1
00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,160
Speaker 1: Welcome in Wins and Losses. I am Clay Travis, and

2
00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:05,880
Speaker 1: we have a fantastic guest, a guy I have been

3
00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:07,680
Speaker 1: a fan of. I'm gonna be straight up right at

4
00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:12,160
Speaker 1: the top. Auburn men's basketball coach Bruce Pearl is with us,

5
00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:16,120
Speaker 1: and coach you are down right now at the Final

6
00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:19,239
Speaker 1: four in New Orleans, and you know these wins and

7
00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:21,599
Speaker 1: lost his conversations. The hope is that people are going

8
00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:23,840
Speaker 1: to enjoy them for a long time to come. But

9
00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:26,520
Speaker 1: just kind of setting in context here, and so I'll

10
00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:29,720
Speaker 1: start with this question. What does it feel like to

11
00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:32,640
Speaker 1: go to the final four? What does it feel like

12
00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:35,559
Speaker 1: to almost go to the final four? What is the

13
00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:39,519
Speaker 1: experience like to coach in the n C Double A tournament?

14
00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:42,640
Speaker 1: And how long does it take when you either win

15
00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:45,199
Speaker 1: or lose in the n C Double A tournament to

16
00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:47,839
Speaker 1: get over the experience? If that makes sense to kind

17
00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:50,879
Speaker 1: of start with contextually. Hey, Clay, if this is the

18
00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:53,559
Speaker 1: first question, right, we're gonna need more than an hour

19
00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:58,400
Speaker 1: because and I think the wins and lost this thing.

20
00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:01,319
Speaker 1: When you bring Bruce Pearl on the show, you get

21
00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:03,400
Speaker 1: all that. You get the winnars and the losses, which

22
00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:08,400
Speaker 1: I think it's really really good. Um. You it's it's

23
00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:11,280
Speaker 1: completely different. First of all, the Final Four is the

24
00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:16,000
Speaker 1: National Association of Basketball Coaches UM meetings. It's our annual meeting.

25
00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:18,920
Speaker 1: So when you're not playing in the Final Four, you're

26
00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:22,679
Speaker 1: basically hob nobbing with your fellow wizards, uh, catching up

27
00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:26,959
Speaker 1: on how bad the officiating was, all your long rule changes, UH,

28
00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:31,320
Speaker 1: you know, eating too much um and uh and and

29
00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:34,480
Speaker 1: and and you know, kind of celebrating your seasons, having meetings,

30
00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:37,280
Speaker 1: you know, looking at you know, uh, the different apparel

31
00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:39,679
Speaker 1: and the different equipment and all the different things that

32
00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:44,200
Speaker 1: out there, things that you would do at conventions. UM.

33
00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:48,400
Speaker 1: If you're in it, UM, you're on a magical carpet ride,

34
00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:52,880
Speaker 1: and you're wondering how in the world did a bum

35
00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:56,400
Speaker 1: like me get to be on a stage like this

36
00:01:57,200 --> 00:01:59,720
Speaker 1: and be playing for a national championship. And you you

37
00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:02,760
Speaker 1: just stop and thank God and for the thanks for

38
00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:05,680
Speaker 1: the blessing and and um, and you just hope that

39
00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:08,600
Speaker 1: you are up to the task to help your team

40
00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:12,919
Speaker 1: win a national championship. And then when you don't get here,

41
00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:15,919
Speaker 1: but you almost got here and maybe should have could

42
00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:20,440
Speaker 1: have gotten here, UM, you replay every play, every call

43
00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:23,000
Speaker 1: every preparation. I should have done this, I could have

44
00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:26,280
Speaker 1: done that. If we did this, we could possibly be

45
00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:29,960
Speaker 1: still playing. But I think when you do that, that's

46
00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:33,040
Speaker 1: how you get better. Um, because you know, I'm not

47
00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:36,160
Speaker 1: gonna sit still. I'm gonna I'm gonna reload. I'm gonna

48
00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:39,520
Speaker 1: rebuild and I'm going to grow as a coach because

49
00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:41,320
Speaker 1: I want to I want to get back here and

50
00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:44,520
Speaker 1: I want to win one. So I got so many

51
00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:46,960
Speaker 1: things that I want to dive into, but I just

52
00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:50,919
Speaker 1: want to start with your career. You mentioned how fortunate

53
00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:53,079
Speaker 1: you feel to make it to a Final four, which

54
00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:55,640
Speaker 1: you did with Auburn. You were close a lot of

55
00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:59,520
Speaker 1: times with Tennessee. But when you were coaching at Southern

56
00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:02,840
Speaker 1: Indiana and I think you started off at Stanford and

57
00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:05,600
Speaker 1: then you were at Iowa and you're grinding and you're

58
00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:09,800
Speaker 1: working as hard as you can. Um, sometimes you don't

59
00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:13,000
Speaker 1: ever I'm curious, when you're at Southern Indiana and you're

60
00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:16,119
Speaker 1: a coach and you win a national championship there, did

61
00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:19,120
Speaker 1: you ever think were there times where you thought, man,

62
00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:21,960
Speaker 1: I'm never going to get that big job. Because the

63
00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,519
Speaker 1: reasonly we talk wins and losses and why I love

64
00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:29,120
Speaker 1: the concept of this discussion. Coaches. There's so much focus

65
00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:33,000
Speaker 1: and you know this on success. You have success, people

66
00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:35,080
Speaker 1: want to hear about how amazing it is, what does

67
00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:38,840
Speaker 1: it feel like? But I feel like you oftentimes learn

68
00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:42,160
Speaker 1: more from the losses along the way. And I've talked

69
00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:43,920
Speaker 1: about things that have gone in my career that I

70
00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:47,040
Speaker 1: didn't anticipate. I'm sure you have had, like you said,

71
00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:50,560
Speaker 1: so many different ones. When you are coaching at Southern

72
00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:53,640
Speaker 1: Indiana and you turn on the television and March Madness

73
00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:55,920
Speaker 1: is on and you see a coach k or you

74
00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:58,200
Speaker 1: see you Roy Williams, and you see guys who have

75
00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:01,040
Speaker 1: been doing it for a long time. Did you feel

76
00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:03,640
Speaker 1: I've told this story before, coach where I remember going

77
00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:07,360
Speaker 1: to Triple A baseball uh and watching a game and

78
00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:10,480
Speaker 1: this is probably fifteen years ago or so for me

79
00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:13,600
Speaker 1: now maybe ten where I thought, Man, I'm in Triple

80
00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:16,679
Speaker 1: A in my career. Right now, it seems so close

81
00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:19,080
Speaker 1: to get to the major leagues. I can see a path,

82
00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:21,400
Speaker 1: but I don't know if I'll ever get that opportunity.

83
00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:24,200
Speaker 1: Do you ever have those thoughts along the way as

84
00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:27,240
Speaker 1: you climbed yourself up towards a guy who could coach

85
00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:32,799
Speaker 1: in the n C Double A Tournament. Yes and no. Um,

86
00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:36,400
Speaker 1: here's this is what comes to my mind when you're

87
00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:39,360
Speaker 1: asking that question. When you and when you were in

88
00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:43,760
Speaker 1: Nashville and you were doing sports talk radio in the afternoon, Um,

89
00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:47,800
Speaker 1: you were trying to be the absolute best show in

90
00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:51,520
Speaker 1: that region, uh, for those three hours. And I don't

91
00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:55,120
Speaker 1: think you were too terribly worried about anything other than

92
00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:58,080
Speaker 1: being the best at what you were doing at that time.

93
00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:01,520
Speaker 1: And one of the things me has helped make me

94
00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:05,960
Speaker 1: successful every place I've been, I bought. I was all in.

95
00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:10,520
Speaker 1: I wasn't leasing, I wasn't renting, I wasn't one foot

96
00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:13,479
Speaker 1: in and one foot out looking for the next best thing.

97
00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:17,440
Speaker 1: And I think so many times people in life, especially

98
00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:20,599
Speaker 1: in their early stages, it's okay to think big, it's

99
00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:24,920
Speaker 1: okay to dream, but take advantage of what you got,

100
00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:27,480
Speaker 1: what's right there in front of you, and do an

101
00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:32,520
Speaker 1: amazing job and put yourself in position for other opportunities

102
00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:36,640
Speaker 1: to present itself. So. Um, the reason why I won

103
00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:40,440
Speaker 1: championships every place I've been is I treated it like

104
00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:42,719
Speaker 1: it was my last job and like I wanted to

105
00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,400
Speaker 1: be at that place forever. And I truly did. And

106
00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:47,960
Speaker 1: when I had to leave because it was time to

107
00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:52,720
Speaker 1: leave Division two or go for mid major to Tennessee. Um, yeah,

108
00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:54,760
Speaker 1: I got the Ziggie at Tennessee, so that really wasn't

109
00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:58,559
Speaker 1: my choice. It was hard to leave. It was hard

110
00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:01,200
Speaker 1: to get in the car and pull out and leave

111
00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:02,960
Speaker 1: my wife and my kids and my family to go

112
00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:06,080
Speaker 1: to that next best thing because I was bought and

113
00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:08,559
Speaker 1: I was all in. And I think so many people

114
00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:11,640
Speaker 1: make the mistake of just not doing a great job

115
00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:14,200
Speaker 1: with what they got and get guess what, as a result,

116
00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:16,839
Speaker 1: they don't get to move on. They don't get to

117
00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:18,599
Speaker 1: do what you've done, they don't get to do what

118
00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:21,440
Speaker 1: I've done. Now, in answer to your crash, you directly,

119
00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:26,440
Speaker 1: there was only one day a year, maybe two, when

120
00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:29,360
Speaker 1: I ever thought about man. I remember when Tom Iso

121
00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:31,560
Speaker 1: and I were assistance. He was at Michigan State and

122
00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:34,480
Speaker 1: I was at Iowa, and Tom's head coach at Michigan State,

123
00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:38,119
Speaker 1: and I'm the head coach at Southern Indiana and and

124
00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:40,919
Speaker 1: and the only time was on selection of Sunday or

125
00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:43,240
Speaker 1: the first round the answer that tournament. When I was

126
00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:46,040
Speaker 1: in Division two, I'd watch that day and I'd say,

127
00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:48,400
Speaker 1: you know what I want to I do want to

128
00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:51,080
Speaker 1: get there. I want to get there and and then

129
00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:53,440
Speaker 1: But with the acception of that day, that was the

130
00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:55,800
Speaker 1: only day it ever occurred to me to try to

131
00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:59,600
Speaker 1: be someplace else. When you were at Boston College, I

132
00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:03,240
Speaker 1: think were even the mascot. I remember hearing that story.

133
00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:07,320
Speaker 1: When did you decide, Hey, coaching basketball is something I

134
00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:10,240
Speaker 1: might like to do. Uh? And when did you start

135
00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:12,360
Speaker 1: to think, hey, this is going to be potentially a

136
00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:15,480
Speaker 1: career I'll pursue. Well, it's a long story, but I'm

137
00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:17,560
Speaker 1: trying to be brief. So I was a pretty good

138
00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:20,440
Speaker 1: athlete in high school. Uh. I had a career ending

139
00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:23,840
Speaker 1: knee injury in high school. Boston College was the best

140
00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:27,400
Speaker 1: athletic program in New England. I grew up in Boston,

141
00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:30,440
Speaker 1: and so I went to BC and walked on the

142
00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:33,440
Speaker 1: basketball team and got cut, just got a bad wheel.

143
00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:37,080
Speaker 1: But I met Dr Tom davis Um. When I was

144
00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:41,320
Speaker 1: in high school, I was coaching fifth graders, I was umpiron,

145
00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:44,160
Speaker 1: I was refereeing, I was always coaching. I was honestly,

146
00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:46,960
Speaker 1: never did I think I would ever wasn't trying to

147
00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:50,480
Speaker 1: be a coach. I went to BC school management marketing, economics,

148
00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:52,560
Speaker 1: political science. I was gonna go out and get a

149
00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:56,200
Speaker 1: real job my senior year after working for Tom Davis

150
00:07:56,240 --> 00:08:00,760
Speaker 1: and every capacity possible, including as a manager, an assistant

151
00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:04,200
Speaker 1: director of this or that. I hosted Patrick Ewing on

152
00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:06,720
Speaker 1: his official visit as a as a as a member

153
00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:09,560
Speaker 1: of the team. UM. Tom Davis called me and he

154
00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:12,520
Speaker 1: said come over to the house. And I'm like, oh, Ship,

155
00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:13,920
Speaker 1: what I do wrong? Last time I had to come

156
00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:16,840
Speaker 1: over the house, I got caught streaking across campus and

157
00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:18,440
Speaker 1: he found out about it and he saved me to

158
00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:21,960
Speaker 1: the students and I'm like, well, I haven't straight across

159
00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:24,600
Speaker 1: campus in years. And sure enough, I'm driving to his

160
00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:26,360
Speaker 1: house and oh my god, he's leaving to take a

161
00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:28,720
Speaker 1: job and he's gonna ask me to go with him.

162
00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:31,240
Speaker 1: And sure enough, Clay, that's what he did. I was

163
00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:35,880
Speaker 1: a senior BC in March, graduating in June, and I

164
00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:38,679
Speaker 1: went to Stanford to Tom Davis as an assistant coach.

165
00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:41,160
Speaker 1: And not one day that I worked for him because

166
00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:43,040
Speaker 1: I wanted to be thought i'd be a basketball coach.

167
00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:46,160
Speaker 1: Not at all. I just love BC. I love BC basketball.

168
00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:49,120
Speaker 1: I loved what I was doing and and little did

169
00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:53,000
Speaker 1: I know that my entire life. I've been coaching when

170
00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:55,280
Speaker 1: I was playing, I was coaching when I was when

171
00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:57,840
Speaker 1: I was playing, I was coaching little kids. So just

172
00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:00,400
Speaker 1: something I always do, I always had done. That was

173
00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:02,719
Speaker 1: God's plan. I just didn't know it to the day

174
00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:04,600
Speaker 1: to the day I walked in his house and the

175
00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:07,199
Speaker 1: next day he and I were on plane to Stanford.

176
00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:09,720
Speaker 1: All right, that's an amazing story, But I gotta go back.

177
00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:12,920
Speaker 1: What were you streaking across campus four? Did you lose

178
00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:15,760
Speaker 1: a bet? Was it part of it? How did that happen?

179
00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:17,600
Speaker 1: That's that was back in the day. That's what we did.

180
00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:20,080
Speaker 1: That's just what we did. We got naked. We ran

181
00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:23,920
Speaker 1: across like I did it three times, once school cafeteria,

182
00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:28,000
Speaker 1: middle school, once uh the prom and then and then

183
00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:31,720
Speaker 1: and then once at at BC. We actually we actually

184
00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:34,200
Speaker 1: got in the car, uh and we went to the BC,

185
00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:36,400
Speaker 1: went to we had there was a football game at

186
00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:39,040
Speaker 1: Holy Cross out in Worcester, and UH me and a

187
00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:41,200
Speaker 1: bunch of our buddies we got in the car with

188
00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:44,160
Speaker 1: a lot to drink and uh locked our clothes in

189
00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:47,880
Speaker 1: the trunk and drove to West naked and and just

190
00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:49,839
Speaker 1: you know, just like who had the balls to actually

191
00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:51,760
Speaker 1: get out of the car. You know, who was going

192
00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:54,360
Speaker 1: to give him the key? You know? And and and

193
00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:57,240
Speaker 1: and I don't remember a lot about that trip other

194
00:09:57,280 --> 00:09:59,079
Speaker 1: than thank god we didn't get arrested. In my parents

195
00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:00,920
Speaker 1: never found out about it. You know what's funny, as

196
00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:03,760
Speaker 1: I'll confess to this too. Uh Uh. When I was

197
00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:07,280
Speaker 1: in college, I had a bet with one of my

198
00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:11,240
Speaker 1: buddies who was a Baltimore Ravens fan. Um and uh

199
00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:13,559
Speaker 1: and I was a Tennessee Titan fan growing up in Nashville.

200
00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:17,959
Speaker 1: And uh we bet whoever was gonna win a playoff game.

201
00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:21,320
Speaker 1: Titans had a playoff game against the Baltimore Ravens. They lost,

202
00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:23,280
Speaker 1: of course, because they always lose every playoff game. It

203
00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:26,280
Speaker 1: feels like that matters just about and uh, I had

204
00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:29,280
Speaker 1: to do a streak around. I went to George Washington

205
00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:31,199
Speaker 1: in d C. So I had to streak around d C.

206
00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:33,320
Speaker 1: And what it was funny about that, Um, First off,

207
00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:35,240
Speaker 1: I didn't get arrested, but I think it would have

208
00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:37,920
Speaker 1: been a federal offense because you're you're in the District

209
00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:41,679
Speaker 1: of Columbia and uh and coach I remember um and

210
00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:45,400
Speaker 1: our freshman year dorm. Uh. The Secret Service raided the

211
00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:48,080
Speaker 1: dorm because a kid was making fake I d s.

212
00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:50,480
Speaker 1: And it was a federal offense because you're in the

213
00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:52,760
Speaker 1: district of Columbia, right, so you know a lot of

214
00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:55,560
Speaker 1: kids know about you know, you're seventeen, eighteen years old whatever.

215
00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:56,959
Speaker 1: In a college campus, you want to be able to

216
00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:59,400
Speaker 1: get buy a beer, go into a bar, and so

217
00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:01,720
Speaker 1: fake I d are common. And this kid, uh in

218
00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:04,720
Speaker 1: the in down the hall one of the freshman dorms. Yeah,

219
00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:07,480
Speaker 1: they the Secret Service raided his dorm because he was

220
00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:09,760
Speaker 1: making these fake I d s. But so you go,

221
00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:14,000
Speaker 1: it was that the w Admission's office is promoting very

222
00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:21,440
Speaker 1: much coming wa get a federal offense. Yeah, no kidding. Uh,

223
00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:24,000
Speaker 1: by the way, so was the culture. So for me,

224
00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:26,160
Speaker 1: I grew up in Nashville, and there was a big

225
00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:28,600
Speaker 1: culture shock for me going to GW because it was

226
00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:31,640
Speaker 1: a very Northeastern school and I grew up in the

227
00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:33,800
Speaker 1: South and it was more brusque. I think it was

228
00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:36,760
Speaker 1: great for me because people were tougher, harder edge, thicker skin.

229
00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:39,040
Speaker 1: It was good for me at eighteen or nineteen years

230
00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:41,000
Speaker 1: old to get used to that in a way maybe

231
00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:43,600
Speaker 1: that it wouldn't have for my career. Was it a

232
00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:47,040
Speaker 1: culture shock for you to go from Boston to Stanford,

233
00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:50,880
Speaker 1: like to take that job, or because Palo Alto is amazing.

