WEBVTT - Introducing GREATEST ESCAPES with Arturo Castro

0:00:02.400 --> 0:00:05.280
<v Speaker 1>Hey, guys, this is Greatest Escapes, a show bringing you

0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:08.600
<v Speaker 1>the wildest true escape stories of all time. Today we're

0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:11.440
<v Speaker 1>telling the story of a Soviet spy who switched sides

0:00:11.520 --> 0:00:14.360
<v Speaker 1>and its Bonker's attempt to get away from the KGB

0:00:14.800 --> 0:00:18.599
<v Speaker 1>or as I pronounced good but good. I'm retro Castro

0:00:18.680 --> 0:00:22.480
<v Speaker 1>and my guest today is actor, writer, producer, comedian, musician,

0:00:22.640 --> 0:00:25.680
<v Speaker 1>Trappeeze Artists and host of his very own podcast, Snapho.

0:00:25.920 --> 0:00:57.200
<v Speaker 1>It's Ed Helms. Welcome, Ed, Thank you so much.

0:01:00.280 --> 0:01:01.000
<v Speaker 2>Honor to be here.

0:01:01.640 --> 0:01:04.880
<v Speaker 1>Thank You're fantastic. You're fantastic. Really, it means a lot

0:01:04.880 --> 0:01:06.280
<v Speaker 1>to me that you did this. Man, I'm such a

0:01:06.280 --> 0:01:09.000
<v Speaker 1>fan of your podcast, which we'll get into in one second.

0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:14.480
<v Speaker 1>Something about myself is I find white bearded dudes harmonizing

0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:18.640
<v Speaker 1>incredibly soothing. So I love folk music, man, I'm such

0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:21.120
<v Speaker 1>a big fan of folk music. Fleet Foxes give me

0:01:21.160 --> 0:01:23.480
<v Speaker 1>that Mumford and Sons, give me all that good stuff.

0:01:23.560 --> 0:01:25.039
<v Speaker 1>And you were in a folk band, Is that right?

0:01:26.680 --> 0:01:31.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I've never heard the appeal of folk music described

0:01:31.400 --> 0:01:33.640
<v Speaker 2>quite that way. I love, but I do love that

0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:37.200
<v Speaker 2>bearded white dudes harmonizing. Come on, they just got out

0:01:37.240 --> 0:01:39.640
<v Speaker 2>of the lumber trade. It either makes your skin crawl

0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:44.040
<v Speaker 2>or it just soothes you. And I honestly go back

0:01:44.040 --> 0:01:48.680
<v Speaker 2>and forth. Sometimes dracts me nuts. But yeah, my two

0:01:48.680 --> 0:01:52.080
<v Speaker 2>buddies from college, Jacob ty Love and Ian Riggs, we

0:01:52.160 --> 0:01:56.480
<v Speaker 2>went to Oberlin College together and I had a banjo

0:01:56.640 --> 0:02:00.880
<v Speaker 2>background from Whoa High school, and we just became this trio.

0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:03.280
<v Speaker 2>Then after college, we all moved to New York City

0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:06.400
<v Speaker 2>to kind of pursue different things, but kept the music going,

0:02:06.480 --> 0:02:10.480
<v Speaker 2>and the Loansome Trio lives on to this day.

0:02:10.800 --> 0:02:13.840
<v Speaker 1>Loansome Trio. That's wonderful. And I got to tell you, you know,

0:02:14.600 --> 0:02:17.040
<v Speaker 1>it's not even a bit that I love folk music.

0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:20.160
<v Speaker 1>I've never I've never been really good at being like

0:02:20.280 --> 0:02:23.040
<v Speaker 1>kind of stereotypically Latin, like most people assume that I like,

0:02:23.520 --> 0:02:26.280
<v Speaker 1>I like salsa or like reggaetona shit, And I'm really

0:02:26.360 --> 0:02:29.760
<v Speaker 1>musically challenged, like rhythmically challenged in that sense. And I

0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:32.480
<v Speaker 1>heard Ray lomon Tyne for the first time when I

0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:34.960
<v Speaker 1>just moved to New York, and I was, you know,

0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:36.519
<v Speaker 1>I try to go to all my friends back and

0:02:36.560 --> 0:02:38.240
<v Speaker 1>want to moll and be like, you guys have to

0:02:38.280 --> 0:02:41.320
<v Speaker 1>hear this shit called folk music. It's like really sensitive,

0:02:41.440 --> 0:02:42.720
<v Speaker 1>like are you in the forest?

0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:43.080
<v Speaker 2>You know?

0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:46.079
<v Speaker 1>Yea. So trying to convince people that I'm actually into

0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:48.760
<v Speaker 1>folk music has been a lifelong journey.

0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:55.000
<v Speaker 2>It's so funny.

0:02:54.800 --> 0:02:57.840
<v Speaker 1>To set the tone for this greatest escape thing. Do

0:02:57.880 --> 0:03:00.960
<v Speaker 1>you have one that you consider to be an escape

0:03:01.000 --> 0:03:01.480
<v Speaker 1>of your own?

0:03:01.520 --> 0:03:03.720
<v Speaker 2>No? You know what, there's a funny story. It's just

0:03:03.760 --> 0:03:06.720
<v Speaker 2>sort of a silly thing that happened in college. I

0:03:06.840 --> 0:03:10.240
<v Speaker 2>was really into this band, Fishbone. Do you remember this band?

0:03:10.440 --> 0:03:11.880
<v Speaker 1>They're like kind.

0:03:11.760 --> 0:03:13.679
<v Speaker 2>Of a heavy ska band.

0:03:14.240 --> 0:03:16.320
<v Speaker 1>Back in the day, that heavy, heavy sky.

0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:20.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Well, well what's funny is that they were they

0:03:20.360 --> 0:03:25.760
<v Speaker 2>were best friends with and toured with another band called Biohazard,

0:03:26.160 --> 0:03:30.079
<v Speaker 2>which was like real metal, like you know, death metal

0:03:30.160 --> 0:03:30.720
<v Speaker 2>kind of.

0:03:31.480 --> 0:03:34.239
<v Speaker 1>Right, and a ska man and a metal band. Yeah,

0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:35.880
<v Speaker 1>they were sharp and.

0:03:35.760 --> 0:03:39.280
<v Speaker 2>They were really and they toured together a lot, and

0:03:39.680 --> 0:03:42.040
<v Speaker 2>they were very different acts. But everyone would just go

0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:45.360
<v Speaker 2>to these concerts and go bananas. And so I was

0:03:45.400 --> 0:03:48.560
<v Speaker 2>in college in Ohio and we some friends and I

0:03:48.560 --> 0:03:51.480
<v Speaker 2>went to go see them in Cleveland, and which is

0:03:51.560 --> 0:03:52.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, it's a rock.

0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:55.800
<v Speaker 1>And roll town. Were their fans called call themselves fish

0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:58.640
<v Speaker 1>Boners or Whatso I'm Sorry, that's the stupid question. But

0:03:58.680 --> 0:04:02.160
<v Speaker 1>I want to know question, and I don't.

0:04:02.600 --> 0:04:05.600
<v Speaker 2>I certainly didn't refer to myself as a fishboner at

0:04:05.600 --> 0:04:08.360
<v Speaker 2>the time, But had I thought of that, I think

0:04:08.400 --> 0:04:10.520
<v Speaker 2>I would have. I would have made a lot of

0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:12.920
<v Speaker 2>T shirts and made a lot of money. So you

0:04:12.920 --> 0:04:15.080
<v Speaker 2>were in Ohio, Okay, So we go to the We

0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:17.760
<v Speaker 2>go to the I think it's called the Apollo Theater

0:04:17.960 --> 0:04:22.400
<v Speaker 2>in Cleveland, Ohio to see Biohazard and Fishbone. Now I

0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:25.040
<v Speaker 2>was like really more into Fishbone, excited to see them,

0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:30.039
<v Speaker 2>and they were like kind of joyful, crazy sco but

0:04:30.240 --> 0:04:32.920
<v Speaker 2>Biohazard was first, and I was like, I love these

0:04:32.920 --> 0:04:34.719
<v Speaker 2>guys too. I mean, they're just super committed.

0:04:35.720 --> 0:04:36.760
<v Speaker 1>But I but I didn't know.

0:04:37.480 --> 0:04:42.000
<v Speaker 2>I kind of didn't know like death metal concert etiquette.

0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:45.159
<v Speaker 2>So I just was like, whatever is going to go down,

0:04:45.200 --> 0:04:46.520
<v Speaker 2>I want to be in the middle of it. I

0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:49.520
<v Speaker 2>want to be right up front. And so you know,

0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:52.080
<v Speaker 2>it's before the show and everybody's kind of like mingling

0:04:52.120 --> 0:04:55.160
<v Speaker 2>around and I'm looking around. I'm like, these guys look intense,

0:04:55.440 --> 0:04:57.760
<v Speaker 2>like there's a lot of there's like skinhead energy in

0:04:57.800 --> 0:05:00.800
<v Speaker 2>this crowd. It's like this is kind of a weird

0:05:00.960 --> 0:05:05.600
<v Speaker 2>vibe and uh, but like I'm I love just you know,

0:05:05.800 --> 0:05:08.160
<v Speaker 2>some human experience, like what's gonna have what's this going

0:05:08.200 --> 0:05:08.400
<v Speaker 2>to be?

0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:09.520
<v Speaker 1>Like? So I'm it's alive.

0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:12.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, And I'm right down in front and uh

0:05:12.720 --> 0:05:16.680
<v Speaker 2>and they start playing that song Carmina Burana. Do you

0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:19.880
<v Speaker 2>know that that it's a famous it's this famous classical

0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:25.240
<v Speaker 2>music that's that sounds like it's from the omen like that.

0:05:27.440 --> 0:05:32.520
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, yeah, exactly.

0:05:32.800 --> 0:05:35.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So that they start playing that and it's getting

0:05:35.279 --> 0:05:38.880
<v Speaker 2>louder and louder, and the tension in the room is

0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:43.120
<v Speaker 2>just getting more and more intense and uh. And the

0:05:43.200 --> 0:05:46.240
<v Speaker 2>lights are going out and I'm on the I'm in

0:05:46.360 --> 0:05:50.400
<v Speaker 2>sort of the pit area and uh and it's really crowded,

0:05:50.560 --> 0:05:54.560
<v Speaker 2>like super dense, and people are starting to like jump

0:05:54.680 --> 0:05:56.960
<v Speaker 2>up and down and get like starting to get a

0:05:57.000 --> 0:06:00.800
<v Speaker 2>little bit I don't know, the energy is changing and uh.

0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:04.159
<v Speaker 2>And then all of a sudden, a hole, like a

0:06:04.279 --> 0:06:07.800
<v Speaker 2>vacuum forms in the middle of the pit, which is

0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:11.200
<v Speaker 2>to say, like everyone everyone kind of realized at the

0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:13.159
<v Speaker 2>same moment that they didn't want to be in the

0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:15.359
<v Speaker 2>middle of the pit and it just started to open up.

0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:19.240
<v Speaker 2>I don't know what's gonna happen. There's a lot of

0:06:19.279 --> 0:06:22.840
<v Speaker 2>scary looking dudes around getting real intense and fired up

0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:26.919
<v Speaker 2>and excited. And then sure enough the lights come on

0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:34.520
<v Speaker 2>and the and bio hazard just and everyone rushes into

0:06:34.560 --> 0:06:37.800
<v Speaker 2>this void and crushes up against the front of the

0:06:37.839 --> 0:06:44.400
<v Speaker 2>stage with like really intense mosh pit rage and anger,

0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:49.400
<v Speaker 2>and like everyone's just throwing punches for but for fun.

0:06:49.480 --> 0:06:53.039
<v Speaker 2>Like it's just it's like, at first, I'm absolutely terrified.

