1 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:12,920 Speaker 1: From Mediators World News Headquarters and Bozeman, Montana. 2 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:16,760 Speaker 2: This is Cal's We Can Review with Ryan cal Callahan. 3 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:23,320 Speaker 3: Now here's Cal. All right, everybody, this week's special drop 4 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 3: super remote. We got three people in three different locations 5 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:31,159 Speaker 3: and probably three different recording channels. We don't like to 6 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 3: do anything easy or consistent here on the weekend review, 7 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 3: so thanks for coming along, all right, everybody. This week 8 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 3: you are going to learn what it takes to create 9 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 3: change in your state fishing game regulations. A lot of 10 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:49,840 Speaker 3: people right in and say, boy, I don't like this. 11 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 3: What do you think of this? I'd like this change, 12 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 3: Something's got to happen. Our guest today is Tyler Winter, 13 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 3: who just like you, thought that and then went out 14 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 3: there and made it happen. So listen to Tyler's story. 15 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:06,559 Speaker 3: We're going to get into it in just a minute, 16 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 3: and you're going to know what it takes to get 17 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 3: out there and change your state regulations and more. We 18 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:21,959 Speaker 3: have an old guest if you are familiar with the 19 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 3: Meat Eater show, Doss Boat, where we took an old 20 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 3: Kredi boat and we fixed it up along the way 21 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 3: and traveled all over the US and explored different fisheries 22 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 3: with different people. Tyler was a host, a co host 23 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 3: of ours on Doss Boat where we targeted the big 24 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 3: mouth buffalo. And the reason that we were targeting big 25 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 3: mouth buffalo is because it's this amazing fish. It made 26 00:01:56,800 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 3: headlines because it's our oldest known fish as in like 27 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 3: the longest lived individuals that we have on record, and 28 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 3: at the same time their population was in decline. This 29 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:21,520 Speaker 3: study of the age of the fish and was this 30 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 3: kind of amazing, like, oh my gosh, moment of this 31 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 3: fish that's native to North America is in decline and 32 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 3: we only just now found out that it can live 33 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 3: for we don't know how long, but easily, like multiple 34 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 3: multiple individuals over the year age of eighty years old 35 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 3: that we've recorded. What else don't we know about this fish? 36 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 3: And by the way, it's also being shot, taught, and 37 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:03,119 Speaker 3: chucked up on the shore because people think it's a card. 38 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 3: That was the reason that we went and tracked down 39 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:13,080 Speaker 3: Tyler winter our guests this week and did that show 40 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 3: on dos Boat. And that's kind of where our story 41 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 3: begins with this junk fish idea, this rough fish idea, 42 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 3: and how they fit into our regulations and into just 43 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 3: our normal ethical fishing behavior, so with me as always 44 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 3: doing the heavy lifting. Jordan Sellers, Jordan, what do you 45 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 3: got going on this week? 46 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 1: What do I have going on this week? That's a 47 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 1: great question. 48 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 4: I just published, Well, we just published an article up 49 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 4: on the meeater dot com about if you can only 50 00:03:57,040 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 4: pick one big game caliber, pick this one. 51 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 1: I'm not going to tell you which one it is. 52 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: You have to go read it. 53 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 2: So yeah, that's kind of what I've been preoccupied with 54 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 2: this week, along with, of course, our great guest today, 55 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 2: Tyler Winter. 56 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to this conversation. 57 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 3: Darn right. And but I mean, let's not forget that 58 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:20,280 Speaker 3: you also are probably working your tail off because you're 59 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:23,160 Speaker 3: prepping for having a newborn baby in the house. 60 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:28,160 Speaker 2: Right, That's right, We're getting We're getting close. We're almost there. 61 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 2: We're all looking forward to it. 62 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 3: What are you almost there? 63 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 2: July eighth is the time of arrival, so we're getting close. 64 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:43,720 Speaker 2: My birthday is July seventh, actually, so I'm hoping for 65 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:45,040 Speaker 2: a day early. 66 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:54,719 Speaker 3: Nice. Nice Well, Tyler, where are you at? 67 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 5: Well, I'm at home right now. I'm the rain stopped, 68 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 5: and I'm it's probably gonna go fishing after we're done 69 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:06,039 Speaker 5: with this. So I was checked out one of my 70 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:08,479 Speaker 5: fishing spots yesterday. I got a silver red horse pretty quick. 71 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:13,480 Speaker 5: And that fish is actually gonna get donated to uh 72 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 5: Alec Lackman uh for for aging. So it didn't didn't 73 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 5: look so good when it came in. And so I 74 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 5: vouchered that one and filated up and uh put the 75 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 5: flas of my freezer and labeled the labeled the specimen 76 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 5: to send to Alex lab. 77 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 3: And and so you're you're still fishing the same beat 78 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 3: there in the heart of the cold, cold city, right many. 79 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 5: Yeah, well I am. I'm really lucky to have Mississippi 80 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:46,039 Speaker 5: basically like a block from my house. And so I've 81 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:49,600 Speaker 5: got a couple of fishing spots up and down, up 82 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 5: and down the Mississippi in my neighborhood and I can't quit. 83 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 3: And and what species are you targeting? Primarily? 84 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:02,600 Speaker 5: Well, I like to target all sorts of stuff. I 85 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:04,599 Speaker 5: actually just got back from the boundary waters where I 86 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 5: was targeting lake trout, and that's that's always fun. You know, 87 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:11,280 Speaker 5: you got to catch a few game fish a year, 88 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:14,839 Speaker 5: or people will think you can't. But then when I 89 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 5: get back from the boundary waters. Then it's usually buffalo season. 90 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 5: So the big mouth buffalo just moved into kind of 91 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 5: their summer pattern and I am stalking them and catching 92 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,599 Speaker 5: red horse in between. So silver red horse and short 93 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 5: head red horse in my section of the. 94 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:34,599 Speaker 3: River gorgeous fash right, oh yeah. 95 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:38,040 Speaker 5: And the big mouth the big mouth are are gorgeous too. 96 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 5: They're really variable in color. Uh so some of them 97 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 5: are kind of green, some of them are black, and 98 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 5: the red horse are are really pretty. The short head 99 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 5: red horse especially have really gold scales that are pretty 100 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 5: reflective with a bright red tail, so they're kind of 101 00:06:55,880 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 5: a metallic They flash in the water when they when 102 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 5: they turn and then they get that bright red tail. 103 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 5: They look kind of like a rocket going off. 104 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:07,359 Speaker 3: And and it's safe to say, like you have an 105 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 3: appreciation for these fish, correct. 