1
00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,439
Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff Mom Never told you. From how Supports

2
00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:14,760
Speaker 1: dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen

3
00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:21,279
Speaker 1: and I'm Caroline. And as this podcast is airing, Caroline,

4
00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:25,759
Speaker 1: you and I will be in California, sunny California, wearing

5
00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:29,680
Speaker 1: shorts and halt top sunglasses, riding in a convertible with

6
00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:33,200
Speaker 1: a with a giant lodge brimmed hat blowing in the wind.

7
00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:35,919
Speaker 1: That's right, none of that is actually happening. And none

8
00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:38,440
Speaker 1: of that is actually happening. But we are excited to

9
00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:43,080
Speaker 1: be going to Los Angeles for the Makers two thousand

10
00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:50,560
Speaker 1: fourteen conference, which essentially is a gathering of powerful, slightly

11
00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:55,200
Speaker 1: intimidating women and we have the privilege of going and

12
00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:58,600
Speaker 1: hanging out with them for a couple of days. Yeah,

13
00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:02,080
Speaker 1: and Kristen and I will be tweeting today from the conference.

14
00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:07,080
Speaker 1: My tweets will probably mostly consist of how nervous I am, Um,

15
00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:10,480
Speaker 1: oh lord, what do I talk about? My hands are sweating,

16
00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:12,920
Speaker 1: things like that. Yeah. And if you want to follow

17
00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:17,840
Speaker 1: the hashtag Makersteen to see tweets from other people who

18
00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:20,679
Speaker 1: will be at the conference, and you can follow along

19
00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:24,640
Speaker 1: that way, but you're only people might be wondering Makers,

20
00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:28,039
Speaker 1: What what is that? Yeah, Makers is actually we have

21
00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:31,080
Speaker 1: cited it on the podcast before talking about very important women.

22
00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:36,360
Speaker 1: But it's basically this digital video initiative to kind of

23
00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:39,960
Speaker 1: raise awareness about some incredible women and the contributions they've

24
00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:43,000
Speaker 1: made to our society at large. Yeah. It was started

25
00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:46,000
Speaker 1: by a woman named Dylan McGhee and it kicked off

26
00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:49,680
Speaker 1: with a documentary that aired on PBS called Makers, Women

27
00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:52,960
Speaker 1: Who Make America. And I watched it the first time

28
00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:56,360
Speaker 1: a while back, and I highly recommend it at least

29
00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:58,400
Speaker 1: the time. You could watch the whole thing. I think

30
00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:00,600
Speaker 1: it's three parts on pbo us and it's just a

31
00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:05,960
Speaker 1: great overview of women's history in the United States. Yeah,

32
00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:10,000
Speaker 1: and so the conference is serving to kind of take

33
00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:13,200
Speaker 1: all of this amazing history that's been basically archived in

34
00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:17,120
Speaker 1: one impressive place on the PBS website and put it

35
00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:19,480
Speaker 1: into action, bringing all of these women together to talk

36
00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:21,959
Speaker 1: about really amazing important things. And if you want to

37
00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:24,520
Speaker 1: find out more about Makers, you can just head over

38
00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:26,799
Speaker 1: to Makers dot com, where you probably gonna want to

39
00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:29,200
Speaker 1: hang out for a while because they have a massive

40
00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:33,359
Speaker 1: video archive of interviews with incredible women and the incredible

41
00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:36,880
Speaker 1: women we're going to focus on in today's podcast are

42
00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:42,800
Speaker 1: trailblazing women in comedy because Makers is actually working on

43
00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:47,800
Speaker 1: a full length documentary following Women in the Comedy Industry,

44
00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:51,280
Speaker 1: which I cannot wait to see. Um. It's scheduled to

45
00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:55,120
Speaker 1: air July eighth of this year, and it basically tracks

46
00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:57,680
Speaker 1: the rise of women in comedy from the seventies to

47
00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:00,200
Speaker 1: the eighties all the way up to today. Move these

48
00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:02,880
Speaker 1: like bridesmaids things like that. Yeah, And it's going to

49
00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:06,840
Speaker 1: include interviews with Chelsea Handler, Monique, Sarah Silverman, Lily Tomlin,

50
00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:10,639
Speaker 1: Carol Burnett and on and on and on and so

51
00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:13,560
Speaker 1: kind of too. Because we're so excited about the documentary

52
00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:16,520
Speaker 1: but we can't watch it yet. We're going to talk

53
00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:20,800
Speaker 1: about very briefly about the history of women in the

54
00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:26,240
Speaker 1: comedy industry. And first we have to start off with

55
00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:30,919
Speaker 1: the tale as old as time, which is the assumption

56
00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:36,680
Speaker 1: that women aren't funny. We just we are not funny, right,

57
00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:40,800
Speaker 1: And I think it's you can bust this myth with

58
00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:43,320
Speaker 1: just common sense. You don't even have to bring up

59
00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:45,960
Speaker 1: funny women or list funny women. You don't even have

60
00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:48,760
Speaker 1: to look at anything like that. It's so easy to

61
00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:52,880
Speaker 1: think about the fact that women traditionally are supposed to

62
00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:55,240
Speaker 1: be in a more submissive role, right, We're supposed to

63
00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:57,960
Speaker 1: be a little more polite, a little more quiet. Men

64
00:03:58,000 --> 00:03:59,880
Speaker 1: are the ones who are supposed to get up in

65
00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,200
Speaker 1: front of people and be funny, and they can be loud,

66
00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:05,280
Speaker 1: and they can be dirty. And so if women never

67
00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:08,440
Speaker 1: had the chance to get up and be funny, which

68
00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:14,080
Speaker 1: they finally started doing in the fifties sixties onward, um,

69
00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:16,000
Speaker 1: you know, there was no way they could disprove that.

70
00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:22,760
Speaker 1: But the most recent horrible opinion column basically about this

71
00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:25,640
Speaker 1: topic was the big one in two thousand seven from

72
00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:28,440
Speaker 1: the late Christopher Hitchens. Yeah, he read a piece for

73
00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:33,719
Speaker 1: Vanity Fair called women Aren't Funny. And in pretty much

74
00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:39,160
Speaker 1: any article that you read today talking about women in comedy,

75
00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:43,120
Speaker 1: you hear about two things you're about Christopher Hitchens, women

76
00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:48,560
Speaker 1: aren't funny Vanity Fair, Peace, and then bridesmaids every single time.

