1
00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:21,160
Speaker 1: Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. I can't help myself.

2
00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:25,360
Speaker 1: As tried as it is. I used to really loathe

3
00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:27,960
Speaker 1: the thought that Christmas was around the corner, because it

4
00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:31,560
Speaker 1: always meant buying gifts, and it always meant me having

5
00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:35,160
Speaker 1: to spend money, and it meant rushing about and waiting

6
00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:39,320
Speaker 1: to the last minute to accomplish those tasks. But something

7
00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:43,240
Speaker 1: has changed in me. I'm a grandfather now, and now

8
00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:49,839
Speaker 1: I cannot wait for Christmas to come around because the

9
00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:55,280
Speaker 1: circle is complete. Can you imagine going to Florida to

10
00:00:55,400 --> 00:01:00,200
Speaker 1: celebrate perhaps Christmas with your wife. You're hanging out a

11
00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:04,000
Speaker 1: house you live in New Jersey. You've escaped the cold weather,

12
00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:07,640
Speaker 1: and you're headed down south to sunny Florida, and you're

13
00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:11,320
Speaker 1: just going to relax and enjoy the Christmas season. And

14
00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:16,760
Speaker 1: on the night of December the twentieth, nineteen eighty nine,

15
00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:22,840
Speaker 1: a couple were seated in their home in Flagler County, Florida.

16
00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:27,399
Speaker 1: And there's a beautiful window with little panes that have

17
00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:31,200
Speaker 1: been placed in the window of Christmas images, Santa Claus

18
00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:33,440
Speaker 1: and Christmas trees, and all of a sudden, that window

19
00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:38,760
Speaker 1: just explodes. You're sitting in your chair, you're watching television

20
00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:42,759
Speaker 1: and it explodes as a result of bullets passing through it,

21
00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:48,040
Speaker 1: and suddenly your life ends. Today we're going to talk

22
00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:53,920
Speaker 1: about the brutal homicides of Robert and Georgiatt sternfalls on

23
00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:58,600
Speaker 1: the night of December the twentieth, nineteen eighty nine. I'm

24
00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:07,280
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks Dave mac. Are

25
00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:10,360
Speaker 1: you a fan of Christmas? Do you like Christmas? Yes?

26
00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:13,680
Speaker 1: I do you do? Yeah? Well I do too, man.

27
00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:16,720
Speaker 2: I've actually never been asked that question as an adult.

28
00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:19,360
Speaker 1: Really yeah. And it's a different way of looking at it.

29
00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:21,320
Speaker 1: When you're a kid they ask you that question. Of

30
00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:23,320
Speaker 1: course on forty out of your mind, of course I

31
00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:26,639
Speaker 1: like Christmas. But as an adult you start to I

32
00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:29,399
Speaker 1: don't know, it's just me. I sit there and I think,

33
00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:32,079
Speaker 1: oh god, it used to be such a labor But now, man,

34
00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,240
Speaker 1: when you get grandbabies, it's such a cool thing. It

35
00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:36,800
Speaker 1: really is for me at least.

36
00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:40,280
Speaker 2: And also one of the things about Christmas specifically that

37
00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:44,600
Speaker 2: causes our memories as we get older to get bigger

38
00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:48,280
Speaker 2: and more loving, is because it tends to remind us

39
00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:51,120
Speaker 2: of very special times when we were a child, and

40
00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:54,920
Speaker 2: our parents were younger, and our grandparents. It reminds us

41
00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:57,600
Speaker 2: of those times and that's a very warm thing. So

42
00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:00,640
Speaker 2: there's multiple things going into the whole Christmas sphere beyond

43
00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:03,720
Speaker 2: just the active gift giving that as an adult, it's

44
00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:05,799
Speaker 2: which credit card to we used to buy this with?

45
00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:08,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I hate to beat that cynical about it. I

46
00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:11,840
Speaker 1: truly do, and I've tried to get past that. I

47
00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:15,160
Speaker 1: really have Dave, and I'm chief among sinners in that area.

48
00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:17,720
Speaker 1: But you know, now, you get a little bit older

49
00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:20,200
Speaker 1: and you get a few miles on the tires and

50
00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:22,880
Speaker 1: you think, wow, this is really a great opportunity to

51
00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:25,560
Speaker 1: be together as a family and to celebrate, right.

52
00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:27,360
Speaker 2: And that's what I mean. As you get older, you

53
00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:30,520
Speaker 2: recognize those things. When you're younger, you don't because you're

54
00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:32,760
Speaker 2: a kid. But then even when you first have children,

55
00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:35,360
Speaker 2: you remember this. When you're a young parent, there's a

56
00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:38,760
Speaker 2: lot of stress involved with Christmas. It's only after you

57
00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:42,040
Speaker 2: get older. And that's why I have such a loving,

58
00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:45,040
Speaker 2: wonderful feeling when I think of Christmas. It reminds me

59
00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:47,680
Speaker 2: of my mother and my grandparents and people that are

60
00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:51,200
Speaker 2: no longer with us. And that's why it's so special.

61
00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:53,720
Speaker 2: And of course, you know you mentioned grandchildren. This is

62
00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:55,720
Speaker 2: the time for Pop Paul to show off. What do

63
00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:57,000
Speaker 2: you mean you can't have a pony?

64
00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:02,000
Speaker 1: You're absolutely right. And I wonder thinking about Robert and Georgiette.

