Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet, as a production
Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio and Unbust Creative. I'm Bridget Tod
Speaker 1: and this is there Are No Girls on the Internet. Hello,
Speaker 1: how have you been? Probably not great because it feels
Speaker 1: like the whole world is on fire. This week, Texas
Speaker 1: passed over six hundred new laws, and a good bit
Speaker 1: of those laws are based on the kind of escalating
Speaker 1: myths and disinformation, conspiracy theories, social media field culture wars,
Speaker 1: in scaremongering that we've spent the last year breaking down
Speaker 1: on this very podcast. There is a lot to be
Speaker 1: mad about, so let's get into it now. A lot
Speaker 1: of people are rightfully talking about s B eight, the
Speaker 1: law limiting abortion access in Texas, which we'll get into
Speaker 1: in distant moment, but that is not the only legislation
Speaker 1: in Texas that shows what happens when disinformation becomes codified
Speaker 1: into law. The Texas legislature also passed h B seventy nine,
Speaker 1: which banns school teachers from discussing systemic racism and current
Speaker 1: events in class. It also outright bands the teaching of
Speaker 1: the sixteen nineteen project. As you will recall, Nicole Hannah
Speaker 1: Jones is sixteen nineteen project became the target of right
Speaker 1: wing racists. There's also a new law that allows anyone
Speaker 1: over the age of twenty one to carry a gun
Speaker 1: without training or a license, as long as they're not
Speaker 1: already legally prevented from doing so. So basically, yes to guns,
Speaker 1: no two abortions. Then there's just a bunch of ridiculous
Speaker 1: culture war stuff like the so called stars a bangled
Speaker 1: banner at a law that requires professional sports teams in
Speaker 1: Texas with state funding to play the national anthem before games,
Speaker 1: which I'm sure, as the pandemic rages is the most
Speaker 1: pressing issue in the minds of most Americans right now.
Speaker 1: So let's get into s B eight. Texas is new
Speaker 1: law that severely restricts abortion access. This law is bad,
Speaker 1: and it's what abortion advocates have been warning about for years.
Speaker 1: The law prevents abortions as early a six weeks into pregnancy. Now,
Speaker 1: many have been calling this a six week abortion ban,
Speaker 1: but the way we're talking about it is really imprecise,
Speaker 1: and that seems like it might be by design. It
Speaker 1: isn't six weeks after you get a positive pregnancy test.
Speaker 1: It's actually six weeks after the first day of your
Speaker 1: last period, So that quote six weeks is actually four
Speaker 1: weeks after conception, in just two weeks after your missed period.
Speaker 1: That's right before many pregnancy tests that you'd buy in
Speaker 1: a store would even be able to tell you that
Speaker 1: you're pregnant at all. So that would only really leave
Speaker 1: you with two weeks to suspect that you may be pregnant,
Speaker 1: get a positive pregnancy test, make an appointment, have an ultrasound,
Speaker 1: wait twenty four hours, and then have a second appointment
Speaker 1: with the same provider to comply with Texas law. So
Speaker 1: basically the window to get a legal abortion is basically
Speaker 1: so narrow it's close is before most people would even
Speaker 1: though they're pregnant in the first place. And this is
Speaker 1: only if your period comes like clockworks each cycle. But
Speaker 1: we know many people have a regular periods. It's a
Speaker 1: totally normal thing. But this law ignores that medical reality,
Speaker 1: and it's based instead on fictions about how our bodies work.
Speaker 1: Even the way these laws are framed as so called
Speaker 1: heartbeat bills restricting abortion when there's a fetal heartbeat are
Speaker 1: distortions about the reality of pregnancy. The quote feel heartbeat
Speaker 1: talking point is just misinformation intended to deceive and even
Speaker 1: the press false for it by repeating it at six
Speaker 1: weeks of fetal development. There is no heart to have
Speaker 1: a heartbeat. Doctors say the sound that Republican lawmakers are
Speaker 1: inaccurately calling a heartbeat is actually just the motion of
Speaker 1: an electrical pulse in a growth known as the fetal poll.
Speaker 1: But Republican lawmakers know that using this inaccurate language makes
Speaker 1: an early stage abortion seem like a shameful a moral
Speaker 1: choice rather than just a commonplace medical procedure, which is
Speaker 1: why they use this deceptive language in the first place.
Speaker 1: So this law is definitely based on complete fictions and
Speaker 1: lies about our bodies and how they work. But ten
Speaker 1: isn't even the worst part. So just who enforces this law?
Speaker 1: The state? The government? Oh, no, much worse any private citizen.
Speaker 1: Let me say that another way, any random asshole. This
Speaker 1: law allows private individuals to sue abortion providers or anyone
Speaker 1: who assists in providing an abortion for up to ten
Speaker 1: thou dollars. It doesn't matter if the person suing as
Speaker 1: an abuse of X, a rapist, or just some random
Speaker 1: stranger with no connection to the person getting an abortion whatsoever.
Speaker 1: It essentially creates a bounty for abortion providers or people
Speaker 1: who assist in abortions. And yeah, it can even be
Speaker 1: used to sue an uber driver who drives you to
Speaker 1: an abortion appointment. There's already a tipline website asking people
Speaker 1: to turn in people they suspect of aiding an abortions. So, yes,
Speaker 1: things are pretty bad. But honestly, this is nothing new.
Speaker 1: The anti choice movement has always used lies and distortions
Speaker 1: to pass laws restricting abortion access. Now why do they
Speaker 1: do this, Well, it's because most people actually support abortion access,
Speaker 1: so anti choice advocates they have to turn to lies
Speaker 1: in order to sway the public. But y'all, this is
Speaker 1: not just about Texas. We've seen more laws restricting abortion
Speaker 1: access this year than in any other previous year. This
Speaker 1: is according to a study by the Gootmacher Institute. It's
Speaker 1: just part of a national agenda to end abortion access
Speaker 1: in this country. This Texas law sets a dangerous legal
Speaker 1: precedent and could create a path for other states to
Speaker 1: make abortions unattainable to people who need them. And we
Speaker 1: expect to see similar bills introducing states across the country.
Speaker 1: And honestly, it's not even really just about abortion from
Speaker 1: laws attacking trans youth and immigrants and queer folks. This
Speaker 1: is yet another in a series of legislation fueled by
Speaker 1: distortion and lies. The power of lies and disinformation was
Speaker 1: on full display earlier this year when states were passing
Speaker 1: laws of rolling back voting rights in response to the
Speaker 1: complete fiction that election results were rigged because too many
Speaker 1: black and brown folks voted. Now, we told you about
Speaker 1: this earlier this year in an interview with a Noah Chanda,
Speaker 1: a Georgia based journalist, about how these attacks are not
Speaker 1: just about voting or abortion, but rather a coordinated network
Speaker 1: of attacks on marginalized people and our democracy. So let's
Speaker 1: revisit what happens and who gets harmed when disinformation is
Speaker 1: codified into law. We've talked a lot about disinformation this season,
Speaker 1: but what happens when lies and distortions actually become law. Well,
Speaker 1: that's exactly what's happening in Georgia. Trump's big lie that
Speaker 1: he won the election and it was being stolen from
Speaker 1: him is being used to fuel a sweeping new law
Speaker 1: that many advocates say creates barriers to voting that will
Speaker 1: make it harder for all Georgians to vote. But it
Speaker 1: doesn't start there. I just want to find uh eleven
Speaker 1: thousand seven votes, which is one more that we have
Speaker 1: because we won the state, and flipping the state is
Speaker 1: a great testament to our country. On January two, Trump
Speaker 1: had a now infamous phone call with Georgia's Secretary of
Speaker 1: State Brad Raffensburger, where he falsely maintained that he'd won
Speaker 1: the election in Georgia and pressured Raefensburger to quote find
Speaker 1: more votes in an attempt to make that fiction a reality.