234
00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:53,520
Speaker 1: But I have to think that Boston and Palo Alto

235
00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:56,480
Speaker 1: were not that similar, at least for you as a

236
00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:59,680
Speaker 1: kid growing up in the in the Northeast. Now it

237
00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:03,320
Speaker 1: was very different. Uh you know, growing up in Boston. Um,

238
00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:06,920
Speaker 1: he was born in nineteen sixty. Um. I lived through

239
00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:11,679
Speaker 1: the era of force bussing. Um saw it, saw real racism,

240
00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:17,400
Speaker 1: saw real racial tension, real white on black fights. Uh,

241
00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:23,560
Speaker 1: tremendous anti semitism. Um, that stuff all mattered. Um. And

242
00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:27,240
Speaker 1: while there was some amazingly wonderful ethnic neighborhoods in Boston,

243
00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:31,240
Speaker 1: the Italian North End, the Irish South Boston, the Jewish

244
00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:35,720
Speaker 1: quarter of Mattapan, Dorchester, Blue Hill Avenue, Um, there was

245
00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:40,320
Speaker 1: a lot of uh, a lot of identity. Um that

246
00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:43,120
Speaker 1: that wound up creating a lot of conflict. And as

247
00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:47,040
Speaker 1: a coach and team builder, UM it bothered me to

248
00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:51,560
Speaker 1: my core. Um the and when we play sports and

249
00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:54,240
Speaker 1: we go to playground, it's shirts and skins. I don't

250
00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:56,920
Speaker 1: give a rats ask what color you are? Can you rebound?

251
00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:00,040
Speaker 1: Can you make a shot? UM, I don't care a

252
00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:02,439
Speaker 1: you got a temple or church or if you don't,

253
00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:05,720
Speaker 1: you know, can you guard somebody? And and and we

254
00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:09,480
Speaker 1: play as kids and and and we're not we're not

255
00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:13,560
Speaker 1: identifying each other that way. And but our parents and

256
00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:18,120
Speaker 1: our grandparents maybe are or were and and so I

257
00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:20,640
Speaker 1: was so glad I grew up in Boston to see

258
00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:24,000
Speaker 1: the greatness of the ethnicity, but the damage that it

259
00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:27,600
Speaker 1: could do as it relates to the relationships. Then the

260
00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:30,400
Speaker 1: second thing answered to your question, So I grew up

261
00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:33,520
Speaker 1: at Kennedy Democrat. You know, um, you know the Kennedy

262
00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:36,559
Speaker 1: family you up in in Boston at that time. I mean,

263
00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:38,120
Speaker 1: it was just like, oh, my god, that you know

264
00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:40,959
Speaker 1: and and and and so much. They were heroes, absolutely

265
00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:45,080
Speaker 1: heroes and and and and and why not? Um? And

266
00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:49,040
Speaker 1: then as I drove across the country on my slash

267
00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:53,240
Speaker 1: honeymoon and also my what, I drove out there to

268
00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:56,720
Speaker 1: start working at Stanford. Um. And I was always a

269
00:13:56,760 --> 00:14:01,239
Speaker 1: Boston Globe reader. Um. I began to pick up newspapers.

270
00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:04,560
Speaker 1: Back in the day, the newspapers used to report things,

271
00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:07,040
Speaker 1: and if you wanted an opinion, you picked up the

272
00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:09,320
Speaker 1: back of the page and read the editorial and you

273
00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:12,200
Speaker 1: found out what the opinions were. And Clay, what I

274
00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:17,960
Speaker 1: what I came to know then, back in extreme two,

275
00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:20,960
Speaker 1: when I traveled across the country, is that the same

276
00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:24,280
Speaker 1: story that would be written in the Braston Grobe would

277
00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:29,320
Speaker 1: be a completely different story in the Indianapolis Star and

278
00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:34,920
Speaker 1: the Davoine Register and the l A Times. It blew

279
00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:39,600
Speaker 1: me away and I came to realize then the incredible

280
00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:44,840
Speaker 1: power of the media and how the media could absolutely control,

281
00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:50,400
Speaker 1: I say control, not influence the minds and the makeup

282
00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:54,040
Speaker 1: of the readers. And I and it's scared to crap

283
00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:58,280
Speaker 1: out of me. And then of course I went out

284
00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:02,720
Speaker 1: west and and you know, and and I see the

285
00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:05,360
Speaker 1: good in everybody, Clay, I do. I see the good.

286
00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:08,880
Speaker 1: I saw greatness Huthern, California, things that I loved, and

287
00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:13,880
Speaker 1: most of it was the weather, um and um and yeah.

288
00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:16,640
Speaker 1: And then through coaching, I was able to get into

289
00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:20,600
Speaker 1: the Midwest and the South, and I've I've seen this great, great,

290
00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:24,600
Speaker 1: great country of ours and um. Yeah, but it's amazing

291
00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:28,520
Speaker 1: where you live, um, and what you read or what

292
00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:31,440
Speaker 1: you watch or listen to has not an awful lot

293
00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:34,800
Speaker 1: to who you are and what you believe. Yeah, I'm curious,

294
00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:36,320
Speaker 1: by the way, now that you mentioned it, what was

295
00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:39,440
Speaker 1: it like to be a Jewish kid going to Boston College,

296
00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:43,920
Speaker 1: a you know, Catholic Jesuit school. Did that feel incongruous

297
00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:47,320
Speaker 1: to you or did you feel comfortable there despite obviously

298
00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:49,440
Speaker 1: a religious difference. I don't know what the vibe is

299
00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:51,720
Speaker 1: like at Boston College or what it would have been

300
00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:54,040
Speaker 1: like for you from seventy eight to eighty two in

301
00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:56,520
Speaker 1: the time that you would have been there. Yep, Claire,

302
00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:58,480
Speaker 1: I went to BC for a reason. I went to

303
00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:04,040
Speaker 1: BC just for exactly that reason. Um. You know, there

304
00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:09,600
Speaker 1: are stereotypes and there are perceptions. Um, there aren't a

305
00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:13,880
Speaker 1: tremendous number of Jewish athletes out there that would be

306
00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:16,360
Speaker 1: a stereotype. Could it be factually true, I don't know.

307
00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:19,120
Speaker 1: But the perception of a Jewish man would be, you know,

308
00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:20,880
Speaker 1: you're gonna be a doctor, or you're gonna be a lawyer.

309
00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:22,400
Speaker 1: You I mean in real estate, you're gonna be smart,

310
00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:25,800
Speaker 1: You're gonna make money. Whatever that stereotype or perception you

311
00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:30,200
Speaker 1: necessarily would be. It wouldn't necessarily be digging ditches or

312
00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:34,320
Speaker 1: being an athlete. Against all stereotypes, and I came to

313
00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:39,400
Speaker 1: I came to understand that I could change that, that

314
00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:42,240
Speaker 1: I could go to Boston College with with with a

315
00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:46,040
Speaker 1: very large Catholic population, and they can see me pray,

316
00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:48,440
Speaker 1: they could see me sweat, they could see me work,

317
00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:50,760
Speaker 1: and if they want to put up if they wanted

318
00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:52,520
Speaker 1: to fight me, because I had to fight a lot

319
00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:55,520
Speaker 1: when I grew up for being Jewish. I didn't tell

320
00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:58,800
Speaker 1: them I was Jewish. I told him I was Israeli.

321
00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:01,120
Speaker 1: And then I asked them if they wanted to go,

322
00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:07,720
Speaker 1: like you want to dance, I'm Israeli. Let's dance with

323
00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:10,600
Speaker 1: the idea being that Israeli people were thought to be tougher.

324
00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:14,320
Speaker 1: Is that is that what you were thinking? Damn, damn right,

325
00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:19,040
Speaker 1: damn straight and and yes, and and that's what I wore,

326
00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:23,040
Speaker 1: you know, that was my armor, that was my courage,

327
00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:27,840
Speaker 1: that was my I could look to Israeli leaders for strength,

328
00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:33,840
Speaker 1: and I did as a as a young Jewish boy. Um,

329
00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:37,360
Speaker 1: and you know what all it all it was, Clay

330
00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:41,479
Speaker 1: was getting to know each other, overcoming you know, the

331
00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:45,760
Speaker 1: ignorance of never really having a Jewish friend, or never

332
00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:49,360
Speaker 1: really having a black friend, or and and and and

333
00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:53,560
Speaker 1: so my life has been through sports. And it started

334
00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:56,919
Speaker 1: at a very young age, saying, dude, we are we

335
00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:02,199
Speaker 1: are brothers Abraham, the father of all nations. We are

336
00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:05,680
Speaker 1: brothers from another mother, But our father is the same.

337
00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:08,760
Speaker 1: He's the same guy that that that brings us together.

338
00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:12,280
Speaker 1: I tell people all the time when as as I've

339
00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:16,760
Speaker 1: never been more religiously comfortable anywhere in my life than

340
00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:23,720
Speaker 1: in the South, nowhere among among evangelical Christians. Um. Because

341
00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:26,080
Speaker 1: when you go to services there, they read from the

342
00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:29,959
Speaker 1: Old Testament. They talk about Jesus being a rabbi and

343
00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:32,920
Speaker 1: being a Jew. And when I hear that as a

344
00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:36,119
Speaker 1: coach and as a as someone that whose whole life

345
00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:39,080
Speaker 1: is about bringing people together, I'm saying, there it is

346
00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:44,000
Speaker 1: Jesus brings us together. He doesn't separate us. My whole

347
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:47,080
Speaker 1: life growing up Jewish, that was a separator. They believe

348
00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:49,920
Speaker 1: Jesus was a son of God, we don't. They believe

349
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:53,399
Speaker 1: he was the Messiah, we don't. There's the line the sand,

350
00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:56,639
Speaker 1: that's the bloodline. It's drawn, and if you live on

351
00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:58,919
Speaker 1: this side or that side, we're willing to go to

352
00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:03,560
Speaker 1: war over it. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no.

353
00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:09,640
Speaker 1: Their God, their number one guy. They're dude, the greatest

354
00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:12,080
Speaker 1: guy to ever walked the face of the earth. Jesus

355
00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:19,720
Speaker 1: was Jewish, He celebrated Passover, he celebrated that he walked

356
00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:24,520
Speaker 1: to Israel to Jerusalem how many times a year to

357
00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:30,359
Speaker 1: celebrate the new year. Russia sean key, poor dude. That

358
00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:32,720
Speaker 1: that connects us. Whether you don't think so or not,

359
00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:35,320
Speaker 1: I do. It's right there in the history books. And

360
00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:39,959
Speaker 1: then that's who I have sort of become. Can't we

361
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:43,720
Speaker 1: look at the things that we have more in common

362
00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:50,359
Speaker 1: than the things that separate us. It's such a there's

363
00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:56,000
Speaker 1: so much to unpack there. Did you early on recognize

364
00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:59,200
Speaker 1: because that's really what you have to do as a coach, right.

365
00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:02,199
Speaker 1: The coach job is to bring people who may have

366
00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:07,640
Speaker 1: tremendous differences into a cohesive whole. Much of what goes

367
00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:10,600
Speaker 1: on in the country today is the opposite of that. Right,

368
00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:14,560
Speaker 1: You appeal to a certain segment of the population in

369
00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:17,200
Speaker 1: the hopes that you can motivate that group to support

370
00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:20,240
Speaker 1: you going up against somebody else. Now that obviously your

371
00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:22,439
Speaker 1: team in some level is going to have to go

372
00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:26,080
Speaker 1: up against other teams. But when you go to southern Indiana,

373
00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:28,919
Speaker 1: you've been at Stanford. You've been at Iowa, You've been

374
00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:32,280
Speaker 1: an assistant coach. How did you end up there? And

375
00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:35,240
Speaker 1: what was the experience like to go from being an

376
00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:38,760
Speaker 1: assistant coach to being a head coach? How much did

377
00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:40,680
Speaker 1: you have to learn? And I'll give you an analogy

378
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:44,320
Speaker 1: here that I love UM that I think you'll appreciate um.

379
00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:47,480
Speaker 1: Back in the day, I remember hearing a great story

380
00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:50,120
Speaker 1: from Norm Chow and I think it's a great metaphor

381
00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:54,119
Speaker 1: larger universe for people as they engage in a new job.

382
00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:56,480
Speaker 1: When he became a head coach for the first time,

383
00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:59,080
Speaker 1: and I think it was at Hawaii, he was standing

384
00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:02,560
Speaker 1: on the sideline clock was running down and he thought

385
00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:05,680
Speaker 1: to himself, boy, somebody really should call a time out,

386
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,520
Speaker 1: you know. And then he thought, wait a minute, I'm

387
00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:11,200
Speaker 1: a guy. I've got to call the time out. I'm

388
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:14,160
Speaker 1: the head coach. He had come from being an offensive coordinator,

389
00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:17,640
Speaker 1: where you watch somebody else have to make the call,

390
00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:20,280
Speaker 1: right like you can be in the headset saying, boy,

391
00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:23,000
Speaker 1: somebody should call a time out. But he was thinking

392
00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:25,359
Speaker 1: to himself as he watched the clock, boy, somebody should

393
00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:27,199
Speaker 1: call it time out. And then he thought immediately like

394
00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:29,919
Speaker 1: early in his coaching career. You're the headman. You know

395
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:33,080
Speaker 1: he's still aligned from Harry Trueman. The buck stops with me.

396
00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:36,680
Speaker 1: I suddenly have to make that call. What is it

397
00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:39,320
Speaker 1: like to go from an assistant as you work your

398
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:42,440
Speaker 1: way up, grinding no telling how many hours, to suddenly

399
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:44,640
Speaker 1: being the guy who has to call that time out,

400
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:46,720
Speaker 1: who has to make that decision. How did you find

401
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:51,560
Speaker 1: that transition? If you went to work every day as

402
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:56,160
Speaker 1: an assistant and felt like you had a very impactful

403
00:21:56,280 --> 00:22:01,320
Speaker 1: role like Norm Chow had as a coordinator, um, then

404
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:05,960
Speaker 1: there's not as big a transition um to be in

405
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,320
Speaker 1: the head coach. But if you went to work and

406
00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:11,359
Speaker 1: just simply punts the clock and really didn't take it

407
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:14,280
Speaker 1: home at night and worry about it, and and we're

408
00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:17,880
Speaker 1: sleepless because you couldn't get this done or that done, UM,

409
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:19,840
Speaker 1: or couldn't go back to sleep because your mind couldn't

410
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:22,680
Speaker 1: get off of what plays you should be calling, then

411
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:26,480
Speaker 1: there's a huge jump, and then you're not ready for it. UM.

412
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:28,320
Speaker 1: And I think because I was an assistant and I

413
00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:30,720
Speaker 1: tried to care uh, and I wore it on my sleeve,

414
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:33,280
Speaker 1: I wasn't impact in the games nearly as much as

415
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:36,400
Speaker 1: the head coach of the players. But but it mattered

416
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,080
Speaker 1: as much to me as it did to them. And

417
00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:41,560
Speaker 1: so if it matters to you, I think that adjustment

418
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:45,600
Speaker 1: is a lot less the pressure UH, and the anxiety

419
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,200
Speaker 1: UH is greater. Um. You know, every time a head

420
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:53,200
Speaker 1: coach gets fired. UM. Oftentimes the coach a little better

421
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:56,560
Speaker 1: off financially, sometimes a lot better off financially, But down

422
00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:00,359
Speaker 1: goes his staff and their families, and the trade trainers

423
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 1: and the strength coaches and the nutritionists and the statustans

424
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:09,560
Speaker 1: and all those other people who aren't as financially secure.

425
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:13,320
Speaker 1: And so I wear that I have responsibility, Clay, when

426
00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:16,760
Speaker 1: I got fired at Tennessee because I lied to the

427
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:21,199
Speaker 1: n C double about a stinking barbecue. All right, all right?

428
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:23,199
Speaker 1: And all I had to do was in my in

429
00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 1: my interview with the n C double, A I didn't

430
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 1: have an attorney. Why I don't need an attorney. I

431
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:30,480
Speaker 1: didn't do anything wrong. They were gonna ask me a

432
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:33,720
Speaker 1: bunch of questions about some phone calls. We're fine, Who

433
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,680
Speaker 1: goes into one of those without an attorney? My dumbass.

434
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden they pull out a

435
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,199
Speaker 1: picture and it's a picture of a couple of players

436
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:46,280
Speaker 1: that had a dinner at my house with a hundred

437
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:48,399
Speaker 1: other people. And if they were a year older, they

438
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 1: legally could be there. But they weren't a year older.

439
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:52,560
Speaker 1: They were a year younger, and we already had him committed,

440
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:55,479
Speaker 1: so we didn't get any advantage. But instead of just

441
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:59,920
Speaker 1: telling the truth, myself and my assistants didn't and panicked

442
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,119
Speaker 1: and went back to the office and called the n

443
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:04,680
Speaker 1: C double appy one. You know what, you guys gonna

444
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 1: come back. We didn't tell you the truth. Um. But

445
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,120
Speaker 1: when I made that mistake, which I am accountable part,

446
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:13,120
Speaker 1: I know, I minimized it right there. And I shouldn't

447
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,159
Speaker 1: have done that because what I did and and and

448
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:20,159
Speaker 1: not telling the truth um cost myself my job a reputation,

449
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,040
Speaker 1: but it also impacted those other families, Thank god. Steve

450
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 1: Forbes is the head coach at Wake Forest University, and

451
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:30,680
Speaker 1: Jason Shay is assistant and um and I'm at Auburn

452
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,320
Speaker 1: and um and and and and and and and everything

453
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:39,280
Speaker 1: is good. I'm curious when you left, and I'm gonna

454
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:41,119
Speaker 1: come back to Tennessee because I do think that's a

455
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:45,120
Speaker 1: fascinating part of your story. Uh. But when you left

456
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:50,119
Speaker 1: Southern Indiana? Is it valuable to learn? You said you

457
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:51,920
Speaker 1: had kind of thought of yourself as a head coach,

458
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 1: maybe as an assistant coach. Is it valuable to learn

459
00:24:55,720 --> 00:25:00,119
Speaker 1: without everybody watching you as a head coach? And what

460
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 1: I mean by that is there are a lot of

461
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 1: guys who get their first job, and when they get

462
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 1: their first job, they're immediately going to be criticized and

463
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 1: analyzed in excruciating detail over being that head coach. How

464
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 1: much did being and I'm sure there were media that

465
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:18,400
Speaker 1: covered you, but how much did being under the radar

466
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 1: in some way as a head coach at Southern Indiana

467
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 1: make you a better coach? Was that a better pathway

468
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:28,119
Speaker 1: than maybe, in retrospect, having gotten a head job at

469
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 1: an n C double, a major institution where people are

470
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 1: paying attention on a day to day basis well bow Ryan,

471
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,920
Speaker 1: who coached at Wisconsin coach at Wisconsin Prattville in Division

472
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:42,399
Speaker 1: three in Wisconsin Milwaukee in Division one mid major before

473
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 1: he ever got the Wisconsin job, And when Bo was

474
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 1: at Prettville, I was an assistant in Iowa getting ready

475
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 1: to take the Southern Indiana job Division two BP. Let

476
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 1: me tell you something it's the greatest thing I did.

