Speaker 1: When you were growing up in New York, did you
Speaker 1: ever imagine that this would happen, that you would reach
Speaker 1: that pinnacle? I No, I did not. I was always
Speaker 1: seen as being I was too thin, you know. I
Speaker 1: was supposed to be like Will Chamberlain, you know, three
Speaker 1: pounds of men. You know, I never made it that far,
Speaker 1: you know, Hi, Brian, Hi Katie. That was Kareem Abdul Jabbar,
Speaker 1: one of the NBA's all time grades. By the way.
Speaker 1: He's seven ft two and weighs two pounds soaking wet,
Speaker 1: or so we're told, and he is our guest this week.
Speaker 1: I had the chance to speak with him earlier this
Speaker 1: month in Los Angeles at the Milking Conference. You and
Speaker 1: I got to hang out there, Brian. It was really
Speaker 1: fun and fascinating, and we recorded this interview out of
Speaker 1: the studio and in front of a live audience. Kareem
Speaker 1: was absolutely captivating. People were so excited to see him
Speaker 1: because he does transcend sports. Brian. I think he's become
Speaker 1: a voice for so many important social issues. You know,
Speaker 1: I grew up in l a in the eighties and nineties,
Speaker 1: and Kareem Abdul Jabbar was a really big deal. Even
Speaker 1: for somebody like me who wasn't a rapid sports fans
Speaker 1: watching fan instead of the latest game. Yeah yeah, I
Speaker 1: just teed that right up for you, didn't I subcommittee
Speaker 1: hearings were a little more exciting for me than the Lakers.
Speaker 1: But anyway, we digress. He was a voice on a
Speaker 1: lot of social justice issues, on a lot of the
Speaker 1: way that African Americans were being mistreated, particularly during that period,
Speaker 1: and even as his basketball career ended, his activism really continued.
Speaker 1: He was a prolific campaigner for Hillary Clinton last year.
Speaker 1: He's spoken out on criminal justice reform and on Muslim
Speaker 1: issues too, because famously he converted to Islam as a
Speaker 1: young man, and so we we cover all of that.
Speaker 1: Are you covered all of that in your conversation with Kareem?
Speaker 1: You know, I first got to know him Brian when
Speaker 1: he got involved with Stand Up to Cancer, because he
Speaker 1: was diagnosed with lymphoma and was very generous with his
Speaker 1: time and support of that organization that I started along
Speaker 1: with some other crazy women. And uh, he was always
Speaker 1: struck me as being an exceedingly philanthropic and thoughtful individual.
Speaker 1: We had a wide ranging conversation about his faith, of course,
Speaker 1: about his relationship with John Wooden, about race relations today,
Speaker 1: about Donald Trump, and of course about basketball duh. And
Speaker 1: I wanted to know if he ever gets tired of
Speaker 1: hearing that people consider him the greatest basketball player of
Speaker 1: all time, because it has to do with the game
Speaker 1: I love so much. I can't hear that too much.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm very proud that I somehow worm my
Speaker 1: way into that conversation whether I am or am not
Speaker 1: the greatest ever, at least people wonder about that, and
Speaker 1: that that's I'm pretty proud of that. You have so
Speaker 1: many highlights as you look back on your career. But
Speaker 1: when we were in the green room waiting to go on,
Speaker 1: I asked you if you had a snapshot of one
Speaker 1: moment in your basketball career, what would that be? Oh? Well,
Speaker 1: for me, that's very easy, especially for the fans here
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles. Beating the Boston Celtics, you said, people
Speaker 1: always ask you about that. Right now they do. I
Speaker 1: mean especially here because it's so much residents. Yet that's
Speaker 1: at that point the Lakers were oh and eight against
Speaker 1: the Celtics in World Championship competition. Going back maybe to
Speaker 1: when the Lakers were in Minneapolis, it just went all
Speaker 1: the way back and there's just a long, uh period
Speaker 1: of frustration and the season. The very season before that,
Speaker 1: we gave a game away in Boston Garden. We were
Speaker 1: very very angry about that. So being able to come
Speaker 1: back the next year and beat them and win the
Speaker 1: final game in Game six in Boston Garden was incredible.