0:06:53.320 --> 0:06:55.159
<v Speaker 2>How do I get out of this. I don't want

0:06:55.160 --> 0:06:57.080
<v Speaker 2>to get killed. I don't want to get like fall

0:06:57.160 --> 0:07:00.160
<v Speaker 2>down and get trampled or something. But the music is

0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:05.320
<v Speaker 2>also kind of awesome, and I start seeing people stage diving,

0:07:05.640 --> 0:07:07.520
<v Speaker 2>and I was like, okay, the people that are stage

0:07:07.560 --> 0:07:09.720
<v Speaker 2>diving are landing on top of the crowd and getting

0:07:09.760 --> 0:07:14.160
<v Speaker 2>passed back. So so I was like, this is this,

0:07:14.160 --> 0:07:17.280
<v Speaker 2>This is my escape. And so I managed to climb

0:07:17.360 --> 0:07:20.480
<v Speaker 2>up on the this this sort of stanchion or whatever

0:07:20.760 --> 0:07:22.800
<v Speaker 2>in front of the stage. There was like a you know,

0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:26.240
<v Speaker 2>a little row where these big burly security dudes were

0:07:26.280 --> 0:07:28.040
<v Speaker 2>guarding the stage, but in front of that you could

0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:31.600
<v Speaker 2>climb onto the railing and jump into the crowd, and

0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:34.240
<v Speaker 2>so I did. I climbed up and was just like

0:07:34.640 --> 0:07:40.120
<v Speaker 2>a landed on top and I was passed all the way.

0:07:39.920 --> 0:07:42.640
<v Speaker 1>To the back all the concession stand.

0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:47.000
<v Speaker 2>Directly to a guy handing me a congratulatory.

0:07:46.200 --> 0:07:50.200
<v Speaker 1>People and he's.

0:07:48.680 --> 0:07:51.840
<v Speaker 2>Like, congradulator, you're still alive. But yeah, so I did

0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:53.160
<v Speaker 2>escape with my life.

0:07:53.600 --> 0:07:56.200
<v Speaker 1>I'm really happy you did. And also like I love

0:07:56.280 --> 0:07:59.360
<v Speaker 1>that oh fuck moment that we've all had when you

0:07:59.440 --> 0:08:01.280
<v Speaker 1>realize that like you're in the wrong place at the

0:08:01.280 --> 0:08:01.960
<v Speaker 1>wrong time.

0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:03.520
<v Speaker 2>You know, like you're equipped.

0:08:03.640 --> 0:08:04.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, then you're ill equipped.

0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:07.320
<v Speaker 2>You just don't have the knowledge or the skills.

0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:08.960
<v Speaker 1>I just want to dance, you guys.

0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:11.679
<v Speaker 2>I'm wearing sneakers. You all have combat boots.

0:08:17.720 --> 0:08:25.880
<v Speaker 1>All right, man, let's escape. Let's rock and roll. Oh yeah,

0:08:26.000 --> 0:08:29.360
<v Speaker 1>we're gonna talk about Olegg's Great Escape. Okay, Now to

0:08:29.360 --> 0:08:31.840
<v Speaker 1>get us there, let's talk about who he was and

0:08:31.880 --> 0:08:35.600
<v Speaker 1>what made him that Soviet spy and why he switched

0:08:35.600 --> 0:08:38.720
<v Speaker 1>sides from the Soviets to the West. So, first of all,

0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:40.680
<v Speaker 1>he was in the family business, right, this was sort

0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:42.960
<v Speaker 1>of like a thing that they did. Now. His dad

0:08:43.080 --> 0:08:45.920
<v Speaker 1>was a hardcore communist, like to the level where he

0:08:46.040 --> 0:08:48.360
<v Speaker 1>joined the secret police and was put in charge of

0:08:48.360 --> 0:08:52.240
<v Speaker 1>indoctrinating new recruits, and that was how he raised his kids.

0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:55.920
<v Speaker 1>So you know, no barney for Oleg and his older brother, No, no,

0:08:56.520 --> 0:09:00.680
<v Speaker 1>they became KGB agents. Why wouldn't you. Inteen sixty six

0:09:00.800 --> 0:09:03.960
<v Speaker 1>only got his first assignment outside the USSR, where he

0:09:04.040 --> 0:09:07.800
<v Speaker 1>was posted to the Soviet embassy in Copenhagen. The Danish

0:09:07.800 --> 0:09:10.200
<v Speaker 1>government knew that he was there, but officially he was

0:09:10.360 --> 0:09:13.520
<v Speaker 1>just part of the embassy staff, but secretly his mission

0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:16.400
<v Speaker 1>was to manage the network of undercover spies throughout the country.

0:09:16.760 --> 0:09:18.319
<v Speaker 1>Not that this would have been a real surprise of

0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:21.160
<v Speaker 1>the Danes, because of the twenty workers of the Soviet embassy,

0:09:21.240 --> 0:09:22.240
<v Speaker 1>fourteen were spies.

0:09:22.320 --> 0:09:24.280
<v Speaker 2>I pretty much if you're if you're a Russian in

0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:27.680
<v Speaker 2>the sixties and seventies, like in another country, you're probably

0:09:27.760 --> 0:09:28.160
<v Speaker 2>a spy.

0:09:28.640 --> 0:09:31.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. But also yeah, I imagine the dates were too

0:09:31.559 --> 0:09:33.720
<v Speaker 1>busy being happy to give a fuck about the spies.

0:09:33.760 --> 0:09:37.000
<v Speaker 1>They're like, un spies, Yeah, that's cool.

0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:40.439
<v Speaker 2>Like what are you gonna spy on it?

0:09:40.520 --> 0:09:44.120
<v Speaker 1>Like what do we have to hide? Yeah? A minimum

0:09:44.160 --> 0:09:49.560
<v Speaker 1>people like a home man spy FORID now, living outside

0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:52.040
<v Speaker 1>the iron grip of the Soviet Union was really exciting

0:09:52.120 --> 0:09:55.400
<v Speaker 1>for all like he enjoyed seeing just how lucy goosey

0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:59.720
<v Speaker 1>things were in Copenhagen. Yeah, do you remember the honeypot story?

0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:00.760
<v Speaker 1>Honey pot story?

0:10:00.840 --> 0:10:03.079
<v Speaker 2>I'm about to yeah, alright, Well is it honey pot

0:10:03.160 --> 0:10:03.880
<v Speaker 2>or honey trap?

0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:06.840
<v Speaker 1>I think honey pot? I believe is any pot. Honey

0:10:06.840 --> 0:10:09.760
<v Speaker 1>trap would be more. I'm happy to tell you it

0:10:09.880 --> 0:10:12.880
<v Speaker 1>is both a honey trap and a honey pot.

0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:14.840
<v Speaker 2>Well, you have to have a honeypot to ha to

0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:15.680
<v Speaker 2>set honey.

0:10:15.520 --> 0:10:18.080
<v Speaker 1>Trap it, you gotta have it, Thank you over lords.

0:10:18.200 --> 0:10:23.520
<v Speaker 2>All right, But no Olegg. I think we touched on

0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:27.320
<v Speaker 2>this before. But he's he was a critical character in

0:10:27.360 --> 0:10:31.079
<v Speaker 2>the whole Able Archer eighty three story that my podcast

0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:33.600
<v Speaker 2>is about. And I'm so psyched we're talking about him

0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:37.160
<v Speaker 2>because I have just the tiniest bit of knowledge about Olegg,

0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:41.160
<v Speaker 2>enough to maybe sound like a smarty pants, but not

0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:46.560
<v Speaker 2>enough to really contribute anything meaningful. But but but where

0:10:46.559 --> 0:10:47.440
<v Speaker 2>were we with Olegg?

0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:50.360
<v Speaker 1>He's so he's so he went for a stroll this

0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:53.320
<v Speaker 1>one time through the red light district, which it seems

0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:55.679
<v Speaker 1>like the North k State seemed to just all have

0:10:55.760 --> 0:10:58.040
<v Speaker 1>red light districts. You know, they just call him the district. Now,

0:10:58.080 --> 0:11:00.439
<v Speaker 1>I guess sure. So he browsed a show that was

0:11:00.480 --> 0:11:03.679
<v Speaker 1>selling sex toys, and he even bought some gay porn

0:11:03.720 --> 0:11:06.440
<v Speaker 1>and brought it home to show his wife. He probably

0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:09.680
<v Speaker 1>displayed it on his mantelpiece, because you know, freedom. He's like,

0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:13.400
<v Speaker 1>look at the old soul. They were so flexible, these men. Yeah,

0:11:13.440 --> 0:11:15.560
<v Speaker 1>And so he bought a gay porn magazine and he

0:11:15.600 --> 0:11:16.520
<v Speaker 1>put it on his mantle.

0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:21.080
<v Speaker 2>Literally, he's it. He's excited by the gay pornography, not

0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:25.240
<v Speaker 2>because it is erotic to him, but because it is

0:11:25.280 --> 0:11:28.240
<v Speaker 2>such He's like, can you believe that they are allowed

0:11:28.280 --> 0:11:28.800
<v Speaker 2>to do this?

0:11:28.960 --> 0:11:31.120
<v Speaker 1>And they put him in pictures on these lis of them,

0:11:31.160 --> 0:11:33.320
<v Speaker 1>and they put the red lights into fantastic you know,

0:11:33.400 --> 0:11:34.360
<v Speaker 1>so get everyone.

0:11:34.600 --> 0:11:38.360
<v Speaker 2>This would get you so quickly shot in the in

0:11:38.400 --> 0:11:39.640
<v Speaker 2>the Soviet Union that's on.

0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:43.400
<v Speaker 1>And so this, this little purchase is what kind of

0:11:43.400 --> 0:11:46.360
<v Speaker 1>sets us up for the goofiness of it. Because one

0:11:46.480 --> 0:11:50.040
<v Speaker 1>night a local police captain invited Olegg and his wife

0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:52.760
<v Speaker 1>over for a dinner so that the Danish spies could

0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:55.880
<v Speaker 1>sweep the apartment, and they spotted the magazine, and it

0:11:56.000 --> 0:11:58.719
<v Speaker 1>made them think that he was one hundred percent gay, right,

0:11:59.080 --> 0:12:02.040
<v Speaker 1>which is reasonable, Yes, I would say, particularly if it's

0:12:02.040 --> 0:12:04.319
<v Speaker 1>in your mantle piece, like I was just like you're like, hello,

0:12:04.440 --> 0:12:06.480
<v Speaker 1>welcome to my house, and here is my here is

0:12:06.520 --> 0:12:08.440
<v Speaker 1>what I love to do when my wife's not here.

0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:10.640
<v Speaker 2>I just want to comment just that this story could

0:12:10.679 --> 0:12:15.920
<v Speaker 2>never happen today, Like if somebody showed you pornography in

0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:18.719
<v Speaker 2>an excited way and they were like, can you.

0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:20.040
<v Speaker 1>Believe this is so?

0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:23.439
<v Speaker 2>Look at up the how exuberantly free and happy these

0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:26.000
<v Speaker 2>people in this pornographic magazine are.

0:12:26.360 --> 0:12:28.959
<v Speaker 1>And look what we're all smiling. Except it is one

0:12:28.960 --> 0:12:30.240
<v Speaker 1>guy and he's got a mask on.

0:12:30.920 --> 0:12:33.280
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So the Danes go to his apartment they find

0:12:33.280 --> 0:12:35.920
<v Speaker 2>this gay pornography and they're like, oh, obviously he's gay.

0:12:36.080 --> 0:12:39.040
<v Speaker 2>So we're going to set a honey trap there you go,

0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:44.560
<v Speaker 2>and we're going to uh try to blackmail him to

0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:49.400
<v Speaker 2>be a an informant because we know he's KGB. We

0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:52.720
<v Speaker 2>want to flip him. So then they get they get

0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:57.000
<v Speaker 2>a guy to hit on him at a party, right right,

0:12:57.440 --> 0:13:00.240
<v Speaker 2>and and ol Like's just like oh what a nice guy,

0:13:00.960 --> 0:13:03.480
<v Speaker 2>guy like friendly and like make it. They just get

0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:06.880
<v Speaker 2>nowhere with it, like there's just no traction because that's

0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:11.480
<v Speaker 2>not that's not Olegg's persuasion. So, uh, it's just a

0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:12.720
<v Speaker 2>failed honey trap.

0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:15.440
<v Speaker 1>Also, I can imagine, like so the Eagle hit that

0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:19.200
<v Speaker 1>that like devilishly handsome young man must have had. He's

0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:22.760
<v Speaker 1>like the Danish, like's wrong with you? Don't like sea?

0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:25.359
<v Speaker 1>That's beautiful?

0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:29.640
<v Speaker 2>I was specifically chosen as a honey trap.

0:13:29.840 --> 0:13:32.520
<v Speaker 1>I am the hottest agent, I am so sexy. What

0:13:32.559 --> 0:13:34.640
<v Speaker 1>the fuck is wrong with this guy? And meanwhile olegs

0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:36.839
<v Speaker 1>his house me like mean, man, these days are really

0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:37.480
<v Speaker 1>fucking nice.

