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Speaker 1: Welcome to a pathology with doctor Priya. Y'all know what

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Speaker 1: mondays are about. This is the place where you get

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Speaker 1: to come and listen to one of the best in

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Speaker 1: the world break it.

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Speaker 2: Down and let you know what's going on.

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Speaker 1: And I am really excited because a lot of people

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Speaker 1: do not know this aspect of a medical examiner's job,

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Speaker 1: and this is why she's one of the best in

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Speaker 1: the world.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Pria, how are you, honey.

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Speaker 3: I'm good. I'm good.

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Speaker 2: Well, I know you're tired. You've been out traps and

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Speaker 2: around all day.

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Speaker 3: That's okay. We're here honor to do it.

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Speaker 4: It's one of my like I don't know, I don't

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Speaker 4: know how to explain it, but one of my goals

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Speaker 4: in life or how I give back, that's how I

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Speaker 4: look at it.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, this is what I want people to know.

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Speaker 1: You did something today. I bet they don't realize you do,

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Speaker 1: and that is you went to a CRM scene of

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Speaker 1: a cold case and I preached.

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Speaker 2: On Zone seven.

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Speaker 1: Nothing takes the place of going to the scene.

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Speaker 2: You've got to see it to understand it.

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Speaker 4: Right, we did a cool thing where there's a cold case.

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Speaker 4: I don't want to give too much away, but we're

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Speaker 4: working on a cold case and we needed to examine

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Speaker 4: an identical car, and so, you know, hats off to

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Speaker 4: my colleagues who found an identical car. But it was

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Speaker 4: two hours more than two hours away each way, so

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Speaker 4: we went and took measurements. But I can't tell you

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Speaker 4: how much it convinced me, you know, in terms of

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Speaker 4: the story or against the story. I'll leave the cliffhanger.

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Speaker 4: We had a gut feeling, but seeing it in real

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Speaker 4: life is a different story. And just think about it's

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Speaker 4: an older car, right, cold cases are old generally, and

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Speaker 4: how much cars have changed even decade to decade, right

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Speaker 4: when I first started driving versus now, And so it

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Speaker 4: was fascinating to see the same exact make and model

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Speaker 4: of the car and get in it and realize, oh,

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Speaker 4: power windows, power locks didn't exist in every car, you know,

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Speaker 4: just things we take her granted. So it really was vital.

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Speaker 1: A car can be a crom scene, and that's how

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Speaker 1: people to understand if somebody is murdered in their house,

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Speaker 1: transported to the body dump location, that's three separate crom scenes.

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Speaker 4: Yes, one of my first cases in Rhode Island wasn't

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Speaker 4: a cold case. But it was actually she was followed

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Speaker 4: out of a store, stabbed in the car, then dumped

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Speaker 4: and then the car was driven away with the knife

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Speaker 4: still in the car. So it you know, it was

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Speaker 4: and it's a small town, so I'm like, wait, we

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Speaker 4: need to find out where the heck this car is

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Speaker 4: the weapon and then when when to trial they had

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Speaker 4: Really it was quite a feat if you think about it,

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Speaker 4: because it was a hotel parking lot, of store parking lot,

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Speaker 4: all sorts of things.

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Speaker 3: You have to get all the onlookers in town as.

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Speaker 4: Witnesses, so so dynamic, so you know, covering a wide area.

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Speaker 1: In my world, a cold case is typically three years

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Speaker 1: or more that there has been no new witnesses, no

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Speaker 1: new evidence, no new suspects.

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Speaker 2: Literally nothing has happened for at least three years.

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Speaker 1: You have already kind of told us this is decades.

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Speaker 1: So again, a lot of people that are maybe in

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Speaker 1: their twenties or thirties, they don't know that you used

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Speaker 1: not to be able to even adjust the.

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Speaker 2: Seat the seat was where it was in the car.

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Speaker 4: Well, you know, there's a lot. I mean, I'm forty seven.

