: said that our relationships, and I think this is the robot. 559 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 1: Version of the Khalil Gibran. 560 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 2: It's a then diagram that we are both those circles 561 00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 2: and we have that space in the middle where we 562 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 2: cross over. But you know, ninety percent is us ourselves, 563 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 2: and then there's the area that we cross over. And 564 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 2: you must never think that it should be more than 565 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 2: or more than that is healthy. I think you're absolutely right. 566 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,120 Speaker 2: I have been tempted into super codependent relationships and like 567 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:00,440 Speaker 2: nothing good lies down, well, you. 568 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 3: Lose yourself ultimately, you you you invest your happiness into 569 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:09,360 Speaker 3: someone else, and you know another person can't take that. 570 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 1: Who's that? 571 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 3: Mildred? 572 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 1: Who's there? Mildred? Mildred coming on? Cookie, Mildred on cookie 573 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,880 Speaker 1: over here? You want some peach? Mildred? Let me see? 574 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:21,160 Speaker 3: Oh are you right there? 575 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:21,600 Speaker 4: See? 576 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 3: What are you doing? She is a Belgian shepherd. 577 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:30,320 Speaker 2: Oh look she's she's. 578 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,640 Speaker 3: Trying to look all sexy. So I'll rubber belly. It's enticing. 579 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,960 Speaker 3: But I'm on a podcast with milk Driver. 580 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:38,480 Speaker 4: Love. 581 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 2: What about the living next door to each other, like 582 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 2: you know, Helen the bottom cart and Timber and live 583 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:45,680 Speaker 2: next door to each other with a connecting tunnel. 584 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 1: I think it's the most brilliant. 585 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:51,200 Speaker 3: Modern and brilliant, and it's wonderful and it's great for. 586 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:52,960 Speaker 1: The kids everyone has. 587 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:54,720 Speaker 3: You know, if I had, it's really fun. 588 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 1: I would have a slide. 589 00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 3: To connect them. Yeah, you know, Queen Christina. Though Greta 590 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:02,400 Speaker 3: Garbaum would be and I love Greta Garbo. She's talking 591 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,960 Speaker 3: to her man servant and she said, I would love 592 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,040 Speaker 3: to have a man as a lover, but I should 593 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 3: like for him to live next door. 594 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 2: That is essentially well, I believe. I don't believe in 595 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 2: sharing bathroom. I think you share a bed intentionally. But 596 00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,600 Speaker 2: I like sleeping into a sort of sacred and singular. 597 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,480 Speaker 2: But I know that it's it's not easy. 598 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,600 Speaker 3: I could never do that. And now let me give 599 00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:31,400 Speaker 3: some support and some validation. I don't know if they 600 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 3: need it, but like I'll hear about relationships where people 601 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:37,840 Speaker 3: just can't get enough of each other, you know, they 602 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 3: just can't. My parents they loved each other so much. 603 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 3: My father would go away for a weekend to do something, 604 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:48,400 Speaker 3: and God, when he would come home they'd be like, oh, 605 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 3: I missed you so much. My dad did summer school 606 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 3: when we were growing up, and we grew up on 607 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 3: the South side of Chicago, and he went to the 608 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 3: University of Wisconsin, and we found the love letters between them. 609 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,680 Speaker 3: He was gone like four weeks, and you know, five 610 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 3: o'clock comes around every day and I think of you 611 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 3: and I get into bed and I miss you so much, 612 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 3: and oh, it's just so beautiful. 613 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:13,080 Speaker 1: It's really sweet. 614 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,200 Speaker 2: I mean, I really do think, like, like whatever blows 615 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:20,760 Speaker 2: your hair, like, is it just being entwined and that's 616 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:24,800 Speaker 2: your reality or is it more ostensibly aloof But your 617 00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:29,040 Speaker 2: intimacy is really intimate because you choose it, and it's 618 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,280 Speaker 2: it's as long as a choice. 619 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,720 Speaker 3: And it suits who you are. You know, it's not 620 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 3: coming from fear. It's not coming from fear of intimacy, 621 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:40,040 Speaker 3: but it's it suits who you exactly. One of the 622 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:41,959 Speaker 3: things I've learned over the years is, I'm sure you 623 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:43,640 Speaker 3: have too, is what suits me? 624 00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 2: I think it's a very intrepid and wonderful exploration to 625 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:49,400 Speaker 2: figure out what suits. 626 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:51,040 Speaker 3: One and have no shame around it. 627 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 2: You know, that's a good point to have no shame 628 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 2: and not be worried about identifying it to other people, 629 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 2: right right, And thank you so much for sharing all 630 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:02,840 Speaker 2: your beautiful insight. 631 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:04,600 Speaker 1: It's so lovely. 632 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:09,480 Speaker 2: I love hearing all the expansive things that you think. 633 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 1: Thank you so. 634 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,080 Speaker 4: Much and enjoy well. 635 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:16,080 Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, thank you. 636 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:17,080 Speaker 4: You're welcome. You're welcome. 637 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,720 Speaker 1: Mini Questions is hosted and written. 638 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 2: By Me Mini Driver, Executive produced by Me and Aaron Kaufman, 639 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:31,160 Speaker 2: with production support from Jennifer Bassett, Zoe Denkler, and Ali Perry. 640 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:35,520 Speaker 2: The theme music is also by Me and additional music 641 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:40,479 Speaker 2: by Aaron Kaufman. Special thanks to Jim Nikolay Addison, O'Day, 642 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 2: Henry Driver, Lisa Castella, Anick oppenheim A, Nick Muller and 643 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:51,080 Speaker 2: Annette wolf A, w kPr, Will Pearson, Nicki Etoor, Morgan 644 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 2: Levoy and Mangesh had Tiggadore