0:13:37.559 --> 0:13:41.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:45.480
<v Speaker 1>So in the end, it wasn't actually the Danish recruiting

0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:48.000
<v Speaker 1>that swayed him to turn against the Iron Curtain, but

0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:56.160
<v Speaker 1>it was the Soviets themselves. In nineteen sixty eight, the

0:13:56.240 --> 0:14:01.000
<v Speaker 1>Soviets brutally crushed the prog Spring when Hanks rolled into

0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:05.920
<v Speaker 1>Czechoslovakia to squash an uprising. There's incredibly violent, incredibly bloody.

0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:09.080
<v Speaker 1>So before this, Olegg had this dreamy idea of what

0:14:09.120 --> 0:14:11.439
<v Speaker 1>the Soviet Union was, the stuff that he had learned

0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:13.240
<v Speaker 1>from his dad about how good it was to be

0:14:13.240 --> 0:14:16.400
<v Speaker 1>a communist, you know, But seeing the progue Spring finally

0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:21.880
<v Speaker 1>convinced him how brutal the USSR was. Sure, so Olegg

0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:25.320
<v Speaker 1>was an unhappy Soviet in nineteen seventy two, when one

0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:27.960
<v Speaker 1>of his old friends showed up at his apartment unannounced.

0:14:28.240 --> 0:14:30.640
<v Speaker 1>By the way that he was talking, Olegg realized that

0:14:30.680 --> 0:14:33.280
<v Speaker 1>he was being tested by Western spies to see if

0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:35.760
<v Speaker 1>he would flip. Right. Chatting with his buddy, he said

0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:38.200
<v Speaker 1>how disappointed he was in the Soviet Union, and it

0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:40.240
<v Speaker 1>was a message to them that he was ready to

0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:43.200
<v Speaker 1>cooperate in the West. Now, I wonder what do you think?

0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:45.280
<v Speaker 1>What do you think? He was saying that like made

0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:48.480
<v Speaker 1>him realize that he was getting recruited about the West.

0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:52.680
<v Speaker 2>I just imagine that these kinds of conversations between spies

0:14:53.040 --> 0:14:55.480
<v Speaker 2>where they're trying to sort of suss each other out

0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:57.640
<v Speaker 2>and figure out if am.

0:14:57.600 --> 0:14:58.400
<v Speaker 1>I giving it?

0:14:58.480 --> 0:15:00.440
<v Speaker 2>Like is he giving me a signal? And he's giving

0:15:00.440 --> 0:15:02.840
<v Speaker 2>me an opening. I would just I picture of those

0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:07.880
<v Speaker 2>conversations as super tense and and like lots of like

0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:12.320
<v Speaker 2>overt winking and kind of like and like wild gesturing

0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:16.000
<v Speaker 2>yes and like and like fake laughing but with like

0:15:16.680 --> 0:15:18.720
<v Speaker 2>but with like weird intense eyes.

0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:21.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it would. It would be crazy if I like

0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:23.520
<v Speaker 1>the McDonald's.

0:15:24.200 --> 0:15:28.320
<v Speaker 2>But Oleg is really he's a really fascinating double agent. Ultimately,

0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:33.760
<v Speaker 2>because he's an idealist and he's not a like like

0:15:33.800 --> 0:15:38.720
<v Speaker 2>a lot of double agents are, uh the money. They're

0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:41.160
<v Speaker 2>either in it for the money, or they're psychotic and

0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:44.320
<v Speaker 2>they just want the thrill of it, or because.

0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:48.160
<v Speaker 1>They they've been sight they've been, or because.

0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:50.120
<v Speaker 2>They hate their homeland and they want, you know, they

0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:53.360
<v Speaker 2>they want to sort of like doom their homeland for

0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:57.040
<v Speaker 2>some reason. But like there are Americans who who wound

0:15:57.080 --> 0:16:00.920
<v Speaker 2>up hating America and becoming double agents four or the

0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:04.320
<v Speaker 2>Soviets at the time. But what's fascinating about Oleg is

0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:08.720
<v Speaker 2>that he never didn't love Russia and or the Soviet

0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:12.960
<v Speaker 2>Union or what Russia kind of represented historically, and he

0:16:13.040 --> 0:16:16.840
<v Speaker 2>never he never stopped hoping for the best for Russia,

0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:20.960
<v Speaker 2>and he felt that by helping the West, he was

0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:26.160
<v Speaker 2>helping Russia's future, the Soviet future.

0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:29.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and to your point, here's where we see how

0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:32.840
<v Speaker 1>clever Olegg is right, because he also told the KGB

0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:35.200
<v Speaker 1>that he was going to go meet with a British agent.

0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:38.600
<v Speaker 1>So his bosses in Moscow told him to go for it.

0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:41.280
<v Speaker 1>They wanted to see if they could use Gordievski as

0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:44.120
<v Speaker 1>a false double agent to fool the British but they

0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:46.600
<v Speaker 1>didn't know that Oleg was for real, for real right,

0:16:46.800 --> 0:16:49.640
<v Speaker 1>ready to switch sides. When Oleg finally met with the British,

0:16:49.720 --> 0:16:52.440
<v Speaker 1>he agreed to work with them under three conditions. First,

0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:55.200
<v Speaker 1>he didn't want to attack or injure any other KGB agents.

0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:59.600
<v Speaker 1>He was not offering to become a British assassin, you know. Second,

0:16:59.720 --> 0:17:02.480
<v Speaker 1>he he didn't want to be secretly photographed recorded, which

0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:04.520
<v Speaker 1>makes a lot of fucking I can't imagine like a

0:17:04.560 --> 0:17:06.760
<v Speaker 1>spy being like, but just takes lots of pictures of me,

0:17:06.800 --> 0:17:08.840
<v Speaker 1>Please just like make sure that you get a good one.

0:17:08.880 --> 0:17:12.640
<v Speaker 1>It's from my album. And Third, he would take absolutely

0:17:12.800 --> 0:17:15.560
<v Speaker 1>no pay. He wasn't doing this for the money. He

0:17:15.720 --> 0:17:18.960
<v Speaker 1>was doing it because he no longer believed in this

0:17:19.160 --> 0:17:21.439
<v Speaker 1>in how the Soviets were running it. You know, right,

0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:23.520
<v Speaker 1>what would it take for you to become a spy

0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:26.080
<v Speaker 1>ed in this time? What would they have to offer you?

0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:29.159
<v Speaker 1>You're a Soviet Union and you're like, they're like you

0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:31.240
<v Speaker 1>gotta defective America? What would it take?

0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:35.920
<v Speaker 2>Let's see, this is nineteen, this is about four, okay,

0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:39.480
<v Speaker 2>nine said four, So I'm I'm like about one years old.

0:17:39.720 --> 0:17:41.399
<v Speaker 1>I would it's just like a good I would just

0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:43.240
<v Speaker 1>think like a bottle of milk would A bottle of

0:17:43.280 --> 0:17:46.600
<v Speaker 1>milk would, right, And then you're immediately a double agent immediately.

0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:51.240
<v Speaker 1>So in nineteen seventy four, Old Egg started sneaking roles

0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:54.600
<v Speaker 1>of microfilm of documents out of the Soviet headquarters on

0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:56.879
<v Speaker 1>his lunch breaks. Right, he would hand them off to

0:17:56.920 --> 0:17:59.280
<v Speaker 1>be copied, pick them up on his way back, and

0:17:59.359 --> 0:18:02.119
<v Speaker 1>drop them off again before anyone noticed they were missing.

0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:04.440
<v Speaker 1>But this was also the year that he got his

0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:08.760
<v Speaker 1>first code name from the British, and they named him Sunbeam.

0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:14.159
<v Speaker 1>What would be your code name, Cowboy Rid? No, I

0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:16.720
<v Speaker 1>don't know, Cowboy Rid. I would like mine to be

0:18:16.760 --> 0:18:23.320
<v Speaker 1>a fish boner. Nobody would know. So nineteen seventy four

0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:26.520
<v Speaker 1>was also the year that Olegg met his second wife, Layla.

0:18:27.080 --> 0:18:30.600
<v Speaker 1>She was a secretary at the World Health Organization in Copenhagen,

0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:33.760
<v Speaker 1>and the pair began a very low key, very slow

0:18:33.840 --> 0:18:37.840
<v Speaker 1>motion affair. You know, he had code names for this

0:18:37.880 --> 0:18:41.160
<v Speaker 1>affair too, was what is a slow motion affair? Overlords?

0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:44.800
<v Speaker 1>What is this that it happened? Was it tantric? Is

0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:47.359
<v Speaker 1>that what you're referring to, like slow motion is just

0:18:47.520 --> 0:18:51.920
<v Speaker 1>slow simmering? Answer me that is correct. It took many

0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:56.320
<v Speaker 1>years for him to leave his first wife and choose Laila. Okay, slow,

0:18:56.320 --> 0:18:59.960
<v Speaker 1>most affair, got it. So Olegg was leaving the Soviets

0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:02.200
<v Speaker 1>for the British, and he was also leaving his first

0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:05.440
<v Speaker 1>wife for Laila. Also, women named Leila tended to make

0:19:05.480 --> 0:19:09.840
<v Speaker 1>men in the seventies go insane George Harris and Eric Clapton,

0:19:09.960 --> 0:19:12.480
<v Speaker 1>you know, which is also a crazy story in of itself.

0:19:12.720 --> 0:19:22.040
<v Speaker 1>Her name was actually Patty Voyd, but whatever in the way,

0:19:22.280 --> 0:19:27.320
<v Speaker 1>she Masha. So after four years, in nineteen seventy eight,

0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:29.360
<v Speaker 1>things were going really well for both of them, right,

0:19:29.440 --> 0:19:33.200
<v Speaker 1>but Olegg was recalled to Russia. So pack your bags, ed,

0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:46.240
<v Speaker 1>we're going to the Kremlin. Oligg was stationed in Moscow

0:19:46.280 --> 0:19:48.120
<v Speaker 1>for the next few years, and he spent this time

0:19:48.160 --> 0:19:50.040
<v Speaker 1>building his new family with late.

0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:51.040
<v Speaker 2>Right, right, right, yeah, yeah.

0:19:51.080 --> 0:19:53.240
<v Speaker 1>They were married in nineteen seventy nine and their first

0:19:53.359 --> 0:19:56.680
<v Speaker 1>daughter was born the next year. Now, meanwhile, she had

0:19:56.720 --> 0:19:58.879
<v Speaker 1>no idea that he was actually a double agent between

0:19:58.960 --> 0:20:01.680
<v Speaker 1>the Soviet Union for the British. And Olegg was never

0:20:01.720 --> 0:20:04.159
<v Speaker 1>really comfortable in Russia anymore, so he wanted to be

0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:04.840
<v Speaker 1>back in England.

0:20:04.880 --> 0:20:07.080
<v Speaker 2>There was no gay pornography, which at that point for

0:20:07.160 --> 0:20:09.959
<v Speaker 2>him again not a turn on, just was something that

0:20:10.080 --> 0:20:11.760
<v Speaker 2>had become like a comfort.

0:20:11.359 --> 0:20:13.800
<v Speaker 1>He's like, yes, yes, it's democracy, but about the gay

0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:15.400
<v Speaker 1>board on the wad this it.

0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:17.840
<v Speaker 2>Was a comfort blanket for him, just wants to know

0:20:17.880 --> 0:20:18.280
<v Speaker 2>it's there.

0:20:18.560 --> 0:20:21.840
<v Speaker 1>Exactly. So, in the summer of nineteen eighty one, Oleg

0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:26.119
<v Speaker 1>passed this super spy English exam that qualified him for

0:20:26.200 --> 0:20:28.919
<v Speaker 1>a post at the Russian Embassy in London. And this

0:20:28.960 --> 0:20:31.720
<v Speaker 1>is where you're talking about. So by the by that fall,

0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:34.399
<v Speaker 1>his second daughter was born and the KGB were finally

0:20:34.440 --> 0:20:36.760
<v Speaker 1>convinced that the new marriage was more solid than the

0:20:36.800 --> 0:20:39.439
<v Speaker 1>first one. This feels like a weird detail, but it

0:20:39.520 --> 0:20:43.200
<v Speaker 1>was important because it helped the KGB decide that Olegg

0:20:43.200 --> 0:20:44.040
<v Speaker 1>could be trusted.

0:20:44.200 --> 0:20:44.560
<v Speaker 2>Right.

0:20:44.560 --> 0:20:46.639
<v Speaker 1>They're like, if he can make two marriages work, he

0:20:46.680 --> 0:20:47.080
<v Speaker 1>can do this.