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Speaker 4: I think about my first car versus my current car, right,

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Speaker 4: my parents bought me a new car. But it was

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Speaker 4: bare bones, right, It a Toyota Corolla that didn't even

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Speaker 4: have power windows, no power locks, no power windows, so

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Speaker 4: there were knobs I had to roll up and down

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Speaker 4: just to ask for directions or something. Right, sure, And

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Speaker 4: so even within my lifetime, right like that, I've been

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Speaker 4: driving since I was like, say twenty so we're talking

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Speaker 4: twenty seven years. Like how much car Now? I drive

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Speaker 4: a Subaru that tells me if I shift a lane

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Speaker 4: too fast or if there's someone in my rear view

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Speaker 4: side view.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it has all the bells and whistles.

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Speaker 2: Who knows.

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Speaker 4: I don't even know what half the dings are in

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Speaker 4: that car, but bell right, it goes.

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Speaker 1: Beat, beet beep.

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Speaker 4: You know, I just know that I'm safely driving and

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Speaker 4: that's it. But you know, when we're talking about the

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Speaker 4: feasibility of any story, right like even in the cold

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Speaker 4: case I'm working, it's in another state and I'm like,

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Speaker 4: I might need to go to the scene just to

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Speaker 4: understand the railing where the person was found, the nature

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Speaker 4: of the territory.

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Speaker 3: It's a very different area than New England.

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Speaker 4: It's just fascinating, you know, when you put yourself looking

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Speaker 4: at a two dimensional picture versus being in a right

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Speaker 4: three dimensional reality. It's very different. So I love visiting

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Speaker 4: the scene. And actually it's not just for cold cases though.

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Speaker 4: You know, my scene acumen was really developed in my

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Speaker 4: prior medical examiner work because we used to respond to scenes,

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Speaker 4: not all scenes, but you know, we would always review

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Speaker 4: all the pictures from every case, but on occasion, if

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Speaker 4: there was a suspicious death, obvious homicide and the bodies

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Speaker 4: at the scene, we would often go with baby reenactment cases,

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Speaker 4: you know, And I could always visit any scene that

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Speaker 4: I wanted to separately with police, but you know, on

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Speaker 4: a case by case basis. But I've gone to many

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Speaker 4: of scenes in my career and honestly, it really sets

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Speaker 4: my eye for what is abnormal or you know what,

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Speaker 4: what's out of place, what's different about it. You just

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Speaker 4: get a feeling for it, you know, when you're in

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Speaker 4: that reality. So it's not just cold cases, but you know,

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Speaker 4: I think when you're not when I'm not like the

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Speaker 4: primary doctor on the case, right, we're removed because of

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Speaker 4: time and logistics. Anything that can make the case more tangible,

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Speaker 4: more real, helps a lot, right, Like in terms of

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Speaker 4: what was the you know, was the weather the same?

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Speaker 3: Was the you know, was it raining snowing? Like is

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Speaker 3: it the same?

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Speaker 2: Is it? You know?

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Speaker 3: Like we even.

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Speaker 4: Talked about in with Joe jackalone on his podcast. He

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Speaker 4: had gone to the Ellen Greenberg's apartment which has now

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Speaker 4: been redone the apartment complex, but you know we're talking

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Speaker 4: he visited the scene even in that case. Oh sure, right,

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Speaker 4: so in the vicinity and made the effort. So when

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Speaker 4: you're trying to put the stories together and the facts,

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Speaker 4: sometimes it's better to visualize it if you can and

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Speaker 4: put yourself in that position.

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Speaker 1: Oh. I think it's the most important thing. It's the

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Speaker 1: most important thing you can do. Otherwise all you have

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Speaker 1: is to to mention. And that's what I wanted people

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Speaker 1: to understand about you, that today it just happened to

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Speaker 1: be a cold case. But it's not just the body

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Speaker 1: for you. And a lot of people think that they

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Speaker 1: think the crime scene belongs to me and the body

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Speaker 1: belongs to you, which it does. But if you have

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Speaker 1: questions or things that are not answered, I think it's

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Speaker 1: imperative that you go and walk it right.

