WEBVTT - Wu-Tang v. Shaolin | From Revisionist History: The Staten Island Problem 0:00:15.476 --> 0:00:15.956 Pushkin. 0:00:18.276 --> 0:00:20.596 Today, we're bringing you an episode of a new series 0:00:20.596 --> 0:00:25.396 from Malcolm Gladwell's Revisionist History podcast called The Staten Island Problem. 0:00:25.836 --> 0:00:28.276 It's about New York City during the turbulent nineties, when 0:00:28.276 --> 0:00:30.676 a young Donald Trump was making deals, murder was at 0:00:30.676 --> 0:00:33.556 its peak, and Staten Island decided it had enough and 0:00:33.596 --> 0:00:36.756 wanted to secede from the city. It's written by Revisionist 0:00:36.756 --> 0:00:39.996 history producer Ben Natti Haffrey. Ben went really deep on 0:00:40.036 --> 0:00:42.796 the island's history and at some point realized the Staten 0:00:42.836 --> 0:00:45.516 Islands as Session movement was happening at the exact same 0:00:45.596 --> 0:00:48.516 time and place as the formation of the Wu Tang Plan. 0:00:49.276 --> 0:00:51.716 Ben's are wondering if the two things were somehow connected. 0:00:52.036 --> 0:00:54.196 The episode is about the breakup of a city and 0:00:54.236 --> 0:00:55.236 the coming together of one of the. 0:00:55.196 --> 0:00:56.436 Greatest groups in history. 0:00:56.836 --> 0:00:58.356 You can listen to the rest of The Staten Island 0:00:58.356 --> 0:01:02.156 Problem over on Revisionist History, available wherever podcasts are, but 0:01:02.156 --> 0:01:04.796 it is a sample episode of Ben's story. The Staten 0:01:04.836 --> 0:01:07.676 Island Problem. 0:01:07.836 --> 0:01:10.716 One of my favorite books, Middle March by George Elliott. 0:01:11.116 --> 0:01:13.316 It's about the life and manners of a small English 0:01:13.396 --> 0:01:16.676 town in the nineteenth century. It's also a cautionary tale 0:01:16.996 --> 0:01:20.556 for the kind of person I am. There's a character 0:01:20.636 --> 0:01:24.316 in the book named Edward Kasabon, a dreary, middle aged 0:01:24.356 --> 0:01:28.556 man who's engaged in a decades long writing project. Kasabon 0:01:28.676 --> 0:01:31.636 collects facts he writes on little sheets of paper that 0:01:31.716 --> 0:01:34.876 he stores in the pigeonholes of his library shelves. He 0:01:34.916 --> 0:01:37.476 claims that someday he's going to use these facts to 0:01:37.556 --> 0:01:39.916 prove that all the myths of the world are really 0:01:39.956 --> 0:01:44.516 one myth. He's obsessed. He calls it the key to 0:01:44.556 --> 0:01:50.396 all mythologies, and he sees it everywhere. I'm not middle aged, 0:01:50.436 --> 0:01:53.436 and I am fairly uppeed, but I fear that last 0:01:53.516 --> 0:01:57.236 bit is me. I see the Staten Island secession movement 0:01:57.356 --> 0:02:00.836 everywhere in our world today. I've carried my facts about 0:02:00.836 --> 0:02:03.436 the Staten Island secession movement around with me for quite 0:02:03.436 --> 0:02:06.116 a while. Now they burn a hole in my pocket. 0:02:06.756 --> 0:02:08.916 I go to parties, and inevitably I wind up in 0:02:08.916 --> 0:02:11.876 the corner with the Staten Islander who has suddenly revealed themselves. 0:02:12.116 --> 0:02:14.756 They look interested and then mildly concerned as I pull 0:02:14.836 --> 0:02:16.676 from memory the facts that I have stored in the 0:02:16.716 --> 0:02:20.436 pigeonholes of a document I have titled Excellent Staten Island Facts. 0:02:21.636 --> 0:02:23.956 Did you know the towers of the Verizonto and Narrow's 0:02:23.956 --> 0:02:26.276 Bridge are so far apart that they had to take 0:02:26.316 --> 0:02:29.116 into account the curvature of the earth when they built them. 0:02:29.516 --> 0:02:31.876 Did you know that Staten Island claims to have been 0:02:31.916 --> 0:02:36.036 home to the true and forgotten inventor of the telephone? 