Speaker 1: Hey, welcome in. This is the all New All Ball.
Speaker 1: I'm Doug Gottley, but you can listen to the Doug
Speaker 1: Gottli Jailing weekday. So welcome three to six kids of time,
Speaker 1: Postport Radio, the I Heart Radio after UM. The last
Speaker 1: couple of weeks, we've had long form interviews j billis
Speaker 1: ESPNS League College Basketball analysts. You should download that one
Speaker 1: if you've missed it. And uh also with Scott Brooks,
Speaker 1: who's the head coach of the Washington Wizards. We got
Speaker 1: some more of those interviews returning in the coming weeks.
Speaker 1: Just kind of tease a head for it. But this
Speaker 1: week we're gonna kind of get into some hoop because
Speaker 1: you have college practice starting, you have NBA training camp
Speaker 1: starting as well. This is a shout out to the
Speaker 1: guys are training camp fodder. Never got a chance to
Speaker 1: be training camp fodder. All I wanted to be was
Speaker 1: training camp fodder, and I could not make a training
Speaker 1: camp roster. And there's some hard decision times with some
Speaker 1: of these guys who could go to training camp and
Speaker 1: go through the G League, or you can go and
Speaker 1: make more money overseas. Rooting for all you guys that
Speaker 1: have the two way contracts to get or even the
Speaker 1: ones that don't have the two way contracts to get
Speaker 1: called up into the from the G League to the league.
Speaker 1: This year, UM, I am fascinated by the NBA. I
Speaker 1: think the NBA has found new life. It's really good
Speaker 1: ball in comparison to the NFL in terms of popularity.
Speaker 1: It's growing, not shrinking, and there is no risk of
Speaker 1: long term brain damage. But also they figured out long
Speaker 1: ago with the NFL is trying to figure out which
Speaker 1: is offense wins. Defense still wins championships. Gotta shut people down,
Speaker 1: but offense gets attention. I would only warn you that
Speaker 1: if you're comparing this generation of previous generations, it's not
Speaker 1: just the use of three point shots, more possessions, it's
Speaker 1: offense friendly rules. Um, all of these things have sped
Speaker 1: up the game. It's given more possessions, more possessions, more
Speaker 1: three point shots is more points. Less protection at the rim,
Speaker 1: less bodies in the lane means higher efficiency finishing in
Speaker 1: the lane. Less postops, post up shots mean more efficient basketball.
Speaker 1: There's still room for post up, still room for the
Speaker 1: mid range pull up, but we are getting smarter, and
Speaker 1: smarter means more points and more possessions and a better watch,
Speaker 1: and the NFL is trying to play catch up with
Speaker 1: the NBA figured out a long time ago. Lebron is
Speaker 1: in l A. That one's just and it's one of
Speaker 1: those things where you might have thought it was a possibility.
Speaker 1: And last year this time, everybody's saying, Hey, the Bron
Speaker 1: is gonna be a Laker next year. But I had
Speaker 1: heard that before I heard Kevin Love was gonna be
Speaker 1: a Laker, right that that didn't happen, and Paul George
Speaker 1: was gonna be a Laker. Ever, lots of people are
Speaker 1: gonna be Lakers that didn't end up being Lakers. Lebron
Speaker 1: is really a Laker, and that really does change so
Speaker 1: much of the Eastern Conference but also the Western Conference.
Speaker 1: But I'm interested in Rondo being named starting point guard
Speaker 1: before they ever had a pre season practice. Some of
Speaker 1: that is Zo coming back, but isn't that a kind
Speaker 1: of tweak at Zoe? And hey, dude, you're gonna have
Speaker 1: to earn it. You have to take it from Rondo
Speaker 1: because we just can't hand you the keys to this kingdom.
Speaker 1: And then I think the Boston Celtics are suddenly the
Speaker 1: most underrated team and Tera Rosier was their fourth guard,
Speaker 1: and Jason Tatum probably wouldn't have started if not for
Speaker 1: Gordon Hayward's injury. Gordon Hayward been back, and if he
Speaker 1: returns to form before he got hurt, he was an
Speaker 1: All Star in the West and he's gotten better every year.
Speaker 1: I would expect him to have a huge year, and
Speaker 1: I think the Celtics are viable challengers to the Golden
Speaker 1: State Ward. Alright, We're a year removed from the FBI
Speaker 1: arresting a bunch of coaches and the entire college basketball
Speaker 1: world freaking out. And there's no better guy to come
Speaker 1: and have a conversation with about this than Sam Passini,
Speaker 1: who also has been arrested by the FBI in the past.
Speaker 1: But that that stuff, when I'm kidding, you got brush
Speaker 1: down of the ruggy rights for the athletic he joins us.
Speaker 1: Now he has his own podcast. It's a really good one. Um. Okay,
Speaker 1: A year later, where are we with this stuff? Rick
Speaker 1: Pettino lost his job, a couple of assistants lost their job. Um,
Speaker 1: but that and that's kind of all that happened, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's all I feel. I Mean, you could say the
Speaker 1: fallout is that Rick Petino is no longer at Louisville,
Speaker 1: so we had to deal with Ristino in the media
Speaker 1: for a year. And then Chris Mack is now at
Speaker 1: Louisville where he's absolutely killing and recruiting and he's going
Speaker 1: to turn that program around and everything is gonna be great.
Speaker 1: Travis Steele is now elevated his Davier. There's been some
Speaker 1: fallout there. There's been some fallout with recruiting, like who
Speaker 1: knows what happens with Romeo Lankord's recruiting if Rick Petino
Speaker 1: and Louisville are still at Louisville and still at the
Speaker 1: level that uh they were before this entire thing went down.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, nothing has really changed in
Speaker 1: the grand picture, Like in the big picture, that stuff
Speaker 1: it may not seem small, but it kind of is.