106 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 5: Oh yeah, I mean the I I grew up in 107 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 5: a in a hunting family, and uh was you know, 108 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 5: taught you know, your basic hunting ethics to you know, 109 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 5: identify your target and uh take what you can take, 110 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 5: what you can use, and use what you can take. 111 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 5: And I came to fishing really with no preconceptions, and 112 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 5: so I just wanted to catch the most and the 113 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 5: biggest and whatever. And I really liked the challenge of 114 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 5: new species. And you know that that journey is uh 115 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 5: continues onto onto today. But it's like I and now, 116 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 5: as people are doing more catch and release fishing, the 117 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 5: you know, the idea that you would care about the 118 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 5: bones on the inside of a fish is kind of 119 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 5: fading away and people are seeing these fish as opportunities. 120 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 3: And so we'll jump back to like when we wrapped 121 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 3: up that doss Boat episode and we had these great 122 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 3: conversations surrounding primarily the big mouth buffalo, though we did 123 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 3: feature a few other species, like like the red horse, 124 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 3: which is a beautiful native fish, and we were talking 125 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 3: about what you just said, like identification primarily, why why 126 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 3: are we lumping in a whole set of fish that 127 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:45,079 Speaker 3: that do get commonly labeled as junk fish. If you're 128 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 3: a little class here, you're calling them rough fish. In America, 129 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 3: we buy and larger looking at those fish as disposable 130 00:08:56,480 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 3: as something that gets in the way of game fish, 131 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 3: whereas in Europe, major major industry, major major culture to 132 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 3: go out and catch cart catch rough fish, and we 133 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:19,320 Speaker 3: just don't have that in America. But what what did 134 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 3: you do after after that episode ended and kind of 135 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 3: take us on the journey of bringing more awareness to 136 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 3: rough fish. 137 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 5: Yeah, so, I uh, this is my first being on 138 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 5: the Doss Boat Show. Was a gonna be my first 139 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 5: chance to like speak publicly about about this and about 140 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 5: you know why I like to target these fish, and 141 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 5: you know kind of how the deck is stacked against them, 142 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 5: you know, and that you're talking about that European versus 143 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 5: American perspective, and there's a great parallel between you know, 144 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 5: bison and the buffalo fish. Right, Like the early early 145 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 5: on settlers thought, you know, well we have to get 146 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 5: rid of bison so we can have cows, right, Like 147 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 5: we're going to replace, We're going to improve upon things, right, 148 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 5: and that has you know, was kind of the perspective 149 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 5: with a lot of these fish. It's like, well, let's 150 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:14,560 Speaker 5: get you know, let's get rid of these buffalo in 151 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 5: this lake so that we can have fasts. And that's 152 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 5: a false dichotomy. And so but when I was going 153 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:23,960 Speaker 5: to be on the show, I really wanted to make 154 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 5: sure I had all my facts straight. So I went 155 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 5: on a deep dive into the into the regulations and stuff, 156 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 5: and realized that a lot of the things that I 157 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 5: found pretty frustrating and distasteful, like the wanton waste of 158 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 5: fish that are one hundred years old or more, we're 159 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 5: technically already illegal, and that there were you know, I 160 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 5: had a lot of questions about why things were the 161 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 5: way they were, and so I thought that when I 162 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:52,440 Speaker 5: did the research, it would answer the questions, so that 163 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 5: like I could say clearly, you know what was going 164 00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 5: on here, and it just and it just created a 165 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 5: ton of more questions. And so that was really my 166 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 5: first you know time, like you know, emailing the DNR 167 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 5: and just being like, hey, I have a question about 168 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:15,320 Speaker 5: why you know it's legal to put fish native fish 169 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 5: in a compost pile. And I found out that if 170 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 5: you don't get an answer to your email, it's oftentimes 171 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:28,080 Speaker 5: because you asked a really good question. If you if 172 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 5: you ask a simple question or a dumb question, they 173 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 5: can pretty quickly answer you and tell you that you're wrong. 174 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:38,320 Speaker 5: When you ask a really good question, then there's a 175 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 5: long delay before you get an answer, And that, you know, 176 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 5: led me to realizing that there were some opportunities here 177 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 5: and conversing with people within the DNR, and then I 178 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:58,839 Speaker 5: also ended up joining Conservation organizations. The first one I 179 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:00,840 Speaker 5: think I joined was the ISAAC wall In League of America, 180 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 5: and they had a great perspective on it. They actually 181 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 5: saw the Doss boat show one of the people from 182 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 5: the local chapter and realized that we had filmed in 183 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 5: there in there kind of behind their chapter house, and 184 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:17,560 Speaker 5: they were like, Wow, this is a great issue. This 185 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:19,320 Speaker 5: is a great issue for us. It's happening like in 186 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 5: our backyard. And the you know, just to show you 187 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 5: how far we had to go. Right when when I 188 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:30,440 Speaker 5: joined that chapter, they had on their bylaws that one 189 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:35,680 Speaker 5: of the purposes of the chapter was to reduce rough fish. Uh. 190 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 5: You know, these by laws hadn't been updated since like 191 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 5: the seventies, right, and so this is like a pretty 192 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:47,440 Speaker 5: seemed to be a pretty common blind spot. That chapter 193 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 5: ended up passing a resolution to support, you know, encourage 194 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 5: the management of all native species for sustainability, and and 195 00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 5: then that went to the state and uh, the state 196 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 5: division passed it, and then that went to national and 197 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 5: on the one hundredth anniversary of the isac WAT and 198 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 5: League of America, they passed a resolution and national resolution 199 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 5: calling on all state agencies to manage all native fish, 200 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 5: you know, instead of lumping some of them off as 201 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 5: as rough fish, which I thought was that's a great arc. 202 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 5: So then over time realizing that you know, we had 203 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 5: we had something here, and but also realizing that the 204 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 5: state agency needed needed some public support, needed some a 205 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 5: good reason to take action. 