1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:05,560 Speaker 1: She created a website, she created a hundred numbers. She 2 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:09,959 Speaker 1: created a guy named Brent Harrison using Spoo software. And 3 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:13,040 Speaker 1: I'm thinking, I'm talking to a guy overseas that wants 4 00:00:13,039 --> 00:00:16,439 Speaker 1: to invest into my winery. And really, I'm talking to 5 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:19,960 Speaker 1: that woman in Orange County that is just scamming me 6 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 1: the whole time. And it sounded like a man, it did. 7 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:27,240 Speaker 1: It sounded just like a man. Jay Avery's company, Jack Wines, 8 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: is scammed out of nearly three hundred thousand dollars by 9 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: c p A. Lizzie Mulder and Laguna Beach Police Detective 10 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 1: Jordan Morakian is digging in the bottom line. Is there 11 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 1: fake people who are accepting invoices on behalf of Lizzie 12 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:48,480 Speaker 1: Moulder and Jack Wines? And money is not going from 13 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:51,560 Speaker 1: Jack Wines to these people, It's going right back into 14 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 1: Lizzie Moulder's account. And around the same time that Jay 15 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: Avery is getting scammed, Mike Cochrane's print shop is con 16 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: artists Lizzie Malder's latest mark. I was talking to a gal. 17 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 1: She was a dog trainer we used to print business 18 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:10,039 Speaker 1: cards for. She knew a girl, young lady Elizabeth Mulder, 19 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:14,039 Speaker 1: and referred to us said she's a tax repairer, was 20 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:17,479 Speaker 1: like her second mom. She claimed, I leave a voicemail 21 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 1: for this dog trainer. Hey, my name is Jonathan Walton, 22 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: and she calls me back the next day telling me 23 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 1: I actually have it all wrong. Lizzie Mulder is completely innocent. 24 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: I'm Jonathan Walton and this is Queen of the con 25 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 1: The O C Savior episode four, better than everybody, you know. 26 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 1: The embarrassing part about us is we're one of the 27 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 1: lower rip offs. Okay, she took eighteen thousand dollars out 28 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 1: of my business. She took a little over twenty dollars 29 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 1: out of my parents. It's been more than ten years 30 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 1: since c p A. Lizzie Mulder first darkens myke Cochran's 31 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:18,240 Speaker 1: door away. He hires her in to do taxes for 32 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 1: his Orange County print shop. My dad died about three 33 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: and a half four months after I met Lizzie. I 34 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 1: took my eyes off my business. I didn't give a ship, dude. 35 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:31,240 Speaker 1: You know, I was wandering around. And just so you know, 36 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 1: I have two older sisters. My mental sister has mental health. 37 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:36,959 Speaker 1: She lived with my parents her whole life. Things got 38 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:39,800 Speaker 1: worse with time. So after my dad expired, she blew 39 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:42,800 Speaker 1: a fuse, I'm sure, and went into a facility and 40 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: all that. So I was family mode. You're just in 41 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 1: family mode and you're like, well, there's enough money in 42 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 1: the bank, pay roll is going to go through with 43 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 1: my crew. And Lizzie made you believe she's on top 44 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 1: of things. Oh yeah, yeah, no, I got it. Don't 45 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 1: worry about it. Remote, this remote that she's on information 46 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 1: from the I r S saying things are moving along, 47 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 1: and then there'll be some emails and I mean, dude, 48 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:12,360 Speaker 1: the whips she played to create billing we're all fabrications, 49 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: every one of them. So she would send you documents, 50 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 1: semi documents from the I r S, but really she 51 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:22,520 Speaker 1: created those documents herself. Oh yeah, and they were payments 52 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: to income tax payments. But the KUDA grab was the 53 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 1: checking account with the name income tax payments. And I 54 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 1: had invoices from the I r S saying make checks 55 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 1: payable to income tax payments. So it's kind of like 56 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 1: you have an I r S document backing up the 57 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 1: name of this account, you know, and when you say 58 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 1: it out loud, you go, that doesn't sound right. But 59 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 1: at the time it flew right through. Do you hold 60 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 1: Bank of America responsible at all. Totally. That's bullshit, man, 61 00:03:56,480 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 1: I mean that's lack of moral account ability. Because she 62 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 1: can just go to Bank of America and open up 63 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 1: an account called income tax payments and they don't. That 64 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 1: doesn't raise a red flag for him. Yeah, no, that's 65 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: just bullshit. But then we also paid Molder Financial Services, 66 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 1: which was her tax preparing, so we actually paid her 67 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 1: to prepare Wait a minute, she didn't prepare taxes paid 68 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 1: her to scam you. We paid her to scam us. 69 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:29,480 Speaker 1: She even did a crazy thing. Probably about two years 70 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 1: into working with her, she told us that there was 71 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 1: an audit that she had to go to in l 72 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:37,039 Speaker 1: A to the main office for your company for my business. 