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Speaker 1: Who better to understand art than the artists themselves. Each week,

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Speaker 1: the Talk House Podcast pairs musicians, filmmakers, and other creative

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Speaker 1: minds for illuminating one on one conversations that touch on

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Speaker 1: everything from the mechanics of music making to their favorite

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Speaker 1: candy bar to their social and emotional wellbeing. You never

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Speaker 1: know where these chats are going to go, but it's

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Speaker 1: always somewhere these artists haven't gone before. Listener favorites from

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Speaker 1: the past few seasons include Jeff Tweety from Wilco with

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Speaker 1: Abby Jacobson from Broad City, Guierramo del Toro from many

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Speaker 1: many movies including Pinocchio with William Friedkin of Exorcist fame

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Speaker 1: and Kim Deal of the nineties, Grunjack the Breeders with

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Speaker 1: Courtney Barnett, indie rock artist. Every week has a new pairing,

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Speaker 1: so subscribe to The Talk House Podcast in your favorite

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Speaker 1: platform today. Before we start the episode, wanted to share

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Speaker 1: some tragic news. Brian Vasquez, the composer of our theme

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Speaker 1: music and our interstitial music, as well as the theme

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Speaker 1: for my show Takeline and for other cricket properties like

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Speaker 1: Dare We Say, passed away earlier this week with his

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Speaker 1: friends and his family around him.

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Speaker 2: As you may know, Brian was diagnosed with leukemia in November.

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Speaker 2: We mentioned it on the show at the time with

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Speaker 2: the link to the go fundme supporting Brian's medical costs,

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Speaker 2: which many of you kindly contributed to, and we're very

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Speaker 2: grateful for that.

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Speaker 1: Here on x Ray, we won't forget Brian's contributions to

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Speaker 1: the show. His generosity, is amazing talent, his positive attitude,

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Speaker 1: and of course through his music. He'll always be a

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Speaker 1: part of the show. Is a joy to work with,

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Speaker 1: as anyone who had the opportunity to collaborate with him.

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Speaker 1: Contest warning, this podcast contains spoilers for the first four

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Speaker 1: episodes of The Bad Batch Season two.

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Speaker 3: Hello.

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Speaker 1: My name is Jason Concepcion and I'm Rosie Nike and

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Speaker 1: welcome to x Vision, the Crooked Media podcast where we

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Speaker 1: dived into your favorite shows, movies, comics, and pop culture.

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Speaker 2: In this episode. In the previously on, we're gonna be

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Speaker 2: talking about that VFX union that simmering in Hollywood.

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Speaker 3: Let's go, let's go.

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Speaker 2: It's time to happen some very interesting parallels with the

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Speaker 2: comic book union struggles. We're gonna be talking more about

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Speaker 2: the AI Art conversation with a very interesting and quite

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Speaker 2: unexpected update in the airlock, we're gonna be catching up

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Speaker 2: on a Bad Batch season two. I know our discord

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Speaker 2: is excited. It's gonna be episodes one to four. There's

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Speaker 2: a lot of fun, weird stuff in there. And in

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Speaker 2: the nerd out Rodney pictures us on a secret invasion

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Speaker 2: scroll theory that I am actually shocked we hadn't already

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Speaker 2: thought about. So we're gonna be talking about this.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I think it's a good one coming up.

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Speaker 1: Let's get into the previously on Okay, first up. As

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Speaker 1: reported by Vulture January thirteenth, twenty twenty three, story written

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Speaker 1: by Chris Lee, VFX workers.

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Speaker 3: In the movie industry.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to say Hollywood, but I think an important

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Speaker 1: wrinkle in this story and the issues herein is that

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Speaker 1: it's global. There's often no physical proximity of these workers

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Speaker 1: to the places where these movies are made. They're all

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Speaker 1: over the world. So essentially, these workers all across the

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Speaker 1: globe are talking about forming an union. Here's a quote

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Speaker 1: from the piece. Talk to any VFX artists or tech

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Speaker 1: working in modern Hollywood, and certain complaints come up over

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Speaker 1: and over again, the punishing deadlines, the grueling work hours,

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Speaker 1: too few workers charged with too much work underpayment, and

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Speaker 1: systematic quote pixel fucking, an industry phrase used to describe

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Speaker 1: the behavior of nippicking clients who lack the VFX knowledge

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Speaker 1: to communicate their needs. I think that that last bit

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Speaker 1: is an important part of this. This is an incredibly

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Speaker 1: skill based, tech based, obviously specialized field, and I think

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Speaker 1: it seems like magic if you're not directly involved in

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Speaker 1: creating this stuff. Yes, and I think it can be

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Speaker 1: very easy to say, well, can't you just like make

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Speaker 1: the fir move when you don't know what the hell

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Speaker 1: you're talking about. And the end result of this is

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Speaker 1: artists being put through the ringer to create stuff. And

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Speaker 1: the MCU Marvel is front and center of this just

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Speaker 1: because of the weight of the footprint that they have

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Speaker 1: in the space.

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Speaker 2: Yes, this whole article is just full of brilliant reporting,

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Speaker 2: but there are some unbelievable numbers in this article about

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Speaker 2: how you know, in the era of a kind of

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Speaker 2: like an industrialits and magic, Like just post the original

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Speaker 2: Star Wars, you're talking about like ten percent of all

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Speaker 2: movies that would have any kind of CG post production

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Speaker 2: and now it's ninety percent yeah right, And not just that,

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Speaker 2: but places like Marvel, which you know, this was something

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Speaker 2: we spoke about this topic before in summer last year,

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Speaker 2: when this massive amount of stories, Reddit threads, tweets came

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Speaker 2: out about the way that Marvel had been treating people

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Speaker 2: in post production houses. And one of the biggest complaints

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Speaker 2: that come up against here is one of the ironically

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Speaker 2: comes from one of the best things that Marvel does,

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Speaker 2: which is where they take an under represented or newer

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Speaker 2: director who has maybe only made a few indie movies

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Speaker 2: Chloe Jao Tyker, Ryan Coogler, and then there doesn't seem

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Speaker 2: to be a good go between between that director, the studio,

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Speaker 2: and the VFX. So one of the things that they

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Speaker 2: get into quite detailed here, which is just shocking, is

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Speaker 2: this kind of having to rewrite the entire end of

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Speaker 2: the movie a month before they're meant to be done,

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Speaker 2: and then they're having to rebuild from scratch because a

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Speaker 2: lot of times they'll just say this happens instead, and

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Speaker 2: then you have an artist who has to craft that

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Speaker 2: entire thing. There is also a number in here, I

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Speaker 2: believe where and this one is really painful when you

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Speaker 2: think about how much money these movies make. I believe

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Speaker 2: they said that they did a survey of payment of

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Speaker 2: people who worked in these fields. One of them, the

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Speaker 2: lowest pay that they found was like seventeen dollars and

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Speaker 2: thirty four cents an hour, which is just absolutely nightmarish

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Speaker 2: for these eighteen hour days. You know that you have

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Speaker 2: to work to be able to finish this movie that

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Speaker 2: is going to make a billion dollars. So I'm really

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Speaker 2: glad that there's kind of this voracious quest for unionization.

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Speaker 2: But the thing that I find really interesting from reading

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Speaker 2: this article that kind of blew my mind. I didn't

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Speaker 2: really realize how similar the problem is. As you kind

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Speaker 2: of very astutely pointed out, Jason, the lack of a

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Speaker 2: physical space that all of these people work in. It's

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Speaker 2: not a warehouse, it's not.

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Speaker 3: An office, makes it harder.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there are twelve, fifteen, sixteen, eighteen twenty houses sometimes

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Speaker 2: all around the world working on this. And the biggest

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Speaker 2: similarity to comics, a lot of people who do this

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Speaker 2: job are freelancers. It is incredibly hard to unionize as freelancers.

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Speaker 2: That is what for a long time has kept comics

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Speaker 2: so hard to unionize because when you write a comic

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Speaker 2: book for work for hire, you are not an employee.

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Speaker 2: You may be an editor who is an employee who

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Speaker 2: perhaps writes a story, but in general you are hired

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Speaker 2: work hire. You are not an employee. You don't get benefits,

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Speaker 2: you don't really have any employment rights. You are just

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Speaker 2: hired for that one thing. And that is very much

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Speaker 2: in the same scope as what the VFX space is

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Speaker 2: struggling with. I'm very interested to see where this goes,

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Speaker 2: because a lot of times all you need is the

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Speaker 2: one place to do it, and that's something they talk about.