206 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 3: Uh. 207 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 5: I think every manager and every everyone who works in 208 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 5: this field understands that there's limited resources and limited time, 209 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 5: and we kind of had to make this a priority 210 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 5: for the state, which I think they were kind of 211 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 5: waiting for. 212 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 3: I just want people to understand, like, it's a big 213 00:13:57,559 --> 00:14:03,080 Speaker 3: deal to get any conservation group to change by laws 214 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 3: like these long stances on something because they are miniature governments, 215 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 3: so they're they're comprised of boards, presidents, CEOs. So that's 216 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 3: a big win, especially something I mean, Isaac Walton League 217 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 3: is a very storied organization, right, They've been around for 218 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 3: a long time. 219 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 5: So. 220 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 3: Just doing something like that is where a lot of 221 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 3: people would stop. 222 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 5: So but at the beginning, yeah, so well yeah, so 223 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 5: you know, we we'd a little taste of success, and 224 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 5: we you know, in the process of continuous research and 225 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 5: conversations with you know, people within the d n R 226 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 5: and other conservation groups, I joined the Minister of Conservation Federation. 227 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 5: I joined back huntry Hunters and angler as I joined 228 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 5: Friends of Pool, who is a local one that I 229 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 5: really like, like and making a lot of friends and 230 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 5: connections and realizing that like this was a good opportunity 231 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 5: to make to bring this issue to people, and that 232 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 5: in every case when I would say, hey, we are 233 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 5: currently managing a one hundred year old native fish the 234 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 5: same as an invasive species, everyone was like, agast right, 235 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 5: They're like, that doesn't make any sense. I'm like, yeah, 236 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 5: that's unscientific. That's a violation of the North American model 237 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 5: of wildlife management, and it's it's like the lowest hanging 238 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 5: fruit in the conservation world in my opinion, to go 239 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 5: from unlimited limits to something to some protections like this 240 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 5: is this is an easy win. Should be an easy win. 241 00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 5: And then with the with the Isaac Walton League of America, 242 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 5: we identified some things we could ask the DNR for 243 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 5: in a formal way, and we wrote a petition for 244 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:12,640 Speaker 5: administrative rule making which required a formal response from the DNR, 245 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 5: and that well, and then about the same time, I 246 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 5: think it was about the same time, we also had 247 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 5: Minnesota's no junk fish bill we called it, which because 248 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 5: we had some high profile cases of somebody had speared 249 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 5: about ninety gar and put it on YouTube and there 250 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 5: was a lot of outrage around that. When it was 251 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 5: found out that the fish had been disposed of, I 252 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 5: was a little surprised that that was the thing that 253 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 5: got people's attention, because, you know, boatloads or dumpsters or 254 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 5: something like that hadn't previously. But they we had some 255 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 5: other things going on, like the they there was a 256 00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 5: legislative requirement for a limit on gar and they also 257 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:06,679 Speaker 5: reclassified a couple of species as game fish, and so 258 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 5: that had kind of started a conversation about, well, what's 259 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:11,919 Speaker 5: going to happen to the rest of the fish. And 260 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 5: so when we put our petition in, I think we 261 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:19,360 Speaker 5: kind of hit it right at the right time, and 262 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 5: the DNR looked over the petition and then like, you're 263 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 5: not wrong. But because of the intricacies in the way 264 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:35,679 Speaker 5: that statutes interact with administrative rules, which then are translated 265 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:39,639 Speaker 5: into the regulations book, they couldn't just change everything that 266 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 5: we had requested, which is one thing I did not 267 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 5: realize before I started getting into this, you know, problem 268 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 5: is the complexity of statutes and rules and then those 269 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 5: becoming regulations in plain language. So we they said, you know, 270 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:02,240 Speaker 5: we want work on this with you, and so we 271 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:05,920 Speaker 5: agreed to collaborate, and they formed a work group and 272 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 5: they locked us in a room with a bunch of 273 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 5: different people of different perspectives. And I really also want 274 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:16,119 Speaker 5: to say, you know, an organization like the Isaac Walton League, 275 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 5: because they are now one hundred and two years old, 276 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:22,440 Speaker 5: they have a lot of expertise, you know, and then 277 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:26,119 Speaker 5: they have some resources and stuff, and so you know, 278 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 5: that helped us do the petition and understand that process. 279 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:35,879 Speaker 5: And we went through the work group process and butted 280 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 5: heads with people, and then we also, because of the 281 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:43,880 Speaker 5: interest from the legislature, we had the No Junk Fish Bill, 282 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 5: required the dn R to write a report to outline 283 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:55,119 Speaker 5: how to change Minnesota's rough fish statue statutes, because it 284 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 5: turns out that law has been in place in Minnesota 285 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:04,200 Speaker 5: since that eighteen o seven and they've just been copying 286 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 5: forward the phrase rough fish over and over again until 287 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 5: it got into all sorts of places. So we had 288 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 5: what was it twenty two statutes or something like that, 289 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 5: but it was used like seventy times in statute and rule, 290 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 5: and in you know, all sorts of places and egg laws, 291 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 5: and then definitions of commercial fish and so on and 292 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 5: so forth, and just the very definition just used like 293 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 5: colloquial names. It just said buffalo. It's like there's three 294 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 5: species of buffalo, and then it exempted the species that 295 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 5: were listed as having a conservation designation. Well, it's like, 296 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:49,399 Speaker 5: you know, could you actually enforce that if somebody takes 297 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 5: a black buffalo, which is a threatened species in Minnesota? 298 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:55,880 Speaker 5: Can you enforce that if the REGs book says that 299 00:19:56,240 --> 00:20:00,400 Speaker 5: the limit for buffalo is unlimited? Finding out about those 300 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 5: sort of confusions and contradictions. Really, that's I made a 301 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:07,920 Speaker 5: lot of hay with that, right that you could kind 302 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:10,919 Speaker 5: of force people to reckon that we need to have 303 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 5: some consistent sort of terminology that's like enforceable, no good. 304 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:20,679 Speaker 3: Yeah, So in that example, right, you don't necessarily have 305 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 3: to say you have to agree with me m m 306 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:31,800 Speaker 3: that you like this fish or want my end result. 