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Speaker 1: Welcome to Had of Money. I'm Joel, I'm Att. Today

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Speaker 1: we're discussing workplace whiplash. Hybrid work is here to stay.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we're going to be making an argument for why

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Speaker 2: we believe that hybrid workers is here to stay because essentially,

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Speaker 2: for the last hundred years, you had to go into work,

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Speaker 2: right like whether you're going to a factory, whether you're

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Speaker 2: going into an office, and even the past several days

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Speaker 2: on your fields.

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Speaker 3: Now on your fields, you gotta go out to the office.

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Speaker 2: But changes are afoots, especially as we've seen over the

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Speaker 2: past few years that has sped up and more folks

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Speaker 2: are working from home. But is it going to remain

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Speaker 2: that way? I feel like once the pandemic hit, the

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Speaker 2: cat was let out the bag. Sure, right, and everyone

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Speaker 2: knows that cats don't like going back into bags.

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Speaker 1: I think it finicky man. I've got a couple of

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Speaker 1: cats at home, and I'm amazed at how they hate

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Speaker 1: being put in bags. Right, Yeah, they don't like being

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Speaker 1: put it.

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Speaker 2: They don't like it.

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Speaker 1: I just like walk up the stairs and they still

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Speaker 1: get freaked out every time. They're like yeah, and they

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Speaker 1: run off, and I'm like, you know me by now,

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Speaker 1: I've never stepped on you. I've never kicked you, Like,

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Speaker 1: how are you still so frightened when I just walk

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Speaker 1: up the stairs?

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Speaker 2: Cats? Yeah, so we're gonna talk about that. What we

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Speaker 2: are talking about, Yeah, the working environment, and I think

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Speaker 2: for us what we think lies in the future for

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Speaker 2: different workplaces and how people can react. Let's say we're

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Speaker 2: sort of making a prediction here, I guess.

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Speaker 1: Well, and in particular some of the writings on the

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Speaker 1: wall and some of the like, we're seeing actually the

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Speaker 1: hybrid work model become the norm. But how do you

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Speaker 1: react to that if that's not the new norm you want.

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Speaker 1: We'll give our thoughts on that too. But Matt, first,

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Speaker 1: real quick, frugler cheap wearing a fishing vest on an

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Speaker 1: airplane to cram all your clothes in so you don't

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Speaker 1: have to check a bag and pay the.

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Speaker 2: Void paying those additional fees. Totally frugal. Yeah, this was

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Speaker 2: so is this It was in the Times or the journal,

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Speaker 2: Ustry Journal, and they highlighted a bunch of folks who

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Speaker 2: were doing this. And these weren't just like cheap skates.

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Speaker 2: They but profiled a few folks who, like one lady

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Speaker 2: was an attorney, which kind of surprised me. And she's

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Speaker 2: wearing like suburban dad fly fishing vests with all of

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Speaker 2: her all of her things.

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Speaker 1: Someone say they're just stylish, you know, so I totally

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Speaker 1: I do. I really do think it's a frugal move.

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Speaker 1: And like we talk about on the show.

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Speaker 2: One man or one woman's frugal as another man's or

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Speaker 2: another woman's cheat. And so I think if you want

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Speaker 2: to do that in order to not have to pay

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Speaker 2: those additional fees because you're flying with spirit and it's

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Speaker 2: gonna cost you the same amount of money that you

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Speaker 2: paid for that ticket, in order to chest or not

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Speaker 2: even to check a bag, just to bring on a

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Speaker 2: carry on.

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Speaker 1: I think Frontier go for it charges more for carry

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Speaker 1: on than it does for check bag, which is so

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Speaker 1: you have to know the fine print of all the

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Speaker 1: airlines and what they charge. And yeah, you might be

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Speaker 1: willing to jump through some hoops, including wearing a vest

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Speaker 1: or putting on extra articles of clothing to save yourself

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Speaker 1: money on a flight. I think that's just savvy, right,

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Speaker 1: that's using the rules here. So you're for it.

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Speaker 2: I'm for it. Yeah for me too, Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 2: well not personally, so you wouldn't do it. Well, there

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Speaker 2: are more socially acceptable ways of doing this, like carrying

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Speaker 2: a backpack. You know, we both have code pass like

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Speaker 2: the smaller backpack. Yeah, twenty eight meters backpacks are awesome. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and they get in just under the wire as far

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Speaker 2: as the dimensions dimension required for almost everybody, including including spirit.

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Speaker 2: And so you just pack light.

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Speaker 1: You're super light with the other by the way, the

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Speaker 1: other massive event real quick.

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Speaker 2: You know, we even use those bags. When we went

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Speaker 2: to Scotland, we packed a week's worth of clothing in

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Speaker 2: a backpack inside of that back exactly. Of course I

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Speaker 2: had Marina Wool on my side to be able to

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Speaker 2: fall back on. I was a touch stick here. Fine.

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Speaker 1: But the other major thing is when you check a bag,

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Speaker 1: you run the risk of losing that luggage. And so

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Speaker 1: I know there's there a credit cards any more problems.

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Speaker 1: There are credit cards that offer you know, reimbursement for

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Speaker 1: luggage stuff like that, which is which is cool, but

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Speaker 1: it doesn't mean it's not a massive hassle and that

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Speaker 1: you want, you know, you want to lose your stuff

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Speaker 1: like that. That is the whole reason for me to

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Speaker 1: not check a bag. I think it's convenience and I

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Speaker 1: think it's not having to go through the annoyance of

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Speaker 1: potentially your luggage being delayed or not being there when

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Speaker 1: you arrive. So I'm all for I don't know the

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Speaker 1: last time I've checked a bag. It's it's probably been

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Speaker 1: like twenty years man, So.

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Speaker 2: I like this. I like this siment. When you and

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Speaker 2: Emily went to France like ten years ago or something

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Speaker 2: like that, you check because you came back with beer.

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Speaker 2: I did.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that is one reason that was working that I

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Speaker 1: can see right. My trip to Amsterdam was worth a

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Speaker 1: worth bringing back beer. There you go brought thirty seven

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Speaker 1: beers back because it's basically like that massively discounted way

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Speaker 1: of shippings.

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Speaker 2: The only way you can get your hands on some

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Speaker 2: of those European beers. As exactly what other argument for

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Speaker 2: wearing all of your clothes onto the plane via a

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Speaker 2: fly fishing vest? Is it just faster, like not having

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Speaker 2: to deal with a carry on in your role, Like

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Speaker 2: imagine someone just walking down the aisle with no bag

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Speaker 2: in tow versus somebody who has on a vest. It's

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Speaker 2: like that times. However, many hundred people are on a

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Speaker 2: flight like that just means you like things happen faster,

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Speaker 2: and everybody just wants to be able to get to

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Speaker 2: their destination faster. That's what I think. That's a great,

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Speaker 2: great argument. So I love about the backpacks too. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: just so simp similar, so easy, exactly.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's move on, Mat. Let's mention the beer

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Speaker 1: we're having on this episode. It's called, and I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: laugh when I say this is called a quite ostentatious

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Speaker 1: testimony of non sequitur by Burial Brewing.

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Speaker 2: Of course, Yeah, they've got the weirdest names of all time.

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Speaker 2: And I will say it's like they just.

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Speaker 1: Like looked in the dictionary and pick random big words. Well,

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Speaker 1: if you actually read the words to.

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Speaker 2: A quite ostentageous I can't even say it ostentatious testimony

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Speaker 2: of non sequitor. They are literally doing that with this, yeah,

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Speaker 2: with this title. But I'm excited for this one because

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Speaker 2: we're kind of shifting gears and drinking some of the

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Speaker 2: some of these stouts from Burial as well. We wanted

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Speaker 2: to drink all those I pas and this most definitely

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Speaker 2: is a big boys stout. Looking forward to enjoying it

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Speaker 2: and sharing our thoughts at the end of the episode,

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Speaker 2: for sure, But let's move on to the subject of

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Speaker 2: the hand matt workplace whiplash and like it makes me

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Speaker 2: think of a car the titro planning. The worst thing

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Speaker 2: you can do when it's happening is to overcorrect, right, Sure,

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Speaker 2: you're stealing wheel, steering wheel hard to the left or

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Speaker 2: the right, Sure, because then when you're tires hit the

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Speaker 2: asphalt again, your car is gonna jerk suddenly. Yeah, you're

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Speaker 2: in a ditch or to a barrier, in another car

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Speaker 2: in a barrier or whatever. Have you ever had your planes,

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Speaker 2: Not that I know of, I don't think so. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I have not majorly to where I was like skitting

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Speaker 2: out of my lane. Yeah, you know you hit some

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Speaker 2: of those big I'm sure I felt second or tunnels.

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Speaker 2: You start floating a little bit and you're like, yeah, this,

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Speaker 2: yeah doesn't feel good.

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Speaker 1: I haven't done it long enough to where it felt

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Speaker 1: like the instinct kicked in to do something about it.

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Speaker 1: Like it's usually short lived, right, yeah, but yeah, that

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Speaker 1: puts you in even more danger when you do that, right,

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Speaker 1: when you make a rapid reaction, sure, or.

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Speaker 2: Even just like when someone pulls out in front of

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Speaker 2: you and you kind of swerve to avoid hitting them.

