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Speaker 1: The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely

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Speaker 1: those of the podcast author or individuals participating in the podcast,

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Speaker 1: and do not represent those of iHeartMedia, Tenderfoot TV, or

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Speaker 1: their employees. This podcast also contained subject matter which may

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Speaker 1: not be suitable for everyone. Listener discretion is advised.

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Speaker 2: It was a cold day on December thirteenth, nineteen ninety five.

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Speaker 2: Julie and Melissa had been missing for almost seven months.

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Speaker 2: Inspector Rene Micheaux of the Gendarmerie, along with two colleagues

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Speaker 2: and a locksmith, pulled up to de True's residence on

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Speaker 2: one twenty eight Rue de philipp Fil and Marcinelles in

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Speaker 2: the municipality of Charges. They had the house to themselves,

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Speaker 2: as Dedru was in jail for stealing a truck and

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Speaker 2: kidnapping his accomplices. The search was officially linked to the

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Speaker 2: car theft scheme and should have been carried out by

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Speaker 2: the municipal police, but the gendarmes. Michaud managed to unsurp

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Speaker 2: the warrant and carry out the search with his own

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Speaker 2: team of gendarmes. If you recall, the gendarmes were already

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Speaker 2: secretly surveilling d Tru's house, as he was their main

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Speaker 2: suspect in the disappearance of Julie LeJean and Melissa Rousso.

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Speaker 2: Michaud sent his colleagues upstairs to see what they con

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Speaker 2: find and headed down to the basement with the locksmith.

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Speaker 2: The team upstairs found several suspicious items, including chloroform sedatives,

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Speaker 2: vaginal ointment video cassettes, and a speculum used by gynecologists

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Speaker 2: for vaginal examinations. While searching the basement, the locksmith thought

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Speaker 2: that he'd heard voices of che children, and he said

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Speaker 2: to Michaud, listen, I hear voices quick. Michaud also heard

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Speaker 2: what he would later call quote whispers and abruptly shouted

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Speaker 2: to his colleagues upstairs to shut up. After Michau yelled

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Speaker 2: shut up to quiet his colleagues, the voices stopped. After

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Speaker 2: a period of silence, Michaud said that it must have

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Speaker 2: been voices playing in the street outside or something. When

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Speaker 2: the locksmith insisted about what he'd heard, Michaud turned to

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Speaker 2: him and said, who's the cop here? You or me

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Speaker 2: sec rom After that, the search was over and the

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Speaker 2: team left the house. Julie and Melissa were in that

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Speaker 2: hidden dungeon and alive, literally a few feet away.

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Speaker 3: Hums who understands emotions, And I told them it is

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Speaker 3: a very exceptional that somebody abducts two children at the

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Speaker 3: same time. Should have been the yen of it in

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Speaker 3: nineteen eighty six, but my god, it was just a beginning.

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Speaker 4: I think Belgium was a paralyzed for perforts in those days.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to la monstre. I'm your host, Matt Graves. The

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Speaker 2: unsuccessful search of the Truce House where Julie and Melissa

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Speaker 2: were suffering in silence, is a sickening tragedy. It's crazy

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Speaker 2: when you think about it that the John Darmes have

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Speaker 2: been surveilling his house for four months already with their

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Speaker 2: secret Operation Othello. There were countless opportunities to get a

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Speaker 2: search warrant during these four months, but the Gendarmerie kept

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Speaker 2: it a secret and never informed the judge. Also, they

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Speaker 2: didn't want anyone else to search the house. In fact,

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Speaker 2: this failed search wasn't even supposed to be done by

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Speaker 2: the Gendarmerie. The warrant was to look for clues related

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Speaker 2: to the stolen car case, but the Gendarmes pulled some

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Speaker 2: strings and got the green light to do the search themselves.

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Speaker 2: You would think that this was a good outcome. Rather

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Speaker 2: than stolen cars. They should have been focused on finding

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Speaker 2: the girls. But the locksmith who accompanied me show downstairs

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Speaker 2: had no idea that they were looking for kidnap victims.

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Speaker 2: When later questioned under oath, this lockmuth said, I don't.

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Speaker 5: Know a single person who would have left the basement

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Speaker 5: after what they heard if they knew they were searching

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Speaker 5: for your girls. I cannot conceive how they could stop

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Speaker 5: searching after hearing such clear voices.