307 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 3: You just have to recognize that your regulations that your 308 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 3: officers have to enforce are overly broad m hm. Yep. 309 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:49,119 Speaker 5: And I would also say too, you know, the coming 310 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:54,359 Speaker 5: at this from a perspective of a rotten gun conservationist, 311 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 5: or as a person who who eats fish, who harvests 312 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 5: these fish, whatever I think did diffuse a lot of things. 313 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:06,439 Speaker 5: You know, nobody could could accuse me of trying to 314 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:08,200 Speaker 5: take things away from them when I have a fully 315 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 5: knife in my hand, you know, and it's like, no, 316 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:15,120 Speaker 5: these are you know. We did dost boat and we 317 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:17,439 Speaker 5: ate cleaned a bunch of redhorse and ate them and 318 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:23,480 Speaker 5: they were delicious. And I think the one way I 319 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 5: have a conversation with people is by talking about my 320 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:29,920 Speaker 5: hunting ethics, you know. And I said, this isn't new, 321 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:32,919 Speaker 5: These aren't new ideas. This is the same ethics I 322 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 5: apply when I hunt squirrels. If you bring your your 323 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:41,320 Speaker 5: squirrel hunting ethics to the to the river, you'll be fine. 324 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 5: But you don't. You don't go out hunting and shoot 325 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:49,400 Speaker 5: things that you can identify, right, You don't shoot something 326 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 5: you've never seen before. But that's a pretty common response 327 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:57,200 Speaker 5: with fish. Apparently, you know, more than a few fish 328 00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 5: get get killed because people haven't haven't seen them before, 329 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 5: and they assume that anything new must be invasive. Sure, 330 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 5: there's there's probably more rare fish in you know, in 331 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 5: your watershed than there are invasive you know, so I 332 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 5: think that those perspectives are changing. But that was an 333 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 5: easy way to have a conversation with people. Probably the 334 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 5: other hard, hard part we had, and this came up 335 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 5: in the work group, but it comes up a lot, 336 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 5: is the diversity we're talking about. These topics are a 337 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:33,199 Speaker 5: little simpler when you're dealing with one species or two interacting. 338 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:36,040 Speaker 5: You know, we're talking about twenty six species of fish 339 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 5: here in this Minnesota statue, you know that were in 340 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:44,160 Speaker 5: this category. And on top of needing to explain that 341 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:46,399 Speaker 5: all of these fish are native, but yes, some of 342 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 5: them are more common than others, but they none of 343 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 5: them should be have their habitat impaired or have you know, 344 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 5: their populations intentionally minimized or be devalued because they all 345 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,360 Speaker 5: play a role in the ecosystem. But then on top 346 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:08,680 Speaker 5: of that, you have a lot of variability in their populations, 347 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 5: and it wasn't uncommon for people to say, you know, oh, 348 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 5: though you think those are rare, come to and then 349 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:20,440 Speaker 5: it was always followed up by in the spring and 350 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 5: below a dam or a culvert. 351 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 3: Uh, It's like it's like, yeah, they're congregating for a purpose, 352 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:31,640 Speaker 3: and that purpose is. 353 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,680 Speaker 5: Yeah, you're trying to spawn and get to habitat and 354 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 5: you know they're concentrated for a time. But when you 355 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 5: have fish that migrate one hundred and fifty miles, yeah, yeah, 356 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,879 Speaker 5: you will have an abundance of them in the springtime 357 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:49,199 Speaker 5: because it's it's all the fish, you know, for one 358 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,680 Speaker 5: hundred miles. The big mouth buffalo in the Red River 359 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 5: Valley apparently average one hundred and fifty mile migration. But 360 00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:00,080 Speaker 5: if you even have a ten mile migration, yeah, you 361 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,359 Speaker 5: will see a school of fish. You're supposed to see 362 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 5: a school of fish. You're not supposed to see it 363 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 5: below a dam or a culvert. And then if you 364 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,919 Speaker 5: go above that dam, guess what there may be zero. 365 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:16,879 Speaker 3: Can you just give us an idea of like who's 366 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:22,679 Speaker 3: at this table, who's this diverse set of perspectives, Like 367 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:27,880 Speaker 3: who's represented when you're when you're talking these through Like, right, 368 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 3: who's at the table? 369 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:33,160 Speaker 5: Yeah? So, the the work group had people from Isaac 370 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 5: Watt League, Corey Geving who founded roughfish dot com. He's 371 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:42,240 Speaker 5: also on the Native Fish for Tomorrow board. We had 372 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:47,200 Speaker 5: the Nature Conservancy. They've been a great ally and champion 373 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 5: of this. Brad from the Minnesota Conservation Federation. We had 374 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 5: a couple of anglers who just brought their perspective. We 375 00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 5: had commercial fishermen, and we had two members from the 376 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 5: Land of Lakes Bowfishing Association and a bowfishing guide, and 377 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,639 Speaker 5: we all agree that, you know, these fish like they 378 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:11,200 Speaker 5: should their habitat should be protected, you know, culvert should 379 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,120 Speaker 5: be removed where possible, and that there was a lack 380 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:20,720 Speaker 5: of education that people didn't necessarily understand the diversity. The 381 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:24,120 Speaker 5: bow fishing guides they obviously saw it, and they they 382 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,120 Speaker 5: recognize that these fish sometimes get disparaged because they get 383 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:29,879 Speaker 5: confused with carb So those were things everybody could agree on. 384 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,160 Speaker 5: The things that we maybe disagreed on were like, are 385 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,200 Speaker 5: there an unlimited number of fish. 386 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 3: Right because people are seeing large concentrations that at certain 387 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,919 Speaker 3: times a year when maybe their preferred activity is is 388 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:51,720 Speaker 3: happening the most or some something along those lines. 389 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 5: Yeah, And those conversations happen all the time, you know, 390 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 5: just like on a riverbank or something, they're like, oh, 391 00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 5: you think suckers are rare, you come over here in 392 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,680 Speaker 5: the springtime and whatever, and I'm like, you know, which 393 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 5: also obscures the point or maybe changes the topic from 394 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:09,160 Speaker 5: the fact that these fit. We're trying to conserve these 395 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 5: fish and bring the North American model of wildlife management 396 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 5: before they're rare, because these fish are not going to 397 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:19,119 Speaker 5: get a hatchery, right, they're not going to get a 398 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:25,119 Speaker 5: big restoration plan or reintroduction, and they provide ecosystem services. 