Speaker 1: It was very special woman for the team, for the franchise,
Speaker 1: for all the folks here in Los Angeles, and for
Speaker 1: me personally. You know, I was m v P. I
Speaker 1: was able to leave my team, uh at its most
Speaker 1: important time. So, yeah, you're not a real smiley person,
Speaker 1: but you're smiling when you're telling that story. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's that's a great one. You know, you always
Speaker 1: feel good when you know you get the guy. You're
Speaker 1: the guy that rises in with the cavalry and saves
Speaker 1: everybody and the pretty girls kiss you and all of
Speaker 1: that stuff. You have written a new book, uh it
Speaker 1: is the twelve book, and it's called Coach Wooden and
Speaker 1: Me are fifty Year Friendship on and off the Court.
Speaker 1: And you start this book by talking about when you
Speaker 1: got the Presidential Medal of Freedom from President Obama. And
Speaker 1: I know that he brought up your n c A,
Speaker 1: the banning of dunking during your time in college, and
Speaker 1: he said, when a sport changes its rules to make
Speaker 1: it harder just for you, you are really good. Well,
Speaker 1: it must have been very very cool to get that
Speaker 1: Presidential Medal of Freedom. It was especially an incredible group
Speaker 1: of people. Right. That's the thing that got to me.
Speaker 1: So many people there that I admired and who had
Speaker 1: affected my life in many different ways. Uh, Robert de
Speaker 1: Niro or Ellen or Cecily Tyson Coach wouldn't have gotten
Speaker 1: that same Presidential Medal of Freedom thirteen years earlier. Right,
Speaker 1: And Um, I was going to read a passage that
Speaker 1: that you wrote early on. You're so prolific. Where do
Speaker 1: you find all this time to write? I get help,
Speaker 1: I do, get help, you do. But you're a good
Speaker 1: writer though. Yeah, And I got a great guy that
Speaker 1: helps you with my my research, and uh, he's great. Well,
Speaker 1: let me read this passage. Um. Coach was an old
Speaker 1: white Midwesterner with old fashioned ideals. I was a quiet,
Speaker 1: but cocky black kid from New York City who towered
Speaker 1: eighteen inches over him. He was a devout Christian. I
Speaker 1: became a devout Muslim. He loved big band music of
Speaker 1: the swing era. I love modern jazz. On paper, it's
Speaker 1: understandable that we would have a good working relationship as
Speaker 1: coach and player. But nothing on that same paper would
Speaker 1: even hint that we would have a close friendship that
Speaker 1: would endure a lifetime. So talk to me about your
Speaker 1: friendship with Coach woulden how it developed, what he taught you,
Speaker 1: and and tell us a little bit about why he
Speaker 1: was so universally admired. He was universally admired because he
Speaker 1: had so much patience with us. He wanted us to
Speaker 1: be the best we could be. You want us to
Speaker 1: be the best uh husbands and fathers we could be.
Speaker 1: He wanted us to be the best citizens we could be.
Speaker 1: And he just used basketball as an analogy to teach
Speaker 1: us about life and about discipline and a whole lot
Speaker 1: of things that we thought we knew everything about when
Speaker 1: we got here. I just I laugh, you know, because
Speaker 1: I just thought, Hey, I'm ready, I should be going
Speaker 1: into the NBA, but I have to go to college.
Speaker 1: But I wanted to go to college. You know, I'm
Speaker 1: I'm the first person in my family graduated from college.
Speaker 1: Coach wouldn't really explain it to us how important it was,
Speaker 1: how important learning things were. Uh, the values that endure
Speaker 1: in families and successful teams. Any success that I have,
Speaker 1: uh is uh gotta be He's got to take some
Speaker 1: of the credit for it. Your friendship lasted his entire
Speaker 1: life really after you got to know him. He used
Speaker 1: to go see him and sometimes just kind of sit
Speaker 1: quiet and Uh. We were both baseball fans, so we
Speaker 1: talked about a number of things. UM. Coach wouldn't know
Speaker 1: a whole lot about the things that just astounded me.
