1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,520 Speaker 1: Just imagine your money could be turned off with a 2 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:06,400 Speaker 1: click of a button from above, or you can't buy 3 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 1: this amount of meat this month. So it's programmable, so 4 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: that you could see how that could be used by 5 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 1: the government in the various ways to stop people from 6 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 1: spending their money the way that they want to and 7 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: be used as a tool of oppression. 8 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 2: In the United States, the money in the bank isn't 9 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 2: probably at super great risk. The bigger risk is more 10 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:27,160 Speaker 2: of a long term risk of continued centralization. And then 11 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 2: you understand there's a solution like bitcoin. It makes it 12 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:32,159 Speaker 2: pretty obvious where the world would go to. 13 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 1: And so when you look at bitcoin, which is a 14 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 1: decentralized version that's completely open and that's permissionless, that can't 15 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 1: be tampered with by any single one entity or organization 16 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 1: or government. That actually is a very good payment system 17 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: as well. It's a payment system as well as a 18 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:53,239 Speaker 1: good store value all in this one beautiful new invention. 19 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 1: That's the difference between Bitcoin and these other CBDCs. It's 20 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: CBDCs are forced on people from the top, whereas bitcoins 21 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 1: adopted from the ground up because people actually see the 22 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:05,480 Speaker 1: value in having something that can't be debased. That is 23 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:08,320 Speaker 1: out of the hands of the governments that mismanage their currency. 24 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 2: How should they average person think about getting in Is 25 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 2: it too late for them? 26 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 1: Think of it as a way to save in something 27 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 1: that can't be debased. And you just have to understand 28 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:20,399 Speaker 1: if if your life is feeling more expensive, you're probably 29 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:22,960 Speaker 1: saving in the wrong money, or at least you're thinking 30 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 1: of the wrong money because the food's getting more expensive. 31 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 1: It's because the money itself is losing value as the 32 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:32,680 Speaker 1: houses are all getting really expensive. It's a dollar can't 33 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 1: buy as much house as it used to. But for 34 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 1: people that have saved in bitcoin over the last three 35 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:38,960 Speaker 1: or four years, everything's getting cheaper. 36 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 2: I'm sitting down with Sam Callahan. He is the lead analyst. 37 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 2: Senior analyst. Sorry, that's swam bitcoin. So swam bitcoin is 38 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 2: a bitcoin only company that's really a media company first. 39 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 2: I like to think of it as does an amazing 40 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 2: job of putting out content, education and so anyway, he's 41 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 2: the lead analyst. We're going to sit down. I want 42 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 2: to talk today about the collapse of the banking system. 43 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 2: You hear a lot about it. We see banks going down. 44 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 2: Everyone still has PTSD from two thousand and eight. I 45 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 2: think there's a little bit of a case of the 46 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 2: generals fighting the last war, so to speak. We want 47 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 2: to talk about the danger of the banking system, but 48 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 2: not just in the United States, but globally, what's happening 49 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:25,360 Speaker 2: with that, the dangers of the central bank digital currency CBDCs, 50 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:29,359 Speaker 2: and ways that we can counter that. So, you know, 51 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 2: jumping into this, let's just talk domestically. In the United States, 52 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 2: we constantly hear headlines, well maybe not complete mainstream media headlines, 53 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:42,240 Speaker 2: but the banks were in trouble. We saw in twenty 54 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 2: twenty three three banks collapse, which were actually bigger than 55 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 2: like the two thousand and eight banking collapse. And I 56 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:50,360 Speaker 2: know for myself getting hit really hard in two thousand 57 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 2: and eight, twenty twelve, thirteen fourteen, I didn't trust the banks, 58 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:56,920 Speaker 2: and that's actually what led me to bitcoin. In twenty fifteen, 59 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:58,640 Speaker 2: I was in the process of getting money out of 60 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 2: the banks to put into a Panama bank account. So 61 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 2: I thought the banks and Panama were capitalized better than 62 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 2: the US banks, and I just said, well, bitcoin's actually 63 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 2: the same thing. I'll just do that. But I had 64 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 2: PTSD from banks collapse, so a lot of people do. 65 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 2: We saw the bank's collapsing. So what's the status of 66 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 2: the banks domestically, we'll start with that right now. 67 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:21,360 Speaker 1: Well, basically, the Federal Reserve was able to put a 68 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 1: band aid all over that. So they came out with 69 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 1: their new program, the Bank Term Funding Program, which actually 70 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 1: did really well to kind of quell the problems going 71 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:30,519 Speaker 1: on there. But you're right, it was the second and 72 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 1: third largest bank failures in US history. Now, there's a 73 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 1: lot of blame to go around, but I think part 74 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: of the blame has to go on the banks themselves 75 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 1: for poor risk management because a lot of their depositors 76 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 1: were very concentrated in tech, like overly concentrated in tech, 77 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: overly concentrated in cryptocurrencies, and so when there was a 78 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 1: lot of issues in those sectors, they saw a lot 79 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 1: of panic and a lot of their deposits flew all out. 80 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 1: At the same time, then you had this traditional bank run. 81 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 1: But at the same time, you could also blame the 82 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 1: Federal Reserve because the Federal Reserve didn't provide guidance and said, hey, 83 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: we're gonna keep rates low, We're not even thinking about 84 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 1: raising rates. All these banks said, Okay, we're going to 85 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 1: buy all these bonds at really low rates, and then 86 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 1: lo and behold, the FED went on one of the 87 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 1: fastest rate hike cycles in its history. So totally screwed 88 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: these banks who bought all these bonds and then suddenly 89 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 1: they got all these depositors flooded out. At the same 90 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:23,359 Speaker 1: time they have to sell the bonds at a loss, 91 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:26,479 Speaker 1: and that's how these banks got into huge problems. But 92 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 1: right now, like I said, they kind of papered it 93 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: all over and so you could say that they were 94 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:34,600 Speaker 1: in trouble. But now it seems like things are kind 95 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 1: of for the time being, kind of calmed down. But 96 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 1: there are some risks there. There's risks with the commercial 97 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 1: real estate exposure with some of these regional banks. And 98 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:45,719 Speaker 1: I think we spoke about this a little bit before, 99 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 1: but what happened in the aftermath is actually just more 100 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 1: concentration of the banking sector. JP Morgan Chase was actually 101 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:55,160 Speaker 1: one of the big beneficiaries of those collapses. They picked 102 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 1: up First Republic for pennies on the dollars. They had 103 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 1: record profits last year. So this is what typically happens, 104 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 1: is you have more and more concentration. One bank failure 105 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 1: that I think still people forget about. It wasn't a failure, 106 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: but it should have been. Was credit sweet, It was 107 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 1: a shotgun acquisition. Regulators came in gave UBS a really 108 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:17,600 Speaker 1: sweet deal on a Sunday afternoon, saying, hey, you guys 109 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 1: have to acquire this global systemically important bank. If that 110 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:23,679 Speaker 1: thing would have toppled, we would probably had a contagion event. 