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Speaker 2: As mentioned, the gendarmes found several video cassettes and collected

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Speaker 2: them as evidence. One of the tapes was a recording

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Speaker 2: of a television show dedicated to the disappearance of Julie

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Speaker 2: and Melissa. Another one was footage of de True himself

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Speaker 2: building the dungeon in that very house. If you're looking

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Speaker 2: for Julian Melissa and you have reports of girls being

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Speaker 2: seen in the house, these two tapes alone are a

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Speaker 2: clear indication that you're on the right track. But the

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Speaker 2: incompetence of the gendarmerie can't be underestimated. One of the

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Speaker 2: gendarmes searching upstairs would later claim that he didn't even

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Speaker 2: know they were looking for little girls. To make matters worse,

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Speaker 2: several of the tapes included pornographic material, including one of

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Speaker 2: the True raping a miner. The contents of these tapes

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Speaker 2: supposedly weren't discovered until nineteen ninety nine because no one

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Speaker 2: bothered to properly analyze them. In fact, some of the

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Speaker 2: tapes simply went missing, and several of them were actually

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Speaker 2: returned to the True after he got out of jail

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Speaker 2: for car theft in March nineteen ninety six, including the

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Speaker 2: one featuring him raping a miner. Is this level of

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Speaker 2: incompetence even possible or with something else going on on

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Speaker 2: that day, December sixteenth, nineteen ninety five. Had the gendarmes

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Speaker 2: done their job, Julian Melissa would have been rescued and

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Speaker 2: reunited with their parents, leading to the possible rescue of

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Speaker 2: Anne and Effia. The True and his accomplices would have

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Speaker 2: been stopped before Sabine and Letitia were ever even abducted.

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Speaker 2: It's heartbreaking to know how close these parents were to

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Speaker 2: avoiding such a horrible tragedy. Nothing about the Operation Othello

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Speaker 2: or the bungled search had come out to the public

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Speaker 2: until after the Parliamentary Commission prided out of a Gendarmes

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Speaker 2: under oath on live television, a camera was filming the

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Speaker 2: faces of the parents as they listened to Inspector Micheau

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Speaker 2: squirm on the hot seat. You can see the wary

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Speaker 2: face of Julie's father, Jean de ni Le Jeanne, as

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Speaker 2: he digests what he was hearing. He's a stoic man,

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Speaker 2: still loved by millions of people in this country, a

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Speaker 2: working class man of the people who labored in a factory,

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Speaker 2: paid his taxes and raised a modest family. He maintained

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Speaker 2: his composure, but couldn't hold back the tears from streaming

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Speaker 2: down his face. To add insult to injury, the parents

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Speaker 2: learned that Inspector Micheaux even returned to d Tru's house

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Speaker 2: for a second search of the property again on December nineteenth.

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Speaker 2: He was just steps away from Julia and Melissa for

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Speaker 2: a second time and still found nothing. When the Parliamentary

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Speaker 2: Commission started, none of the parents knew anything about the

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Speaker 2: fact that the true had been the gendarmes number one suspect.

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Speaker 2: Shortly after their girls actually disappeared.

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Speaker 6: The girls disappeared the twenty fourth of June and from

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Speaker 6: the seventh of July they had marked the two as

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Speaker 6: their top suspect.

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Speaker 2: I spoke to Karine Russeau, the mother of Melissa.

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Speaker 6: They were all aware of Operational Othello, and that they

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Speaker 6: were supposed to surveil the activities of Dureux. And it

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Speaker 6: dragged on and on, and the fiasco of Operation Othello

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Speaker 6: was never understood by us nor by the Parliamentary Commission.

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Speaker 2: I asked her if she thought that Inspector Micheaux was

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Speaker 2: just stupid or was it something else, because his level

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Speaker 2: of incoonfidence was just so unbelievable.

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Speaker 6: It's complicated because his incompetence is incomprehensible. When I saw

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Speaker 6: him at the Commission, I had the impression I was

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Speaker 6: in front of a man who was afraid. The gendarmes

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Speaker 6: seemed like okay, guys who wanted to find the girls,

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Speaker 6: but at the same time they seemed like they were

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Speaker 6: afraid of everything.

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Speaker 2: The failure of the Gendarmerie to question the true and

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Speaker 2: to properly search his property, it's really hard to square.

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Speaker 2: The Parliamentary Commission did a good job of exposing the

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Speaker 2: incompetence of the Gendarmeriy, no matter how hard they tried

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Speaker 2: to hide it. The official conclusion of this commission is

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Speaker 2: that what the gendarmes did and failed to do was

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Speaker 2: indeed a fiasco, but that nothing concrete could be found

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Speaker 2: to prove that the true was somehow protected. I have

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Speaker 2: a strong distaste for conspiracy theories, but as I study

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Speaker 2: the facts, I'm starting to have doubts about the official line.

