Speaker 1: Welcome in Wins and Losses. I am Clay Travis, and
Speaker 1: we have a fantastic guest, a guy I have been
Speaker 1: a fan of. I'm gonna be straight up right at
Speaker 1: the top. Auburn men's basketball coach Bruce Pearl is with us,
Speaker 1: and coach you are down right now at the Final
Speaker 1: four in New Orleans, and you know these wins and
Speaker 1: lost his conversations. The hope is that people are going
Speaker 1: to enjoy them for a long time to come. But
Speaker 1: just kind of setting in context here, and so I'll
Speaker 1: start with this question. What does it feel like to
Speaker 1: go to the final four? What does it feel like
Speaker 1: to almost go to the final four? What is the
Speaker 1: experience like to coach in the n C Double A tournament?
Speaker 1: And how long does it take when you either win
Speaker 1: or lose in the n C Double A tournament to
Speaker 1: get over the experience? If that makes sense to kind
Speaker 1: of start with contextually. Hey, Clay, if this is the
Speaker 1: first question, right, we're gonna need more than an hour
Speaker 1: because and I think the wins and lost this thing.
Speaker 1: When you bring Bruce Pearl on the show, you get
Speaker 1: all that. You get the winnars and the losses, which
Speaker 1: I think it's really really good. Um. You it's it's
Speaker 1: completely different. First of all, the Final Four is the
Speaker 1: National Association of Basketball Coaches UM meetings. It's our annual meeting.
Speaker 1: So when you're not playing in the Final Four, you're
Speaker 1: basically hob nobbing with your fellow wizards, uh, catching up
Speaker 1: on how bad the officiating was, all your long rule changes, UH,
Speaker 1: you know, eating too much um and uh and and
Speaker 1: and and you know, kind of celebrating your seasons, having meetings,
Speaker 1: you know, looking at you know, uh, the different apparel
Speaker 1: and the different equipment and all the different things that
Speaker 1: out there, things that you would do at conventions. UM.
Speaker 1: If you're in it, UM, you're on a magical carpet ride,
Speaker 1: and you're wondering how in the world did a bum
Speaker 1: like me get to be on a stage like this
Speaker 1: and be playing for a national championship. And you you
Speaker 1: just stop and thank God and for the thanks for
Speaker 1: the blessing and and um, and you just hope that
Speaker 1: you are up to the task to help your team
Speaker 1: win a national championship. And then when you don't get here,
Speaker 1: but you almost got here and maybe should have could
Speaker 1: have gotten here, UM, you replay every play, every call
Speaker 1: every preparation. I should have done this, I could have
Speaker 1: done that. If we did this, we could possibly be
Speaker 1: still playing. But I think when you do that, that's
Speaker 1: how you get better. Um, because you know, I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna sit still. I'm gonna I'm gonna reload. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: rebuild and I'm going to grow as a coach because
Speaker 1: I want to I want to get back here and
Speaker 1: I want to win one. So I got so many
Speaker 1: things that I want to dive into, but I just
Speaker 1: want to start with your career. You mentioned how fortunate
Speaker 1: you feel to make it to a Final four, which
Speaker 1: you did with Auburn. You were close a lot of
Speaker 1: times with Tennessee. But when you were coaching at Southern
Speaker 1: Indiana and I think you started off at Stanford and
Speaker 1: then you were at Iowa and you're grinding and you're
Speaker 1: working as hard as you can. Um, sometimes you don't
Speaker 1: ever I'm curious, when you're at Southern Indiana and you're
Speaker 1: a coach and you win a national championship there, did
Speaker 1: you ever think were there times where you thought, man,
Speaker 1: I'm never going to get that big job. Because the
Speaker 1: reasonly we talk wins and losses and why I love
Speaker 1: the concept of this discussion. Coaches. There's so much focus
Speaker 1: and you know this on success. You have success, people
Speaker 1: want to hear about how amazing it is, what does
Speaker 1: it feel like? But I feel like you oftentimes learn
Speaker 1: more from the losses along the way. And I've talked
Speaker 1: about things that have gone in my career that I
Speaker 1: didn't anticipate. I'm sure you have had, like you said,
Speaker 1: so many different ones. When you are coaching at Southern
Speaker 1: Indiana and you turn on the television and March Madness
Speaker 1: is on and you see a coach k or you
Speaker 1: see you Roy Williams, and you see guys who have
Speaker 1: been doing it for a long time. Did you feel
Speaker 1: I've told this story before, coach where I remember going
Speaker 1: to Triple A baseball uh and watching a game and
Speaker 1: this is probably fifteen years ago or so for me
Speaker 1: now maybe ten where I thought, Man, I'm in Triple
Speaker 1: A in my career. Right now, it seems so close
Speaker 1: to get to the major leagues. I can see a path,
Speaker 1: but I don't know if I'll ever get that opportunity.
Speaker 1: Do you ever have those thoughts along the way as
Speaker 1: you climbed yourself up towards a guy who could coach
Speaker 1: in the n C Double A Tournament. Yes and no. Um,
Speaker 1: here's this is what comes to my mind when you're
Speaker 1: asking that question. When you and when you were in
Speaker 1: Nashville and you were doing sports talk radio in the afternoon, Um,
Speaker 1: you were trying to be the absolute best show in
Speaker 1: that region, uh, for those three hours. And I don't
Speaker 1: think you were too terribly worried about anything other than
Speaker 1: being the best at what you were doing at that time.
Speaker 1: And one of the things me has helped make me
Speaker 1: successful every place I've been, I bought. I was all in.
Speaker 1: I wasn't leasing, I wasn't renting, I wasn't one foot
Speaker 1: in and one foot out looking for the next best thing.
Speaker 1: And I think so many times people in life, especially
Speaker 1: in their early stages, it's okay to think big, it's
Speaker 1: okay to dream, but take advantage of what you got,
Speaker 1: what's right there in front of you, and do an
Speaker 1: amazing job and put yourself in position for other opportunities
Speaker 1: to present itself. So. Um, the reason why I won
Speaker 1: championships every place I've been is I treated it like
Speaker 1: it was my last job and like I wanted to
Speaker 1: be at that place forever. And I truly did. And
Speaker 1: when I had to leave because it was time to
Speaker 1: leave Division two or go for mid major to Tennessee. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: I got the Ziggie at Tennessee, so that really wasn't
Speaker 1: my choice. It was hard to leave. It was hard
Speaker 1: to get in the car and pull out and leave
Speaker 1: my wife and my kids and my family to go
Speaker 1: to that next best thing because I was bought and
Speaker 1: I was all in. And I think so many people
Speaker 1: make the mistake of just not doing a great job
Speaker 1: with what they got and get guess what, as a result,
Speaker 1: they don't get to move on. They don't get to
Speaker 1: do what you've done, they don't get to do what
Speaker 1: I've done. Now, in answer to your crash, you directly,
Speaker 1: there was only one day a year, maybe two, when
Speaker 1: I ever thought about man. I remember when Tom Iso
Speaker 1: and I were assistance. He was at Michigan State and
Speaker 1: I was at Iowa, and Tom's head coach at Michigan State,
Speaker 1: and I'm the head coach at Southern Indiana and and
Speaker 1: and the only time was on selection of Sunday or
Speaker 1: the first round the answer that tournament. When I was
Speaker 1: in Division two, I'd watch that day and I'd say,
Speaker 1: you know what I want to I do want to
Speaker 1: get there. I want to get there and and then
Speaker 1: But with the acception of that day, that was the
Speaker 1: only day it ever occurred to me to try to
Speaker 1: be someplace else. When you were at Boston College, I
Speaker 1: think were even the mascot. I remember hearing that story.
Speaker 1: When did you decide, Hey, coaching basketball is something I
Speaker 1: might like to do. Uh? And when did you start
Speaker 1: to think, hey, this is going to be potentially a
Speaker 1: career I'll pursue. Well, it's a long story, but I'm
Speaker 1: trying to be brief. So I was a pretty good
Speaker 1: athlete in high school. Uh. I had a career ending
Speaker 1: knee injury in high school. Boston College was the best
Speaker 1: athletic program in New England. I grew up in Boston,
Speaker 1: and so I went to BC and walked on the
Speaker 1: basketball team and got cut, just got a bad wheel.
Speaker 1: But I met Dr Tom davis Um. When I was
Speaker 1: in high school, I was coaching fifth graders, I was umpiron,
Speaker 1: I was refereeing, I was always coaching. I was honestly,
Speaker 1: never did I think I would ever wasn't trying to
Speaker 1: be a coach. I went to BC school management marketing, economics,
Speaker 1: political science. I was gonna go out and get a
Speaker 1: real job my senior year after working for Tom Davis
Speaker 1: and every capacity possible, including as a manager, an assistant
Speaker 1: director of this or that. I hosted Patrick Ewing on
Speaker 1: his official visit as a as a as a member
Speaker 1: of the team. UM. Tom Davis called me and he
Speaker 1: said come over to the house. And I'm like, oh, Ship,
Speaker 1: what I do wrong? Last time I had to come
Speaker 1: over the house, I got caught streaking across campus and
Speaker 1: he found out about it and he saved me to
Speaker 1: the students and I'm like, well, I haven't straight across
Speaker 1: campus in years. And sure enough, I'm driving to his
Speaker 1: house and oh my god, he's leaving to take a
Speaker 1: job and he's gonna ask me to go with him.
Speaker 1: And sure enough, Clay, that's what he did. I was
Speaker 1: a senior BC in March, graduating in June, and I
Speaker 1: went to Stanford to Tom Davis as an assistant coach.
Speaker 1: And not one day that I worked for him because
Speaker 1: I wanted to be thought i'd be a basketball coach.
Speaker 1: Not at all. I just love BC. I love BC basketball.
Speaker 1: I loved what I was doing and and little did
Speaker 1: I know that my entire life. I've been coaching when
Speaker 1: I was playing, I was coaching when I was when
Speaker 1: I was playing, I was coaching little kids. So just
Speaker 1: something I always do, I always had done. That was
Speaker 1: God's plan. I just didn't know it to the day
Speaker 1: to the day I walked in his house and the
Speaker 1: next day he and I were on plane to Stanford.
Speaker 1: All right, that's an amazing story, But I gotta go back.
Speaker 1: What were you streaking across campus four? Did you lose
Speaker 1: a bet? Was it part of it? How did that happen?
Speaker 1: That's that was back in the day. That's what we did.
Speaker 1: That's just what we did. We got naked. We ran
Speaker 1: across like I did it three times, once school cafeteria,
Speaker 1: middle school, once uh the prom and then and then
Speaker 1: and then once at at BC. We actually we actually
Speaker 1: got in the car, uh and we went to the BC,
Speaker 1: went to we had there was a football game at
Speaker 1: Holy Cross out in Worcester, and UH me and a
Speaker 1: bunch of our buddies we got in the car with
Speaker 1: a lot to drink and uh locked our clothes in
Speaker 1: the trunk and drove to West naked and and just
Speaker 1: you know, just like who had the balls to actually
Speaker 1: get out of the car. You know, who was going
Speaker 1: to give him the key? You know? And and and
Speaker 1: and I don't remember a lot about that trip other
Speaker 1: than thank god we didn't get arrested. In my parents
Speaker 1: never found out about it. You know what's funny, as
Speaker 1: I'll confess to this too. Uh Uh. When I was
Speaker 1: in college, I had a bet with one of my
Speaker 1: buddies who was a Baltimore Ravens fan. Um and uh
Speaker 1: and I was a Tennessee Titan fan growing up in Nashville.
Speaker 1: And uh we bet whoever was gonna win a playoff game.
Speaker 1: Titans had a playoff game against the Baltimore Ravens. They lost,
Speaker 1: of course, because they always lose every playoff game. It
Speaker 1: feels like that matters just about and uh, I had
Speaker 1: to do a streak around. I went to George Washington
Speaker 1: in d C. So I had to streak around d C.
Speaker 1: And what it was funny about that, Um, First off,
Speaker 1: I didn't get arrested, but I think it would have
Speaker 1: been a federal offense because you're you're in the District
Speaker 1: of Columbia and uh and coach I remember um and
Speaker 1: our freshman year dorm. Uh. The Secret Service raided the
Speaker 1: dorm because a kid was making fake I d s.
Speaker 1: And it was a federal offense because you're in the
Speaker 1: district of Columbia, right, so you know a lot of
Speaker 1: kids know about you know, you're seventeen, eighteen years old whatever.
