WEBVTT - MDMA: Pharmacological Ecstasy 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:06.160 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from housetop works 0:00:06.200 --> 0:00:14.480 dot com. Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 0:00:14.480 --> 0:00:16.880 My name is Robert Lamb and my name is Christian Sager. 0:00:17.239 --> 0:00:20.400 Today we are going to be talking about a drug. 0:00:20.960 --> 0:00:22.959 We're gonna be talking about m d m A, also 0:00:23.000 --> 0:00:26.680 known as ecstasy, but specifically we're gonna be getting into 0:00:26.800 --> 0:00:30.760 kind of in this episode. What the you know, breakdown 0:00:30.800 --> 0:00:33.239 of it is, how it works in chemistry, how it 0:00:33.240 --> 0:00:36.320 works in biology, what its effects are on human body. 0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:38.800 And then we're gonna do a second episode that's going 0:00:38.840 --> 0:00:41.400 to be mainly about experiments that have been conducted for 0:00:41.440 --> 0:00:45.240 what thirty years now maybe longer on how you can 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:47.800 use m d m A to cure all kinds of 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:52.279 things or at least alleviate things from cancer to uh 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:54.800 using it in psychotherapy, and using it to help people 0:00:54.800 --> 0:00:56.600 with PTSD. Yes, so you can think of it as 0:00:56.600 --> 0:01:00.240 a one to approach to looking at a particular er 0:01:00.640 --> 0:01:03.280 drug and if you guide some gals like this, we 0:01:03.280 --> 0:01:06.880 can take the same approach with other substances in the future. Yeah, definitely. 0:01:06.880 --> 0:01:08.800 It seems like once we did the research for this, 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:11.720 it seems like this is rife. This avenue is right 0:01:11.800 --> 0:01:15.000 for for more research and in episodes along these lines. 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:17.959 You know, I'd love to do another kind of episode 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:21.800 that's based on the pharmacology of designer drug or or 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:25.280 a commercial kind of street drug. Yeah, science based, open 0:01:25.319 --> 0:01:28.839 minded exploration of what the substance is, what its properties are, 0:01:29.080 --> 0:01:32.600 and then how can those properties conceivably be used to 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:35.520 our advantage in a non recreational way. Now, before we 0:01:35.520 --> 0:01:38.160 get started, I want to remind you all where you 0:01:38.200 --> 0:01:40.119 can find us and all the other things that we do. 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:42.360 A lot of people that we encounter actually think that 0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:44.360 the podcast is the only thing that Stuff to Blow 0:01:44.440 --> 0:01:47.120 Your Mind is, But we actually have blog posts and 0:01:47.280 --> 0:01:50.320 articles that we write every week that are available on 0:01:50.400 --> 0:01:53.600 stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. Uh. Robert and 0:01:53.720 --> 0:01:56.320 I and Joe are also all working for How Stuff 0:01:56.360 --> 0:01:58.800 Works still and we write articles for the new How 0:01:58.840 --> 0:02:03.000 Stuff Works Now site, and robertson doing videos for them 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:05.440 as well. Right, what was the last one that was? 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:07.760 It was about the god helmet, right, which we've talked 0:02:07.800 --> 0:02:09.600 about doing on the show. Yeah, that's most recently want 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:11.520 to come out. But yeah, it's generally something kind of 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:13.960 weird in science. E and I generally put together one 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:16.560 a week, So if you wanna, you know, find out 0:02:16.600 --> 0:02:18.079 all this other stuff about us. So you just want 0:02:18.080 --> 0:02:20.680 to engage with us directly, We're on social media all 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:22.959 over the place. You can interact with us on Facebook, Twitter, 0:02:23.000 --> 0:02:27.200 and Tumbler. And also every Friday at noon Eastern Standard time, 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:30.080 we do a periscope where you can talk to us 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:32.360 for like twenty or thirty minutes. We just hang out 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:34.519 in front of an iPad and chat with our audience. Hey, 0:02:34.560 --> 0:02:37.000 and if you want to support the show, here's something 0:02:37.080 --> 0:02:39.000 you can do. Uh, give us a little love on 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:41.680 iTunes if you happen to listen to us through iTunes. 