77
00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:52,279
Speaker 1: And in a nutshell Hitchens says that women aren't funny

78
00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:57,560
Speaker 1: because of our more maternal nature's evolutionarily, we just don't

79
00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:01,880
Speaker 1: have a capacity for humor. We because we are, like

80
00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:04,799
Speaker 1: you said, more submissive and are more kind of self

81
00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:09,279
Speaker 1: protective and I don't even care to go in depth

82
00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:14,080
Speaker 1: on it because the funny thing, ha ha, is that

83
00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:17,440
Speaker 1: hitchens idea is by no means new, even though it

84
00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:21,080
Speaker 1: got so much attention that people are still talking about

85
00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:23,600
Speaker 1: it all the time. But hey, let's go back to

86
00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:27,719
Speaker 1: I don't know eighteen forty two, shall we? What happened

87
00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:30,800
Speaker 1: in eighteen forty two? Well, Caroline in eighteen forty two,

88
00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:36,320
Speaker 1: a contributor to Graham's magazine and an esteemed publication I'm sure,

89
00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:40,360
Speaker 1: claimed quote there is a body in substance to true wit,

90
00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:44,880
Speaker 1: with a reflectiveness rarely found apart from a masculine intellect.

91
00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:49,800
Speaker 1: The female character does not admit of it. Interesting. Yeah,

92
00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:53,119
Speaker 1: And in nineteen o one Harper's Bizarre asked, have Women

93
00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:57,280
Speaker 1: a Sense of Humor? Well? That is so original, Hitchens.

94
00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:00,880
Speaker 1: Not to disparage the work of someone who is no

95
00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:04,800
Speaker 1: longer with us, I think it's okay, But isn't that incredible? Though?

96
00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:09,000
Speaker 1: That's that's nineteen o one Harper's bizarre article basically positing

97
00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:12,760
Speaker 1: the exact same thing. And by the way, these are

98
00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:18,080
Speaker 1: old magazine pieces were cited in Kristen Anderson Wagner's Have

99
00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:21,640
Speaker 1: Women a Sense of humor, comedy, and femininity in early

100
00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:26,559
Speaker 1: twentieth century film. And beyond the Harper's Bizarre article, there

101
00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:30,800
Speaker 1: are other citations, For instance, in nineteen o nine, a

102
00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:34,919
Speaker 1: newspaper saying that quote, you do not find much in

103
00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:37,919
Speaker 1: women to arouse your sense of humor. Measured by the

104
00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:41,560
Speaker 1: ordinary standards of humor. She's about as comical as a crutch,

105
00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:46,200
Speaker 1: or as comical as a tampon. So what is it though?

106
00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:50,040
Speaker 1: I mean, because like, I can understand how in nineteen

107
00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:54,040
Speaker 1: o nine women might have been seen as humor lists

108
00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:56,520
Speaker 1: compared to today, but like everyone in nineteen o nine

109
00:06:56,520 --> 00:07:01,320
Speaker 1: would have been. My stereotype of that era is generally

110
00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:05,600
Speaker 1: that everybody was coughing uncomfortably all the time, kind of

111
00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:07,920
Speaker 1: the way my dad does when like something racy comes

112
00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:11,320
Speaker 1: on TV. Like, I just imagine early twentieth century, late

113
00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:14,120
Speaker 1: nineteenth century just everybody doing that all the time. Yeah,

114
00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:16,440
Speaker 1: in my mind's eye, it just looks like a Daguero

115
00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:22,240
Speaker 1: type where it's all tones, it's everything is kin burns

116
00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:28,960
Speaker 1: the Civil War. But Anderson really eloquently nails how the

117
00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:33,960
Speaker 1: late nineteenth century femininity constructs that we then here bleeding

118
00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:38,200
Speaker 1: into those articles in the early nineteen hundreds are at

119
00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:43,000
Speaker 1: odds with comedy because during the Victorian era you have

120
00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:48,680
Speaker 1: this thing called the cult of true womanhood arising. And

121
00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:52,679
Speaker 1: Anderson writes the inherently aggressive nature of comedy is also

122
00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:56,679
Speaker 1: diametrically opposed to the cultural idea of femininity as defined

123
00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,000
Speaker 1: at the turn of the twenties century, with its emphasis

124
00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:05,400
Speaker 1: on submissive this deference and passivity, comedians deliver punchlines and

125
00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:09,160
Speaker 1: kill their audience. I mean, do you agree, Do you

126
00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:14,200
Speaker 1: agree that comedy is opposed to the traditional idea of femininity? Yeah,

127
00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:17,680
Speaker 1: I think it is because when you even today, for

128
00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:22,680
Speaker 1: funny women on stage, there's still this even though we're

129
00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,240
Speaker 1: breaking out of it more and more, there's still these

130
00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:29,600
Speaker 1: questions of how pretty can you be? How like how

131
00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:34,120
Speaker 1: much sex appeal can you deliver? Does it need to

132
00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:37,880
Speaker 1: hinge on self deprecation? Do you essentially need to mask

133
00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:42,760
Speaker 1: your femininity in order to be accepted as someone who

134
00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:46,000
Speaker 1: can be as funny as a dude? And a lot

135
00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:49,480
Speaker 1: of comedians, especially early comedians, would say yes. A lot

136
00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:52,719
Speaker 1: of the women who were groundbreakers and trailblazers said that

137
00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:56,720
Speaker 1: they absolutely had to dress a certain way, look a

138
00:08:56,760 --> 00:09:00,360
Speaker 1: certain way, speak a certain way so that men wouldn't

139
00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:03,360
Speaker 1: be staring at them and being confused when comedian said,

140
00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:05,079
Speaker 1: you know, you can't look too sexy up there, because

141
00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:07,400
Speaker 1: you'll just confuse men as to whether they're supposed to

142
00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:09,800
Speaker 1: laugh at you or you know, ugle you. Yeah. And

143
00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:13,600
Speaker 1: there's also the issue to that that women comedy delivered

144
00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:19,240
Speaker 1: by women is women's comedy, whereas guys on stage or

145
00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:23,839
Speaker 1: just comedians were just they're just being there, just being funny, right,

146
00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:26,920
Speaker 1: And I mean that is gender issues in a microcosmic

147
00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:31,400
Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen. That women are gendered, male is neutral. Yeah.

