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Speaker 1: All right, so let's be honest, the vaccine fact in

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Speaker 1: fiction classic episode probably ruffled a little feathers, probably bagged

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Speaker 1: a few badgers.

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Speaker 2: There.

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Speaker 1: We're going to return to you, fellow conspiracy realist, with

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Speaker 1: a non vaccine thing classic episode we call Project seventeen

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Speaker 1: ninety four. Do you guys remember this?

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Speaker 2: Oh?

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Speaker 3: For sure. It's a perfect material for a classic, for

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Speaker 3: it is a classic stuff they don't want you to

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Speaker 3: know type of topic, the iconic genre of UFOs.

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Speaker 2: I'm looking at the final development report now, guys that

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Speaker 2: we looked at back in the day, and.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, whoo this it was awesome.

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Speaker 1: Can we build our own flying saucer? The US government has, like,

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Speaker 1: imagine the weirdest relative you have right in your family,

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Speaker 1: the weirdest person on your street, whatever it's me and

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Speaker 1: both of those situations that early oval just eccentric, all right,

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Speaker 1: the weirdest other folks. As you're imagining the weirdest one

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Speaker 1: other than you, imagine that person at trillions of dollars

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Speaker 1: and just loved the good elevator. Pitch oh uncle, elon, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: are you tired of not having your own flying saucer?

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Speaker 2: Dog? Wait, is this the avrocar or is this a

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Speaker 2: different thing?

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Speaker 1: I think we get we have to mention the avrocar

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Speaker 1: at some point.

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Speaker 3: Okay, well, let's find out.

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Speaker 4: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is

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Speaker 4: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 4: learn this stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 1: A production of iHeart Radios How Stuff Works.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my

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Speaker 2: name is Noman.

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Speaker 1: They call me Ben Weird Away to as always with

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Speaker 1: our super producer Paul Mission control decad. Most importantly, you

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Speaker 1: are you. You are here, and that makes this stuff

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Speaker 1: they don't want you to know. We've been doing a

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Speaker 1: lot of our shows recently with a check in at

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Speaker 1: the beginning to make sure we're all in a cool

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Speaker 1: or at least tolerable place given the heat outside. So U, Matt,

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Speaker 1: how's it. How's it going?

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Speaker 2: It's going really well. We're coming right off of Father's Day.

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Speaker 2: I got to spend some time with my son yesterday.

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Speaker 2: In fact, it was wonderful. We went to a waterfall

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Speaker 2: that's nearby.

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Speaker 1: It's just it was awesome and a happy Father's Day

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Speaker 1: to both of you. Belated Well, thank you, Sarah. Sure

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Speaker 1: uh Noel, how about you.

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Speaker 3: It's good. I went and visited my mom and she

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Speaker 3: made me a Father's Day dinner lego lamb, which fas

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Speaker 3: it is, and a little bit of what do we

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Speaker 3: have on the side, Oh was some stuffed mushrooms, also

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Speaker 3: a favorite. And then I got to take my kid

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Speaker 3: to Oh actually, I went and got a manicure and

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Speaker 3: a pedicure, and then I got upsold into getting my

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Speaker 3: eyebrows waxed.

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Speaker 1: That's how it works.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's kind of a bummer because the pedicure feels

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Speaker 3: so good and then the eyebrow waxing really hurts, so

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Speaker 3: it sort of negated the good feels of the pedicure.

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Speaker 2: You know, honest, I have this thing with my feet

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Speaker 2: and if anyone ever tried to do anything to my

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Speaker 2: feet like that, like dude, I.

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Speaker 3: Would kick them in the face.

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Speaker 2: I would yeah, attack, Yeah, I would have to.

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Speaker 3: Just a part where they take this cheese greater thing

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Speaker 3: and just like rub it in the middles of your feet,

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Speaker 3: and I have to bite my lip really hard to

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Speaker 3: keep from like losing it.

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Speaker 2: God.

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Speaker 1: So we also in an update behind the curtain here,

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Speaker 1: we'd like to welcome one of our newest producers to

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Speaker 1: the universe of this show, Maya Cole, thanks for coming

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Speaker 1: listening in. Gotta gotta woo there that you can't hear

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Speaker 1: outside of the studio. Let's also check in with mission control.

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Speaker 1: How you do a man thumbs up? Thumbs down? Okay,

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Speaker 1: I thought it was a sideway thumb it was. For

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Speaker 1: a second, it was middling to good. We're gonna call

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Speaker 1: that seventy five percent.

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Speaker 3: How about you, mister Bolen.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for asking. Men, so we also no kidding. Uh yeah,

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Speaker 1: things are happening.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: I've been traveling some more, probably have some more travel

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Speaker 1: in the future.

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Speaker 3: And I've been out of this this particular realm, this

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Speaker 3: particular astral plane. Really just gonna give me the demon

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Speaker 3: laugh and move on.

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Speaker 2: By the way, did you did you listen to the

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Speaker 2: recent voicemail episode?

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Speaker 1: Did I?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Okay, all right, Well sorry guys, he hasn't heard

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Speaker 2: the Oh that's okay, don't worry about it.

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Speaker 3: Check it out.

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Speaker 2: It's fine.

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Speaker 1: I should listen to it.

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Speaker 3: I should we go into a little bit of your lore?

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Speaker 1: Oh boy, any anything I need to be aware of you?

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Speaker 3: You really all knowing all samee? I have on type

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Speaker 3: of individuals, what you want.

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Speaker 1: Oh man, that's that's too that is too kind. I

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Speaker 1: listened to one of the voicemail episodes and Matt Knowle

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Speaker 1: that you did way back, is it over a year

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Speaker 1: now ago?

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Speaker 2: Now?

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Speaker 3: Exactly?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? And that was really that was really good and

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Speaker 1: people really seem to enjoy it. So yeah, I'm sorry, apologize,

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Speaker 1: I'll listen to it.

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Speaker 2: Just just know that you were still included.

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Speaker 1: That's very god, thank you so much. And if you

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Speaker 1: want to be included in today's show, you do not

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Speaker 1: have to wait until the show is over. You can

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Speaker 1: simply pause and call us directly with your thoughts, your opinions,

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Speaker 1: your hot takes. As they say in the late night shows.

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Speaker 1: Just keep it around three minutes or be ready to

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Speaker 1: call back and say and another thing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean a hot take should technically be like

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Speaker 3: a verbal tweet kind of thing. So three minutes should

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Speaker 3: be plenty for a hot take.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, then you're getting into rant territories Dennis Miller style.

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Speaker 3: Although we like a good ram as well.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes you know, you get stuck just applying Marty Garras

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Speaker 2: beads to a basket and you're just like, you know,

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Speaker 2: I need to call like three or four more times.

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Speaker 2: Just trust me, it happens.

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Speaker 3: Some it happens.

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Speaker 1: See. So what's that number for anyone who wants to call.

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Speaker 2: It's one eight three three s WYTK.

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Speaker 3: So you can't did like that.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, we're ritualizing, so go ahead and drop us

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Speaker 1: a line. Today we are returning to the world of

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Speaker 1: unidentified flying objects. Specifically, we're exploring the story of flying saucers,

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Speaker 1: not UFOs in general. Mind you, actual flying saucers. For decades,

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Speaker 1: these were some of the most widely reported mysterious aerial

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Speaker 1: phenomena in the Western world. Even today, when you hear

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Speaker 1: someone say the word alien or extraterrestrial or UFO, most

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Speaker 1: people will immediately conjure up an image of a flying saucer, right,

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Speaker 1: you know, you got the whole nine, got the little uh,

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Speaker 1: the then secure pin, yeah, you got the cockpit at

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Speaker 1: the top, maybe glass dome. And then of course it's

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Speaker 1: always shooting a tractor beam down over a cow and

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Speaker 1: an abandoned field at night somewhere turning.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I always have the Mars Attacks version in my head.