73 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 1: Ye needed some information, provide all these documents that edited. 74 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go there. I'm gonna have to take a 75 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 1: girl with me, just so you know it's going to 76 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 1: be expensive and you know, oh, but this will take 77 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 1: care of it. We're going to clear it all up. 78 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 1: Fuck total bullshit, Okay. She she wanted to get money 79 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: from you to go on this trip from to go 80 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:00,919 Speaker 1: up and do the I R S on it in 81 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:03,159 Speaker 1: l A with her and one of her assistants and 82 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 1: there never wasn't on it. That was never wasn't on it, 83 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:11,160 Speaker 1: complete fabrication. She did a series of phone calls. Factis information. 84 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 1: Oh I'm at the office right now. Hold Tom one sack. 85 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:16,480 Speaker 1: This agent's gonna call you. He's gonna talk to you. 86 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 1: So you talked to who you thought was an I R. S. Agent, 87 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:21,919 Speaker 1: But it was Lizzie Malder. It was Lizzie Molder. And 88 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 1: what does that voice sound like? It sounded like a dude. 89 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: You know at the time, I didn't like imprinted in 90 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 1: my brain. Okay, like I should remember the sound of 91 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 1: this voice. It was not It was not a female voice. 92 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:40,040 Speaker 1: It had more baritone or what did guys have, Adam 93 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 1: sample something, there's some different tweak and a guy's voice, 94 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 1: and what do you guys have? Well, you know what 95 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:48,039 Speaker 1: I'm saying. No, yeah, no, it's like a deeper ment 96 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:53,359 Speaker 1: like a man's like a man's voice. Absolutely, I just 97 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:56,279 Speaker 1: assumed it was a guy. And this sounded all legit 98 00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, okay, and yes I agree with that. 99 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 1: And you know he was asking me questions in particular 100 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:05,839 Speaker 1: to our taxes, and you know, I just soaked it 101 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:09,479 Speaker 1: all up. But looking back, you're like Jesus man, that's 102 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 1: that's sophistication. That is a person that is a professional. 103 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:18,160 Speaker 1: And how does she steal the money from your parents. 104 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 1: My dad was close to death. Okay. Uh, he's in 105 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 1: a like a hospice hospice care. Yeah, where everybody's trying 106 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 1: to have you take the magic pill and go to sleep. Okay. 107 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 1: So he's winding down and he's trying to get his 108 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 1: affairs in order. So he was selling stock. My dad 109 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:40,799 Speaker 1: had some inheritance, some houses. His brother and sister died, 110 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: no kids, and he got the houses. So you know, 111 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 1: the boy built up some funds and was trying to 112 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:48,040 Speaker 1: take care of my mom, so he was generating some 113 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 1: cash and so on and so forth. Lizzie was helping us. 114 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 1: So we thought I told my parents. I only knew 115 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:57,920 Speaker 1: Lizzie for about a month. Okay. She did the taxes 116 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 1: from my mom and dad had them right five checksture, 117 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 1: you know where they all went, income tax pay income 118 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:09,479 Speaker 1: tax payments, and so she uh filed the taxes, but 119 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 1: she did not apply any of the payments. Of course, 120 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 1: she took that money for herself. Then she was saying 121 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 1: that she wanted to help them with their estates. So 122 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 1: that was where Lizzie possibly could have stole millions of dollars. 