Speaker 1: Some of it I didn't find out until very late
Speaker 1: in the time that I knew him, Like some of
Speaker 1: the stuff that he did for the civil rights movement.
Speaker 1: It is unbelievable for me. Coach woulden Uh was involved
Speaker 1: in getting the n a I a National Association of
Speaker 1: Intercollegiate Athletic Association that tournament integrated. They invited his team
Speaker 1: in nineteen seven to come. He had a very good
Speaker 1: team team that year. Um, they wanted to be come.
Speaker 1: He said, yeah, sure, and then they told him all
Speaker 1: about it and said, oh, you have a black guy
Speaker 1: on your team. You can't bring him here. It's it's
Speaker 1: for white's only. Coach Wins said, you know, we we
Speaker 1: played the whole season together. We're not going to stop
Speaker 1: that at this point, thank you very much. We're not coming.
Speaker 1: And he hung the phone up on the guy and
Speaker 1: the team didn't go. Next season, his team did better,
Speaker 1: and the n ai tournament people called him again with
Speaker 1: the same conversation, and they got the same reply, and
Speaker 1: he got ready to hanging the phone up, and but
Speaker 1: they relented and h coaches player ended up being the
Speaker 1: very first Black American to to play in that tournament.
Speaker 1: Now I played for coach, wouldn't right at the end
Speaker 1: of the Civil rights movement. He never spoke to me
Speaker 1: about it. I didn't find out about it until, uh,
Speaker 1: shortly before he died that he had done that and
Speaker 1: it had been an advocate for black athletes. And uh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I know that many of your books have been about
Speaker 1: African American history, speaking of that, about Black Americans who
Speaker 1: have had a profound and sometimes overlooked impact on this country.
Speaker 1: In the wake of the Black Lives Matter movement, Um,
Speaker 1: how do you feel about the state of race relations today? Um,
Speaker 1: it's disappointing to me to see some thing's moving backwards.
Speaker 1: I don't think things can go, but so far backwards
Speaker 1: after President Obama, who did I thought such a great job. Um,
Speaker 1: but I'm disappointed to see some of the old things
Speaker 1: start to try to rear their heads. You know that
Speaker 1: so many of our children, I know my children don't
Speaker 1: feel racial issues like my generation had to deal with them,
Speaker 1: or especially the generation before me. Um I was born.
Speaker 1: And it's it keeps getting better. I think each generation
Speaker 1: that our children are are able to say, hey, we're
Speaker 1: all Americans. We be come from a very many different
Speaker 1: cultures around the world. Los Angeles County has over they
Speaker 1: speak over a hundred languages in our schools. I found
Speaker 1: this out. I know people in the l a unified
Speaker 1: school district and tell me, so, man, these things over
Speaker 1: a hundred languages. Um. The malting part of the world
Speaker 1: is incredibly large, and we can all come here and
Speaker 1: be Americans. It's it's an incredible system that we have
Speaker 1: and yet and moving backwards, so that that that's bothered me,
Speaker 1: and uh, I hope that uh it's gone far enough
Speaker 1: and uh we all stop and think a minute and
Speaker 1: keep it moving forward. You know. It's it seems far,
Speaker 1: far too often when we hear about a young black
Speaker 1: man being killed by police under sometimes questionable circumstances. I
Speaker 1: was just reading yesterday about that fifteen year old boy
Speaker 1: in Dallas who uh was shot by a police officer
Speaker 1: when the car he was in was backing up, and
Speaker 1: initially the police that it was reversing in an aggressive
Speaker 1: manner um. That statement, by the way, was later retracted.
Speaker 1: But how do we stop these heartbreaking incidents from happening?
Speaker 1: Have you? You know, there's been so much attention on
Speaker 1: these shooting scream as you well know, do you do
Speaker 1: you see any solution or anything that's happening in departments, say,
Speaker 1: around the country that gives you hope or you know,
Speaker 1: every time you hear about a story like this, do
Speaker 1: you think, why, why isn't more being done to address
Speaker 1: this problem? Well, I'm encouraged by a few things that
Speaker 1: that I see in that attempt to try to deal
Speaker 1: with these issues, with the cameras, the uh, the body cameras,
Speaker 1: and just the fact that that we can talk about
Speaker 1: it now and I know that it's a problem. For
Speaker 1: the longest time, people used to deny that it was
Speaker 1: a problem, and then they have Then they have this
Speaker 1: thing called the cell phone with cameras on it. Right,
Speaker 1: everything changed that That changed a lot of things because
Speaker 1: people began to understand that it really was a problem.
