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Speaker 1: From Meat Eaters World News headquarters in Bozeman, Montana. This

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Speaker 1: is Cow's Week in Review with Ryan col Klan. Here's Cal. Hey,

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Speaker 1: there're Col's week in Review Cal in the wild Listeners,

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Speaker 1: we got another fantastic interview for you this week with

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Speaker 1: Jenny Luciett, and Jenny is going to fill us in

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Speaker 1: on a topic that we've covered off and on in

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Speaker 1: the past. In fact, we did a whole video on

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Speaker 1: it down in New Mexico. We were rounding up feral

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Speaker 1: cattle and we talked about some other critters out there

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Speaker 1: on the landscape, like wild horses and burrows as well.

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Speaker 1: So right now we're in this really interesting time where

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Speaker 1: all of these agencies, Department of Interior, BLM, US Forest Service,

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Speaker 1: US Fish and Wildlife Service, everything's getting shooken up. And

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Speaker 1: one interesting thing that's kind of come out of this

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Speaker 1: is there's a writer in an upcoming bill that would

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Speaker 1: enable agencies to implement management, some would say higher management,

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Speaker 1: some would say management of some level on our wild

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Speaker 1: horse and burrow populations that are roaming around a lot

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Speaker 1: of our public lands here in the West, not just

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Speaker 1: the West, but those are the kind of the ones

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Speaker 1: that we're talking about right now, not out there on

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Speaker 1: the shore of Maryland, but it will apply to that

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Speaker 1: in a way as well. So from my home state,

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Speaker 1: broadcasting from my home state of Montana, we have a

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Speaker 1: big mosaic drought and certain parts of the state are

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Speaker 1: hit really hard. And when those parts of the state

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Speaker 1: are hit really hard with drought, oftentimes will see emergency

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Speaker 1: measures that allow grazers our ranchers. And I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to hold this against you, but I'm assuming a lot

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Speaker 1: of people who listen to this show have probably seen

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Speaker 1: that farcical portrayal of my wonderful home called Yellowstone. So

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Speaker 1: like the real versions of those fancy Hollywood people who

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Speaker 1: run cattle and try to make a living off of

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Speaker 1: short prairie grass, well, those folks don't have the ability

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Speaker 1: to graze cattle in a sustainable way on their their

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Speaker 1: private ground or their Bureau of Land Management or sometimes

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Speaker 1: US Forest Service leases. And then we'll see these emergency

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Speaker 1: measures where our state wildlife management areas become available for

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Speaker 1: grazing in order to help spread some of the burden

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Speaker 1: out during these trying times. And that's not like an

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Speaker 1: atypical thing. It happens, but that's a real kind of

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Speaker 1: narrow little snapshot of kind of what we're talking about today.

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Speaker 1: So you have grazers on the landscape if you're raising those,

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Speaker 1: anything else that grazes on the landscape is kind of

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Speaker 1: a form of competition. We talk about like bison being

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Speaker 1: reintroduced to the prairie. Well, bison eat grass, elkiat grass.

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Speaker 1: Antelope and deer eat grass, as do the beef. So

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Speaker 1: one thing that boy the history. We just hopefully Jenny,

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Speaker 1: you'll get into into the history here. She's she's our expert.

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Speaker 1: Is we have wild free ranging herds of like I

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Speaker 1: pointed out earlier, sometimes they're cattle, but we're talking about

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Speaker 1: horses and burrows today that are out there on the

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Speaker 1: landscape competing for grass. That, especially in trying times of

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Speaker 1: drought and a little to no surface water, you have

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Speaker 1: an unmanaged or lightly managed, highly political situations such as

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Speaker 1: the wild horse burrow, and their actions can have real

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Speaker 1: implications on both our wildlife huntable and non huntable, as

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Speaker 1: well as our domestic livestock production. So extremely long intro. Jenny,

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Speaker 1: thank you for sitting through that. What do you do?

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Speaker 2: What do you do? Well?

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Speaker 3: You know you mentioned this, you know the complexities of

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Speaker 3: this user of the range lands. I mean, one of

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Speaker 3: the things you didn't point out is the fact that, Okay,

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Speaker 3: there's grazers utilizing that land. And I'm not sure competition

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Speaker 3: is the greatest word, because a big thing in when

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Speaker 3: we're talking about wild horses is you've got a lot

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Speaker 3: of groups that are staying. Will you take the cattle

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Speaker 3: off and livestock then and you know the horses will

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Speaker 3: be fine. Well, first off, this is the only grazing

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Speaker 3: animal that is overpopulated and not in balance. And the

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Speaker 3: opening words in the Wild Horse and Burrow Act is

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Speaker 3: that it sustains an ecological balance on the range. So

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Speaker 3: every other grazing animal out there is mandated and are

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Speaker 3: balanced at what we call appropriate management levels. Again, the

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Speaker 3: horses aren't. And I want to say right now, I

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Speaker 3: am not a horse hater. As a matter of fact,

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Speaker 3: I have one branded Mustang sitting in my backyard with

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Speaker 3: two quarter horses. So this isn't about decimating them. But

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Speaker 3: the facts are on the grazing side. When you talked

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Speaker 3: about ranching and those types of things within the one

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Speaker 3: hundred and seventy five herd management areas that just the

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Speaker 3: bee lamb manages not the rest of the Forest Service ones.

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Speaker 3: I believe there's thirty seven territories. They all fall under

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Speaker 3: that act. But since that Act was passed, livestock grazing

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Speaker 3: within those herd management areas have gone down by approximately

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Speaker 3: thirty seven to forty percent in the allocated plans. Okay,

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Speaker 3: and I want to be clear, and you kind of

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Speaker 3: stated this in the intro, which I love, but for

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Speaker 3: folks that don't understand, this is you've got a plan

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Speaker 3: in place, an allocation in place that says, basically, on

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Speaker 3: the best year possible, no drought, no fires, none of

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Speaker 3: those things we can't control, are at the best you

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Speaker 3: know levels. So that's your highest allocation you're going to get.

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Speaker 3: The opposite is what the use is. And we've got

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Speaker 3: herd management areas here in my home state of Nevada

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Speaker 3: that they still have the grazing allotment, but they haven't

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Speaker 3: grazed those livestock in their ranches since the nineteen eighties.

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Speaker 3: So so talking about cattle and horses or cattle in

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Speaker 3: and wildlife is not talking about apple staples. So I

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Speaker 3: just wanted to get that out of the way, and

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Speaker 3: we can answer any questions forward, but let's talk about

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Speaker 3: wildlife versus horses that are on the ranges three hundred

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Speaker 3: and sixty five days a year. They're not managed, they're

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Speaker 3: not rotated, none of those stipulations come into play. And

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Speaker 3: so when you're looking at you know, wildlife alone here

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Speaker 3: in Nevada alone, I've got a graph that shows all

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Speaker 3: of the angulence, all of the wildlife ungulents compared to

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Speaker 3: wild horses and burrows. And when you look at that

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Speaker 3: chart and you see the difference from the nineteen eighties

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Speaker 3: to today, it's it's almost criminal. So that's what we're

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Speaker 3: talking about. There is a call to action out there.

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Speaker 3: What we and when I say we, over one hundred

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Speaker 3: and twenty conservation wildlife groups, scientists, professors and coalitions have

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Speaker 3: all joined together and basically called on Congress to finally

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Speaker 3: uphold the law and protect our range lands. And you

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Speaker 3: stated this earlier. Basically what has occurred, and you know

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Speaker 3: this goes forth to Congress. Congress has a law that's

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Speaker 3: pretty well written and has been amended, and I can

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Speaker 3: go into the details of that if you want. But

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Speaker 3: every year during the Appropriations Act, which for the federal

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Speaker 3: government is October first, they have put forth writers like

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Speaker 3: you stated onto that Appropriations Act. So they're not amending

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Speaker 3: the law, they're not rewriting the law law, they're not

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Speaker 3: doing anything else. They're just saying follow law is written,

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Speaker 3: but you can't follow this one section that was an

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Speaker 3: amendment to the Act in two thousand and five six,

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Speaker 3: and that is you know, the law's eight pages long.

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Speaker 2: It's not a heavy reader.

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Speaker 3: So I recommend people looking at that law, reading it

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Speaker 3: and dissecting it and really understanding what it's stating.

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Speaker 2: So Congress has been.

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Speaker 3: I guess, you know, convinced by large packs and large

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Speaker 3: animal activist groups that they can't follow a section in

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Speaker 3: that thirteen thirty three, and that's basically stating any animal

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Speaker 3: over the age ten or has been offered for adoption

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Speaker 3: can be sold immediately. So as sold immediately, what that

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Speaker 3: means is in this nineteen seventy one Act or the

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Speaker 3: government holds the title of that adopted animal for a

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Speaker 3: year to check on it, make sure it's being humanly

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Speaker 3: taken care of, and then at the end of that year,

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Speaker 3: that person that owns that horse in their backyard can

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Speaker 3: apply for a title. So it's just like a car

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Speaker 3: or anything else. Unfortunately, horses over the age of ten.

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Speaker 3: Aren't typically animals that are wild. They're not domestic animals.

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Speaker 3: They're wild, are going to be something somebody's going to

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Speaker 3: come forth and adopt. And so over the years, over

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Speaker 3: the history for fifty four years, we've gone up and down.

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Speaker 3: And in two thousand and seven, the horse population, the

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Speaker 3: wild horse population BLM and Force Service was one thousand

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Speaker 3: horses away in the ten western states at being out

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Speaker 3: appropriate management levels. The next administration came in and decided

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Speaker 3: we're not going to gather animals anymore. People are telling

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Speaker 3: us they'll manage their own selves.

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Speaker 2: Well.

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Speaker 3: So from two thousand and seven at about twenty nine

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Speaker 3: thousand horses on the range in the areas they were found,

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Speaker 3: by twenty twenty they went up to ninety five thousand

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Speaker 3: on the range. So since then we have been doing

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Speaker 3: everything in our power, whether it's you know, the public

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Speaker 3: because we own the lands, really saying all we got

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Speaker 3: to do is follow the Act. Forget these things that

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Speaker 3: keep bringing forward, trying to rewrite the Act, et cetera.

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Speaker 3: We just want to follow the Act as it's written period.

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Speaker 3: So we're asking Congress to do the simplest thing, just

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Speaker 3: drop that rider for fifty four years. We've tried it

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Speaker 3: the activist way, and we're asking for five years to

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Speaker 3: show you that by following the law as it's been

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Speaker 3: written and mended, we can get those populations to that level.

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Speaker 1: So and Jenny, we've been talking about the Wild Horse

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Speaker 1: and Burrow Act.

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Speaker 3: It's called nineteen seventy one Wild Free Roaming Horses and

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Speaker 3: Burroughs Act.