123 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 1: But my mom was like, nope, nope, nope. My mom 124 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 1: was an executive secretary. She used to do stuff for 125 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:33,480 Speaker 1: one of the vps at Wells Fargo. So my mom 126 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 1: had her ship together, thank god, thank god, you know, 127 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 1: and basically said, no, baby, I'm in charge. I take 128 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 1: care of this when you get stuck in one of 129 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 1: these crappy situations with I hope most people don't, okay, 130 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 1: but there's millions of common people out there. In my view, 131 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 1: the real human nature is dirty, you know, human nature. Well, 132 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 1: I don't think human nature is dirty. I think most 133 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 1: people are good, fine people. Yeah, but Lizzie, Uh, Lizzie 134 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 1: really got us. She pooled us the whole way. Talking 135 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 1: to Mike, it's clear that he's not over what happened 136 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 1: to him. I mean, how could he be. This has 137 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: been one of the biggest mistakes in my life. Well, 138 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 1: you see, I don't think you should frame it that way. 139 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 1: What you didn't make a mistake. You were the victim 140 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 1: of a con artist, yes that you were. Just the 141 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 1: mistake you made was having a business and needing a 142 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 1: c p A, that's not a mistake. And then this 143 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 1: dog trainer recommends her. This woman gave her a glowing recommendation. Yeah, 144 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 1: do you think she's in on it? I question it 145 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 1: highly because she was a woman of very simple means. 146 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 1: I think it's a nice way of saying it. And 147 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 1: now she has quite a bit means, but a dog trainer. Yeah, 148 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:54,960 Speaker 1: but she met a nice man. Okay. She never gave 149 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:59,839 Speaker 1: me any signals that she would lie or swindle me 150 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 1: or anything. Well, after my meeting with Mike Cochrane, I 151 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 1: get a return phone call from the dog trainer on 152 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:14,200 Speaker 1: February eight at ten past nine in the morning, and 153 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:18,439 Speaker 1: my mouth is a gape for our entire seven minute conversation. 154 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 1: I wish I could play it for you, but she 155 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 1: didn't agree to be recorded. The dog trainer doesn't want 156 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 1: to be interviewed for the podcast, and she says neither 157 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:31,320 Speaker 1: does Lizzie or anyone in her family. She goes on 158 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:34,680 Speaker 1: to tell me that Lizzie Mulder is not a con 159 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:38,560 Speaker 1: artist at all, and all those entrepreneurs she did the 160 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 1: books for the winery, the salon, Mike's print shop are 161 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 1: just bad business people who lose money and they're now 162 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 1: trying to blame poor Lizzie Mulder. Okay, I call up 163 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 1: Mike Cochrane to see what he makes of this interesting revelation. 164 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 1: I'm thinking, or more, dude, that she was the one 165 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: that referred us to her. I'm starting to think that 166 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:09,199 Speaker 1: this was a group, not an individual, like a family 167 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 1: of scammers, a family of scammers. So it's a very 168 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 1: suspect situation with her. You know, her occupation of training 169 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:22,200 Speaker 1: dogs as well. A lot of people have dogs. She 170 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 1: could have come in and you know, we have her 171 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:27,680 Speaker 1: up here and she trained our dogs, so she got 172 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 1: a full look at our house and our assets and stuff. 173 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 1: And maybe that's what prompted Lizzy to come onto us. 174 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 1: She was like doing reconnaissance possibly, so you know, I mean, 175 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 1: you get you know, all sorts of paranoia theories come 176 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:46,560 Speaker 1: into play. But when you start looking at lizzy body 177 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 1: of work, nothing was out of bound, nothing was too 178 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 1: far fetched because look at all the methods she used 179 00:10:53,080 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 1: to extort people. My next call is to the owner 180 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:07,680 Speaker 1: and operator of Jack Wines, who Lizzie scams out of 181 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:12,719 Speaker 1: nearly three hundred thousand dollars. Hello, hey, ja Vree, can 182 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 1: you talk now? I came in. I'm just driving. I'm 183 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:23,960 Speaker 1: in a fucking RV, so low and flow. Maybe, since 184 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 1: Lizzie was almost like a sister to Jay, or at 185 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 1: least she was pretending to be while she was scamming him, 186 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 1: I'm wondering if he actually knows the dog trainer. Yeah, 187 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:38,080 Speaker 1: I've never met her, but I've heard that name before. 