65
00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:05,040
Speaker 1: They had made the trip down from their New Jersey

66
00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:10,320
Speaker 1: home to spend the holiday season down in what they're

67
00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:13,520
Speaker 1: referred to as the Palm Coast down there, and they're

68
00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:17,160
Speaker 1: just minding their own business. And this is what's so horrible.

69
00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:21,760
Speaker 1: The case is horrible anyway, all right, But what is

70
00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:25,560
Speaker 1: so horrible is that this kind of peaceful thing that's

71
00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:29,200
Speaker 1: going on, and you're sitting there and I can't imagine

72
00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:31,400
Speaker 1: the horror I saw the crime scene photos from this,

73
00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:35,400
Speaker 1: by the way, particularly this blown out window I was

74
00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:39,559
Speaker 1: referring to. You're sitting there in your chair. You're there

75
00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:42,120
Speaker 1: with this person that you're spending the rest of your

76
00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:45,840
Speaker 1: life with, and all of a sudden, your world just

77
00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:49,960
Speaker 1: crashes in on you. Literally, in just a few moments,

78
00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:53,479
Speaker 1: your life comes to an end in this home that

79
00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:56,680
Speaker 1: is just kind of a it's not like home in

80
00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,520
Speaker 1: New Jersey. It's a home that you've come to in

81
00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:03,440
Speaker 1: Florida to stay and spend part of the year, and

82
00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:06,080
Speaker 1: I just I can't begin to imagine.

83
00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:09,359
Speaker 2: Dave going to Florida. It's almost a right of passage.

84
00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:12,080
Speaker 2: Once you reach a certain age, you go there for

85
00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:15,680
Speaker 2: the comfort of the warmer climate and everything else and snowbirds.

86
00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:16,000
Speaker 1: Yeah.

87
00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:19,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. And with regard to the Strumfells, they are fifty

88
00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:22,400
Speaker 2: six and fifty five years old. They're just relaxing. It's

89
00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,279
Speaker 2: an evening. It's the two of them. It's quiet, they're

90
00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:32,040
Speaker 2: just watching TV. But outside their window lurks a ninja. Now,

91
00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:36,000
Speaker 2: this man, Lewis Gaskins has been referred to as the

92
00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:40,600
Speaker 2: quote unquote ninja killer that somehow romanticizes the fact that

93
00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:44,240
Speaker 2: this guy is a cold blooded killer that decided to

94
00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:48,279
Speaker 2: do his Christmas shopping while committing the most heinous act

95
00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:51,799
Speaker 2: of murder one can imagine. Backing up here, a twenty

96
00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:56,080
Speaker 2: two caliber rifle. I've always thought of that weapon as

97
00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:59,440
Speaker 2: one step up from a pellet gun. I've never thought

98
00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:03,680
Speaker 2: of a twenty as the type of killing machine that

99
00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:06,440
Speaker 2: it really is. Am I correct in assuming that a

100
00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:08,000
Speaker 2: lot of people think the same thing.

101
00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:10,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, you are, Because when you look at the spectrum,

102
00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:14,560
Speaker 1: and there's a spectrum of pistol and rifle cartridges out there.

103
00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:17,960
Speaker 1: It's on the low end as far as the size

104
00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:21,640
Speaker 1: of this. It's point two two and so it's it's

105
00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:25,280
Speaker 1: very tiny. But also keep this in mind, we fire

106
00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:28,320
Speaker 1: around in the military, I say we as a form assaultier.

107
00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:32,880
Speaker 1: We've fired around in the military called five point five

108
00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:36,240
Speaker 1: to six millimeter. But if you convert that over to

109
00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:40,760
Speaker 1: caliber instead of a millimeter, Dave, that's point two to three.

110
00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:45,360
Speaker 1: It's roughly the same diameter as the twenty two. It

111
00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:48,479
Speaker 1: has more bulk to it a bit the point two

112
00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:53,600
Speaker 1: two three, and it's also got more propellant with it

113
00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:56,479
Speaker 1: as well. In the shape of it too, it's got

114
00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:58,760
Speaker 1: this kind of conical shape, the point two two three.

115
00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:04,600
Speaker 1: With the rifle rounds being fired from a twenty two caliber,

116
00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:07,760
Speaker 1: I think back there's a variety of different types of

117
00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,160
Speaker 1: twenty two rounds. You've got like a twenty two short

118
00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:14,200
Speaker 1: that when you hear it fire you can barely make

119
00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:16,880
Speaker 1: out the sound. Many times it sounds it's a few

120
00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:21,920
Speaker 1: decibels higher than say firing a pellet rifle. Pellet rifle

121
00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:25,560
Speaker 1: will have that sound to it like that twenty two short.

122
00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:29,720
Speaker 1: It cracks the wind it's fired but when you go

123
00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:32,440
Speaker 1: above that and you get into a standard twenty two

124
00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:35,680
Speaker 1: and then certainly into a twenty two long rifle, that

125
00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:39,040
Speaker 1: round has a lot of power. What I can't figure out, Dave,

126
00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:43,320
Speaker 1: is that you got a perpetrator that shows up to

127
00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:46,360
Speaker 1: a scene. And this is not standard. You see it

128
00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:49,040
Speaker 1: in the movies all the time. All right, this is

129
00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:51,440
Speaker 1: not standard. You got a perpetrator that shows up to

130
00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:55,240
Speaker 1: a scene wielding a long arm. And a long arm

131
00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:58,080
Speaker 1: is a rifle or is a like a rifle. You

132
00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:02,280
Speaker 1: have to fire it from your shoulder, and the military

133
00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,000
Speaker 1: they refer to them as shoulder fired arms, and so