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Speaker 3: Because that's the classic trophy version. Like Timbert was obsessed

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Speaker 3: with those kind of old comic representations of that kind

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Speaker 3: of imagery, the Martians themselves with the big dome, you know,

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Speaker 3: head things and all of that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and Mars attacks. I'm gonna say I still enjoy it. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I do too, im mensely. It's a great documentary. Right, So,

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Speaker 1: but what are these things flying saucers? They've been described

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Speaker 1: as a widely misidentified mundane phenomenon. They've been described as

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Speaker 1: little more than collective hysteria.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: Our question today is are they real? And to answer

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Speaker 1: that question we have to start from the beginning. So

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Speaker 1: here are the facts. Why do we call them flying saucers.

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Speaker 1: It's not like anyone nowadays, at least in the US

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Speaker 1: or Canada, uses the phrase saucer to describe the actual

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Speaker 1: little plate upon which one would place a cup or

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Speaker 1: a mug.

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Speaker 3: What would you call it?

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Speaker 1: What would I would I call that a little plate?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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Speaker 1: All the way I really clip the tea's I say,

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Speaker 1: little plate or little cup?

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Speaker 3: You have very good diction.

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Speaker 2: Then I would be interested to know if any of

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Speaker 2: our British listeners, or anyone out in the UK or

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Speaker 2: around that area still uses the phrase saucer.

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Speaker 3: No, they definitely do. Think about a saucer of milk

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Speaker 3: for a cat. It's certainly in the in the vernacular, that's.

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Speaker 1: Those are the only two freezes. I hear it in though,

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Speaker 1: fine saucer or saucer of milk is the other one.

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Speaker 3: Cup and saucer they call it. It's like, it's like

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Speaker 3: it's a set. They come together. It's the cup and

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Speaker 3: then the saucer.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but are people walking around talking about it though?

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Speaker 3: And saucer? Well, why you don't know. You don't pass

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Speaker 3: the saucer because you're passing the cup and it's on

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Speaker 3: the saucer.

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Speaker 1: But if someone's like, if someone's like, no, that's the thing.

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Speaker 1: No one addresses it as a singular entity.

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Speaker 3: You don't.

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Speaker 1: You don't hear the word saucer floating around without being

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Speaker 1: attached to a cup, an alien, or a cat.

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Speaker 3: It's basically a glorified drip pan. It's it's made to

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Speaker 3: catch the drippings from your tea. So presumably, if you're

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Speaker 3: not a total slob, you don't even need a saucer.

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Speaker 1: There you go, I did what doesn't it depend on

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Speaker 1: the temptate? Okay, this is maybe a different show, but

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Speaker 1: we call these things flying saucers because of oddly enough,

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Speaker 1: skeet shooting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Back in eighteen ninety or so ever since then, flying

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Speaker 1: saucer was used to describe one of those clay pigeons

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Speaker 1: that they shoot off and you know, fire at and

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Speaker 1: then you high five each other when you hit one,

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Speaker 1: and that resembles a saucer, a classic UFO shape.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because the little device that they would we either

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Speaker 3: someone would throw the manuallyer. I think as technology advanced,

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Speaker 3: they would have little machines that would like you know,

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Speaker 3: hold them or like with a little arm and kind

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Speaker 3: of lob them. They'd go thoop, they'd go foop and

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Speaker 3: then smash right, Yeah, But it's because they're of a

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Speaker 3: shape that allows them to be thrown with a nice

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Speaker 3: directional velocity.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, like a frisbee.

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Speaker 2: There you go.

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Speaker 1: So for years and years and years and years, this

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Speaker 1: was a term that was kind of slaying in the

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Speaker 1: world of clay and shooting. But this phrase did not

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Speaker 1: describe UFOs until nineteen thirty and it didn't become popularized

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Speaker 1: until nineteen forty seven. In June twenty fourth of nineteen

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Speaker 1: forty seven, a guy named Kenneth Arnold had this highly

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Speaker 1: publicized UFO sighting, and it resulted in the popularization of

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Speaker 1: the term flying saucer in US newspapers and then later

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Speaker 1: the anglosphere and then later the world overall. So what

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Speaker 1: happened what made Kenneth Arnold go viral? Or at least

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Speaker 1: what did he see?

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Speaker 3: So what Arnold said was he claimed to have encountered

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Speaker 3: flashes of light and nine different objects flying in some

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Speaker 3: sort of formation, occasionally flipping the way you might think

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Speaker 3: of the drone behavior hovering. You know, there's those drones

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Speaker 3: you can get that'll flip upside down like that or

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Speaker 3: do like a three sixty loop or whatever like that

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Speaker 3: without moving very far. So he followed them and found

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Speaker 3: that they were traveling at incredibly high speed and consisted

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Speaker 3: of various shapes each. They were not identical, they were

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Speaker 3: not uniform. Eventually he lost track of them, and he

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Speaker 3: landed sharing his experience and word spread and his account,

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Speaker 3: to use the kind of internet parlance, went viral.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he was as popular for a time as a

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Speaker 1: cat meme is today. So in these interviews with the press,

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Speaker 1: I like the point you're raising about the shapes being varied.

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Speaker 1: He described them a couple of different ways, and a

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Speaker 1: couple of different interviews. One he called a pie plate

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Speaker 1: and when he said oval in the front convects in

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Speaker 1: the rear. And what this means is that some editor

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Speaker 1: has lost to history now. And part of the reason

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Speaker 1: this story gained so much public traction is because Arnold

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Speaker 1: was a pilot, you know what I mean, he was

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Speaker 1: a credible source at the time, right, And still a

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Speaker 1: pilot is more credible than someone on the ground in

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Speaker 1: a lot of ways because they have simply more experience.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, to mention, like, yet it's it's pretty hard to

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Speaker 3: competently pilot a plane if you're either mentally unstable or

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Speaker 3: under the influence of some kind of drugs or alcohol.

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Speaker 3: Typically frowned upon in the piloting community.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, And the.

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Speaker 2: Biggest thing is just having an understanding of how aircraft function. Right,

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Speaker 2: That's true, that that's the biggest thing when when you

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Speaker 2: have a pilot, say, these things were flipping around or

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Speaker 2: doing this weird thing, and they were oval shaped and oblong,

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Speaker 2: it was really strange. But then he goes on in

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Speaker 2: further interviews to like describe them even more differently.

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Speaker 1: Right, right, oval in the front and convex in the rear,

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Speaker 1: So it just like in the back in UFO parlance. Yeah, probably,

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Speaker 1: it really depends on whether you're an oval or a

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Speaker 1: convex guy.

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Speaker 3: You know, that's a good point.

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Speaker 4: Uh.

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Speaker 1: He described something as a pie plate, and then later

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Speaker 1: his story changes again. He describes one of the objects

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Speaker 1: as a crescent or flying wing, some as a big

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Speaker 1: flat disc, some as simply saucer like. And that's where

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Speaker 1: we hit on the etymology here, because while Arnold is

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Speaker 1: associated with this term, it was probably some editor lost

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Speaker 1: to history who's responsible for calling it a flying saucer.