Speaker 1: In a college campus, you want to be able to
Speaker 1: get buy a beer, go into a bar, and so
Speaker 1: fake I d are common. And this kid, uh in
Speaker 1: the in down the hall one of the freshman dorms. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they the Secret Service raided his dorm because he was
Speaker 1: making these fake I d s. But so you go,
Speaker 1: it was that the w Admission's office is promoting very
Speaker 1: much coming wa get a federal offense. Yeah, no kidding. Uh,
Speaker 1: by the way, so was the culture. So for me,
Speaker 1: I grew up in Nashville, and there was a big
Speaker 1: culture shock for me going to GW because it was
Speaker 1: a very Northeastern school and I grew up in the
Speaker 1: South and it was more brusque. I think it was
Speaker 1: great for me because people were tougher, harder edge, thicker skin.
Speaker 1: It was good for me at eighteen or nineteen years
Speaker 1: old to get used to that in a way maybe
Speaker 1: that it wouldn't have for my career. Was it a
Speaker 1: culture shock for you to go from Boston to Stanford,
Speaker 1: like to take that job, or because Palo Alto is amazing.
Speaker 1: But I have to think that Boston and Palo Alto
Speaker 1: were not that similar, at least for you as a
Speaker 1: kid growing up in the in the Northeast. Now it
Speaker 1: was very different. Uh you know, growing up in Boston. Um,
Speaker 1: he was born in nineteen sixty. Um. I lived through
Speaker 1: the era of force bussing. Um saw it, saw real racism,
Speaker 1: saw real racial tension, real white on black fights. Uh,
Speaker 1: tremendous anti semitism. Um, that stuff all mattered. Um. And
Speaker 1: while there was some amazingly wonderful ethnic neighborhoods in Boston,
Speaker 1: the Italian North End, the Irish South Boston, the Jewish
Speaker 1: quarter of Mattapan, Dorchester, Blue Hill Avenue, Um, there was
Speaker 1: a lot of uh, a lot of identity. Um that
Speaker 1: that wound up creating a lot of conflict. And as
Speaker 1: a coach and team builder, UM it bothered me to
Speaker 1: my core. Um the and when we play sports and
Speaker 1: we go to playground, it's shirts and skins. I don't
Speaker 1: give a rats ask what color you are? Can you rebound?
Speaker 1: Can you make a shot? UM, I don't care a
Speaker 1: you got a temple or church or if you don't,
Speaker 1: you know, can you guard somebody? And and and we
Speaker 1: play as kids and and and we're not we're not
Speaker 1: identifying each other that way. And but our parents and
Speaker 1: our grandparents maybe are or were and and so I
Speaker 1: was so glad I grew up in Boston to see
Speaker 1: the greatness of the ethnicity, but the damage that it
Speaker 1: could do as it relates to the relationships. Then the
Speaker 1: second thing answered to your question, So I grew up
Speaker 1: at Kennedy Democrat. You know, um, you know the Kennedy
Speaker 1: family you up in in Boston at that time. I mean,
Speaker 1: it was just like, oh, my god, that you know
Speaker 1: and and and and so much. They were heroes, absolutely
Speaker 1: heroes and and and and and why not? Um? And
Speaker 1: then as I drove across the country on my slash
Speaker 1: honeymoon and also my what, I drove out there to
Speaker 1: start working at Stanford. Um. And I was always a
Speaker 1: Boston Globe reader. Um. I began to pick up newspapers.
Speaker 1: Back in the day, the newspapers used to report things,
Speaker 1: and if you wanted an opinion, you picked up the
Speaker 1: back of the page and read the editorial and you
Speaker 1: found out what the opinions were. And Clay, what I
Speaker 1: what I came to know then, back in extreme two,
Speaker 1: when I traveled across the country, is that the same
Speaker 1: story that would be written in the Braston Grobe would
Speaker 1: be a completely different story in the Indianapolis Star and
Speaker 1: the Davoine Register and the l A Times. It blew
Speaker 1: me away and I came to realize then the incredible
Speaker 1: power of the media and how the media could absolutely control,
Speaker 1: I say control, not influence the minds and the makeup
Speaker 1: of the readers. And I and it's scared to crap
Speaker 1: out of me. And then of course I went out
Speaker 1: west and and you know, and and I see the
Speaker 1: good in everybody, Clay, I do. I see the good.
Speaker 1: I saw greatness Huthern, California, things that I loved, and
Speaker 1: most of it was the weather, um and um and yeah.
Speaker 1: And then through coaching, I was able to get into
Speaker 1: the Midwest and the South, and I've I've seen this great, great,
Speaker 1: great country of ours and um. Yeah, but it's amazing
Speaker 1: where you live, um, and what you read or what
Speaker 1: you watch or listen to has not an awful lot
Speaker 1: to who you are and what you believe. Yeah, I'm curious,
Speaker 1: by the way, now that you mentioned it, what was
Speaker 1: it like to be a Jewish kid going to Boston College,
Speaker 1: a you know, Catholic Jesuit school. Did that feel incongruous
Speaker 1: to you or did you feel comfortable there despite obviously
Speaker 1: a religious difference. I don't know what the vibe is
Speaker 1: like at Boston College or what it would have been
Speaker 1: like for you from seventy eight to eighty two in
Speaker 1: the time that you would have been there. Yep, Claire,
Speaker 1: I went to BC for a reason. I went to
Speaker 1: BC just for exactly that reason. Um. You know, there
Speaker 1: are stereotypes and there are perceptions. Um, there aren't a
Speaker 1: tremendous number of Jewish athletes out there that would be
Speaker 1: a stereotype. Could it be factually true, I don't know.
Speaker 1: But the perception of a Jewish man would be, you know,
Speaker 1: you're gonna be a doctor, or you're gonna be a lawyer.
Speaker 1: You I mean in real estate, you're gonna be smart,
Speaker 1: You're gonna make money. Whatever that stereotype or perception you
Speaker 1: necessarily would be. It wouldn't necessarily be digging ditches or
Speaker 1: being an athlete. Against all stereotypes, and I came to
Speaker 1: I came to understand that I could change that, that
Speaker 1: I could go to Boston College with with with a
Speaker 1: very large Catholic population, and they can see me pray,
Speaker 1: they could see me sweat, they could see me work,
Speaker 1: and if they want to put up if they wanted
Speaker 1: to fight me, because I had to fight a lot
Speaker 1: when I grew up for being Jewish. I didn't tell
Speaker 1: them I was Jewish. I told him I was Israeli.
Speaker 1: And then I asked them if they wanted to go,
Speaker 1: like you want to dance, I'm Israeli. Let's dance with
Speaker 1: the idea being that Israeli people were thought to be tougher.
Speaker 1: Is that is that what you were thinking? Damn, damn right,
Speaker 1: damn straight and and yes, and and that's what I wore,
Speaker 1: you know, that was my armor, that was my courage,
Speaker 1: that was my I could look to Israeli leaders for strength,
Speaker 1: and I did as a as a young Jewish boy. Um,
Speaker 1: and you know what all it all it was, Clay
Speaker 1: was getting to know each other, overcoming you know, the
Speaker 1: ignorance of never really having a Jewish friend, or never
Speaker 1: really having a black friend, or and and and and
Speaker 1: so my life has been through sports. And it started
Speaker 1: at a very young age, saying, dude, we are we
Speaker 1: are brothers Abraham, the father of all nations. We are
Speaker 1: brothers from another mother, But our father is the same.
Speaker 1: He's the same guy that that that brings us together.
Speaker 1: I tell people all the time when as as I've
Speaker 1: never been more religiously comfortable anywhere in my life than
Speaker 1: in the South, nowhere among among evangelical Christians. Um. Because
Speaker 1: when you go to services there, they read from the
Speaker 1: Old Testament. They talk about Jesus being a rabbi and
Speaker 1: being a Jew. And when I hear that as a
Speaker 1: coach and as a as someone that whose whole life
Speaker 1: is about bringing people together, I'm saying, there it is
Speaker 1: Jesus brings us together. He doesn't separate us. My whole
Speaker 1: life growing up Jewish, that was a separator. They believe
Speaker 1: Jesus was a son of God, we don't. They believe
Speaker 1: he was the Messiah, we don't. There's the line the sand,
Speaker 1: that's the bloodline. It's drawn, and if you live on
Speaker 1: this side or that side, we're willing to go to
Speaker 1: war over it. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 1: Their God, their number one guy. They're dude, the greatest
Speaker 1: guy to ever walked the face of the earth. Jesus
Speaker 1: was Jewish, He celebrated Passover, he celebrated that he walked
Speaker 1: to Israel to Jerusalem how many times a year to
Speaker 1: celebrate the new year. Russia sean key, poor dude. That
Speaker 1: that connects us. Whether you don't think so or not,
Speaker 1: I do. It's right there in the history books. And
Speaker 1: then that's who I have sort of become. Can't we
Speaker 1: look at the things that we have more in common
Speaker 1: than the things that separate us. It's such a there's
Speaker 1: so much to unpack there. Did you early on recognize
Speaker 1: because that's really what you have to do as a coach, right.
Speaker 1: The coach job is to bring people who may have
Speaker 1: tremendous differences into a cohesive whole. Much of what goes
Speaker 1: on in the country today is the opposite of that. Right,
Speaker 1: You appeal to a certain segment of the population in
Speaker 1: the hopes that you can motivate that group to support
Speaker 1: you going up against somebody else. Now that obviously your
Speaker 1: team in some level is going to have to go
Speaker 1: up against other teams. But when you go to southern Indiana,
Speaker 1: you've been at Stanford. You've been at Iowa, You've been
Speaker 1: an assistant coach. How did you end up there? And
Speaker 1: what was the experience like to go from being an
Speaker 1: assistant coach to being a head coach? How much did
Speaker 1: you have to learn? And I'll give you an analogy
Speaker 1: here that I love UM that I think you'll appreciate um.
Speaker 1: Back in the day, I remember hearing a great story
Speaker 1: from Norm Chow and I think it's a great metaphor
Speaker 1: larger universe for people as they engage in a new job.
Speaker 1: When he became a head coach for the first time,
Speaker 1: and I think it was at Hawaii, he was standing
Speaker 1: on the sideline clock was running down and he thought
Speaker 1: to himself, boy, somebody really should call a time out,
Speaker 1: you know. And then he thought, wait a minute, I'm
Speaker 1: a guy. I've got to call the time out. I'm
Speaker 1: the head coach. He had come from being an offensive coordinator,
Speaker 1: where you watch somebody else have to make the call,
Speaker 1: right like you can be in the headset saying, boy,
Speaker 1: somebody should call a time out. But he was thinking
Speaker 1: to himself as he watched the clock, boy, somebody should
Speaker 1: call it time out. And then he thought immediately like
Speaker 1: early in his coaching career. You're the headman. You know
Speaker 1: he's still aligned from Harry Trueman. The buck stops with me.
Speaker 1: I suddenly have to make that call. What is it
Speaker 1: like to go from an assistant as you work your
Speaker 1: way up, grinding no telling how many hours, to suddenly
Speaker 1: being the guy who has to call that time out,
Speaker 1: who has to make that decision. How did you find
Speaker 1: that transition? If you went to work every day as
Speaker 1: an assistant and felt like you had a very impactful
Speaker 1: role like Norm Chow had as a coordinator, um, then
Speaker 1: there's not as big a transition um to be in
Speaker 1: the head coach. But if you went to work and
Speaker 1: just simply punts the clock and really didn't take it
Speaker 1: home at night and worry about it, and and we're
Speaker 1: sleepless because you couldn't get this done or that done, UM,
Speaker 1: or couldn't go back to sleep because your mind couldn't
Speaker 1: get off of what plays you should be calling, then
Speaker 1: there's a huge jump, and then you're not ready for it. UM.
Speaker 1: And I think because I was an assistant and I
Speaker 1: tried to care uh, and I wore it on my sleeve,
Speaker 1: I wasn't impact in the games nearly as much as
Speaker 1: the head coach of the players. But but it mattered
Speaker 1: as much to me as it did to them. And
Speaker 1: so if it matters to you, I think that adjustment
Speaker 1: is a lot less the pressure UH, and the anxiety
Speaker 1: UH is greater. Um. You know, every time a head
Speaker 1: coach gets fired. UM. Oftentimes the coach a little better
Speaker 1: off financially, sometimes a lot better off financially, But down
Speaker 1: goes his staff and their families, and the trade trainers
Speaker 1: and the strength coaches and the nutritionists and the statustans
Speaker 1: and all those other people who aren't as financially secure.
Speaker 1: And so I wear that I have responsibility, Clay, when
Speaker 1: I got fired at Tennessee because I lied to the
Speaker 1: n C double about a stinking barbecue. All right, all right?
Speaker 1: And all I had to do was in my in
Speaker 1: my interview with the n C double, A I didn't
Speaker 1: have an attorney. Why I don't need an attorney. I
Speaker 1: didn't do anything wrong. They were gonna ask me a
Speaker 1: bunch of questions about some phone calls. We're fine, Who
Speaker 1: goes into one of those without an attorney? My dumbass.
Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden they pull out a
Speaker 1: picture and it's a picture of a couple of players
Speaker 1: that had a dinner at my house with a hundred
Speaker 1: other people. And if they were a year older, they
Speaker 1: legally could be there. But they weren't a year older.
Speaker 1: They were a year younger, and we already had him committed,
Speaker 1: so we didn't get any advantage. But instead of just
Speaker 1: telling the truth, myself and my assistants didn't and panicked
Speaker 1: and went back to the office and called the n
Speaker 1: C double appy one. You know what, you guys gonna
Speaker 1: come back. We didn't tell you the truth. Um. But
Speaker 1: when I made that mistake, which I am accountable part,
Speaker 1: I know, I minimized it right there. And I shouldn't
Speaker 1: have done that because what I did and and and
Speaker 1: not telling the truth um cost myself my job a reputation,
Speaker 1: but it also impacted those other families, Thank god. Steve
Speaker 1: Forbes is the head coach at Wake Forest University, and
Speaker 1: Jason Shay is assistant and um and I'm at Auburn
Speaker 1: and um and and and and and and and everything
Speaker 1: is good. I'm curious when you left, and I'm gonna
Speaker 1: come back to Tennessee because I do think that's a
Speaker 1: fascinating part of your story. Uh. But when you left
Speaker 1: Southern Indiana? Is it valuable to learn? You said you
Speaker 1: had kind of thought of yourself as a head coach,
Speaker 1: maybe as an assistant coach. Is it valuable to learn
Speaker 1: without everybody watching you as a head coach? And what
Speaker 1: I mean by that is there are a lot of
Speaker 1: guys who get their first job, and when they get
Speaker 1: their first job, they're immediately going to be criticized and
Speaker 1: analyzed in excruciating detail over being that head coach. How
Speaker 1: much did being and I'm sure there were media that
Speaker 1: covered you, but how much did being under the radar
Speaker 1: in some way as a head coach at Southern Indiana
Speaker 1: make you a better coach? Was that a better pathway
Speaker 1: than maybe, in retrospect, having gotten a head job at
Speaker 1: an n C double, a major institution where people are
Speaker 1: paying attention on a day to day basis well bow Ryan,
Speaker 1: who coached at Wisconsin coach at Wisconsin Prattville in Division
Speaker 1: three in Wisconsin Milwaukee in Division one mid major before
Speaker 1: he ever got the Wisconsin job, And when Bo was
Speaker 1: at Prettville, I was an assistant in Iowa getting ready
Speaker 1: to take the Southern Indiana job Division two BP. Let
Speaker 1: me tell you something it's the greatest thing I did.
Speaker 1: You know, Uh, I learned that a coach. I cut
Speaker 1: my teeth and understand this, Clay, you might only get
Speaker 1: one shot of in a head coach, and you better
Speaker 1: win because if you don't win, you might never get
Speaker 1: another shot. Guys get it, they lose, they go back
Speaker 1: and be assistance. Maybe a few years later they'll forget
Speaker 1: about what they did when they got their chance, and
Speaker 1: maybe they got another chance, but most of them don't.
Speaker 1: So the key is, you better win, and you better
Speaker 1: take a job you think you've got a chance to win,
Speaker 1: because it's the only chance, your only chance to get
Speaker 1: you know, to get another job. Um. But Division two
Speaker 1: is really good, Division three is really good because guess what,
Speaker 1: there's great coaching at those at those places, sometimes almost
Speaker 1: better coaching than Division one Division one. You've got good coaches,
Speaker 1: but guys that can recruit, guys that can run programs,
Speaker 1: but not necessarily all of being great coaches. Um. And
Speaker 1: I think that I think you know that that would
Speaker 1: be um obviously a a a great you know, training ground, uh,
Speaker 1: and a great preparation uh, not just not having as
Speaker 1: much attention. Um. Look, no matter what you do, you
Speaker 1: gotta win. You know, when you're winning. When you're winning,
Speaker 1: they're worried you're gonna leave. And when you're loose, using
Speaker 1: their packing your backs. So coaches are always coming or going.
Speaker 1: You want a national championship, by the way, at Southern
Speaker 1: Indiana in your third year, and then you continue to
Speaker 1: coach there. I'm looking at right now, two and thirty
Speaker 1: one and forty six. How tough of a decision was
Speaker 1: it to make to go to D one and to
Speaker 1: take Wisconsin Milwaukee. I'm sitting I'm sitting on my porch
Speaker 1: with my wife and uh and and we are you know,
Speaker 1: I got it going on in Southern Indiana. What are
Speaker 1: they paying you? By the way, what are you making
Speaker 1: at Southern Indiana at the time end of the day?
Speaker 1: Known really at the end of the day now I was.
Speaker 1: I started fifty six thousand UM back in three I
Speaker 1: took a pay cut to to to be an assistant coach.
Speaker 1: I was an assistant coach at Iowa. I took about
Speaker 1: a twenty five thousand dollar pay cut to move to Evansville,
Speaker 1: Indiana to become a Division two head coach. Much to
Speaker 1: your wife to take that, Okay, it was it was Okay,
Speaker 1: it was I wanted to You know what, you gotta
Speaker 1: take chance, you gotta bet on yourself. And so I
Speaker 1: wanted to be a head coach and that was my
Speaker 1: but that was my chance. I left when I was
Speaker 1: thirty two years old. I was ready. Tom Davis said
Speaker 1: to me two things when I left him. If your
Speaker 1: teams look like our teams, that would be a good thing.
Speaker 1: Teach what you know how to teach. Don't leave me
Speaker 1: and go learn a new system. This is a system,
Speaker 1: you know, make it your own, make it better, but
Speaker 1: but let this be your foundation, that Gary Williams Tom
Speaker 1: Davis system of coaching basketball. And a second piece of
Speaker 1: advice he gave me was be yourself. I could never
Speaker 1: be Dr Tom Davis. He was a completely different guy.
Speaker 1: He was way smarter than I am, he was more
Speaker 1: patient than I was. Whatever the case was. But it
Speaker 1: was great advice because that way I could always be myself.
Speaker 1: I didn't have to try to be something else. I
Speaker 1: could be authentic, like it or not. Right, Claire, you
Speaker 1: know me, people like me, people hate me. It's win
Speaker 1: or lose, right, It's there's there's no vanilla when it
Speaker 1: comes to Bruce Pearl and it's not because I'm not
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to play to my base and I'm
Speaker 1: not trying to to to please the enemy. Um I know,
Speaker 1: I know who my family is, I know my friends are,
Speaker 1: and I know who my opponents are. And um so no,
Speaker 1: and then when I when I when I then when
Speaker 1: I left Southern Indiana as a Division two coach, I
Speaker 1: had worked up my own TV show, my own radio show.
Speaker 1: I mean, I had it going on, and I got
Speaker 1: myself up to where I was making about a hundred
Speaker 1: eighty thousand dollars and to go to Division one Wisconsin, Milwaukee.
Speaker 1: I took the job for a hundred and fifteen thousand.
Speaker 1: I went from a Division two job and and a
Speaker 1: and a in a very modest town to where I
Speaker 1: could barely afford the rent in Milwaukee, and built that
Speaker 1: up after a few years and did better. And then
Speaker 1: find you four years later Milwaukee I beat Alabama, beat
Speaker 1: Boston College and then Tennessee, Kim Cohne, did you know
Speaker 1: your life had changed because a lot of those mid
Speaker 1: major coaches, I mean, by the way, I think that's
Speaker 1: an incredibly instructive I always like to ask people what
Speaker 1: their salaries were because a lot of people on the
Speaker 1: way up remember them, and I'm glad you told this story.
Speaker 1: And by the way, we're talking with Bruce Pearl, I'm
Speaker 1: Clay Travis. This is Wins and Losses. Box Sports Radio
Speaker 1: has the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch
Speaker 1: all of our shows at Fox Sports Radio dot com
Speaker 1: and within the I Heart Radio app search f s
Speaker 1: R to listen live. I'm glad you told that story
Speaker 1: because a lot of people believe that in order to
Speaker 1: go to a new job, they have to make more
Speaker 1: money than they made at the old job. And what
Speaker 1: I try to tell people ask people ask for advice
Speaker 1: or questions, I say, don't think about what you're making,
Speaker 1: think about what you can do. And I don't know
Speaker 1: if you're familiar with this concept, Coach, but I bet
Speaker 1: it makes a lot of sense to you. I'm big
Speaker 1: on the idea of the adjacent possible. And what I
Speaker 1: mean by the adjacent possible, if people haven't heard it before,
Speaker 1: is if you take a new job, do you have
Speaker 1: opportunities to do things that you didn't at your old job.
Speaker 1: Easy example, you couldn't go to the Sweet sixteen at
Speaker 1: Southern Indiana, you could win the d two national championship there,
Speaker 1: but you couldn't go to the sweet sixteen, so you
Speaker 1: go from one eight to one fifteen. Many people would say,
Speaker 1: oh my god, that's a big step back. Same thing
Speaker 1: when you took fifty six k to go to Southern
Speaker 1: Indiana and you're taking less than you were making as
Speaker 1: an assistant at Iowa. People can look at that and say, oh,
Speaker 1: my goodness, why would you go back? But sometimes you're
Speaker 1: going back because the future is so much more positive.
Speaker 1: Right Is that kind of the thought process that you
Speaker 1: were in when you made that decision to go to
Speaker 1: Wisconsin Milwaukee? Yeah, now that was it? And um, you
Speaker 1: know I I wanted to you know, you start off
Speaker 1: with those questions, only I did want to coach. In
Speaker 1: the answer double Division one championship, And I think the
Speaker 1: biggest thing was simply this. I was comfortable at Iowa
Speaker 1: before I became a head coach, and becoming a head
Speaker 1: coach made me a lot more uncomfortable challenge me. I
Speaker 1: was comfortable winning two one games and losing. And I
Speaker 1: had the best job in Division two at Southern Indiana
Speaker 1: in a great town, and I got uncomfortable taking a
Speaker 1: real bad job at these Wisconsin Milwaukee for no money
Speaker 1: in the league with Butler and and Detroit and U
Speaker 1: I C and Lola and and and you know, we
Speaker 1: beat Butler three out of four years, uh to win
Speaker 1: that league. And UM got uncomfortable. And then the other
Speaker 1: thing too, I think is very interesting, Clay, is this um.
Speaker 1: People that know let's say Clay Travis, they may really
Speaker 1: only know you for the last year. The guy that
Speaker 1: took over for Rush, the guy that's a regular guest
Speaker 1: on Hannity, guy that this guy right, all right? And
Speaker 1: there are there are other people that knew you ten
Speaker 1: years prior. Then there are other people that knew you
Speaker 1: ten years prior to that. Here's my point. Everybody else
Speaker 1: sees you as a Clay Travis you are today. But
Speaker 1: you know what, you don't you see the guy that
Speaker 1: you've known How old are you? You know the guy
Speaker 1: that for forty one years, they only know you for
Speaker 1: the last year. So for me, I'm sixty two. For
Speaker 1: forty five years, I was broke. I was an assistant,
Speaker 1: I was a Division two coach. I was nobody from nowhere. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we were winning, but I was so far off the radar.
Speaker 1: Now when I walk into a home or I walk
Speaker 1: around the final four or I'm on when it wins
Speaker 1: and losses right now with you, it's the Bruce Pearl
Speaker 1: from Auburn and Tennesseee that people know. But that's not
Speaker 1: the guy that I still know. Like I still won't
Speaker 1: buy a whopper unless it's two for four dollars. I
Speaker 1: ain't paying, you know, the three sixty nine or three
Speaker 1: seventy nine for that one whop. I'm not because I
Speaker 1: was poor for forty five years and and and that's
Speaker 1: that's who I really am, and and and and people
Speaker 1: just don't know that when they bump into people that are,
Speaker 1: you know, sort of at a place right now where
Speaker 1: I'm at the top of my profession right now. But
Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't start here say I'm glad you
Speaker 1: brought that up, because that was gonna be my question.
Speaker 1: When you got the job at Tennessee. Suddenly you start
Speaker 1: making money, right and also the attention that comes with that.