111 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:26,720 Speaker 1: But now we have more concentration. UBS is one of 112 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: the largest banks in the world because they just acquired 113 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 1: one of their biggest rivals. And so when you have concentration, 114 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: more concentration of the banking sector, it leads to long 115 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:39,480 Speaker 1: term fragility, right, because if something happens to those bigger 116 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 1: banks down the road, well, then it's even more risk 117 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 1: of a contagion event, more problems. And so this is 118 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:48,280 Speaker 1: kind of like the trend we've seen over the last 119 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:51,599 Speaker 1: twenty years of just more and more bank concentration, and 120 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 1: that leads to single points of failure and more fragility 121 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:57,279 Speaker 1: over the long term. And then things like moral hazard, 122 00:05:57,320 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 1: right if they just think they're going to get bailed out, 123 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: if the Fed's going to them out, and just you know, 124 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 1: put these new acronyms in place and paper things over, 125 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: then these banks are thinking, well, I can take as 126 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 1: much risk as I want, and so you can kind 127 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:14,160 Speaker 1: of see how those two things, more concentration, more more hazard, 128 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 1: can create more problems in the future. So that's kind 129 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 1: of how I see it. We'd love to hear your 130 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 1: thoughts too well. 131 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 2: The way I think about it is that the banks 132 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:27,600 Speaker 2: are almost becoming like utilities for the government, if you will, 133 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:30,479 Speaker 2: instead of businesses, like almost like utilities in a sense 134 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:34,160 Speaker 2: where they're being required to buy these government bonds. Yeah, 135 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 2: because the government is spending so much money, they need 136 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 2: to sell the bonds to raise the money. And if 137 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 2: there's not enough buyers, then the banks will be those buyers, 138 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 2: and so and almost being forced to be those buyers, 139 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 2: if you will. And then to your point, they bought 140 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 2: them thinking because the Fed told them they were going 141 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:54,600 Speaker 2: to keep rates low, he said, yeah, not thinking about 142 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 2: not thinking about thinking about raising rates. I think he 143 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 2: said for four years they would keep rates down, and 144 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 2: within two years they jacked them up. So they got 145 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:05,159 Speaker 2: caught off sides. And so the banks are sitting on 146 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:09,040 Speaker 2: the largest losses we've seen in history, but it's paper losses. 147 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 2: So they put the money into government bonds and the 148 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 2: value of those bonds have fallen. However, if they're able 149 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 2: to hold those to maturity, they don't actually lose money. 150 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 2: And the problem is that redemption. But they're becoming these 151 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 2: utilities and they're being forced into that, and they're going 152 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 2: to be continued to be bailed out based off of that, 153 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 2: and I think it's important to understand what that means. 154 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 2: Well from my point of view anyway, I want to 155 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 2: get to the concentration piece. But when you say that 156 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 2: it creates moral hazard because people think they're going to 157 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 2: be bailed out, they will be. They will be bailed 158 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 2: out because the government can't allow anyone to have money 159 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 2: in the banks to lose that money. So we have 160 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 2: like FDI and C insurance which is up to two 161 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 2: hundred ffty thousand dollars. But if people lose their money, 162 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 2: everyone's going to pull the money out of the banks, 163 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 2: so they can't have that. And so the reason why 164 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 2: I think about this is that to your point, they 165 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 2: came up with this BTFP funding thing, and who knows 166 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 2: how many more programs will have to inject money in 167 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 2: the bank to prevent this. So from my perspective, the 168 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:10,679 Speaker 2: way I think about it is the FED is telling 169 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 2: us they're tightening, They're going to continue to tighten the 170 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 2: monetary supply in the market, but I know that they're 171 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 2: going to keep injecting money into the banks, which increased 172 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 2: the liquidity in the system. That's kind of the way 173 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 2: I look at it selfishly. I'm curious if you think 174 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 2: about the same way. 175 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 1: No, I think that the same way. I mean, the 176 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 1: FED showed their cards. They can talk a tough game, 177 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:32,320 Speaker 1: but when push comes to show, once things started to 178 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 1: crack once again, the FDI, see, the FED, the Treasury 179 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 1: all included together to come in and say things come 180 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 1: in and intervene. And that was the hand. And so 181 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 1: if something big comes down the road, what you're going 182 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 1: to see is more liquidity programs. It's going to be 183 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 1: a different name, but it's going to have the same outcome, 184 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 1: which is pumping liquidity into the system preventing any kind 185 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: of collapse from happening. And so in that scenario, you 186 00:08:57,520 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 1: know there's a couple of things, which is you'd want 187 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 1: to own things that are scarce. Right if liquidity comes 188 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:06,719 Speaker 1: into the system, usually scarce assets do well. But one 189 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 1: of the things from working at SWAN, people started to 190 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 1: understand like, hey, when I had my money at the bank, 191 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 1: my bank, my money's not there, like these banks turn 192 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 1: around and bet with it and I might not have 193 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 1: access to it. And so we started to people started 194 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 1: to understand the counterparty risk that they take when they 195 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 1: trust a bank to safeguard their assets. And so you 196 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: have to start thinking about, you know, do you actually 197 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:34,080 Speaker 1: own your wealth when you trust the third party. 198 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 2: Let's put a pin in that when we come back 199 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 2: to that. So we're definitely going to talk about practical, 200 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:41,080 Speaker 2: practical things that we can do to protect ourselves in benefit. 201 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:42,840 Speaker 2: Even I think as this goes on, that's the way 202 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 2: I look at it. These are not good things. These 203 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 2: are all bad things. I wish they weren't happening. Scared 204 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 2: for my kids and my future generations. But at the 205 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 2: same time, we can use them to our advantage. So 206 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 2: we'll talk about that. But let's let's get back to 207 00:09:56,559 --> 00:10:00,199 Speaker 2: this issue. So I think we agree, and I don't 208 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:01,319 Speaker 2: want to put words in your mouth, but I think 209 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:04,560 Speaker 2: we agree that the fear of having money in the 210 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:08,560 Speaker 2: bank and losing it is overblown. The real fear or 211 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:11,200 Speaker 2: risk is the concentration in the banks. Would you agree 212 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 2: with that statement. 213 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:15,200 Speaker 1: Because I only agree with that statement because they will 214 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:18,960 Speaker 1: come in and build things out, right, right, So I agree. 215 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 2: I agree. Yeah. Now, legally the money in the bank 216 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 2: is not your money legally, right, so it's owed to you. 217 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 2: The debt. It's a debt, so the bank's owed to you, 218 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:31,320 Speaker 2: which is why they can do what they want with it. 219 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, I'm raising money for a 220 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 2: public deal right now, and someone was trying to wire 221 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 2: money in and the bank said, why are you sending 222 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 2: this money and said, oh, this seems to be related 223 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 2: to bitcoin and cryptocurrency. We won't allow you to send 224 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 2: it Fidelity. Was it Fidelity? I have it on my phone. 225 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 2: I forget what a major bank? Finealit is pretty crypto friendly, 226 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 2: one of the big banks, and they wouldn't allow them 227 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:56,560 Speaker 2: to transfer money. And they're going through this whole process 228 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 2: right now. So the banks can actually do that. And 229 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 2: so my fear, going back to the real fears not 230 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 2: so much that I'll lose my money. Maybe it gets 231 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 2: it could hypothetically get negotiated down if the bank's collapsed 232 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:11,960 Speaker 2: and FDIC had to pay it get negotiated down through 233 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:14,080 Speaker 2: some sort of like a bankruptcy settlement. But I think 234 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:17,160 Speaker 2: the bigger fear is this concentration you're talking about. And 235 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 2: instead of this decentralized banking system where like I have 236 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 2: a local bank, my local banker knows what I need, 237 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 2: he can give me a loan for my small business. 238 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 2: Now all the decisions are being made by some conglomerate 239 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 2: bank JP Morgan out of New York who. 240 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:32,839 Speaker 1: Doesn't know me, And maybe there's less. 241 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:35,319 Speaker 2: Small business funding out hand. And so if we see 242 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:37,720 Speaker 2: a concentration in the banking system, we see a concentration 243 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 2: through the economy as well. 244 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, when you look at the concentration that's happened in 245 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 1: the banking system over the last since the pandemic happened, 246 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 1: Really we know from like the PPP loans and some 247 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:53,439 Speaker 1: of these programs that the small regional banks were absolutely 248 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:55,839 Speaker 1: critical for small businesses. That's where a lot of the 249 00:11:55,920 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 1: rural communities depend on their local, smaller regional banks, and 250 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 1: those are the ones that are closing their doors at 251 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: an increasing alarming rate. And so when you to think 252 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 1: about things like financial inclusion, that's the people that are 253 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 1: going to hurt are the people that don't really have 254 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 1: access to banking and then you know, the concentration of 255 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 1: the banks is a problem too, because, like you kind 256 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 1: of were alluding to, there's not as much competition, so 257 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 1: these large banks can do whatever they want in terms 258 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 1: of jacking up fees on their customers, maybe doing something 259 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:30,320 Speaker 1: even more you know, in terms of freedom, like surveillance programs. 