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Speaker 1: And for a little while there was kind of a

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Speaker 1: pepsi coke thing going on with flying disc versus flying saucer,

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Speaker 1: but flying saucer clearly won out, and we still use

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Speaker 1: the phrase today sort of, yeah.

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Speaker 2: A little bit, but the phrase has kind of gone

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Speaker 2: away or at least been supplanted quite a bit. By this.

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Speaker 2: We're gonna call it a government created term because that's

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Speaker 2: what it is. Unidentified flying object or UFO.

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Speaker 3: Or UFO as I like to say, and no one

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Speaker 3: else does.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and these these aren't aliens necessarily, they're not extraterrestrials.

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Speaker 1: They're just something in the sky that people cannot identify.

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Speaker 1: Look up in the sky, it's bird played, it's Superman,

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Speaker 1: it's a weather blue. I don't know, I guess it's unidentified.

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Speaker 2: Well, and we're gonna we're gonna continue to use the

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Speaker 2: term UFO here in this episode, but it should be noted,

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Speaker 2: as we noted not that long ago in an episode,

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Speaker 2: the military has now changed that as they like to

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Speaker 2: change their phrasing over time, to unidentified aerial vehicle.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, a UAV.

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Speaker 3: I mean it's also sort of like that. They might

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Speaker 3: call something like that. The something comes up on the radar,

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Speaker 3: they call it a bogie or whatever, But that's sort

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Speaker 3: of if it's something they don't know the origin of,

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Speaker 3: they can't have eyes on it directly, then that could

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Speaker 3: be considered one of these as well, unidentified aerial vehicle.

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Speaker 1: That's the problem with the acronym though, there must be

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Speaker 1: some of the initialism. There must be something missing, because

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Speaker 1: unmanned aerial vehicle is also UAV.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there you go, or maybe I'm incorrect. I know

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Speaker 2: it's something similar.

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Speaker 1: To that, but yeah, I mean Uncle Sam. Governments in

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Speaker 1: general big fans of abbreviations and initialisms. Today, flying saucers,

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Speaker 1: not just the phrase the thing has become this genre

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Speaker 1: of overall UFO sightings, and when you look at the

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Speaker 1: world of fiction, flying saucers still by far they're running

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Speaker 1: the game. You know, the problem is they're not represented

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Speaker 1: in a serious way. Mars Attacks spoiler alert is not,

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Speaker 1: in fact a documentary. You can see them in things

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Speaker 1: like sci fi series like The X Files, right, they'll

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Speaker 1: use the flying saucer appearance. You'll see it depicted in

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Speaker 1: a ton of nineteen fifties nineteen sixties fiction. You know,

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Speaker 1: we're talking Outer Limits, Twilight Zone and so on. But

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Speaker 1: what if there's more to the story. Is there any truth?

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Speaker 1: Two tales of actual flying saucers, Not clouds that look

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Speaker 1: like saucers, mind you, Not weird tricks of the light,

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Speaker 1: no atmospheric high jinks or strange ionospheric interference, real genuine

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Speaker 1: flying saucer. The answer is yes, there were real flying saucers,

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Speaker 1: and we built them.

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Speaker 2: Don't toy with my emotions, Ben, It's true, and we're

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Speaker 2: gonna talk about the ones that at least we tried

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Speaker 2: to contract out afterward from our sponsor.

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Speaker 3: Here's where it gets crazy.

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Speaker 1: Enter Projects seventeen ninety four and related to this, the

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Speaker 1: Avro Canada VZ nine avrocar.

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Speaker 2: Yes, let's talk about it. And before we get into that,

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Speaker 2: I have to make a quick edit to what I

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Speaker 2: said earlier. This is just everyone listening who said matt

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Speaker 2: UAVs are a thing. Ben is absolutely right, and you

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Speaker 2: are wrong. You are correct. It is. It's not even

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Speaker 2: called unidentified aerieal something. It's called unexplained aerial phenomena. So

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Speaker 2: that's you, ap yes, oh op, yeah, So apologies for

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Speaker 2: everyone who was really frustrated before the break. Let's continue on.

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Speaker 3: I think they were shaking their fists at their I

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Speaker 3: hope someone caughtcast device.

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Speaker 2: I know, I hope someone.

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Speaker 1: Called and then they got done with their voicemail and

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Speaker 1: they listened through to the rest of the podcast.

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Speaker 2: It just goes to show you, like, there's so many

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Speaker 2: things in my brain that I feel like I know

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Speaker 2: things about, but I only have bits and pieces human

341
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Speaker 2: condition my friends, But you know what I do know about?

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Speaker 1: What do you know about?

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Speaker 2: Because it's written down in this awesome outline that you

344
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Speaker 2: created that it's the story of this guy named John

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Speaker 2: Carver Meadows Frost and everybody you know his friends they

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Speaker 2: call him Jack. He worked in the aerospace industry for

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Speaker 2: quite a while, and in June of nineteen forty seven

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Speaker 2: he started working for this Canadian company called Avro Canada AVR. Oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's right. And you know this dude's all about uh,

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Speaker 2: you know, dreaming big.

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Speaker 1: He's a big picture guy, that's right.

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Speaker 2: And he would he or he like, did this thing

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Speaker 2: that Avro called Blue Sky's Research. So like these are

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Speaker 2: when we say big picture things, ideas that are so

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Speaker 2: close to the edge of what science can do. They're

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Speaker 2: they're overlapping or just beyond what is possible. And that's

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Speaker 2: our boy, Jack nineteen forty seven, he's thinking on the edge.

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Speaker 3: Jackie boy.

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Speaker 1: That's right, Old Jack Frost himself. Yes, at Avro Canada,

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Speaker 1: he had already worked on something called the Avro CF

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Speaker 1: one hundred. This is a this is a craft that

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Speaker 1: is innovative, but not wild wild style Blue Skies. Yes,

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Speaker 1: Blue Sky's Research is stuff like in the world of aviation,

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Speaker 1: an example of something that would be considered experimental would

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Speaker 1: be the Howard Hughes design Spruce Goose, the largest plane

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Speaker 1: in history that we know of geese. Yes, and if

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Speaker 1: you look at pictures of that thing, it's it's enormous,

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Speaker 1: it's it's impractical.

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Speaker 3: I think it's a I've seen it before. I feel like,

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Speaker 3: is it on display in like San Francisco. It's on

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Speaker 3: the West coast right, Oh, you know what it's a

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Speaker 3: it's actually the Evergreen Aviation Museum in McMinnville, Oregon.

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Speaker 1: Interesting, nice, well done McMinnville. So you can look at

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Speaker 1: pictures of this thing. It's built largely out of wood.

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Speaker 1: He called it the H four Hercules. It has the

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Speaker 1: name spruce Goose, which came about as an insult from

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Speaker 1: a skeptical press. The world of brainstorming is high risk,

378
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Speaker 1: high return, but this is the world that Jack wants

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Speaker 1: to live in. So after he's been working on the

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Speaker 1: AVROCF one hundred, he creates a research team called the

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Speaker 1: Special Projects Group or SPG, and he at first surrounded

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Speaker 1: himself with other people who thought like he did, out

383
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Speaker 1: of the box. You know what I mean, mavericks. So

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Speaker 1: this group SPG, Special Projects Group, was situated in their

385
00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:10,960
Speaker 1: main administration building, but then they relocated it to an

386
00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:15,399
Speaker 1: older structure across from the company headquarters and what was

387
00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:18,520
Speaker 1: called the Shafer Building, and their security went through the roof.