Speaker 1: There's no real momentum towards a reform in college basketball.
Speaker 1: We had this commission on college basketball that was set
Speaker 1: out with trying to change the game and really trying
Speaker 1: to make it so that this stuff quote unquote won't
Speaker 1: happen again. But at the end of the day, you
Speaker 1: look at what the changes are and they really aren't
Speaker 1: that significant other than to the recruitings calendar. So it's
Speaker 1: it's really just been much ado about nothing so far.
Speaker 1: Now I assume the FBI investigation isn't over, but you know,
Speaker 1: so far, it's fair to say that where you're out
Speaker 1: and not much has really changed. Yeah. It was super weird, right,
Speaker 1: super weird, especially when the FBI they had this like, hey,
Speaker 1: we we got your playbook, we got your playbook. We
Speaker 1: know a yeah, right, like, oh well they got some
Speaker 1: people here and you know, you know, basically come out
Speaker 1: with your hands up, admit that you did it. Nobody
Speaker 1: did that, and there hasn't been much of anything outside
Speaker 1: of some embarrassment from Adidas, you know, a couple of
Speaker 1: players losing their lgbilly, an entire kind of freshman class
Speaker 1: kind of gets caught up in it, and then and
Speaker 1: then we move on. Alright, So, um, the recruiting calendar changes.
Speaker 1: You and I have been to these events. You go
Speaker 1: to all of these events, you know a lot more.
Speaker 1: What what has what? What? Really has anything changed in
Speaker 1: the recruiting landscape? Not yet, but I think that it
Speaker 1: genuinely will change. Like you're talking about a schedule now
Speaker 1: that is markedly different, Like there is no longer a
Speaker 1: live period for coaches to go to Las Vegas at
Speaker 1: the end of July and go see a bunch of
Speaker 1: players in a singular circumstance. Under the a U umbrella.
Speaker 1: There now these camps that you know, USA Basketball is
Speaker 1: supposed to be involved with, and uh, the n c
Speaker 1: A is supposed to be running that College coaches are
Speaker 1: supposed to basically hand over their recruiting lists and say, hey,
Speaker 1: you should invite these kids to these events. So, I
Speaker 1: mean it's gonna change. It just hasn't changed yet. We'll
Speaker 1: see what the changes are. Like, the funniest thing about
Speaker 1: this is I think that the n c A and
Speaker 1: it's not really funny. It's actually kind of sad. They've
Speaker 1: made it harder for kids to get found in my opinion.
Speaker 1: And I'll give you a great example of this, Like
Speaker 1: I talked to Dylan Windler out at Belmont last week
Speaker 1: for a story I'm gonna run at the athletic at
Speaker 1: some point. And Dylan was a kid who played golf
Speaker 1: throughout his first I would say, like two years of
Speaker 1: high school and played basketball on the side, and then
Speaker 1: the summer before his senior year he goes and plays
Speaker 1: on Kyle Guy and UH India elite in the AUTH circuit.
Speaker 1: Belmont recruits and sees a six foot seven kid who
Speaker 1: can shoot, says, hey, we want to get this kid.
Speaker 1: Last year, Dylan Windler was the only kid in America
Speaker 1: to average seventeen points, nine rebounds, and shot from three
Speaker 1: while having three assisted games. He doesn't get found by Belmont,
Speaker 1: he doesn't get found by all of these other UH
Speaker 1: schools that offer him scholarships. If there's no grassroots system
Speaker 1: that he can just easily join because he's been found previously.
Speaker 1: So it's it's gonna hurt kids in the long run.
Speaker 1: And that's what's frustrating to me about it. And that's
Speaker 1: where I think the biggest change is gonna be a
Speaker 1: lot of these under the radar kids are gonna end
Speaker 1: up knock getting found and you're gonna see D two
Speaker 1: kids end up transferring up to D one. Yeah, I mean, like,
Speaker 1: I don't I'm gonna I agree with you. There are
Speaker 1: problems with AU basketball, and there are problems with the
Speaker 1: connections with the shoe companies on the other hand, and
Speaker 1: and I do like that some of the powers being
Speaker 1: put back in the hands of the high school coach.
Speaker 1: But even that there are shoe companies that control the
Speaker 1: high schools and the high school coaches. It's like we're
Speaker 1: completely missing missing the point. And I'm not sure if
Speaker 1: we didn't just kind of move things furniture from one
Speaker 1: side of the room to the other and uh yeah,
Speaker 1: if if if a player like him is his coins
Speaker 1: stuck under the couch, he's still stuck onto the couch,
Speaker 1: only it's harder to find because now we've rearranged the furniture,
Speaker 1: and the thought is that you've already gone through that
Speaker 1: couch and you have not. So um, Okay, we're heading
Speaker 1: into college basketball season, we're heading in the NBA season.
Speaker 1: I don't want to get too lost caught up in
Speaker 1: in the college basketball thing just yet. I do think
Speaker 1: one of the great adjustments that's been made to the
Speaker 1: college game is that teams are already practicing like that,
Speaker 1: to me is awesome. I've always felt like and look,
Speaker 1: I do think that college coaches can evolve, but some
Speaker 1: of it they're kind of working on the fly and
Speaker 1: plugging holes and you don't know who you have do
Speaker 1: you play live games. While we can be smartly critical
Speaker 1: of their changes in the recruiting calendar and how some
Speaker 1: of it doesn't make as much sense as they think
Speaker 1: it does. We could both agree that more time together
Speaker 1: earlier in the year is better for the overall product
Speaker 1: once we see it in early November. Correct, Yeah, no question.
Speaker 1: I'm excited that we're going to have more together college
Speaker 1: basketball teams. Then I think it's ultimately good for the
Speaker 1: kids that they get more time in front of coaches. Now,
Speaker 1: I think that we have to if their coaches don't
Speaker 1: abuse it. But at the same time, I think it's great.