148
00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:37,840
Speaker 1: And it's this relationship with femininity, gender and comedy that

149
00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:44,000
Speaker 1: makes it really significant what these groundbreaking, hilarious women have

150
00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:47,480
Speaker 1: done and why it's I don't know it meaningful to

151
00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:53,360
Speaker 1: talk about comedy because just taken by itself, comedy is

152
00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:57,880
Speaker 1: such a powerful force for social critique, whether we're talking

153
00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:01,719
Speaker 1: about gender or talking about ray or talking about I mean,

154
00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:05,559
Speaker 1: even George Carlin words that you can and can't say, right,

155
00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:09,200
Speaker 1: And Nancy Walker, in a very serious thing Women's Humor

156
00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:12,280
Speaker 1: in American Culture points this out. She says, an essential

157
00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:15,400
Speaker 1: purpose of humor is to call the norm into question.

158
00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:17,920
Speaker 1: The humor of those on the threshold is apt to

159
00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,280
Speaker 1: reveal a perception of incongruity that not only questions the

160
00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:24,959
Speaker 1: rules of culture but also suggests a different order. Yeah,

161
00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:29,120
Speaker 1: and there have been plenty of female comedians on stage

162
00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:33,240
Speaker 1: and in film since the early nineteen hundreds. Um, but

163
00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:36,280
Speaker 1: we're not really going to get into more of women

164
00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:40,960
Speaker 1: in Hollywood in comedy, or even vaudeville and burlesque, which

165
00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:44,440
Speaker 1: were early stages for women to do funnier acts, even

166
00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:48,040
Speaker 1: though they usually had either a male sidekick or they

167
00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:52,720
Speaker 1: would do it through song and dance routines. And instead,

168
00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:55,720
Speaker 1: in this episode, we're really going to focus on women

169
00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:59,800
Speaker 1: in the comedy industry, talking about doing stand up, improv,

170
00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:04,839
Speaker 1: sketch and things really start to take off in the

171
00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:09,760
Speaker 1: late nineteen fifties and sixties with three women, Philis Stiller,

172
00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:13,920
Speaker 1: Elaine May, and a name will be familiar to probably

173
00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:17,760
Speaker 1: all of you, Joan Rivers. It's so funny to read

174
00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:21,480
Speaker 1: about her early career taking off and becoming this kind

175
00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:25,240
Speaker 1: of body comedian. Um and thinking of her now where

176
00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:28,920
Speaker 1: she's just talking about celebrity, young celebrity women and how

177
00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:32,280
Speaker 1: awful their dresses are. Yeah, she's just the insult comic,

178
00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:36,760
Speaker 1: just always being snarky, right, And all of this is

179
00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:40,760
Speaker 1: coming from the very heavily publicized We Killed the Rise

180
00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:44,080
Speaker 1: of Women in American Comedy by yah L Cohen Um

181
00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:46,960
Speaker 1: and her book was initially inspired by her two thousand

182
00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:50,960
Speaker 1: nine Marie Claire article, which was basically an oral history

183
00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:55,320
Speaker 1: talking to big names in comedy like Kathy Griffin, Rosanne

184
00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:58,600
Speaker 1: Joy Behar and Janine Garoffalo. Yeah, and she was just

185
00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:03,280
Speaker 1: asking them about issues of attractiveness on stage, whether you

186
00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:06,440
Speaker 1: had to downplay, whether stand up is as much of

187
00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:09,560
Speaker 1: a boy's club as you would assume it is. Answer, Yeah,

188
00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:12,520
Speaker 1: pretty much, and kind of how they banded together to

189
00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:17,720
Speaker 1: break through the ranks, breakthrough the what's termed the crass

190
00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:22,960
Speaker 1: ceiling that exists. Um. And so the first person though,

191
00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:28,240
Speaker 1: that Cohen really highlights is Phyllis Diller, who was a

192
00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:33,760
Speaker 1: Bob Hope style comic who intentionally wore unflattering outfits and

193
00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:37,880
Speaker 1: she was always dissing on her husband Fang and her

194
00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:41,000
Speaker 1: sister in law she called Captain Blood. And I'm laughing

195
00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:46,280
Speaker 1: because I feel so old saying this out loud, But Caroline,

196
00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:50,640
Speaker 1: in preparation for this podcast, I watched some Philistillers stand

197
00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:54,320
Speaker 1: up yesterday and I was home alone laughing out loud

198
00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:59,439
Speaker 1: to the Ed Sullivan Show. You know she was funny, Yeah, well,

199
00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:02,120
Speaker 1: I mean she was also shocking in her in her funniness.

200
00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:04,920
Speaker 1: And what's funny about the way that she her humor

201
00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:08,480
Speaker 1: was very much I wouldn't say it's observation base the

202
00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:10,320
Speaker 1: way that a lot of modern comedy is, but it

203
00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:12,720
Speaker 1: was very much like talking about her life and using

204
00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:14,520
Speaker 1: that as a base of humor. But what's funny about

205
00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:16,160
Speaker 1: talking about her husband and making him out to be

206
00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:19,000
Speaker 1: the brute is in in real life I r L.

207
00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:22,200
Speaker 1: It was actually her husband who encouraged her to pursue

208
00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:24,920
Speaker 1: this career in comedy, like they needed extra money. She

209
00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:27,120
Speaker 1: was working these various jobs and he was the one

210
00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:30,280
Speaker 1: who was like, you're funny, go be a comedian. Yeah,

211
00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:33,240
Speaker 1: And she ended up becoming the first female stand up

212
00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:37,920
Speaker 1: to garner mass mainstream appeal. And it's also significant that

213
00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:40,840
Speaker 1: she didn't get her start through vaudeville, which was the

214
00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:43,520
Speaker 1: at that point, the route that you took to get

215
00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:46,719
Speaker 1: any kind of notoriety as as a funny lady. And

216
00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:49,480
Speaker 1: she and she didn't have, you know, a male sidekick.