388
00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:23,400
Speaker 1: They had guards everywhere, lock doors, special unique pass cards.

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Speaker 1: They started doing serious stuff, you know what I mean.

390
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Speaker 1: The days of hanging out in the conference room with

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Speaker 1: a chalkboard were long gone.

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Speaker 2: Nobody can see this chalkboard.

393
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Speaker 1: Right right now. It's all secret chalk. Disappearing chalk?

394
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Speaker 3: Is that a thing?

395
00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:41,159
Speaker 1: They guess all chalk is disappearing theft eraser. So the

396
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Speaker 1: SPG operated out of this experimental hangar and they shared

397
00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:52,240
Speaker 1: space with other secretive AVRO project teams. Jack was personally fascinated,

398
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:54,960
Speaker 1: along with a lot of other people, by something called

399
00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:59,000
Speaker 1: vertical takeoff and landing vehicles also known as VTOL because

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00:20:59,000 --> 00:20:59,600
Speaker 1: are pretty cool.

401
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:03,720
Speaker 2: Can you say vitol or we need to say vitole

402
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:07,480
Speaker 2: I like Vito vitall craft.

403
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,600
Speaker 1: Right there might be somebody named Vitold listening now, and

404
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:11,760
Speaker 1: if you are, you know hello.

405
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Speaker 2: So for a VTOL aircraft, really think about a helicopter,

406
00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:21,040
Speaker 2: especially when you're thinking about taking off and landing, something

407
00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:24,400
Speaker 2: that vertically goes up and goes out and then can

408
00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:26,600
Speaker 2: come back and go down and you can get out

409
00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:31,439
Speaker 2: of the thing. And you know, for these aircraft, the

410
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:35,280
Speaker 2: specific ones that Jack is interested in, it's having that

411
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Speaker 2: ability to take off vertically but then fly around like

412
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Speaker 2: an airplane. Wood or jet should then come right back

413
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Speaker 2: and then go back down.

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Speaker 3: Like the X Men jet.

415
00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:49,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, right with that has the rotating turbines, right, which

416
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:51,320
Speaker 1: is a really cool feature, kind of like an osprey

417
00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:52,720
Speaker 1: I believe the craft are called.

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00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:53,400
Speaker 3: Yeah.

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00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:56,920
Speaker 1: So in the nineteen fifties, the US Air Force was

420
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Speaker 1: worried about the vulnerability of their bases because of a

421
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Speaker 1: couple of limiting factors of conventional aircraft.

422
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:08,040
Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, and then this is something we should talk

423
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:11,200
Speaker 2: about that Ben and I were talking about offline here.

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Speaker 2: In nineteen forty seven is when the US Air Force

425
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:18,399
Speaker 2: splits off or is officially split off from the army

426
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Speaker 2: from just as a separate military unit. And you know,

427
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Speaker 2: this is at this point post World War Two. But

428
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Speaker 2: they've got these bases that are all over the planet.

429
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Speaker 2: At this point, they're pretty isolated, and the Air Force

430
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Speaker 2: around this time in the nineteen fifties, they're really worried

431
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Speaker 2: that these bases are just gonna get destroyed because if

432
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Speaker 2: you imagine looking at one of these bases overhead, like

433
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:50,040
Speaker 2: Google mapsing it or Google earthing it back in let's

434
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:54,920
Speaker 2: say nineteen fifty four, you're just gonna see several huge

435
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,920
Speaker 2: runways and then a bunch of extremely high value targets

436
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:01,879
Speaker 2: just clustered around these runways.

437
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:03,800
Speaker 1: Eggs in a single basket exactly.

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Speaker 2: And that's aircraft, of course, just sitting around the runways.

439
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:08,760
Speaker 2: So they wanted to find a way to reduce either

440
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,600
Speaker 2: the length and thickness of their runways, so it's not

441
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 2: such a like if you're flying overhead or a nearby

442
00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:17,120
Speaker 2: in an enemy vehicle. You can't just go, oh, hey,

443
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:20,200
Speaker 2: look that's a military base, and we can wreak havoc

444
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:23,760
Speaker 2: on their offensive and defensive capabilities if we attack that thing.

445
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 2: And they also wanted to well, so they wanted to

446
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:29,719
Speaker 2: either reduce them, make them smaller, or just get rid

447
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:33,240
Speaker 2: of them completely. So you could have basically a United

448
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:35,159
Speaker 2: States Air Force base in the middle of nowhere and

449
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 2: it would be a little more hidden at least a bit.

450
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:40,159
Speaker 2: The other thing they wanted to do is find a

451
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:45,120
Speaker 2: way to deploy aircraft faster for both offensive and defensive capabilities.

452
00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:47,920
Speaker 2: So if your base is being attacked, you can send

453
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:50,920
Speaker 2: you can send aircraft up that'll knock down all the

454
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,080
Speaker 2: other planes that are coming in to attack you, or

455
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:55,880
Speaker 2: you can send them off quicker to go attack nearby areas.

456
00:23:55,960 --> 00:24:00,240
Speaker 2: So reducing scramble time exactly. That makes sense. And this

457
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,679
Speaker 2: the VTOL thing just what Jack is interested in. That

458
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:06,600
Speaker 2: was one of the proposed solutions.

459
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:11,719
Speaker 1: The thing is, this sort of experimentation is spoiler alert

460
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 1: cartoonishly expensive. It's not uncommon, but it is expensive. And

461
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:22,600
Speaker 1: because often these are some of the first people trying

462
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,640
Speaker 1: to do this kind of thing ever, right, in any

463
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 1: any kind of hardware prototyping, often they are prone to failure.

464
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:34,119
Speaker 1: And I don't mean like, oh good, lesson learn, I

465
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,359
Speaker 1: mean this is a disaster. These people are dead. Why

466
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:39,359
Speaker 1: did we lose millions of dollars on this?

467
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 3: Remember that episode we did a ridiculous history Bend that

468
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 3: was about failed military technology, and one of them was

469
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,480
Speaker 3: like a hoverboard kind of platform things. That was kind

470
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:50,120
Speaker 3: of part of the technology for one of these vital jets, right,

471
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:51,919
Speaker 3: it was the part that lifts the thing up off

472
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 3: the ground. But that was literally all these were. And

473
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:56,400
Speaker 3: you would control it sort of like a segue by

474
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 3: like leaning into it or back or sideways, so you

475
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,480
Speaker 3: looked really say, and it was it was very unwieldy

476
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:04,920
Speaker 3: and heavy, and they weren't very good at like anything.

477
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 3: The flying platform flying platforms like you know, it had

478
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 3: this sci fi space vibe too, where like everyone's like

479
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 3: zipping around on these little discs. Yeah, like flying saucers,

480
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 3: but they just weren't very functional in a war situation.

481
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, they were more they were more a rich person's toy,

482
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 1: I think ultimately. But also like a segue, like when

483
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 1: we think of when we think of these experiments, let's

484
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 1: also remember things like bat bombs. Let's remember things like

485
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 1: cyborg cats. That was a real thing. Rocket bullets, rocket bullets,

486
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 1: all all sorts of stuff in this spy dolphins, spy dolphins,

487
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:44,200
Speaker 1: and that's not even getting into assassination attempts and equipment.

