1 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 1: When you were growing up in New York, did you 2 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:09,920 Speaker 1: ever imagine that this would happen, that you would reach 3 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: that pinnacle? I No, I did not. I was always 4 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: seen as being I was too thin, you know. I 5 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: was supposed to be like Will Chamberlain, you know, three 6 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: pounds of men. You know, I never made it that far, 7 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:32,600 Speaker 1: you know, Hi, Brian, Hi Katie. That was Kareem Abdul Jabbar, 8 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:35,880 Speaker 1: one of the NBA's all time grades. By the way. 9 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:39,200 Speaker 1: He's seven ft two and weighs two pounds soaking wet, 10 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 1: or so we're told, and he is our guest this week. 11 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 1: I had the chance to speak with him earlier this 12 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: month in Los Angeles at the Milking Conference. You and 13 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:50,160 Speaker 1: I got to hang out there, Brian. It was really 14 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 1: fun and fascinating, and we recorded this interview out of 15 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 1: the studio and in front of a live audience. Kareem 16 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:02,319 Speaker 1: was absolutely captivating. People were so excited to see him 17 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 1: because he does transcend sports. Brian. I think he's become 18 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 1: a voice for so many important social issues. You know, 19 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:13,119 Speaker 1: I grew up in l a in the eighties and nineties, 20 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:16,559 Speaker 1: and Kareem Abdul Jabbar was a really big deal. Even 21 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:19,399 Speaker 1: for somebody like me who wasn't a rapid sports fans 22 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 1: watching fan instead of the latest game. Yeah yeah, I 23 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:26,040 Speaker 1: just teed that right up for you, didn't I subcommittee 24 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:28,319 Speaker 1: hearings were a little more exciting for me than the Lakers. 25 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:31,399 Speaker 1: But anyway, we digress. He was a voice on a 26 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:34,960 Speaker 1: lot of social justice issues, on a lot of the 27 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: way that African Americans were being mistreated, particularly during that period, 28 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 1: and even as his basketball career ended, his activism really continued. 29 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 1: He was a prolific campaigner for Hillary Clinton last year. 30 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 1: He's spoken out on criminal justice reform and on Muslim 31 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 1: issues too, because famously he converted to Islam as a 32 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 1: young man, and so we we cover all of that. 33 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 1: Are you covered all of that in your conversation with Kareem? 34 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 1: You know, I first got to know him Brian when 35 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: he got involved with Stand Up to Cancer, because he 36 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 1: was diagnosed with lymphoma and was very generous with his 37 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:16,239 Speaker 1: time and support of that organization that I started along 38 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:21,240 Speaker 1: with some other crazy women. And uh, he was always 39 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 1: struck me as being an exceedingly philanthropic and thoughtful individual. 40 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 1: We had a wide ranging conversation about his faith, of course, 41 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: about his relationship with John Wooden, about race relations today, 42 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: about Donald Trump, and of course about basketball duh. And 43 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: I wanted to know if he ever gets tired of 44 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 1: hearing that people consider him the greatest basketball player of 45 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 1: all time, because it has to do with the game 46 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 1: I love so much. I can't hear that too much. 47 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 1: You know, I'm very proud that I somehow worm my 48 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 1: way into that conversation whether I am or am not 49 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 1: the greatest ever, at least people wonder about that, and 50 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 1: that that's I'm pretty proud of that. You have so 51 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 1: many highlights as you look back on your career. But 52 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 1: when we were in the green room waiting to go on, 53 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 1: I asked you if you had a snapshot of one 54 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 1: moment in your basketball career, what would that be? Oh? Well, 55 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 1: for me, that's very easy, especially for the fans here 56 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 1: in Los Angeles. Beating the Boston Celtics, you said, people 57 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: always ask you about that. Right now they do. I 58 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 1: mean especially here because it's so much residents. Yet that's 59 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: at that point the Lakers were oh and eight against 60 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 1: the Celtics in World Championship competition. Going back maybe to 61 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 1: when the Lakers were in Minneapolis, it just went all 62 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 1: the way back and there's just a long, uh period 63 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 1: of frustration and the season. The very season before that, 64 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 1: we gave a game away in Boston Garden. We were 65 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 1: very very angry about that. So being able to come 66 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 1: back the next year and beat them and win the 67 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 1: final game in Game six in Boston Garden was incredible. 