0:20:47.320 --> 0:20:49.920
<v Speaker 2>Well, no, they it is true that that that the KGB,

0:20:50.280 --> 0:20:55.760
<v Speaker 2>if you had a rocky relationship with a spouse, then

0:20:55.880 --> 0:20:57.800
<v Speaker 2>you're a risky agent.

0:20:57.720 --> 0:21:00.560
<v Speaker 1>Which makes sense, right, Coral Kla couldn't.

0:21:00.720 --> 0:21:04.119
<v Speaker 2>There was like more openings for you know, to get

0:21:04.520 --> 0:21:07.160
<v Speaker 2>in trouble or blackmailed or whatever.

0:21:07.000 --> 0:21:10.879
<v Speaker 1>Exactly, And they're like, well, this man wasn't happy in

0:21:10.880 --> 0:21:13.200
<v Speaker 1>his first marriage, he left and created the second marriage.

0:21:13.200 --> 0:21:15.720
<v Speaker 1>This is a reliable man, so they let him take

0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:18.080
<v Speaker 1>the job in London. And because if there's anything to

0:21:18.119 --> 0:21:21.800
<v Speaker 1>be said about the KGB, it's they're romantics. Finally, when

0:21:21.840 --> 0:21:24.639
<v Speaker 1>Olegg arrived in London in June nineteen eighty two, he

0:21:24.760 --> 0:21:27.120
<v Speaker 1>was an easy reach of his British spy friends. Now

0:21:27.160 --> 0:21:30.160
<v Speaker 1>he could pass them even more information and even lower risk.

0:21:30.440 --> 0:21:32.679
<v Speaker 1>The British spies decided to switch it up with his

0:21:32.800 --> 0:21:35.680
<v Speaker 1>nickname with his code name, and the new code name

0:21:35.760 --> 0:21:39.679
<v Speaker 1>was nocked In. Well, this was his British code name, okay,

0:21:39.960 --> 0:21:43.160
<v Speaker 1>So the Brits were passing along until to the CIA too.

0:21:43.520 --> 0:21:46.680
<v Speaker 1>And the Americans didn't know Nockton's identity, which is important later,

0:21:47.040 --> 0:21:48.800
<v Speaker 1>but they did know that he was a high ranking

0:21:48.880 --> 0:21:52.000
<v Speaker 1>KGB officer, so they gave him their own nickname and

0:21:52.359 --> 0:21:55.119
<v Speaker 1>code name. The spy community is going to be up

0:21:55.119 --> 0:21:57.680
<v Speaker 1>in arms that I keep calling it a nickname. They

0:21:57.680 --> 0:22:02.160
<v Speaker 1>called him Tickle, so now he is Tickle right right right.

0:22:02.880 --> 0:22:05.080
<v Speaker 1>I love the idea of like a copywriter being like,

0:22:05.119 --> 0:22:07.080
<v Speaker 1>what's a catchy one? You know that that's their only

0:22:07.200 --> 0:22:12.879
<v Speaker 1>their only job is to pick code names, because that's

0:22:12.920 --> 0:22:15.240
<v Speaker 1>what we feel. We feel tickled when we get this information.

0:22:15.600 --> 0:22:18.960
<v Speaker 1>He so once he was in London, he was able

0:22:19.000 --> 0:22:22.600
<v Speaker 1>to spend hours talking with him discussing the KGB methods,

0:22:22.640 --> 0:22:25.480
<v Speaker 1>the identity of hidden agents. You know, it's just tons

0:22:25.520 --> 0:22:29.160
<v Speaker 1>of secrets that six had never understood before. Now. Meanwhile,

0:22:29.320 --> 0:22:31.439
<v Speaker 1>the rest of the KGB was focused on the idea

0:22:31.560 --> 0:22:34.160
<v Speaker 1>of whether or not the United States and the rest

0:22:34.160 --> 0:22:37.440
<v Speaker 1>of the European allies we're going to start a nuclear war.

0:22:37.880 --> 0:22:40.680
<v Speaker 1>That's where it comes in boom. But one important thing

0:22:40.800 --> 0:22:43.200
<v Speaker 1>is that the KGB spies were supposed to be tracking

0:22:43.240 --> 0:22:46.000
<v Speaker 1>all sorts of weird things, right like looking for signs

0:22:46.000 --> 0:22:48.560
<v Speaker 1>that the West was preparing for a sudden nuclear attack.

0:22:48.960 --> 0:22:51.400
<v Speaker 2>Uh no, but it really, it really was a fascinating

0:22:51.440 --> 0:22:53.800
<v Speaker 2>that this system that the Soviets set up where they

0:22:53.840 --> 0:22:58.160
<v Speaker 2>were basically telling their spies like, give us intel so

0:22:58.200 --> 0:23:01.000
<v Speaker 2>that we can try to figure out if attack is

0:23:01.040 --> 0:23:04.200
<v Speaker 2>getting planned. And it was things like you know, how

0:23:04.240 --> 0:23:08.159
<v Speaker 2>many lights are on at the Pentagon, that's exactly, and

0:23:08.520 --> 0:23:12.040
<v Speaker 2>and you're like, well, I don't know, there's a hundred

0:23:12.119 --> 0:23:14.600
<v Speaker 2>lights on tonight at the Pentagon, okay, but usually there's

0:23:14.600 --> 0:23:17.879
<v Speaker 2>two hundred, So what's going on? They're planning something. Yeah,

0:23:17.920 --> 0:23:20.199
<v Speaker 2>And there were some things that you could point to

0:23:20.320 --> 0:23:24.040
<v Speaker 2>that were more practical, like are you seeing troop movements?

0:23:24.040 --> 0:23:29.439
<v Speaker 2>Are you seeing like hospitals building up supplies, or you know,

0:23:29.920 --> 0:23:33.280
<v Speaker 2>things that might indicate they expect to have lots of casualties.

0:23:34.359 --> 0:23:39.000
<v Speaker 2>Those might be reasonable indicators of potential war conflict. But

0:23:39.160 --> 0:23:41.840
<v Speaker 2>so much of it was not reasonable that it became

0:23:41.880 --> 0:23:46.560
<v Speaker 2>this insane, crazy, arbitrary algorithm arbitry.

0:23:46.560 --> 0:23:49.560
<v Speaker 1>I was gonna say, it just seems like so like ineffable,

0:23:49.600 --> 0:23:51.800
<v Speaker 1>where people were like, I don't know, tell me how

0:23:51.920 --> 0:23:54.680
<v Speaker 1>much how many burgers are there stashing? Right, because they

0:23:54.720 --> 0:23:56.560
<v Speaker 1>wanted to know how many they did. They wanted to

0:23:56.600 --> 0:23:59.480
<v Speaker 1>know how many cows were getting killed at a slaughter house.

0:23:59.800 --> 0:24:01.640
<v Speaker 1>The one that you're talking about is like they were

0:24:01.880 --> 0:24:04.800
<v Speaker 1>monitoring how much blood was being stashed in blood banks,

0:24:04.840 --> 0:24:06.720
<v Speaker 1>which makes a little more sense, but like cow's I

0:24:06.760 --> 0:24:07.919
<v Speaker 1>don't fucking know, man.

0:24:08.200 --> 0:24:10.920
<v Speaker 2>Right, But it is just it just it's like if

0:24:10.920 --> 0:24:14.480
<v Speaker 2>you're convinced something's gonna happen. And a lot of historians

0:24:14.480 --> 0:24:18.280
<v Speaker 2>believe that the Soviets really did think that NATO was

0:24:18.400 --> 0:24:21.560
<v Speaker 2>going to attack them, and so if you think that

0:24:22.000 --> 0:24:24.560
<v Speaker 2>everything you see is going to be through that prism,

0:24:24.600 --> 0:24:27.240
<v Speaker 2>and you're going to be like, uh, what's the reason

0:24:27.280 --> 0:24:32.360
<v Speaker 2>that all of this extra cowslaughtering indicator indicates an appending

0:24:32.440 --> 0:24:34.320
<v Speaker 2>nuclear attack? And you just sort of fill in the

0:24:34.359 --> 0:24:36.760
<v Speaker 2>blanks and all of a sudden you have all these reasons.

0:24:39.960 --> 0:24:42.640
<v Speaker 1>So our guy Olegg is caught in the middle of this, right,

0:24:42.720 --> 0:24:46.000
<v Speaker 1>he was telling I six everything he knew about the KGB,

0:24:46.440 --> 0:24:48.760
<v Speaker 1>and then he was telling the KGB whatever they wanted

0:24:48.760 --> 0:24:50.680
<v Speaker 1>to hear about how many cookies were in the fucking

0:24:50.680 --> 0:24:53.240
<v Speaker 1>shop or whatever it was, right, right, So he knew

0:24:53.240 --> 0:24:55.080
<v Speaker 1>that this put him in a really dangerous spot, and

0:24:55.119 --> 0:24:57.560
<v Speaker 1>he was right to be worried. Right, the KGB didn't

0:24:57.600 --> 0:25:00.520
<v Speaker 1>know that someone was passing their secrets to the British

0:25:00.760 --> 0:25:03.520
<v Speaker 1>because the British were sharing those secrets with the Americans

0:25:03.840 --> 0:25:06.520
<v Speaker 1>and the Russians, which I did not know had a

0:25:06.560 --> 0:25:11.240
<v Speaker 1>spy in the CIA. So fortunately for Olegg, the Brits

0:25:11.280 --> 0:25:14.760
<v Speaker 1>weren't telling the CIA about Tickle's identity. That was in

0:25:14.840 --> 0:25:18.480
<v Speaker 1>part because they enjoyed dangling secrets over the Americans. So

0:25:18.720 --> 0:25:21.320
<v Speaker 1>that's really a win for being petty, you know, sure,

0:25:21.520 --> 0:25:24.960
<v Speaker 1>then thank you thank you for being mad at your cousins.

0:25:25.680 --> 0:25:28.000
<v Speaker 1>So the Russians were really on the hunt for their trader,

0:25:28.359 --> 0:25:30.400
<v Speaker 1>and if the KGB found out that it was Olegg,

0:25:30.400 --> 0:25:32.159
<v Speaker 1>they were probably this is what they do. They call

0:25:32.240 --> 0:25:34.960
<v Speaker 1>him back to Russia to squeeze him for information before

0:25:35.000 --> 0:25:37.800
<v Speaker 1>they finally did away with him. Right. But now, if

0:25:37.840 --> 0:25:40.120
<v Speaker 1>he needed an escape route back to England, he would

0:25:40.240 --> 0:25:42.800
<v Speaker 1>need to get his wife and his two kids out

0:25:42.800 --> 0:25:45.760
<v Speaker 1>as well. So together with the British spies, they cooked

0:25:45.800 --> 0:25:49.800
<v Speaker 1>up this plan called Operation Pimlico name for the Pimlico

0:25:49.880 --> 0:25:55.720
<v Speaker 1>neighborhood in London. Are you ready for the super intelligence

0:25:55.760 --> 0:25:59.760
<v Speaker 1>spy plan? Oh yeah, okay, here we go, very elaborate.

0:26:00.640 --> 0:26:03.080
<v Speaker 1>If things go bad in Russia, they would stuff ole

0:26:03.119 --> 0:26:05.359
<v Speaker 1>Egg in the trunk of a car and drive like

0:26:05.440 --> 0:26:10.240
<v Speaker 1>fucking hell to Europe. That's it, that was a fun

0:26:10.600 --> 0:26:13.760
<v Speaker 1>I should do not And if the whole Gordievski family

0:26:14.040 --> 0:26:16.800
<v Speaker 1>was together, then the plan became much more elaborate. They

0:26:16.840 --> 0:26:19.560
<v Speaker 1>would stuff one man, one woman and two children in

0:26:19.600 --> 0:26:22.560
<v Speaker 1>the trunks of two cars and then drive like hell

0:26:22.640 --> 0:26:26.560
<v Speaker 1>to Europe. Who is thank god? I would be like

0:26:26.760 --> 0:26:30.520
<v Speaker 1>the guys. I feel safe, I feel heard, I feel understood,

0:26:32.520 --> 0:26:33.320
<v Speaker 1>I would.

0:26:33.040 --> 0:26:36.080
<v Speaker 2>Be like, Okay, so I'm gonna go back. I'm in London,

0:26:36.320 --> 0:26:38.840
<v Speaker 2>I'm happy as a clam. My family is all happy.