134
00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:07,720
Speaker 1: you have to nestle this thing into your shoulder. Now

135
00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:09,840
Speaker 1: you can fire it, Audie Murphy, I guess if you

136
00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:12,320
Speaker 1: want to from your hip, But standardly you put the

137
00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:15,680
Speaker 1: butt of the stock into your shoulder and you open up,

138
00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:20,240
Speaker 1: you fire, and you have more accuracy. But it doesn't

139
00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:23,440
Speaker 1: give you a lot of portability. With a pistol, you

140
00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:26,840
Speaker 1: can conceal it. Look, man, if you're walking down the

141
00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:31,000
Speaker 1: street and you're carrying a long arm, you're walking down

142
00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:33,599
Speaker 1: the street and you're carrying a rifle, I'm going to

143
00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:34,640
Speaker 1: take notice of you.

144
00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:38,600
Speaker 2: Bottom line as you mentioned carrying that rifle in broad

145
00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:40,800
Speaker 2: daylight would bring about a lot of attention. But in

146
00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:45,240
Speaker 2: the case of Lewis Gaskin, on this particular night, it

147
00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:50,760
Speaker 2: was dark. It was bedtime, and he was not necessarily bedtime,

148
00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:52,960
Speaker 2: but it was all dark. He's wearing all black. He

149
00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:57,199
Speaker 2: parked his car a ways away, and the home where

150
00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:00,199
Speaker 2: Robert and Georgia at Strumfells you know we're staying, was

151
00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:03,679
Speaker 2: actually their winter home. It wasn't a rental. Back then

152
00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:06,839
Speaker 2: they didn't have airbnbs. So if you had a place,

153
00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:09,560
Speaker 2: a house or whatever in Florida from New Jersey, that

154
00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:12,000
Speaker 2: was your winter summer home. However you wanted to look

155
00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:14,600
Speaker 2: at it. It was your escape from New York. And

156
00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:17,840
Speaker 2: that's why it was even more than just sitting at

157
00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:21,520
Speaker 2: a house at night, Joe. This was not just a house.

158
00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:25,720
Speaker 2: It was their getaway home. This was their peaceful environment.

159
00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:29,520
Speaker 2: They probably looked forward for months before they could go

160
00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:33,000
Speaker 2: to their winter or to their Florida home, their escape.

161
00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:38,520
Speaker 2: In their living room, in particular, mister Sternfel's George or

162
00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:42,480
Speaker 2: Robert rather is sitting in his recliner and I'm picturing

163
00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:44,400
Speaker 2: this man watching. You know, you got the TV on

164
00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:49,000
Speaker 2: you're just relaxing, and you mentioned the blast of the window.

165
00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:53,680
Speaker 2: Lewis Gaskins had parked his car down a ways from

166
00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:56,960
Speaker 2: the house. He walks up to the home and he

167
00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:00,160
Speaker 2: has his plan. He does not want to come in

168
00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:02,960
Speaker 2: in there while they're sleeping. He doesn't want to sneak

169
00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:05,520
Speaker 2: up on him that way. He needs them up and

170
00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:09,760
Speaker 2: about so that he can take them out from outside.

171
00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:13,319
Speaker 2: That's the part about this that really shocked me, Joe,

172
00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:18,160
Speaker 2: that Lewis Gaskin planned on shooting out the window to

173
00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:22,320
Speaker 2: take out the stern Fells. And when he takes that

174
00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:26,360
Speaker 2: first shot with his twenty two caliber rifle, he shoots

175
00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:30,840
Speaker 2: directly through the window and hits mister Sternfels in the chest.

176
00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:36,600
Speaker 2: He then shoots a second time and sees Georgett's stern

177
00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:39,160
Speaker 2: Fells as she starts to try to get out of

178
00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:42,679
Speaker 2: the room. She's headed to the hallway when Gaskin shoots her.

179
00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:45,520
Speaker 2: He then breaks out the window the rest of the way,

180
00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:47,800
Speaker 2: pulls the screen break, gets out the window and goes in.

181
00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:53,200
Speaker 2: He then puts another shot in the head of mister Sternfells,

182
00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:55,720
Speaker 2: who had been trying to get up again. By the way,

183
00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:58,040
Speaker 2: he had been shot twice. He's still trying to get

184
00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:01,480
Speaker 2: up Joe, and all like to think of is his

185
00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:06,040
Speaker 2: last moment was what in the world just happened? Bam bam,

186
00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:09,720
Speaker 2: bam so fast. His wife is trying to crawl her way,

187
00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:12,920
Speaker 2: and Lewis Gaskin goes around the house. He's looking in

188
00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:14,800
Speaker 2: windows to find to where she is. He wants to

189
00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:16,960
Speaker 2: take her out before he goes in as well, and

190
00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:19,120
Speaker 2: he gets in the house and shoots her in the head.

191
00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:23,079
Speaker 2: So we've got two murdered individuals.

192
00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:25,400
Speaker 1: And in that moment, those final moments of their lives,

193
00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:29,760
Speaker 1: as they are bleeding out, as Missus Stemfells is lying

194
00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:34,000
Speaker 1: in the hallway, Gaskins enters the home and robs them,

195
00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:40,240
Speaker 1: literally robs them, and their lives were exchanged for lamps, VCRs,

196
00:11:40,640 --> 00:12:02,640
Speaker 1: cash and a bit of jewelry. Just because you're shot

197
00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:06,679
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that your life immediately hinds. That's again a

198
00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:09,800
Speaker 1: lie that Hollywood has sold you. Gunshot wounds are painful.

