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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff give you, guys, the best independent.

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Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that,

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Speaker 2: let's get to the show. Good morning, everybody, Happy Monday.

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Speaker 2: We have an amazing show for everybody today, extra amazing

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Speaker 2: because Crystal is back.

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Speaker 3: It's great to see you. Crystal. What do we have today?

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Speaker 4: It is great to be back.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Soccer by the way for covering

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Speaker 1: for me and the team, and Ryan and everybody you've

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Speaker 1: filled in. We have a lot to get to this morning, though.

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Speaker 1: As Soccer covered for you yesterday, three US service members

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Speaker 1: are dead after a suicide drone attack in Jordan. What

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Speaker 1: are they even doing there? What does that mean for

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Speaker 1: broader conflagrations in the Middle East? A lot to talk

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Speaker 1: about there. We're also following the US cut funding for

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Speaker 1: a critical un AID agency dedicated to Palestinians.

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Speaker 4: This of course comes.

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Speaker 1: As ICJ ruled that Israel is plausibly committing genocide in

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Speaker 1: the Gaza strip. Break that down for you. Nancy Pelosi

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Speaker 1: floating a wild new Russia Gate conspiracy. Got to hear

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Speaker 1: this one to believe it, truly astonishing. The mayor of Dearborn,

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Speaker 1: Michigan is actually going to join us, so he refused

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Speaker 1: to meet with Biden campaign officials, this in spite of

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Speaker 1: the fact that he is a longtime Democrat, over Biden's

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Speaker 1: unconditional support for Israel. So we're going to talk to

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Speaker 1: him about that and how he is thinking about the

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Speaker 1: general election matchup likely between Biden and Trump. Taylor Swift

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Speaker 1: Ai nudes causing a whole frucus all the way up

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Speaker 1: to the White House, massive debate about what to do

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Speaker 1: about this, if anything should be done about this, et cetera.

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Speaker 4: So we'll talk about that.

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Speaker 1: And Soccer is looking at the political divide between young

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Speaker 1: men and young women, which seems to only be widening.

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Speaker 3: Yes, that's right, Crystal.

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Speaker 2: Before we do get to that, though, we want to

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Speaker 2: say thank you also to our premium subscribers helping us

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Speaker 2: for gearing up for election season. We've got the discount

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Speaker 2: going on right now. We have our RFK Junior focus group,

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Speaker 2: which will be coming to everybody next week. We're really

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Speaker 2: excited to bring everybody that. Actually, it turns out while

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Speaker 2: the delay was not something that we wanted due to

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Speaker 2: the snow that you know, there's quite a lot of

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Speaker 2: relevance with RFK Junior right now, and we're going to

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Speaker 2: have a lot to cover tomorrow as well, lots of

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Speaker 2: domestic stories, the border situation, all that we wanted to

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Speaker 2: make sure we cover our bases with foreign policy today

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Speaker 2: just because of the tragic death of those service members

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Speaker 2: and unfortunately Crystal even worse calls for war with Iran

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Speaker 2: pervading the bipartisan consensus here in Washington.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's exactly right.

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Speaker 1: So let's start with that news, which is certainly the

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Speaker 1: top story of the day with potentially massive and terrifying implications.

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Speaker 1: Was put this up on the screen, as I said,

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Speaker 1: three US troops killed an up to thirty four injured

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Speaker 1: in Jordan. This due to a so called suicide drone

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Speaker 1: strike that the Biden administration is linking to these Iranian

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Speaker 1: backed militias. I can read you from a little bit

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Speaker 1: this story. Biden's response, he says, have no doubt we

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Speaker 1: will hold all those responsible to account at a time

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Speaker 1: and in a manner of our choosing. Around's mission to

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Speaker 1: the UNS and a statement that Tehran was not involved

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Speaker 1: in the attack. Aron had no connection, had nothing to

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Speaker 1: do with the attack on the US base according to

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Speaker 1: that mission. They added, there is a conflict between US

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Speaker 1: forces and resistance groups in the region which reciprocate retaliatory attacks.

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Speaker 4: We could go ahead and put up on.

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Speaker 1: The screen a map so that you get a sense

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Speaker 1: of where exactly these attacks were happening. You can see

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Speaker 1: they're right on the border here of Jordan and Syria.

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Speaker 1: Apparently this facility that was targeted is referred to as

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Speaker 1: Tower twenty two, very very close to that Jordan Syria border.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's so much to say about this. First

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Speaker 1: of all, you know, anytime our service members are attacked

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Speaker 1: in this region, I'm sure plenty of Americans are going,

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Speaker 1: what are they even doing in this region? Like, why

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Speaker 1: are they even to be sitting ducks for these types

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Speaker 1: of attacks? Number two, Sadly, this was entirely predictable result

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Speaker 1: of Biden's policy vis A VI Israel since October seventh,

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Speaker 1: And we can put this up on the screen this map.

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Speaker 1: You know, you guys haven't heard that much about these

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Speaker 1: in the news, even though you should have. There have

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Speaker 1: been well over one hundred and fifty of these types

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Speaker 1: of attacks, and tragically, it was only a matter of

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Speaker 1: time before one of the attacks broke through and claimed

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Speaker 1: the lives of US service members. So there is no

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Speaker 1: doubt in my mind this is very likely linked directly

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Speaker 1: to the Biden administration's policy viz a vi Israel.

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Speaker 4: Part of how we know.

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Speaker 1: That is because during the time when there was a

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Speaker 1: brief cease fire, these attacks completely stopped, and so it

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Speaker 1: once again raises the quest uestion of what the hell

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Speaker 1: are we doing here? Even if you don't care about

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Speaker 1: the moral outrage of what is happening in Gaza, the

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Speaker 1: Biden policy has put our service members at risk and

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Speaker 1: is directly in contravention of our own national security interests.

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Speaker 1: And to me, that's what is really underscored by these

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Speaker 1: unbelievably tragic deaths and avoidable deaths.

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Speaker 2: In the end, Yeah, I'm really outraged by this because

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Speaker 2: it was so predictable. We're sitting here for weeks just

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Speaker 2: saying listen, it's on a matter of time.

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Speaker 3: It only takes one.

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Speaker 2: It only takes this and then we see, you know,

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Speaker 2: tit for tat, We go up, we go up, something

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Speaker 2: gets fired at a ship and now you know, this

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Speaker 2: is a really horrible situation because these guys, by all accounts,

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Speaker 2: were literally sleeping, so it was in the middle of

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Speaker 2: the night and a suicide drone appears to have attacked

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Speaker 2: their barracks. Because we also saw that the number of

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Speaker 2: wounded rose significantly from yesterday. It now stands at thirty four,

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Speaker 2: but very likely to go even higher. Unfortunately, many of

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Speaker 2: the men who were wounded actually remain in critical condition

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Speaker 2: and had to be airlifted out of Jordan to a

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Speaker 2: nearby hospital. That also reminds us of why are three

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Speaker 2: thousand American soldiers or service members in Jordan in the

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Speaker 2: first place. The ostensible purpose of this base is part

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Speaker 2: of the anti Isis mission.

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Speaker 3: I mean, when's the last time that.

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Speaker 2: We heard anything about what was going on with US

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Speaker 2: operations in Syria and in Isis. Don't forget that belies

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Speaker 2: the fact that there are a number of US troops

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Speaker 2: in Syria, again with no authorization from Congress, and they

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Speaker 2: have been there now for years in near permanent installations.

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Speaker 2: There's a bigger defense question Tier two really about the

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Speaker 2: use of these suicide drones and US air defense systems.

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Speaker 2: There had long been promises and both to the troops

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Speaker 2: and others, that we had adequate force protection for our

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Speaker 2: service members who are so forward deployed in Syria and elsewhere,

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Speaker 2: saying we had all of these advanced air defense systems

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Speaker 2: that were in place to make sure that something like

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Speaker 2: this would happen. Obviously completely failed in this regard, and

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Speaker 2: now three of our service members are dead and more

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Speaker 2: than three dozen nearly have been wounded, some critically who

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Speaker 2: have been injured, and who knows what the prognosis remains

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Speaker 2: for them. It is a bigger, major strategic question about

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Speaker 2: what are our service members doing here. Don't forget either, Crystal.

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Speaker 2: In the initial statement, President Biden blamed Iranian backed groups

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Speaker 2: in Iraq and in Syria, so it raises questions there

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Speaker 2: about what exact groups that these.

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Speaker 3: Are, whether they're in Iraq. Don't forget this.

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Speaker 2: If we're going to respond quote hard and heavy or

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Speaker 2: whatever it is that the Lindsey Graham and all those

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Speaker 2: want us to do, there is a very dangerous and

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Speaker 2: diplomatic talk going on right now.

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Speaker 3: With Iraq.

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Speaker 2: Many of the Iraqis do not want us to stay

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Speaker 2: there that our troops. The Biden administration is fighting to

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Speaker 2: make sure that our troops can remain inside of the country.

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Speaker 2: Ostensibly for this anti isis mission more likely to do

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Speaker 2: with forward posture against Iran. Regardless, this is going to

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Speaker 2: affect that if there is some sort of major retaliation

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Speaker 2: inside of Iraq, which very likely could invite domestic political

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Speaker 2: push on top of who the hell knows what goes

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Speaker 2: on in Syria. But what scares me more than anything

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Speaker 2: is the total unwillingness to, you know, just throw caution

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Speaker 2: to the wind right now amongst the Washington establishment, and

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Speaker 2: you see direct calls, bipartisan calls right now to strike

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Speaker 2: Iranian territory, not to wipe out or even retaliate against

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Speaker 2: these Iraqi and Syrian groups would directly go to the source.

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Speaker 2: And that's what we're seeing from all across the Aisle

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Speaker 2: immediately in the aftermath of the attack.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so we could put some of that up on

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Speaker 1: the screen. The Republicans largely jumped in most aggressively. Of course,

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Speaker 1: many of these same people use any and every excuse

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Speaker 1: to push for war with Iran. You've got Senator John

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Speaker 1: Cornyn target Tehran, Lindsey Graham, hit Iran, now hit them hard.

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Speaker 1: Tom Cotton my statement following the Iran backed attacks in

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Speaker 1: Jordan that killed treas u As service members and injured

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Speaker 1: twenty five the TLDR, there is also war with Iran.

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Speaker 4: Tim Scott.

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Speaker 1: Enough is enough by Aen administration's appeasement of Iran must end.

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Speaker 4: Time for clear and decisive action.

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Speaker 1: Chuck Grassley will present Biden finally take decisive action against Iran. So,

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Speaker 1: I mean, first of all, I think it's important to

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Speaker 1: say a couple things about this, like, obviously this is psychotic,

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Speaker 1: the idea that we should just jump into a full

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Speaker 1: scale war with Iran.

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Speaker 4: You know, it's not something that the American people want.

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Speaker 1: It is a disastrous, absolutely insane idea that goes almost

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Speaker 1: without saying. I also think it's worth noting, you know,

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Speaker 1: the media always it's almost like a verbal tick. They

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Speaker 1: use this phrase like Iran backed militias, and it is true.

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Speaker 1: Obviously they're they're linked, they're funded, there's you know, affiliations there,

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Speaker 1: but you can get the impression that they're just acting

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Speaker 1: one hundred percent as puppets of Iran. And they're just

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Speaker 1: doing like whatever their actions are, they're directed, you know,

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Speaker 1: directly from Tehran, and that is not the case. You know,

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Speaker 1: these groups have their own impetus, they have their own motivations,

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Speaker 1: they have their own goals, They're capable of planning their

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Speaker 1: own attacks. So when Iran says it wasn't us, maybe

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Speaker 1: it was. Maybe it wasn't. But I just want people

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Speaker 1: to understand that these groups are not Iran. They are

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Speaker 1: linked to Iran, yes, but that doesn't mean that they

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Speaker 1: are directly taking their orders from Tehran. The most critical

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Speaker 1: piece here, I think, Sager, is you see once again

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Speaker 1: the way that the logic of escalation only ever goes

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Speaker 1: in one direction. It has never been more clear that

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Speaker 1: the reason these attacks are happening is directly because of

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Speaker 1: our unconditional support for Israel, because of the fact that

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Speaker 1: we have been a primary you know, we've been a

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Speaker 1: primary blockade to any sort of ceasefire or longer truce,

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Speaker 1: and when there was a brief ceasefire, these attacks stopped.

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Speaker 1: So all of this trouble in the Middle East, the

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Speaker 1: Red Sea, the Hoofies. You know, we had two Navy

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Speaker 1: seals who also are dead because of our actions in

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Speaker 1: the Middle East, they didn't come under direct buyer, but

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Speaker 1: as a result of our operations in the Red Sea,

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Speaker 1: they too are dead. All of this is happening because

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Speaker 1: of our policy visa the Israel.

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Speaker 4: So instead though, of.

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Speaker 1: Reassessing that policy and saying there's a very clear answer

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Speaker 1: and solution to all of these problems, which by the way,

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Speaker 1: would also be in the best interests of humanity in

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Speaker 1: the Gaza strip, instead it's always we have to escalate,

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Speaker 1: we have to hit them harder, we have to escalate

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Speaker 1: to de escalate, et.

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Speaker 4: Cetera, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: It's what the media pushes, it's what the political class pushes,

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Speaker 1: and it always only goes in one direction.

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Speaker 3: The logic is also nonsensical.

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Speaker 2: I mean, we are currently funding to the tune of

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Speaker 2: hundreds of billions of dollars the war in Ukraine, which

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Speaker 2: is killed probably between three to three hundred and fifty

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Speaker 2: thousand Russian soldiers. So by this logic, let's say that

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Speaker 2: Russia where to use this logic, what could they say?

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Speaker 2: They're like, well, the US backed, you know, US linked

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Speaker 2: Ukrainian government is killing our soldiers with their weapons. Actually,

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Speaker 2: the link is probably even more direct because the Pentagon

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Speaker 2: quite literally runs the Ukrainian military ops and in a

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Speaker 2: similar situation, we can't control everything the Ukrainian military does,

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Speaker 2: or maybe we can, but let's say that we can't

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Speaker 2: in that at least in that instance. As we have

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Speaker 2: seen them conduct attacks deep inside of Russian territory elsewhere,

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Speaker 2: terrorist attacks, assassinations inside of Moscow, what does that mean?

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Speaker 2: Under that logic, they could bomb us, They could nuke us.

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Speaker 2: That's what they're and that's what the most belligerent people

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Speaker 2: inside of the Russian government are saying. They're like, how

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Speaker 2: can we do this? We're not going after the source.

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Speaker 2: Think about the logic of that. That means then that

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Speaker 2: we would be liable for every single one of our

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Speaker 2: allied governments that we supply with weapons for direct retaliation

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Speaker 2: against US. And in fact, that appears to be the

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Speaker 2: exact logic that these Iranian backed groups and the who

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Speaker 2: THEIS and others have been using to attack the US

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Speaker 2: military vis a vis it's a support for Israel. So

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Speaker 2: I again would just urge people, and everybody loves to

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Speaker 2: talk about Reagan, and let's let's take a step back

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Speaker 2: and think about what happened after the Bay Route bombing.

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Speaker 2: Against You know, number of our US service members were

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Speaker 2: killed there under his administration. You know what he did,

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Speaker 2: He pulled out. He said, at the end of the day,

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Speaker 2: it's not worth it. And there were a lot more

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Speaker 2: people who were killed in that attack in the nineteen

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Speaker 2: eighties than they were today. People, do you know, forget

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Speaker 2: some of the strategic actual fortitude that Reagan occasionally did

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Speaker 2: have in his foreign policy because he understood and assessed

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Speaker 2: that if I were to get into a deeper conflict here,

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Speaker 2: it would not be in our direct interest. We had

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Speaker 2: a direct guiding foreign policy at that time, which was

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Speaker 2: confrontation with the Soviet Union and with rollback, and he

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Speaker 2: determined that this was going to draw away from that goal.

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Speaker 2: And he had the fortitude to be able to understand that,

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Speaker 2: even in America's height of its military power, that we

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Speaker 2: cannot just simply have projection of force everywhere. And we're

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Speaker 2: a lot weaker today than they were in the nineteen eighties.

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Speaker 2: And yet here in Washington, that is an anathema. You know,

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Speaker 2: even Reagan's greatest defenders they kind of like like to

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Speaker 2: write off what happened in Lebanon. But in this particular case,

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Speaker 2: I would say let us call upon the wisdom of

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Speaker 2: Reagan understood that just because US service members have been

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Speaker 2: killed in this instance, it does not require us to

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Speaker 2: put even more in harm's way and to pour even

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Speaker 2: more you know, basically chasing throwing bad money after good money.

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Speaker 2: You can actually understand the root of the conflict, where

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Speaker 2: things are going, and very quickly surmise that what's happening

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Speaker 2: in Israel and Gaza is the center of gravity in

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Speaker 2: this conflict and now directly has pulled American service members.

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Speaker 2: The other thing that we forgot to mention Crystal is

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Speaker 2: yet right that the two US Navy Seals were killed.

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Speaker 2: But Michael Tracy actually reminded us this morning, don't forget

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Speaker 2: five Americans were also killed in a training exercise that

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Speaker 2: was directly linked to what was happening. And you know,

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Speaker 2: we can't forget their deaths either. They would not have

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Speaker 2: been in that area and conducting these kinds of training operations.

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Speaker 2: This was one of our most advanced elite area units,

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Speaker 2: presumably either training for hostage rescue or for some sort

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Speaker 2: of you know, conflict or in the region, and they

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Speaker 2: died in a nighttime exercise, right, you know, very very nearby.