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Speaker 4: And you have the privilege often of working the scene right,

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Speaker 4: like collecting evidence and so you might have that visual

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Speaker 4: and you're taking pictures to relate to me, right, how

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Speaker 4: it's set up, how it's organized, and where the where

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Speaker 4: everything happened. But really, you know, I'm I'm such a

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Speaker 4: visual person that it helps me a lot to go

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Speaker 4: see it.

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Speaker 1: There's no question I'm the same. I am visual. I

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Speaker 1: must walk it.

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Speaker 2: But here's the other thing. If you and I had any.

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Speaker 1: Question about what happened to a victim, or let's just

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Speaker 1: stay a person, they may not be a victim. If

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Speaker 1: we could walk that together and I could show you

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Speaker 1: here's the scene. This is the home, but just on

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Speaker 1: the other side of the backyard is this, across the

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Speaker 1: street is this? But what is down the block is

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Speaker 1: what's critical. It's gonna make so much more sense for you.

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Speaker 1: And then you may be able to look for things

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Speaker 1: or ask me about something that I didn't know to

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Speaker 1: look for. So it's a great two way street to me.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's funny.

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Speaker 4: I've lived in different environments myself, right, And I used

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Speaker 4: to say, Baltimore City changed block to block, you know,

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Speaker 4: I lived historic neighborhood. But then I always walked my

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Speaker 4: German shepherd with me and two blocks over. It's not

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Speaker 4: as nice an area that it changes to night. I mean, right,

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Speaker 4: so you don't know where the traffic is coming from,

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Speaker 4: where people are coming from, the nature of the beast,

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Speaker 4: you know, where the home is situated, if there's I mean,

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Speaker 4: it was interesting just to go to the house where

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Speaker 4: the car was held. Today. I walk up their driveway

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Speaker 4: and there's a beautiful like lake in the backyard and

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Speaker 4: I was like, wow, I never would have thought in

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Speaker 4: suburbia there's this beautiful lake.

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Speaker 3: And he's like, yeah, you know, that's why we.

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Speaker 4: Live here obviously, but you know, well that's sort of different, right, unexpected?

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Speaker 3: What is there? Water? Is there a quarry? Is there?

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Speaker 3: I don't know, construction going on. There's so many.

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Speaker 1: Things, and does that limit who can go there? So

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Speaker 1: does now your suspect pull free?

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Speaker 3: Well?

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Speaker 4: And the funniest thing I want to say in Rhode

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Speaker 4: Island is Rhode Island direction, which is.

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Speaker 3: You know, I moved here fifteen years ago.

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Speaker 4: And they'd be like, oh, make a left of where

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Speaker 4: the seers used to be and I'm like where the

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Speaker 4: seers used to be And.

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Speaker 2: I was like, wait what And I was.

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Speaker 3: Like, it's not even that there's a Sears here.

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Speaker 4: You have to know that decades ago there was a

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Speaker 4: Sears I mean, you know, but or the Almax or

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Speaker 4: the you know, Apex whatever, the local grocery. And I

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Speaker 4: was like, wait, what what kind of directions are these?

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Speaker 1: You know, Rhode Island sounds southern. People turned it the

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Speaker 1: old Baker farm. The Bakers haven't lived there since eighteen

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Speaker 1: forty seven.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and You're like, well that's thirty years ago, you know.

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Speaker 4: And honestly, working on cold cases, you have to remember

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Speaker 4: that you can attempt to go to the scene, but

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Speaker 4: the scene.

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Speaker 3: May not even be there anymore.

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Speaker 4: Right, the development changes, you know, the buildings could have

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Speaker 4: been knocked down. I mean, think about how much development

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Speaker 4: and urban sprawl there is, or suburban sprawl, if you will, right,

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Speaker 4: I mean, I remember visiting at you and Atlanta and

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Speaker 4: I'm thinking, wow, we're really far from downtown and that's still.

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Speaker 3: Considered Atlanta really, you know, and I'm.

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Speaker 4: Having dinner somewhere else and we're staying at a hotel.