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Speaker 2: While reading cariin Rousseau's memoirs, I stumbled across an odd

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Speaker 2: anecdote about something that happened in December nineteen ninety five,

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Speaker 2: around the same timeframe of the failed search of Dtru's house.

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Speaker 2: She wrote about a visit they received at the time

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Speaker 2: from a gendarme named Valert Martin. According to Karine's account,

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Speaker 2: he came to their house in early December claiming that

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Speaker 2: one of the girls had been located. After having read

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Speaker 2: almost everything on this case, this was detail I'd never

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Speaker 2: heard about. The true affair is full of rabbit holes,

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Speaker 2: and when I read this, I thought this must have

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Speaker 2: just been something that was misinterpreted or perhaps overplayed. I

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Speaker 2: had to hear it straight from Karin directly and really

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Speaker 2: understand how it played out, because if true, it flies

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Speaker 2: in the face of the conclusions of the Parliamentary Commission,

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Speaker 2: the Trial of the Truth and the majority of the

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Speaker 2: Belgian press. Today.

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Speaker 6: It was the Gendarmes Valle Martin, a field officer working

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Speaker 6: on the investigation of the disappearance of Julian and Melissa.

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Speaker 6: It was with him that we had the most contact.

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Speaker 6: He was the investigator that came not every day, but

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Speaker 6: at least every week. He stayed in contact with us

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Speaker 6: to see if we had any news on our side,

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Speaker 6: and we asked him for news, but he never had any.

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Speaker 6: So he came by at the beginning of December, but

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Speaker 6: I can't remember the exact date, and at that time

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Speaker 6: he told us that there was an operation under way

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Speaker 6: and that we might be able to open Champagne by

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Speaker 6: Christmas because we might have the girls back by then.

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Speaker 6: He said we had to keep it on the down

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Speaker 6: low and sit tight, but there was hope, and he

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Speaker 6: said the problem was that they couldn't do anything for

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Speaker 6: the moment because they had located one of the girls

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Speaker 6: but not both of them, and if they undertook an

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Speaker 6: operation for just one of the girls, because they knew

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Speaker 6: where she was, they could put the other girl at risk.

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Speaker 6: So they had located one of the girls, but they

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Speaker 6: needed to wait to know where the other one was

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Speaker 6: before making a move. That's what he said. That was

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Speaker 6: what he explained to us at that time.

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Speaker 2: I didn't want to offend Kareem, but this is a

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Speaker 2: huge statement with serious implications. I had to ask her

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Speaker 2: if there were others who had witnessed this conversation.

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Speaker 6: At the time. Jean Denis and Luisa Lege and my

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Speaker 6: husband and I were here. They were almost always here

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Speaker 6: at the house, and also my brother and sister in

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Speaker 6: law were here at the time. They were practically living

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Speaker 6: here to help us with everything. And we asked him

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Speaker 6: which of the girls it was, and he didn't want

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Speaker 6: to answer because it was too hard, and we understood

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Speaker 6: in a way, we didn't even want to know which

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Speaker 6: of the girls it was, because imagine if we had learned,

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Speaker 6: for example, that they found Melissa but they couldn't save

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Speaker 6: her because they hadn't found Julie, or the other way around.

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Speaker 6: It's really hard. I think we didn't even want to know.

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Speaker 6: But my brother took him aside and asked which girl

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Speaker 6: it was, and the gendarmes told him that the girl

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Speaker 6: they had located was Melissa, and he told me afterwards.

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Speaker 2: This moment was a tipping point for me. There I

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Speaker 2: was sitting with Karine Rousseau on her back porch, less

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Speaker 2: than a mile from where this whole tragedy started. I

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Speaker 2: had assumed that this story was some sort of rumor,

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Speaker 2: but she was absolutely adamant. And it wasn't just her

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Speaker 2: who'd witnessed this event, but her husband, brother and sister

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Speaker 2: in law, and the mother and father of Julie Lejeanne.

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Speaker 6: But I don't know, because there was never any follow

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Speaker 6: up on this because after this we never saw the

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Speaker 6: gendarme again. From the beginning of January, they told us

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Speaker 6: that the investigators couldn't contact us anymore, and that we

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Speaker 6: couldn't have contact with the Gendarme Marie any longer.

