WEBVTT - Backcountry Hunting Using Mules 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:04.640 You're listening to the Sportsman's Nation podcast network powered by 0:00:04.840 --> 0:00:08.520 Interstate Batteries from your truck to your trail camera. Interstate 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:12.480 Batteries as you covered. Visit your local Interstate Batteries store 0:00:12.520 --> 0:00:17.880 today or online at Interstate Batteries dot com. Interstate Batteries 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:27.000 Outrageously Dependable. My name is Clay Nukeleman. I'm the host 0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:30.960 of the Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. I'll also be your 0:00:31.000 --> 0:00:34.560 host into the world of hunting the icon of North 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:40.519 American wilderness. There, we'll talk about tactics, gear conservation, who 0:00:40.520 --> 0:00:43.159 will also bring you into some of the wildest country 0:00:43.440 --> 0:00:55.120 on the planet chasing battery. Thank you for checking out 0:00:55.200 --> 0:00:59.840 the Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. On this episode, we're talking 0:00:59.840 --> 0:01:04.520 to about using mules to access the back country. My 0:01:04.680 --> 0:01:08.000 thirteen year old son and my sixteen year old good 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:11.760 friend's son are on the three day Christmas whitetail hunt 0:01:12.400 --> 0:01:16.240 hunting in Arkansas. Bear live in wild places and it's 0:01:16.240 --> 0:01:20.160 an adventure to get to them. Bears are iconic of 0:01:20.200 --> 0:01:24.000 North American wilderness and part of the adventure of hunting 0:01:24.040 --> 0:01:27.360 them is getting into wild places. I use a mule 0:01:27.800 --> 0:01:31.520 and have chosen to use a mule to access wild places, 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:36.520 to get deeper, and to stay longer. That is something 0:01:36.600 --> 0:01:39.040 just in the last few years that I have taken 0:01:39.040 --> 0:01:42.320 on as a challenge, and I have significantly enjoyed it. 0:01:42.760 --> 0:01:45.600 I have not enjoyed it because I necessarily think it's 0:01:45.600 --> 0:01:50.040 the best strategy for taking game back there. I haven't 0:01:50.120 --> 0:01:54.360 enjoyed it because it's the easiest. It's actually quite difficult 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:59.040 and has complexified my my hunting. It has put this 0:01:59.120 --> 0:02:02.760 whole other set around my hunting that I truly enjoy 0:02:02.960 --> 0:02:07.720 in my hunting, I am fine tuning the narrative of 0:02:07.800 --> 0:02:11.640 how I enjoy hunting and how I want to hunt 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:15.640 in unique ways. Hunting with a mule is not necessarily 0:02:15.639 --> 0:02:19.280 the most efficient way or the only way to access 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:22.680 back country, but it's the way that I have chosen 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:25.160 to do it. If my only goal was to get 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:28.280 antlers and meat, I would probably take the money and 0:02:28.440 --> 0:02:32.120 energy that I've invested in these mules and buy lease 0:02:32.200 --> 0:02:35.000 in Kansas and go up there for you know, a 0:02:35.080 --> 0:02:37.400 week and have a chance at a really nice buck. 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:40.680 I have not chosen to do that. I have chosen 0:02:40.720 --> 0:02:43.119 to drive and too. Probably some of the most difficult 0:02:43.160 --> 0:02:47.120 white tail hunting that there is in low density areas, 0:02:47.720 --> 0:02:51.560 rugged rough mountains, in places where you just don't see 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:55.240 many deer. And that's I say that because I live 0:02:55.280 --> 0:02:58.280 in northwest Arkansas. I could drive two and a half 0:02:58.280 --> 0:03:00.320 to three hours and being some of the best tail 0:03:00.400 --> 0:03:03.440 hunting in the country, and I've never done it. I 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:07.200 choose to limit myself and I dear hunt down there 0:03:07.320 --> 0:03:11.960 quite a bit, and that fits the narrative in the 0:03:12.000 --> 0:03:15.360 way that I want to and choose to limit myself 0:03:15.400 --> 0:03:19.239 in hunting, and I do not regret that decision. This 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:23.320 whitetail hunt is also directly connected to my public land 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:25.600 bear hunting. I want to make that clear because this 0:03:25.639 --> 0:03:28.480 is the Bear Hunting Magazine podcast where we talk about 0:03:28.560 --> 0:03:31.080 strategies for hunting bear and how to get people involved 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:34.440 in bear hunting, and well, this white tail hunt takes 0:03:34.440 --> 0:03:38.080 place in a region of Arkansas that I bear hunt, 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:44.080 and so intimately knowing the land is critical for public 0:03:44.160 --> 0:03:46.720 land bear hunting where we cannot use bait or hounds. 