199
00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:13,280
Speaker 1: There's an awareness many times that people have been shot.

200
00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:15,480
Speaker 1: There are other times when people are shot, in fact,

201
00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:18,280
Speaker 1: particularly with a high velocity round, where it will pass

202
00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:20,640
Speaker 1: through the body and they won't have an awareness, but

203
00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:24,520
Speaker 1: for the most part, depended upon where you were shot,

204
00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:28,080
Speaker 1: there is a high probability you're going to feel it.

205
00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:33,920
Speaker 1: In the case particularly of missus Sturmfels, she had an awareness.

206
00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:36,960
Speaker 1: I think something came up about what was it, Dave

207
00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:38,120
Speaker 1: about a dog.

208
00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:41,960
Speaker 2: You mentioned the noise that she made as she was dying.

209
00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:46,480
Speaker 2: He actually compared the gurgling sound to that of a dog,

210
00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:49,319
Speaker 2: a dog that you were taking out. The reason we

211
00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:51,840
Speaker 2: know a lot of what took place, Joe is this

212
00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:53,880
Speaker 2: career criminal. By the way, he was a young guy.

213
00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:56,760
Speaker 2: You know, Gaskins was only what twenty two years old

214
00:12:56,760 --> 00:13:00,280
Speaker 2: at the time of these murders, and he already had

215
00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:03,760
Speaker 2: a rap sheet. But we know that he picked this

216
00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:06,959
Speaker 2: house randomly. It could have been anybody, could have been

217
00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:09,679
Speaker 2: you or me, just happened to be the storm fellas

218
00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:12,600
Speaker 2: that night and he parks his car away. He goes

219
00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:14,559
Speaker 2: up to the house and says he circled the house.

220
00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:18,360
Speaker 2: He walked around it six times, six times. He walked

221
00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:20,920
Speaker 2: around the house before just you know, making the plan.

222
00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:23,120
Speaker 2: He already knew he was going to shoot from the outside.

223
00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:26,520
Speaker 2: And Joe, when you do that, when somebody shoots through

224
00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:31,240
Speaker 2: a window, to hit a target. And I boy, I

225
00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:33,880
Speaker 2: want to apologize to the families right now of anybody

226
00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:36,680
Speaker 2: who's ever been the victim of a violent crime. I

227
00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:39,640
Speaker 2: am not trying to act like this is nothing. The

228
00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:42,800
Speaker 2: man was murdered. And I don't know another way to

229
00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:46,080
Speaker 2: actually say this than to ask the bullet goes through

230
00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:49,400
Speaker 2: the window, does that not change its trajectory? Does it

231
00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:53,040
Speaker 2: take glass with it as it enters the body as

232
00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:56,720
Speaker 2: it goes? I mean, you're talking about going through screen, glass,

233
00:13:57,400 --> 00:13:59,920
Speaker 2: clothing before ever hitting the body.

234
00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:02,520
Speaker 1: You're right on all those points. And let me break

235
00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:07,160
Speaker 1: this down from forensics perspective, when around is fired through

236
00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:10,480
Speaker 1: what's referred to as an intermediate target, and that essentially

237
00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:14,360
Speaker 1: what that means is just imagine that you're standing staring

238
00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:18,240
Speaker 1: out a window and a rock flies through from the

239
00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:22,880
Speaker 1: outside and strikes the window and then happens to hit you. Well,

240
00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:28,640
Speaker 1: that glass window gives way, right, and that window acts

241
00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:31,960
Speaker 1: as almost kind of a barrier, not much of a barrier,

242
00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:36,240
Speaker 1: but a barrier nonetheless, and you are subsequently struck by

243
00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:39,840
Speaker 1: the rock. Now, the question would be would the rock

244
00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:44,960
Speaker 1: maintain first the same level of energy as when initially

245
00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:49,600
Speaker 1: thrown before striking the intermediate target and would it stay

246
00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:52,520
Speaker 1: or remain on the same path. Well, the answer to

247
00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:56,160
Speaker 1: both of those questions is no and no. So what happens,

248
00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:59,760
Speaker 1: well when around when even a bullet is fired and

249
00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:04,440
Speaker 1: it's strikes intermediate target. You mentioned the screen, You mentioned

250
00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:09,400
Speaker 1: the glass that is going to bleed energy of the round.

251
00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:13,520
Speaker 1: So as that explosion takes place in the barrel, the

252
00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:16,560
Speaker 1: muzzle velocity, which is kind of significant in a twenty

253
00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:20,120
Speaker 1: two rifle. All right, it's spinning. We know that because

254
00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:24,520
Speaker 1: of the rifling that is within the structure of the bullet.

255
00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:27,480
Speaker 1: It twists. It either twist to the left or twist

256
00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:30,320
Speaker 1: to the right, either way as it is spinning. It's

257
00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:33,240
Speaker 1: like a football if you've ever seen a football that

258
00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:35,360
Speaker 1: is thrown, and it's kind of what they refer to

259
00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:37,560
Speaker 1: as a wounded duck where it kind of flutters in

260
00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:42,720
Speaker 1: the air. That means that the spin is not present

261
00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:46,320
Speaker 1: in the bullet as it should be, because if thrown correctly,

262
00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:50,880
Speaker 1: the bullet will maintain that tight spin as it travels

263
00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:54,600
Speaker 1: down range, and it will maintain all of those ideal

264
00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:59,440
Speaker 1: ballistic characteristics. Bullet works the same way as it's flying

265
00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:03,720
Speaker 1: through the air, and it strikes glass, the screen the glass,

266
00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:07,680
Speaker 1: it's going to bleed off energy, and then depended upon

267
00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:11,200
Speaker 1: the position of the shooter that is when the round

268
00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:15,880
Speaker 1: is first fired and their position relative to the intermediate target.

