1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:11,640 Speaker 1: M h. Welcome to Strictly Business, Varieties weekly podcast featuring 2 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: conversations with industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. 3 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:20,280 Speaker 1: I'm Cynthia Littleton, co editor in chief of Variety. Today's 4 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:23,400 Speaker 1: Strictly Business Interview comes from the south By Southwest Conference 5 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: in Austin, Texas on March fifteenth. I interviewed two major 6 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 1: players for a keynote session about the state of the 7 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 1: content business. Handle Media co CEO Kevin Mayer is a 8 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 1: former Disney executive who has been making waves in Hollywood 9 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:39,279 Speaker 1: as he has been out shopping with a big checkbook 10 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: for content assets. Media Link CEO Michael Casson is a 11 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:46,560 Speaker 1: well known deal maker in the advertising business and a 12 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: marketing consultant to many Marquis names. His company was just 13 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:53,600 Speaker 1: acquired by a United talent agency for a hundred and 14 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 1: twenty five million dollars. The three of us had a 15 00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 1: lively conversation in front of a packed house at the 16 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 1: Austin Convention Center. We went deep on marketplace conditions, roth evaluations, 17 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 1: how TikTok will be monetized, when ads will come to Netflix, 18 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 1: and where the new normal is headed in pay TV. 19 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:22,840 Speaker 1: That's all coming up after the break. This is a 20 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:27,199 Speaker 1: really great opportunity with our two guests here, we have 21 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 1: people that just reflect all of the cross currents of 22 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 1: media right now. Kevin Mayer has had quite a tour 23 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: in the last twelve, twelve, sixteen months of media and 24 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:41,680 Speaker 1: all of its inflection points. Michael has made a career 25 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: out of being at the intersection of media, advertising, marketing, commerce, 26 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 1: and that is that those are all of the things 27 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 1: that are driving the business forward right now. So it's 28 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 1: a great opportunity for us to talk about some you know, 29 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: to talk about some specifics and also some big picture things. 30 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 1: So we'll talk well thought we would start by talking 31 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 1: Kevin Mayer is in the midst with your partner Tom Stags, 32 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 1: who like you as a fellow Disney along longtime Disney executive. 33 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: You have joined forces into a company called Candle Media, 34 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 1: and you have been the buzz of Hollywood because you've 35 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 1: been in town with a big checkbook talking to people 36 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 1: about buying content assets. You've been very deliberative and you 37 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 1: and Tom have talked a little bit about the big 38 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 1: picture of what you're going after today, I'd like to 39 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: start by talking about sort of you've been at it 40 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:34,639 Speaker 1: now for probably going on about a year. Where does 41 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 1: Candle Media stand in terms of your building a physical 42 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:42,080 Speaker 1: infrastructure around that business. Well, I think we're in pretty 43 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:45,799 Speaker 1: good shape. We actually started in earnest this summer, late 44 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:48,119 Speaker 1: summer when we bought Hello Sunshine. That was our first 45 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 1: purchase research. You might have heard something about that, Yeah, 46 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 1: and UM and we partner with Blackstone and that that 47 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 1: was an ongoing UM search that I was the time 48 00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 1: and I were on to see who's the right private 49 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 1: equity partner Blackstone being as one of the largest private 50 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 1: equity players and one of the companies that wants very 51 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 1: much to put some money in media right now, Well, 52 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 1: black Stone is It varies from time to time. I 53 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 1: think they're the biggest private equity firm in the world. 54 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: At this point, I have the biggest fund. We're part 55 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 1: of a twenty six billion dollar fund, which is great. 56 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 1: They are a black Stone specifically was was a great 57 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 1: choice because they are very they're in thematic investors and 58 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 1: one of the one of the themes they have a 59 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 1: lot of conviction on is content growth in content spands. 60 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: So they're investing in private equity with Tom and myself 61 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 1: and Candle Media they're investing in the real estates either 62 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:38,279 Speaker 1: they're buying studios UM they have private public equity operations 63 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 1: and they're buying you know, they're making their choices among 64 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: public stocks in that space too. So they're high conviction 65 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 1: and they've been a great partner. And we got we 66 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 1: got put into orbit really with the with the hell 67 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 1: of Sunshine by and then not not long thereafter, we 68 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 1: purchased a company called Moonbug. And if you have anyone 69 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 1: out there has small kids, you'll either like me or 70 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: hate mate for having for Moonbug. They have cocoa melon 71 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 1: is their primary m asset and intellectual property, and they 72 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 1: a blippy and they have a whole the whole bunch 73 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 1: of kids I p that was born on YouTube and 74 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 1: then taken from YouTube and multi platforms into Netflix, into Amazon, 75 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 1: you know, the streaming services and also licensing and merchandizing, 76 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:20,039 Speaker 1: and so we're pretty good shape. We do have a 77 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 1: vision for a modern UM sort of creator economy business 78 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: which has traditional film and television assets that are sold 79 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: to streamers. UM. We have social media storytelling, as best 80 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 1: evidenced by Moonbug, which again starts on YouTube and then 81 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 1: the stories propagate to other platforms. And then commerce. I 82 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 1: think there's a not my time at TikTok, I really 83 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 1: saw the ability for content and influencers to create audience 84 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:53,720 Speaker 1: dynamics that are very, very conducive to making concluding commerce transactions. 85 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 1: Has happened in China to a large degree, this social 86 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 1: social media commerce, and we think we have the assets 87 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 1: to bring to bear to the same thing here in 88 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 1: the US and parts West. So commerce can generate the 89 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 1: kind of numbers that people in the content business are 90 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: accustomed to with, you know, big successful movies and big 91 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 1: successful TV shows. You see that that market is that big. Yeah, 92 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 1: it's very big. I mean, here's one example. Hella Sunshine 93 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 1: has a has a show called The Home Edit. The 94 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:24,919 Speaker 1: Home Edit for those of you haven't seen it, UM 95 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 1: is based on a company called the Home Edit. We 96 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 1: just bought. That's where I'm going. That UM that goes 97 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 1: to people's homes and started office celebrities, but it goes 98 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: to you know, anyone who hires them. They go in 99 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:38,840 Speaker 1: and they reorganize and edit your home, and they come 100 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 1: in with products too, so you can rearrange your garage 101 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 1: and your closets and everything else. And they do a 102 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: great job, and they make the shows out of it, 103 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 1: an unscripted show. We bought the underlying company and that 104 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 1: is a big commerce place. So that's the and there's 105 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:54,720 Speaker 1: a big social media component around the Home Edit to 106 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:56,719 Speaker 1: the founders of the Home Edit are very active in 107 00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 1: social media. There's a huge amount of residents there. So 108 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:02,719 Speaker 1: that's a great example of taking content and moving into 109 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 1: commerce and then social media storytelling. So and Mike, let 110 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: me ask you, Michael, you've known Kevin a long time. 111 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 1: You know he's embarking on this big adventure with again 112 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 1: a nice bankroll. What what did you what? What was 113 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 1: your advice as he as he started out on this 114 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 1: journey in terms of what to look for and where 115 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 1: the where the opportunities? Well? What what? What? I think 116 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:26,480 Speaker 1: Kevin said at the beginning identifying Blackstone as his partner 117 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:30,799 Speaker 1: because they had a focus, and Kevin had a focus. 118 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 1: We've been in conversation about the strategy well before they 119 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:40,599 Speaker 1: implemented the first deal in the summer, and it was 120 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:45,039 Speaker 1: about that and he was clear and Tom equally clear 121 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: on that focus. And I think you know hard to 122 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: give Kevin advice on many things that he doesn't give 123 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 1: me advice on, but I will tell the audience why 124 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 1: we played that song if you don't mind. As we 125 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:01,119 Speaker 1: were sitting in the green room, I looked at Kevin 126 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:03,680 Speaker 1: and I said, you know, you've got the brains, I've 127 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 1: got the looks. Let's go make lots of money. And 128 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 1: I asked them to thank you for agreeing with me 129 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 1: on you know, I agree with them that there you go. 130 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: And we did do a quick calculation on the copyright 131 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 1: in the I p ip benefits and how much. But 132 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 1: but but truthfully, the advice I gave Kevin was advice 133 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: he was actually giving himself, which was be focused on 134 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 1: where they're going, what what What's interesting to me is 135 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 1: being on a stage with you. In One of the 136 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 1: earliest panel conversations I ever did was twenty two years 137 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 1: ago with Variety with Peter Bart, a name that is 138 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 1: you know, well known by many in our industry. Great 139 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 1: and this was in two thousand and The topic sentence 140 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 1: of the of the panel was content meets commerce. So 141 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: we're not in a conversation Asian now that hasn't been 142 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: around for a long time. What I think we've found 143 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 1: is that inflection point where content is influencing everything, but 144 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 1: particularly commerce. As we're looking at it, and there's a 145 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 1: whole lot behind that. But just it's funny for me 146 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 1: to be on a stage twenty two years later really 147 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 1: talking about the seas, content, commerce, et cetera. UM, I mean, 148 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 1: we've moved a level beyond Watch Friends, like Rachel's Sweater 149 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 1: and click now now Rachel's sweater is the show. I 150 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 1: actually asked her if she ever had a blue sweater. 