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:51.000 But we're just hunting these bears basically like deer and 0:03:51.040 --> 0:03:53.920 so on this hunt. Even though we're hunting white tails, 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:58.800 bear seasons long over, I am storing up information about 0:03:58.840 --> 0:04:01.920 the region for where and how I plan to bear 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:05.040 hunting next year. Lastly, before we get into the episode, 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:09.160 I think appreciating diversity and hunting is critical for the 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:11.400 future of our honey. When I say diversity of honting, 0:04:11.440 --> 0:04:14.880 what I mean is you'll see You'll see videos and 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:18.000 here podcasts of me talking about hunting bear over bait, 0:04:18.640 --> 0:04:21.320 and I love it. I'm passionate about hunting bear over bait. 0:04:21.400 --> 0:04:25.120 I think it's a challenge. I think it's a beautiful 0:04:25.520 --> 0:04:28.520 bear management tool to be selective. I think it is 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:31.840 extremely difficult to kill an older, mature mail over bait 0:04:31.920 --> 0:04:35.080 no matter where you're hunting. I love it. If you 0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:38.200 pigeon hold me and too thinking that that's all that 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:42.120 I appreciated, you would be mistaken. I also love bear 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:45.400 hunting with hounds. I think bear hunting with hounds is 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:50.880 one of the most underrated, underappreciated, most misunderstood methods of 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:55.599 legal hunting in today's world. Thirdly, I love spotting stock 0:04:55.680 --> 0:04:58.599 bear hunting. I love spotting stock bear hunting in the West, 0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:01.479 I love spotting stock bear hunting in the East. And 0:05:01.760 --> 0:05:04.520 my favorite way to hunt bear right here in my 0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:07.120 home state of Arkansas is to just go out in 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:11.080 the mountains and just hunt them like deer. And I 0:05:11.520 --> 0:05:15.520 value and appreciate all those different types of hunting. And 0:05:15.600 --> 0:05:20.159 I think that sometimes people are so focused on the 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:24.440 method that they prefer that they think that that is 0:05:24.520 --> 0:05:27.760 the moral high ground or the elite way to hunt, 0:05:28.120 --> 0:05:32.200 and they look negatively, speak never negatively, and look down 0:05:32.320 --> 0:05:37.000 upon other methods of hunting. That, my friends, is detrimental 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:41.039 to the whole of the hunting community. We have to 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:46.480 in twenty nineteen be people that are supportive of all 0:05:46.800 --> 0:05:51.640 legal methods of hunting, because the anti hunting community is 0:05:51.720 --> 0:05:57.360 after hunting through incrementalism. Every single thing that they take 0:05:57.400 --> 0:05:59.839 from us, we have nothing left to give them. Every 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:01.960 ele thing that they take from us at this point 0:06:02.600 --> 0:06:05.960 is a win that is going to contribute to more winds. 0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:09.320 And so yeah, it may be bear hunting with hounds today, 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:12.600 but in five years, ten years, whatever years, it's gonna 0:06:12.640 --> 0:06:15.120 be bow hunting. And after that it's gonna be this, 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:17.760 and after that it's gonna be that. We live in 0:06:17.800 --> 0:06:22.640 a critical time and unification is the only way forward. 