Speaker 1: In the end, Raefensburger certified the election results because there
Speaker 1: wasn't a reason not to. After a statewide audit of
Speaker 1: election results, Raefensburger himself said that George's historic first statewide
Speaker 1: audit reaffirmed that the state's new secure paper ballot voting
Speaker 1: system accurately counted and reported the results, so, according to him,
Speaker 1: the election was secure. And yet, the so called should
Speaker 1: Integrity Act was signed into law by Governor Brian Kemp.
Speaker 1: This law makes massive changes to how and when folks
Speaker 1: can vote in Georgia. Now. Kemp said this law was
Speaker 1: necessary to boost confidence in quote secure, accessible, in fair elections,
Speaker 1: but if his own secretary of State says the Georgia
Speaker 1: election results were accurate. The most really going on. Well,
Speaker 1: this is an example of what happens when disinformation becomes
Speaker 1: codified into law. Despite what Trump said in that phone call,
Speaker 1: there was no voter fraud or election fraud in Georgia,
Speaker 1: but that didn't stop the Georgia legislature from passing this
Speaker 1: bill that voting rights advocates say will overwhelmingly create barriers
Speaker 1: that keep black and brown Georgians from voting. And it
Speaker 1: was all based on a big lie. It's so important
Speaker 1: that we talk about this law for what it is
Speaker 1: and the impact it will have on Georgians, which is
Speaker 1: something a Noah Changa nos firsthand. It was really rooted
Speaker 1: itself determination for me. In see, Georgia was facing a
Speaker 1: closely watched Democratic primary for governor, which mean Stacy Abrams,
Speaker 1: a black woman who if she had won, would have
Speaker 1: become the country's first black woman governor, and Stacy Evans,
Speaker 1: a white Georgia state representative. Both candidates were speaking at
Speaker 1: Netroots Nation, the largest gathering of progressive political organizers in
Speaker 1: the country, which was being held in Atlanta. Now, something
Speaker 1: to know about netroots is that there is always a protest.
Speaker 1: It's basically expected at this point, and speeches always get
Speaker 1: interrupted by shouting. It's happened to Bernie Sanders, Joe Biden,
Speaker 1: and Elizabeth Warren and Martin O'Malley. It's a thing. In
Speaker 1: two seventeen at net Roots, I was a part of
Speaker 1: group of folks who you know, led a protest to
Speaker 1: shut down um a speech that was being given by
Speaker 1: Stacy Evans, who was at the time running against Stacy
Speaker 1: Abrams for governor. And a lot of people thought it
Speaker 1: was just a bunch of oh's Stacy Abrams supporters who
Speaker 1: were shutting down this white woman. But that like, at
Speaker 1: the time, I wasn't even like a Stacy fan. I
Speaker 1: wasn't even I was like, I'll probably vote for her.
Speaker 1: But it wasn't anything, and so many folks what it
Speaker 1: was was really about Stacy Evans was trying to be
Speaker 1: positioned as like the more progressive choice, and she had
Speaker 1: a bunch of votes, including some long education which were
Speaker 1: extremely problematic when she had was not being held accountable
Speaker 1: on and that day at net Route, she was speaking
Speaker 1: before Becky Pringle, who was then the vice president of
Speaker 1: the n e A in the National Education Association. So
Speaker 1: you're someone who has been pro charter school UM, pro
Speaker 1: you know, removing money out of education. You voted against
Speaker 1: the interests of teachers, students, families, unions. And you're speaking
Speaker 1: ahead of like this prominent national black woman that has
Speaker 1: been this advocate for education. That's a Noah alongside a
Speaker 1: group of black women interrupting Stacy Evans's planned speech. They're
Speaker 1: chanting trust black women. The incident came up in a
Speaker 1: tense debate, but between Evans and Abrams, with Evans maintaining
Speaker 1: that what happened at net Roots was not a peaceful
Speaker 1: protest and kind of implying that the group was affiliated
Speaker 1: with the Stacey Abrams campaign. And I support the right
Speaker 1: of folks to peacefully protest. That wasn't what happened in
Speaker 1: that roots. And if something like that had happened to
Speaker 1: my opponent, whether the group was affiliated, unaffiliated, slightly affiliated,
Speaker 1: not affiliated at all, I would have stood up and
Speaker 1: said that it was wrong. But remember Noah says she
Speaker 1: wasn't even a big Abrams supporter at the time. Reporters
Speaker 1: just didn't really bother to talk to her or the
Speaker 1: group or find out more about their motivations. Or message
Speaker 1: and why they interrupted the speech. They just kind of
Speaker 1: ran with whatever. And this was hugely instructive for Noah.
Speaker 1: Now that didn't translate the way we thought it would, unfortunately,
Speaker 1: because no one in the media even cared to talk
Speaker 1: to us, to ask any of us about what happened.
Speaker 1: The way media reacted, like, especially local media here Georgia,
Speaker 1: ran with a particular narrative. I mean you even had
Speaker 1: like one one article written that just because I knew
Speaker 1: someone who was on staff senior staff at Stacy's campaign,
Speaker 1: we had worked together previously, that because of that previous
Speaker 1: work relationship, they put me up to it without understanding
Speaker 1: that Also, when you're talking about black progressive political work,
Speaker 1: there's so few people in these spaces. Whether you're working
Speaker 1: in black orbs or white lead orgs, it's just not
Speaker 1: that many of us. We all end up either knowing
Speaker 1: each other directly or having people in common. So that
Speaker 1: experience really taught me about the power and necessity for
Speaker 1: telling our own stories um making sure our voices were
Speaker 1: being heard. Today. A Noah is a pretty prolific independent
Speaker 1: journalist who covers elections and local politics in Georgia, but
Speaker 1: instead of covering them like a horse race between two politicians.
Speaker 1: She centers the people impacted by the policies, people whose
Speaker 1: stories are often overlooked in favor of stories about political
Speaker 1: points scoring and posturing. And when it comes to the
Speaker 1: new voting legislation in Georgia, this also means pointing out
Speaker 1: a lot of lies and the story sans when we're
Speaker 1: looking at what's happening here in this law. Like I
Speaker 1: was saying, yes, you have the lies from the different
Speaker 1: state representatives and state senators, you have the lies from
Speaker 1: the various um election officials you know, in varied capacities.