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Speaker 2: So we have ten now basically who can be ascribed

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Speaker 2: to this. We have at least five who have been

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Speaker 2: directly killed now in combat, and we cannot forget that

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Speaker 2: and just use that as an excuse.

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Speaker 3: To ratchet up operations.

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Speaker 2: And I just love, you know, these GOP politicians like,

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Speaker 2: all right, we struck Tehran. Now, what what you think

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Speaker 2: everything's just going to go away? I mean, what's going

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Speaker 2: to happen?

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Speaker 3: You know? Way more?

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Speaker 2: And we just saw our air defense systems just just

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Speaker 2: failed in Jordan. Don't forget the Patriots did not shoot

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Speaker 2: down all those blistic missiles inside of Iraq. You are

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Speaker 2: consigning dozens, perhaps even hundreds more Americans to their death

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Speaker 2: in the immediate term as a result of this policy,

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Speaker 2: and nobody even talks about it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so a few other things I want to say

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Speaker 1: about this. I mean, first of all, just keep in

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Speaker 1: mind that some of these psychos, even immediately after October seventh,

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Speaker 1: they were ourd aging for war with Iran and beating

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Speaker 1: the war drums. They will use literally any excuse, whether

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Speaker 1: it's this or anything else, to call for direct war

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Speaker 1: with Iran. Number two, it's also worthy being in mind

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Speaker 1: that a broader Middle East conflagration that we are directly

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Speaker 1: involved in very much serves the interests of Netanyahu specifically, who,

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Speaker 1: as we've discussed at nauseum, is you know, on a

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Speaker 1: very shortly politically domestically, he's basically hated almost universally in Israel.

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Speaker 1: At this point, the only chance he has of holding

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Speaker 1: on to his grip on power is to extend the

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Speaker 1: war as long as possible, to expand the war in

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Speaker 1: order to try to claim more military victories, since, if

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Speaker 1: we're being honest, their war on Hamas has been basically

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Speaker 1: a failure. I mean, they haven't gotten the top leadership

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Speaker 1: they have. There was a Wall Street Journal report that

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Speaker 1: they have something like eighty percent of even the tunnel

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Speaker 1: network in the Gaza Strip is still intact. The number

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Speaker 1: of fighters that they've been able to take out is

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Speaker 1: woefully you know, small compared to the total number of

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Speaker 1: Hamas fighters that are there in the Gaza Strip. All

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Speaker 1: they've been able to do is effectively, you know, destroy

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Speaker 1: civil life and make life a living hell for every

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Speaker 1: one of the two point two million human beings who

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Speaker 1: live in the Gaza Strip. So he needs military victories.

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Speaker 1: That's why they're looking towards Lebanon. That's why they're looking

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Speaker 1: towards this broader war because not only his interests, but

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Speaker 1: as a fantastic Haretz analysis went through and the interest

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Speaker 1: of everyone who was in power on October seventh and

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Speaker 1: oversaw these security and intelligence failures that led to this

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Speaker 1: you know, horrific attack going forward and the failed response,

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Speaker 1: all of their political heads are on the chopping block.

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Speaker 1: So every one of them has, even the so called

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Speaker 1: moderates that are part of this coalition, have an interest

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Speaker 1: in keeping this thing going and expanding it and drawing

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Speaker 1: us directly into it. It's always important to keep in

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Speaker 1: mind the motivations that these key players have as we

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Speaker 1: move forward. And you know, the last thing I'll say

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Speaker 1: before we move on to Trump's statement is sadly, just

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Speaker 1: as this attack and the deaths of these US service

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Speaker 1: members were both predictable and preventable, if we continue in

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Speaker 1: this direction, there will be more deaths. I mean the

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Speaker 1: number of attacks that have already occurred. There was a

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Speaker 1: previous incident, an attack on barracks in Iraq that we

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Speaker 1: were incredibly fortunate that basically like the munition didn't explode,

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Speaker 1: and so those service members got off with relatively minor injuries, which,

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Speaker 1: by the way, you know, the US government has been

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Speaker 1: dramatically downplaying, Oh, it's just a little traumatic brain injury,

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Speaker 1: don't worry about it, as if that's no big deal.

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Speaker 1: But we are incredibly fortunate up to this point that

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Speaker 1: there weren't more lives lost of US service members. So sadly,

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Speaker 1: there's just no doubt even if we continue in this

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Speaker 1: direction of unconditional support for Israel and this little tit

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Speaker 1: for tat without going directly at Iran, there will almost

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Speaker 1: certainly be more US service members who lose ose their

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Speaker 1: lives as a result of Joe Biden not wanting to

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Speaker 1: stand up to Israel and fully, fully, unconditionally backing what

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Speaker 1: they are doing in the Gaza strip, shipping the bombs,

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Speaker 1: expediting the bombs, providing them with diplomatic cover, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: Let me go ahead and put up on the screen.

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Speaker 1: Trump's reaction, of course, he's jumping on this and taking

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Speaker 1: full advantage as he possibly can politically. In a very

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Speaker 1: Trumpian statement, this is like it was a three part

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Speaker 1: thread on True's social This was the second part, which

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Speaker 1: was sort of the most interesting or critical. He says

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Speaker 1: three years ago Iran was weak, broke, and totally under control.

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Speaker 1: Thanks to my maximum pressure policy. The Iranian regime could

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Speaker 1: barely scrape two dollars together to fund their terrorist proxies.

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Speaker 1: Then Joe Biden came in and gave around billions of dollars,

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Speaker 1: which the regime has used to spread bloodshed and carnage

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Speaker 1: around the Middle East. This attack would never have happened

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Speaker 1: if I was president, not even a chance. Just like

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Speaker 1: the Iranian back to Maas attack on Israel would never

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Speaker 1: have happened, The war in Ukraine would never have happened,

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Speaker 1: and we would right now have peace throughout the world. Instead,

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Speaker 1: we are on the brink of World War three. Talk

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Speaker 1: about alternative facts and alternative history. I mean very likely

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Speaker 1: Trump's policy versus visa the Israel would be basically identical

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Speaker 1: to Joe Biden, perhaps without the moral hand ringing, the

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Speaker 1: feckless moral hanging hand ringing that you get occasionally from

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Speaker 1: the Biden administration. So the idea that we wouldn't be

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Speaker 1: still facing these attacks from various militias in the region,

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Speaker 1: I think is pretty fanciable.

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Speaker 3: I will at least give Trump this.

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Speaker 2: He didn't call for war with Iron, so I'm going

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Speaker 2: to call it a net benefit for me, so like,

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Speaker 2: at least he hasn't come to that. And I've seen

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Speaker 2: Vivik Ramaswami, Tucker Carlson, others issue very forceful criticism of

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Speaker 2: some of the people who are calling for it. I

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Speaker 2: will say, politically, I've always said this, It is the

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Speaker 2: greatest talking point in the world for him to just

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Speaker 2: be like, it didn't happen under me, and it's happening

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Speaker 2: under Biden. So you can definitely be assured that that

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Speaker 2: will be that will be featured in debates, campaign commercials.

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Speaker 3: And others for a return to normalcy.

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Speaker 2: Even if it may not be true, even if what

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Speaker 2: he would have done, you know, if he were in

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Speaker 2: the White House or not, but he can have the

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Speaker 2: statement of, well, it would never.

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Speaker 3: Have happened if I was still the president.

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Speaker 2: So anyway, Yeah, I wanted to fly that in particular

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Speaker 2: because electorally, let's say that foreign policy does become a

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Speaker 2: deciding factor in the election, or instead of foreign policy,

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Speaker 2: think of it like the withdrawal from Afghanistan. The withrawal

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Speaker 2: from Afghanistan. Nobody really voted on the withdrawal from Afghanistan.

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Speaker 2: Nobody would even particularly say that's the number one reason.

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Speaker 2: But there was a feeling of chaos, malaise, and things

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Speaker 2: being out of control under Biden that led to the

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Speaker 2: initial approval rating that he had over fifty percent dip below.

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Speaker 2: So with this, I could see Trump trying to make

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Speaker 2: this as part of an overwhelming of an overall case.

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Speaker 2: The problem is, of course, if he's like, well, return

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Speaker 2: to normal, is that he can't himself be trying to

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Speaker 2: instill chaos. But there is you know, it could be

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Speaker 2: a potent talking point if Biden finds himself deep.

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Speaker 4: Enough listen Biden's support for Israel.

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Speaker 1: As we're going to talk to the mayor of Dearborn,

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Speaker 1: who's a Democrat who wouldn't even meet with his campaign

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Speaker 1: team because he's disgusted over biden support for what he

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Speaker 1: describes and what the UN has the ICJ has now

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Speaker 1: said is plausibly a genocide that we are very much

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Speaker 1: complicit in. So I just saw a poll that came out.

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Speaker 1: Biden's approval rating among eighteen to twenty nine year olds

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Speaker 1: is twenty seven percent. Twenty seven percent. So already this

436
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:26,159
Speaker 1: is an electoral disaster. I mean, that's the least of

437
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,680
Speaker 1: our concerns, right now, but it's already an electoral disaster.

438
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:34,679
Speaker 1: You continue with the escalations, you continue allowing you as

439
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,720
Speaker 1: service members to be killed in their beds in the

440
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:40,760
Speaker 1: Middle East, in countries that the American people don't even

441
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:46,240
Speaker 1: know we still have service members in. Yeah, it's absolutely,

442
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,240
Speaker 1: it's absolutely a disaster. The last thing before we move

443
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:53,600
Speaker 1: on to what's going on with UNRWA eight suspension, I

444
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:55,560
Speaker 1: just want to give people the numbers so you understand

445
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:58,160
Speaker 1: when I say this is directly linked to the policy

446
00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:02,040
Speaker 1: with Israel. These attacks are directly correlated to it, because

447
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 1: we can see in the numbers. This was highlighted by

448
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:06,359
Speaker 1: front of the show doctor Tree de Parsi, who said

449
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 1: there were about sixty attacks by these type of milicias

450
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,680
Speaker 1: against US troops between January twenty twenty one and March

451
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three. So that's over basically a two year

452
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:19,520
Speaker 1: period after the Gaza War. Just since October seventh, there

453
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,800
Speaker 1: have been more than one hundred and sixty attacks, except

454
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,560
Speaker 1: during these six days when there was a ceasefire in Gaza,

455
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:32,440
Speaker 1: then the attacks completely stopped. We know what the answer

456
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 1: is to bring safety insecurity to our service members in

457
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,760
Speaker 1: the region. Not to mention to you know, to deal

458
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,360
Speaker 1: with the humanity of people in Gaza, by the way,

459
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:44,680
Speaker 1: also the ultimate long term security of citizens of Israel.

460
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 1: We know what the answer is, but our insane foreign policy,

461
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:54,920
Speaker 1: completely unmoored from reality, leads them to take actions that

462
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:58,119
Speaker 1: they don't even think are going to succeed. You know,

463
00:23:58,160 --> 00:23:59,720
Speaker 1: That's what the other thing I keep thinking about is

464
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:03,159
Speaker 1: our Like we have them admitting Biden admitting that he

465
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 1: knew the you know, Red Sea attacks on the Houthi residy,

466
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 1: you knew they weren't going to work, but they were

467
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 1: going to continue anyway.

468
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:10,119
Speaker 4: It's like, then what the hell are we doing?

469
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:14,000
Speaker 1: We had Tony Blinken admitting there's no military solution to Hamas,

470
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 1: Then what the hell are we supporting?

471
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 4: And it's the same thing. It doesn't need a logic.

472
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,360
Speaker 1: They just escalate because they think that's the thing that

473
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,240
Speaker 1: people expect them to do. And we've got psychos like

474
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:27,439
Speaker 1: Lindsay Graham and co. Out there pushing them to go

475
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:32,120
Speaker 1: to war with Iran. It is an unbelievably dangerous situation,

476
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:37,320
Speaker 1: absolutely right, All right, let's go ahead and move on

477
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 1: to another huge story here. So on the very day

478
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 1: that the ICJ ruled Israel is plausibly committing a genocide

479
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 1: eating the Gaza strip and you know, compelled them to

480
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:56,920
Speaker 1: take actions to end those assaults, which are contributing to

481
00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 1: the potential genocide conditions on that very day, and that

482
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:05,959
Speaker 1: timing is not an accident. Israel released intelligence to the

483
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 1: US that twelve employees of the UNRWA, that's a UN

484
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:16,119
Speaker 1: refugee agency that deals with Palestinian aid were involved in

485
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,959
Speaker 1: some way in the October seventh attacks.

486
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:20,119
Speaker 4: Let's put this up on the screen.

487
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:25,680
Speaker 1: This allegation, the details of which have not been released

488
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 1: to the public, by the way, And you know, maybe

489
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:30,119
Speaker 1: it's true, maybe it's not, but we certainly know the

490
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 1: Israeli government has been caught lying many times in the past,

491
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:33,880
Speaker 1: including in the context.

492
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 4: Of October seventh.

493
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 1: Those allegations have led eight countries and the US SO

494
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 1: nine countries total to stop funding that critical UN AID

495
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 1: agency in Gaza. The numbers I saw, there's something like

496
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 1: thirteen thousand UNRWA staffers in Gaza. Twelve of them are

497
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 1: accused of being somehow involved in October seventh.

498
00:25:58,160 --> 00:25:59,639
Speaker 4: Put this next one up on the screen.

499
00:25:59,680 --> 00:25:59,920
Speaker 5: Action.

500
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 4: Those who were accused.

501
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 1: Have actually already been fired by the UNRWA. In addition,

502
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,119
Speaker 1: I think two of the dozen who were accused or

503
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:12,639
Speaker 1: actually have actually already been killed, but the others have

504
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:16,679
Speaker 1: been let go. And so at the very moment, Sager,

505
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 1: when the ICJ is saying, you have to allow in

506
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 1: more humanitarian aid, Gazans are starving, you have to end

507
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 1: the conditions that could be contributing to a genocide. On

508
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 1: that very day, the response from the US is to

509
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 1: cut the funding to the most essential aid organization in

510
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:41,359
Speaker 1: the Gaza strip, thereby further denying Palestinian's access to the

511
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,919
Speaker 1: basics of life that they are required, all because of

512
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 1: the allegations against a tiny, tiny, tiny, minuscule.

513
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 4: Fraction of the staffers there who are on the ground.

514
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, Israel and the UNRWA have always had a let's say,

515
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 2: a bad relationship, especially most recently between the UN and

516
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 2: the Human rights organization.

517
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 3: Their general allegation is about those twelve.

518
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:07,639
Speaker 2: There was also an interesting new piece It literally just

519
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 2: broke this morning, so I was just reading it right now,

520
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 2: Crystal from the Wall Street Journal, where they estimate the

521
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 2: Israeli shared with the Journal and claim that about ten

522
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 2: percent of its Gaza staff quote have ties to Islamist

523
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 2: militant groups. The thing is, though, is that as I

524
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,159
Speaker 2: began reading a much of this came down to like

525
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 2: guilt by association.

526
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 3: They shay that.

527
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:30,360
Speaker 2: Twelve hundred to twelve of the twelve hundred thousand employees

528
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 2: quote have links, and by links they just say that

529
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,959
Speaker 2: they have close relatives who belong to the militant groups.

530
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 3: This is part of the problem that I have.

531
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 2: With a lot of this is that look, look, you

532
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 2: can if these twelve people were involved in the attack,

533
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 2: obviously horrible, you should be fired, et cetera. But in general,

534
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,199
Speaker 2: there seems to be like a lack of reality about

535
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 2: who was governing the Gaza Strip.

536
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 3: It's obviously Hamas.

537
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 2: Also, guys, you can't be a member of a rival

538
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:03,439
Speaker 2: part in the Gaza Strip under the Hamas leadership and

539
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 2: not be targeted for death. It's kind of the same

540
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 2: thing that we could have said whenever we invited Iraq

541
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,640
Speaker 2: and we're like, oh, well, they were belonging.

542
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 3: To the Bath Party.

543
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:13,439
Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, but you had to belong to the

544
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:15,160
Speaker 2: Bath Party if you wanted to do the most basics

545
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 2: of civil government. Now know this is again according to

546
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 2: it is really intelligence estimate and more, I think it's

547
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:22,440
Speaker 2: probably almost certainly.

548
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 3: An attempt, you know, to try and to.

549
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 2: Cut off because the UNRWA has been such a vocal

550
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 2: and potent critic of Israel, and anytime you can try

551
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:35,399
Speaker 2: and to diminish the organization, especially in the eyes of

552
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 2: the West. The bigger problem that I see here is

553
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 2: that we just seem to be taking the Israeli's word

554
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 2: for it themselves, because the US and its statement did

555
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 2: not immediately say whether it had its own intelligence to

556
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 2: that effect. Furthermore, as I said, with this Wall Street

557
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 2: Journal report, it is relying entirely on Israeli military estimates,

558
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 2: which certainly could be true, but they need to declassify

559
00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 2: the intelligence share it with the world. I mean, you're

560
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 2: going to be going after the people who are the

561
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 2: only ones who are actually delivering humanitarian aid, well, then

562
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 2: you need to provide some evidence, you know, really to

563
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 2: that effect. So this is actually a very tried and

564
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 2: true strategy that we saw during the Iraq War and more,

565
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 2: and we're seeing the Israelies play it out here again.

566
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 2: And obviously it's to their domestic political benefit, Like let's

567
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 2: not forget that.

568
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I think there's a few things going on here.