0:26:39.280 --> 0:26:43.120
<v Speaker 2>I'm about to go back to Russia to find out

0:26:43.320 --> 0:26:45.959
<v Speaker 2>if they know I'm a spy. If they do know

0:26:46.040 --> 0:26:48.879
<v Speaker 2>I'm a spy, then you stick me in a trunk

0:26:48.920 --> 0:26:50.960
<v Speaker 2>and try to get me back. And by the way,

0:26:51.040 --> 0:26:55.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm also claustrophobic, so I'm not down with any of them.

0:26:55.600 --> 0:26:57.919
<v Speaker 1>No. Also, but that you bring up a really interesting

0:26:57.960 --> 0:27:00.919
<v Speaker 1>point that I'm like, why do you go back anyway? Like,

0:27:01.440 --> 0:27:02.720
<v Speaker 1>you know what I'm saying, If you know that you

0:27:02.760 --> 0:27:05.479
<v Speaker 1>are an imminent threat, why go through the fucking process

0:27:05.520 --> 0:27:06.919
<v Speaker 1>of like just checking in, you know?

0:27:07.080 --> 0:27:10.760
<v Speaker 2>Because I think it's you're getting into the psychology of

0:27:10.840 --> 0:27:13.439
<v Speaker 2>spies at this point, which I can never wrap my

0:27:13.480 --> 0:27:17.640
<v Speaker 2>head around, Like the amount of information and the amount

0:27:17.680 --> 0:27:22.960
<v Speaker 2>of kind of like ruses and and lies that you

0:27:23.040 --> 0:27:26.480
<v Speaker 2>have to kind of maintain to be a spy, let

0:27:26.520 --> 0:27:30.639
<v Speaker 2>alone a double agent. Right, It's incredible, It's mind blowing.

0:27:30.680 --> 0:27:35.119
<v Speaker 2>And what's more insane about these guys people like Gordievski

0:27:35.200 --> 0:27:40.520
<v Speaker 2>and I got to interview a KGB spy he did,

0:27:40.760 --> 0:27:44.320
<v Speaker 2>Jack Barski, Yeah, And what's crazy about these guys is

0:27:44.359 --> 0:27:48.200
<v Speaker 2>that they're so confident. If you were like, Okay, Moscow

0:27:48.280 --> 0:27:50.560
<v Speaker 2>wants you to come home and check in, and if

0:27:50.600 --> 0:27:53.480
<v Speaker 2>you don't come home, then they're gonna know you're a

0:27:53.680 --> 0:27:57.199
<v Speaker 2>double agent, and so you better go home. But so

0:27:57.680 --> 0:28:00.800
<v Speaker 2>in my mind, you're like, well, maybe I should just

0:28:00.920 --> 0:28:03.240
<v Speaker 2>take my chances and stay here, because if I do

0:28:03.359 --> 0:28:06.920
<v Speaker 2>go back and then they then they interrogate me, am

0:28:06.960 --> 0:28:10.879
<v Speaker 2>I more screwed? Well, a guy like Gordievski is so

0:28:11.160 --> 0:28:14.160
<v Speaker 2>confident that he's been playing his cards perfectly the whole

0:28:14.200 --> 0:28:17.600
<v Speaker 2>time that he's like, eh, I'll just go back, but

0:28:17.800 --> 0:28:19.560
<v Speaker 2>they don't. I know, they don't have anything on me.

0:28:19.840 --> 0:28:22.920
<v Speaker 2>I know that they might suspect I'm a double agent,

0:28:23.160 --> 0:28:25.359
<v Speaker 2>but they can't prove it. And I know they can't

0:28:25.359 --> 0:28:29.080
<v Speaker 2>prove it. Now what that's an insane level of confidence.

0:28:29.200 --> 0:28:31.520
<v Speaker 2>Like to me, I would be like, I think I

0:28:31.680 --> 0:28:35.720
<v Speaker 2>cover all my bases, but I'm not sure. I mean, like, it.

0:28:35.680 --> 0:28:37.520
<v Speaker 1>Wouldn't take that much if they tell me come back

0:28:37.560 --> 0:28:39.080
<v Speaker 1>to Rush. I was like, that's it. I'm dead, Yeah,

0:28:39.120 --> 0:28:41.960
<v Speaker 1>fucking I'm safe. But you know, to your point too,

0:28:42.640 --> 0:28:45.320
<v Speaker 1>like that, once you're in that mindset and you've been

0:28:45.440 --> 0:28:48.440
<v Speaker 1>so used to just playing this card. Yeah, I don't

0:28:48.480 --> 0:28:52.440
<v Speaker 1>think it dawns on you the option of just staying right,

0:28:52.480 --> 0:28:54.959
<v Speaker 1>because then that just defeats the whole thing that you like,

0:28:55.120 --> 0:28:58.280
<v Speaker 1>whatever you build your personality around, and your mind game's about,

0:28:58.360 --> 0:28:59.880
<v Speaker 1>like you don't know how to do anything? Are you

0:29:00.120 --> 0:29:02.800
<v Speaker 1>sort of going on autopilot by going back to this sovietnion?

0:29:02.840 --> 0:29:04.800
<v Speaker 2>And we're looking at this from the standpoint of like

0:29:04.880 --> 0:29:07.880
<v Speaker 2>we're just average schmos who if we got put in

0:29:07.920 --> 0:29:11.000
<v Speaker 2>these situations, we would melt down and something like a

0:29:11.000 --> 0:29:11.760
<v Speaker 2>canary and just.

0:29:11.720 --> 0:29:12.560
<v Speaker 1>Be like gilt.

0:29:13.400 --> 0:29:16.880
<v Speaker 2>Right at this point, Oleg Gordievsky is I think he's

0:29:16.880 --> 0:29:19.840
<v Speaker 2>been a double agent for over ten years. He has

0:29:19.880 --> 0:29:24.200
<v Speaker 2>an incredible, uh, set of skills, set of kind of

0:29:24.240 --> 0:29:28.160
<v Speaker 2>like mind games, and like I said, confidence and this

0:29:28.280 --> 0:29:30.400
<v Speaker 2>is just part of it. You go back and you

0:29:30.520 --> 0:29:32.680
<v Speaker 2>play the game, and he just feels like he'll get

0:29:32.680 --> 0:29:34.600
<v Speaker 2>away with it and he'll get that almost.

0:29:34.400 --> 0:29:36.640
<v Speaker 1>But that confidence almost been him in the ass. It

0:29:36.640 --> 0:29:39.120
<v Speaker 1>It really did, Yeah, it did. So in May nineteen

0:29:39.160 --> 0:29:43.120
<v Speaker 1>eighty five, it finally happened. Right the KGB recalled Olig

0:29:43.120 --> 0:29:46.000
<v Speaker 1>to Moscow via telegram, so they said that he was

0:29:46.000 --> 0:29:48.160
<v Speaker 1>getting a promotion and needed to come back for some

0:29:48.240 --> 0:29:52.120
<v Speaker 1>high level secret preparations. But things didn't feel quite right

0:29:52.200 --> 0:29:55.040
<v Speaker 1>for Oleg right, so he confirmed with his British context

0:29:55.120 --> 0:29:58.200
<v Speaker 1>if he gave the signal, they would launch Operation Pimlico

0:29:58.320 --> 0:30:06.560
<v Speaker 1>to get him out of Russia. On May nineteenth, nineteen

0:30:06.600 --> 0:30:09.520
<v Speaker 1>eighty five, Olegg arrived in Moscow, where he had had

0:30:09.560 --> 0:30:12.240
<v Speaker 1>an apartment. There's a feeling that he got. He describes

0:30:12.280 --> 0:30:14.680
<v Speaker 1>a chill shooting up his spine, which if you're of

0:30:14.720 --> 0:30:17.400
<v Speaker 1>a spy like Oleg, that doesn't seem overly paranoid. That's

0:30:17.400 --> 0:30:20.000
<v Speaker 1>a really bad sign. The dead bold lock on his

0:30:20.080 --> 0:30:23.120
<v Speaker 1>apartment had been turned, so his place must have been

0:30:23.160 --> 0:30:27.160
<v Speaker 1>combed by other agents before he arrived. They were searching

0:30:27.240 --> 0:30:30.160
<v Speaker 1>vigorously for gay pornography. On the right side, he was

0:30:30.200 --> 0:30:33.160
<v Speaker 1>now a colonel in the KGB, so there were rules

0:30:33.240 --> 0:30:36.000
<v Speaker 1>about how to treat somebody of his rank. The Soviets

0:30:36.040 --> 0:30:38.479
<v Speaker 1>actually have to gather evidence and hold a trial if

0:30:38.480 --> 0:30:41.920
<v Speaker 1>they suspected him, So that bought him some time, you know,

0:30:42.240 --> 0:30:45.200
<v Speaker 1>but Oleg knew that they were onto him. After a

0:30:45.200 --> 0:30:48.160
<v Speaker 1>few days, Gordievski was called in for questioning, and this

0:30:48.200 --> 0:30:49.640
<v Speaker 1>is what we're talking about that, we would have fucking

0:30:49.680 --> 0:30:53.360
<v Speaker 1>folded this guy. In the interrogation, the other KGB agents

0:30:53.400 --> 0:30:56.959
<v Speaker 1>gave a spiked brandy and dug for details about his

0:30:57.000 --> 0:31:00.560
<v Speaker 1>British and Danish contacts. They asked him questions for hours,

0:31:00.600 --> 0:31:04.200
<v Speaker 1>and eventually Oleg blocked out. Now he doesn't even know

0:31:04.240 --> 0:31:06.360
<v Speaker 1>what the fuck happened. He was just allowed to leave

0:31:06.400 --> 0:31:08.960
<v Speaker 1>after he came to, so he could only guess that

0:31:09.080 --> 0:31:11.760
<v Speaker 1>he didn't give up anything about his counter or espionage.

0:31:11.840 --> 0:31:14.200
<v Speaker 1>How fucking scared would you be? Bro? If you're like

0:31:14.480 --> 0:31:16.240
<v Speaker 1>if you're like, do you think you have your shit together?

0:31:16.240 --> 0:31:17.800
<v Speaker 1>And then you block out? And then you come back

0:31:17.800 --> 0:31:19.760
<v Speaker 1>and we have all we wanted. Like I'm like, what

0:31:19.880 --> 0:31:22.280
<v Speaker 1>if I like, dude, I have two tequilas. I'm like

0:31:22.360 --> 0:31:23.680
<v Speaker 1>spilling fucking family secrets.

0:31:23.680 --> 0:31:27.520
<v Speaker 2>Man, I cannot even imagine that.

0:31:28.280 --> 0:31:30.040
<v Speaker 1>So at the end of May, Leylan and the kids

0:31:30.040 --> 0:31:32.400
<v Speaker 1>were brought back to Moscow and told that Old Egg

0:31:32.480 --> 0:31:34.680
<v Speaker 1>was sick. But when they get there, he didn't want

0:31:34.720 --> 0:31:37.400
<v Speaker 1>to let him know how dangerous things were, so he

0:31:37.440 --> 0:31:40.720
<v Speaker 1>acted like things for you know, like everything's fine, I'm fine,

0:31:40.800 --> 0:31:42.440
<v Speaker 1>you guys, okay, Like why is it? Don't be weird

0:31:42.440 --> 0:31:45.320
<v Speaker 1>about it? And he sent them off to a vacation

0:31:45.480 --> 0:31:48.360
<v Speaker 1>at the Caspian c Now, he says the same goodbye

0:31:48.440 --> 0:31:50.800
<v Speaker 1>was the hardest thing that he'd ever done. By the

0:31:50.840 --> 0:31:52.920
<v Speaker 1>time they would get back to Moscow, he was either

0:31:52.960 --> 0:32:06.760
<v Speaker 1>going to be dead or in exile. After this time

0:32:06.760 --> 0:32:09.040
<v Speaker 1>in the hospital, he was back in Moscow that July,

0:32:09.480 --> 0:32:11.920
<v Speaker 1>he felt eyes on him everywhere right. He feared it

0:32:11.960 --> 0:32:13.760
<v Speaker 1>was only a matter of time before he was snatched.

0:32:14.040 --> 0:32:16.680
<v Speaker 1>So if it was finally time to engage in Pimlico.

0:32:17.320 --> 0:32:20.360
<v Speaker 1>So the plan was supposed to go like this. Olegg

0:32:20.400 --> 0:32:22.480
<v Speaker 1>was supposed to stand on the street at seven thirty

0:32:22.520 --> 0:32:25.080
<v Speaker 1>am and he would be holding a crucial signal, this

0:32:25.240 --> 0:32:29.720
<v Speaker 1>plastic bag from the Safeway grocery store, signaling that he

0:32:29.840 --> 0:32:33.400
<v Speaker 1>needs a safe way out of this fucking place.

