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Speaker 1: Hi guys, Nancy Grace here, welcome back to Killers amongst

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Speaker 1: us the production of iHeart Media and Crime Online. We

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Speaker 1: were talking about the disappearance of a beautiful young woman,

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Speaker 1: Don Vin's with her world and in front of her.

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Speaker 1: They had just starting She and her husband, David a

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Speaker 1: hot new restaurant. It was the place to be. There's

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Speaker 1: one in every town that that's the place everybody seems

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Speaker 1: to want to go. Of course, the first place you

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Speaker 1: start with any missing person investigation is talking to the spouse.

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Speaker 1: We now know that the husband is saying she took

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Speaker 1: off for a rehab, but then he also said he

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Speaker 1: expected her to come back after ski season. And you

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Speaker 1: see Don Vin's husband, daughter and his what new girlfriend

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Speaker 1: throwing her stuff away. Well, of course it aroused suspicion

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Speaker 1: when her clothing and some of her possessions were thrown

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Speaker 1: in a dumpster. Investigators start this electronic surveillance on David

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Speaker 1: Vin's Don's husband, including GPS trackers, wire taps. They even

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Speaker 1: go undercover into the restaurant to eat to get a

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Speaker 1: sense of what's going on. But then they fly out

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Speaker 1: to see his daughter, Jackie. She had moved back to

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Speaker 1: South Carolina, David Vinn's own blood daughter, stating, oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: that Pixie text Daddy told me to do that. The

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Speaker 1: cops know something is horribly wrong. I'm Nancy Grace. Thanks

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Speaker 1: for being with us, Killers amongst Us again, I'm Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 1: This as Killers amongst us. Thanks for being with us.

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Speaker 1: What panel joining together today in the case of missing

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Speaker 1: Dawn Then's first of all crack reporter Larry Altman, crime

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Speaker 1: reporter for Daily Breeze at the time Dawn goes missing.

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Speaker 1: Now freelance journalist, death investigator, professor forensics Jacksonville State University,

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Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon Now, the

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Speaker 1: star of a hit series Poisonous Liaisons on the True

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Speaker 1: Crime Network. Former police chief John's Creek Chris Buyers twenty

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Speaker 1: five years on the force, now private investigator, polygrapher at

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Speaker 1: Chris Buyers Investigations and polygraph dot Com psychologist, junct professor

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Speaker 1: Columbia University. Doctor Debbie Joffe Ellis, renowned defense attorney, former prosecutor.

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Speaker 1: Joining me today out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, Darreld Cohen

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Speaker 1: and special guests, the brothers and sister of Dawn Van's

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Speaker 1: Derek David and Dana to everyone, thank you for being

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Speaker 1: with us. Take a listen to this our friends at CBS.

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Speaker 1: He just kept saying I'm sorry, I'm sorry, and I

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Speaker 1: kept saying, you know, how, how could you let something

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Speaker 1: like this happen? And I was just like, I can't

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Speaker 1: believe you light to me. So I didn't hear that

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Speaker 1: morning monitoring traffic, it seemed like the cop was right here.

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Speaker 1: I started, you know, like flagging him down. We were

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Speaker 1: just we were hauling. H immediately pulled out behind them.

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Speaker 1: He was going quite fast and had no intention of stopping.

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Speaker 1: I remember coming up on this curve. That's where I said,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to die. So you're hearing the girlfriend

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Speaker 1: speaking and it's Kathy Galvin and she's telling Van's her lover.

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Speaker 1: If you there's something to tell me. After a detective

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Speaker 1: shows up at the front door, you better tell me now,

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Speaker 1: and fight or flight kicks in and they take off

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Speaker 1: in the car. He's driving so erratically. She says, I

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Speaker 1: don't want to die, screams it out. Listen. As we

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Speaker 1: approached point percente, he made an abrupt left turn into

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Speaker 1: the parking lot. He pulled right up to like right here,

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Speaker 1: he put it in park real quick, and he's struggling

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Speaker 1: to get it and I'm trying to get mine off,

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Speaker 1: and eventually I grabbed onto him like this, holding onto

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Speaker 1: I grabbed onto his pants. He's running towards the cliff's edge.

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Speaker 1: She's grabbing onto him. He's trying to push her away.

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Speaker 1: I'm running after him, and he's taking his clothes off.