399 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 5: One of the you know, uh, there was a doss 400 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:32,440 Speaker 5: Boat episode about freshwater drum and yeah, they're not necessarily 401 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,920 Speaker 5: rare where they exist, but we also know they might 402 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 5: be missing from above sixty percent of dams, and they 403 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:44,440 Speaker 5: eat zebra muscles and they also host eleven species of 404 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 5: native muscles, and so you do need to have them 405 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:53,119 Speaker 5: around or you're going to lose those native muscles, you know. 406 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,399 Speaker 5: So it's like they're not necessarily going extinct. But like 407 00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,359 Speaker 5: also if they're missing from that much of their range, 408 00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:03,320 Speaker 5: we shouldn't continue to block them from you know, we 409 00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:05,480 Speaker 5: need to do something to help bring them back so 410 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 5: they can eat their zebra muscles and do what we 411 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 5: want them to do. 412 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, or make that regulation change that reduces the amount 413 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 3: of take in some of those areas right where they're 414 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,199 Speaker 3: they may be present, but they're not prolific. 415 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 5: Yeah, And I think too. You know, these uh, they 416 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:28,400 Speaker 5: we're getting ahead of ourselves. But the the coming regulations, 417 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 5: which they're not here yet, but the in the reclassification, 418 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 5: it changes the way we manage these fish and the 419 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,880 Speaker 5: perspectives we're going to have on them, because how are 420 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:44,080 Speaker 5: you going to get people motivated to allow fish passage 421 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 5: to dam if they think those fish are invasive? Right, 422 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,679 Speaker 5: Like we have to you know, give them some of 423 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:54,400 Speaker 5: the same habitat protections and list them separate from invasive 424 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:58,959 Speaker 5: species so that we can do habitat work, right, and 425 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 5: so that you know, the fish regulations work in part 426 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:07,199 Speaker 5: by conveying value. We understand that a muskie with a 427 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,919 Speaker 5: limit of one is more valuable than perch with a 428 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:12,440 Speaker 5: limit of twenty. 429 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 3: Five, right. And I do want to say, you know, 430 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 3: like the observation of large numbers of animals then gets 431 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:28,320 Speaker 3: extrapolated out to like, well, they're obviously like this everywhere. 432 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,880 Speaker 3: That's not just a fish thing, Jordan. I'm sure you've 433 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:36,240 Speaker 3: got all sorts of circumstances in Texas where you get 434 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 3: permission to hunt hogs someplace and the ranch manager's like, 435 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,280 Speaker 3: there are pigs everywhere, and then you're like, man, I 436 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 3: didn't see a pin, right, it happens. 437 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, so where I am, you can't. You can only 438 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 2: hunt does white tail does the first two weeks of 439 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 2: the season, And I, you know, just in my kind 440 00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 2: of conversations with landowners trying to get permission, some of 441 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 2: them say, we have way too many does you know? 442 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 2: I wish we could hunt them all year. And then 443 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 2: like a neighboring landowner will say, I don't know where 444 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 2: all the deer went, right, So that just these kind 445 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 2: of small perspectives on your property, aren't you know? You 446 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:23,400 Speaker 2: can't extrapolate necessarily to the larger region, right. 447 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:28,480 Speaker 3: It's the random sample observation of like, well, when I 448 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,400 Speaker 3: go out and sit on my porch and have my coffee, 449 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 3: there's a bunch of deer in my yard. Yeah, obviously 450 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 3: there's a bunch everywhere. And then so Tyler to get 451 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:47,600 Speaker 3: us back on track. Here, you've gone from a conservation 452 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 3: group that deals with fish to state regulations and where 453 00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:56,440 Speaker 3: do you go? 454 00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 5: So the the last fall, the DNR authored a report 455 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 5: that brought together the input from the work group and 456 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 5: was required by last year's No Junk Fish Bill, which 457 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:15,720 Speaker 5: I ended up which I testified for in the House 458 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:22,960 Speaker 5: and Senate. And then this year there was a minute 459 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:26,640 Speaker 5: of the first comprehensive Native fish conservation bill in the 460 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 5: country where we were able to because we had the 461 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:34,840 Speaker 5: support of the of the DNR and because we had 462 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:40,960 Speaker 5: support from representatives and senators and conservation groups, we were 463 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 5: able to go in and amend it was like forty 464 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 5: two statutes. It ended up being there, I think is 465 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 5: forty two sections in this bill. It's huge. That reverses 466 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:58,240 Speaker 5: all of the you know, terrible legislation from the last 467 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 5: one hundred and seventeen years that use that phrase rough fish, 468 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 5: and it included, you know, things like you were able 469 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:09,320 Speaker 5: to make a rough fish barrier in a stream so 470 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 5: that you could you could block you know, fish from 471 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 5: getting upstream. But we were literally managing our buffalo, our 472 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 5: red horse, our drum, all these native fish. We were 473 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,480 Speaker 5: managing them like an invasive species. So now we can 474 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:26,160 Speaker 5: still make a cart barrier, but it's a cart barrier 475 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:30,960 Speaker 5: for invasive species, and you know that provides habitat protections. 476 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 5: Then for native fish, we got restitution values. Now that 477 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:43,240 Speaker 5: was one that had been missing. Uh, these fish didn't 478 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:46,560 Speaker 5: have a restitution value, which was a requirement if they 479 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:50,520 Speaker 5: were going to enforce a wildlife crime, so we've got 480 00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:55,520 Speaker 5: restitution values. You know, a prohibition on transporting more than 481 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,600 Speaker 5: one limit that you still only apply to game fish 482 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 5: makes it pretty hard to enforce a limit if you 483 00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:06,400 Speaker 5: can't stop someone from transporting more than a limit. All 484 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 5: sorts of those sort of things that were support actually 485 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:16,320 Speaker 5: the the regulations right that make those enforceable. So there 486 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 5: it turned into a big thing. And I got to 487 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:24,400 Speaker 5: testify for this bill four times, because why do it twice? 488 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:28,200 Speaker 5: It came up twice in the House and in the Senate, 489 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 5: and we went through Environment Committee in the House and 490 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 5: Senate twice with no opposition. And that that was quite 491 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 5: the experience of trying to learn how things go through 492 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:44,920 Speaker 5: committees and trying to get your comments in on time 493 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,200 Speaker 5: and and those sort of staying on top of that 494 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:48,720 Speaker 5: was like a full time job for a while. 495 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:53,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, and you have that background though, right, you're you're 496 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:57,880 Speaker 3: a trained lawyer or political science major. 