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Speaker 1: All right, guys, welcome back to another episode of Cutting

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Speaker 1: the Distance podcast. This week, we have a very special

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Speaker 1: guest sitting across from my good buddy, Clay Hayes. I

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Speaker 1: mean beautiful Boise, Idaho. It's a little different scenery for Clay.

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Speaker 1: You live in northern north central Idaho.

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Speaker 2: Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: So Clay Hayes, let me introduce you to him. If

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Speaker 1: you have been living in a under a rock for

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Speaker 1: the last few years. Clay, I've been following him for years.

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Speaker 1: He makes primitive bows, self bows. He's been putting out

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Speaker 1: all sorts of like videos and content for I don't know,

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Speaker 1: probably over a decade, easily over a decade. The man

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Speaker 1: lives off the land. To my dismay, here, a couple

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Speaker 1: of years ago, I'm watching TV and I see season

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Speaker 1: eight of Alone coming on, and they're showing the people

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Speaker 1: on it, and I see Clay on there. I was like,

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Speaker 1: oh man, these other suckers don't have a chance. So

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Speaker 1: I was so excited to watch that. So Clay competed

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Speaker 1: on Alone, the TV series popular TV series Alone, and

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Speaker 1: end up winning the whole dang thing. So that was

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Speaker 1: that was crazy. So give us a little more background Clay.

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Speaker 1: How did you start building bows? What what made you

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Speaker 1: go building bows and kind of just learn how to

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Speaker 1: do that, live off the grid type lifestyle and and

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Speaker 1: you know, bushcraft type stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for me, it was just always part of my interests.

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Speaker 2: I think it's part of the same thing that draws

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Speaker 2: you to hunting draws me to hunting. It's just something

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Speaker 2: that's in us that you that you can't quite put

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Speaker 2: your finger on, you know. And I've always been drawn

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Speaker 2: to archery and all types of hunting and just the

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Speaker 2: way I differ. And I think a lot of people

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Speaker 2: are like that when they're young, you know, they they're

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Speaker 2: they're interested in various things, but then they kind of

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Speaker 2: grow out of it. I just never grew out of it.

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Speaker 2: It just got you know, eventually I got to the

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Speaker 2: point where I could make a living doing it, even

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Speaker 2: though that wasn't part of the plan to start with.

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Speaker 2: It just kind of happened. So I kept making bows,

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Speaker 2: kept doing the survival bushcraft type thing, and eventually find

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Speaker 2: myself here or I'm that's why I do for a living.

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Speaker 1: By some miracle man. I love that It's great. I

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Speaker 1: feel like it's so euthentic when people follow the things

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Speaker 1: that they love, you know, Like I remember as a

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Speaker 1: kid starting now with archer, you know, we build built

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Speaker 1: bowst out a cedar, limbs and fishing fishing line right,

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Speaker 1: you know, and and you know, as soon as I

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Speaker 1: could get my hands on a bow, I wanted one.

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Speaker 1: And it's awesome to see you like start from from

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Speaker 1: just the love of archery, and then you just go

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Speaker 1: compounds and continues throughout your life. And and it you

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Speaker 1: don't do it for fame or fortune. You did it

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Speaker 1: because you like it, you love it. It's just who

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Speaker 1: you are. Yeah. I think that's what I admire most

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Speaker 1: about about you is it's just you just do it

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Speaker 1: because that's who you are.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And if I had you know, like I said,

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Speaker 2: this wasn't part of the plan. I didn't really have

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Speaker 2: a plan. And if if I had had a plan

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Speaker 2: and I was like my goal was to make a

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Speaker 2: living doing this stuff, I probably would have never stuck

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Speaker 2: with it, because you know, I did this stuff for

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Speaker 2: a long time. I made YouTube videos for a long

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Speaker 2: time before I ever made any money at all, And

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Speaker 2: I was just doing it because I like doing it.

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Speaker 2: You know. I was teaching people how to make bows

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Speaker 2: through videos on YouTube. That's why I started. But I

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Speaker 2: like the bow make and I like the making the videos,

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Speaker 2: like the process of that creative process, and I was

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Speaker 2: good at it, and so that's why I did it.

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Speaker 2: And like I said, somehow just ended up making money

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Speaker 2: and that grew enough to where I could support my family.

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Speaker 2: And I was a wildlife biologist for Ido Fishing Game

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Speaker 2: for ten years while I was you know, doing YouTube

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Speaker 2: videos as well, and ended up taking off from that

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Speaker 2: in twenty seventeen and we've been doing this ever since. Wow. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's awesome.

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Speaker 1: I remember watching one of your videos. You were when

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Speaker 1: you were working for the Fishing Game and you were

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Speaker 1: floating down a remote stream. Oh yeah, and you were

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Speaker 1: checking some kind of collars, Like I think I was

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Speaker 1: picking up wolf collars or elk collars, one or the other. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I can't remember what kind of colors it was, but

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Speaker 1: I was familiar with the stream. I was like, man,

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Speaker 1: that looks awesome. But it wasn't like you were going

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Speaker 1: down to there during white water season. It was looked

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Speaker 1: pretty low.

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Speaker 2: It was really low. I was scrubbing my fight on

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Speaker 2: the bottom of the rocks pretty much the whole time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that was awesome. Well, you know the reason I

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Speaker 1: had you come on today is you're a longtime LK hunter.

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Speaker 1: I'm a long time elk hunter, and I think you know,

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Speaker 1: after you talk to a lot of folks that are

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Speaker 1: successful in the field over the years, and a lot

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Speaker 1: of people do it differently. At face value, you look

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Speaker 1: at how they hunt and it's like kind of at

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Speaker 1: face value, it looks different. But you sit down and

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Speaker 1: have a conversation and you start seeing like these little

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Speaker 1: little nuances that kind of cross paths, you know, in tactics.

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Speaker 1: And so today I want to kind of talk about

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Speaker 1: tactics for September elk season and beyond. We get a

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Speaker 1: lot of a lot of questions at PHELPS, whether it's

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Speaker 1: on social media or what and you guys can always

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Speaker 1: message us. You can send us a message in email

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Speaker 1: and it's the email is c t D at Phelps

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Speaker 1: Game Calls dot com. And we'll answer your question here

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Speaker 1: on the air best we can. And we have this

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Speaker 1: new thing I'm just starting here, and we have a

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Speaker 1: super secret phone number that you call into and you

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Speaker 1: can call in and leave a message. Your message has

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Speaker 1: to be under three minutes because if it's over three minutes,

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Speaker 1: it'll cut you off. But the phone number is two

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Speaker 1: Await two one seven seven zero one and call in,

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Speaker 1: leave a message with your question, and we'll play it

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Speaker 1: on the line on the air here and we'll do

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Speaker 1: our best to answer it. Whether it's me or Jason

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Speaker 1: or maybe one of our guests. Anyway, we'll get back

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Speaker 1: into the conversation. So we I've get some questions, and

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Speaker 1: here's one. This is obviously from someone who hunts Utah,

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Speaker 1: and the question is what kind of calling tactics would

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Speaker 1: you use in early season Utah? And I'm not personally,

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Speaker 1: I'm not real familiar with the exact dates in Utah,

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Speaker 1: but I know archery ELK opens in most units mid

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Speaker 1: August and then it runs through mid September, I think

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Speaker 1: for for archery, and you know, what would your tactics

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Speaker 1: be on that in that August time frame? Opener. I've

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Speaker 1: never hunted that season myself, But if you were to say,

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Speaker 1: all right, I'm going to Utah tomorrow, because here we are,

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Speaker 1: it's well, it's not even it's like the beginning of

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Speaker 1: so okay, I'm gonna go to Utah in two weeks.

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Speaker 1: What kind of tactics do you think you're gonna use

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Speaker 1: Are you gonna be doing a lot of calling?

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Speaker 2: Well, I've never hunted down there like you. I've never

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Speaker 2: hunted that, you know, pre September, but I have hunted

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Speaker 2: pre rut int, you know, in Idaho. And if that,

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Speaker 2: I probably hunt probably very different than than you guys do.

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Speaker 2: If they're not talking, I'm not out there trying to

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Speaker 2: make something bugle, I'm not talking a lot myself. I

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Speaker 2: do a lot of just sitting on hills, glass and

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Speaker 2: trying to find where they're at. And then I still

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Speaker 2: hunt a lot. But like I said, I my objectives

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Speaker 2: are probably different in years. I hunt with primitive bow

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Speaker 2: and arrow, and so I don't limit myself to you know,

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Speaker 2: trophy animals or anything. I'm just trying to kill an

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Speaker 2: elk because the opportunity I have to get super close

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Speaker 2: and the opportunities to get that close, you know, have

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Speaker 2: to take the opportunities that I that I get. And

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Speaker 2: sometimes that's a cow and I'm if I shoot a cow,

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Speaker 2: I'm stoked. And so I'll sit on a ridge and

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Speaker 2: I'll glass the opposite faces. I'll try to find where

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Speaker 2: they're feeding. I get into like the freshest sign that

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Speaker 2: I can get into and I just still hunt my

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Speaker 2: way through those feeding areas when they're actively feeding early morning,

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Speaker 2: late evening type stuff. And if I'm hunting in an

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Speaker 2: area where they're hitting up wallows at that time, I'll

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Speaker 2: be sitting on a wallow, especially midday, early afternoon something

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Speaker 2: like that. So as far as calling goes, I'm not

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Speaker 2: doing much of it, unless sometimes I'll I'll do really

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Speaker 2: like cow calls if I'm still hunting and I can't

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Speaker 2: avoid making noise. If I have to make noise, I'll

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Speaker 2: calcohol just to let them know or make them think

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Speaker 2: that I'm an elk. I'm not trying to call anything

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Speaker 2: to me at that time of years, in.