188 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:41,679 Speaker 1: So what's going on with that? I talked to her 189 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:44,320 Speaker 1: and she doesn't want to do an interview. Shocker, because 190 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: the dog trainer tells me Lizzie Maulder is innocent. Lizzie 191 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:50,560 Speaker 1: Maulder is not a con artist. You and all the 192 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:53,840 Speaker 1: other victims are just making this up because you're bad 193 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 1: business people. You lost money and you're trying to blame her. Wow, 194 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:03,200 Speaker 1: I mean that is that's interesting. Wow, that's my mind 195 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 1: is well right now, I'm specious. Don't even thinks this 196 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 1: is wild. I mean, that's that's cognitive dissidence like I've 197 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:15,079 Speaker 1: never seen before. Somebody madam impressed. I just don't understand 198 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:17,559 Speaker 1: how you can even come up with the concept that 199 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: is insulting and delisional like that crazy. But the fact 200 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 1: that you know we made it up, it's crazy. You're 201 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 1: still rattling the I R S right now from you know, 202 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 1: I'm not paying taxes for five years, and the I 203 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 1: R S just was originally came after me. It was 204 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:39,560 Speaker 1: was all over a million and a half and you know, 205 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 1: a million justin penalties because she didn't find my taxes. 206 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:46,839 Speaker 1: But the part about that that you know, frustrates me 207 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 1: is that I thought I paid my taxes. I put 208 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 1: money in the account for tactics. I had no clue 209 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 1: that she wouldn't paying them. So I'm still dealing with 210 00:12:57,240 --> 00:13:00,320 Speaker 1: a five year later. So it's just infult thing even 211 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 1: think that someone getting even go down that room and 212 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 1: making that Livie in benefit, you know, yeah, I know. Hey, Johnathan, 213 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:16,680 Speaker 1: how are you. I'm good man, thank you so much 214 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 1: for My next phone call is to Sergeant Jordans Moracian, 215 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:23,560 Speaker 1: the Laguna Beach Police detective investigating Lizzie Milder back in. 216 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 1: I want to know if he knows about the dog trainer. Yep, 217 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 1: it sounds like what she said to me. So you 218 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 1: talked to the dog trainer. Yeah, I talked to her. 219 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 1: I tried to go out there and actually visit her 220 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:48,079 Speaker 1: in person. She wanted nothing to do with me, she said, 221 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 1: that everyone was framing Lizzy and that Lizzy was innocent 222 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 1: and we got it all wrong, and she's a sweetheart, 223 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:58,679 Speaker 1: she would trust her dogs, and her life was Lizzy. 224 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:01,680 Speaker 1: And I said, I understand where you're coming from, but 225 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 1: I have pages and pages of bank records that tell 226 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 1: me different. And I left it at that. She wanted 227 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 1: nothing to do with me. This just reeks of a conspiracy. 228 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:17,599 Speaker 1: To me, the dog trainer taking Lizzie Mulder's side means 229 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 1: she's got to be in on the scam, right. But 230 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 1: I realized, as the victim of a con artist myself, 231 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 1: my lingering, anger and emotion can sometimes get the best 232 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 1: of me and blind me from seeing things clearly. So 233 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 1: I reach out to a neutral third party who doesn't 234 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: have a dog in this race, but does have decades 235 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 1: of experience investigating complex criminality. Jonathan I was a psychiatric 236 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 1: nurse for ten years when the FBI recruited me to 237 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 1: be a special agent, and that looked like fun to me. 238 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 1: So I turned in my stethoscope for a Smith and Wesson, 239 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 1: and there I was. Candice DeLong was a criminal profiler 240 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: for the FBI from two thousand. She worked on some 241 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 1: pretty groundbreaking cases from the Thailand All murders. Johnson and 242 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 1: Johnson is now offering a one hundred thousand dollar award 243 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 1: for those responsible for spiking Tail and all capsules with 244 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 1: deadly cyanide poisoning to taking down the unibomber, FBI agents 245 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 1: are searching the Montana cabin of former mathematics professor Ted Kazinski. 