Speaker 1: But you have also our our governor, who was the
Speaker 1: former secretary of State, who is known for his own
Speaker 1: shegnanigans and foolishness. But I mean he's someone who actually
Speaker 1: lied ahead of his own election for governor. The weekend
Speaker 1: ahead of his election for governor, he lied and said
Speaker 1: that Stacy Abrams campaign and Democrats were trying to hack
Speaker 1: the state of Georgia, which was not true. An investigation
Speaker 1: later revealed that it was not true, and he has
Speaker 1: never been held accountable that. So we know Brian Camp
Speaker 1: lies on the regular rad Raeferensberger also has fell into
Speaker 1: this hole. Of trying to appease his party and play
Speaker 1: cating and and and twisting, you know, rhetoric. It's one
Speaker 1: thing to deal with and be able to point out
Speaker 1: a bold faced lie, which we've seen in this testimony
Speaker 1: from Rudy Julie Annie when he was in these various
Speaker 1: hearings in Michigan and here in Georgia, which we've seen Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: even in some of the testimony or some of the
Speaker 1: conversations happening in chambers in the passage of these bills
Speaker 1: by Republican elected officials. And I often harp on the
Speaker 1: Secretary State because everyone has in terms of national media,
Speaker 1: has like lionized him and made him this very important figure.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, he gives credence and he
Speaker 1: finds ways to give legitimacy, even though he has certified
Speaker 1: the election, even though he has acknowledged there's no widespread fraud,
Speaker 1: even though he acknowledged that this is the most secure
Speaker 1: election George has ever had, all these other things, he
Speaker 1: will still say things that leave opened the door that
Speaker 1: act like there is legitimate concern. I mean, just even
Speaker 1: the widespread reporting or fraud that was happening, it was
Speaker 1: an issue at some point, it's not just simply that
Speaker 1: people don't know the process, that don't understand what's going on,
Speaker 1: and people are being willfully up to. As I have
Speaker 1: for more than twenty five years, I will stand with
Speaker 1: my fellow Georgians in pursuit of fairness. You see, I
Speaker 1: did so as a college student, speaking in the shadow
Speaker 1: of Abraham Lincoln and Martin Luther King Jr. I did
Speaker 1: so as Democratic leader of the House of Representatives, and
Speaker 1: now I will do so as a private citizen. In
Speaker 1: the ten gubernatorial election in Georgia, Stacy Abrams acknowledged that
Speaker 1: her opponent, Brian Kemp would be the next governor of Georgia.
Speaker 1: I watched her speech from Atlanta, where full disclosure, I
Speaker 1: spent time in the state knocking doors for a campaign.
Speaker 1: During the election, Brian Kemp was Georgia's Secretary of State,
Speaker 1: which meant that he was in charge of overseeing his
Speaker 1: own election. As a Secretary of State, Kemp purged over
Speaker 1: one point or a million and active voters, with low
Speaker 1: income and black Georgians being the most likely to have
Speaker 1: their registrations canceled. He also oversaw fifty three thousand voter
Speaker 1: registrations being put on hold thanks to Georgia's exact match
Speaker 1: policy that flags registrations from voters with any kind of
Speaker 1: named discrepancy in state data basis. So if you registered
Speaker 1: for your first learners permit with your first and middle
Speaker 1: name and then registered to vote with just your first name,
Speaker 1: you would be flagged. According to the Associated Press, nearly
Speaker 1: seventy of those voter registrations on hold were black voters,
Speaker 1: despite the state's population only being about black. Now. Because
Speaker 1: of all this, Abrams has said the teen gubernatorial election
Speaker 1: was stolen from the Georgia voters. After the race, she
Speaker 1: formed Fair Fight, an organization aimed at increasing voter turnout
Speaker 1: and ensuring that all votes are accurately counted. It was
Speaker 1: hugely successful, and their work is often credited with securing
Speaker 1: the historic Democratic wins and Georgia this past election. But
Speaker 1: here's where things get tricky. Current Secretary of State Brad
Speaker 1: Raffensburger has compared what Abrams did to Trump's refusal to
Speaker 1: concede and pressuring officials to quote fine votes. In a
Speaker 1: recent USA Today op ed, he calls Trump's refusal to
Speaker 1: concede a page out of Stacy Abrams's playbook, writing abrams
Speaker 1: refusal to concede and her dogmatic conviction that her election
Speaker 1: was stolen had done significant damage to trust an election
Speaker 1: of tecrity in Georgia. You have Rappensburger recently writing an
Speaker 1: op ed in the USA Today, and in part of
Speaker 1: the rhetoric from him and UM, one of his staffers,
Speaker 1: Gabe Sterling blamey Stacy Abers, is saying that her fight
Speaker 1: around this way eighteen election and ongoing lawsuit in the
Speaker 1: work of fair fight is the same as Donald Trump, right,
Speaker 1: that false equivalency. And so while that's not like the
Speaker 1: exactly the same as the outright bold face line like
Speaker 1: saying like, oh there was massive fraud happening in Fulton
Speaker 1: County or whatever, at the same time, it still lends credence,
Speaker 1: it still gives legitimacy. And because they did, you have
Speaker 1: the one brave stand, which really was a matter of
Speaker 1: I don't want to go to jail because that's hella illegal,
Speaker 1: Like I mean, let's just be real, like Brad, Brad
Speaker 1: did not. Brad did everything else in his power. Brad
Speaker 1: didn't want to go to jail because that's like telling
Speaker 1: someone to go find some votes. The same scandal like,
Speaker 1: that's jail right, let this real life. It's so, But
Speaker 1: they will they will still craft narratives, they still will
Speaker 1: shift things that still give support. And then people who
Speaker 1: are like, oh, well, he's a Secretary of State, he's
Speaker 1: selected official, he should get some deference, will cover a
Speaker 1: report what he says and does as if it's legitimate concern,
Speaker 1: when in fact it's really just also in the furtherance
Speaker 1: of the Republican agenda, which we have seen very clearly
Speaker 1: over this past year. But I mean you and I
Speaker 1: you know, as folks who have been digging in and
Speaker 1: and focusing and looking at the scourge that is disinformation,
Speaker 1: have seen how deeply entrenched and widespread it has been,
Speaker 1: particularly over the past several years, and the very deep
Speaker 1: uh digital networks and that already exists in like you know,
Speaker 1: liberals and the left and progressives are way behind the
Speaker 1: eight ball. We react, unfortunately to things where these people
Speaker 1: are very strategic. I mean, even I was reading article
Speaker 1: this morning about one of the lawyers that was representing
Speaker 1: Trump with all that nonsense. She was actually one of
Speaker 1: the years on that infamous phone call is now um
Speaker 1: heading up or at least co leading one of the
Speaker 1: efforts to attack HR one. And so it's not just Georgia, right,
Speaker 1: you see this coordinated GOP attack on voting rights and
Speaker 1: really on democracy at this point when we are having
Speaker 1: people lie and having those lives and shrined into law,
Speaker 1: and and I mean folks and say it happens in
Speaker 1: other capacities, but what's happening right now in terms of
Speaker 1: elections and election reform and how we are treating false
Speaker 1: allegations as valid considerations for law passing law. It's a
Speaker 1: very scary precedent as being set right now. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's so sad, but that's really been Trump's legacy. You know,
Speaker 1: after the election, I saw this pull from our Street
Speaker 1: that said that two thirds of Republicans say presidential election
Speaker 1: was invalid. And I think that's kind of the point
Speaker 1: of this kind of disinformation, to make people really distrust
Speaker 1: our democratic process to the point where they just sort
Speaker 1: of check out. Even in states where Trump one, right,
Speaker 1: we're still seeing that happening in unfold right, Like in Iowa.