217
00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:52,319
Speaker 1: You had someone like Gracie Allen at the time, who

218
00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:54,520
Speaker 1: was very popular, but she was sort of a comic

219
00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:58,199
Speaker 1: foil to her husband on stage. So I mean Diller

220
00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:01,319
Speaker 1: just went out on her own. I mean she found

221
00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:05,120
Speaker 1: an agent and started doing these clubs, and her her

222
00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:07,839
Speaker 1: style is so old school and that it's all just

223
00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:10,680
Speaker 1: like set up punchlines, set up punchline. Mean, she doesn't

224
00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:15,000
Speaker 1: stop and she'll she'll just laugh at herself the whole time,

225
00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:18,040
Speaker 1: and it's incredible, Like how many like she can just

226
00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:21,000
Speaker 1: keep going and going and going. Yeah, but I liked

227
00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:24,280
Speaker 1: reading about how she found her her style, her niche,

228
00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:27,560
Speaker 1: her voice, because you know, people didn't really know what

229
00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:29,120
Speaker 1: to do with her. They didn't know what to make

230
00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:33,080
Speaker 1: of her. She was very skinny, very small. Um, you know,

231
00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:36,120
Speaker 1: on stage she often camouflaged her body, but you know,

232
00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:38,360
Speaker 1: she didn't want to be she didn't want to be

233
00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:40,840
Speaker 1: seen for that. But when she first started out, you know,

234
00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:43,600
Speaker 1: people were putting her on stage in these crazy outfits

235
00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:45,360
Speaker 1: and having her sing and try to be sexy, and

236
00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:47,880
Speaker 1: it was just like, no, that's not that's not what

237
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:52,440
Speaker 1: philis Stiller's all about. But she definitely kept wearing as

238
00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:56,480
Speaker 1: unflattering clothes as possible, and she constantly, throughout her routines

239
00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:59,600
Speaker 1: makes fun of her body. But when she's talking off

240
00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:02,200
Speaker 1: stage age she said something along the lines of like, well,

241
00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,760
Speaker 1: I have a fabulous figure, but women wouldn't like me

242
00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:09,800
Speaker 1: if I come out looking like I do in real life,

243
00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:12,840
Speaker 1: which is like a model. Yeah. And she said that

244
00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:15,400
Speaker 1: she basically wore an equivalent to like a potato sack

245
00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:17,680
Speaker 1: because to cover up her breath, so that it would

246
00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:19,920
Speaker 1: just be assumed that to go along with her slim figure,

247
00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:22,200
Speaker 1: that she was also flat chested. That it just worked

248
00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:24,960
Speaker 1: to her favor, to her whole her whole bit. Yeah,

249
00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:27,080
Speaker 1: and so just sort of as a sign of the

250
00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:30,720
Speaker 1: times when she was starting to really make a name

251
00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:36,000
Speaker 1: for herself. Uh. Cohen's cites a nineteen sixty one review

252
00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:39,000
Speaker 1: in The New York Times which says Phillis Diller, who

253
00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:41,240
Speaker 1: was installed for a four week run at the Bonsoir

254
00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:44,040
Speaker 1: in Greenwich Village, is the leading member of that rare

255
00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:48,520
Speaker 1: breed of nightclub entertainer, the female stand up comic. But

256
00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:51,320
Speaker 1: don't you think you would still hear that something like

257
00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:56,480
Speaker 1: that today? Yes? Yeah, yeah, absolutely, because I feel like

258
00:15:56,520 --> 00:16:00,000
Speaker 1: somebody like Sara Silverman would be discussed in this exact

259
00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:03,360
Speaker 1: same manner or tone, like the way. I mean, you know,

260
00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:05,480
Speaker 1: I won't go off into a whole Sarah Silverman thing,

261
00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:07,400
Speaker 1: but you know, just the way that she was talked

262
00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:10,040
Speaker 1: about at that roast. I can't even remember who it

263
00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:13,240
Speaker 1: was for. Was it Charlie Sheen, but anyway, like everybody

264
00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:15,400
Speaker 1: who got up there and who picked on her was

265
00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:20,240
Speaker 1: picking on her age. It was like a very like, wow,

266
00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:22,200
Speaker 1: that's the only joke you have to make about this

267
00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:26,520
Speaker 1: particular person who happens to be a woman. Good job everybody. Yeah, yeah,

268
00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:29,800
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's incredible how much progress has been

269
00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:33,480
Speaker 1: made and yet still I mean even here, if we

270
00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:37,000
Speaker 1: go out to stand up shows, to open mics, there

271
00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:39,720
Speaker 1: are far more guys who are going to get up

272
00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,320
Speaker 1: on stage. Well yeah, and a part of that is

273
00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:44,440
Speaker 1: I can't remember who said this, but they said something

274
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:47,000
Speaker 1: to the effect of like, you know, a woman, if

275
00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:49,320
Speaker 1: she gets booed or nobody laughs, she's going to be like, oh,

276
00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,360
Speaker 1: I'm terrible, I'm not funny, whereas a man will just

277
00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:55,000
Speaker 1: kind of keep pushing through and be like get better

278
00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:59,320
Speaker 1: through the process of just continuing to go up having

279
00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:01,640
Speaker 1: that confidence and himself like ask for them. I'm fine,

280
00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:05,200
Speaker 1: I'm funny. Well that's interesting too. Like speaking of Sarah Silverman,

281
00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:09,399
Speaker 1: I forget who was telling the story about when she

282
00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:13,919
Speaker 1: was briefly on SNL and they were let go and

283
00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:18,359
Speaker 1: that night Silverman's friend wanted to just go out and

284
00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:21,680
Speaker 1: get drunk and forget about everything, and Silverman went out

285
00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:24,159
Speaker 1: and did stand up and that, and her friend was

286
00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:25,760
Speaker 1: saying like, well, then that's when I knew she was

287
00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:28,720
Speaker 1: going to make it, because we had just been canned

288
00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:31,520
Speaker 1: by Lauren Michaels and she wanted to go do stand up,

289
00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:33,760
Speaker 1: which is like the most brutal thing that you can

290
00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:38,000
Speaker 1: do to yourself. Yeah. Well, so another big name we

291
00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:41,479
Speaker 1: have to talk about is Elaine May, and her roots

292
00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:46,280
Speaker 1: really in comedy could not be more different from Phili Stiller's. Yeah,

293
00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:50,040
Speaker 1: she was. She had a little more of cerebral theatery roots.