Speaker 1: Lack Americans weren't making these things up just to cover
Speaker 1: their own innate criminality. People believe that mynth. You know
Speaker 1: that that's a myth. People would actually believe that. But
Speaker 1: now we can see that it's it's just bias. Um,
Speaker 1: all criminals deserve to be apprehended and prosecuted, no matter
Speaker 1: what color they are, no matter you know what the crime.
Speaker 1: That said, Uh, we can't be biased in doing that.
Speaker 1: You know, either it is probable cause that there isn't
Speaker 1: you know, lots of workern as you know, is being
Speaker 1: done with implicit bias, you know, unconscious bias at police
Speaker 1: departments all over the country. So do you do you
Speaker 1: feel hopeful that retraining and I mean some of this
Speaker 1: is so deeply ingrained, right, very it's it's ingrained in
Speaker 1: the culture of our country. Some of it goes back to, uh,
Speaker 1: the fugitive slay that which was I believe eighteen fifty
Speaker 1: where one I think I'm kidding, I don't know, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think you're right fifty one. But um, whatever it
Speaker 1: was American citizens were told that they should apprehend and
Speaker 1: hold escape property, which actually were people fleeing, uh, being
Speaker 1: kidnapped and worked to death in the South, so that
Speaker 1: they could make a profit on on cotton. That that's
Speaker 1: was the premise. You know, Uh, this is our property,
Speaker 1: and you guys got to help control these people because
Speaker 1: we can't control them in there again, innate and lee
Speaker 1: wild people because they come from Africa. And it was
Speaker 1: a real great the propaganda job that enabled that that
Speaker 1: system to last until people realized that these people were
Speaker 1: human beings. And thank having for President Lincoln. Uh, despite
Speaker 1: despite what Mr Trump has to say, which brings me
Speaker 1: to my next topic, how do you think he's doing
Speaker 1: as president? Jeez Um, it's real obvious disparity between what
Speaker 1: we're going through now and I thought the competence and
Speaker 1: honestly of President Obama, it's a dramatic difference. We're going
Speaker 1: to take a quick break. We'll be back with more
Speaker 1: from Kareem Abdul Jabbar right after this, and now back
Speaker 1: to my conversation with Kareem Abdul Jabbar or kJ as
Speaker 1: I call him. You. You wrote a piece for the
Speaker 1: Washington Post about what it means to be black during
Speaker 1: a Trump administration. And here's an excerpt injustices were easier
Speaker 1: to endure when there seemed to be a sustained path
Speaker 1: to improvement that the country supported. But now we have
Speaker 1: the what have you got to lose? Non policy? The
Speaker 1: bulldozes the path to rubble. Specifically, how do you believe
Speaker 1: that path is being bulldozed kareem um? Just the way
Speaker 1: that they're trying to uh return tax dollars to the
Speaker 1: wealthiest one percent on the backs of people who need money,
Speaker 1: uh for better educational opportunities and roads and airports and
Speaker 1: train infrastructure, bridges, tunnels. They need to be upheld taking
Speaker 1: away from the things that benefit the middle class and
Speaker 1: give lower class people jobs. It's not it's not a
Speaker 1: good formula. And I don't you know, having someone who's
Speaker 1: a multi millionaire in office who doesn't care or even
Speaker 1: understand the the workings of how people make it from
Speaker 1: the lower classes into the middle class or possibly into
Speaker 1: the upper class. He doesn't understand how that happens because
Speaker 1: he was smart enough to you know, inherit two hundred
Speaker 1: million when he when he was born. You know, I
Speaker 1: didn't have those kind of smarts, so I had to
Speaker 1: do it the hard way, and um, most of us
Speaker 1: have to do it that way. Let's let's talk about
Speaker 1: when you converted to Islam nearly fifty years ago. What
Speaker 1: motivated you to do that? Cream. I was raised Catholic,
Speaker 1: and the Catholic Church had a big hand in the
Speaker 1: slave trade. I resented that, but I had a strong
Speaker 1: belief in monotheism. So as a person of African descent,
Speaker 1: I wanted to practice Monotheism in a way that was
Speaker 1: more compatible with where I was from, and that was Islam.
