Speaker 1: All right, so let's be honest, the vaccine fact in
Speaker 1: fiction classic episode probably ruffled a little feathers, probably bagged
Speaker 1: a few badgers.
Speaker 2: There.
Speaker 1: We're going to return to you, fellow conspiracy realist, with
Speaker 1: a non vaccine thing classic episode we call Project seventeen
Speaker 1: ninety four. Do you guys remember this?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 3: For sure. It's a perfect material for a classic, for
Speaker 3: it is a classic stuff they don't want you to
Speaker 3: know type of topic, the iconic genre of UFOs.
Speaker 2: I'm looking at the final development report now, guys that
Speaker 2: we looked at back in the day, and.
Speaker 3: Yeah, whoo this it was awesome.
Speaker 1: Can we build our own flying saucer? The US government has, like,
Speaker 1: imagine the weirdest relative you have right in your family,
Speaker 1: the weirdest person on your street, whatever it's me and
Speaker 1: both of those situations that early oval just eccentric, all right,
Speaker 1: the weirdest other folks. As you're imagining the weirdest one
Speaker 1: other than you, imagine that person at trillions of dollars
Speaker 1: and just loved the good elevator. Pitch oh uncle, elon, Yeah,
Speaker 1: are you tired of not having your own flying saucer?
Speaker 2: Dog? Wait, is this the avrocar or is this a
Speaker 2: different thing?
Speaker 1: I think we get we have to mention the avrocar
Speaker 1: at some point.
Speaker 3: Okay, well, let's find out.
Speaker 4: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is
Speaker 4: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
Speaker 4: learn this stuff they don't want you to know.
Speaker 1: A production of iHeart Radios How Stuff Works.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my
Speaker 2: name is Noman.
Speaker 1: They call me Ben Weird Away to as always with
Speaker 1: our super producer Paul Mission control decad. Most importantly, you
Speaker 1: are you. You are here, and that makes this stuff
Speaker 1: they don't want you to know. We've been doing a
Speaker 1: lot of our shows recently with a check in at
Speaker 1: the beginning to make sure we're all in a cool
Speaker 1: or at least tolerable place given the heat outside. So U, Matt,
Speaker 1: how's it. How's it going?
Speaker 2: It's going really well. We're coming right off of Father's Day.
Speaker 2: I got to spend some time with my son yesterday.
Speaker 2: In fact, it was wonderful. We went to a waterfall
Speaker 2: that's nearby.
Speaker 1: It's just it was awesome and a happy Father's Day
Speaker 1: to both of you. Belated Well, thank you, Sarah. Sure
Speaker 1: uh Noel, how about you.
Speaker 3: It's good. I went and visited my mom and she
Speaker 3: made me a Father's Day dinner lego lamb, which fas
Speaker 3: it is, and a little bit of what do we
Speaker 3: have on the side, Oh was some stuffed mushrooms, also
Speaker 3: a favorite. And then I got to take my kid
Speaker 3: to Oh actually, I went and got a manicure and
Speaker 3: a pedicure, and then I got upsold into getting my
Speaker 3: eyebrows waxed.
Speaker 1: That's how it works.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's kind of a bummer because the pedicure feels
Speaker 3: so good and then the eyebrow waxing really hurts, so
Speaker 3: it sort of negated the good feels of the pedicure.
Speaker 2: You know, honest, I have this thing with my feet
Speaker 2: and if anyone ever tried to do anything to my
Speaker 2: feet like that, like dude, I.
Speaker 3: Would kick them in the face.
Speaker 2: I would yeah, attack, Yeah, I would have to.
Speaker 3: Just a part where they take this cheese greater thing
Speaker 3: and just like rub it in the middles of your feet,
Speaker 3: and I have to bite my lip really hard to
Speaker 3: keep from like losing it.
Speaker 2: God.
Speaker 1: So we also in an update behind the curtain here,
Speaker 1: we'd like to welcome one of our newest producers to
Speaker 1: the universe of this show, Maya Cole, thanks for coming
Speaker 1: listening in. Gotta gotta woo there that you can't hear
Speaker 1: outside of the studio. Let's also check in with mission control.
Speaker 1: How you do a man thumbs up? Thumbs down? Okay,
Speaker 1: I thought it was a sideway thumb it was. For
Speaker 1: a second, it was middling to good. We're gonna call
Speaker 1: that seventy five percent.
Speaker 3: How about you, mister Bolen.
Speaker 1: Thanks for asking. Men, so we also no kidding. Uh yeah,
Speaker 1: things are happening.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: I've been traveling some more, probably have some more travel
Speaker 1: in the future.
Speaker 3: And I've been out of this this particular realm, this
Speaker 3: particular astral plane. Really just gonna give me the demon
Speaker 3: laugh and move on.
Speaker 2: By the way, did you did you listen to the
Speaker 2: recent voicemail episode?
Speaker 1: Did I?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Okay, all right, Well sorry guys, he hasn't heard
Speaker 2: the Oh that's okay, don't worry about it.
Speaker 3: Check it out.
Speaker 2: It's fine.
Speaker 1: I should listen to it.
Speaker 3: I should we go into a little bit of your lore?
Speaker 1: Oh boy, any anything I need to be aware of you?
Speaker 3: You really all knowing all samee? I have on type
Speaker 3: of individuals, what you want.
Speaker 1: Oh man, that's that's too that is too kind. I
Speaker 1: listened to one of the voicemail episodes and Matt Knowle
Speaker 1: that you did way back, is it over a year
Speaker 1: now ago?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 3: Exactly?
Speaker 1: Yeah? And that was really that was really good and
Speaker 1: people really seem to enjoy it. So yeah, I'm sorry, apologize,
Speaker 1: I'll listen to it.
Speaker 2: Just just know that you were still included.
Speaker 1: That's very god, thank you so much. And if you
Speaker 1: want to be included in today's show, you do not
Speaker 1: have to wait until the show is over. You can
Speaker 1: simply pause and call us directly with your thoughts, your opinions,
Speaker 1: your hot takes. As they say in the late night shows.
Speaker 1: Just keep it around three minutes or be ready to
Speaker 1: call back and say and another thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean a hot take should technically be like
Speaker 3: a verbal tweet kind of thing. So three minutes should
Speaker 3: be plenty for a hot take.
Speaker 1: Yeah, then you're getting into rant territories Dennis Miller style.
Speaker 3: Although we like a good ram as well.
Speaker 2: Sometimes you know, you get stuck just applying Marty Garras
Speaker 2: beads to a basket and you're just like, you know,
Speaker 2: I need to call like three or four more times.
Speaker 2: Just trust me, it happens.
Speaker 3: Some it happens.
