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Speaker 1: It's time to get inside the Giants hut. Let's Giants

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Speaker 1: on the Giants. Give me some part of the Giants

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Speaker 1: podcast network. Let's roll.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to another Giants on the podcast, brought to you

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Speaker 2: by citizens Official Bank of the Giants, John Schmolke, Fall Patino,

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Speaker 2: joined by I think math Queen is what.

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Speaker 1: We decided on the last time. That's what it was. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Cynthia Frielan from NFL Network.

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Speaker 2: She'll be part of NFL Network's coverage to the Combine

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Speaker 2: all weekend long.

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Speaker 1: Cynthia, how are you?

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Speaker 3: I'm great, Thank you? How are you doing? So?

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Speaker 2: We did a long huddle last year for the folks

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Speaker 2: that haven't watched it go back. It was like forty

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Speaker 2: five minutes on simply how she watches offensive lineman and

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Speaker 2: how much their posteriors raise off the ground when they

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Speaker 2: start to hurry your dash yep. So you had a

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Speaker 2: chance to watch out these offensive linemen. Who are some

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Speaker 2: of the guys that really meet your metrics well, that

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Speaker 2: you expect are going to test really well and then

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Speaker 2: perform very well based on your specific criteria.

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Speaker 3: This is a very light offensive line.

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Speaker 1: Class, right as in like heavy like weights.

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Speaker 3: No or not a lot of Okay, not a lot

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Speaker 3: of them, especially attack correct like Will Campbell, he's from LSU.

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Speaker 1: That's the one you like him other than that old.

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Speaker 3: I see their resumes. Here's the interesting part is the

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Speaker 3: unintended consequence of the transfer portal is now you see

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Speaker 3: these quarterbacks moving around, and you see defenses being weird

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Speaker 3: because they're they're only running like fewer plays like it's

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Speaker 3: much lighter like playbook wise than you see the offensive line.

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Speaker 3: Find me a pulling guard. I'll wait, I'll be here

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Speaker 3: all day. Like. So, one of the unintended consequences of

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Speaker 3: all these people moving is the fact that you really

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Speaker 3: don't have a lot of tape on resumes of offensive

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Speaker 3: linemen doing more advanced stuff.

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Speaker 4: All right, I'm going to ask you then flat out

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Speaker 4: about the one guy who since the Senior Bowl, Zabel

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Speaker 4: out of North Dakota State, who has got a lot

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Speaker 4: of people really excited, so that maybe he's even a

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Speaker 4: late first rounder.

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Speaker 3: Well, he probably will be during dude to scarcity because

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Speaker 3: there's not there, there's not a lot of like the

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Speaker 3: scarcity factor will drive he should Actually I would imagine

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Speaker 3: he goes in the first round because they're on a

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Speaker 3: lot of replace like you want to get the guy

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Speaker 3: you can't wait there, we're not like the scarcity is there.

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Speaker 4: All his numbers at least palatable.

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Speaker 3: They are the problem that even he has. So the

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Speaker 3: level of competition is very hard to judge when you

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Speaker 3: don't play in right now the Big ten or the

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Speaker 3: SEC just difficult. And his numbers are all great, but

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Speaker 3: the resume for every one of these other guys is incomplete.

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Speaker 3: They haven't seen certain things that they would be expected

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Speaker 3: to see day one in the NFL. They have an experience,

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Speaker 3: but that doesn't mean they can't. It just means that

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Speaker 3: they haven't. Right, So there, It just makes it more

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Speaker 3: of a projection than in the past.

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Speaker 2: Does your criteria get reduced when you're talking guard instead

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Speaker 2: of tackle because they have to move less and there's

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Speaker 2: much less space. And if so, anybody that you like

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Speaker 2: as qualifiers as guard on day two that you know

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Speaker 2: the giants are looking for a white guard.

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Speaker 1: So that's a spot where they're kind of some interesting.

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Speaker 3: You don't look very heaven Zeitler.

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Speaker 1: We have already by the way they exact that I

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Speaker 1: don't care. It's it's still good.