497 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 5: Correct, you know, in another lifetime, maybe I was maybe that, 498 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:11,520 Speaker 5: maybe that's it, But honestly I leaned on the partners 499 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,880 Speaker 5: from the Isaac Walton League and the Nature Conservancy, which 500 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 5: we're definitely better at that than than I was. You know, 501 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 5: if if we're want to get started on something like this, 502 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,400 Speaker 5: try to try to meet a government relations person. They're 503 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 5: really helpful. 504 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:31,480 Speaker 3: But nobody said you can't do this because you aren't 505 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 3: experienced in the way government works, right. 506 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,160 Speaker 5: No. In fact, you know I was. I think the 507 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,520 Speaker 5: first time I went to testify at a at a 508 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 5: House House committee hearing, I kept waiting for like, uh, 509 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 5: a security person or some check in, some registration, and 510 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,120 Speaker 5: I just like ended up walking into the chamber and 511 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,640 Speaker 5: was like, oh, this is this is just open, like 512 00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:58,000 Speaker 5: you just the public, you know, like most of the 513 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:02,840 Speaker 5: seats are empty. You can just show up, like, you know, 514 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 5: like I think in every hearing I've been too, they've 515 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:07,680 Speaker 5: had like, you know, a moment where they're like, does 516 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:11,000 Speaker 5: anyone else want to testify? Nobody ever says yet, you know, 517 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:15,920 Speaker 5: nobody ever stands up, but they're you know, I'm mostly 518 00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:20,759 Speaker 5: familiar with with Minnesota, but I'm sure every every legislature 519 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:24,239 Speaker 5: and committees have email sign ups with alerts. Those are 520 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:30,880 Speaker 5: invaluable signing up to an environment committee or you know, 521 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,440 Speaker 5: whatever committee is that is going to tackle an issue 522 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 5: that you're concerned about. Signing up to their email alerts 523 00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:39,000 Speaker 5: that alert you when they're going to have a hearing 524 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,440 Speaker 5: and what's going to be on the docket is free 525 00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:45,680 Speaker 5: and easy and invaluable. I definitely ran across things that 526 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,680 Speaker 5: weren't fish related this year that I was concerned about, 527 00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:52,200 Speaker 5: you know, or had an interest in, and then you know, 528 00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:55,719 Speaker 5: they probably have directions on how to submit comments. And 529 00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:58,359 Speaker 5: there was a huge we had a huge win this year, 530 00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:02,640 Speaker 5: and you know, I was kind of waiting for somebody 531 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:07,160 Speaker 5: to say, you're going to up end and restructure our 532 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,800 Speaker 5: fishing regulations that we've known for over one hundred years. 533 00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:13,560 Speaker 5: When you create this new category of fish that doesn't 534 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,920 Speaker 5: get treated like an invasive species. It was just waiting 535 00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:20,360 Speaker 5: for that moment. And the Senate author held up a 536 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,359 Speaker 5: stack of paper he printed off, and he was like, 537 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:27,560 Speaker 5: we had an outpouring of public support in favor of 538 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:32,480 Speaker 5: this bill, and there was twelve. We had twelve people, 539 00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:36,960 Speaker 5: you know, or organizations had submitted submitted written testimony. 540 00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 3: That's the out pouring. 541 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean there were other there were 542 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:44,719 Speaker 5: other bills, you know. I think that maybe the same 543 00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:48,719 Speaker 5: hearing that had like nine that were dealing with regulations 544 00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:53,080 Speaker 5: for feed lots, and I was shocked. I mean, but 545 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:57,800 Speaker 5: that's what it took. And you know, because I made 546 00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:01,560 Speaker 5: friends and made connections and and put myself out there 547 00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:05,880 Speaker 5: to drum up public support. And you know, a really 548 00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:09,280 Speaker 5: simple thing was making a template for people to submit 549 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,240 Speaker 5: their written testimony with the the header that they needed, 550 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:15,640 Speaker 5: you know, for the with the chairman's name and address 551 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:20,680 Speaker 5: and saying like and type in something a paragraph and 552 00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:24,480 Speaker 5: send it to this you know, committee administrator, you know, 553 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:27,520 Speaker 5: by Wednesday at five o'clock. And that made it so 554 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,640 Speaker 5: much easier for people. And we got, you know, that 555 00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:33,520 Speaker 5: enough testimony that the author can say, we have an 556 00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:34,560 Speaker 5: outpouring of support. 557 00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:40,319 Speaker 3: That's amazing. And so why, I'm sorry, this just wasn't 558 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:44,200 Speaker 3: clear to me. Why wasn't this just a done deal 559 00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:50,000 Speaker 3: at the Department of Wildlife Resources regulation level? Why did 560 00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:52,040 Speaker 3: you have to go to the Senate and the House 561 00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:53,800 Speaker 3: and pass an actual bill. 562 00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:58,960 Speaker 5: That's an excellent question. I'm glad you asked. So the 563 00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:02,440 Speaker 5: there was a statue that defined rough fish in Minnesota 564 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:08,759 Speaker 5: as carp buffalo gar bofen like literally just like that 565 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:14,480 Speaker 5: kind of language, gold eye, and so the DNR couldn't 566 00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:21,239 Speaker 5: change the regulatory definition to exclude Karp without changing the statute. 567 00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:25,920 Speaker 3: Got it. Got it. So they're like, yeah, love the 568 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:29,839 Speaker 3: track that you're on. We recognize that here's this next 569 00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:34,440 Speaker 3: little roadblock that, by the way, is out of our hands. 570 00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:35,080 Speaker 5: Mm hmm. 571 00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:39,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, didn't stop. That's amazing. 572 00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:43,040 Speaker 5: Yeah, and that's you know, that's I think we were 573 00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:46,840 Speaker 5: the What I realized is that if you can get 574 00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:52,120 Speaker 5: you know, the conservation groups and the you know, managers 575 00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:56,239 Speaker 5: and uh a representative and a senator to all agree, 576 00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:00,520 Speaker 5: then you can move forward pretty quickly. I kind of 577 00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:04,520 Speaker 5: figure that from when I started on this path before 578 00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:08,040 Speaker 5: we filmed Doss Boat, you know, July of twenty twenty, 579 00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:10,640 Speaker 5: you know, till now, it's been about four years of 580 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:15,520 Speaker 5: making this my hobby. But that, you know, after we 581 00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:19,640 Speaker 5: passed the first comprehensive native fish conservation bill in the country, 582 00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:22,120 Speaker 5: people kept coming up to me and slapping me on 583 00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:24,440 Speaker 5: the shoulder and being like that was amazing. That was 584 00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:29,719 Speaker 5: so fast. Yeah, like yeah, you know, but we kept 585 00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:32,719 Speaker 5: having successes along the way of you know that we 586 00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 5: knew we were on the right track. 