Speaker 1: We're still seeing a Republican majority in Iowa even though
Speaker 1: Trump won that state. Let's take a quick break back.
Speaker 1: Democrats have their own legislation to expand voting rights called
Speaker 1: HR one, which should expand access to voting by making
Speaker 1: election day and national holiday, offering online and automatic registration
Speaker 1: for anyone who wanted it, and prohibit the kind of
Speaker 1: voter purchase that we saw before the governor's race in
Speaker 1: Georgia from taking place less than six months before an election. Now,
Speaker 1: even though we're talking about voting rights, and Noah says,
Speaker 1: it's about much more than that. She says, it's about
Speaker 1: a coordinated right wing attack on democracy, like the waves
Speaker 1: of anti trans and anti abortion bills we've seen in
Speaker 1: some states, and any attack on identities is a directed
Speaker 1: hact on democracies. Like we're still seeing them them push
Speaker 1: through these types of laws. We're seeing it in Mississippi
Speaker 1: and Missouri, Like we're still seeing in areas that even
Speaker 1: like they're seizing, this isn't just about like, oh, we're
Speaker 1: upset because this happened. This is a real opportunity point
Speaker 1: for them. And this is like I really do think
Speaker 1: that we we ignore, we forget, like there's so much
Speaker 1: with so much focus on Trump and resistance and getting
Speaker 1: Trump out of office, that these state legislatures, these states,
Speaker 1: you know, capitals and governor seats. We've ignored the way
Speaker 1: in which that very in deeply entrenched rhetoric has permeated
Speaker 1: at the state level, and it's back and funded by
Speaker 1: some of the usual suspects that we've been talking about
Speaker 1: over the last you know, however many decades um that
Speaker 1: that fund and get behind these types of work. And
Speaker 1: what was really interesting someone semi an article recently they
Speaker 1: talked about like some of the major anti abortion folks
Speaker 1: are also getting in the fight behind HR one. Like
Speaker 1: so we also see I had an article a couple
Speaker 1: of weeks back in Truth Out just talking about how like,
Speaker 1: when we're talking about voting rights and we're talking about
Speaker 1: what's happening in these fights, it literally isn't we're talking
Speaker 1: about saving democracy. It's not just about voting rights, right, like,
Speaker 1: it's about all these other opportunities and entry points. And
Speaker 1: we're seeing some of the worst legislation that is really
Speaker 1: denying people's humanity and rights to exist. When we see
Speaker 1: like the trans um sports bills being passed in various places,
Speaker 1: when we see these various attacks on you know, reproductive
Speaker 1: rights and freedom, and so we really have this much
Speaker 1: broader attack happening on democracy, and there are these various
Speaker 1: levels of lives. I mean, just thinking about the way
Speaker 1: the anti abortion stuff happens, Like so much of that
Speaker 1: is based on fear mongering around mistruths and disinformation as well, right,
Speaker 1: so like it permeates across so much in conversations about
Speaker 1: this information, it's tempting to focus on foreign bad actors
Speaker 1: like Russia, but sometimes that can lead us to overlook
Speaker 1: the massive coordination of domestic bad actors or right here
Speaker 1: in our own country, and the powerful networks of online
Speaker 1: distortions they have at their disposal. We spent so much
Speaker 1: time in seventeen post election focusing on Russian interference, right,
Speaker 1: and Russian amplification of disinformation, but never looking at the
Speaker 1: disinformation itself, the domestic different information. And I think now
Speaker 1: and I really appreciate, like what you've been doing, Like
Speaker 1: so many people have been like sounding the alarm on
Speaker 1: the danger of what is happening domestically. I think now
Speaker 1: maybe folks are starting to understand, but it's still being
Speaker 1: limited to Trump's big lie, which Trump's big lie is
Speaker 1: really having a grip on our national politics right now.
Speaker 1: But part of the reason why it's able to do
Speaker 1: so is because these networks have been able to thrive
Speaker 1: and have existed for so long, and they're so deep
Speaker 1: and intense and so like it's a it takes it's
Speaker 1: a lot to like peel back those layers. I don't
Speaker 1: think people understand about like how people get targeted with disinformation,
Speaker 1: particularly when they come after black Latino and other folks
Speaker 1: of color um through the various mediums like I know,
Speaker 1: you know Latino folks have talked to me about like
Speaker 1: the use of WhatsApp. I think some Asian folks too
Speaker 1: have talked about the use of what's that groups, which
Speaker 1: are very common with both communities in terms of how
Speaker 1: they share disseminate information. So what you end up happening
Speaker 1: is you might have somebody's auntie or whoever who sees
Speaker 1: like this post or sees this thing. It's like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, did you see this? And then it it
Speaker 1: spreads like wildfire. But like that information is not actually accurate, right,
Speaker 1: So we there are these other ways that it's very
Speaker 1: insidious and infiltrating trusted spaces um that somehow we have
Speaker 1: to figure out how do we help people become you know,
Speaker 1: better shares of information and really like see through because
Speaker 1: there are some things that might kind of make sense
Speaker 1: that that's like what's really tricky to right. People will
Speaker 1: say things that might make sense, like let's take for
Speaker 1: stuff with the voter I D stuff. Right, So in
Speaker 1: the Georgia law, you know, there's a new voter idea
Speaker 1: requirement for folks who are voting absolutee ballot. And it
Speaker 1: will be like, well, what's wrong you need by I
Speaker 1: D for everything else? You need I D when you
Speaker 1: do this, Yes, you need I D. You need to
Speaker 1: prove who you are when you registered. But once you've registered, like,
Speaker 1: why do I have to keep showing you the picture itself? Right?
Speaker 1: Like you need I D. You need I D when
Speaker 1: you go here, you need I D. Like so people
Speaker 1: will do this thing. They're like, well that makes sense,
Speaker 1: but the rhetoric, the rationalization has to do with fraud
Speaker 1: when the fraud has never been proven to be an
Speaker 1: actual issue, right, Like so they I remember I remember
Speaker 1: doing some research during the election, and like an Alabama
Speaker 1: when Alabam was adapting its voter ID law, the nub
Speaker 1: A CP Legal Defense Fund looked back twelve years prior
Speaker 1: to the year when they're trying to add act the law,
Speaker 1: trying to see how many fraud cases there were. There
Speaker 1: was only like one or two in a twelve of
Speaker 1: your period, right, And so like they will use the
Speaker 1: presence of like one or two and they'll be like,
Speaker 1: we'll see there's an issue because this is one or
Speaker 1: two happened. Or someone made a comment about people changing
Speaker 1: you know, ballots, but it was a Republican postal man
Speaker 1: in West Virginia that was changing people's request ballots. And
Speaker 1: but it was caught. Right. That's the other thing, right,
Speaker 1: the very rare instances where things happen, the people doing
Speaker 1: it are caught like almost right away, right, because of
Speaker 1: the mechanisms already built into the system. So media frustrates
Speaker 1: me too because how they report these things as if
Speaker 1: they're valid considerations on all sides, when really the only
Speaker 1: side we need to be thinking about is like democracy, right,
Speaker 1: And what does it mean to uphold and protect democracy?