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Speaker 3: I mean, there aren't a lot of options Trey Smith.

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Speaker 3: I mean, he's the best one, but that's gonna be.

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Speaker 4: You got to break shruck.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: So so your confidence level in this offensive line draft

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Speaker 2: group is not.

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Speaker 3: I just don't. My problem is is now we're seeing

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Speaker 3: we need to be able to use the a gap

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Speaker 3: right next to on either side of the center. You

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Speaker 3: need to be able to run there. The techniques for

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Speaker 3: doing that we don't see in college right now they

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Speaker 3: run to the outside.

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Speaker 1: So it's all zone stuff, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So it's not to say again, it's not to

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Speaker 3: say that they can't. They just haven't.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I'm going to follow up then, and so let's

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Speaker 2: talk up into a wider conversation because I'm with you.

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Speaker 2: As defenders shrink linebackers are two hundred and twenty pounds.

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Speaker 1: Safeties are two hundred and ten pounds, two hundred and

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Speaker 1: five pounds.

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Speaker 2: I feel like gap counter duo that's what works now.

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Speaker 2: This outside zone stuff with all the speed on defenses

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Speaker 2: is not what it used to be.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that's now really making it comeback?

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Speaker 2: We were gonna set a full back popping up more

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Speaker 2: now meting.

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Speaker 3: Into the fullbacks. I love fullbacks. That's like my one

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Speaker 3: of my favorite plays in all the football like, like

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Speaker 3: I love a good fallback, but I do think so

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Speaker 3: I think it's all like cycles, and we're in this

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Speaker 3: cycle now where I mean, like, can you imagine ten

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Speaker 3: years ago being like, hey, we're going to take zack

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Speaker 3: On off the line and make him an off ball

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Speaker 3: linebacker and it's going to be better for us. Can

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Speaker 3: you imagine that? I mean, that's what the Eagles did.

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Speaker 3: So that wouldn't have happened ten years ago. It just wouldn't.

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Speaker 3: You wouldn't that. You would have never done that. It

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Speaker 3: would have been a strange strategy and you would have

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Speaker 3: gotten run all over. So passed all over? Like okay,

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Speaker 3: Like so it's everything's a cycle. Everything's a cycle.

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Speaker 1: Huddle up, get in here. If you're lined up here,

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Speaker 1: you gotta go over the middle with at the score, right,

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Speaker 1: How do we make that happen?

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Speaker 4: I don't know. Bud Citizen does makes sense of your

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Speaker 4: money with citizens Official Bank of Eli Manning. Okay, so

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Speaker 4: you've already told us that the offensive line doesn't excite you,

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Speaker 4: But let me let me throw.

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Speaker 1: This at excites me.

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Speaker 3: It's just more of a projection. Okay, feel less certain

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Speaker 3: about it?

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Speaker 4: Tight ends often the offensive line room in line blocking

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Speaker 4: tight ends. Do you do metrics on those deals, because

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Speaker 4: there are a handful of really good blockers here, including Lachey,

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Speaker 4: whose dad played offensive line in the NFL. Give me

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Speaker 4: a take on those.

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Speaker 3: So Penn State, I love him. He's great in line.

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Speaker 3: And what you like to do is disguise this. So

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Speaker 3: what you want to see is do are their tendencies?

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Speaker 3: Shane Steichen, he has a great When he was at

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Speaker 3: the Eagles, he had a great with Dallas Goddard in

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Speaker 3: line fifty to fifty it was like forty nine fifty

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Speaker 3: one percent if they were running or if they were passing.

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Speaker 3: That's what you want, right, you want to see something

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Speaker 3: like that. Who can you do it with? To me,

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Speaker 3: Michigan or Penn State? Okay, I'm still in the phase

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Speaker 3: where we say their school because a guy have learned

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Speaker 3: that's what scouts do, and I'm trying to be more

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Speaker 3: of a scout embodying a scout.