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Speaker 3: Here Break the Seal.

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Speaker 2: You know, we had talked about Image comics unionizing, right

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Speaker 2: and how the inside the company workers had tried to

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Speaker 2: start a union that was not voluntarily recognized. Very ironic.

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Speaker 2: But the takeaway from this article that some people have

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Speaker 2: in the piece is kind of that hopefully one house

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Speaker 2: will unionize, one space, one company, the people within it

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Speaker 2: will unionize, and then from there that can be the

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Speaker 2: start of a bigger union, which I think is what

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Speaker 2: everyone hopes for for comics too. Yeah, this was just

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Speaker 2: such a great reason and I'm very interested. The wildest

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Speaker 2: thing is like if there was a strike and obviously

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Speaker 2: it'll be like a wildcat strike because there's not a union.

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Speaker 2: But like if there was a strike, I mean movies

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Speaker 2: would that would just the industry would come to a standstill.

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Speaker 1: I Mean the issue is, as you noted, is the

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Speaker 1: kind of diffuse nature of the VFX industry. Various houses,

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Speaker 1: they're all around the world. How do you get them

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Speaker 1: to strike as one because what would happen? You know,

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Speaker 1: the threat is significantly lessened when a producer, a platform

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Speaker 1: whoever can just say, Okay, well you're not going to

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Speaker 1: do it, I'm going to go over to this other place.

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Speaker 1: And so that's why these issues are very important, and

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Speaker 1: it's also an outgrowth. I see this as very related

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Speaker 1: to the issue of crunch in the video game space. Yes,

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Speaker 1: crunch being the kind of like culturally accepted portion of

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Speaker 1: the production schedule of a video game during which it

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Speaker 1: is expected that employees essentially live at the fucking office

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Speaker 1: and kill themselves to make this game go gold. Now,

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Speaker 1: significant difference being oftentimes with crunch and with video game production,

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Speaker 1: you do have employees all in the same place, and

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Speaker 1: there is I think, contra the Hollywood and television, there

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Speaker 1: is from the leadership in video games a keen understanding

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Speaker 1: of the work and the type of work that goes

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Speaker 1: into creating the game.

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Speaker 2: So and I will also say that there was a

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Speaker 2: huge and very widespread movement by the Game Workers Union

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Speaker 2: to start union that really did like spark off some

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Speaker 2: change there. So that's kind of what I feel like

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Speaker 2: could happen here hopefully.

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Speaker 1: I think in general, just this conversation, the fact that

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Speaker 1: it's happening out in public, the fact that VFX workers

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Speaker 1: are having their voices heard about the issues that impact them,

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Speaker 1: it's really positive. And if the end result of this is,

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Speaker 1: you know, a wing of IATZI for VFX workers or

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Speaker 1: the like, then I think that we've made a big step. Listen,

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Speaker 1: the rest of Hollywood is extremely unionized, the directors, the producers,

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Speaker 1: the writers. I'm a member of the writers guilds. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's how I get my other churance. You know, It's

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Speaker 1: like you see the benefits of it, and it just

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Speaker 1: makes sense to me that this extremely integral piece of

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Speaker 1: the machinery should also you knowze just as the rest

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Speaker 1: of them have.

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Speaker 2: I totally agree. And it seems shocking, like it says

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Speaker 2: in this article multiple times, like you'll speak to like

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Speaker 2: a camera operator and some and you'll tell them you're

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Speaker 2: not unionized, and they're like, what the fuck, Like, how

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Speaker 2: are you not unionized?

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Speaker 3: What the fuck? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that I have to say. And look,

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Speaker 2: people listen to the podcast. They know what we talk about,

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Speaker 2: they know what we read. I have a copy of

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Speaker 2: Uncanny X Men one eighty five behind me, you know,

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Speaker 2: Storm without her Powers. But I think there is a

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Speaker 2: direct line here between the way that Marvel and y C.

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Speaker 2: But let's talk about Marvel because that's what we're talking

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Speaker 2: about have always treated creators and the rights of the

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Speaker 2: artists who have made this work for them. Direct line

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Speaker 2: from that to how little they value the creators who

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Speaker 2: are now making these movies for them. And I hope

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Speaker 2: that with the current lawsuits with the heirs of some

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Speaker 2: of the biggest superhero characters, including like the heirs of

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Speaker 2: Steve Ditko for Spider Man, and the upcoming potential reversion

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Speaker 2: of rights that that lawsuit could have alongside this potential

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Speaker 2: VFX union, I would love to see a shift and

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Speaker 2: a change in that corporate culture that could finally maybe

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Speaker 2: start to put the rights and the proper capital and

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Speaker 2: ownership and also just compensation back in the hands of

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Speaker 2: the people who make these stories possible, whether it's comic

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Speaker 2: book creators or VFX artists, who nowadays are equally important

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Speaker 2: to those stories.

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Speaker 1: I actually do see them as significantly different issues. The

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Speaker 1: work for hire creators who created Batman, Superman, the X Men, etc.

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Speaker 1: Not getting their do I think is a very specific

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Speaker 1: and sad issue that has been addressed in dribs and drabs.

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Speaker 1: You know, Marvel and DC both give royalties now, et cetera,

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Speaker 1: Like there is a bonus paid when a created character

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Speaker 1: goes into a.

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Speaker 2: Movie sometimes sometimes let's say, very minimal.

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Speaker 1: The VFX workers, while it is a creative job, are

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Speaker 1: to me more like the grips and the lighting people

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Speaker 1: in that they're doing a mechanical thing, not just like

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Speaker 1: following a flight of fancy to be like, oh, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to make this character's costume exactly the way that

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Speaker 1: I want, Like they're following a set order of things

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Speaker 1: that have kind of passed down from the creators. At

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Speaker 1: the same time, they are integral to the process. And

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Speaker 1: I think that part of we're going to talk about

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Speaker 1: the AI art class action lawsuit right after this. I

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Speaker 1: think that broadly there is something that is not talked

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Speaker 1: about enough when it comes to these kind of like

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Speaker 1: tech based worker issues, and it affects the consumers as well.

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Speaker 1: And it's that things change so quickly in tech. The

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Speaker 1: way that we make movies now, with the volume and

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Speaker 1: et cetera, it's completely different, even though like your computer

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Speaker 1: graphics have been around for thirty plus years is completely

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Speaker 1: different than the we're making movies ten years ago, twenty

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Speaker 1: years ago, et cetera. Yeah, and so there is I

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Speaker 1: think often an ease of disconnect between the older generation

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Speaker 1: of producer, creator, whoever that has been working in the

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Speaker 1: space and the younger people, more tech savvy people who

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Speaker 1: are coming up. It's just the worlds are so different

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Speaker 1: that they operate in that it's very easy and almost

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Speaker 1: financially incentivized.

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Speaker 3: To just like not really know what they do. And

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Speaker 3: that actually causes a.

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Speaker 2: Big problem that That's one of the things that comes

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Speaker 2: up time and time again in this conversation is if

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Speaker 2: you have a director or a producer who doesn't really

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Speaker 2: understand the nature of the work, yes, then it's easy

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Speaker 2: for them to come to you three weeks before the

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Speaker 2: movie's meant to be done and say, hey, I need

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Speaker 2: you to redo that like completely, and I don't really

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Speaker 2: have a visualization for it. This just needs to happen.

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Speaker 2: It's very like you said that disconnect makes it easy

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Speaker 2: to push that work onto people without necessarily thinking about

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Speaker 2: how much time or if it takes. And I also

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Speaker 2: think that, like you said, that there's a lack of

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Speaker 2: knowledge and education, maybe purposefully, but about how those changes

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Speaker 2: are happening. I was incredibly shocked to find out that

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Speaker 2: Victoria Alonso, who's done so much brilliant work at Marvel,

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Speaker 2: I was very shocked to find out that she's the

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Speaker 2: head of post production space in that company. That is

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Speaker 2: a job that I would assume you would have somebody

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Speaker 2: who worked in post production doing so they could be

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Speaker 2: that person between the two. You can be that middleman

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Speaker 2: who make sure that the people know, the directors know

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Speaker 2: what is needed, and the VFX people know what is needed.