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Speaker 4: But you know, then to take an UBERD to downtown

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Speaker 4: it was quite you know, maybe half an hour, but

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Speaker 4: it's still within the city limits or whatnot, or so

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Speaker 4: and how much that's probably changed since you've lived there

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Speaker 4: and grown up there. And I remember even my parents

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Speaker 4: area or where I grew up in Maryland.

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Speaker 3: I learned to drive there. When we moved there was.

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Speaker 4: Farmland, and then as I've grown up and moved away,

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Speaker 4: it's it's now gone to again suburban sprawl. There's an

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Speaker 4: overpass over the highway just to get to my childhood

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Speaker 4: grocery store a mile away. So if you told me

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Speaker 4: make a left or right, or this farm used to

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Speaker 4: be here, that's not pertinent.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you can't even visualize.

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Speaker 2: That anymore correct.

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Speaker 1: But you know, you go into the scene and having

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Speaker 1: a three sixty view that I believe would also help

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Speaker 1: you when you have to do press conferences. And I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking like mass disasters, high profile cases where they won't

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Speaker 1: to hear from you, but you being able to field

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Speaker 1: questions and answer questions because you've seen it well.

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Speaker 4: And I think I think it's even at a more

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Speaker 4: basic level than that. So every autopsy that I went

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Speaker 4: to the scene, I wrote a like a scene report,

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Speaker 4: like a paragraph or two.

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Speaker 3: About my visit.

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Speaker 4: And then in court, you know, in court, I could say, yes,

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Speaker 4: I went to the scene. You know, I was called

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Speaker 4: immediately or my investigator was called, and this suspicion was

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Speaker 4: there that they you know, needed to call the.

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Speaker 3: The you know, medical examiner on call, which was me.

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Speaker 4: That's you know, that's where we're we're at and then

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Speaker 4: I could give them the details just from.

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Speaker 2: That and that would mean so much to the family

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Speaker 2: that you went.

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Speaker 4: Oh yes, yes, you know, like I would go and

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Speaker 4: they would you know, they appreciated my involvement from time zero,

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Speaker 4: you know what I mean really literally at the start

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Speaker 4: of it.

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Speaker 1: You know, we have these cases now where these vehicles

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Speaker 1: are being found in bodies of water everywhere that have

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Speaker 1: been submerged for thirty years and the families are just

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Speaker 1: now finding out it was just an accident. They just

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Speaker 1: skid it off the road. There's no damage around the

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Speaker 1: car except where it hit the front end going in.

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Speaker 1: And you know, all these years they didn't know if

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Speaker 1: they had been kidnapped or murdered or held somewhere.

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Speaker 3: The closure is key.

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Speaker 1: It's key these answers that are being given. So again

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Speaker 1: going to the scene, you standing there along with me

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Speaker 1: along with detectives to say yes, they're still in their

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Speaker 1: seat belts or these injuries are conducive to a wreck

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Speaker 1: and a wreck only.

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Speaker 4: Well right, And I mean having something like the context

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Speaker 4: of the car is even interesting because are they belted

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Speaker 4: into the car? Does the does the crash pattern of

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Speaker 4: the car make sense that it is an accident?

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Speaker 3: Or were they placed in a car and then rolled

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Speaker 3: off a cliff? Right?

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Speaker 4: Like you can tell that based on the accident pattern

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Speaker 4: and injuries too.

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Speaker 1: Well, let me ask you this, doctor, I have a

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Speaker 1: way that I work like as soon well actually even

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Speaker 1: before I exit my vehicle, I start, Do you have

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Speaker 1: a way that you operate or is it just more

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Speaker 1: organic for you? No?

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Speaker 4: So what we do is you know I would uh,

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Speaker 4: today I went with you know, this is a private

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Speaker 4: case that we're we're a cold case that we're working on.