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Speaker 1: A big ten run the football, no question about it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah they did, and so do you think then NFL

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Speaker 2: teams are going to try to, I don't know, jump

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Speaker 2: on the bandwagon of the trend of running the Football's

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Speaker 2: getting you more epa than it used to running the ball,

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Speaker 2: or is it still that has to come off what

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Speaker 2: the quarterback can do for you, because I think you know,

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Speaker 2: people say, oh Saquon Derek Henry, Yeah, well that's great,

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Speaker 2: but Saquon joined the great offensive line Jayalen Hurts and

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Speaker 2: Dallas Goddard and AJ Brown and Derek Henry's awesome, but

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Speaker 2: always one thet more Jackson that probably helps too.

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Speaker 1: So how do you do that with where the running

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Speaker 1: back position is now?

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Speaker 2: Or maybe it's not where it was, but I don't

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Speaker 2: know if it's elevated higher.

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Speaker 3: Than We need to talk more about Tyrone trades because

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Speaker 3: I really left him Okay, he's great. Well, I think

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Speaker 3: he's great. I just in general, I think nationally we

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Speaker 3: need to talk more about him. He had a really

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Speaker 3: nice season. It maybe got overshadowed by other stuff, but

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Speaker 3: he was great. So I was that was that was

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Speaker 3: a good pick. But if you're looking in general, the

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Speaker 3: expected number of yards that any running back is supposed

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Speaker 3: to get when they have their hand on the ball

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Speaker 3: last season was the highest we've seen in a really

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Speaker 3: long time, at four point two yards. And part of

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Speaker 3: that is also because the quarterback on scrambles or design runs.

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Speaker 3: Whenever he took off and ran it was six yards.

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Speaker 3: So part of that is having a mobile quarterback. If

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Speaker 3: you have a pocket passing quarterback, it's not gonna be

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Speaker 3: the same thing. So ultimately, unless you have a great pocket,

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Speaker 3: then those different than Jared Goffick whatever. But like he's

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Speaker 3: the pocket back, that's a little different. But in general,

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Speaker 3: the emergence of like guys who can throw run and

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Speaker 3: throw on the run, not throw while moving. I'm talking

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Speaker 3: about like eight miles an hour faster, we are more

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Speaker 3: more of those in the league than ever before. So

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Speaker 3: that helps with your running back and it helps you

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Speaker 3: create a lot of deception and it helps the defense

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Speaker 3: be like, I don't know what you're gonna do. So

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Speaker 3: that's part of that as well. So it depends on

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Speaker 3: It really just depends on who you have and what

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Speaker 3: the identity of your team is and who you're going

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Speaker 3: to be while doing that.

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Speaker 2: John Soda Podcast is brought to you by Citizens Official

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Speaker 2: Banking the Giants and gaining these celebrations your everyday financial needs.

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Speaker 4: Okay, I'm gonna go running back here because the Giants

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Speaker 4: want to pair somebody with Tyrone Tracy.

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Speaker 1: Yep.

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Speaker 4: I prefer to get a real banger to pair with Tracy.

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Speaker 4: And we know that this is a deep draft for

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Speaker 4: running backs, especially later on.

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Speaker 1: That's right, Okay.

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Speaker 4: Is there someone whose numbers stick out to you that

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Speaker 4: people aren't talking about that You're like, I got my

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Speaker 4: eye on this guy maybe third day, and he's gonna

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Speaker 4: be really good.

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Speaker 3: I will reserve my judgment on that. I'll come back

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Speaker 3: after this week and tell you that because I when

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Speaker 3: I'm watching the film, the first time I have to

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Speaker 3: de bias myself. Is that a word unbiased myself? Get

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Speaker 3: rid of my bias, because right now it's very hard

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Speaker 3: to watch people who aren't playing in the Big ten

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Speaker 3: or the SEC. This is the first time this has

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Speaker 3: ever been like this so pronounced for me, obviously because of.

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Speaker 1: The whatever to re alignment. Of course, Yeah, I.

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Speaker 3: Don't know how to rate who they're playing against when

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Speaker 3: they're not in those two.