Speaker 1: See. So what's that number for anyone who wants to call.
Speaker 2: It's one eight three three s WYTK.
Speaker 3: So you can't did like that.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, we're ritualizing, so go ahead and drop us
Speaker 1: a line. Today we are returning to the world of
Speaker 1: unidentified flying objects. Specifically, we're exploring the story of flying saucers,
Speaker 1: not UFOs in general. Mind you, actual flying saucers. For decades,
Speaker 1: these were some of the most widely reported mysterious aerial
Speaker 1: phenomena in the Western world. Even today, when you hear
Speaker 1: someone say the word alien or extraterrestrial or UFO, most
Speaker 1: people will immediately conjure up an image of a flying saucer, right,
Speaker 1: you know, you got the whole nine, got the little uh,
Speaker 1: the then secure pin, yeah, you got the cockpit at
Speaker 1: the top, maybe glass dome. And then of course it's
Speaker 1: always shooting a tractor beam down over a cow and
Speaker 1: an abandoned field at night somewhere turning.
Speaker 2: Yes, I always have the Mars Attacks version in my head.
Speaker 3: Because that's the classic trophy version. Like Timbert was obsessed
Speaker 3: with those kind of old comic representations of that kind
Speaker 3: of imagery, the Martians themselves with the big dome, you know,
Speaker 3: head things and all of that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Mars attacks. I'm gonna say I still enjoy it. Oh,
Speaker 1: I do too, im mensely. It's a great documentary. Right, So,
Speaker 1: but what are these things flying saucers? They've been described
Speaker 1: as a widely misidentified mundane phenomenon. They've been described as
Speaker 1: little more than collective hysteria.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: Our question today is are they real? And to answer
Speaker 1: that question we have to start from the beginning. So
Speaker 1: here are the facts. Why do we call them flying saucers.
Speaker 1: It's not like anyone nowadays, at least in the US
Speaker 1: or Canada, uses the phrase saucer to describe the actual
Speaker 1: little plate upon which one would place a cup or
Speaker 1: a mug.
Speaker 3: What would you call it?
Speaker 1: What would I would I call that a little plate?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 1: All the way I really clip the tea's I say,
Speaker 1: little plate or little cup?
Speaker 3: You have very good diction.
Speaker 2: Then I would be interested to know if any of
Speaker 2: our British listeners, or anyone out in the UK or
Speaker 2: around that area still uses the phrase saucer.
Speaker 3: No, they definitely do. Think about a saucer of milk
Speaker 3: for a cat. It's certainly in the in the vernacular, that's.
Speaker 1: Those are the only two freezes. I hear it in though,
Speaker 1: fine saucer or saucer of milk is the other one.
Speaker 3: Cup and saucer they call it. It's like, it's like
Speaker 3: it's a set. They come together. It's the cup and
Speaker 3: then the saucer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but are people walking around talking about it though?
Speaker 3: And saucer? Well, why you don't know. You don't pass
Speaker 3: the saucer because you're passing the cup and it's on
Speaker 3: the saucer.
Speaker 1: But if someone's like, if someone's like, no, that's the thing.
Speaker 1: No one addresses it as a singular entity.
Speaker 3: You don't.
Speaker 1: You don't hear the word saucer floating around without being
Speaker 1: attached to a cup, an alien, or a cat.
Speaker 3: It's basically a glorified drip pan. It's it's made to
Speaker 3: catch the drippings from your tea. So presumably, if you're
Speaker 3: not a total slob, you don't even need a saucer.
Speaker 1: There you go, I did what doesn't it depend on
Speaker 1: the temptate? Okay, this is maybe a different show, but
Speaker 1: we call these things flying saucers because of oddly enough,
Speaker 1: skeet shooting.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Back in eighteen ninety or so ever since then, flying
Speaker 1: saucer was used to describe one of those clay pigeons
Speaker 1: that they shoot off and you know, fire at and
Speaker 1: then you high five each other when you hit one,
Speaker 1: and that resembles a saucer, a classic UFO shape.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because the little device that they would we either
Speaker 3: someone would throw the manuallyer. I think as technology advanced,
Speaker 3: they would have little machines that would like you know,
Speaker 3: hold them or like with a little arm and kind
Speaker 3: of lob them. They'd go thoop, they'd go foop and
Speaker 3: then smash right, Yeah, But it's because they're of a
Speaker 3: shape that allows them to be thrown with a nice
Speaker 3: directional velocity.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, like a frisbee.
Speaker 2: There you go.
Speaker 1: So for years and years and years and years, this
Speaker 1: was a term that was kind of slaying in the
Speaker 1: world of clay and shooting. But this phrase did not
Speaker 1: describe UFOs until nineteen thirty and it didn't become popularized
Speaker 1: until nineteen forty seven. In June twenty fourth of nineteen
Speaker 1: forty seven, a guy named Kenneth Arnold had this highly
Speaker 1: publicized UFO sighting, and it resulted in the popularization of
Speaker 1: the term flying saucer in US newspapers and then later
Speaker 1: the anglosphere and then later the world overall. So what
Speaker 1: happened what made Kenneth Arnold go viral? Or at least
Speaker 1: what did he see?
Speaker 3: So what Arnold said was he claimed to have encountered
Speaker 3: flashes of light and nine different objects flying in some
Speaker 3: sort of formation, occasionally flipping the way you might think
Speaker 3: of the drone behavior hovering. You know, there's those drones
Speaker 3: you can get that'll flip upside down like that or
Speaker 3: do like a three sixty loop or whatever like that
Speaker 3: without moving very far. So he followed them and found
Speaker 3: that they were traveling at incredibly high speed and consisted
Speaker 3: of various shapes each. They were not identical, they were
Speaker 3: not uniform. Eventually he lost track of them, and he
Speaker 3: landed sharing his experience and word spread and his account,
Speaker 3: to use the kind of internet parlance, went viral.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was as popular for a time as a
Speaker 1: cat meme is today. So in these interviews with the press,
Speaker 1: I like the point you're raising about the shapes being varied.
Speaker 1: He described them a couple of different ways, and a
Speaker 1: couple of different interviews. One he called a pie plate
Speaker 1: and when he said oval in the front convects in
Speaker 1: the rear. And what this means is that some editor
Speaker 1: has lost to history now. And part of the reason
Speaker 1: this story gained so much public traction is because Arnold
Speaker 1: was a pilot, you know what I mean, he was
Speaker 1: a credible source at the time, right, And still a
Speaker 1: pilot is more credible than someone on the ground in
Speaker 1: a lot of ways because they have simply more experience.