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Speaker 1: Other words, trying to disguise your movements.

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 1: Ye. Now, for some of our listeners that may be

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Speaker 1: new to hunting, can you break down what still hunting

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Speaker 1: is all about? What? What's how do you still hunt?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, that's a great question. So for me, and

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Speaker 2: I've been still hunting, you know for a long time.

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Speaker 2: I started still hunting when I still living in Florida

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Speaker 2: and in Mississippi. I went to grad school Inssissippi. I

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Speaker 2: still hunt white tails on the ground with a bow,

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Speaker 2: And basically what I'm doing is I'm picking out a

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Speaker 2: likely area where they're going to be feeding around, and

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Speaker 2: I'm just really slowly slipping my way through there, trying

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Speaker 2: to see an animal or detect an animal some now

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Speaker 2: before they know I'm there. And so a lot of

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Speaker 2: times you're standing still. You know, you're standing still more

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Speaker 2: than you're walking, but you're you're moving, you know, you're

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Speaker 2: it's it's and that's how it differs from sitting in

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Speaker 2: a tree stands your You're mobile. But I'm not just

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Speaker 2: like walking through the woods. You know, I'm stop and

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Speaker 2: look and listening, observe and again trying to find that

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Speaker 2: animal before they find me. And then once I find

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Speaker 2: that animal, then I'm it moves from still hunting to stalking.

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Speaker 2: You know, you're trying to figure out how you can

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Speaker 2: get in position so that animal comes to you, or

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Speaker 2: maybe if in the case of elk, where you've got

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Speaker 2: where you can move a little bit more, say versus

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Speaker 2: white tails, you know, you maybe actively stalking that animal,

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Speaker 2: like actively trying to get close enough to the animal.

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Speaker 2: And that's last year and I didn't I didn't kill

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Speaker 2: one d an archery season last year, but the year before.

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Speaker 2: That's how I killed the cow that I killed. I

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Speaker 2: was just still hunting through an a likely spot of

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Speaker 2: feeding cover and saw her and there was just a

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Speaker 2: little bit of topography between us, and was able to

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Speaker 2: just wait till she had her head down feeding and

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Speaker 2: I would move, wait till she went behind a bush,

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Speaker 2: I would move, and I would just the whole time,

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Speaker 2: I'm just cutting the distance, getting a little bit closer,

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Speaker 2: a little bit closer, ended up getting within twenty five

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Speaker 2: yards ever, and wait until she turned broadside, was able

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Speaker 2: to get a good shot on her.

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Speaker 1: I in my mind, as you're describing that, I'm picturing you.

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Speaker 1: But then I keep I picture like a mountain lion.

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Speaker 2: It's the same thing. So I'm that's what I'm that's

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Speaker 2: what I'm targeting, is trying is behaving basically like a

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Speaker 2: mountain lion.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, So basically, get up high, do

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Speaker 1: a lot of glass, and try to locate your game first,

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Speaker 1: you know, try to find your elk first, and then okay,

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Speaker 1: I see where they're at. They're over on this other hillside.

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Speaker 1: Then quickly quietly move over there and then slow way

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Speaker 1: down and then work your way through that area.

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Speaker 2: When when you can, when you can glass them and

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Speaker 2: get there within a reasonable amount of time, that's good.

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Speaker 2: But oftentimes you can't do that because you know they're

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Speaker 2: in the mornings, they're they're on their way up to

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Speaker 2: their bedding area, and so to start over here across

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Speaker 2: the valley and get over here and get above them

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Speaker 2: without spooking them, you just you can't do that, at

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Speaker 2: least in the country that I hunt. And so a

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Speaker 2: lot of times what I'll do is I'll I'll glass

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Speaker 2: them up one day, maybe in the evening or something

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Speaker 2: like that, and then I the next day, I'm there.

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Speaker 2: I'm where they where I expect them to be, so

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to be there before they get there. Sometimes work.

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Speaker 1: Then okay, yeah, yeah, I get it all right. Well,

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Speaker 1: so I would probably approach that season the same way. Usually,

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Speaker 1: my my easy answer when people ask me that is like, well,

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Speaker 1: I just go ahead and wait two weeks and I

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Speaker 1: don't go. I wouldn't go till probably September first, because

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Speaker 1: my my olk hunting is typically very calling heavy, like

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Speaker 1: you talked about. But if I was kind of pushed

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Speaker 1: into a corner, was like, well, this is your only shot.

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Speaker 1: You got this the opening week or or you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe have a long weekend. You know, I would I

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Speaker 1: would probably do something along those similar lines. I would,

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Speaker 1: you know, try to glass and try to find them

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Speaker 1: first and then dial it in from there. I'm still hunting,

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Speaker 1: you know, growing up in North Idaho, white tail hunting

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Speaker 1: with a rifle. I've done a ton of still hunting

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Speaker 1: as a young young guy, and I still do when

246
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Speaker 1: I when I can, and and up there, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'd always try to find a heavy stand of timber,

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Speaker 1: you know, kind of that fringe area between where they

249
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Speaker 1: feed through and then where they go bed down, and

250
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Speaker 1: then I would just still hunt through there in the

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Speaker 1: early morning light. And uh and like you say, you

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Speaker 1: have to move slow, so you're doing more standing than

253
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Speaker 1: than moving. And then and when I move, I don't

254
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Speaker 1: move quickly. I move real slow to where I want

255
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Speaker 1: to see that deer before he sees me or she

256
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Speaker 1: sees me.

257
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Speaker 2: What everything hinges on is And that's why you have

258
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Speaker 2: it's so important that you move so slowly because you're

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Speaker 2: you're much more likely to see those deer, you know,

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Speaker 2: if you're stationary and they're moving. And that's that's another

261
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Speaker 2: reason why it's important to to get into an area

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Speaker 2: where they're going to be feeding, because when like still

263
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Speaker 2: hunting through a betting area where when they're betted is

264
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Speaker 2: like almost impossible, right because the only thing that they

265
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Speaker 2: have to focus on when they're betted is watching for you,

266
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Speaker 2: and they're stationary yep. So but if you can, if

267
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Speaker 2: you can get them, if you can find them, whether

268
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Speaker 2: they're up feeding or transitioning or something like that, then

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Speaker 2: it's very doable. Especially with elk.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and you know it's not an elk, but

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Speaker 1: white tail dose they've got ice. They will I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever had had anything picked me

273
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Speaker 1: off so easily as a white tail dough maybe turkeys.

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Speaker 1: But they will see you. I was, you know, and

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Speaker 1: like I was talking about, I kind of get in

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Speaker 1: that fringe area. But then I won't enter the betting area.

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Speaker 1: I'll sit down at the edge of it and maybe

278
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Speaker 1: I'll do some calling. So this will be like during

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Speaker 1: the rut, for instance, So I would probably do the

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Speaker 1: same thing, you know, without calls. I'd get close to it,

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Speaker 1: like well, I think they might even be betted in here.

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Speaker 1: Maybe I'll just sit down and make a few quiet

283
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Speaker 1: calls just for a little curiosity. Maybe one I'll get

284
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Speaker 1: out of the bed and kind of wander over to me.

285
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Speaker 1: I've done that with deer a lot. You get to

286
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Speaker 1: the edge of that bedding area and do some grunts

287
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Speaker 1: or some bleats, and pretty soon there's a buck standing

288
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Speaker 1: there looking at you. But I've had dose come walking by,

289
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Speaker 1: and I had a pair of boots that had really

290
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Speaker 1: bright yellow soles. There were some they were some pack

291
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Speaker 1: boots I had, and I'm sitting on my button. I'm

292
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Speaker 1: wearing camo, and I'm blending in pretty good, but my

293
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Speaker 1: feet are sitting up and then the bottom some of

294
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Speaker 1: my my shoe soles are just glowing like beacons. And man,

295
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Speaker 1: that white tailed dough walked over there and she immediately

296
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Speaker 1: saw those boots and ran off. So that's fun. So

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Speaker 1: I would say the next part of September to talk

298
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Speaker 1: about would be like September one through the tenth or so.

299
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Speaker 1: Do your tactics change it all there?

300
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Speaker 2: Maybe our seasons like when the rut gets kicked off.