68 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 1: It was very special woman for the team, for the franchise, 69 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 1: for all the folks here in Los Angeles, and for 70 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 1: me personally. You know, I was m v P. I 71 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:32,159 Speaker 1: was able to leave my team, uh at its most 72 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 1: important time. So, yeah, you're not a real smiley person, 73 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 1: but you're smiling when you're telling that story. Well, yeah, 74 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:41,159 Speaker 1: that's that's that's a great one. You know, you always 75 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 1: feel good when you know you get the guy. You're 76 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 1: the guy that rises in with the cavalry and saves 77 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 1: everybody and the pretty girls kiss you and all of 78 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:53,599 Speaker 1: that stuff. You have written a new book, uh it 79 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 1: is the twelve book, and it's called Coach Wooden and 80 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:01,039 Speaker 1: Me are fifty Year Friendship on and off the Court. 81 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:03,480 Speaker 1: And you start this book by talking about when you 82 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: got the Presidential Medal of Freedom from President Obama. And 83 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 1: I know that he brought up your n c A, 84 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 1: the banning of dunking during your time in college, and 85 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:16,600 Speaker 1: he said, when a sport changes its rules to make 86 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: it harder just for you, you are really good. Well, 87 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 1: it must have been very very cool to get that 88 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:28,119 Speaker 1: Presidential Medal of Freedom. It was especially an incredible group 89 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:30,359 Speaker 1: of people. Right. That's the thing that got to me. 90 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 1: So many people there that I admired and who had 91 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: affected my life in many different ways. Uh, Robert de 92 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 1: Niro or Ellen or Cecily Tyson Coach wouldn't have gotten 93 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:50,720 Speaker 1: that same Presidential Medal of Freedom thirteen years earlier. Right, 94 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:54,040 Speaker 1: And Um, I was going to read a passage that 95 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 1: that you wrote early on. You're so prolific. Where do 96 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:59,160 Speaker 1: you find all this time to write? I get help, 97 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 1: I do, get help, you do. But you're a good 98 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:04,719 Speaker 1: writer though. Yeah, And I got a great guy that 99 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 1: helps you with my my research, and uh, he's great. Well, 100 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 1: let me read this passage. Um. Coach was an old 101 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:16,280 Speaker 1: white Midwesterner with old fashioned ideals. I was a quiet, 102 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 1: but cocky black kid from New York City who towered 103 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:22,839 Speaker 1: eighteen inches over him. He was a devout Christian. I 104 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 1: became a devout Muslim. He loved big band music of 105 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:29,040 Speaker 1: the swing era. I love modern jazz. On paper, it's 106 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:32,600 Speaker 1: understandable that we would have a good working relationship as 107 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: coach and player. But nothing on that same paper would 108 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 1: even hint that we would have a close friendship that 109 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 1: would endure a lifetime. So talk to me about your 110 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:45,160 Speaker 1: friendship with Coach woulden how it developed, what he taught you, 111 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 1: and and tell us a little bit about why he 112 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: was so universally admired. He was universally admired because he 113 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 1: had so much patience with us. He wanted us to 114 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 1: be the best we could be. You want us to 115 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:03,479 Speaker 1: be the best uh husbands and fathers we could be. 116 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:05,359 Speaker 1: He wanted us to be the best citizens we could be. 117 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 1: And he just used basketball as an analogy to teach 118 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 1: us about life and about discipline and a whole lot 119 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 1: of things that we thought we knew everything about when 120 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 1: we got here. I just I laugh, you know, because 121 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 1: I just thought, Hey, I'm ready, I should be going 122 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: into the NBA, but I have to go to college. 