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Speaker 2: So I think there's that disconnect is a huge problem,

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Speaker 2: and hopefully a union would be able to at least

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Speaker 2: bridge that a little bit.

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Speaker 1: I mean, use the leverage and the weight that they have,

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Speaker 1: hopefully for good, in order to have the workers' issues heard,

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Speaker 1: and certainly not create a thing where people are working

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Speaker 1: around the clock in order to make a movie or

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Speaker 1: TV show happen. One of the people I work with,

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Speaker 1: Peter Murrietta, who created Which There's a Waverley Place, He

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Speaker 1: always says there's no such thing as a television emergency.

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Speaker 1: I would say that the same thing is true for movies.

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Speaker 1: While people you know, it's good to work hard, and

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Speaker 1: sometimes you need to put in a twelve hour day,

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Speaker 1: we get it, but.

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Speaker 2: They say, I'm regular eighteen nowadays.

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Speaker 1: But there should be no situation in which people are like,

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Speaker 1: are just grilling themselves in order to make a fucking

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Speaker 1: Avengers movie come out.

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Speaker 3: I love Avengers movies, but like, come on, Okay.

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Speaker 1: The AI class action lawsuit, We've been talking about it.

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Speaker 1: The Internet has been talking about the leaps and bounds

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Speaker 1: by which creative AI, whether it's Chat, GBT and the

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Speaker 1: written word, or the various AI art engines Stability, AI,

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Speaker 1: Stable Diffusion, etc. Have been kind of reshaping the creative space,

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Speaker 1: and now a selection of artists have filed the class

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Speaker 1: action suit against the AI Company's mid Journey, who makes

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Speaker 1: Stable Diffusion, as well as DV and Art, who they

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Speaker 1: allege allowed these AI engines to kind of like scrape

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Speaker 1: their platform of art without informing the artists who post

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Speaker 1: there have filed a class action lawsuit. From a Polygon

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Speaker 1: article from January seventeenth, written by Nicole Clark, quote, the

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Speaker 1: pseudoledges that these companies violated the rights of millions of

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Speaker 1: artists by using billions of Internet images to train its

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Speaker 1: AI art tool without the consent of artists, without compensating

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Speaker 1: any of those artists. These companies benefit commercially and profit

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Speaker 1: richly from the use of copyright images, the pseudo ledges quote.

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Speaker 1: The harm to artists is not hypothetical, the suit says,

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Speaker 1: noting that the works created by Generative AI art are

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Speaker 1: quote already sold on the Internet, siphoning commissions from the

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Speaker 1: art artists themselves. We talked about this briefly. I've been

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Speaker 1: surprised that there haven't been more class action suits, but

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Speaker 1: I think this piece takes that on, saying that it's

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Speaker 1: most of the experts, while kind of split on whether

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Speaker 1: what Stability or mid Journey are doing are actually illegal,

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Speaker 1: do agree that depending on how this class action.

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Speaker 3: Suit goes, there will surely surely be others.

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Speaker 2: And the good thing about class action lawsuits anyone can

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Speaker 2: just jump on once it's out there, you know. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and this is a big deal because there's actually like,

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Speaker 2: these are like high profile people. I'd actually read a

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Speaker 2: really great article written by Sarah Anderson, who makes the

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Speaker 2: webcomics Sarah Scribbles, which if you don't immediately know it

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Speaker 2: by name, you will immediately recognize it if you see it,

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Speaker 2: and she'd written about how people had taken what were

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Speaker 2: essentially like her diary comics and put them into this

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Speaker 2: AI and were already replicating them. And so these are

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Speaker 2: quite big name people. One of the other names on

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Speaker 2: this is like an illustrator has done stuff for Marvel,

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Speaker 2: like the film studios and for Wizards of the Coast,

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Speaker 2: So I think that helps as well, having like three

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Speaker 2: high profile people who are willing to put their name

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Speaker 2: to it. And the filing is wild. They found forty

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Speaker 2: pages of alleged copyright infringements and stuff and different ways

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Speaker 2: that the AI was infringing on people's rights. So I'm

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Speaker 2: very interested to see where this goes. I think this

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Speaker 2: is good. I think that, as a lot of people

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Speaker 2: have pointed out, this could be the moment when it

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Speaker 2: goes from like a Napster type thing to a Spotify.

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Speaker 2: You know, this could be that turning point where people

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Speaker 2: find a way of doing it. I hope it ends

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Speaker 2: up being more financially viable for artists than spotifyers. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but yeah, I think this is probably an interesting thing

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Speaker 2: that we should definitely be keeping our eyes on. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think that, you know, who knows. There is some

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Speaker 1: interesting conversation in a Verge piece written by James Vincent

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Speaker 1: about this that kind of tries to dissect issues regarding

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Speaker 1: fear use of this art and whether training in AI

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Speaker 1: is fair use versus whether using that training to create

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Speaker 1: content is fair use. I think there's that's really going

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Speaker 1: to be where the rubber meets the road, zooming out,

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Speaker 1: because who knows how that's going to go. I think

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Speaker 1: one of my concerns with this is that AI art

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Speaker 1: and the way it's trained AI art and the text

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Speaker 1: generation AIS, the way they're trained, it seems to bring

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Speaker 1: us back to like an earlier form of wealth creation

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Speaker 1: that was based on I get richer by taking your shit.

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Speaker 3: You can.

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Speaker 1: Whatever criticisms we all have of capitalism and neoliberalism and

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Speaker 1: the way it exploits the workers.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like we had autistic feudalism. It's like I'm

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Speaker 2: taking your shit post the mid nineteenth century. The basic

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Speaker 2: thesis is like, okay, like you give us your time

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Speaker 2: by working in the factory, and you make a little

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Speaker 2: bit more money so that you can buy some conveniences

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Speaker 2: that make your life easier.

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Speaker 3: Meanwhile, the rich get richer. Okay.

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Speaker 1: The AI era is you have done all this really

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Speaker 1: really hard work for decades and we're just gonna take it,

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Speaker 1: and we're gonna fucking take it, and that's how we're

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Speaker 1: gonna build the value of our company.

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Speaker 3: And that is really troubling.

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Speaker 2: I think you're absolutely right. I think that's the most

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Speaker 2: worrying thing. And I also think that's something that a

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Speaker 2: lot of people seem to have missed in these conversations,

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Speaker 2: is like, yeah, mid Journey is scraping from billions of

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Speaker 2: images or millions of images, whatever they say, and that

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Speaker 2: you can make the argument that that makes it harder

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Speaker 2: to compensate people or to give people credit. Right, But

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Speaker 2: I've seen multiple examples of people who are using these

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Speaker 2: generators or generators that use this r and just feeding

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Speaker 2: one person's art in feeding fifty images of that person's

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Speaker 2: are and then just plagiarizing that pep of persons are

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Speaker 2: But saying they created it, And yeah, so I think

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Speaker 2: you're spot on, and I think there's numerous different issues

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Speaker 2: with this, one of which is that it devalues the

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Speaker 2: work of artists and not just like it's really weird

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Speaker 2: how all this stuff is kind of tied in because

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Speaker 2: something people will be like, well, you know that VFX

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Speaker 2: artist who is earning seventeen dollars an hour, Well, that's

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Speaker 2: just they're doing their job and that's what the job's

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Speaker 2: valued at. But no, because when you do a job,

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Speaker 2: you're really being paid for all the work that went

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Speaker 2: into it, or the way, the time that you have

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Speaker 2: to spend to do it, or the rigamarole that it

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Speaker 2: takes on your body. Like there's all these different things.

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Speaker 2: And as an artist, when you do a commission, when

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Speaker 2: you pay an artist five hundred dollars to commission you

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Speaker 2: some beautiful portrait, you're really paying for not just the

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Speaker 2: time that they spend to draw it, but all of

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Speaker 2: the studying that they did or the practice all of that.

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Speaker 2: And while some people argue that AIAR democratizes art because

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Speaker 2: then you know, anyone can just make a picture by

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Speaker 2: writing a word on the internet, that's not really that simple.

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Speaker 2: That's like a really nice idealistic viewpoint. And I love

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Speaker 2: the idea of accessibility, but guess what, Art's already accessible.