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Speaker 1: Conferences, and that matters that much to you for.

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Speaker 3: Running backs yet, because running backs pass rushers, some types

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Speaker 3: of wide receivers, people who day one are expected to

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Speaker 3: know what they're doing in country if they've never seen

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Speaker 3: man defense. I don't know, how.

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Speaker 2: Do you have concerns about Ashton Gent, for example, because

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Speaker 2: of his competition In.

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Speaker 3: My opinion, yes, I maybe not not to say he's

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Speaker 3: not worth the first running back place, but I don't

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Speaker 3: think it's he's not as fully his resume is not

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Speaker 3: as fully stacked for me as even it would have

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Speaker 3: been in the past years when I had some sort

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Speaker 3: of historical reference point about all of these new competitors,

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Speaker 3: Like this is a wild this is a wild West

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Speaker 3: of scouting in my opinion, because all these people moving,

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Speaker 3: all these changes for wide receivers and certain running backs

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Speaker 3: and certain certain wide receivers, running backs and pass rushers.

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Speaker 3: It's good because now you see what they look like

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Speaker 3: in a lot of different and a lot of different systems.

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Speaker 3: Maybe or or maybe the competition, But the defenders move

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Speaker 3: all moving around. I don't know what they're looking.

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Speaker 4: At college free agency. It's crazy.

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Speaker 3: They need to be treated like adults. Sign a contract.

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Speaker 3: I know I'm getting political, I guess, but like, like,

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Speaker 3: if you're taking that much money, sign a contract.

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Speaker 1: For a certain period of Yeah, you're an adult.

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Speaker 3: If I'm an adult, I like make a commitment. If

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Speaker 3: I want to change, then there's I break my contract.

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Speaker 3: But it's different. It should be. It shouldn't be what

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Speaker 3: it was before. It was way too restricted before. But

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Speaker 3: I don't know. Now we've gone way too I don't.

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Speaker 1: Know that'd be happy medium, right, I'm with you.

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Speaker 4: Right. If you want to know how to manage two

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Speaker 4: minutes of crunch time football, I'm your Matt.

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Speaker 1: But if you're wondering about a long term financial plan,

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Speaker 1: you should talk to Citizens. Hey, I can also talk

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Speaker 1: long care. I'd like to learn about amiliar routine. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I knew I could help make sense of your money

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Speaker 1: with Citizens.

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Speaker 2: All right. Final question. We talked about how the running

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Speaker 2: game has changed and shifted. How do you see the

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Speaker 2: passing game changing and shifting? The National Football League gets

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Speaker 2: much harder to make plays over the top and get

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Speaker 2: those explosives of the way defenses are playing, but they

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Speaker 2: remain the most important thing in offense can do to

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Speaker 2: score points and win. So how do you think offense

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Speaker 2: is going to address to so many of these too high, zoned,

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Speaker 2: heavy type of schemes that are trying to prevent those

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Speaker 2: big plays.

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Speaker 3: So quick passes to me, if you can execute so,

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Speaker 3: quick passes are not the things that same thing as

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Speaker 3: short passes. Right, quick passes happen in under two point

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Speaker 3: five seconds. Short passes just don't go very far right.

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Speaker 1: Those are checkdowns to running backs that get topped right.

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Speaker 3: Exactly right, yes, but being able to use the quick

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Speaker 3: game but long and get your slot receiver open. Slot

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Speaker 3: corners are very used to be like used in the

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Speaker 3: Pajorda inny of your slot corner, you must be old

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Speaker 3: and slow. But now it's like you need a good

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Speaker 3: slot corner.

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Speaker 2: Like if you hit your receiver in the slot in

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Speaker 2: space on a slant, yeah, that can go for a

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Speaker 2: big game exactly.

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Speaker 4: And by the way, you better be able to tackle,

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Speaker 4: because if you don't, that's a big yak exactly.

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Speaker 3: So to me, can you get your quick game long

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Speaker 3: not long intermediate? Can you get your quick game at

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Speaker 3: least ten yards in the air? Are yards?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 3: If you can do that, money.