Speaker 3: Yeah, to mention, like, yet it's it's pretty hard to
Speaker 3: competently pilot a plane if you're either mentally unstable or
Speaker 3: under the influence of some kind of drugs or alcohol.
Speaker 3: Typically frowned upon in the piloting community.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, And the.
Speaker 2: Biggest thing is just having an understanding of how aircraft function. Right,
Speaker 2: That's true, that that's the biggest thing when when you
Speaker 2: have a pilot, say, these things were flipping around or
Speaker 2: doing this weird thing, and they were oval shaped and oblong,
Speaker 2: it was really strange. But then he goes on in
Speaker 2: further interviews to like describe them even more differently.
Speaker 1: Right, right, oval in the front and convex in the rear,
Speaker 1: So it just like in the back in UFO parlance. Yeah, probably,
Speaker 1: it really depends on whether you're an oval or a
Speaker 1: convex guy.
Speaker 3: You know, that's a good point.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 1: He described something as a pie plate, and then later
Speaker 1: his story changes again. He describes one of the objects
Speaker 1: as a crescent or flying wing, some as a big
Speaker 1: flat disc, some as simply saucer like. And that's where
Speaker 1: we hit on the etymology here, because while Arnold is
Speaker 1: associated with this term, it was probably some editor lost
Speaker 1: to history who's responsible for calling it a flying saucer.
Speaker 1: And for a little while there was kind of a
Speaker 1: pepsi coke thing going on with flying disc versus flying saucer,
Speaker 1: but flying saucer clearly won out, and we still use
Speaker 1: the phrase today sort of, yeah.
Speaker 2: A little bit, but the phrase has kind of gone
Speaker 2: away or at least been supplanted quite a bit. By this.
Speaker 2: We're gonna call it a government created term because that's
Speaker 2: what it is. Unidentified flying object or UFO.
Speaker 3: Or UFO as I like to say, and no one
Speaker 3: else does.
Speaker 1: Yes, and these these aren't aliens necessarily, they're not extraterrestrials.
Speaker 1: They're just something in the sky that people cannot identify.
Speaker 1: Look up in the sky, it's bird played, it's Superman,
Speaker 1: it's a weather blue. I don't know, I guess it's unidentified.
Speaker 2: Well, and we're gonna we're gonna continue to use the
Speaker 2: term UFO here in this episode, but it should be noted,
Speaker 2: as we noted not that long ago in an episode,
Speaker 2: the military has now changed that as they like to
Speaker 2: change their phrasing over time, to unidentified aerial vehicle.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, a UAV.
Speaker 3: I mean it's also sort of like that. They might
Speaker 3: call something like that. The something comes up on the radar,
Speaker 3: they call it a bogie or whatever, But that's sort
Speaker 3: of if it's something they don't know the origin of,
Speaker 3: they can't have eyes on it directly, then that could
Speaker 3: be considered one of these as well, unidentified aerial vehicle.
Speaker 1: That's the problem with the acronym though, there must be
Speaker 1: some of the initialism. There must be something missing, because
Speaker 1: unmanned aerial vehicle is also UAV.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there you go, or maybe I'm incorrect. I know
Speaker 2: it's something similar.
Speaker 1: To that, but yeah, I mean Uncle Sam. Governments in
Speaker 1: general big fans of abbreviations and initialisms. Today, flying saucers,
Speaker 1: not just the phrase the thing has become this genre
Speaker 1: of overall UFO sightings, and when you look at the
Speaker 1: world of fiction, flying saucers still by far they're running
Speaker 1: the game. You know, the problem is they're not represented
Speaker 1: in a serious way. Mars Attacks spoiler alert is not,
Speaker 1: in fact a documentary. You can see them in things
Speaker 1: like sci fi series like The X Files, right, they'll
Speaker 1: use the flying saucer appearance. You'll see it depicted in
Speaker 1: a ton of nineteen fifties nineteen sixties fiction. You know,
Speaker 1: we're talking Outer Limits, Twilight Zone and so on. But
Speaker 1: what if there's more to the story. Is there any truth?
Speaker 1: Two tales of actual flying saucers, Not clouds that look
Speaker 1: like saucers, mind you, Not weird tricks of the light,
Speaker 1: no atmospheric high jinks or strange ionospheric interference, real genuine
Speaker 1: flying saucer. The answer is yes, there were real flying saucers,
Speaker 1: and we built them.
Speaker 2: Don't toy with my emotions, Ben, It's true, and we're
Speaker 2: gonna talk about the ones that at least we tried
Speaker 2: to contract out afterward from our sponsor.
Speaker 3: Here's where it gets crazy.
Speaker 1: Enter Projects seventeen ninety four and related to this, the
Speaker 1: Avro Canada VZ nine avrocar.
Speaker 2: Yes, let's talk about it. And before we get into that,
Speaker 2: I have to make a quick edit to what I
Speaker 2: said earlier. This is just everyone listening who said matt
Speaker 2: UAVs are a thing. Ben is absolutely right, and you
Speaker 2: are wrong. You are correct. It is. It's not even
Speaker 2: called unidentified aerieal something. It's called unexplained aerial phenomena. So
Speaker 2: that's you, ap yes, oh op, yeah, So apologies for
Speaker 2: everyone who was really frustrated before the break. Let's continue on.
Speaker 3: I think they were shaking their fists at their I
Speaker 3: hope someone caughtcast device.
Speaker 2: I know, I hope someone.
Speaker 1: Called and then they got done with their voicemail and
Speaker 1: they listened through to the rest of the podcast.
Speaker 2: It just goes to show you, like, there's so many
Speaker 2: things in my brain that I feel like I know
Speaker 2: things about, but I only have bits and pieces human
Speaker 2: condition my friends, But you know what I do know about?
Speaker 1: What do you know about?
Speaker 2: Because it's written down in this awesome outline that you
Speaker 2: created that it's the story of this guy named John
Speaker 2: Carver Meadows Frost and everybody you know his friends they
Speaker 2: call him Jack. He worked in the aerospace industry for
Speaker 2: quite a while, and in June of nineteen forty seven
Speaker 2: he started working for this Canadian company called Avro Canada AVR. Oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's right. And you know this dude's all about uh,
Speaker 2: you know, dreaming big.
Speaker 1: He's a big picture guy, that's right.
Speaker 2: And he would he or he like, did this thing
Speaker 2: that Avro called Blue Sky's Research. So like these are
Speaker 2: when we say big picture things, ideas that are so
Speaker 2: close to the edge of what science can do. They're
Speaker 2: they're overlapping or just beyond what is possible. And that's
Speaker 2: our boy, Jack nineteen forty seven, he's thinking on the edge.
Speaker 3: Jackie boy.