Speaker 1: And I always like to ask people. And look, I
Speaker 1: did not have h substantial money either, like I was
Speaker 1: all would never order you mentioned the whopper. I would
Speaker 1: never order something that was anywhere near the most expensive
Speaker 1: thing on the menu. Uh, you know, like, if you
Speaker 1: sit down in a restaurant, you're like, oh, man, I
Speaker 1: would know. Now it's a good thing to not have
Speaker 1: to worry about that. I was gonna ask you when
Speaker 1: you got to the point where and maybe you're still
Speaker 1: not there, which is also fascinating, where you could go
Speaker 1: to a restaurant. Uh. And I'm not saying it's like
Speaker 1: the most expensive restaurant in the world, but you don't
Speaker 1: worry about what something costs you still in your mind,
Speaker 1: every time you sit down, you look at the prices
Speaker 1: on the on the menu, and and and are conscious
Speaker 1: of of of those four or five years when you
Speaker 1: didn't have the money to order whatever you wanted. Well,
Speaker 1: I do, I do a little bit because I remember,
Speaker 1: you know, I remember that, Yeah, we went out to
Speaker 1: dinner on Sunday. Um, every other Sunday. I had everything
Speaker 1: I need as a kid. But literally going to a
Speaker 1: restaurant that was at every other Sunday. Uh, an ice
Speaker 1: cream cone. That was for a really good report card. Um.
Speaker 1: That wasn't just like let's go get ice cream, we're hungry.
Speaker 1: That was you know, hey, we had a we got
Speaker 1: a good report card, Let's go get an ice cream. Um.
Speaker 1: And that's how I grew up, and so I sort
Speaker 1: of still failed that way. I still go to the
Speaker 1: clearance track. I walk into a store. You know, I'm right,
Speaker 1: I'm right over that. Come right over that clearance track. Man.
Speaker 1: You go to a pro shop right now. Man, you
Speaker 1: walk into pro shop and and you look at what
Speaker 1: they want for some of them shirts. Yeah, I just
Speaker 1: go over there, right Yeah, I know. I mean, look,
Speaker 1: I get made fun of all the time for the
Speaker 1: clothes that I end up wearing. I mean I buy
Speaker 1: stuff at Costco a lot. I mean right off the
Speaker 1: you know, like I get, I eat the samples and
Speaker 1: uh and you know, like I'll buy. I mean, my
Speaker 1: kids make fun of me. I've got a lot of
Speaker 1: Kirkland brand stuff because I just I mean, one, I'm
Speaker 1: probably clueless. My wife is better at spending money on
Speaker 1: on clothes. Certainly, there's a lot of a lot of
Speaker 1: people out there listening not even along right now, and
Speaker 1: shoes for god knows, but I'm kind of clueless a
Speaker 1: lot of times on it, so uh, it doesn't register.
Speaker 1: I mean when I went to g W there were
Speaker 1: a lot of kids with a lot of money, and
Speaker 1: they would always you know, somebody say, hey, did you
Speaker 1: see Uh you know what what what that guy is? Uh?
Speaker 1: You know what that guy's jeans cost or what that
Speaker 1: girl's purse. I I was so clueless on it. I
Speaker 1: didn't even notice. Like it just went right over my head.
Speaker 1: And I think there's a benefit to that, but it is.
Speaker 1: So you go to Tennessee. So what was it like?
Speaker 1: And and this is where we met because I'm a
Speaker 1: long time universe My grandfather played for General neil in
Speaker 1: back in the day. People know who are listening? Uh?
Speaker 1: And and so I grew up going to games and
Speaker 1: that that was the big trip we would take growing
Speaker 1: up in Nashville. Get to go to watch a game
Speaker 1: in neil and Stadium. Uh. And I was there for
Speaker 1: Thompson Bowling when it opened back in God to go
Speaker 1: watch games there. That was as big as things got.
Speaker 1: And you got to Tennessee, and Tennessee did not have
Speaker 1: an illustrious record, certainly basket all history wise, necessarily certainly
Speaker 1: not to go to six straight n C Double A
Speaker 1: tournaments like you did. What was that experience like to
Speaker 1: go from I'm sure there were fans at Wisconsin Milwaukee
Speaker 1: in southern Indiana and I'm sure you cultivated them well,
Speaker 1: but what was walking into a fan base that was
Speaker 1: as hungry for success as Tennessee like for you. Yeah, Clay,
Speaker 1: for the first time in my career, I was probably
Speaker 1: a little bit over my head. Um. I was forty
Speaker 1: years old. Um, I had more talent. I had left
Speaker 1: more talent at the University of Wisconsin Milwaukee, then I
Speaker 1: inherited it Tennessee. Um. But I wasn't playing in the
Speaker 1: Horizon League. I was in the SEC um and Uh,
Speaker 1: it was almost overwhelming. But you know, we had some
Speaker 1: interesting pieces. Um. And we had a great point guarding C. J. Watson.
Speaker 1: We had a a that that really really was was needed,
Speaker 1: a fresh start. Chris Lofton had a great freshman year
Speaker 1: for Buzz Peterson. Uh. And of course no Kentucky and Louisville.
Speaker 1: Um and um. You know, nobody had recruited Chris out
Speaker 1: of Maysville, Kentucky. And um, he he was gonna leave.
Speaker 1: Maybe told me you're losing your best player, he's leaving,
Speaker 1: And I said, well, I mean, okay, he's leaving. He's leaving.
Speaker 1: I'd love to meet with him one time, but I'll
Speaker 1: meet with him. So I met with the team. Um,
Speaker 1: and you know, of course, you know we need to
Speaker 1: tighten things up. There wasn't a ton of discipline. You
Speaker 1: guys were missing class, they were late for things, so
Speaker 1: and so forth and so um. My very first night
Speaker 1: on the job. My next morning, the next morning, I
Speaker 1: get a report that like five kids miss class and
Speaker 1: and and a couple of kids were late. And believe
Speaker 1: or not, ironically, one of those kids was Chris Lofton,
Speaker 1: who's never liked anything. He's the perfect kid, right. I
Speaker 1: called those seven kids up, and you know, so tomorrow morning,
Speaker 1: six am, Um, you're running and uh, you know, for
Speaker 1: a come on, coach, you know, I just I won't happen.
Speaker 1: I said, look, I told you guys the other night
Speaker 1: that you know that you're gonna start going to class
Speaker 1: and do these things. You've already gotten all your second
Speaker 1: third chances. You have to get there at six o'clock
Speaker 1: tomorrow morning or pack your bags and leave. And uh,
Speaker 1: Chris Lofton showed up to that run, and so did
Speaker 1: those other six guys. And that's when he called home
Speaker 1: that night. He said, co he said, Mom and Dad,
Speaker 1: I'm staying at Tennessee. And that changed everything for you
Speaker 1: because boy, oh boy, was he fun to watch. Now
Speaker 1: you also, and this is something that I think is significant.
Speaker 1: You've talked about how you use sports to make a
Speaker 1: difference beyond the world of sports, and Chris Lofton's story,
Speaker 1: and certainly the work you did with Pat Summit, who
Speaker 1: I know you had a tremendous relationship with. In fact,
Speaker 1: let me ask you, what was Pat Summit like for
Speaker 1: people out there who were not familiar with U T.
Speaker 1: S women's basketball coach. It's one of the most legendary
Speaker 1: coaches of all time. Did you know much about Pat
Speaker 1: Summit before you got to Tennessee. You guys hit it off.
Speaker 1: But what was she like? Yeah, she was just a sweetheart. Um,
Speaker 1: Pat could have Pat would have been. Um, she would
Speaker 1: have been successful no matter what she did. If she
Speaker 1: was a university president, if she was president of country,
Speaker 1: if she was a United States senator, she was a
Speaker 1: men's baseball coach or a women's basketball coach, Pat Summit
Speaker 1: would have been would have been one of the best
Speaker 1: to ever do it. That's just how she was driven,
Speaker 1: how she was raised. Um. She was an incredible mom.
Speaker 1: She was a great friend, she was loyal, and she
Speaker 1: created a brand Clay. How in the world could could
Speaker 1: the Tennessee volunteers have ever walked away from the Lady Balls.
Speaker 1: I mean when we were the Valls at Tennessee, that
Speaker 1: was like nothing compared to being a Lady Ball, Like
Speaker 1: and then and then, and then and then these you know,
Speaker 1: these cancer culture folks that are on the other side
Speaker 1: of things, or these these women's activists, they looked at
Speaker 1: Lady This as somehow not being as good as oh,
Speaker 1: we gotta be the Lady Bulldogs, we gotta be the
Speaker 1: Lady this or that. No, we're bulldogs. Well guess what
Speaker 1: at Tennessee, the Lady Valls had it going on and
Speaker 1: the Balls weren't ship compared to the Lady Balls, and
Speaker 1: they gave it up, had some It created the Yankees.
Speaker 1: She was the Dallas Cowboys, she was the brand for
Speaker 1: women's college basketball. She was the face and she owned it.
Speaker 1: And um, obviously Tennessee, you know, Tennessee loved her for it.
Speaker 1: And it was just tragic, you know that we lost her, um,
Speaker 1: you know, at such a young time. And then as
Speaker 1: far as Chris Lofton is concerned, you know the story
Speaker 1: behind him out living cancer and of course we went
Speaker 1: and we beat Gan Outlive O U T l i
Speaker 1: v E. And that was Tennessee Basketball's fight against cancer.
Speaker 1: UM Chris was diagnosed with cancer. UH after we lost
Speaker 1: to Greg Odin Mike Conley in the n C Double
Speaker 1: A Tournament. A random drug test turned up the fact
Speaker 1: that he either had taken steroids, he was pregnant, or
Speaker 1: he had to sticular cancer. We were already for pregnant,
Speaker 1: but that didn't happen. And UH and he fought at
Speaker 1: me won. He came back his senior year and UH
Speaker 1: and and and then after Chris graduated, we started out Live.
Speaker 1: We raised over two million dollars UH for the University
Speaker 1: of Tennessee Hospital Cancer Institution. And in fact, I'm very
Speaker 1: proud that the Chemo Hut Chemo and Radiation Hut on
Speaker 1: the fourth floor. I believe the cancer Institute is the
Speaker 1: Bruce and Brandy Pearl UH Chemo Hut if you will.
Speaker 1: And UM I brought that campaign to Auburn and UH
Speaker 1: we do a UT outlive A U T l I V.
Speaker 1: And this year alone, we're gonna put two fifty dollars
Speaker 1: in the pockets of cancer patients in the state of
Speaker 1: Alabama who are having financial challenges while they're fighting their cancer. Because,
Speaker 1: as you know, cancer is something that it's not a
Speaker 1: one you know, it's not a one trip pony. You
Speaker 1: gotta you gotta do the radiation and the key moment
Speaker 1: the surgery. It can take years. That takes you out
Speaker 1: of work, and that sometimes makes it really hard to
Speaker 1: pay the bills. How can people donate and be involved,
Speaker 1: by the way, because there's a lot of people listening
Speaker 1: right now, I mean, that's phenomenal work. They just I'm
Speaker 1: assuming they can type in on Google basically A U
Speaker 1: T A U T L I V E. Every penny
Speaker 1: we'll go to a person that is in financial need. Um,
Speaker 1: we even we even when I first got here, did it.
Speaker 1: We did. We sent some money home to Tennessee. But
Speaker 1: right now we're working with twelve agencies and hospitals in Alabama,
Speaker 1: so outlived com and we'll get that money to a family,
Speaker 1: more than one family that that needs it. If you
Speaker 1: could go back and recoach any game that you had
Speaker 1: at Tennessee, I don't know if you go back and
Speaker 1: watch and I'm curious on that, like what game would
Speaker 1: you want? It gets Michigan State to go to the
Speaker 1: Final four. I was there for that one. I watched
Speaker 1: that in person. What what would you what? What would
Speaker 1: you change? Oh, it's an easy fixed, clay, it's an
Speaker 1: easy fix. So we are Um, we are down. Um,
Speaker 1: I think we're down one. No, wait a second, we're tied.
Speaker 1: And it's late in the game, and Scotty Hopson. I
Speaker 1: call Scotty's number to get downhill. He gets downhill, he
Speaker 1: gets filed. Um and um, he makes the first one
Speaker 1: and we go up one. Yeah. I have Wayne Chisholm
Speaker 1: and Brian Williams on the free throw line and Casey mrs.
Speaker 1: That's a big mistake. They're both big kids. I should
Speaker 1: have had them both back. You got a one point lead,
Speaker 1: take them off the line, make or miss. Get your
Speaker 1: defense established. Scotty misses the second one. Both Brian and
Speaker 1: Wayne go chasing down the rebound. Michigan State gets the rebound,
Speaker 1: they outlet it, they get down the floor and with
Speaker 1: about three seconds left, maybe they get the ball to
Speaker 1: the rim and JP Prince has called for a file.
