1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:03,040 Speaker 1: Hi, folks. I'm popping up with a wee warning before 2 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:06,360 Speaker 1: we get into the podcast. This episode of the Missing 3 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:10,960 Speaker 1: Sister contains references to domestic violence and derogatory language used 4 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 1: to describe women. Please listen with care for the victims 5 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 1: and for yourself. I'm walking away from the train platform 6 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 1: when I spot him just ahead of me, and my 7 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:37,239 Speaker 1: heart starts to race. We're in Hackney, East London, Dolstan 8 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 1: to be specific, which is where I was born, an 9 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:45,000 Speaker 1: area where almost fifty percent of the community is black. 10 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: This man, short, clear skinned, with a black dew wragon 11 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 1: and a bright green sweatshirt, blends in almost perfectly. But 12 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 1: there's something about him which is different, which makes me 13 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 1: stop for a moment and stare fringes poking out of 14 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:16,399 Speaker 1: the bottom of his sweatshirt unmistakable. The Bada Meinhoft phenomenon, 15 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 1: also known as the frequency illusion, is when you start 16 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 1: noticing something everywhere, all at once. It's a symptom of 17 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 1: cognitive bias, and since I've been recording this podcast, it 18 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 1: does feel as though I'm seeing more of the Hebrew Israelites, 19 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:41,119 Speaker 1: noticing more people who believe in their scripture. A few 20 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:44,400 Speaker 1: months back, I even saw an Israelite church preaching in 21 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 1: central London. As I walked on by with my partner. 22 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 1: We stopped and had an awkward conversation with them. They 23 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 1: were utterly uninterested in speaking with me, actively rude. But 24 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 1: this is different. At the station in Hackney, I decide 25 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 1: to approach the man one on one. He looks furious 26 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 1: serious as I wave at him. He's got headphones in 27 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:16,639 Speaker 1: and then he takes them out and I ask if 28 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:21,799 Speaker 1: he's an Israelite. His face cracks into a wide grin. 29 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 1: Immediately I realize that on the surface, at least, this 30 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 1: is a kind person. He says, yes, I am an Israelite. 31 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:37,520 Speaker 1: He asks if I'm one too. I gesture at my 32 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 1: uncovered head and I tell him no, I'm not. Sis 33 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 1: Is in the congregation always wear headscarves. 34 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:49,959 Speaker 2: But you are, though, he says, which makes sense because 35 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 2: he doesn't know that my father is white and this ideology, 36 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 2: it's built on the fallacy of race. 37 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 1: But here's the part that really matters. Not only is 38 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 1: he an Israelite, he tells me that he congregates with 39 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 1: the organization I've been investigating, Israel United in Christ. There 40 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 1: are many different Hebrew Israelite groups, but it's the first 41 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 1: time I've met an IUIC member in real life. He 42 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: tells me that he's been with IUIC since he was 43 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: a teenager, and because of that, there are a lot 44 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 1: of things in life he hasn't experienced, like never smoking weed. 45 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 1: He still looks young, early twenties at most, bright eyed, 46 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 1: and within minutes he's trying to convert me. Tells me 47 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 1: to contact his captain here in the UK, offers to 48 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 1: pass on the number. The Bada Meinhoff phenomenon happens when 49 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 1: your brain decides something is important and right now for me, 50 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 1: feels more important than this story learning about IUIC, understanding 51 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 1: how they operate, and uncovering who they are. And now 52 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: someone from IUIC kindly, unknowingly has just pointed me directly 53 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:24,840 Speaker 1: toward them. From Free Turn, I'm Charlie Brinkhurst Cuff and 54 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:33,280 Speaker 1: this is the Missing Sister, Episode five, The City of Hope. 55 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 1: So we've been recording this now for six months. It's 56 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:41,720 Speaker 1: been six months thereabouts, and we're now getting to the 57 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:46,360 Speaker 1: stage where we've gathered quite a lot of information about AUIC. 58 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 1: It's now July. Me and my producer Sarah Jones are 59 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 1: taking a minute to reflect on where we're at. There 60 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 1: are quite a lot of allegations that we have against them, 61 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:01,560 Speaker 1: and one of the things that we know that the 62 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 1: family wants, that we know that Agnes Joy's best friend wants, 63 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 1: is accountability from the church. And I feel I'm at 64 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:13,280 Speaker 1: the stage where I'm ready to have that conversation with them. 65 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 1: You are probably wondering if or even when this moment 66 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: would happen, whether we would discuss approaching Iuice for an interview. 67 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 1: There are some challenging questions that we need to ask 68 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:32,279 Speaker 1: them about whether or not I U see is a 69 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 1: high control environment, about the alleged culture of public humiliation, 70 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:43,599 Speaker 1: about their treatment of women, about the physical abuse that 71 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 1: Naomi endured, and of course about Joy. Ultimately, there are 72 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 1: two things we feel like we have established about the 73 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 1: teachings and beliefs of the church. Firstly, that they may 74 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 1: have directly influenced Joy's isolation from her friends and loved 75 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:06,360 Speaker 1: ones at the time she was murdered. And secondly, they 76 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:10,039 Speaker 1: may have influenced the attitudes her fellow congregants had toward 77 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:13,280 Speaker 1: her when she went missing. You know, like as genuinely 78 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 1: like I feel like I've learned a huge amount about them. 79 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:18,719 Speaker 1: I feel like there are things about them that I 80 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: still don't understand and that I can't understand until I 81 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:26,599 Speaker 1: sit down with an active member. And so yeah, I 82 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 1: think it's time now. We know that OUIC is growing, 83 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:34,839 Speaker 1: that they're becoming more powerful, and we know that after 84 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:38,600 Speaker 1: six years, it's very easy for someone like Joy to 85 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 1: be forgotten about, to remain missing in the eyes of 86 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:49,159 Speaker 1: the public. This makes our mission feel urgent, emotional, not 87 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 1: something that we are holding lightly. We've gone to quite 88 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: some lengths to try and secure an interview. We've emailed, called, 89 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 1: even been to the church in the UK on a Saturday, 90 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:06,920 Speaker 1: the day they congregate, and banged on the heavy black doors. 