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Speaker 1: So that's been for those of us, sorry who because

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Speaker 1: we started pretty hot out of the gate here. Okay,

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Speaker 1: we left out of the chute, so to speak. Folks

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Speaker 1: may be wondering who the heck you are and why

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Speaker 1: do we need Jenny Luciatt's experience and perspective here. What

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Speaker 1: is your background?

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Speaker 3: Jenny, So, I actually retired over a year ago from

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Speaker 3: the federal government from the Bureau of Land Management. The

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Speaker 3: majority of that time with the Bureau of Land Management.

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Speaker 3: This was twenty years in the federal government. My main

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Speaker 3: focus was the Wildhorse and Borough program. I began my

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Speaker 3: government career at the age of forty. So. I also

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Speaker 3: come from the private sector and went to d C

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Speaker 3: from Nevada after nine to eleven, and in my head

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Speaker 3: it was I'm going to go to d C I'm

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Speaker 3: going to learn what I can and I'm going to

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Speaker 3: come back to Nevada and get a job with the state.

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Speaker 2: Things are changing.

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Speaker 1: Well.

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Speaker 3: My entire life I've spent, you know, in the equestrian world. Also,

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Speaker 3: you know very much about rangeland management. So when I

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Speaker 3: got to d C and folks started hearing this, I

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Speaker 3: spent a couple of years in contract positions and then

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Speaker 3: came forth with the State Department and a small quasi

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Speaker 3: government called the Millennium Challenge Corporation. From there, how I

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Speaker 3: got in government was I was a schedule see political

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Speaker 3: appoint appointee under the Bush administration. Spent about two years

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Speaker 3: in that position, and at that time I was transferred

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Speaker 3: from the Millennium Challenge Corporation to the Bureau of Land Management,

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Speaker 3: and basically they saw my resume that I had ran ranches.

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Speaker 3: That was the year that the Act was amended with

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Speaker 3: section thirteen thirty three. I spoke of and immediately BLM

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Speaker 3: brought me in to help with the communications and marketing

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Speaker 3: and legislation that was going to change with that Act.

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Speaker 3: So I spent many years in Washington, d C. Came

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Speaker 3: back to Nevada in what we call a detailed position

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Speaker 3: during the RA years the American Recovery Reinvestment Act. I

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Speaker 3: supposed to be there for three years and then got

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Speaker 3: a call saying we need you in Wyoming. So I

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Speaker 3: was transferred to Wyoming as the Wyoming Wildhorse and State

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Speaker 3: Program Manager with oversight on the entire state of Wyoming,

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Speaker 3: all those districts, all those herd management areas. Before I

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Speaker 3: came back to Nevada, spent a couple of years in

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Speaker 3: mineral management, so really dealt into the environmental assessments, those

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Speaker 3: sorts of things to really better understand how we balance

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Speaker 3: on the range. The Bureau of Land Management, for a service,

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Speaker 3: is what they call a multiple use organization, So that

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Speaker 3: kind of goes back to people need to understand we're

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Speaker 3: not the Park Service and just doing a park. Every

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Speaker 3: single acre out on that land is managed and utilized

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Speaker 3: by something. So when you bring in new things or

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Speaker 3: threatening endangered species, those allocations need to be balanced together

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Speaker 3: so that we can bring forth the effects of everything else.

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Speaker 3: So it's really complex, and I don't want to get

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Speaker 3: too deep into it.

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Speaker 1: Well that that you can touch on one of my

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Speaker 1: pet peeves when I hear, well, you know, the private

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Speaker 1: land has managed so much better. Yeah, and my response

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Speaker 1: at this point is, well, I'm sure as hell hope.

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Speaker 1: So Yeah, comparatively, it's pretty simple. Yeah, and any person

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Speaker 1: can make a decision.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you can determine what you're going to have on

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Speaker 3: your private land. You know, you've got everything from you know,

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Speaker 3: butterflies and plants to wildfowl migration paths, you know, everything

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Speaker 3: from elk, moose, antelope, you know, all of those species

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Speaker 3: that are out there.

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Speaker 1: You know that that and you can have a mining

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Speaker 1: claim in the middle of it, exactly. Yeah, and it's

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Speaker 1: all got to be weighed out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So it's definitely a moving complex subject and that's the

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Speaker 3: that's how the BLM came into this, you know. So

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Speaker 3: it is the mandate. It does change. But what's been

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Speaker 3: funny over the years, you know, and I say over

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Speaker 3: eighteen years directly involved with the horse program, where I'm

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Speaker 3: writing legislation, write and testimony to Congress, policies, readjusting where

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Speaker 3: we see fit, you know, new drugs coming in, doing research,

250
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Speaker 3: all of that stuff. That's part of this adoptions, marketing,

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Speaker 3: all of it. So you know, I'm thankful. I'm probably

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Speaker 3: one of the only people out there that basically is

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Speaker 3: done about every position. You know, My first position there

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Speaker 3: was the communications, but it was also running the national

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Speaker 3: budget for the wildhorse.

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Speaker 2: And Burro program.

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Speaker 3: And I want to point something out. When I came

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Speaker 3: in to the BLM in two thousand and five, our

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Speaker 3: budget was about thirty seven million dollars for the program.

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Speaker 3: Today the appropriations is one hundred and forty two million dollars.

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Speaker 3: That's ludicrous. And the worst part of it is eighty

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Speaker 3: percent of that last year was spent on feeding horses that,

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Speaker 3: in my opinion, nobody wanted. You know, adoption is never

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Speaker 3: kept up with what we've got in holding, and so

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Speaker 3: of that eighty percent we're talking one hundred and forty

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Speaker 3: two million dollar budget, one hundred and one million dollars

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Speaker 3: was spent on feeding animals that nobody's adopted.

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Speaker 1: Well, I got to push back on you there, Jenny.

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Speaker 1: Any time I see any sort of media surrounding wild horses,

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Speaker 1: they're all beautiful, good looking ponies out there. So you're

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Speaker 1: telling me people don't want beautiful, good looking ponies.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, yes they do. But you know, let's

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Speaker 3: focus on marketing here. So when we have gathers, the

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Speaker 3: public is allowed to come see the gather We own

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Speaker 3: the government, right, we have that ability to come see

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Speaker 3: the gathers. So these large groups send out folks to

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Speaker 3: take pictures of the gathers. And I've sat there on

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Speaker 3: well over one hundred gathers for fifteen hours a day

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Speaker 3: during the gather session, and all I hear every hour

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Speaker 3: because trust me, it takes about an hour to get

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Speaker 3: the animals slowly moved toward the trap site. At the

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Speaker 3: pace that the animals move, those helicopters are not on

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Speaker 3: top of the animals.

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Speaker 2: Picture is worth a thousand words.

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Speaker 3: But if you've got the right camera shot, boy, you

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Speaker 3: can manipulate it. So those people are literally I'm hearing,

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Speaker 3: with the camera are taking up to five thousand pictures

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Speaker 3: a day, and then they're uploading them and then those

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Speaker 3: big packs are going through the picture to find that

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Speaker 3: one beautiful shot. And that's what we call their money shot.

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Speaker 3: So what you see on social media is a marketing

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Speaker 3: scam to a certain effect. Yes, on the adoption side,

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Speaker 3: you want to show the pretty horses. More people buy

294
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Speaker 3: colorful horses. They don't want the browns, blacks and bays,

295
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Speaker 3: you know, which is the majority of horses out there.

296
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Speaker 3: They want that splash effect. So a lot of really

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Speaker 3: great horses.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I prefer.

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Speaker 3: Those bays over anything else. You know, they've got better

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Speaker 3: confirmation in my opinion, those sort of things.

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Speaker 2: But that's talking at a different level.

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Speaker 3: Unfortunately, there's a lot of animals that are left behind

303
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Speaker 3: that could do very well. And also it's the market.

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Speaker 3: There's a lot of stipulations to adopting. I adopted five

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Speaker 3: horses to a gentleman in Austria and immediately folks from

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00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:07,479
Speaker 3: the other side always a deflection, We're screaming, I ah,

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Speaker 3: he's going to eat the horses. Well, let me tell

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Speaker 3: you what. By the time he was able to get

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Speaker 3: those horses to Austria back in I'm going to say

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Speaker 3: twenty ten, it cost almost thirty thousand dollars a piece

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Speaker 3: to get those animals from when he adopted them to

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Speaker 3: his ranch in Austria, and quite frankly, thirty thousand dollars

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Speaker 3: a piece, that's some pretty expensive sausage. So let's stop

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Speaker 3: this about slaughtering of wild horses. I had to due

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Speaker 3: a report to Congress those horses that at the time

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Speaker 3: when we had commercial processing plants and an oversight here

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Speaker 3: in the United States, there was less than one percent

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Speaker 3: of horses that were going to those commercial processing plants

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Speaker 3: that had a brand on their neck. And there was

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Speaker 3: zero horses that were untitled that ever went through a

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Speaker 3: commercial processing plant. So all of this kill buyer stuff,

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Speaker 3: everything else is a business ploy.

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Speaker 2: So let's stop there.

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Speaker 3: When I talked about those one hundred and twenty conservation groups,

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Speaker 3: folks like you, boots on the ground doing things rangeland

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Speaker 3: resource protection, restoration, those sort of things. Unfortunately, today, your

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Speaker 3: best rangeland restoration project in the ten Western States would

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Speaker 3: be getting these animals, these horses and burrows to an

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Speaker 3: appropriate management level that's been established across. If you do that,

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Speaker 3: then you're going to start seeing areas. We can't control fire,

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Speaker 3: we can't control drought. We can control the number of

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Speaker 3: animals on the range. And it's through the hunting, restoration, trapping,

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Speaker 3: those sort of things. The only animal not being managed,

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Speaker 3: and even livestock raising, all of that's being managed at

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Speaker 3: those levels.

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Speaker 2: The only thing.

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00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,480
Speaker 3: That's not being managed is the horses today. And let

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00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 3: me trust let me, you know, trust me when I

339
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 3: say we are doing this for all the animals out there.

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Speaker 3: Nobody's trying to decimate the ranges or decimate the horse populations.

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Speaker 3: We just want, just like the law says, at an

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Speaker 3: ecological balance on the range.

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Speaker 1: What is the range of the well? First of all,

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Speaker 1: i'd love like, do you call them wild horses or

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Speaker 1: are they faral horses?

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Speaker 3: Okay, it's funny because in the act they call them

347
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Speaker 3: wild horses. Okay, so that's the title in the act.

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Speaker 3: Here in my state of Nevada, we've got the eight horses,

349
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:05,959
Speaker 3: they call them astray horses because at one time they

350
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 3: were all zeroed out. You can never catch every single horse,

351
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 3: and now they're ten times over in that section they

352
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 3: call them astray horses. And then you've also got feral horses.

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Speaker 3: At the end of the day, they're all the same thing.