269
00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:19,520
Speaker 1: Remember he could see them through this glass and he

270
00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:22,960
Speaker 1: fires at them, the pitch of the round is going

271
00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:26,640
Speaker 1: to change. There's a high probability it will probably drop

272
00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:29,400
Speaker 1: down because gravity is working on the bullet as well

273
00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:32,400
Speaker 1: as this intermediate target. So even as a bullet is

274
00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:36,320
Speaker 1: traveling through the air, it's fighting against this downward pull

275
00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:41,040
Speaker 1: of gravity all the while. Now, the initial energy that's

276
00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:45,080
Speaker 1: generated in that blast will defeat gravity just for a

277
00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:48,360
Speaker 1: few seconds, but after it's traveled out of the end

278
00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:51,040
Speaker 1: of the barrel, gravity takes hold and it begins to

279
00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:54,360
Speaker 1: pull it down. That's why when you see people fire

280
00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:58,000
Speaker 1: around at a great distance, like snipers, they have to

281
00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:02,320
Speaker 1: elevate and adjust for bullet drop. The short of the range,

282
00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:05,480
Speaker 1: it doesn't have as much of an effect. But then

283
00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:09,440
Speaker 1: you throw glass into it and it does begin to pull,

284
00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:13,320
Speaker 1: and it pulls downward. And as it pulls downward, it

285
00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:17,120
Speaker 1: even deflects further downward with the striking of the glass.

286
00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:21,320
Speaker 1: And so if you were aiming save for instance, at well,

287
00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:23,560
Speaker 1: let's just say you had a target where you're aiming

288
00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:26,840
Speaker 1: just below. If you think of a silhouette of a person,

289
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:28,800
Speaker 1: one of those that you see at a firing range

290
00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:30,560
Speaker 1: that has a head on it in the shoulders and

291
00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:32,200
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. Let's just say that you were

292
00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:35,200
Speaker 1: aiming at the chin of a target and you're firing

293
00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:38,720
Speaker 1: through a piece of glass. There's a high probability that

294
00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:41,720
Speaker 1: you will not hit the chin. You might hit center

295
00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:44,080
Speaker 1: mass in the chest. It'll drop down to where the

296
00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:47,680
Speaker 1: breastbone is, the sternum. Once the glasses, it is blown out.

297
00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:49,840
Speaker 1: If you fire another round at that point, now you

298
00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:53,000
Speaker 1: don't have an intermediate target any longer. But I like

299
00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:56,720
Speaker 1: what you did when you mentioned the nature of the glass.

300
00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:59,800
Speaker 1: Glass is fascinating. We can learn a lot from it.

301
00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,800
Speaker 1: First off, you mentioned the nature of the glass flying

302
00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:06,600
Speaker 1: through the air well. Glass is just sitting there being glass,

303
00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:10,600
Speaker 1: all right, and once this energy is introduced into it,

304
00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:14,160
Speaker 1: it's very brittle, as we all know, it's blasted outward.

305
00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:20,200
Speaker 1: It doesn't have optimum aerodynamic qualities. So you've got static

306
00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:22,960
Speaker 1: glass that's sitting there and a bullet meets it, it

307
00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:27,280
Speaker 1: blows it out. And for a few inches, maybe a

308
00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:30,199
Speaker 1: foot or two, you'll get the glass blasted out, and

309
00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:33,800
Speaker 1: for that moment in time, you'll see it turn into

310
00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:37,000
Speaker 1: like little flecks of shrapnel. And sometimes a glass will

311
00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:40,439
Speaker 1: actually burst so that it creates almost a powder. But

312
00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:43,680
Speaker 1: then you'll get the heftier fragments that will travel down range. Dave,

313
00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:47,680
Speaker 1: I've actually had cases where people have been shot while

314
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:52,520
Speaker 1: seated in a car with the driver's side window up.

315
00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:56,240
Speaker 1: Now that's safety glass. Their entire courses taught in glass

316
00:18:56,280 --> 00:19:00,560
Speaker 1: and forensics. But I've seen a shotgun blast go through

317
00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:05,760
Speaker 1: a car window where the glass, along with the pellets

318
00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:08,720
Speaker 1: from the shotgun are embedded in the body. So you'll

319
00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,920
Speaker 1: find you'll be picking bits of glass. But in this

320
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:16,399
Speaker 1: particular case, I think that there's sufficient distance that the

321
00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:19,800
Speaker 1: lack of aerodynamicism in the glass, the glass will have

322
00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,560
Speaker 1: essentially shatter and fallen away. But you'll see it all

323
00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:23,320
Speaker 1: over the floor.

324
00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:29,000
Speaker 2: And when this actually transpired, Joe, we had mister Sternfel's

325
00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,600
Speaker 2: got up after the first shot. It says he stood

326
00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:35,600
Speaker 2: up and that caused an immediate second shot from Gaskins

327
00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:41,359
Speaker 2: that dropped him. In this process, missus sturnfell, she actually

328
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:45,160
Speaker 2: realizes what's happening after the second shot, and that's when

329
00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:47,359
Speaker 2: she goes to move to get out of the room,

330
00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:51,560
Speaker 2: and that's when Lewis Gaskins shoots her for the first time.