91 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 1: No one answered, even though high above us through open 92 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 1: windows we could hear voices see a sliver of purple 93 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 1: behind black curtains. So something new is on the agenda, 94 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: something I've been thinking about all along, going to America, 95 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 1: going to iuic's headquarters and trying to secure an interview 96 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 1: with Bishop Nathaniel, the founder of AUIC, in person on 97 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 1: their turf. We believe that he is at the helm 98 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 1: of a militant and hierarchical institution. We've heard that what 99 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 1: he says goes. We've been told that he has eyes 100 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 1: on everything, including what happens in London. It might be 101 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:57,239 Speaker 1: a risk, but it's one that I'm willing to take. 102 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 1: This Chatting to Sarah, and again, I think I'm also 103 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 1: somewhat counting on their arrogance, if that makes sense. So 104 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 1: I'm counting on the fact that they will be arrogant 105 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 1: enough to believe that some little girl journalist from London 106 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 1: is not gonna pin them down in a way that's 107 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: going to feel significant journalistically. We agree that this has 108 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 1: to be done. We need to go to the top 109 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 1: of the organization, to Bishop Nathaniel, to America before we 110 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 1: go any further. Here's what we've pieced together about Bishop 111 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 1: Nathaniel so far. Most of this comes from online sources, 112 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 1: his own interviews, and from people we've spoken to who 113 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 1: have met or interviewed him directly. Bishop Nathaniel is a 114 00:08:56,160 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 1: tall black man about six foot two, with glasses and 115 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 1: quite a long gray beard, which he often strokes when 116 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 1: he speaks. He was born in nineteen sixty four or 117 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 1: sixty five, but his exact birthdate is unknown. He grew 118 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 1: up attending the Christian Church but in the nineteen nineties 119 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: he moved through several Hebrew Israelite camps. Then in two 120 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 1: thousand and three he founded Israel United in Christ, initially 121 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 1: by holding Bible study sessions and debates around a table 122 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 1: in his apartment and then taking to the streets to preach. 123 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 1: He's articulate, some would say charismatic. He's the kind of 124 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 1: man who, if you blink for just a second, you 125 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:45,559 Speaker 1: might think is entirely reasonable. And then he'll say something like. 126 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:47,679 Speaker 3: This, Oh, I got to buy a young girl as 127 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 3: a big mac in a happy meal. 128 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:51,199 Speaker 2: Should give it up to you A lot of them? 129 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:51,839 Speaker 2: Or this. 130 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:56,720 Speaker 3: To become emotionally stable, Number one, the women must have 131 00:09:56,920 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 3: there must be a man in the house. 132 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: Both quotes come from a twenty twenty four interview. He 133 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 1: sees women and girls as unstable, perhaps even as whores, 134 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 1: as lesser. He believes men should be in control, that 135 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:18,560 Speaker 1: he deserves power simply due to his gender. Scratch the surface, 136 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 1: and the worldview beneath is deeply misogynistic and authoritarian, and 137 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 1: that's just the start. All of this is important because 138 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 1: of how hierarchical IUI see is. From what former members 139 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:37,200 Speaker 1: have told us, no major decisions in the organization would 140 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 1: be made without Nathaniel's input. So part of understanding what 141 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 1: happened to Joy is understanding who Nathaniel really is. Where 142 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 1: are we going to meet our security guards. We're currently 143 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 1: in the stairway of the building, which is why it's 144 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 1: a bit echoy and yeah, we're just going to go 145 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 1: meet security guards and see what they think our strategy 146 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 1: should be for today, and then drive over to IOIC 147 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 1: headquarters and knock on their door. It's Friday, the fourth 148 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 1: of July, the US national holiday, and today's the big day. 149 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 1: We know that IUIC doesn't adhere to conventional American holidays, 150 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 1: that they won't be celebrating American Independence, just as they 151 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 1: don't celebrate Christmas. So there's a high likelihood that even 152 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 1: though the rest of the city feels sleepy, they will 153 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:37,599 Speaker 1: be busy on Fridays. IUIC tends to record a podcast 154 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:42,199 Speaker 1: called Friday Night Raw. This is a recent pleasant example 155 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 1: of what they chat about. 156 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 4: Why there's so much domestic violence, Okay, because our women 157 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 4: at irrational and the men don't know how to deal 158 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 4: with women that are ungly. The program is to promote 159 00:11:55,559 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 4: and bring forth women of a godly nature and stole 160 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 4: morals and principles and values according to God. Okay, so 161 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:09,200 Speaker 4: we don't have to deal with that wores. 162 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 1: I have to be honest, it wasn't easy getting sign 163 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 1: off from the execs to do this. We've had to 164 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 1: jump through a lot of hoops to get here, risk assessments, 165 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 1: calls with insurance, flights, accommodation visas. We've been instructed not 166 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:29,439 Speaker 1: to attend the HQ on a Saturday, the day they congregate, 167 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 1: because we could be outnumbered. So we've come on a 168 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:36,319 Speaker 1: Friday and written a letter to be dropped off at 169 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: HQ in case no one is there to answer the door. 170 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:43,320 Speaker 1: And there was one final non negotiable that we had 171 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 1: to confirm to get the go ahead. 