Speaker 1: That's right, Old Jack Frost himself. Yes, at Avro Canada,
Speaker 1: he had already worked on something called the Avro CF
Speaker 1: one hundred. This is a this is a craft that
Speaker 1: is innovative, but not wild wild style Blue Skies. Yes,
Speaker 1: Blue Sky's Research is stuff like in the world of aviation,
Speaker 1: an example of something that would be considered experimental would
Speaker 1: be the Howard Hughes design Spruce Goose, the largest plane
Speaker 1: in history that we know of geese. Yes, and if
Speaker 1: you look at pictures of that thing, it's it's enormous,
Speaker 1: it's it's impractical.
Speaker 3: I think it's a I've seen it before. I feel like,
Speaker 3: is it on display in like San Francisco. It's on
Speaker 3: the West coast right, Oh, you know what it's a
Speaker 3: it's actually the Evergreen Aviation Museum in McMinnville, Oregon.
Speaker 1: Interesting, nice, well done McMinnville. So you can look at
Speaker 1: pictures of this thing. It's built largely out of wood.
Speaker 1: He called it the H four Hercules. It has the
Speaker 1: name spruce Goose, which came about as an insult from
Speaker 1: a skeptical press. The world of brainstorming is high risk,
Speaker 1: high return, but this is the world that Jack wants
Speaker 1: to live in. So after he's been working on the
Speaker 1: AVROCF one hundred, he creates a research team called the
Speaker 1: Special Projects Group or SPG, and he at first surrounded
Speaker 1: himself with other people who thought like he did, out
Speaker 1: of the box. You know what I mean, mavericks. So
Speaker 1: this group SPG, Special Projects Group, was situated in their
Speaker 1: main administration building, but then they relocated it to an
Speaker 1: older structure across from the company headquarters and what was
Speaker 1: called the Shafer Building, and their security went through the roof.
Speaker 1: They had guards everywhere, lock doors, special unique pass cards.
Speaker 1: They started doing serious stuff, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: The days of hanging out in the conference room with
Speaker 1: a chalkboard were long gone.
Speaker 2: Nobody can see this chalkboard.
Speaker 1: Right right now. It's all secret chalk. Disappearing chalk?
Speaker 3: Is that a thing?
Speaker 1: They guess all chalk is disappearing theft eraser. So the
Speaker 1: SPG operated out of this experimental hangar and they shared
Speaker 1: space with other secretive AVRO project teams. Jack was personally fascinated,
Speaker 1: along with a lot of other people, by something called
Speaker 1: vertical takeoff and landing vehicles also known as VTOL because
Speaker 1: are pretty cool.
Speaker 2: Can you say vitol or we need to say vitole
Speaker 2: I like Vito vitall craft.
Speaker 1: Right there might be somebody named Vitold listening now, and
Speaker 1: if you are, you know hello.
Speaker 2: So for a VTOL aircraft, really think about a helicopter,
Speaker 2: especially when you're thinking about taking off and landing, something
Speaker 2: that vertically goes up and goes out and then can
Speaker 2: come back and go down and you can get out
Speaker 2: of the thing. And you know, for these aircraft, the
Speaker 2: specific ones that Jack is interested in, it's having that
Speaker 2: ability to take off vertically but then fly around like
Speaker 2: an airplane. Wood or jet should then come right back
Speaker 2: and then go back down.
Speaker 3: Like the X Men jet.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right with that has the rotating turbines, right, which
Speaker 1: is a really cool feature, kind of like an osprey
Speaker 1: I believe the craft are called.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So in the nineteen fifties, the US Air Force was
Speaker 1: worried about the vulnerability of their bases because of a
Speaker 1: couple of limiting factors of conventional aircraft.
Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, and then this is something we should talk
Speaker 2: about that Ben and I were talking about offline here.
Speaker 2: In nineteen forty seven is when the US Air Force
Speaker 2: splits off or is officially split off from the army
Speaker 2: from just as a separate military unit. And you know,
Speaker 2: this is at this point post World War Two. But
Speaker 2: they've got these bases that are all over the planet.
Speaker 2: At this point, they're pretty isolated, and the Air Force
Speaker 2: around this time in the nineteen fifties, they're really worried
Speaker 2: that these bases are just gonna get destroyed because if
Speaker 2: you imagine looking at one of these bases overhead, like
Speaker 2: Google mapsing it or Google earthing it back in let's
Speaker 2: say nineteen fifty four, you're just gonna see several huge
Speaker 2: runways and then a bunch of extremely high value targets
Speaker 2: just clustered around these runways.
Speaker 1: Eggs in a single basket exactly.
Speaker 2: And that's aircraft, of course, just sitting around the runways.
Speaker 2: So they wanted to find a way to reduce either
Speaker 2: the length and thickness of their runways, so it's not
Speaker 2: such a like if you're flying overhead or a nearby
Speaker 2: in an enemy vehicle. You can't just go, oh, hey,
Speaker 2: look that's a military base, and we can wreak havoc
Speaker 2: on their offensive and defensive capabilities if we attack that thing.
Speaker 2: And they also wanted to well, so they wanted to
Speaker 2: either reduce them, make them smaller, or just get rid
Speaker 2: of them completely. So you could have basically a United
Speaker 2: States Air Force base in the middle of nowhere and
Speaker 2: it would be a little more hidden at least a bit.
Speaker 2: The other thing they wanted to do is find a
Speaker 2: way to deploy aircraft faster for both offensive and defensive capabilities.
Speaker 2: So if your base is being attacked, you can send
Speaker 2: you can send aircraft up that'll knock down all the
Speaker 2: other planes that are coming in to attack you, or
Speaker 2: you can send them off quicker to go attack nearby areas.
Speaker 2: So reducing scramble time exactly. That makes sense. And this
Speaker 2: the VTOL thing just what Jack is interested in. That
Speaker 2: was one of the proposed solutions.
Speaker 1: The thing is, this sort of experimentation is spoiler alert
Speaker 1: cartoonishly expensive. It's not uncommon, but it is expensive. And
Speaker 1: because often these are some of the first people trying
Speaker 1: to do this kind of thing ever, right, in any
Speaker 1: any kind of hardware prototyping, often they are prone to failure.
Speaker 1: And I don't mean like, oh good, lesson learn, I
Speaker 1: mean this is a disaster. These people are dead. Why
Speaker 1: did we lose millions of dollars on this?
Speaker 3: Remember that episode we did a ridiculous history Bend that
Speaker 3: was about failed military technology, and one of them was
Speaker 3: like a hoverboard kind of platform things. That was kind
Speaker 3: of part of the technology for one of these vital jets, right,
Speaker 3: it was the part that lifts the thing up off
Speaker 3: the ground. But that was literally all these were. And
Speaker 3: you would control it sort of like a segue by
Speaker 3: like leaning into it or back or sideways, so you
Speaker 3: looked really say, and it was it was very unwieldy
Speaker 3: and heavy, and they weren't very good at like anything.