246 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 1: These days, though, Candice hosts a podcast called Killer Psyche 247 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 1: where she shares her expertise on the criminal mind. One 248 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 1: of the most difficult situations is if you're in love 249 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 1: with someone, then you've got blinders on love is truly 250 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 1: truly blind. The emotion of it prevents you from seeing 251 00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 1: clearly or analyzing clearly what's right in front of you. 252 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 1: Because con artists, in a way get their victims to 253 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: fall in love with them, even if it's not a 254 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 1: romantic love. Yes, it's it's friendship. They groomed them. And 255 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 1: when you really love someone or like someone or consider 256 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 1: someone a quote best friend, yeah, you overlook a lot. 257 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 1: You'll believe a lot that you wouldn't believe if you 258 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 1: had your your full brain operating exactly exactly. So what's 259 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 1: your take on the dog trainer that Lizzie did a 260 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 1: hell of a job on her. She did a job 261 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 1: on her, and it's the halo effect. It's with Lizzie Molder. 262 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 1: People saw a successful woman, successful with money. They believe 263 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 1: she was a c p A. No one questioned her, 264 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 1: she lived in a beautiful home, had nice cars, and 265 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 1: they had the halo effect about her. In fact, she 266 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 1: was a psychopath con woman. It's it all boils down 267 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 1: to trust. I dog trainer judged Lizzie to be a 268 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 1: good and wonderful and successful and nice person, and she's 269 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 1: hanging onto that despite overwhelming evidence and proof. It all 270 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: boils down to I see what I want to see, 271 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 1: and I know what I want to know, and I 272 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 1: don't want to know bad things about Lizzie. And that's 273 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 1: that go away to me. She's like Lizzie. Well, it 274 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 1: might be, or it simply could be. She's married to 275 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:38,640 Speaker 1: her ideas, she's married to her beliefs. Jonathan, what we're 276 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 1: talking about could boil down to we like to believe 277 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 1: we are good judges of character, and this happens. Let's 278 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 1: say someone is arrested for molesting a child. Maybe it's 279 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:54,400 Speaker 1: a coach. Turns out he's been arrested for molesting a 280 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:59,119 Speaker 1: twelve year old boy, and maybe other parents come forward 281 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 1: to go, I think there's happened to my child. My 282 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:05,959 Speaker 1: child said had happened to him. There is initially, especially 283 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 1: in cases. I'm not talking about a stranger coming into 284 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:11,200 Speaker 1: a nice neighborhood and grabbing a kid. I'm talking about 285 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:14,440 Speaker 1: somebody who lives in the neighborhood, is part of the community, 286 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:18,120 Speaker 1: and is trusted by parents to be with their children, 287 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 1: and then something like this happens. People circle the wagons 288 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:27,440 Speaker 1: to protect the accused. Nope, I couldn't have done it. 289 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:31,120 Speaker 1: Couldn't have done it because to accept that they were 290 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:38,879 Speaker 1: so wrong to trust that person with their child is painful. 291 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 1: It shakes their world, and it's really easier to go no, no, 292 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:46,400 Speaker 1: I think the kid's lying. It's a witch on it's 293 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 1: this at that. And to deal with these kinds of criminals, 294 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 1: whether it be a child molester or a con artist, 295 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:57,120 Speaker 1: we have to accept, Hey, we're human, and if you're 296 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:00,440 Speaker 1: a trusting person, that's not a criminal, which for aginately 297 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:04,880 Speaker 1: most of us are not criminals. These things happen. Misjudging 298 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 1: someone's intent, it happens. You know, what's brilliant about you. 299 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: You completely changed my mind, just really you did, because 300 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 1: I was convinced this dog trainer is in on it, 301 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 1: when really that example illustrates perfectly how strong people don't 302 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:27,920 Speaker 1: want to believe that they were wrong because they played 303 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:30,439 Speaker 1: a role in hurting someone. Plus and I think the 304 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:34,680 Speaker 1: stronger thing is they have to accept that they made 305 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 1: a mistake, their judgment was inaccurate. I think that's the 306 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 1: dog trainer. She doesn't want to believe it. I hope 307 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:46,439 Speaker 1: she never gets victimized. It's human nature. Really, you just 308 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:49,480 Speaker 1: don't want to believe bad things about the people you love, 309 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 1: the people you trust, the people you stick up for, and, 310 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:58,160 Speaker 1: as Detective Morackian points out, the people you have stuff 311 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:04,879 Speaker 1: in common with. Lizzie likes to rehabilitate horses and the 312 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:09,920 Speaker 1: dog trainer likes