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Speaker 3: In the one hundred and seventy five herd management areas

355
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,919
Speaker 3: for the BLM across the United States, there are only

356
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 3: five herd management areas and ones in your state of

357
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 3: Montana that have any Spanish type blood in what we've

358
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 3: done in genetic testing, and when I'm talking Spanish type blood,

359
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:48,960
Speaker 3: I'm talking one two three percent. So they are you know, feral, astray,

360
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 3: wild whatever you want to call them. But let's forget

361
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Speaker 3: about the deflections that keep going forth. These are animals

362
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Speaker 3: on the range. The unfortunate part is that these range

363
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 3: lands have a lot of landlords. And when I say

364
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,719
Speaker 3: that that's Congress, it's not only the American public, but

365
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,160
Speaker 3: the landlords that are tasked and taking care of them

366
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 3: are a congressmen and senators. And when you've got a

367
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 3: congressman in Pennsylvania or Florida, or Texas, even to a

368
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,640
Speaker 3: certain extent Arizona, even where there are a lot of burrows,

369
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 3: it's hard for them to understand, especially the East coast,

370
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Speaker 3: the situations we have in our high desert lands on

371
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Speaker 3: the west. These aren't the flowing pastures where they're getting,

372
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 3: you know, significant amount of rain. In Nevada, the average

373
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Speaker 3: rainfall is seven to ten inches a year, so high desert.

374
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Speaker 3: So that's where this is getting too. Is we are

375
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 3: beyond you know, oh we've got to manage this, and

376
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:07,159
Speaker 3: oh we've got some time. We are at beyond a

377
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,679
Speaker 3: crisis level, and we are already seeing in the West,

378
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 3: you know, range lands that will never be recovered. I mean,

379
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,159
Speaker 3: think about this, the California Trail, everybody loves it. You

380
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 3: can still see the ruts from the wagons coming across

381
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:25,680
Speaker 3: the California Trail. Why because that land's been so decimated

382
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 3: that it will never grow back. And when you overgraze

383
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 3: any amount of land to a point where that plant

384
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:42,119
Speaker 3: source can't be rejuvenated, it's gone, and it's it's gone

385
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:47,119
Speaker 3: for decades. So so that's when I say we are

386
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 3: beyond a crisis level.

387
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:57,399
Speaker 1: And so is there a defined range for wild horses?

388
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: Like has the US government said this is where these

389
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:08,360
Speaker 1: animals belong? And we just got a story last week

390
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,200
Speaker 1: that somebody was letting horses go on Idaho.

391
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Speaker 3: Yep, rewilding and Idaho. I know a little bit about that,

392
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,159
Speaker 3: and there's somebody else that has tried that.

393
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Speaker 1: Okay, so we'll start there.

394
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 3: There is, and it's stated in the act itself that

395
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:34,400
Speaker 3: back in nineteen seventy one.

396
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 2: They flew out.

397
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 3: They people flew out, flew across the ten Western states

398
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 3: and basically did a map with big old circles saying, okay,

399
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 3: we saw horses here, here, here, and here.

400
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 2: They came back. Excuse me, they came.

401
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 3: Back and basically Wyoming, I think Montana is the same, Nevada.

402
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 3: Most we're open range. In other words, ranchers would put

403
00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 3: their horses out in the wintertime to graze, bring them

404
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 3: back in in the spring and summer months, call what

405
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 3: they needed, taken what they wanted, those sort of things.

406
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 3: So you know, they never were able to catch every

407
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 3: single wildhorse. So what they did in nineteen seventy one

408
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:18,479
Speaker 3: is they gave them a sixty day claiming period so

409
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 3: all ranchers could come back and claim their private property

410
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 3: and remove them from the range. After that they went

411
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 3: back out. So the big circles were what they called

412
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 3: herd areas. And so those big circles is where they

413
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 3: saw them. Once the ranchers came back took their private property,

414
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 3: they flew it again and those became in nineteen seventy

415
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 3: one herd management areas. Those are the designated areas. And

416
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 3: when I talk about that currently today, just for the BLM,

417
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 3: there's one hundred and seventy five herd management areas. That

418
00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 3: means you can't just pick them up and relocate them.

419
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 3: It's does it states where they were found in nineteen

420
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 3: seventy one period. So this rewilding Idaho. You know, I

421
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 3: see that as a great title, But if anybody wants

422
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 3: to go out there, and they want to buy private property,

423
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 3: private branches, those sort of things, and they want to

424
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 3: put wild horses on that private property.

425
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 2: Do it.

426
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,959
Speaker 3: That'll help. That's stepping up and doing something. But then

427
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 3: you've got something like rewilding, Idaho within that private property

428
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 3: that they've purchased. It's checkerboarded, there are and it's and

429
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 3: this is more the Forest Service. So this is just

430
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 3: me doing my own research because maybe I'm a freak

431
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 3: about it, but I don't want to see things get

432
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 3: out of control.

433
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 1: If there's been some US Forest Service grazing allotments in there, that.

434
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 3: Looks like there's four of them, and so in time

435
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 3: people will ask to convert a cattle grazing allotment to

436
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 3: a horse grazing allotment or sheep or any type of

437
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 3: other livestock, because let's face it, horses are livestock. So

438
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 3: at this point, if those conversions are going to be made,

439
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 3: then truly cattle grazing, what they consume need to consume

440
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 3: in comparison to horses is a different level. Horses consume

441
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 3: more forage, or is needed to consume more forage and

442
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 3: water than cattle, so that conversion needs to be taken

443
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 3: place at the very beginning, how many horses can you

444
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 3: graze in those areas? And by the way, cattle allotment

445
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 3: grazing is typically limited to and there's lots of limitations.

446
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 3: And in this case, what I found out from what

447
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 3: I found out, now I could be right or wrong

448
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 3: to a certain extent, but it looks like those grazing

449
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 3: allotments are from July until September. Okay, So in this case,

450
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 3: just like cattle or anything else, in this case, those

451
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 3: allotments cannot be utilized per the nineteen fifty six or

452
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 3: fifty seven Tailor Grazing Act and those limitations and stipulations

453
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 3: within them. So in other words, they'd have to fence

454
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 3: off that area and remove horses from utilizing that area.

455
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 3: And at this point I know for a fact they

456
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 3: haven't done that to the extent. And also there's requirements

457
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 3: when it comes to taking on untouched wild horses and burrows.

458
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 3: You're fencing has to be significant. You've got to prove

459
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 3: how much hay and stuff you're feeding them, if that

460
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 3: the water resources are there, et cetera. So you've got

461
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 3: to prove humane treatment. So sticking up a couple of

462
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 3: barbed wire fences is not a humane treatment for these

463
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 3: wild horses, so that fencing is looked at as you

464
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 3: apply for adopting horses or even purchasing animals. So you know,

465
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 3: what I'm seeing is there's a lot of work to

466
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 3: be done before this is actually logical. And from what

467
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 3: I had been told by very reliable sources, there was

468
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 3: Originally these folks, who by the way, come from New York,

469
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 3: came in and requested because even though there's limitations in

470
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 3: the law about how many horses you can adopt or

471
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 3: purchase without you know, with the title, the secretaries of

472
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 3: both the Interior and the Forest Service do have the

473
00:33:55,480 --> 00:34:00,160
Speaker 3: ability to look out what they're asking for and say,

474
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 3: you know, yes, you know, you've proven to us that

475
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 3: you can handle many more horses than this.

476
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 2: Et cetera.

477
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:09,719
Speaker 3: So there is it, and it's the secretary's order, not

478
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 3: the bureau lay of Management.

479
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 2: It rises to the secretaries.

480
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:18,279
Speaker 3: So that this group came in and requested fifty studs,

481
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 3: which by the way, BLM does not adopt out studs.

482
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 3: They do what we call guilding of every stallion that's

483
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 3: brought in. So so right there, it's like fifty you

484
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 3: can have, you know, They asked for fifty males and

485
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:35,279
Speaker 3: fifty females.

486
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 1: And intact in males and females a breeding population, right.

487
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 3: And they were advised that's not going to happen, but

488
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:48,400
Speaker 3: still they wanted fifty and fifty. They went out there,

489
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:54,480
Speaker 3: they saw, you know, their plans, everything stood the ground,

490
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 3: and said, you don't have the correct fencing. We've got

491
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:02,479
Speaker 3: to talk about threeronments under the allotment. You know, there's

492
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 3: a lot of stipulations that come in and I went

493
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 3: through this and I don't need to name the person.

494
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 3: Folks that know it understand who it was. Came in

495
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:16,279
Speaker 3: and did that here in Nevada, in kind of the

496
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 3: Wells area of the northern part of the state. And

497
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm saying it's gone on over a decade

498
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 3: because originally she came in in two thousand and six.

499
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 3: I want to say to the BLM saying I'm going

500
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,759
Speaker 3: to take every horse that's in holding. And then it

501
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 3: was like, well, wait a second. You know, I'm only

502
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 3: going to I'm going to do that, but I need

503
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 3: to be paid for the feed, and I'll wait a second.

504
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:40,799
Speaker 2: You know.

505
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 3: So a lot of that went on. She bought a

506
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 3: ranch in the Wells area and the requirement was to

507
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 3: do an environmental assessment because it butted up onto the

508
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 3: government lands public lands. There were allotments throughout this checkerboard area.

509
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 3: And to this date that environmental assessment has never been

510
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 3: completed or accepted or signed. So there's still back and

511
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 3: forth with that one person that started this in two

512
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:19,280
Speaker 3: thousand and six. So again it's misinformation going out there.

513
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:24,400
Speaker 3: You know, there's a dream in there. And again, if

514
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 3: they can do this and they have the private property

515
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:31,320
Speaker 3: and they follow the laws as they are written, whether

516
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 3: it's the Grazing the Tailor Grazing Act, or the Wild

517
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 3: Horse and Burro Act, or the Environmental Protection Act or

518
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 3: Range Land Improvement Act, there's a lot of levels to

519
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 3: this that have to be followed before it's like, oh,

520
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,359
Speaker 3: I'll take the source and just let them out. By

521
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:50,399
Speaker 3: the way, you adopt a horse and you let them

522
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 3: back out on the range, it's a federal offense for

523
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 3: every single animal you do that for there's up to

524
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:01,399
Speaker 3: two thousand dollars in fines animal and up to five

525
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 3: years in prison. So people think and they can adopt

526
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:08,360
Speaker 3: a horse and just throw it out on the range,

527
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:11,960
Speaker 3: it's not wise thinking that so.

528
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 1: And you know, managing horses on private ground in a

529
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 1: sustainable fashion is labor intensive, right like, And they don't

530
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:25,920
Speaker 1: typically just get a free range their whole life away

531
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:28,320
Speaker 1: on private property.

532
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean because it turns to dirt right right.

533
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 3: If you think you're going to grow a couple acres

534
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 3: of grass in your backyard and you're gonna be able

535
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 3: to maintain a horse that typically needs twenty pounds of

536
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:50,360
Speaker 3: forge a day, and I'm talking about nutritional forage a

537
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 3: day and at least a minimum of five to fifteen

538
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:58,920
Speaker 3: gallons of water a day. Those couple acres give it

539
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:02,479
Speaker 3: a week, you know, it's not going to sustain them.