172 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 2: Security, all right, this is probably then, Yeah, okay, it's 173 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:51,079 Speaker 2: a big black car. 174 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 1: We blat out windows. It's eleven AM and it's hot 175 00:12:56,559 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 1: and humid outside. We've been told to meet secure outside 176 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: of our building, where they'll pick us up and take 177 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 1: us to the IUIC headquarters. This is not something I'm 178 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 1: used to at all. In all my years as a journalist, 179 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 1: I've never needed security for any story I've covered. I 180 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 1: don't really know what to expect. 181 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:19,199 Speaker 5: Hey you guys, how are you doing? 182 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 2: Are you doing? I'm saring. Thank you guys so much 183 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 2: for coming, no problem. 184 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 3: Of course. 185 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 1: We're accompanied by two security guards, Steve and Derek. Not 186 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 1: only are they local guys, born and bred in New York, 187 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 1: they're super easy to talk to. This isn't their usual 188 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 1: style of security job. They work for celebrities and they 189 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:45,440 Speaker 1: have all sorts of stories. They tell us they've even 190 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:49,320 Speaker 1: worked in brothels. But they know what they're doing and 191 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 1: they're invested. 192 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 3: I'm going to be with you guys at autops, so 193 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 3: whenever you guys get a decide to get out of 194 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:58,679 Speaker 3: the vehicle, I'm gonna be with the vehicle. Automs also 195 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:00,960 Speaker 3: have the drivers, like security is going to be with 196 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 3: the vehicle old times. In the event that we need 197 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:06,079 Speaker 3: to evacuate or eback, as we say in in security terms, 198 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 3: then he will be readily available to a good away 199 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 3: from the situation. 200 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:14,440 Speaker 1: This may feel a little extra, but the truth is 201 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 1: approaching our UIC turning up their HQ unannounced and uninvited 202 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: is a high risk task. We don't know who's going 203 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 1: to be there or how they're going to react. What 204 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 1: we do know is that IUIC seems to attract the 205 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 1: type of people who might be suspicious of strangers and 206 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 1: potentially hostile. When I last went to scope out the 207 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 1: front of AUIC London in episode one, the men outside 208 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 1: seemed unfriendly. Plus, this is America. One of the things 209 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 1: our production team is worried about is whether or not 210 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 1: people in the building might be carrying guns. The security 211 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 1: guys are ready. They've come across the Israelites before. 212 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 3: Great, that's what we know them for, for yelling and 213 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 3: making arkat yelling and try to recouping all the time. 214 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 1: We're on our way to a city around a thirty 215 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 1: minute drive outside of Manhattan called Mount Vernon. It has 216 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 1: a population of around seventy two thousand people and sixty 217 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: percent of them are black, making it the largest African 218 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 1: American majority city in the state. As we arrive, we 219 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: see a sign which titles it evocatively as the City 220 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 1: of Hope. Perhaps to newcomers, it feels like a place 221 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 1: of possibility, a little rough around the edges, working class 222 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 1: or blue collar as they say in the US, but 223 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 1: a place of promise. We're crossing our fingers it will 224 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: offer us something to I am just so fascinated to 225 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 1: see what the headquarters are going to look like and 226 00:15:57,280 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 1: see if we can just get even more, just a 227 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 1: little more of a glimpse into who these people are 228 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 1: and how they move through this world. We're getting closer now, 229 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 1: and the nervousness is growing. So we're just passing under 230 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 1: a bridge and we're about one minute away from IOIC Headquarters. 231 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 1: And just as how I felt when I was in 232 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 1: the car in London on the way to IOC, then 233 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 1: it's funny the anticipation that suddenly grows, because it's like, goodness, 234 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 1: we've been working toward this. Then suddenly we can see it, 235 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 1: both smaller and bigger than I imagined, tucked behind the 236 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 1: back of what looks like a big warehouse on the 237 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 1: corner of a quiet street, opposite a car dealership, a 238 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 1: two story, quite small square building with big windows decked 239 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 1: out with security cameras. It doesn't look like a HQ. 240 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:06,680 Speaker 1: There's no signifier that the building belongs to iu S 241 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:11,879 Speaker 1: other than purple paper lining some of the windows. The 242 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:15,680 Speaker 1: other windows are blacked out. We can't see in at all. 243 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 2: So security of just parking up and we've got a 244 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 2: queer view of the building and there's no one outside. 245 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 2: There's no sign of anyone being around at all, no 246 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:31,919 Speaker 2: one exiting or entering. Looks way too small for the 247 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:35,920 Speaker 2: headquarters for quite a large organization. But yeah, I guess 248 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 2: we should go and get out and see if anyone's in. 249 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 2: Got the letter? Yeah, see you, let's do it. 250 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 1: Steve and I get out of the car and head 251 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:54,159 Speaker 1: toward the building. I feel excited and scared. Sarahen and 252 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:58,360 Speaker 1: our other security guard, Derek, wait in the car watching. 253 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:01,719 Speaker 1: I can't bring a big mic out with me in 254 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 1: case it antagonizes them, so they're recording. 255 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:06,399 Speaker 6: All right, she's buzzing. 256 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:10,120 Speaker 2: No answer. 257 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 1: Steve and I look around carefully, him leading the way. 258 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:20,359 Speaker 1: There are lots of security cameras, just like there was 259 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 1: in London, so we know they'll see us even if 260 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 1: we can't see them. But there really doesn't appear to 261 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:30,680 Speaker 1: be anyone in. So we post our interview requests through 262 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 1: their mailbox and head back to the car. What an 263 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 1: anti climax. At the time, I'm gutted. I'm upset that 264 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,920 Speaker 1: we won't get to put our questions to them in person. 