587 00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:35,160 Speaker 4: Yeah. 588 00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:38,919 Speaker 3: I've been following this, you know, from the jump, and 589 00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:43,400 Speaker 3: I just love it. A for the initiative take and 590 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:50,240 Speaker 3: be the timeline is extraordinarily tight from inception to action 591 00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:59,160 Speaker 3: and more or less completion, right, And it is truly 592 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:02,480 Speaker 3: it's one of these things that is another kind of 593 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:08,719 Speaker 3: like feather in the conservation hunter angler cap where it 594 00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:14,680 Speaker 3: does show that adherence to the North American model, the 595 00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:20,800 Speaker 3: scientific management, the idea right that that hunters and anglers 596 00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:28,240 Speaker 3: are a part of management. And we know that, Yeah, 597 00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:30,319 Speaker 3: in order to be a part of management, you have 598 00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:35,120 Speaker 3: to identify things while they're still swimming, not when they're 599 00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:39,560 Speaker 3: sitting up on the beach, covered and sand and bloated 600 00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:40,120 Speaker 3: by the sun. 601 00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:44,520 Speaker 5: Right, right, I mean, and that's the you know, aligning 602 00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,000 Speaker 5: with the North American models of wildlife management is just 603 00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:52,120 Speaker 5: common sense. It is, you know, the most successful conservation 604 00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:57,360 Speaker 5: model in the world. And I think what really spurred 605 00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:59,480 Speaker 5: on and like gave us, you know, a lot of 606 00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,560 Speaker 5: traction was the fact that these fish had often been 607 00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:06,600 Speaker 5: exempted from that. You know. You can look at point 608 00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:10,120 Speaker 5: one on the model of it says wildlife resources are 609 00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:14,200 Speaker 5: conserved and held in trust for all citizens. I like 610 00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:17,480 Speaker 5: to put the emphasis on held because that is the 611 00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:23,000 Speaker 5: opposite of extirpation, that's the opposite of you know, poisoning 612 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:24,880 Speaker 5: out a lake and putting up a barrier and allowing 613 00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:28,920 Speaker 5: unlimited harvest. You're not really holding in trust if you're 614 00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:30,040 Speaker 5: trying to eliminate something. 615 00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:34,560 Speaker 3: A big reason that you're here, right, is because people 616 00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:38,760 Speaker 3: need to understand that instead of sitting back and bitching 617 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:43,319 Speaker 3: and moaning about things, you can start a movement like 618 00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:47,560 Speaker 3: this that results in actual change. You have change at 619 00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:52,759 Speaker 3: the conservation level, you have change conservation group level, you 620 00:40:52,840 --> 00:41:00,120 Speaker 3: have change at the state regulatory level with the state DNR, 621 00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:06,760 Speaker 3: and you have change at the actual state level that 622 00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:11,520 Speaker 3: could very well have ripples across the entire country. Right, 623 00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:15,800 Speaker 3: It's an example out there that is, as you've said, 624 00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:21,760 Speaker 3: first of its kind, yep. Because they're not the quote 625 00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:26,080 Speaker 3: unquote sexy game fish. It's taken us a long time 626 00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:30,160 Speaker 3: to be like, oh, this is the role that these 627 00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:35,239 Speaker 3: rough fish served in the ecosystem. This is how we 628 00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:38,680 Speaker 3: could have set ourselves back when we look at I 629 00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:44,040 Speaker 3: think your mustard, Yeah, your muscle example is perfect. Right, Like, 630 00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:48,319 Speaker 3: if you look at the ESA Endangered Species Act on 631 00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:55,240 Speaker 3: that list, America's most endangered things are our fresh water muscles. 632 00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:58,440 Speaker 3: And they do what muscles do. They clean the water. 633 00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:03,200 Speaker 3: That's an important role and that's not a role that's 634 00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:04,760 Speaker 3: gonna go away, right. 635 00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:07,320 Speaker 5: And every one of them starts off on a fish's gills. 636 00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,279 Speaker 5: And here in Minnesota, we actually have a population of 637 00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:16,200 Speaker 5: a federally endangered muscle of a spectacle case. And there's 638 00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:19,239 Speaker 5: like three populations of spectacle case in the country. We 639 00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:21,839 Speaker 5: have one of them. We share it with Wisconsin, and 640 00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:24,800 Speaker 5: we are currently you know, we've been allowing unlimited harvest 641 00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:29,880 Speaker 5: of a fish of its only two hosts. And so 642 00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,360 Speaker 5: it's like, well, I you know, I don't think we 643 00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:36,120 Speaker 5: need to necessarily close down the Moonai and gold Eye 644 00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:42,120 Speaker 5: fishery completely, but maybe not unlimited, right. 645 00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:44,280 Speaker 3: Sure, Yeah, there's the middle ground there, right. 646 00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:46,680 Speaker 5: Yeah, And like the I would also say too, one 647 00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:48,840 Speaker 5: of the things that I'm proud of doing is threading 648 00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:52,960 Speaker 5: this needle and like this this statute change. And what 649 00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:56,360 Speaker 5: we have always wanted to do is to be for 650 00:42:56,560 --> 00:43:02,600 Speaker 5: the fish, right and give them value, convey their value. 651 00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:05,680 Speaker 5: But we don't feel that we need to take things 652 00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:08,480 Speaker 5: away from people. I don't think having a daily or 653 00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:12,120 Speaker 5: a possession limit is necessarily a huge uh, Like that's 654 00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:15,360 Speaker 5: not a loss for for anglers or whatever. Right, we 655 00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:20,840 Speaker 5: can't eat you know, thirty buffalo anyway. The but you 656 00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:24,520 Speaker 5: know this isn't about a particular method of harvest or 657 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:27,960 Speaker 5: taking anything away from people. We are doing this as 658 00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:31,400 Speaker 5: as people who eat fish, and we're giving these protections 659 00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:35,319 Speaker 5: to the fish without closing seasons, clothing, closing methods of 660 00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:39,400 Speaker 5: take You know, we're not anti anything. Uh, you know, 661 00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:42,839 Speaker 5: we're well, I'm opposed to one waste, but you know 662 00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:44,920 Speaker 5: I'm for here for the fish. 663 00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:50,680 Speaker 3: And so if somebody has an issue, right, they got 664 00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:55,480 Speaker 3: to grite, they gotta grudge, you know, like in Idaho 665 00:43:55,600 --> 00:44:00,520 Speaker 3: for example, right, like you don't have to consume your 666 00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:05,480 Speaker 3: black bear meat, check your regulations. Most people think that 667 00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:09,399 Speaker 3: legally you have to. Most people don't even think that. 668 00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:11,759 Speaker 3: They just know that you shot a berry, you better 669 00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:16,919 Speaker 3: eat it. Yeah, but you know that's another issue that's 670 00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:19,720 Speaker 3: like buried in there. So if you have a gripe 671 00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:22,759 Speaker 3: with that, Tyler Winter is right now going to tell 672 00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:27,759 Speaker 3: you what you need to do to go out there 673 00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:32,120 Speaker 3: and make a change. What'd you learn, Tyler? What would 674 00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:32,760 Speaker 3: you tell people? 675 00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:39,640 Speaker 5: I would say, first off, start start emailing people and 676 00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:43,480 Speaker 5: ask questions. Ask questions that you know don't have a 677 00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:48,680 Speaker 5: good answer. And if you run up to a wall, 678 00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:52,200 Speaker 5: or if there's a barrier something, ask ask D and 679 00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:55,160 Speaker 5: R people and ask people what the problem, like, where 680 00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:57,880 Speaker 5: the barrier is, what's the problem, what's the sticking point? 