331
00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:55,320
Speaker 2: Right there, when she realizes something bad has just now

332
00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:58,520
Speaker 2: happened in this house. My husband has been shot twice. Boom,

333
00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:01,920
Speaker 2: Now she is hit. Storm fells and I don't know

334
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,200
Speaker 2: how this is even possible. After being shot twice, he

335
00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:08,240
Speaker 2: actually tries to make it to his feet a third time,

336
00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:12,000
Speaker 2: Joe to get to his wife, and that's when we

337
00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:15,400
Speaker 2: now know. Gaskins grabs his knife from his pocket, cuts

338
00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:18,919
Speaker 2: the screen out, comes into the house, and then shoots

339
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:20,880
Speaker 2: him right in the head to kill shot.

340
00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:25,119
Speaker 1: He executes him, Yeah, he does. In this confession that

341
00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:29,199
Speaker 1: Gaskin makes, he states, like putting down a dog or

342
00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:31,679
Speaker 1: something to that effect. First off, how do you know

343
00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:33,399
Speaker 1: what it's like to put down a dog? And that

344
00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:35,280
Speaker 1: gives you a real insight, doesn't it that?

345
00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:37,080
Speaker 2: It does? I did that pass me. I'm glad you

346
00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:37,639
Speaker 2: brought that up.

347
00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:40,400
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe you were out shooting dogs before

348
00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:42,600
Speaker 1: you decided to take out humans. I have no idea,

349
00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,639
Speaker 1: but I do know this, he said, that that Georgette

350
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:51,240
Speaker 1: was actually gurgling like a dog. And if that's the case,

351
00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:53,959
Speaker 1: this is what I know that because I've seen it.

352
00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:56,760
Speaker 1: It seems this is more than likely a shot that

353
00:20:56,800 --> 00:21:00,199
Speaker 1: would have passed through her lungs, and you you get

354
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:04,240
Speaker 1: this kind of fine pink aspirit that issues forth out

355
00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,359
Speaker 1: of your mouth and these death throws, if you will,

356
00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:11,439
Speaker 1: And she's crawling down the hallway, and so there's this

357
00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:15,600
Speaker 1: trail of kind of frothy blood that's been left behind her.

358
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:18,320
Speaker 1: And you can still see this many times at the

359
00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:20,520
Speaker 1: scene when you arrive, and you can certainly see it

360
00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:22,560
Speaker 1: still issuing from the nose in the mouth, and this

361
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:26,240
Speaker 1: is this kind of hyper arated blood because of this

362
00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:28,720
Speaker 1: gurgling that's taking place. You've been shot in the lung,

363
00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:32,320
Speaker 1: so they've got this death wheeze that's going on. And

364
00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:36,560
Speaker 1: then he walks up after he's Gaskins has made entry

365
00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:40,399
Speaker 1: into the home, and he shoots her in the back

366
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:43,840
Speaker 1: of the head and executes her. And at this point

367
00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:47,359
Speaker 1: that he goes about beginning to burglarize the home. And

368
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,639
Speaker 1: if I remember correctly, Dave, I think that it was

369
00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:55,480
Speaker 1: for the purpose of getting Christmas presents. If I'm not mistaken.

370
00:21:55,920 --> 00:22:00,840
Speaker 2: The saddest part of crime is the motive evading factor

371
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:04,600
Speaker 2: that began this whole What took place? Yeah, it was

372
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:09,200
Speaker 2: December twentieth and the criminal needed to go Christmas shopping.

373
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:11,720
Speaker 2: What did criminals do? They don't go to the store

374
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:14,960
Speaker 2: and shop. No, that's the easy thing to do. Askin

375
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:19,760
Speaker 2: actually went out hunting for his Christmas presence. That's why

376
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:23,000
Speaker 2: some of the things he stole were fairly odd. Who

377
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,639
Speaker 2: steals a lamp? Who goes into a house, kills two

378
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,399
Speaker 2: people and steals a lamp? That makes no sense. He

379
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:32,040
Speaker 2: stole a VCR. He stole several other items, and he

380
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:35,280
Speaker 2: took them all to a friend's house to still. Here's

381
00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:37,000
Speaker 2: got some Christmas present? I need to stash here for

382
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:37,600
Speaker 2: a little while.

383
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:43,800
Speaker 1: The conflating of the joy of Christmas with multiple homicide

384
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:47,280
Speaker 1: and burglary is something that I never thought that I

385
00:22:47,280 --> 00:23:09,280
Speaker 1: would have a discussion about. So you've rained down holy

386
00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:13,399
Speaker 1: hell on the home of these two innocent people. They're

387
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:17,240
Speaker 1: just in this place that obviously they found joy in.

388
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,760
Speaker 1: They've traveled down from the North, the cold North, at

389
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:24,800
Speaker 1: this particular time of the year. Remember it's December nineteen

390
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:28,399
Speaker 1: eighty nine, they've left their New Jersey home to come

391
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:31,480
Speaker 1: and fly south for the winter, and there they are

392
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:35,919
Speaker 1: and their life ends in this little home. Apparently that

393
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:40,120
Speaker 1: wasn't the end of this night of terror that Gaskins

394
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:43,840
Speaker 1: decides to perpetrate on this local community.

395
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:47,240
Speaker 2: Now, to give it a very quick overview, we mentioned

396
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:51,960
Speaker 2: Gaskin burglarizes the home. Joe after the kill shot on

397
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:55,120
Speaker 2: mister and Missus Strumfels, shooting them both in the head.