477
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:55,920
Speaker 1: You know, Uh, I learned that a coach. I cut

478
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 1: my teeth and understand this, Clay, you might only get

479
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 1: one shot of in a head coach, and you better

480
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:03,880
Speaker 1: win because if you don't win, you might never get

481
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 1: another shot. Guys get it, they lose, they go back

482
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 1: and be assistance. Maybe a few years later they'll forget

483
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 1: about what they did when they got their chance, and

484
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:12,879
Speaker 1: maybe they got another chance, but most of them don't.

485
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,360
Speaker 1: So the key is, you better win, and you better

486
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 1: take a job you think you've got a chance to win,

487
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:20,440
Speaker 1: because it's the only chance, your only chance to get

488
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 1: you know, to get another job. Um. But Division two

489
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 1: is really good, Division three is really good because guess what,

490
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:30,159
Speaker 1: there's great coaching at those at those places, sometimes almost

491
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 1: better coaching than Division one Division one. You've got good coaches,

492
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 1: but guys that can recruit, guys that can run programs,

493
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 1: but not necessarily all of being great coaches. Um. And

494
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:43,399
Speaker 1: I think that I think you know that that would

495
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 1: be um obviously a a a great you know, training ground, uh,

496
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,119
Speaker 1: and a great preparation uh, not just not having as

497
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,919
Speaker 1: much attention. Um. Look, no matter what you do, you

498
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,679
Speaker 1: gotta win. You know, when you're winning. When you're winning,

499
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,240
Speaker 1: they're worried you're gonna leave. And when you're loose, using

500
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 1: their packing your backs. So coaches are always coming or going.

501
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,439
Speaker 1: You want a national championship, by the way, at Southern

502
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 1: Indiana in your third year, and then you continue to

503
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,200
Speaker 1: coach there. I'm looking at right now, two and thirty

504
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 1: one and forty six. How tough of a decision was

505
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 1: it to make to go to D one and to

506
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:23,160
Speaker 1: take Wisconsin Milwaukee. I'm sitting I'm sitting on my porch

507
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:27,159
Speaker 1: with my wife and uh and and we are you know,

508
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 1: I got it going on in Southern Indiana. What are

509
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 1: they paying you? By the way, what are you making

510
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:33,880
Speaker 1: at Southern Indiana at the time end of the day?

511
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 1: Known really at the end of the day now I was.

512
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 1: I started fifty six thousand UM back in three I

513
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 1: took a pay cut to to to be an assistant coach.

514
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 1: I was an assistant coach at Iowa. I took about

515
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,400
Speaker 1: a twenty five thousand dollar pay cut to move to Evansville,

516
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 1: Indiana to become a Division two head coach. Much to

517
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 1: your wife to take that, Okay, it was it was Okay,

518
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,360
Speaker 1: it was I wanted to You know what, you gotta

519
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,159
Speaker 1: take chance, you gotta bet on yourself. And so I

520
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:03,879
Speaker 1: wanted to be a head coach and that was my

521
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 1: but that was my chance. I left when I was

522
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 1: thirty two years old. I was ready. Tom Davis said

523
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 1: to me two things when I left him. If your

524
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 1: teams look like our teams, that would be a good thing.

525
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 1: Teach what you know how to teach. Don't leave me

526
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 1: and go learn a new system. This is a system,

527
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 1: you know, make it your own, make it better, but

528
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: but let this be your foundation, that Gary Williams Tom

529
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 1: Davis system of coaching basketball. And a second piece of

530
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 1: advice he gave me was be yourself. I could never

531
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:33,640
Speaker 1: be Dr Tom Davis. He was a completely different guy.

532
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:35,680
Speaker 1: He was way smarter than I am, he was more

533
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 1: patient than I was. Whatever the case was. But it

534
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 1: was great advice because that way I could always be myself.

535
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 1: I didn't have to try to be something else. I

536
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 1: could be authentic, like it or not. Right, Claire, you

537
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 1: know me, people like me, people hate me. It's win

538
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 1: or lose, right, It's there's there's no vanilla when it

539
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 1: comes to Bruce Pearl and it's not because I'm not

540
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,239
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to play to my base and I'm

541
00:28:56,320 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 1: not trying to to to please the enemy. Um I know,

542
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 1: I know who my family is, I know my friends are,

543
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 1: and I know who my opponents are. And um so no,

544
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 1: and then when I when I when I then when

545
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 1: I left Southern Indiana as a Division two coach, I

546
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 1: had worked up my own TV show, my own radio show.

547
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 1: I mean, I had it going on, and I got

548
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 1: myself up to where I was making about a hundred

549
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 1: eighty thousand dollars and to go to Division one Wisconsin, Milwaukee.

550
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 1: I took the job for a hundred and fifteen thousand.

551
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 1: I went from a Division two job and and a

552
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 1: and a in a very modest town to where I

553
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 1: could barely afford the rent in Milwaukee, and built that

554
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 1: up after a few years and did better. And then

555
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 1: find you four years later Milwaukee I beat Alabama, beat

556
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 1: Boston College and then Tennessee, Kim Cohne, did you know

557
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 1: your life had changed because a lot of those mid

558
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 1: major coaches, I mean, by the way, I think that's

559
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 1: an incredibly instructive I always like to ask people what

560
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 1: their salaries were because a lot of people on the

561
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 1: way up remember them, and I'm glad you told this story.

562
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 1: And by the way, we're talking with Bruce Pearl, I'm

563
00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 1: Clay Travis. This is Wins and Losses. Box Sports Radio

564
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: has the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch

565
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 1: all of our shows at Fox Sports Radio dot com

566
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 1: and within the I Heart Radio app search f s

567
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 1: R to listen live. I'm glad you told that story

568
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 1: because a lot of people believe that in order to

569
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 1: go to a new job, they have to make more

570
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 1: money than they made at the old job. And what

571
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 1: I try to tell people ask people ask for advice

572
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 1: or questions, I say, don't think about what you're making,

573
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 1: think about what you can do. And I don't know

574
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 1: if you're familiar with this concept, Coach, but I bet

575
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 1: it makes a lot of sense to you. I'm big

576
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 1: on the idea of the adjacent possible. And what I

577
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 1: mean by the adjacent possible, if people haven't heard it before,

578
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:44,719
Speaker 1: is if you take a new job, do you have

579
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 1: opportunities to do things that you didn't at your old job.

580
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 1: Easy example, you couldn't go to the Sweet sixteen at

581
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 1: Southern Indiana, you could win the d two national championship there,

582
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 1: but you couldn't go to the sweet sixteen, so you

583
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 1: go from one eight to one fifteen. Many people would say,

584
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 1: oh my god, that's a big step back. Same thing

585
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 1: when you took fifty six k to go to Southern

586
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 1: Indiana and you're taking less than you were making as

587
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 1: an assistant at Iowa. People can look at that and say, oh,

588
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 1: my goodness, why would you go back? But sometimes you're

589
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:17,720
Speaker 1: going back because the future is so much more positive.

590
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 1: Right Is that kind of the thought process that you

591
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 1: were in when you made that decision to go to

592
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 1: Wisconsin Milwaukee? Yeah, now that was it? And um, you

593
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 1: know I I wanted to you know, you start off

594
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 1: with those questions, only I did want to coach. In

595
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 1: the answer double Division one championship, And I think the

596
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 1: biggest thing was simply this. I was comfortable at Iowa

597
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 1: before I became a head coach, and becoming a head

598
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 1: coach made me a lot more uncomfortable challenge me. I

599
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 1: was comfortable winning two one games and losing. And I

600
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 1: had the best job in Division two at Southern Indiana

601
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 1: in a great town, and I got uncomfortable taking a

602
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 1: real bad job at these Wisconsin Milwaukee for no money

603
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 1: in the league with Butler and and Detroit and U

604
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 1: I C and Lola and and and you know, we

605
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 1: beat Butler three out of four years, uh to win

606
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 1: that league. And UM got uncomfortable. And then the other

607
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 1: thing too, I think is very interesting, Clay, is this um.

608
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 1: People that know let's say Clay Travis, they may really

609
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 1: only know you for the last year. The guy that

610
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 1: took over for Rush, the guy that's a regular guest

611
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 1: on Hannity, guy that this guy right, all right? And

612
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 1: there are there are other people that knew you ten

613
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 1: years prior. Then there are other people that knew you

614
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 1: ten years prior to that. Here's my point. Everybody else

615
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,480
Speaker 1: sees you as a Clay Travis you are today. But

616
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 1: you know what, you don't you see the guy that

617
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 1: you've known How old are you? You know the guy

618
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 1: that for forty one years, they only know you for

619
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 1: the last year. So for me, I'm sixty two. For

620
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 1: forty five years, I was broke. I was an assistant,

621
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 1: I was a Division two coach. I was nobody from nowhere. Yeah,

622
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,479
Speaker 1: we were winning, but I was so far off the radar.

623
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 1: Now when I walk into a home or I walk

624
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 1: around the final four or I'm on when it wins

625
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 1: and losses right now with you, it's the Bruce Pearl

626
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 1: from Auburn and Tennesseee that people know. But that's not

627
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 1: the guy that I still know. Like I still won't

628
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 1: buy a whopper unless it's two for four dollars. I

629
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 1: ain't paying, you know, the three sixty nine or three

630
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 1: seventy nine for that one whop. I'm not because I

631
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 1: was poor for forty five years and and and that's

632
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 1: that's who I really am, and and and and people

633
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 1: just don't know that when they bump into people that are,

634
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 1: you know, sort of at a place right now where

635
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 1: I'm at the top of my profession right now. But

636
00:33:56,240 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't start here say I'm glad you

637
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 1: brought that up, because that was gonna be my question.

638
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 1: When you got the job at Tennessee. Suddenly you start

639
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:09,399
Speaker 1: making money, right and also the attention that comes with that.

640
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 1: And I always like to ask people. And look, I

641
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 1: did not have h substantial money either, like I was

642
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:18,759
Speaker 1: all would never order you mentioned the whopper. I would

643
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 1: never order something that was anywhere near the most expensive

644
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:23,880
Speaker 1: thing on the menu. Uh, you know, like, if you

645
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 1: sit down in a restaurant, you're like, oh, man, I

646
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:27,400
Speaker 1: would know. Now it's a good thing to not have

647
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,439
Speaker 1: to worry about that. I was gonna ask you when

648
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 1: you got to the point where and maybe you're still

649
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 1: not there, which is also fascinating, where you could go

650
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 1: to a restaurant. Uh. And I'm not saying it's like

651
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 1: the most expensive restaurant in the world, but you don't

652
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 1: worry about what something costs you still in your mind,

653
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 1: every time you sit down, you look at the prices

654
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 1: on the on the menu, and and and are conscious

655
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 1: of of of those four or five years when you

656
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:52,799
Speaker 1: didn't have the money to order whatever you wanted. Well,

657
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 1: I do, I do a little bit because I remember,

658
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 1: you know, I remember that, Yeah, we went out to

659
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 1: dinner on Sunday. Um, every other Sunday. I had everything

660
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 1: I need as a kid. But literally going to a

661
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:09,759
Speaker 1: restaurant that was at every other Sunday. Uh, an ice

662
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 1: cream cone. That was for a really good report card. Um.

663
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:15,840
Speaker 1: That wasn't just like let's go get ice cream, we're hungry.

664
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 1: That was you know, hey, we had a we got

665
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 1: a good report card, Let's go get an ice cream. Um.

666
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 1: And that's how I grew up, and so I sort

667
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 1: of still failed that way. I still go to the

668
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:28,279
Speaker 1: clearance track. I walk into a store. You know, I'm right,

669
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:30,719
Speaker 1: I'm right over that. Come right over that clearance track. Man.

670
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 1: You go to a pro shop right now. Man, you

671
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 1: walk into pro shop and and you look at what

672
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 1: they want for some of them shirts. Yeah, I just

673
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:39,359
Speaker 1: go over there, right Yeah, I know. I mean, look,

674
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:40,759
Speaker 1: I get made fun of all the time for the

675
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 1: clothes that I end up wearing. I mean I buy

676
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 1: stuff at Costco a lot. I mean right off the

677
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:47,760
Speaker 1: you know, like I get, I eat the samples and

678
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 1: uh and you know, like I'll buy. I mean, my

679
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:51,400
Speaker 1: kids make fun of me. I've got a lot of

680
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:54,799
Speaker 1: Kirkland brand stuff because I just I mean, one, I'm

681
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:58,320
Speaker 1: probably clueless. My wife is better at spending money on

682
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 1: on clothes. Certainly, there's a lot of a lot of

683
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 1: people out there listening not even along right now, and

684
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 1: shoes for god knows, but I'm kind of clueless a

685
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 1: lot of times on it, so uh, it doesn't register.

686
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 1: I mean when I went to g W there were

687
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 1: a lot of kids with a lot of money, and

688
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 1: they would always you know, somebody say, hey, did you

689
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 1: see Uh you know what what what that guy is? Uh?

690
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 1: You know what that guy's jeans cost or what that

691
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:22,400
Speaker 1: girl's purse. I I was so clueless on it. I

692
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:24,759
Speaker 1: didn't even notice. Like it just went right over my head.

693
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 1: And I think there's a benefit to that, but it is.

694
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 1: So you go to Tennessee. So what was it like?

695
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 1: And and this is where we met because I'm a

696
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:38,239
Speaker 1: long time universe My grandfather played for General neil in

697
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 1: back in the day. People know who are listening? Uh?

698
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:42,920
Speaker 1: And and so I grew up going to games and

699
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 1: that that was the big trip we would take growing

700
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 1: up in Nashville. Get to go to watch a game

701
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 1: in neil and Stadium. Uh. And I was there for

702
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 1: Thompson Bowling when it opened back in God to go

703
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 1: watch games there. That was as big as things got.

704
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 1: And you got to Tennessee, and Tennessee did not have

705
00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:02,720
Speaker 1: an illustrious record, certainly basket all history wise, necessarily certainly

706
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:04,400
Speaker 1: not to go to six straight n C Double A

707
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 1: tournaments like you did. What was that experience like to

708
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 1: go from I'm sure there were fans at Wisconsin Milwaukee

709
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 1: in southern Indiana and I'm sure you cultivated them well,

710
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 1: but what was walking into a fan base that was

711
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 1: as hungry for success as Tennessee like for you. Yeah, Clay,

712
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 1: for the first time in my career, I was probably

713
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:28,880
Speaker 1: a little bit over my head. Um. I was forty

714
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 1: years old. Um, I had more talent. I had left

715
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:37,400
Speaker 1: more talent at the University of Wisconsin Milwaukee, then I

716
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 1: inherited it Tennessee. Um. But I wasn't playing in the

717
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 1: Horizon League. I was in the SEC um and Uh,

718
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:50,239
Speaker 1: it was almost overwhelming. But you know, we had some

719
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 1: interesting pieces. Um. And we had a great point guarding C. J. Watson.

720
00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 1: We had a a that that really really was was needed,

721
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 1: a fresh start. Chris Lofton had a great freshman year

722
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 1: for Buzz Peterson. Uh. And of course no Kentucky and Louisville.

723
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:16,560
Speaker 1: Um and um. You know, nobody had recruited Chris out

724
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 1: of Maysville, Kentucky. And um, he he was gonna leave.

725
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 1: Maybe told me you're losing your best player, he's leaving,

726
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:26,239
Speaker 1: And I said, well, I mean, okay, he's leaving. He's leaving.

727
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 1: I'd love to meet with him one time, but I'll

728
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 1: meet with him. So I met with the team. Um,

729
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 1: and you know, of course, you know we need to

730
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:35,440
Speaker 1: tighten things up. There wasn't a ton of discipline. You

731
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 1: guys were missing class, they were late for things, so

732
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 1: and so forth and so um. My very first night

733
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:45,840
Speaker 1: on the job. My next morning, the next morning, I

734
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 1: get a report that like five kids miss class and

735
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 1: and and a couple of kids were late. And believe

736
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:55,720
Speaker 1: or not, ironically, one of those kids was Chris Lofton,

737
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:58,880
Speaker 1: who's never liked anything. He's the perfect kid, right. I

738
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 1: called those seven kids up, and you know, so tomorrow morning,

739
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 1: six am, Um, you're running and uh, you know, for

740
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 1: a come on, coach, you know, I just I won't happen.

741
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:12,399
Speaker 1: I said, look, I told you guys the other night

742
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:15,760
Speaker 1: that you know that you're gonna start going to class

743
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 1: and do these things. You've already gotten all your second

744
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 1: third chances. You have to get there at six o'clock

745
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 1: tomorrow morning or pack your bags and leave. And uh,

746
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:28,319
Speaker 1: Chris Lofton showed up to that run, and so did

747
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 1: those other six guys. And that's when he called home

748
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 1: that night. He said, co he said, Mom and Dad,

749
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 1: I'm staying at Tennessee. And that changed everything for you

750
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 1: because boy, oh boy, was he fun to watch. Now

751
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 1: you also, and this is something that I think is significant.

752
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:47,839
Speaker 1: You've talked about how you use sports to make a

753
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 1: difference beyond the world of sports, and Chris Lofton's story,

754
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 1: and certainly the work you did with Pat Summit, who

755
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 1: I know you had a tremendous relationship with. In fact,

756
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 1: let me ask you, what was Pat Summit like for

757
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:03,040
Speaker 1: people out there who were not familiar with U T.

758
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 1: S women's basketball coach. It's one of the most legendary

759
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 1: coaches of all time. Did you know much about Pat

760
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:11,319
Speaker 1: Summit before you got to Tennessee. You guys hit it off.

761
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 1: But what was she like? Yeah, she was just a sweetheart. Um,

762
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:18,839
Speaker 1: Pat could have Pat would have been. Um, she would

763
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:21,840
Speaker 1: have been successful no matter what she did. If she

764
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 1: was a university president, if she was president of country,

765
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 1: if she was a United States senator, she was a

766
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:30,720
Speaker 1: men's baseball coach or a women's basketball coach, Pat Summit

767
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:33,440
Speaker 1: would have been would have been one of the best

768
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:36,880
Speaker 1: to ever do it. That's just how she was driven,

769
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:42,640
Speaker 1: how she was raised. Um. She was an incredible mom.