0:06:22.920 --> 0:06:25.640 And I stand and speak on behalf of those who 0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:28.840 are at the bottom of the barrel. Bear hunting is 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:31.760 the target of the anti hunting community, and we are 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:35.960 rallying all of our brothers inside the hunting community to 0:06:36.160 --> 0:06:38.520 just stand for it. And by stand for it, I 0:06:38.520 --> 0:06:43.200 mean joint organizations that are defending bear hunting. Don't talk negatively, 0:06:43.240 --> 0:06:46.240 even in your own camps, even in your own families. 0:06:46.720 --> 0:06:50.760 Don't disparage people that hunt in different ways than you, 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:54.039 but build them up and say, man, we don't hunt 0:06:54.080 --> 0:06:57.960 that way, but man, ifit's legal and it's conservations based, 0:06:58.320 --> 0:07:02.719 scientific based, if it's adding mass to the North American 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:07.080 model of wildlife conservation, that is the most successful animal 0:07:07.279 --> 0:07:11.280 husbandry human effort on the history of the planet and 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:14.320 the history of mankind, and we're for it. That's what 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:16.600 we need to be saying to our kids. That's what 0:07:16.680 --> 0:07:19.600 we need to be saying the new hunters, and that's 0:07:19.600 --> 0:07:23.320 what that's that's where we need to be. So you'll 0:07:23.440 --> 0:07:27.640 enjoy this podcast about hunting in the back country, will 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:29.760 hear a few of our stories, and then we'll talk 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:33.320 about the specifics of how we're using this mule. I 0:07:33.360 --> 0:07:36.040 hate it when somebody has to make excuses for audio 0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:39.160 quality on a podcast, but you'll have to excuse some 0:07:39.240 --> 0:07:42.560 part of this podcast because of the wind. Just view 0:07:42.600 --> 0:07:46.240 it through the filter of this is some real hunting 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:51.679 authenticity the wind house sometimes. Welcome to the Bear Hunting 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:56.600 Magazine podcast. It is December twenty seventh, is that right? 0:07:57.440 --> 0:08:01.880 Two days after Christmas? Yip? Two days after Christmas? And 0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:08.520 I am here with my son, Bear Newcomb and practically 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:15.120 my other son, David Spillmaker practically Bears thirteen, David's six team, 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:21.000 and we are on the right now in Arkansas. There's 0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:24.800 a three day rifle season they call it the Christmas 0:08:24.880 --> 0:08:32.199 Hunt goes and we are on a back country white 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:36.640 tailed deer hunt. And before we get into the meat 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:38.160 of the podcast, I want to tell you what we're 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:40.920 gonna talk about. Basically, we're gonna try to keep this 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:45.600 podcast fairly short, even though Bear Newcomb is extremely long winded. Um, 0:08:45.960 --> 0:08:50.120 we're going to we're gonna talk about access in the 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:54.280 back country using mules, and we're gonna talk about the 0:08:54.320 --> 0:08:58.880 way that that we do it. And I'm gonna start 0:08:58.880 --> 0:09:01.000 off by saying that I don't profess that it's the 0:09:01.040 --> 0:09:04.360 best way, and I don't profess to have a lifetime 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:08.840 of experience doing this, but in either just David, but 0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:11.480 the way that I do. It has worked for us, 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:14.440 and we're learning every single time. And so we've we've 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:18.760 packed back in here on uh well, using my my 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:23.480 mule that I've named Ezy, and so okay, so let's start. 