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Speaker 1: He proceeded to this railing and began to climb over,

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Speaker 1: so we both jumped over. I'm holding onto his hands

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, please, please, don't do this, And I

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Speaker 1: looked over at the cops. Stop. Okay, So back to you.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Debbie Joffe ellis psychologist. So the detective shows up

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Speaker 1: at his door. He opens the door out it's a detective.

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Speaker 1: His face drains white. Then he jumps in the car,

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Speaker 1: takes off at a high rati speed, nearly crashes with

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Speaker 1: his girlfriend in the car, then jumps out of the

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Speaker 1: car and makes like he's going to jump to his death.

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Speaker 1: I think we've got the let's say a little more

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Speaker 1: muscle on your rat theory. No. I said that it

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Speaker 1: indicates that there's some at the very least discomfort within

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Speaker 1: the person. But one needs more evidence before one can

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Speaker 1: guess or assume or be sure of the exact cause.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to the perfect murder. Steven gets out

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Speaker 1: of the car, runs towards the cliff, climbs the fence

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Speaker 1: and jumps. I've gone there before and have people jump

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Speaker 1: over the cliff. Usually it's it's fatal. I was like,

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Speaker 1: he's guilty. Why would he try to kill himself unless

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Speaker 1: he was guilty. When paramedics finally reached David, they're shocked

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Speaker 1: by what they find. Amazingly, David survives his eighty foot

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Speaker 1: plunge because he lands on his legs. His legs, though,

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Speaker 1: are completely shattered. You had a shreddered pelvis. He was

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Speaker 1: bleeding internally. David is rushed into surgery, though doctors are

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Speaker 1: doubtful he'll survive. Straight out to Crack reporter Larry Outman,

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Speaker 1: the crime reporter for Daily Breeze at the time Don

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Speaker 1: goes missing. Now freelancer journalist Larry Allman, I'm just so

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Speaker 1: glad you are with us here today on killers amongst us.

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Speaker 1: I mean, let's get real, why would he jump off

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Speaker 1: a cliff if he did not have a guilty conscience? Right?

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Speaker 1: And of course that morning is when the article comes

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Speaker 1: out at the top of the front page that says

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Speaker 1: he's a person of interest, and that's what happened. He

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Speaker 1: immediately headed down to that cliff and jump. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's amazing to me, you know, chief Buyers, I've seen it.

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Speaker 1: I can't say a million, but well well over one

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Speaker 1: hundred times where when a defendant is caught and they're

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Speaker 1: up against them all they're the chief suspect, they pull

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Speaker 1: a stunt like this, the cowardly way out. Absolutely, I've

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Speaker 1: seen it time and time again over twenty five years

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Speaker 1: of you know, once they're back into a corner, like

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Speaker 1: you called him a rat earlier, when a rat gets trapped,

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Speaker 1: it'll it'll do anything, um and he had this guilty

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Speaker 1: conscience and with what he did, as we say, in

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Speaker 1: the local law enforcement community, even the FBI would call

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Speaker 1: that a clue. Okay, I hope you're listening to that, doctor,

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Speaker 1: Debbie jeff Ellis. Even the FBI and they're they're they're

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Speaker 1: a tough crowd, would call that a clue. But it

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Speaker 1: ain't over yet. The cheating husband, David Vin's jumps off

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Speaker 1: a cliff send just crying. She seemed to be really

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Speaker 1: upset with David for jumping. I wasn't really sure what

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Speaker 1: she knew and when or when she may have found out.

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Speaker 1: After several hours, coups received notice that David survived surgery

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Speaker 1: and just now in an induced coma. Against the odds.

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Speaker 1: Detectives get word that David is awake just three days later.

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Speaker 1: You want to tell us about her? She wouldn't shut up.

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Speaker 1: What happened? Suffocated? Suffocated? Up? What'd you do with the body?

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Speaker 1: We need the body? Sergeant Garcia asked David Vinns, why

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Speaker 1: didn't he just chop up the body? And David looked

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Speaker 1: at him and said, I'm a chef, not a butcher.

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Speaker 1: After several hours, coups received notice that David survived surgery

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Speaker 1: and just now in an induced tacoma. Against the odds.

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Speaker 1: Detectives get word that David is awake. Just three days later.