0:02:36.636 --> 0:02:40.396 Am I kazabon God, I hope not. I cautioned myself 0:02:40.436 --> 0:02:43.156 against seeing my project everywhere. Don't be the hammer to 0:02:43.196 --> 0:02:46.116 whom everything looks like a nail, don't try to write 0:02:46.236 --> 0:02:50.676 the key to all mythologies. And then I learned something 0:02:51.356 --> 0:02:56.436 like this. Wu Tang Clan, arguably the most important group 0:02:56.516 --> 0:02:59.876 in hip hop history is from Staten Island. They made 0:02:59.876 --> 0:03:03.276 their first album, Enter the Wu Tang thirty six Chambers, 0:03:03.476 --> 0:03:06.396 entirely during the height of the secession movement, and it 0:03:06.476 --> 0:03:10.516 came out in nineteen ninety three, just one week after 0:03:10.556 --> 0:03:12.316 the island was gonna vote on secession. 0:03:13.076 --> 0:03:15.996 I'm going to klomp Sat they move Jump Chop Sa 0:03:16.236 --> 0:03:19.556 saying a lot was no job as second hand mons 0:03:19.596 --> 0:03:20.716 bels don't know the man. 0:03:21.036 --> 0:03:22.876 So then we moved the Shalon Land. 0:03:23.036 --> 0:03:25.356 I began to listen to this record every day I 0:03:25.396 --> 0:03:28.196 worked on this project on the ferry to the archives, 0:03:28.276 --> 0:03:31.556 on the subway to work. Shall in what they called 0:03:31.596 --> 0:03:33.556 Staten Island is all over it. 0:03:33.636 --> 0:03:36.396 I'll come from the Sally Slump and the hallo fus 0:03:36.436 --> 0:03:38.396 come not niggas enough guns. 0:03:38.796 --> 0:03:41.556 Their music is all about their lives, what they witnessed 0:03:41.596 --> 0:03:44.236 on the island at the time. Like listen to this 0:03:44.476 --> 0:03:47.756 from the song Wu Tang Seventh Chamber. They bring up 0:03:47.756 --> 0:03:51.156 the projects in northern Staten Island where Wu Tang formed 0:03:51.516 --> 0:03:54.916 nicknamed Killa Hill, like. 0:03:54.916 --> 0:03:58.156 Clash the Russia, slash a sweat and Nigga back like a. 0:03:58.236 --> 0:04:01.676 Dutch Master Killer Sal jumped off and Killa Pilla I 0:04:01.836 --> 0:04:04.116 was the thrilla in the Alley Fraiser Manila. 0:04:04.876 --> 0:04:06.916 It's all about their lives in New York City in 0:04:06.956 --> 0:04:09.756 the early nineteen nineties, who there were become and what 0:04:09.796 --> 0:04:11.756 it all had to do with being from the rugged 0:04:11.836 --> 0:04:20.316 lands of Shaolin. I considered putting this on my list 0:04:20.316 --> 0:04:22.916 of excellent Staten Island facts and leaving it at that, 0:04:24.076 --> 0:04:27.556 but I had no choice. I put on my headphones, 0:04:28.156 --> 0:04:32.756 I picked up the phone, I opened my notebook. Kasimon 0:04:33.396 --> 0:04:41.036 rides again. You're listening to revisionist history. I'm Ben that 0:04:41.156 --> 0:04:44.036 of Haaffrey, and this is the Staten Island Problem, the 0:04:44.156 --> 0:04:46.636 series about the movement that threatened to bring down the 0:04:46.676 --> 0:04:51.676 greatest city in the country. In this episode, I bring 0:04:51.716 --> 0:04:53.676 you the story of the rise of one of the 0:04:53.716 --> 0:04:56.756 greatest rap groups in history that happened all while the 0:04:56.796 --> 0:05:01.916 Secession movement unfolded in the background. We're going to zero 0:05:01.996 --> 0:05:05.356 in on an entirely different experience taking place on the 0:05:05.396 --> 0:05:08.636 island at the same time, one that reveals just how 0:05:08.716 --> 0:05:11.996 in Trent the Staten Island problem really is, but one 0:05:11.996 --> 0:05:14.916 that also I think might show us away to solve it. 0:05:18.676 --> 0:05:30.876 This is episode four, Wu Tang versus the Shoutlin. I 0:05:30.916 --> 0:05:32.836 should say off the bat that I was unable to 0:05:32.876 --> 0:05:35.996 reach the Wu Tang clan for a brief moment. The 0:05:36.036 --> 0:05:38.356 manager of a lesser known member of the group considered 0:05:38.396 --> 0:05:41.916 giving me an interview, then he stopped taking my calls. Domingo, 0:05:42.116 --> 0:05:44.796 if you hear this, I'm ready when you are. But 0:05:44.996 --> 0:05:47.436 luckily I was able to track someone else down. 0:05:48.196 --> 0:05:50.556 I was actually one of the first journalists to ever 0:05:50.636 --> 0:05:55.116 deal with Wu Tang because their record label Loud called me. 0:05:55.156 --> 0:05:58.156 Up sciz Fernando was a hip hop journalist in the 0:05:58.156 --> 0:06:01.316 eighties and nineties. He covered Wu Tang from the beginning. 