398
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:59,880
Speaker 2: He covered their bodies with blankets and then burglarized the house,

399
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:04,119
Speaker 2: making lamps, VCR's cash, jewelry, things like that. I don't

400
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:07,160
Speaker 2: know what goes on in a person's mind or their physiology.

401
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:10,879
Speaker 2: I would imagine you've got a little adrenaline rush going on.

402
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 2: There's going to have to be something along those lines

403
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:16,360
Speaker 2: to push you to the next part of the adventure,

404
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:20,880
Speaker 2: which is a couple hours later. Gaskins, again just arbitrarily

405
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,400
Speaker 2: picking a place, drives up to the home of Joseph

406
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:29,399
Speaker 2: and Mary Rector and he finds them in the first murder,

407
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 2: we talked about how he got them in the living room.

408
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:35,240
Speaker 2: He was able to goes around the house several times

409
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:37,880
Speaker 2: to make sure he knows exactly where they are, and

410
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:40,800
Speaker 2: he does the same thing here at the home of

411
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,879
Speaker 2: Joseph and Mary Rector. He sneaks up there in his

412
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 2: all black ninja outfit with his twenty two rifle. He

413
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,680
Speaker 2: walks around the house and he notices that they are

414
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 2: in the den slash living room. So what he does

415
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:58,440
Speaker 2: this time is he cuts the phone line, and as

416
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:02,359
Speaker 2: he's getting ready to go up and do his dirty work,

417
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 2: the Rectors decided to sign for bed, So he cuts

418
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:07,640
Speaker 2: the phone line. They turn off the lights and head

419
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 2: to the bedroom. Now this was not the plan. You know,

420
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 2: I mentioned earlier that he didn't want to go in

421
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 2: and sneak in the middle of the night and shoot

422
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 2: people in their bed. There had to be some terror here.

423
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 2: He wanted them to know that he was going to

424
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 2: kill them and rob them. He wanted them to know that. Otherwise,

425
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 2: wouldn't it make sense to sneak into a house, catch

426
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 2: people unawares, do your business, and leave. So what he does.

427
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 2: They've turned the lights off, they've gone to bed, so

428
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 2: he starts throwing logs rocks at the side of the

429
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 2: house on the roof, trying to wake them up. After

430
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:41,399
Speaker 2: a couple of times of doing this, Finally, Joseph Rector, honey,

431
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 2: I got this. He gets up to go and see

432
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 2: what's going on, and it's when he gets back in

433
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 2: the den that's when Gaskins starts shooting again. That's when

434
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 2: he actually shoots from the outside. He shoots directors. But

435
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:00,879
Speaker 2: in this particular case, mister and missus gascon. Yeah, they

436
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 2: were scared, they were shocked, but they managed to escape.

437
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 2: They got out of the house, they got in the car,

438
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:09,920
Speaker 2: and Lewis Gaskin's while they're taking off down the road

439
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 2: in their car, he's shooting at them. He's shooting at

440
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,119
Speaker 2: their car. They go to the hospital. But you know what,

441
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:19,680
Speaker 2: bless their hearts, Joseph and Mary Rector, they were actually suspects.

442
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 2: They didn't make any sense. Their story didn't make sense

443
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:23,160
Speaker 2: to the local police.

444
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 1: You hear a story like this, where can you imagine

445
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,159
Speaker 1: you're sitting there and you're talking to the police and

446
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 1: you're telling on.

447
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 2: Ninja guys, somebody dressed all in black in the middle

448
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:31,680
Speaker 2: of the night.

449
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he's throwing items at our house and we

450
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,680
Speaker 1: heard these noises. I get up and of course, speaking

451
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 1: for mister Rector here, and he gets shot. He shot

452
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 1: one time. Now, how in the world they were able

453
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 1: to escape that home, I have no idea. And they

454
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 1: were able to get to their car and get on

455
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 1: the road. And as in this you talk about being embolden,

456
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,160
Speaker 1: can you, And it's like something out of some crazy

457
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 1: Hollywood trope. He steps out into the road and begins

458
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 1: firing at their car as they're driving away. I can

459
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:07,160
Speaker 1: only imagine if you're this man and woman the Rectors,

460
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 1: and you're thinking, what in the world have we done?

461
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 1: You're thinking, who could I have harmed to this degree?

462
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 1: Where my car is now, I've been struck by a bullet.

463
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 1: I'm in fear that my life is at its end.

464
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 1: My wife is here in the vehicle with me. We're

465
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 1: heading out, maybe she's driving. We're trying to make it

466
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 1: to a point of safety. And then they're saying that

467
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,439
Speaker 1: in some way we're involved in this. I don't know

468
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 1: in recent memory if I remember hearing someone being drawn out.

469
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 1: And that's the really kind of dark part of this.

470
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 1: A while back you mentioned the word hunting. You're literally

471
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 1: drawing your prey out so that you can essentially bag them.

472
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,919
Speaker 1: Was it all about taking from these people or was

473
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,119
Speaker 1: it taking their lives? Is that what you're about, because

474
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,639
Speaker 1: it kind of sounds that way to me. It sounds

475
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 1: as though that, yeah, you're going to take these worthless

476
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,919
Speaker 1: trees trinkets from the home, but you were more about

477
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,359
Speaker 1: trying to hunt them and kill them. And I really

478
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 1: wonder what the motivation behind that was. And it's quite

479
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 1: striking to me. He had an awareness. I think he

480
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,120
Speaker 1: had an awareness that he had done wrong. You'd mentioned

481
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 1: going back to Stormfells. He covered their bodies with blankets.