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Speaker 1: You want to tell us about her. She wouldn't shut up.

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Speaker 1: What happened? Suffocated? You suffocated? What did you do with

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Speaker 1: the body? We need the body? Certainly got to see you,

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Speaker 1: asked David vins why didn't he just chop up the body?

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Speaker 1: And David looked at him and said, I'm a chef,

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Speaker 1: not a butcher. That's what he had to say when

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Speaker 1: confronted about them murder of thirty nine year old Dawn Vans.

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Speaker 1: I'm a chef, not a butcher. That was from the

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Speaker 1: Perfect Murder straight out to Dana Pappen, Dawn's sister, When

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Speaker 1: did you learn about the horrific nature of David Bean's

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Speaker 1: murder plot on your sister? The detectives actually went to

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Speaker 1: Florida and met with my father, my brother. They wanted

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Speaker 1: to tell them in person, and I was able to

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Speaker 1: listen in horrifying is an understatement? How do you hard

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Speaker 1: to wrap your head around evil like that? To David Pappen,

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Speaker 1: this is Dawn's brother who was there in Florida. Do

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Speaker 1: you remember that moment that Dana's describing. M Yeah, very clearly.

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Speaker 1: What I remember is, you know, the detectives did come

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Speaker 1: out to Florida and talk to us about the newspaper

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Speaker 1: article Larry was going to write. And then Dana called

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Speaker 1: me that morning and I was at work and she said,

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Speaker 1: did you read the article? And I got home and

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Speaker 1: I breathe dot com and the article that said the

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Speaker 1: police found blood was not front and center. The fact

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Speaker 1: that he jumped off this cliff was obviously friend center.

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Speaker 1: So then I called Bana and she was like, well,

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Speaker 1: what are you talking about? And I'm like, you need

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Speaker 1: to go online and look. So um, that is pretty

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Speaker 1: vivid in my memory. And then as things unfolded, you know,

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Speaker 1: it was horrifying to think that, you know, he would

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Speaker 1: tie her up, put her in the bathtub, gagged and

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Speaker 1: you know, restrained to a chair. You know, he says

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Speaker 1: she was drunk and being loud, but you know, to

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Speaker 1: hear that, just that part was horrifying. And then you know,

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Speaker 1: to to do what he did next with her body

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Speaker 1: was you know, unbelievable, no words, and that's something jump in. Um.

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Speaker 1: I have a hard time believing that that's what he

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Speaker 1: actually did. I from what I know about him, it's

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Speaker 1: it's it's I don't know. I just don't really believe

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Speaker 1: that he could possibly have done it. But that's just

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Speaker 1: me and I wonder if we'll ever really find out,

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Speaker 1: you know, let's explore that. But to Derek Pappen, Dawn's

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Speaker 1: brother joining us out of Vermont, Derek, do you recall

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Speaker 1: when you finally learned what exactly had happened to your

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Speaker 1: sister Dawn. I knew Dana had texted me to you know,

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Speaker 1: check out the internet, so Daily Breeze dot Com and

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Speaker 1: all that stuff from you know, I just knew right

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Speaker 1: away that it was obviously bad and all that and

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Speaker 1: listening to everything that's gone on today just speaks volume

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Speaker 1: of his character and his attributes that he he was

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Speaker 1: always that, you know, big figure that you wanted to

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Speaker 1: look up to and and you know, almost emulate. But

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Speaker 1: then you know when when things come big, crashing down,

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Speaker 1: and he was just a big monkey, coward and you

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Speaker 1: would never want to look up to that. Take a

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Speaker 1: listen to what we learned from Richard Slashinger at CBS.

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Speaker 1: I went ahead and put her into this antique steamer

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Speaker 1: trunk and it took some great heavy duty garbage liners

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Speaker 1: that I had in the closet. I put one over her,

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Speaker 1: I put the bag over her, and I put it down,

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Speaker 1: one another bag and then another bag for three bags

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Speaker 1: back into the trunk. I knew I had to go

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Speaker 1: to work, you know, I ask people they're working, So

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Speaker 1: I put the trunk in the back oat of my vehicle.

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Speaker 1: I drove to work and I went and I put

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Speaker 1: my head down to started working in twelve forty five,

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Speaker 1: the garbage trunk came on and I saw him to enter.