294
00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:53,280
Speaker 1: I think she came up in Chicago and Second City

295
00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:57,840
Speaker 1: when they were first forming as more of a not

296
00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:01,040
Speaker 1: so much a comedic group, but it just kind of

297
00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:06,280
Speaker 1: these improvised plays, sort of absurdist type performances that weren't

298
00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:08,359
Speaker 1: necessarily meant to be comedy. They were just meant to

299
00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:11,840
Speaker 1: portray life. Yeah, yeah, And she hit the big time

300
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:18,240
Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty nine with her like improviser partner Mike Nichols,

301
00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:22,440
Speaker 1: and then we killed. Cohen notes how they're dynamic with sharp,

302
00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:26,960
Speaker 1: neurotic and unabashedly intellectual, making a strong departure from the

303
00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:32,000
Speaker 1: eras other male duos, and Elaine may eventually broke out

304
00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:35,240
Speaker 1: on her own sum but I had to google image

305
00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:37,679
Speaker 1: her when I was reading about her, and then I

306
00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:40,600
Speaker 1: recognized her from seeing her in some old films. But

307
00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:44,359
Speaker 1: she never really Um, I don't think she's definitely not

308
00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:47,800
Speaker 1: as much of a household name as someone like Philis Diller. Right. Well,

309
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:51,399
Speaker 1: they write about how she, you know, hates publicity. She

310
00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:53,040
Speaker 1: doesn't want to do all that stuff. When The New

311
00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:55,800
Speaker 1: York Times asked to interviewers, she said, sure, as long

312
00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:59,199
Speaker 1: as I can interview myself. And um, I think it

313
00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:02,280
Speaker 1: was Paul Julie was talking about how much he just

314
00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:06,520
Speaker 1: freaking loved her interview because she was making fun of everything.

315
00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:08,960
Speaker 1: You know. She she wrote the question, you know, what

316
00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:11,600
Speaker 1: is most important to you as an actress, and then

317
00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:15,640
Speaker 1: she wrote the answer good grooming. Well. Juley talks about

318
00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:18,399
Speaker 1: how he like doubled over laughing because she didn't give

319
00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:21,400
Speaker 1: you know, a good gosh darn about grooming at all.

320
00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:23,760
Speaker 1: And so I think that was more of her way.

321
00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:25,960
Speaker 1: She didn't want the publicity, she didn't want the startom.

322
00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:27,960
Speaker 1: She just kind of wanted to do her own thing.

323
00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:31,080
Speaker 1: And I also thought it was interesting too how in

324
00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:36,000
Speaker 1: UM people's interviews about her, a couple brought up that

325
00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:40,000
Speaker 1: she had a reputation among people who didn't know her

326
00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:45,760
Speaker 1: for being really domineering and rude, and essentially that if

327
00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:48,480
Speaker 1: she didn't like how a scene was going or something, she,

328
00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:52,359
Speaker 1: like any other male performer would say stop, you know,

329
00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:57,680
Speaker 1: like she eventually like voiced, essentially voiced her own concerns. Yet,

330
00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:00,400
Speaker 1: and this was something that Carol Burnett brings up as well.

331
00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:04,080
Speaker 1: Yet that was like if you were a woman doing

332
00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:08,800
Speaker 1: that speaking up for yourself, then you were penalized. Yeah.

333
00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:10,919
Speaker 1: One of the actors said when he worked with her, like,

334
00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:12,840
Speaker 1: you know, she was great, She was professional, she was

335
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:15,560
Speaker 1: a sweetheart, she was funny, she was really smart, and

336
00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:21,600
Speaker 1: he never saw that that rumored you know, B word No. Yeah,

337
00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:26,800
Speaker 1: but but in terms of B wordness, Joan Rivers certainly

338
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:30,800
Speaker 1: embraces it. UM she comes along a little later on

339
00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:34,840
Speaker 1: after Diller and Elaine May have made a name for themselves,

340
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:38,320
Speaker 1: and she becomes really the first female comic to kind

341
00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:42,320
Speaker 1: of air her laundry about being a single woman with

342
00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:45,520
Speaker 1: a mom who wants her to get married yesterday, and

343
00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:52,920
Speaker 1: significantly she does not try to hide her attractiveness right

344
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:58,000
Speaker 1: and writing about her act and Q magazine, Eugene Bow writes,

345
00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:01,919
Speaker 1: Joan Second City Hers is a very funny fem in

346
00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:05,119
Speaker 1: search of an act. Her unmeasured monologue contains some of

347
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:07,440
Speaker 1: the sharpest, smartest talk to proceed out of the mouth

348
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:11,439
Speaker 1: of a babe. Since Elane May, female comics are usually

349
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,639
Speaker 1: horrors who desects themselves for a laugh. And so this

350
00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,800
Speaker 1: writer sounds like so relieved that there is a woman

351
00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:20,639
Speaker 1: who's good to look at while she's talking. Yeah, And

352
00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:24,359
Speaker 1: and I also went back and watched some Joan Rivers

353
00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:28,560
Speaker 1: stand up. And while personally I kind of can't stand

354
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:31,240
Speaker 1: Joan Rivers today because it's just you know, and I

355
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:33,400
Speaker 1: got her stick, all right, You're not gonna like much

356
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:35,879
Speaker 1: of any way that a woman looks, and you always

357
00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:38,080
Speaker 1: have a one liner. But she was funny, like her

358
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:42,840
Speaker 1: observational humor about relationships and dating dynamics from the nineteen

359
00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:47,199
Speaker 1: sixties honestly could be delivered on a stage today and

360
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:51,280
Speaker 1: still hold up in terms of, like, you know, she

361
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:53,000
Speaker 1: she was talking going on and on in the bit

362
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:56,919
Speaker 1: that I was watching about age, where when she was

363
00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:00,880
Speaker 1: twenty six and single, it was like she was ninety,

364
00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:03,160
Speaker 1: whereas if you're a nine year old guy, you're still

365
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:07,680
Speaker 1: somehow datable, yea, those kinds of things. But so we've

366
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:11,080
Speaker 1: been doing all of this talking about some amazing trailblazers

367
00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:14,000
Speaker 1: in comedy, and we're going to talk about a few

368
00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:16,879
Speaker 1: more when we come back from this quick break. And

369
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:19,520
Speaker 1: now back to the show. So when we left off,

370
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:23,359
Speaker 1: we had talked about three women who made it big

371
00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:26,879
Speaker 1: more on the stage than on the screen. That's Phil Stiller,

372
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:29,680
Speaker 1: Elaine May and Joan Rivers. But now we're up to

373
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:35,840
Speaker 1: nineteen when the Carol Burnett Show launches, and this is

374
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,520
Speaker 1: You might have seen it on Nick at Night before,

375
00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:42,040
Speaker 1: but this was a huge deal. And since this is

376
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:44,680
Speaker 1: our Makers of Comedy episode, we should not that Carol

377
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:48,640
Speaker 1: Burnett is a maker. Yeah she is, and I love her,

378
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:51,040
Speaker 1: and my father loves her, and I bought my dad

379
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:54,199
Speaker 1: Carol Burnett DVDs for his birthday this past year, and

380
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:56,480
Speaker 1: we sat around and watched them and and it's great

381
00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,639
Speaker 1: because you can really nerd out over Carol Burnett because

382
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 1: the dv d s are not only the show itself,

383
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,439
Speaker 1: but a lot of interviews and talking to her and

384
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:07,480
Speaker 1: the rest of the cast and all that good stuff.