770
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 1: She was a great friend, she was loyal, and she

771
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:49,399
Speaker 1: created a brand Clay. How in the world could could

772
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 1: the Tennessee volunteers have ever walked away from the Lady Balls.

773
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:56,879
Speaker 1: I mean when we were the Valls at Tennessee, that

774
00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:00,759
Speaker 1: was like nothing compared to being a Lady Ball, Like

775
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:02,960
Speaker 1: and then and then, and then and then these you know,

776
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:06,439
Speaker 1: these cancer culture folks that are on the other side

777
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:10,279
Speaker 1: of things, or these these women's activists, they looked at

778
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:14,160
Speaker 1: Lady This as somehow not being as good as oh,

779
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 1: we gotta be the Lady Bulldogs, we gotta be the

780
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:20,399
Speaker 1: Lady this or that. No, we're bulldogs. Well guess what

781
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 1: at Tennessee, the Lady Valls had it going on and

782
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:29,719
Speaker 1: the Balls weren't ship compared to the Lady Balls, and

783
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:33,400
Speaker 1: they gave it up, had some It created the Yankees.

784
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:37,799
Speaker 1: She was the Dallas Cowboys, she was the brand for

785
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 1: women's college basketball. She was the face and she owned it.

786
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:46,279
Speaker 1: And um, obviously Tennessee, you know, Tennessee loved her for it.

787
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:50,400
Speaker 1: And it was just tragic, you know that we lost her, um,

788
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 1: you know, at such a young time. And then as

789
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:55,360
Speaker 1: far as Chris Lofton is concerned, you know the story

790
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:58,879
Speaker 1: behind him out living cancer and of course we went

791
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:02,719
Speaker 1: and we beat Gan Outlive O U T l i

792
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:06,320
Speaker 1: v E. And that was Tennessee Basketball's fight against cancer.

793
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 1: UM Chris was diagnosed with cancer. UH after we lost

794
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:14,759
Speaker 1: to Greg Odin Mike Conley in the n C Double

795
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:18,520
Speaker 1: A Tournament. A random drug test turned up the fact

796
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:23,319
Speaker 1: that he either had taken steroids, he was pregnant, or

797
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:25,840
Speaker 1: he had to sticular cancer. We were already for pregnant,

798
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 1: but that didn't happen. And UH and he fought at

799
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 1: me won. He came back his senior year and UH

800
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 1: and and and then after Chris graduated, we started out Live.

801
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:40,160
Speaker 1: We raised over two million dollars UH for the University

802
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:44,719
Speaker 1: of Tennessee Hospital Cancer Institution. And in fact, I'm very

803
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:49,880
Speaker 1: proud that the Chemo Hut Chemo and Radiation Hut on

804
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 1: the fourth floor. I believe the cancer Institute is the

805
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 1: Bruce and Brandy Pearl UH Chemo Hut if you will.

806
00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 1: And UM I brought that campaign to Auburn and UH

807
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:04,800
Speaker 1: we do a UT outlive A U T l I V.

808
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:09,400
Speaker 1: And this year alone, we're gonna put two fifty dollars

809
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:12,719
Speaker 1: in the pockets of cancer patients in the state of

810
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:17,839
Speaker 1: Alabama who are having financial challenges while they're fighting their cancer. Because,

811
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:20,840
Speaker 1: as you know, cancer is something that it's not a

812
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 1: one you know, it's not a one trip pony. You

813
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 1: gotta you gotta do the radiation and the key moment

814
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:28,480
Speaker 1: the surgery. It can take years. That takes you out

815
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 1: of work, and that sometimes makes it really hard to

816
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 1: pay the bills. How can people donate and be involved,

817
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:35,440
Speaker 1: by the way, because there's a lot of people listening

818
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:38,719
Speaker 1: right now, I mean, that's phenomenal work. They just I'm

819
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:42,480
Speaker 1: assuming they can type in on Google basically A U

820
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 1: T A U T L I V E. Every penny

821
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:50,279
Speaker 1: we'll go to a person that is in financial need. Um,

822
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 1: we even we even when I first got here, did it.

823
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:54,799
Speaker 1: We did. We sent some money home to Tennessee. But

824
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 1: right now we're working with twelve agencies and hospitals in Alabama,

825
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:02,160
Speaker 1: so outlived com and we'll get that money to a family,

826
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:05,759
Speaker 1: more than one family that that needs it. If you

827
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:08,319
Speaker 1: could go back and recoach any game that you had

828
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 1: at Tennessee, I don't know if you go back and

829
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:15,439
Speaker 1: watch and I'm curious on that, like what game would

830
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:17,279
Speaker 1: you want? It gets Michigan State to go to the

831
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 1: Final four. I was there for that one. I watched

832
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:22,000
Speaker 1: that in person. What what would you what? What would

833
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:25,239
Speaker 1: you change? Oh, it's an easy fixed, clay, it's an

834
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:32,360
Speaker 1: easy fix. So we are Um, we are down. Um,

835
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:39,800
Speaker 1: I think we're down one. No, wait a second, we're tied.

836
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 1: And it's late in the game, and Scotty Hopson. I

837
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:47,279
Speaker 1: call Scotty's number to get downhill. He gets downhill, he

838
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:53,719
Speaker 1: gets filed. Um and um, he makes the first one

839
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:59,279
Speaker 1: and we go up one. Yeah. I have Wayne Chisholm

840
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:03,800
Speaker 1: and Brian Williams on the free throw line and Casey mrs.

841
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 1: That's a big mistake. They're both big kids. I should

842
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:09,919
Speaker 1: have had them both back. You got a one point lead,

843
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:13,839
Speaker 1: take them off the line, make or miss. Get your

844
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:20,040
Speaker 1: defense established. Scotty misses the second one. Both Brian and

845
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 1: Wayne go chasing down the rebound. Michigan State gets the rebound,

846
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 1: they outlet it, they get down the floor and with

847
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:32,200
Speaker 1: about three seconds left, maybe they get the ball to

848
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 1: the rim and JP Prince has called for a file.

849
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 1: Actually think he got it clean. If I just took

850
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 1: Brian and Wayne off the line, Um, we would have

851
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:48,560
Speaker 1: defended that. We'd have beat Michigan State. We'd have gone

852
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:53,440
Speaker 1: to Indianapolis, where Peyton Manning was the quarterback for the Colts,

853
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:57,080
Speaker 1: and we would have played the final four. The first

854
00:45:57,120 --> 00:45:59,879
Speaker 1: game he gets Butler the game Butler almost beat Duke

855
00:45:59,880 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 1: of the buzzer that have been that had been Uh,

856
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:09,239
Speaker 1: it had been us um um in that final four. Um,

857
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 1: and Peyton Manna would have been sitting on my bench

858
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 1: because obviously on the stadium. So how quickly after the

859
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:19,880
Speaker 1: game did you realize you had made that wrong decision

860
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:21,680
Speaker 1: to have both those guys on the free Was it

861
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:25,240
Speaker 1: like instantaneous in the locker room after no, the minute,

862
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 1: the minute we filed, the minute we found, the minute

863
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:30,239
Speaker 1: those guys chased the ball down and like, oh, I

864
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:34,360
Speaker 1: need to get him off the line and get him back. Um.

865
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 1: So you're that close to the final four. How long

866
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:39,520
Speaker 1: does it take to get over that game? UM? I'll

867
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:42,120
Speaker 1: let you know what I do. Yeah, you know, I

868
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:45,440
Speaker 1: meant because you think you could have won a national

869
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:48,080
Speaker 1: championship potentially that year, right, you go to the final four,

870
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:52,319
Speaker 1: Butler but Duke. I thought Duke was the only team, uh,

871
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:57,160
Speaker 1: that we could It was like West Virginia Butler, Duke

872
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:00,200
Speaker 1: and Michigan state it would have been Auburn. We would

873
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:01,960
Speaker 1: have played West Virginia. I'd say we would. I think

874
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 1: we would have beaten them, and then we would have

875
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:05,799
Speaker 1: gotten Duke in the Champions of Game. Duke was better

876
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:08,680
Speaker 1: than us Duke Duke Duke won the enough chapiship that year.

877
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:11,239
Speaker 1: But I would you know, obviously would like to, you know,

878
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:14,239
Speaker 1: had a shot at him when you lose your job

879
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:17,960
Speaker 1: at Tennessee, And you mentioned it earlier over I think

880
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:20,640
Speaker 1: the n C double a shortly thereafter made that not

881
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:24,480
Speaker 1: even a penalty, right, Um, in terms of having like

882
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:26,360
Speaker 1: a seventeen year old, I think it was a junior

883
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 1: over to the barbecue, as you mentioned. Uh, so you

884
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:33,320
Speaker 1: get in trouble, not for really the infraction, but lying

885
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:37,440
Speaker 1: about it. Do you still should Tennessee have stood behind you?

886
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:39,239
Speaker 1: You've seen a lot of coaches that have had a

887
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:43,240
Speaker 1: lot of different issues, UH that universities have stayed behind

888
00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:47,279
Speaker 1: stood behind them. That may have changed somewhat, Uh in

889
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:49,759
Speaker 1: the last you know, seven or eight years, maybe more

890
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:52,719
Speaker 1: so than back then. But do you wish Tennessee had

891
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:56,319
Speaker 1: stood behind you and supported you? Uh? And and if

892
00:47:56,320 --> 00:48:00,120
Speaker 1: they had, I'm assuming you still think you'd be at Tennessee. Yeah,

893
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:02,239
Speaker 1: I I think. Look, a couple of things happened at

894
00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:05,759
Speaker 1: that time. Um. You know, first of all, you know,

895
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 1: should Tennessee have fired Philip Falmer a year after he

896
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 1: went to the SEC championship game and almost beat l Sho,

897
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:16,239
Speaker 1: who won the national championship? Uh? And the answer is yes, Um.

898
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 1: Eight games later they fire him, um and and and

899
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 1: the reason why they fired Philip Falmer was because he

900
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:28,160
Speaker 1: beat everybody except he had a hard time beating this

901
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 1: guy that just got the job at Florida named Urban Meyer.

902
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:35,000
Speaker 1: And um, uh you know, and the guy who just

903
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 1: got the Alabama job. Yeah. Well, little did Tennessee realize

904
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:46,080
Speaker 1: at that time that nobody had beaten Urban Meyer would

905
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:48,440
Speaker 1: beat Urban Myers Saban. But they didn't know that at

906
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:51,799
Speaker 1: the time, and they should have. He owned Georgia and

907
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 1: South Carolina and Vanderbilt and Kentucky and everybody else he

908
00:48:56,800 --> 00:49:01,759
Speaker 1: played and um nine wins and the outback ball wasn't enough,

909
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:05,319
Speaker 1: all right, and and and and obviously they're still they're

910
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:08,200
Speaker 1: still cursed for it. And then you know, from my standpoint,

911
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:11,799
Speaker 1: the Tennessee fans were wonderful, Clay, absolutely wonderful. And I

912
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:15,200
Speaker 1: apologize to them for making a mistake. UM, But the

913
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:19,239
Speaker 1: leadership at Tennessee UM at that time, the board of trustees,

914
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:22,440
Speaker 1: the president, UM didn't stand behind me. I think Mike

915
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:25,440
Speaker 1: Campelton R. A. D. Tried but he wasn't able to.

916
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:28,680
Speaker 1: And UM No, it was it was, it was a

917
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:31,799
Speaker 1: it was. It was very hurtful. UM. I still love

918
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:34,000
Speaker 1: Tennessee because I love the fans there, I love the

919
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:37,879
Speaker 1: people there. UM. And and I gotta tell you, I'm

920
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:41,759
Speaker 1: glad that I am at Auburn. UM again got at

921
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:44,799
Speaker 1: a plan and I'm not saying it was his plan

922
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:47,680
Speaker 1: for me to make a mistake like that, but obviously

923
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:51,640
Speaker 1: saved me, offered me grace, and I wound up going

924
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:54,240
Speaker 1: to Auburn. And for me, this has been the great

925
00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:57,840
Speaker 1: This has been the greatest fit for me. UM. Auburn

926
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:01,239
Speaker 1: is a fantastic place. And by the way, if your

927
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:04,360
Speaker 1: kids don't go to Tennessee, they should, really they should

928
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:07,879
Speaker 1: really look seriously. Yeah, knowing who you are and knowing

929
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:10,319
Speaker 1: what you're all about being an Auburn man or an

930
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:15,920
Speaker 1: Auburn woman, loving God loving country, um Man, Auburn is

931
00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:19,720
Speaker 1: a We need more places like Auburn in our country.

932
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:23,719
Speaker 1: Our kids, and you know, country would be even better

933
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 1: off if we had more places like Auburn. It's it's

934
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:29,680
Speaker 1: interesting you say that, And I'm gonna come back to

935
00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:33,480
Speaker 1: in a sec how much beating up of yourself. You

936
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:35,120
Speaker 1: and I got to know each other. You would come

937
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:38,359
Speaker 1: on and break down, uh college basketball for us back

938
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:41,239
Speaker 1: when we're doing the three h L Show in Nashville,

939
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:44,200
Speaker 1: and you stayed in Knoxville and you took a job

940
00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:48,719
Speaker 1: outside of basketball and you're there close to the University

941
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:50,719
Speaker 1: of Tennessee. You had to sit out I think was

942
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:53,800
Speaker 1: it three years? Uh, where you're not allowed to coach.

943
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:58,000
Speaker 1: How much did you beat yourself up over that experience?

944
00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:01,440
Speaker 1: How tough was it to stay in Knoxville and be

945
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:04,200
Speaker 1: so close to a job that you would obviously loved

946
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:07,600
Speaker 1: while not knowing necessarily if you were going to get

947
00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:09,880
Speaker 1: that next job. And I'll ask you about how you

948
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:12,080
Speaker 1: came to pick Auburn and how that came together. But

949
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 1: how tough was those were those three years for you? Well? Uh,

950
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 1: they were tough. Um but but but but there's there

951
00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:21,640
Speaker 1: was one very simple reason behind it. I looked at

952
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:26,000
Speaker 1: one of the coaching job Donnie Nelson offered me the

953
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:29,040
Speaker 1: Dallas Legends job in the G League. UM, and I

954
00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:33,640
Speaker 1: almost took it. And I always appreciate coach Carlisle um

955
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:38,120
Speaker 1: and and and uh those guys for giving me that opportunity. Um,

956
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:40,520
Speaker 1: but I was a divorce dad, and I had an

957
00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:42,920
Speaker 1: eighth grader and a and a young one in high school.

958
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:46,160
Speaker 1: And I just couldn't leave Knoxville for that reason. I

959
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:49,120
Speaker 1: just I couldn't leave them. I couldn't take them with me,

960
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:52,759
Speaker 1: and I I didn't want to Um, you know, I

961
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:56,440
Speaker 1: didn't want to leave town, um, having just recently been divorced,

962
00:51:56,960 --> 00:51:59,680
Speaker 1: And so I had to stay in Knoxville. And Bill

963
00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:02,960
Speaker 1: said pon the HD Hackney company gave me an opportunity.

964
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:05,279
Speaker 1: You see those trucks running all over all over the

965
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:08,160
Speaker 1: place with that big H delivered stuff in the convenience

966
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:12,120
Speaker 1: stores that along with XM Radio, along with three h

967
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:15,319
Speaker 1: L along with ESPN. I worked about six jobs to

968
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:17,799
Speaker 1: try to you know, pay all the mortgages and pay

969
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:20,839
Speaker 1: all the things I had to pay, um and um.

970
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:24,280
Speaker 1: And then when Tennesse when Auburn came knocking. It really

971
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:26,640
Speaker 1: was partly a recommendation that Mike Hamilton made to his

972
00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:29,279
Speaker 1: friend J Jacobs who was the a d then and

973
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:31,640
Speaker 1: said you need to hire him. This guy is good.

974
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:36,360
Speaker 1: Character wasn't an issue. Um, it don't for better worse.

975
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:40,520
Speaker 1: It's our culture and our character our greatest strength and um.

976
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:43,440
Speaker 1: But the coaching staff that I put together, the men

977
00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:46,799
Speaker 1: I have around our kids, UM and um and so

978
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:51,400
Speaker 1: everything everything's worked out really really well for us, club blessed.

979
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 1: Remember when you took when you took the Auburn job,

980
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:57,680
Speaker 1: Remember us having a conversation. This is I don't think

981
00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:00,359
Speaker 1: you'd be upset about this now because you've have had

982
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:03,359
Speaker 1: tremendous success. But you said, hey, I did it at

983
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:06,880
Speaker 1: UH Southern Indiana, I did it at Wisconsin Milwaukee, I

984
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:09,040
Speaker 1: did it at Tennessee. I think I can do it

985
00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:12,440
Speaker 1: again at Auburn, but I'm not sure. Uh. And I

986
00:53:12,719 --> 00:53:18,200
Speaker 1: remember that that conversation, just because you're taking a new job,

987
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:20,920
Speaker 1: and that first couple of years at Auburn, I'm looking

988
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:24,920
Speaker 1: right now. You had losing records, You finished thirteenth in

989
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:28,800
Speaker 1: the SEC. You had everything rolling at Tennessee, the recruiting,

990
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:30,680
Speaker 1: you went to the Elite eight. You're a play away

991
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:33,759
Speaker 1: from the final four. How much self doubt did you

992
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 1: have early in your tenure at Auburn because I imagine

993
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:40,479
Speaker 1: finishing what four and fourteen and five and thirteen, those

994
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:44,600
Speaker 1: first two years had to be humbling for you. Um,

995
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:49,080
Speaker 1: you know what, You're absolutely accurate with every single word

996
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:53,000
Speaker 1: you used except the last one. Um. I am a

997
00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:55,880
Speaker 1: very humble person. UM. I know I don't act like it,

998
00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:58,560
Speaker 1: but I really am. And I'm not paying myself. I'm

999
00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:01,040
Speaker 1: not paying myself a compliment because I don't think a

1000
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:05,239
Speaker 1: ton of myself. I don't, um. And but you're right.

1001
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:09,239
Speaker 1: I had an immense self doubt. Like I went to

1002
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:11,920
Speaker 1: my I went to Jane said, Jay, listen, I've been

1003
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:16,480
Speaker 1: here two years. Um, I was out three. Um, what

1004
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:20,920
Speaker 1: I'm doing right now is not working, not cutting edge. Um.

1005
00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:23,319
Speaker 1: When I went to when I was at Milwaukee and

1006
00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:26,319
Speaker 1: my days at Tennessee what we were doing. It was

1007
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:28,759
Speaker 1: in fuego. I mean, people wanted to know what we

1008
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:30,319
Speaker 1: were doing and how we were doing it. We were

1009
00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:32,880
Speaker 1: on top or you know, or at least you know

1010
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:35,240
Speaker 1: for an up and comer, for not being a blue blood.