0:06:01.716 --> 0:06:04.516 Had he ever considered the crucial overlap of Wu Tang's 0:06:04.556 --> 0:06:07.636 formation in Staten Island secession. He had not. 0:06:08.596 --> 0:06:10.956 I no no idea any of that stuff was going 0:06:10.996 --> 0:06:11.756 on at the time. 0:06:12.396 --> 0:06:14.796 I don't even know if they did, Like it was 0:06:14.796 --> 0:06:17.396 the they must have. It was the biggest story on 0:06:17.476 --> 0:06:19.516 Staten Island. What was it going to be? 0:06:19.676 --> 0:06:22.316 Just like Staten Island was just going to be a city. 0:06:22.516 --> 0:06:26.196 Yeah. When the Wu Tang clan first formed their label 0:06:26.276 --> 0:06:29.156 called Skids to write their bio, so he connected with 0:06:29.196 --> 0:06:32.196 the group's to facto leader, a guy named Bobby Diggs 0:06:32.516 --> 0:06:34.076 who went by the name Rizza. 0:06:34.676 --> 0:06:37.996 And I was immediately struck by this guy, like I 0:06:38.036 --> 0:06:41.876 could detect like some serious intelligence in this sky. 0:06:43.236 --> 0:06:46.316 Rizza was a former drug dealer with no professional prospects 0:06:46.516 --> 0:06:50.276 living out on Staten Island. That alone was strange. In 0:06:50.316 --> 0:06:53.596 the pantheon of hip hop, Brooklyn and the Bronx reigned supreme. 0:06:54.196 --> 0:06:55.756 Nobody is from Staten Island. 0:06:56.676 --> 0:06:59.116 All of the five Borrows in New York were pretty 0:07:00.196 --> 0:07:02.436 represented in hip hop in the nineties. You had the 0:07:02.556 --> 0:07:04.876 you know you had like the Boogey Down Bronx, the 0:07:09.276 --> 0:07:11.516 guy so obviously Brooklyn. 0:07:12.156 --> 0:07:16.796 Honey out from the Man from the project. 0:07:17.236 --> 0:07:18.716 The Money Make in Manhattan. 0:07:18.996 --> 0:07:22.156 Now I'm the god named Curtis blow Ain't Christmas is 0:07:22.276 --> 0:07:22.716 one thing? 0:07:22.796 --> 0:07:23.076 I know? 0:07:23.316 --> 0:07:26.636 So every just about this time, I celebrate kid. 0:07:26.796 --> 0:07:27.516 With a rhyme. 0:07:28.436 --> 0:07:31.636 You know, Queens, you had Queen's Bridge projects produced so 0:07:31.676 --> 0:07:37.516 many amazing artists like nas Mob Deep every Date Hot, deal. 0:07:37.596 --> 0:07:39.156 With the Russia and mixed. 0:07:38.916 --> 0:07:42.236 Up in Sada, and like Staten Island. You know who 0:07:42.316 --> 0:07:44.996 was from Staten Island. There was not a lot of 0:07:45.076 --> 0:07:46.836 acts coming out of Staten Island. 0:07:46.996 --> 0:07:47.956 You know you had. 0:07:50.396 --> 0:07:51.276 Jesus, I'm blanking. 0:07:52.596 --> 0:07:56.036 This is all to say. Skiz was surprised. Here was 0:07:56.076 --> 0:07:59.436 this relatively unknown MC from the island with an encyclopedic 0:07:59.516 --> 0:08:02.836 knowledge of kung fu movies and a crew of eight 0:08:02.916 --> 0:08:06.236 other mcs who named themselves after a form of martial 0:08:06.356 --> 0:08:10.236 arts invented by a Taoist hermit. Skiz was like. 0:08:10.956 --> 0:08:14.596 What, wow, this guy is something else. 0:08:18.956 --> 0:08:22.116 So skis journalist that he is began a decades long 0:08:22.196 --> 0:08:25.556 process of figuring out how exactly the Wu Tang clan 0:08:25.676 --> 0:08:29.436 came to be Rizza decided what he wanted to do 0:08:29.476 --> 0:08:32.276 