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Speaker 2: I couldn't believe what I was hearing and maybe overstep

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Speaker 2: the boundaries of the interview by asking how they didn't

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Speaker 2: just grab him by the neck and force the details

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Speaker 2: out of him. What did he know? Did he really

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Speaker 2: have something?

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Speaker 6: We had confidence in them, We had so much hope,

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Speaker 6: and what he was telling us was that the thread

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Speaker 6: that we were holding on to. So we respected what

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Speaker 6: they said and what they asked of us. They said,

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Speaker 6: to stay discreete, don't do anything. Something's going to happen.

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Speaker 6: So we were holding on so tightly to that thread

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Speaker 6: of hope that we did whatever they asked of us.

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Speaker 6: And after when we realized during the Parliamentary Commission, when

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Speaker 6: we discovered Operation Othello and the search of Dutru's house

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Speaker 6: and that he'd been arrested in December, etc. We realized

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Speaker 6: that this happened exactly at the same time of the

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Speaker 6: searches of Dutruz house in Marsinel by the gendarmes from Charlois,

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Speaker 6: So it happened at that time. So was there at

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Speaker 6: that time an operation planned to save the girls that failed.

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Speaker 2: I asked her if she ever followed up with this

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Speaker 2: gendarme after everything came out.

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Speaker 6: After the girls were found, we went to see him

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Speaker 6: at his house during the month of September nineteen ninety six,

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Speaker 6: and we asked him for answers because he sent us

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Speaker 6: a letter where he wrote, quote, I will never excuse

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Speaker 6: those who prevented me from working. Yeah, And so we

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Speaker 6: found him and said, now you're going to have to

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Speaker 6: explain who were the people who prevented you from working?

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Speaker 6: Who are they and what happened? And he was in tears,

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Speaker 6: and his wife was in tears, and she was begging us, saying, no,

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Speaker 6: don't try to find out. We're going to lose everything.

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Speaker 6: You don't understand what it's like for gendarmes in the genre, Marie,

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Speaker 6: you can't talk. She was explaining this and asking us

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Speaker 6: to leave and saying that they'd lose everything. And I said, no,

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Speaker 6: we lost everything. We lost our girl, and now your

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Speaker 6: tears and your story aren't going to make me cry.

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Speaker 6: But he never said anything. And when the Parliamentary Commission happened,

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Speaker 6: a deputy relayed our question. He asked him about this

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Speaker 6: very directly in public, and he said, quote, I don't remember.

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Speaker 2: I tried to track down the former gendarmes Valerire Martin

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Speaker 2: and even his wife, but they've both since passed away.

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Speaker 2: I spoke to an ex colleague of his who's still

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Speaker 2: an active duty police officer in Liege, but he wouldn't

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Speaker 2: say a word about it. In fact, he said he'd

250
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Speaker 2: never even heard of this story and was quote stunned

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Speaker 2: by what I was telling him. But I know that's

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Speaker 2: not true. As he was at the Parliamentary Commission When

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Speaker 2: this question was asked directly to Valer Martin, so I

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Speaker 2: decided it wasn't worth continuing the discussion. He clearly wasn't

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Speaker 2: being frank with me. The practical consequence of this are significant.

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Speaker 2: If the Gendarmerie had located one of the girls in

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Speaker 2: December of nineteen ninety five, it changes everything. Simply put,

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Speaker 2: it would mean that the explanation of the Gendarmery, confirmed

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Speaker 2: by the Parliamentary Commission in nineteen ninety seven and the

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Speaker 2: Court of Appeals in two thousand and four, is a lie.

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Speaker 4: You shouldn't underestimate that the gen Armerie was a military structure,

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Speaker 4: so they think strategically, they accept collateral damage. It was

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Speaker 4: not a police force as you or me probably would

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Speaker 4: think of a police force. It was a power mechanism.

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Speaker 2: This is the voice of Jan Fermont, one of the

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Speaker 2: lawyers who represented Letitia Dalles during the trial of the

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Speaker 2: true in two thousand and four. Several notable journalists, as

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Speaker 2: well as victim's family members, suggest that he could provide

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Speaker 2: insight into various aspects of the case.

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Speaker 4: The geen Armie had an internal system where there was

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Speaker 4: an indication that the gendarme was involved in criminal activity

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Speaker 4: was an internal ban on communication to the prosecutor. It

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Speaker 4: had to go up the hierarchy first, and only with

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Speaker 4: the authorization of the hierarchy it could go to the prosecution.