Speaker 1: You know, Here's that this is a big misconception though.
Speaker 1: I think um that some people have is that the
Speaker 1: point of the coaches abusing how much time they have
Speaker 1: with their teams. You can lose a kid, you can
Speaker 1: lose a team if it's I bring up um Duke's
Speaker 1: team when they had Austin Rivers. I don't remember that year.
Speaker 1: They went to Beijing and they went to Dubai and
Speaker 1: I called those games for ESPN. I didn't get to
Speaker 1: go to Dubai in China. I did it from a studio,
Speaker 1: but I talked to the coaches and then I talked
Speaker 1: to I remember talking to a couple of the coaches
Speaker 1: in like February, and I said, why aren't you guys better?
Speaker 1: You know? They said, you know what, You're around each
Speaker 1: other too much, too much, like just too much. We
Speaker 1: we started the year before we ever got to school.
Speaker 1: There's just kind of a natural evolution of a team,
Speaker 1: and we kind of jump started the process by having
Speaker 1: those nine practices and then going overseas, and guys are
Speaker 1: already around each other from the moment they start school
Speaker 1: until the moment that the season is over. But we're
Speaker 1: just around each other too much. And I do think
Speaker 1: that one of the misconceptions is, hey, look, kids are
Speaker 1: gonna be in a gym anyway, it's better off when
Speaker 1: they're under the watchful eye of their college coaches. I
Speaker 1: actually like, I would actually like to be no hours limits, um,
Speaker 1: because I don't I do think it's really hard for
Speaker 1: a coach to abuse those numbers because the abuse the
Speaker 1: hours because you can one wear a kid out too
Speaker 1: They tune you out after a certain number of hours.
Speaker 1: They just don't have that attention span. And then you
Speaker 1: know you'll get in fighting within a team simply because
Speaker 1: guys are around each other too much. Yeah, no question,
Speaker 1: I think that's absolutely right. And then I would even
Speaker 1: throw in it. In addition to this that the advents
Speaker 1: over the last let's say like four years of the
Speaker 1: like personal trainer that goes around and you know, it
Speaker 1: kind of helps these kids out. Some kids have them,
Speaker 1: some kids don't. The higher end kids for the most
Speaker 1: part them nowadays because it's big business for the trainers
Speaker 1: get involved earlier on. Uh. It does help a little bit.
Speaker 1: I think is well in terms of these coaches not
Speaker 1: being able to be on the court with their players
Speaker 1: having someone there who hopefully uh and in most situations
Speaker 1: and most trainers that I've met are very smart and
Speaker 1: can help kids get better at basketball. Yeah. I also
Speaker 1: think the other thing that's changed in the last this
Speaker 1: is like ten years, is everybody has a facility now
Speaker 1: and and so kids can get in and they're getting
Speaker 1: shots up. Like you said, they have that personal trainers
Speaker 1: or you know, you have a group of managers that
Speaker 1: are feeding kids. And that's why I do think that
Speaker 1: having practice time and workout time with coaches on a
Speaker 1: daily basis, they're going to be in a gym, why
Speaker 1: not you know, it's like, would you rather kid lift
Speaker 1: on his own or lift with your strength coach? Would
Speaker 1: you rather kids shoot in his own or shoot with
Speaker 1: your coach, so he's taking game shots and working on stuff.
Speaker 1: You do want some other voices in their ears so
Speaker 1: they don't get tired of you. But but I do
Speaker 1: think that having those basketball facilities, which almost almost everybody
Speaker 1: at the high level and even mid major level has,
Speaker 1: I do think it's changed how much kids kind of
Speaker 1: live in the gym, and it's helped the skill of players.
Speaker 1: The question is does that skill fit in with their
Speaker 1: role in college. Sambasini is our guest here on the
Speaker 1: All Ball podcast. All Right, NBA teams have had their
Speaker 1: media day, and um, let's start with the Lakers, because
Speaker 1: that's the biggest change for a team. I would say
Speaker 1: them and the Calves obviously has the worst Lakers for
Speaker 1: the better. My My couple of quick takeaways are Lebron
Speaker 1: is smart, smartly speaking the truth, and that hey, they're
Speaker 1: building this thing kind of from the ground up. They
Speaker 1: are chasing the Warriors, but they are not even close
Speaker 1: to being competitors with the Warriors. And uh and and
Speaker 1: I think he seems sensible about his own expectations and
Speaker 1: maybe he's lowering our expectations. I found it a little
Speaker 1: bit curious that the Lakers already announced that Rondo is
Speaker 1: gonna be the starting point guard at the start of
Speaker 1: the season. What are your thoughts on the Lakers now
Speaker 1: that we're two or three days into training camp. I
Speaker 1: was surprised by the Rondo news, no question. It wouldn't
Speaker 1: surprise me if they end up starting both of those guys,
Speaker 1: Like I don't think there's been an announcement on like
Speaker 1: who's the starting two is gonna be. But I'm not
Speaker 1: surprised that Rondo is gonna start the year as a starter.
Speaker 1: I'm sure that there was some sort of statement made
Speaker 1: to him that he's going to come in and have
Speaker 1: a specific role. And you know, Rajon Rondo is coming
Speaker 1: off of the year that I think was drastically underrated.
Speaker 1: Like over the last couple of years, he's gotten a
Speaker 1: lot of crap about being a player who dominates the
Speaker 1: ball and pounds the ball in the ground and doesn't defend. Look,
Speaker 1: he's not a great defender anymore. I think that that's clear.
Speaker 1: But you look at his role on those New Orleans teams,
Speaker 1: and you look at on that team last year, and
Speaker 1: you look at how he performed in the playoffs. He
Speaker 1: was really good. He was really useful for them, I thought.