301
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Speaker 2: For me, in my experience anyway, has been super variable.

302
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Speaker 2: Like I've been down where we're hunting now and i

303
00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:21,840
Speaker 2: haven't seen any rutting activity till like the eighth or

304
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Speaker 2: ninth of September, like no rubs, no nothing. And then

305
00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:28,600
Speaker 2: I've been down there on the first and they're just

306
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Speaker 2: going nuts. Uh, And so I just go and I

307
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Speaker 2: basically mirror the elks activity. If they're not talking, if

308
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Speaker 2: they're not rutting, I'm still hunting. I'm class and I'm

309
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Speaker 2: trying to find them. If they're talking, then you know

310
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Speaker 2: what I like to do most often, Like I don't

311
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Speaker 2: do a lot of location locating bugles. I just wait

312
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Speaker 2: for them to give their selves away, and I don't

313
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Speaker 2: say anything until I try to cut the distance. I

314
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Speaker 2: try to get as close as I can, and then

315
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Speaker 2: I might Google at them or something like that. And

316
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Speaker 2: so I'm basically just looking at the elks trying to

317
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Speaker 2: figure out what they're doing, and I just mirror their

318
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Speaker 2: level of activity.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so you don't really want to let announce your

320
00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:23,400
Speaker 1: presence or alert them until you're really close, and then

321
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Speaker 1: now they have a reason to come take a look

322
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Speaker 1: at what's making those calls.

323
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Speaker 2: I mean, if they're I'm I'll I'll throw out some

324
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Speaker 2: location bugles sometimes, especially preed on like in the dark,

325
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Speaker 2: just trying to figure out where they're at. But once

326
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Speaker 2: I know where they're at, I don't I don't tell them.

327
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Speaker 2: I don't talk again until I'm until I figure I'm

328
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Speaker 2: pretty dug on close.

329
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Speaker 1: Okay, Now, what kind of calls once you get real close?

330
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Speaker 1: Are you? Are you ripping bugles? Are you cal calling?

331
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Speaker 1: Or you do a little bit of.

332
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Speaker 2: Both, mostly bugles bugles, And again I'm just I'm just

333
00:17:57,840 --> 00:17:59,920
Speaker 2: mirroring what they're doing. You know, if they're if they're

334
00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:03,600
Speaker 2: wanting to get aggressive, I'll get aggressive with them. And

335
00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,200
Speaker 2: if they're just kind of half hearted bugling, I'll do that.

336
00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:11,040
Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, I like it. That's that's very similar to

337
00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:13,880
Speaker 1: kind of what I do to a degree, So I'll

338
00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:20,040
Speaker 1: do more. I'll usually if it's September first through the tenth,

339
00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:22,359
Speaker 1: I'm covering a lot of country. I may not use

340
00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:25,199
Speaker 1: a lot of glass at that point because a lot

341
00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:27,120
Speaker 1: of times I don't hunt country where you can really

342
00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:30,879
Speaker 1: glass and elcup. You may be surrounded by a whole

343
00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:34,280
Speaker 1: sea or a whole drainage full of conifers and there's

344
00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:36,120
Speaker 1: no opening, so you could never.

345
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:39,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's so heavily dependent. Like when I

346
00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:42,520
Speaker 2: used to hunt North Idaho and it's like what you're

347
00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:45,080
Speaker 2: talking about, it's all a conifer. You can't unless they're

348
00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:47,520
Speaker 2: standing out in a clear cut, you can't see them, right.

349
00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:52,560
Speaker 2: And so in that instance, I'm looking, I'm just visiting

350
00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:56,360
Speaker 2: likely areas trying to find good sign. Once I find

351
00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:59,240
Speaker 2: that good sign, like smoking hot sign, then I'll start

352
00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:01,320
Speaker 2: still hunt through that. If they're not talking for.

353
00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:19,560
Speaker 1: Them, okay, yeah, I'll move through the area and I'll

354
00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:23,440
Speaker 1: do some some bugling for location, and I'll bugle, and

355
00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:26,520
Speaker 1: I'll also add some cow calls. But I found like

356
00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:29,680
Speaker 1: that first of the tenth I get let And this

357
00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:32,080
Speaker 1: is kind of countertuitive to what a lot of people

358
00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:35,280
Speaker 1: may may think is I don't use I don't have

359
00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:39,760
Speaker 1: a lot of responses to cow calls compared to bugles.

360
00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:45,439
Speaker 1: I feel like the bulls aren't that. It's like they know,

361
00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:48,040
Speaker 1: like if there's there's not a lot of bugling going

362
00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:50,640
Speaker 1: on anyway, they know that there's no hot cows. It

363
00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:52,520
Speaker 1: it seems like that bulls kind of know when the

364
00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:55,679
Speaker 1: cows start. I think that that sweet smell goes all

365
00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:58,119
Speaker 1: over the mountains. They can start here, they can start smelling,

366
00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,399
Speaker 1: they can start bugling. But I will say, just like

367
00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:04,720
Speaker 1: you said it could be September first and it's there's

368
00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:07,919
Speaker 1: bulls chasing cows and it's a retfest. And sometimes it's

369
00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:13,520
Speaker 1: September fifteenth and there's none of that going on. I've

370
00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:17,040
Speaker 1: seen I've seen five point bowls with velvet on September

371
00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:20,359
Speaker 1: first before in full velvet. So I think every year

372
00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:23,359
Speaker 1: just it's so different. I think there's a lot of

373
00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:24,160
Speaker 1: variables there.

374
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:29,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, do you have any tactics for Like, I remember

375
00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:32,040
Speaker 2: one of the first years we hunted where we hunt now,

376
00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:36,120
Speaker 2: it's like it's like September eighth or something. I'm still

377
00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:39,320
Speaker 2: seeing bachelor groups of bulls. I mean like four or

378
00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:41,520
Speaker 2: five bulls hanging out together and there's not a cow

379
00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:44,240
Speaker 2: in SIGHTE Like, what do you do in that type

380
00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:44,879
Speaker 2: of situation?

381
00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:48,960
Speaker 1: That makes it super tough? One thing I will say,

382
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,800
Speaker 1: I feel like that early season when bulls are still

383
00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,760
Speaker 1: bachelored up, or maybe they've broke off a little bit,

384
00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:57,399
Speaker 1: but they're still not too far away. Let's say that

385
00:20:57,440 --> 00:20:59,680
Speaker 1: you've got a hillside and every little finger dge has

386
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:01,920
Speaker 1: a bull that's like, I bet he's betting on each

387
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:04,399
Speaker 1: little ridge. There might be four bowls in this in

388
00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:09,080
Speaker 1: this big large ridge system. After they separate, they kind

389
00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:11,800
Speaker 1: of separate a little bit and then kind of space out.

390
00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:17,120
Speaker 1: But I feel like they're pretty territorial still. So what

391
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:18,680
Speaker 1: I want to do is I want to get very

392
00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:21,760
Speaker 1: close to where their betting area is, and that may

393
00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:24,400
Speaker 1: be eleven twelve o'clock in the middle of the day.

394
00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:26,199
Speaker 1: Once i've if I could hear them bugle or if

395
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:29,479
Speaker 1: I could see them, then I'm gonna get close and

396
00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,720
Speaker 1: then try to strike around midday that once those those

397
00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:36,480
Speaker 1: winds get good and stable, you know, I have to watch.

398
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:40,320
Speaker 1: I have to watch the very first stable wind. It's like, okay,

399
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:42,320
Speaker 1: now we got a good uphill win. Now the thermals

400
00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:45,840
Speaker 1: will changed. Let's go. But sometimes you got to wait

401
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,240
Speaker 1: another thirty minutes because it can be kind of fickle.

402
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:51,320
Speaker 1: But once they get stable for thirty minutes or so,

403
00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:52,720
Speaker 1: then I'm going to make a move. I'm going to

404
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,240
Speaker 1: go try to get close to where I think they're betting,

405
00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:57,680
Speaker 1: and then I'm gonna start doing some bugling and some raking.

406
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:01,520
Speaker 1: And I've had a pretty good success with that. And

407
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:04,880
Speaker 1: the bulls don't get super mad, like you don't hear

408
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:10,240
Speaker 1: that real emotionally charged bugle like you do September thirtieth

409
00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:13,439
Speaker 1: or September twentieth. It's more of a he's just more

410
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:16,840
Speaker 1: of a just an average bugle, yeah, per se. And

411
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,440
Speaker 1: as they come in, you never hear them like get

412
00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:22,439
Speaker 1: really mad. I think they're coming in at a curiosity,

413
00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:24,679
Speaker 1: like who the heck is that guy? We I know

414
00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:26,959
Speaker 1: all the guys in my little bachelor group here. I

415
00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:29,800
Speaker 1: know we've done some pecking order. Maybe they've separated from

416
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:31,880
Speaker 1: their bachelor group, but they have their pecking order. They're

417
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:35,680
Speaker 1: still like stationed on those little fingers. I don't recognize

418
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:38,240
Speaker 1: that guy over there. Let's I'm gonna go check him out.