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Speaker 4: So this was a culture and that has led, for

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Speaker 4: example to the fact that the National Drug Bureau of

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Speaker 4: the Belgian Gian dal Marie, who was working very closely

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Speaker 4: together with the DEA at that time, actually became one

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Speaker 4: of the main drug dealers on the Belgian market because

280
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Speaker 4: and the gendarme who found out that actually the cocaine

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Speaker 4: was his bosses. If he ran into that by chance,

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Speaker 4: after going ten times up the hierarchy and saying we

283
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Speaker 4: have a problem. There are kilos of cocaine passing and

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Speaker 4: my bosses involved in that, he actually at some point

285
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Speaker 4: said the law says that I should go to the prosecutor,

286
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Speaker 4: went out of its own initiative to the prosecute, and

287
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Speaker 4: the next day he was removed from the job. That

288
00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:13,760
Speaker 4: guy ended up, after forty years of career as an

289
00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:18,679
Speaker 4: investigator as a specialized investigator, ended up washing cars in

290
00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:21,920
Speaker 4: the garage of the Jean Darmerie. And there are many,

291
00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:27,200
Speaker 4: many actually incredible stories in which the Jean Armerie got

292
00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:31,040
Speaker 4: involved in that period, members of the Jean Deremerie putting

293
00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:33,119
Speaker 4: a bomb in the car of another member of the

294
00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:38,960
Speaker 4: Geen Deremebrie which happened here in Brussels, trying to kill

295
00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:43,600
Speaker 4: with the machine gun fire another member of the Geen Eremerie,

296
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Speaker 4: which happened to Majere Vernaye. It's rather heavy stuff and

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Speaker 4: all this is the eighties and the nineties. We are

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Speaker 4: in the middle of a period where all kinds of

299
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Speaker 4: stuff is happening in the Geen Armerie, which is outrageou,

300
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Speaker 4: which is far beyond what any normal person would expect

301
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Speaker 4: or would believe that it's all reality.

302
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Speaker 2: I asked him about this gendarme named Valeris Martin, who

303
00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:16,360
Speaker 2: at one point told Julie in Melissa's families that one

304
00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:18,919
Speaker 2: of the girls had been located. And he told me

305
00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:21,879
Speaker 2: an interesting story about a scene that played out at

306
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Speaker 2: trial in two thousand and four. You'll hear him mention

307
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Speaker 2: the name Lisage. Lossage was valers Martin's boss at the Gendarmerie.

308
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Speaker 2: He was called to testify at the trial along with

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Speaker 2: Valeris Martin and another gendarmes.

310
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Speaker 4: So the next day, when we come into the courtroom.

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Speaker 4: Somebody comes to me and says, do you know that

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Speaker 4: Losage and his two other colleagues received a long briefing

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Speaker 4: yesterday from their former superior in geen Armerie what they

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Speaker 4: should say and what they shouldn't say. And this former

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Speaker 4: Colonel de Geen Darmodi, drove them in his car here

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Speaker 4: and will be present in the room.

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Speaker 2: So the three gendarmes were subpoenaed at the core case. Strangely,

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00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:14,680
Speaker 2: their former boss, a high ranking officer in the Gendarmerie,

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Speaker 2: spent the days before briefing them and then actually drove

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Speaker 2: them to the hearings.

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Speaker 4: You see this guy leaning against the door in the

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Speaker 4: back with a leather jacket, and this is Colonel such

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Speaker 4: and so. So there are, one by one the three

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Speaker 4: called Lussage comes in before anything else. Lage is nothing

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Speaker 4: to say. The President tells him, maybe please wait a second,

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Speaker 4: because at least I want to ask you your name.

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Speaker 4: Of course, after some time some questions are asked. And

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Speaker 4: the other thing that I said, I'm nothing, I know

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Speaker 4: nothing to say, which I think is an absolutely intolerable

330
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Speaker 4: attitude because he is on the road. I mean, you're

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Speaker 4: a policeman you're working with the money of the taxpayers

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Speaker 4: to solve the case. And then when the court asks

333
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Speaker 4: you to ask to respond to a question, you say,

334
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Speaker 4: I don't want to talk to you. Nothing. The second

335
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Speaker 4: member of the team comes in and plays a piece

336
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Speaker 4: of theater. Yeah yeah, Julia, Melissa, Yeah, yeah, I remember. No,

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Speaker 4: I don't know. I don't remember that. No, no, I

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Speaker 4: I know I worked on this case, but no, no, no,

339
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Speaker 4: it's a long time ago. Then the turtm and I

340
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Speaker 4: think that was what I comes in and so he

341
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Speaker 4: comes in. Instead of going to the witness stand, he

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Speaker 4: comes to the bench where I say, I'm sitting next

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Speaker 4: to jan. This policeman even doesn't greet the court. He

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Speaker 4: immediately comes to gen I and he says, cause you come,

345
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Speaker 4: prete Tooma. I understood everything.