Speaker 3: The flying platform flying platforms like you know, it had
Speaker 3: this sci fi space vibe too, where like everyone's like
Speaker 3: zipping around on these little discs. Yeah, like flying saucers,
Speaker 3: but they just weren't very functional in a war situation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they were more they were more a rich person's toy,
Speaker 1: I think ultimately. But also like a segue, like when
Speaker 1: we think of when we think of these experiments, let's
Speaker 1: also remember things like bat bombs. Let's remember things like
Speaker 1: cyborg cats. That was a real thing. Rocket bullets, rocket bullets,
Speaker 1: all all sorts of stuff in this spy dolphins, spy dolphins,
Speaker 1: and that's not even getting into assassination attempts and equipment.
Speaker 1: So they know they're in again, a high risk, high
Speaker 1: reward situation. There's something else interesting that happens in society
Speaker 1: at this time. So flying saucers are experiencing what pr
Speaker 1: people here in twenty nineteen would call a moment. There
Speaker 1: was a pro liferation of sightings flying saucers in the
Speaker 1: West as a whole, but across the world, and there
Speaker 1: is serious concern, not just it's not just newspaper publishers
Speaker 1: trying to sell the next week's edition. It's not just
Speaker 1: fringe theorists anymore. There are members of the US military
Speaker 1: who are seriously anxious, concerned, terrified would be a fair word.
Speaker 1: That Soviet forces may have beaten them to the punch,
Speaker 1: creating their own top secret VTOL, in other words, creating
Speaker 1: their own flying saucers. So these folks at the higher
Speaker 1: echelons of the military and politics are essentially saying, what
Speaker 1: if all these flying saucer sightings are real? And what
Speaker 1: if they're you know, they're not spacemen or something, they're
Speaker 1: not aliens, they're you know, well they would probably say
Speaker 1: kamis or reds or something like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, so in the in late nineteen fifty three,
Speaker 2: a group of defense experts took a little visit to Avro,
Speaker 2: Canada to view this new thing that was called the
Speaker 2: CF one hundred fighter jet. Because you know, you don't
Speaker 2: just need crazy experimental things that might happen. You also
Speaker 2: need real fighter jets when you're the military.
Speaker 1: And that's what Yeah, the US Air Force is there
Speaker 1: just to see that jet. It's important to the story.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we'll tell you what happened on their visit
Speaker 2: after a word from our sponsor.
Speaker 1: And we're back. So midway through the tour or pal
Speaker 1: Jack Frost busts in and hijacks them. Essentially, he takes
Speaker 1: these visitors to the high security Special Projects area and
Speaker 1: he does a little show and tell. He gives them
Speaker 1: a look at a mock up of something he calls
Speaker 1: Project y Too. This is a completely circular disc shaped aircraft.
Speaker 3: Yes, it's right. And the USAF visitors were pretty impressed
Speaker 3: by what they saw. They took over funding for the
Speaker 3: Special Projects Group and gave seven hundred and fifty thousand
Speaker 3: American dollars in nineteen fifty five, which, if we inflation
Speaker 3: calculated that by today's standards, it's a little over seven
Speaker 3: million dollars.
Speaker 1: Pretty crazy, right.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm. And the next year AVRO decided to commit
Speaker 3: to and a half million nineteen fifty five dollars to
Speaker 3: build a prototype. So, as you said before, ben very
Speaker 3: expensive to do this kind of out of the box
Speaker 3: kind of thinking and research.
Speaker 1: Yeah yep.
Speaker 5: And they said the reward could be amazing, Yes, yes,
Speaker 5: could be, or it could be relegated to the scrap
Speaker 5: heap of history. It's it's marginally better than gambling.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what I mean. So this study encompassed
Speaker 1: a wide variety of possible designs, but they all revolved
Speaker 1: around this disc shape, this flying saucer shape, leading to
Speaker 1: something called Project seventeen ninety four. The goal was to
Speaker 1: build a supersonic large disc fighter aircraft jet that's also
Speaker 1: a circle.
Speaker 2: Basically, yeah, and again, think about this, a flying disc,
Speaker 2: a flying saucer then engages other aircraft in ground objects
Speaker 2: like how crazy is that?
Speaker 1: Again, this is a real thing at this point. So
Speaker 1: they eventually get to the level where they're doing what's
Speaker 1: called wind tunnel testing with scale models. So they're studying
Speaker 1: how these things move through the environment and what little
Speaker 1: tweaks or big changes they can make to make it
Speaker 1: less of a disaster.
Speaker 3: A wind tunnel simulating the conditions of high speed flight
Speaker 3: without actually having to reach those speeds.
Speaker 1: Absolutely nail on the head.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: They eventually decide that the reasonable estimate for this concept
Speaker 1: would result in a vehicle that can go mock three
Speaker 1: point five at one thousand foot altitudes or thirty thousand
Speaker 1: meters for the rest of the world. This led to
Speaker 1: something called the Avrocar, which is thing that you can
Speaker 1: see today if you want to travel to a museum
Speaker 1: and check it out. Highly recommended. Jack Frost built this
Speaker 1: kills me. This guy's name is Jack Frost. How many Joe?
Speaker 1: He must have been so cool. He built this as
Speaker 1: a two seer personal car kind of concept, so it's
Speaker 1: much smaller than what they were aiming to build seventeen
Speaker 1: ninety four. And it showed, you know, it meant to
Speaker 1: It was a proof of concept. It was meant to show, hey,
Speaker 1: these things can work. We can actually put people in them.
Speaker 1: They can take off, they can fly around, they can land.
Speaker 1: Everybody will be alive. We'll high five each other. Awesome,
Speaker 1: go us. And at the time, this was just a
Speaker 1: step toward their ultimate goal, the supersonic flying saucer. How
Speaker 1: do we know about this? How do we know this
Speaker 1: is real and not a story? No one really knew.
Speaker 1: No one officially knew about this until two thousand and twelve,
Speaker 1: when declassified documents showed the rumors were true, which happens
Speaker 1: all the time. How many people can you imagine who
Speaker 1: were engineers on their deathbed telling their kids, like, no,
Speaker 1: it's true, we kind of built flying saucers.