385
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 1: And and the thing that I came away with from

386
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:14,640
Speaker 1: that was, you know, just like, Carol Burnett's an amazing person.

387
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:18,720
Speaker 1: You know, she's super talented, super funny. She has such

388
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:22,440
Speaker 1: a great uh instinct for comedy and such a great

389
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,239
Speaker 1: vision for what she wanted her show to be. And

390
00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 1: she is the first woman to host a TV variety show.

391
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:33,200
Speaker 1: And funnily enough, she grew up in Hollywood, but then

392
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:37,120
Speaker 1: moved to New York, where she ended up getting Broadway gigs,

393
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 1: which then eventually led to a supporting actress role with CBS.

394
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:45,480
Speaker 1: And she was really successful with CBS. So she ended

395
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:49,440
Speaker 1: up with a contract that has stipulation in it that

396
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 1: she could have her own show and any kind of

397
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:57,120
Speaker 1: show that she wanted, and so she wanted a variety show.

398
00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:00,840
Speaker 1: She wanted a variety show, and CBS was like wait, wait, no,

399
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,080
Speaker 1: uh no, I don't think you're you have lady parts.

400
00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:07,879
Speaker 1: I don't think you can do that. That's a man thing. Um.

401
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,320
Speaker 1: So they actually pitched her a pilot for a show

402
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 1: called Here's Agnes. Here's Agnes. Now, while I would be

403
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:20,240
Speaker 1: curious to watch a show called Here's Agnes, that, I mean,

404
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:22,800
Speaker 1: like what a letdown that would have been. Yeah, that's

405
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:24,720
Speaker 1: just gonna be her. I just picture her in like

406
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,159
Speaker 1: the Cramer role, like opening the door every day and

407
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:31,639
Speaker 1: everybody's like, here's Agnes, Agnes and there's like a like

408
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:35,200
Speaker 1: a horn tuting in the background whenever that happens. Um.

409
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 1: But she stuck to her guns though, and said, oh, hey,

410
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:43,439
Speaker 1: actually no, contractually, you are bound to give me the

411
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:45,359
Speaker 1: kind of show that I want. So they had to

412
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,240
Speaker 1: do the Variety Show, and she talks about how it

413
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 1: was so apparent when they first started filming that CBS

414
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 1: did not think it had a snowball's chance in hell

415
00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 1: of lasting. But lo and behold, it ended up running

416
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:05,119
Speaker 1: from nineteen sixty seven to nineteen seventy eight. Yeah, she

417
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 1: ended up earning six Emmys and two Golden Globes for

418
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 1: her show. And I mean, what, what, like that's like

419
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:15,640
Speaker 1: pie in the face of CBS. You know, just like,

420
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,720
Speaker 1: this show was so successful and it was run by

421
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:23,359
Speaker 1: a woman. Imagine that. Yeah, and Splitsider says that Burnett

422
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,879
Speaker 1: became the first breakout female sketch player in TV history

423
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 1: and paved the way for women in sketch comedy. Yeah,

424
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 1: and she this woman, I mean, she was so willing

425
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:35,480
Speaker 1: to dive into any type of character. I mean, whether

426
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 1: it's the dizzy secretary or whoever. I mean, she could

427
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 1: pull it off. Now. She did like the more serious

428
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 1: kind of you know, cheesy musical numbers on the show

429
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:48,200
Speaker 1: as well. But I mean she was obviously so talented. Yeah,

430
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 1: and I mean, and it's still funny today to watch.

431
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 1: And meanwhile, and probably partially due to the success of

432
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 1: Carol Burnett, you also have shows coming on the air

433
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 1: like Mary Tyler Moore that launches in seventy the spin

434
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,200
Speaker 1: off Rhoda that comes out in nineteen seventy four, and

435
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:14,680
Speaker 1: significantly in nineteen the very first episode of Saturday Night Live, right,

436
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:16,919
Speaker 1: and Saturday Night Live is kind of the show that

437
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 1: everybody talks about when you're going to talk about women

438
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:21,879
Speaker 1: in comedy. It's seen. It's a part plays a big

439
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 1: part in Cohen's book as well. Um, but those first

440
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 1: those original SNL women, Gilda Radner, Jane Curtin, and Lorraine

441
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,359
Speaker 1: Newman are just kind of held up as like the

442
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 1: end all be all, you know, the great trailblazers of comedy,

443
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 1: whereas the show itself maybe is not as welcoming. Yeah,

444
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:46,400
Speaker 1: because especially for someone like Jane curtain like, whose role

445
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,399
Speaker 1: commonly was to play sort of a straight woman or

446
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:55,879
Speaker 1: an attractive bimbo um and not everyone on the show

447
00:26:56,320 --> 00:27:00,879
Speaker 1: thought that women were capable of comedy either. And SNL

448
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:02,680
Speaker 1: you know, I mean SNL has been in the news

449
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:08,199
Speaker 1: again for not having any women of color. Uh, and

450
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 1: so they recently hired two African American lady writers and

451
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 1: an actress. So there's that. Yeah, so shares the mata

452
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 1: um became. I mean, like it must have been so

453
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 1: intimidating for her to premiere on Saturday Night Live because

454
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,399
Speaker 1: the entire internet was talking about her being the first

455
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:30,640
Speaker 1: black woman hired since Maya Rudolph left what six years ago,

456
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 1: And it's almost like the entire weight of black women

457
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 1: in comedy was placed upon her shoulders. Yeah. Well, I

458
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:40,879
Speaker 1: mean it's the same thing that you said earlier about

459
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,359
Speaker 1: like you know, women apparently can't, you know. The stereotype

460
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 1: is that women can't speak for everyone, that only men

461
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 1: can speak for everyone. And it's the same thing that like,

462
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:53,360
Speaker 1: surely black women can't speak for all people. That's so strange,

463
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 1: what a strange notion. They're not only women, but they're black,

464
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 1: and that is weird. Yeah, I mean, they're even more marginalized.