260 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 1: I think that's that like in a CBDC, like incorporating 261 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 1: these programs, that there's really no competition to fight back 262 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:40,319 Speaker 1: against it because it's only like four banks that are 263 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 1: servicing most of the country, you know, and they're really 264 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 1: tied into the Federal Reserve and the government. And you 265 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:49,079 Speaker 1: can see how this could become a problem if they 266 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:52,559 Speaker 1: start to unload some of these new technologies that infringe 267 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 1: on you know, privacy and basic human rights. It would 268 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:57,559 Speaker 1: be really hard for people to fight back against it 269 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 1: if they don't have other options to turn to up 270 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 1: you know. 271 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, and we don't have a small local storat shop too, 272 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 2: so we're limited on what we can buy. We only 273 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 2: can buy from big conglomerates. We can go to Target 274 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 2: and we can buy the five or six things they 275 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 2: have on the shelf, but we can't get the special 276 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:11,679 Speaker 2: thing in. 277 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:14,679 Speaker 1: The pandemic, right, right, they kept Walmart open. But all 278 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: this is right, and I think there was a reason 279 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 1: behind that. 280 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:20,840 Speaker 2: Yeah. So then as we see this concentration happening, and 281 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 2: it's not just happening in the United States, it's happening globally. 282 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:26,680 Speaker 2: So as you mentioned, credit Suite went down, got acquired 283 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 2: by UBS, what's happening through Europe as well. So we're 284 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:32,840 Speaker 2: starting to see this concentration continue to happen. Then you mentioned, 285 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:34,959 Speaker 2: let's jump into the next topic. You mentioned then the 286 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 2: risk of having something like a central bank digital currency. 287 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:41,320 Speaker 2: So ideally a central bank digital currency means it's the 288 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 2: central bank that issues the currency, as opposed to like 289 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:47,480 Speaker 2: a local bank. And so as we consolidate and can 290 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:52,440 Speaker 2: concentrate that down, then that risk becomes even more apparent. 291 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 2: I suppose. Now different countries are in different stages of this. 292 00:13:57,880 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 2: I know you've done a ton of work on this. 293 00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:02,079 Speaker 2: So we were talking before we kind of jumped down 294 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:05,680 Speaker 2: live here in Europe they seemed to be well. Of course, 295 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 2: China was the first one to roll theres out, no doubt, right, 296 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:11,079 Speaker 2: Communist China, of course they did. Europe seems to be 297 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 2: hot on the trail doing that as well, maybe pushing 298 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:17,320 Speaker 2: it much before the United States kind of tell us 299 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 2: what's going on with that. 300 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd say out of all the Western countries ECB 301 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 1: and the EU or the furthest along to a retail CBDC. 302 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 1: And I think just for people who aren't familiar with it, CBDC, 303 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 1: I mean, just imagine your money could be turned off 304 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:36,360 Speaker 1: with a click of a button from above, and so 305 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 1: it could be programmed to say you can only use 306 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 1: it at certain times of the day, or you can't 307 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 1: buy this amount of meat this month. So it's programmable, 308 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 1: so that you could see how that could be used 309 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 1: by the government in the various ways to stop people 310 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 1: from spending their money the way that they want to 311 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 1: and be used as a tool of oppression. And so 312 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 1: it's really dangerous concept and China has proven this right. 313 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 1: Some of the things that have happened in China with 314 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 1: their CBDCs is like protesters not being able to access 315 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 1: the public transportation to congregate together when they're trying to dissent. 316 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 1: And you know, the digital euro is really trucking along. 317 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 1: Despite the public comments saying we don't want this thing, 318 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 1: they continue to build it out and they're probably going 319 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 1: to launch it in twenty twenty five, and they just 320 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 1: give an update. And it's really interesting because when you 321 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 1: have a CBDC that's issued by the central bank, like 322 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 1: you said, that is technically safer than regular commercial bank 323 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 1: money because a central bank can't go bankrupt, right, you 324 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 1: can't lose access to it because they have access to 325 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 1: a money printer. You'd rather own a CBDC that doesn't 326 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 1: have that, you know, default risk than a commercial bank money. 327 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 1: And so what they're worried about is people taking their 328 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 1: money out of the banks and put it into the 329 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: CBDCs and disintermediating them. And their solution. Who's worried about 330 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 1: that essential banks and the banks. 331 00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 2: So I could see the banks being worried aby they 332 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 2: don't want to get put out of business. 333 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, the central banks are worried because they're like, well, 334 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 1: this could actually create a lot of financial instability and 335 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 1: cause like a crash of the banking sector. And that's 336 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 1: what the banks are worried about too. Hey, you're going 337 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 1: to take our cheapest source of funding, all of our deposits. 338 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:15,360 Speaker 1: And this is a problem when we need funding and 339 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 1: to make loans in the economy. If we don't have 340 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: the deposits, then we're not going to make as many 341 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:22,040 Speaker 1: loans in the economy, and then we're going to have 342 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 1: a crash because it's just like financial instability, not as 343 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 1: much obviously in a debt fuel economy. If you're not 344 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 1: making loans, you can see how that would hurt economic growth. 345 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 1: And so these banks are worried about it. And so 346 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 1: the ECB's solution, and all these central bank solutions is 347 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 1: to put caps on the CBDCs. Hey, you can only 348 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 1: own three thousand dollars worth of CBDCs at any point 349 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 1: in time. We're going to put strict limits from the 350 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: get go in this so that people can't take too 351 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 1: much money out of the banks, and so they understand 352 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 1: this risk. Now, the interesting part is that there's a 353 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: pilot program happening in India that have been doing this 354 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: for years with those limits, and the National Bureau of 355 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 1: Economic Research just put out a stack and it said, hey, 356 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 1: we had these limits. It's still resulted in significant bank disintermediation. 357 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 1: And so they're still going trucking along saying, hey, we 358 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 1: got the solution. We're going to put these limits, which, 359 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:12,439 Speaker 1: by the way, it is funny to think about like 360 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:15,640 Speaker 1: the money itself already has limits and capital controls from 361 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:17,719 Speaker 1: the get go, but not only that, but it doesn't 362 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 1: stop the disintermediate from the banks. And so these things 363 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:23,360 Speaker 1: are extremely risky, not from just a human rights standpoint, 364 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 1: but also from a financial instability standpoint. And then the 365 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:29,639 Speaker 1: other thing that I'll say is that they need it 366 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:31,879 Speaker 1: to get adopted. Right, people said they don't want it 367 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:34,879 Speaker 1: because of all these problems we talked about with privacy, 368 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 1: and so these central banks are going to launch it 369 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 1: like the ECB, and they have to get people to 370 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:41,879 Speaker 1: adopt it, merchants to adopt it. Well, how do they 371 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:44,919 Speaker 1: do it in India was they actually taxed all the 372 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:48,160 Speaker 1: other payment rails and so they heavily tax every other 373 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 1: option to basically silo people into these CBDCs. So it 374 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 1: gives you an idea of maybe one of the strategies 375 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:55,919 Speaker 1: that the ECB and these other ones are going to take, 376 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:58,920 Speaker 1: which just tax all the other options bring people into it. 377 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:01,119 Speaker 1: And then you can obviously see how it could be 378 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:04,360 Speaker 1: a problem to the banks, but also to just basic 379 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 1: human rights privacies. 