Speaker 3: Is there a statute limitations that allows things to be
Speaker 3: things to be declassified? Is it sort of like a
Speaker 3: copyright expiring or does someone just up high kind of
Speaker 3: have to say, you know what, I don't think it's
Speaker 3: a big deal anymore. People want to know. It'd probably
Speaker 3: be fun to let this out there. What do you
Speaker 3: think the protocol is fun? Not fun, but you know,
Speaker 3: fun for the people, you know, for the UFO nerds.
Speaker 3: You give them a little something to go on.
Speaker 2: I would just start I would start by saying, while
Speaker 2: I don't know the exact parameters of that timeframe, I
Speaker 2: do know that after a certain amount of time it
Speaker 2: comes up as it can be reviewed essentially to be declassified.
Speaker 1: Or it can be reclassified. At that point it is
Speaker 1: kind of like a kind of like a copyright. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's not a bad comparison, because there were things that
Speaker 1: came out recently regarding or there were things up for
Speaker 1: review excuse me, regarding the Kennedy assassination, some of which
Speaker 1: were released and some of which were reclassifies, right, and
Speaker 1: the problem is there. The criteria for that is is
Speaker 1: it fun?
Speaker 2: That's number one?
Speaker 1: That's the number one. Are we all having a good time?
Speaker 1: Number two is does this still pose a continued risk
Speaker 1: to national security or to people or sorry, the exposure
Speaker 1: of methods and technologies used to gain information or advantage,
Speaker 1: get an edge. Yeah, and that's that's such a woefully
Speaker 1: vague thing that happens all the time. What isn't national security?
Speaker 1: You could stretch that to anything totally.
Speaker 2: But because of this twenty twelve declassified documentation, we got
Speaker 2: to take a look for the first time at this
Speaker 2: memo that comes from nineteen fifty six. That really shows
Speaker 2: what the engineers there at Avro were attempting to build,
Speaker 2: like the thing they wanted the end goal to be.
Speaker 2: And it gets back to a saucer like view that
Speaker 2: was capable of reaching quote between Mack three and Mark four,
Speaker 2: a ceiling of over one hundred thousand feet, meaning it
Speaker 2: can climb all the way up to over or around
Speaker 2: over one hundred thousand feet and a maximum range with allowances.
Speaker 2: This is still the quote of about one thousand nautical.
Speaker 1: Miles incredible bowsers and that's you know, that's nineteen fifty
Speaker 1: six when the memo is written, So that is the
Speaker 1: same year that Avro itself gives that two point five
Speaker 1: million dollars in nineteen fifty six bucks as you said,
Speaker 1: nol to the project. As far as we can tell,
Speaker 1: this supersonic flying saucer it can's weird that this is
Speaker 1: a real thing. Would propel itself by rotating an outer
Speaker 1: disc at a very very high speed, and then maneuvering
Speaker 1: would be accomplished by using small shutters on the edge
Speaker 1: of the disc. It would be powered by jet turbines,
Speaker 1: so no secret technology there. And according to the cutaway
Speaker 1: diagrams you can see maybe four so digitized pictures of this.
Speaker 1: According to those cutaway diagrams, the entire thing would be
Speaker 1: able to take off and land vertically, so it would
Speaker 1: move in a way that closely resembled the movements reported
Speaker 1: of flying saucers.
Speaker 2: Can we just take a minute and look at this
Speaker 2: cutaway together, because it is dang fascinating, really cool. And
Speaker 2: there are some things that Ben and I were talking
Speaker 2: about off air before you came in. In particular, the
Speaker 2: cockpit area at the very center of this vehicle that
Speaker 2: Ben was describing is directly surrounded by four large rings
Speaker 2: of the fuel that runs the entire vehicle. So if
Speaker 2: you're sitting inside this thing, you're literally surrounded by all
Speaker 2: of the combustible stuff that is being.
Speaker 3: Used to run the Ooh, so if you take a
Speaker 3: direct hit, you're just like you're just you're toast.
Speaker 1: You're sacrificing, You're sacrificing durability for flexibility or would be
Speaker 1: a better word. Your main strategy is to not get hit.
Speaker 3: Well, it's like those U boats where they had the
Speaker 3: toilets mounted right above the batteries that ran the whole thing,
Speaker 3: So when the toilet's malfunction, it would like flood the
Speaker 3: batteries and cause all these problems. It's sort of like,
Speaker 3: you know, you take a hit on design in order
Speaker 3: to or you take a hit maybe on safety in
Speaker 3: order to like pack more features into a thing.
Speaker 1: It's just like a video game where you can choose
Speaker 1: characters that are faster than average but weaker, or you
Speaker 1: can choose characters that are absolute tanks but they're like slow.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, Well.
Speaker 2: Then let's just talk about this really fast, because I
Speaker 2: was fascinated by that design, and I am nowhere near
Speaker 2: an engineer or a physicist or anything like that. But
Speaker 2: you have to imagine the fuel tanks in a vehicle
Speaker 2: like this are going to be like fairly heavy at
Speaker 2: the beginning at takeoff, right when you're all fueled up.
Speaker 2: Then by the end of your mission, it's going to
Speaker 2: be the weight that the center of the vehicle is
Speaker 2: going to be significantly reduced.
Speaker 3: To change the handling. Probably right, Well, I mean.
Speaker 2: Because you're you know, literally the spinning disc part of
Speaker 2: this is what's giving you not fully propulsion, but it's
Speaker 2: what's stable standing the craft doing effect and keeping you
Speaker 2: in the air. The whole thing blows my mind, and
Speaker 2: I just want to hear from anybody out there listening
Speaker 2: that understands the physics of it a little better. Please
Speaker 2: please look at the Project seventeen ninety four documentation and
Speaker 2: let us.
Speaker 1: Know here's a weird thing. Though it still is not
Speaker 1: clear why to that original question one of us posts,
Speaker 1: it still isn't clear why it's taken more than sixty
Speaker 1: years for this to be declassified, especially if they didn't
Speaker 1: actually build anything other than that little avrocar prototype. But
Speaker 1: it follows on from the declassified news in two thousand
Speaker 1: and eight that the US government has been monitoring UFO
Speaker 1: activity for decades in secret, way after they said Project
Speaker 1: Blue Book was over. And furthermore, there are apparently rumour
Speaker 1: has that there are apparently two entire boxes of Projects
Speaker 1: seventeen ninety four documents, but only a handful of images
Speaker 1: have been digitized.
Speaker 2: Yeah, literally four that we were able to find in
Speaker 2: making this episode.
Speaker 1: So here's the problem. The story gets murky, right. The
Speaker 1: closest thing we have to a real prototype is that
Speaker 1: VZ nine Avrocar, and that prototype, by all accounts, was
Speaker 1: a stinker. It was originally specified for max speed of
Speaker 1: three hundred miles per hour with a ceiling of ten
Speaker 1: thousand feet instead of one hundred thousand, but in practice
Speaker 1: it never got more than three feet off the ground.