123 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 1: But I wanted to go to college. You know, I'm 124 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 1: I'm the first person in my family graduated from college. 125 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 1: Coach wouldn't really explain it to us how important it was, 126 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 1: how important learning things were. Uh, the values that endure 127 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 1: in families and successful teams. Any success that I have, 128 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 1: uh is uh gotta be He's got to take some 129 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 1: of the credit for it. Your friendship lasted his entire 130 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 1: life really after you got to know him. He used 131 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 1: to go see him and sometimes just kind of sit 132 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 1: quiet and Uh. We were both baseball fans, so we 133 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 1: talked about a number of things. UM. Coach wouldn't know 134 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: a whole lot about the things that just astounded me. 135 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 1: Some of it I didn't find out until very late 136 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 1: in the time that I knew him, Like some of 137 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 1: the stuff that he did for the civil rights movement. 138 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 1: It is unbelievable for me. Coach woulden Uh was involved 139 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: in getting the n a I a National Association of 140 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 1: Intercollegiate Athletic Association that tournament integrated. They invited his team 141 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 1: in nineteen seven to come. He had a very good 142 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 1: team team that year. Um, they wanted to be come. 143 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 1: He said, yeah, sure, and then they told him all 144 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 1: about it and said, oh, you have a black guy 145 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 1: on your team. You can't bring him here. It's it's 146 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:57,320 Speaker 1: for white's only. Coach Wins said, you know, we we 147 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 1: played the whole season together. We're not going to stop 148 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: that at this point, thank you very much. We're not coming. 149 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:06,440 Speaker 1: And he hung the phone up on the guy and 150 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:10,079 Speaker 1: the team didn't go. Next season, his team did better, 151 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 1: and the n ai tournament people called him again with 152 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:18,560 Speaker 1: the same conversation, and they got the same reply, and 153 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 1: he got ready to hanging the phone up, and but 154 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 1: they relented and h coaches player ended up being the 155 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: very first Black American to to play in that tournament. 156 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 1: Now I played for coach, wouldn't right at the end 157 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 1: of the Civil rights movement. He never spoke to me 158 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: about it. I didn't find out about it until, uh, 159 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 1: shortly before he died that he had done that and 160 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 1: it had been an advocate for black athletes. And uh, yeah, 161 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 1: I know that many of your books have been about 162 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:51,679 Speaker 1: African American history, speaking of that, about Black Americans who 163 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:55,559 Speaker 1: have had a profound and sometimes overlooked impact on this country. 164 00:09:55,559 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 1: In the wake of the Black Lives Matter movement, Um, 165 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 1: how do you feel about the state of race relations today? Um, 166 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:09,440 Speaker 1: it's disappointing to me to see some thing's moving backwards. 167 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 1: I don't think things can go, but so far backwards 168 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 1: after President Obama, who did I thought such a great job. Um, 169 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 1: but I'm disappointed to see some of the old things 170 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: start to try to rear their heads. You know that 171 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 1: so many of our children, I know my children don't 172 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 1: feel racial issues like my generation had to deal with them, 173 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: or especially the generation before me. Um I was born. 174 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 1: And it's it keeps getting better. I think each generation 175 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: that our children are are able to say, hey, we're 176 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 1: all Americans. We be come from a very many different 177 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 1: cultures around the world. Los Angeles County has over they 178 00:10:55,800 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 1: speak over a hundred languages in our schools. I found 179 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 1: this out. I know people in the l a unified 180 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: school district and tell me, so, man, these things over 181 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 1: a hundred languages. Um. The