151 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 1: Answer was no, But everybody said, what how are you 152 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 1: going to buy that blue sweater? Let me ask you 153 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 1: a little more specifically, Kevin, So, is the idea that 154 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 1: the Candle Media is a will be a traditional kind 155 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 1: of roll up where you will Candle Media will provide 156 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 1: some back end services, administration, you know, distribution, marketing. Is 157 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: that the idea? Or are you just building a holding 158 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 1: company and you intend to house these imprints and have 159 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:10,319 Speaker 1: them run completely autonomously. It's actually neither. Um we're building. 160 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: We're trying to replicate the sort of framework that we 161 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 1: had at Disney, where Disney is an integrated company. There's 162 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:19,439 Speaker 1: you know, there's no question about that. We bought UM 163 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 1: brands and franchises that plugged into that that company, and 164 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 1: they were the creative UM the creative folks and the 165 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 1: creative teams were allowed to run very autonomously. We bought Marvel. 166 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 1: You know, Kevin Fay, he runs the Marvel studios. He 167 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:34,959 Speaker 1: decides about to make and he decides where the cinematic 168 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 1: universe is going. He does all that stuff. You would 169 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 1: never want to get in the way of that. But 170 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 1: in terms of distributing the films, monetizing them, deciding you know, 171 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: to put them into streaming service, the windowing of all 172 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 1: that um which which the characters are going to be 173 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: exploited for licensing, merchandizing opportunities. So all the monetization is 174 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: done at the Walt Disney company level, and we're that's 175 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:58,959 Speaker 1: the approach that we're taking here. Candle Media isn't fully 176 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 1: integrated operating company. It's not a holding company, nor is 177 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,319 Speaker 1: it a company that just provides back in services to 178 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 1: its component parts. Were fully operational working company UM, and 179 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 1: we're building that through acquisition, and then once we do 180 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 1: these acquisitions, there's gonna be a huge amount of organic 181 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 1: build that's going to come from that. So yeah, you know, 182 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 1: we're not pretending to be Disney or anything like that 183 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 1: that we don't have that much humors. But we like 184 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 1: that organizational philosophy that works so well at Disney, keeping 185 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:28,439 Speaker 1: the creative engines going and autonomous. Everything else is truly integrated. 186 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 1: And will you at at the Candle Media level or 187 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 1: at the Hello Sunshine level, will you be in the 188 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:36,679 Speaker 1: business of financing your own content or do you intend 189 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 1: to still partner with the major studios and platforms. Yeah, 190 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 1: that's a good question. The one of the thesis that 191 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 1: with the thesis that we had one of them, the content, 192 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: commerce and community one, that big one we just talked about. 193 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:53,080 Speaker 1: That's that's the main strategy behind the company. But if 194 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:55,840 Speaker 1: you look just at film and television, that component of it, 195 00:10:56,559 --> 00:11:00,200 Speaker 1: there is a real value for two. Independence at this 196 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:03,079 Speaker 1: point and the other the only thing that the independent 197 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 1: producers haven't had they haven't had enough scale, and they 198 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 1: haven't had access to capital. They've been capital starved and 199 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 1: they've been you know, um, just not big enough to 200 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 1: leverage the right deals with streamers. Now. On the on 201 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:17,560 Speaker 1: the other side, streamers have no option to go to 202 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 1: the large studios anymore, by and large because those large 203 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 1: studios have their own streaming services at their feeding. I 204 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:25,960 Speaker 1: helped our silo walls are getting builder. And that's what 205 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:28,680 Speaker 1: Bob iron I did my last five years of Disney 206 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 1: is that's we architected that that every single and it's 207 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 1: the right strategy. I think every single piece of creative 208 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:35,839 Speaker 1: output that comes from any part of Disney, whether it 209 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:39,199 Speaker 1: be you know, something that's branded Disney, something Pixar, Marvel, 210 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: Star Wars, that all goes in Disney. Plus if it's 211 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:43,960 Speaker 1: come something out of the ABC Television studios, twenty one 212 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:47,200 Speaker 1: Century TV, those are basically targeted for Hulu. But everything 213 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 1: we may ultimately comes to one of our streaming services 214 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 1: permanently and exclusively. That means if you're Netflix, you can 215 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:55,960 Speaker 1: no longer license Disney project. If you're Amazon, you can't 216 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:59,080 Speaker 1: license Disney product. And I was running content sales in 217 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 1: order to eliminate them and get rid of content sales. 218 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:06,080 Speaker 1: So independent independent producers are the last fashion of content 219 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 1: that these that these streamers can go to outside of 220 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 1: the stuff that they make themselves. So being independent is 221 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:16,199 Speaker 1: a very substantial benefit. Independent in the face of double 222 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:18,199 Speaker 1: digit growth in demand for the kind of content that 223 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 1: we make, and if you have capital and scale that 224 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:22,839 Speaker 1: when we're piecing these companies together, so you can go 225 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:25,080 Speaker 1: to market in a much more leveraged way, and we 226 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 1: have capital. Some projects will take all the way from 227 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 1: development through a finished product and go license that and 228 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 1: own it and to create a library like studios do. 229 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 1: Some will do you know, EP type stuff, or where's 230 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 1: the producer and we get paid to credit. Some will 231 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 1: be in between. But if you have scale and you 232 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 1: have capital, then you can start making those choices affirmatively 233 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 1: rather than just being at the whim of the buyer. 234 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:46,679 Speaker 1: And do you think that if you have Riese Witherspoon 235 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:49,080 Speaker 1: or all of the all of the heft that you 236 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:51,920 Speaker 1: can bring to I P you can walk into Netflix 237 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 1: or Amazon or even Disney Plus and say no, I 238 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 1: don't want to cost plus deal, which means they give 239 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 1: you the budget and they give you twenty on the 240 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:03,960 Speaker 1: high end as the producer's fee, as opposed to the 241 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:06,320 Speaker 1: old game, which was a little more like the casino 242 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:08,959 Speaker 1: and the studio came in, had money in the game, 243 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:12,120 Speaker 1: and in success, everybody made a lot of money. Now, 244 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 1: in success, for the most part, producers know that your 245 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 1: upside is capside is capped at and that's a very 246 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 1: predictable game. But it's a different game. Do you think 247 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:26,319 Speaker 1: that Michael, I'm gonna let you stop, but I want 248 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 1: to see what Kevin, as you're playing the middle of 249 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: building this right to give you an example, but that 250 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 1: seems to be the real. I mean, streamers want to 251 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 1: own other product and pay you and buy you out 252 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:40,400 Speaker 1: and and just pay you a premium. We as a 253 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 1: studio want to own the product and not more and 254 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 1: more of the product and not sell it out, and 255 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 1: so you continue to own the i P. One example 256 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 1: of this Moonbug, not a hell of sometime, but a 257 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 1: Moonbug example. We all the ipaid Moonbug, and Moonbug was 258 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 1: a two point seven billion valuation, something that I think 259 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 1: really which was a high valuation, but I think also 260 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: really opened people's eyes to the market for this kind 261 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 1: of really like preschoosed on the value of the i P. 262 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 1: It wasn't a high price. I wasn't not a high price. 263 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 1: It was just it wasn't thank you for saying, but 264 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 1: it was a good price based on the value of 265 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:13,679 Speaker 1: the i P. People thought we were paid from Marball 266 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 1: and all that stuff. We want, Tom and I know 267 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 1: the value I paid. We're pretty good, We're pretty experienced 268 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 1: of that. So I think we did pay a very 269 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 1: fair price. Frankly, um, But I guess time will time 270 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 1: will prove that. But here's a here's an example of 271 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 1: when you have the goods that streamers need or anyone needs, 272 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 1: you have some leverage. So Cocoa Melon, that's the biggest 273 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 1: I P that that Moon Bike has. It's the largest 274 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 1: YouTube channel in the world, and they when they bought it, 275 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 1: it was a sixty million subscribers, and that was almost 276 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: hundred forty million subscribers. It's massive. And last year it 277 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 1: was the second most streamed television show on Netflix. Of 278 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 1: all shows, the only bigger one was Criminal Minds. It 279 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 1: was this much bigger. Coco Milon was almost the number 280 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 1: one show. And that Cocoa Melon show was YouTube episodes 281 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 1: strung together into episode into TV length episodes package in 282 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:02,240 Speaker 1: ten episo. So sold to Netflix for a license fee, 283 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 1: non exclusively. We own it. Netflix does not own anything. 