0:02:41.919 --> 0:02:43.440 We have a lot of reviews on there. A lot 0:02:43.480 --> 0:02:46.239 of them are pretty old. Help us out, help the algorithm. 0:02:46.520 --> 0:02:48.679 Give us a little positive review there, give us a 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:51.119 little love. Would great really appreciate it. Okay, so let's 0:02:51.120 --> 0:02:53.640 get into m d MC. First of all, there's a 0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:58.120 lot of preconceived notions about this drug, and in particular, uh, 0:02:58.160 --> 0:02:59.800 we we were talking about this before the show that 0:02:59.800 --> 0:03:03.280 they're preconceived notions on both sides, right, which there's the 0:03:03.320 --> 0:03:06.240 anti drug side, the sort of uh, you know, this 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:09.040 has to be a legal side, and then there's the 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:11.280 the the side that's like this is going to expand 0:03:11.280 --> 0:03:13.080 your mind and open up new horizons to you that 0:03:13.120 --> 0:03:16.200 you weren't at all aware of UM and and change 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:18.760 your life side kind of right, Yeah, Because yeah, on 0:03:18.760 --> 0:03:23.320 one side you have the anti drug one drugs statements 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:26.720 and then and then yeah, on the recreational side of it, 0:03:27.200 --> 0:03:30.360 you see basically two different types of messaging, right. You 0:03:30.400 --> 0:03:36.120 see individuals who are perhaps over emphasizing the spiritual qualities 0:03:36.120 --> 0:03:38.440 of a particular substance, and this goes around the board 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:41.880 for a number of different drugs. Yeah. Sure, but then 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:45.360 you also see myths about its origin, myths about what 0:03:45.400 --> 0:03:48.560 it does, and myths about the potential negative side effects, 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:52.640 and uh, you know, between all of this, there's certainly 0:03:52.680 --> 0:03:55.840 a more objective you of what it is, where it 0:03:55.880 --> 0:03:58.920 came from, and what it can potentially do in a 0:03:59.000 --> 0:04:01.800 beneficial So our goal in these episodes is going to 0:04:01.880 --> 0:04:04.200 be to kind of drill down between those lines and 0:04:04.320 --> 0:04:07.080 debunk some of this stuff or explain some of these stuff, 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:10.040 some of this stuff a little bit more thoroughly cleanly. 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:12.040 And I think a good place for us to start 0:04:12.200 --> 0:04:14.800 is UM with the journal entries of a guy named 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:17.880 Alexander Shulgin, who will talk more about later, but he 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:21.080 is considered the godfather of ecstasy, the godfather of M 0:04:21.160 --> 0:04:24.400 d M a uh. And these are his journal entries 0:04:24.720 --> 0:04:28.240 published in his book Peak Hall about his first time 0:04:29.040 --> 0:04:32.200 after he synthesized M d m A taking it. This 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:34.800 is I believe in the seventies. So um, we've got 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:36.680 two quotes here. This first one I'm going to read. 0:04:36.960 --> 0:04:41.000 This is from his journal entry on taking a hundred milligrams. 0:04:41.040 --> 0:04:43.799 He says, M d m A intrigued me because everyone 0:04:43.839 --> 0:04:46.360 I asked about it who had used it, answered the 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:49.280 question what's it's like in the same way, and they said, 0:04:49.640 --> 0:04:52.560 I don't know, So what happened? They would say nothing? 0:04:52.800 --> 0:04:56.360 And now I understand those answers. I too think nothing happened, 0:04:56.600 --> 0:05:00.919 but something seemed changed. Before the window open completely, I 0:05:01.000 --> 0:05:04.240 had some somatic effects, a tingling sensation in the fingers 0:05:04.240 --> 0:05:09.000 and temples, a pleasant sensation that wasn't distracting. However, just 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:11.720 after that, there was a slight naja and a dizziness 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:14.800 similar to a little bit too much alcohol. All these 0:05:14.800 --> 0:05:18.200 details disappeared as I walked outside. My mood was light 0:05:18.279 --> 0:05:21.719 and happy, but with an underlying conviction that something significant 0:05:21.720 --> 0:05:24.280 was about to happen. There was a change in perspective, 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:26.840 both in the near visual field and in the distance. 