malting part of the world 182 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:11,680 Speaker 1: is incredibly large, and we can all come here and 183 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:15,680 Speaker 1: be Americans. It's it's an incredible system that we have 184 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 1: and yet and moving backwards, so that that that's bothered me, 185 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 1: and uh, I hope that uh it's gone far enough 186 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: and uh we all stop and think a minute and 187 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:30,840 Speaker 1: keep it moving forward. You know. It's it seems far, 188 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 1: far too often when we hear about a young black 189 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 1: man being killed by police under sometimes questionable circumstances. I 190 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 1: was just reading yesterday about that fifteen year old boy 191 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 1: in Dallas who uh was shot by a police officer 192 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: when the car he was in was backing up, and 193 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 1: initially the police that it was reversing in an aggressive 194 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 1: manner um. That statement, by the way, was later retracted. 195 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 1: But how do we stop these heartbreaking incidents from happening? 196 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:01,960 Speaker 1: Have you? You know, there's been so much attention on 197 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:04,560 Speaker 1: these shooting scream as you well know, do you do 198 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 1: you see any solution or anything that's happening in departments, say, 199 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 1: around the country that gives you hope or you know, 200 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 1: every time you hear about a story like this, do 201 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:18,559 Speaker 1: you think, why, why isn't more being done to address 202 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 1: this problem? Well, I'm encouraged by a few things that 203 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 1: that I see in that attempt to try to deal 204 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:30,079 Speaker 1: with these issues, with the cameras, the uh, the body cameras, 205 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: and just the fact that that we can talk about 206 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 1: it now and I know that it's a problem. For 207 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:38,559 Speaker 1: the longest time, people used to deny that it was 208 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 1: a problem, and then they have Then they have this 209 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 1: thing called the cell phone with cameras on it. Right, 210 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 1: everything changed that That changed a lot of things because 211 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:50,920 Speaker 1: people began to understand that it really was a problem. 212 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:54,680 Speaker 1: Lack Americans weren't making these things up just to cover 213 00:12:54,800 --> 00:13:00,200 Speaker 1: their own innate criminality. People believe that mynth. You know 214 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 1: that that's a myth. People would actually believe that. But 215 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:09,559 Speaker 1: now we can see that it's it's just bias. Um, 216 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 1: all criminals deserve to be apprehended and prosecuted, no matter 217 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 1: what color they are, no matter you know what the crime. 218 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 1: That said, Uh, we can't be biased in doing that. 219 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 1: You know, either it is probable cause that there isn't 220 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:32,200 Speaker 1: you know, lots of workern as you know, is being 221 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 1: done with implicit bias, you know, unconscious bias at police 222 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 1: departments all over the country. So do you do you 223 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 1: feel hopeful that retraining and I mean some of this 224 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 1: is so deeply ingrained, right, very it's it's ingrained in 225 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 1: the culture of our country. Some of it goes back to, uh, 226 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 1: the fugitive slay that which was I believe eighteen fifty 227 00:13:56,360 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 1: where one I think I'm kidding, I don't know, Yeah, yeah, 228 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:07,840 Speaker 1: I think you're right fifty one. But um, whatever it 229 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:12,959 Speaker 1: was American citizens were told that they should apprehend and 230 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 1: hold escape property, which actually were people fleeing, uh, being 231 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 1: kidnapped and worked to death in the South, so that 232 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 1: they could make a profit on on cotton. That that's 233 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 1: was the premise. You know, Uh, this is our property, 234 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 1: and you guys got to help control these people because 235 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 1: we can't control them in there again, innate and lee 236 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 1: wild people because they come from Africa. And it was 237 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 1: a real great the propaganda job that enabled that that 238 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 1: system to last until people realized that these people were 239 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: human beings. And thank having for President Lincoln. Uh, despite 240 00:14:56,600 --> 00:15:00,200 Speaker 1: despite what Mr Trump has to say, which