488
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 1: So they know they're in again, a high risk, high

489
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 1: reward situation. There's something else interesting that happens in society

490
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 1: at this time. So flying saucers are experiencing what pr

491
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:59,399
Speaker 1: people here in twenty nineteen would call a moment. There

492
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:03,159
Speaker 1: was a pro liferation of sightings flying saucers in the

493
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 1: West as a whole, but across the world, and there

494
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:10,639
Speaker 1: is serious concern, not just it's not just newspaper publishers

495
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 1: trying to sell the next week's edition. It's not just

496
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 1: fringe theorists anymore. There are members of the US military

497
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 1: who are seriously anxious, concerned, terrified would be a fair word.

498
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 1: That Soviet forces may have beaten them to the punch,

499
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:32,120
Speaker 1: creating their own top secret VTOL, in other words, creating

500
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 1: their own flying saucers. So these folks at the higher

501
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:39,359
Speaker 1: echelons of the military and politics are essentially saying, what

502
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,359
Speaker 1: if all these flying saucer sightings are real? And what

503
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 1: if they're you know, they're not spacemen or something, they're

504
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 1: not aliens, they're you know, well they would probably say

505
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:51,399
Speaker 1: kamis or reds or something like that.

506
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:55,400
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, so in the in late nineteen fifty three,

507
00:26:56,359 --> 00:27:00,639
Speaker 2: a group of defense experts took a little visit to Avro,

508
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:03,679
Speaker 2: Canada to view this new thing that was called the

509
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:07,399
Speaker 2: CF one hundred fighter jet. Because you know, you don't

510
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 2: just need crazy experimental things that might happen. You also

511
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 2: need real fighter jets when you're the military.

512
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:15,400
Speaker 1: And that's what Yeah, the US Air Force is there

513
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 1: just to see that jet. It's important to the story.

514
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we'll tell you what happened on their visit

515
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 2: after a word from our sponsor.

516
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:32,880
Speaker 1: And we're back. So midway through the tour or pal

517
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:37,640
Speaker 1: Jack Frost busts in and hijacks them. Essentially, he takes

518
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:42,159
Speaker 1: these visitors to the high security Special Projects area and

519
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,400
Speaker 1: he does a little show and tell. He gives them

520
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,160
Speaker 1: a look at a mock up of something he calls

521
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 1: Project y Too. This is a completely circular disc shaped aircraft.

522
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,959
Speaker 3: Yes, it's right. And the USAF visitors were pretty impressed

523
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,920
Speaker 3: by what they saw. They took over funding for the

524
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 3: Special Projects Group and gave seven hundred and fifty thousand

525
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:08,360
Speaker 3: American dollars in nineteen fifty five, which, if we inflation

526
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,639
Speaker 3: calculated that by today's standards, it's a little over seven

527
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:13,399
Speaker 3: million dollars.

528
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 1: Pretty crazy, right.

529
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 3: Mm hmm. And the next year AVRO decided to commit

530
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:20,879
Speaker 3: to and a half million nineteen fifty five dollars to

531
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 3: build a prototype. So, as you said before, ben very

532
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 3: expensive to do this kind of out of the box

533
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 3: kind of thinking and research.

534
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 1: Yeah yep.

535
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:30,640
Speaker 5: And they said the reward could be amazing, Yes, yes,

536
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 5: could be, or it could be relegated to the scrap

537
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 5: heap of history. It's it's marginally better than gambling.

538
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what I mean. So this study encompassed

539
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 1: a wide variety of possible designs, but they all revolved

540
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 1: around this disc shape, this flying saucer shape, leading to

541
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 1: something called Project seventeen ninety four. The goal was to

542
00:28:54,760 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 1: build a supersonic large disc fighter aircraft jet that's also

543
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 1: a circle.

544
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 2: Basically, yeah, and again, think about this, a flying disc,

545
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 2: a flying saucer then engages other aircraft in ground objects

546
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 2: like how crazy is that?

547
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 1: Again, this is a real thing at this point. So

548
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 1: they eventually get to the level where they're doing what's

549
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 1: called wind tunnel testing with scale models. So they're studying

550
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 1: how these things move through the environment and what little

551
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 1: tweaks or big changes they can make to make it

552
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 1: less of a disaster.

553
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 3: A wind tunnel simulating the conditions of high speed flight

554
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 3: without actually having to reach those speeds.

555
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 1: Absolutely nail on the head.

556
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 3: Yeah.

557
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 1: They eventually decide that the reasonable estimate for this concept

558
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 1: would result in a vehicle that can go mock three

559
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 1: point five at one thousand foot altitudes or thirty thousand

560
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 1: meters for the rest of the world. This led to

561
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 1: something called the Avrocar, which is thing that you can

562
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 1: see today if you want to travel to a museum

563
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 1: and check it out. Highly recommended. Jack Frost built this

564
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 1: kills me. This guy's name is Jack Frost. How many Joe?

565
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 1: He must have been so cool. He built this as

566
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 1: a two seer personal car kind of concept, so it's

567
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 1: much smaller than what they were aiming to build seventeen

568
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 1: ninety four. And it showed, you know, it meant to

569
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 1: It was a proof of concept. It was meant to show, hey,

570
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 1: these things can work. We can actually put people in them.

571
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 1: They can take off, they can fly around, they can land.

572
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 1: Everybody will be alive. We'll high five each other. Awesome,

573
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 1: go us. And at the time, this was just a

574
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 1: step toward their ultimate goal, the supersonic flying saucer. How

575
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 1: do we know about this? How do we know this

576
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 1: is real and not a story? No one really knew.

577
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 1: No one officially knew about this until two thousand and twelve,

578
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 1: when declassified documents showed the rumors were true, which happens

579
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 1: all the time. How many people can you imagine who

580
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 1: were engineers on their deathbed telling their kids, like, no,

581
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 1: it's true, we kind of built flying saucers.

582
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 3: Is there a statute limitations that allows things to be

583
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 3: things to be declassified? Is it sort of like a

584
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 3: copyright expiring or does someone just up high kind of

585
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 3: have to say, you know what, I don't think it's

586
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 3: a big deal anymore. People want to know. It'd probably

587
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 3: be fun to let this out there. What do you

588
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,719
Speaker 3: think the protocol is fun? Not fun, but you know,

589
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 3: fun for the people, you know, for the UFO nerds.

590
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 3: You give them a little something to go on.

591
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 2: I would just start I would start by saying, while

592
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 2: I don't know the exact parameters of that timeframe, I

593
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 2: do know that after a certain amount of time it

594
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 2: comes up as it can be reviewed essentially to be declassified.

595
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 1: Or it can be reclassified. At that point it is

596
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 1: kind of like a kind of like a copyright. Yeah,

597
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 1: that's not a bad comparison, because there were things that

598
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 1: came out recently regarding or there were things up for

599
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 1: review excuse me, regarding the Kennedy assassination, some of which

600
00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 1: were released and some of which were reclassifies, right, and

601
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 1: the problem is there. The criteria for that is is

602
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 1: it fun?

603
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 2: That's number one?

604
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 1: That's the number one. Are we all having a good time?

605
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 1: Number two is does this still pose a continued risk

606
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 1: to national security or to people or sorry, the exposure

607
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 1: of methods and technologies used to gain information or advantage,

608
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 1: get an edge. Yeah, and that's that's such a woefully

609
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 1: vague thing that happens all the time. What isn't national security?

610
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 1: You could stretch that to anything totally.

611
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 2: But because of this twenty twelve declassified documentation, we got

612
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 2: to take a look for the first time at this

613
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 2: memo that comes from nineteen fifty six. That really shows

614
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 2: what the engineers there at Avro were attempting to build,

615
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 2: like the thing they wanted the end goal to be.