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Speaker 2: You just need a pencil, pencil and a piece of paper.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 1: I said this the previous time we talked about this,

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Speaker 1: but it's essentially the way it's being used now. It

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Speaker 1: is a wealth transfer from the working artists who do storyboards,

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Speaker 1: who do the art for book covers, who do the

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Speaker 1: art for album covers. We've already seen that happening and

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Speaker 1: transferring those monies that those artists would have earned, and

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Speaker 1: taking it at scale and transferring it to the value

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Speaker 1: of these AI companies because of the work that they

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Speaker 1: can make easier for the people who are producing various

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Speaker 1: kinds of products.

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Speaker 3: And I think that that.

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Speaker 1: Is, you know, we need to grapple with the question

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Speaker 1: of whether that's actually something we want to do. And

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Speaker 1: hopefully this lawsuit will open the floodgates and we'll see

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Speaker 1: some more because I think, you know, just some of

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Speaker 1: the ways that these various companies have kind of like

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Speaker 1: built their corporate structure, it's very clear that they want

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Speaker 1: to insulate themselves from lawsuits. The way that they've targeted

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Speaker 1: where to scrape art very clearly shows that they're targeting

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Speaker 1: artists who don't have the resources.

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Speaker 2: They're not scraping Mickey Mouse. They're scraping Yeah, No, we're

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Speaker 2: not going to Disney dot com.

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Speaker 1: And like, you know, like they're they're very clearly avoiding

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Speaker 1: you know, big land mines, and that to me lets

436
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:18,960
Speaker 1: you know that they kind of understand that what they're

437
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:22,439
Speaker 1: doing is going to be objectionable to a great many people.

438
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:27,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're they're creating like a gray legal area where

439
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 2: this was actually in that Verge piece, you know, the

440
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:32,159
Speaker 2: James Vincent piece that you mentioned that was written in

441
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:36,080
Speaker 2: November last year, and they actually say that part of

442
00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:38,600
Speaker 2: the reason why they think there hasn't been any lawsuits

443
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 2: is because it's so expensive. Yeah, and that's what this

444
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,879
Speaker 2: class action lawsuit could potentially answer. And that's kind of

445
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:47,680
Speaker 2: why it's a bit of an out there. People expected

446
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:50,080
Speaker 2: it to be a corporation or or someone with a

447
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 2: lot of money who would be able to bring that

448
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 2: first lawsuit. But this allows multiple people to be a

449
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,320
Speaker 2: part of it. And yet I'll be very interested that

450
00:23:57,400 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 2: law firm is very well thought of in these cases,

451
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,520
Speaker 2: and I saw them one of the first people I

452
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:04,919
Speaker 2: saw who posted it said the lawsuits claimed back like

453
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 2: four billion for people in similar class actions, So I'll

454
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,920
Speaker 2: be very interested to see where it goes. It's such

455
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,880
Speaker 2: a complex topic. But like you said, even between now

456
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 2: and the last time we talked about it, yeah, Tor

457
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:19,880
Speaker 2: had to do an apology the publisher because they had

458
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,240
Speaker 2: bought a cover art that they thought was from a

459
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 2: stock artist on a website and it turned out it

460
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 2: was generated by AI. But they'd already made the books

461
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:28,879
Speaker 2: and they couldn't afford to reprint them. So this is

462
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,920
Speaker 2: already taking money from artists pockets, even in a most

463
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,440
Speaker 2: abstract way, even if we're not talking about someone directly plagiarizing.

464
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:40,199
Speaker 2: This is already, like their lawsuit claims, taking money out

465
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:41,760
Speaker 2: of the pockets of artists, and like you said, it's

466
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 2: a wealth transfer. I think that's a really great way

467
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 2: to put it, and it's not the way that it's

468
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 2: supposed to be. And I hope this lawsuit can open,

469
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 2: like you said, open the floodgates, open the doors on

470
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 2: a bigger conversation about the morals of this stuff.

471
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:55,160
Speaker 1: Up next, we're gonna be catching up on the first

472
00:24:55,160 --> 00:25:13,159
Speaker 1: four episodes of The Bad Batch Disney Plus, we're stepping

473
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 1: out of the airlock to join forces with Clone Force

474
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 1: ninety nine aka the Bad Batch, those genetic mutants that

475
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:21,840
Speaker 1: we all love so much, for more action and thrills

476
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:25,159
Speaker 1: in season two. Note for listeners, unlike the Last of Us,

477
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 1: we won't be covering The Bad Batch week to week,

478
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 1: but we'll be dropping in mostly on our second episode

479
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,160
Speaker 1: of the week, our Friday episode, The Bad Batch, created

480
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 1: by Dave Filoni, of course starring d Bradley Baker as

481
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 1: the Bad Patch.

482
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 3: All of them, that's right, all of them.

483
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 1: Great booking by d Bradley Baker, Hunter record Tech, Crosshair,

484
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 1: and of course Echo Michelle angas Omega.

485
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 3: That must be so crazy to do all these voices.

486
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 2: I know, especially now it's like a two season long show.

487
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 2: This is no longer like a four episode off, you know,

488
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 2: as it was supposed to be.

489
00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 1: I gotta say Season two of The Bad Batch opens really,

490
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 1: really strong. Yeah, but we're going to focus on the

491
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 1: last two episodes, starting with episode three, The Solitary Clone,

492
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,199
Speaker 1: and then episode four Faster, which is really just an

493
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,640
Speaker 1: action episode, but a really great action episode, shouts so tech,

494
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 1: good driving. Starting with episode three, the solitary Clone. We

495
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,399
Speaker 1: see an Imperial shuttle arrive on Desex, which is a

496
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 1: farming world, and it's carrying the Imperial Governor of the planet,

497
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 1: plus a squadron of Clone troopers in their new early

498
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:30,200
Speaker 1: storm trooper armor. They are met by Tawny Ames, who

499
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 1: is the native governor of this planet. The Imperial Governor Grotten,

500
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 1: is here to bring Desex, which was a separatist world

501
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 1: a separatist hold out, into the Empire, and Ames is like, no,

502
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 1: we fought on the side of the separatists against the Republic.

503
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 1: We want to be independent. We fought for that independence,

504
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,120
Speaker 1: we earned it. And there's a reason we haven't joined

505
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:55,159
Speaker 1: the Empire, and that's because we don't fucking want to.

506
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,160
Speaker 1: And then she calls out her army of battle Droids,

507
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:02,399
Speaker 1: who have they ever won a battle anyway? She calls

508
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 1: on her Army of battle Droyd. She's feeling Optimis's feeling

509
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 1: good about it, and the battle Droids eject the Imperials

510
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,920
Speaker 1: from the planet with a message that's essentially like listen,

511
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 1: don't come back, and don't try it on Corussant. Admiral

512
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 1: Rampart Summon's cross hair from the mess hall cross Hair.

513
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,680
Speaker 1: There's a really nice detailing hero where we see how

514
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 1: different cross Hair is from the rest of the Imperial clones.

515
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 1: First of all, he wears the black armor. Second of all,

516
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 1: nobody wants to eat with him.

517
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was gonna say, these mess whole scenes. For

518
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 2: so long, installars animation have been this space of like

519
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:38,160
Speaker 2: camaraderie where we get to see the way the clones interact.

520
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 2: So it's really really stark and striking that we see

521
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 2: cross here here and alone, no brothers, no clones, this

522
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 2: is just him. And yeah, it's it's really it's really

523
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 2: good smart storytelling.

524
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,880
Speaker 1: So Rampart calls cross Hair to his office and he says, listen,

525
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 1: I'm sending you to Desex. Your mission is by herker

526
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,159
Speaker 1: by Crook. You bring down Tawny Ames, the governor or,

527
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 1: so whither we can replace her with, you know, our governor,

528
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 1: Governor Grotten. Crosshair then goes to meet our old friend,

529
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,399
Speaker 1: Commander Cody, and what a what a what a delight,

530
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 1: what a delight to see our good friend Commander Cody.

531
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 1: It's maybe not so great that he's still working for

532
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,640
Speaker 1: the bad guys, although it's very clear that he feels

533
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:19,920
Speaker 1: a type of way about it.

534
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 2: M hmm, yeah, and this is really cool. I mean

535
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 2: I wasn't expecting this, and maybe I missed it in

536
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,400
Speaker 2: the trailers, but this is like our first canon Commander

537
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 2: Cody appearance since like Revenge of the Six, Like, this

538
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 2: is what this episode does so well and what the

539
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 2: show does so well. But like you say, I was like, ah,

540
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 2: still there, but then I was very interested by this

541
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 2: choice of, like you said, to use him as kind

542
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 2: of this in to where the Clones are when it

543
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 2: comes to Order sixty six.