569
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:27,480
Speaker 1: First of all, there's that high level like philosophical conflict

570
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 1: between Israel and the un RWA. The full name of

571
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 1: that agency is the United Nations Relief and Works Agency

572
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 1: for Palestine Refugees in the Near East. And so their

573
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 1: contention is basically like, by allowing Palestinians who were you know,

574
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 1: kicked off their land and multi generations of Palestinians to

575
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 1: continue to see themselves as refugees, it keeps them from

576
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 1: integrating into the surrounding communities and basically like giving up

577
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 1: their you know, claim to any sort of a state.

578
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 1: So that's the especially on the right, the philosophical opposition

579
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 1: to the UNRWA. That's so they're always looking for a

580
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 1: way to you know, attack them, undercut them, et cetera.

581
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 1: There's also the level of again it's not an accident

582
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 1: that these allegations were put out there and the US

583
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 1: funding cut on the very day of the ICJ ruling.

584
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 1: It's a classic distraction tactic as well, and you know,

585
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 1: the US news media immediately took it up. You know,

586
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 1: the the ICJ ruling, which is incredibly consequential, you know,

587
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 1: which basically sided with South Africa on every piece but

588
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 1: did stop short of calling directly for a ceasefire, although

589
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 1: it did say, hey, you've got to stop doing the

590
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 1: things that are creating the conditions that could plausibly be

591
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 1: a jedocide. That incredibly consequential ruling got buried in the

592
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:54,239
Speaker 1: Western press by these allegations about the the UNRWA, and

593
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 1: it also fits, you know, hand and glove with a

594
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 1: strategy they use. It's a meme at this point of

595
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,480
Speaker 1: like anyone who disagrees with them or that they don't

596
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 1: like is hamas. You know, the UN is hamas, the

597
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 1: hospital workers are hamas, the schools are hamas, the premature

598
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 1: babies that were left to die or apparently hamas. So

599
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 1: anyone that South Africa was they they at the ICJ

600
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 1: argue South Africa's basically Hamas are doing Hamas is bidding.

601
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 1: So that is their you know, their strategy. And listen again,

602
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 1: I don't I don't put it totally out of the

603
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 1: question that with a large agency of thirteen thousand people

604
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 1: that there aren't a few that had some hand in

605
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 1: October se.

606
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 4: I don't put that out of the question.

607
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 3: That's right.

608
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 1: The answer to that isn't if that is indeed what happened,

609
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 1: which we should not take these relies at their word

610
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 1: on anything, but if that is indeed something that happened, okay,

611
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 1: you fire them, You weed out.

612
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 4: The bad apples, and you move forward.

613
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 1: Because the mission of the UNRWA has never been more

614
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 1: critical than right now, when you have half of all

615
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 1: people in the Gaza Strip starving, when you have eighty

616
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 1: percent going regularly with on a single meal a day,

617
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 1: you have effectively the entire population completely displaced, living in squalor,

618
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 1: communicable diseases spreading like wildfire, no sanitation, no clean drinking water,

619
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 1: no basic medical supplies. Okay, their mission has never been

620
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 1: more critical. And so again to see the response of

621
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 1: the US on the day when this spicyj says they

622
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 1: may be committing a genocide and pointing routinely to the

623
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 1: humanitarian conditions. This is really at the center of that ruling,

624
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 1: pointing routinely to the humanitarian conditions facing Palestinians in the

625
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 1: Gaza Strip, and our response is, let's make those humanitarian

626
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 1: conditions even worse because of some allegations that the Israelis

627
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 1: have put in front of us. I mean, it's just

628
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: it's outrageous, it's absolutely outrageous.

629
00:32:58,360 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 4: There's no other word for it.

630
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you flagged one of our producers an interesting

631
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 2: segment that came from within the Israeli government that kind

632
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 2: of specifically talks about targeting you in OURDWA.

633
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 1: Only days ago, so earlier this month, just on January fourth,

634
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 1: a former Israeli official was basically testifying in front of

635
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 1: the Panesse and we can put this up on the screen.

636
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 1: I'll just paraphrase what she's saying here in Hebrew. But

637
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 1: she directly targets the un RWA and says it will

638
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 1: be impossible to win the war if the un r

639
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 1: WA is not destroyed. And her point is basically sort

640
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 1: of like what I was saying. Oh, well, they they

641
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 1: create and propagate this idea that leads to the creation

642
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 1: of more and more terrorists.

643
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 4: Well, what is that idea?

644
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 1: The idea is that Palestinians have a legitimate rights and

645
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 1: legitimate rights to statehood. Whereas you know, people like this

646
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:58,320
Speaker 1: and many others ideologically believe that even the sort of

647
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 1: like theoretical concept of the UNRWA leads Palestinians to continue

648
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 1: to hold out hope that they want to see them lose.

649
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,880
Speaker 1: They want to see them abandon that hope. And so

650
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 1: it's very noteworthy that you have just earlier this month,

651
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 1: not very long ago, this official testifying before the parliament,

652
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 1: before the Israeli Parliament, saying we have to destroy the UNRWA,

653
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 1: and then lo and behold, they roll out these allegations

654
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:27,839
Speaker 1: that lead to the US and a bunch of other

655
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 1: countries cutting the funding and very much threatening the future

656
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,839
Speaker 1: survival of the UNRWA. Again, Saga at a time when

657
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 1: its mission has never been more vital and never been

658
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 1: more critical.

659
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,240
Speaker 2: There's also been some major domestic turmoil inside of Israel

660
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:45,800
Speaker 2: where there's a group of protesters who are actually blocking

661
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:48,359
Speaker 2: any humanitarian aid from entering the Gaza strip.

662
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 3: Let's put this up there on the screen.

663
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 2: This is from the tides of Israel, they say, for

664
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:54,920
Speaker 2: a second day in a row, protesters are blocking aid

665
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 2: reaching Gaza from Israel, including some families of hostages at

666
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 2: the Karamshalo and border crossing, urging the government to not

667
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 2: allow any supplies in until captives held by the terrorists

668
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:09,720
Speaker 2: are freed. So it's interesting to me, Crystal, because there

669
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 2: are ceasefire protesters in Israel who I've watched get cracked.

670
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:14,880
Speaker 3: Down upon almost immediately.

671
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:17,719
Speaker 2: But these protesters who have been blocking eight have been

672
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 2: very much allowed. And I think it obviously fits with

673
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:25,759
Speaker 2: the general orientation of the Netanyahu government and of the

674
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 2: different ways in which they're pulled, where if you're against

675
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 2: the war, or even really if you're against a war strategy,

676
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:34,839
Speaker 2: not even against the war itself, then they are very

677
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,879
Speaker 2: willing to crack down, to use the state, to throw

678
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:39,839
Speaker 2: you in jail and to break it up. But if

679
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:41,880
Speaker 2: you are I wouldn't even say pro war, but if

680
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:44,880
Speaker 2: you were like pro the aims of the right wing government,

681
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 2: which does certainly advance them, then they allow it to happen.

682
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 2: It's one of the most classic examples of like using

683
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 2: the laws selectively that we watch happen domestically. And it

684
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 2: is clear too about which message that they want to

685
00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 2: allow to propagate inside of their media for their domestic populous.

686
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that's absolutely correct.

687
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 1: So some of the family members of hostages were involved

688
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 1: in these protests to cut off aid. Others, as I

689
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 1: know you guys covered last week, stormed the knethe and

690
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:20,480
Speaker 1: are furious because it has become incredibly apparent and undeniable

691
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 1: that the aims of the war are inconsistent with the

692
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:29,319
Speaker 1: aims of bringing the hostages home. I mean, it's just

693
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,359
Speaker 1: sort of basic logic that if you're bombing the hell

694
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 1: out of a place, you're putting all the people who

695
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 1: are there at risk.

696
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 4: The only time they have.

697
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:43,399
Speaker 1: Had any success at bringing hostages back was during that

698
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:47,360
Speaker 1: brief ceasefire, those six days of a brief ceasefire.

699
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:48,479
Speaker 4: That was the only time.

700
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:50,759
Speaker 1: And in fact, you know, of course, they murdered some

701
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:54,360
Speaker 1: of their own hostages because they thought they were Palestinians

702
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:56,279
Speaker 1: in spite of the fact that they were, you know,

703
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:58,399
Speaker 1: trying to surrender and had their shirts off to show

704
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:01,319
Speaker 1: they weren't a threat, et cetera, et cetera. So the

705
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:05,360
Speaker 1: capability of having the intelligence or the ability or the

706
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 1: wherewithal or whatever to go in and militarily get these

707
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 1: hostages out, that has not worked whatsoever. So you know,

708
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 1: that continues to be a pressure point for the net

709
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 1: Yahoo government. I'm sure you saw Soccar. There's some new

710
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:25,240
Speaker 1: supposed potential hostage deal and there's a potential two month

711
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 1: long ceasefire that is being in some stages of negotiation.

712
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:33,319
Speaker 1: We'll see whether that comes to fruition or not. But

713
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:35,359
Speaker 1: I think part of the reason why that would even

714
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,400
Speaker 1: be on the table is certainly because of the domestic

715
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:43,400
Speaker 1: upset within Israel. I also think that the ICJ ruling

716
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 1: I do think that is putting pressure on the Israeli

717
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 1: government because they, you know, could become a pariahs state

718
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:53,360
Speaker 1: the way that South Africa did. This is the first

719
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 1: time that the word genocide by any sort of international

720
00:37:56,560 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 1: body has even been, you know, associated with Israel. What's soever,

721
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 1: you have seen the way that some of their comments

722
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 1: have been, at times moderated. We're hearing less, for example,

723
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 1: about all the ethnic cleansing plans, although we're starting to

724
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:13,879
Speaker 1: hear more about it as they see that the US

725
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:16,840
Speaker 1: is going to back them no matter what. But also critically,

726
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 1: some of the countries that they were reportedly going to,

727
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:23,400
Speaker 1: like the Congo to say, hey, will you take in

728
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:26,839
Speaker 1: these Palestine refugees, they're now saying absolutely not, because they

729
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 1: don't want to aid and abt what has been deemed

730
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:34,359
Speaker 1: plausibly genocide by an international body. So those are some

731
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,959
Speaker 1: of the pressure points that are leading to maybe some

732
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:40,799
Speaker 1: sort of renewed deal with regard to the hostages and

733
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 1: some temporary cessation of their assault on Gaza.

734
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 4: With regard to the.

735
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 1: Response from the US to the ICJ's ruling, I mean,

736
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 1: it's just they continue to completely gaslight about what the

737
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,880
Speaker 1: International Court of Justice is even said. Let's take a

738
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 1: listen to this is John Kirby, who has you know,

739
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:06,760
Speaker 1: really won some awards here in terms of his shameless

740
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:10,239
Speaker 1: level of propaganda getting asked about that ruling and the

741
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 1: US response.

742
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 4: Let's take a listen to some of that.

743
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:21,359
Speaker 6: Our disagreement over founding claim of the allegation causes any

744
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 6: permanent damage to the bilateral.

745
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 7: Relationship with South Africa.

746
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 6: We just happened to disagree on that point, but we're

747
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 6: also going to keep working to on that relationship as

748
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:31,800
Speaker 6: we do many others.

749
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 7: So you fundamentally believe the US.

750
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,399
Speaker 8: They claim that the US is supporting a genocidal state,

751
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:40,920
Speaker 8: that is not going to impact.

752
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 6: Relations I don't believe I heard that from South Africa.

753
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:48,399
Speaker 6: South Africa filed a case based on allegations that they

754
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:52,320
Speaker 6: believe genocide was being conducted by Israel in Gaza. I

755
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 6: don't believe it was directed at US at all. We

756
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 6: simply have said consistently we find that that that claim

757
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 6: is unfounded. And you know, the court also did not

758
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 6: find Israel guilty of GENI side.

759
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 1: The court did not find Israel guilty of genocide, he

760
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 1: says there, which is incredible gaslighting because they were not

761
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 1: ruling on the merits at this point, something he surely

762
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 1: knows that decision will take years of evaluating the evidence. However,

763
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:25,879
Speaker 1: in that ruling, which I read every word of, they

764
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:31,440
Speaker 1: basically cited with South Africa on every critical claim, including

765
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:38,279
Speaker 1: citing some specific language of pop Israeli officials, including President Hertzog,

766
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 1: as being potential incitement to genocide. And so, you know,

767
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 1: even though the US is not directly named in this

768
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 1: case at the ICJ, it's very clear our direct complicity,

769
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 1: which creates was just put it mildly some challenges for

770
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 1: US officials and certainly for you know, propaganda spinmasters like

771
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:01,720
Speaker 1: John Kirby in terms of how we approach it, because

772
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:03,920
Speaker 1: this is an administration soccer as you know, that has

773
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 1: loved to talk.

774
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:06,440
Speaker 4: A big game about the quote unquote.

775
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 1: International rules of you know, international rules based order when

776
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:13,840
Speaker 1: it serves their interests and when it goes against the

777
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:17,480
Speaker 1: baddy countries like Russia that we don't like. But suddenly

778
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:19,840
Speaker 1: we see not that this was any surprise, and not

779
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:22,319
Speaker 1: that we've been consistent in the past, but there is

780
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:27,560
Speaker 1: a giant Israel shaped exception to any sort of international

781
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 1: rules based order as backed by the United States of America.

782
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:33,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean they push it against Putin. They're like, oh,

783
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 2: we want to make them an international para, and now

784
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:38,400
Speaker 2: all of that is completely out the window. It is

785
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 2: embarrassing for them almost certainly. And you're right, you know,

786
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 2: in terms of the way that they parse the language

787
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 2: they want. They want international institutions to be convenient for

788
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:50,000
Speaker 2: their foreign policy whenever it aligns, but then disregard it.

789
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:52,279
Speaker 2: It's like, guys, that's not how it's supposed to work.

790
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:55,799
Speaker 2: Like you either agree or not, especially in this case

791
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:58,799
Speaker 2: because the US is party to the ICJ. But yeah,

792
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:00,399
Speaker 2: Ryan did a great job, by the way of breaking

793
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 2: it down for everybody with the PARSI, the actual thing.

794
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:04,840
Speaker 2: I encourage people to go watch that if you're interested

795
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 2: in the details. Any last thoughts on the ICJ, Crystal

796
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 2: before we go on to Pelosi.

797
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, the last thing I'll say is one, it's interesting

798
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 1: the way that the US media spun the ICJ ruling,

799
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 1: because I think you and I both to be curious

800
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:21,080
Speaker 1: your thoughts as well. When we first we're reading the

801
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:24,320
Speaker 1: US media reports before we actually could read the text

802
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 1: of the ruling, I was like, and I tried to,

803
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:29,279
Speaker 1: you know, sort of like have it both ways. Kind

804
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:30,879
Speaker 1: of a win for Israel, it's kind of a win

805
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:33,840
Speaker 1: for South Africa. They're clearly, you know, politically trying to

806
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 1: maintain their legitimacy. When I actually read through the text,

807
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:40,799
Speaker 1: of course I wanted to see them go further and

808
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 1: call for a full and complete cease fire. But it

809
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:48,560
Speaker 1: was a much more dramatic loss for Israel then I

810
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 1: would have thought based on the US media reports, because

811
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 1: as I said, you know, as they go through plane

812
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 1: by claim from South Africa. I mean, first of all,

813
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:02,760
Speaker 1: on all the technical legal matters, do they have standing,

814
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:03,919
Speaker 1: is there a dispute, etc.

815
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:05,359
Speaker 4: They agree with.

816
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:09,400
Speaker 1: South Africa in terms of concern for the humanitarian situation

817
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:12,040
Speaker 1: and buying Israel's bs about oh, we're shipping in plenty

818
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 1: of eid, etc.

819
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 4: They don't buy that.

820
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:16,919
Speaker 1: And then as I mentioned, you know, they cite specific

821
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:22,240
Speaker 1: comments from yo of Galot, the Defense minister, the ones

822
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 1: about you know, it's a siege, we're dealing with human animals,

823
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 1: will treat them as such those comments from him, they

824
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:31,480
Speaker 1: cite the words of Israeli President Isaac Hertzog saying there

825
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:35,720
Speaker 1: are no uninvolved civilians, and they cite another Israeli minister

826
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:37,919
Speaker 1: in a post that he put on Twitter that hadn't

827
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:40,840
Speaker 1: even really come to my attention before, but also spoke

828
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:43,759
Speaker 1: to the sort of complete siege conditions that they were

829
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:47,799
Speaker 1: subjecting all Palestinians in the Gaza strip too. So as

830
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 1: you go through, it seems very much that they gave

831
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:53,880
Speaker 1: a lot more credence to the South African side and

832
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 1: for them to say, yes, we do believe plausibly that

833
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:01,239
Speaker 1: these conditions could be contributing to Jenis. I saw one

834
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 1: analysis that said it would be difficult for them to

835
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 1: call for a ceasefire because they have no power over

836
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:11,040
Speaker 1: Hamasmas is a state actor. They're not party to the

837
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:14,239
Speaker 1: ICJ and the Genocide Convention, so all they can do

838
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:18,240
Speaker 1: is compel Israeli actions, and they're telling them to stop

839
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:21,279
Speaker 1: all of the things that are creating these conditions a

840
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:25,239
Speaker 1: plausible genocide. So it does go a bit further than

841
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:28,759
Speaker 1: I initially thought based on the media reports.

842
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:32,840
Speaker 4: And the other thing is Netanyahu is clearly.

843
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 1: Furious about the ruling and attacked in all the ways

844
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:38,880
Speaker 1: you would think s anti Semitic, blah blah blah. But

845
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 1: also you know, as they move forward, if they continue

846
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:45,839
Speaker 1: to prosecute this war in this fashion, they do find

847
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 1: themselves at risk of it'll take a while years down

848
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:53,440
Speaker 1: the road, but actually having been found to be committing genocide.