380 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:08,040 Speaker 2: And what they did in India it really started. I 381 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 2: think maybe if you look backwards now a couple of 382 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 2: years ago where I think maybe it was twenty sixteen. 383 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:17,440 Speaker 2: Actually they took their large banknotes and they said, hey, 384 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:19,679 Speaker 2: these banknotes are going to be phased out. We're no 385 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 2: longer going to have them. And I forget what they 386 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 2: were at the time of the denominations, but it was very, 387 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:27,200 Speaker 2: very low amounts, and they said, hey, you have I 388 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:29,640 Speaker 2: think it was thirty days or sixty days to turn 389 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 2: these in and get compensated for them because they're going 390 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,720 Speaker 2: to be phased out. But in India they have a 391 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:38,959 Speaker 2: big cash economy there, so people had been stockpiling cash 392 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:42,679 Speaker 2: for decades or maybe even generations, and they said, hey, 393 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:44,439 Speaker 2: if you have to go turn this in or it's 394 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 2: worth nothing. Oh and by the way, you need to 395 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 2: prove to us where you got the money from. And 396 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:51,359 Speaker 2: if you can't prove to us where you got the 397 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:54,120 Speaker 2: money from, either one you're going to suffer MASSI attacks 398 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:57,359 Speaker 2: like fifty percent tax or lose it all completely. And 399 00:18:57,400 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 2: so they first had to bring all that in, then 400 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:02,720 Speaker 2: they started to tax all those other areas. So it's 401 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 2: like that slowly, like the pig and the fence, like 402 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:07,879 Speaker 2: one piece of offense and the second piece of offense 403 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:09,480 Speaker 2: and slowly start to kind of bring back. 404 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:11,359 Speaker 1: They had like a very short amount of time to 405 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 1: even bring them in too, like months. 406 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was like thirty or. 407 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:16,640 Speaker 1: Six, like thirty days, and hey, bring in all your 408 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:19,680 Speaker 1: cash in thirty days or else it's completely worthless. Yeah, 409 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 1: just a complete shit show. 410 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:24,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, we've seen Nigeria has been rolling out something similar. 411 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:27,920 Speaker 2: They've been doing this eira for a long time, and 412 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 2: the een Ira is also their CBDC. And in Nigeria 413 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 2: they had already been using bitcoin because the inflation rate 414 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 2: was so high, and the people said, well, why would 415 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 2: we use this enira. It's like the same thing as 416 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 2: the regular and irs inflationary, and so they tried the 417 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 2: carrot and the stick. First it was discounts if you 418 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:47,119 Speaker 2: used the enira on your petty cabs, things like that, 419 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:49,480 Speaker 2: and then eventually the stick came out, which is, hey, 420 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 2: we're going to penalize you if you don't use it. 421 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:53,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it still didn't where they work though. That's 422 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:54,200 Speaker 1: the thing. 423 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, people just don't want it. 424 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,919 Speaker 1: That's the difference between Bitcoin and these other CBDCs. It's 425 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:03,640 Speaker 1: CBDCs are forced on people from the top, whereas Bitcoin's 426 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 1: adopted from the ground up because people actually see the 427 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:08,879 Speaker 1: value in having something that can't be debased, that is 428 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 1: out of the hands of the governments that mismanage their currencies. 429 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 1: I mean, it's very easy for people in Nigeria to 430 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 1: understand why they want to hold something that the government 431 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 1: can get their hands on because their inflation rates and 432 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 1: the triple digits dealt with it for a long time. 433 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,880 Speaker 1: We just imagine your savings just literally lose its value overnight, 434 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,199 Speaker 1: your wealth that you worked hard to accumulate. So that's 435 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 1: why bitcoin adoption rates in Iceria. 436 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:33,639 Speaker 2: I want to come back to the solutions later, but 437 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 2: I want to keep building up some of this week 438 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:37,160 Speaker 2: because I think it's important we understand, like how it's 439 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 2: happening in other countries, then we can start to see 440 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 2: that path. 441 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:39,960 Speaker 1: Right. 442 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. So another thing I wanted to bring up though, 443 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:46,200 Speaker 2: is this disintermediation of the banks that you're talking about, 444 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 2: and it's not just for us. It was like happening 445 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:50,639 Speaker 2: globally and so also at the same time we have 446 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:57,479 Speaker 2: like this whole bricks block rising of so Brazil, Russia, India, China, 447 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,440 Speaker 2: South Africa and now a lot of nations are joined, knows, 448 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:05,400 Speaker 2: and so you sort of have like the US dollar system, 449 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 2: banking system, if you will, but now there's this like 450 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:13,119 Speaker 2: sort of alternative banking system that's popping up. Big news 451 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:16,200 Speaker 2: went round and round a couple of weeks ago about 452 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 2: Saudi Arabia not renewing the petro dollar agreement that they 453 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 2: had and how that's going to be the death of 454 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 2: the dollar. What's your take on what happened with Saudi Arabia, 455 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 2: the petro dollar and sort of this new financial block 456 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 2: sort of starting to separate from the US dollar system. 457 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 1: Well, it seems like things came to a head when 458 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 1: the United States sees Russians the Russia treasury reserves. Yeah, 459 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:45,880 Speaker 1: that's when everybody woke up to the fact that hey, 460 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 1: actually the system can be weaponized against US if the 461 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 1: United States doesn't agree with our policies. And so you've 462 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 1: seen a shift in how many commodities are priced in 463 00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:00,199 Speaker 1: other currencies. You've seen central banks around the world to 464 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,119 Speaker 1: increase their goal buying at historic rates. They're trying to 465 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 1: diversify their reserves away from treasuries because now there's a 466 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:08,679 Speaker 1: risk that they have to take into account. It's that 467 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 1: the United States has come in and seize them or 468 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,639 Speaker 1: they could block themselves, block them off from the Swiss system. 469 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 1: And you've really seen this. There's a book called Treasury 470 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 1: Wars that goes into this. In the last twenty years, 471 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,720 Speaker 1: you've seen the weaponization of the United States dollar and 472 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:25,679 Speaker 1: a whole dollars, the Swiss system, the payment system, and 473 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:27,399 Speaker 1: so I think you're seeing these countries start to think 474 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,160 Speaker 1: about that more. And so when you look at Saudi 475 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:35,639 Speaker 1: Arabia going and building relations with Russia and China, and 476 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 1: they're starting to build out this Mbridge CBDC program that's 477 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:42,840 Speaker 1: basically a CBDC system where they could transact with each 478 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 1: other very seamlessly. It probably is a far aways away, 479 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 1: but it kind of is a signal to where the 480 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 1: trend going, which is they're trying to build other systems 481 00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:55,159 Speaker 1: to compete with the US dollar system because they have 482 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:57,680 Speaker 1: to protect themselves. It's just incentives, right, They're just trying 483 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:00,880 Speaker 1: to protect their own interests because there is something going 484 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,639 Speaker 1: on with the United States weaponizing the system against them, 485 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 1: so they have to basically. 486 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:08,359 Speaker 2: Well, some of them are forced out of necessity, like Russia. Yes, 487 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,159 Speaker 2: you're kicked out, So what do you do? Do you 488 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:13,119 Speaker 2: just go die? Or do you find it our system. 489 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:15,359 Speaker 2: So some of them are forced by necessity, and then 490 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:19,120 Speaker 2: others are preemptively trying to protect themselves. So China said, 491 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 2: we'll shoot if that can happen to Russia, and every 492 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:23,600 Speaker 2: other nation is doing the same thing. Well, if that 493 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 2: can happen to them, it can happen to us. So 494 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,679 Speaker 2: they're being forced into it and then preemptively kind of 495 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 2: protecting themselves. One thing that people will say quite often 496 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 2: is that you can't just go replace the dollar because 497 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:41,679 Speaker 2: the dollar more than just a currency. It's a payment network, right, 498 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 2: It's the most globally recognized payment network in the world. 