265 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 1: We buzzed on the door twice and there was no answer. 266 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 1: It looks completely done in there. I was able to 267 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:52,080 Speaker 1: peek inside a little bit and it just was essentially 268 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:54,399 Speaker 1: like a blank wall, and there was no one I 269 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 1: could see inside, no signs of life. We decide that 270 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:00,639 Speaker 1: we'll spend the rest of our time in Mount Vernon 271 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 1: learning about a US from the outside from the local community. 272 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:09,400 Speaker 1: Everyone we meet is willing to talk to us. First, 273 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 1: we go to the local bar, and coincidentally we meet 274 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 1: a neighbor. 275 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 6: I live in the building right there, the big building, 276 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:18,119 Speaker 6: and that. 277 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 7: He was righted up was on the corner. 278 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:21,359 Speaker 6: There's a lot of them in there. 279 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 1: He tells us that he's Muslim and that they've tried 280 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:26,920 Speaker 1: to convert him but it would never work. 281 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 7: They don't like talking to me, really, you know, I 282 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:33,400 Speaker 7: don't like talking to me, because. 283 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 5: First of all, I asked some howdy Hebrew. 284 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 1: Right His comments were fragmented but revealing of a wider mistrust. 285 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:45,479 Speaker 1: But the other people we spoke to they only had 286 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:50,399 Speaker 1: positive things to say about our u C. Presumably because 287 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 1: it's fourth of July, almost the weekend, A firefighter and 288 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:57,200 Speaker 1: his colleagues are all hanging out at the station, which 289 00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 1: is on the same road as Iuic's building. They're chatting 290 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:05,119 Speaker 1: grilling meat. The firefighter doesn't want to be on the record, 291 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 1: but he does say that all of his interactions with 292 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 1: a u C have been pleasant, that they're good people, kind, 293 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 1: that as a black man, he thinks that some of 294 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:19,719 Speaker 1: the things they believe in have merit. We hit up 295 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:22,639 Speaker 1: the local barbers and the seven eleven, the corner shop. 296 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:26,640 Speaker 1: The workers don't have much to divulge. They also find 297 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:30,200 Speaker 1: them to be pleasant enough friendly. They're not loud or 298 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 1: obnoxious or in your face. They keep to themselves. Finally, 299 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 1: we go to a local salon, say. 300 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,879 Speaker 2: Top my tray room. Okay, interesting, look them up a 301 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 2: couple of times, but I just never really right into 302 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 2: it too much. 303 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 1: It's telling that even in the place where they are 304 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 1: most visible, our u C is considered to be secretive. 305 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 1: We exit the salon and we're about to head off 306 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 1: to leave the city of Hope and are asked opirations 307 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 1: of coming face to face with our u C behind. 308 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 1: But then outside the church, something finally happens. 309 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,919 Speaker 2: Oh, there are people down there now, Steve, what do 310 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:15,200 Speaker 2: you think if you if we wanted to go down 311 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 2: is there a is the first time we've seen. 312 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:18,160 Speaker 7: When you were a walk. 313 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, I just saw on the drive I saw on 314 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 3: the drive down. 315 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:26,400 Speaker 1: Okay, Sarah hops in the car with Derek, who screeches 316 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 1: down the road to be our back up, our way out. 317 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:32,680 Speaker 1: It feels a little extra, but I also love it. 318 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:36,719 Speaker 1: And then Steve and I approach our u C for 319 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:41,359 Speaker 1: the first time to request the interview with Bishop Nathaniel 320 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 1: that we've been asking for in person, to meet them, 321 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:54,680 Speaker 1: and suddenly I'm not scared anymore. I feel ready. From 322 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:58,199 Speaker 1: a distance, just down the road from the headquarters, we 323 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:01,119 Speaker 1: can see that there are two men outside, a woman, 324 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 1: and a huddle of children. The children are cute, the 325 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:09,760 Speaker 1: woman is pretty, and they're all wearing fringes on their clothing. 326 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 1: The woman is wearing a long leopard print skirt. As 327 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 1: I get closer, she says Shalam's sister and smiles at 328 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:23,200 Speaker 1: me brightly. I wonder if they think that Steve and I, 329 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:27,880 Speaker 1: in that moment, in between our Israelites, ourselves, I don't 330 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 1: feel intimidated at all. In fact, I feel brave and 331 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:35,160 Speaker 1: strong as I approach the men. One of them has locks, 332 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 1: the other has a neat salt and pepper beard went 333 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 1: upside my helloes and Majannas from London who's interview you, 334 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:48,119 Speaker 1: and that they basically immediately were like not aggressive at all, 335 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 1: that actually very friendly like and very gentle in their demeanor. 336 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 2: The whole energy was quite to me. It was quite 337 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:57,200 Speaker 2: light actually, and we're outside their home, their second home, 338 00:22:57,520 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 2: and he was like, I don't think we can speak, 339 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:01,720 Speaker 2: but the officer there, he'll be in touch and he 340 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:04,439 Speaker 2: can potentially talk to you. Officer came over. I shook 341 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,639 Speaker 2: his hand and introduced myself and then he was like, 342 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:09,440 Speaker 2: just wait a moment, and they all went inside, and 343 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 2: I was like, maybe they're not going to come back up. 344 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:12,679 Speaker 2: I was like, oh, maybe this is it. They're just 345 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:14,200 Speaker 2: going to go inside and then we're going to be 346 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:14,880 Speaker 2: left out here. 347 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:18,640 Speaker 1: The officer is a bit more wary. He's dressed casually 348 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 1: in blue and tells me his name is Enoch. He 349 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 1: looks at me quizzically and he says that he recognizes me. 350 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 1: I don't know why, but I have a theory since 351 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:35,400 Speaker 1: I put in the interview request over email, it's possible 352 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:37,159 Speaker 1: that they've been keeping tabs on me. 353 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 2: He does come out and he has this piece of paper. 