849
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 1: The last thing that Saga I found incredibly significant is

850
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 1: just how nearly unanimous it was. There is no way

851
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 1: in hell I thought the America and judge was going

852
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 1: to go along with a ruling like this. No way

853
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:06,360
Speaker 1: in hell. You even had the Israeli ad hoc judge

854
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 1: that they chose going along with pieces of this ruling.

855
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:12,279
Speaker 1: And there was just one judge from your GODA, which

856
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:13,520
Speaker 1: I don't know what was going on with her, but

857
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:16,239
Speaker 1: who objected to the whole thing. Everybody else was pretty

858
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 1: much unanimous. So that's the other reason I thought this

859
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:23,640
Speaker 1: was actually quite significant, because I figured they just played politics.

860
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:26,799
Speaker 1: I figured they'd find some technical loophole. Like I said,

861
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:29,440
Speaker 1: there's no way I thought the American judge would go

862
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:32,280
Speaker 1: along with the ruling saying yes, they're plausibly committing genocide.

863
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 1: But that's exactly what we saw, so it actually is

864
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 1: kind of astonishing.

865
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:36,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, I actually agree with that.

866
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:38,799
Speaker 2: I actually thought that the ruling was good because what

867
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:41,360
Speaker 2: the ruling did is it said that war is acceptable.

868
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:43,879
Speaker 2: We are not going to call on the ability to

869
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:45,640
Speaker 2: not wage war. What we're saying is that the way

870
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:49,239
Speaker 2: you are waging war is contravening to the articles that

871
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:52,880
Speaker 2: we have under the ICJ, and they cite specific instances,

872
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:55,479
Speaker 2: and they also were like, you can continue to conduct war.

873
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 2: It falls in line with the general theory of you

874
00:45:58,239 --> 00:45:59,839
Speaker 2: have a right to self defense, you have a right

875
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 2: to go after people who have attacked you, but that

876
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:06,440
Speaker 2: there are lines within that the general conduct of nations

877
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:08,799
Speaker 2: that are party to the ICJ. And then let's even

878
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:10,279
Speaker 2: take the ICG out of it and just see the

879
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:13,040
Speaker 2: general Western consensus whenever you have a war, advanced Western

880
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 2: style military that's going after a paramilitary group, a terrorist organization,

881
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 2: or insurgent group in the way that you could even

882
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:24,360
Speaker 2: compare how different Israel's military response has been from the

883
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 2: way that the United States conductive self during the counterinsurgency

884
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:30,160
Speaker 2: campaign in Iraq, in Afghanistan. Just the level of care

885
00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:32,840
Speaker 2: for humanitarian for civilians and others. I'm not going to

886
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:34,640
Speaker 2: say we're perfect, but I think you can compare the

887
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:37,040
Speaker 2: two and say that they're dramatically different. My point only

888
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:39,680
Speaker 2: just being there, that what the ICJ ruling said is

889
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:41,400
Speaker 2: you have a right to conduct war, you have a

890
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 2: right to defend yourself. The way that you have done this,

891
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:48,480
Speaker 2: combined with the statements of many of your gubinatorial ministers,

892
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 2: has been such that it seems you plausibly could be

893
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 2: committing ethnic cleansing and or genocide. And so if you

894
00:46:57,080 --> 00:46:59,840
Speaker 2: want to avoid such charges, you should change the way

895
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,399
Speaker 2: that you conduct the war. So in that, I again, look,

896
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:05,720
Speaker 2: I generally believe international law and all that is fake because,

897
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 2: as you said, how can they enforce it. Also, HAMAS

898
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:12,760
Speaker 2: is a non governmental organized it's a non state actor.

899
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:14,799
Speaker 2: It literally is not party to any of this, So

900
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 2: any of it doesn't matter per se. But if we

901
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 2: understand it just in the way that Western militaries behave

902
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:23,799
Speaker 2: and have behaved in the post World War two era

903
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:26,760
Speaker 2: and such the ICJ Geneva Conventions and all of those

904
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:29,759
Speaker 2: were agreed upon amongst each other about this is kind

905
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:32,040
Speaker 2: of the way that we can conduct war. Yes, total

906
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:34,000
Speaker 2: war is a different story, like we were used to

907
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 2: be in and if we ever find ourselves in such

908
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 2: a one such again, then the probably won't be abiding this.

909
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:40,640
Speaker 2: But within this general framework, this is how we act

910
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:42,920
Speaker 2: and sow the US you know, held the Russian military,

911
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:46,840
Speaker 2: for example, to this standard whenever they're conducting war in Ukraine.

912
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 2: Then we can see clearly this is outside of that realm.

913
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:51,480
Speaker 2: So within that I thought it was actually quite a

914
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:55,840
Speaker 2: good ruling. And I also think to bolster what you said, Crystal,

915
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:59,319
Speaker 2: is that this is going to dramatically increase pressure for

916
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 2: that CEASEPOT because in Netanyahu and the rest of the

917
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 2: Israeli public are not stupid. They are a small country.

918
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 2: They rely upon the behest of international trade. And if

919
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:15,879
Speaker 2: you reduce the amount of international trade that you're able

920
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:17,960
Speaker 2: to conduct, and you know, you've got all these great

921
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:20,480
Speaker 2: technology companies in Tel Aviv and all that, you've got

922
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:22,319
Speaker 2: to sell it to somebody, You've got to license it

923
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:26,360
Speaker 2: to somebody. That's largely the backbone of the entire Israeli economy,

924
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:28,719
Speaker 2: on top of all of the imports that make Tel

925
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:31,719
Speaker 2: Aviv and Israel function as a nation state. If you

926
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:34,759
Speaker 2: reduce that even by fifteen percent, imagine, imagine if the

927
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 2: US economy contracted by fifteen percent, or our imports went

928
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:40,000
Speaker 2: down by fIF it'd be a catastrophe for the way

929
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:42,000
Speaker 2: that we live our overall life. I think it will

930
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 2: dramatically increase pressure for a two months cease fire. I

931
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:46,960
Speaker 2: talked about a bit with last time with Ryan two

932
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:48,359
Speaker 2: and I was like, look, I think you know, at

933
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:51,560
Speaker 2: this stage in the game, especially given the inability for

934
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:54,960
Speaker 2: them so far to achieve their military aims and others,

935
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:57,279
Speaker 2: if the guns stopped firing for two months, it is

936
00:48:57,440 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 2: very likely they are not turning on in the same way. Again,

937
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:01,799
Speaker 2: I'm not going to say there will be no military action,

938
00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:04,520
Speaker 2: but the same way that they conduct themselves. Just given

939
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:07,280
Speaker 2: the amount of international pressure, other this sigh of relief

940
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:09,560
Speaker 2: from the West and others, and the eventual pressure that

941
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:13,279
Speaker 2: would build up to that point, it's extraordinarily unlikely that

942
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 2: they can continue. But maybe that's why they don't want

943
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:16,600
Speaker 2: to agree. They just want to muscle through and just

944
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 2: keep going. I'm not sure what they're going to do.

945
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:21,920
Speaker 1: I don't need I'm not sure either. Just a couple

946
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:24,120
Speaker 1: more points on that. I thought Ryan made a really

947
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:28,240
Speaker 1: good point about the no enforcement mechanism piece, which is true,

948
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:30,840
Speaker 1: which We've said a number of times, which is accurate.

949
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:33,720
Speaker 1: But I mean, it's the same thing as our Supreme

950
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:36,840
Speaker 1: Court doesn't have an enforcement mechanism, which is kind of

951
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:38,600
Speaker 1: a live issue right now with what's.

952
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:39,440
Speaker 4: Going on at the border.

953
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:43,759
Speaker 1: But the reason it has power is because people give

954
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:48,240
Speaker 1: it credence and power. And so that's the whole idea

955
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:52,400
Speaker 1: of legitimacy of the ICJ and these other international bodies

956
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 1: is do people pay attention to the rulings, do they

957
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:58,160
Speaker 1: abide by them, or do they thumb their nose, Because yeah,

958
00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:01,719
Speaker 1: if the whole with the US and our European allies

959
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:04,960
Speaker 1: and Israel thumbs our nose and says, okay, you think

960
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:07,920
Speaker 1: that they're plausibly committing genocide and you've compelled them, you know,

961
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:10,799
Speaker 1: to do all these certain things to prevent those conditions

962
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:13,560
Speaker 1: and also, by the way, to go after some of

963
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:17,600
Speaker 1: these ministers who are inciting genocide. If we just say no,

964
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:21,359
Speaker 1: then yeah, there's no enforcement mechanism, there's no legitimacy. It's

965
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:24,719
Speaker 1: the exact same thing with our Supreme Court. The thing

966
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:27,120
Speaker 1: that gives it legitimacy is that we all agree it

967
00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 1: has legitimacy and we pay attention to its rulings, So

968
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:32,799
Speaker 1: I think it's important to keep that in mind with

969
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:35,919
Speaker 1: regard to the quote unquote lack of enforcement mechanism. There's

970
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:39,680
Speaker 1: going to be a UN Security Council likely vote on

971
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:42,400
Speaker 1: this this week. We'll see what the US does. But

972
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 1: you know, everybody should be incredibly discouraged by the fact

973
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:48,680
Speaker 1: that our immediate reaction was to cut the very aid

974
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:53,759
Speaker 1: that the ICJ says should be increasing. Our response was,

975
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:56,480
Speaker 1: how about we cut the funding and actually decrease the

976
00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:59,600
Speaker 1: amount of humanitarian assistance to Palestinians in this moment of

977
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:03,640
Speaker 1: apps crisis. And then the last thing that all well,

978
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:07,440
Speaker 1: two other things. Russia was sort of set up. They

979
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:10,640
Speaker 1: had sort of planned the contingency plan for if we

980
00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:13,839
Speaker 1: become a pariah state, We'll have our economy and our

981
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:16,200
Speaker 1: government set up to be able to deal with that,

982
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:19,759
Speaker 1: and you know, alternative world powers, including you know, a

983
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:22,200
Speaker 1: close relationship with China, to be able to cope with that.

984
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:24,239
Speaker 1: And so it hasn't been painless, but they've been able

985
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 1: to get through it. Israel is not set up like that.

986
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:30,920
Speaker 1: Israel is incredibly dependent on foreign direct investment, on you know,

987
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:34,879
Speaker 1: capital flowing into the country. They're very dependent on this

988
00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:37,840
Speaker 1: global tech sector, which is really, you know, both a

989
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:42,080
Speaker 1: source of like economic prosperity and also incredible national pride.

990
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:47,200
Speaker 1: So they are not prepared economically to be that Paria state.

991
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:50,480
Speaker 1: And the last thing I will say on this is,

992
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:54,200
Speaker 1: you know, the US we pick and choose when we

993
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:58,239
Speaker 1: feel like listening to international law when we don't. You know,

994
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:01,520
Speaker 1: we have been complete hit pocrits on this basically since

995
00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:04,719
Speaker 1: the beginning. We just decide when and how we're going

996
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:07,719
Speaker 1: to pay attention to this. But Europe has approached this

997
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:10,520
Speaker 1: in a more consistent way, and so it will be

998
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:13,719
Speaker 1: a much more difficult thing for the EU and the

999
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:18,680
Speaker 1: constituent European nations to go against what the ICJ is

1000
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:21,800
Speaker 1: saying here and what they continue to say going forward,

1001
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:26,040
Speaker 1: because this isn't over. They will also be assessing whether

1002
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 1: Israel is meeting their obligations that have now been set

1003
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:33,600
Speaker 1: forth by the International Court of Justice. So and the

1004
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:35,800
Speaker 1: e use a huge trading partner for as one of

1005
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:40,120
Speaker 1: their top trading partners for Israel. So the stakes, you know,

1006
00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:42,680
Speaker 1: the stakes do exist. It's not nothing. And I think

1007
00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:45,279
Speaker 1: you could already see in some Israeli actions the way

1008
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:46,400
Speaker 1: that this has mattered.

1009
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:53,040
Speaker 2: An absolutely stunning moment on CNN when CNN's Dana Bash

1010
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:56,640
Speaker 2: had on former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi to ask her

1011
00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:01,160
Speaker 2: about cesfire protesters, in which Pelosi intimated that these ceasefire

1012
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:04,880
Speaker 2: protesters are actually doing the bidding of Vladimir Putin.

1013
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:06,080
Speaker 3: Here's what she had to say.

1014
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:08,600
Speaker 5: They're in front of my house all the time, so

1015
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:13,000
Speaker 5: I have a feeling for what feelings they have. But

1016
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:15,799
Speaker 5: we have to think about what we're doing, and what

1017
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:18,680
Speaker 5: we have to do is try to stop the suffering

1018
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:22,880
Speaker 5: and gossip. This is women and children. People don't have

1019
00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:26,480
Speaker 5: a place to go, so let's address that. But for

1020
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:30,719
Speaker 5: them to call for a ceasefire is mister Putin's message.

1021
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:35,440
Speaker 5: Mister Putin's message, Make no mistake. This is directly connected

1022
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:39,400
Speaker 5: to what he would like to see. Same thing with Ukraine.

1023
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:43,719
Speaker 5: It's about Putin's message. I think some of these some

1024
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:48,120
Speaker 5: of these protesters are spontaneous and organic and sincere. Some

1025
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:51,520
Speaker 5: I think are connected to Russia. And I say that

1026
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:55,560
Speaker 5: having looked at this for a long time now as you.

1027
00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:58,160
Speaker 3: Can you think some of these protests are Russian plants?

1028
00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:02,160
Speaker 5: Say they're plants. I think some financing should be investigated,

1029
00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:06,279
Speaker 5: and I want to ask the FBI to investigate that.

1030
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:10,240
Speaker 5: But apart from that, let's just say it's all spontaneous

1031
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:15,520
Speaker 5: and sincere. Let's say it's all spontaneous and sincere. Young

1032
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:18,799
Speaker 5: people care about the right to choose. They care about

1033
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:23,239
Speaker 5: LGBTQ issues, they care about preserving the planet, they care

1034
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:27,799
Speaker 5: about gun violence prevention, that's what they tell us. They

1035
00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:31,120
Speaker 5: care about our democracy and the freedoms that are contained

1036
00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:33,319
Speaker 5: in some of what I said. So they're going to

1037
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:34,560
Speaker 5: have to make a decision.

1038
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:37,960
Speaker 2: Okay, there's a lot to go into there. First of all,

1039
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:41,560
Speaker 2: it's pretty wild to say that they are Russian fact.

1040
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 2: Second though, notice immediately what she calls for, I want

1041
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:50,560
Speaker 2: the FBI to investigate that. So this is like nineteen

1042
00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:54,120
Speaker 2: sixties level calls. And what's crazy to me is that

1043
00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:57,279
Speaker 2: this is not an immediate national scandal. I'm curious what

1044
00:54:57,320 --> 00:54:58,759
Speaker 2: you think, Crystal. I mean, I don't know if a

1045
00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:00,759
Speaker 2: brain is so broken that you can always just go

1046
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:04,080
Speaker 2: back to putin. But she does seem to believe this,

1047
00:55:04,239 --> 00:55:06,799
Speaker 2: like Russia Gate has so rotted her brain that, you know,

1048
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:09,239
Speaker 2: the Russia example, the Russia is the first thing that

1049
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:13,120
Speaker 2: she can reach for. FBI you know, investigating Americans seems

1050
00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:15,640
Speaker 2: to be the second thing that she wants to reach

1051
00:55:15,680 --> 00:55:17,440
Speaker 2: for here. But I mean, this is truly stunning. This

1052
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:19,760
Speaker 2: is one of the most powerful Democrats in the entire country.

1053
00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:22,040
Speaker 1: I mean, she's certainly old enough to go back to

1054
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:24,200
Speaker 1: those co Intel pro days, so I guess she's just

1055
00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:28,000
Speaker 1: reaching back into her history from the old bagatrix. But

1056
00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:32,600
Speaker 1: not that that ever really fully stopped. No, it's stunning

1057
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:38,000
Speaker 1: that this woman, who continues to be an incredibly powerful individual,

1058
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:41,760
Speaker 1: one of the most powerful people in the country, would

1059
00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:48,360
Speaker 1: call for the FBI to investigate ceasefire protesters, the vast

1060
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:52,480
Speaker 1: majority of whom, by the way, are the Democratic Parties base.

1061
00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:57,200
Speaker 1: I mean, the Democratic Party base is wildly at odds

1062
00:55:57,440 --> 00:56:00,600
Speaker 1: with where Biden and Pelosi are on this issue. I mean,

1063
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:02,680
Speaker 1: among twenty twenty Biden voters, I think we may even

1064
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 1: have this fifty percent actually think that Israel is committing

1065
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 1: a genocide, and another thirty percent aren't too sure. You

1066
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:13,840
Speaker 1: got eighty percent of people who voted for Joe Biden

1067
00:56:13,880 --> 00:56:16,520
Speaker 1: who say, you know, either they are committing a genocide

1068
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:20,800
Speaker 1: or they may be committing a genocide against Palestinine civilians

1069
00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:23,879
Speaker 1: and Joe Biden obviously has backed them with that one

1070
00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:29,040
Speaker 1: hundred and ten percent expediting the weapons shipments. So it

1071
00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:33,160
Speaker 1: is very rare to see an issue where the elite

1072
00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:37,040
Speaker 1: of the party are so dramatically at odds and directly

1073
00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:42,960
Speaker 1: antagonistic with their own voting base of support. So that's

1074
00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:45,200
Speaker 1: one thing I would say in terms of where this

1075
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:48,880
Speaker 1: comes from. I mean, I think that these Democrats, that

1076
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:52,439
Speaker 1: the top leadership are so out of touch that they

1077
00:56:52,560 --> 00:56:59,160
Speaker 1: just can't fathom that young people actually genuinely, wildly disagree

1078
00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:03,560
Speaker 1: with their policy and are intelligent enough to have formulated

1079
00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:09,040
Speaker 1: their own opinions outside of the Democratic Party media propaganda machine,

1080
00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:12,839
Speaker 1: and they do not agree with what you're doing. And

1081
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:17,120
Speaker 1: it didn't take Vladimir Putin or Russian financing or anything

1082
00:57:17,160 --> 00:57:20,160
Speaker 1: else for them to come to this position. It wasn't

1083
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:24,720
Speaker 1: the TikTok algorithms. It's not because they're Russian plants. It's

1084
00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:29,200
Speaker 1: because they think you are aiding and embetting a genocide

1085
00:57:29,240 --> 00:57:29,560
Speaker 1: and they.