346
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Speaker 7: Now says yeah, but please go to the witness stand

347
00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:05,119
Speaker 7: and tell the court, because if you know anything, please

348
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:06,600
Speaker 7: take the stand and say what you know.

349
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Speaker 4: And then nothing. So I got a little bit angry

350
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Speaker 4: because you can't ask directly questions. So as a civil party,

351
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,520
Speaker 4: you have to go through the court. Say please, mister president,

352
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,520
Speaker 4: could you ask the witness such and such information. Then

353
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Speaker 4: the president decides whether yes, or no you'll ask question.

354
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:25,440
Speaker 4: So I said, could you please ask the last witness

355
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:31,879
Speaker 4: why he is crying? Why he is doing this? No answer?

356
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:35,400
Speaker 4: Could you ask the witness if maybe he is scared

357
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:39,359
Speaker 4: of somebody? Is he maybe scared of this gentleman standing

358
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 4: against leaning against the door? Who is Colonel such and

359
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:46,080
Speaker 4: so from the gean armerie who brought these three people

360
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:48,880
Speaker 4: yesterday in his personal car to this place, who gave

361
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,719
Speaker 4: them a briefing the day before yesterday about what they

362
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 4: could say, what they could not say? Is he maybe

363
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:58,439
Speaker 4: afraid of making statement because this gentleman is watching what

364
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 4: he is saying? Nothing, I'd answer to the presentic is

365
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 4: really impossibly. And then the President of the court turned

366
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 4: to me and said, I understand your frustration. I understand

367
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,199
Speaker 4: we are all frustrated. But what do you want me

368
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,639
Speaker 4: to do? Torture is not allowed, and that's approximately the

369
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 4: only thing I see what I can do to make

370
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:23,919
Speaker 4: them speak. He was right, he comes forced them to speak.

371
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 4: The attitude of keeping the information to themselves, not sharing it,

372
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 4: trying to keep as many people out of the discussion

373
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 4: as they could actually went even on during the trial,

374
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 4: and they organized it. Obviously the three of them playing

375
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:49,679
Speaker 4: some kind of game, not to get involved in real questioning.

376
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:51,400
Speaker 4: It was an organized thing.

377
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:57,640
Speaker 8: I mean, I think it's an indication of how keen

378
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 8: they were, or how worried the were about being transparent

379
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:17,879
Speaker 8: and open about what actually happens.

380
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 2: The month of December nineteen ninety five was a pivotal

381
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 2: time in this affair. On the sixth of December, the

382
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,960
Speaker 2: true was detained for car theft and kidnapping of adults.

383
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:34,679
Speaker 2: On the thirteenth and nineteenth of December, Inspector Micheaud of

384
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 2: the Gendarmeriy executed searches of the house where Julian Melissa

385
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 2: were hidden without finding them, And right around this same time,

386
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,640
Speaker 2: a gendarmes told the families of Julian Melissa that one

387
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:48,960
Speaker 2: of the girls had been located and that they were

388
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 2: waiting to locate both of the girls before making any moves.

389
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:56,400
Speaker 2: When the parents never heard back from Valerer Martin, they

390
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 2: of course agitated with the Gendarmerie to get more information.

391
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 2: Valer Martin was censured by his superiors after word got

392
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 2: out about what he'd said. I've seen a copy of

393
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 2: this century which is in the case file, and it

394
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,880
Speaker 2: ends with the following sentence quote, I remind you that

395
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:19,120
Speaker 2: no details of any kind, including new information, verifications carried out,

396
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 2: or any information about the investigation, can be communicated to

397
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 2: the parents, even for reasons of humanity unquote. The hopeful

398
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 2: news about locating the girls was followed by a wall

399
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 2: of silence, the silence that Karen wrote about in her

400
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 2: journal entry on December twenty seventh, nineteen ninety five.

401
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:42,360
Speaker 6: The silence of your disappearance, silence of the legal system,

402
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 6: silence of the powerful, scandalous silence, accomplice of crime and misfortunes.