0:32:33.520 --> 0:32:37.880
<v Speaker 2>Do you believe what's so insane is it's like, we

0:32:37.960 --> 0:32:44.280
<v Speaker 2>give these spies so much credit for being like masterminds

0:32:44.320 --> 0:32:47.560
<v Speaker 2>and coming up with these elaborate schemes. And you can

0:32:47.600 --> 0:32:50.120
<v Speaker 2>just imagine Olegg talking to his I six handlers and

0:32:50.160 --> 0:32:54.520
<v Speaker 2>he's like, Okay, so what's the plan, guys, And they're like, uh,

0:32:54.640 --> 0:32:56.960
<v Speaker 2>you gonna stand there with a grocery bag if it's

0:32:56.960 --> 0:32:59.800
<v Speaker 2>a Safeway grocery bag. Huh, you're gonna jump in the trunk?

0:33:00.320 --> 0:33:03.680
<v Speaker 1>Wait what okay? Then but and then and then what? Oh?

0:33:03.680 --> 0:33:06.320
<v Speaker 2>Well, then we just drive. We drive, okay, and you

0:33:06.520 --> 0:33:08.040
<v Speaker 2>go we go to this like a safe house somewhere

0:33:08.080 --> 0:33:09.840
<v Speaker 2>and then getting in a hot air balloon or no,

0:33:10.320 --> 0:33:13.560
<v Speaker 2>we just we just go. We drive to Europe and

0:33:13.600 --> 0:33:14.400
<v Speaker 2>we hope for the best.

0:33:14.720 --> 0:33:17.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm gonna but we're gonna bring really positive attitudes.

0:33:17.920 --> 0:33:21.040
<v Speaker 2>And yes, I forgot. There's a lot of positive energy

0:33:21.360 --> 0:33:24.520
<v Speaker 2>around this whole operation. We've been we've been doing a

0:33:24.520 --> 0:33:27.440
<v Speaker 2>lot of like sold searching, Yeah, a lot of meditation.

0:33:27.680 --> 0:33:29.760
<v Speaker 2>We're just getting we're getting real psyched about it.

0:33:30.200 --> 0:33:33.360
<v Speaker 1>We're bringing our energy coach Ananda. His real name is Jeff,

0:33:33.360 --> 0:33:35.320
<v Speaker 1>but he is coming along for the ride and he's

0:33:35.440 --> 0:33:36.000
<v Speaker 1>very excited.

0:33:36.200 --> 0:33:37.600
<v Speaker 2>So wait, I just want to be clear. So I

0:33:37.680 --> 0:33:39.360
<v Speaker 2>just come to stand there with a bag, and then

0:33:39.400 --> 0:33:40.800
<v Speaker 2>I just jump in a car and the truck of

0:33:40.840 --> 0:33:42.520
<v Speaker 2>a car and and that's it.

0:33:42.880 --> 0:33:45.880
<v Speaker 1>Are we fucking fie? Are we just to come up

0:33:45.880 --> 0:33:50.840
<v Speaker 1>with coal? Shit? That doesn't sound good enough. So in

0:33:50.920 --> 0:33:54.240
<v Speaker 1>response to this fucking Safeway bag, another man would walk

0:33:54.280 --> 0:33:56.840
<v Speaker 1>past him, holding a green bag from the luxury department

0:33:56.920 --> 0:34:01.640
<v Speaker 1>store Harrod's, and he would be eating chocolate bar. Then

0:34:01.920 --> 0:34:04.320
<v Speaker 1>Olig was supposed to wait for three days, go to

0:34:04.440 --> 0:34:06.480
<v Speaker 1>church and pass a little note with the details of

0:34:06.480 --> 0:34:11.120
<v Speaker 1>his situation, and then wait again. So Olegg followed his

0:34:11.200 --> 0:34:13.480
<v Speaker 1>plan right. He did his little safe way shopping back

0:34:13.520 --> 0:34:16.360
<v Speaker 1>thing at the street corner. Message sent, but he didn't

0:34:16.400 --> 0:34:18.920
<v Speaker 1>notice anybody else following the plan. There were no herods back,

0:34:19.000 --> 0:34:22.279
<v Speaker 1>no with chocolates being eaten. So Oleg nervously waited three

0:34:22.360 --> 0:34:24.320
<v Speaker 1>days and went to church and he scribbled on a

0:34:24.320 --> 0:34:26.279
<v Speaker 1>little note that he was ready to pass along right,

0:34:26.360 --> 0:34:29.680
<v Speaker 1>and it said need excultration. He worried the whole way

0:34:29.719 --> 0:34:31.359
<v Speaker 1>that he was going to be found out because part

0:34:31.360 --> 0:34:32.839
<v Speaker 1>of the plan was for him to wear a hat

0:34:32.880 --> 0:34:35.960
<v Speaker 1>in church, and no one wears a hat in church.

0:34:36.160 --> 0:34:37.280
<v Speaker 2>No, not in Moscow.

0:34:37.640 --> 0:34:40.959
<v Speaker 1>Not in Moscow, you don't. When OI got to the church,

0:34:41.000 --> 0:34:43.160
<v Speaker 1>there was a sign hanging out in the front which

0:34:43.160 --> 0:34:45.719
<v Speaker 1>said all hats are welcome. No, they just said that

0:34:45.760 --> 0:34:48.960
<v Speaker 1>it was closed for redecoration. So Oli freed the fuck out.

0:34:49.000 --> 0:34:51.560
<v Speaker 1>He dashed back home, chewed up and swallowed his note

0:34:51.680 --> 0:34:54.000
<v Speaker 1>so it would never be found, and to sleep. He

0:34:54.080 --> 0:34:58.799
<v Speaker 1>crammed himself with sedatives and Cuban rum, which also, to

0:34:58.840 --> 0:35:01.919
<v Speaker 1>be honest, at this stage of his expltation, I would

0:35:01.920 --> 0:35:04.200
<v Speaker 1>be a full blown alcoholic man. Like you gotta have

0:35:04.280 --> 0:35:06.640
<v Speaker 1>something going on for you to cons I.

0:35:06.600 --> 0:35:10.480
<v Speaker 2>Mean the anxiety, That's what I just can't imagine. I

0:35:10.880 --> 0:35:15.800
<v Speaker 2>can't carry a lot like any kind of lie around.

0:35:16.080 --> 0:35:19.160
<v Speaker 2>I just I can't pull it off. I'm too I'm

0:35:19.200 --> 0:35:21.400
<v Speaker 2>just too much of a nervous nelly to let alone

0:35:21.440 --> 0:35:23.280
<v Speaker 2>like these grand life or death.

0:35:23.480 --> 0:35:28.239
<v Speaker 1>You know, I spent sleepless nights. If a wader says

0:35:28.280 --> 0:35:30.719
<v Speaker 1>welcome to the restaurant, I say thanks you too, like

0:35:30.760 --> 0:35:32.799
<v Speaker 1>I spent. I'll spin a sleepless night and be like,

0:35:32.840 --> 0:35:34.840
<v Speaker 1>oh fuck, I fucked it up. I fucked it.

0:35:34.920 --> 0:35:37.600
<v Speaker 2>You know he was already there.

0:35:36.640 --> 0:35:39.600
<v Speaker 1>He didn't know what he doesn't. Yeah, I'm the one

0:35:39.600 --> 0:35:41.680
<v Speaker 1>coming to his establishment. God damn it. What a rude

0:35:41.680 --> 0:35:45.960
<v Speaker 1>thing to say. So the next Tuesday, anxiety driven as

0:35:46.000 --> 0:35:48.040
<v Speaker 1>he is, he went back to the street corner once again.

0:35:48.280 --> 0:35:51.560
<v Speaker 1>He flew his Safeway shopping bag, and he was just

0:35:51.640 --> 0:35:55.560
<v Speaker 1>screaming internally the whole time, until finally another man walked

0:35:55.560 --> 0:35:57.920
<v Speaker 1>by him carrying a green bag and munching on a

0:35:58.000 --> 0:36:01.960
<v Speaker 1>chocolate Mars bar while making direct eye contact with Olegg

0:36:02.200 --> 0:36:07.040
<v Speaker 1>as he marched by. Message received boom. Also, I mean,

0:36:07.400 --> 0:36:10.880
<v Speaker 1>such an awkward, fucking secret spy signal, But fuck.

0:36:10.640 --> 0:36:13.239
<v Speaker 2>It, it's hard to look sort of serious and like

0:36:13.320 --> 0:36:15.560
<v Speaker 2>a spy guy chewing on a chocolate bar.

0:36:15.640 --> 0:36:19.359
<v Speaker 1>And making uninterrupted eye contact. Lah. And it turned out

0:36:19.400 --> 0:36:22.400
<v Speaker 1>to be the Danish agent, like he's just hoping for

0:36:22.400 --> 0:36:24.640
<v Speaker 1>a second run at the honeypotty. He's like, you're gonna

0:36:24.680 --> 0:36:26.600
<v Speaker 1>fucking look me in the eye this time. So for

0:36:26.680 --> 0:36:29.399
<v Speaker 1>the next two days, Olegg visited friends and families, saying

0:36:29.400 --> 0:36:32.400
<v Speaker 1>his goodbyes. You know, he talked about literature with his friends,

0:36:32.640 --> 0:36:34.719
<v Speaker 1>He jogged around his neighborhood. He tried to act as

0:36:34.760 --> 0:36:37.320
<v Speaker 1>normal as possible. He was the only one that knew

0:36:37.440 --> 0:36:39.319
<v Speaker 1>that he was about to run for his life in

0:36:39.360 --> 0:36:49.040
<v Speaker 1>a very non complicated way. So now we get to

0:36:49.080 --> 0:36:51.480
<v Speaker 1>the final bit of it, which is the day finally

0:36:51.560 --> 0:36:54.799
<v Speaker 1>came Oleg dunked out of his apartment. Now he knew

0:36:54.840 --> 0:36:57.719
<v Speaker 1>he was being followed, so he jogged directly into a

0:36:57.719 --> 0:37:00.360
<v Speaker 1>thick patch of trees and sig zagged his to the

0:37:00.360 --> 0:37:03.520
<v Speaker 1>train station, where he boarded on a trip toward Finland,

0:37:03.880 --> 0:37:06.520
<v Speaker 1>and this trip was wild man, so Oleg took too

0:37:06.560 --> 0:37:08.960
<v Speaker 1>many sedatives on the train, and then he ended up

0:37:09.040 --> 0:37:11.839
<v Speaker 1>falling out of a high bunk bed and gashing his

0:37:11.920 --> 0:37:15.040
<v Speaker 1>head open. So he stumbled around, bleeding on people like

0:37:15.080 --> 0:37:19.440
<v Speaker 1>I'm sorry, I'm sorry, not exactly keeping a low profile, right, yeah, exactly,

0:37:19.520 --> 0:37:22.399
<v Speaker 1>screaming about harrods and safeways like shut the fuck up, hole,

0:37:22.480 --> 0:37:25.040
<v Speaker 1>like you're so close now. When he finally caught a

0:37:25.040 --> 0:37:28.000
<v Speaker 1>bus near the finished border, Oleg went through a bonker

0:37:28.080 --> 0:37:30.480
<v Speaker 1>sequence of events right to get to the To get

0:37:30.480 --> 0:37:32.920
<v Speaker 1>the bus to stop at the right place, he convinced

0:37:32.920 --> 0:37:35.200
<v Speaker 1>the driver to pull over, telling him that he was

0:37:35.239 --> 0:37:37.359
<v Speaker 1>going to barf all over the seats, So the bus

0:37:37.440 --> 0:37:39.160
<v Speaker 1>let him out on the side of the road, where

0:37:39.200 --> 0:37:42.279
<v Speaker 1>he pretended to yak into the bushes until it drove away.

0:37:42.560 --> 0:37:45.319
<v Speaker 1>Once he was alone, Olig realized that he was way

0:37:45.320 --> 0:37:47.520
<v Speaker 1>too early for his meeting with the British Buys to

0:37:47.560 --> 0:37:49.160
<v Speaker 1>pick him up. So what does he do?

0:37:49.920 --> 0:37:53.279
<v Speaker 2>He this is amazing, This is truly the hubris of

0:37:53.320 --> 0:37:53.880
<v Speaker 2>these so.