brings me 241 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 1: to my next topic, how do you think he's doing 242 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 1: as president? Jeez Um, it's real obvious disparity between what 243 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 1: we're going through now and I thought the competence and 244 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 1: honestly of President Obama, it's a dramatic difference. We're going 245 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 1: to take a quick break. We'll be back with more 246 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 1: from Kareem Abdul Jabbar right after this, and now back 247 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 1: to my conversation with Kareem Abdul Jabbar or kJ as 248 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 1: I call him. You. You wrote a piece for the 249 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 1: Washington Post about what it means to be black during 250 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 1: a Trump administration. And here's an excerpt injustices were easier 251 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 1: to endure when there seemed to be a sustained path 252 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 1: to improvement that the country supported. But now we have 253 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 1: the what have you got to lose? Non policy? The 254 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 1: bulldozes the path to rubble. Specifically, how do you believe 255 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 1: that path is being bulldozed kareem um? Just the way 256 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 1: that they're trying to uh return tax dollars to the 257 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 1: wealthiest one percent on the backs of people who need money, 258 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 1: uh for better educational opportunities and roads and airports and 259 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 1: train infrastructure, bridges, tunnels. They need to be upheld taking 260 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 1: away from the things that benefit the middle class and 261 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 1: give lower class people jobs. It's not it's not a 262 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 1: good formula. And I don't you know, having someone who's 263 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 1: a multi millionaire in office who doesn't care or even 264 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:05,960 Speaker 1: understand the the workings of how people make it from 265 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:08,880 Speaker 1: the lower classes into the middle class or possibly into 266 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 1: the upper class. He doesn't understand how that happens because 267 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:16,600 Speaker 1: he was smart enough to you know, inherit two hundred 268 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:20,159 Speaker 1: million when he when he was born. You know, I 269 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,439 Speaker 1: didn't have those kind of smarts, so I had to 270 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:27,160 Speaker 1: do it the hard way, and um, most of us 271 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 1: have to do it that way. Let's let's talk about 272 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:34,800 Speaker 1: when you converted to Islam nearly fifty years ago. What 273 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:38,679 Speaker 1: motivated you to do that? Cream. I was raised Catholic, 274 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:41,119 Speaker 1: and the Catholic Church had a big hand in the 275 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:45,680 Speaker 1: slave trade. I resented that, but I had a strong 276 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 1: belief in monotheism. So as a person of African descent, 277 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:54,240 Speaker 1: I wanted to practice Monotheism in a way that was 278 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:58,360 Speaker 1: more compatible with where I was from, and that was Islam. 279 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 1: I learned about his Lama. I read the autobiography of 280 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 1: Malcolm X. That really prompted me to want to learn 281 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:07,360 Speaker 1: about Islam, and I found it to be something that 282 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:11,159 Speaker 1: made sense to me, and I converted when I was 283 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:15,160 Speaker 1: about the nineteen or twenty years old. We've seen hostility 284 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:19,640 Speaker 1: towards Muslims, not just in this country but around the world. 285 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:23,480 Speaker 1: What can be done about that? And what do you 286 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:28,680 Speaker 1: think is the most misunderstood part of Islam? I think 287 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:33,160 Speaker 1: the most misunderstood part about Islam is that they feel that, uh, 288 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 1: we're taught to be violent. The Muslim community during the 289 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 1: time of the Prophet were was attacked, and they learned 290 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 1: how to be vigilant, and that's in the Koran. To 291 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:46,879 Speaker 1: be vigilant, but to make peace with people and to 292 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:49,400 Speaker 1: keep up your end of all peace treaties. That that's 293 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 1: what the Koran tells us. That's what most Muslims used 294 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:55,680 Speaker 1: to try to do. And now there's some crazy people. 