681 00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:00,719 Speaker 5: And figure out if you can put in pressure on that, 682 00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:04,919 Speaker 5: if you can put any leverage on that. And call 683 00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:08,280 Speaker 5: people too, that's always a good technique. 684 00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:08,960 Speaker 2: Uh. 685 00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:14,120 Speaker 5: No, nobody necessarily wants an email out there that's going 686 00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:16,839 Speaker 5: to contradict their boss or something, right like, we don't 687 00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:21,439 Speaker 5: want that. Call people, ask them and be a real 688 00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:23,680 Speaker 5: be a real person, give them a little grace if 689 00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:27,000 Speaker 5: they you know, they're doing their job and they have 690 00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:29,600 Speaker 5: something that's an obstacle for them, see if you can 691 00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:34,480 Speaker 5: help them. You know, I would bet that the managers 692 00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:37,640 Speaker 5: in Idaho probably want those bears to get eaten. 693 00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:38,560 Speaker 3: Uh. 694 00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:42,960 Speaker 5: They're perfectly edible, and so they may be able to 695 00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:45,359 Speaker 5: point you in the right direction to where to get 696 00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:53,719 Speaker 5: started on fixing that. Join up your conservation organizations, small ones, 697 00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:57,439 Speaker 5: big ones, you know, join them up. You're gonna meet 698 00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:00,640 Speaker 5: great people. Uh. You may find out about issues that 699 00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:04,040 Speaker 5: you didn't know that you can help with. And if 700 00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:07,080 Speaker 5: you've got to, you've got a problem you want to solve. 701 00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:11,040 Speaker 5: They may be looking for they're looking for problems too, 702 00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:15,960 Speaker 5: so so join up, go to the pint nights. You know, 703 00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:22,439 Speaker 5: make a difference. Absolutely, start following the your legislation, find 704 00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:28,880 Speaker 5: the email lists and alerts, contact your representatives, you get involved, 705 00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:34,520 Speaker 5: and show up. That's been a huge, huge thing. I 706 00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:37,279 Speaker 5: have been shocked kind of how few people are showing up. 707 00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:41,080 Speaker 5: And if it's the wrong people that show up, then 708 00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:46,520 Speaker 5: we lose. And I guess lastly, I would say, you know, 709 00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:52,440 Speaker 5: do your best to maintain your integrity all the time 710 00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:56,080 Speaker 5: if you want something like this. You know, if you 711 00:46:56,200 --> 00:47:00,920 Speaker 5: want to get people to eat their black bears instead 712 00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:05,080 Speaker 5: of just taking the hide, you better be eating your 713 00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:09,920 Speaker 5: squirrels and your fish and everything else too, because that 714 00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:13,080 Speaker 5: that can really derail something if you if you don't 715 00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:14,880 Speaker 5: set a good example. 716 00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:17,880 Speaker 3: A little walk the walk and talk the talk, right. 717 00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:21,640 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean that's probably that's a much shorter way 718 00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:24,279 Speaker 5: of saying it. But yeah, if you walk the walk 719 00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:28,400 Speaker 5: and you talk the talk, and you show up, you 720 00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:29,320 Speaker 5: will make a difference. 721 00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:34,320 Speaker 3: Heck. Yeah. Well, Tyler, thank you so much for making 722 00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:37,920 Speaker 3: the time and joining us. Thank you really, thank you 723 00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:42,359 Speaker 3: for being such a good example of what we talked 724 00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:43,800 Speaker 3: about here A lot right. 725 00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:45,759 Speaker 5: Like I have to think I have to thank you though, 726 00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:49,640 Speaker 5: because you came here with with Don's boat and fish 727 00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:51,839 Speaker 5: for buffalo and red Horse for me, and that was 728 00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:56,480 Speaker 5: that was gave us some momentum improved. This was an 729 00:47:56,480 --> 00:48:00,640 Speaker 5: interesting story and that I think. I think that's a 730 00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:04,479 Speaker 5: great like arc as well. That you know it's started off. 731 00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:06,640 Speaker 5: It's like full circle. You know, we started off in 732 00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:09,600 Speaker 5: the river together and here we are four years later 733 00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:11,240 Speaker 5: talking about what happened. 734 00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:16,040 Speaker 3: That's cool, man, that is cool. Well where to next? 735 00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:20,440 Speaker 3: Are you just going to be a national rough fish 736 00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:22,880 Speaker 3: champion or what are you thinking? 737 00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:27,279 Speaker 5: Well, the we still have some work to do here 738 00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:30,279 Speaker 5: in Minnesota. The administrative rules have to be updated now 739 00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:34,399 Speaker 5: that we've solved all those outdated statutes, So there's still 740 00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:37,200 Speaker 5: going to be plenty of public comment periods and engagement 741 00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:39,760 Speaker 5: that I'm going to help spread the word on. And 742 00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:43,759 Speaker 5: I am also already being contacted from by people from 743 00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:47,920 Speaker 5: other states who have identified this exact same problem in 744 00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:51,399 Speaker 5: another state, and I'm hoping to help them as much 745 00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:55,920 Speaker 5: as possible. That's you know, we have Native Fisher Tomorrow 746 00:48:56,000 --> 00:49:01,080 Speaker 5: has members in Wisconsin, in Illinois or direct and I 747 00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:05,799 Speaker 5: have people from Iowa, who are asking me if we 748 00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:09,720 Speaker 5: can help there, because I think every state, maybe except 749 00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:14,239 Speaker 5: a Hawaii, has a category like this that is, you know, 750 00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:17,760 Speaker 5: intended to minimize the populations of a native fish instead 751 00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:20,280 Speaker 5: of conserving them for the public. 752 00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:25,960 Speaker 3: Trust cool man. Well, as you know, doors always open 753 00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:28,359 Speaker 3: over here at the Week in Review, man, So if 754 00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:30,319 Speaker 3: you want to get the word out, let us know. 755 00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:37,000 Speaker 3: I think if the next next time Tyler is duking 756 00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:42,319 Speaker 3: it out at the state level, I'm gonna make sure 757 00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:46,080 Speaker 3: to get your Instagram channel out to everybody. What is that? 758 00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:51,960 Speaker 5: By the way, I'm on Instagram at Buffalo Underscore Catcher and. 759 00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:56,400 Speaker 3: You can see kind of step by step what what 760 00:49:56,480 --> 00:49:59,920 Speaker 3: it takes to make some change out there in the 761 00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:04,399 Speaker 3: big old conservation world. So, Tyler, thank you very much. 762 00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:06,200 Speaker 3: I know we got a lot of thank yous going on, 763 00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:11,799 Speaker 3: but I really appreciate you coming on. And uh man, 764 00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:14,040 Speaker 3: you got a heck of a result for a hobby 765 00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:17,520 Speaker 3: for four years, buddy, it's been worth it. Good job, 766 00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:21,359 Speaker 3: all right, Big thanks to our guest Tyler Winter, and 767 00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:24,480 Speaker 3: big thanks to all of you for listening right in 768 00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:28,520 Speaker 3: to ask c A L. That's Askcal at tomeeteater dot 769 00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:30,680 Speaker 3: com and let us know what's going on in your 770 00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:33,919 Speaker 3: neck of the woods. You know we appreciate it. Thanks again, 771 00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:44,640 Speaker 3: and we'll talk to you next week.