616
00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 2: And it gets back to a saucer like view that

617
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 2: was capable of reaching quote between Mack three and Mark four,

618
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 2: a ceiling of over one hundred thousand feet, meaning it

619
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 2: can climb all the way up to over or around

620
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 2: over one hundred thousand feet and a maximum range with allowances.

621
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 2: This is still the quote of about one thousand nautical.

622
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 1: Miles incredible bowsers and that's you know, that's nineteen fifty

623
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 1: six when the memo is written, So that is the

624
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 1: same year that Avro itself gives that two point five

625
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 1: million dollars in nineteen fifty six bucks as you said,

626
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 1: nol to the project. As far as we can tell,

627
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 1: this supersonic flying saucer it can's weird that this is

628
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 1: a real thing. Would propel itself by rotating an outer

629
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 1: disc at a very very high speed, and then maneuvering

630
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 1: would be accomplished by using small shutters on the edge

631
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 1: of the disc. It would be powered by jet turbines,

632
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 1: so no secret technology there. And according to the cutaway

633
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 1: diagrams you can see maybe four so digitized pictures of this.

634
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 1: According to those cutaway diagrams, the entire thing would be

635
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 1: able to take off and land vertically, so it would

636
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:15,760
Speaker 1: move in a way that closely resembled the movements reported

637
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:16,719
Speaker 1: of flying saucers.

638
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,319
Speaker 2: Can we just take a minute and look at this

639
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 2: cutaway together, because it is dang fascinating, really cool. And

640
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,320
Speaker 2: there are some things that Ben and I were talking

641
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 2: about off air before you came in. In particular, the

642
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:31,840
Speaker 2: cockpit area at the very center of this vehicle that

643
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 2: Ben was describing is directly surrounded by four large rings

644
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,799
Speaker 2: of the fuel that runs the entire vehicle. So if

645
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:45,799
Speaker 2: you're sitting inside this thing, you're literally surrounded by all

646
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 2: of the combustible stuff that is being.

647
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 3: Used to run the Ooh, so if you take a

648
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 3: direct hit, you're just like you're just you're toast.

649
00:34:53,719 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 1: You're sacrificing, You're sacrificing durability for flexibility or would be

650
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 1: a better word. Your main strategy is to not get hit.

651
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 3: Well, it's like those U boats where they had the

652
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 3: toilets mounted right above the batteries that ran the whole thing,

653
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:11,880
Speaker 3: So when the toilet's malfunction, it would like flood the

654
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 3: batteries and cause all these problems. It's sort of like,

655
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,439
Speaker 3: you know, you take a hit on design in order

656
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 3: to or you take a hit maybe on safety in

657
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 3: order to like pack more features into a thing.

658
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 1: It's just like a video game where you can choose

659
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 1: characters that are faster than average but weaker, or you

660
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:33,720
Speaker 1: can choose characters that are absolute tanks but they're like slow.

661
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, Well.

662
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:36,880
Speaker 2: Then let's just talk about this really fast, because I

663
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 2: was fascinated by that design, and I am nowhere near

664
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:41,839
Speaker 2: an engineer or a physicist or anything like that. But

665
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 2: you have to imagine the fuel tanks in a vehicle

666
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,400
Speaker 2: like this are going to be like fairly heavy at

667
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 2: the beginning at takeoff, right when you're all fueled up.

668
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 2: Then by the end of your mission, it's going to

669
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 2: be the weight that the center of the vehicle is

670
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 2: going to be significantly reduced.

671
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 3: To change the handling. Probably right, Well, I mean.

672
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 2: Because you're you know, literally the spinning disc part of

673
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:07,799
Speaker 2: this is what's giving you not fully propulsion, but it's

674
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 2: what's stable standing the craft doing effect and keeping you

675
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 2: in the air. The whole thing blows my mind, and

676
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:17,400
Speaker 2: I just want to hear from anybody out there listening

677
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 2: that understands the physics of it a little better. Please

678
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 2: please look at the Project seventeen ninety four documentation and

679
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:26,960
Speaker 2: let us.

680
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 1: Know here's a weird thing. Though it still is not

681
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 1: clear why to that original question one of us posts,

682
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:39,400
Speaker 1: it still isn't clear why it's taken more than sixty

683
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 1: years for this to be declassified, especially if they didn't

684
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 1: actually build anything other than that little avrocar prototype. But

685
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 1: it follows on from the declassified news in two thousand

686
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:56,800
Speaker 1: and eight that the US government has been monitoring UFO

687
00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 1: activity for decades in secret, way after they said Project

688
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:04,280
Speaker 1: Blue Book was over. And furthermore, there are apparently rumour

689
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:07,400
Speaker 1: has that there are apparently two entire boxes of Projects

690
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 1: seventeen ninety four documents, but only a handful of images

691
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 1: have been digitized.

692
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, literally four that we were able to find in

693
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 2: making this episode.

694
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 1: So here's the problem. The story gets murky, right. The

695
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 1: closest thing we have to a real prototype is that

696
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 1: VZ nine Avrocar, and that prototype, by all accounts, was

697
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 1: a stinker. It was originally specified for max speed of

698
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 1: three hundred miles per hour with a ceiling of ten

699
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,320
Speaker 1: thousand feet instead of one hundred thousand, but in practice

700
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 1: it never got more than three feet off the ground.

701
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 1: Its top speed was thirty five miles per hour.

702
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:46,279
Speaker 2: This, yeah, I know.

703
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 1: Despite the Avrocar's failures, which were clear and apparent, it's

704
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 1: also clear and apparent that the US government was indeed

705
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 1: working on aircraft in the nineteen fifties that resembled flying saucers.

706
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:00,880
Speaker 1: Suffice to say, the US may have been working on

707
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 1: flying saucers back in the forties around the same time

708
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:08,239
Speaker 1: as the Roswell UFO incident. Now we're going, whoa, we're

709
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:09,839
Speaker 1: putting some strings together here.

710
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 3: Well, that's what I was going to ask. I mean,

711
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 3: you know, let's presuppose that they did discover some kind

712
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:17,799
Speaker 3: of craft at Roswell. Do you think it's possible that

713
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 3: they took a cue from some of that technology that

714
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:22,480
Speaker 3: they found. If in fact this happened and then tried

715
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 3: to apply it to you know, the design.

716
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 1: Maybe quite possibly.

717
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, and this that's why it was classified for so long,

718
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 3: even though they knew they weren't going to pursue it anymore,

719
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 3: because it would raise these questions.

720
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:37,920
Speaker 1: Maybe a Soviet saucer crashed and then they had to

721
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 1: make a whole dog and pony show about pretending to

722
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 1: invent the technology on their own. It's interesting, and that

723
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:49,319
Speaker 1: kind of duplicity does play into international affairs. It's fascinating,

724
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 1: it's addictive and tempting to think of what could have been.

725
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:55,400
Speaker 1: We do have an episode where we get as close

726
00:38:55,440 --> 00:39:00,360
Speaker 1: as we can to discerning the cause of that event

727
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 1: that's commonly called you know, roswell or groom leak, but

728
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 1: we don't want to spoil it for you.

729
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:08,319
Speaker 2: No, And I would highly yeah, I check it out.

730
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 2: I highly recommend the YouTube series that we made on

731
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 2: that tu Ben.

732
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 1: We did a YouTube series well on time Flies.

733
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:15,319
Speaker 2: Well.