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Speaker 2: But if you overswerve and your car starts whipping the

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Speaker 2: other way and then you whip it back the other way, huh,

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Speaker 2: you kind of start creating out of control.

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Speaker 1: Acting like you're a stunt driver in some sort of

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Speaker 1: Hollywood movie or something like that. But I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of people feel this kind of whiplash right now.

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Speaker 1: A lot of workers do, at least the laptop class,

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Speaker 1: which is kind of what it's been what's been called

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Speaker 1: the people in the pandemic who were able to work

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Speaker 1: from home even while other people weren't. But it seemed

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Speaker 1: like work from home was going to be the new normal.

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Speaker 1: Everyone was going hard in that direction. But that is

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Speaker 1: becoming less and less the case, and even companies that

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Speaker 1: made it sound like that was going to be their

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Speaker 1: future in perpetuity are kind of changing their plans. They're

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Speaker 1: pulling out the rug from under a lot of their employees.

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Speaker 1: And so how should people respond. That's really what this

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Speaker 1: episode's all about. When your employer, your boss changes their tune,

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Speaker 1: what should your reaction mean?

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Speaker 2: What should you do about it? Yeah, workplace whiplash really

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Speaker 2: is the best term for it, because for a while

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Speaker 2: it seemed like nobody was going to be going back

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Speaker 2: into the office and things are looking a little differently

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Speaker 2: these days. And of course all of our listeners out there,

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Speaker 2: like folks, want to know what the future of work

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Speaker 2: is actually going to look like, what companies are asking

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Speaker 2: or what they might be asking in the future, and

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Speaker 2: then how to respond Because individuals employees made some massive

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Speaker 2: changes to their lives based on what the leadership at

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Speaker 2: the company that they work for. Some people explicitly told them.

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Speaker 1: Some people moved to another state, or some people moved

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Speaker 1: an hour away from the office because they said, well,

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Speaker 1: you told me I was never gonna have to come

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Speaker 1: back in person, and now you're changing your story. But

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Speaker 1: that doesn't change the fact that I upened in my life. Yea,

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Speaker 1: because of what you said.

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Speaker 2: They've moved the Yeah, they sold, houses, sold cars, moved,

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Speaker 2: made changes. When it comes to childcare, like around here,

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Speaker 2: man like, in order to get in someplace to where

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Speaker 2: they'll take care of your kid, a lot of times

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Speaker 2: it takes being on a wait list. You got to

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Speaker 2: plan ahead for sure. Then like, even once you make

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Speaker 2: it in, it still costs a ton of money. And

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Speaker 2: so there's a lot at stake. And specifically, I guess

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Speaker 2: I'm thinking of a story from a few weeks ago

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Speaker 2: was Farmer's Insurance. That was one where a bunch of

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Speaker 2: employees basically were revolting because they're saying, they're like, hey,

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Speaker 2: you are totally changing the game. And yeah, there was

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Speaker 2: specifically somebody that they quoted and they're like, I sold

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Speaker 2: my house in order to move closer to my grandkids.

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Speaker 2: Now what do I do? Like, these are all questions

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Speaker 2: that folks were asking, and that's what we're talking about.

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Speaker 1: And they're tough. They're tough questions to be to reckon with,

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Speaker 1: especially depending on your financial situation, depending on where you're

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Speaker 1: at in your career, stuff like that. And there was

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Speaker 1: a recent article in The Onion and it read CEO's

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Speaker 1: company wide email inspires employees to start looking for a

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Speaker 1: different job. And to me, that summed up really a

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Speaker 1: lot of what we're talking about today Onion. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: so funny, but it also hits close to home for

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Speaker 1: a lot of people, right because getting that email or

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Speaker 1: having that zoom call to rally the troops to come

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Speaker 1: back into the office, even that peppy speech, it's just

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Speaker 1: not being well received by a whole lot of people.

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Speaker 1: And Matt the director of strategy for Gallup. He said

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Speaker 1: this recently. He said changes in remote work policies can

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Speaker 1: certainly create significant risk to employee retention and engagement, depending

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Speaker 1: on how drastic the changes are and how effective effectively

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Speaker 1: they are executed by managers. And I thought that was

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Speaker 1: the most spot on thing understatement of the year. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: perhaps especially so much of it is in how it's communicated,

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Speaker 1: how it's talked about, and how these policies are implemented.

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Speaker 1: And if it's a top down, authoritarian approach, you are

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Speaker 1: going to see even if those employees stick around, probably

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Speaker 1: less productivity, less enthusiasm, and eventually some of those people

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Speaker 1: are gonna leave. So I do think that the employers

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Speaker 1: need to strongly think about how they are crafting these

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Speaker 1: policies and how they're also commuting communicating them to workers

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Speaker 1: at the same time.

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Speaker 2: Sure. Yeah, and obviously this is all because of COVID, right,

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Speaker 2: Like it's all because of the lockdowns, the pandemic that

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Speaker 2: brought us into a work from home like paradise. Essentially

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Speaker 2: that would not have happened otherwise. I really do a

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Speaker 2: coolio song, right, Gangster's Paradise, But some folks thought that

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Speaker 2: it sped things up, But I think it did more

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Speaker 2: than that, Like it created a work scenario that likely

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Speaker 2: would have never existed otherwise, so much so that we

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Speaker 2: saw the valuations of companies that facilitated working from home skyrocket.

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Speaker 2: Those stock prices shot through the roof. And that's not

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Speaker 2: really the case anymore, sorry, Like Zoom and Teledoc and

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Speaker 2: all the other companies out there.

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Speaker 1: Zoom was like worth more than exonomobile, I think it was,

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Speaker 1: and now it's it's saying, barely worth more than.

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Speaker 2: It's crazy my life, you know, honestly, just how quickly

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Speaker 2: working from home just became the new normal. And after

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Speaker 2: a prolonged time of that increased flexibility we're talking about

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Speaker 2: more than three years for many folks, your life has

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Speaker 2: probably found a new rhythm. So we certainly sympathize for

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Speaker 2: the growing pains that not only employers are facing as

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Speaker 2: they're trying to figure out how best to move forward,

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Speaker 2: but also of course for employees that is who we

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Speaker 2: are talking to.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's a similar reaction to someone who, say,

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Speaker 1: who now is confronted with having to start paying on

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Speaker 1: their student loans again? And we have been talking about

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Speaker 1: this for years now, at this point, but it was

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Speaker 1: kind of out of sight, out of mind, understandably for

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Speaker 1: a lot of people. And similarly, when work from home

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Speaker 1: became the new normal at year one, year two, year three,

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Speaker 1: you start sinking into that reality and going back to

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Speaker 1: the office becomes even more jarring. And the same thing

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Speaker 1: with those payments restartings. Assume that this is the new

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Speaker 1: normal exactly, but it's not, and so we think that

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Speaker 1: the new normal is going to become hybrid work. It

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Speaker 1: seems like the writings on the wall, that's what's happening,

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Speaker 1: the new work from home reality. By the way, it

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Speaker 1: didn't just impact how people worked to impacted the real

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Speaker 1: estate market. It affected where people wanted to live and

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Speaker 1: prices in general. It affected like in some cities Boise,

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Speaker 1: Denver in particular, they experienced massive price increases. We saw

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Speaker 1: some of those medium sized cities and more rural areas

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Speaker 1: kind of to go a little boomtown. It also impacted

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Speaker 1: commercial real estate, but in the opposite way, like office

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Speaker 1: space became less valuable as some companies disbanded in person work,

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Speaker 1: and although occupancy has ticked back up, it's still far

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Speaker 1: below what it was pre pandemic. And banks they're expecting

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Speaker 1: commercial real estate to continue to suffer. So this work

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Speaker 1: from home trend has certainly made individuals prioritize their home

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Speaker 1: and having space for working from home. But at the

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Speaker 1: same time, now that hybrid work is kind of becoming

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Speaker 1: the preferred method for a lot of employers, it's tough

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Speaker 1: to know what you need to do and how to

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Speaker 1: react as an individual too.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean it just shows just the far

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Speaker 2: reaching implications of something like working from home, how it

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Speaker 2: can have an impact on real estate, which is the

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Speaker 2: most expensive thing that anybody out there ever ever purchases.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, you're talking about it ticking back up. So

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Speaker 2: castle it's like this company they do like commercial real

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Speaker 2: estate security and like access cards basically that you like

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Speaker 2: to get into your office building. But they're saying that, like,

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Speaker 2: we're not even to like the average occupancy in major cities,

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Speaker 2: it's not even back up to fifty percent of pre pandemic,

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Speaker 2: And so we are like, that is a massive decline still,

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Speaker 2: and even though we have seen it increase a little bit,

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Speaker 2: we're not seeing it bounce back to pre pandemic anywhere

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Speaker 2: close to that.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know if we'll ever get back to

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Speaker 1: where we were then, we don't think so.