Speaker 1: I learned about his Lama. I read the autobiography of
Speaker 1: Malcolm X. That really prompted me to want to learn
Speaker 1: about Islam, and I found it to be something that
Speaker 1: made sense to me, and I converted when I was
Speaker 1: about the nineteen or twenty years old. We've seen hostility
Speaker 1: towards Muslims, not just in this country but around the world.
Speaker 1: What can be done about that? And what do you
Speaker 1: think is the most misunderstood part of Islam? I think
Speaker 1: the most misunderstood part about Islam is that they feel that, uh,
Speaker 1: we're taught to be violent. The Muslim community during the
Speaker 1: time of the Prophet were was attacked, and they learned
Speaker 1: how to be vigilant, and that's in the Koran. To
Speaker 1: be vigilant, but to make peace with people and to
Speaker 1: keep up your end of all peace treaties. That that's
Speaker 1: what the Koran tells us. That's what most Muslims used
Speaker 1: to try to do. And now there's some crazy people.
Speaker 1: Let's say that they are Muslims and they are barbaric,
Speaker 1: murderer some of the things that they've tried to put
Speaker 1: out there, these issist people, it's it's barbarity. They didn't
Speaker 1: learn that from the teachings of the prophet Muhammad. It's
Speaker 1: just it's like saying that the Christian knights of the
Speaker 1: ku Klux Klan represent the teachings of Jesus, So that
Speaker 1: that's impossible. This radical Jahodism or whether they want to
Speaker 1: call it, um, that's not that's not compatible with the
Speaker 1: teachings of Islam. And I hope people can get that.
Speaker 1: Thank you know, you've you've spoken out about this, You've
Speaker 1: written about it extensively. Um. One of the complaints that
Speaker 1: you know, I've heard in various circles is that there
Speaker 1: aren't enough moderate Muslims speaking out, not just in this country,
Speaker 1: but around the world against this this fundamentalists uh interpretation
Speaker 1: if you will, of the Kuran. Do you wish that
Speaker 1: more people would speak out against that as a way
Speaker 1: of really explaining what Islam truly is well, I don't
Speaker 1: think that voices of moderation are heard in the places
Speaker 1: where these things are happening. The places where these things
Speaker 1: are happening are are ruled by uh, really bad governance,
Speaker 1: strong men, kings. Uh, they're very often corrupt. If they
Speaker 1: have any mineral wealth, there's one group that controls it
Speaker 1: and controls all the wealth in the country and therefore
Speaker 1: sets the agenda for everything. And the common person is
Speaker 1: forgotten in those places. And you have really very wealthy
Speaker 1: elites that they don't It's like a whole family of Trump's,
Speaker 1: you know, like thousands of them. It's bad stuff. You know,
Speaker 1: they have a very distorted view of what life is about.
Speaker 1: What was your reaction when President Trump temporarily banded travel
Speaker 1: from at first seven and later six predominantly Muslim countries.
Speaker 1: I was very disappointed. I think he's trying to escapegoat
Speaker 1: He's trying to escapegoat one group, and um, I think
Speaker 1: it's caused some very bad things that start happening. Hate
Speaker 1: crimes have risen. We saw what happened in the Jewish
Speaker 1: cemetery in St. Louis, the mosque in Texas. Any mom
Speaker 1: I think in New Jersey was was murdered. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: it's it's getting really more serious. Acts of violence directed
Speaker 1: against Muslims or against people who people think are Muslims.
Speaker 1: Some seekh people, most the people from India who wear turbans.
Speaker 1: People some people think they're Muslims, they're not. They're They're
Speaker 1: getting attacked. It's getting crazy and it doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1: And the leader of our country should try to really
Speaker 1: calm this whole atmosphere down and you know, be rational.