1086
00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:30,760
Speaker 4: Got a little bit of a problem with that.

1087
00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:33,960
Speaker 1: The other thing that I would say, Socer that I

1088
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:37,160
Speaker 1: found very noteworthy at the beginning of her comments. You

1089
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:39,040
Speaker 1: probably took note of this as well, is that The

1090
00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:40,960
Speaker 1: first thing out of her mouth is like, yeah, they're

1091
00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:44,280
Speaker 1: outside of my house all the time. And I do

1092
00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:48,960
Speaker 1: think that's where some of the like personal animus and

1093
00:57:49,080 --> 00:57:52,560
Speaker 1: the rub comes from, because it's again it's at odds

1094
00:57:52,560 --> 00:57:56,760
Speaker 1: with her own self conception, and she sees herself as

1095
00:57:56,800 --> 00:58:02,120
Speaker 1: this like liberal feminist trail blazer. She thinks that young

1096
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:05,560
Speaker 1: people should be yes queening her, and if they're not,

1097
00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:08,760
Speaker 1: it's not because of something she did or something the

1098
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:12,080
Speaker 1: Democratic Party did. It must be some problem with them,

1099
00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:14,520
Speaker 1: or it must not be truly reflective of how they

1100
00:58:14,600 --> 00:58:18,160
Speaker 1: really feel about her or really feel about these policy issues.

1101
00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:20,400
Speaker 4: So what does she go for?

1102
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:23,120
Speaker 1: She goes for, you know, the easiest sugar high the

1103
00:58:23,160 --> 00:58:26,320
Speaker 1: biggest source of derangement of the Democratic Party over the

1104
00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:30,360
Speaker 1: course of these past eight years or so, the Russiagate conspiracy,

1105
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:35,120
Speaker 1: to try to conceptualize how these young people could possibly

1106
00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:39,400
Speaker 1: disagree with her Liberal Queen Nancy Pelosi.

1107
00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:43,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I mean, there's there's just so much egotism

1108
00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:47,200
Speaker 2: behind the comments. But it also just reminds me of

1109
00:58:47,240 --> 00:58:50,800
Speaker 2: something that really was normalized under the Russigate era, where

1110
00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:54,640
Speaker 2: you could just plausibly say that people American citizens are

1111
00:58:54,640 --> 00:58:59,040
Speaker 2: committing treason and receive virtually no pushback. Even think about

1112
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:02,280
Speaker 2: Dane to Bash there, she's like, oh, you think that

1113
00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:04,480
Speaker 2: they're Russian backed, It's not like, hold on a second,

1114
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:07,400
Speaker 2: what single scrap of evidence do you have to back

1115
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:09,520
Speaker 2: that up? And it goes back to, for example, you know,

1116
00:59:09,640 --> 00:59:13,000
Speaker 2: Hillary Clinton accusing Tulsea Gabbert of being a Russian asset

1117
00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:15,400
Speaker 2: and all these things. These just became normalized such that

1118
00:59:15,480 --> 00:59:18,400
Speaker 2: it's like you were literally saying that people are committing

1119
00:59:18,600 --> 00:59:21,120
Speaker 2: treason or they are agents of foreign governments, these are

1120
00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:24,160
Speaker 2: prosecutable crimes, and then beyond the rhetoric of that, you're

1121
00:59:24,160 --> 00:59:27,400
Speaker 2: actually arguing for the FBI to immediately come in and

1122
00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:30,360
Speaker 2: step in to investigate said Americans. Says this has been

1123
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:33,000
Speaker 2: so normalized now from the Russia Gate era and then

1124
00:59:33,040 --> 00:59:36,560
Speaker 2: extended during the whole January sixth investigation such that it

1125
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:39,960
Speaker 2: extends to everybody. It's like a blanket security threat really

1126
00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:43,520
Speaker 2: from the top, where the former House Speaker, most powerful

1127
00:59:43,560 --> 00:59:45,560
Speaker 2: Democrat in the entire country can just go on national

1128
00:59:45,560 --> 00:59:49,480
Speaker 2: television and the host just doesn't even seem like she

1129
00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:53,680
Speaker 2: needs to follow up beyond just reiterating the claim just

1130
00:59:53,720 --> 00:59:55,480
Speaker 2: to make sure that she said it. I was actually

1131
00:59:55,480 --> 00:59:57,760
Speaker 2: more stunned by that, even more, not just the comment,

1132
00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:01,040
Speaker 2: but by the casualness which was greed by the same

1133
01:00:02,520 --> 01:00:04,439
Speaker 2: She should know better to just let that fly.

1134
01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:05,720
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1135
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:09,080
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And to your point about no evidence, you know,

1136
01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:11,680
Speaker 1: she loves to do the same. And remember Adam Schiff

1137
01:00:11,840 --> 01:00:14,439
Speaker 1: was like the king of doing this during the height

1138
01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:18,160
Speaker 1: of the Russia Gate era, where he would intimate that

1139
01:00:18,280 --> 01:00:22,200
Speaker 1: he has some special knowledge about what's going on because

1140
01:00:22,240 --> 01:00:25,960
Speaker 1: he's been read in by the intel community, or he

1141
01:00:26,040 --> 01:00:29,120
Speaker 1: has some secret information that he can just hint at

1142
01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:32,160
Speaker 1: but he can't really fully put out to the public.

1143
01:00:32,680 --> 01:00:34,520
Speaker 4: And she pulls that same trick here.

1144
01:00:34,960 --> 01:00:37,160
Speaker 1: She says like something to the fact that, well, I've

1145
01:00:37,160 --> 01:00:40,440
Speaker 1: been looking into this for a long time, and based

1146
01:00:40,440 --> 01:00:43,880
Speaker 1: on what I've seen, we need to investigate the financing.

1147
01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:47,560
Speaker 1: I'm going to ask for the FBI to investigate the financing.

1148
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:51,840
Speaker 1: She offers nothing in the way of evidence or support.

1149
01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:55,920
Speaker 1: It's just an appeal to this potential secret knowledge that

1150
01:00:56,080 --> 01:00:59,120
Speaker 1: she may have. I guess because the protesters show up

1151
01:00:59,120 --> 01:01:03,240
Speaker 1: at her house, Senate irritates her that they disagree with

1152
01:01:03,280 --> 01:01:06,000
Speaker 1: her on this policy. The other thing that I just

1153
01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:11,400
Speaker 1: have to say is I find it so incredibly patronizing

1154
01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:15,920
Speaker 1: and deeply offensive when she says calling for a ceasefire

1155
01:01:16,040 --> 01:01:21,439
Speaker 1: is quote mister Putin's message, because again, it takes all

1156
01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:26,200
Speaker 1: the agency away from the by the way overwhelming majority

1157
01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:29,880
Speaker 1: of Americans, not just Democrats, but Americans who want a

1158
01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:34,000
Speaker 1: ceasefire because in spite of all the media propaganda, they

1159
01:01:34,040 --> 01:01:37,320
Speaker 1: still see some of these images of children under the

1160
01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:40,640
Speaker 1: rubble and babies dying and getting bombed, and they say,

1161
01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:43,440
Speaker 1: this is horrible, and I want it to stop. To

1162
01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:45,960
Speaker 1: think that that can only come from some sort of

1163
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:50,760
Speaker 1: nefarious place. I just find it so deeply insulting and

1164
01:01:50,840 --> 01:01:54,200
Speaker 1: offensive that you could even formulate those words.

1165
01:01:54,880 --> 01:01:55,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I think you're right.

1166
01:01:55,920 --> 01:01:59,880
Speaker 2: That's a perfect transition actually to the dearborn Michigan mayor,

1167
01:02:00,240 --> 01:02:03,720
Speaker 2: mister Abdullahamood, who's actually on standby waiting to join us.

1168
01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:04,480
Speaker 3: Let's get to it.

1169
01:02:04,600 --> 01:02:07,360
Speaker 2: Joining us now is the mayor of dearborn Michigan, of

1170
01:02:07,480 --> 01:02:09,960
Speaker 2: du Lahamoud, mister Mayor, thank you so much for joining us.

1171
01:02:09,960 --> 01:02:10,840
Speaker 3: We really appreciate it.

1172
01:02:11,120 --> 01:02:12,400
Speaker 7: Thank you so much for having.

1173
01:02:12,160 --> 01:02:14,920
Speaker 2: Me absolutely so you came to our attention recently. Let's

1174
01:02:14,960 --> 01:02:18,520
Speaker 2: put this up there on the screen where you have

1175
01:02:18,680 --> 01:02:23,160
Speaker 2: canceled with a Biden campaign manager meeting over the unconditional

1176
01:02:23,240 --> 01:02:26,720
Speaker 2: support by the President for Israel. Given that you are

1177
01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:30,000
Speaker 2: the mayor of one of the most prominent Arab American

1178
01:02:30,160 --> 01:02:33,320
Speaker 2: towns you know in the United States with a large population,

1179
01:02:33,440 --> 01:02:35,120
Speaker 2: we wanted you to join us and to tell us

1180
01:02:35,120 --> 01:02:37,240
Speaker 2: a little bit about your decision not to meet with

1181
01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:40,160
Speaker 2: the Biden campaign and some of the electoral politics that

1182
01:02:40,240 --> 01:02:41,760
Speaker 2: inform that you know.

1183
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:44,960
Speaker 9: From our perspective, we believe just that that this is

1184
01:02:45,000 --> 01:02:47,680
Speaker 9: actually not a moment for electoral politics. If we want

1185
01:02:47,680 --> 01:02:51,160
Speaker 9: to talk about Palestinians and what's unfolding in Araza. This

1186
01:02:51,200 --> 01:02:53,480
Speaker 9: is not an issue of campaigning and poll numbers. This

1187
01:02:53,560 --> 01:02:57,479
Speaker 9: is an issue that is before us through a lens

1188
01:02:57,480 --> 01:03:00,320
Speaker 9: of humanity. And so if we want to have a

1189
01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:03,479
Speaker 9: conversation about changing course for this White House administration, about

1190
01:03:03,480 --> 01:03:06,000
Speaker 9: how they move forward, I don't have that conversation with

1191
01:03:06,040 --> 01:03:08,800
Speaker 9: campaign staffers. I have that conversation with policy makers.

1192
01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:09,600
Speaker 3: I see.

1193
01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:12,520
Speaker 1: So you would be open, for example, to speaking with

1194
01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:15,840
Speaker 1: the President or his advisors directly.

1195
01:03:16,520 --> 01:03:18,880
Speaker 4: It was more the idea that they would.

1196
01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:21,680
Speaker 1: Reach out from a campaign and electoral perspective that you found.

1197
01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:23,840
Speaker 1: I don't know if you'd say offensive, how would you

1198
01:03:23,880 --> 01:03:24,400
Speaker 1: describe that?

1199
01:03:24,760 --> 01:03:27,680
Speaker 9: I mean, this is day one thirteen or one fourteen now,

1200
01:03:27,760 --> 01:03:30,000
Speaker 9: and up until this point, there has not been a

1201
01:03:30,040 --> 01:03:33,240
Speaker 9: single member of the administration that's made it out to

1202
01:03:33,480 --> 01:03:36,080
Speaker 9: the city of Deerborn to have a conversation about what's happening.

1203
01:03:36,320 --> 01:03:39,000
Speaker 9: And so for us, it's extremely dehumanizing that the first

1204
01:03:39,080 --> 01:03:41,400
Speaker 9: time this actually occurs is when you send out your

1205
01:03:41,440 --> 01:03:44,000
Speaker 9: campaign manager. Yes, we would be open to have a

1206
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:47,080
Speaker 9: conversation with any individual that wants to have a constructive

1207
01:03:47,120 --> 01:03:49,720
Speaker 9: dialogue about how to move things forward. But if you

1208
01:03:49,760 --> 01:03:51,760
Speaker 9: want to have a photo op, if you want to

1209
01:03:51,800 --> 01:03:53,680
Speaker 9: say that you listened or spoke to the Air American

1210
01:03:53,720 --> 01:03:56,040
Speaker 9: community just to have that talking point, that's not a

1211
01:03:56,080 --> 01:03:57,840
Speaker 9: conversation that we're going to give in on or a

1212
01:03:57,840 --> 01:03:58,600
Speaker 9: conversation we want to.

1213
01:03:58,560 --> 01:03:59,000
Speaker 8: Be a part of.

1214
01:03:59,360 --> 01:04:03,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, Mayor, we've watched with some interest around the dynamics

1215
01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:05,040
Speaker 2: within this. As you said, you know you didn't want

1216
01:04:05,080 --> 01:04:07,640
Speaker 2: this to be part of electoral politics. Almost certainly why

1217
01:04:07,640 --> 01:04:10,080
Speaker 2: that they reached out to you with some previous data,

1218
01:04:10,120 --> 01:04:12,400
Speaker 2: for example, we can put up here on the screen

1219
01:04:12,480 --> 01:04:16,320
Speaker 2: shows just how critical the Arab American vote was in

1220
01:04:16,360 --> 01:04:19,120
Speaker 2: the state of Michigan for twenty twenty. What would you

1221
01:04:19,160 --> 01:04:21,840
Speaker 2: say then to President Biden? You know electoral politics can

1222
01:04:21,840 --> 01:04:23,720
Speaker 2: be downstream than of policy.

1223
01:04:23,720 --> 01:04:25,240
Speaker 3: What would you say if you were.

1224
01:04:25,120 --> 01:04:27,360
Speaker 2: To be able to meet with him about the concerns

1225
01:04:27,360 --> 01:04:30,160
Speaker 2: that you have in amongst your constituents.

1226
01:04:30,760 --> 01:04:33,320
Speaker 9: You know, I think immediately I would say is we

1227
01:04:33,400 --> 01:04:35,440
Speaker 9: have set up very low bar as a community. We

1228
01:04:35,480 --> 01:04:38,320
Speaker 9: want to backup president that does not support a genocide.

1229
01:04:38,520 --> 01:04:42,280
Speaker 9: You want a backup president who believes in a value

1230
01:04:42,320 --> 01:04:44,800
Speaker 9: principle that I hope all Americans believe in. There's no

1231
01:04:44,960 --> 01:04:48,480
Speaker 9: justification for the killing of any innocent man, woman, or child.

1232
01:04:48,720 --> 01:04:50,160
Speaker 7: That is a very simple statement.

1233
01:04:50,200 --> 01:04:52,480
Speaker 9: And if you oppose that statement or disagree with that statement,

1234
01:04:52,560 --> 01:04:54,480
Speaker 9: we're trying to add an asterisk to that statement or

1235
01:04:54,480 --> 01:04:57,480
Speaker 9: a qualifier that says more about your moral compass than

1236
01:04:57,480 --> 01:05:00,240
Speaker 9: it says about anything else. And so that that's what

1237
01:05:00,240 --> 01:05:02,200
Speaker 9: I would tell the president were you here. We want

1238
01:05:02,200 --> 01:05:05,160
Speaker 9: to have meaningful dialogue. We want to immediately demand a

1239
01:05:05,200 --> 01:05:07,600
Speaker 9: cease fire to end the onslaught and the killing of

1240
01:05:07,600 --> 01:05:10,000
Speaker 9: innocent men, women, and children, But we have to have

1241
01:05:10,040 --> 01:05:13,400
Speaker 9: a constructive pathy moving forward. The argument of the lesser

1242
01:05:13,400 --> 01:05:18,480
Speaker 9: of two evils, the idea that Trump is will destroy

1243
01:05:18,560 --> 01:05:21,240
Speaker 9: American democracy. That is a question that needs to be

1244
01:05:21,280 --> 01:05:23,480
Speaker 9: put back into the hands and the lapse of the

1245
01:05:23,520 --> 01:05:27,080
Speaker 9: current president. What will you do to avoid the American

1246
01:05:27,120 --> 01:05:29,680
Speaker 9: democracy from being threatened by a Trump reelection?

1247
01:05:30,080 --> 01:05:33,000
Speaker 1: How are you navigating that question? And what are you

1248
01:05:33,080 --> 01:05:36,400
Speaker 1: hearing from your constituents, Because as you know, and you've

1249
01:05:36,400 --> 01:05:40,640
Speaker 1: probably been told directly, basically, the Biden camp thinks they'll

1250
01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:43,160
Speaker 1: get over it when they think about Trump.

1251
01:05:43,160 --> 01:05:44,760
Speaker 4: On the other side, you know, is their other.

1252
01:05:44,680 --> 01:05:46,600
Speaker 1: Choice on the ticket, who's called for a Muslim ban

1253
01:05:46,680 --> 01:05:50,240
Speaker 1: and would probably also be fully backing the jedocide. They'll

1254
01:05:50,240 --> 01:05:53,240
Speaker 1: come to their senses in their view, and they'll vote

1255
01:05:53,240 --> 01:05:56,400
Speaker 1: for Joe Biden. Once again, what are you hearing from

1256
01:05:56,400 --> 01:05:59,160
Speaker 1: your constituents about how they're navigating that question. How are

1257
01:05:59,200 --> 01:06:02,400
Speaker 1: you thinking about that question with your own moral compass.