734
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:19,800
Speaker 1: Unlike other experimental projects of the same era, this project

735
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 1: was fully canceled in December nineteen sixty one. That leaves

736
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 1: us with some troubling questions, why would you pour all

737
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:30,239
Speaker 1: of this money into something just a shelvet. Later, there

738
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,759
Speaker 1: are a couple of possibilities. First, one obvious when we

739
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:37,880
Speaker 1: could say it just didn't work, either because our engineering

740
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:40,759
Speaker 1: ability or our technology at the time was just inadequate

741
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 1: to solve the problems, or because the physics involved were

742
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:47,840
Speaker 1: beyond our ken as well.

743
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 3: And again, like we're talking about earlier, we know this

744
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 3: happens all the time with military prototypes. Oh, like they

745
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:58,239
Speaker 3: designed a circular ship. Remember that one terrible idea when

746
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:00,720
Speaker 3: the guns would fire, it was shoot the ship around

747
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:01,360
Speaker 3: in circles.

748
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 2: You know.

749
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:04,760
Speaker 3: It was somebody, some general or something. It was really

750
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 3: hot for this idea and was high up enough in

751
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 3: the you know, the military, that he got the dollars,

752
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 3: but it was an embarras terrible idea. Could very well

753
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:14,720
Speaker 3: be the case here. They don't like to admit defeat.

754
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 1: And then yeah, and then there was that there was

755
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:20,319
Speaker 1: that tank that was essentially a sphere that just had

756
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:28,080
Speaker 1: three guns randomly pointing out what, Oh it's great, really ridiculous. Well,

757
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 1: you have to earn it, you know, you have to

758
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:33,160
Speaker 1: earn these great innovations and not not everything is going

759
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:34,880
Speaker 1: to be the goose the least the golden egg. But

760
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 1: we do know that the military pursued something like this,

761
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:41,239
Speaker 1: and it's something that we're all familiar with today.

762
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 2: Right. Oh yeah, well we've brought it up a little

763
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 2: bit already in the show. But helicopters if you're if

764
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:48,880
Speaker 2: you want to have a vertical takeoff and landing solution,

765
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:51,720
Speaker 2: well guess what we got these things called helicopters.

766
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:54,760
Speaker 3: You can have bigger helicopters that have multiple propellers.

767
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:56,279
Speaker 2: Right, that's right. You know, they can't do a lot

768
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 2: of the things that the military wanted to do.

769
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:02,400
Speaker 3: Dives and such evasive maneuver is probably more difficult.

770
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:05,319
Speaker 2: And specifically getting as high into the atmosphere as these

771
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 2: vehicles are go anywhere near as fast as they wanted

772
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 2: these vehicles to go. There's some fast helicopters, but nothing

773
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:14,160
Speaker 2: like that. But what helicopters did do is fix that

774
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 2: problem that the military had, or at least the perceived

775
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 2: problem the military had, of these giant runways of their

776
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:24,399
Speaker 2: far flung bases and needing to have defense of those

777
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:27,840
Speaker 2: bases and as well as having aircraft that could deploy

778
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:31,399
Speaker 2: quickly and go up and down quickly. Rather than having

779
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 2: to take off with a big runway.

780
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:36,319
Speaker 1: So maybe they just found a compromise then, right, they said,

781
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:39,160
Speaker 1: this is what we can realistically do now.

782
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 2: It certainly seems like it. And the timing makes a

783
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 2: lot of sense here too, because if this the avrocar

784
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:49,560
Speaker 2: was canceled December nineteen sixty one. In early nineteen sixty two,

785
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:53,799
Speaker 2: that's when the US Air Force really started ramping up

786
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:58,800
Speaker 2: their training of personnel that can both fly and work

787
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:02,800
Speaker 2: on helicopters, like mechanics essentially pilots and mechanics, because.

788
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 3: They're like, this is the best we got, we better

789
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 3: just own it.

790
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, because again it's the Vietnam War really ramps up,

791
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 2: and that's when we see a lot more helicopters.

792
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:17,880
Speaker 1: Another possibility this was just one of many experiments or

793
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:22,360
Speaker 1: dabblings that a terrified government participated in. Maybe not so

794
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:25,880
Speaker 1: much because they thought it was practical, maybe more because

795
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 1: they were hoping to keep their ideological rivals, the USSR

796
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:37,400
Speaker 1: at bay. So many weird things come from the psychological

797
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 1: mind games of the Cold War. You know, we experimented

798
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:45,799
Speaker 1: with psychic powers esp astral travel, and were convinced many

799
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 1: people in the US military industrial complex. We're convinced that

800
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 1: not only were Soviet forces doing the same thing, but

801
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:55,920
Speaker 1: that they were doing it successfully. So they were like,

802
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 1: more money, teach that guy how to kill things with

803
00:42:58,680 --> 00:42:59,240
Speaker 1: his mind.

804
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:03,720
Speaker 2: So I've got, I've got. This is what I believe.

805
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 2: I'm just going to tell you. I'm going to tell

806
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 2: you my opinion right now.

807
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 3: Lay it on me.

808
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:10,719
Speaker 2: The reason why we only have four images, four pages

809
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:15,279
Speaker 2: from Projects seventeen ninety four is because it, rather than

810
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 2: being a reaction to some Soviet thing that we thought

811
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:23,240
Speaker 2: was happening, this is us trying to get the Soviet

812
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 2: Union to spend a crap load of money trying to

813
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 2: build one of these things, because we've already got this

814
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 2: design and it's going to do all these things. It's

815
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:33,479
Speaker 2: our psychological manipulation of them.

816
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:37,799
Speaker 1: Counterpoint, it would have to have leaked in some controllable way.

817
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:40,279
Speaker 2: They leaked it on purpose, I think, to some mole

818
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 2: that they knew was around.

819
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well that does lead us

820
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:50,000
Speaker 1: to one one more possibility. What if this is a

821
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:56,239
Speaker 1: cover story or something like it. You know, no, far

822
00:43:56,320 --> 00:44:00,040
Speaker 1: be it for us to sound two out there, but

823
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 1: it is common practice to run these games of deception.

824
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:08,879
Speaker 1: You know, tanks were called tanks because they were originally

825
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:13,360
Speaker 1: shipped under false you know, under false pretense, false papers.

826
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:16,480
Speaker 1: They were called water tanks, right, And it turned out

827
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 1: that they were these rolling weapons of mass destruction for

828
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 1: the time, It's completely understandable that people would say there

829
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:27,319
Speaker 1: was something else to the story. We have to keep

830
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:31,240
Speaker 1: in mind additionally that the US government and other world

831
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:36,400
Speaker 1: governments have had massive success suppressing technology in the past. Bombers,

832
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:37,880
Speaker 1: especially stealth bombers.

833
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:38,399
Speaker 2: Right.

834
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:41,360
Speaker 1: We grew up in an era where they were this

835
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 1: open secret and every so often popular mechanics would write

836
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 1: a piece saying, oh, maybe it's true, but it's not.

837
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 1: And it turns out they were totally true, were totally true,

838
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:55,319
Speaker 1: and they looked insane, like nothing you would ever see

839
00:44:55,520 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 1: so metal, you know what I mean. Right, So in conclusion, yes,

840
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 1: it turns out there are slash were real flying saucers.

841
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:08,200
Speaker 1: They were built here on Earth, and according to the

842
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 1: official narratives, they were what we in the automotive world

843
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:17,799
Speaker 1: would call lemons or real pieces is. However, the US

844
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 1: government and numerous aerospace companies have again proven themselves fully

845
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 1: capable of suppressing technology for some time. We just don't

846
00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 1: know how long that time horizon is.