Speaker 1: And how could you ever justify in rationals to say
Speaker 1: you're protecting democracy by keeping people out? Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: you can't. You know, in a democracy, you want to
Speaker 1: expand voting access, you want to make it easier and
Speaker 1: get rid of arrears that people have to vote, not
Speaker 1: not an act more. And it was really disingenuous to
Speaker 1: see a statement today, I think from Kemp, who was like,
Speaker 1: you know, oh, we're widening the like the ability for
Speaker 1: people to vote, We're expanding it. And it's just a lie.
Speaker 1: I mean you you there is just not a way
Speaker 1: that you could look at that and see the see
Speaker 1: the kinds of barriers that this legislation puts in place
Speaker 1: and try with a straight face to say that you're
Speaker 1: actually trying to make it easier for people to vote.
Speaker 1: If that's the case, why are you threatening souls to
Speaker 1: the polls? Why have you made it so to make
Speaker 1: it harder for people to give water to folks standing
Speaker 1: in long lines? Right? Like, if that's it's part of it?
Speaker 1: To me is shocking how they can sees on something
Speaker 1: that might have a nugget of truth to try to
Speaker 1: paint a wider, a wider you know, portrait of what's happening.
Speaker 1: To your point earlier about the networks and how coordinated
Speaker 1: this is. Before you and I got on this call,
Speaker 1: I was just doing a little search about like what's
Speaker 1: the what you know, what am I seeing in like
Speaker 1: republican or right wing spaces, Like what's the converse online
Speaker 1: and what you said about like, oh, you need a
Speaker 1: vote an I D to go by liquor you need
Speaker 1: an ID to do X y z. Why is it
Speaker 1: bad to have to need an idea vote? It was
Speaker 1: interesting to me that in some uh large Facebook groups
Speaker 1: that are not even necessarily like explicitly political, I saw
Speaker 1: a bunch of memes this morning kind of making that point,
Speaker 1: and they make the point in a way that seems
Speaker 1: to make sense. You're like, Okay, you know, I get
Speaker 1: the point that's being made, and it seems it seems
Speaker 1: non controversial, but when you think about it, you're like,
Speaker 1: oh wait, in context, that's actually really messed up. And
Speaker 1: then you know, it's just interesting to me how how
Speaker 1: there are these networks online that are ready to echo
Speaker 1: and amplify the distortions of folks on the right about
Speaker 1: voting and disseminate them into groups of people who might
Speaker 1: not even be necessarily primed to be looking at like
Speaker 1: politically charged content. But this is exactly how we saw
Speaker 1: the stop this field stuff spread right in the j
Speaker 1: racist insurrection, Like we these people have been primed and Rade,
Speaker 1: this is why you have so many quote unquote normal,
Speaker 1: mild mannered folks. They've been all wrapped up in the
Speaker 1: Q and on and whatever, because again, this stuff is overlooked,
Speaker 1: It's not seen as important to engage with. I just
Speaker 1: remember seven years ago, just nonsense that would happen on
Speaker 1: Twitter and then people be like, why do you even
Speaker 1: waste time debunking that? Like what's the point? Like I've
Speaker 1: learned there are probably more effective ways to do things
Speaker 1: than having one on one arguments with dumb folks on Twitter.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, like when you have people
Speaker 1: with large platforms who are engaging in some of this
Speaker 1: you know, both sides or these red herrings and stuff,
Speaker 1: it is dangerous because they are then informing and engaging
Speaker 1: so many other people. But like with these various groups,
Speaker 1: I mean, I've seen people talking about like the yoga groups,
Speaker 1: like some of them be the more like just basic
Speaker 1: spiritual type places that unfortunately end up being places where
Speaker 1: there was a lot of widespread COVID nineteen misinformation being
Speaker 1: spread as well, and not necessarily because the people sharing
Speaker 1: it themselves are malicious of trying to fool people, Like
Speaker 1: some of it made sense to people, but like whoever
Speaker 1: is putting it out there and creating it knowing that
Speaker 1: people are going to pick it up, like, um, I
Speaker 1: think it was earlier this year. Uh, there's actually someone
Speaker 1: being charged by the FBI, which I don't really know
Speaker 1: how I feel about this, but at the same time,
Speaker 1: it is a very interesting conversation to have. There's someone
Speaker 1: being charged by the FBI, And part of it was
Speaker 1: because they were disseminating misleading information targeting predominantly UM, black
Speaker 1: and I think voters of color. But they were sending
Speaker 1: out what made it seem like you could vote by
Speaker 1: using a text code if you couldn't get to the
Speaker 1: polls and think about it, right, like, people were doing
Speaker 1: innovative things help people vote in the middle of a pandemic. So,
Speaker 1: if you're someone who's not very politically savvy, who doesn't
Speaker 1: know that you can't vote by texts or by tweeting
Speaker 1: at someone, I mean, like to me and you, that
Speaker 1: might seem like the of course you can't do that.
Speaker 1: But to somebody who doesn't know any better, who actually
Speaker 1: thinks that that could be a real legitimate option and
Speaker 1: their way of also engaging the process in the middle
Speaker 1: of a pandemic, that's kind of sucked up. And so
Speaker 1: like this person, I guess got investigated and the other
Speaker 1: folks in this group chat they were and also got investigated,
Speaker 1: but they literally hadn't had a chat. They were surveilling
Speaker 1: these multiple different groups in different spaces and coordinating releasing
Speaker 1: these memes and stuff, right, and so like, I mean,
Speaker 1: that type of stuff has been happening. And so to
Speaker 1: my point about the Russia stuff, like what was happening
Speaker 1: with the Russia stuff in its place in the conversation,
Speaker 1: it really overshadowed the mass volume of what was happening domestically.
Speaker 1: And so people had years now unchecked to perfect that
Speaker 1: domestic system, and we're really seeing it rear its head
Speaker 1: in coordination with just the regular conservative you know, legislative
Speaker 1: or ichoranizing that already happens, like you know, you used
Speaker 1: to see people used to talk about like you would
Speaker 1: see the ALEC bills that basically was the same boiled
Speaker 1: point lane and multiple states across the country. There are
Speaker 1: a little bit more savvy now because we're seeing similar
Speaker 1: things happening um across the country and it's clearly not
Speaker 1: a coincidence. Can you tell us some of us in
Speaker 1: this law, some of the must and sidious parts of
Speaker 1: the law here in Georgia, UM, it removes the Secretary
Speaker 1: State as the head of the State Board of Elections.
Speaker 1: State Board of Elections is a five person body. The
Speaker 1: General Assembly appoints two of those people. The General Assembly
Speaker 1: will now point a majority three of the five UM
Speaker 1: with the removal of the Secretary State as the chair.
Speaker 1: So a republic our Republican could control legislature will now
Speaker 1: in effect control the state Election Board, which the State
Speaker 1: of Election Board sets down election you know, per view
Speaker 1: regulations for the entire state, which is how we select
Speaker 1: our members of our General Assembly. And you know, there's
Speaker 1: a brilliant lawyer here that I that I follow and
Speaker 1: really looks too forguid and Sarah uh Tendo Ghazal, and
Speaker 1: she was just pointing out in one of the hearings,
Speaker 1: like how ridiculous it is. UM. One of you know,
Speaker 1: the proponent build proponents, Barry Fleming, was like, well, I mean,
Speaker 1: the governor appoints the entire board in the regions. The
Speaker 1: governor appoints the transportation board. And she's just like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I guess I gotta explain this to you, but that's fine.