1011
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:42,560
Speaker 1: And absolutely I had tremendous self doubt. Um, and even

1012
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:46,200
Speaker 1: thought about, you know, man, I might I might have

1013
00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:50,400
Speaker 1: lost my touch, right maybe and UM, I wound up,

1014
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:54,520
Speaker 1: you know, recruiting a couple of good players, you know,

1015
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:58,560
Speaker 1: making a couple of adjustments on my staff, studying a

1016
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:02,279
Speaker 1: little bit, and UH got it back. And for the

1017
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:06,480
Speaker 1: last five years, nobody's won more. We won three championships

1018
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:09,080
Speaker 1: in five years at Auburn. We won more games than

1019
00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:11,560
Speaker 1: anybody in the league in the last five years. We've

1020
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:14,879
Speaker 1: beaten Kentucky seven years in a row. Now, we haven't

1021
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:16,920
Speaker 1: beat him every time we played them, probably been him

1022
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:19,400
Speaker 1: half of time. But we've I mean, we've done the

1023
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:23,040
Speaker 1: things that you need to do, UM to be considered

1024
00:55:23,040 --> 00:55:25,839
Speaker 1: one of the best programs in the SEC. I meant

1025
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:27,960
Speaker 1: to ask you another question back, because I do think

1026
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:30,280
Speaker 1: it it factors in here. This is wins and losses.

1027
00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:33,560
Speaker 1: I'm Clay Travis Bruce Pearl. Fox Sports Radio has the

1028
00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:36,520
Speaker 1: best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of

1029
00:55:36,560 --> 00:55:40,080
Speaker 1: our shows at Fox sports Radio dot com and within

1030
00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:42,560
Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app search f s R to

1031
00:55:42,719 --> 00:55:47,000
Speaker 1: listen live. You mentioned having young kids. How do you

1032
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:50,320
Speaker 1: balance being a dad with having and this could be

1033
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:53,640
Speaker 1: true for being a mom too, with having a highly

1034
00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:58,640
Speaker 1: intense and pressurized job that is so incredibly competitive. You

1035
00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:02,680
Speaker 1: seem to have, based on experience, a really good relationship

1036
00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:06,120
Speaker 1: by and large with your kids. How do you balance that?

1037
00:56:06,239 --> 00:56:08,719
Speaker 1: What advice would you give now you said your sixty two,

1038
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:11,120
Speaker 1: your kids are grown. Uh, there's a lot of people

1039
00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 1: who are listening to this right now that have young

1040
00:56:13,719 --> 00:56:16,480
Speaker 1: kids and they're trying to be successful professionally but also

1041
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:19,320
Speaker 1: get that work life balance. Do you have any words

1042
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:21,920
Speaker 1: of wisdom for people out there who were trying to

1043
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:25,880
Speaker 1: balance all of this? Yeah? You know. UM, we go

1044
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:29,840
Speaker 1: to work every single day basically so that our kids

1045
00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:33,359
Speaker 1: will have it better than we had it. Um, and

1046
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:37,960
Speaker 1: sometimes that takes us away from the precious ones were

1047
00:56:37,960 --> 00:56:43,120
Speaker 1: trying to take care of. Um. Honesty is the best policy.

1048
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:49,359
Speaker 1: My kids always knew where I was, and there were

1049
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:53,160
Speaker 1: trade offs. Um. I didn't have any fishing trips or

1050
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:56,480
Speaker 1: ski trips, not many of golf vacations with the boys.

1051
00:56:56,880 --> 00:57:01,600
Speaker 1: And I'm not complaining. Um, I worked and I hung

1052
00:57:01,600 --> 00:57:05,080
Speaker 1: out with my family. Now did I enjoy working? Did

1053
00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:06,600
Speaker 1: I go on a golf trip every now and then

1054
00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:11,360
Speaker 1: that was work related? Um? Yeah, But my kids always

1055
00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:13,160
Speaker 1: knew where I was and when I was away from

1056
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:16,440
Speaker 1: them and I had to miss something, um, we talked

1057
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:19,200
Speaker 1: about it. And I tried to get them to understand. Now,

1058
00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:21,800
Speaker 1: I didn't miss the parent teacher conference. I made as

1059
00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:27,880
Speaker 1: many games and plays and things that I possibly could

1060
00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:31,000
Speaker 1: make that took a priority, and my kids knew it.

1061
00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:33,160
Speaker 1: And then the other thing I did. And my dad

1062
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:35,320
Speaker 1: did this with me too. My dad took me. He

1063
00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:37,840
Speaker 1: worked every Saturday, but he took me to the office

1064
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:40,200
Speaker 1: on Saturday. I worked out in the warehouse while he

1065
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:42,520
Speaker 1: worked in the office on Saturdays, and it was a

1066
00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:44,680
Speaker 1: way for us to come and go together. Because he

1067
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:47,040
Speaker 1: worked six days a week, he could have gone in

1068
00:57:47,080 --> 00:57:50,280
Speaker 1: the office on Saturday and not taking me. I always

1069
00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:53,520
Speaker 1: took my kids on the bus. I always brought when

1070
00:57:53,560 --> 00:57:55,200
Speaker 1: I went on the road. I always took one of

1071
00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:57,080
Speaker 1: them with me. I had one when when I was

1072
00:57:57,120 --> 00:57:59,480
Speaker 1: in southern Indiana. Now when I got to Tennessee, not

1073
00:57:59,640 --> 00:58:02,640
Speaker 1: quite as much because of the way we traveled. Um,

1074
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:05,800
Speaker 1: But you know what, do the best. You can make

1075
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:08,760
Speaker 1: sure your kids know where you are and and if

1076
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:11,280
Speaker 1: you can't be there, make sure they at least understand

1077
00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:16,440
Speaker 1: why and and provide them with an explanation. What would

1078
00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:20,640
Speaker 1: you mentioned Auburn being such a fantastic place? What makes

1079
00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:23,680
Speaker 1: Auburn such a fantastic place in your mind. What do

1080
00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:26,920
Speaker 1: you wish the rest of the country was like like

1081
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:30,320
Speaker 1: Auburn is. What does Auburn do well? What would the country?

1082
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:33,800
Speaker 1: What could the country learn from Auburn and your experience? Well,

1083
00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:36,640
Speaker 1: you know what. First of all, um, as you know, Clay,

1084
00:58:36,680 --> 00:58:41,920
Speaker 1: I am conservative. Um. I grew up at Kenny Kennedy Democrat. Um.

1085
00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:46,400
Speaker 1: You know I'm I'm much more Republican leaning. Um. And

1086
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:49,240
Speaker 1: and I love our country and I'm a patriot, and

1087
00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:55,040
Speaker 1: I believe in values, and I believe the sanctity of life. Uh.

1088
00:58:55,280 --> 00:59:00,640
Speaker 1: I believe in God. Um. I pray before meals um

1089
00:59:00,680 --> 00:59:04,360
Speaker 1: and um. And I try to live a life where

1090
00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:06,520
Speaker 1: I'm doing the things that would give God a chance

1091
00:59:07,040 --> 00:59:12,320
Speaker 1: uh to to bless before it. Um. How you treat people, Um,

1092
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:14,600
Speaker 1: you know, the kindness that you show, the generosity of

1093
00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:19,840
Speaker 1: the show. Um you know, UM, that's kind of what

1094
00:59:19,880 --> 00:59:23,840
Speaker 1: Auburn is. UM. If you're interested in a different girl

1095
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:26,240
Speaker 1: every night, or going out to a different bar all

1096
00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:28,520
Speaker 1: the time, and if you want to run fast, then

1097
00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:30,800
Speaker 1: you need then you need to go somewhere else because

1098
00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:33,600
Speaker 1: you're not gonna fit in at Auburn. UM. Our student

1099
00:59:33,640 --> 00:59:36,600
Speaker 1: athletes are students. They're they're grinding, they're training, and they're working.

1100
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:38,840
Speaker 1: We're having fun while we're doing it. But you know,

1101
00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:41,760
Speaker 1: sometimes fun is going to watch Sunny Lee in a

1102
00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:45,720
Speaker 1: gymnastics meet, Ravan, going out to the bar and getting trashed. Now,

1103
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:47,840
Speaker 1: back when I went to Boston College, it was different,

1104
00:59:48,240 --> 00:59:50,200
Speaker 1: and it was sort of different then. You know, it

1105
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:52,800
Speaker 1: was like animal Farm. That was what college was. It

1106
00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:56,520
Speaker 1: was animal Farm. And you remember that movie right was

1107
00:59:56,760 --> 01:00:00,160
Speaker 1: not Animal Animal House, Animal House, Animal House, Animals, the

1108
01:00:00,200 --> 01:00:03,760
Speaker 1: book Animals, and and that was what I grew up

1109
01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:06,360
Speaker 1: thinking college was supposed to be. So how drunk could

1110
01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:07,880
Speaker 1: I get? You know, like I said, how many times

1111
01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:10,240
Speaker 1: could I streak? You know? That's what That's what That's what.

1112
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:12,120
Speaker 1: That's what I thought it was supposed to be. That

1113
01:00:12,280 --> 01:00:17,400
Speaker 1: is exactly opposite of what Auburn is. And um, you know,

1114
01:00:17,480 --> 01:00:20,360
Speaker 1: we're gonna stand at attention for the national anthem. We're

1115
01:00:20,400 --> 01:00:22,320
Speaker 1: gonna point our right hand over our heart and a

1116
01:00:22,480 --> 01:00:24,720
Speaker 1: left hand behind our back, and I'm gonna stay at

1117
01:00:24,720 --> 01:00:28,760
Speaker 1: attention until the flag leaves the floor and and um,

1118
01:00:29,680 --> 01:00:31,520
Speaker 1: you know what, and if you don't like it, get

1119
01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:34,200
Speaker 1: over it, and if and if and if and if

1120
01:00:34,240 --> 01:00:36,960
Speaker 1: you If you want to do something else, that's fine,

1121
01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:40,240
Speaker 1: it's up to you, but do not criticize me for

1122
01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:42,400
Speaker 1: doing what I feel is right. And that's one of

1123
01:00:42,440 --> 01:00:46,640
Speaker 1: the things that we lost to like like, um, you know,

1124
01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:50,600
Speaker 1: in my family, UM, I've got a couple of children

1125
01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:53,680
Speaker 1: that are way left to center, all right. I got

1126
01:00:53,680 --> 01:00:55,240
Speaker 1: a couple of children in a way right a center.

1127
01:00:55,320 --> 01:00:58,280
Speaker 1: And I'm actually kind of proud that that we're a

1128
01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:01,560
Speaker 1: mixed family, if you will. But we're gonna sit down

1129
01:01:01,600 --> 01:01:04,280
Speaker 1: over dinner and we're gonna have a conversation and we're

1130
01:01:04,280 --> 01:01:06,600
Speaker 1: not going to get elevated. And I'm I may not

1131
01:01:06,720 --> 01:01:09,360
Speaker 1: agree with what you think about what's going on in

1132
01:01:09,520 --> 01:01:12,360
Speaker 1: Ukraine right now, or what's going on in Israel right now,

1133
01:01:12,440 --> 01:01:14,520
Speaker 1: or what's going on at the border right now, or

1134
01:01:14,520 --> 01:01:17,120
Speaker 1: what's going on in Washington right now, but I'm gonna

1135
01:01:17,160 --> 01:01:20,320
Speaker 1: respect your opinion and I'm gonna listen to it, and

1136
01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:22,240
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna find eight ways to send it to

1137
01:01:22,480 --> 01:01:24,720
Speaker 1: to tell you that you're wrong, even though guess what,

1138
01:01:25,520 --> 01:01:29,000
Speaker 1: I don't agree with you. Um. The difference at Auburn

1139
01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:31,440
Speaker 1: is we should be able to share our thoughts in

1140
01:01:31,520 --> 01:01:35,920
Speaker 1: exchange of ideas, and at so many other places, particularly

1141
01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:38,520
Speaker 1: places that are more liberal. Uh. It's their way of

1142
01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:41,960
Speaker 1: the highway. And if you don't agree with them somehow,

1143
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:46,160
Speaker 1: you're either a racist, or are part of the basketball

1144
01:01:46,600 --> 01:01:51,600
Speaker 1: of deplorables um or or something that just is um

1145
01:01:51,600 --> 01:01:55,600
Speaker 1: not very complementary. By the way, I agree with almost

1146
01:01:55,640 --> 01:01:57,960
Speaker 1: every everything you said. It's not going to be a surprise.

1147
01:01:58,040 --> 01:01:59,800
Speaker 1: You and I see eye to eye on a lot

1148
01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:03,680
Speaker 1: of things. Let me ask you this. I love Charles Barkley. Um.

1149
01:02:03,800 --> 01:02:07,280
Speaker 1: He obviously is Auburn basketball. Prior to you, a lot

1150
01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:10,800
Speaker 1: of people when they heard Auburn basketball would think Charles Barkley.

1151
01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:13,520
Speaker 1: What is Charles Barkley like? What does he mean for

1152
01:02:13,560 --> 01:02:18,800
Speaker 1: Auburn basketball and the university as a whole? Charles Barkley

1153
01:02:18,880 --> 01:02:23,600
Speaker 1: is like this. When you are at a party and

1154
01:02:23,680 --> 01:02:26,880
Speaker 1: it's a crop room, there are people in that room,

1155
01:02:26,920 --> 01:02:29,560
Speaker 1: they're talking to you, and they're actually looking over your

1156
01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:32,440
Speaker 1: shoulder trying to see who the next best guest is

1157
01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:37,680
Speaker 1: that talking. When Charles Barkley is talking to you, he's

1158
01:02:37,760 --> 01:02:42,560
Speaker 1: looking at you, he's engaged with you, and most likely

1159
01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:49,160
Speaker 1: you're either the janitor, the bartender, the server and hold

1160
01:02:49,200 --> 01:02:52,440
Speaker 1: on a second. Michael Michael Jordan's, I'll be right with you.

1161
01:02:52,560 --> 01:02:55,440
Speaker 1: Hold on one second, like he'll finish his conversation with

1162
01:02:55,520 --> 01:03:00,240
Speaker 1: you before he gets to me or Michael Jordan's or

1163
01:03:00,280 --> 01:03:04,400
Speaker 1: anybody else in the room. He is genuine, He is kind.

1164
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:10,080
Speaker 1: He feels grateful to Auburn for having stayed with him

1165
01:03:10,120 --> 01:03:12,880
Speaker 1: at a time when he was young and uh, you know,

1166
01:03:13,200 --> 01:03:16,800
Speaker 1: got into some trouble and recognizes that Sonny Smith as

1167
01:03:16,840 --> 01:03:20,080
Speaker 1: his coach, Auburn as his university coach, Pat Die as

1168
01:03:20,080 --> 01:03:23,560
Speaker 1: its leader, helped get him from where he was to

1169
01:03:23,680 --> 01:03:27,840
Speaker 1: where he went. And um, you know, Charles Barkley is

1170
01:03:27,880 --> 01:03:33,840
Speaker 1: a great American. He does. And I've been fortunate to

1171
01:03:33,880 --> 01:03:36,560
Speaker 1: get go out to dinner with him a couple of times. Uh,

1172
01:03:36,720 --> 01:03:39,600
Speaker 1: we overlap. I don't know him perfectly well, but he

1173
01:03:39,640 --> 01:03:41,440
Speaker 1: gave I was out to dinner with him once, and

1174
01:03:41,480 --> 01:03:43,280
Speaker 1: I think you'll appreciate this advice. One of the best

1175
01:03:43,320 --> 01:03:46,680
Speaker 1: piece of advice I've ever gotten, Uh, he said, Clay. Uh,

1176
01:03:46,720 --> 01:03:49,520
Speaker 1: this was early in my radio career because the guys

1177
01:03:49,520 --> 01:03:51,680
Speaker 1: who worked down at Jocks, I think you probably know

1178
01:03:51,800 --> 01:03:55,280
Speaker 1: Lance Taylor, Ryan Jim Dunaway, Ryan Brown. They had a

1179
01:03:55,280 --> 01:03:57,760
Speaker 1: great show. Um, we were out to dinner with them,

1180
01:03:57,840 --> 01:03:59,960
Speaker 1: and they have Barkley on all the time because Lane

1181
01:04:00,120 --> 01:04:02,480
Speaker 1: has been buddies with Barkley for twenty some odd years.

1182
01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:06,120
Speaker 1: We're out at dinner, Lance, me and Barkley um in

1183
01:04:06,200 --> 01:04:10,240
Speaker 1: Birmingham and uh and Barkley said, Clay, you know, because

1184
01:04:10,240 --> 01:04:12,560
Speaker 1: we had just done the show. He said, I got

1185
01:04:12,560 --> 01:04:15,560
Speaker 1: great advice for you in media. He said, if you

1186
01:04:15,800 --> 01:04:17,680
Speaker 1: and I think this is great advice for life, but

1187
01:04:17,720 --> 01:04:19,800
Speaker 1: it certainly works in an industry where you might be

1188
01:04:19,840 --> 01:04:22,640
Speaker 1: in public eye sometimes. He said, if you worry about

1189
01:04:22,680 --> 01:04:25,880
Speaker 1: the people who don't like you, then the people who

1190
01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:30,320
Speaker 1: do like you won't like you anymore. And I just

1191
01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:33,440
Speaker 1: thought that was so incredibly profound. This is before social

1192
01:04:33,480 --> 01:04:35,840
Speaker 1: media had taken off. This is probably, you know, two

1193
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:39,400
Speaker 1: thousand six, two thousand seven. We're having this conversation and

1194
01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:42,080
Speaker 1: it makes more sense today than it even did back then.

1195
01:04:42,680 --> 01:04:45,640
Speaker 1: But I use that with my own kids, right, because

1196
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:48,160
Speaker 1: you're someone who's comfortable in your own skin. We've all

1197
01:04:48,160 --> 01:04:50,920
Speaker 1: seen your shirtless. For God's sakes, I liked I am

1198
01:04:51,040 --> 01:04:53,960
Speaker 1: very I am very comfortable in my own skin. For

1199
01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:55,640
Speaker 1: better or worse. I'm gonna tell you what I think,

1200
01:04:55,680 --> 01:04:57,440
Speaker 1: But if you disagree with me, that doesn't mean to

1201
01:04:57,480 --> 01:05:00,520
Speaker 1: your point on your your family, Like if somebody he says, hey,

1202
01:05:00,560 --> 01:05:03,000
Speaker 1: you're you're crazy, that's an idiot. I had a opinion.

1203
01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:05,960
Speaker 1: I'll laugh with you, you know, a click of beer glass.