0:37:53.920 --> 0:37:57.480
<v Speaker 1>You know what, this is fucking nuts. So he he waits?

0:37:57.680 --> 0:37:59.879
<v Speaker 1>Does he wait for a little like a good little

0:38:00.080 --> 0:38:00.520
<v Speaker 1>I defect.

0:38:01.080 --> 0:38:02.040
<v Speaker 2>What should you do?

0:38:02.200 --> 0:38:05.480
<v Speaker 1>What should you do in this? Stand here and wait?

0:38:05.760 --> 0:38:07.960
<v Speaker 1>You stand there, or you fucking wait.

0:38:07.960 --> 0:38:09.440
<v Speaker 2>Or you hide in the bushes.

0:38:09.600 --> 0:38:12.600
<v Speaker 1>He was like four hours early, right, it was like

0:38:12.600 --> 0:38:16.120
<v Speaker 1>a day early, man, Like you don't have to like survive, yeah,

0:38:15.800 --> 0:38:20.839
<v Speaker 1>and like take a nap, but watch people going by,

0:38:20.920 --> 0:38:24.080
<v Speaker 1>read a fucking book. But no, no, our pal Olegg

0:38:24.120 --> 0:38:26.680
<v Speaker 1>had a little rumbley in his little tummy, so he

0:38:26.760 --> 0:38:29.200
<v Speaker 1>decided to hitchhike to the nearest town and sit down

0:38:29.239 --> 0:38:32.440
<v Speaker 1>for lunch. He slammed down a beer, he ate some chicken,

0:38:32.600 --> 0:38:35.200
<v Speaker 1>bought another beer for the road, and he started walking

0:38:35.200 --> 0:38:36.160
<v Speaker 1>back to the meeting place.

0:38:38.640 --> 0:38:40.920
<v Speaker 2>By the way, it's eighteen miles. It's not just like

0:38:41.000 --> 0:38:43.440
<v Speaker 2>around the corner. It's like it's it's.

0:38:43.320 --> 0:38:47.000
<v Speaker 1>Far faster you walking, bro, Like yeah, it's it's completely

0:38:47.000 --> 0:38:50.520
<v Speaker 1>four hours and only only now he realized that he

0:38:50.560 --> 0:38:52.439
<v Speaker 1>had taken too long and that he might be late.

0:38:52.520 --> 0:38:54.680
<v Speaker 1>This is the first moment it strikes him when he's

0:38:54.680 --> 0:38:57.400
<v Speaker 1>walking back, right, So internally he was like what the

0:38:57.400 --> 0:38:59.279
<v Speaker 1>fuck am I doing? Like why did I not just

0:38:59.320 --> 0:39:01.960
<v Speaker 1>wait there? Because externainly he was just like walking around

0:39:01.960 --> 0:39:03.759
<v Speaker 1>with the bottle beer, sprinding down the road, as fast

0:39:03.760 --> 0:39:05.880
<v Speaker 1>as it could have been. Like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

0:39:05.920 --> 0:39:08.720
<v Speaker 1>You know. The worst of all, he was wearing corduroy pants,

0:39:08.760 --> 0:39:11.440
<v Speaker 1>which is a very Yeah, that's a lot of chafing, Boddy,

0:39:11.680 --> 0:39:13.239
<v Speaker 1>you know, I don't know about it. If you've ever

0:39:13.280 --> 0:39:13.799
<v Speaker 1>walked out.

0:39:13.680 --> 0:39:15.879
<v Speaker 2>It's gonna make a lot of noise. That's a lot

0:39:15.880 --> 0:39:16.640
<v Speaker 2>of swishing.

0:39:17.000 --> 0:39:19.200
<v Speaker 1>None of this is his spy Like, he's like just chicken.

0:39:19.320 --> 0:39:21.279
<v Speaker 1>His pieces of chicken are falling off of him. He's

0:39:21.280 --> 0:39:25.160
<v Speaker 1>shaking beer. He's just in Corday's weird. So fortunately, Oleg

0:39:25.200 --> 0:39:27.200
<v Speaker 1>finally heard a truck going in the right direction, so

0:39:27.239 --> 0:39:30.080
<v Speaker 1>he stuck out a thumb and caught another ride back

0:39:30.160 --> 0:39:32.960
<v Speaker 1>to cover the sixteen miles. He would have never made

0:39:33.000 --> 0:39:35.000
<v Speaker 1>it on his own. Now, this is a true story.

0:39:35.040 --> 0:39:38.040
<v Speaker 1>He tried to In order to convince the truck driver

0:39:38.160 --> 0:39:40.279
<v Speaker 1>to step in the middle of nowhere, Oleg told the

0:39:40.320 --> 0:39:42.560
<v Speaker 1>truck driver that he had an appointment to have sex

0:39:42.640 --> 0:39:46.640
<v Speaker 1>in the woods, and the driver agreed. Obviously, the driver

0:39:46.719 --> 0:39:49.560
<v Speaker 1>didn't look at his corduroy pants, because everybody knows you

0:39:49.640 --> 0:39:53.000
<v Speaker 1>can't have sex in the woods with courterory pants.

0:39:53.320 --> 0:39:55.400
<v Speaker 2>I guess that is a good a good way to

0:39:55.520 --> 0:39:58.680
<v Speaker 2>just sort of be like, hey, we're in the middle

0:39:58.680 --> 0:39:59.840
<v Speaker 2>of nowhere, but I need to get out of your

0:39:59.840 --> 0:40:03.720
<v Speaker 2>t rock, Like what could you get? Is there any other.

0:40:03.920 --> 0:40:06.239
<v Speaker 1>Good excuses that I would get to be like, I

0:40:06.280 --> 0:40:08.759
<v Speaker 1>am so sorry. Listen, dude, I was planning on robbing you,

0:40:08.800 --> 0:40:11.000
<v Speaker 1>but I've changed my mind. Leave me off here, you

0:40:11.040 --> 0:40:13.120
<v Speaker 1>know one of these which they might get you shot.

0:40:13.440 --> 0:40:13.879
<v Speaker 1>I don't know.

0:40:14.440 --> 0:40:17.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm a botanist. And there's like a really rare plant

0:40:17.480 --> 0:40:18.040
<v Speaker 2>over here.

0:40:19.280 --> 0:40:21.799
<v Speaker 1>What is that called the fucking autobun Society. It's like,

0:40:21.840 --> 0:40:23.920
<v Speaker 1>if I don't fucking catch his bird, I'm gonna be

0:40:23.920 --> 0:40:26.400
<v Speaker 1>the embarrassment, you understand. And the truck driver, being a

0:40:26.440 --> 0:40:29.719
<v Speaker 1>fellow autobund Society member, was like, say no more. The

0:40:29.760 --> 0:40:33.239
<v Speaker 1>problem is getting him to go away. Me posted here's

0:40:33.239 --> 0:40:37.680
<v Speaker 1>my number. So Olegg swatted mosquitos and swig from his

0:40:37.719 --> 0:40:41.800
<v Speaker 1>beer once he finally got there, And finally he's waiting

0:40:41.840 --> 0:40:44.880
<v Speaker 1>on the spot where his two cars pull up and

0:40:44.920 --> 0:40:47.560
<v Speaker 1>his rescuers jumped out. Now there was a price to

0:40:47.600 --> 0:40:49.719
<v Speaker 1>see only one man and not the whole family as

0:40:49.719 --> 0:40:51.920
<v Speaker 1>they had plan for. But they opened the trunk for

0:40:52.000 --> 0:40:54.600
<v Speaker 1>ole Egg and he dove inside and they rebbed the engines,

0:40:54.880 --> 0:40:57.600
<v Speaker 1>and now ole Egg was finally racing towards the border.

0:40:57.960 --> 0:40:59.600
<v Speaker 1>Now in the trunk, he had a bottle of water,

0:40:59.680 --> 0:41:02.239
<v Speaker 1>setups for his children which he's not gonna use now,

0:41:02.320 --> 0:41:05.640
<v Speaker 1>and a spacelanket. They also knew that the Soviet scanned

0:41:05.680 --> 0:41:09.040
<v Speaker 1>cars with infrared cameras at the finished border, so they

0:41:09.120 --> 0:41:12.160
<v Speaker 1>hoped that the metallic space blanket would hide Olegg from

0:41:12.200 --> 0:41:14.640
<v Speaker 1>the cameras and allow them to pass through. Did they

0:41:14.680 --> 0:41:17.680
<v Speaker 1>do any fucking tests on it, like they were hoping,

0:41:18.719 --> 0:41:19.640
<v Speaker 1>you were, Lily.

0:41:19.960 --> 0:41:23.080
<v Speaker 2>Here's like some plastic cell aphane wrapped yourself in this.

0:41:23.680 --> 0:41:25.200
<v Speaker 1>Chew on these ice cubes. That's going to make it

0:41:25.239 --> 0:41:29.840
<v Speaker 1>bring your body temperature down. So the sedatives were OLiS

0:41:29.840 --> 0:41:33.000
<v Speaker 1>first moved. He pounded them, and fortunately they also gave

0:41:33.080 --> 0:41:35.880
<v Speaker 1>him an empty jug for a piss. Now, over the

0:41:35.880 --> 0:41:38.840
<v Speaker 1>next half hour, from the darkness of the trunk, Oleg

0:41:38.880 --> 0:41:41.480
<v Speaker 1>felt them stop at four different Soviet checkpoints on the

0:41:41.480 --> 0:41:43.399
<v Speaker 1>way to the border. They all seem to be quick

0:41:43.440 --> 0:41:47.080
<v Speaker 1>conversations while the drivers and the passengers showed papers, but

0:41:47.120 --> 0:41:48.960
<v Speaker 1>they kept music playing in the car radios and it

0:41:49.000 --> 0:41:51.280
<v Speaker 1>seemed like they were doing just fine. Now, the fifth

0:41:51.320 --> 0:41:54.160
<v Speaker 1>stop is when it gets tricky. Oh boy, the engine

0:41:54.320 --> 0:41:57.239
<v Speaker 1>switched off and all they could hear voices They had

0:41:57.239 --> 0:42:00.840
<v Speaker 1>reached customs. Olig heard the officers talking and men with

0:42:01.000 --> 0:42:04.280
<v Speaker 1>dogs circling the cars. Now one of the British officers

0:42:04.320 --> 0:42:07.440
<v Speaker 1>started feeding chips to the dogs while another complained with

0:42:07.440 --> 0:42:10.760
<v Speaker 1>a Soviet official about the annoyance of students in Moscow.

0:42:11.239 --> 0:42:12.880
<v Speaker 1>That was it, That was like, what did I like

0:42:12.920 --> 0:42:14.759
<v Speaker 1>it that they found his one niche thing that he

0:42:14.800 --> 0:42:17.760
<v Speaker 1>loves to complain about, So yeah, I can go. So finally,

0:42:17.800 --> 0:42:20.360
<v Speaker 1>after what felt like an hour, the British officers climbed

0:42:20.400 --> 0:42:23.080
<v Speaker 1>back inside the car, crossed from the highway to a

0:42:23.120 --> 0:42:27.719
<v Speaker 1>dirt hole on They didn't just check the trunk nope, huh,

0:42:27.800 --> 0:42:30.440
<v Speaker 1>because the British bis were just like, hey, fuck is students?

0:42:30.440 --> 0:42:32.520
<v Speaker 1>Am I right? They were both from like, I don't know,

0:42:32.560 --> 0:42:35.680
<v Speaker 1>benson Hurst, Brooklyn in this scenario. But there was also

0:42:35.719 --> 0:42:38.439
<v Speaker 1>one more thing, which was that the British agents brought

0:42:38.480 --> 0:42:40.480
<v Speaker 1>a baby with them and while the guards were talking

0:42:40.520 --> 0:42:42.799
<v Speaker 1>with the driver, she actually got out and gave the

0:42:42.840 --> 0:42:45.440
<v Speaker 1>baby a diaper change on the trunk of the car.

0:42:45.880 --> 0:42:49.239
<v Speaker 1>So the Soviet guards was just like, I don't like

0:42:49.320 --> 0:42:51.440
<v Speaker 1>a baby, this is poop. I don't like to do this.