284 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:09,479 Speaker 1: They paid us a fee and they are benefiting tremendously 285 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 1: from it. It's a huge one for them, it's a 286 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 1: huge one for us. And it's still on YouTube with 287 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 1: that huge audience, and we're getting a lot of advertising 288 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 1: revenue from YouTube. So if you have the goods and 289 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 1: you have an finished product, you can get the deal 290 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 1: that you want. We've already done it. Interesting, we're gonna say, Well, 291 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:28,080 Speaker 1: what I was gonna say is two things. It's not 292 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 1: the old days of the studio knocking on your door. 293 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 1: The producers don't have to go to the streamers. Now 294 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 1: the streamers are coming to the producers. Because of Kevin's point, 295 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 1: the studios are all going to have exclusive rights to 296 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 1: their product. So you do need the independence. So this 297 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 1: is a time when the independence have leverage that they 298 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 1: wouldn't have had traditionally. Number one, number two. You you 299 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 1: have to understand that. And I know we're going to 300 00:15:55,520 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 1: get into this, but this commerce part of this. I 301 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 1: look at the commerce part not only as the buying 302 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 1: of the goods and services, but the advertising side of it, 303 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:12,640 Speaker 1: the monetization through advertising. We're watching that change right now. 304 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 1: I mean, as as Kevin developed Disney Plus, it was 305 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 1: clear at the beginning that there wasn't going to be 306 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 1: an a vote alternative at the beginning, but it was 307 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 1: clear if you looked at it, that there was going 308 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 1: to be one ultimately. I mean, I'm throwing that question 309 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 1: to him because where in the cycle was that decision 310 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 1: made to ultimately do it, and you know the the 311 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 1: other guy, uh starts with an end. I think when 312 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 1: that avenue revenue per user number started to go in 313 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 1: the right direction, and I saw that the AD product 314 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 1: was even more, even more incretive potential in your decision 315 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: process at the beginning, you must have known that that 316 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 1: was on the on the completely. I think Disney is 317 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 1: doing the right thing with that. It is if you 318 00:16:56,240 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 1: look at Hulu as an example. Hulu has an AD 319 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 1: free and an AD supported product, and that was part 320 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:06,159 Speaker 1: of our Disney family of Directics Humor services, So I 321 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:10,439 Speaker 1: know this pretty well. Um, the AD free was nine 322 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:13,360 Speaker 1: a month and the AD supported was seven nine a month. 323 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 1: I think that was the numbers. There's a five dollar 324 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:19,240 Speaker 1: difference and um, so maybe it's six, but that five 325 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:22,440 Speaker 1: dollars that you got for um AD free was actually 326 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 1: worse than the r P you got for AD supported 327 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 1: because there's an eight dollars of AD support for and 328 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 1: maybe now it's nine. It's actually growing. You would know 329 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 1: this too, So you're three or four dollars better off 330 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 1: if that subscriber takes ads and if they take no ads. 331 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 1: And I think that there's a massive demand for in 332 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 1: you know, in stream over the top high quality advertising. 333 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:46,400 Speaker 1: That is just because there's a flight the linear television 334 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 1: is the exodus advertising from linear television is extreme, and 335 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:55,200 Speaker 1: they're going they'd still like high quality UM video as context, 336 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:57,879 Speaker 1: so they go over the top services like Pluto, like 337 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 1: Hulu and now like Disney Plus. Michael, are your clients 338 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 1: freaking out that so much activity is going to subscriptions, 339 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 1: so much activity is happening, so all the buzzy shows 340 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 1: are happening, And you know absolutely, and you know the 341 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:17,879 Speaker 1: the the challenge is, traditionally and historically we looked at 342 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:21,879 Speaker 1: that inextricable link between the creation of and delivery of 343 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:25,879 Speaker 1: content supported by marketing messages of some sort. That was 344 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:28,199 Speaker 1: the That was the value exchange that happened. You know. 345 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 1: I always like to go back to where it started 346 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:33,200 Speaker 1: and people say, well, it used to be free for television, 347 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 1: and I say, it never was free. The exchange you 348 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 1: made was I'm going to give you my time and 349 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:41,199 Speaker 1: my attention and look at those commercials and you're going 350 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 1: to give me content. That break occurred and if you're 351 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:48,640 Speaker 1: you know, back to your question, Cynthia, are the clients 352 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:51,200 Speaker 1: the brands freaking out? Of course they are because they're 353 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 1: trying to figure out how do we play, how do 354 00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 1: we get our message across? Is it going to be 355 00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 1: back to just you know, the Coca cola can on 356 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 1: the table. I don't think so. I mean, sure there'll 357 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 1: be more of that, but they are at that point 358 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,719 Speaker 1: where they need to figure out They the brands need 359 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:10,879 Speaker 1: to figure it out. And now with Disney making this announcement, 360 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 1: which I presumed was on the you know, on the 361 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 1: roadmap from the beginning. I heard and Spencer used to 362 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:21,399 Speaker 1: work for Kevin back in the day at Disney. Spencer Newman, 363 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 1: who's the CFO Netflix, the other day said well, we're 364 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:31,640 Speaker 1: not religious. There was a softening at Netflix, the CFO. 365 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:35,480 Speaker 1: Netflix actually softened to the the Their response for ten 366 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:39,160 Speaker 1: years has been absolutely the thought of advertising on Netflix. 367 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 1: Five second pre roll in front of every Netflix video. 368 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 1: How many billions of dollars is there? It's it's it's there. 369 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 1: They don't have a choice. At some point, you're in 370 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 1: fact of a very smart variety. Senior media analysts. Gavin 371 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:55,440 Speaker 1: Bridge on this very stage said that Netflix, it'll be 372 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:57,160 Speaker 1: It could be five years, it could be ten years, 373 00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:01,199 Speaker 1: but Netflix will have years. Alright. I want to tell you, 374 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 1: and I can't read into this more than I asked 375 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:04,439 Speaker 1: him to do it and he's going to do it. 376 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:07,399 Speaker 1: But ted Sarandos is going to sit with me on 377 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:10,119 Speaker 1: the stage at the can Lions this year and in 378 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 1: the lions Den know it and into the lions Den 379 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:15,639 Speaker 1: and someone said to me, how the hell did you 380 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:19,120 Speaker 1: get him, the guy who won't accept advertising, to sit 381 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:22,359 Speaker 1: on a stage at a conference that celebrates advertising. I said, well, 382 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:25,160 Speaker 1: he's got two hats because Netflix is a pretty big 383 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 1: advertiser in terms of what they spend on promoting their programming, 384 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:33,400 Speaker 1: so that is advertising. The incoming is the other. I'm 385 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 1: not suggesting that him doing that is anything other than 386 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 1: him doing something that I asked him to do. But truthfully, 387 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 1: it gives you an indication that that's softening and not 388 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 1: being religious. Will will will occur. That doesn't make it 389 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:50,439 Speaker 1: easy for the advertisers because they still have to figure 390 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:54,120 Speaker 1: it out. And that's part of what keeps us busy, 391 00:20:54,280 --> 00:21:00,480 Speaker 1: you know, candidly is helping advertisers identify those opportunities. And 392 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:05,679 Speaker 1: you know, one of the reasons that we reimagined media 393 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:08,440 Speaker 1: Link at the end of last year at u t 394 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:14,880 Speaker 1: A at United talent agency was the realization that being 395 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:18,920 Speaker 1: closer to the creator economy for media Link was a 396 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 1: smart play because our brands and our clients are saying, wtf, 397 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 1: you know, how do we get there? And we have 398 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:29,960 Speaker 1: to start creating more of our own content, which, by 399 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:33,160 Speaker 1: the way, is a part of where Candle Media has opportunity. 400 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:36,440 Speaker 1: And Kevin and I have certainly talked about this. Um well, 401 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 1: I've talked and Kevin's listened. He hasn't agreed yet. But 402 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 1: but truthfully, we've been doing this routine for twenty years, 403 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 1: so it's act going a little bit, a little bit. 404 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,919 Speaker 1: We've got we've got a get going. But but but truthfully, 405 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 1: the opportunity to get brands more active in the financing 406 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 1: of that content is another mechanism and then it becomes 407 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,680 Speaker 1: brought to you by and just as just a um 408 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:05,119 Speaker 1: Michael's company. Media Link was sold in December to the 409 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 1: United Talent Agency, one of the Hollywood's largest talent agencies, 410 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 1: for a million dollars. And that is another deal that's 411 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,439 Speaker 1: a signpost of how all these things are converging in 412 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 1: ways that they did not. You know, new new alignments 413 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:22,360 Speaker 1: are being formed. Kevin was talking about the new sort 414 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:24,600 Speaker 1: of new world order Disney of all of the content 415 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:27,399 Speaker 1: going to different streamers, and we've seen that at not 416 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:30,440 Speaker 1: only Disney, we've seen it in a bas NBC Universal. 417 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:34,440 Speaker 1: It's been inside of three years. The literally the profit centers, 418 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:38,679 Speaker 1: all of the business models have literally just been re engineered. 