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Speaker 4: But whatever it be, it's usually not just me. It's

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Speaker 4: usually let's say, an investigator in me or you know,

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Speaker 4: a colleague or two going to the scene and we

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Speaker 4: just start like what time, you know, sort of documenting

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Speaker 4: everything very step by step. What time did we get there,

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Speaker 4: what's the address? There's usually you know, if it's an

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Speaker 4: active crime scene, right, there's an entry cop you know,

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Speaker 4: who'll take our name and document our entry and then

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Speaker 4: I go, I sort of take it all in in

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Speaker 4: terms of orientation, whether it's a house, a park, you know,

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Speaker 4: what road we're entering, et cetera. So it could be

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Speaker 4: outdoor or indoor scene. But then it's where is the body?

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Speaker 4: You know, and I think we do do a lot

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Speaker 4: of like talking before touching the body, So talking we do,

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Speaker 4: talking and photographing. So I think it's important to know

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Speaker 4: like who's been at the scene, who called it in?

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Speaker 4: Like why, how did we discover that this was an incident?

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Speaker 4: How was the body found? Like was ems? Did ems

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Speaker 4: come to the scene? Obviously in a cold case, that's

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Speaker 4: completely different. Cold case is like today, I'm working without

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Speaker 4: anybody there, right, this is just extracting facts from the

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Speaker 4: file and then seeing if the story fit the evidence

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Speaker 4: available for measurement and examination or not. So it's sort

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Speaker 4: of two different approaches, if you will, whether it's an

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Speaker 4: active scene or a cold case.

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Speaker 2: That makes sense.

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Speaker 1: So you also you have a team approach, and that's

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Speaker 1: something that I preach with these young you know, detectives

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Speaker 1: and all that you have, in my opinion, one of

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Speaker 1: the greatest professions because it is built that you work

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Speaker 1: as a team, so that if I forget something, you're

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Speaker 1: not and if you and I miss something, Fred's not.

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Speaker 1: I mean that's the whole point when you get all

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Speaker 1: the right people together.

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Speaker 4: And I think it's important because then you have you

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Speaker 4: know yet, like the double check or what was that again?

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Speaker 4: Or did we make you make sure we got everything now?

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 4: The one thing I do want to say is, whether

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Speaker 4: it's an active case or a cold case, you're at

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Speaker 4: the scene sort of taking in information and gathering photographs.

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Speaker 4: And you know, the photographs in any case, right new

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Speaker 4: or old, really document so much. So I think I

320
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Speaker 4: not just document the body and the changes, you know,

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Speaker 4: the post mortem changes if it's an active scene, but

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Speaker 4: getting all sort of the lay of the land documented

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Speaker 4: by photographs or the approach or you know, what doesn't

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Speaker 4: fit all of that is really important because you know,

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Speaker 4: even if it's my case, I'm not going to court

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Speaker 4: till two three years later at the earliest.

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Speaker 3: Right now, I don't remember all the details.

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Speaker 4: But if I have a methodical approach and then I

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Speaker 4: photograph it and say, oh, yes, I remember this, you

330
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Speaker 4: know I took this picture. I'm standing there while my

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Speaker 4: investigator took the picture, that really then solidifies the evidence.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, when I was younger, there was a

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Speaker 1: TV show that showed somebody doing an autopsy and the

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Speaker 1: doctor taught the whole time they.

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Speaker 2: Were doing it.

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Speaker 1: They explained what they were doing, when they did it,

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Speaker 1: why they did it it, And I sometimes will, you know,

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Speaker 1: absorb that same thing. And when I do a video,

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Speaker 1: a lot of times I will talk and point out

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Speaker 1: what I'm seeing and why I think it's important.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: So when I teach my residence, like or i'm teaching someone,

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Speaker 4: you know, whether it's I teach a lot of people

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Speaker 4: right like how to do an autopsy, what I'm looking for.