482
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 1: We talk about face covering and depth investigation, and that

483
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:29,880
Speaker 1: sometimes gives us one of two answers here when we're

484
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 1: looking at trying to understand who may have done this.

485
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 1: First off, it gives you an idea that they may

486
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 1: have been known by the perpetrator, or the perpetrator has

487
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 1: an awareness of their guilt because they're shame involved in it,

488
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 1: and so they're going to cover the bodies because they

489
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 1: know what they've done. I mean, this is you don't

490
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 1: get to use this term very often anymore, but this

491
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 1: is dastardly what has taken place, and their lives are

492
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 1: at an end, just laying there on the floor in

493
00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 1: that home.

494
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 2: Back to the storm Fells, when mister Sternfelt is shot,

495
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 2: it says, in the first time, the shot in the chest,

496
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 2: he comes up out of the chair. He gets shot

497
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 2: a second time and that drops him back down. But

498
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 2: somehow he is able. I don't know how, And that's

499
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 2: why I wanted to ask you, if you're shot twice

500
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 2: by a twenty two, what is allowing him? I mean,

501
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,080
Speaker 2: the guy shot in the chest, at least we know

502
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 2: that what kind of wound is he going to have?

503
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 2: What's going on inside his body with that twenty two shot,

504
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 2: that still allows him to get back up and to

505
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 2: try to get to his wife.

506
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 1: All of this is going to be depended upon placement

507
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 1: of the shot, the location anatomically obviously, if an individual,

508
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:43,959
Speaker 1: let's just say you're shot in the torso, if you're

509
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 1: hitting the heart, it's going to bring your life to

510
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 1: an end pretty quickly. But again, like Georgette Sternfell, she's

511
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 1: shot in the long dave. That is a languischine way

512
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 1: to die. To be gut shot or shot in the lung,

513
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 1: you're not to die immediately, so you're still struggling, You're

514
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 1: still able to uptake oxygen at that point in time,

515
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 1: and there's evidence of that with missus Sternfeld, because you know,

516
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 1: she's bleeding out, wheezing, you know, in the hallway, she

517
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 1: still had life in her And to that point with

518
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 1: her husband Robert, you're thinking, well, yeah, he was shot

519
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 1: in the chest, but was it a lung strike with him?

520
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 1: You can be shot initially and it not strike any

521
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 1: major organs. That does happen in fact, or if it

522
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 1: strikes an organ it might not be as catastrophic as

523
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 1: other gunshot wounds might be. Now he shot twice, we know,

524
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 1: and then he is executed. Now and when I say executed,

525
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 1: that's a term that we kind of throw around quite

526
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 1: a bit relative to folks will say an execution style shooting.

527
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 1: And what does that mean. Well, traditionally, what that means

528
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 1: is that you're going to walk up behind somebody and

529
00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 1: shoot them in the back of their head with you

530
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 1: and a doe at you universal you being the perpetrator

531
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 1: shooting them in the head. And that's quite fascinating. But

532
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 1: you know, all through this drama that night, that dark,

533
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 1: cold night, you're thinking about his preparation. You've got a

534
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 1: guy that's dressed all in black. He's trying to, for

535
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 1: whatever reason, blend into the night he shows up with

536
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 1: a weapon in hand, now certainly an interesting weapon, to

537
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 1: say the very least to commit such crime. A twenty

538
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 1: two caliber rifle. You don't hear that very often. And

539
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 1: he is standing outside of the house. He's not certainly

540
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 1: man enough to break into the house and go toe

541
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 1: to toe with an older couple. He doesn't even have

542
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:47,719
Speaker 1: that kind of intestinal fortitude. He stands outside the house

543
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 1: and fires through glass and shoots them. They were innocent

544
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:56,719
Speaker 1: victims sitting there in their chair, I mean, just completely

545
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 1: unaware that their life was about to end, and the

546
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 1: same way with the rectors. To a lesser degree. They survived.

547
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 1: But you feel the safest at night, don't you, Dave,

548
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 1: When you all snuggle down in your bed, you've turned

549
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 1: the lights out, you're getting ready to close your eyes,

550
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 1: maybe to get some sleep, and then all of a

551
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 1: sudden you're hearing something raining down on your house or

552
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 1: glass is breaking out. And how evil do you have

553
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,120
Speaker 1: to be in order to draw somebody out, probably in

554
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 1: their pajamas, and then shoot them down. And you're in

555
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 1: a position of cover where you're going to do this.

556
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 1: It's not like you're going to head with somebody that's

557
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 1: armed and you're firing at them like this, and that's

558
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 1: what makes this so very ominous. I think, you know,

559
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 1: you kind of dig through this and you think about, well,

560
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 1: what was this, Why would you be motivated at this

561
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 1: point in time to do it. Gaskin's made an interesting quote, Dave,

562
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 1: and this is him saying this. He admitted this to

563
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 1: the police when they questioned him, and he stated that

564
00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 1: the night that he committed the heinous acts, that, in fact,

565
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 1: and I'm paraphrasing, that the devil had more of him

566
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:10,720
Speaker 1: that night than God did. And that's certainly an interesting

567
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 1: point because this was in fact pure evil. On April

568
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 1: the twelfth, twenty twenty three, Lewis Bernard Gaskin, otherwise known

569
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 1: as the Ninja Killer, was pronounced dead at Florida State

570
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 1: Penitentiary at six fifteen pm after dying from lethal injection.

571
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body backs