Speaker 1: And then the other big takeaway I agree with you
Speaker 1: is that Lebron is starting to kind of lower expectations
Speaker 1: for this team whatever he signed there. My assumption was
Speaker 1: that he's playing the long game here. He's playing the game,
Speaker 1: uh to where he knows that this year is a
Speaker 1: developmental year. He wants to see which of these young
Speaker 1: guys he wants to keep around long term, which of
Speaker 1: these young guys can be used as trade bait going forward.
Speaker 1: And they're in a good situation where, now that you
Speaker 1: know Anton gave us assigned with Rich Paul as his agent,
Speaker 1: they could potentially go down that road for a trade,
Speaker 1: or they could also have the option of using their
Speaker 1: max cap space next summer, and it could be a
Speaker 1: situation where they use both. So he is in a
Speaker 1: year where I think he knows this is I don't
Speaker 1: want to say it's a wasted year, but it's a
Speaker 1: year where he's probably not going to be competing on
Speaker 1: the highest level and he's trying to position the chips
Speaker 1: on the board to where he can compete at the
Speaker 1: highest level with the Warriors. Again, especially when you know
Speaker 1: we can talk about the Warriors situation as well. There's
Speaker 1: no indication right now that Kevin Durant is for sure
Speaker 1: going to be in Golden State next year. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: want to get to that. Let's let's conclude here. On
Speaker 1: the Lakers, I'm trying to figure out though, Like I
Speaker 1: do think there's a certain amount of tweaking taking place
Speaker 1: to where they're they're trying to figure out if a
Speaker 1: Lonzo has it right. Like I think that, I think
Speaker 1: the coaching staff that the parts that the guys that
Speaker 1: I know they like. Look, we really like a Lonzo.
Speaker 1: He's a very good rebounder. He's an incredible passer um,
Speaker 1: and he's a He's a good teammate and a good
Speaker 1: player in that he you show him something on film
Speaker 1: and he tries to legit, tries to make an adjustment,
Speaker 1: and like this is basically freshman year to sophomore year.
Speaker 1: His body has changed dramatically and that should help his
Speaker 1: game all around. On the other hand, he didn't get
Speaker 1: to play that much with that body because he had
Speaker 1: the knee surgery in the off season. That said, I
Speaker 1: don't know, I feel like announcing it that early is
Speaker 1: either to pacify Rondo or to motivate Zoe or maybe
Speaker 1: both right, Like they didn't announce a KCP starting, or
Speaker 1: if it's Josh Hart, they announced anything out, Like what
Speaker 1: are they doing with Kyle Kuzma. You know KU's in
Speaker 1: many parts is better coming off the bench, so he
Speaker 1: can be a starter to a bench player. I do
Speaker 1: feel like they're tweaking Zoe a little bit to try
Speaker 1: and figure what he's got between his chest and if
Speaker 1: he can stand up and take the job from Rondo.
Speaker 1: Is that Is that a fair guess? I think that's
Speaker 1: a reasonable guest. I am fascinated by this Alonzo ball
Speaker 1: gen Rondo situation just because I think it's incredibly combustible
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways. Like Jon Rondo is starting.
Speaker 1: We've seen what LaVar ball is like whenever Alonso is
Speaker 1: wronged in LaVar's mind, So it's it's a combustible situation.
Speaker 1: But I think Alonzo proved last year that he is
Speaker 1: a useful NBA player. He's a very good defender. Last
Speaker 1: year he's a very good passer. Uh. He plays team
Speaker 1: ball in the manner that I'm sure Luke Walton wants
Speaker 1: to run in his body makes it so that he's
Speaker 1: a lot more useful in their defensive scheme where they
Speaker 1: want to switch all actions. So it's it's a complicated situation,
Speaker 1: but I think I agree with your initial point that
Speaker 1: it is a place where they're trying to challenge Alonzo
Speaker 1: Ball to come back from this injury with a vigor
Speaker 1: and with a verb and to get used to his
Speaker 1: body and to figure out everything that is going on
Speaker 1: with this game. And then there's the part that maybe
Speaker 1: I don't get, which is I like Rondo, um, but
Speaker 1: you know, guy like me can appreciate how you can
Speaker 1: play this long and be this successful without a jump shot,
Speaker 1: but that that's not traditionally what Lebron likes for his
Speaker 1: point cards, right, and and Lebron no, he wants to
Speaker 1: handle and even Lebron plays out of the post, like
Speaker 1: are we gonna have back? You know, Rondo back, you
Speaker 1: know in what's called the ghost which is the position
Speaker 1: if you take the backboard and you go all the
Speaker 1: way out to the end edge of the court, like
Speaker 1: below that level, closer to the baseline. That's the ghost position.
Speaker 1: That's where Boston would put him offensively so that his
Speaker 1: man couldn't help or double team or get in the
Speaker 1: way because he can't shoot. Is that where we're putting rondo?
Speaker 1: Is that? Because that screws up your defensive balance as well.