Speaker 1: Its top speed was thirty five miles per hour.
Speaker 2: This, yeah, I know.
Speaker 1: Despite the Avrocar's failures, which were clear and apparent, it's
Speaker 1: also clear and apparent that the US government was indeed
Speaker 1: working on aircraft in the nineteen fifties that resembled flying saucers.
Speaker 1: Suffice to say, the US may have been working on
Speaker 1: flying saucers back in the forties around the same time
Speaker 1: as the Roswell UFO incident. Now we're going, whoa, we're
Speaker 1: putting some strings together here.
Speaker 3: Well, that's what I was going to ask. I mean,
Speaker 3: you know, let's presuppose that they did discover some kind
Speaker 3: of craft at Roswell. Do you think it's possible that
Speaker 3: they took a cue from some of that technology that
Speaker 3: they found. If in fact this happened and then tried
Speaker 3: to apply it to you know, the design.
Speaker 1: Maybe quite possibly.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and this that's why it was classified for so long,
Speaker 3: even though they knew they weren't going to pursue it anymore,
Speaker 3: because it would raise these questions.
Speaker 1: Maybe a Soviet saucer crashed and then they had to
Speaker 1: make a whole dog and pony show about pretending to
Speaker 1: invent the technology on their own. It's interesting, and that
Speaker 1: kind of duplicity does play into international affairs. It's fascinating,
Speaker 1: it's addictive and tempting to think of what could have been.
Speaker 1: We do have an episode where we get as close
Speaker 1: as we can to discerning the cause of that event
Speaker 1: that's commonly called you know, roswell or groom leak, but
Speaker 1: we don't want to spoil it for you.
Speaker 2: No, And I would highly yeah, I check it out.
Speaker 2: I highly recommend the YouTube series that we made on
Speaker 2: that tu Ben.
Speaker 1: We did a YouTube series well on time Flies.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 1: Unlike other experimental projects of the same era, this project
Speaker 1: was fully canceled in December nineteen sixty one. That leaves
Speaker 1: us with some troubling questions, why would you pour all
Speaker 1: of this money into something just a shelvet. Later, there
Speaker 1: are a couple of possibilities. First, one obvious when we
Speaker 1: could say it just didn't work, either because our engineering
Speaker 1: ability or our technology at the time was just inadequate
Speaker 1: to solve the problems, or because the physics involved were
Speaker 1: beyond our ken as well.
Speaker 3: And again, like we're talking about earlier, we know this
Speaker 3: happens all the time with military prototypes. Oh, like they
Speaker 3: designed a circular ship. Remember that one terrible idea when
Speaker 3: the guns would fire, it was shoot the ship around
Speaker 3: in circles.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: It was somebody, some general or something. It was really
Speaker 3: hot for this idea and was high up enough in
Speaker 3: the you know, the military, that he got the dollars,
Speaker 3: but it was an embarras terrible idea. Could very well
Speaker 3: be the case here. They don't like to admit defeat.
Speaker 1: And then yeah, and then there was that there was
Speaker 1: that tank that was essentially a sphere that just had
Speaker 1: three guns randomly pointing out what, Oh it's great, really ridiculous. Well,
Speaker 1: you have to earn it, you know, you have to
Speaker 1: earn these great innovations and not not everything is going
Speaker 1: to be the goose the least the golden egg. But
Speaker 1: we do know that the military pursued something like this,
Speaker 1: and it's something that we're all familiar with today.
Speaker 2: Right. Oh yeah, well we've brought it up a little
Speaker 2: bit already in the show. But helicopters if you're if
Speaker 2: you want to have a vertical takeoff and landing solution,
Speaker 2: well guess what we got these things called helicopters.
Speaker 3: You can have bigger helicopters that have multiple propellers.
Speaker 2: Right, that's right. You know, they can't do a lot
Speaker 2: of the things that the military wanted to do.
Speaker 3: Dives and such evasive maneuver is probably more difficult.
Speaker 2: And specifically getting as high into the atmosphere as these
Speaker 2: vehicles are go anywhere near as fast as they wanted
Speaker 2: these vehicles to go. There's some fast helicopters, but nothing
Speaker 2: like that. But what helicopters did do is fix that
Speaker 2: problem that the military had, or at least the perceived
Speaker 2: problem the military had, of these giant runways of their
Speaker 2: far flung bases and needing to have defense of those
Speaker 2: bases and as well as having aircraft that could deploy
Speaker 2: quickly and go up and down quickly. Rather than having
Speaker 2: to take off with a big runway.
Speaker 1: So maybe they just found a compromise then, right, they said,
Speaker 1: this is what we can realistically do now.
Speaker 2: It certainly seems like it. And the timing makes a
Speaker 2: lot of sense here too, because if this the avrocar
Speaker 2: was canceled December nineteen sixty one. In early nineteen sixty two,
Speaker 2: that's when the US Air Force really started ramping up
Speaker 2: their training of personnel that can both fly and work
Speaker 2: on helicopters, like mechanics essentially pilots and mechanics, because.
Speaker 3: They're like, this is the best we got, we better
Speaker 3: just own it.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, because again it's the Vietnam War really ramps up,
Speaker 2: and that's when we see a lot more helicopters.
Speaker 1: Another possibility this was just one of many experiments or
Speaker 1: dabblings that a terrified government participated in. Maybe not so
Speaker 1: much because they thought it was practical, maybe more because
Speaker 1: they were hoping to keep their ideological rivals, the USSR
Speaker 1: at bay. So many weird things come from the psychological
Speaker 1: mind games of the Cold War. You know, we experimented
Speaker 1: with psychic powers esp astral travel, and were convinced many
Speaker 1: people in the US military industrial complex. We're convinced that
Speaker 1: not only were Soviet forces doing the same thing, but
Speaker 1: that they were doing it successfully. So they were like,
Speaker 1: more money, teach that guy how to kill things with
Speaker 1: his mind.
Speaker 2: So I've got, I've got. This is what I believe.
Speaker 2: I'm just going to tell you. I'm going to tell
Speaker 2: you my opinion right now.
Speaker 3: Lay it on me.
Speaker 2: The reason why we only have four images, four pages
Speaker 2: from Projects seventeen ninety four is because it, rather than
Speaker 2: being a reaction to some Soviet thing that we thought
Speaker 2: was happening, this is us trying to get the Soviet
Speaker 2: Union to spend a crap load of money trying to
Speaker 2: build one of these things, because we've already got this
Speaker 2: design and it's going to do all these things. It's
Speaker 2: our psychological manipulation of them.