295 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:59,440 Speaker 1: Let's say that they are Muslims and they are barbaric, 296 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 1: murderer some of the things that they've tried to put 297 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:08,800 Speaker 1: out there, these issist people, it's it's barbarity. They didn't 298 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:12,360 Speaker 1: learn that from the teachings of the prophet Muhammad. It's 299 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 1: just it's like saying that the Christian knights of the 300 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:19,200 Speaker 1: ku Klux Klan represent the teachings of Jesus, So that 301 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:24,399 Speaker 1: that's impossible. This radical Jahodism or whether they want to 302 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 1: call it, um, that's not that's not compatible with the 303 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 1: teachings of Islam. And I hope people can get that. 304 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 1: Thank you know, you've you've spoken out about this, You've 305 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:42,640 Speaker 1: written about it extensively. Um. One of the complaints that 306 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:46,240 Speaker 1: you know, I've heard in various circles is that there 307 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 1: aren't enough moderate Muslims speaking out, not just in this country, 308 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:57,640 Speaker 1: but around the world against this this fundamentalists uh interpretation 309 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:00,639 Speaker 1: if you will, of the Kuran. Do you wish that 310 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 1: more people would speak out against that as a way 311 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:09,440 Speaker 1: of really explaining what Islam truly is well, I don't 312 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:13,360 Speaker 1: think that voices of moderation are heard in the places 313 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:17,160 Speaker 1: where these things are happening. The places where these things 314 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 1: are happening are are ruled by uh, really bad governance, 315 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 1: strong men, kings. Uh, they're very often corrupt. If they 316 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 1: have any mineral wealth, there's one group that controls it 317 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:33,400 Speaker 1: and controls all the wealth in the country and therefore 318 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 1: sets the agenda for everything. And the common person is 319 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 1: forgotten in those places. And you have really very wealthy 320 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:46,680 Speaker 1: elites that they don't It's like a whole family of Trump's, 321 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:51,199 Speaker 1: you know, like thousands of them. It's bad stuff. You know, 322 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:54,679 Speaker 1: they have a very distorted view of what life is about. 323 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 1: What was your reaction when President Trump temporarily banded travel 324 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:02,960 Speaker 1: from at first seven and later six predominantly Muslim countries. 325 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 1: I was very disappointed. I think he's trying to escapegoat 326 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 1: He's trying to escapegoat one group, and um, I think 327 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 1: it's caused some very bad things that start happening. Hate 328 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 1: crimes have risen. We saw what happened in the Jewish 329 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:24,920 Speaker 1: cemetery in St. Louis, the mosque in Texas. Any mom 330 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:27,919 Speaker 1: I think in New Jersey was was murdered. Um. You know, 331 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:33,120 Speaker 1: it's it's getting really more serious. Acts of violence directed 332 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 1: against Muslims or against people who people think are Muslims. 333 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 1: Some seekh people, most the people from India who wear turbans. 334 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:44,680 Speaker 1: People some people think they're Muslims, they're not. They're They're 335 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: getting attacked. It's getting crazy and it doesn't make sense. 336 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:53,040 Speaker 1: And the leader of our country should try to really 337 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:57,160 Speaker 1: calm this whole atmosphere down and you know, be rational. 338 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:01,359 Speaker 1: There are people we need to fear, but just anybody 339 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:05,639 Speaker 1: who looks different fearing them is not That's that's not 340 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 1: going to get it. Let me ask you about your 341 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:13,200 Speaker 1: chronic mylod My Lloyd leukemia. You were diagnosed in two 342 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 1: thousand nine. Today you're still in remission, feeling good, very good. 343 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 1: Thank you, and you were awarded a double Helix Medal 344 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 1: in two thousand eleven for your work and raising awareness 345 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 1: for cancer research. You've been very helpful to stand up 346 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 1: to cancers and we appreciate that so much. Greem Um, 347 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 1: so so how thicky, How how did that diagnosis change 348 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 1: you for your priorities, your perspective. I think it really 349 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 1: helped me understand that how precious my time is. Well, 350 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 1: Raymond and I talked about this. He said, the Angel 351 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:58,640 Speaker 1: of Death was on vacation in China, going to all 352 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,399 Speaker 1: the beaches, and now are driving up and down with 353 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 1: your boulevard in a cab looking for you. Um, things 354 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 1: start to you know, your perspective changes, you know, all 355 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,440 Speaker 1: of a sudden, Hey, you might run up on the 356 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:14,560 Speaker 1: end of your days and you want to make sure 357 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 1: that you you do the right things for all the 358 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 1: people and all the causes that that are important to you. 359 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:23,360 Speaker 1: You know. So it's really helped me get a lot 360 00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 1: more done. You are so outspoken about a variety of issues. 