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:25.400 So that's what we're gonna talk about. We're gonna we're 0:09:25.400 --> 0:09:27.600 gonna talk about how to use the mule. But before 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:29.960 we do that, I want to talk a little bit 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:33.440 about exactly what we're doing and a little bit about 0:09:33.480 --> 0:09:38.400 this hunt. So now we so we we packed back in. 0:09:38.600 --> 0:09:42.400 We're in national forest here in Arkansas. We used the 0:09:42.520 --> 0:09:47.200 mule using a writing saddle and a paniard, which a 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:50.920 paniard is basically a bag that drapes over a writing saddle. 0:09:51.280 --> 0:09:55.040 So in short, what we do is we use the 0:09:55.160 --> 0:09:59.320 paniard bags to pack all our gear and then we 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:01.320 get to where and so we lead the mule in. 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:03.000 So we've only got one mule. There's three of us 0:10:03.040 --> 0:10:06.320 hunting and there's one mule. Basically, the mule carried everything 0:10:06.400 --> 0:10:12.679 in for us, right bear, not your backpack. So what 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:15.040 we do is we we lead the mule in here, 0:10:15.080 --> 0:10:16.760 so we did have to walk. Well, once we got here, 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:19.240 we unloaded all our gear and then we had a 0:10:19.360 --> 0:10:24.320 riding saddle underneath the paniard. And like today, you guys 0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:29.480 walked from camp to hunt, but I rode Izzy from 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:34.280 camp way off and hunted pretty far away using the mule. 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:38.760 The other part of this that would be that's valuable 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:42.160 is that if we killed the deer back here, and 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:44.320 now it's not bear season, but if it were a 0:10:44.320 --> 0:10:47.560 bear season and we killed the bear, typically a limiting 0:10:47.600 --> 0:10:50.439 factor of being back in like this would be that 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:53.480 if you killed the deer, and we're not terribly far 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:56.920 back in, but if you killed the deer, you would 0:10:56.960 --> 0:10:59.640 have a hard time getting it out. So that's a 0:10:59.679 --> 0:11:02.960 limiting act your butt. If you've got a mule that 0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:05.319 will carry game, and that's what I'm gonna get into, 0:11:05.400 --> 0:11:09.840 kind of the specifics of some of the things that 0:11:09.920 --> 0:11:13.680 people think about mules that maybe aren't necessarily true, and 0:11:14.080 --> 0:11:16.440 so I'm gonna stay the statement and clarify it later. 0:11:16.520 --> 0:11:18.720 If you have a mule that will haul game, if 0:11:19.320 --> 0:11:21.839 then you could use the mule to haul out game, 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:23.720 and then we'd come back in and get our camp. 0:11:24.280 --> 0:11:29.000 But now, so let's start off. I said bear, We 0:11:29.040 --> 0:11:31.840 went on this exact same hunt, and camp tried here 0:11:32.240 --> 0:11:35.920 about a month ago, is that right? Ye? On your birthday? 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:40.079 On my birthday, I turned up here. Yeah, you turned 0:11:40.080 --> 0:11:43.200 thirteen on this mountain, didn't you. I'll be darning. I 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:45.559 didn't even think about that on this trip. And let 0:11:45.559 --> 0:11:47.720 me let me describe something too about the way that 0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:51.160 we're hunting or or or the time period we were 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:55.080 back here on November put out these chick cameras. We 0:11:55.160 --> 0:11:57.920 saw some deer, bear actually passed a legal buck back 0:11:57.960 --> 0:12:02.199 in here, and uh, all the activity on the trail 0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:05.360 cameras was the first week of December, which I've decided 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:08.120 it's probably a good time to hunt the mountains of Arkansas, 0:12:08.800 --> 0:12:12.640 the