499 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:48,480 Speaker 2: And you can't just replace the correspondent banks that send 500 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:50,919 Speaker 2: the money around the swiftests and that sends money around, 501 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 2: or the bond market, because no one's going to invest 502 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 2: into the Russian bond market the Chinese bond market. What 503 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,480 Speaker 2: is your counter to that? Do you agree with. 504 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 1: Well, no, I do agree with that, and I think 505 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 1: it's a long ways away from displacing the dollar. 506 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 2: When you say a long way away, what is that, 507 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 2: I would say decades. 508 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 1: I mean unless there's some kind of hyperinflationary right one 509 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,440 Speaker 1: decade or are like three or four decades I would 510 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:16,480 Speaker 1: lean towards three or four decades. You know, I don't 511 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,120 Speaker 1: really know for sure, but the network effect the dollars 512 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:21,199 Speaker 1: is real, and you know, I think if you just 513 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 1: look at the stable coin growth, like people want dollars. 514 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,119 Speaker 1: There's actually a shortage of dollars, I would say, around 515 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 1: the world, and people want the dollar because compared to 516 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 1: other fiat currencies, it is the strongest one. Same with 517 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 1: the debt market, it's it's by far the most liquid 518 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 1: debt market. And if you're going to hold the debt 519 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 1: of a country, it's you know, are you gonna in 520 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 1: terms of risk? If you compare the United States with 521 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:44,159 Speaker 1: some of these other ones, I mean, they have the 522 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 1: reserve currency. We have the largest economy, largest strongest financial markets. 523 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:54,120 Speaker 1: We in our you know, our country was founded under 524 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:55,800 Speaker 1: the premise that we respect property rights. 525 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 2: You know, these things was founded on that. Yeah. 526 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 1: So you know, it's hard to pick like a competitor, 527 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 1: competing product. 528 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 2: Let me throw out some competitors, right, So there's no 529 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:10,480 Speaker 2: other bond market to invest into. I would agree with that, right, 530 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 2: But you could just buy gold. Yeah, So we're seeing 531 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:18,159 Speaker 2: that there is no replacement for the correspondent banks in 532 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 2: the Swift system, but we could just use the m 533 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 2: Bridge system, which is early. But I think they've done 534 00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 2: you know, a billion dollars billion, I mean half a 535 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:32,840 Speaker 2: trillion dollars of transactions over it already. Yeah, so they 536 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:36,119 Speaker 2: don't have to buy another treasury. Treasuries just could be 537 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,120 Speaker 2: out inside money, as ultim poser calls it. They could 538 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:42,399 Speaker 2: just buy commodities. Yeah, and they don't have to use Swift, 539 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 2: they could use Mbridge. 540 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,719 Speaker 1: Maybe, I would say, I mean even still, like Mbridge 541 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,199 Speaker 1: is so far away. I mean that's like not that 542 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 1: much volume. And honestly, they're coming into the same problems 543 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,199 Speaker 1: as the correspound the banking system because the reason the 544 00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,639 Speaker 1: correspondent the banking system is so expensive is because of 545 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:03,600 Speaker 1: the differentferences in laws between the jurisdictions, and so they 546 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 1: have to somehow in the Enbridge program make them all 547 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 1: interoperable while complying with the local laws. And so it's 548 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,639 Speaker 1: really tricky. And so interoperability is the name of the game. 549 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 1: And if you just have these siloed payment systems, you're 550 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,359 Speaker 1: not really solving the problem. You need it to be 551 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 1: interoperable with everything, which is I mean, I know, keep 552 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,400 Speaker 1: bringing it back biggly, but like really, I mean having 553 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 1: an open source protocol that's completely interoperable, that's actually what 554 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 1: they need. But they're building these like siloed closed systems, 555 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 1: and so I think it's going to take a while, 556 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,439 Speaker 1: even if it's better speeds and fees for them to 557 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 1: overtake anything like the source system. I mean that has 558 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 1: like what fifty years of a head start right now, 559 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 1: even though it's inefficient, it has those risks. I mean, 560 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:52,760 Speaker 1: there is a network effect there, and so I just 561 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:54,920 Speaker 1: think it is probably decades away. But like I said, 562 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 1: it's kind of like the trend is clear what they're 563 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:01,600 Speaker 1: trying to do, whether they'll be successful. But then I mean, 564 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 1: you brought I didn't know this, but like the basket 565 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:09,960 Speaker 1: of from the Russian the NDB, like that was interesting, 566 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,400 Speaker 1: the new currency you talk about that because I find 567 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:13,200 Speaker 1: that really interesting. 568 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 2: So what he's talking about is about a month ago 569 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,880 Speaker 2: in Russia they held a meeting a Saint Petersburg International 570 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:25,479 Speaker 2: Economic Forum, so another economic forum, and specifically to counter 571 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 2: the World Economic Forum. So everyone thinks that the World 572 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:35,600 Speaker 2: Economic Forum and the US and we're having this one 573 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:39,199 Speaker 2: world government. But that's that's over. Like the dream of 574 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 2: that is over at this point. I mean the last 575 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 2: couple of weeks we saw Klaus Schwab being taken down 576 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 2: with allegations of sexual misconduct, and like when they're taking 577 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 2: him down, right, you're starting to see that. I think 578 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,119 Speaker 2: he announced he's stepping down. So anyway, Russia had a 579 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:59,120 Speaker 2: meeting and they created one Saint Petersburg International Economic Forum, 580 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,159 Speaker 2: and in that about a month ago, they announced a 581 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,639 Speaker 2: new currency that they're calling the Unit, and the unit 582 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 2: will be backed. It's by the NDB, which is the 583 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:11,280 Speaker 2: New Development Bank, which is sort of this bricks blocks 584 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 2: counter to the World Bank. And this new unit will 585 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:19,119 Speaker 2: be backed forty percent by a weight of gold, not 586 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 2: a dollar amount, but a weight of gold, sort of 587 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,159 Speaker 2: like how currency used to be, and then a sixty 588 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 2: percent as a basket of the currencies, which is sort 589 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:29,640 Speaker 2: of what John Mayner Kenes has had wanted to happen 590 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:31,439 Speaker 2: out of the Breton Word's agreement to have sort of 591 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 2: this basket of currencies. So let's talk about how we 592 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,639 Speaker 2: protect ourselves now. You know, I wanted to set up 593 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 2: the problem. It's important to understand the problem. I believe 594 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:44,600 Speaker 2: I could sometimes come across as a doom and gloom 595 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 2: kind of guy, because I talk about problems, but I 596 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:50,040 Speaker 2: think about as problems creates or solutions come to problems, 597 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 2: And I think it's important to understand the problem so 598 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 2: you can plan to how do I protect myself If 599 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:57,480 Speaker 2: someone said, Hey, they're going to come break into my 600 00:28:57,520 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 2: front door, then I'm going to barricade my front door. 601 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 2: I'm going to make sure I have an escape out 602 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 2: the back, right, So I just I want to know 603 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 2: the attack vector so I can plan appropriately. So that's 604 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 2: why I want to kind of spend some time doing that, 605 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 2: so sort of set up the problems that we're seeing 606 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 2: right now. And so if we kind of paraphrase this 607 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,720 Speaker 2: real quickly or summarize it really quickly. In the United States, 608 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,320 Speaker 2: the money in the bank isn't probably at super great risk. 609 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:21,440 Speaker 2: The bigger risk is more of a long term risk 610 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 2: of continued centralization. But at the same time the world 611 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 2: is starting to decentralize the banking system intermediate the banking system. 612 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 2: We sort of have these two opposing forces. When you 613 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,600 Speaker 2: understand that, and then you understand there's a solution like bitcoin, 614 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 2: it makes it pretty obvious where the world would go 615 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 2: to go ahead and break that down how the average 616 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 2: person could kind of think about that. 617 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 1: Well, it's pretty simple. I mean, when you look at 618 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 1: the banking system and the concentration, there is a certain 619 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:52,680 Speaker 1: amount of trust that you're having, and you're trusting these 620 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:57,440 Speaker 1: organizations to manage the money appropriately, but also to not 621 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:03,200 Speaker 1: incorporate Triculian type implementations of security and surveillance and things 622 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 1: like that. And so when you look at bitcoin, which 623 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 1: is a decentralized version that's completely open and that's permissionless, 624 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,680 Speaker 1: that can't be tampered with by any single one entity 625 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:18,240 Speaker 1: or organization or government. That actually is a very good 626 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:22,280 Speaker 1: payment system as well. It's a payment system as well 627 00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 1: as a good store value all in this one beautiful 628 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:29,600 Speaker 1: new invention. And so when you look at a decentralized 629 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,680 Speaker 1: system where you remove the need for trust, you don't 630 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 1: have to trust these banks anymore, and you're free to 631 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:39,800 Speaker 1: use it at your own will and you're using a 632 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,800 Speaker 1: form of money that can't be tampered with or manipulated. 633 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:45,320 Speaker 1: I think more and more people are going to understand 634 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:47,280 Speaker 1: the value of that, and they're going to continue to 635 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 1: flock to bitcoin like they have. I mean, there's a 636 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:51,800 Speaker 1: reason why it's becoming more and more popular over the years. 637 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 1: If you just look at it anecdotally, you don't even 638 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:55,800 Speaker 1: have to be a fan of bitcoin, but just ask yourself, 639 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,520 Speaker 1: is bitcoin more popular than it was four years ago? 640 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 1: I mean the answer is definitively yes. 641 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:02,760 Speaker 2: I mean, let me answer that because it's something I 642 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 2: said at dinner last night. Yesterday, big news announcement came 643 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:10,200 Speaker 2: out that President Trump will be speaking at the Bitcoin 644 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 2: Conference in Nashville in like two weeks. 645 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's crazy. 646 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,440 Speaker 2: So we have an event, the Bitcoin Conference in Miami. 647 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 2: The two years ago was twenty five thousand people. I'm 648 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 2: not sure what the attendants will be this year. Fifteen thousand 649 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 2: people call it fifteen twenty thousand people will be there. 650 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:27,360 Speaker 2: You have President Trump, lots of politicians will be there, 651 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:31,920 Speaker 2: the top Wall Street people, the top fintech people will 652 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 2: be there. Some of the best coders and engineers in 653 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 2: the world will be there. Some of the best entertainers 654 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,480 Speaker 2: in the world will be there. I think it could 655 00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 2: be the biggest, most culturally important event going on in 656 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:49,120 Speaker 2: the world, at least the United States. It's not just 657 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 2: a magic internet money. This is the biggest event. Fifteen 658 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 2: twenty thousand people with the biggest people, including the President 659 00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 2: Trump all there. 660 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, we're talking about the largest wealthiest financial institutions, the 661 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 1: black Rocks of the world, and the fidelities of the world. 662 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,240 Speaker 1: Golden Sacks is just announced that they're getting into the 663 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,000 Speaker 1: game again. So I mean this is and then you 664 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:14,200 Speaker 1: got the largest, you know, probably the most popular person 665 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,560 Speaker 1: on the planet. Right now, Trump is speaking at bitcoin 666 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 1: and now one of the major political parties has incorporated 667 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 1: into its official policy platform, right see, Yeah, saying that hey, 668 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 1: we're gonna we're gonna support bitcoin, We're going to denounce CBDCs, 669 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:32,400 Speaker 1: we're gonna support the abilities people to take custody of it, 670 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 1: We're gonna support bitcoin mining. And why is that? I 671 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:37,920 Speaker 1: think they're just starting to understand that this is a 672 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:42,920 Speaker 1: really really important technology to embrace for really the competitiveness 673 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:46,560 Speaker 1: of the United States on a global scale. And I 674 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:50,000 Speaker 1: agree with you completely. I mean, what other conference in 675 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:53,760 Speaker 1: the world brings together that kind of wealth and influence. 676 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,080 Speaker 1: I mean, you'd have to think like Domos, But that's 677 00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:00,320 Speaker 1: a whole other type of influence we're talking about there. 678 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,800 Speaker 1: That's more like, you know, power and control, whereas this 679 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:08,320 Speaker 1: is just like innovation and and and pushing forward this 680 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:12,360 Speaker 1: technology that actually brings power back to the people. And 681 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:14,880 Speaker 1: so it's it's exciting. I mean, it's very, very different 682 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:17,080 Speaker 1: than it was four years ago, that's for sure. I 683 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,120 Speaker 1: Mean the stakes are a lot higher. It's a lot 684 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:23,480 Speaker 1: it's matured a lot. It's it's it's really coming onto 685 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 1: the world stage in a meaningful way at this point. 686 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:29,800 Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean you have President Trump and RFK Junior 687 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,800 Speaker 2: have both uh not just endorsed it, but embraced it. 688 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:37,160 Speaker 2: You have nations like El Salvador. That's that's that's been 689 00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:40,840 Speaker 2: a global miracle. And President Bekaeley is now going and 690 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 2: talking with other world leaders about about making this shift. 691 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:48,080 Speaker 2: Has definitely gone from again that magic internet money to 692 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:55,680 Speaker 2: being on the world stage. And so so for everyone listening, 693 00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 2: I think we've already kind stupp the problem and the solution. 694 00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,880 Speaker 2: It seems inevitable. But how should they average person think 695 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,240 Speaker 2: about getting in? Is it too late for them? How 696 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 2: do they think about, you know, saving in it versus 697 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:10,399 Speaker 2: investing in it and things like that. 698 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:14,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, So I always like to tell people that think 699 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,040 Speaker 1: really long term when they purchase bitcoin, think of it 700 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:19,920 Speaker 1: as a way to save in something that can't be debased, 701 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:22,720 Speaker 1: and you just have to understand if if your life 702 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:26,760 Speaker 1: is feeling more expensive, you're probably saving in the wrong money, 703 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,480 Speaker 1: or at least you're thinking of the wrong money because 704 00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:33,920 Speaker 1: the food's getting more expensive. It's because the money itself 705 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,920 Speaker 1: is losing value as the houses are all getting really expensive. 706 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 1: It's a dollar can't buy as much house as it 707 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:41,719 Speaker 1: used to. But for people that have saved in bitcoin 708 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,520 Speaker 1: over the last three or four years, everything's getting cheaper. 709 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,640 Speaker 1: And why is that. It's because you can't print more bitcoin. 710 00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:52,520 Speaker 1: It's actually a scarce asset that actually increases in value 711 00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:56,640 Speaker 1: as they continue to debase the other currency. And so 712 00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,640 Speaker 1: you have to just think about, hey, yes, this think 713 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,400 Speaker 1: can move in the short term, the price in fiat 714 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,080 Speaker 1: terms can move in the short term, but I own 715 00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:08,080 Speaker 1: something that's very, very scarce that is actually going to 716 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 1: benefit from the continued money printing that's going to happen 717 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,080 Speaker 1: in the future. And so I always recommend people just 718 00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:19,879 Speaker 1: zoom out understand that as bitcoin gets adopted, as this 719 00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:24,520 Speaker 1: trend continues, that it becomes more popular, more influential, as 720 00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:28,399 Speaker 1: the governments and major financial institutions continue to build on it. 721 00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:30,480 Speaker 1: And we're still in the very early days of this, 722 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:33,800 Speaker 1: there's only one thing that can happen to Bitcoin's price 723 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:36,879 Speaker 1: because the supply is completely fixed, and so if there's 724 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:41,040 Speaker 1: more demand for something that's fixed, it's just basic supplying 725 00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:44,400 Speaker 1: demand economics. Where the price is it's going to go 726 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,160 Speaker 1: up in value, and so, yes, it's going to be choppy, 727 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:50,440 Speaker 1: it's going to be it's a choppy ride. But when 728 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:52,800 Speaker 1: you think long term about what you actually want to 729 00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:56,280 Speaker 1: save your wealth into the next ten, twenty fifty years, 730 00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:00,520 Speaker 1: it's hard to look at any other investment that has 731 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:06,520 Speaker 1: the same asymmetric profile or opportunity as bitcoin today. It's 732 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:09,759 Speaker 1: you know, we can get into like other like real 733 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:14,040 Speaker 1: estate has issues, it's it has maintenance issues, it's physical, 734 00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:17,799 Speaker 1: there's natural disasters, there's there could be changes in tax policies, 735 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,440 Speaker 1: it could be seased easily. Like so it's like, do 736 00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:23,920 Speaker 1: I want to own that for fifty hundred years? I 737 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:27,279 Speaker 1: don't know where I want to buy some stocks. Most 738 00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:30,279 Speaker 1: businesses fail over a long period of time, majority of 739 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:32,600 Speaker 1: them fail. Do I want to hold stocks of a 740 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:35,480 Speaker 1: specific company or index funds where most of them are duds? 741 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:38,040 Speaker 1: I don't know, Like probably not. I want to own 742 00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:39,920 Speaker 1: something that I know is going to be scarce, and 743 00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:41,360 Speaker 1: it's going to be around for the next fifty or 744 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,239 Speaker 1: hundred years. And that's why I think people should own 745 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:47,520 Speaker 1: bitcoin and think very, very long term about holding on 746 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:47,880 Speaker 1: to it. 747 00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:52,520 Speaker 2: Good. Do we have any questions anybody want to ask us, 748 00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:53,920 Speaker 2: Sam or myself any questions? 749 00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:58,759 Speaker 1: I'm none that what do you bring norpe Jay ask 750 00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:06,480 Speaker 1: at Dumbai. Oh cool, that's great, I'm like tired and 751 00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:10,239 Speaker 1: sell it long middle Yeah, that's I mean, that's great. 752 00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:12,000 Speaker 1: I think a small amount goes a long way too 753 00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:14,279 Speaker 1: in a portfolio. That's the one thing I'd say too, 754 00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:16,440 Speaker 1: is you know, you don't have to buy like one 755 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:19,959 Speaker 1: hundred percent of your net worth into bitcoin. Even one 756 00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:23,000 Speaker 1: percent five percent has been shown to have meaningful difference 757 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:26,239 Speaker 1: to a portfolio because it moves differently than the rest 758 00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:29,400 Speaker 1: of your portfolio. And then also, if we're even remotely 759 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:31,879 Speaker 1: right about where this could be going, you know, one 760 00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:35,000 Speaker 1: percent allocation to five percent, it's going to grow pretty 761 00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:37,520 Speaker 1: meaningfully and in a short time it could actually make 762 00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:39,880 Speaker 1: up a greater percentage of your role net worth. But like, 763 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:43,440 Speaker 1: position sizing is important for people because it's very volatile. 764 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,600 Speaker 1: You don't want to overexpose yourself and get worried about, 765 00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:49,440 Speaker 1: you know, being down fifty twenty percent whatever it is. 766 00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:52,879 Speaker 1: And so it's just about risk management. So there's nothing 767 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:55,680 Speaker 1: wrong with that. I always just recommend people purchase what 768 00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:58,440 Speaker 1: they feel comfortable with. But the wrong allocation is zero. 769 00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:05,600 Speaker 1: That's what I would say today. Yeah, yeah, questions the 770 00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:09,839 Speaker 1: other three analysts. 771 00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:11,200 Speaker 2: I didn't say the Swift Well, I think we were 772 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,440 Speaker 2: talking about M Bridge project M Bridge, which is from 773 00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:19,360 Speaker 2: the BIS banker and with the letter M. Yeah, the 774 00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:22,840 Speaker 2: letter M yep so M and then bridge and so 775 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:25,520 Speaker 2: that's being built by the BIS Bank of the National 776 00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:29,719 Speaker 2: Settlements and that is a new way for countries to 777 00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:30,680 Speaker 2: pay each other basically. 778 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:37,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like a Hong Kong Bank of China, Saudi Arabia, UAE. 779 00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:42,759 Speaker 1: They're all kind of piloting this new system of CBDCs 780 00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:45,719 Speaker 1: together to try to, you know, like you said, kind 781 00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:57,800 Speaker 1: of compete with Swift dere c. We see what's going online. Well, well, bick, today, 782 00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:01,160 Speaker 1: the US owns two hundred and three thirteen thousand bitcoin, 783 00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:04,920 Speaker 1: so they're actually the fifth largest holder at bitcoin just 784 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:08,759 Speaker 1: from Caesars over the years, and they have been sold it, 785 00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:13,400 Speaker 1: so technically they already owned bitcoin, right now do I 786 00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:15,440 Speaker 1: think that like the Federal Reserve is going to buy 787 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:16,640 Speaker 1: it and put it on the balance sheet. 788 00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:19,320 Speaker 2: I mean maybe if they were smart. 789 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:22,120 Speaker 1: If they were smart, I mean like they've still owned 790 00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:22,879 Speaker 1: some gold on there. 791 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,399 Speaker 2: So the flip side to that is maybe what might 792 00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:31,040 Speaker 2: go down is maybe one of the worst moves in 793 00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:35,000 Speaker 2: history from a government is right now Germany has been 794 00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:38,319 Speaker 2: sitting on billions of dollars of bitcoin and they've been 795 00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:40,560 Speaker 2: selling it all and there's been talks of the US 796 00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:42,680 Speaker 2: selling their bitcoin as well. But it would be like, 797 00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:45,879 Speaker 2: you know, I live at the beach, I own the beach, 798 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:51,319 Speaker 2: and I have you know, one of I own all 799 00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:53,000 Speaker 2: the sand because I owned the beach, and I have 800 00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:55,799 Speaker 2: one thing, one scarce asset that I'm going to trade 801 00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:59,480 Speaker 2: the sam for more sand. Yeah, I already have the sand. 802 00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:01,040 Speaker 2: Why would I get if the one scarce assaf from 803 00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:02,880 Speaker 2: our sands. So the US is literally going to give 804 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:06,279 Speaker 2: up could potentially or Germany's giving up their scarceass or 805 00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:10,560 Speaker 2: their biitcoin for more currency that they print that. It 806 00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:11,239 Speaker 2: doesn't make any. 807 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:13,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't make any sense. It reminds me of 808 00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:16,680 Speaker 1: in the past where you know, tribes of these seashells 809 00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:19,400 Speaker 1: as currencies in the past, and then they come in 810 00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:23,040 Speaker 1: like somebody foreigner comes in and they have other precious resources, 811 00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:25,920 Speaker 1: and then they bring the seashells from somewhere else and 812 00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:28,200 Speaker 1: they say, oh, yeah, I'll give my precious like gold 813 00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:30,120 Speaker 1: or whatever, and I'll take more sea shells. You know, 814 00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:33,080 Speaker 1: it's the same thing. They're trading something very scarce for 815 00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:35,640 Speaker 1: something that, like you said, they can print. And so 816 00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:40,240 Speaker 1: Germany's I think they've sold Similarly, they had fifty thousand 817 00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:44,240 Speaker 1: bitcoin sees from a movie's piracy site. They've sold off. 818 00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:46,960 Speaker 2: I think at least half of it, seventy five percent. 819 00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:49,760 Speaker 1: I think I think they sold up bout thirty thousand bitcoin, 820 00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:52,080 Speaker 1: and I think when they look back on that, I mean, 821 00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:55,800 Speaker 1: that's going to be very very silly, they're going to 822 00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:59,319 Speaker 1: really kick Yeah. But the yeah, US government has sold 823 00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:02,279 Speaker 1: a little bit here there, but they still they like 824 00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:05,080 Speaker 1: I said, they still own two hundred and thirteen thousand, 825 00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:06,880 Speaker 1: or about two hundred ten thousand I think right now. 826 00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:10,960 Speaker 1: And you got to think why they aren't selling like Germany. 827 00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:13,000 Speaker 1: You know, they've held on to it for many, many years, 828 00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:13,600 Speaker 1: and there's. 829 00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:17,799 Speaker 2: Been some talk. We'll say, let's say rumors coming out 830 00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:20,879 Speaker 2: of the Trump administration about potentially starting like a strategic 831 00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:26,840 Speaker 2: bitcoin allocation for the United States. Nothing official, it's rumors 832 00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:27,960 Speaker 2: on the wire, so to speak. 833 00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:31,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, right now, El Salvador is in the lead. So 834 00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:36,640 Speaker 1: Lavador buys a bitcoin a day. They're stacking sat slowly, 835 00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,600 Speaker 1: just at the government level. And the thing about bitcoin 836 00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:42,200 Speaker 1: is it really it is really a first mover or 837 00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:45,680 Speaker 1: advantage for people adopting it. That's the game theory. If 838 00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,680 Speaker 1: you decide to sell your bitcoin or not adopt it, 839 00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:51,879 Speaker 1: somebody else is going to do that. And so if 840 00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:54,320 Speaker 1: they continue to benefit from bitcoin like El Salvador is 841 00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:56,880 Speaker 1: doing right now, eventually nations are going to wake up 842 00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:58,440 Speaker 1: and look at that and be like, well, maybe we 843 00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:00,200 Speaker 1: should just buy a little bit too, And then you 844 00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:04,880 Speaker 1: see how this could be a flywheel of momentum for bitcoin. 845 00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:08,760 Speaker 1: And beauty about bitcoin is everybody benefits who owns bitcoin 846 00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:12,160 Speaker 1: at that point. And so very early days though, I 847 00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:15,800 Speaker 1: mean it's like early days with the institutionalization of bitcoin, 848 00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:19,000 Speaker 1: with these large Wall Street firms and nation state adoption, 849 00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:22,000 Speaker 1: we are really just like right at the startup bat 850 00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:25,160 Speaker 1: So when people say they're late, I think that's nonsense. 851 00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:28,480 Speaker 1: I think we're very very early. Bitcoin's about fifteen years old. 852 00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:31,600 Speaker 1: I think it's very very early days for bitcoin still. 853 00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:33,759 Speaker 1: I mean, just look around in this room right now. 854 00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:40,440 Speaker 2: You know everyone's still out there looking at gold. All right, Well, 855 00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:42,360 Speaker 2: I think we'll wrap it up with oh, okay, go ahead, 856 00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:44,799 Speaker 2: thanking question per se. 857 00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:48,480 Speaker 1: But this is my first heading cycle that goes through. 858 00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:50,120 Speaker 2: I've been and wall for about three years now. 859 00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:57,120 Speaker 1: I'm curious about the minor response to reduction in bitcoin 860 00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:01,160 Speaker 1: harvesting they can do how long you're typical they'd last. 861 00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:04,840 Speaker 2: Since I've not seen this before, I'm curious what curious 862 00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:06,440 Speaker 2: people will think it's going to have. Then. 863 00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:12,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, so you're right. So after the having like bitcoin, 864 00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:15,839 Speaker 1: bitcoin miners main revenue gets cut in half, I would 865 00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:18,320 Speaker 1: say this time around, I feel like the mining industry 866 00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:21,840 Speaker 1: really prepared themselves, I would say compared to previous cycles. 867 00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:25,080 Speaker 1: And the way they prepared themselves is they kind of 868 00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:27,279 Speaker 1: built up their treasuries a little bit. They have larger 869 00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:31,600 Speaker 1: cast positions as well as bitcoin positions. They also they 870 00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:34,120 Speaker 1: have more of a buffer, and then they really updated 871 00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:36,920 Speaker 1: the efficiencies of their fleets to like the newest machines, 872 00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:40,759 Speaker 1: and so they kind of prepared for this eventuality, and 873 00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:42,560 Speaker 1: you kind of see this because you didn't see as 874 00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:45,640 Speaker 1: much hash rate drop off right after the having, whereas 875 00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:48,520 Speaker 1: previous cycles you see a really steep decline and hash 876 00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:52,000 Speaker 1: rate because a lot of miners became unprofitable. And right now, 877 00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:58,600 Speaker 1: I mean the price is going sideways, so yeah, that too. 878 00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:00,560 Speaker 1: I mean you also had the price going up all 879 00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:03,719 Speaker 1: time highs before this having, which never happened before, so 880 00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:06,160 Speaker 1: there's a little bit boost from the price action as well. 881 00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:09,279 Speaker 1: But right now price is just going sideways, and so 882 00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:11,960 Speaker 1: these miners are kind of like, you know, hoping that 883 00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:14,560 Speaker 1: it goes back up. They're kind of maybe selling a 884 00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:16,239 Speaker 1: little bit of bit going they have, They're kind of 885 00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:19,320 Speaker 1: draining their reserves a little bit. They're also looking to 886 00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:23,239 Speaker 1: diversify their revenue streams like AIS making a comeback now 887 00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:27,040 Speaker 1: and all these headlines about pitcoin miners, but a lot 888 00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:29,480 Speaker 1: of them locked in these good power contracts and just 889 00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:33,279 Speaker 1: they're surviving right now, and I think they've actually done 890 00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:35,719 Speaker 1: really well. I think you might see some more consolidation 891 00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:38,400 Speaker 1: in the mining industry. You might see some acquisitions. There 892 00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:43,200 Speaker 1: was just one with Grid and clean Spark just the 893 00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:45,440 Speaker 1: other day, So you might see some more consolidation in 894 00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:50,160 Speaker 1: the mining industry acquisitions, mergers, but right now, I'm pretty 895 00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:52,160 Speaker 1: I think they're doing pretty well, and I think they're 896 00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:53,840 Speaker 1: just hoping that the price is going to do what 897 00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:56,640 Speaker 1: it usually does with previous having cycles, which around like 898 00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:59,040 Speaker 1: six months four to six months afterwards you start to 899 00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:01,160 Speaker 1: see a run up in price, and I think these 900 00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:03,040 Speaker 1: miners are hoping that happens again. 901 00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:07,160 Speaker 2: So I don't know Mark anything, No, I mean, I 902 00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:10,440 Speaker 2: would agree with that. You know, the bitcoin mining space 903 00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:13,240 Speaker 2: is very competitive, and so you have, you know, potentially 904 00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:16,440 Speaker 2: your your single biggest expense is the power that you're 905 00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:19,600 Speaker 2: paying for, and so different people have different power prices 906 00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:22,080 Speaker 2: and contracts locked in at different rates, and so what 907 00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:25,160 Speaker 2: happens typically is the miners that are the least efficient, 908 00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:29,359 Speaker 2: you know, either they spend too much electricity or they 909 00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:31,279 Speaker 2: just their machines are older to the point that they 910 00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:34,000 Speaker 2: made whatever, they'll start shutting off first, right, which then 911 00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:36,920 Speaker 2: the distribution of those coins then go down to everybody 912 00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:39,080 Speaker 2: else down below for everybody that doesn't know what that means. 913 00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:41,400 Speaker 2: If the price of gold were to go to ten 914 00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:45,520 Speaker 2: thousand dollars an ounce tomorrow, then theoretically we would have 915 00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:48,960 Speaker 2: way more people going to mine bold and the rate 916 00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:51,440 Speaker 2: of new gold coming out of the ground would increase rapidly. 917 00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:54,600 Speaker 2: But when the price of bitcoin goes up, there's no 918 00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:56,759 Speaker 2: ability to get more bitcoin out of the ground. So 919 00:45:56,880 --> 00:45:59,960 Speaker 2: right now there's four and a half bitcoin every ten minutes. 920 00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:03,000 Speaker 2: There was a four and fifteen bitcoin a day, I 921 00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:05,920 Speaker 2: believe is what's coming. New new supply being created. And 922 00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:08,040 Speaker 2: even if the price of biccoin went to whatever, ten 923 00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:10,600 Speaker 2: million dollars tomorrow, more people go mine it, but you 924 00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:14,560 Speaker 2: couldn't get more out. And so what happens is the supply, 925 00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:17,279 Speaker 2: the new supply always stays the same, And if some 926 00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:19,600 Speaker 2: of the miners were to shut down because they were 927 00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:22,640 Speaker 2: no longer profitable, the same four and fifty will still 928 00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:24,279 Speaker 2: be created. It would just be split between a small 929 00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:27,480 Speaker 2: group of people. But I think one other thing that 930 00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:29,800 Speaker 2: maybe I'm just curious your take has maybe been helpful, 931 00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:33,000 Speaker 2: is is bigcoin miners actually make money in two ways. 932 00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:35,560 Speaker 2: They make it through the new supply issuance, but they 933 00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:39,560 Speaker 2: also make it through fees from processing transactions. And we 934 00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:44,120 Speaker 2: have seen the fees for transactions have gone up, at 935 00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:48,040 Speaker 2: least temporarily spiked up. Do you think that really helped offset. 936 00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:50,920 Speaker 1: That around the time of the happening. That really helped 937 00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:53,839 Speaker 1: offset it at least for like the first month. That's 938 00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:56,279 Speaker 1: kind of drained back down that some of the you know, 939 00:46:56,400 --> 00:47:01,239 Speaker 1: speculation around these ordinals and inscriptions have kind of died 940 00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:03,600 Speaker 1: down of late, but that kind of drove fees up, 941 00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:05,960 Speaker 1: which really helped the miners at the beginning, right kind of, 942 00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:08,400 Speaker 1: But that's kind of died down now, so fees are 943 00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:12,200 Speaker 1: kind of back down and will that spike again potentially, 944 00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:14,120 Speaker 1: But I don't think miners are kind of like betting 945 00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:17,279 Speaker 1: on that, you know, because you know, that would be 946 00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:19,759 Speaker 1: kind of a risky thing to do. So, like the 947 00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:26,759 Speaker 1: fee marketing bitcoin fluctuates pretty randomly, so could it happen, yes, 948 00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:30,560 Speaker 1: But I actually I would think that that was maybe 949 00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:32,719 Speaker 1: like a little bit of a one off demand, Like 950 00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:34,399 Speaker 1: maybe it might come back a little bit if there's 951 00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:37,799 Speaker 1: a lot of speculative fervor that comes into the market, 952 00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:40,960 Speaker 1: more retail investors, new entrants come in, that could bring 953 00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:43,319 Speaker 1: the fees back up, but you know that maybe that's 954 00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:45,319 Speaker 1: like next year or something. I think there is still 955 00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:48,720 Speaker 1: like a spucketive mania part of the cycle that hasn't 956 00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:49,600 Speaker 1: happened yet Yeah,