403
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 2: Christmas had come and gone, and there is no Champagne

404
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 2: celebration of finding the girls as promised. The desperation of

405
00:26:55,800 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 2: Karine's journal entries at this time is excruciating. At one point,

406
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 2: her despair drove her to run out of the house

407
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 2: at night into the dark, windswept field next to where

408
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:12,679
Speaker 2: Julian Melissa disappeared and screamed helplessly into oblivion. Pourquois or

409
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 2: why hoo goa woo whi. While the true was imprisoned

410
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 2: for auto theft and adult kidnapping, his wife and partner

411
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,920
Speaker 2: in crime, Michel Martin, was living at their house in

412
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,920
Speaker 2: Sarcee Labuisiere, and Julian and Melissa were alone in the

413
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 2: dungeon in Marcinelle. Michel Martin later testified that she went

414
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 2: to the house in Marcinelle every few days to feed

415
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 2: their two German shepherds, but that she was afraid to

416
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 2: go into the basement. She fed the dogs, but not

417
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 2: the two eight year old girls. Again, according to their

418
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 2: own testimony, the true ordered his wife to enter the

419
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 2: dungeon to give the girls provisions and empty the buckets

420
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,360
Speaker 2: he'd placed there for the girls to use the toilet.

421
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 2: It wasn't until mid January that she claimed to have

422
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 2: gone down to the basement. The house was cold and dark,

423
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 2: and it stank from neglect. As the hungry dogs were barking.

424
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:10,120
Speaker 2: The two police searchers had left the unkept dump into

425
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 2: more disarray than usual. Michel Martin later explained to the

426
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 2: court what happened. These are her words, not her voice.

427
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:21,879
Speaker 9: I went down the basement and I was shaking like

428
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 9: a leaf. When I reached the door to the dungeon,

429
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 9: I was faced with the dilemma. I wanted to open it,

430
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 9: but at the same time I refused to do it.

431
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 9: I was afraid of those children. In my mind, there

432
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 9: was an image of lions of ferocious animals that would

433
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 9: attack me.

434
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 2: Nonetheless, she stated that she overcame her fear of these

435
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 2: ferocious eight year old girls and shoved some provisions through

436
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 2: the door and then quickly closed it. From then on,

437
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 2: she returned every few days to feed the dogs, but

438
00:28:56,160 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 2: never went down to the basement again. On March twentieth,

439
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety five, the true was finally released from jail,

440
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 2: just after four months of being charged for car theft

441
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 2: and adult kidnapping.

442
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 6: He had been condemned for other kidnappings years earlier. Then

443
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 6: he was paroled, then he kidnapped our girls. Then he

444
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 6: was arrested for car theft and kidnapping, and he was

445
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 6: already on parole for kidnapping, and then after four months

446
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 6: he's released. A guy who's on parole keeps kidnapping people

447
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 6: gets released from his current sentence for kidnapping. And the

448
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 6: reason I swear to you this is documented in the

449
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 6: file humanitarian reasons. That's the way it's written for humanitarian reasons.

450
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 6: Because the heat was off at his wife, Madame Martine's house,

451
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 6: and she needed him to repair the heating. He's freed

452
00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 6: because his old lady is cold. It's what's written. We thought,

453
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 6: how could this be possible. If someone told you, you'd

454
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 6: say no, it can't be like that, But when you

455
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 6: see it, it's what's written.

456
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 2: The world is full of stories of nutjobs getting out

457
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 2: of prison too early, but this one is particularly egregious.

458
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 2: Remember De True was still on parole from his previous

459
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,960
Speaker 2: early release for kidnapping and raping five girls when he

460
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 2: again got busted for theft and kidnapping, but they still

461
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 2: released him without baild True later claimed that when he

462
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 2: got back to the house in March, Julie wasn't responding

463
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 2: and Melissa was alive but struggling. He said that he

464
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 2: tried to nurse them back to health, but that it

465
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 2: was too late, and that both of them died in March.

466
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 2: One thing we know for sure about Mark de True

467
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 2: is that he's a liar. Careine Rousseau, her husband, and

468
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 2: the parents of Julie don't believe his story about the

469
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 2: end of Julie in Melissa's life.

470
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 6: The condition of the girls for three and a half

471
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 6: months locked in a dungeon like that to survive by

472
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 6: themselves is completely improbable. You can't survive in conditions like

473
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 6: that for three and a half months. It's physically impossible.