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:30.360 My usually poor vision was sharpened. That's something that's really 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:34.000 interesting to me. Uh and that he caught onto that immediately, 0:05:34.000 --> 0:05:36.479 because that's a that's a side effect that isn't that 0:05:36.600 --> 0:05:39.200 isn't well known. I saw details in the distance that 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:42.719 I could not normally see. After the peak experience had passed, 0:05:42.960 --> 0:05:46.560 my major state was one of deep relaxation. I felt 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:49.360 that I could talk about deep or personal subjects with 0:05:49.400 --> 0:05:52.719 special clarity, and I experienced some of the feeling one 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:56.440 has after a second martini, that one is discoursing brilliantly 0:05:56.640 --> 0:06:00.600 and with a particularly acute analytical power. So that's that's 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:04.280 his first the key he synthesized it, and as we'll 0:06:04.279 --> 0:06:07.640 get into later, he basically always started with with small doses. 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:10.440 He I think he starts sometimes with quite a bit 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:12.760 smaller than a hundred milligrams, but at the hundred milligram 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:17.000 this is where he started to really experience this mental clarity. Yeah, 0:06:17.240 --> 0:06:19.680 the one certainly gets a sense if you've ever heard 0:06:20.320 --> 0:06:23.159 like an album review where an individual was maybe chewing 0:06:23.200 --> 0:06:25.359 a little more than they did off, as if maybe 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:28.760 the there's less substance to really focus on and he's 0:06:28.800 --> 0:06:31.680 having to really reach to find it. Um you get 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:34.400 a sense of that at the hundred milligram level. Something 0:06:34.400 --> 0:06:37.080 that's worth keeping in mind about these descriptions too, is 0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:40.520 that Peakal was written in the nineties, a good twenty 0:06:40.600 --> 0:06:43.000 years after he took so I'm sure he took his 0:06:43.120 --> 0:06:46.159 journal entries and kind of spiced him up a little bit, 0:06:46.160 --> 0:06:48.760 you know, out of a little poetry, all right. So 0:06:49.800 --> 0:06:52.840 the next entry is from when he tried in d 0:06:52.960 --> 0:06:55.480 m A at the hundred and twenty milligram level, and 0:06:55.680 --> 0:06:59.159 you'll see a bit of a difference here. Quote. I 0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:03.320 feel absolute clean inside, and there is nothing but pure euphoria. 0:07:03.720 --> 0:07:06.480 I have never felt so great or believed this to 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:11.440 be possible. The cleanliness, clarity, and marvelous feeling of solid 0:07:11.480 --> 0:07:14.720 inner strength continued throughout the rest of the day and 0:07:14.880 --> 0:07:18.720 evening and through the next day. I am overcome by 0:07:18.760 --> 0:07:22.560 the profundity of the experience and how much more powerful 0:07:22.600 --> 0:07:26.280 it was than previous experiences. For no apparent reason other 0:07:26.560 --> 0:07:30.280 than a continually improving state of being. All the next 0:07:30.360 --> 0:07:33.680 day I felt like a citizen of the universe rather 0:07:33.720 --> 0:07:37.360 than a citizen of the planet, completely disconnecting time and 0:07:37.400 --> 0:07:41.560 flowing easily from one activity to the next. And again 0:07:41.680 --> 0:07:44.920 these are from Alexander Shulgan's book Peak Hall, which is 0:07:45.120 --> 0:07:48.440 uh subtitled a chemical love Story. We're we're gonna talk 0:07:48.480 --> 0:07:50.200 more about Shulgan later because he on his own is 0:07:50.240 --> 0:07:53.240 just totally fascinating. But there's another quote that that you 0:07:53.320 --> 0:07:55.240 put in here that's from that book, which is M 0:07:55.320 --> 0:07:57.280 D m A. It was beginning to be a parent 0:07:57.440 --> 0:08:00.400 could be all things to all people. It's kind of 0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:05.440 interesting because, uh, it hasn't now or until until recently 0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:07.080 