late November, in the first week of December, because uh, 0:12:13.160 --> 0:12:15.960 the big seven point was actually chasing a dough on 0:12:15.960 --> 0:12:18.560 our truck camera. But I say all that to say 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:22.360 that we're right in amongst some pretty good deer for 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:28.000 public land, National Forest. And this is, uh, this is 0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:32.240 David's David's hunted, grew up hunting with us some but 0:12:32.240 --> 0:12:35.760 but you know, you've not hunted a ton with us. 0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:40.240 But so this is your first well it's not your 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:42.600 first back country hunt because you killed the gobbler turkey 0:12:42.679 --> 0:12:45.000 up here. How old were you when we did that. 0:12:45.720 --> 0:12:48.200 So it's two years ago to fourteen. Yeah, we did. 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:50.959 We did this exact same thing that the mule, and 0:12:51.000 --> 0:12:55.120 except your dad came. My dad came, about six or 0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:57.760 seven of us. It's right. Che didn't go quite as 0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:00.520 smoothly with the meal that time. Why there's a lot 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:04.520 of bags falling off and ripping and things like that happening. Yeah, 0:13:04.559 --> 0:13:08.640 we've re sewed the bag, that's right. That's right. Yeah, yeah, 0:13:09.000 --> 0:13:12.560 we were. That was one of our earlier back country 0:13:12.600 --> 0:13:17.000 adventures on the mule, and I was intentionally trying to 0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:20.080 push the limits. I mean, we had that mule packed 0:13:20.120 --> 0:13:23.040 with so much stuff it was unbelievable. So it really 0:13:23.120 --> 0:13:25.320 wasn't the mule's fault or the packing fault. We were 0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:27.640 just trying to put everybody's backpack on. We were trying 0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:30.839 to carry goods for seven guys for two days, and 0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:34.800 not just goods, but a lot of goods, water, carrying 0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:38.280 everybody's backpack. The mule was carrying everybody's shotguns. I mean, 0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:42.160 it was quite the ordeal. But we So it was 0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:47.720 opening day of youth Turkey season, and we got ways 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:51.320 back in here, camped out and opened the morning Turkey season. 0:13:51.400 --> 0:13:52.880 We just walked up on top of the mountain then 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:55.760 called in to we did we called into gobblers. We 0:13:55.800 --> 0:13:59.160 actually we weren't even sitting down and we just spotted 0:13:59.200 --> 0:14:01.360 too and then just hit the ground real fast, loaded 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:04.360 the gun and then shot shot this turkey coming by. 0:14:04.360 --> 0:14:06.520 It was pretty awesome. Yeah, yeah, we called him in. 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:09.439 They the wind was howling that morning, so we felt 0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:13.120 really fortunate that we even got on a turkey. Okay, 0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:17.720 so you guys walked out from Camp Bear. You left 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:22.520 camp what time this morning? Like seven fift seven? I 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:25.120 don't know. We got we still gotta go backwards. It 0:14:25.480 --> 0:14:28.520 rained last night. We got in here, yesterdy and hunted 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:33.280 yesterday afternoon, very windy last night, At like seven pm 0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:37.760 it absolutely started to howl. The wind did, and it 0:14:37.840 --> 0:14:40.360 started to rain. It started raining at seven pm and 0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:43.560 did not stop raining until probably six thirty this morning. 