Speaker 1: Actually think he got it clean. If I just took
Speaker 1: Brian and Wayne off the line, Um, we would have
Speaker 1: defended that. We'd have beat Michigan State. We'd have gone
Speaker 1: to Indianapolis, where Peyton Manning was the quarterback for the Colts,
Speaker 1: and we would have played the final four. The first
Speaker 1: game he gets Butler the game Butler almost beat Duke
Speaker 1: of the buzzer that have been that had been Uh,
Speaker 1: it had been us um um in that final four. Um,
Speaker 1: and Peyton Manna would have been sitting on my bench
Speaker 1: because obviously on the stadium. So how quickly after the
Speaker 1: game did you realize you had made that wrong decision
Speaker 1: to have both those guys on the free Was it
Speaker 1: like instantaneous in the locker room after no, the minute,
Speaker 1: the minute we filed, the minute we found, the minute
Speaker 1: those guys chased the ball down and like, oh, I
Speaker 1: need to get him off the line and get him back. Um.
Speaker 1: So you're that close to the final four. How long
Speaker 1: does it take to get over that game? UM? I'll
Speaker 1: let you know what I do. Yeah, you know, I
Speaker 1: meant because you think you could have won a national
Speaker 1: championship potentially that year, right, you go to the final four,
Speaker 1: Butler but Duke. I thought Duke was the only team, uh,
Speaker 1: that we could It was like West Virginia Butler, Duke
Speaker 1: and Michigan state it would have been Auburn. We would
Speaker 1: have played West Virginia. I'd say we would. I think
Speaker 1: we would have beaten them, and then we would have
Speaker 1: gotten Duke in the Champions of Game. Duke was better
Speaker 1: than us Duke Duke Duke won the enough chapiship that year.
Speaker 1: But I would you know, obviously would like to, you know,
Speaker 1: had a shot at him when you lose your job
Speaker 1: at Tennessee, And you mentioned it earlier over I think
Speaker 1: the n C double a shortly thereafter made that not
Speaker 1: even a penalty, right, Um, in terms of having like
Speaker 1: a seventeen year old, I think it was a junior
Speaker 1: over to the barbecue, as you mentioned. Uh, so you
Speaker 1: get in trouble, not for really the infraction, but lying
Speaker 1: about it. Do you still should Tennessee have stood behind you?
Speaker 1: You've seen a lot of coaches that have had a
Speaker 1: lot of different issues, UH that universities have stayed behind
Speaker 1: stood behind them. That may have changed somewhat, Uh in
Speaker 1: the last you know, seven or eight years, maybe more
Speaker 1: so than back then. But do you wish Tennessee had
Speaker 1: stood behind you and supported you? Uh? And and if
Speaker 1: they had, I'm assuming you still think you'd be at Tennessee. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I I think. Look, a couple of things happened at
Speaker 1: that time. Um. You know, first of all, you know,
Speaker 1: should Tennessee have fired Philip Falmer a year after he
Speaker 1: went to the SEC championship game and almost beat l Sho,
Speaker 1: who won the national championship? Uh? And the answer is yes, Um.
Speaker 1: Eight games later they fire him, um and and and
Speaker 1: the reason why they fired Philip Falmer was because he
Speaker 1: beat everybody except he had a hard time beating this
Speaker 1: guy that just got the job at Florida named Urban Meyer.
Speaker 1: And um, uh you know, and the guy who just
Speaker 1: got the Alabama job. Yeah. Well, little did Tennessee realize
Speaker 1: at that time that nobody had beaten Urban Meyer would
Speaker 1: beat Urban Myers Saban. But they didn't know that at
Speaker 1: the time, and they should have. He owned Georgia and
Speaker 1: South Carolina and Vanderbilt and Kentucky and everybody else he
Speaker 1: played and um nine wins and the outback ball wasn't enough,
Speaker 1: all right, and and and and obviously they're still they're
Speaker 1: still cursed for it. And then you know, from my standpoint,
Speaker 1: the Tennessee fans were wonderful, Clay, absolutely wonderful. And I
Speaker 1: apologize to them for making a mistake. UM, But the
Speaker 1: leadership at Tennessee UM at that time, the board of trustees,
Speaker 1: the president, UM didn't stand behind me. I think Mike
Speaker 1: Campelton R. A. D. Tried but he wasn't able to.
Speaker 1: And UM No, it was it was, it was a
Speaker 1: it was. It was very hurtful. UM. I still love
Speaker 1: Tennessee because I love the fans there, I love the
Speaker 1: people there. UM. And and I gotta tell you, I'm
Speaker 1: glad that I am at Auburn. UM again got at
Speaker 1: a plan and I'm not saying it was his plan
Speaker 1: for me to make a mistake like that, but obviously
Speaker 1: saved me, offered me grace, and I wound up going
Speaker 1: to Auburn. And for me, this has been the great
Speaker 1: This has been the greatest fit for me. UM. Auburn
Speaker 1: is a fantastic place. And by the way, if your
Speaker 1: kids don't go to Tennessee, they should, really they should
Speaker 1: really look seriously. Yeah, knowing who you are and knowing
Speaker 1: what you're all about being an Auburn man or an
Speaker 1: Auburn woman, loving God loving country, um Man, Auburn is
Speaker 1: a We need more places like Auburn in our country.
Speaker 1: Our kids, and you know, country would be even better
Speaker 1: off if we had more places like Auburn. It's it's
Speaker 1: interesting you say that, And I'm gonna come back to
Speaker 1: in a sec how much beating up of yourself. You
Speaker 1: and I got to know each other. You would come
Speaker 1: on and break down, uh college basketball for us back
Speaker 1: when we're doing the three h L Show in Nashville,
Speaker 1: and you stayed in Knoxville and you took a job
Speaker 1: outside of basketball and you're there close to the University
Speaker 1: of Tennessee. You had to sit out I think was
Speaker 1: it three years? Uh, where you're not allowed to coach.
Speaker 1: How much did you beat yourself up over that experience?
Speaker 1: How tough was it to stay in Knoxville and be
Speaker 1: so close to a job that you would obviously loved
Speaker 1: while not knowing necessarily if you were going to get
Speaker 1: that next job. And I'll ask you about how you
Speaker 1: came to pick Auburn and how that came together. But
Speaker 1: how tough was those were those three years for you? Well? Uh,
Speaker 1: they were tough. Um but but but but there's there
Speaker 1: was one very simple reason behind it. I looked at
Speaker 1: one of the coaching job Donnie Nelson offered me the
Speaker 1: Dallas Legends job in the G League. UM, and I
Speaker 1: almost took it. And I always appreciate coach Carlisle um
Speaker 1: and and and uh those guys for giving me that opportunity. Um,
Speaker 1: but I was a divorce dad, and I had an
Speaker 1: eighth grader and a and a young one in high school.
Speaker 1: And I just couldn't leave Knoxville for that reason. I
Speaker 1: just I couldn't leave them. I couldn't take them with me,
Speaker 1: and I I didn't want to Um, you know, I
Speaker 1: didn't want to leave town, um, having just recently been divorced,
Speaker 1: And so I had to stay in Knoxville. And Bill
Speaker 1: said pon the HD Hackney company gave me an opportunity.
Speaker 1: You see those trucks running all over all over the
Speaker 1: place with that big H delivered stuff in the convenience
Speaker 1: stores that along with XM Radio, along with three h
Speaker 1: L along with ESPN. I worked about six jobs to
Speaker 1: try to you know, pay all the mortgages and pay
Speaker 1: all the things I had to pay, um and um.
Speaker 1: And then when Tennesse when Auburn came knocking. It really
Speaker 1: was partly a recommendation that Mike Hamilton made to his
Speaker 1: friend J Jacobs who was the a d then and
Speaker 1: said you need to hire him. This guy is good.
Speaker 1: Character wasn't an issue. Um, it don't for better worse.
Speaker 1: It's our culture and our character our greatest strength and um.
Speaker 1: But the coaching staff that I put together, the men
Speaker 1: I have around our kids, UM and um and so
Speaker 1: everything everything's worked out really really well for us, club blessed.
Speaker 1: Remember when you took when you took the Auburn job,
Speaker 1: Remember us having a conversation. This is I don't think
Speaker 1: you'd be upset about this now because you've have had
Speaker 1: tremendous success. But you said, hey, I did it at
Speaker 1: UH Southern Indiana, I did it at Wisconsin Milwaukee, I
Speaker 1: did it at Tennessee. I think I can do it
Speaker 1: again at Auburn, but I'm not sure. Uh. And I
Speaker 1: remember that that conversation, just because you're taking a new job,
Speaker 1: and that first couple of years at Auburn, I'm looking
Speaker 1: right now. You had losing records, You finished thirteenth in
Speaker 1: the SEC. You had everything rolling at Tennessee, the recruiting,
Speaker 1: you went to the Elite eight. You're a play away
Speaker 1: from the final four. How much self doubt did you
Speaker 1: have early in your tenure at Auburn because I imagine
Speaker 1: finishing what four and fourteen and five and thirteen, those
Speaker 1: first two years had to be humbling for you. Um,
Speaker 1: you know what, You're absolutely accurate with every single word
Speaker 1: you used except the last one. Um. I am a
Speaker 1: very humble person. UM. I know I don't act like it,
Speaker 1: but I really am. And I'm not paying myself. I'm
Speaker 1: not paying myself a compliment because I don't think a
Speaker 1: ton of myself. I don't, um. And but you're right.
Speaker 1: I had an immense self doubt. Like I went to
Speaker 1: my I went to Jane said, Jay, listen, I've been
Speaker 1: here two years. Um, I was out three. Um, what
Speaker 1: I'm doing right now is not working, not cutting edge. Um.
Speaker 1: When I went to when I was at Milwaukee and
Speaker 1: my days at Tennessee what we were doing. It was
Speaker 1: in fuego. I mean, people wanted to know what we
Speaker 1: were doing and how we were doing it. We were
Speaker 1: on top or you know, or at least you know
Speaker 1: for an up and comer, for not being a blue blood.
Speaker 1: And absolutely I had tremendous self doubt. Um, and even
Speaker 1: thought about, you know, man, I might I might have
Speaker 1: lost my touch, right maybe and UM, I wound up,
Speaker 1: you know, recruiting a couple of good players, you know,
Speaker 1: making a couple of adjustments on my staff, studying a
Speaker 1: little bit, and UH got it back. And for the
Speaker 1: last five years, nobody's won more. We won three championships
Speaker 1: in five years at Auburn. We won more games than
Speaker 1: anybody in the league in the last five years. We've
Speaker 1: beaten Kentucky seven years in a row. Now, we haven't
Speaker 1: beat him every time we played them, probably been him
Speaker 1: half of time. But we've I mean, we've done the
Speaker 1: things that you need to do, UM to be considered
Speaker 1: one of the best programs in the SEC. I meant
Speaker 1: to ask you another question back, because I do think
Speaker 1: it it factors in here. This is wins and losses.
Speaker 1: I'm Clay Travis Bruce Pearl. Fox Sports Radio has the
Speaker 1: best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of
Speaker 1: our shows at Fox sports Radio dot com and within
Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app search f s R to
Speaker 1: listen live. You mentioned having young kids. How do you
Speaker 1: balance being a dad with having and this could be
Speaker 1: true for being a mom too, with having a highly
Speaker 1: intense and pressurized job that is so incredibly competitive. You
Speaker 1: seem to have, based on experience, a really good relationship
Speaker 1: by and large with your kids. How do you balance that?
Speaker 1: What advice would you give now you said your sixty two,
Speaker 1: your kids are grown. Uh, there's a lot of people
Speaker 1: who are listening to this right now that have young
Speaker 1: kids and they're trying to be successful professionally but also
Speaker 1: get that work life balance. Do you have any words
Speaker 1: of wisdom for people out there who were trying to
Speaker 1: balance all of this? Yeah? You know. UM, we go
Speaker 1: to work every single day basically so that our kids
Speaker 1: will have it better than we had it. Um, and
Speaker 1: sometimes that takes us away from the precious ones were
Speaker 1: trying to take care of. Um. Honesty is the best policy.
Speaker 1: My kids always knew where I was, and there were
Speaker 1: trade offs. Um. I didn't have any fishing trips or
Speaker 1: ski trips, not many of golf vacations with the boys.
Speaker 1: And I'm not complaining. Um, I worked and I hung
Speaker 1: out with my family. Now did I enjoy working? Did
Speaker 1: I go on a golf trip every now and then
Speaker 1: that was work related? Um? Yeah, But my kids always
Speaker 1: knew where I was and when I was away from
Speaker 1: them and I had to miss something, um, we talked
Speaker 1: about it. And I tried to get them to understand. Now,
Speaker 1: I didn't miss the parent teacher conference. I made as
Speaker 1: many games and plays and things that I possibly could
Speaker 1: make that took a priority, and my kids knew it.