Speaker 1: I just I'm fascinated to see how the rondo a
Speaker 1: Lonzo thing works out, how the rondo and loop things
Speaker 1: works out, and then how the rondo and Lebron thing
Speaker 1: works out, because those are not pieces that traditionally would
Speaker 1: be aligned. Yeah. No, I agree with that, But even
Speaker 1: more than that, all of those combinations fascinating. I agree
Speaker 1: with you. But the most important thing that the Lakers
Speaker 1: have to find out this year are how a Lonzo
Speaker 1: Ball and Brandon Ingram play together with Lebron James. Because
Speaker 1: Brandon Ingram not a super comfortable shooter. Yet he's shot, like,
Speaker 1: I want to say, from three last year or something
Speaker 1: in that range. So he did it on like one
Speaker 1: attempt to game. Bonzo Ball obviously struggled to shoot it
Speaker 1: last year. I'm a big believer in body strength and
Speaker 1: just improving your frame, improving your muscle uh tone and
Speaker 1: definition can really help a jump shooter because it becomes
Speaker 1: a little bit easier to keep your mechanics consistent throughout
Speaker 1: the long kind of an NBA season. So I think
Speaker 1: that that could really help his jump shot. But again,
Speaker 1: we're talking about a guy who's an unproven shooter right
Speaker 1: now at the NBA level. So how did those two
Speaker 1: guys more for Lebron, who is traditionally, as you said,
Speaker 1: love to have shooters around. I am fascinated and I
Speaker 1: think that that is the absolute biggest thing that the
Speaker 1: Lakers have to figure out in the first year of
Speaker 1: Lebron experiment. Here, any join us, Let's let's get to
Speaker 1: the Golden State Warriors. There is kind of this, this pilaver,
Speaker 1: this this slow murmur of hey, Kevin Durand doesn't He's
Speaker 1: not tied to any one place. If you had to
Speaker 1: put a percentage chance he he leaves Golden State, what
Speaker 1: would it be. It sounds fifty to be honest, Like
Speaker 1: it really sounds like it's up in the air that
Speaker 1: at some point over the next year, probably in free
Speaker 1: agency next year, he is real potential leave. He talks
Speaker 1: to people around the league. You here New York, like
Speaker 1: I've heard something like Rich Kleiman is close with the
Speaker 1: Knicks front office. He grew up a Knicks fan, Like
Speaker 1: he's gonna kind of, you know, maybe push Kevin Durant
Speaker 1: that way or Uh. You know, I don't think anyone
Speaker 1: pushes Kevin Durant, but he could end up playing a
Speaker 1: role moving Kevin Durant that way. You hear about lost
Speaker 1: names with Lakers, hear about the Clippers. You hear all
Speaker 1: of these teams that are gonna have max cap space
Speaker 1: next summer, they're gonna be in the Kevin Durant market.
Speaker 1: And I don't know what Kevin Durant still its throve
Speaker 1: uh in Golden State right now in San Francisco. I'm
Speaker 1: just unclear what his what his motivation would be for staying,
Speaker 1: unless he genuinely just wants to win seven or eight championships,
Speaker 1: like that's fine, that's totally a reasonable assessment. But if
Speaker 1: he wants to go down is one of the five
Speaker 1: best players to ever play the game, which I think
Speaker 1: is a reasonable approximation of where his ceiling is, he
Speaker 1: probably has to go somewhere else and pleas that he
Speaker 1: can do it on his own. And why does he
Speaker 1: have to go somewhere else? I mean, like, look, if
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, he's led the league
Speaker 1: in scoring, he's won an m v P and he
Speaker 1: wins let's say they win it this year and he
Speaker 1: wins four or five or six? What is he? I
Speaker 1: don't I don't understand what's going on. You know, everybody
Speaker 1: wants everybody wants to be the guy that fixes the Knicks, right,
Speaker 1: And I could go through the Phil Jackson and Larry
Speaker 1: Brown and come in Low Anthony, and like I could,
Speaker 1: you could go through the list of guys that, over
Speaker 1: the last thirty years, Rick Pettino of the last have
Speaker 1: tried to be the guy like yeah, Marius Dottomyer's a
Speaker 1: penny hardaway. I mean there, but there are plenty of
Speaker 1: guys who are like, I'm gonna be the guy who
Speaker 1: fixes the New York Knicks. It sounds like a great idea,
Speaker 1: and at some point somebody is going to find a
Speaker 1: way to win, right, we see futility streaks come to
Speaker 1: an end. But uh, I don't know. I don't know
Speaker 1: why he have Why do you have to Why would
Speaker 1: you ever split tens? And any that he's splitting tens
Speaker 1: he's got twenty one showing Yeah, no, I I generally
Speaker 1: agree with you on this, but you're always going to
Speaker 1: hear that from other people who do these legacy type conversations.
Speaker 1: Oh he had to go join Stephan Curry and the
Speaker 1: best team ever to win a title. He had he
Speaker 1: couldn't win on his own, so he couldn't win with
Speaker 1: Russell westbro CU's an m v P. He couldn't win
Speaker 1: with James Harden who's an m VP, so he had
Speaker 1: to go do it with the best team ever. That's
Speaker 1: gonna be a thing that is said about his legacy,
Speaker 1: like we did it with Lebron until Lebron one in
Speaker 1: Cleveland by himself, essentially with helping Kyrie, I mean, Kevin Love,
Speaker 1: but it's very clear that he's on a different level
Speaker 1: than those guys. So look, I agree with you generally
Speaker 1: that we shouldn't hold this against Kevin Durant. You know
Speaker 1: that with the way that this stuff goes, now, that's
Speaker 1: gonna be what's said about it. Like that is gonna
Speaker 1: be what his legacy would be if he wants to
Speaker 1: win five or six titles. No question, it's funny. It's
Speaker 1: it's at least interesting. Maybe I don't know if interesting
Speaker 1: or funny. It's like Lebron, Like, look, when Lebron went
Speaker 1: to Miami, they went got Chris Bosh and Dade Wade
Speaker 1: was already there, so one that was essentially a super team, right,
Speaker 1: and then they added you know, Ray Allen, Right, so
Speaker 1: you got you got four Hall of Famers on a
Speaker 1: team that's not a super team. I don't know what
Speaker 1: it is. And three of those guys were playing in
Speaker 1: different different UH locations, you know, before they got to Miami,
Speaker 1: so it's not like they were a homegrown and people
Speaker 1: people held it against him that he left Cleveland, but
Speaker 1: nobody said, how you joined a super team? Now you
Speaker 1: have and and he got to the NBA Finals, couldn't win.
Speaker 1: He got to the Eastern Conference Finals and lost. Kevin
Speaker 1: Durant is the same thing in Oklahoma City. He leaves
Speaker 1: and joins the Golden State Warriors, and all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: he well, he's the only one joining a super team.