540
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 3: And you know, I own horses. They're in my backyard.

541
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,840
Speaker 3: I'm very fortunate to have been able to find a place.

542
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:14,239
Speaker 3: But they're not grazing anything. I have to purchase that

543
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 3: hay and that hey from. You know, I'm going to

544
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 3: say twenty years ago, I could buy for seven dollars

545
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:25,239
Speaker 3: a bale. That one bale might feed a horse for

546
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 3: five days. Currently, I'm paying anywhere from twenty eight dollars

547
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 3: a bail on up to thirty five dollars a bail,

548
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:38,760
Speaker 3: and that's not counting maintaining their feet in a humane fashion,

549
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 3: maintaining vaccinations that are required in each state vet bills.

550
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 3: Because I put more stitches in my domestic horses than

551
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:50,719
Speaker 3: I've seen injuries and wild horses.

552
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 2: It's not a.

553
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 3: Cheap hobby to have, and it depends on where you

554
00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:01,759
Speaker 3: live and those sort of things, so it's not for everybody.

555
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 3: But you know, look, these large advocacy groups are now

556
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,799
Speaker 3: posting all over social media that the biline wants to

557
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 3: kill sixty three thousand horses.

558
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:15,240
Speaker 2: That's not the case.

559
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 1: Number one, Well, let's talk what are the management options,

560
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 1: because you know, as a as a hunter and the

561
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 1: way we manage wildlife populations. You know, I'm not a

562
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:33,240
Speaker 1: callous person, but even if we put it in terms

563
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,360
Speaker 1: of wild, free ranging yellow labradors, which I happen to

564
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:40,520
Speaker 1: be very fond of, there's there's a portion of that

565
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:49,319
Speaker 1: population when looked at at large scale that that can

566
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 1: only be put down right, right, and so I know

567
00:39:54,200 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 1: that there's been a long running program of uh sterilization.

568
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 3: Right, we can and I'm not going to stop you,

569
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:11,919
Speaker 3: but I do want to say this, we can talk

570
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 3: about those other tools when we get to appropriate management levels.

571
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 3: Because if we're talking fertility control drugs, sterilization was going

572
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 3: to be research and of course these packs and advocates,

573
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:27,319
Speaker 3: you know, once they start doing something, they're always going

574
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:30,960
Speaker 3: to fight. It's always going to be a lawsuit, litigation, litigation, litigation,

575
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:33,919
Speaker 3: which by the way, costs us as taxpayers a lot

576
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 3: of money. So when they're doing research projects and they

577
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:40,239
Speaker 3: come they come in and try to litigate it, know

578
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 3: when they are likely to lose the litigation, we aren't

579
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 3: going to spend that kind of taxpayer dollars on litigation

580
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 3: and appeals going back and forth when we've got you know,

581
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 3: programs to manage that comes out of those program dollars. So, yes,

582
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 3: sterilization was started to be re surge that came in.

583
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 3: By the way, the Department of Interior do not have lawyers.

584
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 3: They have to go and hire the Department of Justice

585
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 3: to work all their cases within the Department of Interior,

586
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 3: which BLM is just a small agency within that. So

587
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:25,880
Speaker 3: let's talk about you know, efficiencies. So when we're talking

588
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 3: fertility control drugs, we've been using fertility control drugs since

589
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:34,439
Speaker 3: the nineteen nineties, been promised a longer lasting agent. Ever

590
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:38,920
Speaker 3: since then, they've gotten as far as typically they last

591
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 3: eighteen months, and there's many different forms of it.

592
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:45,399
Speaker 2: There's one group and.

593
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 3: Again I'm not going to name that group people that

594
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:51,759
Speaker 3: are aware of this, where the rumors is that they

595
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 3: actually own the patent on a particular fertility control that

596
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 3: me personally am not in favor of. Because this drug

597
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:05,240
Speaker 3: bug all it does is it uses pigovaries. It's shot

598
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 3: into them. There's two forms of it. One lasts about

599
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 3: a year, that's the darting stuff. The other one can

600
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:16,879
Speaker 3: last up to eighteen months, but the effectiveness goes down

601
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 3: once once they're inoculated. And by the way, just to

602
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 3: get the inoculation done is a process. So long story short.

603
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 3: That drug PZP. What it does is it coats the egg.

604
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 3: So in other words, that mayre is constantly in heat.

605
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:42,800
Speaker 3: This is wildlife. This is animals. They aren't humans, okay.

606
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 1: So biting and kicking and fighting each other constantly exactly.

607
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 2: So if I.

608
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 1: Don't want to be a chauvinist here, because now she's

609
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:54,840
Speaker 1: sending mixed signals right.

610
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 3: Right, And what do they do? They grays, They have babies.

611
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 3: That's it. That's what they do. They're living their out there.

612
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 3: So to me personally, again and a female, I don't

613
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:13,160
Speaker 3: want to be in heat all the time, you know,

614
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:15,680
Speaker 3: and they're going to be in heat until they're pregnant,

615
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:22,240
Speaker 3: so that particularly is not my preference. There's another agent

616
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:27,400
Speaker 3: out there that's been approved called GonaCon that does start

617
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 3: to go into the ocytes, into the actual egg and

618
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:35,399
Speaker 3: kind of what we've seen in you know, different scientific

619
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:39,839
Speaker 3: papers is that it does kind of stop that fertility,

620
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:45,920
Speaker 3: you know, that period or that segment. So that to

621
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:48,040
Speaker 3: me is much more humane. If you're going to use

622
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 3: the fertility control drug. Again, if they're not at appropriate

623
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 3: management levels, fertility controlled drug is doing nothing what a

624
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:57,440
Speaker 3: fertility control drug does.

625
00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 1: Plus like what would be the a bill to doctor

626
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 1: that many animals right like the human power.

627
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're in Nevada.

628
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:10,840
Speaker 3: If you think you're going to go out there, and

629
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 3: we're talking to hunters right now, a lot of them.

630
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:16,279
Speaker 3: If you think you're going to go out there with

631
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 3: a shiny rifle on the millions of acres in Nevada,

632
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:24,760
Speaker 3: find this horse, shoot them in the butt with a dart.

633
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:27,440
Speaker 2: Go pick up that dart.

634
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 3: Hope you hope you hit it and it went in

635
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:32,280
Speaker 3: and then go and find that horse a year later

636
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:35,720
Speaker 3: in the exact same place, or eleven months later in truth,

637
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:40,600
Speaker 3: because horses having eleven month just station cycle good luck

638
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 3: number one. Number two, These fertility controlled drugs, if the

639
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:50,480
Speaker 3: mayor is already pregnant, does not affect that pregnancy. So

640
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:53,840
Speaker 3: now on eleven month just station cycle, you shoot a

641
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:56,200
Speaker 3: mayor that may have a fole on her side, she's

642
00:44:56,360 --> 00:45:01,000
Speaker 3: likely pregnant already with the next fole, and so therefore

643
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:05,399
Speaker 3: your effectiveness of that. If it's a one year drug,

644
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:09,279
Speaker 3: it's gone okay. If it's an eighteen month drug, that

645
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 3: effectiveness is now much lower by the time that they

646
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:16,800
Speaker 3: go back into heat and you're searching for that animal again.

647
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 3: So it's not there are areas where that can be effective.

648
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:24,880
Speaker 3: It's done in acet you know, on the East coast

649
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:25,880
Speaker 3: ast Gorilla.

650
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 2: They do a very good job.

651
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 3: But those herds are i think one hundred and fifty

652
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:34,440
Speaker 3: and one hundred and seventy five we're talking currently.

653
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 1: And around people right right, and.

654
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:41,399
Speaker 3: They're fenced in and they don't have other animals coming in.

655
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:42,360
Speaker 2: Look.

656
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:47,760
Speaker 1: So one of our management options to get us down

657
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:52,840
Speaker 1: to the level that we're supposed.

658
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 3: To be at So currently, the only thing that Congress

659
00:45:56,280 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 3: is allowing because of that rider is that gathering animals.

660
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:02,759
Speaker 3: You know, first off, they've got to give us an

661
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:11,439
Speaker 3: appropriations that can cover everything planning, gathering, maintaining, processing them

662
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:15,480
Speaker 3: for adoptions, holding them, and holding. I mean, there's many factors.

663
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:18,839
Speaker 3: So first off, it's the appropriations that they give us.

664
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:22,840
Speaker 3: By the way, if they allowed everything in the Act,

665
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:26,200
Speaker 3: we could save them in one year forty million dollars

666
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:30,799
Speaker 3: them being US taxpayer dollars. Forty million dollars could go

667
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:35,560
Speaker 3: a long way in areas. Long story short, So gathering horses,

668
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 3: I'm removing them from the range, you know, utilizing fertility

669
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 3: control where it's feasible and it is being utilized. You

670
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 3: know there's that argument, oh, you're not you're not getting

671
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:50,759
Speaker 3: all the marrors. Well, first off, you're not going to

672
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:54,560
Speaker 3: get all the mirrors. But second off, there's also stipulations

673
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:56,880
Speaker 3: to that. Why are you going to put a wild

674
00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:01,399
Speaker 3: animal through the process of giving it fertility control when

675
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 3: clearly it's pregnant or has a brand new fole on

676
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 3: its side that you're not going to kick back out

677
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 3: that mare with a brand new fole because that mayor

678
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:17,160
Speaker 3: is going to take off and leave that fole. So

679
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 3: those animals are taken into holding, right, and we've got

680
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:25,520
Speaker 3: pregnant mayors taken into holding. So the other option that

681
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:28,920
Speaker 3: we're allowed to use is adoptions and since two thousand

682
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 3: and five, sale without limitation any horse over the age

683
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:40,480
Speaker 3: of ten currently in holding in our private pastors across

684
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:45,080
Speaker 3: the United States. We've got and I'm looking at a

685
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:51,560
Speaker 3: document because I just updated this, we have thirty eight

686
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:57,839
Speaker 3: preparation maintenance type facilities, which are the corrals. Okay, those

687
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:01,239
Speaker 3: horses need to be vaccinated, they need feet done, they

688
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:04,840
Speaker 3: need all of that stuff fed hay because they're in corrals.

689
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 3: There's thirty three pastures and they're located in basically the

690
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:17,479
Speaker 3: midwest Kansas, South Dakota, but they're separated by sex. They're

691
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:22,080
Speaker 3: in a confined area which is quarantined. So it's a

692
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:26,960
Speaker 3: lot cheaper to have them in pastures. But currently right now,

693
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:31,680
Speaker 3: just in those thirty three pastures, there's over thirty nine

694
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:36,280
Speaker 3: thousand horses. There's those burrows out there. Borrows are pretty

695
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:39,879
Speaker 3: easy to adopt or in a smaller portion, So this

696
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 3: is all horses of those thirty nine thousand horses and

697
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:49,759
Speaker 3: By the way, these are privately owned contracted facilities. There's

698
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:54,440
Speaker 3: only four facilities that the public can actually go see

699
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:58,399
Speaker 3: and possibly adopt from it. So nobody will ever see

700
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:01,680
Speaker 3: these horses again. They'll never see the wild again. There

701
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:05,359
Speaker 3: are horses in there up to the age of thirty two,

702
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:09,640
Speaker 3: so now we prolong their lives. And of those thirty

703
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:13,600
Speaker 3: nine thousand, there's thirty six thousand that are over the

704
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:14,239
Speaker 3: age of ten.