474
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 6: And a nutritionist who testified at the trial did a

475
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 6: calculation of what they could have received in terms of water, etc.

476
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 6: And she said that it didn't make any sense. So

477
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 6: the nutritionist at the trial concluded that it wasn't possible.

478
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 6: And nonetheless, they left the conclusion like that they died

479
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 6: following their incarceration by Dutroux and Martin was unable to

480
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 6: save them, and voila. And this is the legal truth

481
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 6: that they gave us, whereas we're not convinced that they

482
00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 6: stayed there the whole time. We don't know, oh, if

483
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 6: they were there for three and a half months, or

484
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 6: if they were taken somewhere else and then brought back there.

485
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 2: I've read the reports from the nutritionist who concluded that

486
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 2: it was impossible for Julian Melissa to survive over three

487
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:18,719
Speaker 2: and a half months without expiring from dehydration. In the report,

488
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 2: she wrote, survival for one hundred and three days would

489
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 2: not be possible without at least one hundred and fifty

490
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:29,720
Speaker 2: liters of water per child, the amount of water purported

491
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 2: to have been supplied by Michelle Martin in the middle

492
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 2: of January was not sufficient for survival for another seven weeks.

493
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 2: Julian Melissa's parents believed that Marked a true wasn't acting

494
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 2: alone and that he was receiving help from people who've

495
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 2: never been identified, people with the power to pull strings.

496
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 2: This brings us to the most crucial question of this

497
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 2: entire affair. Was Marked a true and isolated predator who

498
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 2: only got help from low level accomplices like his wife

499
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 2: Michelle Martin, Lackey accomplice michel Lelievre, and known criminal Bernard Weinstein.

500
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 2: Or were others like the corrupt businessman Michelle Lee, who

501
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 2: involved in a more sophisticated, high level human sex trafficking ring.

502
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 2: This question divides politicians, magistrates, journalists, and even victims in

503
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 2: their families still to this day. We will explore this

504
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 2: question further as witnesses come forward with accusations of conspiracy,

505
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 2: abuse and murder on the next episode of La Monstre.

506
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 2: Next time on La Monstre.

507
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 9: I remember it like it's a film in my head.

508
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 9: I can close my eyes and see every little details

509
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:50,960
Speaker 9: of that house where.

510
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 7: She was murdering.

511
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 10: The search with the forensic team to analyze all of

512
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 10: the hairs in London and so on, so would have

513
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 10: probably you found the DNA of Shile and Melissa Bloody

514
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:09,759
Speaker 10: and and I still affirm today that the reason they

515
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 10: didn't grant me a warrant is that they were afraid

516
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,320
Speaker 10: to open the door to a possible wider network.

517
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:19,920
Speaker 11: For this lady is completely crazy.

518
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:21,280
Speaker 4: That was her first assessment.

519
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:21,879
Speaker 2: Right.

520
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 11: But all the things he is telling us this is

521
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 11: not possible, cannot be true. And also the names he

522
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 11: was quoting were people of of high society, politicians, heads

523
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:38,800
Speaker 11: of captains of industry, magistrates, police people.

524
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 4: So this cannot be true. This is too much. Right,

525
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 4: That was a bit of first feeling.

526
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 2: I think, when did you start to believe? The Monster

527
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 2: is a production of Tenderfoot TV and iHeart Radio, hosted

528
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 2: and executive produced by me Matt Graves, produced by Thomas

529
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:10,880
Speaker 2: Resimont of Bubble Sound. Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay are

530
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 2: executive producers on the behalf of Tenderfoot TV with producer

531
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 2: Makeup and Vanity Set. Matt Frederick and Alex Williams are

532
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:22,879
Speaker 2: executive producers on the behalf of iHeartRadio with producer Trevor Young.

533
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 2: Original music by Jay Ragsdale. Sound design by Cooper Skinner

534
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:31,839
Speaker 2: and Thomas Resimo, mixed and mastered by Cooper Skinner. Cover

535
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 2: design by Trevor Eiler. La Monstra includes archival audio from SONYMA,

536
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 2: RTBF Archives and CNN Archives. Special thanks to Back Media

537
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:46,799
Speaker 2: and Marketing Station sixteen, Jean Savigna, and the teams at

538
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 2: iHeart Radio and tenderfoot TV. Find us on social media

539
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:55,360
Speaker 2: at Monster Underscore pod. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio

540
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 2: or Tenderfoot TV, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

541
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 2: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

542
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 7: MHM