0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:45.680 And I mean it didn't just rain. How hard did 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:48.120 it rain? Well, we have this tarp up here and 0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:51.920 it was just like banging and you could hear like 0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:55.520 water dripping off of it, and it was like thunder 0:14:55.560 --> 0:15:01.280 and lighting. The entire tent would us like flash all 0:15:01.320 --> 0:15:04.080 of a sudden. It was crazy. So much lightning. It 0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:08.360 was a pretty intense night, but we stayed dry. I 0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:11.160 think the only we're staying in just kind of an 0:15:11.200 --> 0:15:13.680 average two man tent. There's three of us in there, 0:15:14.120 --> 0:15:18.800 but it but we we've got a tarp strategically placed 0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:24.640 with about fifteen ties going to different trees. We've got 0:15:24.640 --> 0:15:26.600 our we've got our tent up. I mean, we've got 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:28.920 a tarp over the tent, which helped some. I think 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:31.880 that's the only reason we really stayed dry. Okay, bear, 0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:35.160 so you we want we David's larm went off this 0:15:35.200 --> 0:15:37.000 morning at like five thirty, and I told him just 0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:40.120 to turn it off because the rain was just pounding down. 0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:43.120 At five thirty, we all went back to sleep, and 0:15:43.160 --> 0:15:45.360 then I woke up and there was just a little 0:15:45.400 --> 0:15:48.320 bit of twilight out and it had stopped raining. So 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:52.560 you left the tent about seven fifteen, And what did 0:15:52.560 --> 0:15:55.960 you do? Well? I went down to the spot that 0:15:56.000 --> 0:16:01.240 I was hunting yesterday, and I was thinking, and maybe 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:06.800 I should go lower this time because David was hunting 0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:10.120 pretty close to me, and so we would have been 0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:12.960 like a couple hundred yards apart. So I decided to 0:16:12.960 --> 0:16:17.280 go lower and I found a nice little spot where 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:21.400 I could see way out in front of me, and 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:24.000 I could see the creek at the very bottom of 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:27.600 the mountain. And yesterday we hiked up this mountain, and 0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:29.920 then by the time we got up here, I mean day, 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:32.320 would just threw off our bags and just like sat 0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:34.560 down because not tired we were. And I realized that 0:16:34.600 --> 0:16:36.440 I was at the very bottom and I was gonna 0:16:36.480 --> 0:16:39.240 have to do it again. So I sat there for 0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:44.200 probably an hour, and then I heard some like leave 0:16:44.280 --> 0:16:51.200 shuffling over to my far right, and I I got 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:53.600 I pulled my gun up and I slowly looked over 0:16:53.640 --> 0:16:58.720 there and I saw the head of a turkey and 0:16:59.720 --> 0:17:02.040 it's started coming down, and I realized that there are 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:05.600 more turkeys with it. And then six turkeys came out 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:09.520 in front of me, and they all kind of just 0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:14.040 went down the mountain. And one came and was kind 0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:16.840 of curious to see what I was what I was, 0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:19.000 because you know, they see in color. And he came 0:17:19.080 --> 0:17:21.880 really close, like ten yards, and then he went down 0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:26.080 and I moved down a little bit. I moved down 0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:30.280 like probably I don't know, thirty yards, so I could 0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:32.920 see even further out. But there was also this little 0:17:32.960 --> 0:17:36.040 trail an old logging road and I saw another turkey. 