Speaker 1: And then the other thing I did. And my dad
Speaker 1: did this with me too. My dad took me. He
Speaker 1: worked every Saturday, but he took me to the office
Speaker 1: on Saturday. I worked out in the warehouse while he
Speaker 1: worked in the office on Saturdays, and it was a
Speaker 1: way for us to come and go together. Because he
Speaker 1: worked six days a week, he could have gone in
Speaker 1: the office on Saturday and not taking me. I always
Speaker 1: took my kids on the bus. I always brought when
Speaker 1: I went on the road. I always took one of
Speaker 1: them with me. I had one when when I was
Speaker 1: in southern Indiana. Now when I got to Tennessee, not
Speaker 1: quite as much because of the way we traveled. Um,
Speaker 1: But you know what, do the best. You can make
Speaker 1: sure your kids know where you are and and if
Speaker 1: you can't be there, make sure they at least understand
Speaker 1: why and and provide them with an explanation. What would
Speaker 1: you mentioned Auburn being such a fantastic place? What makes
Speaker 1: Auburn such a fantastic place in your mind. What do
Speaker 1: you wish the rest of the country was like like
Speaker 1: Auburn is. What does Auburn do well? What would the country?
Speaker 1: What could the country learn from Auburn and your experience? Well,
Speaker 1: you know what. First of all, um, as you know, Clay,
Speaker 1: I am conservative. Um. I grew up at Kenny Kennedy Democrat. Um.
Speaker 1: You know I'm I'm much more Republican leaning. Um. And
Speaker 1: and I love our country and I'm a patriot, and
Speaker 1: I believe in values, and I believe the sanctity of life. Uh.
Speaker 1: I believe in God. Um. I pray before meals um
Speaker 1: and um. And I try to live a life where
Speaker 1: I'm doing the things that would give God a chance
Speaker 1: uh to to bless before it. Um. How you treat people, Um,
Speaker 1: you know, the kindness that you show, the generosity of
Speaker 1: the show. Um you know, UM, that's kind of what
Speaker 1: Auburn is. UM. If you're interested in a different girl
Speaker 1: every night, or going out to a different bar all
Speaker 1: the time, and if you want to run fast, then
Speaker 1: you need then you need to go somewhere else because
Speaker 1: you're not gonna fit in at Auburn. UM. Our student
Speaker 1: athletes are students. They're they're grinding, they're training, and they're working.
Speaker 1: We're having fun while we're doing it. But you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes fun is going to watch Sunny Lee in a
Speaker 1: gymnastics meet, Ravan, going out to the bar and getting trashed. Now,
Speaker 1: back when I went to Boston College, it was different,
Speaker 1: and it was sort of different then. You know, it
Speaker 1: was like animal Farm. That was what college was. It
Speaker 1: was animal Farm. And you remember that movie right was
Speaker 1: not Animal Animal House, Animal House, Animal House, Animals, the
Speaker 1: book Animals, and and that was what I grew up
Speaker 1: thinking college was supposed to be. So how drunk could
Speaker 1: I get? You know, like I said, how many times
Speaker 1: could I streak? You know? That's what That's what That's what.
Speaker 1: That's what I thought it was supposed to be. That
Speaker 1: is exactly opposite of what Auburn is. And um, you know,
Speaker 1: we're gonna stand at attention for the national anthem. We're
Speaker 1: gonna point our right hand over our heart and a
Speaker 1: left hand behind our back, and I'm gonna stay at
Speaker 1: attention until the flag leaves the floor and and um,
Speaker 1: you know what, and if you don't like it, get
Speaker 1: over it, and if and if and if and if
Speaker 1: you If you want to do something else, that's fine,
Speaker 1: it's up to you, but do not criticize me for
Speaker 1: doing what I feel is right. And that's one of
Speaker 1: the things that we lost to like like, um, you know,
Speaker 1: in my family, UM, I've got a couple of children
Speaker 1: that are way left to center, all right. I got
Speaker 1: a couple of children in a way right a center.
Speaker 1: And I'm actually kind of proud that that we're a
Speaker 1: mixed family, if you will. But we're gonna sit down
Speaker 1: over dinner and we're gonna have a conversation and we're
Speaker 1: not going to get elevated. And I'm I may not
Speaker 1: agree with what you think about what's going on in
Speaker 1: Ukraine right now, or what's going on in Israel right now,
Speaker 1: or what's going on at the border right now, or
Speaker 1: what's going on in Washington right now, but I'm gonna
Speaker 1: respect your opinion and I'm gonna listen to it, and
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna find eight ways to send it to
Speaker 1: to tell you that you're wrong, even though guess what,
Speaker 1: I don't agree with you. Um. The difference at Auburn
Speaker 1: is we should be able to share our thoughts in
Speaker 1: exchange of ideas, and at so many other places, particularly
Speaker 1: places that are more liberal. Uh. It's their way of
Speaker 1: the highway. And if you don't agree with them somehow,
Speaker 1: you're either a racist, or are part of the basketball
Speaker 1: of deplorables um or or something that just is um
Speaker 1: not very complementary. By the way, I agree with almost
Speaker 1: every everything you said. It's not going to be a surprise.
Speaker 1: You and I see eye to eye on a lot
Speaker 1: of things. Let me ask you this. I love Charles Barkley. Um.
Speaker 1: He obviously is Auburn basketball. Prior to you, a lot
Speaker 1: of people when they heard Auburn basketball would think Charles Barkley.
Speaker 1: What is Charles Barkley like? What does he mean for
Speaker 1: Auburn basketball and the university as a whole? Charles Barkley
Speaker 1: is like this. When you are at a party and
Speaker 1: it's a crop room, there are people in that room,
Speaker 1: they're talking to you, and they're actually looking over your
Speaker 1: shoulder trying to see who the next best guest is
Speaker 1: that talking. When Charles Barkley is talking to you, he's
Speaker 1: looking at you, he's engaged with you, and most likely
Speaker 1: you're either the janitor, the bartender, the server and hold
Speaker 1: on a second. Michael Michael Jordan's, I'll be right with you.
Speaker 1: Hold on one second, like he'll finish his conversation with
Speaker 1: you before he gets to me or Michael Jordan's or
Speaker 1: anybody else in the room. He is genuine, He is kind.
Speaker 1: He feels grateful to Auburn for having stayed with him
Speaker 1: at a time when he was young and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: got into some trouble and recognizes that Sonny Smith as
Speaker 1: his coach, Auburn as his university coach, Pat Die as
Speaker 1: its leader, helped get him from where he was to
Speaker 1: where he went. And um, you know, Charles Barkley is
Speaker 1: a great American. He does. And I've been fortunate to
Speaker 1: get go out to dinner with him a couple of times. Uh,
Speaker 1: we overlap. I don't know him perfectly well, but he
Speaker 1: gave I was out to dinner with him once, and
Speaker 1: I think you'll appreciate this advice. One of the best
Speaker 1: piece of advice I've ever gotten, Uh, he said, Clay. Uh,
Speaker 1: this was early in my radio career because the guys
Speaker 1: who worked down at Jocks, I think you probably know
Speaker 1: Lance Taylor, Ryan Jim Dunaway, Ryan Brown. They had a
Speaker 1: great show. Um, we were out to dinner with them,
Speaker 1: and they have Barkley on all the time because Lane
Speaker 1: has been buddies with Barkley for twenty some odd years.
Speaker 1: We're out at dinner, Lance, me and Barkley um in
Speaker 1: Birmingham and uh and Barkley said, Clay, you know, because
Speaker 1: we had just done the show. He said, I got
Speaker 1: great advice for you in media. He said, if you
Speaker 1: and I think this is great advice for life, but
Speaker 1: it certainly works in an industry where you might be
Speaker 1: in public eye sometimes. He said, if you worry about
Speaker 1: the people who don't like you, then the people who
Speaker 1: do like you won't like you anymore. And I just
Speaker 1: thought that was so incredibly profound. This is before social
Speaker 1: media had taken off. This is probably, you know, two
Speaker 1: thousand six, two thousand seven. We're having this conversation and
Speaker 1: it makes more sense today than it even did back then.
Speaker 1: But I use that with my own kids, right, because
Speaker 1: you're someone who's comfortable in your own skin. We've all
Speaker 1: seen your shirtless. For God's sakes, I liked I am
Speaker 1: very I am very comfortable in my own skin. For
Speaker 1: better or worse. I'm gonna tell you what I think,
Speaker 1: But if you disagree with me, that doesn't mean to
Speaker 1: your point on your your family, Like if somebody he says, hey,
Speaker 1: you're you're crazy, that's an idiot. I had a opinion.
Speaker 1: I'll laugh with you, you know, a click of beer glass.
Speaker 1: We can agree to disagree. It's not going to change
Speaker 1: the way that I feel about you on a one
Speaker 1: on one basis, and you're that way. And I think
Speaker 1: Barkley kind of distilled it right. I mean, that is
Speaker 1: a perfect advice, especially in the social media age, when
Speaker 1: everybody's terrified no matter what you do for a living,
Speaker 1: you're afraid of what you might say on Facebook. It's
Speaker 1: gonna cost you your job you say something on Twitter
Speaker 1: or Instagram or wherever it might be. And that leads
Speaker 1: me into this question recruiting and talking with kids, and
Speaker 1: you mentioned, you know, like every time your phone goes off,
Speaker 1: I'm sure you've looked down if it's two am and
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, you know, what might have gone on.
Speaker 1: You're sixty two years old. Our kids different now than
Speaker 1: they were when you started coaching. If so, how do
Speaker 1: they need coaching more now than they did when you
Speaker 1: were younger? How would you assess the trajectory of the
Speaker 1: country through the kids that you coach in your experience. Well,
Speaker 1: that's a great question. I think that. Um, I would
Speaker 1: say the kids have changed a little bit recently, and
Speaker 1: I'll tell you why in a second. But my general
Speaker 1: thought to you is, no, they haven't changed that much.
Speaker 1: They still want discipline, they still want to be held accountable,
Speaker 1: they still want to be coached, they still want to
Speaker 1: be pushed, they still want to be great. And I
Speaker 1: think that we think because of all of the things
Speaker 1: that go on, and including a lot of culture and
Speaker 1: the transfer portals. And if it's not if my a,
Speaker 1: if my little league, this little league team isn't playing,
Speaker 1: isn't pitching me, I'm gonna go. My parents are gonna
Speaker 1: get me across town. I'm gonna go play for the
Speaker 1: other little league team. And rather than you know, we
Speaker 1: we we flee rather than fight. Um. You know so often, UM,
Speaker 1: but I think generally, and by the way, it ain't
Speaker 1: the kids fault. It's our fault. We haven't taught him,
Speaker 1: and and and we have not been great examples, and
Speaker 1: so quit blaming the kids when they screw up. It's
Speaker 1: it's our responsibility to coach them and teach them, and
Speaker 1: and and to be the adults you know in the room.
Speaker 1: The greatest challenge right now we have, Clay, is the
Speaker 1: social media is the platform, um, and the kids are
Speaker 1: spending an enormous amount of time on it and on
Speaker 1: their phones and uh and and the time they're spending
Speaker 1: doing that, they're spending a lot less time either going
Speaker 1: outside and playing and learning how to interact with one another. Uh.
Speaker 1: Or you know the days of you know, just going
Speaker 1: on a playground and just playing some ball, or you know,
Speaker 1: going out there and throwing a couple of sweatshirts as first, second,
Speaker 1: and third base and playing stickball versus you have an
Speaker 1: organized umpires and selling concessions and travel ball and all that.
Speaker 1: I know things have changed, but I'm old school, so
Speaker 1: we lost some of that. But if the kids have changed,
Speaker 1: it's not the kids fault. If I asked you the
Speaker 1: question about Tennessee, I want to ask you the question
Speaker 1: about Auburn. If you could go back and recoach any
Speaker 1: game at Auburn, which game would it be? And why
Speaker 1: is there one that immediately comes to mind? Um, you
Speaker 1: know it doesn't come right to mind. I don't know
Speaker 1: that I could replay the Virginia game again and I
Speaker 1: think we did the things that you're supposed to do
Speaker 1: down the stretch to win that game. Um. Obviously, was
Speaker 1: Virginia better than you? Is it easier if you lose
Speaker 1: to a team like you said, Duke was better than
Speaker 1: Tennessee the year you might have been able to go
Speaker 1: to the Final four? Do you think that uv a
Speaker 1: team was better if you played a hundred times, would
Speaker 1: they beat you more than they than you beat them?
Speaker 1: I think we I think it'd be pretty down close.