419 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 1: It is such a shift from literally decades of what 420 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:44,760 Speaker 1: I think we're looking in hindsight and recognizing, you know, 421 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:50,000 Speaker 1: incredible profit margins, incredible momentum. But do you do you 422 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,680 Speaker 1: feel like that the pay TV moment that built ESPN, 423 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 1: that is that business? Is that going to be a 424 00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 1: moment or are we going to see it more? Because 425 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 1: I think we've seen a lot of these digital m 426 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,239 Speaker 1: v p d s and that that business seems to have. 427 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:06,880 Speaker 1: The digital m v p d s to who lose 428 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:08,959 Speaker 1: the YouTube lives, they seem to have the same problems 429 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,919 Speaker 1: as the traditional because there's the same product, there's delivered 430 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:14,160 Speaker 1: a different way. There's there they're called over the top, 431 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 1: they're just pay TV services. I mean, we when we 432 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 1: decided to launch a Hulu, we wanted to. We thought 433 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:20,920 Speaker 1: there was an opportunity to do maybe do a little better, 434 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 1: a little different on new devices, on connected TV, so 435 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 1: the interface would be a more pleasant experience, which I 436 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,200 Speaker 1: think it has been. Um, you could dynamically insert ads, 437 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,679 Speaker 1: which would be great, But I will say it is 438 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: linear television, that the seven streaming channel is linear television 439 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,639 Speaker 1: with how it was delivered on a satellite box, on 440 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 1: a cable box, or on over the top on the Internet. 441 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:44,919 Speaker 1: It is the same product, so it is experiencing the 442 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 1: same problems. We thought that it hopefully offset some of 443 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:51,359 Speaker 1: the downward trajectory of subscribers. It really has not. I 444 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 1: think that paid that the pay TV subscriber universe is 445 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 1: in free fall. Actually do you think like it doesn't settle. 446 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,680 Speaker 1: Here's what's kind of happen. My prediction is this soon 447 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 1: the the only people well served by by pay TV 448 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 1: bundle or sports fans because that's where you find sports. 449 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 1: Putting on your hat as chairman of the Zone, a 450 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 1: streaming service that is mostly focused in Europe and Asia, 451 00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 1: but a player in the sports game, a big I think, 452 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:21,120 Speaker 1: a pretty big player in the sports game. If you're 453 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:22,560 Speaker 1: in Europe, you would know it well. And we have 454 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 1: boxing in the US and around the world. But this 455 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: is putting on my ESPN hat. You know, I've launched 456 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 1: the ESPN Plus and as a Disney and so I 457 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:32,359 Speaker 1: know kind of the thinking behind that, And my fear 458 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 1: is that the it will continue to decline and decline 459 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,639 Speaker 1: and decline until basically you have sports fans, because it's 460 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 1: only only thing that really has to be delivered on 461 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 1: a time basis is sports and news, and that's the 462 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 1: only thing. Other than that, all entertainment programming can be 463 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 1: delivered on a you know, on demand basis through streaming services. 464 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,800 Speaker 1: There's no fundamental reason to have a linear channel experience 465 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,800 Speaker 1: for for entertainment. In fact, people don't prefer it. There's 466 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 1: some spectacle lidents, you know, yeah, it's okay, you put 467 00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:01,400 Speaker 1: the IS in there too, so you have the oscars 468 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:03,359 Speaker 1: and you have some other live events. So the live 469 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:05,959 Speaker 1: programming is the only universe that has to be served 470 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:10,399 Speaker 1: live almost by definition. So what happens then is can 471 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:14,359 Speaker 1: continue to decline until there's just basically mostly sports fans. 472 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 1: And still let are a lot of sports fans in 473 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:18,760 Speaker 1: the US and around the world, but that's the value proposition. 474 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 1: In the US and pay television, you think something maybe 475 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,359 Speaker 1: fifty even, but then you have to look if you're ESPN, 476 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 1: if you're the other providers of sports. Are you better 477 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:32,639 Speaker 1: off wholesaling into this audience that is purely sports fans, 478 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:35,439 Speaker 1: or are you better off retailing to that audience the 479 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:37,520 Speaker 1: same same calculus who went through a Disney to launch 480 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,400 Speaker 1: Disney Plus all be better off wholesaling our content Netflix 481 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,879 Speaker 1: and the other streamers or being a streamer. So ESPN 482 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:47,920 Speaker 1: and other providers will have to go through that same calculus. Okay, 483 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,639 Speaker 1: pay TV is small enough now that wow, why should 484 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:52,880 Speaker 1: be be a wholesaler? Shouldn't it be a retailer can 485 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 1: make more money? And that's when you'll see ESPN and 486 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:57,320 Speaker 1: others pull themselves out of the bundle, go direct to 487 00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:59,479 Speaker 1: consumers and then there is no more bundle there pay 488 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 1: TVs O And that's that's the trajectory that is. You 489 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:03,959 Speaker 1: need quite a stomach to be able to do that, 490 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,600 Speaker 1: because you have to make that decision to cut that 491 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:12,639 Speaker 1: income stream off to make the bet. So those are 492 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:14,639 Speaker 1: you know, those are rooms you want to kind of 493 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 1: understand the dynamic of the decision to say we're not 494 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:20,480 Speaker 1: going to take these billions of dollars over here because 495 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 1: we're making the bet over here, and generally speaking, in 496 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 1: corporate America at least. Those decisions are tough because the 497 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,280 Speaker 1: short term versus the long term decision is really tough 498 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 1: to make. There's a certain tone of voice in this 499 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,359 Speaker 1: and they always in the earnings calls, they always make 500 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:37,480 Speaker 1: the CFO deliver the news appropriately. But there's a certain 501 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:39,760 Speaker 1: tone of voice that the CFO gets when they're starting, 502 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:41,800 Speaker 1: when they're going to announce, okay, and in this quarter, 503 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,680 Speaker 1: we're going to take this level of a hit. I mean, 504 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,440 Speaker 1: the things have been so upside down that for a 505 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:51,239 Speaker 1: while there last year the companies were announcing how much 506 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:53,400 Speaker 1: they were going to lose and the stock, the stock 507 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,960 Speaker 1: wouldn't go out. It's been do you get a sense 508 00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:58,879 Speaker 1: from you both in the market that there's been a 509 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 1: leveling off? Certainly we saw that in the Q four 510 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:05,280 Speaker 1: earning cycle, there was a leveling off of Wall streets enthusiasm. 511 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,480 Speaker 1: Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with more insights 512 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 1: from Kevin Mayer and Michael Casson after this break. Thanks 513 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 1: for helping us pay the bills. Now we're back with 514 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 1: more from the South By Southwest conference. What I was 515 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,360 Speaker 1: going to say about the calendar, you know, we certainly 516 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 1: all understand was a tough year for of the people 517 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 1: in the world, companies and and and civilians alike. One 518 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 1: was a banner year for everybody that you can find economically. 519 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 1: And I think the prognosis that is going to continue 520 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 1: that momentum is absolutely correct the question for most and 521 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:46,440 Speaker 1: I look at it through the lens of marketing and advertising, 522 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 1: but the but the you know, that point of twenty 523 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,040 Speaker 1: three is going to be okay, Now we're in a 524 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 1: real world. We've had this momentum, the build up from 525 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:59,160 Speaker 1: twenty all the left, all the pent up savings, all 526 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:03,600 Speaker 1: of that rising tide. You know, everybody's floating above the surface. 527 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 1: Now what happens in twenty three, I think is going 528 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:10,120 Speaker 1: to really be the question from a macroeconomic perspective as 529 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:15,440 Speaker 1: to will that momentum continue save geopolitical you know conversations 530 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:17,639 Speaker 1: which hard to save right now because we're right in 531 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:19,919 Speaker 1: the midst of it. But as we become it is 532 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 1: truly as we become more globally, as the business becomes 533 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,200 Speaker 1: more globally connected, it's like they say, you know, a 534 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 1: butterfly flaps its wings in one country and creates as 535 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:31,359 Speaker 1: that's that's only going to increase in the world of 536 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 1: global and you know, if you look at it through 537 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 1: the lens of talent um. You know, I used to 538 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 1: get around and say, if you had a show in 539 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,560 Speaker 1: on linear television that hit a hundred episodes, you guys 540 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 1: know this, well, that was the magic number for syndication 541 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 1: in the old days. And the joke used to be, 542 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,960 Speaker 1: if you had a hundred episodes, geographically in Los Angeles, 543 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:54,880 Speaker 1: you could afford a house north of Sunset and and 544 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 1: that would be you know, a hundred episodes entitled you 545 00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 1: to a house in a good neighborhood. You know that 546 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 1: doesn't exist anymore. Maybe a hundred episodes will exist, but 547 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 1: the ancillary rights in the ancillary economics, So this is 548 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 1: turning a different model upside down, which is talent. Just 549 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,239 Speaker 1: from that perspective and now being inside the halls at 550 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:16,960 Speaker 1: U t A, I see, you know, even the impact 551 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,480 Speaker 1: on talent that's happening because to your point, there's a 552 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 1: there's a ceiling now and where you know, we're Kevin 553 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 1: and you all are investing. I mean, I know there 554 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:28,320 Speaker 1: were some snickers about Hello Sunshine being valued at nine 555 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 1: on the on the surface within the industry that felt 556 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 1: like wow, what is there? Because they don't have a 557 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,200 Speaker 1: big library. They don't have they have incredible promise and 558 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 1: they're clearly very industrious, incredibly impressed by CEO Sarah Harden. 559 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,760 Speaker 1: She is really an impressive person. Um. But clearly you 560 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 1: are betting on what we talked about, the social commerce 561 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 1: and the ability of Reese and the footprint of her 562 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 1: and like minded creators to bring audiences to them in 563 00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 1: that direct to consumer way. Is it really? This? Is 564 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:01,960 Speaker 1: it so? Should that drives all of that social is 565 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 1: a big is a kind of at the center of everything, 566 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 1: I think, um, And yes, I think we are counting 567 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 1: on the fact that we can, you know, drive a 568 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 1: lot of traffic and fandom around her social media presence. 