419
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:40,680
Speaker 1: And and a lot of times here they come. They

420
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,880
Speaker 1: don't seem to be mad, but they're just real curious.

421
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,640
Speaker 2: And you find that they're bugling coming in.

422
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, a lot of times there bugling. I have

423
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,359
Speaker 1: had them come in quiet, especially the younger bulls, like

424
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:53,840
Speaker 1: let's say that just like a young raghorn or something

425
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:56,320
Speaker 1: like a two and a half year old bull. Those

426
00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:59,280
Speaker 1: ones don't Sometimes those will just be quiet and they'll

427
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:01,720
Speaker 1: just kind of come in like, yeah, here you my dad.

428
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:07,520
Speaker 2: And when you're so so, you have a good idea

429
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 2: where a likely betting area. For these bulls are on

430
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:13,200
Speaker 2: these ridges. How close are you trying to get into those?

431
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:14,720
Speaker 2: Before you start calling?

432
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:17,200
Speaker 1: I don't want to get I don't want to stay

433
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:18,960
Speaker 1: too far away, but I don't want to get too close.

434
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:21,240
Speaker 1: So what I like to do. I like to look

435
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:24,560
Speaker 1: on my on X maps and I will look at first,

436
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,960
Speaker 1: I'll look at the topo map and I'll look and

437
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 1: find the most north facing slope where I think they

438
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 1: could be betting. And I find that most north facing

439
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,720
Speaker 1: feature on the on that finger ridge that we talked about, Okay,

440
00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:41,719
Speaker 1: And then I turn on the satellite imagery and I

441
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:45,159
Speaker 1: look for the densest or the darkest timber or or

442
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:50,080
Speaker 1: vegetation on that north face, and I'll make a mark there.

443
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,080
Speaker 1: And I typically I want to go toward to that

444
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 1: spot and get no more than I don't want to

445
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,480
Speaker 1: get any closer than one hundred yards before I start

446
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:02,480
Speaker 1: doing any calling, because a lot of times, depending on

447
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:04,440
Speaker 1: the forest, they may be able to pick you off

448
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 1: from one hundred yards unless it's real thick. Now, if

449
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 1: it's real thick, you might be able to get closer

450
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:13,439
Speaker 1: than that. But I kind of after hunting a lot

451
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 1: of years, you kind of get that little feeling inside

452
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:18,400
Speaker 1: you kind of start trusting your gut, and I start

453
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 1: getting pretty close to the spot, and I start getting

454
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 1: this little feeling like, man, if I go any closer,

455
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:25,240
Speaker 1: I'm going to blow them out of here. So I'll

456
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:27,680
Speaker 1: usually listen to my gut and then I'll stop. I'll

457
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,439
Speaker 1: look for somewhere to set up good. So is the

458
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 1: wind good? Do I have a couple good a couple

459
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 1: good shooting lanes. I don't want twelve shooting lanes. I

460
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,720
Speaker 1: don't want five good shooting lines. I want maybe one

461
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,399
Speaker 1: really good one that maybe I can shoot thirty yards,

462
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,439
Speaker 1: and a couple crappy ones I can shoot like five yards.

463
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 1: Because when I set up like that, the elcast to

464
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:55,080
Speaker 1: come really close to see my calls. If you have

465
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 1: lots of shooting lanes and they can stand out there

466
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 1: sixty yards seventy yards from you will typically stand out

467
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:04,200
Speaker 1: there sixty seventy yards looking for that elk that's making

468
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,359
Speaker 1: that noise. So but I'll get real close and I'll

469
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 1: start doing some calls, and I will introduce some cow calls,

470
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:14,359
Speaker 1: but it'll be mostly bugles, and I won't be super aggressive.

471
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 1: And I liked what you said earlier. You kind of

472
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 1: do what the elk are doing. If they're calling aggressive,

473
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,959
Speaker 1: you call aggressive, they're calling meek and mild. That's to

474
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,919
Speaker 1: do the same thing. I like to mirror a copycat

475
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 1: what they're doing if they're a lot of times I'll

476
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,160
Speaker 1: have I'll start playing with a bowl and he'll kind

477
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 1: of just kind of sound like really whimpy and weird,

478
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:36,679
Speaker 1: like kind of like he's going for puberty or something.

479
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,639
Speaker 1: And I'll start messing with him, but I keep pecking

480
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 1: at him for a while, you know, and I'm not

481
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 1: escalating never, and then finally he'll escalate. He'll give a

482
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,720
Speaker 1: real full bugle, like and I'm like, oh, yeah, that's

483
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,919
Speaker 1: good that we're making progress. We've we're starting starting to

484
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 1: crack the coat. It is kind of like when you're

485
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 1: a kid, you know, I know you are what am I?

486
00:25:57,880 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 1: Or I know you are what am I? I know you

487
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,160
Speaker 1: are what am I? Kind of doing that back and forth,

488
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,679
Speaker 1: You're just trying to get somebody's goat right, And I

489
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 1: feel like by doing that, just pecking at them, and

490
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,119
Speaker 1: then finally you hear them escalate and get that full bugle.

491
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:09,879
Speaker 1: Then it's time for me to escalate and do my

492
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:13,960
Speaker 1: full bugle, and and usually when they do that, they're

493
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:16,880
Speaker 1: gonna be on their way pretty soon now. And they

494
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,199
Speaker 1: may come in quick, they may come in slow. You

495
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 1: just never know.

496
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,959
Speaker 2: And how much how much effort or are you putting

497
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:30,159
Speaker 2: into like making noise other than your call, so like

498
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 2: thudding on the ground and breaking branches and stuff, like,

499
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,320
Speaker 2: how much of that are you throwing in or are you.

500
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I make quite a bit of effort, you know.

501
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 1: I'll thump around, I'll pick up a rock and tumble

502
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 1: it down the hill, and I'll grab brush brush and

503
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:46,919
Speaker 1: swish it around or snap some branches and I'll make

504
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,120
Speaker 1: some noise. I wanted to have that realism, like there's

505
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 1: actually because elk are noisy when they're not when they're undisturbed,

506
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 1: they're they're pretty noisy.

507
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 2: We had killed a bull in twenty fifteen that we

508
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 2: actually had a bull come in bed within forty yards

509
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 2: of us and he was sitting. He was stayed there

510
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:13,440
Speaker 2: for fifteen minutes. Somehow the wind stayed good the whole time. Wow,

511
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,159
Speaker 2: But he was bugling from his bed and we were

512
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 2: calling and and you know, trying to get this other

513
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 2: bull that had cows down. He was just over the

514
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 2: lip had cows down there and they were bugling back

515
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 2: and forth. But that bull down there with the cows

516
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 2: wouldn't come up until this other bull got up and

517
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:37,360
Speaker 2: he started walking towards the bull with the cows, and

518
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 2: I was going to shoot him, but he got behind

519
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 2: some brush. He was only like ten yards, but I

520
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,479
Speaker 2: couldn't get a shot at him. He ended up getting

521
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,439
Speaker 2: our wind and spooking, and when he spooked, he you know,

522
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 2: made the hoof foot thuds and broke some branches. And

523
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 2: when he did that, this other bull came up, at

524
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 2: which I was able to shoot, but it wasn't until

525
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 2: you know, that bull made all the rack just you know,

526
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 2: didn't have anything to do with bugel. It's just him

527
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,880
Speaker 2: running around. That's what got that other bull to come up.

528
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:11,160
Speaker 1: That's a very good point. That just adds that realism,

529
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 1: because what do predators do. They sneak their quiet. A

530
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:17,159
Speaker 1: lot of humans are that way. They sneak they're quiet.

531
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 1: But when you're trying to call one in, we're not

532
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,240
Speaker 1: doing the still hunting approach. Now we're making noise, we're

533
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 1: banging around, we're beating up on stuff. When I'm calling

534
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 1: for someone else always it's funny because I'll I always

535
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 1: think like, man, I hope somebody doesn't isn't like looking

536
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 1: at me from afar like glass empagrim across the county,

537
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 1: because especially if they didn't know about elk hunting, right,

538
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 1: if they seen me, they'd be like, look at that

539
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 1: guy's he's a crazy man. He's running around in circles

540
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 1: and he's jumping up and down, and he's throwing trees,

541
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 1: throwing rocks. What is going on? So it's just to

542
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 1: add in that realism. And I like to kind of say,

543
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 1: I whenever I'm trying to call bulls, I almost try

544
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 1: to turn my my I turn off my human brain

545
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 1: and I turn on my elk brain, and I do

546
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 1: like kind of role play, right, what would an elk do?

547
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 2: What?

548
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 1: How would an elk behave? I want to try to

549
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 1: mimic those those actions and sounds, whether you know, non

550
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 1: vocal ones especially.