with his life. On America's two hundredth birthday. He was 0:08:32.316 --> 0:08:34.676 in the park Hill projects of Staten Island. It was 0:08:34.756 --> 0:08:37.276 July nineteen seventy six, and there was a party in 0:08:37.316 --> 0:08:42.156 the courtyard. A DJ was spinning records and rapping over them. 0:08:42.756 --> 0:08:46.476 He dip dip dive and socialized. I think those are 0:08:46.476 --> 0:08:48.916 the exact words that Rizza remembered, and that kind of 0:08:48.996 --> 0:08:53.076 just just that energy and just the excitement of that 0:08:53.196 --> 0:08:57.796 whole thing of seeing this free party happening in this environment. 0:08:57.956 --> 0:09:01.716 You know, all these kids running around and adults and 0:09:03.516 --> 0:09:06.916 people just enjoying the music and enjoying each other's company. 0:09:06.956 --> 0:09:09.396 This was how this was how hip hop starts. 0:09:09.276 --> 0:09:11.716 To Rizza was seven at the time. 0:09:12.196 --> 0:09:12.596 And. 0:09:14.156 --> 0:09:17.476 When you're a young kid exposed to this and this 0:09:17.596 --> 0:09:20.956 is like the excitement that's happening in your neighborhood, you 0:09:21.036 --> 0:09:23.316 want to be a part of it. And he wanted 0:09:23.316 --> 0:09:24.196 to be a part of it. 0:09:24.716 --> 0:09:27.676 He stayed up late into the night, turns fixed. 0:09:28.036 --> 0:09:31.876 So immediately he goes home and he starts riding rhymes, 0:09:31.916 --> 0:09:35.316 you know, and then as soon as he could, he 0:09:35.396 --> 0:09:36.356 starts DJing. 0:09:41.356 --> 0:09:43.516 Rizzam moved around a lot as a kid. He was 0:09:43.556 --> 0:09:46.436 born in Brooklyn spent some of his childhood in North Carolina, 0:09:46.716 --> 0:09:48.916 but he landed in the park Hill Projects on the 0:09:48.956 --> 0:09:52.076 north shore of Staten Island. The buildings were built in 0:09:52.156 --> 0:09:55.516 nineteen sixty five, around the same time as the bridge 0:09:55.556 --> 0:09:57.956 and the expressway that split the island down the middle 0:09:58.076 --> 0:10:00.556 into north and south shore. North was where the black 0:10:00.556 --> 0:10:03.796 people lived, South was where the white people lived. Several 0:10:03.796 --> 0:10:07.116 Staten Islanders told me the expressway was their equivalent of 0:10:07.156 --> 0:10:08.436 the Mason Dixon Line. 0:10:09.356 --> 0:10:10.636 People like, where are you from? 0:10:10.636 --> 0:10:11.476 And I'm like so. 0:10:11.556 --> 0:10:13.436 I used to say, if I tell you, I have 0:10:13.556 --> 0:10:15.196 to kill you, and you're like why, And then I'm 0:10:15.236 --> 0:10:16.676 like Staten Island. 0:10:17.636 --> 0:10:20.516 One day, when I was listing excellent Staten Island facts 0:10:20.516 --> 0:10:23.796 to a friend, she told me you should meet Daphne McWilliams. 0:10:24.396 --> 0:10:26.516 She's a filmmaker from Staten Island. 0:10:26.716 --> 0:10:30.116 There were only three houses on my parents' block, and 0:10:30.156 --> 0:10:33.076 then from the lake was park Kill Projects. 0:10:33.476 --> 0:10:36.196 Her parents were from Trinidad and Jamaica and didn't really 0:10:36.196 --> 0:10:39.596 know the intricate racial codes of Staten Island. Her family 0:10:39.636 --> 0:10:42.076 moved to the white area across from the park Hill Projects, 0:10:42.116 --> 0:10:43.476 back in the nineteen seventies. 0:10:43.996 --> 0:10:48.876 But when my mother found that house, she got a threatening, 0:10:49.756 --> 0:10:52.076 I guess call or something where they were like, oh 0:10:53.116 --> 0:10:55.236 you something like you better hope that you don't see 0:10:55.236 --> 0:10:57.996 your kids floating in in the pond. 0:10:59.076 --> 0:11:01.556 By one estimate, there were fewer than one thousand people 0:11:01.636 --> 0:11:05.436 of colors south of the Expressway. Daphne stuck out. She 0:11:05.476 --> 0:11:07.036 told me a story from when she was a kid 0:11:07.076 --> 0:11:09.916 about having a crush on an Italian American named Billy. 0:11:10.516 --> 0:11:13.076 One day she called his house and his. 0:11:13.116 --> 0:11:16.076 Mother picked up, and she was like, don't ever call 0:11:16.156 --> 0:11:19.276 this house again. So I went to school the next day. 0:11:19.316 --> 0:11:21.916 It was upset and I went and speak to this priest. 0:11:22.316 --> 0:11:23.996 I don't know what I did wrong. I don't know 0:11:23.996 --> 0:11:26.756 what I did wrong, and tell the guy goes, well, 0:11:26.836 --> 0:11:33.316 you see, he says something to like almost like this, 0:11:33.316 --> 0:11:35.836 this is a little happen for white kids, and there's 0:11:35.876 --> 0:11:39.076 like a little heaven for black kids. 0:11:37.396 --> 0:11:41.716 And I was like, oh my god, like I had 0:11:41.796 --> 0:11:42.396 no idea. 0:11:42.756 --> 0:11:45.636 When I look back and think about it, we always 0:11:45.636 --> 0:11:50.036 stood out because we were always the the black family. 0:11:52.076 --> 0:11:55.956 My parents didn't raise us in a segregated mindset. We 0:11:56.316 --> 0:11:58.356 just never it was this. 0:11:58.676 --> 0:12:01.636 It was the community that made us. 0:12:01.516 --> 0:12:04.476 Feel different, especially as you get older. 0:12:05.956 --> 0:12:08.916 But the truth is all of New York City was segregated. 0:12:08.916 --> 0:12:11.836 Then it seemed like there was a defining race riot 0:12:11.996 --> 0:12:15.636 every year. Very do the right thing. The reality that 0:12:15.716 --> 0:12:20.156 Mayor Dinkins's vision of a beautiful mosaic obscured is that 0:12:20.356 --> 0:12:23.196 if one bit of colored glass from the mosaic crossed another, 0:12:23.676 --> 0:12:26.676 someone might end up shot or run over, and then 0:12:26.676 --> 0:12:30.796 the riots would begin again. But Southern Staten Island was 0:12:30.836 --> 0:12:34.156 a particularly dramatic case. It may as well have been 0:12:34.196 --> 0:12:37.276 the Deep South. When one Wu Tang member went to 0:12:37.356 --> 0:12:40.556 Daphne's area, he remembered getting chased out by white kids 0:12:40.556 --> 0:12:44.516 with motorcycles. They spray painted KKK on the rocks to 0:12:44.556 --> 0:12:48.716 warn the black kids away. This was the Staten Island 0:12:48.836 --> 0:12:51.236 Riza grew up on, but he had a way of 0:12:51.356 --> 0:12:58.836 escaping that reality hip hop. By the time Rizza was 0:12:58.876 --> 0:13:01.596 in his early twenties, hip hop had gone stratospheric, from 0:13:01.596 --> 0:13:03.556 the courtyards and wreck rooms of the New York City 0:13:03.596 --> 0:13:06.956 projects to the top of the billboard charts. The labels 0:13:06.996 --> 0:13:09.916 were grabbing at any artists they could. Rizza got a deal. 0:13:10.276 --> 0:13:12.436 He brought his new label, a bunch of songs, and 0:13:12.476 --> 0:13:15.036 they said, we think girls will like you. So we 0:13:15.076 --> 0:13:18.116 wound up releasing an EP called Ooh We Love You Rakim, 0:13:18.516 --> 0:13:20.876 a record that presented him as a sweet ladies man 0:13:21.276 --> 0:13:33.316 named Prince Rakim Many Ladies. It was an attempt to 0:13:33.316 --> 0:13:37.556 do something extremely commercial, totally inoffensive and upbeat, and also 0:13:37.636 --> 0:13:41.396 fundamentally false and corny, and maybe for that reason it bombed. 0:13:43.076 --> 0:13:45.436 Rizza got dropped from his label and he was back 0:13:45.516 --> 0:13:50.396 to zero. That's when he started dealing drugs and almost 0:13:50.436 --> 0:13:54.396 went to prison for attempted murder. He argued self defense 0:13:54.476 --> 0:13:56.756 and beat the charges in the end, and he had 0:13:56.876 --> 0:14:00.676 ten thousand dollars left. It was enough to buy some 0:14:00.756 --> 0:14:03.516 drugs and sell them. But he had a kid on 0:14:03.516 --> 0:14:06.396 the way. He had to make a choice, and this 0:14:06.516 --> 0:14:09.836 choice became so legendary that he's still talking about it. 0:14:11.116 --> 0:14:13.476 Here he is on a recent episode of a podcast 0:14:13.516 --> 0:14:15.716 called Flagrant. 0:14:15.956 --> 0:14:19.356 I had tay k and the gag was, uh, the 0:14:19.396 --> 0:14:22.836 plan was to get a brick, so so we figured, oh. 0:14:22.676 --> 0:14:25.676 If we flipped this twenty, we could at least get eighty. 0:14:26.636 --> 0:14:29.516 The thing was, Joe I had a baby in a 0:14:29.596 --> 0:14:32.996 oven or maybe just born right so life was like 0:14:33.276 --> 0:14:34.076 what are you going to do? 0:14:34.236 --> 0:14:34.396 Yeah? 0:14:36.116 --> 0:14:36.956 But then. 0:14:38.236 --> 0:14:40.916 I was like, nah, I have a second chance. 0:14:42.156 --> 0:14:45.436 That's when he started calling himself Rizza r z A. 0:14:46.396 --> 0:14:49.396 He would later say it was short for rakeem zig 0:14:49.516 --> 0:14:53.516 zag zig allah. While everyone else zigged, it was time 0:14:53.596 --> 0:14:56.956 for him to zag. And so, living on a Staten 0:14:56.956 --> 0:14:59.156 Island that was in the middle of its own very 0:14:59.156 --> 0:15:02.396 big zag, he began to make a bold plan for 0:15:02.436 --> 0:15:07.436 an independence movement of his own, something called Wu Tang Clan. 0:15:23.676 --> 0:15:26.916 After he beat his charges, Bobby Diggs aka the Rizza, 0:15:27.236 --> 0:15:31.036 began to walk around Staten Island and he started to 0:15:31.116 --> 0:15:34.756 take these long, drawn out walks day after day. 0:15:35.756 --> 0:15:38.956 So I'm walking and I'm thinking, y'o, and I'm walking 0:15:38.996 --> 0:15:41.276 off ste I'll walking the stand and people people thought 0:15:41.596 --> 0:15:43.556 there was a long this, people who thought I was 0:15:43.556 --> 0:15:47.316 losing my mind because I'm walking and I'm talking to myself. 0:15:51.156 --> 0:15:54.596 He would walk the island and think Staten Island was 0:15:54.636 --> 0:15:57.796 more than twice the size of Manhattan, and Rizza could 0:15:57.836 --> 0:16:00.996 just walk and walk. He would start at the projects 0:16:01.036 --> 0:16:04.116 on the north shore, then maybe journey along the coastline 0:16:04.516 --> 0:16:11.916 through the suburban streets. Rizza was ready to make music again. 0:16:12.436 --> 0:16:14.916 But the first time out with his Prince Rakim project 0:16:15.236 --> 0:16:18.396 had gone badly. But the idea he was coming up 0:16:18.436 --> 0:16:21.356 with now was going to be different. And I want 0:16:21.356 --> 0:16:23.436 to argue here that it has everything to do with 0:16:23.516 --> 0:16:27.396 Staten Island. Let me share with you some writing from 0:16:27.476 --> 0:16:32.036 Rizz's book The Tao of Wu. I spent my formative 0:16:32.116 --> 0:16:35.796 years on an island, Staten Island, which is a blessing 0:16:35.836 --> 0:16:39.956 I've taken with me through life in Staten Island. Wu 0:16:39.996 --> 0:16:42.796 Tang were set apart from all the influences and fads 0:16:42.796 --> 0:16:46.156 that were happening in the other four boroughs. A nine 0:16:46.196 --> 0:16:49.116 man hip hop crew based on mathematics, chess, comics and 0:16:49.196 --> 0:16:51.796 kung fuflicks wasn't springing up in the middle of a 0:16:51.836 --> 0:16:56.396 Manhattan art scene. Only on a remote island can something 0:16:56.556 --> 0:17:02.756 like King Kong grow to his full capacity. But the 0:17:02.836 --> 0:17:05.516 projects in Staten Island were a difficult place to live. 0:17:06.276 --> 0:17:08.316 A few of the Wu Tang members have written books, 0:17:08.796 --> 0:17:11.116 and reading them, it's clear that it wasn't just the 0:17:11.156 --> 0:17:13.396 remoteness of Stadn Island that led them to the Wu 0:17:13.476 --> 0:17:17.916 Tang clan. It was also what they experienced there, especially 0:17:17.916 --> 0:17:22.156 in the projects. One Wu Tang member you, God wrote 0:17:22.156 --> 0:17:25.156 about the first time he saw somebody die. He was 0:17:25.196 --> 0:17:28.236 five years old, sitting with his mom listening to Loving 0:17:28.276 --> 0:17:32.236 You by Minnie Ripperton play on the radio outside. When 0:17:32.236 --> 0:17:34.316 he heard a crowd forming in the courtyard. He ran 0:17:34.316 --> 0:17:37.636 out to look. A woman was standing on the roof screaming. 0:17:38.356 --> 0:17:42.116 He watched so long his neck one stiff. Then she 0:17:42.236 --> 0:17:45.756 jumped or fell, you, God wrote in his book called 0:17:45.876 --> 0:17:49.476 Raw I was a toddler. The sound of her hitting 0:17:49.556 --> 0:17:54.636 the concrete steps would resonate with me forever. So when 0:17:54.716 --> 0:17:58.116 Rizzo walked Staaten Island, it wasn't just this utopian vision 0:17:58.156 --> 0:18:00.956 of the isolated island where you can dream big. It 0:18:01.036 --> 0:18:04.116 was also the deeply segregated place where kids living on 0:18:04.156 --> 0:18:06.956 their own little island watched adults fall to their death, 0:18:07.676 --> 0:18:12.596 a kind of paradox. And my theory is that paradox 0:18:12.756 --> 0:18:18.676 was expressed in the word Shao Lim. 0:18:18.796 --> 0:18:20.956 Yeah. 0:18:20.996 --> 0:18:23.196 When Rizza was a kid, he and his cousin used 0:18:23.236 --> 0:18:26.596 to go to a Times Square porno theater. Sometimes it 0:18:26.676 --> 0:18:30.476 showed kung Fu and one movie that they loved, in particular, 0:18:31.036 --> 0:18:33.316 the thirty sixth Chamber of Shao Lim. 0:18:33.956 --> 0:18:36.876 But sure or a man choose ah well armed what 0:18:37.036 --> 0:18:37.636 can we do? 0:18:38.036 --> 0:18:40.196 No man, so we he cannot help. 0:18:41.196 --> 0:18:43.436 Most people came to that Times Square movie theater to 0:18:43.516 --> 0:18:46.476 jerk off, sniff glue, or shoot heroin. But Riza would 0:18:46.556 --> 0:18:48.756 later say in interviews that he and his cousin were 0:18:48.836 --> 0:18:51.916 locked in on this poorly dubbed movie about a small 0:18:52.036 --> 0:18:55.156 village in China that was being oppressed by a distant government. 0:18:55.916 --> 0:18:58.796 The hero of the movie is a villager who journeys 0:18:58.836 --> 0:19:02.156 to the Shaolin temple in China to learn to fight back. 0:19:03.396 --> 0:19:08.756 Riza saw this movie over three hundred times. He hadn't 0:19:08.756 --> 0:19:12.596 realized that kind of oppression happened to people who weren't black. 0:19:14.036 --> 0:19:16.356 This is from the thirty six Chamber when our hero 0:19:16.476 --> 0:19:18.356 learns what Shao Lin is. 0:19:18.516 --> 0:19:20.116 Shallin's school is restricted. 0:19:21.476 --> 0:19:25.516 Only monks had taught that if Shaolin techniques could be 0:19:25.556 --> 0:19:28.756 taught here and the people could use it to fight 0:19:28.796 --> 0:19:31.076 the Manchu troops, that would be good. 0:19:31.956 --> 0:19:35.036 At some point, Rizaz started to call Staten Island Shao Lin, 0:19:35.676 --> 0:19:38.476 the place he learned his secret weapon to fighting oppression 0:19:38.556 --> 0:19:42.076 hip hop but Staten Island was also a version of 0:19:42.076 --> 0:19:45.996 that distant oppressive government he saw in the films, and 0:19:46.076 --> 0:19:47.996 as he walked the Island trying to come up with 0:19:48.036 --> 0:19:50.676 his next play. He didn't decide to start a group 0:19:50.756 --> 0:19:53.636 called the Shaolin Clan. He came up with an idea 0:19:53.716 --> 0:19:58.156 for something called the Wu Tang Clan, named after Shaolin's rival. 0:19:59.076 --> 0:20:01.516 This is from another kung fu movie they loved, called 0:20:01.636 --> 0:20:03.396 Shao Lin Versus Wu Tang. 0:20:03.916 --> 0:20:05.636 Isn't it true that you think you are better than us, 0:20:05.716 --> 0:20:07.396 but you're afraid that one day the Wu Tang will 0:20:07.436 --> 0:20:07.996 overtake you? 0:20:07.836 --> 0:20:09.796 You till you use your special points, gonna get rid 0:20:09.796 --> 0:20:11.156 of by master who was your biggest threat. 0:20:11.196 --> 0:20:12.676 On said, no, it isn't I saw it with my 0:20:12.716 --> 0:20:14.796 own eyes. Since Chao Lyn, I'm afraid of the. 0:20:14.796 --> 0:20:17.716 Wu Tang Wu Tang will find Listen to me, someone 0:20:17.796 --> 0:20:18.636 is trying to frame me. 0:20:21.196 --> 0:20:26.236 Rizza kept walking and thinking Chao Lin Wu Tang thirty 0:20:26.276 --> 0:20:32.876 six Chambers Shall Lin Wu Tang thirty six Chambers. Wu 0:20:32.956 --> 0:20:36.556 Tang biographer Skiz Fernando knew all about those walks Rizza 0:20:36.556 --> 0:20:36.996 would take. 0:20:37.996 --> 0:20:40.516 That's one good thing about Staten Island. You can walk 0:20:40.556 --> 0:20:45.436 around in these nice neighborhoods with like Victorian mansions. You 0:20:45.436 --> 0:20:49.556 don't have to worry about getting mugged necessarily and. 0:20:49.556 --> 0:20:51.476 What would have been on the lawns of all those 0:20:51.556 --> 0:20:55.796 Victorian mansions. Rizza was walking by signs that said vote 0:20:55.916 --> 0:20:58.836 yes for the City of Staten Island, secession means a 0:20:58.876 --> 0:21:03.116 better life, billboards for secession above the streets, the same 0:21:03.196 --> 0:21:05.276 thing as was on the front page of the paper 0:21:05.316 --> 0:21:08.636 all the time, the same thing the NAACP of Staten 0:21:08.676 --> 0:21:11.916 Island was hosting meetings about, worrying that this could be 0:21:11.956 --> 0:21:15.916 really bad for black people living on Staten Island. Let 0:21:15.956 --> 0:21:19.036 me be clear, I have never found Riza himself talking 0:21:19.076 --> 0:21:22.356 about Staten Island secession, but in my kasbon mode I 0:21:22.476 --> 0:21:25.956 see a connection. Because as he walked a Staten Island 0:21:25.956 --> 0:21:28.196 that felt like it wasn't welcome in New York City 0:21:28.436 --> 0:21:31.156 and was striking out on its own, this guy, who 0:21:31.156 --> 0:21:33.596 would have every reason not to feel welcome on Staten 0:21:33.636 --> 0:21:36.636 Island formed a plan for an unlikely hip hop group 0:21:36.676 --> 0:21:40.796 from Shaolin that was about to do the same. Maybe 0:21:40.956 --> 0:21:43.596 he thought they could skip the whole major label thing 0:21:43.636 --> 0:21:46.356 that had screwed him before. Maybe he didn't have to 0:21:46.396 --> 0:21:50.316 sanitize his life and character to succeed. Maybe there could 0:21:50.356 --> 0:21:52.956 be a hip hop group from the forgotten borough that 0:21:53.036 --> 0:21:55.796 made it all happen on its own, and that group 0:21:55.836 --> 0:22:00.276 would be called Wu Tang Clan. He began to assemble 0:22:00.316 --> 0:22:03.676 his crew, and the core ideology for Riza, I think 0:22:04.116 --> 0:22:06.516 had a whole lot in common with the secession movement. 0:22:06.876 --> 0:22:11.596 It's the exact same fantasy. If some central authority is 0:22:11.636 --> 0:22:14.236 dominating you and you don't like it, what do you do? 0:22:15.156 --> 0:22:18.636 Go away to shoolin, learn the truth, build a movement, 0:22:19.196 --> 0:22:22.276 and go to war with the oppressor till you remake 0:22:22.316 --> 0:22:37.636 it in your own image. Let me put my kasavon 0:22:37.796 --> 0:22:40.196 robe back on and bring you back into my library. 0:22:40.556 --> 0:22:45.516 Please sit at the table, have a mug of tepid tea. 0:22:45.636 --> 0:22:48.436 I believe that the fantasy Wu Tang Clan had was 0:22:48.476 --> 0:22:50.356 that there's a way to strike out on your own, 0:22:50.396 --> 0:22:53.956 independently and take over the forces that oppressed you. And 0:22:53.996 --> 0:22:57.596