705
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:18,759
Speaker 2: And our solution the one hundred.

706
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 3: And twenty groups plus everybody that are now signing petitions,

707
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:26,880
Speaker 3: our first initial solutions is to get these animals to

708
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:30,600
Speaker 3: appropriate management on the range because quite frankly, the range

709
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:35,640
Speaker 3: comes first. If that range is dead, that nothing's going

710
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 3: to survive. You'll have no wildlife, no wild horses, no livestock,

711
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:45,800
Speaker 3: no birds and foul no rabbits, no anything on that range.

712
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:50,279
Speaker 3: They have to have that range to survive. So we

713
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:54,239
Speaker 3: need to get them to appropriate management levels, and we

714
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:59,120
Speaker 3: need to allow when you asked about what things we have,

715
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:03,439
Speaker 3: we need to allow that third section thirteen thirty three

716
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:08,560
Speaker 3: of the Act is allowed horses over the age of

717
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 3: ten to be sold without limitation. And I've talked to

718
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:19,640
Speaker 3: people in Congress, people in the interior. And our suggestion is,

719
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 3: let's go back to nineteen seventy one. Let's do a

720
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:29,080
Speaker 3: sixty day claiming type period. Let's offer every single horse

721
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:32,680
Speaker 3: over the age of ten to every single five oh

722
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:38,200
Speaker 3: one C three sanctuary, animal rights group animal, you know,

723
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:43,279
Speaker 3: any of those groups first so that nothing needs to

724
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 3: be put down. That's thirty six thousand horses. They testified

725
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:56,200
Speaker 3: to Congress they could take every animal unwanted animal and

726
00:50:56,360 --> 00:51:00,319
Speaker 3: stop the commercial processing. Plants in the United States claim

727
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:04,040
Speaker 3: to have millions of followers. Thirty six thousand is a

728
00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:09,080
Speaker 3: pretty low level, so I'm sure you'll find either adopters

729
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:12,719
Speaker 3: to take these animals over the age of ten or

730
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:17,400
Speaker 3: open up a sanctuary, buy some private land, put those

731
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 3: animals on. But by the way, they're going to be

732
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:23,880
Speaker 3: alive from until they're twenty or thirty years old, so

733
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:25,440
Speaker 3: they're going to fill up two.

734
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:29,600
Speaker 2: At some point. But no animal needs.

735
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:32,640
Speaker 3: To be euthanized if we did that to begin with.

736
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:36,160
Speaker 3: On the other side of this, once we got these

737
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:40,040
Speaker 3: animals to appropriate management levels on the range, we're not

738
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:43,399
Speaker 3: going to have to gather twenty thousand horses a year.

739
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 3: We're going to only have to gather by utilizing at

740
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:52,560
Speaker 3: that point fertility controlled drugs where it's feasible thirty five

741
00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:56,480
Speaker 3: hundred to five thousand a year. And by the way,

742
00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:59,600
Speaker 3: in the last ten years, BLM has been able to

743
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:06,480
Speaker 3: up those adoptions to last year, we sold I think

744
00:52:06,680 --> 00:52:09,480
Speaker 3: something like twelve hundred, and I say we I don't

745
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:10,400
Speaker 3: work for them anymore.

746
00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:11,439
Speaker 2: Let me make that clear.

747
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:16,040
Speaker 3: The BLIM sold like twelve hundred animals gave instant title.

748
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:18,440
Speaker 3: The rest of those were adopted, and I think it

749
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 3: was eighty six hundred. I'd have to check that number

750
00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:27,560
Speaker 3: were adopted. So, by the way, if we adopted eighty

751
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:30,239
Speaker 3: six hundred in a year and we've only got to

752
00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:34,480
Speaker 3: gather a maximum five thousand for once in the fifty

753
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:37,880
Speaker 3: four years of doing this, that's going to balance it out.

754
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:44,000
Speaker 1: And now your demand's going to outweigh your supply finally, right, right,

755
00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:54,200
Speaker 1: Why are these animals sitting in these facilities for so long?

756
00:52:55,719 --> 00:53:01,120
Speaker 1: Because what's happening in that instant Okay, I have way

757
00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:03,080
Speaker 1: too many questions and we just don't have enough time.

758
00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:08,680
Speaker 1: I don't know why it's ten years old or older.

759
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:11,200
Speaker 1: I got a buddy who I work with who just

760
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:13,000
Speaker 1: paid out the nose for a three year.

761
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:18,640
Speaker 3: Old ten years old a wild animal figure, you've got

762
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:20,640
Speaker 3: to get a halter on them, you've got to touch them.

763
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:25,799
Speaker 3: They're dangerous animals. So in my opinion, most people that

764
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 3: are definitely horse type people are looking at younger animals

765
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:33,200
Speaker 3: three to five years old. After five, but we've got

766
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:36,400
Speaker 3: groups that are working with BLM that are training horses

767
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:39,160
Speaker 3: that are five to eight and in some cases have

768
00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:45,520
Speaker 3: the ability. But that's a very distinguished trainer in hands.

769
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:49,560
Speaker 3: So bottom line, anything over the age of ten basically

770
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:52,440
Speaker 3: becomes yard art is better off in a large pasture

771
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:56,359
Speaker 3: that they can maintain their own feet. Those are what

772
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 3: those pastors are in the Midwest. There's an environmental assessment

773
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:03,640
Speaker 3: that looks into them. So and we've only got thirty

774
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:07,640
Speaker 3: eight corrals across the United States, which again is ludicrous,

775
00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:11,319
Speaker 3: So there's only so much room. I mean, look, these

776
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:13,880
Speaker 3: aren't goldfish. You don't stick them in a tank and

777
00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:16,760
Speaker 3: put them on a counter. They're large animals, eight hundred

778
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:20,719
Speaker 3: pounds to twelve hundred pounds, and everybody thinks, you know,

779
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:24,960
Speaker 3: it's the Walt Disney unicorns and rainbows. These are large animals,

780
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:30,280
Speaker 3: they're aggressive animals and So once you get to that point,

781
00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:33,880
Speaker 3: and once we got to a point of gathering animals

782
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:36,120
Speaker 3: on the range, when we were at ninety five thousand,

783
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:40,120
Speaker 3: we were taking everything we could get. It didn't matter

784
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:43,879
Speaker 3: what came in efficiencies, everything else. Back in the day

785
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:46,480
Speaker 3: when I started Bielum, they did what they call gate

786
00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:50,959
Speaker 3: cut gathers. They would bring animals in, they'd gather them,

787
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:54,320
Speaker 3: they'd separate them, and they would literally take the older

788
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:58,040
Speaker 3: animals and put them back out on the range, let

789
00:54:58,080 --> 00:55:00,360
Speaker 3: them live their lives on the range. Why put the

790
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:03,520
Speaker 3: stress of an animal that's been out there into corrals

791
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:07,120
Speaker 3: and do all this. So I would love for us

792
00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:10,360
Speaker 3: to be out appropriate management levels, go back to doing

793
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:15,600
Speaker 3: those types of gate cut gathers. And also, by the way,

794
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:20,200
Speaker 3: in those one hundred and seventy five him as, if

795
00:55:20,239 --> 00:55:23,000
Speaker 3: you gather like as states in the law, to the

796
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:26,839
Speaker 3: minimal feasible level, you don't even have to go back

797
00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:31,120
Speaker 3: into that herd management area for four years because horses

798
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:36,759
Speaker 3: start going up about twenty percent on an average per year.

799
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:43,480
Speaker 1: So less management, less cost to the taxpayer.

800
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:48,000
Speaker 3: Less stress on the animals, you know, and all the

801
00:55:48,080 --> 00:55:51,839
Speaker 3: animals out there. So we need to get back to

802
00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:57,480
Speaker 3: how we realistically did this before all these activists and

803
00:55:57,719 --> 00:56:01,400
Speaker 3: packs that are making millions of dollars off the horses

804
00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:07,239
Speaker 3: backs that have no solutions and do no rangeland restoration

805
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:12,480
Speaker 3: came in and started litigating and litigating and litigating and

806
00:56:12,520 --> 00:56:18,480
Speaker 3: litigating frivolous lawsuits. So let's get back to managing these

807
00:56:18,520 --> 00:56:23,520
Speaker 3: animals in a humane factor, in a humane way where

808
00:56:23,600 --> 00:56:28,160
Speaker 3: we're not going in there and disrupting through gathers. You know, look,

809
00:56:28,239 --> 00:56:31,839
Speaker 3: you guys got hunting seasons. I'm you know, I go out,

810
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:34,080
Speaker 3: I do a lot of scouting with good friends of mine.

811
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:39,160
Speaker 3: I'd prefer while meat over store bought meat. So I'm

812
00:56:39,160 --> 00:56:42,080
Speaker 3: definitely not you know, I'm one hundred percent for the

813
00:56:42,200 --> 00:56:46,760
Speaker 3: conservation of hunting. But there's hunting seasons, and there's stipulations

814
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:48,680
Speaker 3: to that, and there's only a number of tags that

815
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:55,040
Speaker 3: go out, so you know, they're managed. Horses are not

816
00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:59,800
Speaker 3: managed when you've got them overpopulated at these rates, and

817
00:56:59,840 --> 00:57:04,040
Speaker 3: it's going to be an updown seesaw if we can

818
00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:07,759
Speaker 3: get them back to appropriate management levels. Congress stands their

819
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:12,719
Speaker 3: ground on management styles. As technology comes up, we do

820
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:17,480
Speaker 3: better and better and continue to update that. Then everybody's

821
00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:20,400
Speaker 3: going to be happy, but there's got to be a compromise.

822
00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:24,800
Speaker 3: And us folks that are now feeling the effects, whether

823
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:28,200
Speaker 3: you're a hunter, a recreationist, a farmer or ranch or

824
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:31,840
Speaker 3: anything else, are now truly feeling the effects of this

825
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:38,480
Speaker 3: overpopulation and balancing out who's talking to Congress And by

826
00:57:38,520 --> 00:57:41,200
Speaker 3: the way, we're we're out numbering it. When you look

827
00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:45,240
Speaker 3: at an economic side, are going in saying time out.