465
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 1: We talk about having a tough road to hoe in comedy,

466
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:05,680
Speaker 1: not only you know, as women, but also as women

467
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 1: of color, where even more so it's assumed that there

468
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:12,959
Speaker 1: I guess, I don't know, like comedic worldview is going

469
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,439
Speaker 1: to be too narrow or something like that. But but

470
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 1: which is mind blowing of the fact that one of

471
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 1: the reasons why SNL started searching desperately and quickly for

472
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:31,439
Speaker 1: um black comic is that Keenan Thompson, who is you know,

473
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,880
Speaker 1: a black comic on Saturday Night Live, basically said, oh, listen,

474
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 1: I'm not going to play anymore black women on the

475
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 1: show because I'm sick of it, fair enough. But then

476
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 1: he said, well, and they can't bring any any women

477
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 1: on too, you know, because there aren't enough who are

478
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 1: prepared to do this, Which come on, man, don't do that. Yeah,

479
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 1: I mean I didn't. I read that. I didn't keep

480
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 1: up with all the discussions about it online. Was there

481
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 1: any possibility that he was trying to light a fire

482
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 1: under the SNL people or was he honestly like there's

483
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 1: not enough good black comics. I think he could have

484
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 1: stopped at I'm not gonna dress and drag because you

485
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 1: don't have me. Yeah, I think that because it's like, hey,

486
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 1: that's good. Oh wait, no, that's um. But it's also

487
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 1: significant too that they brought on the Kendertooks and Leslie

488
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 1: Jones as the first two black women writers on the show,

489
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 1: because the writers matter as well. It's not just the

490
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 1: people on stage, right like they One writer pointed out that,

491
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 1: you know, when they had Carrie Washington host, it's like

492
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 1: the only roles they wrote for her were black women.

493
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 1: There were no kind of quote unquote race neutral uh character.

494
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 1: She was Oprah, she was Michelle Obama. You know, she

495
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 1: couldn't just be like a woman being funny and they

496
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 1: didn't even do a scandal parody. What yeah, that's that

497
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 1: was That's also just surprising. Well, so, um, you know,

498
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 1: to bring this episode full circle, you know we mentioned

499
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 1: Bridesmaids at the top of the podcast being like the

500
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 1: one counterpoint that humanity has against the women aren't funny argument,

501
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 1: And I have to say, like, you know, as funny

502
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 1: as Bridesmaids was, as fantastic as Kristin Wig and her

503
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 1: whole crew is. Um, I'm so over that argument. I'm

504
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 1: so over people holding up Bridesmaids as like, oh no, wait,

505
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 1: but look, women are funny. No, no, screw you. Why

506
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 1: why does Bridesmaids have to be the only sole example

507
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 1: of women being funny? Well, I think it's significant that,

508
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 1: if anything, it put some dollars behind this argument that

509
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 1: not only are women funny, but people will also pay

510
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 1: to go see them, because by its fifth week, it

511
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 1: ended up surpassing the um all of the profits for

512
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 1: Knocked Up. Um. So I think that's good. But, like you,

513
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 1: I am tired of and I'm sure Kristen Wigg probably

514
00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 1: is too tired of Bridesmaids always being held up and

515
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 1: referenced as it's like, okay, but yeah, we get it,

516
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 1: but what's next. Yeah, we gotta keep moving forward, and

517
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 1: I think we are. We So you and I a

518
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 1: you know, the the queens of comedy. But I do

519
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 1: think that things are are moving forward, even with like

520
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 1: the higher of Seshir Zemata, even with us seeing more

521
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 1: female driven sitcoms um and even just the existence of

522
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 1: Tina fe and Amy Poehler being at the places that

523
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 1: they are in there, you know, Hollywood, not just comedy,

524
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 1: but but yeah, it's like the Christopher Dgins essay and

525
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 1: Bridesmaids are just it's like tumbleweed, just like continually rolling through. Yeah,

526
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sick of it, but I mean, you

527
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 1: you make a point that it is the money is key,

528
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 1: because honestly, like I think people in Hollywood would film

529
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 1: anything if they knew that they would make a ton

530
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 1: of money off of it. And so it's it's it

531
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 1: is wonderful to have of women like Kristen Wig and

532
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,479
Speaker 1: Amy Poehler and Tina Fey who are just raking in

533
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 1: the awards, raking in the dough, proving that men and

534
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 1: women alike will sit down in front of the TV

535
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 1: screen of the movie screen and watch them. Yeah. And

536
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 1: I also want to give props to to people like

537
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 1: Mindy Kaling and even Lena Dunham for i don't know,

538
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 1: providing more diversity in what women on screen look like

539
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: as well. I think things are getting better, um, but

540
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 1: we definitely need more of it. Oh and I really

541
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 1: want to shout out shameless plug for something that I

542
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 1: personally love dearly. There is, speaking of female driven sitcoms,

543
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 1: a new sitcom on Comedy Central called broad City, produced

544
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 1: by Amy Poehler and starring to amazing, hilarious, feminist, funny women.

545
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 1: You should totally check it out, and and that hopefully,

546
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 1: can you know, tie you over until the Maker's documentary

547
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 1: on women in comedy comes out later this year. Yeah.

548
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 1: I can't wait to watch it, and I can't wait

549
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 1: to hear from people when they watch it. Yeah, and

550
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 1: if you want to learn more about some other groundbreaking

551
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 1: women that we didn't have a chance to talk about,

552
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 1: if you head over to makers dot com, you can

553
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 1: watch interviews with Margaret Show, Ellen de Generous, Zoey de Chanelle,

554
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 1: and one of also my personal favorites, Dignataro. She's amazing. Yeah. Those,

555
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 1: I think all of the Makers videos are so awesome.

556
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 1: I you know, I'm gushing, but I think it's a

557
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 1: great way to spend your time. Well, it's inspiring to

558
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: hear the stories the of of these women's I don't

559
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 1: know career paths and how they got through similar challenges

560
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 1: that we face, right because I think you know, whether

561
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 1: it's the first female firefighter in New York, or whether

562
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 1: it's a businesswoman, or whether it is a comedian. You know,

563
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 1: you listen to what they say, what they had to overcome,

564
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh my gosh, I can't imagine that.