544
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 1: That is such an interesting part of this conversation, and

545
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 1: I think kind of like this series is very Clone

546
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 1: War's esque, obviously because of the subject matter and the

547
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 1: period that we're working in, but also in the sense

548
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 1: that you can feel a kind of like overarching thematic

549
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 1: structure for a season and then we'll drop in and

550
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 1: out of that with different bottle episodes, like faster like

551
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 1: different things, the same way the Clone Wars would kind

552
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:14,719
Speaker 1: of like move in crab like fashion towards in an

553
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 1: arc from the beginning of a season towards the end

554
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 1: of a season, but also would drop out and have

555
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 1: like you know, bottle episodes for jar Jar Binks or whatever.

556
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 3: I think.

557
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 1: For me, the most interesting part of Bad Batch is

558
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 1: this idea of one where do the Clones find themselves?

559
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 1: What place do they have both the bad Batch, you know,

560
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 1: on their own and then the Imperial Clones what place

561
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 1: do they have in the Empire. They're about to be

562
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 1: replaced by stormtroopers though they don't know it. And on

563
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 1: top of that, how do they feel about Order sixty six?

564
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 1: How do they actually feel about it? And delving into

565
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 1: that is really really fascinating. So Crosshair meats Commander Cody.

566
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 1: Cody says, oh, yeah, the Bad Patch not surprised at

567
00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 1: all that you guys went rogue. In fact, like your

568
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 1: whole purpose was kind of like go rogue. And he

569
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 1: notes that clones have been discussing in small groups amongst

570
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 1: themselves Order sixty six. What it meant, whether it's right,

571
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 1: were the Jedi really traders to the Republic? Unclear? Crosshair, however,

572
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 1: and it remains to be seen how deep this belief goes.

573
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 3: But he is a believer. He is a true fucking believer.

574
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 2: In this moment, he's looking at Kamanda Cody like Kamanda

575
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 2: Cody is the threat. He's like, you don't understand because

576
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 2: the secret of cross Has mission is like they're going

577
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 2: on a diplomatic mission. But we know from Rampot that

578
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 2: really he's sent cross Have for a reason.

579
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 1: And I think that's another thing that's so interesting about

580
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 1: this show is the way it takes Star Wars themes

581
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 1: and shoots them through the lens of these clones. The

582
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 1: main theme being here, how far to the dark side

583
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 1: can you go before being pulled back before it's too late?

584
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 1: And I think down to his voice and everything, the

585
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 1: way he acts like you can't help that every time

586
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 1: he's on the screen. Wonder what would it take for

587
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 1: Crosshair to go, Okay, this is too much. Now, it's

588
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 1: too much. Back on Desex, Tawny Ames knows the Imperial

589
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 1: diplomats are not there to negotiate.

590
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 3: She understands, she.

591
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 1: Gets the empire. Maybe you know, one of the earliest

592
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 1: ones to kind of see the truth about what the

593
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 1: empire is. She says that, and this is a really

594
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 1: cool wrinkle that Douku, who was really an idealist, Yeah

595
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 1: he was if you look at his history, was a

596
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 1: real idealist.

597
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 3: That Douku at some.

598
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 1: Point lost faith and understood that the Empire would be

599
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 1: the end result of what was happening between the separatists

600
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 1: and the Republic and the kind of machinations that Emperor

601
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 1: Palpatine was putting in place, she sends for droids and

602
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 1: tanks against the imperial ship.

603
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 3: It crashes, but of.

604
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 1: Course Cody and Crosshair are not so easily killed, and

605
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 1: both of them survive, along with a handful of clones.

606
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 1: We get a really cool action scene where cross Hair

607
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 1: snipes an entire fucking tank through the barrel, and then

608
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 1: they work together to fight their way into Ames's fortress.

609
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 1: Crosshair and Cody just kind of like fight their way

610
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 1: to a top of a tower where Ames is protected

611
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 1: by droids and she's holding Governor Gratten hostage there. Ames

612
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 1: then insists that hey, Desex is independent again, like we've

613
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 1: been for many years. We're fighting a defensive campaign against

614
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 1: the Empire. We're not attacking the Empire. You're attacking us.

615
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 1: Uh So, like what the fuck? Cody then delivers the

616
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 1: company line about the Empire. Hey, the Empire is just

617
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 1: here to bring order after the chaos of you know,

618
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 1: the clone wars. We're here to just bring peace unity.

619
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 1: Ames is like, okay, Well, Desex tried years ago to

620
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 1: negotiate a peace deal with the Empire, but the Empire

621
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 1: was not interested, not even a little bit. They want everything,

622
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 1: they don't want a negotiated piece. Cody is trying to

623
00:32:56,680 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 1: talk Ames down. He vaguely threatens her, saying that like, hey,

624
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 1: if you release Gratten, you should do it for the

625
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 1: good of your people, which is a very imperial kind

626
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 1: of like, hey, what if we just kill everybody?

627
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 3: What about that?

628
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:15,719
Speaker 1: So she does, and then Governor Gratton immediately is like, hey,

629
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 1: Commander Cody kill Tony Eames. Commander Cody's a good guy,

630
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 1: and so he hesitates, But then cross Hair just fucking

631
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 1: does it.

632
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 2: And this is where I say to you, do you

633
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 2: think that's the No, he's gone too far? Has I

634
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 2: think he's gone too far at that point? What do

635
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 2: you think it's Dooku killing Yaddle?

636
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's mace Wind?

637
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 2: Do you know it's those moments?

638
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 1: Yes, I mean it's a cold blooded murder. Yeah, I

639
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 1: think it's an order. But like, I think he's gone

640
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 1: too Like do you think that cross Hair can come

641
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 1: back from this?

642
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 2: I think the nature of this story, and the story

643
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 2: of the Bad Batch in particular, is to explore the

644
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 2: concept that that kind of nature of us is natural concept,

645
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 2: but also the idea that even if you have done

646
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 2: terrible things under the guise of following orders, you can

647
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 2: become a better person and make right. I do think

648
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 2: that in what is essentially a child's TV show, if

649
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:15,760
Speaker 2: you think about the way this is probably marketed within Disney.

650
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 2: As much as I think this is brilliant adult storytelling,

651
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 2: I do think that once you murder someone in cold blood,

652
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 2: you probably you're probably not gonna have like a full

653
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 2: redemption arc like this is like a gangster style, like

654
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 2: a mafia hit, like he just he does it. I

655
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:34,399
Speaker 2: wanted more cross Hair, and I wanted to see where

656
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:36,840
Speaker 2: he was at. I find the story very interesting. I

657
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 2: think we'll be in a position where Crosshair will have

658
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 2: the chance to die to do something that's right.

659
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 3: I think that's correct.

660
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 2: I think that sadly is the only redemption that is

661
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:51,319
Speaker 2: left for him at this point. I was so interested

662
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 2: by how dark they went with this episode, very very dark.

663
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,400
Speaker 2: The first two episodes are really great, and they and

664
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:03,279
Speaker 2: they set them in these beautiful exotic, tropical tropical and

665
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:05,719
Speaker 2: there's a lightness to it even when you're dealing with

666
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:10,080
Speaker 2: those big questions yeah, and those same big questions that

667
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 2: have always made in my opinion, that animated shows so good,

668
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 2: which is that how do other people exist in this

669
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:19,840
Speaker 2: huge space that aren't Skywalkers? What happens if you're created

670
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,319
Speaker 2: to be a killer? Like, how do you break out

671
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:23,719
Speaker 2: of that? What do you mean? How do you what

672
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:25,800
Speaker 2: does it mean to have agency? There's a lot of

673
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 2: episodes in Clone Wars, I think, and Rebels as well,

674
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 2: where people go, oh, You've got to watch this episode,

675
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:32,839
Speaker 2: and I feel like this is going to be one

676
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 2: of those episodes. It appears to be an action episode

677
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,800
Speaker 2: on the surface, but it really has this kind of

678
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 2: deeper depth in what it means for crosshairs, this kind

679
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 2: of uncrossable line, no pun intended. But also it has

680
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 2: like lots of Easter eggs. There's like, you know, the

681
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:52,400
Speaker 2: TK Troopers, they look kind of like round Corey's original designs.