551
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 2: And that that's something that took me a long time

552
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:13,719
Speaker 2: to realize, coming from strictly hunting white tails in the

553
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 2: South to hunting elk out west. When I first started

554
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 2: hunting elk, you know, I had looking back at the

555
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 2: opportunities I had, I was like man, I should have

556
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 2: killed elk every year, you know, with a with a

557
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 2: wooden bow, And I could if I was put into

558
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 2: those situations now. But I was just so timid, you

559
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 2: know when I first started hunting elk, because you don't

560
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 2: you don't do that stuff with white tails. You know,

561
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 2: you're like, you do everything that you can to not

562
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 2: be obtrusive in the woods, but with elk, I was

563
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 2: just not being aggressive enough.

564
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 1: That's a very good point. And a lot of our

565
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 1: listeners and and folks who want to come out West

566
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 1: every year, you know, they're very accomplished whitetail hunters and

567
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 1: they come out and they struggled. They're like, man, I

568
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 1: just can't figure this out. And because it's such a

569
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 1: different process for for elk, verst calling elk versus hunting

570
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 1: whitetails very very different. So let's let's move into the

571
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 1: next week. So we're looking at the tenth through the twentieth.

572
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 1: What are you? What are we doing there? Are we

573
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 1: Are we changing tactics at all? Are we looking at

574
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 1: things differently?

575
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 2: So that's a that's an interesting time period for me

576
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 2: because that's usually encompasses the period where people show up.

577
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 2: You start getting more people in the woods, and then

578
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 2: you have to start taking into account. Like I'm usually

579
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 2: a pretty cautious elk hunter, Like if I find elk

580
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 2: in a base, and I put a lot of time

581
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 2: into trying to get away from people and find elk

582
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 2: that are undisturbed, and because it's so important for me

583
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 2: to get so close. If I find elk in a

584
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 2: basin that are where I think they're not likely to

585
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 2: be bumped by people, and the situation isn't right, I'll

586
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 2: just I'll just watch them and I'll come back another day.

587
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 2: But when you get to that September fifteenth, seventeenth, twentieth,

588
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 2: it's like you can't I can't really afford to do that.

589
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 2: Becau's very very likely somebody else is going to go

590
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 2: in there and find those elk and bump them, and

591
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 2: then I have to find them again anyway, right, you know.

592
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 2: So that's the I think that's the major way that

593
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 2: my tactics shift in there, is I moved from being

594
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 2: a very cautious hunter to be much more aggressive because

595
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 2: I know somebody else is gonna mess those elk up

596
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 2: and push them out of the drainage where I know

597
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 2: they're at. But that's the that's the time when they

598
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 2: really when they start bugle and start running, I start

599
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 2: seeing rubs, start seeing bulls with cows. That's when I

600
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 2: will get up souper for early, try to get up

601
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 2: midway in the slope and start throwing out location bugles

602
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 2: and try to figure out what they're doing, where they're going.

603
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 2: And then I try to cut them off and get

604
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 2: in super close to them, and I'll be a lot

605
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 2: more aggressive with my bugling. But like I said, I

606
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,239
Speaker 2: don't my My whole game is I'll try to I'll

607
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 2: try to be as quiet and stealthy as I can

608
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 2: until I get like as just as close as I

609
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 2: think I can get to them. And I'm trying. I mean,

610
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 2: sometimes I'll be getting within fifty yards of them before

611
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 2: I ever let them know I'm there. If I can

612
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 2: do that, if I can get within fifty yards of

613
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 2: a bullets got cows, there's a real good chance that

614
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 2: I'm going to get that get him to come to me.

615
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I agree with that. It feels I feel

616
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 1: like a lot of folks where they kind of have

617
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 1: a problem as maybe they they aren't aggressive enough for

618
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 1: at the right time, you know, maybe they're they're cautious,

619
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 1: but then you have to be agressive at the right times, like, Okay,

620
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 1: it's time for me to get close instead of, you know,

621
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 1: watch from across the hillside, you know, from across the draw, like, well,

622
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 1: they're way out of range, and I'm afraid to make

623
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 1: a move. I don't want to spook them. But it's like,

624
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:14,719
Speaker 1: once the elk get into a position to where you

625
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 1: can close that distance, you should act right get in there, close,

626
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 1: make sure the wind's good, and then do some calling.

627
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 1: And I found that that works for me too. But

628
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 1: I found that a lot of times if I were

629
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 1: to like not just dive right in and get a

630
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 1: little bit aggressive at the right times, my opportunity slipped

631
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 1: me by the elk. Maybe I had maybe I did

632
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 1: have them talking, you know, I would probably normally I'll

633
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 1: have them talking from a little bit of a distance.

634
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 1: But if I was to just kind of hang back,

635
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 1: you don't want to be a wallflower. You want to

636
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 1: you want to be the person that walks over and

637
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 1: asks for the for the dance, right. You want to

638
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 1: go get involved with that elk when they're opportunity is right.

639
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 1: When is that That's when the wind is right, and

640
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 1: that's when the elk are in a position they're not

641
00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 1: going to see it coming from a uh from a

642
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:01,719
Speaker 1: great distance from across to draw you know, maybe use

643
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 1: some topography to hide and to mask your movements and

644
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 1: then get close and then make your move.

645
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:10,359
Speaker 2: So I should I should mention, like when I'm talking

646
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,399
Speaker 2: about getting super close to these elks, like a lot

647
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:14,840
Speaker 2: most of your audience is probably shooting compounds. Just like, well,

648
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 2: if you're within fifty yard when you just shoot it

649
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,400
Speaker 2: right right, well, you gotta understand the weapons I'm hunting with,

650
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 2: and I have to get much closer than that. Like

651
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,240
Speaker 2: if I'm standing on the three D range at my house,

652
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 2: you know, I can make a fifty yard shot fairly regularly,

653
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 2: but I'm not going to shoot an elk at that

654
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 2: distance I need to get for elk, I need to

655
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 2: get within thirty yards and preferably you know, within twenty.

656
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 2: So take that into consideration when you listen to what

657
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:43,719
Speaker 2: I'm what I'm saying.

658
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:48,319
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, absolutely, I have some some aspirations to elk

659
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 1: count with a trad bow someday, and I've got a

660
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 1: free curve at home and I'll shoot if that elk

661
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 1: is at twenty yards or less, they're in deep trouble.

662
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,399
Speaker 1: But if they're at twenty five yards, they're not as

663
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:02,560
Speaker 1: big a trouble. And if they're at thirty yards, they're

664
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 1: pretty safe. You know, Well, it's bad. SHOT's got to

665
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 1: be close.

666
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's and I think that depends on on who's

667
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 2: you know, who's who the shooter is sure, you know,

668
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 2: I'm not going to shoot at a white tail at

669
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,320
Speaker 2: thirty yards just because there's a much much smaller target

670
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,959
Speaker 2: and they're so flipping quick, you know, with an elk

671
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 2: the size of an elk. I feel very confident at

672
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 2: thirty yards my bow. But I haven't always been that way,

673
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 2: you know. Several years ago I would have been just

674
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 2: I would have said, all right, twenty yards, you know,

675
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 2: and I wouldn't have shot on anything, probably over that.

676
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 2: But it just depends on what you're where you're at

677
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 2: in your shooting.

678
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the country you hunt a lot of times

679
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 1: these days is a lot more open country, so it's

680
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:52,879
Speaker 1: hard to get those tight close shots compared to maybe

681
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 1: up northern part of the country where it's a lot thicker.

682
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:03,920
Speaker 2: Would you say that, Yeah, yeah, I think it was.

683
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:09,920
Speaker 2: I probably on average, was getting closer to elk in

684
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:12,799
Speaker 2: North Idaho where it is so thick, because like you're

685
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:14,839
Speaker 2: just talking about earlier, you don't want to set up

686
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,239
Speaker 2: where they can see you from where you can where

687
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 2: they can see your calling location from eighty yards away,

688
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:21,759
Speaker 2: because that's what's exactly what they're gonna do. They're gonna

689
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,800
Speaker 2: walk up until they can see where you're sitting, and

690
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 2: they're going to look, they don't see an elk, and

691
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 2: then they're going to turn around and walk away. And

692
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 2: so in North Idaho or areas that are thick like that,

693
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:35,800
Speaker 2: they just physically can't you know, they can't see you

694
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 2: from those distances, and so they have to cut the distance.

695
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,239
Speaker 2: There are places like that where I hunt now that

696
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 2: are thicker where they have to come. Just last year,

697
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 2: I called a bull in and he was, you know,

698
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:54,920
Speaker 2: within fifteen yards of me and like face on, like

699
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 2: had me pinned down. I couldn't do anything. And the

700
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 2: felt of that that I had with me was he'd

701
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 2: never been el hunting before. He was behind me running

702
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:08,360
Speaker 2: the camera and he you know, didn't quite make the

703
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 2: right moves. It was just what caused the bull to

704
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 2: lock up and the he would have walked right over

705
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 2: the top of us if I'd been by myself, but

706
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 2: he had to come that close, you know, to be

707
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:19,800
Speaker 2: able to see me.