to train and to some extent, rehabilitate dogs, 313 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: so they have a commonality which is not unlike any 314 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:19,200 Speaker 1: of the cons that Lizzie accomplished. Like every single person 315 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 1: that Lizzie scammed out of money, she found a commonality 316 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: with them to make them feel like Lizzie was a 317 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:30,879 Speaker 1: part of their family or at least a very close 318 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:35,479 Speaker 1: personal friend and not a business associate. I have a 319 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:41,440 Speaker 1: little bit of background with people who love animals. They're 320 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 1: very tight knit community. And my personal opinion on it 321 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: is that Lizzie charmed her way in the Dog Trainer's 322 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:52,640 Speaker 1: life with her love for animals. It's kind of one 323 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:54,919 Speaker 1: of those things where they all stick together, kind of 324 00:20:54,920 --> 00:21:01,120 Speaker 1: like cops stick together. You know. Yeah, that makes sense, thankfully, though, 325 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:05,120 Speaker 1: once the elaborate cons of Lizzie Maulder start going public, 326 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 1: ardent supporters of Lizzie, like the Dog Trainer are in 327 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: the minority. She came to my wedding and my baby shower. Yea. 328 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:18,440 Speaker 1: Jen Rodriguez is a forensic accountant that a company called 329 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 1: with him. She's whipped smart, with long brown hair and 330 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 1: a hopeful glint in her eye. She exudes kindness and 331 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 1: a perpetual curiosity about everything. She's actually good friends with 332 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 1: Lizzie Malder before she finds out Lizzie's a con artist. 333 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: But looking back, Jan realizes it was far from a 334 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:43,320 Speaker 1: healthy friendship. She was the personality that was the one upper. 335 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:46,680 Speaker 1: Everybody has that friend, right you say, oh my gosh, 336 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 1: I got this new car. It's really great. Oh that car, Well, 337 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:54,439 Speaker 1: I just bought this car. She always was a one upper. 338 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:59,159 Speaker 1: Oh John, I'm so sorry you rent. Oh yeah, she 339 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:10,160 Speaker 1: would say that. Often. Jen's friendship with Lizzie starts, like 340 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 1: a lot of friendships do, on the job. I worked 341 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 1: at a place that she was doing a counting, and 342 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,919 Speaker 1: that's how I first met her. They're both working for 343 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 1: a website selling luxury experiences. Ironically, we actually had many 344 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:30,200 Speaker 1: other crossings before even that that we put together after 345 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: the fact. For example, her uncle actually sang at my 346 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 1: grandparents's wedding, believe it or not, yet her uncle sang 347 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 1: at your grandparents wedding wedding, so like a long time ago, 348 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:45,440 Speaker 1: like a long time ago. And I even danced with 349 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 1: her uncle because her uncle was a Armenian musician and 350 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 1: I did belly dancing and belly dancing back in the day, 351 00:22:54,119 --> 00:23:02,680 Speaker 1: belly dancing Forensic account. There's a show here that a second. 352 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 1: But when Jen first meets Lizzie in they're working for 353 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 1: the same company, f y I. It's a different company 354 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 1: than where Jen's working now. She would come to the 355 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:19,200 Speaker 1: office just like very sporadically, you know, for year in 356 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 1: taxes or things that were going on at the time. 357 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 1: My boss was married, so she also handled their personal taxes, 358 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 1: so she would interact with my boss's husband, and I 359 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:32,119 Speaker 1: really thought she was just over the top, like oh, 360 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 1: like literally I had a sentence for her, oh Lizzie, 361 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 1: because she would say things and do things that you 362 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 1: would think, wait what and oh Lizzie. You know that 363 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:45,879 Speaker 1: that was kind of my thought for her, and because 364 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 1: she would say things so out of the blue, almost 365 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,160 Speaker 1: as if she didn't have filters. And then I struggle 366 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 1: with that too, so I get it. So I just 367 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 1: kind of had compassion and just would be like, oh, Lizzy. 368 00:23:56,280 --> 00:24:00,680 Speaker 1: But she was good, garious. She was very um, outspoken 369 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 1: and direct, and to be honest, I quite appreciated that. 370 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:06,719 Speaker 1: That's something I quite liked about her, was that she 371 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:10,399 Speaker 1: seemed to be very direct and upfront and to the point. 