with what you know what we're gonna be talking about 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:10.640 towards the end of these two episodes about the I 0:08:10.680 --> 0:08:15.000 guess medical applications, medical and therapeutic applications, but it is 0:08:15.520 --> 0:08:17.480 it is all things, you know what. I'll take it back, 0:08:17.520 --> 0:08:19.800 it's all things to all people in that like everybody 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:21.760 kind of brings their own thing to it. Yeah, and 0:08:21.800 --> 0:08:24.360 that's part of the problem as well discussed. That's one 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:28.880 of the reasons that that legitimate exploration of M D 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:32.120 m A fell out of favor because it became this 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:38.040 counterculture thing it became this recreational farm, pharmacological vehicle. And 0:08:38.040 --> 0:08:39.959 I actually have one quick quote that I want to 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:43.880 read just to drive home kind of the the other 0:08:44.000 --> 0:08:46.640 end of the pool, and this is from a UK 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:52.600 disco DJ, DJ Harvey Born DJ Born Harvey Bassett. He says, quote, 0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:55.079 you can't understand the Blues until you've had your heartbroken, 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:57.640 and you can't understand my music until you've had group 0:08:57.679 --> 0:09:02.080 sex on ecstasy on. So that that's the kind of 0:09:02.120 --> 0:09:05.839 quote where it instantly makes you think, Okay, maybe I'm 0:09:05.880 --> 0:09:07.719 a less into this idea of m d m A. 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:11.720 Is this this pure window into ourself? Um? It helps 0:09:11.760 --> 0:09:14.720 perpetuate a sort of mythology about it. Yeah, and we 0:09:14.960 --> 0:09:17.120 and we should talk a little about about the mythology 0:09:17.160 --> 0:09:21.079 because I'm thinking we largely have three types of individuals 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:23.800 out there. They're the individuals who have some level of 0:09:23.840 --> 0:09:27.600 experience with m d m A, with ecstasy, molly adam, 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:30.360 whatever you want to call it. And then and then 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:33.160 their individuals who maybe have never heard of this before. 0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:34.960 But I think for the most part, you're gonna have 0:09:35.000 --> 0:09:37.840 that group who have encountered it time and time again 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:41.720 in movies and on TV shows. So many TV shows. 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:43.760 It's become a standard trope. It's like giving birth to 0:09:43.760 --> 0:09:46.120 a baby in an elevator. Yeah, it really did. I 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:49.480 think probably the nineties was one that took off the most, 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:53.400 um Robert. Robert posted to the again another reason why 0:09:53.400 --> 0:09:55.559 you should follow us on social media. We occasionally throw 0:09:55.600 --> 0:09:58.560 out questions the audience for these episodes. Robert asked our 0:09:58.600 --> 0:10:02.840 audience yesterday for examples of these from TV and my wife, 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:04.679 of all people, it was one of the people who 0:10:04.760 --> 0:10:08.680 posted this example from Beverly Hills nine O two and oh, okay, 0:10:08.760 --> 0:10:12.800 yeah the when Uh was his name Brandon? Was he 0:10:12.880 --> 0:10:14.439 the main character on I O two and No? I 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:19.840 can't remember the Uh yeah, so that's the same by 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:23.000 the Bell Show. Okay, yeah, I get this, Uh yeah, no, 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:24.679 no two and no. He dated this girl for a 0:10:24.720 --> 0:10:27.160 little while. He was like kind of a bad girl, 0:10:27.240 --> 0:10:29.920 wore a leather jacket and had bleached hair and like, 0:10:30.320 --> 0:10:32.360 of course, like she wanted to do M D M A. 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:35.800 And so there's a whole episode about about his experience 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:39.320 with that and and that, you know, you know, Frankly, 0:10:39.640 --> 0:10:42.520 I think a lot of these TV examples perpetuate one 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:45.640 of one side or the other of these stereotypes that 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:47.640 we've been talking about. Yeah, it's either like the crazy 0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:52.720 rave person. Instantly think of the the episode of Space, 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:55.959 the classic British show, we had the raver character. I 0:10:55.960 --> 0:10:59.120 think he was like a bike career. It's his name's Tires. 0:10:59.440 --> 0:11:01.600 Rewatched the episode last night because it's one of my 0:11:01.600 --> 0:11:04.520 favorite episodes of Space, and when we all day doing 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:06.520 the research for this, I just had Tires in my 0:11:06.600 --> 0:11:10.439 head and scene with Nick Frost all in like army 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:13.120 gear at a rave doing ecstasy and kind of like 0:11:13.160 --> 0:11:15.920 put pointing fake guns at the audience and shooting at them. 0:11:15.960 --> 0:11:17.760 And then he like puts a fake gun in his 0:11:17.840 --> 0:11:22.079 mouth and everybody's collapping. It's so ridiculous. But yeah, that's 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:24.920 the other side, which is the like this is so amazing. 0:11:25.000 --> 0:11:27.240 It makes you feel so great. And even at the 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:30.200 very end, Tires the bike career like he leaves and 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:33.920 the voiceover says, my job is done here or my 0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:36.160 work is done here. So you have that, and then 0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:38.679 you have sort of the comic oops, I took ecstasy 0:11:39.400 --> 0:11:44.319 kind of trope. And then uh, an increasingly dominant trope 0:11:44.360 --> 0:11:46.120 that that I see in a lot of series these 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:49.920 days is um is one of more of a shamanistic 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:54.720 ecstasy experience where the characters are are learning something about themselves. 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:58.240 I think there's an episode of six ft Under that 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:00.840 that dealt with this, especially where think, I remember this 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:03.920 is David who takes it right, and maybe more than 0:12:03.960 --> 0:12:06.600 one character because I think the mother, Oh yeah, she 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:08.679 accidentally takes it too. Yeah, it's been a while and 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:12.280 she ends up having this profound experience and this, you know, 0:12:12.320 --> 0:12:15.200 experiences this openness with the world, which which I think 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:18.439 ties in rather nicely with some of the the objective 0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:20.800 material that we're going to look at here. Yeah, yeah, 0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:23.600 but but yeah, there's a we have a small list. 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:28.040 This is not everything. I'm sure there's far more than this. Yeah, yeah, 0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:31.480 but but here just a few. We've seen ecstasy M 0:12:31.559 --> 0:12:35.640 d M A play in two episodes of Transparent. Excellent show. Yeah, 0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:42.319 the Carrie Diaries. Like it's like Sex in the City prequel, right, 0:12:42.320 --> 0:12:45.160 she's in high school. I think, how to make it 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:50.800 in America, Orphan Black Skins, it's always stunning in Philadelphia 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:54.040 peep show. Um, you're a big fan. I still haven't 0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:57.280 seen people you've recommended it to me? Yes, yeah, yeah, 0:12:57.320 --> 0:13:01.320 there's I can't remember precisely what happened, but I know 0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:03.520 I do remember what happened, and I can't mention it here. 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:10.720 But so there's Peep Show, Workaholics, Californication Party down the 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:13.480 episode it is, I like that one each founding down 0:13:14.400 --> 0:13:18.679 um looking and uh yeah, just so many more. Yeah, 0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:21.720 And it's funny. A lot of those examples are kind 0:13:21.760 --> 0:13:26.000 of more recent actually, And and I gravitate to that 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:27.960 nine O two on O example because that's what I 0:13:28.040 --> 0:13:31.760 remember in the nineties, the like kind of like after 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:35.600 school special plot that's like, alright, somebody's gonna get you 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:37.120 to try to take this and they're gonna tell you 0:13:37.160 --> 0:13:40.680 that it's gonna feel so good, but watch what really happens, 0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:42.719 you know, Like before we came into the studio, I 0:13:42.800 --> 0:13:46.080 was talking to Joe about this, and Joe says to me, Oh, 0:13:46.120 --> 0:13:48.560 are you guys gonna talk about the myth that it 0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:50.640 puts holes in your brain? And I was like, I've 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:53.240 never even heard of that, And and sure enough, like 0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:55.720 Joe had heard this whole myth growing up that you know, 0:13:55.800 --> 0:13:59.640 you take ecstasy and it's literally two through your brain matter. 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:01.920 So which, as far as I can tell from the 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:04.679 research is not true. Right. It's interesting though that in 0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:08.400 just looking at the the television portrayals we see this, uh, 0:14:08.559 --> 0:14:12.080 this change from the the anti drug messaging. It's just 0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:14.480 this is something evil and awful, stay away from it 0:14:14.600 --> 0:14:16.720 to where it is portrayed as more of a like 0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:19.120 a rite of passage, as this really more of a 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:22.360 shamanistic experience. Even if the character is engaging in the 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:27.840 shamanistic experience, are not prepared, uh for the experience. Yeah, 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:30.400 I guess like what I would like to see and 0:14:30.520 --> 0:14:33.560 move more towards and from reading the research on this, definitely, 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:35.960 like the scholars who are studying this seemed to be 0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:40.920 in this area is understanding the chemical and the chemistry 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:44.280 and how it interacts with human biology, as if like 0:14:44.360 --> 0:14:47.760 the brain is like a machine run on chemicals, which 0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:50.640 it is, you know, and how those are how those 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:54.080 kind of work together. Right. That seems like a much 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:57.360 more mature approach to this to me than than one 0:14:57.360 --> 0:14:59.800 side or the other. And and uh and hopefully we 0:14:59.800 --> 0:15:01.920 can kind of you know, bring that here. But also 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:04.920 obviously we're gonna dip our toes into into the pop 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:08.320 culture examples because that's what we're all familiar with. All right. Well, 0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:10.400 on that note, let's let's go ahead and dive in 0:15:10.600 --> 0:15:13.200 when we're talking about m d M A and ecstasy. 0:15:13.240 --> 0:15:17.000 First of all, ecstasy. Ecstasy is of course the street variant, right, 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:21.280 this is the pill version, and generally speaking there's M 0:15:21.360 --> 0:15:24.120 d m A in there, but there are probably other 0:15:24.200 --> 0:15:27.000 properties in there as well. Yeah, I mean, let's admit it, like, 0:15:27.000 --> 0:15:30.120 who knows who's making this stuff unless you're making it yourself. Yeah, 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:33.119 it's coming from a lab and another continent. Yeah, it's 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:35.160 it's kind of an unknown quantity. One thing that was 0:15:35.240 --> 0:15:37.000 interesting that I saw in the research though, is that 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:39.800 m d m A, among many street drugs, is known 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:43.360 for its purity, uh, and that it wasn't until I believe, 0:15:43.440 --> 0:15:46.640 like the late nineties or no, mid nineties that uh, 0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:49.640 the purity was in question. When they would test it, 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:54.040 it was, you know, significantly lower than but since the 0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:56.480 mid two thousand's when they've been testing it, it's always been. 0:15:57.840 --> 0:16:00.920 So I don't want to perpetuate like this fear that like, oh, yes, 0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:03.280 somebody cut like PCP into your m d M A 0:16:03.360 --> 0:16:05.200 or what who knows whatever? You know, all right, so 0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:08.880 let's talk about it. M D N A the The 0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:13.200 substance itself, m d m A stands for methylene dioxy 0:16:13.480 --> 0:16:18.120 meth amphetamine, and it's a synthetic psychoactive drug. It's chemically 0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:23.160 similar to the stimulant and meth ampthetamine and the hallucinogen mescaline. 0:16:23.600 --> 0:16:28.440 It produces feelings of increased energy, euphoria, emotional warmth, distortions, 0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:33.800 and time perception tactile experiences. Interestingly enough, you don't see 0:16:33.920 --> 0:16:40.720 these um these experiences described generally as as states of ecstasy. 0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:42.480 Like it's really kind of a misnomer to even call 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:46.520 it that. It's more euphoric, it's more openness. It's more 0:16:46.560 --> 0:16:51.040 like the self becomes permeable and uh, you're allowed to 0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:53.760 interact with the world a little more. That's another myth 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:56.360 that I think is perpetuated by TV and movies a 0:16:56.400 --> 0:16:58.960 little bit too about it, right, is that like everybody 0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:01.360 just wants to have sex the minute to take M 0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:03.840 d m A because it's ecstasy, right, And that's not 0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:08.160 necessarily the case. There was another TV example which I've 0:17:08.160 --> 0:17:11.080 mentioned this show several times on on on our show 0:17:11.520 --> 0:17:15.119 Uh Millennium than the ninety nineties show starring Lance Hendrickson. 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:18.439 The very first episode of that show, I believe, or 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:20.800 maybe it was like the third or fourth featured a 0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:23.520 couple who took M D M A and they were 0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:25.280 just so out of it and so in love with 0:17:25.320 --> 0:17:27.200 each other that a serial killer was able to capture 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:30.240 them and kill them both. It was just ridiculous. But 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:34.520 so anyways, it's important to remember that this drug, basically, 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:36.960 it's a central nervous system stimulant right when you get 0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:40.280 down to it, and UH, it is particularly connected to 0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:44.120 the serotonin transporters in our brain. We're gonna drill down 0:17:44.160 --> 0:17:47.159 and look at that further later. Let's let's continue on 0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:49.800 with the basics. Yeah, it's so as I've said, it's 0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:53.120 a it's a unique combination of both stimulant and UH 0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:58.520 and a psychato mimetic substance. So some people actually tend 0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:03.400 to classify it as enactogen or an empathogen, all due 0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:07.160 to its power to induce emotional communion again, the sense 0:18:07.200 --> 0:18:11.040 of oneness, UH, emotional openness in the form of empathy 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:16.879 and sympathy. Yeah, so it's pretty popular, and we know 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:19.199 this because not just for from it showing up on 0:18:19.240 --> 0:18:22.920 TV and movies, but actually population surveys show that it's 0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:26.320 the third most widely used illegal drug in the world, 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:29.520 after cannabis and cocaine, which surprised me. I guess I, 0:18:30.119 --> 0:18:32.000 I guess I was surprised that cocaine was so much 0:18:32.040 --> 0:18:36.480 higher too. But um uh, I mean the the various 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:39.680 effects that we've discussed, I mean, without getting into any 0:18:39.720 --> 0:18:42.280 of the legal side of it, or the or the 0:18:42.440 --> 0:18:44.879 ramifications like who wouldn't want to feel that way? If 0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:48.119 someone said, hey, let me just ask you one quick question, 0:18:48.320 --> 0:18:50.080 would you like to feel like this? And you would 0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:52.920 say yes, I'd like to hear some more information about 0:18:52.920 --> 0:18:57.440 what you're proposed. Yeah, exactly, Like it's like, uh, somebody 0:18:57.440 --> 0:19:00.280 handing up pamphlets at the trade station. Yeah, yeah, no, 0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:03.280 I agree. I was talking with a friend last night 0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:07.159 actually who experienced using M d m A in the seventies, 0:19:07.160 --> 0:19:10.320 actually around the same time the children was first experimenting 0:19:10.359 --> 0:19:12.359 with it, and uh, and that was kind of the 0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:14.880 conclusion that you know, he came to is that you know, well, 0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:18.879 people would say, you know, people even before there was 0:19:18.920 --> 0:19:23.280 a usage of it for psychoanalysts and therapy applications, they 0:19:23.280 --> 0:19:25.040 would say, well, do you want to feel good? You know, 0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:28.200 and and and lots of people out there. Don't want 0:19:28.200 --> 0:19:30.040 to feel sad, don't want to be angry, don't want 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:32.439 to be lonely. Sure, I want to feel good. But 0:19:32.480 --> 0:19:35.680 as we'll get to this isn't a particularly addictive drug either. 0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:38.000 So it's not like cocaine in the sense where it's 0:19:38.000 --> 0:19:39.600 like you're gonna feel good and then you're gonna have 0:19:39.720 --> 0:19:43.280 to feed in that monkey, right, you know. Um, it's 0:19:43.320 --> 0:19:45.000 like this is more of a situation where you're gonna 0:19:45.000 --> 0:19:46.720 feel really good and then you're probably gonna want to 0:19:46.720 --> 0:19:50.240 take it again and uh a month or two, Yeah, 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:54.840 yeah exactly, maybe never depending you know. It's um, yeah, well, 0:19:54.640 --> 0:19:56.680 we'll get into those properties. And in fact, to give 0:19:56.720 --> 0:19:58.600 you a sort of a you know, a broad look 0:19:58.600 --> 0:20:01.480 at how many people have potential, they done it. European 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:05.080 Monitoring the the European Monitoring Center for Drugs and Drug 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:08.959 Addiction surveyed all of Europe for how much they had 0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:10.840 used m d m A, how much the population used 0:20:10.960 --> 0:20:13.439 m d A m d M A, and they found 0:20:13.480 --> 0:20:16.400 that people between the ages of sixteen and sixty five, 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:19.520 eight point six percent of them acknowledged that they had 0:20:19.640 --> 0:20:23.160 used it, but like you said, the majority only used 0:20:23.160 --> 0:20:27.080 it a few times. Regular uses very rare. It's very 0:20:27.160 --> 0:20:29.679 rare that somebody is taking ecstasy all the time. The 0:20:29.760 --> 0:20:32.680 vast majority of individuals seem to have taken it ten 0:20:32.720 --> 0:20:35.400 times or less. Yea, yeah, exactly, that was the average. 0:20:35.720 --> 0:20:37.760 All right, So let's get into the origin story. This 0:20:38.119 --> 0:20:40.959 M d M A is a synthetic substance. It does 0:20:41.040 --> 0:20:43.760 not occur in nature. So you can't go pick m 0:20:43.800 --> 0:20:46.520 d m A in a field of flowers, right. A 0:20:46.600 --> 0:20:48.879 shaman watering in the woods did not discover m d 0:20:49.000 --> 0:20:52.120 m A m the monk of picking mushrooms, and then 0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:53.840 the hills didn't discover m d m A. M d 0:20:53.960 --> 0:20:57.000 M A was created in a laboratory, in a very 0:20:57.040 --> 0:21:01.879 interesting laboratory situation. Actually, yeah, so the origins of m 0:21:01.960 --> 0:21:04.840 d m A only go back to around nineteen twelve, 0:21:05.280 --> 0:21:08.119 and specifically you have to go to Uh to the 0:21:08.200 --> 0:21:12.200