0:42:51.920 --> 0:42:54.120
<v Speaker 1>So they didn't even make them open it. What So

0:42:54.480 --> 0:42:56.319
<v Speaker 1>they managed to talk their way out of it by

0:42:56.320 --> 0:42:59.200
<v Speaker 1>complaining about students in Moscow and by feeding chips to

0:42:59.239 --> 0:43:03.560
<v Speaker 1>the dogs. All right, So finally, after all this tension,

0:43:03.680 --> 0:43:06.200
<v Speaker 1>they're in a dirt road and they finally come to

0:43:06.239 --> 0:43:09.239
<v Speaker 1>a stop outside a stand of pine trees. When the

0:43:09.320 --> 0:43:12.759
<v Speaker 1>truck open, Olegg was met by the friendly face of

0:43:12.840 --> 0:43:16.440
<v Speaker 1>his English handler. He had just escaped the KGB. Yay,

0:43:16.880 --> 0:43:20.760
<v Speaker 1>good for you, but he had left his family behind.

0:43:23.080 --> 0:43:25.480
<v Speaker 2>There's some aspect to a lot of these guys that's

0:43:26.120 --> 0:43:27.399
<v Speaker 2>somewhat psychopathic.

0:43:30.719 --> 0:43:34.000
<v Speaker 1>So because it was successful, Operation Piblico is remembered as

0:43:34.040 --> 0:43:35.919
<v Speaker 1>one of the most daring escapes of the Cold War.

0:43:36.320 --> 0:43:39.280
<v Speaker 1>A lot of other KGB defectors died trying to escape,

0:43:39.360 --> 0:43:42.319
<v Speaker 1>so it's kind of a miracle. Like truly, the Gordyaevsky

0:43:42.440 --> 0:43:45.360
<v Speaker 1>got out. Ever since he's basically spent the rest of

0:43:45.400 --> 0:43:48.759
<v Speaker 1>his life trying not to get killed by KGB assassins.

0:43:49.200 --> 0:43:53.000
<v Speaker 1>Now six wasn't surprised, of course, Like one officer said,

0:43:53.080 --> 0:43:56.279
<v Speaker 1>he made absolute fools of the KGB. The only way

0:43:56.320 --> 0:43:57.920
<v Speaker 1>that they did have to get back at him was

0:43:57.960 --> 0:44:02.080
<v Speaker 1>to hold his family hostage, started lobbying world leaders asking

0:44:02.080 --> 0:44:04.319
<v Speaker 1>them for help. He even flew to the US and

0:44:04.360 --> 0:44:06.160
<v Speaker 1>he went to the White House where he met with

0:44:06.200 --> 0:44:08.399
<v Speaker 1>President Reagan and he asked for the US to get

0:44:08.400 --> 0:44:09.040
<v Speaker 1>his kids back.

0:44:09.239 --> 0:44:13.720
<v Speaker 2>This is also a fascinating moment in the Able Archer

0:44:13.840 --> 0:44:19.120
<v Speaker 2>story because in the run up to the Able Archer conflict,

0:44:19.480 --> 0:44:25.320
<v Speaker 2>ol Gordievski was trying to tell his Soviet handlers that guys,

0:44:25.719 --> 0:44:28.120
<v Speaker 2>there's crazy tension between the East and the West, but

0:44:28.160 --> 0:44:30.600
<v Speaker 2>they're not trying to nuke you. They're not planning to

0:44:30.680 --> 0:44:33.640
<v Speaker 2>nuke you. When he went to talk to Reagan, he

0:44:33.719 --> 0:44:39.040
<v Speaker 2>actually was also trying to take credit for avoiding nuclear

0:44:39.120 --> 0:44:42.800
<v Speaker 2>conflict to some extent by saying, like, look, I helped

0:44:42.920 --> 0:44:47.040
<v Speaker 2>avoid you know, a nuclear holocaust during Able Archer because

0:44:47.080 --> 0:44:50.200
<v Speaker 2>I was telling both sides the right thing. And that's

0:44:50.239 --> 0:44:54.399
<v Speaker 2>another reason why you should really think about helping me, right,

0:44:54.440 --> 0:44:56.759
<v Speaker 2>And it was it was pretty good leverage, Like it

0:44:57.080 --> 0:44:59.080
<v Speaker 2>was a good story that he that he told. And

0:44:59.280 --> 0:45:03.040
<v Speaker 2>but what's fast from a historical standpoint is, like, you know,

0:45:03.120 --> 0:45:06.280
<v Speaker 2>a lot of historians relied on his account of Able Archer.

0:45:07.360 --> 0:45:10.200
<v Speaker 1>Information came from him of what the Russians, well.

0:45:10.120 --> 0:45:13.120
<v Speaker 2>Just you know, his his narrative of what was happening

0:45:13.120 --> 0:45:16.480
<v Speaker 2>at that time was was sort of an important part

0:45:16.520 --> 0:45:19.839
<v Speaker 2>of the historical record. But it's also you can now

0:45:19.960 --> 0:45:24.520
<v Speaker 2>understand the deep conflict of interest in like, of course

0:45:24.560 --> 0:45:29.480
<v Speaker 2>it behooves him to uh to bolster his own role

0:45:30.040 --> 0:45:34.000
<v Speaker 2>in the able Archer crisis, because now it's a reason

0:45:34.040 --> 0:45:36.600
<v Speaker 2>to help get his family out of out of Russia.

0:45:37.000 --> 0:45:39.520
<v Speaker 2>He can like put you know, he can tell foreign

0:45:39.560 --> 0:45:42.360
<v Speaker 2>leaders like, look, I helped save the world, now you

0:45:42.440 --> 0:45:44.000
<v Speaker 2>need to help me get my family.

0:45:43.719 --> 0:45:47.160
<v Speaker 1>Out, like it's a it might be an unreliable area, yeah,

0:45:47.160 --> 0:45:50.480
<v Speaker 1>sort of, yeah, exactly. If it was true, then it's

0:45:50.560 --> 0:45:54.840
<v Speaker 1>it was a great detriment to the easing of tensions

0:45:54.840 --> 0:45:56.719
<v Speaker 1>that you lost the like one of the only guys

0:45:56.719 --> 0:45:59.160
<v Speaker 1>in the room being like, guys, nobody's fucking fighting, You're good,

0:45:59.200 --> 0:46:00.000
<v Speaker 1>everybody's okay.

0:46:00.200 --> 0:46:00.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:46:01.000 --> 0:46:04.120
<v Speaker 1>Unfortunately he had to go to Britain to chill. So

0:46:04.520 --> 0:46:07.000
<v Speaker 1>in the years since after he went to talk to Reagan,

0:46:07.400 --> 0:46:09.520
<v Speaker 1>Olig had been in hiding and he has lived in

0:46:09.640 --> 0:46:12.440
<v Speaker 1>safe houses and had to keep watch for Russian assassination

0:46:12.520 --> 0:46:15.719
<v Speaker 1>at tempts ever since. But there is one bright spot though.

0:46:15.800 --> 0:46:18.480
<v Speaker 1>In nineteen ninety one, when the Russian government was in turmoil,

0:46:18.880 --> 0:46:21.560
<v Speaker 1>new leadership stepped in and looking to make amends with

0:46:21.600 --> 0:46:24.399
<v Speaker 1>the western world, they finally let Laila and the girls go.

0:46:24.880 --> 0:46:28.920
<v Speaker 1>They reunited with Oleg that September. Three months after Oleg

0:46:28.920 --> 0:46:31.800
<v Speaker 1>and his family got back together, the Soviet Union collapsed.

0:46:32.040 --> 0:46:47.600
<v Speaker 1>So in the end, tickle tickle one. Yeah, anyway, that's

0:46:47.640 --> 0:46:50.640
<v Speaker 1>our story. Ed, thank you so much for being a

0:46:50.640 --> 0:46:54.000
<v Speaker 1>part of it, man, and thanks for so many interesting

0:46:54.040 --> 0:46:56.279
<v Speaker 1>details of it. I didn't know that the conversation with

0:46:56.360 --> 0:46:58.839
<v Speaker 1>Reagan was because a big part of it was.

0:46:59.360 --> 0:47:02.200
<v Speaker 2>It was part of the color of that conversation.

0:47:01.880 --> 0:47:04.319
<v Speaker 1>One hundred percent. I want to talk about snap Fu

0:47:04.400 --> 0:47:05.839
<v Speaker 1>for a second too, if you don't mind.

0:47:06.200 --> 0:47:09.200
<v Speaker 2>So. Season one is the story of Able Archer eighty three,

0:47:09.280 --> 0:47:12.480
<v Speaker 2>which was an event in nineteen eighty three. It was

0:47:12.560 --> 0:47:15.319
<v Speaker 2>the height of the Cold War, and there was so

0:47:15.520 --> 0:47:19.560
<v Speaker 2>much tension between the United States or NATO and the

0:47:19.560 --> 0:47:25.640
<v Speaker 2>Soviet Union that this Able Archer exercise, which by any

0:47:25.719 --> 0:47:29.640
<v Speaker 2>other measure was just a normal military exercise, was suddenly

0:47:29.640 --> 0:47:34.680
<v Speaker 2>getting interpreted by the Soviets as possible staging for a

0:47:34.719 --> 0:47:38.600
<v Speaker 2>real nuclear attack, and basically there was this kind of

0:47:38.640 --> 0:47:45.720
<v Speaker 2>like Domino reciprocating spiral of fear and outrage and misunderstandings

0:47:45.719 --> 0:47:46.880
<v Speaker 2>and miscommunications.

0:47:47.440 --> 0:47:49.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, listeners should go to it because it gives such

0:47:49.840 --> 0:47:52.400
<v Speaker 1>rich context while also being quite funny and entertaining and

0:47:52.440 --> 0:47:53.120
<v Speaker 1>fucking scary.

0:47:53.520 --> 0:47:57.040
<v Speaker 2>It's such a cool story. Thank you for having me

0:47:57.160 --> 0:47:59.160
<v Speaker 2>on to talk about this awesome man.

0:47:59.320 --> 0:48:01.560
<v Speaker 1>Well, listen. I can't wait to hear your band play

0:48:01.640 --> 0:48:03.839
<v Speaker 1>and to watch you in whatever awesome movie or show

0:48:03.880 --> 0:48:06.520
<v Speaker 1>you steal next, and I can't wait to listen to

0:48:06.560 --> 0:48:09.120
<v Speaker 1>more snafu Okay. Season two is out now and season

0:48:09.160 --> 0:48:12.160
<v Speaker 1>three is coming soon. Right, I appreciate you coming in, brother,

0:48:12.440 --> 0:48:13.120
<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much.

0:48:13.280 --> 0:48:16.200
<v Speaker 2>Thank you Arturo. You're so awesome at what you do.

0:48:16.360 --> 0:48:17.160
<v Speaker 1>Keep doing it.

0:48:17.200 --> 0:48:17.759
<v Speaker 2>Thanks a lot.

0:48:17.800 --> 0:48:25.480
<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much later, brother. Bye. Brady's Escapes is

0:48:25.480 --> 0:48:28.680
<v Speaker 1>a production of iHeartRadio and Film Nation Entertainment in association

0:48:28.840 --> 0:48:32.000
<v Speaker 1>with Gilded Audio. Our executive producers from me Ar Turo

0:48:32.080 --> 0:48:35.320
<v Speaker 1>Castro Alyssa Martino and Milan Papelka from Film Nation Entertainment,

0:48:35.600 --> 0:48:38.720
<v Speaker 1>Andrew Chug and Witning Donaldson from Gilded Audio, and Dylan

0:48:38.719 --> 0:48:41.880
<v Speaker 1>Fagan from iHeartRadio. The show is produced and edited by

0:48:41.960 --> 0:48:44.759
<v Speaker 1>Carl Nellis and Ben Chubb, who are also, respectively, our

0:48:44.800 --> 0:48:48.560
<v Speaker 1>research overlord and music overlord. Our associate producer is Tory Smith,

0:48:48.600 --> 0:48:51.880
<v Speaker 1>who's our other overlord. Nick Dooley is our technical director.

0:48:51.920 --> 0:48:55.600
<v Speaker 1>Additional editing by Whitney Donaldson. Special thanks to Alison Cohen,

0:48:55.719 --> 0:48:59.720
<v Speaker 1>Dan Welsh, Ben Riizek, Sarah Joyner, Nicki Stein, Olivia Canny

0:48:59.800 --> 0:49:02.840
<v Speaker 1>and Kelsey. All Right, Hey, thank you so much for listening,

0:49:02.840 --> 0:49:05.040
<v Speaker 1>and if you're enjoying the show, please drop a rating

0:49:05.120 --> 0:49:07.480
<v Speaker 1>or review. My mom will call you each personally and

0:49:07.560 --> 0:49:13.879
<v Speaker 1>thank you, and we'll see you all next week