Speaker 1: I really do. UM. And And obviously at the end
Speaker 1: of the Virginia game, we had a couple of really
Speaker 1: tough calls. UM that that that prevented us from getting
Speaker 1: that call wind up being factors at the at the end,
Speaker 1: um UM. Maybe the last game that I that I
Speaker 1: coached against Miami, UM, we were the better team, we
Speaker 1: got upset by Amy. UM And I would have done
Speaker 1: a number of different things there, um differently, And so
Speaker 1: probably the last game I coached would would be the
Speaker 1: game that I would coach differently. What um, If you
Speaker 1: win and that you've been to the final four, how
Speaker 1: much different is your life if you win a national
Speaker 1: championship or you don't win a national championship in terms
Speaker 1: of the way you feel about yourself. Great question. Nothing, Um,
Speaker 1: wouldn't affect me at all, but the perception would be
Speaker 1: enormously different. Um, you get to the final four, you
Speaker 1: win a national championship, your perception is different. What's your
Speaker 1: perception of Bruce Pearl. Your perception of Bruce Pearl is
Speaker 1: what I did at Tennessee. You know six and tournaments,
Speaker 1: you know a couple of Sweet six teams and the
Speaker 1: lead eight one game in the final four. What's your
Speaker 1: perception me at Auburn. It's it's based in these championships,
Speaker 1: and and and and things along those lines, Um, and
Speaker 1: and and the more you do, the more your perception
Speaker 1: changes it. It really doesn't. It would not change my
Speaker 1: perception of me. Um. I'm just I don't. I don't
Speaker 1: see myself UM in that same light. UM, others perhaps do.
Speaker 1: UM And UM, I'm just trying to. I'm trying to
Speaker 1: win the next one. I'm just trying to. I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna try to win the next one. And you know,
Speaker 1: when I when I when I retire and I look
Speaker 1: back on it, UM, then all of a sudden, I
Speaker 1: think those championships will matter. UM more than they actually
Speaker 1: do right now and then and then then the biggest
Speaker 1: question would be, you know, how did I make How
Speaker 1: did I impact my coaches and their families lives? How
Speaker 1: do they impact my community? Did I make my community better?
Speaker 1: Did I that was I generous? Did I help people
Speaker 1: that were in need? Um? You know, did I help
Speaker 1: my student athletes become men and become better fathers? And um?
Speaker 1: And then did I utilize my platform, clay to try
Speaker 1: to make a difference in the world. And you know
Speaker 1: that's you know, one of the things that is I
Speaker 1: get myself in some trouble sometimes is I'm very active
Speaker 1: in social media about things involving Israel in the Middle East.
Speaker 1: And um, I get involved and on the political side
Speaker 1: of things because as a Jewish Man, when we said
Speaker 1: never again, there are limitations to what I can do
Speaker 1: to ensure that will be never again. But if there
Speaker 1: are atrocities taking place in China or in Ukraine or
Speaker 1: in the Middle East, that I cannot be silent, even
Speaker 1: if I'm perceived to be on the wrong side of
Speaker 1: an issue, or if my fans or people that you
Speaker 1: know in basketball say, look, you need to really worry
Speaker 1: about coaching. Uh. If you were so worried about that,
Speaker 1: you're beat in Miami. Instead, you're worried about the wrong stuff.
Speaker 1: It's not that I'm worried about it. It's just that
Speaker 1: for the people that are worried about it that don't
Speaker 1: have my platform, my voice, can give them hope that
Speaker 1: there are people talking about it. There are people that
Speaker 1: are pointing it out. There are people that are calling
Speaker 1: it out and trying to trying to prevent some of
Speaker 1: these things from you know, from happening from from from
Speaker 1: our country getting into a awful treaty, whether I ran,
Speaker 1: and putting billions of dollars into the pockets of a
Speaker 1: country and a leadership that is the sworn enemy of
Speaker 1: the State of israel I, just as as as as
Speaker 1: an ally of of of of the United States and
Speaker 1: one of its greatest allies. I don't even see how
Speaker 1: that's possible unless you really really believe that the people
Speaker 1: that you're sitting across the table from are telling you
Speaker 1: the truth that they really don't care about ballistic missiles
Speaker 1: are getting a nuclear weapon, or they really don't care
Speaker 1: about trying to find a way to sell their oil
Speaker 1: uh through the Russians and having that be Uh. An
Speaker 1: absolutely back door for the for the Russians to be
Speaker 1: able to avoid all these economic sanctions that we're putting
Speaker 1: on them and Iran. And oh, we're letting the Russians
Speaker 1: and the Chinese negotiate a nuclear treaty with Iran that's
Speaker 1: going to affect all of our Abraham Accord allies and Israel.
Speaker 1: We're we're doing it. Oh. And by the way, we're
Speaker 1: not allowed in the room like in other words, we
Speaker 1: go to Vienna, like the American delegation, we sit in
Speaker 1: another room. You are, so you are so well informed
Speaker 1: on this, by the way, and and I'm nodding along
Speaker 1: as you're speaking about all this, uh, and it makes
Speaker 1: me want to unpack this a little bit. So let
Speaker 1: me start here. We did you go to Israel for
Speaker 1: the first time? We talked early on in this conversation.
Speaker 1: I'm Clay Travis, He's Bruce Pearl. This is wins and Losses.
Speaker 1: We talked about growing up for you, uh, in Boston
Speaker 1: and going to Boston College, being Jewish, experiencing what that
Speaker 1: was like, the divisions of Boston, and you're a kid
Speaker 1: growing up bringing people together through sports. When did you
Speaker 1: go to Israel for the first time, and I know
Speaker 1: you have, uh, you have coached in athletics in Israel.
Speaker 1: Uh what has that experience been like for you in
Speaker 1: terms of formulating and defining you as an adult man class?
Speaker 1: I'm grateful that you asked that question. The first time
Speaker 1: I went to Israel was in nineteen sixty seven when
Speaker 1: I was in Boston, sitting in the den of my
Speaker 1: grandfather as seven years old, and he's watching TV. So
Speaker 1: I'm actually not in Israel. I'm actually in Boston. My
Speaker 1: grandfather was a plumber. It's a strong man, a tough man,
Speaker 1: and uh, a quiet man, a man that kept kosher,
Speaker 1: that went to services on a regular basis. Um, uh
Speaker 1: my idol, and uh he was weeping watching the television set.
Speaker 1: In nineteen seven, Papa went to bed really early because
Speaker 1: he got up really early every every night. So after supper,
Speaker 1: Papa would wash up, and very shortly after supper and
Speaker 1: the sun went down, Papa would go to bed. But
Speaker 1: but this night he was up late and he was crying.
Speaker 1: In a seven year old I walked up to Pappa, said,
Speaker 1: Pappa was wrong, what are you crying about? He papped
Speaker 1: me on his lap and we watched the news, and
Speaker 1: it was it was the Sixth Day War, and he
Speaker 1: told me about Israel. He told me how important the
Speaker 1: state of Israel was, and that if Israel had existed
Speaker 1: when his family was fleeing Ukraine, that if Israel was
Speaker 1: was existed back in the twenties and the thirties and
Speaker 1: the forties, the six million Jews that were murdered in
Speaker 1: the Holocaust may have only been a million because they
Speaker 1: would have had a place to go and be safe.
Speaker 1: Many tried to get into this country. My puppet emigrated
Speaker 1: to this country in nineteen thirty two. He was fourteen
Speaker 1: years old. He became a citizen when he when was
Speaker 1: when he when he was in his mid thirties, and
Speaker 1: he just was afraid to go to sleep because he
Speaker 1: was afraid that when he woke up, Israel would not
Speaker 1: be there. Because he explained how Israel's was surrounded by
Speaker 1: enemies that wanted her. They wanted Jerusalem. They wanted it
Speaker 1: from the river to the sea, and they wanted it
Speaker 1: from sixty seven. They wanted it in seventy three during
Speaker 1: the Keypool War. And you know what, some of them
Speaker 1: still want it now and they can't have it. When
Speaker 1: did you go to Israel for the first time physically. Yep.
Speaker 1: I'm almost embarrassed to say that it wasn't until two
Speaker 1: thousand and nine. Um, why did it take you that long?
Speaker 1: And why did you go for the first time? Because
Speaker 1: my plan was to either join the army here in
Speaker 1: this country, uh and serve for a year, or actually
Speaker 1: go to Israel and serve for one year. That was
Speaker 1: my plan. And then as I as I mentioned to
Speaker 1: you before, I'm a twenty one year old senior Boston
Speaker 1: College still with the plan of either going to United
Speaker 1: States military or the Israeli married. I didn't hadn't decide
Speaker 1: which one when Dr Tom Davis offered me a job
Speaker 1: to go within the Stanford in March of my senior year,
Speaker 1: and so that thought of serving either my country or
Speaker 1: Israel um went away and I never went back. I
Speaker 1: went back in two thousand and nine where I coached
Speaker 1: in the Maccabi Games. I coached my son Stephen, and
Speaker 1: Uh we won the gold medal. We beat Israel and
Speaker 1: overtime in the gold medal game. And thank god, it's
Speaker 1: really hard to beat Israel and Israel, but we managed
Speaker 1: to do it gime of basketball and m and since
Speaker 1: that time. I've been Israel a couple more times. I'm
Speaker 1: going again in May, and I'm going again in August
Speaker 1: with my team. I'm bringing the Auburn basketball team to
Speaker 1: Israel because I want my players to see the diversity,
Speaker 1: to see that it is not an apartheid state, to
Speaker 1: see that about half the population in the state of
Speaker 1: Israel are almost as dark as they are, and I
Speaker 1: want them to unlearn some of the lies that they've
Speaker 1: been told. Um and then maybe someday they want to
Speaker 1: come back there and play basketball, because, other than the NBA,
Speaker 1: one of the one of the one of the best
Speaker 1: places to play professionally is in Israel. What was the
Speaker 1: experience like to win with your son in two thousand
Speaker 1: nine in Israel? Danny Grunfeld was on the team Ernie's
Speaker 1: sun Um, my son Stephen. We had some great friends
Speaker 1: that were on that team. Todd Gold then, who was
Speaker 1: a new head coach at Florida, played for me on
Speaker 1: that team. Todd was on assistance. Yeah, he was one
Speaker 1: of his assistance at Auburn when I got the Auburn job.
Speaker 1: Todd is a very very dear friend. Is gonna do
Speaker 1: a great job for the gate is um and um man.
Speaker 1: It was just an honor to where the USA, you know,
Speaker 1: and it was honored for me to take those young
Speaker 1: men over there and learn more about their roots. And
Speaker 1: you know. And and again, I have a love from
Speaker 1: my country, the United States of America that that that
Speaker 1: is different than my love for Israel. I'm grateful for Israel. UM.
Speaker 1: I owe everything to this country. I would die for
Speaker 1: this country. UM. I probably would give my life for
Speaker 1: Israel as well. UM. But I want I think the
Speaker 1: way you get to feel that way is by going
Speaker 1: over there and experiencing it. And unfortunately, Clay, just like
Speaker 1: so many things that you hear and read, it's it's
Speaker 1: people want to know the truth about it, and it's
Speaker 1: so very, very difficult to get the truth. I'll just
Speaker 1: put it to you in this in this context, there
Speaker 1: are nine million people in Israel. There are six million
Speaker 1: Jewish people, and there are three million Arabs living in
Speaker 1: the State of Israel. About two million of those Arabs
Speaker 1: are you are Israeli citizens, and most of them live
Speaker 1: far better quality of life than the Arabs that live
Speaker 1: in the surrounding countries in Egypt or Lebanon or Syria
Speaker 1: or Iraq or Iran or whatever. There might be a
Speaker 1: duct in Jews if any they're not allowed. Jews are allowed.
Speaker 1: I want to go. I've never been to Israel. I mean,
Speaker 1: I love to travel. I would love to experience. It's
Speaker 1: it's on my list to go. Uh, you know I
Speaker 1: was raised. Yeah, guess what next? Next? May? Next? May.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you know Governor Billy very well,
Speaker 1: I do. I do. He's an auburn guy. I'm sure
Speaker 1: that's how you do. Yeah, and he's an awesome guy
Speaker 1: and um, you know, depending on how things are in
Speaker 1: his state, because he would never leave unless things were
Speaker 1: in a great spot. Billy wants to come to Israel
Speaker 1: with us as well. You did you need to come
Speaker 1: on that trip? I would. I'd love to so love
Speaker 1: uh to walk where Jesus walked and uh with you
Speaker 1: and your your family and uh, that'd be such a
Speaker 1: cool trip. That's May of May have twenty three, Yes, sir,
Speaker 1: I'm in. I'm gonna. I'm gonna. I'm literally writing it
Speaker 1: down right now, May have twenty three. I want to
Speaker 1: make that trip. I'd love to go. I've never been. Um,
Speaker 1: it's a place that I've always wanted to go and
Speaker 1: you obviously would be able to help show us around
Speaker 1: a couple more questions. First of all, I appreciate it
Speaker 1: all the time. I know you're at the Final four.