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Speaker 4: I always say, there's a mental checklist I have. But

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Speaker 4: when i'm teaching, like if I'm showing someone, I will

347
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Speaker 4: talk them through my sort of checklist. You know, it's

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Speaker 4: not mental at that point. It's first, I cut here,

349
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Speaker 4: I look at this, I look at that. I always

350
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Speaker 4: do everything very methodically, meaning like the same way every time,

351
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Speaker 4: whether it be at the scene, but I always approach

352
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Speaker 4: I say, I look at the head first, and I

353
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Speaker 4: look at the front of the body. Then I look

354
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Speaker 4: at the right side of the body, the left side

355
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Speaker 4: of the body. Then I flip it and I look

356
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Speaker 4: at the back and I look at the right side

357
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Speaker 4: of the body and the let you know, so I

358
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Speaker 4: teach them because then they have like an organized approach

359
00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:06,240
Speaker 4: to it as well, you know, and I train investigators

360
00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:08,240
Speaker 4: or police, like when I gave you guys lectures, it's

361
00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:10,480
Speaker 4: the same thing. It's like if you do it the

362
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Speaker 4: same way, you don't you have more you know, not

363
00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:15,639
Speaker 4: that we're not perfect, but like you know, you have

364
00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:18,080
Speaker 4: less of a chance of missing something making sure you

365
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:22,520
Speaker 4: cover everything because Murphy's law, right, It's not like TV.

366
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Speaker 3: The scenes are always in the in a terrible area

367
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Speaker 3: with terrible lighting. It's never like like a stage that

368
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Speaker 3: you can.

369
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Speaker 4: See everything and you can it's clean and there's no

370
00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:37,479
Speaker 4: brush in the way. You're not climbing over trash or

371
00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:41,600
Speaker 4: animals or you know whatever it is, right so, or

372
00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:44,720
Speaker 4: slipping on ice or getting rained on or whatever it is.

373
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Speaker 4: So you know, if you have that sort of methodology

374
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Speaker 4: to fall back on, then it it comes through. And

375
00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:57,800
Speaker 4: you know, it's interesting because I think, you know, cold cases,

376
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Speaker 4: why I like to do it. I sort of have

377
00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:03,520
Speaker 4: a philosophy like it's my way of giving back because

378
00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:07,120
Speaker 4: there's very few people with my skill set that can

379
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:09,919
Speaker 4: approach them and help people looking into cold cases.

380
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Speaker 3: And really I.

381
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Speaker 4: Go back to it, but that wall at crime con

382
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Speaker 4: where families have their loved ones pictures like that is powerful.

383
00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:22,000
Speaker 4: Right When I saw that, it you know, really empowered me,

384
00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:24,720
Speaker 4: Like it made me sad because there's so many families

385
00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:27,600
Speaker 4: that want closure, but even if one of them gets

386
00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:33,560
Speaker 4: some movement on their case, that's one less family worrying

387
00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:36,680
Speaker 4: or you know, about what happened to their loved one.

388
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:38,840
Speaker 4: I do cold cases because of that.

389
00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:42,040
Speaker 3: And then in some ways, you know, I think anytime.

390
00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:46,560
Speaker 4: You're looking at a case sort of holistically meeting the file,

391
00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:48,920
Speaker 4: like I'm not in the trenches doing the autosy, but

392
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:51,560
Speaker 4: now I have the you know what investigation is there

393
00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:56,800
Speaker 4: or isn't there? Right, Like we can be handicapped buy

394
00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:00,000
Speaker 4: what's not there. But you're also out of luck because

395
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,919
Speaker 4: because this is from twenty thirty years ago, right that

396
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,119
Speaker 4: we're not going to go back and get anything else.

397
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:06,600
Speaker 3: Maybe we can go and.

398
00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:09,760
Speaker 4: Interview a survivor or two, but you know, it depends

399
00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:11,720
Speaker 4: on the timeframe, and.

400
00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:15,320
Speaker 3: You know, so it's interesting sort of to know.

401
00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:17,719
Speaker 4: You know, in an ideal world, I would have all

402
00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:21,120
Speaker 4: of this, but if I don't, what still can I

403
00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:24,760
Speaker 4: work around or try to figure out despite missing pieces

404
00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:28,960
Speaker 4: of information? And that's what I really like, because that's reality, right.