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Speaker 1: When I said closer, I went out to sea with

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Speaker 1: the toyota. I opened the bag. I took the trunk

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Speaker 1: anmount of the vehicle. No one was out there. Fortunately,

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Speaker 1: I picked the three backs up. I put him a dumpster,

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Speaker 1: picked up a bunch of cardboard that was on the

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Speaker 1: side of the dumpster, and I threw him on top

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Speaker 1: of the dumpster, on top of her body. And I

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Speaker 1: went back in there and washed my hands and just

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Speaker 1: saw it to myself, You're going to hell, David. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's the first true thing he said. If there was

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Speaker 1: any doubt about David Vin's murdering his young wife Dawn,

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Speaker 1: there he is. He's speaking. That's his voice describing what

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Speaker 1: he did. Take a listen to our friends at the

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Speaker 1: perfect murder, boiling his wife in a pot as the

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Speaker 1: body would be, but heats up, begins to fall apart.

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Speaker 1: Over the days he was able to dispose of the body,

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Speaker 1: the fat would go into his restaurants, grease traps step

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Speaker 1: all night long. The next night he'd come back after

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Speaker 1: closing and bring her back out and start the whole

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Speaker 1: process again. Until she was completely gone. He cooked her

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Speaker 1: at the restaurant. Was he feeding her to get rid

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Speaker 1: of the body to his customers? That was a big

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Speaker 1: issue with me. I had no idea if he did

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Speaker 1: or not in my thirty four years of law enforcement.

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Speaker 1: What separates this case from any other is the manner

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Speaker 1: of which he disposed the body. He took the woman

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Speaker 1: he was married to for fourteen years, the woman he

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Speaker 1: promised to love, honor and cherish, and treated her literally

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Speaker 1: like a piece of meat, you know. To Larry Altman,

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Speaker 1: crime reporter Daily Breeze at the time that Dawn was murdered,

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Speaker 1: currently freelance journalist. Apparently some people still do not believe

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Speaker 1: that the husband, David Vance, a chef, actually revealed how

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Speaker 1: he slowly looked his beautiful young wife for four days

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Speaker 1: then hit her skull at his mother's house after he

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Speaker 1: killed her in a rage fit. I mean, the cadaver

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Speaker 1: dogs were brought there and they hit, and they made

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Speaker 1: a hit because the grease from her body was poured

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Speaker 1: down a grate in the floor. That's why the dogs

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Speaker 1: made a cadaver hit. Remember one other thing. At the

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Speaker 1: very beginning of this mystery, Dawn's friend goes to the

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Speaker 1: restaurant to confront David to ask where is Dawn And

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Speaker 1: she finds David sweaty, agitated. It's in the morning, and

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Speaker 1: he's got a bandage on his arm. To me, that

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Speaker 1: means that he burned himself in this process, and that's

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Speaker 1: what was going on at the time. Larry Altman, freelance journalist.

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Speaker 1: What do you think is the most powerful evidence that

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Speaker 1: not only did he murder Dawn, but that he disposed

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Speaker 1: of her body by slow cooking her for days on end. Well,

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Speaker 1: I also wonder about the blood. And even though the

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Speaker 1: blood wasn't able to be used in court, I still

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Speaker 1: want to know what that blood was about. And I

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Speaker 1: this is just speculation. This is what I believe. I

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Speaker 1: believe that, and I apologize to the families were saying this,

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Speaker 1: but I believe that he dismembered her at home and

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Speaker 1: that's why there's blood, or he killed her in some

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Speaker 1: other manner than he said that. It wasn't that he

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Speaker 1: tied her up, that he killed her in some other way.

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Speaker 1: And I also, you know, wonder how did he transport

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Speaker 1: her body to the restaurant to do this? And I

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Speaker 1: always come back to the Louis Vitant Bay, and the

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Speaker 1: whole thing is just horrific. In his interview with police,

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Speaker 1: he stated he stuffed Don's body and a fifty five

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Speaker 1: gallons drum of boiling water, keeping it submerged with weights

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Speaker 1: and mixing what remained with other waste before he disposed

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Speaker 1: of it. He said the only thing left at the

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Speaker 1: end was her skull, which he stashed at his mother's home. Now,

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Speaker 1: a search of the home turned up nothing, nor did

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Speaker 1: an excavation of his restaurant, the Time Contemporary Cafe there

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Speaker 1: in Lomita. What do you make of the recording he

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Speaker 1: gave Larry Altman? Do you think he truly boiled his

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Speaker 1: wife's body for days on end? I do. I do.