828
00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:48,800
Speaker 3: Why am I spending ten thousand dollars to go on

829
00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:51,800
Speaker 3: a hunt in Nevada When I get out to what

830
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:54,520
Speaker 3: used to be the best tunting area and all I'm

831
00:57:54,520 --> 00:57:59,640
Speaker 3: seeing is horses? You know? And why are conservation groups

832
00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:04,240
Speaker 3: that all are part of your podcast watch this, Why

833
00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:09,080
Speaker 3: are they spending two million dollars to recede after a

834
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:12,840
Speaker 3: wildfire goes through when your populations are three and four

835
00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:16,200
Speaker 3: times over of wild horses that seed's never going to

836
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:18,000
Speaker 3: take into the ground.

837
00:58:18,680 --> 00:58:20,240
Speaker 2: You know, that's that's ridiculous.

838
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:23,560
Speaker 3: It's kind of like a tenant, you know, that is

839
00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:28,320
Speaker 3: infested with rats. You know, think of the pythons, Think

840
00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:32,280
Speaker 3: of the wild pigs, think of rats in the cities.

841
00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:36,560
Speaker 3: Nobody has an issue with managing those to death. You know,

842
00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:40,560
Speaker 3: exactly that. But this is the one animal. And I

843
00:58:40,680 --> 00:58:44,840
Speaker 3: get why seeing them out on the range in a

844
00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:47,760
Speaker 3: normal group of horses, which is a band is seven

845
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:52,560
Speaker 3: to ten, is great. But when you see hundreds and

846
00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:57,240
Speaker 3: hundreds of horses together in the same area, basically on

847
00:58:57,280 --> 00:59:01,040
Speaker 3: a dirt lot, that's criminal. Those horses were in my

848
00:59:01,160 --> 00:59:05,200
Speaker 3: backyard the way that their body conditions are, I'd have

849
00:59:05,240 --> 00:59:09,880
Speaker 3: a federal offense against me, So let's talk.

850
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:16,760
Speaker 1: That's what It's so hard when you know there's so

851
00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:21,400
Speaker 1: many animal rescues out there that are constantly dealing with

852
00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:27,760
Speaker 1: private animals that have never been wild, that have just

853
00:59:27,800 --> 00:59:35,880
Speaker 1: been stuck out and basically abandoned on private property, and

854
00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:40,720
Speaker 1: the ability for the most well meaning people to try

855
00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:47,000
Speaker 1: to adopt those animals and get them back into horses

856
00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:50,080
Speaker 1: are weird, you know, Like once they go on that

857
00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:55,120
Speaker 1: down slope, it's so hard to bring them back into

858
00:59:56,800 --> 01:00:01,280
Speaker 1: there are functional weight and and health. We had a

859
01:00:01,400 --> 01:00:09,720
Speaker 1: great uh Peruvian Pacifino, Sheila. She was awesome, ye, but

860
01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:19,840
Speaker 1: she was a fancy show horse and during the eight crash,

861
01:00:20,400 --> 01:00:24,920
Speaker 1: she you know, she was like super fancy indoor lady

862
01:00:24,960 --> 01:00:27,840
Speaker 1: won a bunch of saddles with her and stuff and

863
01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:30,520
Speaker 1: and then just ignored her once she couldn't pay the

864
01:00:30,520 --> 01:00:32,720
Speaker 1: rest of her bills, and and we ended up with her,

865
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:41,200
Speaker 1: and and we could get her just fat enough to

866
01:00:41,240 --> 01:00:45,480
Speaker 1: put a little little tack on, but any amount of

867
01:00:45,640 --> 01:00:49,080
Speaker 1: work she would just turn into skin and bones, you know,

868
01:00:49,120 --> 01:00:56,760
Speaker 1: and wonderful, wonderful horse. And I feel like a lot

869
01:00:56,800 --> 01:01:02,880
Speaker 1: of rescue animals really understood her second second shot at life.

870
01:01:02,920 --> 01:01:07,400
Speaker 3: You know, well, they're they're not humans, and you're hitting

871
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:08,400
Speaker 3: a good point here.

872
01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:12,400
Speaker 2: They're I can tell you a million stories. We don't

873
01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:13,240
Speaker 2: have time for that.

874
01:01:13,200 --> 01:01:16,360
Speaker 3: But but what is the most humane thing to do

875
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:20,280
Speaker 3: to an animal that doesn't understand They're not going to

876
01:01:20,320 --> 01:01:22,360
Speaker 3: walk up to you and go, oh God, my stomach kurts.

877
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:24,800
Speaker 3: You know, well, let's do you know, let's let's do

878
01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:27,960
Speaker 3: an MRI and see how your lover's doing. Those organs

879
01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:32,040
Speaker 3: are already deficient when they're getting in those body class conditions,

880
01:01:32,080 --> 01:01:35,960
Speaker 3: what we call one to three's organs are already stopping,

881
01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:39,600
Speaker 3: stopping to function. To ever get them in that healthy

882
01:01:39,640 --> 01:01:43,240
Speaker 3: state is likely not going to happen. So what you're

883
01:01:43,240 --> 01:01:45,920
Speaker 3: gonna try to do what you can, because look, we

884
01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:49,040
Speaker 3: all have big hearts. Everybody wants to be able to

885
01:01:49,080 --> 01:01:53,720
Speaker 3: save every animal out there, and and it is emotional, right,

886
01:01:54,320 --> 01:01:58,479
Speaker 3: but the truth is, what is the most humane thing

887
01:01:58,640 --> 01:02:01,919
Speaker 3: to do to an animal and that condition, And in

888
01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:04,880
Speaker 3: some cases it is to euthanize them. I mean, when

889
01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:07,920
Speaker 3: I'm talking about horses and pastors that are thirty two

890
01:02:07,960 --> 01:02:13,240
Speaker 3: years old, their Congress basically said you can't euthanize a

891
01:02:13,280 --> 01:02:17,200
Speaker 3: horse that's still walking around. Even though the law says old,

892
01:02:17,240 --> 01:02:20,000
Speaker 3: sick and lame, there's no true definition of what's old,

893
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:24,160
Speaker 3: sick and lane. That's every person's thing. There needs to

894
01:02:24,200 --> 01:02:27,840
Speaker 3: be policy on that clearly defining that because when those

895
01:02:27,880 --> 01:02:31,320
Speaker 3: horses are typically at the age of over twenty five

896
01:02:31,360 --> 01:02:34,520
Speaker 3: to thirty, they start losing their teeth, the inability to eat.

897
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:36,040
Speaker 2: It takes almost a.

898
01:02:36,120 --> 01:02:40,840
Speaker 3: Year for a horse to starve to death and drop

899
01:02:40,880 --> 01:02:45,120
Speaker 3: to the ground. They typically drop near water source, will

900
01:02:45,160 --> 01:02:48,840
Speaker 3: drink that water until they literally die, and that could

901
01:02:48,840 --> 01:02:53,480
Speaker 3: take weeks too. So if you're talking about humane treatment

902
01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:58,160
Speaker 3: to animals, that is not humane. And look, that's that's

903
01:02:58,200 --> 01:03:03,680
Speaker 3: a whole nother big subject after this. That again, Congress

904
01:03:04,080 --> 01:03:08,240
Speaker 3: with that rider is not allowing the Bureau of Land

905
01:03:08,240 --> 01:03:13,120
Speaker 3: Management or has made it afraid because when we do gathers,

906
01:03:13,480 --> 01:03:16,960
Speaker 3: these activists are out there. They're very transparent about what's

907
01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:20,360
Speaker 3: going on together. And when a horse dies during a gather,

908
01:03:21,200 --> 01:03:25,200
Speaker 3: they're either it had to do with the gather. Horse

909
01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:28,960
Speaker 3: hits a fence, breaks it neck, its neck, it steps

910
01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:31,520
Speaker 3: in a gopher hole, breaks a leg, whatever the case

911
01:03:31,600 --> 01:03:34,880
Speaker 3: might be. Things are going to happen with wild animals.

912
01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:39,920
Speaker 3: Let me tell you that's less than two percent horses

913
01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:45,880
Speaker 3: die during the operations, okay, which if you know wildlife,

914
01:03:46,160 --> 01:03:52,400
Speaker 3: I mean, that's a pretty astronomical, really good percentage. At

915
01:03:52,400 --> 01:03:57,400
Speaker 3: the same cases, there are horses that we do put

916
01:03:57,440 --> 01:04:02,680
Speaker 3: down BLM or a service with a vet puts down

917
01:04:02,920 --> 01:04:06,200
Speaker 3: as an act of mercy to that animal. I've seen

918
01:04:06,240 --> 01:04:09,880
Speaker 3: horses come in after fires that ninety five percent of

919
01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:13,360
Speaker 3: their bodies were burned. You want to rehab that, you

920
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:15,880
Speaker 3: want to continue to allow that animal to go through

921
01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:21,040
Speaker 3: that kind I've seen horses where there's foals trying to

922
01:04:21,080 --> 01:04:23,880
Speaker 3: milk off of a mare and you can count every

923
01:04:23,920 --> 01:04:28,200
Speaker 3: single rib, their hip bones, their wither bones, everything. That

924
01:04:28,320 --> 01:04:32,400
Speaker 3: horse should have been put down months before the suffering

925
01:04:33,040 --> 01:04:36,960
Speaker 3: that allows horses coming in with three legs. I've seen

926
01:04:37,080 --> 01:04:40,680
Speaker 3: coyotes eat in the back end of a horse as

927
01:04:40,720 --> 01:04:43,840
Speaker 3: I'm driving up and the horse raises its head. Mother

928
01:04:43,960 --> 01:04:48,880
Speaker 3: nature is not kind, and it's about time that this

929
01:04:49,680 --> 01:04:57,680
Speaker 3: particular thing is stopped being driven by emotion, because the

930
01:04:57,720 --> 01:05:03,800
Speaker 3: only animal that's suffering suffering is the horses themselves. And

931
01:05:03,800 --> 01:05:06,600
Speaker 3: then the other animals such as elk and antelope and

932
01:05:06,640 --> 01:05:09,360
Speaker 3: everything else that try to get to water holes and

933
01:05:09,440 --> 01:05:13,200
Speaker 3: aren't allowed if there's horses around, are too suffering. That

934
01:05:13,320 --> 01:05:17,480
Speaker 3: mule deer population in Nevada we had over one hundred

935
01:05:17,480 --> 01:05:20,360
Speaker 3: and sixty thousand ten years ago. We're down to less

936
01:05:20,360 --> 01:05:26,000
Speaker 3: than sixty thousand. So that is a domino effect. And

937
01:05:26,080 --> 01:05:29,360
Speaker 3: at the end of the day, the United States, you know,

938
01:05:29,680 --> 01:05:32,240
Speaker 3: has determined that the majority of people in the United

939
01:05:32,240 --> 01:05:36,040
Speaker 3: States don't eat horse meat. That's fine, We've got that

940
01:05:36,120 --> 01:05:39,560
Speaker 3: ability to take that option. But guess what, in India,

941
01:05:39,600 --> 01:05:43,560
Speaker 3: they don't eat cows. We sure like them. So there

942
01:05:43,560 --> 01:05:50,280
Speaker 3: are many many countries that would give anything to have

943
01:05:50,440 --> 01:05:55,360
Speaker 3: that source of protein to feed their starving people. And

944
01:05:55,440 --> 01:05:59,760
Speaker 3: so there is you know, options of humanitarian effect up

945
01:05:59,760 --> 01:06:02,920
Speaker 3: in the future to discuss should we want to go

946
01:06:03,040 --> 01:06:05,400
Speaker 3: down that path. And there are folks here in the

947
01:06:05,480 --> 01:06:12,960
Speaker 3: United States that would utilize that meat. Karakastan, they literally

948
01:06:13,040 --> 01:06:17,440
Speaker 3: survive off of horse meat. It's higher in protein, lower

949
01:06:17,480 --> 01:06:20,760
Speaker 3: in fats. I mean those sort of things in their mind.