0:17:36.760 --> 0:17:40.480 Then here's what it got exciting. This is the most 0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:44.480 exciting thing that happened to us on this hunt. Squirrel. 0:17:45.000 --> 0:17:49.320 Squirrel came up right behind me. Wow, that's exciting. So 0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:54.200 so Bear saw some turkeys. And how long did you 0:17:54.280 --> 0:17:59.160 have Bear all day? I mean Bear walked back to camp. 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:03.000 I saw him come up the hill at about five 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:07.080 o'clock maybe five, and so he hunted from seven fifteen 0:18:07.240 --> 0:18:11.040 until let's just say five fifteen. So was that ten hours? 0:18:12.640 --> 0:18:16.920 And you didn't come back to camp. I mean, thirteen 0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:19.800 year old boy walks out here and hunts for ten hours. 0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:22.200 And I know that he sat there for a long time. 0:18:22.280 --> 0:18:25.720 And David basically did the same thing except you. I 0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:28.119 told David to go hunt on this side of the 0:18:28.240 --> 0:18:31.480 ridge this morning, come back to camp, have lunch, go 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:33.520 back to the other side of the ridge. And so 0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:37.400 I mean you were only in camp for an hour today? Yeah, 0:18:37.560 --> 0:18:40.960 less than that, actually, probably about forty five minutes old together. Fortunately, 0:18:41.040 --> 0:18:43.439 my day wasn't as eventful as Bear. As I did 0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:46.040 see a bird, you know, and and I read a sign. 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:49.080 It was pretty pretty crazy, you know, that's crazy. As 0:18:49.119 --> 0:18:52.360 Bear wasn't no squirrel. But you know, yeah, wow, that's 0:18:52.400 --> 0:18:55.520 what's crazy about this back country hunting. And when we 0:18:55.560 --> 0:18:58.080 say back country, what we mean is just in Arkansas, 0:18:58.160 --> 0:19:00.480 we've got big blocks of National Forest which are pretty 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:07.800 much um continual, just big mature timber, very little timber harvest. 0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:11.520 The last twenty years in Arkansas and the National Forest 0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:13.800 has been very little timber harvest. And and I mean 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:18.240 this big woods. It's beautiful and we like it. It's 0:19:18.240 --> 0:19:22.640 a good bare habitat, but it's a low densities of animals. 0:19:22.720 --> 0:19:25.000 And so I was the only one today that even 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:27.879 saw deer. And I saw a deer while I was 0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:30.440 riding up the mountain on Issy's back, and she always 0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:34.480 sees game before I do. I saw her poker ears 0:19:34.560 --> 0:19:37.360 up and look, and I knew she saw a deer, 0:19:38.080 --> 0:19:41.240 and immediately it looked up and probably yards away, I 0:19:41.280 --> 0:19:44.240 saw two white tails running up the hill that probably 0:19:44.400 --> 0:19:47.040 wasn't hundred and fifty yards behind our camps. So he 0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:54.040 stuck a gun between her ears. I am gradually training 0:19:54.119 --> 0:19:56.040 her to shoot off of her back. I haven't done 0:19:56.080 --> 0:19:58.440 it yet, but I think I think she do. I 0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:02.480 shot shoot a bow off her back. I do know that. Well, 0:20:03.200 --> 0:20:07.080 that's a great place to to segue into using a 0:20:07.200 --> 0:20:10.359 mule to access this country. So I just want to 0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:12.800 give a little bit of a background, and I'm open 0:20:12.840 --> 0:20:15.760 it up to these young men who both have been 0:20:15.840 --> 0:20:20.679 involved in a couple of back country mule hunts. Now, um, 0:20:21.000 --> 0:20:25.919 in Arkansas, we're not accessing back country that has twenty 0:20:26.040 --> 0:20:30.200 miles of you know, open trail before you start hunting. 