354 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 2: On the piece of paper, it says the truth about slavery. 355 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 2: The so called blacks and Hispanics are the twelve tribes 356 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,680 Speaker 2: of Israel. You are the children of the slave trade. 357 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 2: This is a reminder. This is the way they get 358 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 2: people in one of their tools of recruitment. They like 359 00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 2: to remind people of how much they have suffered, of 360 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,119 Speaker 2: why they need to stand alone as Israelites, as black people, 361 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 2: in the face of great acts of evil. But there's 362 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,200 Speaker 2: one detail that stands out on this piece of paper. 363 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:15,639 Speaker 2: He pointed on this piece of paper to a phone number, 364 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 2: and he said that I should call this phone number, 365 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:22,240 Speaker 2: and this is how I might be able to interview someone. 366 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 2: So this is our last attempt. Really, we've phoned this 367 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,360 Speaker 2: number and we see what happens. 368 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 1: Later when we get home, we call the number. 369 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:34,320 Speaker 2: It's going to be a generic number, isn't it. 370 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 1: This is our last chapter. 371 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 2: Chum, Thank you for calling Israel United in Christ. This 372 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 2: is Bishop Nathaniel, and if you know your intention, please. 373 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,480 Speaker 7: Dial it or stay on the line and be. 374 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 1: Prompted for a moment. We think we're going to get through. 375 00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 5: Thank you for calling. 376 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 7: Please leave a message and your call will be returned. 377 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 1: Impossible, but no one picks up. I leave a message. 378 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 2: Hi there. 379 00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:10,200 Speaker 1: My name is Charlie brinkherst Cuff. I'm a journalist who 380 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 1: is currently here in New York from London. I've sent 381 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,960 Speaker 1: a number of emails to IOC over the last month 382 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:18,919 Speaker 1: as I am trying to arrange an interview with a 383 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 1: member of your leadership team. We never hear back. Clearly, 384 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:28,160 Speaker 1: we're being intentionally stonewalled. Maybe they're even mounting a defense, 385 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,919 Speaker 1: getting their ducks in a row, assembling a legal team. 386 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 1: Our security reached out with a kind offer. 387 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 3: I'm going to record it in simita on when I 388 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 3: see them, the day I see them. 389 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:45,200 Speaker 1: So where have we landed with this? We didn't get 390 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:49,679 Speaker 1: the interview. It's a blow. I do wonder whether I 391 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 1: could have been more pushy, stood outside the church until someone, 392 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:58,400 Speaker 1: anyone agreed to speak with me, tried to persuade Enoch. 393 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 1: Even his voice might be valuable, but that probably would 394 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:05,880 Speaker 1: have been considered escalatory. They could have called the police 395 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:10,199 Speaker 1: on us. They could have done anything, really, and our 396 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,920 Speaker 1: production team wouldn't have been happy about us putting ourselves 397 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 1: in danger. On the other hand, this is part of 398 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:23,119 Speaker 1: journalism on the ground, actively reported journalism. You win some 399 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:28,240 Speaker 1: and on other occasions your stonewalled. The more important revelation here, 400 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:30,640 Speaker 1: the one that when I think back on it makes 401 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:35,160 Speaker 1: my blood boil, is that Bishop Nathaniel is ultimately trying 402 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 1: to evade accountability, even though the allegations we have against 403 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 1: his institution are serious, even though we traveled all this 404 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 1: way to track him down, explained ourselves honestly, openly, clearly, 405 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:54,920 Speaker 1: written to him multiple times, posted a letter, and given 406 00:26:55,000 --> 00:27:01,960 Speaker 1: him no excuses to avoid an interaction. It feels indicative 407 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,480 Speaker 1: of the type of organization that he runs that he 408 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:08,679 Speaker 1: would hide from us, evade us, put up walls and 409 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:14,520 Speaker 1: close doors. IUIC is willing to publish hours and hours 410 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:20,320 Speaker 1: of weekly videos of their interviews preaching ideologies, but they 411 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 1: won't sit down for a conversation with us. They never 412 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 1: mentioned Joy Morgan publicly, apart from seemingly to save face, 413 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:32,399 Speaker 1: apart from to blame people criticizing AUIC for what happened 414 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 1: to Joy. 415 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 5: First, let me start off by saying, there's a lot 416 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:42,680 Speaker 5: of lies and misinformation being put out and you people 417 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:47,960 Speaker 5: are destroying any hope of us finding her and bringing 418 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:48,440 Speaker 5: her home. 419 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,680 Speaker 1: I want to keep my personal promise to Carol Morgan 420 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,120 Speaker 1: and the rest of Joy's family to try and hold 421 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 1: up a mirror to Auic, to show them what might 422 00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 1: have been lost along the way. So I'm not giving up. 423 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,360 Speaker 1: If anything, these setbacks have made me want to understand 424 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:13,600 Speaker 1: this man even more. I'm speaking to sources who have 425 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 1: sat down with him. I'm researching, I'm still looking for 426 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 1: ways in, and as it turns out, as we head 427 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 1: back from the City of Hope and into Manhattan, there 428 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,920 Speaker 1: is hope to be found. There's a lead who's about 429 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,879 Speaker 1: to give us an important piece of information about Bishop Nathaniel. 430 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 7: My name is Michael Lumer. I'm a civil rights attorney, 431 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,600 Speaker 7: born and raised in New York and lived in New Jersey. 432 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:49,880 Speaker 1: We're interviewing Michael in Manhattan because, just as I suspected, 433 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 1: even though we haven't managed to get the interview with Iuic, 434 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 1: there's a story we've uncovered about Bishop Nathaniel that casts 435 00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 1: a whole new light on the organization, on the elusive 436 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 1: man at the center of it. Michael Lumer is one 437 00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,800 Speaker 1: of the only people we've met who spent any significant 438 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:12,040 Speaker 1: amount of time with Bishop Nathaniel who knows something crucial 439 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 1: about his past that most people don't. 440 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:17,720 Speaker 7: I met him through a case that came to me 441 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 7: I'm going to say around two thy eleven, twenty twelve, 442 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,240 Speaker 7: where two men came to me after they had finally 443 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:30,120 Speaker 7: had their criminal charges dropped, and they came because they 444 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 7: wanted to sue the City of New York for their 445 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 7: arrest and prosecution, and Nathaniel was the detective who had 446 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 7: arrested them and driven their prosecution forward. 