1258
01:06:02,640 --> 01:06:05,760
Speaker 9: You know, we have residents who have had loved ones

1259
01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:08,960
Speaker 9: buried under the rubble and their residential towers after being

1260
01:06:09,000 --> 01:06:11,560
Speaker 9: bombed by Israeli fighter jets. We've had loved ones who

1261
01:06:11,640 --> 01:06:15,480
Speaker 9: have lost twelve plus family members. That is not something

1262
01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:19,000
Speaker 9: you ever forget about now, and not in a matter

1263
01:06:19,080 --> 01:06:21,439
Speaker 9: of a few hundred days before an election season something

1264
01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:25,480
Speaker 9: that you just move past. You know, I've run for

1265
01:06:25,560 --> 01:06:28,840
Speaker 9: office four times now, previously as Air representative and now

1266
01:06:28,840 --> 01:06:32,440
Speaker 9: as mayor, and each time the question falls on the candidate,

1267
01:06:32,480 --> 01:06:34,640
Speaker 9: what will they do to earn the vote and the

1268
01:06:34,680 --> 01:06:37,720
Speaker 9: trust of the constituency that they're trying to represent. That's

1269
01:06:37,760 --> 01:06:40,520
Speaker 9: not a question you put back on the community of

1270
01:06:40,680 --> 01:06:44,400
Speaker 9: how dare you potentially allow somebody to threaten our democracy

1271
01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:47,520
Speaker 9: back into office, the candidate has to win over the

1272
01:06:47,560 --> 01:06:49,959
Speaker 9: residents of the country they're trying to serve, and really

1273
01:06:49,960 --> 01:06:51,720
Speaker 9: that that question to be put back to the president.

1274
01:06:52,280 --> 01:06:53,840
Speaker 9: You know, people have tried to come to us and

1275
01:06:53,840 --> 01:06:55,960
Speaker 9: say this is, you know, strictly an American issue or

1276
01:06:56,000 --> 01:06:58,560
Speaker 9: a Muslim American issue, and I also disagree with that notion.

1277
01:06:58,600 --> 01:07:01,240
Speaker 9: Over eighty percent of Democrats believe a ceasefire is a

1278
01:07:01,320 --> 01:07:04,560
Speaker 9: right pathway forward. Hack the majority of Republicans believe that

1279
01:07:04,600 --> 01:07:07,120
Speaker 9: a ceasefire is a right path forward. And so I

1280
01:07:07,160 --> 01:07:09,080
Speaker 9: think it's time for the White House and for our

1281
01:07:09,080 --> 01:07:12,280
Speaker 9: Congression leaders to hear what Americans are asking for and

1282
01:07:12,360 --> 01:07:15,320
Speaker 9: to deliver on the promise of being decent human beings

1283
01:07:15,360 --> 01:07:17,200
Speaker 9: and bringing decency back to that White House.

1284
01:07:17,480 --> 01:07:18,560
Speaker 3: Let me ask you this, mister Mayor.

1285
01:07:18,600 --> 01:07:20,160
Speaker 2: The undertone of a lot of what you're saying is

1286
01:07:20,160 --> 01:07:21,720
Speaker 2: that some people are not necessarily going to vote for

1287
01:07:21,720 --> 01:07:23,320
Speaker 2: Biden just because he tells me to say so. So

1288
01:07:23,400 --> 01:07:26,080
Speaker 2: we had an organizer for the Ceasefire of New Hampshire

1289
01:07:26,080 --> 01:07:27,960
Speaker 2: here on the show and we asked him explicitly.

1290
01:07:27,960 --> 01:07:29,960
Speaker 3: He said, okay, like what is the goal of this.

1291
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:31,720
Speaker 2: Is it just to send a message to President Biden

1292
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:33,880
Speaker 2: or is it actually threatened, you know, his ability to

1293
01:07:33,920 --> 01:07:36,560
Speaker 2: potentially get reelected? And he said, solely, it was just

1294
01:07:36,680 --> 01:07:38,680
Speaker 2: trying to get a message to President Biden who he

1295
01:07:38,720 --> 01:07:41,080
Speaker 2: remains and who he supports. So where do you stand

1296
01:07:41,160 --> 01:07:43,360
Speaker 2: kind of in that heuristic of looking at this issue.

1297
01:07:44,400 --> 01:07:47,320
Speaker 9: You know, our primary elections are in about, you know,

1298
01:07:47,480 --> 01:07:51,640
Speaker 9: less than thirty days, and we are you know, I

1299
01:07:51,680 --> 01:07:53,840
Speaker 9: am not at this point committed to voting for Joe Biden.

1300
01:07:54,120 --> 01:07:57,200
Speaker 9: I'm not committed to voting for President Joe Biden in November.

1301
01:07:57,800 --> 01:07:59,560
Speaker 9: I think what you're going to see is a majority

1302
01:07:59,560 --> 01:08:03,240
Speaker 9: of my community, majority of Deerbynites, set this presidential election out.

1303
01:08:03,240 --> 01:08:05,560
Speaker 9: And more than just a presidential election, it's also the

1304
01:08:05,680 --> 01:08:06,240
Speaker 9: US Senate.

1305
01:08:06,520 --> 01:08:08,560
Speaker 7: We don't have a front running candidate who's.

1306
01:08:08,320 --> 01:08:10,560
Speaker 9: Also called for a ceasefire, and so I think what

1307
01:08:10,600 --> 01:08:12,880
Speaker 9: the Democrat's risk is not only losing the White House

1308
01:08:13,040 --> 01:08:15,880
Speaker 9: but also flipping the US Senate back to Republican stronghold.

1309
01:08:16,160 --> 01:08:18,240
Speaker 7: And so for us, that's what's that risk.

1310
01:08:18,400 --> 01:08:21,920
Speaker 9: And if you believe that being attached to Benjamin Natanya,

1311
01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:26,439
Speaker 9: who's right wing government, is worth that sacrifice, then by

1312
01:08:26,520 --> 01:08:28,920
Speaker 9: all means, move forward and you'll see the consequences in.

1313
01:08:28,920 --> 01:08:33,160
Speaker 1: November mayor what would you need to see from this

1314
01:08:33,320 --> 01:08:36,480
Speaker 1: president for him to earn your support?

1315
01:08:37,920 --> 01:08:40,439
Speaker 9: You know, it's hard to even come up with the

1316
01:08:40,520 --> 01:08:42,759
Speaker 9: list of things of what would it take to earn support.

1317
01:08:42,840 --> 01:08:45,000
Speaker 9: I think for me, it's what would it take for

1318
01:08:45,080 --> 01:08:47,519
Speaker 9: even for us to begin to have a dialogue along

1319
01:08:47,560 --> 01:08:49,960
Speaker 9: that pathway. And the immediate thing again is to call

1320
01:08:50,000 --> 01:08:53,040
Speaker 9: for the ceasefire. You know, we can't continually read about

1321
01:08:53,080 --> 01:08:56,559
Speaker 9: nearly two hundred people being murdered each and every single

1322
01:08:56,640 --> 01:08:58,800
Speaker 9: day that we wake up for dearborn, for us, this

1323
01:08:58,920 --> 01:09:01,800
Speaker 9: is very much real. These are our parents' villages that

1324
01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:04,759
Speaker 9: are being bombed, our Palish villages that are being ethnically cleansed,

1325
01:09:04,960 --> 01:09:07,440
Speaker 9: our family members that are buried under the rebel.

1326
01:09:07,960 --> 01:09:09,680
Speaker 7: And So for us, we need decency.

1327
01:09:09,880 --> 01:09:12,200
Speaker 9: We need to be dignified and respected for the human

1328
01:09:12,240 --> 01:09:14,840
Speaker 9: beings that we are, and not only political calculations that

1329
01:09:14,880 --> 01:09:17,640
Speaker 9: are taking into account whenever elections come around.

1330
01:09:17,760 --> 01:09:22,720
Speaker 1: Wow, finally, Mayor, we covered a moment ago Nancy Pelosi's

1331
01:09:22,920 --> 01:09:28,240
Speaker 1: comments basically saying that the ceasefire protesters are being funded

1332
01:09:28,240 --> 01:09:32,160
Speaker 1: by Russia, that this is Vladimir Putin's message. What is

1333
01:09:32,200 --> 01:09:33,040
Speaker 1: your response to that.

1334
01:09:33,360 --> 01:09:35,320
Speaker 7: The Democratic leadership is in disarray.

1335
01:09:35,560 --> 01:09:37,880
Speaker 9: I cannot believe that in a moment in twenty twenty

1336
01:09:37,880 --> 01:09:40,840
Speaker 9: four and twenty twenty three, the word ceasefire has become

1337
01:09:40,880 --> 01:09:44,160
Speaker 9: the most controversial term, and somehow Vladimir Putin is actually

1338
01:09:44,160 --> 01:09:47,000
Speaker 9: the one who wants to lead with diplomatic efforts. That

1339
01:09:47,080 --> 01:09:49,439
Speaker 9: the idea that our Pope would renewed calls for a

1340
01:09:49,479 --> 01:09:52,160
Speaker 9: ceasefire might potentially be a Russian operative. But I think

1341
01:09:52,200 --> 01:09:55,000
Speaker 9: this is an opportunity for us to really have a

1342
01:09:55,000 --> 01:09:57,640
Speaker 9: conversation about what's happening with the Democratic Party because we

1343
01:09:57,720 --> 01:09:58,599
Speaker 9: have to hold them account.

1344
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:01,920
Speaker 2: We really appreciate you taking the time, sir, and we

1345
01:10:01,960 --> 01:10:03,479
Speaker 2: appreciate what you had to say today.

1346
01:10:03,520 --> 01:10:05,080
Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you so much for.

1347
01:10:08,680 --> 01:10:11,160
Speaker 2: We had to fit something fun into this show and

1348
01:10:11,520 --> 01:10:13,200
Speaker 2: what do we have. We have a story here about

1349
01:10:13,280 --> 01:10:15,360
Speaker 2: Taylor Swift. No, this is not going to be about

1350
01:10:15,520 --> 01:10:17,880
Speaker 2: the Swifty Super Bowl, although I'm sure that we'll have

1351
01:10:17,920 --> 01:10:20,640
Speaker 2: a lot of commentary to save on that front for

1352
01:10:20,720 --> 01:10:23,599
Speaker 2: the future. This is about a craze which has swept

1353
01:10:23,800 --> 01:10:26,439
Speaker 2: the media, elevated all the way to the White House,

1354
01:10:26,479 --> 01:10:29,479
Speaker 2: and is a genuinely divisive issue where I'm not even

1355
01:10:29,520 --> 01:10:31,120
Speaker 2: sure where either Chris or I stand.

1356
01:10:31,160 --> 01:10:33,280
Speaker 3: So I'm fun it's going to be fun to discuss it.

1357
01:10:33,720 --> 01:10:38,240
Speaker 2: There have been AI deep fake nude images of Taylor

1358
01:10:38,240 --> 01:10:41,280
Speaker 2: Swift and many other celebrities that have been circulating online.

1359
01:10:41,360 --> 01:10:44,320
Speaker 2: Now it's not necessarily something new, it's something that's actually

1360
01:10:44,360 --> 01:10:47,120
Speaker 2: existed for a long time, and yet there has somehow

1361
01:10:47,240 --> 01:10:50,040
Speaker 2: now been a streisand effect such that some of the

1362
01:10:50,080 --> 01:10:52,920
Speaker 2: most senior leaders both in ai and in the nation

1363
01:10:53,360 --> 01:10:55,479
Speaker 2: are now being asked about this as if it's some

1364
01:10:55,520 --> 01:10:59,000
Speaker 2: sort of national security issue bubbled to the surface whenever

1365
01:10:59,160 --> 01:11:03,080
Speaker 2: Lesser holds. NBC News sat down with the Microsoft CEO

1366
01:11:03,200 --> 01:11:07,000
Speaker 2: Satya Nadella to ask him specifically what he was going

1367
01:11:07,080 --> 01:11:09,840
Speaker 2: to do about this and what guardrails are in place

1368
01:11:09,880 --> 01:11:13,120
Speaker 2: for AIU that's such so called deep fake nude images

1369
01:11:13,160 --> 01:11:16,200
Speaker 2: and others do not circulate as we get closer to

1370
01:11:16,479 --> 01:11:18,680
Speaker 2: some even more advanced AI technology.

1371
01:11:18,840 --> 01:11:19,800
Speaker 3: Here's what they had to say.

1372
01:11:19,920 --> 01:11:23,000
Speaker 10: The Internet is exploding with fake and I emphasize fake

1373
01:11:23,560 --> 01:11:27,760
Speaker 10: sexually explicit images of Taylor Swift. What does that tell

1374
01:11:27,840 --> 01:11:31,360
Speaker 10: you about this technology? And whether we could ever get

1375
01:11:31,360 --> 01:11:33,320
Speaker 10: the toothpaste back in the tube.

1376
01:11:33,600 --> 01:11:34,479
Speaker 7: I'd tak two things.

1377
01:11:34,479 --> 01:11:36,479
Speaker 8: One is, again I go back to I think what's

1378
01:11:36,520 --> 01:11:39,600
Speaker 8: our responsibility, which is all of the guardrails that we

1379
01:11:39,680 --> 01:11:43,719
Speaker 8: need to place around the technology so that there's more

1380
01:11:43,760 --> 01:11:46,080
Speaker 8: safe content that's being produced. And there's a lot to

1381
01:11:46,080 --> 01:11:48,400
Speaker 8: be done there and a lot being done there, and

1382
01:11:48,439 --> 01:11:50,840
Speaker 8: we can do especially when you have law and law

1383
01:11:50,920 --> 01:11:54,120
Speaker 8: enforcement and tech platforms that can come together. I think

1384
01:11:54,160 --> 01:11:55,920
Speaker 8: we can govern a lot more than we think we

1385
01:11:56,000 --> 01:11:57,000
Speaker 8: give ourselves creditable.

1386
01:11:57,080 --> 01:12:00,720
Speaker 10: Does it set alarm bell off in terms of what

1387
01:12:00,760 --> 01:12:04,040
Speaker 10: can be done? You're Microsoft, You've got a high social

1388
01:12:04,880 --> 01:12:08,040
Speaker 10: corporate responsibility. There are other players in this game who

1389
01:12:08,080 --> 01:12:10,559
Speaker 10: may not have that same benefit.

1390
01:12:11,040 --> 01:12:15,400
Speaker 8: I think, first of all, absolutely, this is alarming and terrible,

1391
01:12:15,439 --> 01:12:17,280
Speaker 8: and so therefore yes we have to add.

1392
01:12:17,160 --> 01:12:19,479
Speaker 2: So Chris, Okay, I'm curious what you think, because this

1393
01:12:19,520 --> 01:12:22,320
Speaker 2: has become now a national issue such that even though

1394
01:12:22,600 --> 01:12:25,439
Speaker 2: White House is being asked about this, Okay, let's put

1395
01:12:25,439 --> 01:12:28,120
Speaker 2: this up there on the screen. They were specifically asked

1396
01:12:28,600 --> 01:12:31,120
Speaker 2: they said there as what are you going to do

1397
01:12:31,120 --> 01:12:34,920
Speaker 2: about it? Should Congress take legislative action to address fake

1398
01:12:34,960 --> 01:12:37,960
Speaker 2: abusive images online? We are alarmed by the circulation of

1399
01:12:37,960 --> 01:12:41,559
Speaker 2: the false images, Karige Jean Pierre told reporters, So I

1400
01:12:41,680 --> 01:12:44,000
Speaker 2: have to try and separate this where I think. Look,

1401
01:12:44,040 --> 01:12:46,280
Speaker 2: I think it's terrible that it happens to anybody, and

1402
01:12:46,360 --> 01:12:50,760
Speaker 2: yet for some reason it becomes a national issue legislatively,

1403
01:12:50,880 --> 01:12:53,200
Speaker 2: it seems like you should probably be dealt with, like

1404
01:12:53,240 --> 01:12:55,680
Speaker 2: with deep fakes. But also there seems to be some

1405
01:12:55,720 --> 01:12:58,439
Speaker 2: sort of weird strisand effit going on here where I

1406
01:12:58,479 --> 01:13:01,000
Speaker 2: didn't even know that these existed until I start seeing

1407
01:13:01,200 --> 01:13:05,080
Speaker 2: the NBC News Lester Whole interview, then the White House

1408
01:13:05,080 --> 01:13:08,559
Speaker 2: getting asked about this, now Congress having deliberative action, and

1409
01:13:08,600 --> 01:13:11,280
Speaker 2: then we'll get to what Twitter has done in their response.

1410
01:13:11,280 --> 01:13:13,280
Speaker 3: But anyway, your reaction.

1411
01:13:14,400 --> 01:13:15,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I don't know.

1412
01:13:16,280 --> 01:13:18,840
Speaker 1: I have to say I feel a little bit complicated

1413
01:13:18,880 --> 01:13:19,400
Speaker 1: about it.

1414
01:13:19,479 --> 01:13:21,960
Speaker 4: I guess in terms of Taylor Swift.

1415
01:13:22,160 --> 01:13:26,280
Speaker 1: I actually have the least sympathy for her because I

1416
01:13:26,680 --> 01:13:29,200
Speaker 1: sort of feel like, you know, not that I think

1417
01:13:29,240 --> 01:13:31,439
Speaker 1: this is great. I don't think it's good at all.