Speaker 1: Counterpoint, it would have to have leaked in some controllable way.
Speaker 2: They leaked it on purpose, I think, to some mole
Speaker 2: that they knew was around.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well that does lead us
Speaker 1: to one one more possibility. What if this is a
Speaker 1: cover story or something like it. You know, no, far
Speaker 1: be it for us to sound two out there, but
Speaker 1: it is common practice to run these games of deception.
Speaker 1: You know, tanks were called tanks because they were originally
Speaker 1: shipped under false you know, under false pretense, false papers.
Speaker 1: They were called water tanks, right, And it turned out
Speaker 1: that they were these rolling weapons of mass destruction for
Speaker 1: the time, It's completely understandable that people would say there
Speaker 1: was something else to the story. We have to keep
Speaker 1: in mind additionally that the US government and other world
Speaker 1: governments have had massive success suppressing technology in the past. Bombers,
Speaker 1: especially stealth bombers.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: We grew up in an era where they were this
Speaker 1: open secret and every so often popular mechanics would write
Speaker 1: a piece saying, oh, maybe it's true, but it's not.
Speaker 1: And it turns out they were totally true, were totally true,
Speaker 1: and they looked insane, like nothing you would ever see
Speaker 1: so metal, you know what I mean. Right, So in conclusion, yes,
Speaker 1: it turns out there are slash were real flying saucers.
Speaker 1: They were built here on Earth, and according to the
Speaker 1: official narratives, they were what we in the automotive world
Speaker 1: would call lemons or real pieces is. However, the US
Speaker 1: government and numerous aerospace companies have again proven themselves fully
Speaker 1: capable of suppressing technology for some time. We just don't
Speaker 1: know how long that time horizon is.
Speaker 3: They call them lemons, guys, I don't know. Lemons are nice?
Speaker 3: What's wrong with lemons?
Speaker 2: Mmmm? It's just so sour?
Speaker 3: Maybe it implies if there's something wrong with it a
Speaker 3: perfectly good lemon, is it's just that it's a lemon.
Speaker 1: According to the online Etymology Dictionary, no one really knows.
Speaker 1: There are a couple. There are a couple of possibilities.
Speaker 1: Lemon used to be slaying for a person who is
Speaker 1: a quote loser or a simpleton, they would be dumb
Speaker 1: as a lemon, I guess. And then there was British
Speaker 1: pool hall slang where a lemon game was a game
Speaker 1: that was played by someone hustling. You.
Speaker 2: Oh, that makes more sense to me. Yeah, if it's
Speaker 2: a lemon, because the idea is you bottle lemon, right, not.
Speaker 3: What you see, it's what you get, right, Like you're
Speaker 3: seeing this person who is looking like something but they're
Speaker 3: actually something else.
Speaker 2: There you go, there, you go.
Speaker 3: Well, now that we went down the etymological rabbit hole.
Speaker 1: How much do you like lemon?
Speaker 2: Do you?
Speaker 1: Are you somebody who just straight up eats lemons?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 3: What I will tell you this. I bought these things.
Speaker 3: They are called superberry pills. Have you heard about this? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: And they make sour things taste sweet. So you can
Speaker 3: eat one of these pills and it fundamentally changes the
Speaker 3: way your taste buds perceive sourness and sweetest. So you
Speaker 3: can suck on a lemon and it tastes like sugar.
Speaker 1: I've been. I've been to the taste taste hacking parties too.
Speaker 1: Those those things are pretty cool. It's an interesting experience
Speaker 1: if you haven't tried it before, especially if you have
Speaker 1: some form of goustatory synaesthesia. I can only imagine what
Speaker 1: kind of colors you will see. It is completely possible
Speaker 1: that at least some of those UFO sightings back in
Speaker 1: the forties, well before the d classified memos mentioned AVRO,
Speaker 1: could have been attributed to similar or other related projects.
Speaker 1: What kind I know that a lot of us listening
Speaker 1: now are saying, mention it. You guys, don't swindle us.
Speaker 1: You have to mention it on air or whatever you
Speaker 1: talk about this topic, Nazi UFOs, Nazi technology battle right right,
Speaker 1: or the Horton right. There is compelling evidence of innovative
Speaker 1: prototypes made by the Nazi regime around that time, and
Speaker 1: we have various episodes all about it, so you can
Speaker 1: check those out easily on our website stuff they don't
Speaker 1: want you to know, or YouTube or wherever you find
Speaker 1: your favorite shows and podcasts. All together though, factive flying saucers,
Speaker 1: we're kind of real, yeah, even officially kind of real,
Speaker 1: at least for a second. It makes you wonder what
Speaker 1: else is up there in the atmosphere today, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean.
Speaker 2: What do you think?
Speaker 3: Let us know?
Speaker 1: Also, let us know what you think about helicopters. Have you, guys,
Speaker 1: ever been in a helicopter.
Speaker 2: Only once or twice once?
Speaker 3: They're great? Have you seen those Chinook for sevens? Yes,
Speaker 3: those are the twin prop Yeah yeah, choppers yeah, and
Speaker 3: they were actually in development not far off from when
Speaker 3: this Avro deal was going on in nineteen fifty seven.
Speaker 3: By the vert, all company.
Speaker 1: People are trying to solve the same problem different ways exactly.
Speaker 1: There are also, depending on the city in which you live,
Speaker 1: there are helicopter tours, So I would say, unless they're
Speaker 1: super expensive, get on one if you can. It's a
Speaker 1: great date idea.
Speaker 3: And apparently in New York now Uber is operating helicopters
Speaker 3: where you can get an uber helicopter to pick you
Speaker 3: up and take you to the airport. And it's only
Speaker 3: about the cost of a flight, you know, two hundred
Speaker 3: and fifty. Wow, But I'll tell you man, it's weird.
Speaker 3: Flex a taking a lift or an uber to the
Speaker 3: airport in New York City is a harrowing experience.
Speaker 1: It's an endeavor, yees say a long time. People who
Speaker 1: drive regularly in New York have made their peace with
Speaker 1: the afterlife here every time they hop in.
Speaker 3: Special kind of sadists as well.
Speaker 1: I would say kudos to you road warriors also, and
Speaker 1: perhaps a little bit more in line with today's show,
Speaker 1: let us know whether you think there is technology still
Speaker 1: being suppressed today and if so, what we often hear
Speaker 1: For instance that at least in the realm of software
Speaker 1: and algorithms, the NSSAY is far ahead of what would
Speaker 1: be considered viable or ethical in the public commercial sphere.
Speaker 1: And that's our classic episode for this evening. We can't
Speaker 1: wait to hear your thoughts.
Speaker 3: It's right, let us know what you think you can
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