Speaker 1: I don't help me out. I don't understand that. Is it?
Speaker 1: Because the Warriors beat the Thunder and the Heat didn't
Speaker 1: beat the Calves, that's the logic behind it. Are you
Speaker 1: saying that you think that the narrative was Lebron didn't
Speaker 1: join a super team? Yes, I think I think that. No,
Speaker 1: I think it definitely was the narrative, like from what
Speaker 1: I remember, at least, like that's all That's all I remember.
Speaker 1: But I think that people, I think people are forgetting
Speaker 1: that part of the narrative. Now. Now it's because he won,
Speaker 1: and because it's time, because he went back to Cleveland
Speaker 1: ultimately one and right, like, look, when he went back
Speaker 1: to Cleveland, he Kyrie Irving was waiting there and they did.
Speaker 1: They went and got Kevin Love instead of keeping the
Speaker 1: number one overall pick, which was Eggins. So I mean
Speaker 1: there was a super team kind of form there too,
Speaker 1: And let's just be honest. But I don't think I
Speaker 1: agree with you, So so won't time won't time heal
Speaker 1: that wound? With Kevin Durant, I think that success yield
Speaker 1: that wound for Lebron, and the idea of quote unquote
Speaker 1: going home kind of brushed over it in many ways.
Speaker 1: Bringing Cleveland their first title is a shitty in what
Speaker 1: sixty years something like that. I think that that brushed
Speaker 1: over it in a way that uh, continuing to win
Speaker 1: titles in Miami couldn't ever really brush over for his
Speaker 1: legacy for some people. With Kevin Durant, I think that
Speaker 1: he needs to do basically what Lebron did. Their careers
Speaker 1: are on stunningly similar tracks right now. In terms of
Speaker 1: team success. Both of them went to an NBA Finals
Speaker 1: before leaving their first destination, and both of them ended
Speaker 1: up being unceremoniously kind of beaten easily. And then they
Speaker 1: go to a different home, they win a couple of titles.
Speaker 1: They're very clearly established. In my opinion, Kevin Durant established
Speaker 1: him best player on that team last year at some point.
Speaker 1: So they've established themselves over the incumbent star as the
Speaker 1: best player on the team. And now what happens next
Speaker 1: is a big question. How does this go from here?
Speaker 1: And to me, some people are always just gonna hold
Speaker 1: it against Kevin Durant. To me, I'm a big fan
Speaker 1: of do whatever makes you happy, Kevin, Like we we
Speaker 1: see Kevin Durant have to create burner accounts and talk
Speaker 1: to people online because there's clearly something there that is
Speaker 1: I I don't want to know if I don't know
Speaker 1: if it's an insecurity, I don't know if it's just
Speaker 1: something that he's not pleased with in his life. I
Speaker 1: just want Kevin Durant to be happy. I want him
Speaker 1: to feel fulfilled in his life, and I wonder if
Speaker 1: he will get the respect that he so meaningfully requires
Speaker 1: if he stays in Golden State. I just don't know
Speaker 1: if that's gonna happen. He's had his success, he's had
Speaker 1: his titles, he has established himself, in my opinion, as
Speaker 1: someone who will go down as one of the ten best,
Speaker 1: fifteen best players. Ever, I think to raise into that
Speaker 1: next spechial on, which is genuinely where his feeling lies,
Speaker 1: He's gonna have to go somewhere else. For a lot
Speaker 1: of people. Boston Celtics to the second best team is
Speaker 1: I don't really feel like it's close. Like I think
Speaker 1: Oakland City has improved. I'm not sure Houston. I don't
Speaker 1: think Houston is as good a team, even though they
Speaker 1: have really really good pieces. Uh, but I feel like
Speaker 1: people are underselling how talented, how talent laden this Boston
Speaker 1: team is, and how I actually think the pieces fit
Speaker 1: together really really well. Um, would you dispute that I
Speaker 1: agree with you one Uh? Like you said, they're kind
Speaker 1: of a perfect modern basketball team, and that's the pieces
Speaker 1: fit together super super well. You have young stars and
Speaker 1: Jaylen Brown and Jason Tatum and Terry Rosier who are
Speaker 1: kind of motivated I think to continue their rise into
Speaker 1: the upper echelon of basketball teams. You have older stars
Speaker 1: like Al Horford and Kyrie Irving who are looking to
Speaker 1: establish themselves as pre eminent players who can lead a
Speaker 1: team to a title. Uh, you know, as the leaders
Speaker 1: of the group. And then you have Gordon Hayward, who,
Speaker 1: if people forget since his injury, was genuinely one of
Speaker 1: the twenty best players in the NBA when he signed
Speaker 1: in Boston. So the pieces fit together. They have a
Speaker 1: legit bench in Terry Rosier in uh, you know, guys
Speaker 1: like Marcus Morritt, Marcus Smart. Yeah, all all of these
Speaker 1: excellent players. They're loaded. I think they're gonna win like
Speaker 1: sixty five games this year. Loaded. Yeah. It's it's really
Speaker 1: fascinating on how people have I don't know what it is,
Speaker 1: is maybe their infatuation with Tatum and with Rosier, and
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden they dismissed Gordon Hayward like, well,
Speaker 1: maybe he'll come with the bench, Like he was an
Speaker 1: All Star in the West. You know, he was the
Speaker 1: biggest free agent prize and they landed him. Um, he's
Speaker 1: not coming off the bench, you know. Yeah. By the way,
Speaker 1: he's a guy who can play four positions on the
Speaker 1: court and has improved every year he's been in the NBA.