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Speaker 2: That's not necessarily a bad thing because we think the

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Speaker 2: hybrid approach is going to be the path forward. Honestly,

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Speaker 2: we even talked about this back during the early days

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Speaker 2: of Lockdowns working from Home. Specifically, we dedicated it an

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Speaker 2: entire episode to how it is that you can work

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Speaker 2: from home without going crazy. But the biggest question everyone

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Speaker 2: was asking back then was is this, you know, the

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Speaker 2: end of going into the office, is working from home

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Speaker 2: here to stay? And we're clearly seeing the answer is

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Speaker 2: sort of kind of because very clear. Hybrid totally seems

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Speaker 2: to be the official mantra of CEOs everywhere. And I

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Speaker 2: don't know if that's just because they're trying to deliver

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Speaker 2: the news with like a velvet glove, or eventually they

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Speaker 2: are planning to mandate that everyone has to come back

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Speaker 2: or what, but that is what folks are talking about

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Speaker 2: these days. And some businesses are obviously taking different tactics,

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Speaker 2: like Yelp and Etsy for instance, where they got rid

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Speaker 2: of all their offices and it's like, all right, you

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Speaker 2: can work from home, and definitely they're putting their money

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Speaker 2: where their mouth is, like literally not re signing leases.

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Speaker 2: Sure Yeah, and it kind of makes sense too, like

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Speaker 2: specifically with YELP, Like the whole point is that they

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Speaker 2: are reviewing other places, So a better way to actually

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Speaker 2: like live out that mission than to not have a

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Speaker 2: central office and go out there and explore all of

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Speaker 2: these other.

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Speaker 1: Other locations job I used to work at many Almost

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Speaker 1: nobody goes into work anymore. They have really a much

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Speaker 1: much much smaller office space skeleton crew. Yeah, ninety plus

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Speaker 1: percent of the employees work from home fuld.

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Speaker 2: It makes me think of CNN that never used to

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Speaker 2: be the big local employer here on sound like they

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Speaker 2: have had this massive campus downtown like the CNN Center.

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Speaker 2: That's right, and they've consolidated and moved to another location. Granted,

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Speaker 2: CNN is dealing with other issues as well. The folks

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Speaker 2: aren't coming into the office like they used to do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like some tiktoks get more views these

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Speaker 1: days than CNN. But companies like Google that have been

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Speaker 1: expecting their employees to be in the office more, but

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Speaker 1: now they're really really wanting folks to show up. And

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Speaker 1: they basically said that attendance is going to be tracked

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Speaker 1: via company badges. Via those badges you mentioned Matt, and

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Speaker 1: performance reviews are going to take this into account. So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: if you're showing up one or two days a week

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Speaker 1: when they want you in three, when that performance review

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Speaker 1: comes up, you might not have the best one and

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Speaker 1: it might impact your pay. In Salesforce, Matt, they went

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Speaker 1: with the carrot approach instead of the stick approach. They

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Speaker 1: said they were going to donate ten dollars per day

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Speaker 1: to a nonprofit for employees who showed up in person

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Speaker 1: over a specific range of time. But even that kind

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Speaker 1: of backfired because it was perceived as this emotionally manipulative move,

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Speaker 1: which I get. It's like ten books to your favorite

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Speaker 1: nonprofit if you show up in person, and that feels

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Speaker 1: kind of Yeah, it seems kind of crappy. It seems

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Speaker 1: crappy too. So every company is trying to take their

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Speaker 1: own approach or trying to figure this out. How do

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Speaker 1: we get people who have been so used to working

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Speaker 1: from home, to working in their pjs, to working kind

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Speaker 1: of the hours they want to not having the commute,

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Speaker 1: How do we coax them back into the office. And

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Speaker 1: it seems like almost nobody has figured out a way

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Speaker 1: to do it without upsetting the Apple.

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Speaker 2: Car sure, So it's not just companies as well, but individuals.

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Speaker 2: So of course Elon Musk is quite opinionated and shares

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Speaker 2: whatever it is he's thinking within that minute at the

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Speaker 2: moment on a whim tweets about to all his folks.

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Speaker 2: But Martha Stewart, she recently said that America is going

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Speaker 2: to go down the drain if people don't return to

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Speaker 2: the office. She's basically pointing out that, like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: we're gonna end up like France. She's like, we've all

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Speaker 2: seen how we're Frances's headed. That sounds like an overstatement,

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Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, it's a I don't know, it's difficult

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Speaker 2: to know what is actually happening versus what is being

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Speaker 2: covered in the news. But this is something that I'm

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Speaker 2: sure a lot of extroverts are out there welcoming going

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Speaker 2: back into the office, but even they are probably a

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Speaker 2: little bit conflicted. So who is right, what is the

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Speaker 2: best approach, and how is it that you should react

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Speaker 2: to this new hybrid normal. We're going to discuss all

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Speaker 2: of that right after this. All right, Matt, let's keep

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Speaker 2: talking about workplace whiplash. A lot of people are feeling

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Speaker 2: it around the country, as they have been told time

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Speaker 2: to get back into the office, and maybe they're not ready,

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Speaker 2: or maybe they are ready, but maybe not to the

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Speaker 2: extent the employer wants, or maybe it's not as flexible

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Speaker 2: as they would like it to be. And so it

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Speaker 2: is causing a lot of life consternation and kind of

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Speaker 2: just making people reconsider their careers and some of their choices,

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Speaker 2: especially after they've made massive life changes during the past

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Speaker 2: three three and a half years of pandemic life. And

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Speaker 2: part of the reason this change is taking place as

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Speaker 2: well is because the pandemic is basically over right, and

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Speaker 2: it's all also because the labor market is cooling, which

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Speaker 2: has changed the balance of power. Workers have less leverage

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Speaker 2: now than they did twelve or even six months ago

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Speaker 2: when we were talking about just how much people could

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Speaker 2: make by going down the street and applying elsewhere, and

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Speaker 2: they were just the world was full of opportunity for employees.

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Speaker 2: They were in high demand and so they could call

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Speaker 2: the shots. But one example now of that change is

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Speaker 2: meta Facebook basically having the what they're calling their Year

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Speaker 2: of Efficiency, and the layoffs we've seen happening in the

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Speaker 2: tech sector and upticks in layoffs in other sectors as well.

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Speaker 2: We've seen the highest jump in unemployment claims in the

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Speaker 2: past two years, just recently. And granted it's all relative, right,

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Speaker 2: Unemployment is still crazy low, but the tides are changing,

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Speaker 2: and so now employers are saying, we don't need you

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Speaker 2: as much as you think we do, and if we

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Speaker 2: want you back in the office, we might just even

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Speaker 2: force it down your throat. That's right. So we recorded

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Speaker 2: an episode I think I forget what we call it,

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Speaker 2: like the oncoming tsunami or tidal wave of layoffs or whatever,

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Speaker 2: And some folks said that we're kind of blowing that,

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Speaker 2: blowing it out of proportion. But like when you talk

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Speaker 2: about some of these there are a lot of companies,

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Speaker 2: like we talked about Microsoft, about Disney, Boeing, and they

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Speaker 2: were all announcing thousands and thousands of layoffs that we're

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Speaker 2: going to be coming this year. But even assuming that

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Speaker 2: folks are right and they're saying, they're like, okay, but

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Speaker 2: that's even still that's a small percentage of actual folks

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Speaker 2: who are without a job, Like you said, with employee

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Speaker 2: unemployment still at relative lows, what we're talking about here

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Speaker 2: is not just maybe what the data shows, but even

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Speaker 2: just the change and perception and folks make decisions based

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Speaker 2: on perceptions, based on the headlines, and when large companies

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Speaker 2: are making cuts like this, it signals to other companies

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Speaker 2: as to whether, maybe not whether or not they should

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Speaker 2: flyre half of their staff. But maybe it does have

434
00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:52,919
Speaker 2: more of an impact on their ability to be flexible

435
00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:55,199
Speaker 2: when it comes to some of the different requests that

436
00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:57,520
Speaker 2: their employees are making. Yeah, sometimes it's not how the

437
00:19:57,560 --> 00:19:59,520
Speaker 2: economy is doing here now, it's the perception of how

438
00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:01,520
Speaker 2: the economy going to do in the future. Absolutely, and

439
00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:05,520
Speaker 2: so I so that's worth mentioning because it is you know,

440
00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:07,080
Speaker 2: you want to get a feel for the lay of

441
00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:09,399
Speaker 2: the land, like you lick your thumbs, stick it up

442
00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:11,640
Speaker 2: to figure out which way the wind is blowing. That's

443
00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:14,040
Speaker 2: what we're what we're doing here. So that being said,

444
00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:18,159
Speaker 2: going back into the office is not all bad. So

445
00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:20,399
Speaker 2: we're gonna make a little bit of an argument for

446
00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:23,119
Speaker 2: going back into the office, the pros and the cons, because,

447
00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:26,000
Speaker 2: like what some of the CEOs are saying is based

448
00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:31,000
Speaker 2: in reality, there are some intangible and truly tangible benefits

449
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:35,520
Speaker 2: that working in person with your colleagues, working elbow to elbow,

450
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:38,720
Speaker 2: that the results that that kind of work can generate

451
00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:42,440
Speaker 2: is incredible. So going back to the Google example for

452
00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:44,639
Speaker 2: a second. Here one other executives pointed out that at

453
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,360
Speaker 2: their recent conference, most of the products that they unveiled

454
00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:50,320
Speaker 2: they were developed by teams who were there in person,

455
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,200
Speaker 2: working side by side, And so I think, I don't

456
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:55,159
Speaker 2: know if there is actual data backing this up, but

457
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:59,080
Speaker 2: the increase in productivity that comes with working in person,

458
00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:01,960
Speaker 2: I think that is a very real argument that's hard

459
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:03,320
Speaker 2: to fight back against. Agreed.

460
00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:04,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, And at some point you have to say, wait

461
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:07,639
Speaker 1: a second, it's maybe it's not just in my best interest,

462
00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:09,480
Speaker 1: but it's in the company's best interest, which is also

463
00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:11,800
Speaker 1: in my best interest, because that the more profitable this

464
00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:13,800
Speaker 1: company is, the more likely I am going to be

465
00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:17,399
Speaker 1: able to keep my job, get pay raises, and enjoy

466
00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:19,760
Speaker 1: a lengthy career here. And I would think, yeah, Google,

467
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,280
Speaker 1: at some point, if they start stop churning out products

468
00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:24,520
Speaker 1: same with a lot of different companies at the same

469
00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:28,680
Speaker 1: rate or at the same quality, they Yeah, that company

470
00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:30,600
Speaker 1: is going to feel the pinch, which in turn means you're.

471
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:31,680
Speaker 2: Going to feel eventually you will.

472
00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's not just benefits for the company. We

473
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:36,360
Speaker 1: think that a lot of folks, especially people who are

474
00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:39,280
Speaker 1: younger and earlier in their career, they can benefit from

475
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:42,919
Speaker 1: more in person at the office time too. And Jamie Diamond,

476
00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:45,040
Speaker 1: the CEO of JP Morgan Chase, he said a few

477
00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:49,200
Speaker 1: months back that remote work doesn't work. He kept it

478
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:52,840
Speaker 1: pretty pithy, and he was particularly referring to young staff

479
00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:55,840
Speaker 1: who works for him. And that's a blunt statement, but

480
00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,080
Speaker 1: he's not all that far from the truth, right. The

481
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,119
Speaker 1: hybrid model, which is kind of becoming the norm, that's

482
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,480
Speaker 1: that's what it seems like a lot of workplaces are

483
00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:06,840
Speaker 1: returning to. I think that's going to be helpful actually

484
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,040
Speaker 1: to a lot of gen zers in particular if they

485
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:10,680
Speaker 1: were working from home five days a week, to get

486
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:12,720
Speaker 1: back in the office two or three as they seek

487
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:15,560
Speaker 1: to grow in their careers and more in person time

488
00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:18,760
Speaker 1: will aid I think in skill development, and that skill

489
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,560
Speaker 1: development will lead to greater pay gains over time.

490
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:22,920
Speaker 2: So totally agree.

491
00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:25,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's it's healthier for the bottom line

492
00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:27,520
Speaker 1: of the company in many ways, it's healthier than for

493
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:30,560
Speaker 1: in particular younger workers. I think if you're well established

494
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:33,720
Speaker 1: in your career, you might have even less of a

495
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:35,440
Speaker 1: desire to go back to the office. But I think

496
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:39,399
Speaker 1: younger workers can actually make greater strides if they are

497
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:40,359
Speaker 1: in the office more often.

498
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think when you are learning the ropes for

499
00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:45,040
Speaker 2: the first time learning in real life, learning directly from

500
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:48,480
Speaker 2: another individual can certainly be a more efficient way I

501
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:53,840
Speaker 2: guess to learn an industry. Huh. Okay, So I think

502
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,199
Speaker 2: this might be like a small tangent or whatever. But

503
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,240
Speaker 2: let's talk about the I guess maybe some of the

504
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:01,640
Speaker 2: social benefits of going back into the office. So there's

505
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:05,080
Speaker 2: this new report. This is from a nonprofit group, Equamundo,

506
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,640
Speaker 2: but they release this report and specifically on American men,

507
00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:11,080
Speaker 2: and the results are pretty staggering. Man. They've found that

508
00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:13,639
Speaker 2: two thirds of young men believe that this is a

509
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,680
Speaker 2: quote that no one really knows them. And even though

510
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:19,240
Speaker 2: they focused on men, I think this conclusion can be

511
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:23,120
Speaker 2: applied to others as well. It's not that your strongest

512
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 2: social connections all of your friends should be found at work,

513
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:30,280
Speaker 2: but Americans are alone more than ever and it's producing

514
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:34,119
Speaker 2: pretty terrible results. The ability to work from home, like

515
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,439
Speaker 2: some I think, is great, but we can't discount what

516
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:39,760
Speaker 2: it is that we lose when there's none of this

517
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:42,000
Speaker 2: face to face interaction at all. Yeah, I agree.

518
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,400
Speaker 1: I mean people are lonely and some psychologists they've called

519
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,840
Speaker 1: what we're experiencing in this country a epidemic of loneliness,

520
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:51,440
Speaker 1: which I tend to agree with. There was a shock

521
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 1: to see this. This Business Insider article recently detailed how

522
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:56,679
Speaker 1: folks are turning to side hustles for a little bit

523
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 1: of extra income, but for socialization reasons too, Like they

524
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:01,679
Speaker 1: just want to connected to other people, And it's not

525
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:04,040
Speaker 1: just about the money they can make driving for uber,

526
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 1: it's about the way that they can make connections.

527
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 2: And interact with other human beings who seem to care

528
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 2: and yeah, who you can have a conversation.

529
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 1: The pandemic only just catalyzed are moved towards loneliness and

530
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:22,160
Speaker 1: towards solitude, I think. And so we're collectively craving interaction

531
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:24,240
Speaker 1: with other humans because it's what we're built for. And

532
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:26,600
Speaker 1: I think, Matt, the social connections that you're mentioning here,

533
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,919
Speaker 1: they produce more than just social benefits. It's not just

534
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:32,640
Speaker 1: that being in the office more is good because oh

535
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:35,160
Speaker 1: it's nice to see Sam or Jill or whatever and

536
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 1: to like have some water cooler talk. Like I do

537
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:41,200
Speaker 1: think that is like massively helpful from a personal standpoint,

538
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 1: But on top of that, I think that those social

539
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 1: connections foster a whole lot of potential career growth.

540
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:46,880
Speaker 2: At the same time.

541
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,119
Speaker 1: So I think there's multiple benefits to being the office

542
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:52,359
Speaker 1: more and to being more connected to the people that

543
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:52,880
Speaker 1: you work with.

544
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 2: Totally. Yeah, it's good for you as an individual from

545
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:59,119
Speaker 2: a personal holistic health standpoint because I think having friends

546
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,119
Speaker 2: and that this leads to other healthier outcomes for you

547
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 2: as an individual. But also, like you said, from a

548
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:05,360
Speaker 2: financial standpoint as well.

549
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:07,200
Speaker 1: Your friends might be like, oh, you're playing that new

550
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:09,920
Speaker 1: Zelda game six hours a day, Like that's not healthy, dude,

551
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 1: what you up to? Come hang out with us more,

552
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:13,920
Speaker 1: go for a hike, whatever, And they have the ability

553
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,959
Speaker 1: to get you out of that funk more than it's

554
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:18,600
Speaker 1: hard to get yourself out of that. But that's what

555
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:20,359
Speaker 1: pull yourself out of that other people that you might

556
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 1: find yourself can do for you.

557
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and ultimately too, I think one of the biggest

558
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:26,880
Speaker 2: pros to keep in mind is just because your boss

559
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,399
Speaker 2: wants you to write, it's like, aside from what data

560
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 2: might show and what productivity research might show that like,

561
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 2: oh no, in fact, you are able to be quite

562
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 2: as productive and collaborate with your coworkers just as much.

563
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 2: That's my nerdy researcher voice, just as much as if

564
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 2: you were there in real life. Well, it doesn't really

565
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 2: matter if your boss doesn't care. They might not care

566
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 2: about the research exactly. I might say, this is a

567
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:49,399
Speaker 2: new rule, this is top down. I don't even have

568
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 2: any say over how this typically. Yeah, And so as

569
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 2: long as you are there working under that supervisor, or

570
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 2: you have a boss that believes that it's important to

571
00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 2: keep that in mind as well, that it just might

572
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 2: be the not I don't want to call it like

573
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 2: the path of least resistance, But just because your boss

574
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 2: wants you to like that is your like the quickest

575
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,920
Speaker 2: way for you to earn more money at that company is.

576
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 1: Through your supervisor. That's not through boss. You're saying, that's

577
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 1: not an insufficient reason. That is reason enough to maybe yes,

578
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:17,960
Speaker 1: do the thing exactly exactly. But there are downsides, of course,

579
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 1: of going back to the office as well. And I

580
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 1: think we wanted to start with the pros. I guess

581
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,879
Speaker 1: because I think many folks aren't necessarily talking about the pros.

582
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,120
Speaker 1: I think a lot of folks are focusing on the cons. Again,

583
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 1: we say what we're getting to now, people have gotten

584
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,160
Speaker 1: kind of used to a life of work from home,

585
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 1: used to the added flexibility, and it's the default argument exactly.

586
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 1: And after three years, I get it that you maybe

587
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 1: kind of reject wholesale the idea of going back into

588
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,360
Speaker 1: the office at all. But that's why we wanted to highlight. Yeah,

589
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 1: well there's actually some perks, and not just perks for

590
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 1: the business, but perks for you. But there are also

591
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 1: cons that's.

592
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:55,160
Speaker 2: Right, and well, commuting specifically, I think is like rises.

593
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:57,919
Speaker 2: It's the cream that rises to the top. Yeah, for

594
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:01,160
Speaker 2: anybody who no longer has to commute, but yeah, getting

595
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 2: of the car, driving a long distance, wasting time, wasting

596
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 2: money that you had otherwise that you were able to

597
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,639
Speaker 2: bring back into your personal life, Like that is one

598
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,440
Speaker 2: of the big ones. And I will say commuting is

599
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 2: not all bad, right, depending on what it is that

600
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 2: your commute looks like. But we did do an episode

601
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:18,640
Speaker 2: like way back in the day, and I still remember

602
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 2: this title, but your commute is killing You. And that

603
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 2: was like early early on, that was like first year

604
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:25,720
Speaker 2: of podcasts. Yeah, this is a long time ago, and

605
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,680
Speaker 2: back in the days, we still mostly feel this way. Yeah,

606
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,119
Speaker 2: the commuting is mostly a waste of time, and you

607
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 2: should live closer to where you work and all that

608
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,359
Speaker 2: kind of stuff. That's right. Well, yeah, seeing if you

609
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:37,679
Speaker 2: can bike, when you can carpooling with coworkers, that's a

610
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 2: way that for you to facilitate some of that social

611
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:41,919
Speaker 2: connection as well. Those are all ways to make the

612
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,879
Speaker 2: commute less vicious. But if you live farther away, you know,

613
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:46,920
Speaker 2: and you've clawed back an hour or two of your

614
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,680
Speaker 2: life thanks to working from home home, I totally get

615
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 2: your reticence to give it up and to even go

616
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 2: back into the office even two days a week.

617
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't imagine going from a zero hour commute

618
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,359
Speaker 1: to a two or two plus hour commute every day.

619
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:02,159
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's ten hours of your life. Or

620
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 1: let's say you're doing the hybrid thing, Let's say that's

621
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 1: six hours of your life sucked back dry every day

622
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 1: and all the logistics that go along with that, especially

623
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,879
Speaker 1: if you have kids, no fun and sitting in the

624
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 1: car for that long sucks like and it's not it's

625
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 1: not a good sustainable thing for most folks.

626
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:20,160
Speaker 2: Over a long period of time. I mean and back

627
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,640
Speaker 2: on that episode we talked about how it's literally killing you,

628
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 2: like essentially we believe it's just bad for your health. Yeah. Yeah.

629
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:27,199
Speaker 1: One of the things that you and I we love

630
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 1: about our commute to this our little how to money clubhouse.

631
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:31,919
Speaker 1: We get the bike and it's literally three quarters of

632
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 1: a mile like where it's a six minute commute maybe,

633
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:36,399
Speaker 1: and you know, we get some sunlight, We get a

634
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:37,360
Speaker 1: bit of exercise, like.

635
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 2: Ten or fifteen minutes for me, is it okay?

636
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 1: It's a little a little bit longer, little for like

637
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 1: I take my time, you know what, like a mile

638
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 1: and a quarter maybe, And I don't know. It's just

639
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:46,239
Speaker 1: a really healthy way to start the day, even though

640
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 1: we're not going on like a big or as twenty

641
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 1: minute bike ride or thirty minute bike ride. That little

642
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 1: bit gets the blood flowing, gets me excited to kind

643
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 1: of come in some fresh air.

644
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, get some of that that Peter Atilla sunlight exposure

645
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 2: to make sure that your sleeps like those are falling

646
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 2: into place like they're supposed to.

647
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 1: Be exactly well. And you know that the way a

648
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 1: lot of people have done things for a lot of

649
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 1: years in this country. It's from the house to the car,

650
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 1: to the office, then back to the car and then

651
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 1: the house again. And when done on repeat, that can

652
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 1: be a really dismal way to live. And you are

653
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 1: missing out on nature and sunlight and physicality and all

654
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 1: of the above. So, yeah, you're right. I mean, I

655
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 1: think if you're in a lengthy commute day after day,

656
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 1: it has adverse effects in the here and now, but

657
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 1: also over a longer period of time, those things compound,

658
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 1: and just like you returns into four one k compound,

659
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 1: but they're compounding to your detriment.

660
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. And this isn't to say like that if

661
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 2: you were to work from home that you're automatically going

662
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 2: to be healthier and that you're going to all of

663
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 2: a sudden be you know, like you're going to take

664
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 2: one hour of walks during your lunch break. Can Now

665
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,239
Speaker 2: I work from home and I have this freedom, we

666
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 2: envision life being that way, but I think very few

667
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 2: folks actually go through and take those steps I think

668
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 2: implement some of these healthy behaviors. I think if you

669
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 2: work from home, it's really important to kind of come

670
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 2: up with your own commute. Maybe that might be a

671
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 2: five minute walk around the block before you start, but

672
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 2: creating that space in between home life and work life,

673
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 2: even if you work from home. I think it's a

674
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 2: really healthy thing to try. Yeah, okay, I think some

675
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 2: folks would say, like, that's one of the few upsides

676
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 2: to having a commute, right, is the ability to create silos,

677
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 2: to kind of differentiate and create boundaries between your work

678
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 2: and home life. But again, it doesn't automatically mean that

679
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 2: you're going to do those things. But working from home

680
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 2: does allow you to technically have a framework or have

681
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 2: some time that you no longer are Like you said, Joel,

682
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 2: commuting say six hours a week, that is a lot

683
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 2: of time that you can dedicate towards a healthier life. Well.

684
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 1: And also, most people don't factor in that how much

685
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 1: that commute impacts what they're actually earning. Right, So I

686
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 1: think if you factor in your job not as a

687
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 1: forty hour a week job, but as a forty six

688
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 1: hour a week job, oh yeah, it's like, oh my

689
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 1: hourly rate just went down, because just.

690
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 2: Went down significantly.

691
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 1: Your work your work requirements extend outside of just kind

692
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 1: of the nine to five office hours or whatever that

693
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:00,120
Speaker 1: and some people work more hours than that. Anyway, you

694
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 1: have to figure out the overall financial implications of the

695
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 1: work you're doing. And I think for a lot of

696
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 1: people that commute, maybe if you're not kind of thinking

697
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 1: about your job and the fact that your hourly rate,

698
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 1: it might not be as good as as you think

699
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 1: it is.

700
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 2: That's right. I keep that in mind next time you

701
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 2: hit a load of traffic, right, imagine your hourly wage dropping.

702
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 2: But I agree it certainly impacts your finances as well,

703
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 2: because the more you work from home, especially if it's

704
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 2: been a more permanent situation, it allows a lot of

705
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 2: folks the ability to cut a car from their life.

706
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 2: You can see a big chunk of money each and

707
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 2: every month. Not to mention, of course, just the actual

708
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 2: cost of gas of you know, fueling up your vehicle

709
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 2: to get to work.

710
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 1: It's really the appreciation, the insurance, all the other stuff

711
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 1: on top of that.

712
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 2: And it's, oh man, if these are real costs that

713
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 2: we're talking about here, like real dollars that you are

714
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 2: spending in order to commute to work, and if your car.

715
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 1: Is mostly a get to work sort of vehicle, like

716
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 1: that's something else that's really kind of going against you

717
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 1: from a pay standpoint, and it's lowering your hourly.

718
00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 2: Wage, and so in addition to just the cost of

719
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 2: transfer roation, just with the flexibility that working from home offers,

720
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 2: A big con of having to go back into the

721
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 2: office is that a lot of folks are no longer

722
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 2: going to be able to save when it comes to

723
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 2: the ability to cut childcare costs from their lives. The

724
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 2: ability to work from home, it gives you a taste

725
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 2: of flexibility, I mean, like being like owning our own business.

726
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 2: That's I think that's tops right, Like the ability for

727
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 2: us to work during the hours that we want to

728
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 2: and to kind of set our schedule. And folks who

729
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 2: didn't have to go into the office, they got a

730
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 2: taste of that. Yeah, And I think that's one of

731
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 2: the big too, that running your own business is actually

732
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 2: harder in some ways because certainly in some ways, yeah,

733
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 2: because you might be on call more than you'd like to. Sure,

734
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 2: but yeah, it's up to the individual, I guess to

735
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 2: decide how on call they want to be. But bottom line,

736
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 2: you and I like we've got way more like, yes,

737
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 2: there's additional responsibility, but we've got the most flexibility. Like

738
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 2: if we want to say, hey, we're gonna not work

739
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 2: next week because you're going to live in Florida for

740
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 2: a week, which is like, actually true, is actually happening.

741
00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 2: We have the ability to do that, and folks have

742
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:01,720
Speaker 2: had a taste of right as they've been able to

743
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:04,720
Speaker 2: work from home. Even just the daily chores that we

744
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 2: have to, Like you went to the DMV last week,

745
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 2: that's not something you can wait to do after five

746
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 2: o'clock because typically the government office and they close that vibe.

747
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 2: Or it's not just stuff that you have to do,

748
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 2: but things that you want to do, like going to

749
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 2: have lunch with your kid at school, that's not something

750
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 2: you can do after five o'clock as well. It's so

751
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 2: it's important to think through some of these additional costs

752
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:28,239
Speaker 2: and I guess the flexibility that you've given up. But

753
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 2: in addition to I guess the flexibility I'm thinking of.

754
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 2: So we're talking about costs, there's like these tertiary costs

755
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 2: associated with going into the office as well. I bet

756
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 2: there's a lot of folks who haven't really updated their

757
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 2: wardrobe since the pandemic kicked in because they're like, would

758
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 2: you look at me like that? I'm always looking at

759
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 2: it regard but we don't really have to because we

760
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 2: come again, we just come into our t shirts and

761
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 2: shorts every day exactly. But for folks who are there's

762
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 2: a certain expectation when you go into a certain kind

763
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 2: of office that you are dressed a certain way. And

764
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 2: even if you're just zooming in, at the very least,

765
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 2: all you need is like a decent shirt, you know,

766
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 2: but you ain't got to worry about your from the

767
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 2: waist down. But when you go to the office, you

768
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:08,720
Speaker 2: gotta wear about your shoes, your you know, your pants.

769
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 2: But then again, financial impacts. I'm thinking of the temptation

770
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:16,400
Speaker 2: to spend more money, so like going out for lunch,

771
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 2: having friends of the office. It's like a blessing endocurse,

772
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 2: I guess. But you're you're also going to be more

773
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 2: tempted to spend your money in more frivolous ways, like

774
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 2: going out to eat, because that's what everybody's doing. Yeah,

775
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 2: you get pulled into a certain lifestyle that you may

776
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:34,360
Speaker 2: not if you're naturally frugal, you may not naturally be

777
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 2: thinking as you're working from home, oh yeah, I want

778
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 2: to go out to eat today for lunch. Like you're no,

779
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:40,359
Speaker 2: you're probably gonna eat the leftovers. But if you are

780
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 2: surrounded by folks who are doing that, then that can

781
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 2: have a relatively small impact. But again, those small expenses

782
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 2: build in compound over time.

783
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,320
Speaker 1: Well that's why I think this hybrid approach that a

784
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 1: lot of employers seem to be taking. They seem to

785
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:54,520
Speaker 1: be saying, listen, we're not pulling the rug all the

786
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:56,239
Speaker 1: way out, but we do want you to come back

787
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 1: in two or three days a week is probably the

788
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 1: healthiest for the company and for the end of visual

789
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 1: But I get that it's also not as easy as that,

790
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 1: and everybody has a different cost benefit analysis that they

791
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:08,799
Speaker 1: have to run in their own lives. So we're going

792
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:10,319
Speaker 1: to get to We're going to talk about what to

793
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:12,839
Speaker 1: do if your company is saying is calling you back

794
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 1: into the office, and how do you respond. We'll get

795
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:17,480
Speaker 1: to some of our thoughts on that right after this.

796
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 2: All right, we are back, and let's continue our discussion

797
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 2: about the workplace slash, working from home whiplash that a

798
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 2: lot of folks have experienced. And of course we need

799
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:40,320
Speaker 2: to address the fact that different businesses and different industries

800
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 2: they've got different needs for in person collaboration. We've been

801
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:46,759
Speaker 2: talking about sports. I guess I feel like more with

802
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 2: just the messy signing in Miami. But like, I don't

803
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 2: know if professional athletes listen to our podcast. Mess definitely listens.

804
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 1: He's trying to figure out how do I spend How

805
00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 1: I spend that one hundred and fifty million year or.

806
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,319
Speaker 2: Whatever he's getting now the dollars. Yeah, But like if

807
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:06,239
Speaker 2: you are an NBA player and you're listening, like you

808
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:09,280
Speaker 2: can't work from home, and some of the anger, honestly

809
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:11,799
Speaker 2: that the laptop class is expressing it, Like, I think

810
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 2: it wrangles folks in the service industry who have been

811
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:16,840
Speaker 2: going into work all along, like ever since you know,

812
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 2: they were considered was the term necessary workers? Oh? Essential workers? Yeah?

813
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 1: Anyway, Yeah, Well, which both of my parents were. My

814
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:25,920
Speaker 1: mom's a nurse and my dad stocked grocery store shelves

815
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 1: and so because a very in person job. And they

816
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 1: were also more at risk because they were older. And

817
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,839
Speaker 1: I get that that maybe some of the moaning from

818
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:35,120
Speaker 1: the laptop class. I think it it made them a

819
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 1: little annoyed too, because they're like, listen, I'm I'm going

820
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 1: in here every day risking my life.

821
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 2: Sure, and there are a lot.

822
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 1: Of people who are upset if they have to come

823
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 1: work in person a couple of days a week. So yeah,

824
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 1: there is a divide there between kind of the laptop

825
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 1: class and the service industry folks totally.

826
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 2: And that's worth worth mentioning because, like so much of

827
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 2: this trend, like how it is that it impacts you,

828
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:55,319
Speaker 2: It depends on the kind of work that you do.

829
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 2: We understand that there's a lot of folks out there

830
00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:59,400
Speaker 2: who don't have the luxury. They don't have the choice

831
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:01,760
Speaker 2: to say, Okay, what am I going to do now? Okay,

832
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 2: I can't do anything right to what I've always been

833
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:05,840
Speaker 2: doing for the past, you know, ten years or so.

834
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 1: So let's talk about how you react as an individual

835
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:10,759
Speaker 1: worker if you do have that ability, if you've got

836
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,359
Speaker 1: the ability, and you you are the kind of person

837
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 1: who can and has been working from home, And part

838
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:18,799
Speaker 1: of it starts with kind of beginning a discussion with

839
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:21,880
Speaker 1: your employer. And and you know, we mentioned earlier that

840
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 1: employees don't have as much leverage as they had, say

841
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 1: a year or two ago, when you know, employees were

842
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:30,840
Speaker 1: in massive, massive, high demand and they were getting paid fifteen,

843
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:33,760
Speaker 1: twenty percent, thirty percent more to move on down the road,

844
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 1: and basically, your wish is my command. But my goodness,

845
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 1: it's worth having a conversation with your manager to see

846
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 1: what sort of arrangement you can work out if they

847
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 1: make this call for you to come back and into work,

848
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:47,440
Speaker 1: whether it's full time or hybrid, And especially if you're

849
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:50,400
Speaker 1: one of those people who made significant life changes like

850
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:53,319
Speaker 1: moving farther from the office or whatever, it's it's worth

851
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 1: having that conversation. Be respectful, be kind, but push for

852
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 1: a more flexible arrangement. And you know, there might be

853
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 1: some employees who are hard and fast, right, and this

854
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 1: is the way it's got to be. But I think

855
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 1: other employers might be sympathetic to the changes you've made

856
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 1: in your life and they might be willing to make

857
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 1: an excepsion.

858
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:13,760
Speaker 2: But you don't know. If you don't have the conversation exactly,

859
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 2: you are not going to receive if you don't ask.

860
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:17,799
Speaker 2: And I think it comes down to being specific as well.

861
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 2: And so if you have a boss like outline how

862
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 2: it is that you are still going to accomplish the

863
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:24,719
Speaker 2: same goals that you had been be specific when it

864
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 2: comes to okay, this is how I'm going to continue

865
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 2: to be able to work on this project and be

866
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 2: just as productive. But I also think too, if you've

867
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:35,720
Speaker 2: got a boss who's maybe worried about like your timeliness

868
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 2: because they're like, well, I know you're working from home,

869
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:40,320
Speaker 2: but you're kind of working all sorts of odd hours

870
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:42,719
Speaker 2: of the day or night. I think it's worth being

871
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 2: specific here as well, in kind of outlining, well, this

872
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 2: is what my typical day is going to look like

873
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 2: in a pro You know, it's not going to be

874
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 2: the exact same every single day, but like, generally speaking,

875
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 2: this is kind of when I'm expecting that I'll be

876
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 2: able to work when I when I don't want to work.

877
00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:00,160
Speaker 2: This It makes me think of conversation we have with

878
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 2: Alex Carter about getting paid what you're worth. And she

879
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 2: had a client somebody that she was advising, and one

880
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 2: of the things that that executive she wanted to make

881
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:12,480
Speaker 2: sure that she was basically like off the clock from

882
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:14,880
Speaker 2: like four pm to eight pm or something like that,

883
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 2: basically whenever her kids were home from school. She wanted

884
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:20,759
Speaker 2: it was like a blackout period and she was not accessible.

885
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 2: That was very important to her.

886
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 1: She's like, listen, I'll respond to emails from eight to

887
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:25,920
Speaker 1: nine though for the fact, yes, I'll get back to you.

888
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:30,760
Speaker 2: So even just communicating and not leaving it like unknown

889
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,399
Speaker 2: as to when it is that you will be getting back.

890
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 2: I think that's the way that you can kind of

891
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:38,759
Speaker 2: head off some of these, you know, possible hang ups

892
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:40,319
Speaker 2: that your employer or that your boss might have.

893
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's easy to say you promised her, but I've

894
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 1: been doing this for years and I've been just fine,

895
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 1: and to be combative in that, but you can say,

896
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 1: wait a second, Hey, guess what. I think I've been

897
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 1: more productive and actually I think I've dedicated more hours

898
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:53,759
Speaker 1: to working because guess what, I'm not commuting now and

899
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 1: it's allowing me for more flexibility, more joy, And guess

900
00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 1: I love this job and I don't want to. I mean,

901
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 1: there's a way to approach the conversation way that highlights

902
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 1: the win win abilities of you continue to work from home,

903
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 1: you know more than the boss that maybe wants you to.

904
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 1: And there's also a way to annoy them and to

905
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:13,799
Speaker 1: say no, wait, we're not breaking the rules for you.

906
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 1: So so much comes down to your approach, in your

907
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 1: tone exactly, and the way you're able to talk about

908
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:23,720
Speaker 1: how you contribute to the company. And it's also important

909
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:25,880
Speaker 1: to mention that you might need to look elsewhere.

910
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:26,880
Speaker 2: Right, If you're great.

911
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 1: At your job and your employer is taking that my

912
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 1: way or the highway approach, well, you know you might

913
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:35,399
Speaker 1: need to move on and mosey on down the road

914
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,840
Speaker 1: and find greener pastures. And so, I mean more flexible

915
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 1: employers are likely to want your services again if you're

916
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:44,799
Speaker 1: good at what you do, and so pay bumps for

917
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 1: taking a job across the street. They have diminished. It's

918
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 1: not nearly as lucrative as it was for a while

919
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,840
Speaker 1: to switch jobs, but still there is still a premium.

920
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:55,800
Speaker 1: You're going to get paid more in all likelihood, and

921
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 1: the labor market is still doing quite well, and so

922
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 1: there's still more job openings than people who looking for jobs.

923
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:05,319
Speaker 1: That means you don't necessarily have to take this one

924
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:06,799
Speaker 1: on the chin. If it doesn't work for your family,

925
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 1: if it doesn't work for your lifestyle, I would say,

926
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 1: turn to the job boards, turn to your network. If

927
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 1: the new hybrid model or the new in the office

928
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 1: model isn't working for you, and it's not working for

929
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:22,200
Speaker 1: the lifestyle that you have created for your family, for yourself,

930
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 1: then there's no reason to really just kind of grain

931
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 1: and bear it.

932
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:27,239
Speaker 2: That's right, and we kind of briefly touched on one

933
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:30,319
Speaker 2: of the benefits of owning your own business, the flexibility

934
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:33,160
Speaker 2: that comes with that. But working for yourself is another

935
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 2: great option that's worth mentioning here because a lot of

936
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:39,400
Speaker 2: folks they actually went this direction during the during the

937
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 2: heart of the pandemic. Honestly, we saw the number of

938
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:44,879
Speaker 2: small businesses increase in a massive way, which is great.

939
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 2: I think it like the number of new business applications

940
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:51,080
Speaker 2: doubled within that first year during the pandemic. And a

941
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:54,840
Speaker 2: traditional job is nice in many ways. It certainly feels

942
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 2: like the safest option. But if you've got the skills

943
00:41:57,640 --> 00:41:59,359
Speaker 2: and if you've got the gumption to go out there

944
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:03,240
Speaker 2: on your own, if you can handle that additional responsibility,

945
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:06,319
Speaker 2: you might find that you're able to make significantly more

946
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:07,800
Speaker 2: money than if you were employed.

947
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 1: The responsibility and the uncertainty.

948
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 2: Well, but that's the thing. There's uncertainty when it comes

949
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:14,440
Speaker 2: to any job that you have. That's true. It feels

950
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 2: like a job by a company like Microsoft, who's been

951
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:21,880
Speaker 2: around for ages, feels super secure. But again, they're one

952
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 2: of the companies that's significantly cutting back this year. Yep.

953
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:27,160
Speaker 2: And you've got more just control over your own destiny.

954
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:30,279
Speaker 2: This obviously isn't something that you can do overnight. But

955
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 2: if your employer isn't budging, well, then your perfect exit

956
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 2: strategy or your perfect off ramp could be building up

957
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 2: a side hustle that eventually you're able to convert into

958
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 2: a full time gig. Yeah. I totally agree.

959
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:43,920
Speaker 1: All right, So let's talk about the financial side of

960
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:47,440
Speaker 1: this too, because yeah, I love that there's a few

961
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:50,840
Speaker 1: different options you have if you're not necessarily down with

962
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 1: the route that your employer is going and they're saying, hey,

963
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:55,439
Speaker 1: we want you back in the office, and you're saying, yeah,

964
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:57,960
Speaker 1: that doesn't work for me anymore, especially after three years

965
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 1: of realizing a completely different way of life. Well, the

966
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 1: money side, you know, being more financially prepared, that allows

967
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 1: you to push back, That allows you to have this

968
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 1: conversation without just doing exactly what your employer requires of you.

969
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:16,439
Speaker 2: It allows you to have the fortitude to go out

970
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 2: and start kind of take a risk on starting your

971
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:19,279
Speaker 2: own business. Yeah.

972
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:20,799
Speaker 1: I mean, the more money you have saved, the more

973
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:24,240
Speaker 1: options you have at your disposal. And that's why freedom, freedom,

974
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 1: we always push this is such a better use of money.

975
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:29,640
Speaker 1: In our opinion, than buying a fancy car or whatever. Right,

976
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 1: it's not that if money were no object, Matt, that

977
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 1: I wouldn't drive something nicer, that I wouldn't have a

978
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:37,040
Speaker 1: Rivian sitting in my driveway or something like that. Right,

979
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:39,319
Speaker 1: I think those those are awesome cars. It's just that

980
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:41,520
Speaker 1: I'm not going to buy it because I just don't

981
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 1: value it to the extent that it takes precedence over

982
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 1: my freedom.

983
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:47,880
Speaker 2: You are then handcuffed to your possessions. Yeah, and hopefully

984
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:51,480
Speaker 2: you know in your case, not financing the decisions and

985
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:52,440
Speaker 2: the things that you've purchased.

986
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:54,919
Speaker 1: Right, but still, but dollars aren't endless, and I would

987
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 1: rather have the freedom if I'm making a choice. And

988
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 1: so if you don't want to go back in the office,

989
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 1: you know, quitting is an option while you're figuring things out.

990
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 1: But you can only really do that if you've saved

991
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:05,440
Speaker 1: up a decent chunk of what we call peace out money.

992
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:05,839
Speaker 2: That's right.

993
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:08,799
Speaker 1: The more cash you have in your bank account, the

994
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:10,400
Speaker 1: more options you have at your disposal on the more

995
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:13,799
Speaker 1: comfortable you can feel saying, yeah, sorry, this doesn't work

996
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:15,760
Speaker 1: for me. I'm taking my talents in a different direction.

997
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:18,280
Speaker 1: To South Beach or whatever Lebron James said at that time.

998
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:21,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I totally agree. Like, the more financial freedom

999
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 2: that you can agrue, the more you can react. However

1000
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:27,440
Speaker 2: it is that you want to when or or if

1001
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:29,400
Speaker 2: your boss says that you got to come into the

1002
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:32,320
Speaker 2: office a little more often for the rest of your life.

1003
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 2: Because if you're well established in your career and if

1004
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:38,359
Speaker 2: you feel more productive at home, like you might decide, well,

1005
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 2: I don't want to do that anymore. And if you've

1006
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:41,799
Speaker 2: got the cash in the bank to back you up,

1007
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:43,879
Speaker 2: you might not have to. If you have the cash

1008
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:46,560
Speaker 2: in the bank to vacuate, like, you have the ability

1009
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:49,800
Speaker 2: to make the decision that's best for you. You can. Again,

1010
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:51,880
Speaker 2: you get to chart your own course. You are in

1011
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:54,840
Speaker 2: control more of your destiny and partial because of the

1012
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 2: fact that you didn't buy that Rivian that's right. Yeah,

1013
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,480
Speaker 2: it's saying no to certain expenses. That way, Again, you're

1014
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:03,359
Speaker 2: not tied to the previous financial decisions that you've made

1015
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 2: in the past that dictate where you go in the future.

1016
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, and let's talk about incentives for a second, Matt,

1017
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:10,400
Speaker 1: because what you want and what your employer want are

1018
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:14,680
Speaker 1: not the same. Typically and I think people know that instinctively,

1019
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:17,359
Speaker 1: but it's also important to name that because you, as

1020
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 1: an individual, you likely you've likely got some competing incentives

1021
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:23,000
Speaker 1: going on as well, and some of those aren't crystal

1022
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 1: clear to us either. Of course, you want a paycheck,

1023
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:28,719
Speaker 1: but you have to ask yourself other important questions during

1024
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 1: this time too, like what are your biggest work priorities.

1025
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:33,719
Speaker 1: It's important to name those and even to write them down.

1026
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:37,360
Speaker 1: What do you value most about your job, what lifestyle

1027
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:40,640
Speaker 1: and career best serves you and your family's interests? And

1028
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:42,759
Speaker 1: how long could you survive without a paycheck? Those are

1029
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 1: all really good questions to start asking yourself right now,

1030
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:48,880
Speaker 1: you know, because life and money they're all about trade offs.

1031
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 1: It's it's never a slam donkeysy decision, and you've got

1032
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:53,839
Speaker 1: to figure out ever is it right? Yeah, you got

1033
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:55,640
Speaker 1: to figure out which ones you can and which ones

1034
00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 1: you're willing to make. But I think starting to ask

1035
00:45:58,040 --> 00:46:00,400
Speaker 1: those questions will help inform you. Wait a second, and yeah, no,

1036
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:02,799
Speaker 1: we really do value this lifestyle we've developed, and I'd

1037
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:05,479
Speaker 1: be willing to make less money to continue to live

1038
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:07,960
Speaker 1: in this place and to have the lifestyle we have

1039
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:10,440
Speaker 1: when we step back and look, we have more options,

1040
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 1: I think than we think in the moment.

1041
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:14,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, and on the flip side, maybe you take a

1042
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 2: look at your life and you think, well, yes, we've

1043
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:18,920
Speaker 2: been living this way, but I don't necessarily need to.

1044
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 2: And if I have the ability maybe to advance more

1045
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 2: in my career and that's a goal to hit certain

1046
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:26,719
Speaker 2: financial milestones, then maybe you do decide to go back in.

1047
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:30,040
Speaker 2: As long as you are proactively asking these questions, that

1048
00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:31,680
Speaker 2: is the biggest thing that we want to make sure

1049
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 2: folks are doing. But we also want to point out

1050
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:37,520
Speaker 2: that the contract between the employer and the employee, that

1051
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:40,719
Speaker 2: it has changed significantly over the years. Because you might

1052
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:44,600
Speaker 2: be told that employees are treated like family here, and

1053
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:46,799
Speaker 2: the people who are telling you that like they might

1054
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 2: even believe it. And there's nothing wrong with thinking that

1055
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:52,759
Speaker 2: your coworkers are pretty well, you like them, you like

1056
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 2: going out to drinks together after work, you like talking

1057
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:58,160
Speaker 2: about personal stuff. There's nothing wrong with liking your job

1058
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 2: or even kind of buying into the mission of your employer.

1059
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:04,200
Speaker 2: Is like, I think it's important to identify the work

1060
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:06,080
Speaker 2: that you do that on a surface level might look

1061
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 2: like just being a cog in the machine to the

1062
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:12,200
Speaker 2: sort of larger purpose and the way specifically that you're

1063
00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:14,279
Speaker 2: making the world a better place. But you also have

1064
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:17,040
Speaker 2: to take care of yourself and your family, and we

1065
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:19,440
Speaker 2: want you to do that on a financial level as well,

1066
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:22,720
Speaker 2: So cutting spending and saving more money, it gives you

1067
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 2: more options in that way. When that work family turns

1068
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:28,320
Speaker 2: out to be a bit dysfunctional, well then you know

1069
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:30,279
Speaker 2: you have the ability to get out move on to

1070
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:31,280
Speaker 2: those greener pastures.

1071
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:35,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, and work families end up being as dysfunctional, if

1072
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 1: not more than your traditional family. And man, I think

1073
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:40,400
Speaker 1: there seem to be kind of two prevailing views on

1074
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 1: work this day. One is a work is bad and

1075
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:46,840
Speaker 1: the other is that work should basically be fulfilling to

1076
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:49,600
Speaker 1: all of us as individuals on an existential level. And

1077
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 1: I don't think either of those narratives is true, and

1078
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 1: neither are good. I heard someone say recently that twenty

1079
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:58,120
Speaker 1: years from now, the only people who will remember that

1080
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:00,919
Speaker 1: you worked late are your kids. That's a truth bomb

1081
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:03,120
Speaker 1: right there, right, That's like, I'm pretty sure my wife

1082
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:06,759
Speaker 1: read that somewhere too, and then then checks that's in

1083
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:09,319
Speaker 1: me after coming home late two or three days in

1084
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 1: a row, guess what, I'm gonna guilt you into getting

1085
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 1: home on time. Well, you know, I think you and

1086
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 1: I we hope that you know, whether people, whether our

1087
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:18,399
Speaker 1: listeners are doing full time work from home, whether doing that,

1088
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:20,640
Speaker 1: they're doing the hybrid thing, whether they're working for themselves

1089
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:22,959
Speaker 1: or they're in person all the time, five days a week,

1090
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 1: that they can strike a balance in their work life.

1091
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 1: And it's important to try to enjoy what you do,

1092
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:30,000
Speaker 1: like you just said, connect it to the greater mission

1093
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:33,200
Speaker 1: of what your your employer is trying to accomplish, or

1094
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 1: if you're self employed, what you're trying to accomplish, but

1095
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:38,120
Speaker 1: also know that your job will never love you back.

1096
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:42,040
Speaker 1: And so let's maybe have a more sober view of

1097
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:45,799
Speaker 1: work instead of the kind of culturally biased I think

1098
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 1: views that we've that have become ingrained in.

1099
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:51,400
Speaker 2: Us depending on whichever political side you happen to be on,

1100
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 2: I feel like takes different It's not politics, but it's

1101
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:55,520
Speaker 2: just different views of what it is that you know,

1102
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 2: the kind.

1103
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:57,799
Speaker 1: Of role that works with work is ultimately not going

1104
00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:00,960
Speaker 1: to satisfy you right in the ways that other more

1105
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:03,960
Speaker 1: important things in life can. But work is also we

1106
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:07,319
Speaker 1: think a fundamental good and there's a lot of good

1107
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:08,600
Speaker 1: you can do and a lot of joy you can

1108
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:10,799
Speaker 1: derive from it, But you got to you gotta find

1109
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:14,520
Speaker 1: that happy medium. And hopefully this episode helps you navigate

1110
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:17,000
Speaker 1: kind of your world of work and what it looks like.

1111
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:20,440
Speaker 1: If your employer says, come on back into the office,

1112
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:22,800
Speaker 1: you know it might not be all bad, but you

1113
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:25,439
Speaker 1: also might have the ability to push back in ways

1114
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:27,440
Speaker 1: where it doesn't make sense, it doesn't work for your

1115
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:28,240
Speaker 1: life and for your family.

1116
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 2: That's right, man, All right, let's shift gears and get

1117
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:33,320
Speaker 2: back to the beer. You and I and we split

1118
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:37,719
Speaker 2: a quite ostentatious testimony. As a non sequitor, this is

1119
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:42,800
Speaker 2: a burial stout. It's an imperial stat with decaf coffee

1120
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:45,800
Speaker 2: toasted macadamia milk? Is that just I guess the water

1121
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:48,879
Speaker 2: that macadamia nuts? Oh milk or it's like almond milk,

1122
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:51,479
Speaker 2: same thing, right? So then do they I guess no water?

1123
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:55,880
Speaker 2: Then they must crush the macadamia to extract the milk. Perhaps,

1124
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:58,480
Speaker 2: But also it's got vanilla bean. Did you taste all

1125
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 2: those all those things? I think it did? I think did?

1126
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:04,000
Speaker 1: I definitely tasted macadamia and it's it's got a sweetness

1127
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:07,160
Speaker 1: to it, which vanilla often often possesses, right, And so

1128
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:10,800
Speaker 1: I thought it was good for this was a beastly stout.

1129
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm glad you and I are share. Like it

1130
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:16,759
Speaker 2: wouldn't be good bottle of it wouldn't be good. You

1131
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:18,680
Speaker 2: wouldn't be able to buy home. You and I are sharing,

1132
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:20,279
Speaker 2: and that's that's a good thing. Yeah.

1133
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:23,840
Speaker 1: Well, it was a sweet, a sweet stout, and sometimes

1134
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 1: that's turned you off because you you weren't into the sweetness. No, No,

1135
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:28,239
Speaker 1: I liked it because it wasn't overly sweet, but it was.

1136
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:30,680
Speaker 1: I think sometimes these bigger, more beastly stouts they end

1137
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:34,120
Speaker 1: up being really bitter because they're usually like Russian imperial stouts,

1138
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:36,640
Speaker 1: and this one had more milk stout vibes going like

1139
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:38,040
Speaker 1: a pastry dessert stout.

1140
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:38,439
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1141
00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:41,560
Speaker 3: I love the balance that this one, as long as

1142
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:44,120
Speaker 3: it has the flavors to accompany that sweetness. That's how

1143
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:45,920
Speaker 3: I feel about it, right, Because sometimes you just have

1144
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:48,400
Speaker 3: nothing but flavor and it can come across as harsh

1145
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:52,440
Speaker 3: or brash. But when you have the right sour, bitter

1146
00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:55,560
Speaker 3: or sweet notes to accompany those different flavors that you're

1147
00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:57,239
Speaker 3: kind of pulling out of a beer. I think it

1148
00:50:57,280 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 3: can be really good. But yeah, man, I'm glad you

1149
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 3: and I got to enjoy this beer. But that's going

1150
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:01,920
Speaker 3: to be it for this episode.

1151
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:04,480
Speaker 2: Listeners can find some of the different resources from the

1152
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:07,560
Speaker 2: different episodes that we mentioned in particular during this episode

1153
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:11,240
Speaker 2: up on our website at howdomoney dot com. So until

1154
00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:14,200
Speaker 2: next time, Best Friends Out Bests Friends Out,