447 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 1: There's a few details to iron out here. Firstly, Bishop 448 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:48,080 Speaker 1: Nathaniel was a police officer, and not only that, he 449 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 1: was a detective with the New York Police Department. I've 450 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 1: heard Nathaniel talk about his time in the police force, 451 00:29:55,600 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 1: but it's never been confirmed by an outside source. When 452 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,400 Speaker 1: I contacted the NYPD press office, they ignored me for 453 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,680 Speaker 1: weeks until sending a one word answer to my multiple 454 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 1: requests confirming the year that Nathaniel left the force. According 455 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:16,160 Speaker 1: to them, he left in twenty sixteen. This was thirteen 456 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 1: years after he started a USC, so he was operating 457 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 1: as the head of a religious movement for over a 458 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 1: decade while also serving as a police officer. Here's Nathaniel 459 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:29,480 Speaker 1: being interviewed about that time period. 460 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:32,520 Speaker 7: The question I have is when and why did you 461 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 7: join the NYPD, Well, a job number one job, my 462 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:39,360 Speaker 7: son was born. 463 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:41,440 Speaker 3: There's a lot of other history in there, but it's 464 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 3: long winded, but you know, I need a paycheck, and 465 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 3: I went into that. 466 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 1: Michael met Nathaniel when he was still a serving police 467 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 1: officer in twenty thirteen, a detective working in the robbery 468 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 1: squad in Brooklyn. Michael's clients were called Malik Sanders and 469 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:01,960 Speaker 1: Cory Phillips, and they'd been arrested by Nathaniel on the 470 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 1: basis that they'd been involved in a series of different 471 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,440 Speaker 1: robberies known as pattern robberies. 472 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,880 Speaker 7: How they came to be arrested is complicated, but I'll 473 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,320 Speaker 7: give you the simple version. There was a robbery of 474 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 7: a gas station convenience store. It was on video. The 475 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 7: men who robbed the planes got away and were seen 476 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 7: getting into a car. Malik was seen in a similar 477 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 7: car a few days later and was arrested for being 478 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:31,880 Speaker 7: in that car, which happened to be owned by Corey. 479 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,720 Speaker 1: He remembers how they came across at that time, two 480 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,080 Speaker 1: young black men under scrutiny. 481 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:44,560 Speaker 7: They were sincerely wounded by their arrest and their prosecution, 482 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,400 Speaker 7: and I think that's the thing that stuck with me. 483 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:50,720 Speaker 7: In this case. It was easy because there's video of 484 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:54,560 Speaker 7: the robbery, and it's obvious from the video that it's 485 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:57,480 Speaker 7: not them, certainly obvious that it's not Malik, because Malik 486 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:01,720 Speaker 7: is a legitimate six foot six and the video shows 487 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 7: that everybody in the video was somewhere between five nine 488 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,240 Speaker 7: and six feet tall. If you look at Malik and 489 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,640 Speaker 7: you stand them next to Cory, there's no way these 490 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 7: are the two guys from the video. 491 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:17,800 Speaker 1: But despite this, Nathaniel arrested them and they were charged 492 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,840 Speaker 1: with not just this, but a whole series of robberies. 493 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,800 Speaker 1: The bail for Cory and Malik was set at seventy 494 00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 1: five thousand dollars. Neither they nor their families could afford it, 495 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:35,320 Speaker 1: and so each man spent eleven months on Riker's Island, 496 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 1: a notoriously awful jail in New York City which bears 497 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:44,000 Speaker 1: the name of a nineteenth century judge who sent free 498 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:50,080 Speaker 1: African Americans back into enslavement. It specifically holds pre trial 499 00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 1: defendants or those unable to make bail, and is known 500 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:58,720 Speaker 1: for cruel and violent treatment of its inmates. Black men 501 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 1: in particular, are overrepresented at the jail. According to some 502 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:08,200 Speaker 1: estimates they make up fifty six percent of Riker's inmates. 503 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,640 Speaker 7: It is not a good place to be, that's the 504 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,960 Speaker 7: easiest way to describe it. It there's a lot of violence. 505 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:19,280 Speaker 7: It's not well supervised, it's not well maintained. You don't 506 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:21,440 Speaker 7: get good medical care, if you get any medical care, 507 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:23,640 Speaker 7: you don't get good food, you don't always have access 508 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:27,160 Speaker 7: to phones. It's a dangerous, unpleasant place to be. I 509 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,440 Speaker 7: could describe it more, but I wouldn't do it justice. 510 00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 7: It's a dangerous, unpleasant place to be. 511 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,760 Speaker 1: In short, the men were traumatized, and it could be 512 00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:42,200 Speaker 1: argued that it's essentially Nathaniel's vault that they were jailed 513 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 1: for so long. 514 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 7: He made the decision to make the arrest. He was 515 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,720 Speaker 7: the point officer, communicating with the prosecutors to drive the 516 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:55,680 Speaker 7: case forward, so it was always his case. This was 517 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,240 Speaker 7: a case with two people who plainly didn't commit the crime, 518 00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:06,520 Speaker 7: So to not speak up because it was convenient to 519 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:08,759 Speaker 7: not speak up, or because it was easier to not 520 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:12,359 Speaker 7: speak up, you know, it was basically cowardly. I wasn't 521 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,319 Speaker 7: surprised at that. I was surprised that it came from 522 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:20,560 Speaker 7: somebody who was taking such a self righteous position when 523 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:21,560 Speaker 7: he wasn't on the job. 524 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,799 Speaker 1: What Michael is too polite to say is that