1418
01:13:31,520 --> 01:13:33,519
Speaker 1: I think it's bad. I think it's invasive. I can

1419
01:13:33,600 --> 01:13:36,960
Speaker 1: understand how she feels about it, but I do sort

1420
01:13:36,960 --> 01:13:40,200
Speaker 1: of feel like when you're a famous person, you kind

1421
01:13:40,200 --> 01:13:43,040
Speaker 1: of expect you're going to get some kind of shit

1422
01:13:43,240 --> 01:13:45,960
Speaker 1: like this, and you know, you get all the benefits

1423
01:13:45,960 --> 01:13:48,880
Speaker 1: of fame and fortune and you know, the eyeballs on

1424
01:13:48,920 --> 01:13:52,000
Speaker 1: you and success and stardom and all that stuff, which

1425
01:13:52,040 --> 01:13:54,400
Speaker 1: is really nice in which many people would love to have,

1426
01:13:55,080 --> 01:13:57,320
Speaker 1: and it does come with some downsides. And again I'm

1427
01:13:57,320 --> 01:14:00,800
Speaker 1: not like normalizing or saying that that's fine, but.

1428
01:14:00,760 --> 01:14:04,400
Speaker 4: I feel more I feel more.

1429
01:14:04,320 --> 01:14:07,120
Speaker 1: Like she can deal with it when it's Taylor Swift

1430
01:14:07,120 --> 01:14:08,800
Speaker 1: and she's got a legal team and they're going to

1431
01:14:08,880 --> 01:14:13,080
Speaker 1: go after whoever created this and whatever. The bigger questions

1432
01:14:13,080 --> 01:14:16,720
Speaker 1: for me are actually around quote unquote normal people who

1433
01:14:16,760 --> 01:14:21,200
Speaker 1: aren't famous, because it's not like the generation of these

1434
01:14:21,320 --> 01:14:25,719
Speaker 1: images is going to be solely confined to Taylor Swift

1435
01:14:25,840 --> 01:14:27,960
Speaker 1: or other you know, stars and icons.

1436
01:14:28,920 --> 01:14:31,720
Speaker 4: You know what if it's an underage.

1437
01:14:31,240 --> 01:14:35,800
Speaker 1: Girl that these fake AI nudes are being created up.

1438
01:14:36,400 --> 01:14:39,280
Speaker 1: I was a little bit the last week dealing with

1439
01:14:39,520 --> 01:14:41,400
Speaker 1: my child's health issue, which by the way, she's doing

1440
01:14:41,479 --> 01:14:43,280
Speaker 1: much better, thank you for all the well wishes, so

1441
01:14:43,360 --> 01:14:45,920
Speaker 1: I didn't actually look up the photos, but I am

1442
01:14:45,960 --> 01:14:48,760
Speaker 1: told they are very clearly fake. But I think that's

1443
01:14:48,800 --> 01:14:52,120
Speaker 1: another piece of this is, you know, it seems to me,

1444
01:14:52,520 --> 01:14:55,280
Speaker 1: not only with this, but with other deep fakes. It's

1445
01:14:55,439 --> 01:14:59,439
Speaker 1: really really important that we have a way of knowing

1446
01:15:00,080 --> 01:15:04,040
Speaker 1: what's real and what's not real, both because of these

1447
01:15:04,080 --> 01:15:08,000
Speaker 1: instances where there's you know, deep like invasion of privacy

1448
01:15:08,400 --> 01:15:12,400
Speaker 1: and sort of intended humiliation, but also issue you know,

1449
01:15:12,520 --> 01:15:15,559
Speaker 1: instances where there's an intent to deceive in some sort

1450
01:15:15,600 --> 01:15:18,200
Speaker 1: of significant way. You know, it could be with regard

1451
01:15:18,240 --> 01:15:20,680
Speaker 1: to news that's occurring or what's going on, etcetera. We've

1452
01:15:20,680 --> 01:15:23,879
Speaker 1: seen a bunch of those as well. So I wouldn't

1453
01:15:23,920 --> 01:15:25,880
Speaker 1: say that, you know, this is just like all who

1454
01:15:25,920 --> 01:15:28,040
Speaker 1: cares is Taylor Swift like wave your hand. I do

1455
01:15:28,080 --> 01:15:31,800
Speaker 1: think it raises some real issues that we've already been

1456
01:15:31,920 --> 01:15:36,000
Speaker 1: confronting about the AI era and how to regulate that

1457
01:15:36,120 --> 01:15:39,719
Speaker 1: and how to deal with that without stifling creativity without

1458
01:15:39,720 --> 01:15:43,040
Speaker 1: going down the path of censorship, et cetera, without you know,

1459
01:15:43,120 --> 01:15:47,320
Speaker 1: without like shutting down innovation and without shutting down free speech.

1460
01:15:47,680 --> 01:15:50,920
Speaker 1: I think it raises and heightens some of those questions.

1461
01:15:51,400 --> 01:15:53,839
Speaker 1: But do I particularly see it as like a crisis

1462
01:15:53,840 --> 01:15:55,320
Speaker 1: because it happened Taylor Swift.

1463
01:15:55,800 --> 01:15:58,080
Speaker 2: No, that's that's That's kind of what I wanted to

1464
01:15:58,080 --> 01:16:00,280
Speaker 2: get to because I'm getting really annoyed because everyone's acting

1465
01:16:00,320 --> 01:16:01,960
Speaker 2: as if this is the worst you know. By the way,

1466
01:16:02,000 --> 01:16:03,920
Speaker 2: I like Taylor Swift. I tried to get tickets to

1467
01:16:03,920 --> 01:16:06,000
Speaker 2: the Aras tour, just so everybody knows. I was sitting

1468
01:16:06,040 --> 01:16:08,000
Speaker 2: there with the waiting line and all of that. I'm

1469
01:16:08,040 --> 01:16:10,439
Speaker 2: a fan, Okay, So like, let's be very clear that

1470
01:16:10,560 --> 01:16:13,680
Speaker 2: said I can recognize like a moral panic whenever I

1471
01:16:13,720 --> 01:16:17,080
Speaker 2: see one. And given what Twitter did, let's put this

1472
01:16:17,160 --> 01:16:19,400
Speaker 2: up there. By the way, thank you Elon for ins

1473
01:16:19,439 --> 01:16:23,960
Speaker 2: to do this. Twitter or x blocked Taylor Swift searches

1474
01:16:24,280 --> 01:16:28,800
Speaker 2: after those fake AI videos were going viral. They literally

1475
01:16:29,120 --> 01:16:31,519
Speaker 2: did not allow you for a period of time to

1476
01:16:31,640 --> 01:16:34,280
Speaker 2: search the name Taylor Swift in the search bar so

1477
01:16:34,320 --> 01:16:37,000
Speaker 2: you could find this. This is particularly dumb because this

1478
01:16:37,080 --> 01:16:40,960
Speaker 2: happened at the exact same time as the Chiefs game yesterday,

1479
01:16:41,160 --> 01:16:44,800
Speaker 2: when many people, probably teenage girls, were searching it because

1480
01:16:44,840 --> 01:16:47,400
Speaker 2: they wanted to see her kiss Travis Kelcey or to

1481
01:16:47,479 --> 01:16:51,960
Speaker 2: hunk what's the lady's name, Mahomes whatever, Okay, Brittany, I

1482
01:16:51,960 --> 01:16:53,280
Speaker 2: think that's it, Brittany Mahomes.

1483
01:16:53,320 --> 01:16:56,559
Speaker 3: They wanted to see their reaction in the box. Okay.

1484
01:16:56,640 --> 01:16:57,320
Speaker 3: So it's like.

1485
01:16:57,479 --> 01:16:59,599
Speaker 2: You have now created Now people are gonna be like, hey,

1486
01:16:59,600 --> 01:17:02,160
Speaker 2: why can't I searched Taylor swib And now, as you

1487
01:17:02,160 --> 01:17:06,080
Speaker 2: said too, the victim here, or potential actual victims that

1488
01:17:06,120 --> 01:17:09,160
Speaker 2: we should really be worried about, are teenagers. We've seen

1489
01:17:09,200 --> 01:17:12,519
Speaker 2: a rise in teenage boys in particular killing themselves through

1490
01:17:12,680 --> 01:17:16,400
Speaker 2: some sort of like ensnarement, entrapment, things where people will

1491
01:17:16,520 --> 01:17:18,519
Speaker 2: entice them for new images. We covered it here on

1492
01:17:18,560 --> 01:17:21,759
Speaker 2: the show before. We've talked about you teenage girls. Normal women,

1493
01:17:21,960 --> 01:17:24,200
Speaker 2: that's actually the real victims. You know, in many cases

1494
01:17:24,200 --> 01:17:27,000
Speaker 2: of some of these revenge are normal women, are people

1495
01:17:27,040 --> 01:17:29,439
Speaker 2: with jobs and others who are either facing being fired,

1496
01:17:29,479 --> 01:17:32,560
Speaker 2: like teachers and others who are facing reputational damage, and

1497
01:17:32,600 --> 01:17:35,360
Speaker 2: they don't have the legal team, the police resources, NBC

1498
01:17:35,400 --> 01:17:37,519
Speaker 2: News and the CEO of Microsoft on their side.

1499
01:17:37,560 --> 01:17:39,320
Speaker 3: Most people just don't care about them at all.

1500
01:17:39,400 --> 01:17:41,559
Speaker 2: So anyway, I think that there was a major stris

1501
01:17:41,600 --> 01:17:44,400
Speaker 2: and effect going on here, and there is also a

1502
01:17:45,000 --> 01:17:46,920
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna say this again as somebody who likes Taylor,

1503
01:17:47,320 --> 01:17:51,680
Speaker 2: I am so annoyed by the NFL and even the

1504
01:17:51,720 --> 01:17:55,000
Speaker 2: New York Times and others just blatantly putting her name

1505
01:17:55,040 --> 01:17:57,400
Speaker 2: in headlines to get engagement.

1506
01:17:57,439 --> 01:17:58,719
Speaker 3: So let me give you a perfect example.

1507
01:17:58,960 --> 01:18:01,679
Speaker 2: The front page of the New York Times political section

1508
01:18:01,800 --> 01:18:05,800
Speaker 2: right now is inside Biden's anti Trump battle plan and

1509
01:18:05,880 --> 01:18:11,360
Speaker 2: where Taylor Swift fits in. Come on, I sorry, I

1510
01:18:11,400 --> 01:18:14,719
Speaker 2: looked into it. Taylor is in the tenth graph graph

1511
01:18:14,760 --> 01:18:17,840
Speaker 2: by the way means paragraph, and reporters speak it. They

1512
01:18:17,880 --> 01:18:20,000
Speaker 2: barely have a throwaway mentioned. They're like, yeah, we would

1513
01:18:20,000 --> 01:18:21,360
Speaker 2: love to get her endorsement.

1514
01:18:21,120 --> 01:18:21,680
Speaker 5: And she's in that.

1515
01:18:21,880 --> 01:18:25,280
Speaker 2: It's like stop all right, like everyone is. And but

1516
01:18:25,400 --> 01:18:27,160
Speaker 2: there's a whole right wing backlash as well. They're like

1517
01:18:27,240 --> 01:18:30,519
Speaker 2: they're trying to turn Tailor into a Biden plant and

1518
01:18:30,640 --> 01:18:33,519
Speaker 2: all of this, which may be true now this article

1519
01:18:33,560 --> 01:18:35,760
Speaker 2: has now come out. But my point is just like

1520
01:18:35,760 --> 01:18:38,200
Speaker 2: they're the amount of engagement farming that's going on off.

1521
01:18:38,200 --> 01:18:40,800
Speaker 2: This woman's name is driving me nuts. So it's a

1522
01:18:40,880 --> 01:18:43,360
Speaker 2: very long way say I'm rooting for the forty nine ers.

1523
01:18:43,560 --> 01:18:45,680
Speaker 2: I'm pro rock perty. I'm sorry that we need a

1524
01:18:45,720 --> 01:18:48,439
Speaker 2: total and complete shutdown of this shit for until we

1525
01:18:48,439 --> 01:18:49,120
Speaker 2: can figure out.

1526
01:18:49,040 --> 01:18:49,920
Speaker 3: What that is going on.

1527
01:18:50,160 --> 01:18:53,320
Speaker 1: I haven't dug in enough to really understand why there's

1528
01:18:53,360 --> 01:18:56,960
Speaker 1: been so much upset about like Taylor's affiliation with the

1529
01:18:57,040 --> 01:18:59,639
Speaker 1: cheese and white people are so like it's it became

1530
01:18:59,720 --> 01:19:03,160
Speaker 1: such a thing. I just haven't done enough research. I

1531
01:19:03,200 --> 01:19:06,439
Speaker 1: haven't cared enough to even understand what the energy is about.

1532
01:19:06,520 --> 01:19:09,240
Speaker 3: I don't watch football, but poor my friends who do.

1533
01:19:09,520 --> 01:19:11,959
Speaker 3: Here's what it is. They love the NFL. They love football.

1534
01:19:12,000 --> 01:19:15,360
Speaker 2: They're getting very annoyed because basically, whenever there's a Chiefs game,

1535
01:19:15,400 --> 01:19:19,040
Speaker 2: every time Travis Kelsey scores a touchdown or does something good,

1536
01:19:19,080 --> 01:19:21,240
Speaker 2: they just pan the box to Taylor Swift.

1537
01:19:21,320 --> 01:19:22,280
Speaker 3: It's like the Taylor Cam.

1538
01:19:22,680 --> 01:19:25,800
Speaker 2: And there has been a massive influx of people who

1539
01:19:25,840 --> 01:19:28,640
Speaker 2: are now watching and engaging with the NFL purely for

1540
01:19:28,760 --> 01:19:31,320
Speaker 2: Taylor Swift content and or memes. These are people who

1541
01:19:31,360 --> 01:19:33,960
Speaker 2: genuinely love the game. They would be watching anyways. I

1542
01:19:34,040 --> 01:19:36,120
Speaker 2: understand it to a certain extent that said, if you're

1543
01:19:36,160 --> 01:19:38,559
Speaker 2: the NFL, who cares, you know your NFL, you're good

1544
01:19:38,560 --> 01:19:38,920
Speaker 2: for them.

1545
01:19:39,240 --> 01:19:39,439
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1546
01:19:39,479 --> 01:19:42,800
Speaker 2: Well, but then there's some there are some allegations. Some

1547
01:19:42,840 --> 01:19:45,800
Speaker 2: people are saying that the NFL is actively rooting and

1548
01:19:45,920 --> 01:19:47,439
Speaker 2: intervening to try and rig it.

1549
01:19:47,479 --> 01:19:50,679
Speaker 3: So that the Chiefs would win the Super Bowl because

1550
01:19:50,720 --> 01:19:51,000
Speaker 3: they know.

1551
01:19:51,479 --> 01:19:53,559
Speaker 2: There's actually a new study that just came out yesterday

1552
01:19:53,720 --> 01:19:57,240
Speaker 2: that Taylor Swift has added three hundred and thirty million

1553
01:19:57,320 --> 01:20:00,679
Speaker 2: dollars in brand equity to the NFL and to ratings

1554
01:20:01,160 --> 01:20:04,120
Speaker 2: just in the Times since she's began dating Travis Kelsey.

1555
01:20:04,120 --> 01:20:05,640
Speaker 3: That's how powerful the brand is.

1556
01:20:05,720 --> 01:20:07,479
Speaker 2: Kelsey himself, I believe he's not one of the most

1557
01:20:07,520 --> 01:20:10,680
Speaker 2: followed people in the entire NFL on Instagram.

1558
01:20:10,800 --> 01:20:12,720
Speaker 3: It's tough too, because you know, most people don't even know.

1559
01:20:13,080 --> 01:20:15,040
Speaker 2: Most people don't even know, like he's actually incredibly good

1560
01:20:15,040 --> 01:20:17,360
Speaker 2: at his positions, but one of the all time greats.

1561
01:20:17,640 --> 01:20:19,960
Speaker 2: Then him and his brother, you know, monetizing this and

1562
01:20:20,040 --> 01:20:22,640
Speaker 2: he's appearing in Fiser commercial. So I do get why

1563
01:20:22,640 --> 01:20:24,439
Speaker 2: it's annoying if you're in the NFL. I get why

1564
01:20:24,439 --> 01:20:24,840
Speaker 2: it is annoying.

1565
01:20:24,880 --> 01:20:26,120
Speaker 3: If you love the game and you just love the

1566
01:20:26,160 --> 01:20:26,800
Speaker 3: game for its sake.

1567
01:20:28,520 --> 01:20:31,439
Speaker 1: See the attention and getting new fans in and whatever.

1568
01:20:31,520 --> 01:20:33,760
Speaker 1: To me, and that's only like, Okay, you're expanding the

1569
01:20:33,840 --> 01:20:35,800
Speaker 1: love of the sport or whatever when you get into

1570
01:20:35,960 --> 01:20:38,400
Speaker 1: I definitely don't put it past them to basically have

1571
01:20:38,479 --> 01:20:41,559
Speaker 1: the Reps throwing the games as much as they can

1572
01:20:41,800 --> 01:20:45,080
Speaker 1: for the Chiefs to keep the tailor gravy train going.

1573
01:20:45,360 --> 01:20:49,759
Speaker 1: That's that's another matter. So I could see that point.