682
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:55,879
Speaker 2: You have that reference that you mentioned about Aimes talking

683
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:57,800
Speaker 2: about going to the Republic, and that was kind of

684
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 2: direct reference to an episode of Clone Wars. So it's

685
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 2: this really great mix of that kind of deep emotional

686
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:06,400
Speaker 2: storytelling that Filoni does, but with that fun kind of

687
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 2: Star Wars fan service that makes this show so exciting.

688
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,319
Speaker 3: You mentioned the darkness. Here is some dark shit.

689
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 1: What do you do with Tawny Ames, the late Governor

690
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:20,360
Speaker 1: of Desk's body grotten is like, put her body in

691
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:22,279
Speaker 1: the square. Let it be a warning to the rest.

692
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:25,959
Speaker 1: They let that moment, I think smartly play on Cody's face,

693
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 1: and you really see Cody at this moment doubt and

694
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 1: really not even doubt, but like know that he's at

695
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 1: that point. You know you're on the wrong side and

696
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 1: you just murdered somebody who surrendered me.

697
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 2: I'll be the bad guys. Moment, the answer is yes,

698
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 2: that is the moment.

699
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 1: Cody then has a private moment with Cross here and

700
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 1: asks do you think we're doing the right thing, which

701
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:48,920
Speaker 1: is a weird question to ask someone who just murdered

702
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 1: someone in cold blood, like, but you know, asks And

703
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 1: there's some discussion about the Battle droids and what they

704
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 1: do and how their role is very similar and that

705
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,759
Speaker 1: they go out and they fight the war that they

706
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:04,960
Speaker 1: are tasked with fighting just following orders, but saying that

707
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:08,399
Speaker 1: in a different way, and then Cody very wisely says, here, Okay,

708
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:12,839
Speaker 1: here's the difference. The droids don't have any free will.

709
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:15,759
Speaker 1: They do what they're program to do. They fight who

710
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 1: they're programmed to fight, where their program to fight it.

711
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 1: We can make the choice about whether or not, say,

712
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:27,360
Speaker 1: murdering a gaggle of young wings is right, you know,

713
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 1: depending on the justification. We can weigh those things and

714
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:33,239
Speaker 1: make our own decision and should should not we do that.

715
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 1: Crosshair looks at Cody with very clear suspicion. I mean,

716
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:40,719
Speaker 1: like the vibe I got from Crosshair was like, I'm

717
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 1: gonna have to kill you at someone.

718
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:43,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, It's which I think is very interesting because I

719
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:45,880
Speaker 2: feel like the vison Cody asked him that is, I

720
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:49,480
Speaker 2: almost feel like he was trying to like scope it out. Yeah,

721
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 2: Like he was like, does he realize what he's done

722
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 2: is wrong? Like is this someone who just had the

723
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 2: same realization that I did? Is this is an ally

724
00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 2: in maybe questioning? But he learns that it's actually the opposite.

725
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 2: For cross had that for whatever reason, he is fully

726
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 2: committed to this imperial mission and he will do the worst,

727
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 2: most terrific things if he thinks that they are necessary.

728
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 1: There's also something really fascinating about the idea of here

729
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:19,399
Speaker 1: are all these clones. They have their identity at least

730
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:24,319
Speaker 1: initially was their numbers, you know, like very small differences

731
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 1: in the way that they are getting their identity that's

732
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:29,880
Speaker 1: been created for them. But we see here through the

733
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:31,800
Speaker 1: course of this story, and this is really one of

734
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 1: the deepest like questions of the Bad Batch in general,

735
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 1: is even if you are a complete genetic recreation of

736
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 1: another person, you can have a difference of opinion with

737
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,399
Speaker 1: that person. Yeah, and that's really interesting here. I also

738
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:51,360
Speaker 1: felt like maybe Cody is kind of like trying to

739
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:57,320
Speaker 1: get an idea of where Clone Force ninety nine the

740
00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 1: rest of them are landed to use cross Hair as

741
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 1: kind of a lens to kind of see where they

742
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 1: might be in that very clonesy way of like trying

743
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:08,799
Speaker 1: to find out. Okay, like, well, what are the rest

744
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 1: of your batch think about this? Later on cross Hairs

745
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 1: laying his bunk, he's lost in thought. He goes to

746
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 1: mess again again in these wonderful moments that kind of

747
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 1: like heighten the isolation of cross Hair. Rampart calls him again.

748
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:25,400
Speaker 1: Rampart has another mission for him. Why not Cody, He asks, well,

749
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:26,919
Speaker 1: Commander Cody has gone a wall.

750
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 2: Dun dun du dun dun. I love this because I

751
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:34,840
Speaker 2: actually think it's a huge, well done bait and switch because,

752
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 2: like you think, this is the start of understanding where

753
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:41,800
Speaker 2: Crosshairs Journey is going to go, and it is. But

754
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 2: I think the real big returning character here is Commander Cody,

755
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:50,359
Speaker 2: and I think that this hints that we will see

756
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 2: Commander Cody on a redemptive.

757
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 3: Arc of his own. I think so too.

758
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 2: That will be far more heroic and easy to swallow

759
00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 2: than trying to do that for who has committed this

760
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:04,439
Speaker 2: horrific wrong right in public view?

761
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:06,400
Speaker 3: X ray Vision will be back.

762
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 2: And we're back.

763
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 1: All right, let's talk about episode four Faster, which is

764
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:22,920
Speaker 1: really just a fun Clones War era bottle episode. Echo

765
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:26,279
Speaker 1: and Hunter are off doing a thing. They're not available,

766
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:29,920
Speaker 1: so our good friend the gangster Sid brings in the

767
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 1: rest Omega, Recker and tech as like her bodyguards to

768
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 1: watch her back because she's got to do some gambling

769
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:43,880
Speaker 1: on this version of pod racing, which I mean, who

770
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 1: doesn't fucking love pod racing?

771
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 2: You know? Yeah, pod racing is so fun.

772
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:52,320
Speaker 1: We get to meet her driver, Teo, who is a

773
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 1: kind of very very flashy and arrogant droid voiced by

774
00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 1: Ben Schwartz, who got to double dip in the Star

775
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 1: Wars universe, not only did Ben get to be BB eight,

776
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:03,759
Speaker 1: but now gets to be Tao.

777
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:06,239
Speaker 2: I know, I love this just like you'll go to uh,

778
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:07,879
Speaker 2: this is the go to droid man.

779
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 1: Now there are various wrinkles, and Tao cannot continue because

780
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:14,359
Speaker 1: of a crash. So guess what Our good friend Tech

781
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:20,520
Speaker 1: needs to pilot the craft, and Tech uses his you know,

782
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:26,400
Speaker 1: strategic mindset and the information about the track delivered to

783
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:30,840
Speaker 1: him Biomega to kind of like master the track. It

784
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 1: culminates in a wonderful like Luke, your targeting systems turned off?

785
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:35,799
Speaker 3: Is there anything wrong?

786
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:41,800
Speaker 1: Where he takes all the energy from like his weapons

787
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 1: and puts it like the in the rest of the

788
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:45,799
Speaker 1: ship and then like makes a jump that nobody thinks

789
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 1: he can make, and then he wins, and Sid is

790
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 1: absolutely relieved and is wondering, you know, God, how long

791
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 1: can I keep escaping like this with the with the

792
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 1: use of these clones. And we also get a nice

793
00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:01,360
Speaker 1: kind of like gesture at whether d is trying to

794
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:02,319
Speaker 1: be a better person.

795
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 2: Yes, it seems like a mega kind of making this

796
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 2: deal so that Sid can be safe. Yeah, that kind

797
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:12,879
Speaker 2: of gives Sid the little nudge to kind of be like, oh,

798
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 2: maybe I need to kind of be There's a lot

799
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 2: of moral complexity to the characters in this series, and

800
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:23,000
Speaker 2: Sid is definitely leaning into that area of like, oh

801
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 2: maybe I could be inspired to do better things and

802
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:28,920
Speaker 2: be better by these people who are around me. And

803
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:31,640
Speaker 2: this is just yeah, like you said, you love pod racing, Uh,

804
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 2: you love swoop racing, everyone's favorite shit from the nights

805
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 2: of the Old Republic. Like this is a really fun

806
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 2: kind of almost like silly breather.

807
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, after the bleakness that we saw, extreme bleakness.