361 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,720 Speaker 1: Do you ever regret sort of putting yourself out there 362 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 1: in such a way. I know you have two million 363 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:37,399 Speaker 1: Twitter followers. I don't even want to read those comments. Cream. 364 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:41,680 Speaker 1: That scares me to death, even the idea of that. Um, 365 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:47,840 Speaker 1: but I'm sure you get a fair amount of backlash. Yeah, yeah, 366 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:53,640 Speaker 1: I know you do. Yeah, yeah, thanks for reminding me. 367 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 1: But he comes in the form of like tweets. Now 368 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 1: you don't really get any thing right, No, but that 369 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:05,880 Speaker 1: that that's uh. Actually it's easier for them with with tweet, 370 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,920 Speaker 1: they don't have to thinking. It's very hard for these people, 371 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 1: and you limit the number of characters that see. It's 372 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 1: easier on them. You know, do you ever do you 373 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 1: ever engage with them? No? No, never, No. I really 374 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:26,879 Speaker 1: took a lot of heart and inspiration from from Mr Lewis, 375 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:31,480 Speaker 1: Mr John Lewis. I remember watching on the news the 376 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 1: time when he let those people across they had been 377 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:40,199 Speaker 1: Pettis Bridge, and I wept. I was like fourteen or 378 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:44,159 Speaker 1: fifteen years old. I was crying. And the man is 379 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:48,119 Speaker 1: he's not bitter, he's not angry. I've heard him speaking. 380 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 1: He said, if you don't put your life on the line, 381 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:58,159 Speaker 1: you're not committed to non violence and uh progress, And 382 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:02,239 Speaker 1: it just it It makes me smile and makes me 383 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:05,360 Speaker 1: realize that they you only have so much time, and 384 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,880 Speaker 1: you can't worry about how you leave here. You got 385 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:18,720 Speaker 1: to leave here doing the right thing. That's such a 386 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,119 Speaker 1: that's such a great way to end our conversation. But 387 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:23,919 Speaker 1: I have a few more questions. Real quickly. Um. I 388 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,119 Speaker 1: wanted to ask you. First of all, you turned seventy. 389 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,920 Speaker 1: You're so skinny. Yeah, so so what up with that? 390 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 1: You just do have to watch what you eat? Apparently not. 391 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:37,439 Speaker 1: I've always been skinny, I know that. But but I 392 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 1: mean how you you how for someone who's spent so 393 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 1: much of his life in top physical uh shape? How 394 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 1: how has it felt to age? If you're Kareem Abdul Jabbar, 395 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,120 Speaker 1: I feel that I've done pretty good at it. Um. 396 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 1: You're building a swimming pool, Yeah, so I can swim 397 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,880 Speaker 1: every day? Yeah? Is that something you do regularly? Swim? Yeah, 398 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:03,240 Speaker 1: it's a family thing. Kareem moved to Orange County and 399 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 1: he's building flaming fool. I asked him if he saw 400 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:09,159 Speaker 1: the Real Housewives there. He said, no, no, no, I 401 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:13,080 Speaker 1: don't want to say but not even at the grocery store. No, no, no. 402 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 1: My grandmother was from a part of my family's fur 403 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 1: in the West Indies. I grow on from Trinidad, part 404 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,200 Speaker 1: of training dad called Grand River. There's there's no plumbing 405 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:28,879 Speaker 1: out there. She swam in the river to bathe or 406 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 1: in the ocean. So flaming has always been a big deal. 407 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 1: What else do you do to stay in shape, some yoga, 408 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,359 Speaker 1: jump rope and stuff. I'm trying to keep the pounds 409 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 1: off and stay healthy and cherish these days. I'm on 410 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:46,960 Speaker 1: borrow time now, so I'm hoping I'm gonna be huge 411 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:52,400 Speaker 1: debt here. Um, Jim Gray are my friend Jim Gray 412 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:54,679 Speaker 1: is here