405
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:34,080
Speaker 4: Not every case is going to have the perfect investigation

406
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:38,080
Speaker 4: and the perfect autopsy and autopsy pictures. You have to remember,

407
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:41,040
Speaker 4: even when I trained in two thousand and nine twenty ten,

408
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:45,760
Speaker 4: I was trained on black and white photographs eight by ten,

409
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:50,720
Speaker 4: so digital photography still wasn't the norm, you know, which

410
00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:54,120
Speaker 4: means that pictures were more limited. We had to develop

411
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:55,200
Speaker 4: them in a dark room.

412
00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,560
Speaker 3: There was a lot of sort of.

413
00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,399
Speaker 4: You know, a different approach to autopsy and autopsy pictures.

414
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:06,440
Speaker 4: Now I can take three hundred five hundred pictures, store

415
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:09,119
Speaker 4: them on a thumb drive right like like on the

416
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:15,040
Speaker 4: cloud like nothing. So really, older cases even have that

417
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:18,280
Speaker 4: limitation in terms of availability of photographs.

418
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,800
Speaker 1: And you know, back in the day, people wrote fairly

419
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:27,600
Speaker 1: good reports, but they didn't always add everything that somebody

420
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:31,679
Speaker 1: told them. So sometimes being able to reinterview some of

421
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:35,560
Speaker 1: these witnesses as paramount. We had a case where in

422
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:39,480
Speaker 1: the photograph they had taken the time to do a

423
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,960
Speaker 1: kind of far away of this side table than a medium,

424
00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:47,960
Speaker 1: then a close up of these eye drops thirty years later,

425
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:49,440
Speaker 1: it wasn't in the report.

426
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 2: I didn't know why the eye drops were important.

427
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:54,119
Speaker 1: But when we went back and we were able to

428
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,600
Speaker 1: talk to the sister, she told her that her sibling

429
00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:00,560
Speaker 1: would have never left the house with out the eye

430
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:04,960
Speaker 1: drops because they had a like a dry situation. I see,

431
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,880
Speaker 1: I see, and she wouldn't have left them, she would

432
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:08,480
Speaker 1: have taken them.

433
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,520
Speaker 2: So she knew, she knew that she didn't leave on

434
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:12,000
Speaker 2: her own.

435
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:15,200
Speaker 1: The detective knew it and knew to take a up

436
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:18,760
Speaker 1: close photograph, but it wasn't in the report anywhere. Sometimes

437
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:20,720
Speaker 1: you got to go back and talk to the people

438
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:21,640
Speaker 1: involved too.

439
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:27,600
Speaker 4: Definitely, And that's really it, you know again, Like I think,

440
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:31,640
Speaker 4: even when we've been at conferences and seen photos are

441
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:35,200
Speaker 4: presented to the audience, right, you're taking in a lot

442
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:39,680
Speaker 4: of information, right, and some things may be important that

443
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:43,639
Speaker 4: were missed. Some things maybe red herrings, like someone's eyes

444
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:48,679
Speaker 4: jumped to and they skip over the sort of important details,

445
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 4: or it brings up a question that can you know,

446
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:56,439
Speaker 4: help hone, even like an investigation like a toxicology in

447
00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,320
Speaker 4: you know, eye drops. Now, I'm scarred from our last

448
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:01,480
Speaker 4: conversation time me here, I drops I think, oh, my god,

449
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:02,360
Speaker 4: did someone kill.

450
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:03,159
Speaker 2: Someone with them right?

451
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 3: Right?

452
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:09,119
Speaker 4: So, you know, something as innocuous as that, or a

453
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 4: glass liquid or I don't know, an an unidentified pill

454
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:16,800
Speaker 4: or something, you know, and it's happened to me. Even

455
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:20,359
Speaker 4: when I when I revisit autopsies, meaning I do the autopsy,

456
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,919
Speaker 4: the toxicology comes back. Then I'm editing the report a

457
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 4: month later, a month and a half later, and you know,

458
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:29,440
Speaker 4: finalizing it is what I'm saying, And I revisit all

459
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,919
Speaker 4: the pictures to make sure that it's you know, the

460
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 4: case is fresh in my mind, but all the like,

461
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:38,720
Speaker 4: nothing jumps out at me again, does that make sense? Like, oh,

462
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:42,199
Speaker 4: the pattern of that wound now in the context of

463
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:46,399
Speaker 4: the investigation that has gone further, may give me another clue.