708
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I watched that film. Yeah, Yeah, that

709
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 1: was awesome.

710
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:25,920
Speaker 2: But that worked out good. I mean, like I got

711
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:27,680
Speaker 2: to hunt the whole I think we hunted like twenty

712
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:29,920
Speaker 2: one days or something like that. Had some good encounters,

713
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 2: but it was a tough sea for me. Anyway. It

714
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 2: was a tough season last year. I just wouldn't see

715
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:36,800
Speaker 2: in the number of elk, but then was able to

716
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:39,720
Speaker 2: because I didn't notch my tag. Or in the archery season,

717
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 2: was able to do that late muzzloor or hunt, which

718
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 2: was freaking epic. That was awesome. I had to talk

719
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 2: about that later.

720
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:48,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, I watched that video too. It was good. Was

721
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 1: it one on the same video or is it like

722
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:51,360
Speaker 1: a series. I can't remember that.

723
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 2: Those two different, but like the archery season was one

724
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 2: and then I did a later muzzloader cow hunt in

725
00:37:59,200 --> 00:37:59,839
Speaker 2: a different video.

726
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:02,839
Speaker 1: Right, And what what's your YouTube channel? Uh?

727
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 2: Just Clay Hayes. Hayes got on Google or YouTube find it.

728
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:08,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, I highly recommend it. I mean there's so many

729
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 1: videos like up, so many videos of them, and it's

730
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 1: just interesting and to watch you and your craft and

731
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,759
Speaker 1: then your family too. I mean, there's there's a film

732
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 1: about you and your family, and I just love it.

733
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 2: So appreciate that.

734
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:40,840
Speaker 1: Now. One thing I just picked up about what you

735
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 1: said I really wanted our listeners to kind of key

736
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 1: in on, is like you said, fifty yards at home, yeah,

737
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:49,879
Speaker 1: you can consistently hit the target, you know, pretty well.

738
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 1: But in the woods you scale that back to thirty

739
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:54,239
Speaker 1: yards and less.

740
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I don't want to. I don't want to

741
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:02,399
Speaker 2: put a distance on it, right, Like I mean, I'm

742
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 2: sure you've had situations like this before, like you'll and

743
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 2: I think of one situation in particular. I had a

744
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:12,279
Speaker 2: bull at like eight yards and I just didn't there

745
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:16,239
Speaker 2: was no shot, you know. And then that bull that

746
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:19,439
Speaker 2: I was talking about earlier in twenty fifteen actually shot

747
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:23,200
Speaker 2: that bull at thirty five. And so it's like, I

748
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 2: don't I don't put a distance limitation on myself. I'll

749
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 2: shoot if I am confident in my ability to make

750
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 2: the shot, right if I'm not, and that and like

751
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:36,840
Speaker 2: I said that that distance maybe you know, only a

752
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 2: few yards. If I don't think I can squeeze an

753
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 2: arrow through that brush or find a hole or something

754
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:42,279
Speaker 2: like that. I'm not going to try to punch an

755
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 2: arrow through it. But if I see an animal and

756
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:49,400
Speaker 2: I feel like, all right, I can do this, I'll shoot,

757
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:52,319
Speaker 2: you know. And like I said, I can make those

758
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 2: fifty yard shots on the three D target at the house.

759
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:57,719
Speaker 2: I've just never found that type of situation in the

760
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 2: woods where I felt confident that I make that shot

761
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 2: on an animal.

762
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, that's a that's a great point. I think

763
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 1: a lot of us, you know, especially compound shooters. It's popular,

764
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,400
Speaker 1: you know today with moveable sites, you know you can

765
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:16,880
Speaker 1: you can hit accurately out to one hundred yards. Do

766
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:18,839
Speaker 1: I want to shoot an elk at one hundred yard yards?

767
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 1: Absolutely not. Do I want to shoot an elk at

768
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 1: fifty yards. I typically keep my shots like it's just

769
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 1: it's a lot like what you said, you know, I

770
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 1: want to, you know, if I fill one hundred percent,

771
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:30,880
Speaker 1: like my ability is like, the shot is good, the

772
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:33,839
Speaker 1: animal is unaware, you know, everything is right. I'm gonna

773
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 1: take that shot. Maybe at forty five fifty yards probably

774
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 1: not though, And and most of my shots are under

775
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:42,400
Speaker 1: forty Most of my I think most of my shots

776
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 1: have been under thirty with a compound thirty and less.

777
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 1: And why do I why do I like to do that?

778
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:51,960
Speaker 1: I just like high percentage shots. I don't want to miss.

779
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:53,480
Speaker 1: I don't want to wound him. You know, I have

780
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 1: so much respect for the animal. I don't want to

781
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:56,719
Speaker 1: wound the thing. I want to just take a I

782
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:58,959
Speaker 1: want to make sure whenever I do finally get my shot,

783
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:01,839
Speaker 1: that I get to take that bull home or bull

784
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:04,759
Speaker 1: home with me. I don't want to have that non

785
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:07,440
Speaker 1: at my on my my mind for the next year,

786
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:09,399
Speaker 1: that man, I shouldn't have took that shot. I went

787
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:11,279
Speaker 1: in that bull, I never found him. Did he die,

788
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:14,400
Speaker 1: did he suffer? Did he did he not die? I

789
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:18,760
Speaker 1: just hate that feeling so and even taking really good shots,

790
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:22,520
Speaker 1: you know, they can go awry sometimes. So yeah, I

791
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 1: just I like, I always recommend folks to you know,

792
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 1: just because you're awesome in your backyard just pounding targets.

793
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:31,920
Speaker 1: It's a complete different game in the woods.

794
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, talking about good shots, Connor Rye reminds me

795
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 2: I had this was I don't know, several years back,

796
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:43,800
Speaker 2: I had a I was still hunting a late whitetail

797
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:48,279
Speaker 2: season up in North Idaho and ended up having a

798
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:51,759
Speaker 2: just a perfect situation. I was on the ground. I

799
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:53,919
Speaker 2: was on a road cut and had had the lip

800
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:57,399
Speaker 2: of the road. There was a big, huge white tail

801
00:41:57,480 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 2: dow down below me. She was close, she was like

802
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 2: five yards wow. And she came and I saw her.

803
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:06,239
Speaker 2: She was walking to my left, went out of sight.

804
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 2: I knew exactly where she was going to pop out,

805
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:11,239
Speaker 2: came back to full draw. She came out, and I

806
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 2: tracked her and made what felt like a perfect shot,

807
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:18,239
Speaker 2: and my arrows like skewed her through the hams and

808
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:21,279
Speaker 2: I was like, oh wow, the hell just happened. It's

809
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 2: like that shot felt perfect. Luckily, I hit the femoral

810
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:28,239
Speaker 2: artery and she bled out in like a few seconds. Sure,

811
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:30,840
Speaker 2: but there was a I had a camera guy with me.

812
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 2: He was behind me, and I looked back at the

813
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:36,439
Speaker 2: footage and there was a piece of a rose limb

814
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:39,920
Speaker 2: that I hit, didn't I mean, I was so zoned

815
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:43,959
Speaker 2: in on the deer never even saw it. Lucky, luckily,

816
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 2: everything turned out right, but that that limb deflected my

817
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:50,160
Speaker 2: shot by like eighteen inches.

818
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:51,960
Speaker 1: Oh wow, that's crazy.

819
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:54,399
Speaker 2: So that's that's one of those situations where like, yeah,

820
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:59,240
Speaker 2: everything's perfect, that you got a good shot, you execute

821
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:02,080
Speaker 2: the shot well, and just something that's out of your control,

822
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:03,799
Speaker 2: that's it up.

823
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want one time I had a perfect broadshot,

824
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:11,960
Speaker 1: broadside shot and a spike bull elk and I make

825
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 1: the shot and he runs off. I'm like all right,

826
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:15,560
Speaker 1: and I do know. I wait the amount of time

827
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 1: and I start falling blood and it's like the blood's okay,

828
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 1: but you know he should be dead, like right up here,

829
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:24,239
Speaker 1: and he's just not dead. I'm still falling tracks and

830
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:26,839
Speaker 1: the blood's getting really spotty. Now I'm like, what the heck?

831
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:30,320
Speaker 1: I made a perfect shot on this bull and I

832
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:32,840
Speaker 1: follow a fall off Hall have to get out lights

833
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 1: and lanterns. It gets dark. I'm crawling on my hands

834
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:38,160
Speaker 1: and knees. I'm like, man, oh, here's a speck of

835
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 1: blood and here's a speck of blud. I was just

836
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:42,960
Speaker 1: I was just overwhelmed with you know, guilt, like, man,

837
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 1: what happened? Like I knew it took a good shot,

838
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:47,720
Speaker 1: and I don't know if I want a bow hunt anymore.

839
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:49,480
Speaker 1: And then I kind of kind of set back on

840
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:50,880
Speaker 1: my because I was on my hands and knees. I

841
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:52,640
Speaker 1: kind of sat back on my haunches and I looked

842
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 1: up that bull's laying.