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Speaker 4: Can we squeeze one more question? Now? Of course these quarterbacks,

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Speaker 4: everybody has their opinion based on the film and based

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Speaker 4: on some of the interviews, and of course the baggage

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Speaker 4: of the whole Sanders thing that comes along with it.

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Speaker 4: But I want to ask you about your numbers. Because

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Speaker 4: you work with numbers, you're not dealing with feelings and

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Speaker 4: all this other stuff on the outside the numbers, What

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Speaker 4: do they tell you about the physical characteristics about Ward.

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Speaker 3: And Sanders cam Ward I mocked to you guys in

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Speaker 3: my first mock draft. That was before the Super Bowl,

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Speaker 3: so now we've had rumors changing things, potential free agents, whatever,

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Speaker 3: But that was my first pick for you to me.

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Speaker 3: He has the highest floor and he has a really

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Speaker 3: nice ceiling. In large part if you look at his

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Speaker 3: pocket presence or whatever, the fact that he doesn't pump,

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Speaker 3: make extra body movements, all of it like calm, but

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Speaker 3: it doesn't give away a lot of what he's doing.

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Speaker 3: A lot of guys will like like in they or their.

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Speaker 1: Heads, like, no, he just stands still.

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Speaker 3: There's crazy and it's it's wild. But that's actually very

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Speaker 3: helpful because the defense is then what the heck is

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Speaker 3: this kid gonna do? So that's helpful. Again, they didn't

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Speaker 3: play their The level of competition was a little confusing. However,

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Speaker 3: cam has the best projection for me, should or did

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Speaker 3: not play behind a good O line one bit, and

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Speaker 3: he does have a great shiftiness and instinctual Like the

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Speaker 3: way that he can get away is great. Do I

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Speaker 3: know what that means to the next zilla.

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Speaker 1: Also playing the big twelve, which isn't known for defenses.

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Speaker 3: No, not known for defenses. And he's I believe that

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Speaker 3: Daniel Jeremiah is confirming this. He confirmed it to me.

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Speaker 3: Believe that Shador Sanders is also the only player that

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Speaker 3: we've ever seen the draft or since the drafts that

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Speaker 3: only even had one coach's whole life.

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Speaker 1: That's a good point. That's unbelievable, very very quickly. Fifteen

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Speaker 1: second answer.

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Speaker 3: I mean it's Deion Sanders, so like it's a good coach,

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Speaker 3: but like that's.

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Speaker 2: Wild from what you have seen your analysis. Matthew Stafford

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Speaker 2: stole a lot less in the tank at thirty seven.

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Speaker 3: Matthew Stafford is the reason I created a metric that's

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Speaker 3: like what happens on the down after pressure. It needs

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Speaker 3: a sex to your name. If anyone has a better

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Speaker 3: name for it, let me know. No one has been

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Speaker 3: better at him on the down after being pressured. I mean,

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Speaker 3: remember he was a lion forever and.

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Speaker 1: He got like yes, slop bird, but.

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Speaker 3: He no one has been better I know you know

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Speaker 3: a lot about that.

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Speaker 2: I do.

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Speaker 3: I watched all of it the down after being pressured,

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Speaker 3: and last year still same thing. He still has it.

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Speaker 3: He's he's not his peak of it. Still very high.

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Speaker 3: Maybe he ranks third or fourth in the league now

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Speaker 3: it is, but if you look at the course of

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Speaker 3: his career, still number one. But you know you're still

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Speaker 3: getting eighty ninety percent of him, which is pretty darn good.

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Speaker 2: Good's Giants NFL Combine coverage is presented by the Hospital

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Speaker 2: for Special Surgery, the world's number one orthopedics Choose Better,

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Speaker 2: Move Better. It just has the official hospital than the

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Speaker 2: New York Giants. That's a Giants Little Podcast, brought to

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Speaker 2: you by Citizen Cynthia.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much. We appreciate it.

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Speaker 4: So good to see you again.

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Speaker 1: Merry buddy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah,