1 00:00:15,476 --> 00:00:15,956 Speaker 1: Pushkin. 2 00:00:18,276 --> 00:00:20,596 Speaker 2: Today, we're bringing you an episode of a new series 3 00:00:20,596 --> 00:00:25,396 Speaker 2: from Malcolm Gladwell's Revisionist History podcast called The Staten Island Problem. 4 00:00:25,836 --> 00:00:28,276 Speaker 2: It's about New York City during the turbulent nineties, when 5 00:00:28,276 --> 00:00:30,676 Speaker 2: a young Donald Trump was making deals, murder was at 6 00:00:30,676 --> 00:00:33,556 Speaker 2: its peak, and Staten Island decided it had enough and 7 00:00:33,596 --> 00:00:36,756 Speaker 2: wanted to secede from the city. It's written by Revisionist 8 00:00:36,756 --> 00:00:39,996 Speaker 2: history producer Ben Natti Haffrey. Ben went really deep on 9 00:00:40,036 --> 00:00:42,796 Speaker 2: the island's history and at some point realized the Staten 10 00:00:42,836 --> 00:00:45,516 Speaker 2: Islands as Session movement was happening at the exact same 11 00:00:45,596 --> 00:00:48,516 Speaker 2: time and place as the formation of the Wu Tang Plan. 12 00:00:49,276 --> 00:00:51,716 Speaker 2: Ben's are wondering if the two things were somehow connected. 13 00:00:52,036 --> 00:00:54,196 Speaker 2: The episode is about the breakup of a city and 14 00:00:54,236 --> 00:00:55,236 Speaker 2: the coming together of one of the. 15 00:00:55,196 --> 00:00:56,436 Speaker 1: Greatest groups in history. 16 00:00:56,836 --> 00:00:58,356 Speaker 2: You can listen to the rest of The Staten Island 17 00:00:58,356 --> 00:01:02,156 Speaker 2: Problem over on Revisionist History, available wherever podcasts are, but 18 00:01:02,156 --> 00:01:04,796 Speaker 2: it is a sample episode of Ben's story. The Staten 19 00:01:04,836 --> 00:01:07,676 Speaker 2: Island Problem. 20 00:01:07,836 --> 00:01:10,716 Speaker 1: One of my favorite books, Middle March by George Elliott. 21 00:01:11,116 --> 00:01:13,316 Speaker 1: It's about the life and manners of a small English 22 00:01:13,396 --> 00:01:16,676 Speaker 1: town in the nineteenth century. It's also a cautionary tale 23 00:01:16,996 --> 00:01:20,556 Speaker 1: for the kind of person I am. There's a character 24 00:01:20,636 --> 00:01:24,316 Speaker 1: in the book named Edward Kasabon, a dreary, middle aged 25 00:01:24,356 --> 00:01:28,556 Speaker 1: man who's engaged in a decades long writing project. Kasabon 26 00:01:28,676 --> 00:01:31,636 Speaker 1: collects facts he writes on little sheets of paper that 27 00:01:31,716 --> 00:01:34,876 Speaker 1: he stores in the pigeonholes of his library shelves. He 28 00:01:34,916 --> 00:01:37,476 Speaker 1: claims that someday he's going to use these facts to 29 00:01:37,556 --> 00:01:39,916 Speaker 1: prove that all the myths of the world are really 30 00:01:39,956 --> 00:01:44,516 Speaker 1: one myth. He's obsessed. He calls it the key to 31 00:01:44,556 --> 00:01:50,396 Speaker 1: all mythologies, and he sees it everywhere. I'm not middle aged, 32 00:01:50,436 --> 00:01:53,436 Speaker 1: and I am fairly uppeed, but I fear that last 33 00:01:53,516 --> 00:01:57,236 Speaker 1: bit is me. I see the Staten Island secession movement 34 00:01:57,356 --> 00:02:00,836 Speaker 1: everywhere in our world today. I've carried my facts about 35 00:02:00,836 --> 00:02:03,436 Speaker 1: the Staten Island secession movement around with me for quite 36 00:02:03,436 --> 00:02:06,116 Speaker 1: a while. Now they burn a hole in my pocket. 37 00:02:06,756 --> 00:02:08,916 Speaker 1: I go to parties, and inevitably I wind up in 38 00:02:08,916 --> 00:02:11,876 Speaker 1: the corner with the Staten Islander who has suddenly revealed themselves. 39 00:02:12,116 --> 00:02:14,756 Speaker 1: They look interested and then mildly concerned as I pull 40 00:02:14,836 --> 00:02:16,676 Speaker 1: from memory the facts that I have stored in the 41 00:02:16,716 --> 00:02:20,436 Speaker 1: pigeonholes of a document I have titled Excellent Staten Island Facts. 42 00:02:21,636 --> 00:02:23,956 Speaker 1: Did you know the towers of the Verizonto and Narrow's 43 00:02:23,956 --> 00:02:26,276 Speaker 1: Bridge are so far apart that they had to take 44 00:02:26,316 --> 00:02:29,116 Speaker 1: into account the curvature of the earth when they built them. 45 00:02:29,516 --> 00:02:31,876 Speaker 1: Did you know that Staten Island claims to have been 46 00:02:31,916 --> 00:02:36,036 Speaker 1: home to the true and forgotten inventor of the telephone? 47 00:02:36,636 --> 00:02:40,396 Speaker 1: Am I kazabon God, I hope not. I cautioned myself 48 00:02:40,436 --> 00:02:43,156 Speaker 1: against seeing my project everywhere. Don't be the hammer to 49 00:02:43,196 --> 00:02:46,116 Speaker 1: whom everything looks like a nail, don't try to write 50 00:02:46,236 --> 00:02:50,676 Speaker 1: the key to all mythologies. And then I learned something 51 00:02:51,356 --> 00:02:56,436 Speaker 1: like this. Wu Tang Clan, arguably the most important group 52 00:02:56,516 --> 00:02:59,876 Speaker 1: in hip hop history is from Staten Island. They made 53 00:02:59,876 --> 00:03:03,276 Speaker 1: their first album, Enter the Wu Tang thirty six Chambers, 54 00:03:03,476 --> 00:03:06,396 Speaker 1: entirely during the height of the secession movement, and it 55 00:03:06,476 --> 00:03:10,516 Speaker 1: came out in nineteen ninety three, just one week after 56 00:03:10,556 --> 00:03:12,316 Speaker 1: the island was gonna vote on secession. 57 00:03:13,076 --> 00:03:15,996 Speaker 3: I'm going to klomp Sat they move Jump Chop Sa 58 00:03:16,236 --> 00:03:19,556 Speaker 3: saying a lot was no job as second hand mons 59 00:03:19,596 --> 00:03:20,716 Speaker 3: bels don't know the man. 60 00:03:21,036 --> 00:03:22,876 Speaker 2: So then we moved the Shalon Land. 61 00:03:23,036 --> 00:03:25,356 Speaker 1: I began to listen to this record every day I 62 00:03:25,396 --> 00:03:28,196 Speaker 1: worked on this project on the ferry to the archives, 63 00:03:28,276 --> 00:03:31,556 Speaker 1: on the subway to work. Shall in what they called 64 00:03:31,596 --> 00:03:33,556 Speaker 1: Staten Island is all over it. 65 00:03:33,636 --> 00:03:36,396 Speaker 2: I'll come from the Sally Slump and the hallo fus 66 00:03:36,436 --> 00:03:38,396 Speaker 2: come not niggas enough guns. 67 00:03:38,796 --> 00:03:41,556 Speaker 1: Their music is all about their lives, what they witnessed 68 00:03:41,596 --> 00:03:44,236 Speaker 1: on the island at the time. Like listen to this 69 00:03:44,476 --> 00:03:47,756 Speaker 1: from the song Wu Tang Seventh Chamber. They bring up 70 00:03:47,756 --> 00:03:51,156 Speaker 1: the projects in northern Staten Island where Wu Tang formed 71 00:03:51,516 --> 00:03:54,916 Speaker 1: nicknamed Killa Hill, like. 72 00:03:54,916 --> 00:03:58,156 Speaker 2: Clash the Russia, slash a sweat and Nigga back like a. 73 00:03:58,236 --> 00:04:01,676 Speaker 4: Dutch Master Killer Sal jumped off and Killa Pilla I 74 00:04:01,836 --> 00:04:04,116 Speaker 4: was the thrilla in the Alley Fraiser Manila. 75 00:04:04,876 --> 00:04:06,916 Speaker 1: It's all about their lives in New York City in 76 00:04:06,956 --> 00:04:09,756 Speaker 1: the early nineteen nineties, who there were become and what 77 00:04:09,796 --> 00:04:11,756 Speaker 1: it all had to do with being from the rugged 78 00:04:11,836 --> 00:04:20,316 Speaker 1: lands of Shaolin. I considered putting this on my list 79 00:04:20,316 --> 00:04:22,916 Speaker 1: of excellent Staten Island facts and leaving it at that, 80 00:04:24,076 --> 00:04:27,556 Speaker 1: but I had no choice. I put on my headphones, 81 00:04:28,156 --> 00:04:32,756 Speaker 1: I picked up the phone, I opened my notebook. Kasimon 82 00:04:33,396 --> 00:04:41,036 Speaker 1: rides again. You're listening to revisionist history. I'm Ben that 83 00:04:41,156 --> 00:04:44,036 Speaker 1: of Haaffrey, and this is the Staten Island Problem, the 84 00:04:44,156 --> 00:04:46,636 Speaker 1: series about the movement that threatened to bring down the 85 00:04:46,676 --> 00:04:51,676 Speaker 1: greatest city in the country. In this episode, I bring 86 00:04:51,716 --> 00:04:53,676 Speaker 1: you the story of the rise of one of the 87 00:04:53,716 --> 00:04:56,756 Speaker 1: greatest rap groups in history that happened all while the 88 00:04:56,796 --> 00:05:01,916 Speaker 1: Secession movement unfolded in the background. We're going to zero 89 00:05:01,996 --> 00:05:05,356 Speaker 1: in on an entirely different experience taking place on the 90 00:05:05,396 --> 00:05:08,636 Speaker 1: island at the same time, one that reveals just how 91 00:05:08,716 --> 00:05:11,996 Speaker 1: in Trent the Staten Island problem really is, but one 92 00:05:11,996 --> 00:05:14,916 Speaker 1: that also I think might show us away to solve it. 93 00:05:18,676 --> 00:05:30,876 Speaker 1: This is episode four, Wu Tang versus the Shoutlin. I 94 00:05:30,916 --> 00:05:32,836 Speaker 1: should say off the bat that I was unable to 95 00:05:32,876 --> 00:05:35,996 Speaker 1: reach the Wu Tang clan for a brief moment. The 96 00:05:36,036 --> 00:05:38,356 Speaker 1: manager of a lesser known member of the group considered 97 00:05:38,396 --> 00:05:41,916 Speaker 1: giving me an interview, then he stopped taking my calls. Domingo, 98 00:05:42,116 --> 00:05:44,796 Speaker 1: if you hear this, I'm ready when you are. But 99 00:05:44,996 --> 00:05:47,436 Speaker 1: luckily I was able to track someone else down. 100 00:05:48,196 --> 00:05:50,556 Speaker 5: I was actually one of the first journalists to ever 101 00:05:50,636 --> 00:05:55,116 Speaker 5: deal with Wu Tang because their record label Loud called me. 102 00:05:55,156 --> 00:05:58,156 Speaker 1: Up sciz Fernando was a hip hop journalist in the 103 00:05:58,156 --> 00:06:01,316 Speaker 1: eighties and nineties. He covered Wu Tang from the beginning. 104 00:06:01,716 --> 00:06:04,516 Speaker 1: Had he ever considered the crucial overlap of Wu Tang's 105 00:06:04,556 --> 00:06:07,636 Speaker 1: formation in Staten Island secession. He had not. 106 00:06:08,596 --> 00:06:10,956 Speaker 5: I no no idea any of that stuff was going 107 00:06:10,996 --> 00:06:11,756 Speaker 5: on at the time. 108 00:06:12,396 --> 00:06:14,796 Speaker 1: I don't even know if they did, Like it was 109 00:06:14,796 --> 00:06:17,396 Speaker 1: the they must have. It was the biggest story on 110 00:06:17,476 --> 00:06:19,516 Speaker 1: Staten Island. What was it going to be? 111 00:06:19,676 --> 00:06:22,316 Speaker 5: Just like Staten Island was just going to be a city. 112 00:06:22,516 --> 00:06:26,196 Speaker 1: Yeah. When the Wu Tang clan first formed their label 113 00:06:26,276 --> 00:06:29,156 Speaker 1: called Skids to write their bio, so he connected with 114 00:06:29,196 --> 00:06:32,196 Speaker 1: the group's to facto leader, a guy named Bobby Diggs 115 00:06:32,516 --> 00:06:34,076 Speaker 1: who went by the name Rizza. 116 00:06:34,676 --> 00:06:37,996 Speaker 5: And I was immediately struck by this guy, like I 117 00:06:38,036 --> 00:06:41,876 Speaker 5: could detect like some serious intelligence in this sky. 118 00:06:43,236 --> 00:06:46,316 Speaker 1: Rizza was a former drug dealer with no professional prospects 119 00:06:46,516 --> 00:06:50,276 Speaker 1: living out on Staten Island. That alone was strange. In 120 00:06:50,316 --> 00:06:53,596 Speaker 1: the pantheon of hip hop, Brooklyn and the Bronx reigned supreme. 121 00:06:54,196 --> 00:06:55,756 Speaker 1: Nobody is from Staten Island. 122 00:06:56,676 --> 00:06:59,116 Speaker 5: All of the five Borrows in New York were pretty 123 00:07:00,196 --> 00:07:02,436 Speaker 5: represented in hip hop in the nineties. You had the 124 00:07:02,556 --> 00:07:04,876 Speaker 5: you know you had like the Boogey Down Bronx, the 125 00:07:09,276 --> 00:07:11,516 Speaker 5: guy so obviously Brooklyn. 126 00:07:12,156 --> 00:07:16,796 Speaker 4: Honey out from the Man from the project. 127 00:07:17,236 --> 00:07:18,716 Speaker 5: The Money Make in Manhattan. 128 00:07:18,996 --> 00:07:22,156 Speaker 6: Now I'm the god named Curtis blow Ain't Christmas is 129 00:07:22,276 --> 00:07:22,716 Speaker 6: one thing? 130 00:07:22,796 --> 00:07:23,076 Speaker 3: I know? 131 00:07:23,316 --> 00:07:26,636 Speaker 1: So every just about this time, I celebrate kid. 132 00:07:26,796 --> 00:07:27,516 Speaker 3: With a rhyme. 133 00:07:28,436 --> 00:07:31,636 Speaker 5: You know, Queens, you had Queen's Bridge projects produced so 134 00:07:31,676 --> 00:07:37,516 Speaker 5: many amazing artists like nas Mob Deep every Date Hot, deal. 135 00:07:37,596 --> 00:07:39,156 Speaker 2: With the Russia and mixed. 136 00:07:38,916 --> 00:07:42,236 Speaker 5: Up in Sada, and like Staten Island. You know who 137 00:07:42,316 --> 00:07:44,996 Speaker 5: was from Staten Island. There was not a lot of 138 00:07:45,076 --> 00:07:46,836 Speaker 5: acts coming out of Staten Island. 139 00:07:46,996 --> 00:07:47,956 Speaker 1: You know you had. 140 00:07:50,396 --> 00:07:51,276 Speaker 5: Jesus, I'm blanking. 141 00:07:52,596 --> 00:07:56,036 Speaker 1: This is all to say. Skiz was surprised. Here was 142 00:07:56,076 --> 00:07:59,436 Speaker 1: this relatively unknown MC from the island with an encyclopedic 143 00:07:59,516 --> 00:08:02,836 Speaker 1: knowledge of kung fu movies and a crew of eight 144 00:08:02,916 --> 00:08:06,236 Speaker 1: other mcs who named themselves after a form of martial 145 00:08:06,356 --> 00:08:10,236 Speaker 1: arts invented by a Taoist hermit. Skiz was like. 146 00:08:10,956 --> 00:08:14,596 Speaker 5: What, wow, this guy is something else. 147 00:08:18,956 --> 00:08:22,116 Speaker 1: So skis journalist that he is began a decades long 148 00:08:22,196 --> 00:08:25,556 Speaker 1: process of figuring out how exactly the Wu Tang clan 149 00:08:25,676 --> 00:08:29,436 Speaker 1: came to be Rizza decided what he wanted to do 150 00:08:29,476 --> 00:08:32,276 Speaker 1: with his life. On America's two hundredth birthday. He was 151 00:08:32,316 --> 00:08:34,676 Speaker 1: in the park Hill projects of Staten Island. It was 152 00:08:34,756 --> 00:08:37,276 Speaker 1: July nineteen seventy six, and there was a party in 153 00:08:37,316 --> 00:08:42,156 Speaker 1: the courtyard. A DJ was spinning records and rapping over them. 154 00:08:42,756 --> 00:08:46,476 Speaker 5: He dip dip dive and socialized. I think those are 155 00:08:46,476 --> 00:08:48,916 Speaker 5: the exact words that Rizza remembered, and that kind of 156 00:08:48,996 --> 00:08:53,076 Speaker 5: just just that energy and just the excitement of that 157 00:08:53,196 --> 00:08:57,796 Speaker 5: whole thing of seeing this free party happening in this environment. 158 00:08:57,956 --> 00:09:01,716 Speaker 5: You know, all these kids running around and adults and 159 00:09:03,516 --> 00:09:06,916 Speaker 5: people just enjoying the music and enjoying each other's company. 160 00:09:06,956 --> 00:09:09,396 Speaker 5: This was how this was how hip hop starts. 161 00:09:09,276 --> 00:09:11,716 Speaker 1: To Rizza was seven at the time. 162 00:09:12,196 --> 00:09:12,596 Speaker 4: And. 163 00:09:14,156 --> 00:09:17,476 Speaker 5: When you're a young kid exposed to this and this 164 00:09:17,596 --> 00:09:20,956 Speaker 5: is like the excitement that's happening in your neighborhood, you 165 00:09:21,036 --> 00:09:23,316 Speaker 5: want to be a part of it. And he wanted 166 00:09:23,316 --> 00:09:24,196 Speaker 5: to be a part of it. 167 00:09:24,716 --> 00:09:27,676 Speaker 1: He stayed up late into the night, turns fixed. 168 00:09:28,036 --> 00:09:31,876 Speaker 5: So immediately he goes home and he starts riding rhymes, 169 00:09:31,916 --> 00:09:35,316 Speaker 5: you know, and then as soon as he could, he 170 00:09:35,396 --> 00:09:36,356 Speaker 5: starts DJing. 171 00:09:41,356 --> 00:09:43,516 Speaker 1: Rizzam moved around a lot as a kid. He was 172 00:09:43,556 --> 00:09:46,436 Speaker 1: born in Brooklyn spent some of his childhood in North Carolina, 173 00:09:46,716 --> 00:09:48,916 Speaker 1: but he landed in the park Hill Projects on the 174 00:09:48,956 --> 00:09:52,076 Speaker 1: north shore of Staten Island. The buildings were built in 175 00:09:52,156 --> 00:09:55,516 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty five, around the same time as the bridge 176 00:09:55,556 --> 00:09:57,956 Speaker 1: and the expressway that split the island down the middle 177 00:09:58,076 --> 00:10:00,556 Speaker 1: into north and south shore. North was where the black 178 00:10:00,556 --> 00:10:03,796 Speaker 1: people lived, South was where the white people lived. Several 179 00:10:03,796 --> 00:10:07,116 Speaker 1: Staten Islanders told me the expressway was their equivalent of 180 00:10:07,156 --> 00:10:08,436 Speaker 1: the Mason Dixon Line. 181 00:10:09,356 --> 00:10:10,636 Speaker 6: People like, where are you from? 182 00:10:10,636 --> 00:10:11,476 Speaker 1: And I'm like so. 183 00:10:11,556 --> 00:10:13,436 Speaker 6: I used to say, if I tell you, I have 184 00:10:13,556 --> 00:10:15,196 Speaker 6: to kill you, and you're like why, And then I'm 185 00:10:15,236 --> 00:10:16,676 Speaker 6: like Staten Island. 186 00:10:17,636 --> 00:10:20,516 Speaker 1: One day, when I was listing excellent Staten Island facts 187 00:10:20,516 --> 00:10:23,796 Speaker 1: to a friend, she told me you should meet Daphne McWilliams. 188 00:10:24,396 --> 00:10:26,516 Speaker 1: She's a filmmaker from Staten Island. 189 00:10:26,716 --> 00:10:30,116 Speaker 6: There were only three houses on my parents' block, and 190 00:10:30,156 --> 00:10:33,076 Speaker 6: then from the lake was park Kill Projects. 191 00:10:33,476 --> 00:10:36,196 Speaker 1: Her parents were from Trinidad and Jamaica and didn't really 192 00:10:36,196 --> 00:10:39,596 Speaker 1: know the intricate racial codes of Staten Island. Her family 193 00:10:39,636 --> 00:10:42,076 Speaker 1: moved to the white area across from the park Hill Projects, 194 00:10:42,116 --> 00:10:43,476 Speaker 1: back in the nineteen seventies. 195 00:10:43,996 --> 00:10:48,876 Speaker 6: But when my mother found that house, she got a threatening, 196 00:10:49,756 --> 00:10:52,076 Speaker 6: I guess call or something where they were like, oh 197 00:10:53,116 --> 00:10:55,236 Speaker 6: you something like you better hope that you don't see 198 00:10:55,236 --> 00:10:57,996 Speaker 6: your kids floating in in the pond. 199 00:10:59,076 --> 00:11:01,556 Speaker 1: By one estimate, there were fewer than one thousand people 200 00:11:01,636 --> 00:11:05,436 Speaker 1: of colors south of the Expressway. Daphne stuck out. She 201 00:11:05,476 --> 00:11:07,036 Speaker 1: told me a story from when she was a kid 202 00:11:07,076 --> 00:11:09,916 Speaker 1: about having a crush on an Italian American named Billy. 203 00:11:10,516 --> 00:11:13,076 Speaker 1: One day she called his house and his. 204 00:11:13,116 --> 00:11:16,076 Speaker 6: Mother picked up, and she was like, don't ever call 205 00:11:16,156 --> 00:11:19,276 Speaker 6: this house again. So I went to school the next day. 206 00:11:19,316 --> 00:11:21,916 Speaker 6: It was upset and I went and speak to this priest. 207 00:11:22,316 --> 00:11:23,996 Speaker 6: I don't know what I did wrong. I don't know 208 00:11:23,996 --> 00:11:26,756 Speaker 6: what I did wrong, and tell the guy goes, well, 209 00:11:26,836 --> 00:11:33,316 Speaker 6: you see, he says something to like almost like this, 210 00:11:33,316 --> 00:11:35,836 Speaker 6: this is a little happen for white kids, and there's 211 00:11:35,876 --> 00:11:39,076 Speaker 6: like a little heaven for black kids. 212 00:11:37,396 --> 00:11:41,716 Speaker 1: And I was like, oh my god, like I had 213 00:11:41,796 --> 00:11:42,396 Speaker 1: no idea. 214 00:11:42,756 --> 00:11:45,636 Speaker 6: When I look back and think about it, we always 215 00:11:45,636 --> 00:11:50,036 Speaker 6: stood out because we were always the the black family. 216 00:11:52,076 --> 00:11:55,956 Speaker 6: My parents didn't raise us in a segregated mindset. We 217 00:11:56,316 --> 00:11:58,356 Speaker 6: just never it was this. 218 00:11:58,676 --> 00:12:01,636 Speaker 5: It was the community that made us. 219 00:12:01,516 --> 00:12:04,476 Speaker 6: Feel different, especially as you get older. 220 00:12:05,956 --> 00:12:08,916 Speaker 1: But the truth is all of New York City was segregated. 221 00:12:08,916 --> 00:12:11,836 Speaker 1: Then it seemed like there was a defining race riot 222 00:12:11,996 --> 00:12:15,636 Speaker 1: every year. Very do the right thing. The reality that 223 00:12:15,716 --> 00:12:20,156 Speaker 1: Mayor Dinkins's vision of a beautiful mosaic obscured is that 224 00:12:20,356 --> 00:12:23,196 Speaker 1: if one bit of colored glass from the mosaic crossed another, 225 00:12:23,676 --> 00:12:26,676 Speaker 1: someone might end up shot or run over, and then 226 00:12:26,676 --> 00:12:30,796 Speaker 1: the riots would begin again. But Southern Staten Island was 227 00:12:30,836 --> 00:12:34,156 Speaker 1: a particularly dramatic case. It may as well have been 228 00:12:34,196 --> 00:12:37,276 Speaker 1: the Deep South. When one Wu Tang member went to 229 00:12:37,356 --> 00:12:40,556 Speaker 1: Daphne's area, he remembered getting chased out by white kids 230 00:12:40,556 --> 00:12:44,516 Speaker 1: with motorcycles. They spray painted KKK on the rocks to 231 00:12:44,556 --> 00:12:48,716 Speaker 1: warn the black kids away. This was the Staten Island 232 00:12:48,836 --> 00:12:51,236 Speaker 1: Riza grew up on, but he had a way of 233 00:12:51,356 --> 00:12:58,836 Speaker 1: escaping that reality hip hop. By the time Rizza was 234 00:12:58,876 --> 00:13:01,596 Speaker 1: in his early twenties, hip hop had gone stratospheric, from 235 00:13:01,596 --> 00:13:03,556 Speaker 1: the courtyards and wreck rooms of the New York City 236 00:13:03,596 --> 00:13:06,956 Speaker 1: projects to the top of the billboard charts. The labels 237 00:13:06,996 --> 00:13:09,916 Speaker 1: were grabbing at any artists they could. Rizza got a deal. 238 00:13:10,276 --> 00:13:12,436 Speaker 1: He brought his new label, a bunch of songs, and 239 00:13:12,476 --> 00:13:15,036 Speaker 1: they said, we think girls will like you. So we 240 00:13:15,076 --> 00:13:18,116 Speaker 1: wound up releasing an EP called Ooh We Love You Rakim, 241 00:13:18,516 --> 00:13:20,876 Speaker 1: a record that presented him as a sweet ladies man 242 00:13:21,276 --> 00:13:33,316 Speaker 1: named Prince Rakim Many Ladies. It was an attempt to 243 00:13:33,316 --> 00:13:37,556 Speaker 1: do something extremely commercial, totally inoffensive and upbeat, and also 244 00:13:37,636 --> 00:13:41,396 Speaker 1: fundamentally false and corny, and maybe for that reason it bombed. 245 00:13:43,076 --> 00:13:45,436 Speaker 1: Rizza got dropped from his label and he was back 246 00:13:45,516 --> 00:13:50,396 Speaker 1: to zero. That's when he started dealing drugs and almost 247 00:13:50,436 --> 00:13:54,396 Speaker 1: went to prison for attempted murder. He argued self defense 248 00:13:54,476 --> 00:13:56,756 Speaker 1: and beat the charges in the end, and he had 249 00:13:56,876 --> 00:14:00,676 Speaker 1: ten thousand dollars left. It was enough to buy some 250 00:14:00,756 --> 00:14:03,516 Speaker 1: drugs and sell them. But he had a kid on 251 00:14:03,516 --> 00:14:06,396 Speaker 1: the way. He had to make a choice, and this 252 00:14:06,516 --> 00:14:09,836 Speaker 1: choice became so legendary that he's still talking about it. 253 00:14:11,116 --> 00:14:13,476 Speaker 1: Here he is on a recent episode of a podcast 254 00:14:13,516 --> 00:14:15,716 Speaker 1: called Flagrant. 255 00:14:15,956 --> 00:14:19,356 Speaker 3: I had tay k and the gag was, uh, the 256 00:14:19,396 --> 00:14:22,836 Speaker 3: plan was to get a brick, so so we figured, oh. 257 00:14:22,676 --> 00:14:25,676 Speaker 7: If we flipped this twenty, we could at least get eighty. 258 00:14:26,636 --> 00:14:29,516 Speaker 3: The thing was, Joe I had a baby in a 259 00:14:29,596 --> 00:14:32,996 Speaker 3: oven or maybe just born right so life was like 260 00:14:33,276 --> 00:14:34,076 Speaker 3: what are you going to do? 261 00:14:34,236 --> 00:14:34,396 Speaker 4: Yeah? 262 00:14:36,116 --> 00:14:36,956 Speaker 1: But then. 263 00:14:38,236 --> 00:14:40,916 Speaker 3: I was like, nah, I have a second chance. 264 00:14:42,156 --> 00:14:45,436 Speaker 1: That's when he started calling himself Rizza r z A. 265 00:14:46,396 --> 00:14:49,396 Speaker 1: He would later say it was short for rakeem zig 266 00:14:49,516 --> 00:14:53,516 Speaker 1: zag zig allah. While everyone else zigged, it was time 267 00:14:53,596 --> 00:14:56,956 Speaker 1: for him to zag. And so, living on a Staten 268 00:14:56,956 --> 00:14:59,156 Speaker 1: Island that was in the middle of its own very 269 00:14:59,156 --> 00:15:02,396 Speaker 1: big zag, he began to make a bold plan for 270 00:15:02,436 --> 00:15:07,436 Speaker 1: an independence movement of his own, something called Wu Tang Clan. 271 00:15:23,676 --> 00:15:26,916 Speaker 1: After he beat his charges, Bobby Diggs aka the Rizza, 272 00:15:27,236 --> 00:15:31,036 Speaker 1: began to walk around Staten Island and he started to 273 00:15:31,116 --> 00:15:34,756 Speaker 1: take these long, drawn out walks day after day. 274 00:15:35,756 --> 00:15:38,956 Speaker 3: So I'm walking and I'm thinking, y'o, and I'm walking 275 00:15:38,996 --> 00:15:41,276 Speaker 3: off ste I'll walking the stand and people people thought 276 00:15:41,596 --> 00:15:43,556 Speaker 3: there was a long this, people who thought I was 277 00:15:43,556 --> 00:15:47,316 Speaker 3: losing my mind because I'm walking and I'm talking to myself. 278 00:15:51,156 --> 00:15:54,596 Speaker 1: He would walk the island and think Staten Island was 279 00:15:54,636 --> 00:15:57,796 Speaker 1: more than twice the size of Manhattan, and Rizza could 280 00:15:57,836 --> 00:16:00,996 Speaker 1: just walk and walk. He would start at the projects 281 00:16:01,036 --> 00:16:04,116 Speaker 1: on the north shore, then maybe journey along the coastline 282 00:16:04,516 --> 00:16:11,916 Speaker 1: through the suburban streets. Rizza was ready to make music again. 283 00:16:12,436 --> 00:16:14,916 Speaker 1: But the first time out with his Prince Rakim project 284 00:16:15,236 --> 00:16:18,396 Speaker 1: had gone badly. But the idea he was coming up 285 00:16:18,436 --> 00:16:21,356 Speaker 1: with now was going to be different. And I want 286 00:16:21,356 --> 00:16:23,436 Speaker 1: to argue here that it has everything to do with 287 00:16:23,516 --> 00:16:27,396 Speaker 1: Staten Island. Let me share with you some writing from 288 00:16:27,476 --> 00:16:32,036 Speaker 1: Rizz's book The Tao of Wu. I spent my formative 289 00:16:32,116 --> 00:16:35,796 Speaker 1: years on an island, Staten Island, which is a blessing 290 00:16:35,836 --> 00:16:39,956 Speaker 1: I've taken with me through life in Staten Island. Wu 291 00:16:39,996 --> 00:16:42,796 Speaker 1: Tang were set apart from all the influences and fads 292 00:16:42,796 --> 00:16:46,156 Speaker 1: that were happening in the other four boroughs. A nine 293 00:16:46,196 --> 00:16:49,116 Speaker 1: man hip hop crew based on mathematics, chess, comics and 294 00:16:49,196 --> 00:16:51,796 Speaker 1: kung fuflicks wasn't springing up in the middle of a 295 00:16:51,836 --> 00:16:56,396 Speaker 1: Manhattan art scene. Only on a remote island can something 296 00:16:56,556 --> 00:17:02,756 Speaker 1: like King Kong grow to his full capacity. But the 297 00:17:02,836 --> 00:17:05,516 Speaker 1: projects in Staten Island were a difficult place to live. 298 00:17:06,276 --> 00:17:08,316 Speaker 1: A few of the Wu Tang members have written books, 299 00:17:08,796 --> 00:17:11,116 Speaker 1: and reading them, it's clear that it wasn't just the 300 00:17:11,156 --> 00:17:13,396 Speaker 1: remoteness of Stadn Island that led them to the Wu 301 00:17:13,476 --> 00:17:17,916 Speaker 1: Tang clan. It was also what they experienced there, especially 302 00:17:17,916 --> 00:17:22,156 Speaker 1: in the projects. One Wu Tang member you, God wrote 303 00:17:22,156 --> 00:17:25,156 Speaker 1: about the first time he saw somebody die. He was 304 00:17:25,196 --> 00:17:28,236 Speaker 1: five years old, sitting with his mom listening to Loving 305 00:17:28,276 --> 00:17:32,236 Speaker 1: You by Minnie Ripperton play on the radio outside. When 306 00:17:32,236 --> 00:17:34,316 Speaker 1: he heard a crowd forming in the courtyard. He ran 307 00:17:34,316 --> 00:17:37,636 Speaker 1: out to look. A woman was standing on the roof screaming. 308 00:17:38,356 --> 00:17:42,116 Speaker 1: He watched so long his neck one stiff. Then she 309 00:17:42,236 --> 00:17:45,756 Speaker 1: jumped or fell, you, God wrote in his book called 310 00:17:45,876 --> 00:17:49,476 Speaker 1: Raw I was a toddler. The sound of her hitting 311 00:17:49,556 --> 00:17:54,636 Speaker 1: the concrete steps would resonate with me forever. So when 312 00:17:54,716 --> 00:17:58,116 Speaker 1: Rizzo walked Staaten Island, it wasn't just this utopian vision 313 00:17:58,156 --> 00:18:00,956 Speaker 1: of the isolated island where you can dream big. It 314 00:18:01,036 --> 00:18:04,116 Speaker 1: was also the deeply segregated place where kids living on 315 00:18:04,156 --> 00:18:06,956 Speaker 1: their own little island watched adults fall to their death, 316 00:18:07,676 --> 00:18:12,596 Speaker 1: a kind of paradox. And my theory is that paradox 317 00:18:12,756 --> 00:18:18,676 Speaker 1: was expressed in the word Shao Lim. 318 00:18:18,796 --> 00:18:20,956 Speaker 3: Yeah. 319 00:18:20,996 --> 00:18:23,196 Speaker 1: When Rizza was a kid, he and his cousin used 320 00:18:23,236 --> 00:18:26,596 Speaker 1: to go to a Times Square porno theater. Sometimes it 321 00:18:26,676 --> 00:18:30,476 Speaker 1: showed kung Fu and one movie that they loved, in particular, 322 00:18:31,036 --> 00:18:33,316 Speaker 1: the thirty sixth Chamber of Shao Lim. 323 00:18:33,956 --> 00:18:36,876 Speaker 8: But sure or a man choose ah well armed what 324 00:18:37,036 --> 00:18:37,636 Speaker 8: can we do? 325 00:18:38,036 --> 00:18:40,196 Speaker 7: No man, so we he cannot help. 326 00:18:41,196 --> 00:18:43,436 Speaker 1: Most people came to that Times Square movie theater to 327 00:18:43,516 --> 00:18:46,476 Speaker 1: jerk off, sniff glue, or shoot heroin. But Riza would 328 00:18:46,556 --> 00:18:48,756 Speaker 1: later say in interviews that he and his cousin were 329 00:18:48,836 --> 00:18:51,916 Speaker 1: locked in on this poorly dubbed movie about a small 330 00:18:52,036 --> 00:18:55,156 Speaker 1: village in China that was being oppressed by a distant government. 331 00:18:55,916 --> 00:18:58,796 Speaker 1: The hero of the movie is a villager who journeys 332 00:18:58,836 --> 00:19:02,156 Speaker 1: to the Shaolin temple in China to learn to fight back. 333 00:19:03,396 --> 00:19:08,756 Speaker 1: Riza saw this movie over three hundred times. He hadn't 334 00:19:08,756 --> 00:19:12,596 Speaker 1: realized that kind of oppression happened to people who weren't black. 335 00:19:14,036 --> 00:19:16,356 Speaker 1: This is from the thirty six Chamber when our hero 336 00:19:16,476 --> 00:19:18,356 Speaker 1: learns what Shao Lin is. 337 00:19:18,516 --> 00:19:20,116 Speaker 2: Shallin's school is restricted. 338 00:19:21,476 --> 00:19:25,516 Speaker 8: Only monks had taught that if Shaolin techniques could be 339 00:19:25,556 --> 00:19:28,756 Speaker 8: taught here and the people could use it to fight 340 00:19:28,796 --> 00:19:31,076 Speaker 8: the Manchu troops, that would be good. 341 00:19:31,956 --> 00:19:35,036 Speaker 1: At some point, Rizaz started to call Staten Island Shao Lin, 342 00:19:35,676 --> 00:19:38,476 Speaker 1: the place he learned his secret weapon to fighting oppression 343 00:19:38,556 --> 00:19:42,076 Speaker 1: hip hop but Staten Island was also a version of 344 00:19:42,076 --> 00:19:45,996 Speaker 1: that distant oppressive government he saw in the films, and 345 00:19:46,076 --> 00:19:47,996 Speaker 1: as he walked the Island trying to come up with 346 00:19:48,036 --> 00:19:50,676 Speaker 1: his next play. He didn't decide to start a group 347 00:19:50,756 --> 00:19:53,636 Speaker 1: called the Shaolin Clan. He came up with an idea 348 00:19:53,716 --> 00:19:58,156 Speaker 1: for something called the Wu Tang Clan, named after Shaolin's rival. 349 00:19:59,076 --> 00:20:01,516 Speaker 1: This is from another kung fu movie they loved, called 350 00:20:01,636 --> 00:20:03,396 Speaker 1: Shao Lin Versus Wu Tang. 351 00:20:03,916 --> 00:20:05,636 Speaker 2: Isn't it true that you think you are better than us, 352 00:20:05,716 --> 00:20:07,396 Speaker 2: but you're afraid that one day the Wu Tang will 353 00:20:07,436 --> 00:20:07,996 Speaker 2: overtake you? 354 00:20:07,836 --> 00:20:09,796 Speaker 6: You till you use your special points, gonna get rid 355 00:20:09,796 --> 00:20:11,156 Speaker 6: of by master who was your biggest threat. 356 00:20:11,196 --> 00:20:12,676 Speaker 7: On said, no, it isn't I saw it with my 357 00:20:12,716 --> 00:20:14,796 Speaker 7: own eyes. Since Chao Lyn, I'm afraid of the. 358 00:20:14,796 --> 00:20:17,716 Speaker 4: Wu Tang Wu Tang will find Listen to me, someone 359 00:20:17,796 --> 00:20:18,636 Speaker 4: is trying to frame me. 360 00:20:21,196 --> 00:20:26,236 Speaker 1: Rizza kept walking and thinking Chao Lin Wu Tang thirty 361 00:20:26,276 --> 00:20:32,876 Speaker 1: six Chambers Shall Lin Wu Tang thirty six Chambers. Wu 362 00:20:32,956 --> 00:20:36,556 Speaker 1: Tang biographer Skiz Fernando knew all about those walks Rizza 363 00:20:36,556 --> 00:20:36,996 Speaker 1: would take. 364 00:20:37,996 --> 00:20:40,516 Speaker 5: That's one good thing about Staten Island. You can walk 365 00:20:40,556 --> 00:20:45,436 Speaker 5: around in these nice neighborhoods with like Victorian mansions. You 366 00:20:45,436 --> 00:20:49,556 Speaker 5: don't have to worry about getting mugged necessarily and. 367 00:20:49,556 --> 00:20:51,476 Speaker 1: What would have been on the lawns of all those 368 00:20:51,556 --> 00:20:55,796 Speaker 1: Victorian mansions. Rizza was walking by signs that said vote 369 00:20:55,916 --> 00:20:58,836 Speaker 1: yes for the City of Staten Island, secession means a 370 00:20:58,876 --> 00:21:03,116 Speaker 1: better life, billboards for secession above the streets, the same 371 00:21:03,196 --> 00:21:05,276 Speaker 1: thing as was on the front page of the paper 372 00:21:05,316 --> 00:21:08,636 Speaker 1: all the time, the same thing the NAACP of Staten 373 00:21:08,676 --> 00:21:11,916 Speaker 1: Island was hosting meetings about, worrying that this could be 374 00:21:11,956 --> 00:21:15,916 Speaker 1: really bad for black people living on Staten Island. Let 375 00:21:15,956 --> 00:21:19,036 Speaker 1: me be clear, I have never found Riza himself talking 376 00:21:19,076 --> 00:21:22,356 Speaker 1: about Staten Island secession, but in my kasbon mode I 377 00:21:22,476 --> 00:21:25,956 Speaker 1: see a connection. Because as he walked a Staten Island 378 00:21:25,956 --> 00:21:28,196 Speaker 1: that felt like it wasn't welcome in New York City 379 00:21:28,436 --> 00:21:31,156 Speaker 1: and was striking out on its own, this guy, who 380 00:21:31,156 --> 00:21:33,596 Speaker 1: would have every reason not to feel welcome on Staten 381 00:21:33,636 --> 00:21:36,636 Speaker 1: Island formed a plan for an unlikely hip hop group 382 00:21:36,676 --> 00:21:40,796 Speaker 1: from Shaolin that was about to do the same. Maybe 383 00:21:40,956 --> 00:21:43,596 Speaker 1: he thought they could skip the whole major label thing 384 00:21:43,636 --> 00:21:46,356 Speaker 1: that had screwed him before. Maybe he didn't have to 385 00:21:46,396 --> 00:21:50,316 Speaker 1: sanitize his life and character to succeed. Maybe there could 386 00:21:50,356 --> 00:21:52,956 Speaker 1: be a hip hop group from the forgotten borough that 387 00:21:53,036 --> 00:21:55,796 Speaker 1: made it all happen on its own, and that group 388 00:21:55,836 --> 00:22:00,276 Speaker 1: would be called Wu Tang Clan. He began to assemble 389 00:22:00,316 --> 00:22:03,676 Speaker 1: his crew, and the core ideology for Riza, I think 390 00:22:04,116 --> 00:22:06,516 Speaker 1: had a whole lot in common with the secession movement. 391 00:22:06,876 --> 00:22:11,596 Speaker 1: It's the exact same fantasy. If some central authority is 392 00:22:11,636 --> 00:22:14,236 Speaker 1: dominating you and you don't like it, what do you do? 393 00:22:15,156 --> 00:22:18,636 Speaker 1: Go away to shoolin, learn the truth, build a movement, 394 00:22:19,196 --> 00:22:22,276 Speaker 1: and go to war with the oppressor till you remake 395 00:22:22,316 --> 00:22:37,636 Speaker 1: it in your own image. Let me put my kasavon 396 00:22:37,796 --> 00:22:40,196 Speaker 1: robe back on and bring you back into my library. 397 00:22:40,556 --> 00:22:45,516 Speaker 1: Please sit at the table, have a mug of tepid tea. 398 00:22:45,636 --> 00:22:48,436 Speaker 1: I believe that the fantasy Wu Tang Clan had was 399 00:22:48,476 --> 00:22:50,356 Speaker 1: that there's a way to strike out on your own, 400 00:22:50,396 --> 00:22:53,956 Speaker 1: independently and take over the forces that oppressed you. And 401 00:22:53,996 --> 00:22:57,596 Speaker 1: that's the exact fantasy of the secessionists emanating from the 402 00:22:57,716 --> 00:23:00,636 Speaker 1: exact remote island at the exact moment. So many people 403 00:23:00,676 --> 00:23:04,516 Speaker 1: on the island experienced it, and it was the spirit 404 00:23:04,636 --> 00:23:07,876 Speaker 1: of what skiz that Wu Tang biographer told me that 405 00:23:07,996 --> 00:23:08,476 Speaker 1: Riza did. 406 00:23:08,516 --> 00:23:12,516 Speaker 5: Next, he took the whole mythology that was in the 407 00:23:12,596 --> 00:23:19,676 Speaker 5: movies and he appropriated it to his current conditions of 408 00:23:21,476 --> 00:23:27,116 Speaker 5: a black man living in Staten Island doing battle in 409 00:23:27,196 --> 00:23:30,556 Speaker 5: this game called rap against the music industry. 410 00:23:31,516 --> 00:23:33,956 Speaker 1: Walking the island, Rizza had come up with a five 411 00:23:34,036 --> 00:23:37,756 Speaker 1: year plan. He'd go to the greatest underrated mcs he 412 00:23:37,836 --> 00:23:40,116 Speaker 1: knew on the island and banned them together into the 413 00:23:40,156 --> 00:23:43,116 Speaker 1: Wu Tang clan. He'd been burned by the labels before 414 00:23:43,196 --> 00:23:45,796 Speaker 1: with that Prince Rackim album, so now he wanted to 415 00:23:45,796 --> 00:23:48,876 Speaker 1: go it alone. He'd take the ten thousand dollars he'd 416 00:23:48,916 --> 00:23:51,596 Speaker 1: saved and use it to start a production company. 417 00:23:52,236 --> 00:23:55,756 Speaker 5: These guys had absolutely no future. They're all caught up 418 00:23:55,796 --> 00:23:59,996 Speaker 5: in the street game. They're all selling crack, you know, 419 00:24:00,516 --> 00:24:04,236 Speaker 5: two for five on the street. They didn't want to 420 00:24:04,276 --> 00:24:04,796 Speaker 5: be doing that. 421 00:24:06,196 --> 00:24:08,676 Speaker 1: The guys all went out to a diner on Staten Island. 422 00:24:09,276 --> 00:24:12,436 Speaker 1: They toasted Wu Tang with a bottle of champagne. Each 423 00:24:12,436 --> 00:24:15,516 Speaker 1: member put up one hundred dollars for studio time. The 424 00:24:15,556 --> 00:24:18,756 Speaker 1: next day they started recording what became their first single, 425 00:24:19,316 --> 00:24:25,836 Speaker 1: protect Yanik. Putting eight mcs on a track and making 426 00:24:25,876 --> 00:24:28,676 Speaker 1: it all blend together is as difficult as making five 427 00:24:28,716 --> 00:24:31,996 Speaker 1: Burrows feel like one city. The difference is that Rizza 428 00:24:32,356 --> 00:24:34,996 Speaker 1: was about to pull it off. It took days of 429 00:24:35,036 --> 00:24:38,716 Speaker 1: recording until all the verses were in place. Like students 430 00:24:38,756 --> 00:24:41,956 Speaker 1: at Shaolin and Wu Tang, each MC was trying to 431 00:24:41,956 --> 00:24:45,156 Speaker 1: one up the other, pushing farther and farther beyond the 432 00:24:45,196 --> 00:24:47,356 Speaker 1: reaches of what existed in hip hop at the time. 433 00:24:47,996 --> 00:24:50,556 Speaker 1: Rizza knew each one's style and how to draw out 434 00:24:50,556 --> 00:24:53,356 Speaker 1: what made them unique. It was the opposite of some 435 00:24:53,436 --> 00:24:56,276 Speaker 1: oppressive label telling him we think girls will like you 436 00:24:56,636 --> 00:25:00,276 Speaker 1: and neutering his art. He didn't need the label. By 437 00:25:00,316 --> 00:25:03,836 Speaker 1: December of nineteen ninety two, the song was finished. The 438 00:25:03,876 --> 00:25:06,516 Speaker 1: group took the cassette of Protect Yan Neck to the 439 00:25:06,556 --> 00:25:09,876 Speaker 1: hottest hip hop radio show in Town Stretch and Babido 440 00:25:10,556 --> 00:25:12,676 Speaker 1: Babido was alone in the studio. 441 00:25:13,716 --> 00:25:18,196 Speaker 7: I'm not quite sure how members of the Wu Tang 442 00:25:18,276 --> 00:25:22,996 Speaker 7: clan got into our hallway, but I hear a knock 443 00:25:23,076 --> 00:25:27,876 Speaker 7: on the studio door. I open it and there's five 444 00:25:27,996 --> 00:25:31,276 Speaker 7: dudes out there, and then, not smiling. 445 00:25:31,916 --> 00:25:34,116 Speaker 1: They shoved an unmarked record into his hands. 446 00:25:34,916 --> 00:25:37,436 Speaker 7: They're like, yo, man, yo, you got played this, You 447 00:25:37,476 --> 00:25:39,836 Speaker 7: got played yo, We played it right now. I was like, yo, 448 00:25:39,876 --> 00:25:41,916 Speaker 7: fella is like I can't. I felt like I was 449 00:25:41,956 --> 00:25:47,436 Speaker 7: being strong armed to play their record immediately I said. 450 00:25:47,516 --> 00:25:49,756 Speaker 1: I was like, all right, fella's cool. So I took 451 00:25:49,796 --> 00:25:51,916 Speaker 1: the record. I threw it all because I was. 452 00:25:51,796 --> 00:25:54,436 Speaker 7: I was intrigued. I was like, how did these dudes 453 00:25:54,516 --> 00:25:55,956 Speaker 7: mysteriously get into the studio. 454 00:25:56,956 --> 00:26:01,196 Speaker 1: He listened to it privately first. 455 00:25:59,916 --> 00:26:05,636 Speaker 7: And I hear the you know, the martial arts, and 456 00:26:05,676 --> 00:26:07,676 Speaker 7: I'm like, oh, this is this is dope. You know 457 00:26:08,316 --> 00:26:10,196 Speaker 7: I'm going to play it. 458 00:26:10,196 --> 00:26:12,516 Speaker 1: It was the premiere that launched the Wu Tang clan. 459 00:26:13,076 --> 00:26:15,716 Speaker 3: Tell me about the damn like tops in Pakistan, swinging 460 00:26:15,756 --> 00:26:18,036 Speaker 3: through your town like your neighborhood spot a man so 461 00:26:18,196 --> 00:26:19,836 Speaker 3: on TikTok ticket. 462 00:26:20,876 --> 00:26:24,676 Speaker 7: But yeah, I mean immediately the phone lines let up immediately. 463 00:26:24,836 --> 00:26:27,596 Speaker 7: I'll never forget my friend. He called up and was like, Yo, wow, 464 00:26:27,636 --> 00:26:28,836 Speaker 7: what that he is? 465 00:26:28,916 --> 00:26:29,196 Speaker 2: Dad? 466 00:26:29,316 --> 00:26:31,676 Speaker 7: I was like, Yo, I don't know, I don't know, 467 00:26:31,916 --> 00:26:32,916 Speaker 7: I don't know what the record is. 468 00:26:33,676 --> 00:26:33,996 Speaker 3: All right? 469 00:26:34,036 --> 00:26:36,156 Speaker 1: I love this song And my favorite part is the 470 00:26:36,156 --> 00:26:39,636 Speaker 1: final verse, when Jesse explains the entire philosophy of Wu 471 00:26:39,716 --> 00:26:43,036 Speaker 1: Tang is that they don't need some centralized music industry 472 00:26:43,036 --> 00:26:45,196 Speaker 1: to take over the world. They can do it all 473 00:26:45,236 --> 00:26:45,716 Speaker 1: on their own. 474 00:26:45,876 --> 00:26:48,196 Speaker 3: The woe was too slamming, but He's called chilling label, 475 00:26:48,276 --> 00:26:49,116 Speaker 3: so we had to hit. 476 00:26:49,236 --> 00:26:51,316 Speaker 4: Since a sing an't table, he doing one on a 477 00:26:51,356 --> 00:26:52,756 Speaker 4: sitting like Tang did table. 478 00:26:52,836 --> 00:26:55,236 Speaker 3: Now, any money's getting stuck to the gum under the table. 479 00:26:55,476 --> 00:26:58,076 Speaker 4: That's what you're getting when your mishoos what I advent 480 00:26:58,476 --> 00:26:59,196 Speaker 4: and Pia. 481 00:26:58,996 --> 00:27:03,156 Speaker 1: Falls in your Basically, you had your chance, you lost it. 482 00:27:03,516 --> 00:27:06,796 Speaker 1: We don't need you. It's our time now. The song 483 00:27:07,316 --> 00:27:07,876 Speaker 1: blew up. 484 00:27:08,236 --> 00:27:08,996 Speaker 4: You know what I want here? 485 00:27:09,196 --> 00:27:09,796 Speaker 1: What do you want here? 486 00:27:09,916 --> 00:27:13,836 Speaker 3: I want Wu Tang again. 487 00:27:17,196 --> 00:27:20,276 Speaker 1: So of course the labels came knocking. But this time 488 00:27:20,356 --> 00:27:23,596 Speaker 1: Rizza was ready no more Prince Rakim. He was the 489 00:27:23,716 --> 00:27:27,076 Speaker 1: king and he had a plan for world domination. They 490 00:27:27,076 --> 00:27:29,076 Speaker 1: would make a deal for Wu Tang as a group, 491 00:27:29,556 --> 00:27:33,476 Speaker 1: but he would do something totally unprecedented in the industry. 492 00:27:33,996 --> 00:27:36,796 Speaker 1: In the contract, there would be a clause though all 493 00:27:36,836 --> 00:27:39,476 Speaker 1: the mcs and Wu Tang might be consolidated under the 494 00:27:39,556 --> 00:27:42,156 Speaker 1: name Wu Tang Clan, and Wu Tang might sign a 495 00:27:42,196 --> 00:27:45,556 Speaker 1: record deal. Each MC was going to retain local control 496 00:27:45,756 --> 00:27:49,116 Speaker 1: of their own career. Each one could make any deal 497 00:27:49,156 --> 00:27:53,596 Speaker 1: he wanted with any other record label. Loud Records agreed 498 00:27:53,636 --> 00:27:58,356 Speaker 1: to Rizza's terms. Skiz Fernando again revolutionary deal in the 499 00:27:58,436 --> 00:27:59,276 Speaker 1: music industry. 500 00:27:59,436 --> 00:28:03,436 Speaker 5: The whole first round of Wu Tang solo albums was 501 00:28:03,516 --> 00:28:07,436 Speaker 5: like that, all on different labels and different artists, but 502 00:28:07,596 --> 00:28:12,076 Speaker 5: like all the wut It's on each album, so they're 503 00:28:12,196 --> 00:28:16,076 Speaker 5: using the major label system to spread their own brand 504 00:28:16,156 --> 00:28:18,156 Speaker 5: out there. That was the genius of it, Like no 505 00:28:18,156 --> 00:28:21,396 Speaker 5: one had ever done anything like that before. 506 00:28:22,516 --> 00:28:25,356 Speaker 1: On November ninth, Wu Tang Clan played their album release 507 00:28:25,396 --> 00:28:28,356 Speaker 1: show for Enter the Wu Tang thirty six Chambers at 508 00:28:28,356 --> 00:28:32,076 Speaker 1: Webster Hall in the heart of Manhattan. Skiz was there. 509 00:28:32,676 --> 00:28:37,756 Speaker 5: The floor was packed with people. They were showing thirty 510 00:28:37,796 --> 00:28:42,876 Speaker 5: six Chambers the original on the big screen, and then 511 00:28:43,796 --> 00:28:49,156 Speaker 5: when the group got on to perform, Honestly, it seemed 512 00:28:49,156 --> 00:28:52,836 Speaker 5: like all of Staten Island was on stage. You didn't 513 00:28:52,876 --> 00:28:55,036 Speaker 5: know who was in the group and who wasn't because 514 00:28:55,036 --> 00:28:58,716 Speaker 5: it was just like the whole stage was packed, The. 515 00:28:58,676 --> 00:29:00,316 Speaker 1: Whole floor was packed. 516 00:29:01,716 --> 00:29:06,276 Speaker 5: That whole floor was just bouncing up and down these 517 00:29:06,316 --> 00:29:09,356 Speaker 5: wooden rafters. I thought I thought the whole thing was 518 00:29:09,396 --> 00:29:12,756 Speaker 5: going to collapse. It was just like people were ready 519 00:29:12,756 --> 00:29:17,396 Speaker 5: to tear shit down. The energy, the excitement because they 520 00:29:17,436 --> 00:29:19,996 Speaker 5: came from Staten Island. It was like a sneak attack 521 00:29:20,476 --> 00:29:21,676 Speaker 5: like no one saw it coming. 522 00:29:22,516 --> 00:29:27,396 Speaker 1: Riza executed his plan flawlessly. Wu Tang released their debut album, 523 00:29:27,556 --> 00:29:31,236 Speaker 1: an absolutely bizarre hour long hip hop record full of 524 00:29:31,316 --> 00:29:34,836 Speaker 1: Kung Fu samples and weird jazz and nine unheard of mcs, 525 00:29:34,996 --> 00:29:38,076 Speaker 1: most of whom hailed from a forgotten island and island 526 00:29:38,396 --> 00:29:41,876 Speaker 1: they'd renamed after a Chinese martial arts school, and it 527 00:29:41,956 --> 00:29:45,956 Speaker 1: went quadruple platinum. Here's method Man on TV. 528 00:29:46,476 --> 00:29:48,756 Speaker 3: And we tried to lock down the industry, which you 529 00:29:48,796 --> 00:29:50,916 Speaker 3: cannot do because they already set in their ways, like 530 00:29:50,956 --> 00:29:52,916 Speaker 3: I said before, So what we have to do is 531 00:29:52,956 --> 00:29:54,716 Speaker 3: build our own industry to make it right. 532 00:29:56,996 --> 00:30:00,516 Speaker 1: And Rutang's still playing together. So for me, in this 533 00:30:00,596 --> 00:30:03,276 Speaker 1: series on Secession, it's a lesson than how to keep 534 00:30:03,316 --> 00:30:06,436 Speaker 1: a group of people together. Not that the clans without 535 00:30:06,476 --> 00:30:09,476 Speaker 1: its problems, but the genius of the whole thing is 536 00:30:09,516 --> 00:30:12,876 Speaker 1: that Riza figured out how to showcase each rapper's own 537 00:30:12,956 --> 00:30:17,076 Speaker 1: personality and give them their own career. He went on 538 00:30:17,156 --> 00:30:19,276 Speaker 1: to produce a round of solo albums for each of 539 00:30:19,316 --> 00:30:22,196 Speaker 1: the MC's in the group, hit after hit after hit, 540 00:30:22,556 --> 00:30:25,436 Speaker 1: each one on different record labels, who were feverishly trying 541 00:30:25,436 --> 00:30:28,276 Speaker 1: to ride the Wu Tang Wave, Method Man on def 542 00:30:28,356 --> 00:30:33,116 Speaker 1: Jam Platinum, Old Dirty Bastard on WMG Platinum, Rayquon on 543 00:30:33,316 --> 00:30:37,436 Speaker 1: RCA Platinum, ghost Face Killer on Epic Platinum, Jizz on 544 00:30:37,476 --> 00:30:42,716 Speaker 1: Geffen Gold. Six hit albums in three years. Wu Tang 545 00:30:42,796 --> 00:30:46,876 Speaker 1: clan ran the industry. These guys who had so much 546 00:30:46,916 --> 00:30:50,556 Speaker 1: working against them went to shoolin, came back on their 547 00:30:50,596 --> 00:30:52,836 Speaker 1: own terms and toppled the oppressor. 548 00:30:54,076 --> 00:30:56,956 Speaker 4: Don't think that because he has a solo deal and 549 00:30:56,996 --> 00:30:58,716 Speaker 4: I have a solo deal, this man may it a 550 00:30:58,756 --> 00:31:01,796 Speaker 4: solo deal that we all we all just separating and 551 00:31:01,836 --> 00:31:03,636 Speaker 4: breaking up. It's not that type of thing, man. We 552 00:31:03,796 --> 00:31:06,596 Speaker 4: just we just expanded because the talent is so great. 553 00:31:06,636 --> 00:31:08,956 Speaker 4: It's like we have we have mad talent in this, 554 00:31:09,276 --> 00:31:10,156 Speaker 4: you know, and we just. 555 00:31:10,036 --> 00:31:10,956 Speaker 5: Got to spread out. 556 00:31:11,436 --> 00:31:13,276 Speaker 4: You know, you can't come out on one chain when 557 00:31:13,276 --> 00:31:22,076 Speaker 4: you just got to spread. 558 00:31:18,236 --> 00:31:22,636 Speaker 1: This is the fantasy of secession. You break away, you 559 00:31:22,716 --> 00:31:24,836 Speaker 1: come back with a crew of guys from Staten Island 560 00:31:25,196 --> 00:31:28,236 Speaker 1: and you dominate. That's what Wu Tang did. That's what 561 00:31:28,276 --> 00:31:32,116 Speaker 1: the Staten Island secessionists dreamed of doing. It's the zeitgeist, 562 00:31:32,196 --> 00:31:35,036 Speaker 1: the key to all mythologies. Some force in the early 563 00:31:35,116 --> 00:31:39,516 Speaker 1: nineties of New York City was shouting secede, secede. Oh. 564 00:31:39,556 --> 00:31:43,556 Speaker 1: And by the way, the vote on secession it happened 565 00:31:43,596 --> 00:31:47,036 Speaker 1: seven days before the Wu Tang Clan put out their album, 566 00:31:47,236 --> 00:31:49,716 Speaker 1: and that vote was going to leave an even bigger 567 00:31:49,756 --> 00:31:53,836 Speaker 1: mark on our world today. That's coming up on the 568 00:31:53,916 --> 00:31:56,676 Speaker 1: last episode of The Staten Island. 569 00:31:56,316 --> 00:32:01,036 Speaker 5: Problem live here on Channel seventy seven from Secession headquarters 570 00:32:01,036 --> 00:32:03,836 Speaker 5: at the Island Chateau, Channel seventy seven, bringing you that 571 00:32:03,916 --> 00:32:07,316 Speaker 5: live happening as we do. It's so parallel. 572 00:32:07,636 --> 00:32:10,916 Speaker 7: Who gets to be in this position? What's fair and 573 00:32:11,036 --> 00:32:11,396 Speaker 7: what's not? 574 00:32:11,836 --> 00:32:12,956 Speaker 9: Who gets to wheel power? 575 00:32:12,996 --> 00:32:13,556 Speaker 7: Who doesn't? 576 00:32:14,356 --> 00:32:19,436 Speaker 9: These sentiments show up in so many places and parts 577 00:32:19,476 --> 00:32:26,036 Speaker 9: of our population right that sense of low boiling resentment 578 00:32:26,156 --> 00:32:31,276 Speaker 9: towards the people in charge, Like who doesn't feel that? 579 00:32:31,436 --> 00:32:34,996 Speaker 4: Right now? Do you realize as a city that can 580 00:32:34,996 --> 00:32:37,116 Speaker 4: plan for its own and that doesn't have to say 581 00:32:37,116 --> 00:32:39,196 Speaker 4: may I, may I do this and may I do that? 582 00:32:39,596 --> 00:32:40,596 Speaker 5: Where are we going? 583 00:32:41,436 --> 00:32:43,636 Speaker 1: What are we standing on top of? Right now? 584 00:32:43,876 --> 00:32:46,436 Speaker 8: We're standing on the story of New York City. If 585 00:32:46,476 --> 00:32:48,476 Speaker 8: you lived here between nineteen forty eight and two thousand 586 00:32:48,516 --> 00:32:51,916 Speaker 8: and one, you're here somewhere, maybe not in this exact mount, 587 00:32:52,036 --> 00:32:54,916 Speaker 8: but some piece of you, even if you just passed through, 588 00:32:54,996 --> 00:32:57,276 Speaker 8: some piece of you is underneath us. 589 00:33:05,356 --> 00:33:07,756 Speaker 1: The Staten Island Problem is written and produced by me 590 00:33:08,116 --> 00:33:11,596 Speaker 1: then mat of Haffrey, with Lucy Sullivan and Nina Bird Lawrence. 591 00:33:12,396 --> 00:33:16,476 Speaker 1: Our editor is Karen Schakerji. Our executive producer is Jacob Smith. 592 00:33:16,916 --> 00:33:20,236 Speaker 1: Fact checking by Sam Russick, Sound design and mastering by 593 00:33:20,276 --> 00:33:25,356 Speaker 1: Jake Gorsky. Original music by Stellwagon, Symfinette, Luis Gara, Jake Gorsky, 594 00:33:25,636 --> 00:33:28,196 Speaker 1: and thanks to Todd Reynolds for his track The Solution 595 00:33:28,476 --> 00:33:32,716 Speaker 1: from the album Outer Borrow Special thanks to Malcolm Gladwell. 596 00:33:33,396 --> 00:33:35,796 Speaker 1: I'm Ben Mattahaffrey