843
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:54,399
Speaker 2: Dead right there.

844
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:59,319
Speaker 1: And what happened was is I hit him right right

845
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 1: in the middle of the lawungs. But my arrow hit

846
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:04,319
Speaker 1: a rib and glanced and it took a hard rite,

847
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:06,400
Speaker 1: so it got one part of one lung and it

848
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:09,400
Speaker 1: glanced back through part of the liver and then the guts,

849
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:13,879
Speaker 1: so it wasn't a great blood trail. And he went

850
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 1: I don't know, probably three hundred yards, but it was

851
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:19,719
Speaker 1: tough tracking. So I don't know what made my arrow

852
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 1: do that weird JFK magic bullet travel pattern. But it

853
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:26,759
Speaker 1: glanced off off of a rib. It was a three

854
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:29,800
Speaker 1: three blade broadhead. It's a fixed blade, yeah, fixed blade

855
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 1: lit old thunderhead back in the old days, and it

856
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 1: it I don't know if one of the blades caught

857
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:38,279
Speaker 1: just right and acted like a ramp like it would

858
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:44,080
Speaker 1: deflect on a branch. It deflected. And I will say also,

859
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 1: back in those days, people didn't really super tune their

860
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:48,839
Speaker 1: bows right like we do. Know. We didn't shoot them

861
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:50,719
Speaker 1: through paper. We just kind of eyeballed them. You get

862
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:52,840
Speaker 1: the center shot. It's like you shoot it, and it's like,

863
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:55,719
Speaker 1: you know, there was a little bit of method, like

864
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 1: oh it's fishtailing or it's wabblewinger. You do a little

865
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 1: corrective stuff, but we weren't and our bows through paper

866
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:03,520
Speaker 1: back then, and maybe people did, and I just was

867
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:06,040
Speaker 1: too dumb to know. It a little small town and

868
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 1: I had a little town of wip. You know, I

869
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:10,759
Speaker 1: didn't know anything about tune in Bo's, but the pro

870
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:12,359
Speaker 1: shops set it up and I thought, you know, it's

871
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 1: probably good. I didn't know you should, so it could

872
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 1: have my bone could have been out of tune, which

873
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:22,840
Speaker 1: probably could compound that kind of a movement. But anyway,

874
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 1: it was you can take a perfect shot, as you say,

875
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:29,240
Speaker 1: everything looks good, and they can still go awry.

876
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:34,279
Speaker 2: You just got to try to focus on taking it

877
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 2: as higher percent of shots as you can.

878
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 1: Yep, absolutely, I agree with that one hundred percent. As

879
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:43,440
Speaker 1: far as my call on during that period, I'm probably

880
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:46,960
Speaker 1: gonna have more cow calls than earlier. I'm gonna start

881
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:50,400
Speaker 1: doing a lot more cow calls, So it's almost fifty

882
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:54,880
Speaker 1: to fifty bugles to cow calls. And but I'm I'm experimenting,

883
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 1: you know whatever. The elk are doing. Whatever they're reacting

884
00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 1: to is what I'm going to give them. So if

885
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:02,920
Speaker 1: the bulls react well to cow calls, I'm probably going

886
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:06,320
Speaker 1: to be a little more cow call heavy, which is

887
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 1: great because I really like the bulls to answer my

888
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:14,640
Speaker 1: cow calls because I will. It's almost like I want

889
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:17,279
Speaker 1: him to have a conversation with the cows and then

890
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:20,200
Speaker 1: me playing the bull as well. I'm going to say, hey,

891
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:21,759
Speaker 1: you shut up, don't talk to my girls. I'll get

892
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 1: aggressive with my bugles, and a lot of times that

893
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:27,120
Speaker 1: really works to get those bulls to come in. They're like,

894
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:30,000
Speaker 1: oh man, that guy's defensive over there. He must have

895
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 1: some really nice ladies. There's probably one that's, you know,

896
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:35,879
Speaker 1: ready to be bred. I get over there and fight

897
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 1: and steal those cows away. You know, this is what

898
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 1: I'm thinking in my head, and there's probably a biologist

899
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 1: out there it'll say you got it all wrong, but

900
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 1: this is kind of what goes through my head and

901
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:51,040
Speaker 1: it seems to work during that period. So now let's

902
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:53,960
Speaker 1: go to the tail end of September, so the twentieth

903
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:57,439
Speaker 1: to thirtieth. Is there anything different you're doing during that time?

904
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:00,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just I don't call it all because things.

905
00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:03,360
Speaker 1: Are you hearing lots of bugles or is it like

906
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:04,439
Speaker 1: kind of getting quiet again?

907
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 2: I think for me, where I hunt, the pressure just

908
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:11,399
Speaker 2: shuts them down. I mean for and like I don't

909
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 2: really I'm not as call heavy as you like, not

910
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:16,880
Speaker 2: even nearly. Like I don't. I don't really rely on

911
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,440
Speaker 2: calling all that much at all. I still hunt a lot.

912
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 2: But for me, where I hunt seems like once they

913
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 2: once the people start showing up, you've got maybe a

914
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:33,120
Speaker 2: five day window where the hunting is still fairly good.

915
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:35,759
Speaker 2: But after that, man, you throw out a calcol or

916
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:37,520
Speaker 2: a bugle, and they shut up and run the other way.

917
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 1: They get pretty savvy to it.

918
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:43,680
Speaker 2: They get super call shy where I hunt anyway, And

919
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 2: so I just totally do away with the call in

920
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:51,359
Speaker 2: and I'll wait for them to bugle, and I try

921
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:53,799
Speaker 2: to slip in and try to get get in close

922
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 2: to them and cut them off. At that time, I

923
00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:00,200
Speaker 2: could probably I know that I could do things very differently,

924
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:04,280
Speaker 2: So I'd be interested to hear in that type of situation.

925
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 2: And I've literally like seen them see like gotten close

926
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:13,040
Speaker 2: to a bowl called to them. And I don't think

927
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:17,399
Speaker 2: my collie sucks that bad like they literally run away. Yeah,

928
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:20,200
Speaker 2: but I think it's because there's just they hear it

929
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:22,759
Speaker 2: all the time and they start to associate it with people.

930
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:26,240
Speaker 2: I mean, you've got people walking down ridges, skyline bugling,

931
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:28,360
Speaker 2: and all the elk's got to do is look up

932
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:29,800
Speaker 2: and see that it's a person.

933
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:32,120
Speaker 1: What do you do?

934
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:33,240
Speaker 2: What do you do in that situation?

935
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:38,800
Speaker 1: I try not to hunt those same elk. I'm pretty mobile,

936
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:41,160
Speaker 1: and I don't know how mobile you are in your

937
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:44,000
Speaker 1: in your setup. I like to have like a base camp,

938
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 1: But one day I might hunt like pretty close to camp.

939
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 1: The next day I might go ten, fifteen, twenty miles,

940
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:52,400
Speaker 1: So yeah, across the unit into a different area. So

941
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:54,759
Speaker 1: I bounce around a lot, and I I try not

942
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 1: to over hunt one spot because I understand, like I

943
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 1: get that they get that they start associating calls with humans.

944
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:07,400
Speaker 1: And you know, just because you were calling and you

945
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:09,919
Speaker 1: didn't ever see the elk that morning when you walk

946
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:12,400
Speaker 1: out and leave, that doesn't mean those elk that they

947
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:14,920
Speaker 1: don't come up and sniff around. I think they probably

948
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:16,440
Speaker 1: do a lot more than we give them credit for.

949
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:18,520
Speaker 1: They come up there as like, hey there's a guy

950
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:21,160
Speaker 1: I've been up here in Pete right here. I don't

951
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:22,520
Speaker 1: know if elk are that smart, but I feel like

952
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:25,280
Speaker 1: they come around and they smell the presence of humans

953
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 1: and like it kind of makes them like, I don't

954
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:30,800
Speaker 1: know if I trust those calls anymore. Yeah, So I

955
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:32,960
Speaker 1: try try to bounce around, just try to get away

956
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:37,279
Speaker 1: from people the best I can. Now, let's say there

957
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:39,560
Speaker 1: is a lot of people. Now let's say you were

958
00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:43,560
Speaker 1: there opening week and the elk were in this basin

959
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:47,279
Speaker 1: and now everybody showed up. Do you find your elk

960
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:49,160
Speaker 1: kind of disappear? Do they kind of move off into

961
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:50,919
Speaker 1: a different place, or do they just kind of still

962
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 1: stay there and just get really cagy.

963
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:58,959
Speaker 2: They will bounce around. Like the scale of the base

964
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 2: and that I think matters a lot. Like like where

965
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:03,799
Speaker 2: I hunt, there's a lot of little pockets where they

966
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:07,160
Speaker 2: get and so you know, if somebody goes up with drainage,

967
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:10,720
Speaker 2: they'll and really it's let's say they're in the bottom

968
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:12,440
Speaker 2: of the drainage and working their way up when the

969
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:16,359
Speaker 2: thermal switches and their their wind gets blown up into

970
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 2: their bed area, Well, those elk are going to go

971
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:22,600
Speaker 2: over the ridge into the next next little finger, you know,

972
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:25,160
Speaker 2: creek or whatever. And maybe hang out there. They might

973
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 2: go too, but they just they don't like leave the area.