Speaker 1: Why why would he? Jason him has a chance, has
Speaker 1: a chance somewhere down the road to be a better
Speaker 1: player than Gordon Hayward. He is not close to being
Speaker 1: that player yet. Gordon Hayward did not play last year
Speaker 1: except for what a couple minutes, and Jason did manage
Speaker 1: fourteen a game in the regular season and there was
Speaker 1: like seventeen a game in the postseason. Like he has
Speaker 1: he has to be a really good player, but he's
Speaker 1: not there yet, and he was not coming off the
Speaker 1: bench anytime soon. Yeah, I mean, if Hayward returns to
Speaker 1: what his peak was in Utah, he's not, or Jason
Speaker 1: Tatum is not as good as he is yet. It's
Speaker 1: it's just a reality of the situation. But I think
Speaker 1: that's where the question comes in, Right, is Gordon going
Speaker 1: to come back and be that same guy or if
Speaker 1: he's gonna be a slightly diminished version of that coming
Speaker 1: off the knee injury. I tend to think that at
Speaker 1: this point, medical uh expertise has come so far that
Speaker 1: h c L injuries, you miss a year and you
Speaker 1: come back mostly the same, So I think it's probably
Speaker 1: gonna be fine. I think he's gonna return and be
Speaker 1: every bit of what he was. Yeah, you break your leg,
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean all we can go by is
Speaker 1: Paul George, right, I mean break you know, that's that's
Speaker 1: like the only guy who's had that kind of injury
Speaker 1: and he's come back. And Paul George wasn't great right
Speaker 1: out of the shoot, but Paul George and Paul George
Speaker 1: broke his leg in the summer. This one happened ruin
Speaker 1: the fall. But I think Gordon Hayward has been ready
Speaker 1: to go for a while now. All right, last thing,
Speaker 1: um after the draft, I thought, well, Trey Young, because
Speaker 1: he's on a terrible team, is going to shoot the
Speaker 1: ball all the time, is going to be Rookie of
Speaker 1: the Year. Like just the sheer volume of opportunities that
Speaker 1: he's going to get leads me to think that he's
Speaker 1: gonna be He's gonna have some crazy nights that are good,
Speaker 1: some crazy nights that are awful, and winning doesn't really matter,
Speaker 1: so the stats will carry him through. But everything everyone
Speaker 1: I've talked to about Luca don Chick has said like, look,
Speaker 1: you guys, realize he's ready to play and contribute and
Speaker 1: be good in the NBA for a good team him
Speaker 1: right now. And I don't think the Mads are nearly
Speaker 1: the train wreck that they look like they were because
Speaker 1: they were trying to lose games at the end of
Speaker 1: last year. If I make you pick a Rookie of
Speaker 1: the Year before the season has ever begun, who is it? Uh? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I picked Luca at the draft. I picked Luca a
Speaker 1: month ago when I got lucky and got him at
Speaker 1: one to win Rookie of the Year. And I am
Speaker 1: picking him like I've seen no reason to believe that
Speaker 1: he's not going to be the best rookie. He is
Speaker 1: very clearly the like most ready to step in and
Speaker 1: see the guy for a Dallas team. He's gonna play
Speaker 1: just as many minutes, I think is what Trey Young does,
Speaker 1: and I think he's a better player right now. So
Speaker 1: I'm gonna Luca don Chich and I agree with you.
Speaker 1: The Dallas team not nearly as bad as what people
Speaker 1: are expecting. DeAndre Jordan's going to play a significant role.
Speaker 1: Having adults in the room like Harrison Barnes, Wesley Matthews,
Speaker 1: Turknovitsky that's gonna help a lot. And then a year
Speaker 1: of maturation from Dennis Smith is gonna help. So yeah,
Speaker 1: the Grizzlies were trying to lose games. The Mavericks are
Speaker 1: trying to lose games. I think the Sons if they
Speaker 1: can get a point guard, and looks like they may
Speaker 1: get one as part of this Minnesota Jimmy Butler trade. Um,
Speaker 1: I think that's gonna be fascinating sun skiing in a
Speaker 1: point guard if they can start trying to win games.
Speaker 1: Last thing, let me ask you about Jimmy Butler. Um,
Speaker 1: he was supposed to be the guy that was the
Speaker 1: best fit for Tips and yet NAT turns out he
Speaker 1: and Tibbs don't actually like each other all that much
Speaker 1: and he wants out. I had I had been told
Speaker 1: that he didn't jibe with Carl Town's or with Wig
Speaker 1: all that Well, going back to last year, what are
Speaker 1: we left? We're left with Minnesota team that finally got
Speaker 1: to the playoffs and we thought we had some hope
Speaker 1: and now Jimmy Butler's on his way out, Like, well,
Speaker 1: what are we left with here? In Jimmy Butler's case,
Speaker 1: I think we're left with questions on a uh, does
Speaker 1: he fit personally with anything but a select few players
Speaker 1: in the NBA, like, let's just be honest. Not everyone
Speaker 1: in the NBA the work ethic that Jimmy Butler does.
Speaker 1: It's I think okay to just admit that, and I
Speaker 1: think that Jimmy has to maybe recalibrate that when it's
Speaker 1: sometimes he doesn't quite He said this in the past,
Speaker 1: he doesn't really get that everyone doesn't have the drive
Speaker 1: that he does. I think that's more of a personal
Speaker 1: adjustment he has to make. And then secondarily, on the
Speaker 1: Minnesota side, they have to figure out what they want
Speaker 1: to do because you hear reports out of uh Minnesota,
Speaker 1: you hear reports nationally that there's a real power struggle
Speaker 1: going on right now in terms of who's going to
Speaker 1: complete this deal and if this deal is gonna be completed.
Speaker 1: Tom Thibodeau doesn't want to complete this deal because he
Speaker 1: doesn't want to rebuild. Glenn Taylor kind of sees the
Speaker 1: writing on the wall and is reading the tea leaves.
Speaker 1: He says, we should do this and just cut our losses.