Nathaniel's 525 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:31,319 Speaker 1: actions arguably scream of hypocrisy. As part of IUC, he 526 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:35,840 Speaker 1: spends his time condemning white institutions of saying that he 527 00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:40,520 Speaker 1: wants to uplift the black community, and yet he works 528 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:43,879 Speaker 1: for an institution that has been proven time and time 529 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:49,000 Speaker 1: again to be rife with racial discrimination. And furthermore, he's 530 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:52,080 Speaker 1: part of a system which has sent two innocent men 531 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,600 Speaker 1: into the bowels of a hellish jail. Make it make 532 00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:59,120 Speaker 1: sense for a man who claims to be building a 533 00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:04,280 Speaker 1: kingdom of righteousness, he's left a trail of injustice behind him. 534 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,239 Speaker 7: There's an assumption made, I think by juries and by 535 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:12,520 Speaker 7: lawyers that if the cop is black, then this can't 536 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,759 Speaker 7: be racial. And I thought the jury would have responded 537 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:20,560 Speaker 7: reasonably well to him if the facts weren't so problematic. 538 00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:23,359 Speaker 6: How much do you think race played a role in 539 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,600 Speaker 6: this particular situation in terms of them being young black 540 00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:31,839 Speaker 6: men in a situ way young lack men overly criminal life. 541 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:34,960 Speaker 7: There's a very short answer, and there's a really long answer. 542 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,400 Speaker 7: I'll give you the very short answer I think race 543 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,480 Speaker 7: factors into everything that happens in this city or in 544 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:45,000 Speaker 7: this country. So was it relevant, Yes, I think it 545 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:47,839 Speaker 7: was in an unconscious indirect way. 546 00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:52,000 Speaker 1: So after spending eleven months in jail, their bail is 547 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:56,600 Speaker 1: significantly reduced. Both men's families are able to pay out 548 00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:59,839 Speaker 1: to get them out, and eventually the charges against them 549 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:05,520 Speaker 1: drops completely. In twenty fifteen, Corey and Malik reached out 550 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 1: to Michael lmur to try and get some compensation. Michael 551 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,240 Speaker 1: thought it was a strong case and begun the process 552 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:15,880 Speaker 1: of suing the NYPD. As part of that, he recorded 553 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:20,480 Speaker 1: what's called a deposition, a pre trial oral testimony with Nathaniel, 554 00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:22,720 Speaker 1: where he had the chance to ask him a bunch 555 00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:24,080 Speaker 1: of questions under oath. 556 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:29,719 Speaker 7: He has a certain charisma to him. He was very controlled, 557 00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:33,360 Speaker 7: he was trying very hard not to say anything. 558 00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:37,560 Speaker 1: Basically to Michael, he came off, well, I. 559 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:40,280 Speaker 7: Mean that if he's talking to a bunch of people, 560 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:44,960 Speaker 7: particularly people that are younger than him, he sounds confident, 561 00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:48,959 Speaker 7: he sounds knowledgeable, he sounds like he knows what he's 562 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:55,200 Speaker 7: talking about, and for people who are a little bit lost, 563 00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:59,200 Speaker 7: it's a little comforting to have that person to turn 564 00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:02,319 Speaker 7: to who can give you the guidance you think you need. 565 00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:07,719 Speaker 7: He seemed to know what he was talking about, or 566 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:10,799 Speaker 7: he gave off that appearance, and if you didn't know 567 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:12,439 Speaker 7: any better, you'd think he did. 568 00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:16,200 Speaker 1: Michael had done his research and knew Nathaniel was part 569 00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:19,360 Speaker 1: of a controversial church, but he made no mention of 570 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:24,160 Speaker 1: it in the hour's long deposition. In fact, he actively 571 00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:25,680 Speaker 1: avoided speaking about it. 572 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:30,480 Speaker 7: He wasn't so bombastic, he wasn't so aggressive verbally. He 573 00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:34,759 Speaker 7: didn't have that kind of bullying tone that you see 574 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:36,040 Speaker 7: in the videos. 575 00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:37,960 Speaker 1: And yet Michael says. 576 00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,240 Speaker 7: Detective Israel was not a model of transparency. 577 00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:45,359 Speaker 6: No, do you think Nathaniel was a corrupt cop? 578 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:49,600 Speaker 7: Not in the sense that we would use the word 579 00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:55,279 Speaker 7: corrupt as a variation on criminal, right, Like, I never 580 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:57,640 Speaker 7: thought of him as this sort of person who would 581 00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:01,400 Speaker 7: steal money from a client or get bought off by somebody. 582 00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:02,560 Speaker 2: But I. 583 00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,600 Speaker 7: Think it is a form of moral corruption when you 584 00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:11,319 Speaker 7: prosecute somebody who didn't commit the crime you're prosecuting them for. 585 00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:15,640 Speaker 7: To me, that is corrupt. It's just not corrupt in 586 00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:16,600 Speaker 7: a criminal sense. 587 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:21,200 Speaker 1: It's a different kind of corruption, the kind that hides 588 00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:26,200 Speaker 1: behind procedure and badge numbers and maybe the most dangerous 589 00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:30,200 Speaker 1: kind of all. So why does Michael think that Nathaniel 590 00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:30,520 Speaker 1: did it? 591 00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:33,760 Speaker 7: Low hanging fruit? I would say that was the biggest 592 00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:36,040 Speaker 7: thing for him. It's low hanging fruit. He's got this 593 00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:40,319 Speaker 7: pattern robbery. He's got supervisors who I would assume are 594 00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:42,799 Speaker 7: pressing him to close as many cases as he can 595 00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,640 Speaker 7: and as quick time period as he can. Certainly, two 596 00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:49,440 Speaker 7: young black men railroaded for crimes they didn't commit strikes 597 00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:53,160 Speaker 7: me as antithetical to the teachings of his church, and 598 00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:57,680 Speaker 7: really antithetical to the teachings of any church. 