565
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 1: But in so many respects, so much of that still

566
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 1: rings true. Yeah, yeah, So I would definitely recommend going

567
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 1: over to makers dot com. Um, but we also want

568
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 1: to hear from listeners about your favorite women in comedy

569
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 1: because I know that we by no means offered a

570
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:16,399
Speaker 1: comprehensive list, So right to us. Tweet us a mom

571
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,279
Speaker 1: stuff podcast, hit us up on Facebook, let us know

572
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:21,879
Speaker 1: who some of your favorites are, and maybe we can

573
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 1: put together a gallery or something like that on stuff

574
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 1: mob never told you dot com to share in all

575
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 1: of the lady funniness together. How's how's that grammatically perfect?

576
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 1: Is that good? Awesome? Well, we've got a couple of

577
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:43,879
Speaker 1: letters to share with you right now. In fact, Black

578
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,920
Speaker 1: on email here from Shelby about are stuck on the

579
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 1: Sidelines podcast. She writes, Hi, Kristen and Caroline. I'm a

580
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,360
Speaker 1: new listener to your podcast and have come to believe

581
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 1: we'd be great friends. Excellent, Shelby, She writes, I just

582
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:00,440
Speaker 1: listened to your Stuck on the Sidelines po podcast and

583
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 1: was surprised you didn't mention sports anchor Aaron Andrews. She's

584
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 1: super smart and got her big startup on ESPN College

585
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 1: Game Day. She is, of course beautiful, but also smart

586
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 1: and holds her own among the many men she works

587
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 1: alongside in anchoring football games and baseball games. Her latest

588
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 1: postgame interview with Sherman from the Seahawks is one of

589
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 1: the many examples that Aaron displays of her composure and

590
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:23,959
Speaker 1: ability to deal with the loud and obnoxious moments male

591
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 1: athletes can pose. She also says another clip worth checking

592
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 1: out is when coach Chip Kelly of the Oregon Ducks

593
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:33,320
Speaker 1: came to her defense and told a few college guys

594
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:36,359
Speaker 1: to quote shut up when she was trying to interview him.

595
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 1: She was well respected by coaches and athletes alike, and

596
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:43,840
Speaker 1: I wanted to read Shelby's letter as well because Aaron

597
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,440
Speaker 1: Andrews has an interview that's come out in EL magazine,

598
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 1: which is kind of just a condensed version of the

599
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 1: Stuck on the Sidelines podcast, in which she calls out

600
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 1: the double standards of being a woman in football reporting,

601
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:01,520
Speaker 1: saying you know, yeah, or about how I look, but

602
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:05,920
Speaker 1: no one asks the male commentators how much their suits cost,

603
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 1: and she talks about how big the suits are. He

604
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 1: was like, you know, those suits are huge. They call

605
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:14,360
Speaker 1: so much, they're so big, and the ties so shiny.

606
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 1: So thanks Shelby, and hey, welcome to the podcast. Much shiny,

607
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:21,719
Speaker 1: so big. Wow. Um. I have a letter from Sarah.

608
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 1: This is actually kind of a throwback. She just listened

609
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 1: to our episode on calling women or people crazy. Um, so,

610
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 1: Sarah writes, I've been called crazy before. My friends have

611
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:35,360
Speaker 1: been called crazy. I've even heard strangers being called crazy

612
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 1: in public places by boyfriends, husbands, or other men, and

613
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 1: it drives me, well crazy. I want to thank you

614
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 1: for talking about this issue. I think many women don't

615
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 1: even realize how men gaslight them into thinking their emotions

616
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 1: and feelings are nonsensical. I've had this conversation with friends before.

617
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,720
Speaker 1: Inevitably there comes that epiphany and self reflection to thinking

618
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 1: back on the men who might have done this in

619
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:58,359
Speaker 1: the past. Luckily, once you're aware of this, it's much

620
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,360
Speaker 1: easier to blow it off and realize it just a

621
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 1: distraction and manipulation tool used by men. After listening to

622
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 1: the podcast, I read an article that mentions an interview

623
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 1: with Taylor Swift and Glamour in which she imparts some

624
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 1: dating advice. Lo and behold, she gives us some advice.

625
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:16,280
Speaker 1: I'm not being called crazy. Specifically, she's quoted as saying,

626
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:20,239
Speaker 1: never yell. Silence speaks so much louder than screaming tantrums.

627
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,440
Speaker 1: Never give anyone an excuse to say that you're crazy.

628
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 1: Although I agree that yelling and screaming matches and relationships

629
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 1: aren't anyone's idea of a perfect union, the fact that

630
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 1: she avoids being called crazy at all costs is troubling.

631
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 1: Hopefully she does express her opinions and doesn't back down

632
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 1: from her feelings without yelling, but I have a feeling

633
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:40,440
Speaker 1: that it's probably not the message her young fans will

634
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 1: get from that quote. So thank you for writing in, Sarah,

635
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:46,800
Speaker 1: and also welcome to the podcast. And I'm a little

636
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:50,319
Speaker 1: surprised that Taylor Swift didn't instead say, like, never yell,

637
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 1: just write all of your feelings into a song that

638
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:55,879
Speaker 1: you'll been broadcasts on the radio about out terrible your

639
00:37:55,920 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 1: boyfriend is maybe and now also, uh, Taylor Swift is

640
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:02,239
Speaker 1: gonna be stuck in my head for the rest of

641
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 1: the day. But for you, Yeah, that's okay, that's all right.

642
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 1: Thanks to everybody who's written into us, though Mom Stuff

643
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 1: Discovery dot com is where you can send us all

644
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:13,319
Speaker 1: of your letters. You can also find all of our

645
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 1: social media links, videos, podcasts, and blog posts over at

646
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 1: the greatest website ever launched, Stuff Mom Never Told You

647
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:29,360
Speaker 1: dot com. For more on this and thousands of other topics,

648
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 1: is it how Stuff works dot com. This episode of

649
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 1: Stuff Mom Never Told You was brought to you by

650
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 1: Linda dot Com. Linda dot com offers thousands of engaging,

651
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:48,880
Speaker 1: easy to follow video tutorials taught by industry experts to

652
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 1: help you learn software, creative and business skills. Membership starts

653
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:56,239
Speaker 1: at twenty five a month and provides unlimited seven access.

654
00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:58,840
Speaker 1: Try Linda dot com free for seven days by visiting

655
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 1: Linda dot com slash mom Stuff