0:20:30.240 --> 0:20:34.960 I mean, we're really accessing, comparative to the West, relatively 0:20:35.119 --> 0:20:41.119 small areas of wilderness or national forest. And so that 0:20:41.320 --> 0:20:43.720 one of the techniques that I learned from my my 0:20:44.400 --> 0:20:47.040 really good friend James Lawrence been on the podcast before, 0:20:47.600 --> 0:20:51.119 is packing in using the mule to pack all your garia, 0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:55.399 and then using the mule to ride out from your 0:20:55.480 --> 0:20:57.360 camp to go where you need to go, and using 0:20:57.400 --> 0:21:02.480 the mule to huh back any game they have you kill. 0:21:03.440 --> 0:21:06.600 I want to give some background. I grew up like 0:21:07.280 --> 0:21:09.720 I had a good friend that had a lot of horses. 0:21:09.760 --> 0:21:11.320 I spent quite a bit of time at this house 0:21:11.359 --> 0:21:13.840 and we rode and stuff. But but my family didn't 0:21:13.880 --> 0:21:18.160 have econ animals. So I would be just like any 0:21:18.240 --> 0:21:21.840 of you guys out there that aren't familiar with with 0:21:22.119 --> 0:21:24.359 mules or horses, as I didn't have a ton of 0:21:24.440 --> 0:21:28.840 experience with them. Um And for those of you who 0:21:29.040 --> 0:21:32.640 are experienced horsemen or mule people, then I'm probably gonna 0:21:32.680 --> 0:21:34.720 say a lot of stuff that maybe you even disagree with, 0:21:34.880 --> 0:21:39.640 but that's okay, or you you already know. But when 0:21:39.720 --> 0:21:45.000 I had this image of own mule, and I've had 0:21:45.080 --> 0:21:47.200 it for years and years, and I think it started 0:21:47.240 --> 0:21:51.320 as a little boy seeing people in the community that 0:21:51.359 --> 0:21:54.120 I grew up in. All these old men had mules, 0:21:54.680 --> 0:21:59.560 and mules are really kind of a icon of Southern culture, 0:22:00.160 --> 0:22:03.040 and not even Southern culture, but they're an icon of 0:22:03.720 --> 0:22:11.199 American agricultural rural regions. And I knew from growing up 0:22:11.240 --> 0:22:14.840 to um in the Washington Mountain of Arkansas, I knew 0:22:14.920 --> 0:22:17.840 guys that hunted on mules, and I think my dad 0:22:18.000 --> 0:22:21.440 probably told me stories about those guys and meeting back 0:22:21.480 --> 0:22:23.359 in those days. I thought it was cool when they 0:22:23.440 --> 0:22:26.720 did they were using mules to get back in And 0:22:26.880 --> 0:22:30.840 so about three or four years ago, I finally was 0:22:30.920 --> 0:22:32.960 in a position in life where I could had a 0:22:33.040 --> 0:22:36.679 place for a mule, and I just was like, man, 0:22:36.680 --> 0:22:39.400 I'm gonna buy a mule and I didn't know much 0:22:39.480 --> 0:22:42.960 at all about I figured it was gonna be harder 0:22:43.000 --> 0:22:46.000 than what I thought. But I kind of had a naive, 0:22:47.160 --> 0:22:50.680 this naive idea that you just bought a good mule 0:22:50.960 --> 0:22:52.360 and it was like right, and the foe with her, 0:22:52.760 --> 0:22:55.639 I mean, he just kind of got on it and 0:22:55.760 --> 0:22:58.960 went and you know, you'd have to be a good writer, 0:22:59.200 --> 0:23:03.320 and you have to, you know, take care of it, 0:23:03.440 --> 0:23:05.320 and you have to learn how to load it. You'd 0:23:05.359 --> 0:23:07.240 have to learn about all the tack and all the 0:23:07.359 --> 0:23:12.359 gear and of some of which already knew. But I 0:23:12.600 --> 0:23:17.520 quickly found out that getting into mules and horses is 0:23:17.600 --> 0:23:23.720 a highly complex thing and I had to do a 0:23:23.800 --> 0:23:28.720 lot of learning quick because I don't want to discourage 0:23:28.720 --> 0:23:31.240 anybody from getting a mule, of course for the reasons 0:23:31.280 --> 0:23:33.560 that I have, But I will tell you you better 0:23:33.640 --> 0:23:37.640 have you better be ready for difficulty, and you better 0:23:37.680 --> 0:23:41.200 be ready to learn to love it. And that's what 0:23:41.359 --> 0:23:43.200 I have. And that's the reason I'm talking about is 0:23:43.240 --> 0:23:47.280 because I truly have learned to love mules now that 0:23:47.400 --> 0:23:49.840 I've messed with them and had some bad experiences with 0:23:49.960 --> 0:23:52.920 them too. But Bear, what do you think when we 0:23:52.960 --> 0:23:58.480 first started getting mules, h you were you with me? 0:23:58.840 --> 0:24:01.040 You getn't think much said, was were you with me 0:24:01.119 --> 0:24:05.360 when we got that first mule out of Lamar, Missouri? Yeah, 0:24:05.480 --> 0:24:09.600 that was yeah. And then to give you a little 0:24:09.600 --> 0:24:12.160 bit of history about my I think it was June 0:24:12.240 --> 0:24:16.600 of twenty sixteen. I guess, I guess it's only been 0:24:17.800 --> 0:24:19.520 There'll be three years this June. So two and a 0:24:19.520 --> 0:24:23.120