372 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,520 Speaker 1: It's amazing you say that. I had the exact same 373 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 1: feeling when I met Mayor. She seemed like a woman 374 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,879 Speaker 1: who told it like it is. We didn't have a filter, 375 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:22,199 Speaker 1: and living in l a where everyone's fake, it was 376 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 1: so refreshing to see someone so quote honest. Yes, but 377 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:28,640 Speaker 1: now in retrospect, we both have learned the hard way 378 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 1: that wasn't honesty that was a con well, and probably 379 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:36,679 Speaker 1: the real truth of it was some of it was honest, 380 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:41,560 Speaker 1: and that's what makes it so believable. Yes, that's our 381 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:45,360 Speaker 1: biggest fall was because you would hear things and as 382 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 1: the story unfolded, you would get one nugget of truth, 383 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,679 Speaker 1: but then you would rationalize the things that didn't add up. 384 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:57,280 Speaker 1: I mean I trusted things that she said, like damning 385 00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,359 Speaker 1: things about colleagues and people I work with, people that 386 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 1: are now my closest friends. So she was telling you 387 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: crap about other people what to keep you away from 388 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: them or keep you disliking them, I think, to keep 389 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: us autonomous. Yeah, so that way, there weren't checks and balances, 390 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 1: you know, as in a forensic accountant. Now, I know 391 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:19,200 Speaker 1: the number one thing is you always have checks and balances, right, 392 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:24,640 Speaker 1: like internal controls. But she drove in between those internal controls. 393 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 1: She interrupted them because she acted as a control. And 394 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,359 Speaker 1: that's a classic contact name. That's what Merri Smith did 395 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:34,879 Speaker 1: to me. She kept me separate from people by telling 396 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 1: me my neighbors or murderers wanted in Canada, so I 397 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 1: avoided them. Meanwhile, she's scamming them, She's scamming me and 398 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 1: we're avoiding God like so awful to write like they're murderers. 399 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:47,400 Speaker 1: But but Lizzie did the same thing to you, told 400 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:51,960 Speaker 1: you lies about friends and colleagues to keep you separated, right, Yeah, 401 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:58,120 Speaker 1: there is a technique to these people. There was one 402 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 1: party that we went to, my husband and I. We 403 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:06,680 Speaker 1: went with her, and she was so socially awkward. It 404 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 1: was very interesting, and I was actually right before things 405 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 1: really started unfolding. It was kind of like you know 406 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:14,440 Speaker 1: when you're picking up the crumb pieces and you look 407 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 1: back and you're like, wow, how did I not see 408 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,160 Speaker 1: that before? And there was a party at dinner party 409 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,160 Speaker 1: that she had before we knew anything that happened, And 410 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:28,119 Speaker 1: she was so over the top, trying to be cool 411 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 1: and trying to be fun, and she was taking shots 412 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 1: and making a big deal that she couldn't swallow jello shots. 413 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:39,719 Speaker 1: It was just very high school, like somebody that hadn't 414 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:43,680 Speaker 1: really evolved and matured and grew up and went through 415 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:54,280 Speaker 1: that in high school. Were you ever suspicious of Lizzie Mulder, 416 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,359 Speaker 1: Like before everyone figured out she's a con artist and 417 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 1: she stole all this money from all these people, there 418 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 1: were things that didn't add up but I fell into 419 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 1: that trap that it was you can justify it, you know, like, oh, well, 420 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 1: maybe she's just really stressed out, or maybe she has 421 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:11,959 Speaker 1: a lot of going on, or maybe I just misread that. 422 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 1: My husband, on the other hand, knew from the get go. 423 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 1: The minute he met her, he knew something. Was that 424 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:21,720 Speaker 1: what gave her away in his eyes, what was she saying? 