somewhere. And I said, Jim, think of a 413 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:59,200 Speaker 1: really good sports question for Karee because I'm not super sporty, 414 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 1: but so this was his question. You came along with 415 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:09,840 Speaker 1: Bill Russell, Bill Walton, we're big men. Really mattered, Um, 416 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,479 Speaker 1: but what do you think about the current stars like 417 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 1: Steph Curry and Lebron It's become a smaller man's game 418 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 1: and the time when giants roam the earth is kind 419 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 1: of over now. I don't really understand that question, but 420 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:28,399 Speaker 1: it sounded good and and I thought it. I don't know, 421 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:30,679 Speaker 1: I kind of he was very poetic and he just 422 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 1: came up with it like that. So what do you 423 00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:36,159 Speaker 1: think of that? He's talking about what they call small 424 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 1: ball and it means that the three point shot has 425 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 1: changed the game, No, no question that that wonderful year 426 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 1: when we beat the Celtics for the first time from 427 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,159 Speaker 1: the very first Uh, for the first game of the 428 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,720 Speaker 1: season to the last game of the playoffs, we made 429 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:58,119 Speaker 1: nine odd three point shots in the In the twenty 430 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:03,280 Speaker 1: fifteen season when Golden State won, between the first game 431 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:05,679 Speaker 1: of season and the last game of the playoffs, they 432 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:11,160 Speaker 1: made one thousand, seventy seven three point shots. Game has 433 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:15,919 Speaker 1: changed different games, so you know that. You know, putting 434 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 1: a premium on a shot like that means that if 435 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 1: you have long distance sharpshooters, they'll be able to score 436 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 1: more efficiently because that extra point really changes it. If 437 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 1: you can defend those guys and uh dominate under the 438 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 1: glass and not let them get any second shots, you 439 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:38,480 Speaker 1: can still dominate the game. So there will always be 440 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 1: space on the court for very tall guys that can 441 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,720 Speaker 1: do that. But there might be fewer of them, but 442 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 1: they'll never be like totally gone. Um, they won't be 443 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 1: able to get rid of us, Son't that That's That's 444 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 1: what I'm saying. You know why I love talking to Kareem. 445 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 1: This was really a privilege for me. Kareem Abdul Jabbar 446 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 1: okay where ribs. Thank you so much to the Milk 447 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 1: and Institute for hosting this episode's conversation at their global 448 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:16,239 Speaker 1: conference in Los Angeles. It was a fascinating experience. I 449 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:21,320 Speaker 1: really appreciated the opportunity to be there. Also, to their engineers, 450 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 1: by the way, who recorded this, a big thank you 451 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 1: to Gianna Palmer for producing the show, to my bff 452 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 1: Jared O'Connell for mixing it, and to Noor Richie for 453 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,200 Speaker 1: additional production assistance. Noura, by the way, just got her 454 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,880 Speaker 1: hair cut. It looks quite fetching. And now do we 455 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 1: have to say everybody else's fetching social media? Maybe Alison 456 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 1: Bresnik also fetching. And to Emily Beena always fetching for 457 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 1: her part in producing this show. Mark Phillips, thank you 458 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,400 Speaker 1: as always for our addictive theme music, at least addictive 459 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,160 Speaker 1: to the We never met Mark Phillips, so I can't 460 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:57,000 Speaker 1: say whether he's fetching or not, but sometimes we'll have 461 00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 1: an opportunity to to see him in person. Me while 462 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 1: Brian Goldsmith and I are executive producers of this and 463 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 1: Don't forget, you can email us at comments at correct 464 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:09,320 Speaker 1: podcast dot com. You can find me on social media 465 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 1: all too often, according to my husband. I'm Katie Couric 466 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 1: on Twitter and Instagram, Katie dot corric on Snapchat, brian 467 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 1: Is Goldsmith b on Twitter and if you like our show, 468 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 1: please rate and review it. It helps more people to 469 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:27,160 Speaker 1: find it on Apple Podcasts, and please subscribe as well. 470 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 1: We will talk to you next time.