1574
01:20:49,840 --> 01:20:53,479
Speaker 1: But I also think, to me, part of this is

1575
01:20:53,840 --> 01:20:58,560
Speaker 1: Taylor Swift occupies this strange place in our political landscape

1576
01:20:59,000 --> 01:21:01,080
Speaker 1: because for a long time, and she came up, you know,

1577
01:21:01,120 --> 01:21:05,040
Speaker 1: she's initially like this country music pop star, and for

1578
01:21:05,080 --> 01:21:08,559
Speaker 1: a long time she was completely silent on politics, partly

1579
01:21:08,600 --> 01:21:11,400
Speaker 1: because she was extremely young, right, so she's just like

1580
01:21:11,520 --> 01:21:14,080
Speaker 1: and in country music especially just like let's just not

1581
01:21:14,160 --> 01:21:18,240
Speaker 1: talk about it. And then there was this whole fantasy

1582
01:21:18,520 --> 01:21:21,880
Speaker 1: on the right that maybe she was like secretly Republican,

1583
01:21:22,320 --> 01:21:24,599
Speaker 1: secretly like really conservative or even old.

1584
01:21:24,640 --> 01:21:24,800
Speaker 3: Right.

1585
01:21:24,840 --> 01:21:28,000
Speaker 1: Remember when there was some like all right message board

1586
01:21:28,000 --> 01:21:30,640
Speaker 1: that thought they named her cat or something.

1587
01:21:30,280 --> 01:21:32,320
Speaker 4: Like crazy like that, because because she.

1588
01:21:32,360 --> 01:21:36,599
Speaker 1: Has that kind of like you know, trad look, and

1589
01:21:36,760 --> 01:21:40,320
Speaker 1: she didn't wear super skimpy clothes, and so there was

1590
01:21:40,360 --> 01:21:45,320
Speaker 1: this whole invented fantasy that perhaps secretly she's the conservative.

1591
01:21:45,920 --> 01:21:48,840
Speaker 1: And then during one of the elections, she came out

1592
01:21:48,960 --> 01:21:52,120
Speaker 1: against one of the senators who was running in Tennessee,

1593
01:21:52,400 --> 01:21:54,720
Speaker 1: Marsha Blackburn. She came out for the Democrat, and it

1594
01:21:54,800 --> 01:21:57,080
Speaker 1: kind of was like her political coming out as just

1595
01:21:57,120 --> 01:22:00,800
Speaker 1: like the most basic resistance liberal that you could possibly imagine.

1596
01:22:01,439 --> 01:22:03,600
Speaker 4: And so I think the crushed.

1597
01:22:03,240 --> 01:22:07,040
Speaker 1: Hopes that had been placed on Taylor also add to

1598
01:22:07,160 --> 01:22:10,439
Speaker 1: the upset of her involvement in, you know, any sort

1599
01:22:10,439 --> 01:22:13,080
Speaker 1: of cultural thing that some people on the right may

1600
01:22:13,120 --> 01:22:15,040
Speaker 1: be involved with, because it seems like most of the

1601
01:22:15,400 --> 01:22:17,200
Speaker 1: anti Taylor energy is coming from the right.

1602
01:22:17,240 --> 01:22:19,240
Speaker 2: If I'm not mistaken, it is now because she did

1603
01:22:19,360 --> 01:22:21,360
Speaker 2: endorse Biden and there's some photo of her holding like

1604
01:22:21,400 --> 01:22:23,760
Speaker 2: Biden cookies. I will say, if she does endorse Biden

1605
01:22:23,800 --> 01:22:25,439
Speaker 2: and she appears with them, she's going to fulfill these

1606
01:22:25,439 --> 01:22:27,360
Speaker 2: people's wildest dreams, because a lot of them have been

1607
01:22:27,360 --> 01:22:29,760
Speaker 2: saying they're like, she's a Biden plant, and all I think,

1608
01:22:30,200 --> 01:22:30,519
Speaker 2: I mean.

1609
01:22:30,439 --> 01:22:33,400
Speaker 1: That's not a secret, Like she is just a basic Democrat,

1610
01:22:33,640 --> 01:22:35,639
Speaker 1: a basic since liberal democrat.

1611
01:22:35,680 --> 01:22:37,120
Speaker 4: I don't think that's a surprise anyone.

1612
01:22:37,160 --> 01:22:37,800
Speaker 3: Absolutely right.

1613
01:22:37,800 --> 01:22:40,200
Speaker 2: In fact, I think her genuine appeal is that she's

1614
01:22:40,320 --> 01:22:42,599
Speaker 2: like as normal as it gets. And I don't mean

1615
01:22:42,640 --> 01:22:45,280
Speaker 2: in terms of like fame or whatever. I mean in

1616
01:22:45,320 --> 01:22:48,439
Speaker 2: terms of her like tastes others. She's one of the

1617
01:22:48,479 --> 01:22:51,760
Speaker 2: most classic millennials. She still uses Gandalf references just to

1618
01:22:51,800 --> 01:22:55,040
Speaker 2: everyone be as clear a more a recent interview that

1619
01:22:55,080 --> 01:22:57,439
Speaker 2: she did with Time magazine. So anyway, we've given you

1620
01:22:57,479 --> 01:23:00,640
Speaker 2: as much Taylor news as we said, as you know,

1621
01:23:00,920 --> 01:23:04,080
Speaker 2: much the chagrin of our crew, one of whom is

1622
01:23:04,120 --> 01:23:06,200
Speaker 2: a diehard Chiefs fan. I'm going for the forty nine

1623
01:23:06,240 --> 01:23:08,960
Speaker 2: ers now. I can't handle the tailor. I can't handle

1624
01:23:08,960 --> 01:23:11,800
Speaker 2: a tailor media cycle from the Super Bowl. I just can't.

1625
01:23:11,360 --> 01:23:14,519
Speaker 1: And you won't be able to shake it off. I

1626
01:23:14,520 --> 01:23:16,519
Speaker 1: will got to be some trouble for.

1627
01:23:16,479 --> 01:23:17,080
Speaker 4: You, Soccer.

1628
01:23:17,160 --> 01:23:18,639
Speaker 3: It'll be some of my wildest dreams.

1629
01:23:19,760 --> 01:23:24,000
Speaker 4: There you go, all right, Tcager, what do you look

1630
01:23:24,000 --> 01:23:24,240
Speaker 4: at at?

1631
01:23:24,479 --> 01:23:24,839
Speaker 3: Well?

1632
01:23:24,880 --> 01:23:26,920
Speaker 2: Several years ago, I was having dinner with some of

1633
01:23:26,920 --> 01:23:29,880
Speaker 2: my friends almost immediately after Trump was elected in twenty sixteen,

1634
01:23:30,080 --> 01:23:32,639
Speaker 2: Washington was still in haze and people couldn't quite believe

1635
01:23:32,640 --> 01:23:34,960
Speaker 2: what had happened. We did, however, have enough data to

1636
01:23:34,960 --> 01:23:37,640
Speaker 2: see some pretty profound shifts in the American electorate, and

1637
01:23:37,720 --> 01:23:40,360
Speaker 2: someone asked the table what strategy that they would pursue

1638
01:23:40,360 --> 01:23:43,360
Speaker 2: to make sure the GOP won every election going forward.

1639
01:23:43,680 --> 01:23:45,960
Speaker 2: Because I had just looked at the gender voting numbers

1640
01:23:45,960 --> 01:23:49,200
Speaker 2: for Trump, noting especially his increase slight at that time

1641
01:23:49,360 --> 01:23:51,920
Speaker 2: strength amongst black and Hispanic men, I just joked the

1642
01:23:51,920 --> 01:23:55,000
Speaker 2: GOP should just become a party of non college educated men.

1643
01:23:55,320 --> 01:23:57,280
Speaker 3: Over the years, I'm reminded more and more of that.

1644
01:23:57,240 --> 01:23:59,960
Speaker 2: Comment, because so much data is now showing that genuine

1645
01:24:00,240 --> 01:24:02,760
Speaker 2: might be the best long term strategy they have, not

1646
01:24:02,840 --> 01:24:05,320
Speaker 2: just for the GOP, but really for right wing movements

1647
01:24:05,360 --> 01:24:07,880
Speaker 2: across the world. I couldn't even get this data out

1648
01:24:07,920 --> 01:24:11,040
Speaker 2: of my head when pursuing some new ones compiled by

1649
01:24:11,040 --> 01:24:14,439
Speaker 2: the Financial Times. It shows a global realignment of young

1650
01:24:14,479 --> 01:24:17,679
Speaker 2: men across the world far more conservative than their female

1651
01:24:17,760 --> 01:24:20,559
Speaker 2: peers and becoming so. Consider that in the US, in

1652
01:24:20,560 --> 01:24:22,799
Speaker 2: the UK, and Germany there is now a nearly twenty

1653
01:24:22,880 --> 01:24:26,240
Speaker 2: percent spread between gen Z men and women in conservative

1654
01:24:26,280 --> 01:24:29,880
Speaker 2: versus liberal identification. In other developed countries like South Korea,

1655
01:24:29,920 --> 01:24:32,200
Speaker 2: for reference, the split is even more pronounced as those

1656
01:24:32,240 --> 01:24:34,760
Speaker 2: of You can see. Data not included in the chart, though,

1657
01:24:34,880 --> 01:24:38,560
Speaker 2: shows that the same holds true in places like Poland, Tunisia,

1658
01:24:38,600 --> 01:24:41,439
Speaker 2: and China. So, in other words, it's a global trend,

1659
01:24:41,600 --> 01:24:44,599
Speaker 2: encompassing the West and the east. All of this makes

1660
01:24:44,640 --> 01:24:47,160
Speaker 2: sense in the flat and cultural environment that we live

1661
01:24:47,160 --> 01:24:49,760
Speaker 2: in today. Trump was not just America's president. He was

1662
01:24:49,800 --> 01:24:52,960
Speaker 2: a global figure on which politics and culture bifurcated. The

1663
01:24:53,080 --> 01:24:56,320
Speaker 2: key catalyst identified by the Financial Times is the twenty

1664
01:24:56,439 --> 01:24:59,759
Speaker 2: seventeen Me Too movement for global politics. It's worth actually

1665
01:24:59,800 --> 01:25:02,559
Speaker 2: ta that out and considering the major effect that male

1666
01:25:02,560 --> 01:25:05,840
Speaker 2: realignment is having on politics in the US. In the

1667
01:25:05,840 --> 01:25:08,960
Speaker 2: twenty twenty election, for example, Trump increased his vote share

1668
01:25:09,000 --> 01:25:12,080
Speaker 2: of every single demographic group in the country except with

1669
01:25:12,120 --> 01:25:16,400
Speaker 2: one college educated white men. He won much larger percentages

1670
01:25:16,400 --> 01:25:18,960
Speaker 2: of votes with Latino men and black men, so much

1671
01:25:18,960 --> 01:25:21,639
Speaker 2: so he's actually able to switch large swats of counties

1672
01:25:21,880 --> 01:25:24,880
Speaker 2: in South Texas and of course turn the tide in Florida. Now,

1673
01:25:24,880 --> 01:25:26,640
Speaker 2: don't get me wrong, he still lost a majority of

1674
01:25:26,680 --> 01:25:28,840
Speaker 2: Latino male vote and the black mail vote, but as

1675
01:25:28,920 --> 01:25:31,960
Speaker 2: Democratic strategists will admit, privately winning the black vote by

1676
01:25:32,040 --> 01:25:34,719
Speaker 2: seventy five points as opposed to ninety points is actually

1677
01:25:34,720 --> 01:25:37,120
Speaker 2: a make or break in the entire electoral college. Now,

1678
01:25:37,200 --> 01:25:39,559
Speaker 2: let's actually start to look to the future. Combine gen

1679
01:25:39,680 --> 01:25:42,439
Speaker 2: Z data from the Financial Times with some important social trends,

1680
01:25:42,479 --> 01:25:45,439
Speaker 2: that we see a picture of some actually bad politics ahead.

1681
01:25:45,680 --> 01:25:48,280
Speaker 2: I've said at nauseum the single best predictor of how

1682
01:25:48,320 --> 01:25:50,519
Speaker 2: you voted in twenty twenty is whether you have a

1683
01:25:50,600 --> 01:25:53,519
Speaker 2: four year college degree or not. In the past, college

1684
01:25:53,520 --> 01:25:56,719
Speaker 2: degrees were equally ish split amongst genders, but the future

1685
01:25:56,800 --> 01:25:58,800
Speaker 2: data tells us that is not the case. Over the

1686
01:25:58,840 --> 01:26:01,719
Speaker 2: last five years, female enrollment in college has either spiked

1687
01:26:01,800 --> 01:26:05,280
Speaker 2: or stayed the same, while male college enrollment has plummeted.

1688
01:26:05,479 --> 01:26:08,040
Speaker 2: There are a variety of factors behind why. Perhaps the

1689
01:26:08,080 --> 01:26:11,439
Speaker 2: main one is that men just feel increasingly unwelcome in

1690
01:26:11,520 --> 01:26:15,759
Speaker 2: college educated, politically correct environments. The problem for our future

1691
01:26:15,760 --> 01:26:18,400
Speaker 2: politics is that the four year college degree is not

1692
01:26:18,479 --> 01:26:21,599
Speaker 2: just an education, It is mostly a cultural finishing school.

1693
01:26:21,800 --> 01:26:24,439
Speaker 2: People who go to college have vastly different priorities and

1694
01:26:24,520 --> 01:26:25,559
Speaker 2: interest in those who do not.

1695
01:26:26,000 --> 01:26:27,519
Speaker 3: Neither is better, it's just different.

1696
01:26:27,680 --> 01:26:30,360
Speaker 2: As female college entrollment is now trending in the direction

1697
01:26:30,400 --> 01:26:32,559
Speaker 2: of a two to one ratio. You can see how

1698
01:26:32,600 --> 01:26:35,120
Speaker 2: this is going to split electorally. On the other side

1699
01:26:35,120 --> 01:26:37,080
Speaker 2: of the spectrum, you have many men who are eschewing

1700
01:26:37,160 --> 01:26:40,440
Speaker 2: college and who are pursuing a very different tract economically.

1701
01:26:40,760 --> 01:26:43,320
Speaker 2: This is where policy fights and others could manifest themselves

1702
01:26:43,360 --> 01:26:47,120
Speaker 2: in the future. For example, already today women outnumber men

1703
01:26:47,240 --> 01:26:51,120
Speaker 2: amongst a college educated workforce. This is predominantly white collar,

1704
01:26:51,360 --> 01:26:54,719
Speaker 2: meaning their concerns over worker protection rights and general conception

1705
01:26:54,800 --> 01:26:57,320
Speaker 2: of economic life is going to be vastly different than

1706
01:26:57,320 --> 01:26:59,519
Speaker 2: those who are in the trades, in the service industry

1707
01:26:59,600 --> 01:27:02,720
Speaker 2: or those who run a small business. Perhaps even more importantly,

1708
01:27:02,800 --> 01:27:06,639
Speaker 2: I really fear for our culture demographic trends. Already today,

1709
01:27:06,680 --> 01:27:10,240
Speaker 2: the vast majority of young men are single, with younger

1710
01:27:10,280 --> 01:27:12,320
Speaker 2: women who are deciding to simply date men who are

1711
01:27:12,320 --> 01:27:15,080
Speaker 2: older than them for a variety of reasons, most likely

1712
01:27:15,200 --> 01:27:18,559
Speaker 2: economic ones. The more our economy, culture, and politics are

1713
01:27:18,600 --> 01:27:21,439
Speaker 2: splitting amongst gender lines, the more we drive each other

1714
01:27:21,479 --> 01:27:24,479
Speaker 2: apart at a most human of levels. Couple that actually

1715
01:27:24,479 --> 01:27:27,120
Speaker 2: with a loneliness crisis amongst men, and I'm foreseeing a

1716
01:27:27,160 --> 01:27:30,000
Speaker 2: future of single angry men who are driving one party

1717
01:27:30,120 --> 01:27:32,800
Speaker 2: and single angry women in another that's not not really

1718
01:27:32,840 --> 01:27:34,599
Speaker 2: a future that I want to live in more and

1719
01:27:34,640 --> 01:27:36,920
Speaker 2: more though it seems to be very likely.

1720
01:27:37,200 --> 01:27:38,439
Speaker 3: I'm curious what you think, christ.

1721
01:27:38,439 --> 01:27:41,200
Speaker 1: And if you want to hear my reaction to Sager's monologue,

1722
01:27:41,240 --> 01:27:47,040
Speaker 1: become a premium subscriber today at Breakingpoints dot Com.

1723
01:27:47,280 --> 01:27:49,200
Speaker 3: Okay, we really enjoyed the show today, Christal.

1724
01:27:49,240 --> 01:27:50,880
Speaker 2: I believe you're going to be remote tomorrow as well

1725
01:27:50,920 --> 01:27:54,240
Speaker 2: as your kids continue to recuperate, but they are doing

1726
01:27:54,479 --> 01:27:56,599
Speaker 2: the men and we've gotten a lot of well wishes

1727
01:27:56,640 --> 01:27:57,680
Speaker 2: for you, so we want to.

1728
01:27:57,680 --> 01:27:58,519
Speaker 3: Thank everybody for that.

1729
01:27:58,640 --> 01:27:58,800
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1730
01:27:58,840 --> 01:28:02,200
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I really appreciate did those well wishes. As you said, Soccer,

1731
01:28:02,720 --> 01:28:05,320
Speaker 1: we are on the end. Everybody's going to be good,

1732
01:28:05,439 --> 01:28:08,840
Speaker 1: so that's the most important thing. And I will be

1733
01:28:08,880 --> 01:28:10,640
Speaker 1: remote tomorrow, but we will have a regular show and

1734
01:28:10,680 --> 01:28:12,519
Speaker 1: we will see you the guys then all right, we'll

1735
01:28:12,520 --> 01:28:13,040
Speaker 1: see you later.