569 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 1: She has a book club, she has a lot of 570 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 1: a lot of the intellectual property that she made that 571 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 1: Reese makes into you know, filmed entertainment, whether the series 572 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 1: or movies, comes from that, you know, access to incredible 573 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 1: thinking from these her book authors, in her in her universe, 574 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 1: so that there's some advantage to access to ideas from 575 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 1: that perspective. And I just do think that we are 576 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 1: going to build a library. We didn't buy a library, 577 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 1: but we're building one, um, because we're going to achieve 578 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:41,080 Speaker 1: ownership and shows that we really care about achieving ownership. 579 00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:44,280 Speaker 1: And so we're gonna have a very a very full 580 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 1: spectrum model, if you will, from producer fees, which is great. 581 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 1: You know, make a lot of money doing that to 582 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,960 Speaker 1: full ownership and it's gonna end library and then between 583 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 1: him partial ownership, a lot of co co productions and 584 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 1: stuff like that. We've already done some hellas Sunshine. So 585 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:00,280 Speaker 1: that's another model. I don't own the whole thing, but 586 00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:02,440 Speaker 1: now we have a capital that allows us to make 587 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:04,360 Speaker 1: take those bets, and we're gonna make those bets and 588 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,640 Speaker 1: adds risk to the equation, but it also adds upside. 589 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:10,240 Speaker 1: And as for a high price, I think, um, when 590 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 1: we talked about Moonbug being I think a pretty low price, 591 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,520 Speaker 1: people snicker. I mean, honestly, if you go back to 592 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,520 Speaker 1: our days when we bought Pixar and the bays about Marvel, 593 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:24,600 Speaker 1: we were roundly criticized for overpaying dramatically Marvel especially. I 594 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 1: remember people thinking what that's worth? You name it sixty 595 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,680 Speaker 1: dollars and it was a good bet. Now, not every 596 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:35,760 Speaker 1: bet turns out great. I'm not saying that every bet 597 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:38,480 Speaker 1: I make is always great, but I will say if 598 00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:42,000 Speaker 1: you we were very um disciplined and careful, and we 599 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 1: have a roadmap that gets us to a value well 600 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 1: in advance of above what we paid. So we'll see. 601 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:48,560 Speaker 1: I mean, the proof is in the pudding, but I 602 00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 1: think we'll come out looking pretty good on that one. 603 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 1: It is I mean, if you step back and look 604 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 1: at the business as it is now, I mean, it 605 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 1: is kind of fascinating the talent of the scale of reefs. 606 00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 1: And you know something that they have this lever, these 607 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,840 Speaker 1: levers that they can push that they never did. I imagine, Michael, 608 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:06,560 Speaker 1: now with your deeper connection with U t A. As 609 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,719 Speaker 1: we talked about, opportunity is the theme of this this discussion. 610 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 1: The opportunity for people to move literally move people to 611 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 1: the markets that they want to establish is pretty incredible. 612 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 1: With social well, the commerce piece of this is the 613 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 1: thing that gets really sexy because talent today understands that 614 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:29,040 Speaker 1: their association with brands is more than just being a spokesperson. Yeah, 615 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 1: it's it's not that and and and not everybody can 616 00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:36,080 Speaker 1: influence it, but we certainly have enough examples of people 617 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,360 Speaker 1: like Ryan Reynolds, or people like Kim Kardashian, or people 618 00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,360 Speaker 1: you know down the line Paris Hilton, who we were 619 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 1: just at a conference with and she stood up and 620 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,360 Speaker 1: she was introduced as one of the you know, o 621 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:52,360 Speaker 1: g of of that world, and she really is. You 622 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 1: know when you look at that and you say, the 623 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:59,800 Speaker 1: association of brands, of celebrity and brands is no different 624 00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:03,560 Speaker 1: than product placement on steroids. Right. The idea of product 625 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:07,120 Speaker 1: placement was to borrow celebrity. If you're holding an Apple 626 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 1: computer or working on an Apple computer in a movie, 627 00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:12,600 Speaker 1: you want to be cool because you've got an Apple computer. 628 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,600 Speaker 1: So you're using the celebrity of the brand along with 629 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,680 Speaker 1: the celebrity of the of the talent, if you will. 630 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:22,520 Speaker 1: We're seeing that commerce and celebrity come together in a 631 00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,880 Speaker 1: very meaningful way, and it's working. I mean, we've got 632 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:29,840 Speaker 1: a couple of you know, newly hatched billionaires, and Rihanna 633 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,320 Speaker 1: and Kim Kardashian and and and you know down the 634 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:38,360 Speaker 1: list of people who are cashing in, but not in 635 00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 1: a negative way. There's never anything negative about cashing in legitimately, 636 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:47,400 Speaker 1: but we're seeing that that cash register ring loud and clear. 637 00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:51,520 Speaker 1: So talent is really getting moving up the food change. 638 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:53,600 Speaker 1: And I would imagine that there's also, like, you know, 639 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:55,640 Speaker 1: just as just as talent, well, you don't want to 640 00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:56,800 Speaker 1: be in you know, you don't want to be in 641 00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:59,400 Speaker 1: too many movies in one year. There's a certain that 642 00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:01,720 Speaker 1: you've got to have some boundaries, Like you know, you 643 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:03,360 Speaker 1: don't want to put your name on everything. You want 644 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:05,240 Speaker 1: to make sure Like I would imagine that there's a 645 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:08,520 Speaker 1: whole new discipline for talent management in how do you 646 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,799 Speaker 1: determine opportunities and how do you know what's what's right 647 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,760 Speaker 1: with you? I would imagine that those conversations, we actually 648 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,520 Speaker 1: do it scientifically. And one of the great things that 649 00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:21,200 Speaker 1: I inherited with Media Link at U T A was 650 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:23,960 Speaker 1: something called U T i i Q, and U T 651 00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 1: A i Q really develops the basis for those kinds 652 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:32,080 Speaker 1: of decisions. So it's not just random. When somebody sits 653 00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:35,920 Speaker 1: down and negotiates Kevin Hart's next movie, you can actually 654 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:39,120 Speaker 1: show up with data that indicates why Kevin Hart should 655 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:41,799 Speaker 1: earn X amount of dollars for this movie. And by 656 00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 1: the way, you can apply that same thing to brands 657 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,080 Speaker 1: in a traditional sense. And it comes back to what 658 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,520 Speaker 1: at least at the intersection that Media Link lives out 659 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,920 Speaker 1: which I've said and you said a bit ago, marketing, media, advertising, 660 00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:59,399 Speaker 1: entertainment and technology. At that intersection, data is driving all 661 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:01,920 Speaker 1: the right to say, visioning. So data should be driving 662 00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:05,000 Speaker 1: the same kind of decision NG that you make around content, 663 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 1: around the endorsement opportunities, the product opportunities. You use the 664 00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:15,600 Speaker 1: same data that brands have used forever. Well, Tommy talking 665 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,160 Speaker 1: about talking about vehicles right now there is nothing. Let's 666 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:22,319 Speaker 1: talk a little bit about your TikTok and sort of 667 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:25,520 Speaker 1: where it stands right now. UM. I saw you quoted, 668 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:28,000 Speaker 1: i think last year saying that that TikTok you had 669 00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:33,719 Speaker 1: a brief association with them as CEO in UM. I 670 00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:37,239 Speaker 1: know it was it was a combination of geopolitical situation 671 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:39,520 Speaker 1: that was happening at that time with the Trump administration, 672 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:43,120 Speaker 1: but it was a short tenure for you about three months. Um. 673 00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:46,759 Speaker 1: But in the big picture about about TikTok, you've said 674 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:50,200 Speaker 1: that that that their algorithm, that their recommendation, their ability 675 00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:53,120 Speaker 1: to put content in front of people, that they actually 676 00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 1: do want to see the success of the algorithm. Have 677 00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,400 Speaker 1: you now, now that you're on the entrepreneurial side, do 678 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:02,160 Speaker 1: you see a way to turn that into a growth 679 00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:06,680 Speaker 1: driver a profit generator for candle media related businesses. Well, 680 00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:09,160 Speaker 1: I think you know, TikTok is one of several social 681 00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:11,799 Speaker 1: media platforms, and I think that's really social entertainment if 682 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:14,560 Speaker 1: you think look at TikTok specifically, that really is about 683 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,239 Speaker 1: capturing people's time and attention that otherwise would probably be 684 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:20,400 Speaker 1: spent watching a Netflix or something, because it's truly immersive 685 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,000 Speaker 1: video and it's not a lot of communication that happens 686 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:26,080 Speaker 1: on TikTok. It is mostly you know, people create and 687 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:28,560 Speaker 1: then you get your feed and you're passively watching a 688 00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:30,640 Speaker 1: whole bunch of stuff that is super interesting to you. 689 00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:34,120 Speaker 1: Because the AI technology that that byte Dance has is 690 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:38,719 Speaker 1: second to none. It's incredible. Um and and so being 691 00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:43,320 Speaker 1: in the social media space generally speaking with TikTok, with Instagram, 692 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,520 Speaker 1: with YouTube, I think that's where opportunities are are going 693 00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:49,200 Speaker 1: to lie. And I do think that you can attack 694 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:51,239 Speaker 1: it from a bunch of different angles. Again, you know, 695 00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,560 Speaker 1: getting back to Moonbug that was ip born on YouTube. 