808
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, it kind of makes the last episode even sadder

809
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 2: because you get to see the camaraderie and like friendship

810
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:54,600
Speaker 2: and trust yeah that the rest of the crew have

811
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 2: while Crossair is kind of living this isolated killer life.

812
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:04,360
Speaker 1: It feels like something you save for the penultimate episode

813
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 1: and the finale. But they have to cross paths again. Sorry,

814
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:09,840
Speaker 1: right they do?

815
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 2: I mean, what do you think the will crossha be

816
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 2: sent to kill them? Is that what it's going to be? Like?

817
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:17,160
Speaker 2: I feel like that seems like the ultimate kind of

818
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 2: poetic maybe specifically to kill Omega.

819
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that the bad Batch as set up

820
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:25,520
Speaker 1: in the first two episodes are gonna make the decision

821
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 1: that Okay, we're doing our own kind of independent things,

822
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:35,840
Speaker 1: scuttling across the galaxy in the Outer Rim, doing jobs

823
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 1: for SID, doing little other jobs here. But what we

824
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:41,239
Speaker 1: really need to do, which is something they grappled with

825
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:44,360
Speaker 1: in the first two episodes, is get involved in this

826
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:47,359
Speaker 1: fight such as it exists. Get involved in this fight

827
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:49,759
Speaker 1: against the Empire. And I think they're going to go

828
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:54,360
Speaker 1: do some sort of heisty job and Crosshair is gonna

829
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 1: be there with his clone troopers to meet them and

830
00:43:58,920 --> 00:43:59,839
Speaker 1: try and take them down.

831
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, and my prediction is that Commander Cody will kind

832
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:05,879
Speaker 2: of be alongside the bad Batch at that point.

833
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:07,480
Speaker 3: That will be fucking great. Yeah.

834
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 2: And you know what you actually called this because you'd

835
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 2: said you felt like this season was gonna be or

836
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 2: something you'd really like to see that you thought could happen,

837
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 2: would be like how does the bad Batch become involved

838
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:20,360
Speaker 2: with the rebellion? And that is from the very like

839
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:23,320
Speaker 2: you said, the very first episode, second episode, that is

840
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 2: a big theme. I mean they even have the repainted

841
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:29,720
Speaker 2: suits with like the red, yeah, which the red hints

842
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:32,640
Speaker 2: towards the rebel alliance. So we're seeing that move. I

843
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:38,560
Speaker 2: think by the end we could see them fully embracing

844
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 2: the rebellion. Also, I mean that first season when I

845
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:44,759
Speaker 2: was rewatching it for the pod Like, there are so

846
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:49,240
Speaker 2: many huge cameos, not less that huge like opening episode

847
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:51,720
Speaker 2: retcon opening, which I just loved, which kind of changes

848
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:55,680
Speaker 2: the fate of a really famous character. But I would

849
00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 2: be very interested to see who we're gonna see them

850
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:01,439
Speaker 2: come up against from others our war stories. I feel

851
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 2: like they're keeping it intimate at the moment with these

852
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:06,719
Speaker 2: characters that we know, who are so intrinsically connected. But

853
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 2: I feel like that penultimate episode kind of showdown could

854
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:15,200
Speaker 2: take place in a space where the rebellion is already forming,

855
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 2: where we could see some familiar faces.

856
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 3: One more question.

857
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 1: There was a tweetleck Green tweeleck in the crowd of

858
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:25,520
Speaker 1: the pod race, and I mean hera has already shown

859
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:26,839
Speaker 1: up in the Bad Batch season one.

860
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 3: Was she just like in the crowd, like just taking

861
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 3: in a race?

862
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:32,720
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I would love that. She was just chilling.

863
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 2: She's like, I need to see how things go for tech, Like,

864
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:38,319
Speaker 2: I just like, I mean, I love here. I feel

865
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:40,840
Speaker 2: like they're having a lot of fun with these like

866
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 2: recognizable alien life forms, kind of like what we talked

867
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:47,440
Speaker 2: about in The Mandalorian where they want you to look

868
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:49,960
Speaker 2: at them and be like, oh, is that character the character?

869
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 3: I think it is.

870
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:54,920
Speaker 2: I'm always for more, more hero more, anyone for rebels.

871
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:57,759
Speaker 1: My Star Wars wife, I want to see it. Will

872
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:00,759
Speaker 1: be checking in on the Bad Batch in suremittingly in

873
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 1: the coming weeks. Up next a very exciting nerd out.

874
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 2: In today's nerd Out, where you tell us what you

875
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:18,800
Speaker 2: love them, why, or a theory that you would like

876
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:22,239
Speaker 2: to share. Rodney listened to us. I've been saying on

877
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:24,839
Speaker 2: these episodes that you can send in a theory. I've

878
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:27,839
Speaker 2: been saying, send it in, make it Tim Foyley, make

879
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:30,200
Speaker 2: it as wild as me and Jason would make it.

880
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:33,480
Speaker 2: And you know what, Rodney actually came up with an

881
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 2: incredibly logical pitch. I'm very impressed by it. I'm actually

882
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:40,279
Speaker 2: surprised this hadn't come up on our list. So this

883
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:43,080
Speaker 2: is for Marvel's upcoming Secret Invasion series, and it is

884
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:45,480
Speaker 2: one of the questions that we and our listeners have

885
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:48,279
Speaker 2: been asking the most, which is who is going to

886
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:50,839
Speaker 2: be a scroll Jason? Why don't why don't you read

887
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:52,000
Speaker 2: the theory. It's a pretty good one.

888
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:55,239
Speaker 1: Sure this is from Rodney Hi there never sent in

889
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 1: a question before, but listening to this week speculation about

890
00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 1: who could be a scroll in the MSU, I'm flabbergas perfect.

891
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:04,000
Speaker 1: No one has theorized the one that seems like a

892
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:07,360
Speaker 1: no brainer. Sharon Carter. She's now the power broker and

893
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:10,439
Speaker 1: Magic were making shaded deals. She's gotta be one. Thanks

894
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:12,839
Speaker 1: for the fun pod. Always excited to hear you both

895
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 1: every week. Thank you, Rodney, thank you for these thoughts. Yes, yes,

896
00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:17,320
Speaker 1: I mean it, Yes.

897
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:20,439
Speaker 2: So much sense. Look, Sharon makes too much sense. I'm

898
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 2: not like, I'm not like the world's number one like

899
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 2: Agent thirteen fan that that vision of shield is not

900
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:28,120
Speaker 2: like something that gets me so excited. But I will

901
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 2: say I did not believe that Sharon Carter was essentially

902
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 2: an upset like an ex girlfriend of Steve Rogerson. Like what, like,

903
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:40,960
Speaker 2: you're you're mad about like that the Avengers didn't help you.

904
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:43,320
Speaker 2: I'm like, were you talking about? This is ridiculous? No,

905
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:46,640
Speaker 2: I love this. It makes so much sense. I really

906
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:51,920
Speaker 2: like the idea that this would be an absolutely different

907
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:55,400
Speaker 2: kind of power base for a scroll to have. It

908
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:58,799
Speaker 2: would be a scroll with millions of dollars. It would

909
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:02,800
Speaker 2: be a scroll with contacts in the shadiest place in

910
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:05,880
Speaker 2: the Marvel Universe where every criminal knows to come. It

911
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:09,840
Speaker 2: would also this is a bit Timfoiley, but Powerbroker can

912
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:12,600
Speaker 2: give people powers. We know that the Scrolls and the

913
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:16,000
Speaker 2: super Sculls can replicate, well the super Sculls specifically, they

914
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:18,480
Speaker 2: can replicate a power. Maybe there's something there, some kind

915
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:22,879
Speaker 2: of scroll technology that would be allowing Sharon to give

916
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:26,719
Speaker 2: those powers. I'm very interested in this theory, Rodney. She's

917
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:27,279
Speaker 2: on the list.

918
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 3: Now I'll go further.

919
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 1: I think it makes a lot of sense from a

920
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:33,759
Speaker 1: strategic point of view. If you're the scrolls, what do

921
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 1: the scrolls want to do? They want to take over,

922
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:39,759
Speaker 1: but first they want to do so covertly.

923
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:40,120
Speaker 3: Why.

924
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 1: One because they're scrolls and their shape shifts. This is

925
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:46,840
Speaker 1: the nature of the thing. Secondarily, it's because Earth is

926
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:50,279
Speaker 1: really really strong. They fought off Panos, they fought off

927
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:55,560
Speaker 1: multiple different kinds of incursions from gods, from aliens, et cetera.