Speaker 1: The governor point appoints those bodies. But you all appointing
Speaker 1: the people who set the rules for how you all
Speaker 1: hold office. Isn't really like you're appointing your own referees
Speaker 1: and then we're expecting them to hold you accountable. Like
Speaker 1: it's it's just a wild proposition. Here's how one voter
Speaker 1: described her voting experience in Georgia. And I don't feel
Speaker 1: like this is happening at all polls. I'm in a
Speaker 1: three H three three one zip code and I feel
Speaker 1: like most of the problems that occurred and this is
Speaker 1: what we were told that certain polling UM locations have problems,
Speaker 1: and I do believe it's I think it's targeted. Another
Speaker 1: thing they did that directly targets Fulton County in particular
Speaker 1: is forbidding the use of mobile vans for voting mobile voting.
Speaker 1: This is all something that was done in Harris County UM,
Speaker 1: in Texas UM, and so like that helps because you know,
Speaker 1: Fulton County, Gwennette County, the metro Alanta County is in particular,
Speaker 1: are often burdened with the very long lines and so
Speaker 1: mobile voting with something that was implemented to help alleviate
Speaker 1: some of that. So it's basically setting up a mobile
Speaker 1: polling site, So that was that helped alleviate some of that. So,
Speaker 1: like when they're talking about, oh, we're making it easier,
Speaker 1: how are you making easier when you're restricting the time
Speaker 1: period within which people have to request an absentee ballot
Speaker 1: and return it. Because if you really want to make
Speaker 1: it easier, you could have adopted the policy that several
Speaker 1: states have where you return the absentee ballot as long
Speaker 1: as it's postmarked on election day or the day before
Speaker 1: election day. As long as it's received in a particular
Speaker 1: time period, it would still count. They could have went
Speaker 1: that row. So there are things that they could have done,
Speaker 1: but they chose more restrictive means. Now, a lot of
Speaker 1: the headlines about this bill have pointed out that it
Speaker 1: puts new restrictions on how volunteers can do things like
Speaker 1: give water or snacks or chair to people waiting in
Speaker 1: long lines to vote. But it's even more worrisome than
Speaker 1: it sounds, so for folks who might not be familiar,
Speaker 1: Like line warming is what it. You're keeping the line warm,
Speaker 1: you keep people comfortable who are standing in line. I
Speaker 1: remember in UM the New Georgia Project, in some of
Speaker 1: their electric protection folks. They literally sent a mariachi band
Speaker 1: to one line to keep people entertained because they were
Speaker 1: waiting in line so long. Um. And so because we
Speaker 1: have these long lines, because it depending upon the weather,
Speaker 1: if it's in like you know, spring, because we have
Speaker 1: very warren spring time here in Georgia, or if it's
Speaker 1: very cold for whatever reason or raining. You know, people
Speaker 1: have handed out ponchos, people have handed out handwarmers, food
Speaker 1: like snacks. I mean, you have pizzas. To the polls,
Speaker 1: you have the chef for the polls with chef Jose
Speaker 1: Andreas started the chef to the polls um this past
Speaker 1: cycle two. So you have these other things that people
Speaker 1: are doing, and they have tried to compare it to
Speaker 1: partisan electioneering in in the past. And you even had
Speaker 1: Brad Roethlisberger telling media that it was in fact illegal
Speaker 1: and a felony. So before the state actually made it illegal,
Speaker 1: you had the Secretary of State tell people that it
Speaker 1: was illegal, and you had people being harassed accordingly because
Speaker 1: of his misinterpretation and the statements of law. So now
Speaker 1: that it is illegal to be within a hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty defeat, that's the same why that that hundred defeat peak.
Speaker 1: Why I keep HARKing or not is because that is
Speaker 1: the same distance that if you're representing a party or
Speaker 1: a candidate, you have to be away. So they have
Speaker 1: compared nonpartisan activity to partisan activity, and that's a very
Speaker 1: real attack on black and brown and other organizers of
Speaker 1: color who have been trying to help alleviate what we see.
Speaker 1: You know, we don't want people to be discouraged. So
Speaker 1: I will also note that because there's not anything clear
Speaker 1: cut and law and like voting rights law period, the
Speaker 1: way people have tried to kind of just protect themselves
Speaker 1: and make sure they don't end up being accused of
Speaker 1: violating any type of federal laws because it has been
Speaker 1: a law I think since the forties that you cannot
Speaker 1: give anyone of something of value for their vote. And
Speaker 1: so unfortunately, because of the discretion involved and are interpreting,
Speaker 1: you know, a secretary state like Brad robinsbor could interpret
Speaker 1: that as you know, give you something someone of value
Speaker 1: because they're in line to vote, which it's like whatever,
Speaker 1: it's a stretch, but whatever. So how a lot of
Speaker 1: folks have dealt with that is like anyone in the vicinity,
Speaker 1: whether it's the poll workers, if you're at someplace that
Speaker 1: has security. If there are other people passing through the
Speaker 1: general community, anyone can get anything we're giving out, no
Speaker 1: matter what, right, Like it's a service. And you know
Speaker 1: when I when I gotta, I got some quotes when
Speaker 1: I was writing an article, like from the piece of
Speaker 1: the poll folks, one of the things they said was,
Speaker 1: we see this as a way of incentivizing civic engagement
Speaker 1: in the general community, So we'll provide it to anyone,
Speaker 1: right And I know that several lawyers have advised people
Speaker 1: that that was the best way to handle it as well.
Speaker 1: But now it doesn't matter who you're giving it to, regardless,
Speaker 1: just the very act of being close to the poll
Speaker 1: location they have now decided to criminalize. And that is
Speaker 1: a very clear attack, on a very real way at
Speaker 1: something that is very commonly known to be, you know,
Speaker 1: seen as an added value and benefit to communities. And
Speaker 1: so we're seeing this a very real attack not just
Speaker 1: simply on democracy, but on our participation as you know,
Speaker 1: people of color who are exercising leveraging that power. And
Speaker 1: you know a lot of folks are comparing this to
Speaker 1: Jim Crow. And I'd really be interested in talking to
Speaker 1: some historians just to learn more about that post um
Speaker 1: that early the pre you know, fifties sixties civil rights areas,
Speaker 1: so like you know, the late eighteen hundreds to like
Speaker 1: the fifties, because it seems like in some ways we're
Speaker 1: really in that period, like post reconstruction, where we saw
Speaker 1: very blatant, active attempts to strip black political power from communities.
Speaker 1: This attempt to strip black communities of power VIAC curbing
Speaker 1: access to voting is nothing new after the Civil War.