Speaker 1: There are people we need to fear, but just anybody
Speaker 1: who looks different fearing them is not That's that's not
Speaker 1: going to get it. Let me ask you about your
Speaker 1: chronic mylod My Lloyd leukemia. You were diagnosed in two
Speaker 1: thousand nine. Today you're still in remission, feeling good, very good.
Speaker 1: Thank you, and you were awarded a double Helix Medal
Speaker 1: in two thousand eleven for your work and raising awareness
Speaker 1: for cancer research. You've been very helpful to stand up
Speaker 1: to cancers and we appreciate that so much. Greem Um,
Speaker 1: so so how thicky, How how did that diagnosis change
Speaker 1: you for your priorities, your perspective. I think it really
Speaker 1: helped me understand that how precious my time is. Well,
Speaker 1: Raymond and I talked about this. He said, the Angel
Speaker 1: of Death was on vacation in China, going to all
Speaker 1: the beaches, and now are driving up and down with
Speaker 1: your boulevard in a cab looking for you. Um, things
Speaker 1: start to you know, your perspective changes, you know, all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, Hey, you might run up on the
Speaker 1: end of your days and you want to make sure
Speaker 1: that you you do the right things for all the
Speaker 1: people and all the causes that that are important to you.
Speaker 1: You know. So it's really helped me get a lot
Speaker 1: more done. You are so outspoken about a variety of issues.
Speaker 1: Do you ever regret sort of putting yourself out there
Speaker 1: in such a way. I know you have two million
Speaker 1: Twitter followers. I don't even want to read those comments. Cream.
Speaker 1: That scares me to death, even the idea of that. Um,
Speaker 1: but I'm sure you get a fair amount of backlash. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I know you do. Yeah, yeah, thanks for reminding me.
Speaker 1: But he comes in the form of like tweets. Now
Speaker 1: you don't really get any thing right, No, but that
Speaker 1: that that's uh. Actually it's easier for them with with tweet,
Speaker 1: they don't have to thinking. It's very hard for these people,
Speaker 1: and you limit the number of characters that see. It's
Speaker 1: easier on them. You know, do you ever do you
Speaker 1: ever engage with them? No? No, never, No. I really
Speaker 1: took a lot of heart and inspiration from from Mr Lewis,
Speaker 1: Mr John Lewis. I remember watching on the news the
Speaker 1: time when he let those people across they had been
Speaker 1: Pettis Bridge, and I wept. I was like fourteen or
Speaker 1: fifteen years old. I was crying. And the man is
Speaker 1: he's not bitter, he's not angry. I've heard him speaking.
Speaker 1: He said, if you don't put your life on the line,
Speaker 1: you're not committed to non violence and uh progress, And
Speaker 1: it just it It makes me smile and makes me
Speaker 1: realize that they you only have so much time, and
Speaker 1: you can't worry about how you leave here. You got
Speaker 1: to leave here doing the right thing. That's such a
Speaker 1: that's such a great way to end our conversation. But
Speaker 1: I have a few more questions. Real quickly. Um. I
Speaker 1: wanted to ask you. First of all, you turned seventy.
Speaker 1: You're so skinny. Yeah, so so what up with that?
Speaker 1: You just do have to watch what you eat? Apparently not.
Speaker 1: I've always been skinny, I know that. But but I
Speaker 1: mean how you you how for someone who's spent so
Speaker 1: much of his life in top physical uh shape? How
Speaker 1: how has it felt to age? If you're Kareem Abdul Jabbar,
Speaker 1: I feel that I've done pretty good at it. Um.
Speaker 1: You're building a swimming pool, Yeah, so I can swim
Speaker 1: every day? Yeah? Is that something you do regularly? Swim? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a family thing. Kareem moved to Orange County and
Speaker 1: he's building flaming fool. I asked him if he saw
Speaker 1: the Real Housewives there. He said, no, no, no, I
Speaker 1: don't want to say but not even at the grocery store. No, no, no.
Speaker 1: My grandmother was from a part of my family's fur
Speaker 1: in the West Indies. I grow on from Trinidad, part
Speaker 1: of training dad called Grand River. There's there's no plumbing
Speaker 1: out there. She swam in the river to bathe or
Speaker 1: in the ocean. So flaming has always been a big deal.