928
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:57,840
Speaker 1: They have heroes that are really really powerful. They have

929
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:02,120
Speaker 1: a defense structure that is, you know, pretty powerful on

930
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 1: its own. They need to weaken all of that from

931
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 1: the insights.

932
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:06,400
Speaker 3: So how do you do that.

933
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:11,360
Speaker 1: You you weaken trust inmpowered people by giving losers and

934
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:16,760
Speaker 1: mirados and criminals and people who don't deserve it powers.

935
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:18,400
Speaker 3: Anybody who can pay for it.

936
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:20,160
Speaker 1: You give them powers. And by the way, those powers

937
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:22,879
Speaker 1: aren't even that good. They're just like, I can beat

938
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:26,600
Speaker 1: somebody immaculate. Yea, this theory is so good, Jason. And

939
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:32,600
Speaker 1: so now you're creating this kind of corrosive misinformation, creating

940
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:36,399
Speaker 1: this this environment in which people who used to look

941
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:39,880
Speaker 1: up to Tony Stark to the Hulk to captain America

942
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 1: are now like, is this really good thing.

943
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:44,359
Speaker 2: That everybody like sim before? But now it's.

944
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:47,000
Speaker 3: Now it's anybody.

945
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:52,400
Speaker 1: And and that is all working towards what the scrolls

946
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:54,879
Speaker 1: want to do, which is create this chaos, this kind

947
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:57,640
Speaker 1: of weakening of the of the social fabric so that

948
00:49:57,760 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 1: they can sneak in there and take control.

949
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:01,200
Speaker 3: I think it makes a lot of sense.

950
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 2: I love this, and I think that that would do

951
00:50:03,239 --> 00:50:06,400
Speaker 2: so much to destabilize the MCU as we know it,

952
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:09,920
Speaker 2: and it would explain that choice to me. Plus, I

953
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:14,239
Speaker 2: would love to see a space where you have like

954
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 2: this scroll powerbroker Sharon Carr involved with this, like Thunderbolts

955
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:23,120
Speaker 2: esque team, yes that Valley's putting together. There could just

956
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:27,480
Speaker 2: be so many maniacal evil things occurring in a way

957
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:30,120
Speaker 2: that we haven't really seen, you know, one of the

958
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:33,799
Speaker 2: classic superhero stories that kind of classic to the point

959
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:35,640
Speaker 2: where we rag on it when we see it, like

960
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:39,640
Speaker 2: you know, oh, no, Spider Man, there's an evil spider

961
00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 2: Man and he's doing stuff. It must be Spider Man

962
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:44,440
Speaker 2: stand Evil or Batman and it's just someone dressed up

963
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:46,520
Speaker 2: with them. We haven't gotten to see that in the

964
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:49,319
Speaker 2: MCU because of the nature of how these stories are

965
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:52,399
Speaker 2: told and the huge scope. So the idea that we'll

966
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:55,600
Speaker 2: get to see this inversion of what a superhero can

967
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:58,239
Speaker 2: be is actually really exciting on a narrative level and

968
00:50:58,280 --> 00:50:59,920
Speaker 2: as a fan, and leans into some of the most

969
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:03,640
Speaker 2: fun storytelling tropes of comics. But like you said this again,

970
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:06,239
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, it's going back there the X Men. This

971
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:10,520
Speaker 2: sets up that distrust and suspicion and fear that we

972
00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:13,000
Speaker 2: would need, and that could be something that could actually

973
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:17,440
Speaker 2: see the Scrolls get defeated or destabilize themselves, because if

974
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 2: they are in those roles it's going to be much

975
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:23,479
Speaker 2: harder for them to continue to be empower as people

976
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:26,840
Speaker 2: stopped to trust them. But if the scrolls revealed themselves

977
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:28,960
Speaker 2: in different forms or as scrolls and said, hey, these

978
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:31,400
Speaker 2: Suberas are terrible, we'll stop them, then you're in a

979
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:33,920
Speaker 2: really interesting place where they can take even more power.

980
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:36,040
Speaker 3: It's a great one, Rodney, you killed it.

981
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:38,800
Speaker 2: Thank you, Rodney. If you have any theories or passions

982
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:41,120
Speaker 2: you want to share like Rodney, hit us up at

983
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:44,279
Speaker 2: x ray at crooked dot com. Instructions as always in

984
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:45,200
Speaker 2: the show notes.

985
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:55,120
Speaker 1: That's it for us. Rosie plugs, plugs, plugs, plug plugs,

986
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:55,600
Speaker 1: any plugs.

987
00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:59,920
Speaker 2: You can find me rosymarks at Instagram and letterbox. I

988
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:02,719
Speaker 2: have a website rosienight dot comway you can read all

989
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:06,120
Speaker 2: of my articles which are archived on AU three. You

990
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:09,640
Speaker 2: can read some of my comic books there. Maybe I'll

991
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:11,480
Speaker 2: be able to tell you something about my top secret

992
00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:15,640
Speaker 2: project coming soon. But it's going, it's going, that's for sure.

993
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:20,640
Speaker 2: Oliver's artwork is looking beautiful as always. Yeah, and just

994
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:22,839
Speaker 2: listen to the extra vision. You know where we are

995
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:25,160
Speaker 2: here us now two times a week talking about all

996
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:25,960
Speaker 2: this cool stuff.

997
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:29,640
Speaker 1: You can find me on Twitter, Instagram, and network with

998
00:52:29,719 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 1: the three in the work. Reach out to me there.

999
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:34,600
Speaker 1: Catch the next episode on Wednesday, January twenty fifth, with

1000
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 1: more of the Last of Us. We're gonna be doing

1001
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:40,600
Speaker 1: a double Last of Us next week, covering the show

1002
00:52:40,640 --> 00:52:43,400
Speaker 1: on our Wednesday episode and then our second installment of

1003
00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:45,960
Speaker 1: our covers of the video game in our Friday episode.

1004
00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:48,440
Speaker 1: And remember, two episodes a week, two episodes a week

1005
00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:51,200
Speaker 1: we're bringing you to. That's two episodes a week, two

1006
00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:54,320
Speaker 1: episodes a week twice, the tinfoil Hat series twice, the

1007
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:55,960
Speaker 1: keep Dives twice.

1008
00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:57,719
Speaker 3: The stuff, we're doubling.

1009
00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:00,200
Speaker 2: It, folks, and so to make sure you get the

1010
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:03,800
Speaker 2: double stuff, you've got to subscribe to the show on YouTube,

1011
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:07,080
Speaker 2: follow x r V pod on Twitter, and check out

1012
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:09,480
Speaker 2: our discord where we're always hanging out meet and hang

1013
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:12,399
Speaker 2: out with a ton of amazing fans and listeners. I'm

1014
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:15,600
Speaker 2: me and Jason'll be in there. I'm really excited to

1015
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:18,239
Speaker 2: chat in the discord about the Last of Us when

1016
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:21,480
Speaker 2: we watch it. That live watch was really great, really

1017
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:22,040
Speaker 2: really fun.

1018
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:24,239
Speaker 3: Five star ratings. We need them.

1019
00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:27,200
Speaker 1: We gotta have them. You have them, you gotta give

1020
00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:31,280
Speaker 1: them to us. Here's one from Doris Henrique amazing, five stars,

1021
00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:34,520
Speaker 1: quick and to the point, and that's what we love

1022
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:37,160
Speaker 1: to Thank you, Doris Rique, See.

1023
00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:37,600
Speaker 2: You next time.

1024
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:44,280
Speaker 1: X ray Vision is a Crooked Media production.

1025
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:46,120
Speaker 3: The show is produced by Chris Lord and Saul Rubin.

1026
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:48,959
Speaker 1: The show is executive produced by myself and Sandy's Road

1027
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:52,120
Speaker 1: are editing in sound design Who's by Vascillis Fotopoulos. Dylon

1028
00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:55,680
Speaker 1: Villanueva and Matt der Group provide video production support. Alex

1029
00:53:55,719 --> 00:53:58,520
Speaker 1: Weller for Handle Social Media. Thank you Brian Vesquez for

1030
00:53:58,719 --> 00:53:59,200
Speaker 1: the music.

1031
00:53:59,640 --> 00:53:59,920
Speaker 3: That's it.

1032
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:07,840
Speaker 2: Bye MHM.