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Speaker 1: I believe he did that overnight. Now, I don't necessarily

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Speaker 1: believe it was a fifty five gallons drum. I believe

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Speaker 1: that he that was suggested to him by a detective.

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Speaker 1: That's what he used. I believe it had to be

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Speaker 1: something smaller because it would have just been too heavy

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Speaker 1: to keep lifting onto the stove. But but, and then

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Speaker 1: I also believe that I don't know where the skull is,

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Speaker 1: but I do believe one day it will be found somewhere,

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Speaker 1: maybe in the mountains. I always believed that perhaps he was.

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Speaker 1: He hid it somewhere so it would it would be

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Speaker 1: found sometimes and he could see say, well see look

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Speaker 1: she ran away and and she, you know, died in

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Speaker 1: the mountains or whatever. That's what I always believe. To

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Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen, veteran trial lawyer, you know, my inspiration said,

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Speaker 1: many a true word is spoken in jest. Did you

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Speaker 1: know that we learned that the daughter Jackie Van's stated

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Speaker 1: that her father used to joke about the best way

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Speaker 1: to dispose of a body. And her exact words, Darrel were,

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Speaker 1: he's a chef. He would joke about cooking a body,

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Speaker 1: and you can't make this stuff up when you joke

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Speaker 1: about it. And then he then later admits that that's

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Speaker 1: what he did. What it was a fifty five pound,

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Speaker 1: a five pounds, two quart, It doesn't really matter it.

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Speaker 1: It certainly seems to me that he gave a wonderful

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Speaker 1: confession an admission, and I hope that his Miranda rights

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Speaker 1: were given to him before he made that confession. Oh man,

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Speaker 1: you're not kiding about that, you know. Joseph Scott Morgan,

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Speaker 1: could you explain exactly how what he's saying now that

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Speaker 1: he did to his wife could have physically happened. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: And to go back to what Larry had said just

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Speaker 1: a moment ago. You know, after I've read over this

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Speaker 1: case now for some time, I believe with Larry that

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Speaker 1: he probably did perform a dismemberment. And let me tell

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Speaker 1: you what's really kind of chilling about this is that

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Speaker 1: the process that he used in disposing of Dawn's remains

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Speaker 1: is something that we actually use in the medical examiner

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Speaker 1: or slash coroner world when it comes to remains that

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Speaker 1: we have. They're decomposed and we're trying to get to

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Speaker 1: the bone, if you will. Forensic anthropologists use this all

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Speaker 1: the time. This is called rendering, and the idea is

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Speaker 1: it's almost like a croc pot. Do you place the

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Speaker 1: remains into this large vessel, and you apply low temperature

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Speaker 1: heat to it for a you know, for a protracted

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Speaker 1: period of time. Sometimes it can be days. And I

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Speaker 1: have no doubt that what he saw was actually taking place.

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Speaker 1: That is, say, for instance, we're talking about the rendering

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Speaker 1: down of the fat, all the other soft tissues the

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Speaker 1: body that are being poured off. However, this is what

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Speaker 1: I believe the bone itself. I think there would still

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Speaker 1: be some remnant of that. I don't know that he

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Speaker 1: could successfully render down all of the bone, particularly when

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Speaker 1: you talk about things like the pelvis along bones of

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Speaker 1: the legs, because they're very robust. It's interesting that he

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Speaker 1: mentioned the skull because the skull is rather robust too.

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Speaker 1: I think that he still had to go some distance

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Speaker 1: to get rid of the body. But what this did

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Speaker 1: do is that if we follow through with this idea

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Speaker 1: of dismemberment, he's completely gotten rid of evidence like tool marks,

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Speaker 1: for instance. And I take exception to what he said earlier,

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Speaker 1: and that is this person where he said, I'm a chef,

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Speaker 1: not a butcher. Well, the reality is this, if you

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Speaker 1: are a chef, you have butchering skills. And you know

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Speaker 1: I'm from New Orleans. Originally, I understand this because I've

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Speaker 1: been to some of the finest restaurants in the world,

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Speaker 1: have friends that are chefs. They know how to take

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Speaker 1: game and butcher that game in order to cook it. Okay,

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Speaker 1: he understands this, all right, I didn't come down with

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Speaker 1: the last drop of rain, So I think that's that's

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Speaker 1: a ridiculous comment that he made. He knows how to

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Speaker 1: do this, Nancy. He knows how to slow cook meat,

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Speaker 1: if you will, And like the reporter said, Dawn became

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Speaker 1: just merely a piece of meat to him, something to

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Speaker 1: be disposed of. And what's really chilling, Nancy, is that,

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Speaker 1: you know, I worked serial killings, with dismemberments and that

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Speaker 1: sort of thing. Those people are unattached from the individuals

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Speaker 1: that they victimized. This is his precious wife. He's doing

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Speaker 1: this probably, I think, in that kitchen because he can

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Speaker 1: sustain it, He can maintain it, and he has to

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Speaker 1: make the body manageable, which in this case I think

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Speaker 1: that he did, and he rendered her down completely over

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Speaker 1: a long, protracted period. Now, according to the daughter, twenty

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Speaker 1: two at the time, she's that her father told her

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Speaker 1: that he and Donn had been arguing and he tried

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Speaker 1: to barricade their bedroom door with a dresser, but it

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Speaker 1: didn't work, so he felt his only alternative was to

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Speaker 1: tie up his wife and tape her mouth. The next morning,

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Speaker 1: she was dead. She says. Her dad, David Vin's told

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Speaker 1: her that Down's body would never be found. Now he

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Speaker 1: told the same story to detectives. He's sticking to his

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Speaker 1: story to sister Dana pappened. Why is it that you

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Speaker 1: don't believe this is what happened? Well, Number one is

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Speaker 1: because that was an operating restaurant. There were customers in

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Speaker 1: their daily and I think that cooking a body like

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Speaker 1: that would probably have a very intense odor. It just

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Speaker 1: doesn't make sense to me. And also I don't it

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Speaker 1: just it's I can't wrap my head around him actually

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Speaker 1: doing it. I can't wrap my head around the whole thing.

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Speaker 1: So it really shouldn't surprise me that he said he

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Speaker 1: did it and probably did do it. It just doesn't

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Speaker 1: make sense to me. The case it goes to try,

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Speaker 1: I'll take a listen to KTLA five. Well. Even during

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Speaker 1: the bove entitled action find the defendant David Beans guilty

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Speaker 1: of the crime of murder in violation of pinal Coat

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Speaker 1: Section one eight seven eight, the X chef David Vienn's

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Speaker 1: was found guilty of second degree murder, guilty of killing

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Speaker 1: his wife Don Viens after cooking her body at the

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Speaker 1: couple's restaurant over a period of four days. There's no

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Speaker 1: happy ending. I don't think there's any winners or losers.

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Speaker 1: Two families have suffered tremendously and we will continue to

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Speaker 1: and will will continue to. Here's more from KTLA. It

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Speaker 1: has been a painful three year courtroom drama. Jurors heard

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Speaker 1: the gruesome details how her husband, who initially told investigators

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Speaker 1: she just left when missing, but Don was actually murdered

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Speaker 1: by her husband. To destroy any trace of it, David

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Speaker 1: cooked her body in boiling water at their LaMDA restaurant

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Speaker 1: time which has since been torn down. He has to

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Speaker 1: pay for what he did. He tried to get away

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Speaker 1: with it. In court. David today only slightly reacted to

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Speaker 1: the guilty verdict. Karen hopes David realizes how much Don

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Speaker 1: believed in him, unknowing what he was capable of. I

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Speaker 1: hope he knows that the week before he killed her,

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Speaker 1: that told thee that she loved him so much. So

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Speaker 1: at this juncture he's convicted. What now, Larry Almond, what

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Speaker 1: is the status of his case? Well, the course have

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Speaker 1: upheld his conviction, but he is due for a parole

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Speaker 1: hearing in February. Whether he's granted that, I don't know

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Speaker 1: whether the governor would let him out if he gets it.

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Speaker 1: I tend to doubt it, but he is due for

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Speaker 1: parole in February. For parole in February, We Wait as

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Speaker 1: Justice Unfalls Nancy Gray's killers amongst us signing off goodbye friends,