Speaker 1: What else do you do to stay in shape, some yoga,
Speaker 1: jump rope and stuff. I'm trying to keep the pounds
Speaker 1: off and stay healthy and cherish these days. I'm on
Speaker 1: borrow time now, so I'm hoping I'm gonna be huge
Speaker 1: debt here. Um, Jim Gray are my friend Jim Gray
Speaker 1: is here somewhere. And I said, Jim, think of a
Speaker 1: really good sports question for Karee because I'm not super sporty,
Speaker 1: but so this was his question. You came along with
Speaker 1: Bill Russell, Bill Walton, we're big men. Really mattered, Um,
Speaker 1: but what do you think about the current stars like
Speaker 1: Steph Curry and Lebron It's become a smaller man's game
Speaker 1: and the time when giants roam the earth is kind
Speaker 1: of over now. I don't really understand that question, but
Speaker 1: it sounded good and and I thought it. I don't know,
Speaker 1: I kind of he was very poetic and he just
Speaker 1: came up with it like that. So what do you
Speaker 1: think of that? He's talking about what they call small
Speaker 1: ball and it means that the three point shot has
Speaker 1: changed the game, No, no question that that wonderful year
Speaker 1: when we beat the Celtics for the first time from
Speaker 1: the very first Uh, for the first game of the
Speaker 1: season to the last game of the playoffs, we made
Speaker 1: nine odd three point shots in the In the twenty
Speaker 1: fifteen season when Golden State won, between the first game
Speaker 1: of season and the last game of the playoffs, they
Speaker 1: made one thousand, seventy seven three point shots. Game has
Speaker 1: changed different games, so you know that. You know, putting
Speaker 1: a premium on a shot like that means that if
Speaker 1: you have long distance sharpshooters, they'll be able to score
Speaker 1: more efficiently because that extra point really changes it. If
Speaker 1: you can defend those guys and uh dominate under the
Speaker 1: glass and not let them get any second shots, you
Speaker 1: can still dominate the game. So there will always be
Speaker 1: space on the court for very tall guys that can
Speaker 1: do that. But there might be fewer of them, but
Speaker 1: they'll never be like totally gone. Um, they won't be
Speaker 1: able to get rid of us, Son't that That's That's
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. You know why I love talking to Kareem.
Speaker 1: This was really a privilege for me. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
Speaker 1: okay where ribs. Thank you so much to the Milk
Speaker 1: and Institute for hosting this episode's conversation at their global
Speaker 1: conference in Los Angeles. It was a fascinating experience. I
Speaker 1: really appreciated the opportunity to be there. Also, to their engineers,
Speaker 1: by the way, who recorded this, a big thank you
Speaker 1: to Gianna Palmer for producing the show, to my bff
Speaker 1: Jared O'Connell for mixing it, and to Noor Richie for
Speaker 1: additional production assistance. Noura, by the way, just got her
Speaker 1: hair cut. It looks quite fetching. And now do we
Speaker 1: have to say everybody else's fetching social media? Maybe Alison
Speaker 1: Bresnik also fetching. And to Emily Beena always fetching for
Speaker 1: her part in producing this show. Mark Phillips, thank you
Speaker 1: as always for our addictive theme music, at least addictive
Speaker 1: to the We never met Mark Phillips, so I can't
Speaker 1: say whether he's fetching or not, but sometimes we'll have
Speaker 1: an opportunity to to see him in person. Me while
Speaker 1: Brian Goldsmith and I are executive producers of this and
Speaker 1: Don't forget, you can email us at comments at correct
Speaker 1: podcast dot com. You can find me on social media
Speaker 1: all too often, according to my husband. I'm Katie Couric
Speaker 1: on Twitter and Instagram, Katie dot corric on Snapchat, brian
Speaker 1: Is Goldsmith b on Twitter and if you like our show,
Speaker 1: please rate and review it. It helps more people to
Speaker 1: find it on Apple Podcasts, and please subscribe as well.
Speaker 1: We will talk to you next time.