Speaker 1: During Reconstruction, black folks were attacked by racist poll taxes
Speaker 1: and literacy tests and other barriers to make it harder
Speaker 1: for us to vote. According to the Brennan Center, even
Speaker 1: though these laws are over a century old, as recent
Speaker 1: forty six states allowed for voter challenges, laws that allowed
Speaker 1: any private citizen to challenge the eligibility of prospective voters
Speaker 1: on or before election day. Now, these kinds of barriers
Speaker 1: to voting have never gone down without a fight. Organizations
Speaker 1: like Black Voters Matter, led by Cliff Albright, have already
Speaker 1: challenged Georgia's new law on the grounds that will unfairly
Speaker 1: hurt black and brown voters. So it's gonna be interesting
Speaker 1: about like how some of this stuff even stands up
Speaker 1: in court. New Georgia Project Black Voters Matter Fund and
Speaker 1: Rise all filed. They fill the joint suit the same
Speaker 1: night that can't sign the bill. So it's gonna be
Speaker 1: interesting to see how that moves forward and unfolds. Um.
Speaker 1: But but the voter challenges so so basically, and this
Speaker 1: is like something that used to happen in the old
Speaker 1: days too, like you could just go in or really
Speaker 1: white people could just go in and be like, no,
Speaker 1: that person can't vote for whatever reason or whatever, and
Speaker 1: you would literally have to have like a white person
Speaker 1: like someone come vouch for you. And so it's something
Speaker 1: very similar, like they can come in and just challenge
Speaker 1: anyone for any reason, and that is very um intimidating,
Speaker 1: is very stressful. That is something that actually is very insidious.
Speaker 1: It also kind of feels like an attack on some
Speaker 1: aspects of the Black way of life. I know, I
Speaker 1: have older women in my life who I call Auntie
Speaker 1: and drop off mail and groceries and prescriptions for who
Speaker 1: are not actually my blood relatives, and I wouldn't be
Speaker 1: able to touch their ballots. You can't have other people
Speaker 1: collecting your ballots for you, and again, that might even
Speaker 1: sound logical to people, but you have some folks. What
Speaker 1: about people who can't get around and get out right,
Speaker 1: Like we all know folks. So like, if I know
Speaker 1: people in my general like life, unless I'm directly related
Speaker 1: in a household with them, I can't touch their ballot
Speaker 1: for them, right, But if they don't have anyone and
Speaker 1: a lot of us live in families and community like that,
Speaker 1: right where we have missed so and so, who know,
Speaker 1: I'm technically not related to her, but she's still my
Speaker 1: auntie or she's still my grandma her, And it's not
Speaker 1: anything nefarious for no one. The root of this is
Speaker 1: so obvious. It's racist. The root of it all is
Speaker 1: they are afraid that they won't win elections unless they
Speaker 1: do this. It's not like Hi, I should adopt better policies,
Speaker 1: or maybe I need to not be so extremists in
Speaker 1: our positions. It's like, no, we just need to do
Speaker 1: whatever we can to retain and maintain power and make
Speaker 1: sure them darkies don't because that's what it is. It's
Speaker 1: really what it is. Like you know, we talk about it,
Speaker 1: but it's like you and I both know what's up right,
Speaker 1: It's so clear, no, like no one wants to come
Speaker 1: out and say it. They don't say it. They dance
Speaker 1: around it. But it's clear that's what's happening. Anybody, anybody
Speaker 1: can see it. More. After a quick break, let's get
Speaker 1: right back into it. Camp flanked by a bunch of
Speaker 1: white male Georgia state legislators signed the law under a
Speaker 1: painting of a slave plantation. When folks are pointing to
Speaker 1: Camp signing that bill under a picture of not just
Speaker 1: any plantation, right, like what someone several folks have just
Speaker 1: pierced out the history of the plantation that's depicted a
Speaker 1: very brutal, atrocious you know, uh, that held like I
Speaker 1: think upwards of a hundred slaves like that with and
Speaker 1: then I mean also you have him flanked by six
Speaker 1: white men um which I believe just quite take a
Speaker 1: quick glance, and that's like six people who are above
Speaker 1: house incident leadership. I mean, the fact that you know,
Speaker 1: the leadership of our government is all white men in
Speaker 1: a rapidly diversifying state like Georgia is quite telling. I
Speaker 1: mean that's the other thing, right, Like, there's this real
Speaker 1: fear that they are losing power, and that's at the
Speaker 1: heart of it. But you know what happens when white
Speaker 1: fear controls um policy, Right, We've seen it. We've seen
Speaker 1: you know, folks can act like, oh that KKK, or
Speaker 1: white supremacy is just some white as that's some extreme
Speaker 1: outside thing. But unfortunately, a lot of those same tenants,
Speaker 1: a lot of those same attitudes influence when we're looking
Speaker 1: at the way in which people are charged with various crimes,
Speaker 1: where we're looking at the decisions that are being made,
Speaker 1: we're looking at the way in which our children are
Speaker 1: treated in public schools. We see the very deep rooted
Speaker 1: nature of white supremacy across so many fascests of society.
Speaker 1: So we can't just you know, it's it's not enough
Speaker 1: to just say this is Trump's big lie. Like it's
Speaker 1: so much more than that happening. And I'm just really
Speaker 1: like excited for the work that you're doing in the
Speaker 1: conversations you've been having around dis information, because we really
Speaker 1: need to understand how these systems are operating and what
Speaker 1: role do we all have to play, and we really
Speaker 1: should take that role. Seriously, I really do believe that
Speaker 1: we all have a role to play and fight against
Speaker 1: if there's information and it doesn't matter if you are
Speaker 1: aligned ideologically, you're conservative. If you're someone who believes in
Speaker 1: more moderate or conservative value, you should want people telling
Speaker 1: the truth like you just you should want facts. You
Speaker 1: should not want to exist with people distorting information and
Speaker 1: blatantly lying. It's a wild time. We're in bridget like
Speaker 1: this is a wild time. It's a wild time. I
Speaker 1: guess that's one of my last questions for you. What
Speaker 1: what do you think is next for the state of
Speaker 1: voting in Georgia? What's next? Where do we go from here? Uh?
Speaker 1: We keep doing what we've been doing, Like like I
Speaker 1: keep reporting, but I've been reporting. I'm sure organizers like
Speaker 1: I just finished interviewing UM Cliff Albright and UM, some
Speaker 1: other folks Simone Bells, a former state rep. And UM,
Speaker 1: and we were just talking about like what's next. Right
Speaker 1: in conversations with folks are just like, so now what
Speaker 1: and so folks are you know, working through like what
Speaker 1: does it look like? Possibly as e No I'm boycott
Speaker 1: strategy or continuing the corporate accountability strategy as a pressure
Speaker 1: point to paraphrase Cliff, just thinking about like the Georgia
Speaker 1: law has been has been passed, It's now that's up
Speaker 1: now that for that specifically, that's up to the lawsuit. Right,
Speaker 1: the legal strategy, there's always still the organizing strategy and
Speaker 1: working within the confines of the new limitations that exist.