599 00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:01,480 Speaker 1: In the end, the NYPD agreed to settle the case 600 00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:03,280 Speaker 1: and it didn't go to a jury. 601 00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:07,080 Speaker 7: Judge called us in and said that the city, you're 602 00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:12,120 Speaker 7: going to lose this case. And they made a it's 603 00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:15,560 Speaker 7: a certain type of offer and federal litigation where they 604 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:20,719 Speaker 7: offered each plaintiff two hundred and fifty thousand dollars plus 605 00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:24,239 Speaker 7: they'd pay the legal fees separately, So Corey and Leak 606 00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:27,440 Speaker 7: with each pocket two fifty and that was a good 607 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,120 Speaker 7: outcome for them. 608 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:32,360 Speaker 1: It was a life changing amount of money for the 609 00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:35,080 Speaker 1: two men who'd suffered immensely at the hands of the 610 00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:39,920 Speaker 1: criminal justice system. From what Michael understands, both men are 611 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:43,239 Speaker 1: doing well and money was put to good use, put 612 00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:46,480 Speaker 1: into accounts, used to purchase a place to live, and 613 00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:50,799 Speaker 1: to support dependents. In terms of what happened to Nathaniel 614 00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:55,040 Speaker 1: Well the following year, in twenty sixteen, he retired from 615 00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:59,080 Speaker 1: the force. Michael thinks it's unlikely that this has anything 616 00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,480 Speaker 1: to do with the outcome the case, but he does 617 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:05,000 Speaker 1: think his role at AUIC might have informed his decision 618 00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:05,359 Speaker 1: to leave. 619 00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:08,440 Speaker 7: I always had the sense that he was sort of 620 00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:11,560 Speaker 7: treading water at his day job, and once the other 621 00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:17,120 Speaker 7: job got moving, he retired, took the pension and moved on. 622 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,600 Speaker 7: I was, I have to admit, more than a little 623 00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:25,399 Speaker 7: surprised to see how large his church has become. There 624 00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:29,759 Speaker 7: have been black Israelites preaching on street corners for decades 625 00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:34,960 Speaker 7: and not taken seriously. For the most part, this style 626 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:39,000 Speaker 7: of proselytizing, which is to proselytize through conflict, right to 627 00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:41,680 Speaker 7: say provocative things, get people on the street to get 628 00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:46,560 Speaker 7: angry and then have a back and forth. It never 629 00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:50,400 Speaker 7: struck me that that was a model for success. 630 00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:55,839 Speaker 1: And yet, as Michael acknowledges, but iuic it has been 631 00:40:56,840 --> 00:41:00,759 Speaker 1: AUC took a fringe ideology and turned it into a 632 00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:05,520 Speaker 1: movement with reach, with resources, and a figurehead who once 633 00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:09,120 Speaker 1: wore the badge of the very state he now rails against. 634 00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:13,680 Speaker 1: I'm proud of us. We've learned something from all of this. 635 00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:18,440 Speaker 1: It seems as though IUC doesn't want to be opened 636 00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:23,280 Speaker 1: up to scrutiny, doesn't want a real journalist to actually 637 00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:29,200 Speaker 1: interrogate them. We got closer than any other British journalist has, 638 00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:34,960 Speaker 1: and from coming to America, from visiting IUC on the 639 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:39,440 Speaker 1: fourth of July, we do have a richer, fuller picture 640 00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:45,800 Speaker 1: of the Israelites. Later in the evening, watching the fireworks 641 00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:48,799 Speaker 1: on Coney Island out across the water, I reflect on 642 00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:52,160 Speaker 1: the day there's a certain intimacy that you get from 643 00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:58,440 Speaker 1: meeting people in real life. However, briefly illusions shatter reality 644 00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:03,120 Speaker 1: comes to the fore. While being here in America, I 645 00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:06,560 Speaker 1: learned that Bishop Nathaniel was part of something shameful when 646 00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:10,920 Speaker 1: those men were sent to Rikers, which to me solidifies 647 00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:14,040 Speaker 1: the idea that any institution he is at the helm 648 00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:17,400 Speaker 1: of is not a safe place for young black people 649 00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:20,680 Speaker 1: to be within. I hope that this whole process of 650 00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:24,080 Speaker 1: interviewing ex members, lawyers, and loved ones of Joy Morgan 651 00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:27,759 Speaker 1: will bring some of their secrets to light. That it 652 00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:30,440 Speaker 1: will allow people who are skirting the edges of the church, 653 00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:35,280 Speaker 1: perhaps watching the YouTube videos engaging with the social media content, 654 00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:38,759 Speaker 1: to make an informed decision about whether or not to 655 00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:43,279 Speaker 1: join us, to know about some of the darkness that 656 00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:48,879 Speaker 1: exists within the folds, under the fringes for Joy and 657 00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:52,439 Speaker 1: for her family. When I get back to the UK, 658 00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:56,600 Speaker 1: there's a message waiting for me. I can hardly believe 659 00:42:56,640 --> 00:43:01,759 Speaker 1: who it's from. Six years since we spoke and after 660 00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:08,080 Speaker 1: months of radio silence, Joy's elder sister Dion, is finally 661 00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:09,400 Speaker 1: ready to speak. 662 00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:13,400 Speaker 6: My mom called me and she said, oh, the landlord 663 00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:15,840 Speaker 6: called and said they haven't heard from Joy, John the 664 00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:16,600 Speaker 6: pedo rent. 665 00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:18,400 Speaker 7: I just started crying. 666 00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:20,640 Speaker 6: I just knew something was seriously wrong. 667 00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:22,480 Speaker 5: She wouldn't leave us like that. 668 00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:31,160 Speaker 1: If you have information you would like to share with 669 00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:34,520 Speaker 1: us about Joy Morgan or I u S, please email 670 00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:38,879 Speaker 1: The Missing Sister Podcast at gmail dot com. If you've 671 00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:41,719 Speaker 1: been affected by any issues in this podcast and need 672 00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:45,399 Speaker 1: someone to talk to, the Samaritans are always available day 673 00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:48,319 Speaker 1: or night three hundred and sixty five days a year. 674 00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:52,280 Speaker 1: You can call them for free on one one six 675 00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:58,000 Speaker 1: one two three, email them at Joe at Samaritans dot org, 676 00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:01,960 Speaker 1: or visit Samaritans dot com to find your nearest branch 677 00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:05,880 Speaker 1: for advice, support and options. If you or someone you 678 00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:10,319 Speaker 1: love goes missing, text or call Missing People on one 679 00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:16,520 Speaker 1: one six zero zero zero or visit www dot missing 680 00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:21,480 Speaker 1: people dot org dot UK. The Missing Sister podcast has 681 00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:25,480 Speaker 1: partnered with The Mirror on their Missed campaign, highlighting forgotten 682 00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:29,680 Speaker 1: cases of missing people. To support the campaign, please sign 683 00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:32,600 Speaker 1: the petition linked to pressure the government into publishing a 684 00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:36,640 Speaker 1: new Missing Children and Adult strategy. Invest in prevention for 685 00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:39,680 Speaker 1: those at most risk of going missing and offer support 686 00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:42,360 Speaker 1: to every missing child or adult on their return