Speaker 1: There's a ton of things going on down there. I'm
Speaker 1: Clay Travis, He's Bruce Pearl. It's wins and losses. Um,
Speaker 1: you mentioned coaching in in uh in Israel with Stephen
Speaker 1: who's on your coaching staff. Now, great guy, uh maybe
Speaker 1: one day will be a head coach himself. What advice
Speaker 1: would you give everybody out there? I coach little league baseball,
Speaker 1: a little league basketball. I've done it all with my boys.
Speaker 1: How do you coach your son? What advice would you
Speaker 1: give for people out there who I met? A lot
Speaker 1: of them are listening right now. How do you coach
Speaker 1: your son? How? How did you find it? Not only
Speaker 1: you know, like I'm sure you uh, you know in
Speaker 1: in college right where he's on the team with you
Speaker 1: at the University of Tennessee. And how is it more
Speaker 1: difficult to coach or have UH coach your son when
Speaker 1: he's a member of the team, or more difficult to
Speaker 1: be the head coach and have your son as an
Speaker 1: assistant coach on the staff. I'm curious what the dynamics
Speaker 1: of that are. Like, Yeah, well it is hard to
Speaker 1: coach your son. Uh it is way easier to let
Speaker 1: somebody else coach him. Uh, it is hard. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: I I love to tell this story, but you know, UM,
Speaker 1: whether it was when he was a kid or not,
Speaker 1: you know, Stephen always threw his bat, he filed out
Speaker 1: when we lost or or or or or or or
Speaker 1: he cried when we when he filed out or when
Speaker 1: we lost. UM. And I always tell parents I'd rather
Speaker 1: teach him, I'd rather try and teach him to care
Speaker 1: a little less than the care. Um. The kids that
Speaker 1: did know whether we what are lost and what the
Speaker 1: score was, and I didn't know whether to be happy
Speaker 1: or sad, win or lose. Those kids I had a
Speaker 1: real problem with. UM. I didn't have a problem with
Speaker 1: a kid that threw his bad or cried we got beat.
Speaker 1: I could we could manage that, We could channel that
Speaker 1: that anger. UM. The advice would be this, just trying
Speaker 1: not to teach your treat your kid worse than you
Speaker 1: treat the other kids. Try and be fair because although
Speaker 1: some will criticize you for favoring your kid, in reality,
Speaker 1: we don't We actually are harder on our kid. He
Speaker 1: should be playing shortstoppable, playing at second base. He should
Speaker 1: be and third. We bat him sixth um, because we're
Speaker 1: afraid that, you know, maybe somebody would accuse us of favoritism. Um,
Speaker 1: and so trying not to be harder on him. I
Speaker 1: remember one time, after Stephen didn't play very well, I
Speaker 1: got in the car. I said, who do you want
Speaker 1: to talk to your dad or your coach? He said,
Speaker 1: I don't want to talk to either one of you.
Speaker 1: That is fantastic. Um. What about coaching with your son
Speaker 1: compared to coaching your son now he's on your staff?
Speaker 1: How is that different? Easier? It's a lot easier, Um,
Speaker 1: you know, and and and and and and look, no
Speaker 1: matter what your life's greatest accomplishments are, they are the
Speaker 1: greatest accomplishments because of not what you achieved, but who
Speaker 1: you achieved them with. And so that's why, you know,
Speaker 1: weddings are certain celebrations of life, births of old um.
Speaker 1: You know, things winning a championship, when you do it
Speaker 1: with your coaches and your players and your wife and
Speaker 1: your kids, they just it's so much more meaningful. And
Speaker 1: so it is awesome coaching with Stephen, and he is.
Speaker 1: He's ready to be a great head coach someday. And
Speaker 1: I'm open he's gonna be the next coach at Auburn.
Speaker 1: If you how many more year sixty two? I'm sure
Speaker 1: you're looking out now into the future. How many more
Speaker 1: years do you think you can coach at a high level?
Speaker 1: You mentioned when you came back to Auburn you thought
Speaker 1: for a couple of years. Hey, I'm not sure if
Speaker 1: I'm going to get the change, get the turn. You
Speaker 1: obviously have things rolling in terms of sec success. How
Speaker 1: many years do you see into the future that you
Speaker 1: think you can coach at a high level? Clay, as
Speaker 1: long as I can stay healthy and I can continue
Speaker 1: to compete, uh, and and give our kids a chance
Speaker 1: to be successful. Um, I'll coach, um, but I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna be one of those guys that's coaching um. UM.
Speaker 1: You know in my seventies, for example, no chance. Um.
Speaker 1: So I've got an eight year contract. I'm sixty two. UM,
Speaker 1: I don't know that. I don't know that I make
Speaker 1: it all eight um. But I don't worry about Just
Speaker 1: take it one year at a time, take it one
Speaker 1: day at a time. But I can tell you in
Speaker 1: my crystal ball that I have to make up for
Speaker 1: what I lack in all the things that I lack
Speaker 1: with effort and energy. And so as long as I
Speaker 1: could put forth the effort and energy and we're competitive,
Speaker 1: I'll keep coaching. You have one game that you can
Speaker 1: pick anyone to coach for you, your life is on
Speaker 1: the line. Which coach are you picking and why to
Speaker 1: win that game? I always think this is a fun
Speaker 1: question for coaches. You can't pick yourself. Who would you pick?
Speaker 1: Who do you think would be that guy that you
Speaker 1: would select? Yeah, if, first of all, there's no chance
Speaker 1: I picked myself and my life depended on it, it'd
Speaker 1: be Rippettino. I think Rippettino. Um is the best I've
Speaker 1: ever done up against um. And the reason why is
Speaker 1: he knows what he's doing. But he also knows what
Speaker 1: you're doing, almost better than you know what you're doing.
Speaker 1: He knows why you're doing it, and he knows how
Speaker 1: to prevent you from doing it. Um. He's been He's
Speaker 1: been my toughest matchup. Last couple of questions here for
Speaker 1: and I appreciate the time. If you don't get that
Speaker 1: job at Stanford, if Dr Tom Davis doesn't say, Hey,
Speaker 1: get on this plane with me. We're going to Palo Alto.
Speaker 1: You mentioned that you might have gone into the service.
Speaker 1: Do you think you would have found your way still
Speaker 1: back to coaching or do you think your life would
Speaker 1: have gone in a completely different direction? And where do
Speaker 1: you think it might have ended up if coaching was
Speaker 1: not the answer. Um, I hope I would have gone
Speaker 1: to the military, and then that may have sent me
Speaker 1: in a direction. Um, But it didn't happen that way. Again,
Speaker 1: that wasn't God's plan. UM. I do believe that I
Speaker 1: was supposed to do what I'm doing. I do, But
Speaker 1: if I hadn't gotten too coaching right then I don't
Speaker 1: know that door where or how and when that door
Speaker 1: would have been opened for me again. And so I
Speaker 1: would have just taken a um, a job, a regular job. UM.
Speaker 1: I have no doubt that in that job, I wouldn't
Speaker 1: have found a way to win. I wouldn't have found
Speaker 1: a way to be successful. UM. I don't care whether
Speaker 1: we're playing pick up or whether we're playing hop scotch. Um,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna try to win and um and uh, the
Speaker 1: only confidence that I have is that is that I'll
Speaker 1: work to try to find a way. And by the way,
Speaker 1: I'm okay with not winning. I'm okay with losing. I
Speaker 1: get that. Um, I just I just have a lot
Speaker 1: more fun winning. Everybody everybody knows that feeling. What do
Speaker 1: you hope when you hang up the whistle, so to speak,
Speaker 1: and your career is over as a coach? What do
Speaker 1: you hope people think about Bruce Pearl as a coach?
Speaker 1: You mentioned I think it's so well said that I
Speaker 1: remember having this conversation. I'm sure you've met him at
Speaker 1: some point with Derek Dooley and uh and he said,
Speaker 1: you know, when I was twenty five years old and
Speaker 1: I decided to walk out of the law office and
Speaker 1: go into coaching, getting to be the head coach of
Speaker 1: the University of Tennessee would have been a really successful tenure.
Speaker 1: But if people look at it and say, well, I'm
Speaker 1: only going to think about three years that he was
Speaker 1: the coach at Tennessee, they don't think about the path
Speaker 1: that you had to get to to get to that point.
Speaker 1: And I always think that's instructive for everybody out there listening.
Speaker 1: People say, you know, hey, when you take over Rush Limbaugh,
Speaker 1: what if you fail I'm like, well, first of all,
Speaker 1: you can't fear failure. Uh and and the opportunity was
Speaker 1: too good to pass up, and the influence was too
Speaker 1: good to pass up. But if it doesn't work out,
Speaker 1: it doesn't work out. You know, I had to do
Speaker 1: a lot of things right to get to that position,
Speaker 1: to take that job, And I think if you only succeed,
Speaker 1: it probably means you aren't trying to stretch yourself too far.
Speaker 1: And I say all of that to ask you the question.
Speaker 1: You're sixty two. Now you may coach for eight more years,
Speaker 1: like you said, make it into seventy. What do you
Speaker 1: hope people take again? To your point, people may only
Speaker 1: define you if they've only been paying attention to Bruce
Speaker 1: Pearl at Auburn. They think one thing if they only
Speaker 1: paid attention to Bruce Pearl at Tennessee. But there's probably
Speaker 1: some people listening right now who watched your team's play
Speaker 1: at Southern Indiana and they've known you for most of
Speaker 1: your profession nor career. What do you hope people take
Speaker 1: from your coaching career? Well, I would hope play that
Speaker 1: they would take um the approach that that he was
Speaker 1: more than just a coach, that he took his job
Speaker 1: as a coach and a teacher in the game of
Speaker 1: basketball very seriously, and he was and he was very
Speaker 1: good at it. His team's won championships. UM. Is there
Speaker 1: a chance that the runs at Southern Indiana or Wisconsin, Milwaukee,
Speaker 1: at Tennessee and at Auburn were as good a run
Speaker 1: as they had had in their history? Is that possible? Uh?
Speaker 1: Coach Barnes right now has a has a real opportunity
Speaker 1: to to get there. With coach Meyers, I didn't. I
Speaker 1: wasn't there as long UM we had a good run
Speaker 1: that we were where we were there though, there's no question, UM.
Speaker 1: And so that's important, but probably more important than the
Speaker 1: success on the basketball court is that he cared about
Speaker 1: things UM that had nothing to do with basketball. He
Speaker 1: carried about his players, He cared about his staff, compared
Speaker 1: about their successes, UM, their preparation for whatever else was like,
Speaker 1: cared about the community and worked really hard in the
Speaker 1: community to make it better. UM. And and and loved
Speaker 1: our country and and and you know, like I said,
Speaker 1: would have would would do the things that a citizen
Speaker 1: UM would do, UM to help make our communities and
Speaker 1: make our country UM. And the best we possibly can
Speaker 1: and so UM, things like being a good like you.
Speaker 1: You had said to me, you said you were aware
Speaker 1: that my family is close, and you judge me based
Speaker 1: on You've got great kids and you know you could
Speaker 1: see their relationship. That's that's important to me. You know
Speaker 1: that people would would would respect me as a as
Speaker 1: a man, UH, as as a father, UM as a husband. UM.
Speaker 1: And you know I want the whole thing you know
Speaker 1: I want. I want, I want, you know I want
Speaker 1: that I can't. I don't worry about what I can't
Speaker 1: control and um, and I don't worry about what people
Speaker 1: think because people are going to think what they think. UM.
Speaker 1: I I probably care more about the people that I
Speaker 1: either respect and admire. I probably care what they think
Speaker 1: more than I do, more than I really do what
Speaker 1: everybody else thinks. I wrote down May of three, I
Speaker 1: hope that we can make that trip. I really would
Speaker 1: genuinely love to go to Israel, spend that time over there,
Speaker 1: bringing my family, have that experience. Uh. Bruce Pearl, you
Speaker 1: guys can tell I'm a fan. Does fantastic work in
Speaker 1: many different facets. Uh. Both that all the places he's coached,
Speaker 1: but all the lives that he is influenced and also
Speaker 1: pretty fun guy. Appreciate you, guys. This has been wins
Speaker 1: and losses. I am Clay Travisy is Auburn men's basketball
Speaker 1: coach Bruce Pearl. If you enjoyed this one, check out
Speaker 1: some of the forty plus other conversations, and thank you
Speaker 1: for spending time with us.