696 00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:57,239 Speaker 1: Mom and pop creates, it creates something that's fun, it 697 00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:00,680 Speaker 1: explodes virally, we buy it, I mean animal platform and 698 00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:02,560 Speaker 1: make a lot more to monetize a lot better than 699 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:04,440 Speaker 1: they ever could. So it's a win win. They get 700 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:06,799 Speaker 1: they get bought out, We own it, and then we 701 00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:08,919 Speaker 1: can monetize it. And I think there's it goes both 702 00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:11,080 Speaker 1: ways though, a lot of stuff that we make can 703 00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:14,920 Speaker 1: actually end up storytelling on on social media, and I 704 00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:19,160 Speaker 1: think we're going to be pursuing some social media storytelling 705 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:21,879 Speaker 1: assets that hopefully will being out soon that are gonna 706 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:24,920 Speaker 1: be fun um. But I do think you monetize that 707 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:27,759 Speaker 1: and just purely through advertising on social Yeah, well, I 708 00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:30,000 Speaker 1: think when we're on social we're gonna monetize it a 709 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,959 Speaker 1: few ways. You can do third party advertising, for sure. 710 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,839 Speaker 1: You can. You can be a U, a marketer for 711 00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,759 Speaker 1: the right brand, have grandchildren. Thank god, there's some opportunity 712 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:41,680 Speaker 1: you can do that. You can create your own brands 713 00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:45,200 Speaker 1: if you're if you're a celebrity with enough resonance with 714 00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:48,680 Speaker 1: with your followers, and you can authentically. The thing about 715 00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:51,160 Speaker 1: social media, the connection has to be utterly authentic. If 716 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:53,840 Speaker 1: you try, If you sell yourself and you and you 717 00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:59,080 Speaker 1: um create messages that clearly don't fit what your followers 718 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:02,600 Speaker 1: expect to you know, to to present to them, you 719 00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:04,759 Speaker 1: have a real problem. You can't just force marketing. You 720 00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:08,240 Speaker 1: can't fake your life to actually use it. Paris Holton 721 00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,040 Speaker 1: uses certain products so you can authentically talk about it 722 00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:14,160 Speaker 1: and boom. Then then it works the other thing again, 723 00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:15,880 Speaker 1: if you're big enough, you can create your own brands, 724 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:17,960 Speaker 1: and that's what Rihanna has done, and that's what the 725 00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:21,960 Speaker 1: Kardashians have done. Um Paris Hulton has done that. That's 726 00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:23,839 Speaker 1: at the top of the very top of the food chain. 727 00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:26,560 Speaker 1: But it is a way for celebrities since they're capped 728 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:28,319 Speaker 1: a little bit and what they can make now on 729 00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:30,839 Speaker 1: film and television, it's a way for them to very 730 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,640 Speaker 1: much capitalize on their on the degree of which people 731 00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:36,759 Speaker 1: hang on their every word on social media, some of 732 00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:41,640 Speaker 1: these people have hundred plus million followers. It's right report 733 00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:46,480 Speaker 1: last week that the Kardashian family collectively has more social 734 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:51,880 Speaker 1: media followers than Netflix has global subscribers and fix up 735 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:59,120 Speaker 1: to about the last time. It's quite extraordinary. And at 736 00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:01,520 Speaker 1: the core of it, Kevin just said it, but I'll 737 00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:04,239 Speaker 1: put a word on it is authenticity, because if you're 738 00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:07,400 Speaker 1: not authentic in this environment, you're dead. It's not actually 739 00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:12,200 Speaker 1: your kitchen. Things that drive marketing today in an interesting way, 740 00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:16,880 Speaker 1: One is purpose and it's not just tick the box purpose. 741 00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:20,799 Speaker 1: You have to demonstrate it and authenticity because if the 742 00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:24,840 Speaker 1: brand doesn't, whether that's a celebrity or a consumer package 743 00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:29,000 Speaker 1: goods product, if if if it's not authentic, the bullshit 744 00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:31,480 Speaker 1: detectors out there are too high right now. People just 745 00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:36,640 Speaker 1: know can't work. So individual celebrities obviously you can gather. 746 00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:39,840 Speaker 1: But what do you see other sort of sectors that 747 00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:43,439 Speaker 1: are right for kind of DTC type disruption, like sports leagues. 748 00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:46,560 Speaker 1: I've been hearing a lot of chatter that regional sports networks, 749 00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:51,520 Speaker 1: cable channels that are devoted to showing regional games of 750 00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:55,600 Speaker 1: local teams, that those are you know that that those 751 00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:58,600 Speaker 1: are very much likely to go to go into a 752 00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:02,440 Speaker 1: DTC for this of the reasons, and that the hardcore 753 00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:04,439 Speaker 1: fans that want to pay that four dollars a month, 754 00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:08,360 Speaker 1: here's their opportunity. I think very much. Look anything that 755 00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:10,480 Speaker 1: you can be talking about time and entertainment here and 756 00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:12,799 Speaker 1: you know we can all sorts of package goods are 757 00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:16,120 Speaker 1: directed consumer and others. Thousands of new director consumer brands, 758 00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:18,200 Speaker 1: I will say that are out there. But with respect 759 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:20,759 Speaker 1: to what to our ecosystem, if it can be on 760 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,359 Speaker 1: a TV screen, it can be delivered over the top. 761 00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:26,560 Speaker 1: There's nothing, There is no and I can have a 762 00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:29,280 Speaker 1: direct consumer business model. There's nothing that prevents that. Everything 763 00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:31,439 Speaker 1: is digital, of course, and has been for quite some time, 764 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:33,680 Speaker 1: and it's just a matter of which protocol you use 765 00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:36,120 Speaker 1: to get it from the you know. The origination point 766 00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:38,239 Speaker 1: to the viewing point is that i P is an 767 00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:41,160 Speaker 1: Internet protocol? Is it some you know the technology that 768 00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:45,040 Speaker 1: you know q am that that that that satellite and 769 00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:48,959 Speaker 1: cable companies use. It doesn't matter, but it does matter 770 00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:51,600 Speaker 1: is the business model. And I think that people are 771 00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:53,880 Speaker 1: getting used to paying for what they want and not 772 00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,359 Speaker 1: paying for what they don't want more and more and more, 773 00:40:56,520 --> 00:41:00,279 Speaker 1: and I think that is driving the unbundling of of 774 00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:02,880 Speaker 1: the cable net of the cable system. It is driving 775 00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:05,160 Speaker 1: people to buy more. Precisely, regional sports networks have been 776 00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:07,200 Speaker 1: a rip off for a long time because they're very 777 00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:10,759 Speaker 1: high priced and there then they get package with their 778 00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:13,400 Speaker 1: local cable companies. And if you buy a big local 779 00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:16,680 Speaker 1: cable package and then separately on top of that by 780 00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:21,319 Speaker 1: a local sports it's just not fair. It's not fair 781 00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:23,799 Speaker 1: to those their cross subsidizing a lot of people that 782 00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:26,640 Speaker 1: aren't really sports fans and I can't go on forever, 783 00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:29,200 Speaker 1: especially at those prices. And if you think about the 784 00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:33,120 Speaker 1: impact on marketing for direct to consumer. We we coined 785 00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:35,239 Speaker 1: a phrase at media Link a couple of years ago, 786 00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:39,200 Speaker 1: and what we looked at was the traditional brand marketing 787 00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:43,560 Speaker 1: thinking and what we would always call performance marketing or 788 00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:46,200 Speaker 1: what you might have known originally as direct marketing, but 789 00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:51,960 Speaker 1: performance marketing. And the artificial distinction between brand marketing and 790 00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:55,640 Speaker 1: performance marketing was the performance marketing go back to data, 791 00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:59,600 Speaker 1: required more data, and there was a return loop because 792 00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:02,520 Speaker 1: you could see what was happening, and it was a 793 00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:05,920 Speaker 1: call to action. And I really coined it coming out 794 00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:09,080 Speaker 1: of work with American Express, where the chief marketing officer 795 00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:14,320 Speaker 1: at American Express, Elizabeth Ruttledge, challenged us to bring together 796 00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:18,040 Speaker 1: her brand marketers don't leave home without it and her 797 00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:20,560 Speaker 1: performance marketers, which is to make sure not only should 798 00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:22,240 Speaker 1: you have the card in your pocket, but you should 799 00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:24,160 Speaker 1: be using it because if you don't use it, they 800 00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:27,920 Speaker 1: don't make any money. And so that idea came together 801 00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:29,879 Speaker 1: and the light bulb went off for me and I said, 802 00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:33,240 Speaker 1: so what you're really talking about is brand foremance marketing. 803 00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:36,560 Speaker 1: You want to have the same data infused into your 804 00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:39,720 Speaker 1: traditional brand marketing that you do in your performance marketing. 805 00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:42,080 Speaker 1: That's where I came up with the word, but where 806 00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:45,760 Speaker 1: I really saw it play out was with Disney Plus 807 00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:49,680 Speaker 1: and others, the other streamers. We were tasked with helping 808 00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:53,320 Speaker 1: the marketing mentality at Disney Plus. And this is something 809 00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:57,759 Speaker 1: Kevin and I worked on together because traditionally the Walt 810 00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:01,280 Speaker 1: Disney Company would market to put AUSS and seats on Friday, Saturday, 811 00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:04,360 Speaker 1: and Sunday when they opened movies, and all of a sudden, 812 00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:07,239 Speaker 1: they had to be thinking and subscriber acquisition mode with 813 00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:09,719 Speaker 1: Disney Plus, and you want to avoid churn and all 814 00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:11,759 Speaker 1: the things you needed to do. And it took an 815 00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:14,839 Speaker 1: entirely different marketing muscle, and we had to not only 816 00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:17,600 Speaker 1: retrain the internal team, but we had to find the 817 00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:21,840 Speaker 1: right agency partners that could that could understand that. And 818 00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:24,120 Speaker 1: I still and I still, I think it's pretty clear 819 00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:26,880 Speaker 1: that like I don't think any other company, only Disney 820 00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:30,600 Speaker 1: with that goodwill and built in you know, Warner Brothers, 821 00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:33,360 Speaker 1: as established as it is, people don't have that feeling 822 00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:36,279 Speaker 1: for that brand that they do that that the we 823 00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:40,040 Speaker 1: were tracking that the awareness of Disney Plus was shockingly. 824 00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:44,120 Speaker 1: It spread so fast that the hardcore consumer was was 825 00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:47,440 Speaker 1: aware that Disney Plus was coming. One thing we did 826 00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:50,360 Speaker 1: in an incredible way, We set out a target. Let 827 00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:54,560 Speaker 1: me did this together of coverage of people in a 828 00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:58,520 Speaker 1: monthly basis getting at least three exposures to Disney Plus 829 00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:03,239 Speaker 1: advertising at the top three. That means the average getting 830 00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:05,160 Speaker 1: something like fifty. That's just the way the math works. 