950
01:06:21,040 --> 01:06:25,120
Speaker 3: They're not the typical United States person. I'm not advocating

951
01:06:25,640 --> 01:06:28,720
Speaker 3: to eat horse meat, but they're the only animal out

952
01:06:28,720 --> 01:06:33,040
Speaker 3: there that truthfully doesn't have a resource value. We are

953
01:06:33,200 --> 01:06:38,680
Speaker 3: importing horse meat to feed zoo animals and sanctuaries. We're

954
01:06:38,720 --> 01:06:39,720
Speaker 3: importing them pay.

955
01:06:39,920 --> 01:06:44,120
Speaker 1: We need to get those people at the Place to

956
01:06:44,120 --> 01:06:47,920
Speaker 1: See park to make us some saber toothcats so they

957
01:06:47,960 --> 01:06:53,400
Speaker 1: can go back to wandering and predating on their Place

958
01:06:53,440 --> 01:06:54,280
Speaker 1: to See horses.

959
01:06:55,960 --> 01:06:57,360
Speaker 2: It's an emotional effect.

960
01:06:57,480 --> 01:07:00,840
Speaker 3: We've given them fifty four years to run, you know,

961
01:07:00,920 --> 01:07:06,120
Speaker 3: a law based on emotion, and basically the one hundred

962
01:07:06,120 --> 01:07:08,920
Speaker 3: and twenty to twenty people that sign this letter that

963
01:07:09,080 --> 01:07:12,160
Speaker 3: is in the hands of Congress, amongst everybody else.

964
01:07:13,200 --> 01:07:16,360
Speaker 2: We're saying groups. So think about how many.

965
01:07:16,200 --> 01:07:20,120
Speaker 3: Members those conservation wildlife groups have and now we're talking

966
01:07:20,120 --> 01:07:24,360
Speaker 3: about millions and millions of people across the United States.

967
01:07:25,600 --> 01:07:29,200
Speaker 3: I'd say close to a billion, not the one hundred

968
01:07:29,240 --> 01:07:33,280
Speaker 3: million or whatever the activists claim that are saying it's

969
01:07:33,400 --> 01:07:36,680
Speaker 3: time for us to follow the Act as it's written.

970
01:07:36,720 --> 01:07:38,720
Speaker 3: It's the easiest thing for a legislator to do. You

971
01:07:38,760 --> 01:07:39,959
Speaker 3: don't have to do anything well.

972
01:07:40,280 --> 01:07:44,280
Speaker 1: As you pointed out, the best thing for everything is

973
01:07:45,000 --> 01:07:48,880
Speaker 1: the ecology of the range, and we've got a lot

974
01:07:48,920 --> 01:07:52,600
Speaker 1: of work to do all over the place to get

975
01:07:52,600 --> 01:07:54,320
Speaker 1: that stuff back to healthy. It's got a lot of

976
01:07:54,360 --> 01:08:00,920
Speaker 1: threats outside of absolutely grazing, right like noxious weeds, invasive

977
01:08:01,080 --> 01:08:08,600
Speaker 1: plant species. And if that goes away, then we won't

978
01:08:08,640 --> 01:08:11,400
Speaker 1: be talking about this anymore because there's not gonna be

979
01:08:11,400 --> 01:08:11,920
Speaker 1: any place for.

980
01:08:11,960 --> 01:08:14,360
Speaker 3: Him to go so and it's not going to happen overnight.

981
01:08:14,640 --> 01:08:17,920
Speaker 3: And I think that's the human nature. We want to

982
01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:20,360
Speaker 3: see results immediately, and that's why they put up the

983
01:08:20,360 --> 01:08:22,120
Speaker 3: pretty pictures of horses.

984
01:08:22,320 --> 01:08:26,679
Speaker 1: But to talk about immediate things that we can do. Though,

985
01:08:26,720 --> 01:08:31,879
Speaker 1: it sounds like there's an appropriation to ask as well

986
01:08:32,040 --> 01:08:39,920
Speaker 1: as an ask to remove this writer from the bill. Correct.

987
01:08:40,280 --> 01:08:42,840
Speaker 3: I'm going to tell you right now, because there is

988
01:08:42,920 --> 01:08:48,360
Speaker 3: back and forth in conversations. The Department of Interior already

989
01:08:49,720 --> 01:08:53,040
Speaker 3: requested in their budget request, that's the way policy works,

990
01:08:53,600 --> 01:08:54,760
Speaker 3: to remove that act.

991
01:08:55,080 --> 01:08:55,439
Speaker 2: Okay.

992
01:08:55,760 --> 01:08:58,839
Speaker 3: Then it went to the President, Office of Management and Budget.

993
01:08:59,320 --> 01:09:03,400
Speaker 3: Presidents of US he put forth his request, we're just

994
01:09:03,439 --> 01:09:09,120
Speaker 3: talking one program to Congress. Congress now had these groups

995
01:09:09,160 --> 01:09:13,439
Speaker 3: coming at them, God knows how much money they've spent lobbying, etc.

996
01:09:13,920 --> 01:09:18,040
Speaker 3: Those sort of things, and so that Congressional House Congressional

997
01:09:18,080 --> 01:09:21,520
Speaker 3: Committee and the House Congression or the Senate Congressional Committee

998
01:09:22,240 --> 01:09:26,600
Speaker 3: put back in there that they want at least the

999
01:09:26,640 --> 01:09:29,160
Speaker 3: same amount of money as this year. Because the President

1000
01:09:29,160 --> 01:09:32,880
Speaker 3: also came back with the lower appropriations, which if we

1001
01:09:33,000 --> 01:09:37,360
Speaker 3: followed the Act, we still got plenty of money. Okay,

1002
01:09:38,720 --> 01:09:42,120
Speaker 3: because we see that in this first year. If that

1003
01:09:42,160 --> 01:09:47,719
Speaker 3: appropriations were to be voted in on October first, which

1004
01:09:47,880 --> 01:09:53,519
Speaker 3: hasn't happened since the Bush administration, and so likely we'll

1005
01:09:53,520 --> 01:09:57,160
Speaker 3: be under what we call continuing resolution, which means last

1006
01:09:57,240 --> 01:10:00,960
Speaker 3: year's budget basically goes forward, which which means writers are

1007
01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:04,000
Speaker 3: still in there. There's not much we can do about that,

1008
01:10:04,080 --> 01:10:10,120
Speaker 3: though that's actually being researched right now, and likely there

1009
01:10:10,320 --> 01:10:14,599
Speaker 3: is a way to for Congress to say, Okay, we're

1010
01:10:14,640 --> 01:10:17,800
Speaker 3: on a continuing resolution, but we're going to drop the writer.

1011
01:10:18,439 --> 01:10:22,439
Speaker 3: So that would be the biggest hope of it. But

1012
01:10:23,120 --> 01:10:25,240
Speaker 3: I'm going to be truthful with you. If the Act

1013
01:10:25,400 --> 01:10:30,640
Speaker 3: was followed as written, say, all those activists or advocacy

1014
01:10:30,680 --> 01:10:33,760
Speaker 3: groups came in five oh one c threes came in,

1015
01:10:34,280 --> 01:10:38,519
Speaker 3: took those thirty six thousand horses over the age of ten,

1016
01:10:38,640 --> 01:10:40,680
Speaker 3: and found homes for them, whether it being in a

1017
01:10:40,760 --> 01:10:46,840
Speaker 3: sanctuary or adopters. You know, they transferred them to those

1018
01:10:46,880 --> 01:10:51,280
Speaker 3: sort of things. Then at that point, we would say

1019
01:10:51,439 --> 01:10:55,200
Speaker 3: the taxpayers anywhere from thirty five to forty million dollars

1020
01:10:56,120 --> 01:11:00,160
Speaker 3: in that one year, which by the way, takes away

1021
01:11:00,200 --> 01:11:05,960
Speaker 3: from the budget. And you're also not feeding those thirty

1022
01:11:06,040 --> 01:11:09,639
Speaker 3: six thousand horses at two dollars and seventy five cents

1023
01:11:09,640 --> 01:11:12,600
Speaker 3: a day, okay.

1024
01:11:12,560 --> 01:11:16,000
Speaker 1: And twenty pounds of forage and five to fifteen gallons

1025
01:11:16,000 --> 01:11:16,360
Speaker 1: of water.

1026
01:11:17,200 --> 01:11:21,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, so doing that simple math is very easy. The

1027
01:11:21,479 --> 01:11:26,559
Speaker 3: president actually, you know, his money people behind that were

1028
01:11:26,720 --> 01:11:31,360
Speaker 3: very generous with his request to Congress, and that group

1029
01:11:31,479 --> 01:11:35,200
Speaker 3: of what is it, five to seven, seven to twelve

1030
01:11:35,280 --> 01:11:39,599
Speaker 3: committee members you know, put right back in the act. Well,

1031
01:11:39,600 --> 01:11:42,599
Speaker 3: that made it easy for these activist groups to come

1032
01:11:42,600 --> 01:11:46,000
Speaker 3: in there and say, hey, you know, fertility control, these

1033
01:11:46,000 --> 01:11:48,360
Speaker 3: are people on the East coast, you know.

1034
01:11:48,920 --> 01:11:53,240
Speaker 1: Well, I think the new new thing is you say, hey,

1035
01:11:53,320 --> 01:11:56,120
Speaker 1: these animals are consuming five to fifteen gallons of water

1036
01:11:56,200 --> 01:12:00,599
Speaker 1: per day. Don't we need that for artificial intelligences?

1037
01:12:01,000 --> 01:12:04,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, and that's what we really are talking about.

1038
01:12:04,200 --> 01:12:06,400
Speaker 3: You know, when we're going in and talking to legislators,

1039
01:12:06,439 --> 01:12:09,200
Speaker 3: it's very different than than what we're talking about on

1040
01:12:09,240 --> 01:12:13,160
Speaker 3: the podcast. We're why are we talking about one animal?

1041
01:12:13,960 --> 01:12:18,519
Speaker 3: What comes first? The ecosystem? That is our call to action.