Speaker 1: We see folks continuing to you know, strategize organized and
Speaker 1: just get more people in the process. But that corporate
Speaker 1: accountability strategy. You know, folks are all hyped up about
Speaker 1: boycotting Georgia, and I personally tend to object to boycotts
Speaker 1: unless they are called directly by people themselves. As soon
Speaker 1: as the legislation was signed into law, people on social
Speaker 1: media began calling for boycotts of Georgia based corporations like
Speaker 1: Delta Airlines and Coca Cola until they came out against
Speaker 1: the law. Now, boycotts like these have been effective in
Speaker 1: the past. In the eighties, organizers called for a boycott
Speaker 1: of Coca Cola and other US companies if they didn't
Speaker 1: divest from South Africa to help end apartheid. But the
Speaker 1: princes those boycotts were led by local folks on the ground,
Speaker 1: not outsiders on Twitter, and Noah thinks any calls for
Speaker 1: boycott should be led by organizers in Georgia, not people
Speaker 1: who don't live there. But also like with a boycott,
Speaker 1: and you know I had folks folks like, well, you
Speaker 1: know they did it in the eighties with CoA Cola.
Speaker 1: That's part of a very strategic effort around divestment from
Speaker 1: South Africa, right, Um, And I do remember as a
Speaker 1: kid we did not drink Coca Cola or wear rebox
Speaker 1: because of divestment. That's like the only thing like I
Speaker 1: really remember, you know, being a young child in the eighties. Um.
Speaker 1: That and then by their early nineties a Different World
Speaker 1: episode where one of the characters had to give up
Speaker 1: or chose to give up a scholarship because the company
Speaker 1: had not divested from South Africa. Economic accountability, economic corporate
Speaker 1: you know, boycotts, that stuff can work, but it's strategic.
Speaker 1: It has to be led by impacted people who are
Speaker 1: very clear on what the goals are. I think Senator
Speaker 1: Warnock actually said this really well in an interview recently. Um,
Speaker 1: you know they're busy asking Democrats about why the you know,
Speaker 1: the Filibus and the Philippus or it's like, why aren't
Speaker 1: you asking Republicans about why they're not protective voting rights?
Speaker 1: Like why they don't care? I think that's what But
Speaker 1: where we all go. I think we need to have
Speaker 1: a very clear commitment and understanding that democracy is not
Speaker 1: just some stagnant thing that just exists. It is really
Speaker 1: an active process that requires us to play a very clear,
Speaker 1: consistent role. So whether that's just being involved and you know,
Speaker 1: even if it's being involved and your kids, like if
Speaker 1: there's like a local school council or something for your
Speaker 1: district or your school, or if it's you know, when
Speaker 1: you can and have the time. Because I also, I mean,
Speaker 1: I've been a single mom my entire adult life. I
Speaker 1: had my daughter when I was twenty um when almost
Speaker 1: my entire adult life. Not gonna this count the years
Speaker 1: their dad was around. But like I you know, so
Speaker 1: I get being busy, right, Like I get having multiple
Speaker 1: competing things. You know, I've taken care of other people
Speaker 1: in addition to my kids, So I understand having other
Speaker 1: things pressing on us. But we can still find a
Speaker 1: way to write off that letter to um. You know.
Speaker 1: Now they now with the technology is so easy, you
Speaker 1: can automatically send out the text to do stuff, the
Speaker 1: auto populate the emails. I mean, we we can, we can,
Speaker 1: we can follow and support the work of black and
Speaker 1: other organizers of color, not just here in Georgia, because yes,
Speaker 1: they're amazing people Georgia, but you know what, there are
Speaker 1: awesome folks throwing down all over the South and really
Speaker 1: all over the country. I think between Georgia and the Midwest,
Speaker 1: not to exclude anyone else the South and the Midwest,
Speaker 1: I've met some of the most prolific organizers really grinding
Speaker 1: and working at multiple intersections of crisis right now because
Speaker 1: we still do. We're still in the middle of a pandemic,
Speaker 1: and we have the democracy issues and then just the
Speaker 1: regular issue based you know, work that people are doing.
Speaker 1: So I think about folks like Mississippi Votes who the
Speaker 1: People's UM Advocacy Institute led by Rakia Lamumba and Mississippi
Speaker 1: Votes Recommitted UM. I think about work over in Louisiana UM.
Speaker 1: I mean, and up in Wisconsin you have uh uh
Speaker 1: LIT Leaders igniting transformation and block Black Leaders organizing communities,
Speaker 1: and those are both organizations that have worked UM around
Speaker 1: multiple issues as well as elections specific engagement, while at
Speaker 1: the same time holding space for community in the metal pandemic.
Speaker 1: And so these types of groups exist all over. Some
Speaker 1: of them may be smaller and may not be as
Speaker 1: well funded, and that's definitely where like your support, I mean,
Speaker 1: like we act like you know, donations don't matter, but
Speaker 1: like financial freedom, writers are a thing in my opinion,
Speaker 1: um is definitely necessary. Not all of us can get
Speaker 1: there and be there physically in person. Not everybody has
Speaker 1: to be on the front line. That's one of things
Speaker 1: I appreciate about the pandemic too. I think that folks
Speaker 1: have learned there are different ways that you can contribute,
Speaker 1: and being like literally on the front line is not
Speaker 1: the only thing of value you can do. Can you
Speaker 1: feed some folks every once in a while, That's that's
Speaker 1: also really valuable. So I'm I just think as we're
Speaker 1: wrapping up, like you know, and just thinking about where
Speaker 1: to go next, also sharing good information, sharing podcasts and
Speaker 1: you know, like you're shared articles like the ones I write,
Speaker 1: like that goes a long way because we don't necessarily
Speaker 1: have the same distribution networks that the other side does,
Speaker 1: and so we need to get our information out there.
Speaker 1: I'll just share a real quick personal story, like I've
Speaker 1: had these conversations with my mother about COVID, sharing bad
Speaker 1: information about COVID, whether the vaccine or whatever, and she
Speaker 1: and it's the same thing. They target black folks. It
Speaker 1: sounds kind of right, right, Like, it makes kind of sense.
Speaker 1: They get you hooked in. But I had to walk
Speaker 1: through with my mom. I had to point her two
Speaker 1: black doctors she should be following and one thing she said, Well,
Speaker 1: she goes, well, if they're saying such good information, why
Speaker 1: isn't there information me shared everywhere? I said, unfortunately, because
Speaker 1: of the way these algorithms work, the way the sharing
Speaker 1: systems work. She was like, oh, well, so taking the
Speaker 1: time to just talk to our folks, right, Like, that's
Speaker 1: that's super critical. The bill attacking abortion access in Texas
Speaker 1: is just one more plank of a coordinated attack on
Speaker 1: our democracy and the rights of marginalized people, and it's
Speaker 1: time for all of us to fight back. Go to
Speaker 1: tangodi dot com slash donate to support abortion funds in Texas.
Speaker 1: Got a story about an interesting thing in tech, or
Speaker 1: just want to say hi? You can have me us
Speaker 1: at Hello at tangodi dot com. You can also find
Speaker 1: transcripts today's episode at tangdi dot com. There Are No
Speaker 1: Girls on the Internet was created by me Bridget Todd.
Speaker 1: It's a production of iHeart Radio. And Unboss creative Jonathan
Speaker 1: Strickland as our executive producer. Terry Harrison is our producer
Speaker 1: and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our contributing producer. I'm
Speaker 1: your host, bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow,
Speaker 1: rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts
Speaker 1: from I Heeart Radio, check out the iHeart Radio app,
Speaker 1: Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts