Speaker 1: The Dream Team Tapes Season two. Kobe, Lebron and the
Speaker 1: Redeem Team is a production of Diversion Podcasts in association
Speaker 1: with I Heart Radio Diversion Podcasts. By now you know
Speaker 1: our intro Jerry Colangelo with soundbites from Kobe Bryant, Lebron James,
Speaker 1: and Carmelo Anthony. But this time we're gonna change it up.
Speaker 1: Here's USA Basketball Boss Jerry Colangelo announcing the full roster
Speaker 1: for the two thousand and eight Olympic Team. The twelve
Speaker 1: players selected for the honor of representing the United States
Speaker 1: in the two thousand and eight Beijing Olympic Games are
Speaker 1: Carmelo Anthony of the Denver Nuggets, Carlos Boozer of the
Speaker 1: Utah Jazz, Chris Bosh of the Toronto Raptors, Kobe Bryant
Speaker 1: of the Los Angeles Lakers, Dwight Howard Orlando Magic, Lebron
Speaker 1: James Cleveland Cavaliers, Jason Kidd Dallas Mavericks, Chris Paul New
Speaker 1: Orleans Hornets, Tayshawn Prince Detroit Pistons, Michael Read Milwaukee Bucks,
Speaker 1: Dwyane Wade Miami Heat, and Darren Williams Utah Jazz, and
Speaker 1: I'm j A. Dande joined by Jack McCallum, and this
Speaker 1: is episode nine of Kobe Lebron and the Redeemed Team.
Speaker 1: We're calling it Cruising and Snoozing Teamy to say, cruises
Speaker 1: through pool play at the Olympic Games and one assistant
Speaker 1: coach has trouble staying awake. But Jack, let's start with
Speaker 1: a quick look at the top of the roster that
Speaker 1: Chalangelo just gave it, and it had ten members of
Speaker 1: the two thousand and eight All Star teams there, so
Speaker 1: this this elite crop of players from the NBA. Of course,
Speaker 1: she had Kobe, who was the reigning m v P
Speaker 1: it just won his first and only m v P
Speaker 1: award earlier that spring, and then he would go on
Speaker 1: to win the next two NBA finals MVPs Lebron James,
Speaker 1: who would win the next two MVP awards. The Most
Speaker 1: Valuable Player in two thousand nine in Chris Paul, who
Speaker 1: was the MVP runner up in two thousand and eight.
Speaker 1: He led the NBA and win shares in two thousand
Speaker 1: eight for the analytics crowd. He also led the league
Speaker 1: and assistant steals in two thousand nine. H Dwyane Wade
Speaker 1: the two thousand six NBA Finals m v P the
Speaker 1: NBA's leading score the season. After the Olympics in two
Speaker 1: thousand eight oh nine and Dwight Howard. We forget about
Speaker 1: the impact of Dwight Howard and how coveted he was
Speaker 1: at that time. He was in the top five and
Speaker 1: m VP voting every year from two thousand and eight,
Speaker 1: Ton culminating as the runner up for the m v
Speaker 1: P inn that award went to Derrick Rose, and after
Speaker 1: these Olympics he wins the next three Defensive Player of
Speaker 1: the Year awards. So, Jack, that's a sense for the
Speaker 1: star power at the top of this roster. And I mean,
Speaker 1: if you look at it, it's this is the elite
Speaker 1: of the NBA at that time. A couple of things
Speaker 1: strike me there, j And the first thing is, since
Speaker 1: we make so many references to the the Dream Team,
Speaker 1: if you took the top three players on a dream
Speaker 1: team were uh, Jordan's Bird, Magic, but not at that time.
Speaker 1: You know, Burden Bird retired the season after and Magic
Speaker 1: was close to the end of his career. So I
Speaker 1: would say the top three players on that team at
Speaker 1: the time they were playing, you could disagree or agree with,
Speaker 1: was Michael h Scottie Pippen, and Charles Barkley. We're gonna
Speaker 1: get into later whether the Redeemed came, of course a
Speaker 1: hopeless hypothetical. Could the redeem Team beat the Dream Team?
Speaker 1: But could Superman beat up Batman? But you know, we love,
Speaker 1: we love hypotheticals. Kobe Lebron and d Wade at the
Speaker 1: top of this roster, that might be better. We don't
Speaker 1: have time to deconstruct that because you do have the
Speaker 1: Jordan's factor perhaps overweighing everything. But that's the first thing
Speaker 1: that strikes me. The second Jay and I didn't remember
Speaker 1: this till you, God bless you did the research. Chris
Speaker 1: Paul m v P runner up in two thousand eight,
Speaker 1: and uh, there's only been one m v P six
Speaker 1: ft m v P in the history of the league,
Speaker 1: and that was of course Alan Iverson to win runner
Speaker 1: up of the m v P in in that time.
Speaker 1: And to think of what a defensive presents Chris Paul
Speaker 1: might be the best small defender, uh, in the history
Speaker 1: of the league. And we're gonna see he was very
Speaker 1: important to this team. But that really stuck out to me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and and later he would go on to defend Kevin
Speaker 1: Durant in playoff games. I remember one time there was
Speaker 1: a Clipper Oklahoma City Thunder series and they switched Chris
Speaker 1: Paul on the Durant and he defended him effectively and
Speaker 1: they come back in the fourth quarter and win that game.
Speaker 1: Also amazingly successful at winning jump balls. Regardless of who
Speaker 1: he was up against, he would win jump balls. And
Speaker 1: I was thinking about this last night Jack before we
Speaker 1: recorded this, about how Chris Paul. No, he hasn't won
Speaker 1: a championship, but the number of playoff games he won
Speaker 1: has to count for something. And we look at the
Speaker 1: impact he's had, uh as we're taping as the last
Speaker 1: couple of seasons with Oklahoma City, going there and then
Speaker 1: coming to Phoenix and turning these teams that were not
Speaker 1: really playoff contenders into playoff contenders and winning more playoff games,
Speaker 1: and that has to count for something. He he doesn't
Speaker 1: have all the hardware that some of the other guys
Speaker 1: on his team had or would go on to have,
Speaker 1: but this guy did a lot of winning and put
Speaker 1: up a lot of impressive statistics. Yeah, Lebron, you know
Speaker 1: we're recording this as Lebron's in the middle of an
Speaker 1: injury and you don't know what's going to happen out
Speaker 1: in that Western Conference. But you're right. I mean Chris Paul, uh,
Speaker 1: he is really an elevator and I will always have
Speaker 1: a soft spot for m J. I was working on
Speaker 1: the story about twelve thirteen years ago. I had this
Speaker 1: idea to do a story on last second shots, how
Speaker 1: they're set up, who, what the strategy is. Does the
Speaker 1: same guy always take him? And I don't. I can't
Speaker 1: remember why I picked going to New Orleans. And I'll
Speaker 1: be damned if Chris doesn't hit a second shot. I mean,
Speaker 1: that never works out when you have this kind of
Speaker 1: there's your lead, right, you had your lead. Oh man,
Speaker 1: I walked into the locker room. I'll never forget this
Speaker 1: Chris Paul like as this big smile. I knew because
Speaker 1: I had talked to him before the game about it,
Speaker 1: and it was pretty extraordinary. I want to ask you
Speaker 1: one other thing, though, about Dwight Howard and what you
Speaker 1: just said about him. This is on me a little bit,
Speaker 1: I guess I never I've never seen a great player
Speaker 1: with great numbers who's been as kind of roundly trashed
Speaker 1: as Dwight, and I've sort of. And and by the way,
Speaker 1: he's still playing and now he's you know, still contributing
Speaker 1: with the seventies sixers. And he stayed down long enough,
Speaker 1: I think to be become likable. Like I think, think
Speaker 1: about how acrimonious the split was when he left the Lakers,
Speaker 1: and they loved him in the twenties twenties season. Laker
Speaker 1: fans loved him when he came back and helped them
Speaker 1: win a championship. You know, he's he's a guy that's
Speaker 1: better suited apparently as as the as a supporting cast.
Speaker 1: He he wasn't quite cut out to be the guy.
Speaker 1: But even though he had monster numbers, you know, he
Speaker 1: was a ay, I think he was twenty two and
Speaker 1: fourteen guy the season of the redeemed team. But as
Speaker 1: we're gonna see in these games, we're gonna talk about
Speaker 1: it a little bit. Um he's not He doesn't assume
Speaker 1: like a back to the basket, throw it into him
Speaker 1: position because he never had sort of a signature move
Speaker 1: and he couldn't really face up, and you couldn't you know,
Speaker 1: and you couldn't put him at the free throw line.
Speaker 1: So maybe all those reasons I'm sort of doing a
Speaker 1: maya culpan. Now, I really was not kind to Dwight Howard,
Speaker 1: but I'm looking at these numbers you've dug up, and
Speaker 1: I guess I should have been a nicer guy to him. Well,
Speaker 1: for some reason, we didn't let him do By we,
Speaker 1: I mean the media and the fans and social media,
Speaker 1: we just didn't let him be himself. And he was
Speaker 1: an outsized personality, and he did like to have fun.
Speaker 1: And he's the type of guy that would go over
Speaker 1: and as he's on his way to check it into
Speaker 1: the game, maybe there's a fan sitting courtside with a
Speaker 1: tub of popcorn, and he would reach in and grab
Speaker 1: some popcorn, and we'd also, what are you doing. You're
Speaker 1: you can't be grabbing popcorn and you've got a game
Speaker 1: to play. But if Lebron did something like that, would say, oh,
Speaker 1: look at Lebron interacting with the fans right right right.
Speaker 1: And and so his his goofiness, his playfulness, And we
Speaker 1: asked that of our athletes, and we want them to
Speaker 1: be characters. We don't want them to be robots. And
Speaker 1: here he was not only a player with the personality,
Speaker 1: a big man with the personality, with the playful personality,
Speaker 1: which the lack of that playful personality had gotten everyone
Speaker 1: from wil Chamberlain the Kareem Abdul Jabbar on the wrong
Speaker 1: side of the ledger with the fans and media right
Speaker 1: and and he did so many things that we asked
Speaker 1: of everyone else. But when Dwight Howard did it, for
Speaker 1: some reason, everybody turned on him and hated for it,
Speaker 1: in part because Jack he didn't have the results first.
Speaker 1: And remember Lebron was hated for a year, and then
Speaker 1: he goes to Miami, and well, he was hated when
Speaker 1: he went to Miami, and then he wins a championship
Speaker 1: and the playful aspect of him comes back and everyone
Speaker 1: loved him. And remember the time a fan hits a
Speaker 1: half court shot and Lebron comes running out the out
Speaker 1: of the heat huddle and he tackles him at half court.
Speaker 1: And if he had done that a year earlier, everyone
Speaker 1: probably would have said, why wasn't he in the huddle
Speaker 1: listening to the coach poster drop of play? And instead
Speaker 1: he does this, and it's like, oh, look at Lebron,
Speaker 1: He's having fun. Isn't this great? And it Dwight is
Speaker 1: really a lesson in how we allow some people to
Speaker 1: do things that we don't allow others to do. That's true,
Speaker 1: I will, I will, I will accept that, but I'll
Speaker 1: still never love him. But go ahead, move on, move on,
Speaker 1: Let's talk about Lebron. Speaking of Lebron. To watch Lebron
Speaker 1: at this stage in his career, Jack, if you remember,
Speaker 1: it was just breathtaking. And I'm sure you had the
Speaker 1: opportunity as I did. I was fortunate enough to be
Speaker 1: able to watch him from either courtside or near the court,
Speaker 1: and taking advantage of our press passes, we got the
Speaker 1: chance to see up close a man that big, move
Speaker 1: that fast. And when I used to try to urge
Speaker 1: people to see Lebron, if at all possible, at whatever costs,
Speaker 1: to see him in person, to try to if you
Speaker 1: could obtain a good seat, to see him in person,
Speaker 1: because that was a phenomenon unlike anything else I've seen
Speaker 1: in my two plus decades covering league. I'm wondering if
Speaker 1: you can compare to anything. And you're with three four
Speaker 1: decades of cover in the NBA, maybe five, but we'll
Speaker 1: leave it at for No, there's nothing like Lebron. You know,
Speaker 1: we will never get uh, we will never fully be
Speaker 1: able to get that thing. Is he the best? He
Speaker 1: will never be listed as a point guard. I mean
Speaker 1: that is never gonna happen, even though he had the
Speaker 1: damn ball in his hands during playoffs. As much as
Speaker 1: like you know the line, there is Magic and Oscar Robertson.
Speaker 1: They are the two big point guards. If you just
Speaker 1: took someone conducting the offense facing the basket still has
Speaker 1: his dribble. Come on, I love Magic. Lebron's the guy.
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, I mean he was. He was Magic's vision,
Speaker 1: Magic's passing ability, and let's talk about the pinpoint preciseness.
Speaker 1: Another thing I got to see up close one time
Speaker 1: during practice. There's an open practice session they had during
Speaker 1: the NBA Finals at the Warrior's practice facility, and I
Speaker 1: was able to stand behind like Channing Fry Chain Fries
Speaker 1: in the corner and Lebron's throwing these passes out to
Speaker 1: him as they're going through their scrimmage or their walk through,
Speaker 1: and to be able to be right behind the player
Speaker 1: and to see the player's perspective as Lebron would throw
Speaker 1: to him. And he doesn't do this quite as well
Speaker 1: now as he did in his prime, but he would
Speaker 1: deliver the past, precisely in the right place to make
Speaker 1: it easiest for his teammates to catch and shoot. It
Speaker 1: was just right on target. The shooting pocket pocket is
Speaker 1: what the players call it, and Lebron would zip that
Speaker 1: ball right into the player's shooting pocket. If you go
Speaker 1: back and watch him at his peak, notice when his
Speaker 1: teammates catch the ball, they don't have to maneuver it anywhere.
Speaker 1: It's right where it needs to be. The other thing
Speaker 1: watching him here in these two thousand eight games, seeing
Speaker 1: him in that Team USA jersey, the cut of the
Speaker 1: jersey reminds me of his first stint in Cleveland. You
Speaker 1: can kind of identify Lebron the different stages of his
Speaker 1: career also by the looseness or tightness of his jerseys.
Speaker 1: And this is still first Cleveland Lebron wearing his jersey
Speaker 1: the same way he did in that same type of jersey.
Speaker 1: Members a different jersey in his first stint in Cleveland
Speaker 1: than than they had in the second stint in Cleveland.
Speaker 1: And the shorts were huge back then. They would drop
Speaker 1: below the knee. I can't get over how big they were.
Speaker 1: But it's not just the look, it's the way he plays.
Speaker 1: He he was always facing the basket. He was always driving.
Speaker 1: This is the Cleveland Lebron, right. He he wasn't shooting
Speaker 1: outside very much. They were giving him the outside shot
Speaker 1: in the NBA games and plenty of times during Olympics
Speaker 1: they just said, here's that shot. And back then, Chris Bosh,
Speaker 1: who was still a back to the basket player, Um,
Speaker 1: Lebron evolved that back to the basket style that you
Speaker 1: see now where he'll her back guys and he'll shoot
Speaker 1: that fade away or or dreamshake moves like that. But
Speaker 1: back then, Chris Bosh was playing with his back to
Speaker 1: the basket, and he was envious that Lebron always got
Speaker 1: to play facing the basket. And I was always been
Speaker 1: jealous of Lebron during his career because you know, everybody's like, man,
Speaker 1: oh wow, this is so incredible. He does this. Of
Speaker 1: course he does it. He's been looking at offenses and yeah,
Speaker 1: he's been looking at the offenses with the ball in
Speaker 1: his hands, facing the whole court, the whole half court,
Speaker 1: for his entire lifetime of his career. Because he started
Speaker 1: out as a point guard. As a big I'm like, damn, dude,
Speaker 1: I don't even know what's behind me. You know what
Speaker 1: I mean, if I go up to the elbows really
Speaker 1: over and I don't get to see it from that angle,
Speaker 1: you know. So him being able to see the offensive
Speaker 1: flow of the game all the time. See when somebody's
Speaker 1: face is like, Okay, let's get let's get let's get shot. Now,
Speaker 1: let's get see me a shot. I see the look
Speaker 1: on his face. Let's get it to him. He's always
Speaker 1: been a facilitator and a distributor, and with that said,
Speaker 1: he can always create his own shot, you know. So
Speaker 1: asking him to sacrifice um to move the ball for
Speaker 1: the sake of moving the ball, I mean, he's he's
Speaker 1: always gonna be for it. But I would argue that
Speaker 1: Lebron earned that right by being such a good playmaker.
Speaker 1: And Jack, I'm wondering where does Lebron fit in among
Speaker 1: the bigger players who have essentially been point guards. So
Speaker 1: Lebron is listed as a small forward, but he runs
Speaker 1: the point and when you compare him to others of
Speaker 1: his height range, how does Lebron fit in the lineage?
Speaker 1: And who else can we really compare him to. I
Speaker 1: was struck by the way I remember when we're doing
Speaker 1: that interview with Chris Bosh, and you do not hear
Speaker 1: other players use the word jealous. You know, it really
Speaker 1: struck me when Chris it's a it's a factor both
Speaker 1: of you know, the magnificence of Lebron, but also Bosh,
Speaker 1: you know, thinking thinking like that. You know he thought
Speaker 1: he thought a little differently. Um. I can remember during
Speaker 1: the playoffs. This is probably why I'm doing a podcast
Speaker 1: instead of coaching an NBA team. But I used to
Speaker 1: scream take him off, take Lebron off of the ball
Speaker 1: once in a while. I mean, what do you want
Speaker 1: the guy to do. He's gonna have to get the key,
Speaker 1: reeb He's got to score. He's gonna have to find
Speaker 1: the right guy. If he does give it up, he's
Speaker 1: gonna have to get the key rebound. He was one
Speaker 1: of the best late game rebounders I've ever seen. If
Speaker 1: you look at his games, the rebounds he gets, like
Speaker 1: in the final four or five minutes are amazing. And
Speaker 1: he's gonna have to lock down somebody on defense. And
Speaker 1: I always thought he was more effective. Let somebody else
Speaker 1: bring it up and get him to it. Get it
Speaker 1: to him maybe at the elbow. So when you factor
Speaker 1: everything in the responsibilities that he had, and he's also
Speaker 1: going to run that offense. As I said, he's never
Speaker 1: gonna to be listed as a point guard the way
Speaker 1: that magic point guard PG. That's what he is. That
Speaker 1: is not Lebron. I guess he goes down as a
Speaker 1: small forward. But there's nobody like him Ja, particularly as
Speaker 1: you mentioned, since he got a three point shot and
Speaker 1: a and a step back. Uh, nobody like him. Michael.
Speaker 1: One year they kind of put Michael on the ball,
Speaker 1: you know that Michael was yeah, and he starts and
Speaker 1: he could have been it. It wasn't exactly the same.
Speaker 1: I think Lebron stands apart in that class as a
Speaker 1: guy running the offense facing the basket, who can shoot outside,
Speaker 1: who can take it to the basket, like nobody. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't even know who compared him to.
Speaker 1: I guess Michael, and then find a guy also, there's
Speaker 1: nobody like Lebron. And the same thing Jack is. This
Speaker 1: team comes smack in the middle of a golden era
Speaker 1: of really traditional size point guards. Maybe they didn't all
Speaker 1: play the position traditionally, but you had Chris Paul and
Speaker 1: Darren Williams who were both on this team, and and
Speaker 1: we we had a great debate going on and who
Speaker 1: was the best point guard? And Chris and and Darren
Speaker 1: were certainly in the midst of that. Jason Kidd, who
Speaker 1: was on this team, not really in the debate as
Speaker 1: much at this point. He probably held the title earlier
Speaker 1: in the decade. Uh then you had Steve Nash, who's Canadian,
Speaker 1: so he wasn't eligible to play on Team USA. Rajon
Speaker 1: Rondo was the reigning champion, the point guard on the
Speaker 1: Boston Celtics that year, and then Russell Westbrook had just
Speaker 1: been drafted by the still Seattle SuperSonics as they were
Speaker 1: on their way to Oklahoma City. Derek Rose gets drafted
Speaker 1: in two thousand nine by the Bulls with the number
Speaker 1: one pick. So this field, this this pack for the
Speaker 1: title of best point guard in the NBA gets even
Speaker 1: more crowded. And it's amazing to think that here's Darren
Speaker 1: Williams on this team. The twelve best players are the
Speaker 1: best team that we could assemble at the United States
Speaker 1: And at that point he had yet to make an
Speaker 1: All Star team, and it was a function of just
Speaker 1: how many great players there were at that position. So
Speaker 1: he qualifies for this team, and yet he hadn't made
Speaker 1: an All Star team yet. Yeah, and they you know,
Speaker 1: they got they got through this selection process Jay without
Speaker 1: a lot of uh controversy. I mean when I look
Speaker 1: back and I did some I did some research. I
Speaker 1: talked to some some people today kind of on background,
Speaker 1: and I said, well, who was piste off that they
Speaker 1: didn't make it? Because in oh seven, oh six, oh seven,
Speaker 1: We've talked about this before. You had some other guys
Speaker 1: floating around. You had uh you know, agent double zero,
Speaker 1: you had Gilbert Arenas, you had and when I was
Speaker 1: the two I was most surprised about was Chauncey, Billups
Speaker 1: and Paul Pierce. But Paul had kind of taken himself
Speaker 1: out because of injuries. Uh maybe he wasn't at the
Speaker 1: peak of his career and had been on that World
Speaker 1: Championship team in two thousand two that finished in you know,
Speaker 1: a millionth place in Indianapolis. But uh, and lamar odom
Speaker 1: it was a great national team player. But even they
Speaker 1: were not pissed off when the guards were Jay Kid, Uh,
Speaker 1: Chris Paul and Darren Williams because uh, Chauncey played later.
Speaker 1: Chauncey played in two thousand ten for the USA basketball.
Speaker 1: So one of the great underrated things about this team
Speaker 1: was able to assemble these guys and like you said that,
Speaker 1: you know, Darren Williams could have been considered a little
Speaker 1: bit of a surprise, but hey, he absolutely belonged. And
Speaker 1: at that point you could get an argument as to whether, hey,
Speaker 1: who do you want him or Chris Paul Right, there
Speaker 1: are arguments on about who should be on the team,
Speaker 1: and they were. It was just a fun argument, a
Speaker 1: great debate to have. Trust me, we got a lot
Speaker 1: of mileage on it on those ESPN debate shows on
Speaker 1: who was the best point guard in the NBA, and
Speaker 1: it reminded me I missed this, Jack. We don't have
Speaker 1: these musical debates anymore, like who's a better singer Whinney
Speaker 1: Houston and Mariah Carey, or who's the best drummer? Um,
Speaker 1: you know, best singer all time? Of course, there's no
Speaker 1: debate as Aretha frank And it's amazing that it's such
Speaker 1: a subjective field. Music is so much more subjective than sports.
Speaker 1: But you're not gonna get an argument there. Aretha Franklin
Speaker 1: is the greatest pop singer of all time. But you
Speaker 1: could have the contemporaries Whitney versus Mariah best guitarist, right,
Speaker 1: I we we just don't have those arguments anymore. And
Speaker 1: that that best point guard debate reminded me of that
Speaker 1: Whitney and Maria. I. You know, I'm my daughter in
Speaker 1: laways gonna kill me because she plays Mariah Carey the
Speaker 1: Christmas Mariah Carey song from December one until January one.
Speaker 1: But jeez, I'm just not seeing that. Whitney Houston seems
Speaker 1: to be in a class a buff. Well. My thing
Speaker 1: is Mariah had the better voice, Whitney was a better singer.
Speaker 1: I'd be willing to spend another hour on this if
Speaker 1: you want to, but I might be a separate podcast.
Speaker 1: But back to basketball, people would would generally rank Chris
Speaker 1: Paul ahead of Darren Williams, but Darren would always kill
Speaker 1: him head to head. The numbers wouldn't even be close
Speaker 1: when they when they were matched up against each other.
Speaker 1: And uh, we asked Darren about that. He he was
Speaker 1: gentle about that, but we we did ask him about
Speaker 1: that internal competition on this team between him and Chris Paul.
Speaker 1: I think it was a friendly rivalry, you know, because
Speaker 1: I had known I had known c P since college um.
Speaker 1: You know, we went to Nike camp and Jordan campus
Speaker 1: counselors as college counselors and met each other there. We
Speaker 1: played against each other his sophomore year, my junior year
Speaker 1: one of the first games of the season, and so
Speaker 1: who won. Um we did? We did um and we uh.
Speaker 1: We kept in touch and and then you know, throughout
Speaker 1: the first couple of years in the NBA, we stayed friends.
Speaker 1: And when he came in town, we go eat, and
Speaker 1: when I came in town, we go eat, hang out.
Speaker 1: And so but when that you know, we stepped on
Speaker 1: the court, it was it was always competitive. You know.
Speaker 1: I always wanted to beat him and he always wanted
Speaker 1: to beat me, and so it was just kind of
Speaker 1: a friendly rivalry from that moment on. You're listening to
Speaker 1: Kobe Lebron and radeem Keith, Jay and I will be
Speaker 1: back in a minute. You know, probably was a smart
Speaker 1: move by UH coach k that he took. He took
Speaker 1: that right out of the discussion will it be Chris
Speaker 1: or will it be Darren by starting Jay Kidd And
Speaker 1: it was really a brilliant move. And I think Jay
Speaker 1: quite possibly my favorite stat of the entire Olympic experience.
Speaker 1: They played eight games in Beijing, the Redeemed Team did.
Speaker 1: Jason Kidd started every game. Now we all know he
Speaker 1: I think he only averaged twelve thirteen minutes. He took
Speaker 1: seven shots. He took seven shots in eight games and
Speaker 1: he made six of them. And there's a moment in
Speaker 1: one of the game games Uh, you know, it was
Speaker 1: another blowout. He's dribbling down court to get it started.
Speaker 1: Yet is usual pretty good pace. You know, Jason played,
Speaker 1: he got him, he got him gone. You're not that
Speaker 1: not that uh, you know, Lebron and Kobe needed to
Speaker 1: be revved up, but Jason got them going in their tempo.
Speaker 1: He is dribbling up the court. That happened to be
Speaker 1: a slow moment. They are backed off from him. They
Speaker 1: were like twenty feet away from him, and you can
Speaker 1: see Jason just stop and dribble and go, oh shit,
Speaker 1: I gotta shoot this, you know, and he uh and
Speaker 1: he drains it and uh, boy talked about somebody knowing
Speaker 1: their role. That really uh, that really knocked me out.
Speaker 1: Seven shots over eight games for a starter. And the
Speaker 1: amazing thing is he developed into a more than decent
Speaker 1: three point shooter. In fact, he's in the top ten
Speaker 1: all time and three point shots made, which is one
Speaker 1: of the more remarkable adjustments. I would put that up
Speaker 1: there with Karl Malone becoming a great free throw shooter
Speaker 1: after he was abysmal at the line when he first
Speaker 1: got into the league. But Jason Kidd developed and it
Speaker 1: really starts. I'd say if you look at the split
Speaker 1: after this, uh, this time period in two thousand and eight,
Speaker 1: with with this team, but sensing where the league was going,
Speaker 1: he needed to become a better three point shooter, and
Speaker 1: so he winds up. By the time he retired, he
Speaker 1: was at top ten in the history of the league
Speaker 1: and made three pointers. Kid was just such a smart player.
Speaker 1: I mean, we've used this on and on about this team,
Speaker 1: Lebron's basketball, Like you, Chris Paul, Jason Kidd is right
Speaker 1: up there, and you talk about somebody who knew exactly
Speaker 1: and remember when we first started talking about him, he
Speaker 1: was surprised when Jerry Colangelo, the Godfather, asked him to
Speaker 1: be on this team. And you talk about somebody that
Speaker 1: from moment one knew his role. It was Jason Kidd.
Speaker 1: My job was to you know, pick up, you know,
Speaker 1: set the tone and set the table for us defensively,
Speaker 1: um by picking up and getting guys to come up
Speaker 1: with me, um and understand that that was going to
Speaker 1: be one of our strengths is that, you know, steal
Speaker 1: the ball, create turnovers, playing the open court, and have
Speaker 1: fun doing it. And then I would go sit on
Speaker 1: the bench and uh and let the younger legs take over.
Speaker 1: And my job again was to, you know, on the bench,
Speaker 1: you know, make sure that we cheered for one another,
Speaker 1: because it's easy when it's forty to eighty to just
Speaker 1: sit there and start looking in the stands. But I
Speaker 1: thought the guys did a great job for cheering for
Speaker 1: one another, and uh, I was again responsible to make
Speaker 1: sure that guys were doing that. Meanwhile, the opposite of
Speaker 1: Jason Kidd's role was Dwayne Wade. Instead of starting and
Speaker 1: facilitating for Kobe and Lebron, Wade plays on the second unit,
Speaker 1: where he had the freedom and even the mission to
Speaker 1: be the focal point with those two stars out. And
Speaker 1: you could argue that the second unit was what really
Speaker 1: said apart Team USA and most of these games because
Speaker 1: many of these countries had multiple NBA players and their
Speaker 1: starting lineup, the Redeemed team had multiple NBA All Stars
Speaker 1: coming off the bench. And that came up when Carlos
Speaker 1: to Delfino, who was on the Argentina team, had a
Speaker 1: conversation with Chris Boss. That Boss told us about Carlos.
Speaker 1: Delfino's a good friend of mine and a teammate um
Speaker 1: in Toronto, and he was telling me, He's like, yeah, man,
Speaker 1: it's cool. You know, we already know it's gonna be
Speaker 1: a tough game. But then you guys five guys out
Speaker 1: and a whole other five comes in and it's Dwayne
Speaker 1: Oh you damn Chris, Paul Darrenly and damn dude, you know,
Speaker 1: and we were we were picking up full court, we
Speaker 1: were pressing, we were playing fast, you know it scos
Speaker 1: you man. I mean, you see how talented guys were.
Speaker 1: And I always tell people that was some of the
Speaker 1: best basketball I've ever seen Dwayne Waite play like. He
Speaker 1: was incredible, Like I mean, instant right away. He's not
Speaker 1: gonna miss too many. He's everywhere on the court. He
Speaker 1: was incredible that year. And I remember just, you know,
Speaker 1: just just being happy of having that luxury just to
Speaker 1: kind of playoff guys, you know, and just to see
Speaker 1: how really how talented guys are, what their work ethic
Speaker 1: is and all these things and just to be able
Speaker 1: to take part in that and have a good summer
Speaker 1: with it. And Wade actually led the team in scoring
Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight. Then it was Lebron, then Kobe,
Speaker 1: and fourth is Carmelo Anthony. And the more Carmelo played
Speaker 1: in the Olympics over the years, the more the Olympics
Speaker 1: seem to bring out the best version of him. There
Speaker 1: was Hoodie Carmelo, Hoodie Melo, and also Olympic mellow. And
Speaker 1: when we talked to to Melow, the first thing I
Speaker 1: asked him about was that phenomenon of Olympic mellow. Just
Speaker 1: playing with with great players, right and playing you know,
Speaker 1: being in a great situation and really just being able
Speaker 1: to just kind of focus on one thing, right. I mean,
Speaker 1: everybody bought something different too, the Olympic teams and you know,
Speaker 1: and and at that point in time, my role was
Speaker 1: that you know that that stretched for who can who
Speaker 1: can shoot? Who you know, who who to stress the floor.
Speaker 1: I mean when you play with guys you know the Klobe's,
Speaker 1: Lebron and Cps and you know those every those guys
Speaker 1: just like just get in when you're fit in right,
Speaker 1: just get open, somebody somebody going to farm. And of
Speaker 1: course Carmelo Anthony and Jim Behi I'm an assistant coach
Speaker 1: on this team, are forever linked because Carmelo led Syracuse
Speaker 1: to their first national championship under Beehim in two thousand three.
Speaker 1: Jim's son, Betty Beheim, who had the cues on a
Speaker 1: pretty nice tournament, run himself in he was born and Jack,
Speaker 1: I'm wondering if he were born four years later, would
Speaker 1: he be named Carmelo. It's quite possible. You know, they
Speaker 1: do practice at the Carmelo Anthony Center, which I believe.
Speaker 1: I believe Melo UH parted with three million dollars for that.
Speaker 1: But when you think of somebody a one year guy,
Speaker 1: or maybe not even a one year guy, but somebody
Speaker 1: associated a player associated with an n c A A championship,
Speaker 1: you know, like one guy, um boy, you'd be harder
Speaker 1: pressed to find somebody more than UH than Carmelo Anthony
Speaker 1: and Syracuse on that n c A championship team. I mean,
Speaker 1: they had other good players, but he really carried that
Speaker 1: team and Jim never forgot it and never will. Over
Speaker 1: the years. You know, I've been pretty close to Jim.
Speaker 1: We've had a lot of conversations. I wasn't always kind
Speaker 1: to Carmelo and some of my assessments, uh, do not
Speaker 1: do that in front of Jim Beheim, off the record,
Speaker 1: under sodium pentethal whatever. Jim is not saying anything negative
Speaker 1: about Carmelo Anthony. And you know what, I understand that.
Speaker 1: I mean, that guy gave you a championship at a
Speaker 1: time when you weren't supposed to, uh, when you weren't
Speaker 1: supposed to win it. And here is Jim talking about
Speaker 1: his uh, one of his favorite guys. Ever. First of all,
Speaker 1: he's good in international ball. It's a little different, and
Speaker 1: he's a good international player because of the way he
Speaker 1: plays and how he can score, make the three, to
Speaker 1: pull up, post up whatever. But the thing that's interesting,
Speaker 1: I had to fight to get Mellow on this team.
Speaker 1: That's the one thing I did. They you know, he
Speaker 1: was not well regarded at that point in time. There
Speaker 1: was a lot of talk and I had I really
Speaker 1: talked to Jerry and Mike a long time about Carmelo
Speaker 1: because I knew he is a perfect Olympic type player,
Speaker 1: offensive player, and and he showed what's interesting And I
Speaker 1: always hated the NBA people who wrote about him. He
Speaker 1: should and he can play with the team. Well he's
Speaker 1: when he's went Denver in the New York next. He
Speaker 1: had to take all the shots they had nobody else,
Speaker 1: He had to do everything. There was something about Carmelo
Speaker 1: in this. On the one hand, it's hard to explain.
Speaker 1: You're right, I mean he was probably, you know, certainly
Speaker 1: not a top three. You could argue that he wasn't
Speaker 1: even the fourth best player. But there was something about
Speaker 1: Carmelo in that lineup of a national team guy that
Speaker 1: got them, uh started on the wing. Well, Jack, I
Speaker 1: will say this. I mean he was a guy. You know,
Speaker 1: Kobe Lebron Wade. We've seen they were the best players
Speaker 1: on championship teams, right they they could have that ability.
Speaker 1: If they hadn't done it yet, they would go on
Speaker 1: to do it. Carmelo could be the best player on
Speaker 1: a playoff team, which is not nothing, right, and he
Speaker 1: had demonstrated that early in Denver, and he got even
Speaker 1: in Nix into the playoffs one year. So you could
Speaker 1: have Carmelo, especially at that time, be your main guy
Speaker 1: and you were going to be a playoff team, no
Speaker 1: question about it. And the other thing, you know, I
Speaker 1: was I was watching the next episode, which we're gonna
Speaker 1: set up. We're gonna talk about the gold medal game,
Speaker 1: and there's something else. There's four or five minutes to go,
Speaker 1: and a lot of times Carmelo was not on the
Speaker 1: floor because, as you mentioned, that second unit could really
Speaker 1: d it up, could really mix things up. You know,
Speaker 1: he wanted Chris Bosh in there, and there's Carmelo. I'm
Speaker 1: not saying somebody should get extra credit for being a
Speaker 1: great teammate, but that's when it came across to me
Speaker 1: watching Carmelo in those final minutes, uh of the game,
Speaker 1: and he was just such an integral part of Team USA.
Speaker 1: When you name when you're gonna name the greatest players,
Speaker 1: the greatest Team USA players, boy uh, Carmelo Anthony is
Speaker 1: right near the top. And again he had to do
Speaker 1: it in this case with UM. It's not an easy
Speaker 1: adjustment to go from taking twenty shots a game to
Speaker 1: maybe now you're only getting up half that and UM,
Speaker 1: his efficiency, particularly the next Olympic team that's when he
Speaker 1: was at his best, was actually UM with maybe a
Speaker 1: better team because you've got you got Kevin Durant there
Speaker 1: uh in addition to all these other main guys, Carmelo's
Speaker 1: shooting percentages just go off the chart in twelve. But
Speaker 1: he he's effective and pretty efficient here in in two
Speaker 1: thousand and eight as well, and obviously it was a
Speaker 1: key component of this championship group, Jack, what are some
Speaker 1: of the other things that this stand out watching these games? Um?
Speaker 1: One thing for me, I was a little surprised how
Speaker 1: much they went into the paint to uh Dwight Howard.
Speaker 1: They you know, they treated him like a traditional post
Speaker 1: up center and they throw the ball into him a
Speaker 1: little a little surprising to me. But as we go
Speaker 1: back and remember he was the best center in the
Speaker 1: NBA at that point. What else is as you watched
Speaker 1: and rewatched these games from two thousand and eight stood
Speaker 1: out to you? Well, Um, the number one thing that
Speaker 1: I wrote down, that's what you said about Lebron That
Speaker 1: just electric athleticism. I think another thing was we had
Speaker 1: talked earlier about how comfortable Kobe was Laker Kobe l
Speaker 1: a Laker, Kobe on the wing and you know, he
Speaker 1: just seems like a wing guy. And how many times
Speaker 1: they found Kobe on the Kobe on the wing and
Speaker 1: the other thing that struck me as team wise about him.
Speaker 1: They were, they were they could be prone to go
Speaker 1: to sleep. Jay, they were you know, they the teams
Speaker 1: that they played up until Spain um were you know,
Speaker 1: they didn't get the best competition, but they would let
Speaker 1: some teams back in. And there was one point it
Speaker 1: was against uh Angola. For God's sake, you know, Showsky
Speaker 1: you could look at him once a while on the
Speaker 1: bench and he would be boiling at him. And as
Speaker 1: we're going to see in the Spain game, he throws
Speaker 1: out a couple of left bonds. But in the third period,
Speaker 1: they're kind of you know, as to to use a
Speaker 1: quote from bull Dorm, they're kind of lolly gagging their
Speaker 1: way through the game against Angola. Showsky puts them in
Speaker 1: a half court trap, and I was in Wade Lebron
Speaker 1: Darren and Chris Paul. I mean, if they would have
Speaker 1: played that half court trap for like eight minutes, I
Speaker 1: don't think Angola would have got the ball above above
Speaker 1: mid court. And another one other thing. Jay was at
Speaker 1: the game against Greece and I should have been more
Speaker 1: uh assiduous about checking whether the exact players from the
Speaker 1: two thousand and six Greece team that beat them in
Speaker 1: the World Championships. That was such a big deal for
Speaker 1: this team. They're playing Greece in Beijing, and they were
Speaker 1: so aggressive from the beginning of the game. They never
Speaker 1: let them get into any perimeter pick and roll. And
Speaker 1: once again it was Lebron. It was especially Lebron, and
Speaker 1: just to go off on him again doing my research, um,
Speaker 1: I was surprised at how few times Lebron has been
Speaker 1: an All NBA defensive player. Was I missing something there?
Speaker 1: He he you go back to two thousand thirteen, he
Speaker 1: was a second team All NBA offensive guy. Did I
Speaker 1: miss something? Isn't he a great defensive player or doesn't
Speaker 1: get recognized or am I missing something? He was and
Speaker 1: he was at that point, especially the peak of his
Speaker 1: defensive ability in Miami. I think Eric Spoelstra, the Miami
Speaker 1: he coach, used to calm one through five because you
Speaker 1: can put Lebron defensively on any position from the point
Speaker 1: guard to the center. And he was a key part
Speaker 1: of that team's defense, especially as they started going smaller
Speaker 1: and didn't have traditional I remember they had Joel Anthony
Speaker 1: as a traditional big man at the beginning and then
Speaker 1: get away from that in part because you can get
Speaker 1: away with that with Lebron's thanks to Lebron's ability to
Speaker 1: guard so many people. So you you had that then.
Speaker 1: But then as he goes back to Cleveland and then
Speaker 1: especially by the time he gets to l A with
Speaker 1: the Lakers, you could see him taking times. Count the
Speaker 1: number of times you see him dive on the floor
Speaker 1: during the regular season or even his trademark chased down
Speaker 1: blocks during the regular seats, and you'd stop seeing that.
Speaker 1: So it was the right strategy. He's conserving his energy
Speaker 1: for the playoffs. But as you know, Jack, the way
Speaker 1: and the time NBA players conservat their energies on defense.
Speaker 1: So by conserving energy throughout the regular season, Lebron's ranking
Speaker 1: in his status as a defensive player dwindled. But he
Speaker 1: can still bring it out when he wants to. He
Speaker 1: just doesn't choose to do it as much. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: guess he was never He wasn't that Kobe Jordan's lockdown guy.
Speaker 1: He wasn't locking down the opposing to guard or switching
Speaker 1: off on the point guard. He makes a play by
Speaker 1: the way during the Olympics. Uh, I think it's you know,
Speaker 1: I've lost track it might have been in the Grease
Speaker 1: game where he makes a He just catches a layup
Speaker 1: with both hands without goaltending. Now, it didn't come from
Speaker 1: Kobe Bryant. It came from a smaller player. But Lebron
Speaker 1: chases it down, jumps up in the air and catches
Speaker 1: the ball with two hands, and it wasn't even close
Speaker 1: to a uh wasn't even close to a goalten. A
Speaker 1: final moment though, this could have been this in my
Speaker 1: top five Olympic moments. Second quarter of the Germany game
Speaker 1: against Germany. My god, what an atrocious team that was.
Speaker 1: Dirk Nowitzki couldn't have gotten out of Beijing fast enough.
Speaker 1: The US beat them a hundred and six to fifty seven.
Speaker 1: I mean they should have used debtl of shrimp, you know, somewhere. Anyway,
Speaker 1: in the second quarter, Kobe gets and by this time
Speaker 1: they're they're gone. You know, this is nothing. We were
Speaker 1: just fooling around like bird. Once in a while, I
Speaker 1: used to I think I'll shoot left handed the rest
Speaker 1: of the game. You know what, let me just shoot
Speaker 1: some left hand a shot. Kobe gets a no look
Speaker 1: pass from Kid, comes across the lane and says, what
Speaker 1: the hell does like a classic hook shot, I mean
Speaker 1: a real not a jump hook. You know, he wasn't
Speaker 1: facing the basket. He did that kind of Maybe Joe
Speaker 1: Jellybean Bryant had done one thirty five years earlier. I
Speaker 1: don't know, But can you honestly remember beside Kareem and
Speaker 1: not counting, you know, Kevin Garnett jump hook or something
Speaker 1: like that. Can you think of anybody doing a or
Speaker 1: the magic Johnson baby baby sky hook? Can you think
Speaker 1: of a hook shot somebody did? I can think literally
Speaker 1: of one Jack and it was in two thousand. I'm
Speaker 1: on the road with the Lakers and they're playing in
Speaker 1: Milwaukee and Ray Allen shoots a hook shot in the
Speaker 1: lid the They're so intimidated. The Milwaukee Bucks is so
Speaker 1: intimidated by Shack. This is at his ferocious best. This
Speaker 1: is Shack's envy PCs and this is when he's fully
Speaker 1: committed on defense, and the Bucks just wanted no part
Speaker 1: of him. And Ray Allen all time great jump shooters,
Speaker 1: still right now the career leader in three point shots made.
Speaker 1: He goes into the lane. Most guys were just dribbling
Speaker 1: in and dribbling out as soon as they saw Shack.
Speaker 1: Ray Allen, of all people, goes into the lane and
Speaker 1: shoots a hook shot. I'll never forget, Jack, I asked,
Speaker 1: did it go in? Of course, Helen doesn't. Kobe went in.
Speaker 1: I didn't make this point. Kobe went in, by the way,
Speaker 1: Kobe Kobe cook shop winning. He could have made more
Speaker 1: if he had wanted to take more, but he just
Speaker 1: didn't want to. But Ray Allen takes one and misses it.
Speaker 1: And after the game, I'm in the Milwaukee locker room
Speaker 1: and I said, I go to Sam Counsel with my
Speaker 1: favorite people in the NB. Said Sam, you guys, Uh,
Speaker 1: I mean Ray Allen shooting the hook shots and you
Speaker 1: guys didn't seem to want to take a lot of
Speaker 1: shots in the paint. What's up with the Sam goes
Speaker 1: see it? They got a second in, motherfucker, Sam Cosell.
Speaker 1: But besides that, uh, you know, I don't I don't
Speaker 1: have much else from the games until we get to Spain.
Speaker 1: We're gonna deconstruct that Spain game. And I wondered, how
Speaker 1: you know I'm betting Coach k still spent a lot
Speaker 1: of uh freaking time there in the film room. Yeah, Jack,
Speaker 1: I mean they win their games by an average score
Speaker 1: of a hundred and six and seventy eight, and yet
Speaker 1: coach k is still studying game tape like a madman.
Speaker 1: And let's just say that didn't fit in with Jim
Speaker 1: Beheim's idea of how they should be spending their time
Speaker 1: in Beijing. Well, I would go out all day. My
Speaker 1: kids were there, Mike would sleep all day. We would
Speaker 1: play the game at nine o'clock, get back at eleven,
Speaker 1: one o'clock we start watching take So now it's four
Speaker 1: in the morning. I've been up since seven. I felt
Speaker 1: I went on the floor. I never did that, right
Speaker 1: on the floor. They wanted to give me a seatbelt.
Speaker 1: Jim could sleep, though. I can tell you that that
Speaker 1: there was storing during the year. I was doing a
Speaker 1: book with him. Um he had one thing and the
Speaker 1: first first day we were doing it, they were going
Speaker 1: to play a game or something. I said, well, I'll
Speaker 1: come over in the morning. We'll do some stuff. No,
Speaker 1: I said, well, what are you doing? He goes, I
Speaker 1: just sleep today of the game. That's what I do.
Speaker 1: I don't want to see you, don't come over. That's
Speaker 1: what I do. But you know, it's surprising that Beheim
Speaker 1: could go anywhere by the way, given how restrictive things
Speaker 1: were uh in Beijing, and the person I had to
Speaker 1: deal with it the most was Craig Miller, who was
Speaker 1: USA Basketball's chief communications officer, and he had been in
Speaker 1: charge of the program, as we said before, he had
Speaker 1: done that job before the Dream Team, And here he
Speaker 1: is describing being in Beijing in two thousand eight. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think Beijing, it was really the restrictive government, um.
Speaker 1: And treatment of the non mainstream as you will. Pollution
Speaker 1: was certainly m a concern, but if you remember, Beijing
Speaker 1: shut down kind of its industrial areas and the weather
Speaker 1: actually during the Olympics was beautiful and it was blue skies,
Speaker 1: you know, and not at all like it it what
Speaker 1: it was when I went for some some site reviews
Speaker 1: and some set up meetings. UM. But I think the
Speaker 1: primary one of two in two thousand and eight, it
Speaker 1: was really the the government, uh, and it's uh controlling
Speaker 1: factor and in fact that was the case. It's the
Speaker 1: only Olympics where I was told one rooms we would
Speaker 1: have media interviews in at the hotel. It was you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's really the first home. It was the first
Speaker 1: Olympics where I had to supply twenty four hours in advance,
Speaker 1: a list of media that would be coming to do interviews,
Speaker 1: and they would approve it. So like if the USA
Speaker 1: Today or Sports Illustrated wanted to come and do an
Speaker 1: interview with d Way, I'd have to put him on
Speaker 1: the list, have it in twenty four hours in advance,
Speaker 1: and the government would review it. I'll prove it, and
Speaker 1: then they would tell me that I would use meeting
Speaker 1: room see and uh, you know we always joked that
Speaker 1: was so they could hear the whole interview room. Um, firsthand,
Speaker 1: you're listening to Kobe Lebron and of a deem team.
Speaker 1: We'll be back after this. But I guess the good
Speaker 1: thing about the government being so restrictive and controlling every
Speaker 1: aspect of what went on in China and in Beijing
Speaker 1: during those Olympics was that they were so restrictive they
Speaker 1: could even control the smog. They limited the travel and
Speaker 1: the access and so the the air pollution went down.
Speaker 1: The same thing happened in l A in eighty four.
Speaker 1: Jack I was living in l A. Peter uberof controlled
Speaker 1: the weather. But what they did was well, first of all,
Speaker 1: they scared so many people off. The people fled the city.
Speaker 1: And then they had they had the companies that worked
Speaker 1: out that had their offices downtown. They had him stagger
Speaker 1: their work schedules, so you just didn't have as many
Speaker 1: cars on the road, uh, polluting the the atmosphere. And Jack,
Speaker 1: those are two the most glorious weeks in the history
Speaker 1: of Los Angeles. The weather was great, there was no smog,
Speaker 1: and there was no traffic. It was great. Um, let's
Speaker 1: go back to two thousand and eight. Let's discuss the
Speaker 1: players that we haven't talked to or talked about over
Speaker 1: the course of this podcast. Uh, running down real quick,
Speaker 1: Carlos Boozer. He was a player that you could find
Speaker 1: then in two thousand and eight that you wouldn't really
Speaker 1: see too much in today's NBA. And he was a
Speaker 1: six ft nine power player, not a stretch four. He
Speaker 1: made one three pointer in fourteen at hemps in his career,
Speaker 1: and you had it was a transition. So at that time, Jack,
Speaker 1: you had guys like Richard Lewis six nine, six ten,
Speaker 1: guy who sat a lot of three pointers, but that
Speaker 1: was still more of a novelty than the norm. But
Speaker 1: but he was a power guy. Yeah, And I just
Speaker 1: I loved I loved Carlos Boozer's game, but I do wonder,
Speaker 1: you know, you got into that, I'm back to the
Speaker 1: basket guy. He had probably played there from you know,
Speaker 1: he played that Wayne college, and you just wonder if
Speaker 1: he would have become, you know, something really really special,
Speaker 1: if he would have got a face up game. But
Speaker 1: you know that's twenty hid sight or is you know
Speaker 1: that that's what that is. But I always thought maybe
Speaker 1: he limited himself a little bit and he was not
Speaker 1: able to find many minutes on this team. And another
Speaker 1: guy who struggled to get playing time was Tayshaun Prince Um.
Speaker 1: Now he was a defensive force arms had just went
Speaker 1: on forever. It's funny how many guys, when you think
Speaker 1: of their their highlight, it's defensive And I don't know.
Speaker 1: Lebron had that amazing blocking Game seven to win the
Speaker 1: championship for Cleveland. But there's still plenty of highlights for
Speaker 1: le Bron that we think of Tassan Prince I would
Speaker 1: say the highlight reel consists of one play that that
Speaker 1: chasdown block that he had against Reggie Miller in the playoffs.
Speaker 1: He was a four time All Defensive second Team member,
Speaker 1: never average fifteen points per game and yet had a
Speaker 1: long NBA career and found a place onto this team
Speaker 1: as well. You know, here he is with Lebron and Kobe,
Speaker 1: and in our interviews with people, you know j he
Speaker 1: he always came up, you know, he was, oh, man,
Speaker 1: I remember D'Antoni said it. We don't we're not running
Speaker 1: the audio. But D'Antoni talked about him, Colangelo talked about him,
Speaker 1: Mike Showski talked about him. He you know why, he
Speaker 1: was just fit into that high i Q type of game.
Speaker 1: He had one great moment in one of the games
Speaker 1: he made a stepped in the passing lane. Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: made a great one handed uh tomahawk dunk. But there
Speaker 1: you can't play twelve guys, I mean nine, I would say, right, J.
Speaker 1: Nine is kind of your limit on on any kind
Speaker 1: of team. And that's just the way that it was.
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying Taishawn could could should have got
Speaker 1: more minutes, but he probably he certainly could have. The
Speaker 1: way he fit in, it was good at least to
Speaker 1: have the Pistons represented in this era. And of course
Speaker 1: that is a major glare of the Dream Team in
Speaker 1: ninety two was that Isaiah Thomas and his two championships,
Speaker 1: and the Pistons two championships weren't represented. So at least
Speaker 1: Taishan helps remind you when you go back and see
Speaker 1: this of what the Pistons meant to that league, and
Speaker 1: remember that group was a game away from being two
Speaker 1: time champions. For seed, Wallace doesn't commit the unpardonable sin
Speaker 1: leaving Robert big shot. I could still hear people screaming,
Speaker 1: don't leave him. Can't leave big shot Robert ry alone
Speaker 1: at a big moment in a playoff game, and that's
Speaker 1: what he did to go double manager Nobli Uh. If
Speaker 1: not for that, and even despite that, they still took
Speaker 1: that series of seven games came within a game of
Speaker 1: beating the Spurs, but the Spurs win Game seven at
Speaker 1: home in two thousand five, they would have been back
Speaker 1: to back champions. But even after that, the Miami Heat
Speaker 1: still had to go through the Pistons UH to get
Speaker 1: to the championship. In two thousand and six, Lebron James
Speaker 1: had to go through them to get to the finals
Speaker 1: in two thousand and seven, the Celtics had to go
Speaker 1: through them in the conference finals to get to their championship.
Speaker 1: In two thousand and eight. So let's not forget the Pistons,
Speaker 1: and through Tashaun Prince, we can give them a little
Speaker 1: shout out in the context of this redeemed team. Uh,
Speaker 1: Michael read another player on that team an outside shooter. Uh,
Speaker 1: it's funny we think of him as an outside shooter.
Speaker 1: But he was only in the top ten of three
Speaker 1: point shooting percentage twice and the last time was in
Speaker 1: two thousand three, so long before this team. But they're
Speaker 1: just weren't that many shooters around, American shooters around in
Speaker 1: the league at that time. And then, sadly, he tore
Speaker 1: up his left knee in January two thousand nine, and
Speaker 1: then he retour those same ligaments a year and he
Speaker 1: was basically done. And we really don't think or talk
Speaker 1: about him that much. But at a time when you
Speaker 1: needed a guy to shoot, now Jack, you have everyone
Speaker 1: is expected to be able to shoot from every position.
Speaker 1: Nikolayoki is expected to shoot three pointers. Your point guards
Speaker 1: are expected to shoot three pointers. But at that time
Speaker 1: and for that team, you needed a three point specialist.
Speaker 1: And the problem for putting together Olympic basketball teams for
Speaker 1: America is a lot of the best shooters weren't American
Speaker 1: back then. Pages Toyakovitch and Hado Turkolu. Patio was one
Speaker 1: of three players who made more than two hundred three
Speaker 1: pointers that season in two thousand and eight, um so three.
Speaker 1: He was one third of that two hundred club. In
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, which was the last time we had a
Speaker 1: full NBA season, twelve players made more than two hundred
Speaker 1: and so you just have more shooting available. You have
Speaker 1: more players who can shoot, more Americans who can shoot
Speaker 1: three pointers. But Michael Red was really a relic from
Speaker 1: that era and that's how he wand up on that team. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there was always that was a big fear. I remember
Speaker 1: the Dream Team organization. That was the fear that it's
Speaker 1: a forty minute game. Oh we started missing we And
Speaker 1: that's why Chris Mullen, who in many ways you know,
Speaker 1: hadn't one I'm trying to think who I would compare
Speaker 1: him to on the on the Redeemed team, Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: was an established player but hadn't won a championship. But
Speaker 1: I as as I recall it, Chris Mullen was one of,
Speaker 1: like Chuck Daly, first five guys that he wanted after
Speaker 1: Jordan Pippo because he was a shooter. And as it
Speaker 1: turns out, you know, uh, Kobe was such a good
Speaker 1: probably didn't need him. But you know, Michael Read it
Speaker 1: just it just speaks to the time, Jay. There are
Speaker 1: many metrics about how the game has changed. And I've
Speaker 1: talked endlessly about the Phoenix Suns. You know, my guys
Speaker 1: from early in the Auts revolutionizing the league with the
Speaker 1: number of three point attempts, and now they would be
Speaker 1: near the bottom. Michael Read known, as you said, as
Speaker 1: a h you know, an outside shooter with range. He
Speaker 1: I looked us up, he would average about in his
Speaker 1: most three point taking season, he didn't even average six
Speaker 1: threes a game. He was around five four and a half.
Speaker 1: And right now that would put him about in the
Speaker 1: top sixty of three point shooters in the NBA. And
Speaker 1: that's just an example of, you know, how the game,
Speaker 1: how much the game has changed. So with this two
Speaker 1: thousand and eight teen though, Kobe says, I'll handle that,
Speaker 1: Michael Read, your services aren't needed. Kobe average six and
Speaker 1: a half three point attempts per game in only twenty
Speaker 1: three minutes. So he led the Redeemed team with fifty
Speaker 1: three three point attempts made seventeen percentage um in eight games,
Speaker 1: got a fifty three points. So Kobe decided he would
Speaker 1: take on the three point shooting duties. So that's our
Speaker 1: sort of final observations on this team is a look
Speaker 1: at their run through pool play and and even uh
Speaker 1: uh the metal Round. As we got into that, and
Speaker 1: as we'll find out in our next episode, things got
Speaker 1: a lot tighter after all that cruising and fun that
Speaker 1: they had and sleeping that Jim Beeheim got in. Uh,
Speaker 1: things were allowed to get a lot more serious. In
Speaker 1: the gold medal game against Being Well, there was definitely
Speaker 1: a lot of russure. We knew that was not gonna
Speaker 1: be easy. Uh. You know, they always teamed uh you know,
Speaker 1: these things like their best right in the best moments.
Speaker 1: The things I remember is that you couldn't shake them.
Speaker 1: You know, every time you get up like five or
Speaker 1: six points, you think, okay, now you can bring it over.
Speaker 1: And they did a big three or or hit a
Speaker 1: couple of big three in a row, back back to
Speaker 1: where we're scary State scary the whole game. The only
Speaker 1: thing that was going through my mind was like, damn,
Speaker 1: we can't stop these guys. You know what I mean,
Speaker 1: we were. It was a spirited effort by both teams.
Speaker 1: Who would they lean on to save the day. We'll
Speaker 1: have all that more in the next episode of Kobe
Speaker 1: Lebron and the Redeem Team. For now, I'm Jane and
Speaker 1: I'm Jack McCallum. Thanks for listening. The Dream Team Tapes
Speaker 1: Season two. Kobe Lebron and the Redeem Team is a
Speaker 1: production of Diversion Podcasts in association with I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit the I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, where wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: This season is written and hosted by me, Jack McCallum
Speaker 1: and j A. Dande. Executive producer Scott Waxman and Mark
Speaker 1: Frances for Diversion podcast and Sean's High Toned for I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Our editorial director is John Tuttle, Supervising producer
Speaker 1: Brian Murphy, Legal producer Freddie Overseteghen editing, mixing and sound
Speaker 1: designed by Mark Frances. For the Fields is our technical producer,
Speaker 1: and our director of Marketing and business Development is Jacob Bronstein.
Speaker 1: Diversion Podcasts