831 00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:10,960 Speaker 1: We carpet bombed this country with UM Disney Plus advertising 832 00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:13,319 Speaker 1: and it worked really really well, and we got ten 833 00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:15,360 Speaker 1: million stubs in the first day. Now we have built 834 00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:16,840 Speaker 1: in a brand equity, as you said, because it was 835 00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:21,040 Speaker 1: Disney that helps for sure. I'm not Hoizon, you know. 836 00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:24,000 Speaker 1: Hans Vestberg and I did a really good deal UM 837 00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:26,680 Speaker 1: with Verizon, which broy the way, worked out really really 838 00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:28,560 Speaker 1: well better than people think. It was a four month 839 00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:32,239 Speaker 1: deal both for both of us, and a lot of 840 00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:34,440 Speaker 1: those people that were getting Disney Plus for free for 841 00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:36,680 Speaker 1: a year actually did convert over to be Disney Plus debscriber. 842 00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:39,000 Speaker 1: So I was a big, big win. You're right. But 843 00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:41,680 Speaker 1: then we took that learning that we created, We created 844 00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:44,560 Speaker 1: what I called to my troops a consumer frenzy. There 845 00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:46,680 Speaker 1: was a frenzy around Disney Plus, and we took that 846 00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:50,960 Speaker 1: same exact philosophy and did the same thing in Europe 847 00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:53,799 Speaker 1: before I left Europe and India. We took that same 848 00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:56,160 Speaker 1: consumer frenzy and our team executed it really well during 849 00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:59,640 Speaker 1: a pandemic. But it's all about extreme reach and frequency 850 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:03,839 Speaker 1: of our advertising message beyond which Disney normally do. It 851 00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:09,320 Speaker 1: was good Disney Plus launched November, I mean, three months 852 00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:11,759 Speaker 1: before a pandemic or plus or minus, you know, three 853 00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:16,759 Speaker 1: or four months, and and the story has been obviously extraordinary. 854 00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:19,799 Speaker 1: But you think of the timing of it and I 855 00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:21,759 Speaker 1: think back, it's kind of special to be on this 856 00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:24,000 Speaker 1: stage because I was supposed to be on this stage 857 00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:29,080 Speaker 1: in on you know, I think literally two years ago 858 00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:32,560 Speaker 1: today and here we are, which, by the way, I 859 00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:34,520 Speaker 1: just want to give a shout out to the south 860 00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:38,719 Speaker 1: By Southwest teams because there is that special moment of 861 00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:41,719 Speaker 1: being back together and being in person, and I r 862 00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:45,440 Speaker 1: L has has attraction has been so nice and Austin 863 00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:48,279 Speaker 1: couldn't be a more welcoming, just fun place to be. 864 00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:51,080 Speaker 1: It's really it's been nice. Yeah, thank you. I appreciate 865 00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:53,360 Speaker 1: you mentioning the south By Southwest people. They have worked 866 00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:56,120 Speaker 1: hard and put on a very good event in in 867 00:45:56,239 --> 00:46:03,960 Speaker 1: tough circumstances working up. We're gonna open it up to 868 00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:06,040 Speaker 1: questions in our last few minutes here, but I wanted 869 00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:08,560 Speaker 1: to ask Michael um part of media links business is 870 00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:10,360 Speaker 1: not as not as well known as the as the 871 00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:13,799 Speaker 1: as the marketing and the consultancy is that you do 872 00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:16,560 Speaker 1: some head hunting. That you do do executive search, high 873 00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:19,480 Speaker 1: level executive search for media firms. What I know, I 874 00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:22,399 Speaker 1: know you can't talk dish specifics, but can you talk 875 00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:25,440 Speaker 1: about some of the like what what are the what 876 00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:27,920 Speaker 1: are the jobs of the future, what are what are 877 00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:30,480 Speaker 1: the skills that people are looking for? And what kind 878 00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:34,600 Speaker 1: of placements are people looking for? The Yeah, obviously I 879 00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:38,319 Speaker 1: can't be specific, but I can be generic. The Great 880 00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:42,400 Speaker 1: Resignation is real. The Great Resignation has really created a 881 00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:48,799 Speaker 1: circumstance where talent is impossible to find right now across industries. 882 00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:52,279 Speaker 1: But what we're really understanding is, and I'll take this 883 00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:56,600 Speaker 1: from a TV show, there was a period in the marketing, advertising, 884 00:46:56,680 --> 00:47:01,920 Speaker 1: media business that m mad men were the people you 885 00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:06,800 Speaker 1: were looking for, and today it's math men, but math people. Today, 886 00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:10,600 Speaker 1: you're looking for people who can actually understand the data, data, analysis, 887 00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:14,920 Speaker 1: and analysis, not just it's not just about the creative, 888 00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:19,680 Speaker 1: it's about understanding the type of creative. And look, our industries, 889 00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:24,760 Speaker 1: respectively pivot on five words right now. And it's funny 890 00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:27,560 Speaker 1: that I just kind of landed on this and realized 891 00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:30,759 Speaker 1: all the words started with the letter T. And those 892 00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:37,960 Speaker 1: words are trust, transparency, technology, transformation, and finally, to your question, talent. 893 00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:41,480 Speaker 1: And coincidentally, they all start with the letter T. And 894 00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:45,440 Speaker 1: in every aspect of our industries where we come together 895 00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:50,320 Speaker 1: again at that intersection of marketing, media, advertising, entertainment, and technology. 896 00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:53,359 Speaker 1: If you find me a conversation that doesn't pivot on 897 00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:57,600 Speaker 1: one of those five words, I would be surprised, because 898 00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:01,040 Speaker 1: that's really to your question, talent is at the core, 899 00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:04,800 Speaker 1: and it's really hard to find right now. The talent 900 00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:09,920 Speaker 1: representation business is undergoing so much change as expected. You know, 901 00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:12,200 Speaker 1: bear in mind now the media links at U T A. 902 00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:14,360 Speaker 1: I have to use talent with a small T and 903 00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:17,200 Speaker 1: talent with a large T. U T A is in 904 00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:20,279 Speaker 1: the business of representing talent. We're in the business of 905 00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:25,279 Speaker 1: identifying talent through right head hunting, you know, practice, it's 906 00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:27,040 Speaker 1: a little different. So we do have to use a 907 00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:31,560 Speaker 1: capital to this multi occasion um hogging the questions again? Okay, 908 00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:34,320 Speaker 1: how about this is a good one. The lines between 909 00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:38,480 Speaker 1: brand funded content and advertising continue to blur. What potential 910 00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:41,120 Speaker 1: does candle mediacy in this space? I would, I would venture, 911 00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:43,160 Speaker 1: I guess a whole lot would I would agree that 912 00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:46,680 Speaker 1: is it's a question that answers itself almost I think, um, 913 00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:48,600 Speaker 1: and that's right. And by the way, lines are blurring 914 00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:52,040 Speaker 1: all over the place between content and advertising, between performance 915 00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:54,520 Speaker 1: advertising and brand advertising, I would almost say there is 916 00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:58,719 Speaker 1: no difference here brandformance thing or every all advertisers performance 917 00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:01,359 Speaker 1: and one subset of performing this brand. Another subset might 918 00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:04,800 Speaker 1: be product placement. Another subset might be true performance digital 919 00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:09,160 Speaker 1: digital call to action advertising. So I think, um, we're 920 00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:11,600 Speaker 1: very focused on that. We think that having having an 921 00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:14,719 Speaker 1: audience and having a connected audience where you can actually 922 00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:16,600 Speaker 1: speak and have a two way conversation with your audience 923 00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:19,319 Speaker 1: opens up these types of opportunities for modernization that just 924 00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:21,959 Speaker 1: weren't there ten years ago. Do you think that we're 925 00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:24,040 Speaker 1: obviously the time in media entertainment, there's a lot of 926 00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:26,880 Speaker 1: consolidation to your point of the need for a strong 927 00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:31,560 Speaker 1: independent idea factory more than ever. But do you think 928 00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:34,880 Speaker 1: that that that consolidation, that is there a danger of 929 00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:38,279 Speaker 1: the industry literally getting into you know, three or four 930 00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:42,920 Speaker 1: gigantic conglomerates that control everything. I think a lot will 931 00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:45,840 Speaker 1: be determined by what the Justice Department does with Amazon 932 00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:47,799 Speaker 1: and MGM right now. That's going to have a lot 933 00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:51,920 Speaker 1: to do with where this plays out. If the Justice 934 00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:54,959 Speaker 1: Department stops that deal, which I don't think they will, 935 00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:56,680 Speaker 1: I think that deal will go through. I think it's 936 00:49:56,719 --> 00:49:58,919 Speaker 1: a lot of noise, but the deal should go through. 937 00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:01,200 Speaker 1: There's no base is for it not to go through. 938 00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:04,000 Speaker 1: I'll put on my lawyer's heat. I don't wear it 939 00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:07,680 Speaker 1: very often, but I have it. Um. I think that 940 00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:10,359 Speaker 1: deal goes through, and if it does, I think that 941 00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:13,799 Speaker 1: bodes I don't know if you'd say this is bodes well, 942 00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:16,920 Speaker 1: Maybe it doesn't, but it bodes well for others in 943 00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:19,879 Speaker 1: the tech space to be making acquisition in the pure 944 00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:22,439 Speaker 1: content space. Do I think you end up with three 945 00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:26,239 Speaker 1: big players? No? Do I think you end up with consolidation. Yes, 946 00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:28,360 Speaker 1: you've made it clear that you're looking for you know, 947 00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:32,160 Speaker 1: very creator grouping companies. But is there you know, is 948 00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:33,799 Speaker 1: there a world where you would look at a more 949 00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:36,840 Speaker 1: traditional You know, there's some companies out there with a 950 00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:39,560 Speaker 1: few cable networks the studio. Is there any would you 951 00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:42,040 Speaker 1: play in those waters at all? I don't think so. 952 00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:43,960 Speaker 1: I don't think. I definitely don't want to play in 953 00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:45,920 Speaker 1: the cable network waters. I just don't think that's a 954 00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:49,920 Speaker 1: viable model for UM, and we're not. We don't. I 955 00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:52,920 Speaker 1: don't like distribution brands as I like content brands, brands 956 00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:55,160 Speaker 1: that actually mean something about the content. We think Hell 957 00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:57,440 Speaker 1: of Sunshine is a great content brand. Moon Bug is 958 00:50:57,480 --> 00:50:59,520 Speaker 1: becoming a great content brand you want to get behind. 