464
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 4: Maybe I should let the police know about this pattern

465
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:52,160
Speaker 4: of the wound, like, oh my god, like it from

466
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 4: far away. Sometimes, you know, when you take a step

467
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,800
Speaker 4: back and look farther away, it's actually you see a

468
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 4: pattern that's more evident than when you were right next

469
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,639
Speaker 4: to the body. And so that's what I also like

470
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 4: about cold cases, because it's about seeing the whole thing,

471
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:13,399
Speaker 4: maybe stepping away from it, fresh eyes, new information. You know,

472
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 4: you just never know what will come to. And then

473
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 4: of course we have techniques like authoram right, Like they've

474
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 4: done so much for cold cases in terms of the

475
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 4: DNA aspect of things.

476
00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 1: Amazing. Yeah, you can't say enough good about authorm. I'm

477
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:28,959
Speaker 1: gonna tell you authream.

478
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 4: And then there's names right where families can enter information,

479
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,160
Speaker 4: emmys can enter information, police can enter information, and then

480
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,440
Speaker 4: these matches are made and you know, you just never

481
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 4: know where things will go with the technology. So revisiting

482
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,680
Speaker 4: cold cases and you know it may not be the

483
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 4: autopsy that solves it. But I you know, I work

484
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 4: on various cold case committees, and I'll say like, oh,

485
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,959
Speaker 4: well they collected this specific evidence from this case. Go

486
00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 4: see if that swab is still there to test, you know,

487
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:04,199
Speaker 4: so it maybe it's so much technical language, it's so

488
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 4: much or this injury happened, like check her fingernail swabbings

489
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:13,199
Speaker 4: or check his you know, the pants strap or the

490
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 4: belt or something. And you can really get you know,

491
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:21,679
Speaker 4: help investigating agencies hone in on what evidence needs. I mean,

492
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 4: you can't test everything in a cold case right to

493
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 4: spread it spread you know, you have to hone in

494
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,879
Speaker 4: and say Okay, this is the highest likelihood of giving.

495
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 3: Us an answer this far out.

496
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 4: So that's what I also really like doing on when

497
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:37,679
Speaker 4: we talk about a team approach, you know, in a

498
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:42,880
Speaker 4: cold case, it's like, oh, hey, look at that glass

499
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 4: it has a lipprint, you know, or why is the

500
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,880
Speaker 4: table shifted over? Or whatever you can say about it, right,

501
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 4: but I often am asked to look at the autopsy

502
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,439
Speaker 4: just to give you know, a time of death.

503
00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 3: Is this hair significant? You know what the.

504
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 4: Rigor mortis tell us, and that can maybe hone them in.

505
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 4: I don't know on suspects, evidence, whatnot.

506
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 1: Absolutely well, doctor, as always, there is just so much

507
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 1: information you give us so quickly, and you just you know,

508
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:19,680
Speaker 1: you're able to break it down and I.

509
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:20,679
Speaker 2: Just appreciate you.

510
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 1: Oh well, thank you so much, and I can't wait

511
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 1: to hear more details once you can tell us about

512
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 1: this case.

513
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 2: Yeah.

514
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 4: Well, you know, I don't want to be presumptuous, but

515
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 4: today really was fulfilling, you know, so I hope it

516
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,200
Speaker 4: moves forward and we can take this somewhere.

517
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:40,639
Speaker 1: So y'all, thanks for joining us with pathology with doctor Priya,

518
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:42,680
Speaker 1: and we will see y'all next week.

519
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:43,640
Speaker 2: Thank you, doc.

520
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:50,639
Speaker 4: Bye,