847
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:32,160
Speaker 3: They call them lemons, guys, I don't know. Lemons are nice?

848
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 3: What's wrong with lemons?

849
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 2: Mmmm? It's just so sour?

850
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:38,759
Speaker 3: Maybe it implies if there's something wrong with it a

851
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 3: perfectly good lemon, is it's just that it's a lemon.

852
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:46,600
Speaker 1: According to the online Etymology Dictionary, no one really knows.

853
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:48,920
Speaker 1: There are a couple. There are a couple of possibilities.

854
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:51,120
Speaker 1: Lemon used to be slaying for a person who is

855
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 1: a quote loser or a simpleton, they would be dumb

856
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 1: as a lemon, I guess. And then there was British

857
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:01,399
Speaker 1: pool hall slang where a lemon game was a game

858
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 1: that was played by someone hustling. You.

859
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:06,400
Speaker 2: Oh, that makes more sense to me. Yeah, if it's

860
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:08,799
Speaker 2: a lemon, because the idea is you bottle lemon, right, not.

861
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 3: What you see, it's what you get, right, Like you're

862
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:13,719
Speaker 3: seeing this person who is looking like something but they're

863
00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:14,719
Speaker 3: actually something else.

864
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 2: There you go, there, you go.

865
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:19,760
Speaker 3: Well, now that we went down the etymological rabbit hole.

866
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:20,760
Speaker 1: How much do you like lemon?

867
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:20,960
Speaker 2: Do you?

868
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:22,880
Speaker 1: Are you somebody who just straight up eats lemons?

869
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 2: No?

870
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:25,359
Speaker 3: What I will tell you this. I bought these things.

871
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:28,439
Speaker 3: They are called superberry pills. Have you heard about this? Yeah, yeah, yeah,

872
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 3: And they make sour things taste sweet. So you can

873
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:33,120
Speaker 3: eat one of these pills and it fundamentally changes the

874
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:35,440
Speaker 3: way your taste buds perceive sourness and sweetest. So you

875
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:37,280
Speaker 3: can suck on a lemon and it tastes like sugar.

876
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:41,000
Speaker 1: I've been. I've been to the taste taste hacking parties too.

877
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 1: Those those things are pretty cool. It's an interesting experience

878
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 1: if you haven't tried it before, especially if you have

879
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:52,000
Speaker 1: some form of goustatory synaesthesia. I can only imagine what

880
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:55,880
Speaker 1: kind of colors you will see. It is completely possible

881
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:58,319
Speaker 1: that at least some of those UFO sightings back in

882
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:01,680
Speaker 1: the forties, well before the d classified memos mentioned AVRO,

883
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 1: could have been attributed to similar or other related projects.

884
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:08,440
Speaker 1: What kind I know that a lot of us listening

885
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:12,759
Speaker 1: now are saying, mention it. You guys, don't swindle us.

886
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:14,400
Speaker 1: You have to mention it on air or whatever you

887
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:20,480
Speaker 1: talk about this topic, Nazi UFOs, Nazi technology battle right right,

888
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:25,880
Speaker 1: or the Horton right. There is compelling evidence of innovative

889
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:30,359
Speaker 1: prototypes made by the Nazi regime around that time, and

890
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 1: we have various episodes all about it, so you can

891
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 1: check those out easily on our website stuff they don't

892
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:39,800
Speaker 1: want you to know, or YouTube or wherever you find

893
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:47,280
Speaker 1: your favorite shows and podcasts. All together though, factive flying saucers,

894
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 1: we're kind of real, yeah, even officially kind of real,

895
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 1: at least for a second. It makes you wonder what

896
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:56,640
Speaker 1: else is up there in the atmosphere today, you know

897
00:47:56,640 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 1: what I mean.

898
00:47:57,040 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 2: What do you think?

899
00:47:57,760 --> 00:47:58,239
Speaker 3: Let us know?

900
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:01,200
Speaker 1: Also, let us know what you think about helicopters. Have you, guys,

901
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:02,800
Speaker 1: ever been in a helicopter.

902
00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:04,720
Speaker 2: Only once or twice once?

903
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:09,520
Speaker 3: They're great? Have you seen those Chinook for sevens? Yes,

904
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:12,799
Speaker 3: those are the twin prop Yeah yeah, choppers yeah, and

905
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:16,160
Speaker 3: they were actually in development not far off from when

906
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:19,440
Speaker 3: this Avro deal was going on in nineteen fifty seven.

907
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:21,400
Speaker 3: By the vert, all company.

908
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:24,600
Speaker 1: People are trying to solve the same problem different ways exactly.

909
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:27,719
Speaker 1: There are also, depending on the city in which you live,

910
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:31,360
Speaker 1: there are helicopter tours, So I would say, unless they're

911
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:34,000
Speaker 1: super expensive, get on one if you can. It's a

912
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:34,880
Speaker 1: great date idea.

913
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:39,200
Speaker 3: And apparently in New York now Uber is operating helicopters

914
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 3: where you can get an uber helicopter to pick you

915
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:43,919
Speaker 3: up and take you to the airport. And it's only

916
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:46,680
Speaker 3: about the cost of a flight, you know, two hundred

917
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:49,839
Speaker 3: and fifty. Wow, But I'll tell you man, it's weird.

918
00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:52,239
Speaker 3: Flex a taking a lift or an uber to the

919
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 3: airport in New York City is a harrowing experience.

920
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 1: It's an endeavor, yees say a long time. People who

921
00:48:57,040 --> 00:49:00,400
Speaker 1: drive regularly in New York have made their peace with

922
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 1: the afterlife here every time they hop in.

923
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:04,239
Speaker 3: Special kind of sadists as well.

924
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:06,880
Speaker 1: I would say kudos to you road warriors also, and

925
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:09,839
Speaker 1: perhaps a little bit more in line with today's show,

926
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 1: let us know whether you think there is technology still

927
00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:18,600
Speaker 1: being suppressed today and if so, what we often hear

928
00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:22,239
Speaker 1: For instance that at least in the realm of software

929
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:27,080
Speaker 1: and algorithms, the NSSAY is far ahead of what would

930
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:33,880
Speaker 1: be considered viable or ethical in the public commercial sphere.

931
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 1: And that's our classic episode for this evening. We can't

932
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:42,440
Speaker 1: wait to hear your thoughts.

933
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:43,799
Speaker 3: It's right, let us know what you think you can

934
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:46,240
Speaker 3: reach to. They have a conspiracy stuff where we exist

935
00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:50,279
Speaker 3: on Facebook x and YouTube, on Instagram and TikTok or

936
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:51,359
Speaker 3: Conspiracy Stuff Show.

937
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 2: If you want to call us dial one eight three

938
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:58,880
Speaker 2: three std WYTK. That's our voicemail system. You've got three minutes.

939
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:01,120
Speaker 2: Give yourself a cool nick and let us know if

940
00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:03,239
Speaker 2: we can use your name and message on the air.

941
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:05,120
Speaker 2: If you got more to say than can fit in

942
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:07,959
Speaker 2: that voicemail, why not instead send us a good old

943
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:08,760
Speaker 2: fashioned email.

944
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:11,880
Speaker 1: We are the entities to read every single piece of

945
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:16,360
Speaker 1: correspondence we receive, be aware, yet not afraid. Sometimes the

946
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:39,000
Speaker 1: void writes back conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

947
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:41,240
Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production

948
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:45,879
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

949
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:48,840
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.