1042
01:12:19,320 --> 01:12:22,519
Speaker 3: We want to protect our ecosystem. We want to say

1043
01:12:22,560 --> 01:12:27,479
Speaker 3: that ecosystem because if you know, all the forage is

1044
01:12:27,520 --> 01:12:31,240
Speaker 3: gone and all the springs are stomped to mud holes, which,

1045
01:12:31,280 --> 01:12:34,280
Speaker 3: by the way, they're doing an emergency gather right now

1046
01:12:35,000 --> 01:12:40,639
Speaker 3: in Wells, Nevada, And I've got pictures of horses stuck

1047
01:12:40,680 --> 01:12:43,280
Speaker 3: in those mud holes trying to get a drink of water.

1048
01:12:44,280 --> 01:12:44,519
Speaker 2: Right.

1049
01:12:44,840 --> 01:12:48,160
Speaker 3: Well, that was also for wildlife and even bees and

1050
01:12:48,240 --> 01:12:51,719
Speaker 3: honeys and birds and everything else. It's destroyed, it's gone,

1051
01:12:52,360 --> 01:12:56,120
Speaker 3: it's not coming back. It has to be rehabilitated to

1052
01:12:56,240 --> 01:12:57,840
Speaker 3: come back. Well, why are you going to do that

1053
01:12:58,320 --> 01:13:03,640
Speaker 3: if you've got you know, horses on that and understand waterflow?

1054
01:13:04,040 --> 01:13:06,960
Speaker 3: Some of those springs could produce five to seven gallons

1055
01:13:07,000 --> 01:13:11,360
Speaker 3: an hour, others, you know, twenty to thirty gallons. So

1056
01:13:11,439 --> 01:13:15,240
Speaker 3: there's a lot of scientific information that goes into that.

1057
01:13:15,960 --> 01:13:19,000
Speaker 3: And when you look across the deserts and you go, oh,

1058
01:13:19,120 --> 01:13:22,840
Speaker 3: that looks like great, there's green everywhere. Well, half of

1059
01:13:22,840 --> 01:13:28,240
Speaker 3: that's halijeaten, half of that's poisonous, noxious weeds that horses

1060
01:13:28,280 --> 01:13:31,880
Speaker 3: can eat. The burrows can eat some of it down

1061
01:13:31,920 --> 01:13:36,639
Speaker 3: in the lower deserts. Their livers are built differently. I mean,

1062
01:13:36,680 --> 01:13:41,160
Speaker 3: there's so much scientific information that it's not that simple.

1063
01:13:41,880 --> 01:13:47,880
Speaker 3: So all of this social media misinformation being spreaded out

1064
01:13:47,880 --> 01:13:51,439
Speaker 3: there to people that are sitting in cities, they just

1065
01:13:51,520 --> 01:13:53,640
Speaker 3: need to learn how to educate themselves.

1066
01:13:54,000 --> 01:13:55,920
Speaker 1: Well, where where would you point them?

1067
01:13:56,000 --> 01:14:03,280
Speaker 3: Jenny Gosh, we are now put together the just in Nevada.

1068
01:14:03,320 --> 01:14:10,040
Speaker 3: There's the Coalition of Healthy Nevada Lands. That website has

1069
01:14:10,160 --> 01:14:14,759
Speaker 3: many many scientific papers, white papers, those sort of things

1070
01:14:14,800 --> 01:14:22,080
Speaker 3: on it. If you just google scientific research, Comma, wildhorses

1071
01:14:22,080 --> 01:14:26,360
Speaker 3: and burroughs, you're gonna get everything from fertility control to

1072
01:14:26,760 --> 01:14:30,280
Speaker 3: range land management, you know those sort of things. The

1073
01:14:30,400 --> 01:14:36,880
Speaker 3: BLM BLM dot gov website, if you type in BLM

1074
01:14:37,080 --> 01:14:40,800
Speaker 3: COMMA research, it's going to bring you to their research

1075
01:14:40,920 --> 01:14:50,880
Speaker 3: page and it will have hundreds of scientific professor directed information.

1076
01:14:51,640 --> 01:14:52,840
Speaker 2: That is going to.

1077
01:14:52,960 --> 01:14:57,759
Speaker 3: Very easily if you're if you're getting your information from

1078
01:14:57,800 --> 01:15:00,519
Speaker 3: an advocacy group that the first thing you on the

1079
01:15:00,560 --> 01:15:04,240
Speaker 3: site is pushed donate. Now you're not getting real information

1080
01:15:05,040 --> 01:15:06,640
Speaker 3: and you're not getting educated.

1081
01:15:07,120 --> 01:15:08,439
Speaker 2: That is all about the money.

1082
01:15:08,439 --> 01:15:10,400
Speaker 3: And by the way, none of that goes back to

1083
01:15:10,479 --> 01:15:14,160
Speaker 3: the rangelands or the horses themselves. What it goes back

1084
01:15:14,160 --> 01:15:18,960
Speaker 3: to is paying people to take pictures. And for instance, ASPCA,

1085
01:15:19,560 --> 01:15:22,280
Speaker 3: their CEO makes over million dollars, almost one point two

1086
01:15:22,280 --> 01:15:26,360
Speaker 3: million dollars a year. Go look at those taxpayers, they're public,

1087
01:15:26,880 --> 01:15:30,480
Speaker 3: Go see what they're spending their money on. It's frivolous lawsuits.

1088
01:15:30,520 --> 01:15:33,120
Speaker 3: There's not a single lawsuit that they've won a big

1089
01:15:33,200 --> 01:15:37,120
Speaker 3: case on, you know, minimal pieces here and there. Ol

1090
01:15:37,320 --> 01:15:40,200
Speaker 3: BLM's got to go back and redo their environmental assessments.

1091
01:15:40,800 --> 01:15:47,200
Speaker 3: So you are paying people sitting in Los Angeles with

1092
01:15:47,320 --> 01:15:53,000
Speaker 3: one case, their CEO ten years ago was making one

1093
01:15:53,080 --> 01:15:54,080
Speaker 3: hundred and eighty.

1094
01:15:53,880 --> 01:15:57,320
Speaker 2: Thousand dollars a year. That money is not going back

1095
01:15:57,400 --> 01:15:58,280
Speaker 2: to those horses.

1096
01:15:58,800 --> 01:16:01,920
Speaker 3: Start putting those money in to true conservation groups, not

1097
01:16:02,080 --> 01:16:06,640
Speaker 3: just because they have conservation in their title. True conservation

1098
01:16:06,800 --> 01:16:10,960
Speaker 3: groups that are going out there building guzzlers for wildlife

1099
01:16:10,960 --> 01:16:15,879
Speaker 3: and wild horses in those sorts. You know, conservation groups,

1100
01:16:15,920 --> 01:16:18,960
Speaker 3: you know, whether it's Rocky Mountain Olk Foundation or the

1101
01:16:19,000 --> 01:16:23,960
Speaker 3: North Antelope Pronghorn Association or you know backcountry horse.

1102
01:16:23,920 --> 01:16:27,120
Speaker 1: Uh hunters, anglers, anglers.

1103
01:16:27,200 --> 01:16:31,679
Speaker 3: I mean, you guys, the amount of money that you've

1104
01:16:31,720 --> 01:16:35,040
Speaker 3: put back out on that ecosystem, out on the range

1105
01:16:35,120 --> 01:16:36,440
Speaker 3: lands and water sources.

1106
01:16:37,640 --> 01:16:39,080
Speaker 2: I don't even know if you can.

1107
01:16:38,960 --> 01:16:40,599
Speaker 3: Tell me off the top of your head how many

1108
01:16:40,760 --> 01:16:44,240
Speaker 3: millions of dollars you've spent on that. You know, those

1109
01:16:44,280 --> 01:16:50,360
Speaker 3: are conservation groups, honting people. These hunting groups aren't about

1110
01:16:50,439 --> 01:16:54,240
Speaker 3: trophy hunting like everybody claims they are. They're about conservation

1111
01:16:54,320 --> 01:16:59,280
Speaker 3: of the lands. There's there's huge resource value in taking

1112
01:16:59,320 --> 01:17:03,240
Speaker 3: your family out to the Western range Lands and spending time,

1113
01:17:04,960 --> 01:17:07,280
Speaker 3: you know, and then great if you get the extra

1114
01:17:07,360 --> 01:17:09,600
Speaker 3: and you can go home and and have meet in

1115
01:17:09,640 --> 01:17:15,400
Speaker 3: your freezer for a year. That's conservation. So so go

1116
01:17:15,479 --> 01:17:16,679
Speaker 3: to those sites.

1117
01:17:17,200 --> 01:17:17,400
Speaker 2: You know.

1118
01:17:17,439 --> 01:17:20,480
Speaker 3: I'm sure you guys have a lot of current information

1119
01:17:20,560 --> 01:17:24,400
Speaker 3: on it, but BLM does have those research sites. Go

1120
01:17:24,600 --> 01:17:28,640
Speaker 3: to you know, University of Wyoming, those range Lands, University

1121
01:17:28,680 --> 01:17:31,720
Speaker 3: of Montana, those sites.

1122
01:17:32,040 --> 01:17:35,240
Speaker 1: And we'll we'll dig up some some resources and put

1123
01:17:35,240 --> 01:17:39,200
Speaker 1: them on the page as well. Thank you so much

1124
01:17:39,240 --> 01:17:43,560
Speaker 1: for talking to us, Jenny h and I got to

1125
01:17:43,600 --> 01:17:46,400
Speaker 1: run and U catch a playing so.

1126
01:17:46,439 --> 01:17:51,080
Speaker 3: I well, hopefully you're coming out west. No, I appreciate it,

1127
01:17:51,400 --> 01:17:53,920
Speaker 3: and and sorry for taking up so much time. I

1128
01:17:53,920 --> 01:17:56,120
Speaker 3: think we could go on for much longer.

1129
01:17:56,200 --> 01:17:56,400
Speaker 2: Oh.

1130
01:17:56,880 --> 01:17:59,080
Speaker 1: I still have a ton of questions, but what I

1131
01:17:59,160 --> 01:18:03,880
Speaker 1: typically say is we'll send in your questions as k

1132
01:18:04,080 --> 01:18:07,400
Speaker 1: c A. L askcal at the meeater dot com, and

1133
01:18:07,479 --> 01:18:10,400
Speaker 1: we'll either get Jenny back on here to answer them,

1134
01:18:10,560 --> 01:18:14,639
Speaker 1: or we'll reach out to her and answer them here

1135
01:18:14,680 --> 01:18:18,320
Speaker 1: on the next show. So thank you so much, thank.

1136
01:18:18,080 --> 01:18:20,400
Speaker 3: You, and thank you for having me on this. You know,

1137
01:18:20,439 --> 01:18:22,200
Speaker 3: it's great to talk to new audiences.

1138
01:18:23,200 --> 01:18:23,960
Speaker 1: Absolutely