1204
01:05:06,040 --> 01:05:08,280
Speaker 1: We can agree to disagree. It's not going to change

1205
01:05:08,320 --> 01:05:09,760
Speaker 1: the way that I feel about you on a one

1206
01:05:09,800 --> 01:05:13,200
Speaker 1: on one basis, and you're that way. And I think

1207
01:05:13,240 --> 01:05:15,480
Speaker 1: Barkley kind of distilled it right. I mean, that is

1208
01:05:15,520 --> 01:05:19,200
Speaker 1: a perfect advice, especially in the social media age, when

1209
01:05:19,240 --> 01:05:21,439
Speaker 1: everybody's terrified no matter what you do for a living,

1210
01:05:21,480 --> 01:05:23,400
Speaker 1: you're afraid of what you might say on Facebook. It's

1211
01:05:23,440 --> 01:05:25,640
Speaker 1: gonna cost you your job you say something on Twitter

1212
01:05:25,760 --> 01:05:28,120
Speaker 1: or Instagram or wherever it might be. And that leads

1213
01:05:28,120 --> 01:05:32,600
Speaker 1: me into this question recruiting and talking with kids, and

1214
01:05:32,640 --> 01:05:35,320
Speaker 1: you mentioned, you know, like every time your phone goes off,

1215
01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:37,360
Speaker 1: I'm sure you've looked down if it's two am and

1216
01:05:37,360 --> 01:05:39,880
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, you know, what might have gone on.

1217
01:05:40,040 --> 01:05:44,200
Speaker 1: You're sixty two years old. Our kids different now than

1218
01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:47,560
Speaker 1: they were when you started coaching. If so, how do

1219
01:05:47,640 --> 01:05:50,080
Speaker 1: they need coaching more now than they did when you

1220
01:05:50,120 --> 01:05:53,360
Speaker 1: were younger? How would you assess the trajectory of the

1221
01:05:53,400 --> 01:05:57,880
Speaker 1: country through the kids that you coach in your experience. Well,

1222
01:05:57,920 --> 01:06:01,840
Speaker 1: that's a great question. I think that. Um, I would

1223
01:06:01,880 --> 01:06:05,880
Speaker 1: say the kids have changed a little bit recently, and

1224
01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:08,440
Speaker 1: I'll tell you why in a second. But my general

1225
01:06:08,640 --> 01:06:11,360
Speaker 1: thought to you is, no, they haven't changed that much.

1226
01:06:11,840 --> 01:06:15,120
Speaker 1: They still want discipline, they still want to be held accountable,

1227
01:06:15,600 --> 01:06:17,480
Speaker 1: they still want to be coached, they still want to

1228
01:06:17,520 --> 01:06:21,000
Speaker 1: be pushed, they still want to be great. And I

1229
01:06:21,040 --> 01:06:24,040
Speaker 1: think that we think because of all of the things

1230
01:06:24,040 --> 01:06:26,720
Speaker 1: that go on, and including a lot of culture and

1231
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:32,080
Speaker 1: the transfer portals. And if it's not if my a,

1232
01:06:32,960 --> 01:06:35,480
Speaker 1: if my little league, this little league team isn't playing,

1233
01:06:35,560 --> 01:06:38,600
Speaker 1: isn't pitching me, I'm gonna go. My parents are gonna

1234
01:06:38,680 --> 01:06:40,400
Speaker 1: get me across town. I'm gonna go play for the

1235
01:06:40,400 --> 01:06:43,200
Speaker 1: other little league team. And rather than you know, we

1236
01:06:43,200 --> 01:06:48,800
Speaker 1: we we flee rather than fight. Um. You know so often, UM,

1237
01:06:48,840 --> 01:06:51,160
Speaker 1: but I think generally, and by the way, it ain't

1238
01:06:51,200 --> 01:06:54,880
Speaker 1: the kids fault. It's our fault. We haven't taught him,

1239
01:06:55,440 --> 01:06:58,200
Speaker 1: and and and we have not been great examples, and

1240
01:06:58,280 --> 01:07:01,479
Speaker 1: so quit blaming the kids when they screw up. It's

1241
01:07:01,560 --> 01:07:04,439
Speaker 1: it's our responsibility to coach them and teach them, and

1242
01:07:04,440 --> 01:07:07,680
Speaker 1: and and to be the adults you know in the room.

1243
01:07:07,720 --> 01:07:10,640
Speaker 1: The greatest challenge right now we have, Clay, is the

1244
01:07:10,720 --> 01:07:17,120
Speaker 1: social media is the platform, um, and the kids are

1245
01:07:17,120 --> 01:07:20,840
Speaker 1: spending an enormous amount of time on it and on

1246
01:07:20,880 --> 01:07:25,600
Speaker 1: their phones and uh and and the time they're spending

1247
01:07:25,720 --> 01:07:29,800
Speaker 1: doing that, they're spending a lot less time either going

1248
01:07:29,840 --> 01:07:34,560
Speaker 1: outside and playing and learning how to interact with one another. Uh.

1249
01:07:34,960 --> 01:07:37,600
Speaker 1: Or you know the days of you know, just going

1250
01:07:37,600 --> 01:07:40,280
Speaker 1: on a playground and just playing some ball, or you know,

1251
01:07:40,480 --> 01:07:43,920
Speaker 1: going out there and throwing a couple of sweatshirts as first, second,

1252
01:07:43,960 --> 01:07:47,360
Speaker 1: and third base and playing stickball versus you have an

1253
01:07:47,440 --> 01:07:51,400
Speaker 1: organized umpires and selling concessions and travel ball and all that.

1254
01:07:51,600 --> 01:07:54,040
Speaker 1: I know things have changed, but I'm old school, so

1255
01:07:54,120 --> 01:07:57,720
Speaker 1: we lost some of that. But if the kids have changed,

1256
01:07:57,840 --> 01:08:02,400
Speaker 1: it's not the kids fault. If I asked you the

1257
01:08:02,480 --> 01:08:04,600
Speaker 1: question about Tennessee, I want to ask you the question

1258
01:08:04,640 --> 01:08:07,760
Speaker 1: about Auburn. If you could go back and recoach any

1259
01:08:07,800 --> 01:08:10,120
Speaker 1: game at Auburn, which game would it be? And why

1260
01:08:10,320 --> 01:08:21,160
Speaker 1: is there one that immediately comes to mind? Um, you

1261
01:08:21,200 --> 01:08:23,639
Speaker 1: know it doesn't come right to mind. I don't know

1262
01:08:25,320 --> 01:08:28,160
Speaker 1: that I could replay the Virginia game again and I

1263
01:08:28,200 --> 01:08:29,840
Speaker 1: think we did the things that you're supposed to do

1264
01:08:29,840 --> 01:08:32,960
Speaker 1: down the stretch to win that game. Um. Obviously, was

1265
01:08:33,040 --> 01:08:35,519
Speaker 1: Virginia better than you? Is it easier if you lose

1266
01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:37,479
Speaker 1: to a team like you said, Duke was better than

1267
01:08:37,479 --> 01:08:39,160
Speaker 1: Tennessee the year you might have been able to go

1268
01:08:39,200 --> 01:08:41,280
Speaker 1: to the Final four? Do you think that uv a

1269
01:08:41,360 --> 01:08:43,400
Speaker 1: team was better if you played a hundred times, would

1270
01:08:43,400 --> 01:08:46,080
Speaker 1: they beat you more than they than you beat them?

1271
01:08:46,120 --> 01:08:48,040
Speaker 1: I think we I think it'd be pretty down close.

1272
01:08:48,200 --> 01:08:50,960
Speaker 1: I really do. UM. And And obviously at the end

1273
01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:52,519
Speaker 1: of the Virginia game, we had a couple of really

1274
01:08:52,520 --> 01:08:55,719
Speaker 1: tough calls. UM that that that prevented us from getting

1275
01:08:55,720 --> 01:09:00,320
Speaker 1: that call wind up being factors at the at the end,

1276
01:09:00,960 --> 01:09:03,880
Speaker 1: um UM. Maybe the last game that I that I

1277
01:09:03,920 --> 01:09:07,720
Speaker 1: coached against Miami, UM, we were the better team, we

1278
01:09:07,800 --> 01:09:10,880
Speaker 1: got upset by Amy. UM And I would have done

1279
01:09:10,880 --> 01:09:14,599
Speaker 1: a number of different things there, um differently, And so

1280
01:09:14,720 --> 01:09:16,920
Speaker 1: probably the last game I coached would would be the

1281
01:09:16,960 --> 01:09:21,720
Speaker 1: game that I would coach differently. What um, If you

1282
01:09:21,840 --> 01:09:25,040
Speaker 1: win and that you've been to the final four, how

1283
01:09:25,120 --> 01:09:27,639
Speaker 1: much different is your life if you win a national

1284
01:09:27,760 --> 01:09:31,760
Speaker 1: championship or you don't win a national championship in terms

1285
01:09:31,840 --> 01:09:36,960
Speaker 1: of the way you feel about yourself. Great question. Nothing, Um,

1286
01:09:37,160 --> 01:09:40,880
Speaker 1: wouldn't affect me at all, but the perception would be

1287
01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:43,840
Speaker 1: enormously different. Um, you get to the final four, you

1288
01:09:43,840 --> 01:09:46,920
Speaker 1: win a national championship, your perception is different. What's your

1289
01:09:46,920 --> 01:09:49,320
Speaker 1: perception of Bruce Pearl. Your perception of Bruce Pearl is

1290
01:09:49,560 --> 01:09:53,320
Speaker 1: what I did at Tennessee. You know six and tournaments,

1291
01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:55,360
Speaker 1: you know a couple of Sweet six teams and the

1292
01:09:55,400 --> 01:09:57,880
Speaker 1: lead eight one game in the final four. What's your

1293
01:09:57,880 --> 01:10:01,000
Speaker 1: perception me at Auburn. It's it's based in these championships,

1294
01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:04,920
Speaker 1: and and and and things along those lines, Um, and

1295
01:10:04,920 --> 01:10:07,320
Speaker 1: and and the more you do, the more your perception

1296
01:10:07,400 --> 01:10:11,519
Speaker 1: changes it. It really doesn't. It would not change my

1297
01:10:11,680 --> 01:10:16,559
Speaker 1: perception of me. Um. I'm just I don't. I don't

1298
01:10:16,680 --> 01:10:22,559
Speaker 1: see myself UM in that same light. UM, others perhaps do.

1299
01:10:23,640 --> 01:10:27,360
Speaker 1: UM And UM, I'm just trying to. I'm trying to

1300
01:10:27,360 --> 01:10:29,479
Speaker 1: win the next one. I'm just trying to. I'm just

1301
01:10:29,520 --> 01:10:31,400
Speaker 1: gonna try to win the next one. And you know,

1302
01:10:32,320 --> 01:10:35,679
Speaker 1: when I when I when I retire and I look

1303
01:10:35,720 --> 01:10:39,320
Speaker 1: back on it, UM, then all of a sudden, I

1304
01:10:39,360 --> 01:10:44,040
Speaker 1: think those championships will matter. UM more than they actually

1305
01:10:44,040 --> 01:10:46,639
Speaker 1: do right now and then and then then the biggest

1306
01:10:46,720 --> 01:10:49,240
Speaker 1: question would be, you know, how did I make How

1307
01:10:49,280 --> 01:10:52,120
Speaker 1: did I impact my coaches and their families lives? How

1308
01:10:52,160 --> 01:10:54,920
Speaker 1: do they impact my community? Did I make my community better?

1309
01:10:55,439 --> 01:10:58,559
Speaker 1: Did I that was I generous? Did I help people

1310
01:10:58,680 --> 01:11:02,280
Speaker 1: that were in need? Um? You know, did I help

1311
01:11:02,320 --> 01:11:07,440
Speaker 1: my student athletes become men and become better fathers? And um?

1312
01:11:07,520 --> 01:11:11,519
Speaker 1: And then did I utilize my platform, clay to try

1313
01:11:11,560 --> 01:11:15,880
Speaker 1: to make a difference in the world. And you know

1314
01:11:16,120 --> 01:11:19,120
Speaker 1: that's you know, one of the things that is I

1315
01:11:19,200 --> 01:11:22,719
Speaker 1: get myself in some trouble sometimes is I'm very active

1316
01:11:22,720 --> 01:11:26,840
Speaker 1: in social media about things involving Israel in the Middle East.

1317
01:11:27,439 --> 01:11:30,679
Speaker 1: And um, I get involved and on the political side

1318
01:11:30,680 --> 01:11:35,080
Speaker 1: of things because as a Jewish Man, when we said

1319
01:11:35,320 --> 01:11:39,880
Speaker 1: never again, there are limitations to what I can do

1320
01:11:41,000 --> 01:11:45,040
Speaker 1: to ensure that will be never again. But if there

1321
01:11:45,080 --> 01:11:49,479
Speaker 1: are atrocities taking place in China or in Ukraine or

1322
01:11:49,520 --> 01:11:54,120
Speaker 1: in the Middle East, that I cannot be silent, even

1323
01:11:54,120 --> 01:11:56,280
Speaker 1: if I'm perceived to be on the wrong side of

1324
01:11:56,280 --> 01:11:59,720
Speaker 1: an issue, or if my fans or people that you

1325
01:11:59,760 --> 01:12:02,280
Speaker 1: know in basketball say, look, you need to really worry

1326
01:12:02,320 --> 01:12:04,920
Speaker 1: about coaching. Uh. If you were so worried about that,

1327
01:12:04,920 --> 01:12:07,799
Speaker 1: you're beat in Miami. Instead, you're worried about the wrong stuff.

1328
01:12:08,360 --> 01:12:11,120
Speaker 1: It's not that I'm worried about it. It's just that

1329
01:12:11,960 --> 01:12:15,040
Speaker 1: for the people that are worried about it that don't

1330
01:12:15,080 --> 01:12:19,120
Speaker 1: have my platform, my voice, can give them hope that

1331
01:12:19,240 --> 01:12:22,040
Speaker 1: there are people talking about it. There are people that

1332
01:12:22,080 --> 01:12:24,559
Speaker 1: are pointing it out. There are people that are calling

1333
01:12:24,600 --> 01:12:29,680
Speaker 1: it out and trying to trying to prevent some of

1334
01:12:29,680 --> 01:12:33,800
Speaker 1: these things from you know, from happening from from from

1335
01:12:33,840 --> 01:12:38,439
Speaker 1: our country getting into a awful treaty, whether I ran,

1336
01:12:39,479 --> 01:12:43,559
Speaker 1: and putting billions of dollars into the pockets of a

1337
01:12:43,600 --> 01:12:47,320
Speaker 1: country and a leadership that is the sworn enemy of

1338
01:12:47,360 --> 01:12:51,720
Speaker 1: the State of israel I, just as as as as

1339
01:12:51,760 --> 01:12:55,920
Speaker 1: an ally of of of of the United States and

1340
01:12:56,080 --> 01:12:59,400
Speaker 1: one of its greatest allies. I don't even see how

1341
01:13:00,080 --> 01:13:04,200
Speaker 1: that's possible unless you really really believe that the people

1342
01:13:04,200 --> 01:13:06,880
Speaker 1: that you're sitting across the table from are telling you

1343
01:13:06,920 --> 01:13:10,040
Speaker 1: the truth that they really don't care about ballistic missiles

1344
01:13:10,160 --> 01:13:12,800
Speaker 1: are getting a nuclear weapon, or they really don't care

1345
01:13:12,840 --> 01:13:14,559
Speaker 1: about trying to find a way to sell their oil

1346
01:13:15,160 --> 01:13:18,720
Speaker 1: uh through the Russians and having that be Uh. An

1347
01:13:18,760 --> 01:13:22,240
Speaker 1: absolutely back door for the for the Russians to be

1348
01:13:22,280 --> 01:13:24,960
Speaker 1: able to avoid all these economic sanctions that we're putting

1349
01:13:24,960 --> 01:13:28,840
Speaker 1: on them and Iran. And oh, we're letting the Russians

1350
01:13:29,240 --> 01:13:33,439
Speaker 1: and the Chinese negotiate a nuclear treaty with Iran that's

1351
01:13:33,439 --> 01:13:37,519
Speaker 1: going to affect all of our Abraham Accord allies and Israel.

1352
01:13:38,479 --> 01:13:40,639
Speaker 1: We're we're doing it. Oh. And by the way, we're

1353
01:13:40,640 --> 01:13:43,160
Speaker 1: not allowed in the room like in other words, we

1354
01:13:43,200 --> 01:13:46,960
Speaker 1: go to Vienna, like the American delegation, we sit in

1355
01:13:47,000 --> 01:13:51,000
Speaker 1: another room. You are, so you are so well informed

1356
01:13:51,040 --> 01:13:53,879
Speaker 1: on this, by the way, and and I'm nodding along

1357
01:13:53,920 --> 01:13:57,080
Speaker 1: as you're speaking about all this, uh, and it makes

1358
01:13:57,120 --> 01:13:58,800
Speaker 1: me want to unpack this a little bit. So let

1359
01:13:58,800 --> 01:14:01,600
Speaker 1: me start here. We did you go to Israel for

1360
01:14:01,640 --> 01:14:03,960
Speaker 1: the first time? We talked early on in this conversation.

1361
01:14:04,000 --> 01:14:06,799
Speaker 1: I'm Clay Travis, He's Bruce Pearl. This is wins and Losses.

1362
01:14:07,280 --> 01:14:10,599
Speaker 1: We talked about growing up for you, uh, in Boston

1363
01:14:10,840 --> 01:14:15,000
Speaker 1: and going to Boston College, being Jewish, experiencing what that

1364
01:14:15,080 --> 01:14:17,880
Speaker 1: was like, the divisions of Boston, and you're a kid

1365
01:14:18,000 --> 01:14:22,280
Speaker 1: growing up bringing people together through sports. When did you

1366
01:14:22,320 --> 01:14:24,519
Speaker 1: go to Israel for the first time, and I know

1367
01:14:24,600 --> 01:14:29,519
Speaker 1: you have, uh, you have coached in athletics in Israel.

1368
01:14:30,120 --> 01:14:33,320
Speaker 1: Uh what has that experience been like for you in

1369
01:14:33,439 --> 01:14:39,599
Speaker 1: terms of formulating and defining you as an adult man class?