Speaker 1: Teams that have come into contact with them are struggling
Speaker 1: in terms of the breakdown of communication on trade talks.
Speaker 1: So it's a mess up there. Man like I am
Speaker 1: fascinated to see how this thing ends. It seems like
Speaker 1: Miami maybe has taken the lead, but there are a
Speaker 1: lot of teams that could use Jimmy Butler and use
Speaker 1: him potentially in the Eastern Conference. Is the propelling point
Speaker 1: to move from borderline making the playoffs maybe being a
Speaker 1: four or five seed to legit competing I think at
Speaker 1: least for the number two seeds behind Boston. Fascinating, fascinating stuff. Sam.
Speaker 1: Look forward to reading your work, hearing your work on
Speaker 1: your podcast, and of course hanging out with you and
Speaker 1: talking ball uh the entire season long. Thanks so much
Speaker 1: for joining us on All Ball, Doug. I feel like
Speaker 1: so many of my brethren who cover college basketball and
Speaker 1: who do in fact love college basketball, we're like trying
Speaker 1: to shake every dollar out of college basketball to get
Speaker 1: to the players when they're already really well compensated, and
Speaker 1: we're trying to chase guys to the NBA, even though
Speaker 1: there's a natural progression from college to the NBA and
Speaker 1: there is no one kind of protecting it. You know,
Speaker 1: for years we've heard from college basketball coaches saying, you know,
Speaker 1: why not put the baseball rules in the problem with
Speaker 1: the baseball rules, in addition to the fact that baseball
Speaker 1: players don't actually get paid until really their fourth year
Speaker 1: in professional baseball. As you get college baseball, which as
Speaker 1: good and gritty of sport as it is, is not
Speaker 1: nearly as well regarded, as well funded and as as
Speaker 1: well watched. So with every game being on TV, with
Speaker 1: Urena's getting bigger and so the crowd sometimes get smaller,
Speaker 1: you lost some of your you're built in traditional rivalries
Speaker 1: with conference expansion. Um, I think college basketball is it
Speaker 1: doesn't mean it's stinks and it's still gonna be awesome. Gonzaga,
Speaker 1: We're gonna talk about Gonzaga and Kentucky and Duke and
Speaker 1: to a lesser, slightly lesser extent, a couple other Okay
Speaker 1: I mentioned Kansas, Like, those are the four probably favorites
Speaker 1: coming into the year, Four big boys that have all
Speaker 1: kind of been to a Final four recently, one a
Speaker 1: nationally many of one national championship recently, or Kansas and
Speaker 1: can Zach have been really close. Those are the four favorites.
Speaker 1: And then there's you know, the Carolinas and the Syracuses
Speaker 1: and some of these other teams that are uh that
Speaker 1: are trying to kind of climb that climb that ladder
Speaker 1: to being in the final four. It should be a
Speaker 1: great college basketball season. I just I wonder if as
Speaker 1: basketball people were doing a good enough job to protect
Speaker 1: the sport as to the NBA. The couple of interesting
Speaker 1: points that should be made about this NBA season that
Speaker 1: are not I think sometimes in mainstream media anyway, as
Speaker 1: good as the San Antonio Spurs were last year, and
Speaker 1: think about what they're gonna throw out there this year.
Speaker 1: You know, you add a DeMar DeRozan to LaMarcus Aldridge
Speaker 1: and de jont Murray as you're starting point guard for
Speaker 1: the second consecutive year, you'd think he'll develop some offensive game.
Speaker 1: He's already stellar defensively. The Spurs should be better. Look
Speaker 1: at the West and you tell me where the easy
Speaker 1: nights off are. I look at the Milwaukee Bucks, and
Speaker 1: I think the Bucks and the Wizards among other teams,
Speaker 1: and of course the Raptors should be I think they're
Speaker 1: better getting Kawhi Leonard. And remember you're like, wait, you
Speaker 1: just said the Spurs are better because they lost Kawhile Leonard. No,
Speaker 1: Kauai didn't play last year except for nine games, So
Speaker 1: Kawhi Leonard healthy playing in Toronto, Toronto be better. He's
Speaker 1: better than DeMar dear Rosen, But DEMARDA Rosen playing is
Speaker 1: far better than Kawie Letard not playing. Last year, you
Speaker 1: got teams like the Utah Jazz, Portlands Trouble Lazers probably overachieved.
Speaker 1: They take a step back this year. The point is
Speaker 1: the NBA has done a really good seat job of
Speaker 1: kind of controlling the narrative, the storyline all of basketball.
Speaker 1: That's what we're talking about, not really the college game,
Speaker 1: with the exception of Duke because their trip to Canada
Speaker 1: and um, I think the West is stacked, but I
Speaker 1: think the East, at least the top of the East
Speaker 1: is better than it has been or you know, in
Speaker 1: many ways, the Celtics are a better team. I think
Speaker 1: if healthy, then the Calves were over the past couple
Speaker 1: of years. Do they have any one player who's as
Speaker 1: good as Pete Lebron James, No, but they have Kyrie,
Speaker 1: and I think Kyrie should be a better version of
Speaker 1: himself with Brad Stevens with this lineup, second year in
Speaker 1: Boston plus coming into his prime, and they're supporting cast
Speaker 1: is better than that which the Calves had. Hey make
Speaker 1: sure you listen to The Doug Gottlieb Show weekday afternoons
Speaker 1: three to six Eastern time on twelve to three Pacific
Speaker 1: on Fox Sports Radio dot Com, Fox Sports Radio, The
Speaker 1: Philly at the I Heart Radio app. And I believe
Speaker 1: we're back on serious sex sem Channel Light three, but
Speaker 1: don't hold me to that. Fired up for basketball season,
Speaker 1: We'll continue to throw great interviews your way, and we
Speaker 1: appreciate you downloading, subscribing, and listening to all on Doug
Speaker 1: gotlind