959 00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:02,640 Speaker 1: And we have a have a significant piece of Westbrook, 960 00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:05,719 Speaker 1: which Will Will Smith Company that to content brand. Will 961 00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:09,239 Speaker 1: and Jada have. Actually one of the most distinctive shows 962 00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:11,879 Speaker 1: to come out of Facebook is Jada's Written People, which 963 00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:17,839 Speaker 1: is to all your point about authenticity, Yeah, I mean, 964 00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:21,160 Speaker 1: and it's great show. So look, we're I think the 965 00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:23,359 Speaker 1: answer to that would probably be no. We We are 966 00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:25,919 Speaker 1: focused on a couple of things. Creator driven companies where 967 00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:28,840 Speaker 1: the creator is front and center, a brand that arises 968 00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:31,000 Speaker 1: from that, because we want to transcend the individual creator 969 00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:34,040 Speaker 1: and get a brand that live beyond that that creator. Obviously, 970 00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:37,200 Speaker 1: but also that really speaks to a defined audience. Something 971 00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:39,600 Speaker 1: else to be Lord at Disney, know your audience and 972 00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:41,680 Speaker 1: speak to that audience and as a full way and 973 00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:44,160 Speaker 1: as a sort of a diverse way as you possibly can. 974 00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:47,360 Speaker 1: So we have you know, Hellos and China. It's it's 975 00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:51,400 Speaker 1: it's content um created and delivered by women for women audience. 976 00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:54,200 Speaker 1: Of course it's an inclusive audience appeals to a lot 977 00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:56,520 Speaker 1: of different people, but it's really by women for women. 978 00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:59,920 Speaker 1: Moonbug is kids um. I think, well you'll you'll can 979 00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:02,560 Speaker 1: he need to see us look at the very very 980 00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:05,400 Speaker 1: most premium content brands we can get or developed that 981 00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:07,640 Speaker 1: speech to certain audiences and then fill out the audience 982 00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:10,080 Speaker 1: map and then we'll then we think we'll be shaped 983 00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:12,400 Speaker 1: is Blackstone in for more? Do you have any of 984 00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:15,839 Speaker 1: the two billion left? I would imagine you probably that's 985 00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:18,600 Speaker 1: two billion thing I remember all came from the when 986 00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:21,799 Speaker 1: when Kevin and Tom started and started their company and 987 00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:24,720 Speaker 1: started going out there. I honestly I don't know variety 988 00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:26,880 Speaker 1: was the guilty of it. But the number two billion 989 00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:29,879 Speaker 1: that you guys had a billion dollar bankroll, well, let's 990 00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:32,359 Speaker 1: we've already deployed were setting the record straight here well, 991 00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:35,640 Speaker 1: there's been four billion dollars of assets that we pulled together. 992 00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:38,680 Speaker 1: But you know, I don't know. There's all sorts of 993 00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:41,480 Speaker 1: different you know, Blackstone from the fund, their own limited 994 00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:44,000 Speaker 1: partners in the fund can do sidecar investments. We've had 995 00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:46,840 Speaker 1: that you have some debt people. When we buy companies, 996 00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:49,120 Speaker 1: one of the things we insist on is they take 997 00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:51,160 Speaker 1: a lot of equity in the new company as part 998 00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:54,520 Speaker 1: of their consideration for the purchase, because we want everyone 999 00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:56,640 Speaker 1: to have skin in the game for the entire company. 1000 00:52:56,760 --> 00:53:00,640 Speaker 1: The best way to do that equity that crossed lateralizes 1001 00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:03,279 Speaker 1: everything in the company. Everyone has commitments for them to 1002 00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:05,839 Speaker 1: stay for a certain amount of time. Yeah, and then 1003 00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:07,800 Speaker 1: when when you go public or get bought, probably I 1004 00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:09,440 Speaker 1: think where our path is likely an I p O. 1005 00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:13,160 Speaker 1: Then that equity becomes you know, has some real, real 1006 00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:16,880 Speaker 1: monetize able value to it. But it's everyone rose in 1007 00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:19,080 Speaker 1: the same direction. That's why equity so important. Thank you. 1008 00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:20,800 Speaker 1: I would have felt bad if I hadn't asked you 1009 00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:24,400 Speaker 1: about the the future I p O. Do you have 1010 00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:26,480 Speaker 1: any kind of a timeline Do you think that that 1011 00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:29,000 Speaker 1: for that happening and do you think is there all 1012 00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:32,399 Speaker 1: their alternatives to going to an IPO route. Yeah, look, 1013 00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:34,560 Speaker 1: we have We've built a company now that has the 1014 00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:38,720 Speaker 1: scale and the financial um contours to actually go public 1015 00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:40,759 Speaker 1: whenever we want to go public. At this point, I 1016 00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:43,000 Speaker 1: would say the moon Bugs alternative to being bought by 1017 00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:45,279 Speaker 1: us itself could have been a public company. And so 1018 00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:48,400 Speaker 1: it's a very very the financial they're very robust. So 1019 00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:50,640 Speaker 1: it's a matter of the markets being ready and we 1020 00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:53,040 Speaker 1: us being ready as an organization to really want to 1021 00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:56,840 Speaker 1: be public. Has you need some infrastructure, public company accounting 1022 00:53:56,880 --> 00:53:59,640 Speaker 1: systems and you know, star box compliance and all that stuff, 1023 00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:01,239 Speaker 1: and we have to get get into that mode. And 1024 00:54:01,239 --> 00:54:03,440 Speaker 1: I would imagine also a couple of good hits and 1025 00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:07,160 Speaker 1: not hurt. So you know, I think I don't want 1026 00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:10,120 Speaker 1: to no specific timeframe, but it won't be many years 1027 00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:12,319 Speaker 1: from now. It'll be sooner than that. I don't my 1028 00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:15,759 Speaker 1: advices take a breather. Having gone from being public for 1029 00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:18,360 Speaker 1: the last four years to being private again as of December, 1030 00:54:18,719 --> 00:54:23,640 Speaker 1: it's kind of nice to be private. We have investors. Well, 1031 00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:25,680 Speaker 1: you have to have some liquidity event of some sort, 1032 00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:28,920 Speaker 1: and that's one way we can get being purchased another 1033 00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:31,879 Speaker 1: possible outcome. It's not what we're angling towards. You don't 1034 00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:34,480 Speaker 1: want to build a company to be to package it 1035 00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:36,279 Speaker 1: to be sold. If you want to build it. We 1036 00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:38,279 Speaker 1: want to build a company that can stand and live 1037 00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:40,239 Speaker 1: and thrive in its own right. And you need the 1038 00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:44,480 Speaker 1: fire in your belly to build. Yes, exactly there. Let 1039 00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:46,840 Speaker 1: me press you again on in terms of Candle Media, 1040 00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:49,239 Speaker 1: will you you you were born in a pandemic? Will 1041 00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:52,000 Speaker 1: you add some you have physical office space at some point? 1042 00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:57,719 Speaker 1: Will you have any kind of common infrastructure? Yeah? We will. Um. 1043 00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:01,160 Speaker 1: We have you know, the Candle Media uh corporate and 1044 00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:03,239 Speaker 1: we have I don't know six employees right now. We 1045 00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:05,960 Speaker 1: have a little office on Sunset Boulevard is nice, which 1046 00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:10,440 Speaker 1: sits geographic geographically in between the Moonbug offices in in 1047 00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:13,560 Speaker 1: Hollywood and the Westwood offices of Hello Sunshine. So we 1048 00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:16,480 Speaker 1: commute between the two. But look, we have big offices 1049 00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:19,840 Speaker 1: in London for Moonbug. There's about the several hundred people 1050 00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:22,800 Speaker 1: there we have you know, Hello Sunshine has a hundred 1051 00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:26,279 Speaker 1: plus people. They're mostly in Westwood but in other parts too. Um. 1052 00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:28,879 Speaker 1: So we have we have physical offices and we at 1053 00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:32,600 Speaker 1: corporate if you will, um, we're pulling everything together. We 1054 00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:35,040 Speaker 1: I think We have an interesting philosophy Tom Stags and I. 1055 00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:37,440 Speaker 1: One is that if you buy a company that can 1056 00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:40,440 Speaker 1: that has a capability that can be used across outside 1057 00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:41,960 Speaker 1: of its company and to all the other brands that 1058 00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:44,160 Speaker 1: we have, we're gonna use that. So here's an example. 1059 00:55:44,719 --> 00:55:47,440 Speaker 1: Um Moonbike has this guy, Simon Phillips. He's the head 1060 00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:51,360 Speaker 1: of licensing and merchandizing. He is probably the best executive 1061 00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:52,640 Speaker 1: in the world. He was at Disney, he was at 1062 00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:54,640 Speaker 1: Marvel when we be about Marvel. He was at Disney 1063 00:55:54,640 --> 00:55:57,120 Speaker 1: and rand Emia for Disney when we when he was there. 1064 00:55:57,719 --> 00:56:00,279 Speaker 1: When I first visited Moonbug, I saw Simon pill Ups, 1065 00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:02,120 Speaker 1: I couldn't believe I didn't know who was there. So 1066 00:56:02,239 --> 00:56:06,920 Speaker 1: he is the licensing merchandizing expert without parallel. And so 1067 00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:09,640 Speaker 1: to the extent that we have licensing and merchandizing needs 1068 00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:12,960 Speaker 1: in Hello Sunshine, and we also want the studio that 1069 00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:17,719 Speaker 1: that that produces Fauda, that Netflix show, that bar Way 1070 00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:20,239 Speaker 1: Road Pictures. That was a smaller person but a great one. 1071 00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:22,600 Speaker 1: Those guys are awesome and they you know, to the 1072 00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:24,839 Speaker 1: extent that they are less likely to have kind of 1073 00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:28,560 Speaker 1: licensable characters because it's pretty gritty stuff. That they do. 1074 00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:34,400 Speaker 1: But you know, but will Smith, I agree, it's incredible, 1075 00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:37,360 Speaker 1: so so some insans will will be We'll be managing 1076 00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:41,400 Speaker 1: all licensing and merchandising out of Moon bug Um. We 1077 00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:43,920 Speaker 1: have a great distribution team at Hello Sunshine, so maybe 1078 00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:46,160 Speaker 1: that will be the center of excellence for distribution for 1079 00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:48,520 Speaker 1: everyone over. So it doesn't have to sit a corporate 1080 00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:50,160 Speaker 1: for it to be a shared resource. I guess it 1081 00:56:50,200 --> 00:56:53,000 Speaker 1: is my point. So corporate will never be massive, but 1082 00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:55,040 Speaker 1: we all but we're going to tightly integrate all the 1083 00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:59,400 Speaker 1: operations across businesses. Thank you everyone for sticking with us. 1084 00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:01,840 Speaker 1: Thank you for all your insights, your candor. We really 1085 00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:04,880 Speaker 1: appreciate it. Thank you Austin south By Southwest. This has 1086 00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:15,719 Speaker 1: been a blast. Thanks for listening. Be sure to leave 1087 00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:18,760 Speaker 1: us a review at Apple Podcast, and please go to 1088 00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:22,800 Speaker 1: Variety dot com and sign up for varieties free Strictly 1089 00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:27,880 Speaker 1: Business newsletter covering media earnings, financial and investment news and more. 1090 00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:31,520 Speaker 1: And as always, be sure to tune in next week 1091 00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:34,680 Speaker 1: for another episode of Strictly Business. Ye