1370
01:14:40,080 --> 01:14:43,439
Speaker 1: I'm grateful that you asked that question. The first time

1371
01:14:43,479 --> 01:14:47,720
Speaker 1: I went to Israel was in nineteen sixty seven when

1372
01:14:47,720 --> 01:14:50,519
Speaker 1: I was in Boston, sitting in the den of my

1373
01:14:50,600 --> 01:14:55,320
Speaker 1: grandfather as seven years old, and he's watching TV. So

1374
01:14:55,360 --> 01:14:58,439
Speaker 1: I'm actually not in Israel. I'm actually in Boston. My

1375
01:14:58,479 --> 01:15:01,840
Speaker 1: grandfather was a plumber. It's a strong man, a tough man,

1376
01:15:02,680 --> 01:15:06,439
Speaker 1: and uh, a quiet man, a man that kept kosher,

1377
01:15:06,840 --> 01:15:10,160
Speaker 1: that went to services on a regular basis. Um, uh

1378
01:15:10,280 --> 01:15:16,280
Speaker 1: my idol, and uh he was weeping watching the television set.

1379
01:15:16,320 --> 01:15:19,880
Speaker 1: In nineteen seven, Papa went to bed really early because

1380
01:15:19,880 --> 01:15:22,639
Speaker 1: he got up really early every every night. So after supper,

1381
01:15:23,000 --> 01:15:26,680
Speaker 1: Papa would wash up, and very shortly after supper and

1382
01:15:26,720 --> 01:15:29,439
Speaker 1: the sun went down, Papa would go to bed. But

1383
01:15:29,439 --> 01:15:33,160
Speaker 1: but this night he was up late and he was crying.

1384
01:15:33,240 --> 01:15:34,920
Speaker 1: In a seven year old I walked up to Pappa, said,

1385
01:15:34,920 --> 01:15:37,360
Speaker 1: Pappa was wrong, what are you crying about? He papped

1386
01:15:37,360 --> 01:15:40,479
Speaker 1: me on his lap and we watched the news, and

1387
01:15:40,520 --> 01:15:42,760
Speaker 1: it was it was the Sixth Day War, and he

1388
01:15:42,800 --> 01:15:46,040
Speaker 1: told me about Israel. He told me how important the

1389
01:15:46,080 --> 01:15:49,480
Speaker 1: state of Israel was, and that if Israel had existed

1390
01:15:49,840 --> 01:15:56,240
Speaker 1: when his family was fleeing Ukraine, that if Israel was

1391
01:15:56,240 --> 01:15:58,760
Speaker 1: was existed back in the twenties and the thirties and

1392
01:15:58,760 --> 01:16:01,800
Speaker 1: the forties, the six million Jews that were murdered in

1393
01:16:01,800 --> 01:16:06,120
Speaker 1: the Holocaust may have only been a million because they

1394
01:16:06,120 --> 01:16:08,439
Speaker 1: would have had a place to go and be safe.

1395
01:16:08,880 --> 01:16:11,280
Speaker 1: Many tried to get into this country. My puppet emigrated

1396
01:16:11,280 --> 01:16:14,000
Speaker 1: to this country in nineteen thirty two. He was fourteen

1397
01:16:14,080 --> 01:16:16,720
Speaker 1: years old. He became a citizen when he when was

1398
01:16:16,800 --> 01:16:19,720
Speaker 1: when he when he was in his mid thirties, and

1399
01:16:19,760 --> 01:16:22,000
Speaker 1: he just was afraid to go to sleep because he

1400
01:16:22,080 --> 01:16:24,519
Speaker 1: was afraid that when he woke up, Israel would not

1401
01:16:24,560 --> 01:16:29,639
Speaker 1: be there. Because he explained how Israel's was surrounded by

1402
01:16:29,720 --> 01:16:34,160
Speaker 1: enemies that wanted her. They wanted Jerusalem. They wanted it

1403
01:16:34,200 --> 01:16:37,800
Speaker 1: from the river to the sea, and they wanted it

1404
01:16:37,840 --> 01:16:40,639
Speaker 1: from sixty seven. They wanted it in seventy three during

1405
01:16:40,640 --> 01:16:44,439
Speaker 1: the Keypool War. And you know what, some of them

1406
01:16:44,479 --> 01:16:50,240
Speaker 1: still want it now and they can't have it. When

1407
01:16:50,240 --> 01:16:53,439
Speaker 1: did you go to Israel for the first time physically. Yep.

1408
01:16:54,160 --> 01:16:57,080
Speaker 1: I'm almost embarrassed to say that it wasn't until two

1409
01:16:57,160 --> 01:17:00,960
Speaker 1: thousand and nine. Um, why did it take you that long?

1410
01:17:01,000 --> 01:17:03,759
Speaker 1: And why did you go for the first time? Because

1411
01:17:04,320 --> 01:17:08,200
Speaker 1: my plan was to either join the army here in

1412
01:17:08,200 --> 01:17:11,240
Speaker 1: this country, uh and serve for a year, or actually

1413
01:17:11,280 --> 01:17:13,760
Speaker 1: go to Israel and serve for one year. That was

1414
01:17:13,800 --> 01:17:17,519
Speaker 1: my plan. And then as I as I mentioned to

1415
01:17:17,600 --> 01:17:20,639
Speaker 1: you before, I'm a twenty one year old senior Boston

1416
01:17:20,720 --> 01:17:24,160
Speaker 1: College still with the plan of either going to United

1417
01:17:24,200 --> 01:17:27,599
Speaker 1: States military or the Israeli married. I didn't hadn't decide

1418
01:17:27,680 --> 01:17:30,280
Speaker 1: which one when Dr Tom Davis offered me a job

1419
01:17:30,320 --> 01:17:33,800
Speaker 1: to go within the Stanford in March of my senior year,

1420
01:17:34,360 --> 01:17:40,200
Speaker 1: and so that thought of serving either my country or

1421
01:17:40,479 --> 01:17:44,640
Speaker 1: Israel um went away and I never went back. I

1422
01:17:44,640 --> 01:17:47,120
Speaker 1: went back in two thousand and nine where I coached

1423
01:17:47,160 --> 01:17:51,160
Speaker 1: in the Maccabi Games. I coached my son Stephen, and

1424
01:17:51,320 --> 01:17:54,320
Speaker 1: Uh we won the gold medal. We beat Israel and

1425
01:17:54,400 --> 01:17:57,040
Speaker 1: overtime in the gold medal game. And thank god, it's

1426
01:17:57,080 --> 01:17:59,479
Speaker 1: really hard to beat Israel and Israel, but we managed

1427
01:17:59,520 --> 01:18:03,120
Speaker 1: to do it gime of basketball and m and since

1428
01:18:03,160 --> 01:18:07,120
Speaker 1: that time. I've been Israel a couple more times. I'm

1429
01:18:07,160 --> 01:18:10,639
Speaker 1: going again in May, and I'm going again in August

1430
01:18:10,680 --> 01:18:13,880
Speaker 1: with my team. I'm bringing the Auburn basketball team to

1431
01:18:14,160 --> 01:18:19,400
Speaker 1: Israel because I want my players to see the diversity,

1432
01:18:19,560 --> 01:18:22,840
Speaker 1: to see that it is not an apartheid state, to

1433
01:18:22,960 --> 01:18:26,360
Speaker 1: see that about half the population in the state of

1434
01:18:26,439 --> 01:18:30,280
Speaker 1: Israel are almost as dark as they are, and I

1435
01:18:30,320 --> 01:18:34,120
Speaker 1: want them to unlearn some of the lies that they've

1436
01:18:34,120 --> 01:18:37,400
Speaker 1: been told. Um and then maybe someday they want to

1437
01:18:37,400 --> 01:18:40,400
Speaker 1: come back there and play basketball, because, other than the NBA,

1438
01:18:40,640 --> 01:18:41,800
Speaker 1: one of the one of the one of the best

1439
01:18:41,800 --> 01:18:45,400
Speaker 1: places to play professionally is in Israel. What was the

1440
01:18:45,439 --> 01:18:48,679
Speaker 1: experience like to win with your son in two thousand

1441
01:18:48,760 --> 01:18:52,759
Speaker 1: nine in Israel? Danny Grunfeld was on the team Ernie's

1442
01:18:52,800 --> 01:18:57,200
Speaker 1: sun Um, my son Stephen. We had some great friends

1443
01:18:57,840 --> 01:19:00,840
Speaker 1: that were on that team. Todd Gold then, who was

1444
01:19:00,920 --> 01:19:04,640
Speaker 1: a new head coach at Florida, played for me on

1445
01:19:04,680 --> 01:19:07,960
Speaker 1: that team. Todd was on assistance. Yeah, he was one

1446
01:19:07,960 --> 01:19:10,720
Speaker 1: of his assistance at Auburn when I got the Auburn job.

1447
01:19:10,800 --> 01:19:13,000
Speaker 1: Todd is a very very dear friend. Is gonna do

1448
01:19:13,040 --> 01:19:17,679
Speaker 1: a great job for the gate is um and um man.

1449
01:19:17,680 --> 01:19:20,000
Speaker 1: It was just an honor to where the USA, you know,

1450
01:19:20,080 --> 01:19:22,120
Speaker 1: and it was honored for me to take those young

1451
01:19:22,160 --> 01:19:27,559
Speaker 1: men over there and learn more about their roots. And

1452
01:19:27,760 --> 01:19:31,280
Speaker 1: you know. And and again, I have a love from

1453
01:19:31,280 --> 01:19:34,160
Speaker 1: my country, the United States of America that that that

1454
01:19:34,360 --> 01:19:39,880
Speaker 1: is different than my love for Israel. I'm grateful for Israel. UM.

1455
01:19:40,000 --> 01:19:44,240
Speaker 1: I owe everything to this country. I would die for

1456
01:19:44,280 --> 01:19:48,360
Speaker 1: this country. UM. I probably would give my life for

1457
01:19:48,439 --> 01:19:53,040
Speaker 1: Israel as well. UM. But I want I think the

1458
01:19:53,080 --> 01:19:56,479
Speaker 1: way you get to feel that way is by going

1459
01:19:56,520 --> 01:20:00,080
Speaker 1: over there and experiencing it. And unfortunately, Clay, just like

1460
01:20:00,160 --> 01:20:03,439
Speaker 1: so many things that you hear and read, it's it's

1461
01:20:03,560 --> 01:20:06,280
Speaker 1: people want to know the truth about it, and it's

1462
01:20:06,320 --> 01:20:09,240
Speaker 1: so very, very difficult to get the truth. I'll just

1463
01:20:09,320 --> 01:20:10,960
Speaker 1: put it to you in this in this context, there

1464
01:20:10,960 --> 01:20:14,479
Speaker 1: are nine million people in Israel. There are six million

1465
01:20:14,560 --> 01:20:18,920
Speaker 1: Jewish people, and there are three million Arabs living in

1466
01:20:18,960 --> 01:20:22,400
Speaker 1: the State of Israel. About two million of those Arabs

1467
01:20:22,439 --> 01:20:26,599
Speaker 1: are you are Israeli citizens, and most of them live

1468
01:20:27,600 --> 01:20:31,160
Speaker 1: far better quality of life than the Arabs that live

1469
01:20:31,360 --> 01:20:36,280
Speaker 1: in the surrounding countries in Egypt or Lebanon or Syria

1470
01:20:36,400 --> 01:20:39,680
Speaker 1: or Iraq or Iran or whatever. There might be a

1471
01:20:39,760 --> 01:20:44,960
Speaker 1: duct in Jews if any they're not allowed. Jews are allowed.

1472
01:20:45,200 --> 01:20:47,840
Speaker 1: I want to go. I've never been to Israel. I mean,

1473
01:20:47,880 --> 01:20:50,320
Speaker 1: I love to travel. I would love to experience. It's

1474
01:20:50,400 --> 01:20:53,200
Speaker 1: it's on my list to go. Uh, you know I

1475
01:20:53,240 --> 01:20:58,960
Speaker 1: was raised. Yeah, guess what next? Next? May? Next? May.

1476
01:20:59,200 --> 01:21:01,240
Speaker 1: I don't know if you know Governor Billy very well,

1477
01:21:01,600 --> 01:21:04,000
Speaker 1: I do. I do. He's an auburn guy. I'm sure

1478
01:21:04,040 --> 01:21:07,400
Speaker 1: that's how you do. Yeah, and he's an awesome guy

1479
01:21:07,560 --> 01:21:10,400
Speaker 1: and um, you know, depending on how things are in

1480
01:21:10,400 --> 01:21:12,760
Speaker 1: his state, because he would never leave unless things were

1481
01:21:12,800 --> 01:21:16,320
Speaker 1: in a great spot. Billy wants to come to Israel

1482
01:21:16,400 --> 01:21:18,479
Speaker 1: with us as well. You did you need to come

1483
01:21:18,479 --> 01:21:21,439
Speaker 1: on that trip? I would. I'd love to so love

1484
01:21:22,240 --> 01:21:25,479
Speaker 1: uh to walk where Jesus walked and uh with you

1485
01:21:25,960 --> 01:21:28,920
Speaker 1: and your your family and uh, that'd be such a

1486
01:21:28,960 --> 01:21:32,960
Speaker 1: cool trip. That's May of May have twenty three, Yes, sir,

1487
01:21:33,640 --> 01:21:35,920
Speaker 1: I'm in. I'm gonna. I'm gonna. I'm literally writing it

1488
01:21:35,960 --> 01:21:38,040
Speaker 1: down right now, May have twenty three. I want to

1489
01:21:38,080 --> 01:21:40,479
Speaker 1: make that trip. I'd love to go. I've never been. Um,

1490
01:21:40,520 --> 01:21:42,280
Speaker 1: it's a place that I've always wanted to go and

1491
01:21:42,320 --> 01:21:45,679
Speaker 1: you obviously would be able to help show us around

1492
01:21:45,840 --> 01:21:47,680
Speaker 1: a couple more questions. First of all, I appreciate it

1493
01:21:47,680 --> 01:21:49,240
Speaker 1: all the time. I know you're at the Final four.

1494
01:21:49,320 --> 01:21:50,960
Speaker 1: There's a ton of things going on down there. I'm

1495
01:21:51,000 --> 01:21:54,480
Speaker 1: Clay Travis, He's Bruce Pearl. It's wins and losses. Um,

1496
01:21:54,600 --> 01:21:58,160
Speaker 1: you mentioned coaching in in uh in Israel with Stephen

1497
01:21:58,160 --> 01:22:02,720
Speaker 1: who's on your coaching staff. Now, great guy, uh maybe

1498
01:22:02,760 --> 01:22:06,320
Speaker 1: one day will be a head coach himself. What advice

1499
01:22:06,360 --> 01:22:09,200
Speaker 1: would you give everybody out there? I coach little league baseball,

1500
01:22:09,240 --> 01:22:11,400
Speaker 1: a little league basketball. I've done it all with my boys.

1501
01:22:12,560 --> 01:22:16,600
Speaker 1: How do you coach your son? What advice would you

1502
01:22:16,600 --> 01:22:18,280
Speaker 1: give for people out there who I met? A lot

1503
01:22:18,280 --> 01:22:21,120
Speaker 1: of them are listening right now. How do you coach

1504
01:22:21,240 --> 01:22:24,800
Speaker 1: your son? How? How did you find it? Not only

1505
01:22:24,840 --> 01:22:26,800
Speaker 1: you know, like I'm sure you uh, you know in

1506
01:22:26,800 --> 01:22:28,960
Speaker 1: in college right where he's on the team with you

1507
01:22:29,000 --> 01:22:32,479
Speaker 1: at the University of Tennessee. And how is it more

1508
01:22:32,560 --> 01:22:36,400
Speaker 1: difficult to coach or have UH coach your son when

1509
01:22:36,439 --> 01:22:38,920
Speaker 1: he's a member of the team, or more difficult to

1510
01:22:39,040 --> 01:22:41,240
Speaker 1: be the head coach and have your son as an

1511
01:22:41,240 --> 01:22:44,880
Speaker 1: assistant coach on the staff. I'm curious what the dynamics

1512
01:22:44,920 --> 01:22:49,040
Speaker 1: of that are. Like, Yeah, well it is hard to

1513
01:22:49,080 --> 01:22:52,280
Speaker 1: coach your son. Uh it is way easier to let

1514
01:22:52,280 --> 01:22:57,240
Speaker 1: somebody else coach him. Uh, it is hard. Um. You know,

1515
01:22:57,320 --> 01:23:01,080
Speaker 1: I I love to tell this story, but you know, UM,

1516
01:23:01,080 --> 01:23:03,599
Speaker 1: whether it was when he was a kid or not,

1517
01:23:03,840 --> 01:23:06,960
Speaker 1: you know, Stephen always threw his bat, he filed out

1518
01:23:07,000 --> 01:23:10,200
Speaker 1: when we lost or or or or or or or

1519
01:23:10,200 --> 01:23:12,360
Speaker 1: he cried when we when he filed out or when

1520
01:23:12,360 --> 01:23:16,040
Speaker 1: we lost. UM. And I always tell parents I'd rather

1521
01:23:16,080 --> 01:23:18,559
Speaker 1: teach him, I'd rather try and teach him to care

1522
01:23:19,040 --> 01:23:22,880
Speaker 1: a little less than the care. Um. The kids that

1523
01:23:22,960 --> 01:23:25,040
Speaker 1: did know whether we what are lost and what the

1524
01:23:25,080 --> 01:23:27,320
Speaker 1: score was, and I didn't know whether to be happy

1525
01:23:27,400 --> 01:23:29,920
Speaker 1: or sad, win or lose. Those kids I had a

1526
01:23:29,920 --> 01:23:32,320
Speaker 1: real problem with. UM. I didn't have a problem with

1527
01:23:32,360 --> 01:23:34,240
Speaker 1: a kid that threw his bad or cried we got beat.

1528
01:23:34,520 --> 01:23:36,559
Speaker 1: I could we could manage that, We could channel that

1529
01:23:37,000 --> 01:23:41,519
Speaker 1: that anger. UM. The advice would be this, just trying

1530
01:23:41,520 --> 01:23:43,760
Speaker 1: not to teach your treat your kid worse than you

1531
01:23:43,800 --> 01:23:47,919
Speaker 1: treat the other kids. Try and be fair because although

1532
01:23:48,240 --> 01:23:52,680
Speaker 1: some will criticize you for favoring your kid, in reality,

1533
01:23:53,000 --> 01:23:56,800
Speaker 1: we don't We actually are harder on our kid. He

1534
01:23:56,840 --> 01:23:59,719
Speaker 1: should be playing shortstoppable, playing at second base. He should

1535
01:23:59,760 --> 01:24:02,800
Speaker 1: be and third. We bat him sixth um, because we're

1536
01:24:02,840 --> 01:24:08,760
Speaker 1: afraid that, you know, maybe somebody would accuse us of favoritism. Um,

1537
01:24:08,800 --> 01:24:11,040
Speaker 1: and so trying not to be harder on him. I

1538
01:24:11,040 --> 01:24:14,000
Speaker 1: remember one time, after Stephen didn't play very well, I

1539
01:24:14,080 --> 01:24:16,000
Speaker 1: got in the car. I said, who do you want

1540
01:24:16,000 --> 01:24:18,559
Speaker 1: to talk to your dad or your coach? He said,

1541
01:24:18,600 --> 01:24:19,680
Speaker 1: I don't want to talk to either one of you.