425 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:24,919 Speaker 1: Her arrogance was here that again and again she was 426 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:30,200 Speaker 1: very arrogant. She was always telling you how great she was. Yes, yes, yes, 427 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:34,960 Speaker 1: she was better than everybody. And something about that rubbed 428 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 1: him the wrong way. And in the end crack started 429 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 1: really showing up. But she always had an answer for them. 430 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,720 Speaker 1: She could explain it. So if something didn't add up 431 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 1: at the time, my counterpart that's based out of state, 432 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 1: she blamed a lot of the things that were coming 433 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: up on her and so I would have never thought 434 00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:58,639 Speaker 1: to put it that she was lying to me or 435 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 1: putting it on this person. And I just thought, man, 436 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 1: this person sucks at their job, which ironically she's the 437 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 1: polar opposite of that. She's amazing at her job. But 438 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:13,240 Speaker 1: Lizzie had built up this persona that I believed was 439 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:19,919 Speaker 1: this person, and then probably about three weeks before everything 440 00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:25,439 Speaker 1: really started coming out. I caught her in some big lies, 441 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,240 Speaker 1: and that one I couldn't justify. And one of them 442 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 1: was a really big lie. And I couldn't even talk 443 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:39,040 Speaker 1: for a whole night because there was no justification. The 444 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,400 Speaker 1: only justification was that she was doing something really wrong. 445 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 1: And what was that lie? So we use a program, 446 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 1: like a lot of companies, a CRM program, and it 447 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 1: was Salesforce at the time, and it was like a 448 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:56,479 Speaker 1: five thousand dollar subscription that you pay annually. But if 449 00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 1: you don't pay on time, you know, they shut down 450 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 1: your database, so you lose everything. So my reps are down, 451 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 1: everybody's down. And I had told her, Lizzy, you need 452 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:09,760 Speaker 1: to pay this bill. There I'm shut down. And she 453 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:11,480 Speaker 1: had told me, I'm on the phone right now with 454 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 1: a guy. Well, I was on the phone with the 455 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 1: guy and and she had said that she was paying 456 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:21,920 Speaker 1: with I can't remember now if it was that she 457 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 1: was paying with a credit card or with the check, 458 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,320 Speaker 1: I can't remember. Whatever it was that she said she 459 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 1: was paying with, they don't take that. And the guy's like, Nope, 460 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 1: that could have never happened. Nope, she's not on the 461 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 1: phone with anyone. So she was texting me blow by blow, 462 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:39,160 Speaker 1: but I was on the phone with Salesforce and there 463 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 1: was just no So you knew every single text at 464 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 1: that point was a lot lie m h. Yeah. So 465 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:53,320 Speaker 1: at this stage in the game, Lizzie Mulder scams dollars 466 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 1: from print shop owner Mike Cochrane and his parents, while 467 00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 1: she's scamming two five thou dollars from Jay Avery and 468 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 1: Jack Wines, while she's also scamming two from Geneva Mendoza's 469 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:12,640 Speaker 1: Newport Beach salon. But Lizzie's biggest swindle by far actually 470 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:17,080 Speaker 1: comes out of Jen's bosses pocketbook. How much money did 471 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 1: your boss end up losing? Millions? Next time on Queen 472 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 1: of the Con The o C Savior, It's sometimes I 473 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,960 Speaker 1: feel like a bad mom because I opened my family up, 474 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 1: and you know, I kind of invited the devil into 475 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 1: the den, and dealing with the devil causes Jen Rodriguez 476 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:43,480 Speaker 1: to take matters into her own hands. I happen to 477 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 1: have a stack of her meal and I ripped open 478 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 1: a big statement right then and there, and I literally 479 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 1: almost vomited, like vomited. But Lizzie has a plausible explanation 480 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:58,760 Speaker 1: for everything. My boss would never listen if I would say, hey, 481 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 1: this doesn't quite make sense. One of the things Lizzie 482 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 1: was famous for is in a roundabout way, making people 483 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:10,240 Speaker 1: feel stupid, and Lizzie kind of browbeats people into Hey, 484 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 1: you you stay in your lane. And that's how Lizzie operates. 485 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 1: Queen of the con The O C Savior is a 486 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 1: production of a y R Media and I Heart Media, 487 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:32,800 Speaker 1: hosted by Me Jonathan Walton, executive producers Jonathan Walton for 488 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:37,600 Speaker 1: Jonathan Walton Productions and Eliza Rosen for a y R Media. 489 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:44,680 Speaker 1: Written by Jonathan Walton, Consulting producer Evan Goldstein, Senior Associate 490 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 1: producer Eric Newman. Sound design by baked ZD Media, mixed 491 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 1: and mastered by Cameron Taggy, Sound editing, audio and studio 492 00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:59,960 Speaker 1: engineering by Matt Jacobson. Legal counsel for A y R Media, 493 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:05,800 Speaker 1: uh Jihanni Douglas, Executive producer for iHeartMedia, Maya Howard