1542
01:24:23,880 --> 01:24:27,599
Speaker 1: That is fantastic. Um. What about coaching with your son

1543
01:24:28,120 --> 01:24:31,439
Speaker 1: compared to coaching your son now he's on your staff?

1544
01:24:31,479 --> 01:24:36,160
Speaker 1: How is that different? Easier? It's a lot easier, Um,

1545
01:24:36,200 --> 01:24:39,320
Speaker 1: you know, and and and and and and look, no

1546
01:24:39,360 --> 01:24:46,920
Speaker 1: matter what your life's greatest accomplishments are, they are the

1547
01:24:46,960 --> 01:24:51,519
Speaker 1: greatest accomplishments because of not what you achieved, but who

1548
01:24:51,560 --> 01:24:55,760
Speaker 1: you achieved them with. And so that's why, you know,

1549
01:24:55,880 --> 01:25:01,200
Speaker 1: weddings are certain celebrations of life, births of old um.

1550
01:25:01,439 --> 01:25:05,320
Speaker 1: You know, things winning a championship, when you do it

1551
01:25:05,360 --> 01:25:08,479
Speaker 1: with your coaches and your players and your wife and

1552
01:25:08,560 --> 01:25:13,120
Speaker 1: your kids, they just it's so much more meaningful. And

1553
01:25:13,200 --> 01:25:16,439
Speaker 1: so it is awesome coaching with Stephen, and he is.

1554
01:25:16,600 --> 01:25:18,320
Speaker 1: He's ready to be a great head coach someday. And

1555
01:25:18,640 --> 01:25:20,479
Speaker 1: I'm open he's gonna be the next coach at Auburn.

1556
01:25:21,880 --> 01:25:25,360
Speaker 1: If you how many more year sixty two? I'm sure

1557
01:25:25,400 --> 01:25:28,639
Speaker 1: you're looking out now into the future. How many more

1558
01:25:28,760 --> 01:25:32,120
Speaker 1: years do you think you can coach at a high level?

1559
01:25:32,160 --> 01:25:34,559
Speaker 1: You mentioned when you came back to Auburn you thought

1560
01:25:34,560 --> 01:25:36,120
Speaker 1: for a couple of years. Hey, I'm not sure if

1561
01:25:36,120 --> 01:25:38,400
Speaker 1: I'm going to get the change, get the turn. You

1562
01:25:38,439 --> 01:25:42,400
Speaker 1: obviously have things rolling in terms of sec success. How

1563
01:25:42,400 --> 01:25:44,240
Speaker 1: many years do you see into the future that you

1564
01:25:44,240 --> 01:25:47,920
Speaker 1: think you can coach at a high level? Clay, as

1565
01:25:47,960 --> 01:25:53,120
Speaker 1: long as I can stay healthy and I can continue

1566
01:25:53,120 --> 01:25:56,960
Speaker 1: to compete, uh, and and give our kids a chance

1567
01:25:57,000 --> 01:26:00,840
Speaker 1: to be successful. Um, I'll coach, um, but I'm not

1568
01:26:00,920 --> 01:26:06,800
Speaker 1: gonna be one of those guys that's coaching um. UM.

1569
01:26:06,800 --> 01:26:10,280
Speaker 1: You know in my seventies, for example, no chance. Um.

1570
01:26:10,400 --> 01:26:15,760
Speaker 1: So I've got an eight year contract. I'm sixty two. UM,

1571
01:26:15,800 --> 01:26:17,479
Speaker 1: I don't know that. I don't know that I make

1572
01:26:17,520 --> 01:26:20,640
Speaker 1: it all eight um. But I don't worry about Just

1573
01:26:20,720 --> 01:26:22,000
Speaker 1: take it one year at a time, take it one

1574
01:26:22,040 --> 01:26:24,600
Speaker 1: day at a time. But I can tell you in

1575
01:26:24,680 --> 01:26:30,680
Speaker 1: my crystal ball that I have to make up for

1576
01:26:30,760 --> 01:26:33,400
Speaker 1: what I lack in all the things that I lack

1577
01:26:34,040 --> 01:26:37,080
Speaker 1: with effort and energy. And so as long as I

1578
01:26:37,080 --> 01:26:39,920
Speaker 1: could put forth the effort and energy and we're competitive,

1579
01:26:40,200 --> 01:26:46,000
Speaker 1: I'll keep coaching. You have one game that you can

1580
01:26:46,040 --> 01:26:50,479
Speaker 1: pick anyone to coach for you, your life is on

1581
01:26:50,520 --> 01:26:55,360
Speaker 1: the line. Which coach are you picking and why to

1582
01:26:55,840 --> 01:26:57,840
Speaker 1: win that game? I always think this is a fun

1583
01:26:57,920 --> 01:27:01,639
Speaker 1: question for coaches. You can't pick yourself. Who would you pick?

1584
01:27:01,640 --> 01:27:04,439
Speaker 1: Who do you think would be that guy that you

1585
01:27:04,479 --> 01:27:08,320
Speaker 1: would select? Yeah, if, first of all, there's no chance

1586
01:27:08,320 --> 01:27:12,080
Speaker 1: I picked myself and my life depended on it, it'd

1587
01:27:12,080 --> 01:27:17,040
Speaker 1: be Rippettino. I think Rippettino. Um is the best I've

1588
01:27:17,080 --> 01:27:20,559
Speaker 1: ever done up against um. And the reason why is

1589
01:27:21,200 --> 01:27:25,040
Speaker 1: he knows what he's doing. But he also knows what

1590
01:27:25,080 --> 01:27:28,639
Speaker 1: you're doing, almost better than you know what you're doing.

1591
01:27:29,479 --> 01:27:32,000
Speaker 1: He knows why you're doing it, and he knows how

1592
01:27:32,040 --> 01:27:35,120
Speaker 1: to prevent you from doing it. Um. He's been He's

1593
01:27:35,120 --> 01:27:39,160
Speaker 1: been my toughest matchup. Last couple of questions here for

1594
01:27:39,200 --> 01:27:42,400
Speaker 1: and I appreciate the time. If you don't get that

1595
01:27:42,520 --> 01:27:47,320
Speaker 1: job at Stanford, if Dr Tom Davis doesn't say, Hey,

1596
01:27:47,360 --> 01:27:49,839
Speaker 1: get on this plane with me. We're going to Palo Alto.

1597
01:27:49,920 --> 01:27:52,240
Speaker 1: You mentioned that you might have gone into the service.

1598
01:27:53,160 --> 01:27:55,519
Speaker 1: Do you think you would have found your way still

1599
01:27:55,600 --> 01:27:57,800
Speaker 1: back to coaching or do you think your life would

1600
01:27:57,800 --> 01:28:00,559
Speaker 1: have gone in a completely different direction? And where do

1601
01:28:00,640 --> 01:28:02,720
Speaker 1: you think it might have ended up if coaching was

1602
01:28:02,760 --> 01:28:06,639
Speaker 1: not the answer. Um, I hope I would have gone

1603
01:28:06,640 --> 01:28:11,479
Speaker 1: to the military, and then that may have sent me

1604
01:28:11,520 --> 01:28:16,080
Speaker 1: in a direction. Um, But it didn't happen that way. Again,

1605
01:28:16,200 --> 01:28:21,320
Speaker 1: that wasn't God's plan. UM. I do believe that I

1606
01:28:21,479 --> 01:28:25,120
Speaker 1: was supposed to do what I'm doing. I do, But

1607
01:28:25,200 --> 01:28:27,679
Speaker 1: if I hadn't gotten too coaching right then I don't

1608
01:28:27,680 --> 01:28:30,280
Speaker 1: know that door where or how and when that door

1609
01:28:30,360 --> 01:28:34,599
Speaker 1: would have been opened for me again. And so I

1610
01:28:34,640 --> 01:28:40,200
Speaker 1: would have just taken a um, a job, a regular job. UM.

1611
01:28:40,240 --> 01:28:45,759
Speaker 1: I have no doubt that in that job, I wouldn't

1612
01:28:45,760 --> 01:28:49,400
Speaker 1: have found a way to win. I wouldn't have found

1613
01:28:49,439 --> 01:28:55,200
Speaker 1: a way to be successful. UM. I don't care whether

1614
01:28:55,240 --> 01:29:02,599
Speaker 1: we're playing pick up or whether we're playing hop scotch. Um,

1615
01:29:02,640 --> 01:29:07,599
Speaker 1: I'm gonna try to win and um and uh, the

1616
01:29:07,640 --> 01:29:11,360
Speaker 1: only confidence that I have is that is that I'll

1617
01:29:11,400 --> 01:29:13,479
Speaker 1: work to try to find a way. And by the way,

1618
01:29:13,520 --> 01:29:16,080
Speaker 1: I'm okay with not winning. I'm okay with losing. I

1619
01:29:16,160 --> 01:29:19,840
Speaker 1: get that. Um, I just I just have a lot

1620
01:29:19,880 --> 01:29:25,840
Speaker 1: more fun winning. Everybody everybody knows that feeling. What do

1621
01:29:25,880 --> 01:29:28,439
Speaker 1: you hope when you hang up the whistle, so to speak,

1622
01:29:29,240 --> 01:29:32,600
Speaker 1: and your career is over as a coach? What do

1623
01:29:32,640 --> 01:29:36,920
Speaker 1: you hope people think about Bruce Pearl as a coach?

1624
01:29:36,920 --> 01:29:39,400
Speaker 1: You mentioned I think it's so well said that I

1625
01:29:39,400 --> 01:29:41,599
Speaker 1: remember having this conversation. I'm sure you've met him at

1626
01:29:41,600 --> 01:29:45,000
Speaker 1: some point with Derek Dooley and uh and he said,

1627
01:29:45,720 --> 01:29:47,760
Speaker 1: you know, when I was twenty five years old and

1628
01:29:47,800 --> 01:29:50,519
Speaker 1: I decided to walk out of the law office and

1629
01:29:50,560 --> 01:29:53,560
Speaker 1: go into coaching, getting to be the head coach of

1630
01:29:53,600 --> 01:29:56,759
Speaker 1: the University of Tennessee would have been a really successful tenure.

1631
01:29:57,240 --> 01:29:59,080
Speaker 1: But if people look at it and say, well, I'm

1632
01:29:59,120 --> 01:30:01,120
Speaker 1: only going to think about three years that he was

1633
01:30:01,160 --> 01:30:03,400
Speaker 1: the coach at Tennessee, they don't think about the path

1634
01:30:03,880 --> 01:30:06,400
Speaker 1: that you had to get to to get to that point.

1635
01:30:06,439 --> 01:30:09,120
Speaker 1: And I always think that's instructive for everybody out there listening.

1636
01:30:09,280 --> 01:30:11,479
Speaker 1: People say, you know, hey, when you take over Rush Limbaugh,

1637
01:30:11,880 --> 01:30:14,439
Speaker 1: what if you fail I'm like, well, first of all,

1638
01:30:14,439 --> 01:30:18,040
Speaker 1: you can't fear failure. Uh and and the opportunity was

1639
01:30:18,120 --> 01:30:20,160
Speaker 1: too good to pass up, and the influence was too

1640
01:30:20,160 --> 01:30:23,639
Speaker 1: good to pass up. But if it doesn't work out,

1641
01:30:23,840 --> 01:30:25,640
Speaker 1: it doesn't work out. You know, I had to do

1642
01:30:25,680 --> 01:30:28,000
Speaker 1: a lot of things right to get to that position,

1643
01:30:28,080 --> 01:30:31,920
Speaker 1: to take that job, And I think if you only succeed,

1644
01:30:31,960 --> 01:30:34,719
Speaker 1: it probably means you aren't trying to stretch yourself too far.

1645
01:30:35,680 --> 01:30:38,240
Speaker 1: And I say all of that to ask you the question.

1646
01:30:38,880 --> 01:30:41,360
Speaker 1: You're sixty two. Now you may coach for eight more years,

1647
01:30:41,360 --> 01:30:44,280
Speaker 1: like you said, make it into seventy. What do you

1648
01:30:44,400 --> 01:30:47,679
Speaker 1: hope people take again? To your point, people may only

1649
01:30:47,720 --> 01:30:49,960
Speaker 1: define you if they've only been paying attention to Bruce

1650
01:30:49,960 --> 01:30:51,760
Speaker 1: Pearl at Auburn. They think one thing if they only

1651
01:30:51,840 --> 01:30:54,559
Speaker 1: paid attention to Bruce Pearl at Tennessee. But there's probably

1652
01:30:54,600 --> 01:30:56,880
Speaker 1: some people listening right now who watched your team's play

1653
01:30:56,880 --> 01:30:59,360
Speaker 1: at Southern Indiana and they've known you for most of

1654
01:30:59,400 --> 01:31:02,840
Speaker 1: your profession nor career. What do you hope people take

1655
01:31:03,240 --> 01:31:08,720
Speaker 1: from your coaching career? Well, I would hope play that

1656
01:31:08,800 --> 01:31:13,040
Speaker 1: they would take um the approach that that he was

1657
01:31:13,080 --> 01:31:16,679
Speaker 1: more than just a coach, that he took his job

1658
01:31:16,760 --> 01:31:18,360
Speaker 1: as a coach and a teacher in the game of

1659
01:31:18,400 --> 01:31:21,840
Speaker 1: basketball very seriously, and he was and he was very

1660
01:31:21,880 --> 01:31:26,160
Speaker 1: good at it. His team's won championships. UM. Is there

1661
01:31:26,160 --> 01:31:30,560
Speaker 1: a chance that the runs at Southern Indiana or Wisconsin, Milwaukee,

1662
01:31:31,080 --> 01:31:35,160
Speaker 1: at Tennessee and at Auburn were as good a run

1663
01:31:35,840 --> 01:31:39,840
Speaker 1: as they had had in their history? Is that possible? Uh?

1664
01:31:39,880 --> 01:31:42,520
Speaker 1: Coach Barnes right now has a has a real opportunity

1665
01:31:42,840 --> 01:31:47,040
Speaker 1: to to get there. With coach Meyers, I didn't. I

1666
01:31:47,080 --> 01:31:49,599
Speaker 1: wasn't there as long UM we had a good run

1667
01:31:49,600 --> 01:31:53,840
Speaker 1: that we were where we were there though, there's no question, UM.

1668
01:31:53,880 --> 01:31:57,960
Speaker 1: And so that's important, but probably more important than the

1669
01:31:58,000 --> 01:32:01,559
Speaker 1: success on the basketball court is that he cared about

1670
01:32:01,600 --> 01:32:05,200
Speaker 1: things UM that had nothing to do with basketball. He

1671
01:32:05,200 --> 01:32:08,639
Speaker 1: carried about his players, He cared about his staff, compared

1672
01:32:08,640 --> 01:32:13,439
Speaker 1: about their successes, UM, their preparation for whatever else was like,

1673
01:32:14,120 --> 01:32:16,479
Speaker 1: cared about the community and worked really hard in the

1674
01:32:16,479 --> 01:32:19,960
Speaker 1: community to make it better. UM. And and and loved

1675
01:32:19,960 --> 01:32:24,439
Speaker 1: our country and and and you know, like I said,

1676
01:32:24,720 --> 01:32:28,000
Speaker 1: would have would would do the things that a citizen

1677
01:32:28,560 --> 01:32:33,639
Speaker 1: UM would do, UM to help make our communities and

1678
01:32:33,720 --> 01:32:37,040
Speaker 1: make our country UM. And the best we possibly can

1679
01:32:37,640 --> 01:32:41,000
Speaker 1: and so UM, things like being a good like you.

1680
01:32:41,000 --> 01:32:43,160
Speaker 1: You had said to me, you said you were aware

1681
01:32:43,240 --> 01:32:46,400
Speaker 1: that my family is close, and you judge me based

1682
01:32:46,400 --> 01:32:48,040
Speaker 1: on You've got great kids and you know you could

1683
01:32:48,080 --> 01:32:51,400
Speaker 1: see their relationship. That's that's important to me. You know

1684
01:32:51,439 --> 01:32:53,800
Speaker 1: that people would would would respect me as a as

1685
01:32:53,800 --> 01:32:58,799
Speaker 1: a man, UH, as as a father, UM as a husband. UM.

1686
01:32:58,920 --> 01:33:02,040
Speaker 1: And you know I want the whole thing you know

1687
01:33:02,479 --> 01:33:05,519
Speaker 1: I want. I want, I want, you know I want

1688
01:33:05,520 --> 01:33:08,639
Speaker 1: that I can't. I don't worry about what I can't

1689
01:33:08,640 --> 01:33:12,840
Speaker 1: control and um, and I don't worry about what people

1690
01:33:12,880 --> 01:33:15,840
Speaker 1: think because people are going to think what they think. UM.

1691
01:33:16,000 --> 01:33:20,920
Speaker 1: I I probably care more about the people that I

1692
01:33:20,960 --> 01:33:24,120
Speaker 1: either respect and admire. I probably care what they think

1693
01:33:24,479 --> 01:33:26,400
Speaker 1: more than I do, more than I really do what

1694
01:33:26,439 --> 01:33:30,360
Speaker 1: everybody else thinks. I wrote down May of three, I

1695
01:33:30,400 --> 01:33:32,599
Speaker 1: hope that we can make that trip. I really would

1696
01:33:32,600 --> 01:33:35,479
Speaker 1: genuinely love to go to Israel, spend that time over there,

1697
01:33:35,560 --> 01:33:38,840
Speaker 1: bringing my family, have that experience. Uh. Bruce Pearl, you

1698
01:33:38,880 --> 01:33:41,400
Speaker 1: guys can tell I'm a fan. Does fantastic work in

1699
01:33:41,439 --> 01:33:45,320
Speaker 1: many different facets. Uh. Both that all the places he's coached,

1700
01:33:45,320 --> 01:33:47,880
Speaker 1: but all the lives that he is influenced and also

1701
01:33:48,160 --> 01:33:52,200
Speaker 1: pretty fun guy. Appreciate you, guys. This has been wins

1702
01:33:52,240 --> 01:33:55,000
Speaker 1: and losses. I am Clay Travisy is Auburn men's basketball

1703
01:33:55,040 --> 01:33:57,439
Speaker 1: coach Bruce Pearl. If you enjoyed this one, check out

1704
01:33:57,439 --> 01:34:00,360
Speaker 1: some of the forty plus other conversations, and thank you

1705
01:34:00,400 --> 01:34:01,320
Speaker 1: for spending time with us.