974
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:31,239
Speaker 2: They just kind of rotate around and kind of get

975
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 2: pushed around like that.

976
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:37,000
Speaker 1: Right now, I found like I've experienced the same thing

977
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:41,440
Speaker 1: you've you're describing, especially about the when the people show up.

978
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:44,440
Speaker 1: A lot of times I just try to find places

979
00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:47,960
Speaker 1: to hunt where people are not. So there's a new

980
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:51,480
Speaker 1: area that I was hunting, and I'm like, oh, well, once,

981
00:50:51,719 --> 00:50:53,560
Speaker 1: you know, once people start showing up, I'll probably just

982
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:56,120
Speaker 1: gonna park on a trailhead and just get way back in.

983
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:59,399
Speaker 1: But what I found was is most of the people

984
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:01,840
Speaker 1: were parking on the trailhead and get way back in.

985
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:04,719
Speaker 1: So I had to change tactics. So I tried to

986
00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:07,759
Speaker 1: get away from any kind of like official trails right

987
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:11,480
Speaker 1: just bushwhack. It's like, well, if I were an elk,

988
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:13,080
Speaker 1: where would I go when there's a lot of people.

989
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 1: It's a real nice basin. Look, there was a bunch

990
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:19,880
Speaker 1: of elk in there. There's a good access, good trails

991
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 1: in them. Now, if the elk were run out of

992
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 1: that over into the next side, while there's no trails

993
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:28,600
Speaker 1: in there, it's steep, it's rocky, it's brushy. I think

994
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:30,560
Speaker 1: I'll go try in there, and that's typically what I'll

995
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:33,640
Speaker 1: try to do, is And it seems like if if

996
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 1: those elk can kind of get away from those people

997
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 1: for a few days, they kind of calmed down a

998
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:43,920
Speaker 1: little bit and they're more more conducive to calls. But

999
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:46,960
Speaker 1: we talked about last night when we were visiting about

1000
00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:51,239
Speaker 1: the presence of sheep, the presence of hunters, and then

1001
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:55,319
Speaker 1: the same area I'm talking about, even once they kind

1002
00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:57,479
Speaker 1: of relocated a little bit, they were still a little

1003
00:51:57,480 --> 00:51:59,239
Speaker 1: bit edgy, because man, those things have been messed with

1004
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:02,240
Speaker 1: a lot. You know, uh you five hundred sheep blown

1005
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:05,600
Speaker 1: up through a drainage with the the I don't know

1006
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:08,880
Speaker 1: if they're Peruvian cowboys on their horses, and they got

1007
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:11,520
Speaker 1: the big white dogs and you know they're the cowboys

1008
00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:13,719
Speaker 1: are hip hip h and you know, hollering and the

1009
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:16,960
Speaker 1: and the dogs are barking all night long, and and man,

1010
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:20,120
Speaker 1: those elk were a little bit edgy. Even once they

1011
00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:22,359
Speaker 1: got kind of pushed to another places, they weren't They

1012
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:25,840
Speaker 1: weren't as callable, I'd say as even some of the

1013
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:28,760
Speaker 1: elk up in North Idaho where there's a lot of wolves.

1014
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:32,239
Speaker 1: I feel like once you kind of get them to

1015
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:34,800
Speaker 1: flip their switch. In North Idaho, they're very callable, but

1016
00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:38,239
Speaker 1: trying to get them talk sometimes is very tough. But

1017
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:41,239
Speaker 1: down there they would talk a bit, but they're very suspicious.

1018
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:45,239
Speaker 1: So I would just in those situations, I just kind

1019
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:47,959
Speaker 1: of keep bouncing around, like, Okay, play with these Elk today,

1020
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:49,640
Speaker 1: and if I don't have any luck, we're pulling out.

1021
00:52:49,640 --> 00:52:51,200
Speaker 1: We'll go somewhere else. We'll come back in a couple

1022
00:52:51,239 --> 00:52:52,880
Speaker 1: of days and and try it again.

1023
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:56,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, We're We're I'm not nearly that mobile because when

1024
00:52:56,800 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 2: we go to Elk camp, it's like we set up

1025
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:02,439
Speaker 2: at my whole fan goes and we just basically moved

1026
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:05,759
Speaker 2: to the mountains for month of September, and so I'm

1027
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:09,960
Speaker 2: basically hunting from our big camp and just whatever I

1028
00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:13,120
Speaker 2: can cover walk into because I hate, like my I

1029
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:15,279
Speaker 2: hate driving my truck down there because the roads are

1030
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:19,520
Speaker 2: so rough and I drive that breaking ninety one comings

1031
00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:26,040
Speaker 2: it's like the suspensions, like you know, so it'll beat

1032
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 2: the fire out of you. Yeah, yeah, but yeah, mostly

1033
00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:31,120
Speaker 2: just what I can walk to.

1034
00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:38,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, And then I felt like con we talked earlier,

1035
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:41,960
Speaker 1: like the Elk, the rut like the activity is different

1036
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:45,160
Speaker 1: from place to place. I've been in places that last

1037
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:48,840
Speaker 1: week of September, and it's it's sometimes just tough to

1038
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:51,760
Speaker 1: get an up to bugle, like either they've been harassed

1039
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:55,400
Speaker 1: a lot and or they're just no cows and heat anymore.

1040
00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:58,719
Speaker 1: They got the job done earlier, and it's almost like

1041
00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:01,799
Speaker 1: bolts are kind of like withdrawing and kind of licking

1042
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:04,439
Speaker 1: their wounds and they'll talk a little bit, but they're

1043
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:07,000
Speaker 1: not interested in the fight, and that makes a really

1044
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:10,600
Speaker 1: tough situation where I think getting back into those still

1045
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:14,839
Speaker 1: hunting tactics would be very valuable and maybe maybe use

1046
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:16,759
Speaker 1: your calls to locate a little bit and then just

1047
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:18,239
Speaker 1: get try to get in on them and kind of

1048
00:54:18,239 --> 00:54:20,200
Speaker 1: still hunt your way through those areas that the bulls

1049
00:54:20,239 --> 00:54:24,919
Speaker 1: are feeding and trying to recuperate. Other areas where I hunt,

1050
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:27,680
Speaker 1: I may not hear any bugling at all until like

1051
00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:30,880
Speaker 1: the twenty fourth of September, and then it's like go

1052
00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:33,279
Speaker 1: time for two or three days and then it's done.

1053
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:37,279
Speaker 2: That just sometimes you'll go and go and go, and

1054
00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:40,000
Speaker 2: it's like they'll just aren't even there. You know, you're

1055
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:43,480
Speaker 2: seeing some but then all of a sudden, this switch

1056
00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:45,680
Speaker 2: just flips and then you get out there the next

1057
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:49,880
Speaker 2: morning it's just like crazy, Yeah, went everywhere.

1058
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:53,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then the next day it's dead silent, like

1059
00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:55,040
Speaker 1: I don't know if they run it too hard that

1060
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:58,000
Speaker 1: day before, like, man, the girls out, Yeah, we got

1061
00:54:58,080 --> 00:55:01,239
Speaker 1: to rest for a day. It's crazy. Now, let's say

1062
00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:05,640
Speaker 1: September comes and goes and you've you've had You've had

1063
00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:07,759
Speaker 1: your fun, but dang it, you didn't get to notch

1064
00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:12,440
Speaker 1: a tag. You talked earlier about muzzle loading that later season.

1065
00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:13,799
Speaker 1: Is that a November type hunt?

1066
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:17,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, Idaho. A lot of the times you have

1067
00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:20,839
Speaker 2: opportunity if you get the A tag, which is kind

1068
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:23,440
Speaker 2: of the archery focus tag, you'll have your archery season

1069
00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:25,480
Speaker 2: and then a lot of times you'll have those late

1070
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:29,960
Speaker 2: muzzloader seasons and they usually cow hunts, but that can

1071
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:34,080
Speaker 2: be an absolute blast. It's a totally different type of hunting.

1072
00:55:34,719 --> 00:55:37,719
Speaker 2: You know, the elker transitioning to their winter range or

1073
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:42,760
Speaker 2: on their winter range, and there's can be huge herds,

1074
00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:45,239
Speaker 2: like you know, you might see a herd with eighty

1075
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 2: or one hundred animals in it. There's a lot of

1076
00:55:48,719 --> 00:55:51,719
Speaker 2: glass and finding them and then figuring out how to

1077
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:56,440
Speaker 2: get to them and get by all those eyeballs, and

1078
00:55:56,560 --> 00:55:58,719
Speaker 2: so a lot of times they'll bet up on those

1079
00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:02,239
Speaker 2: big hope and faces, and so it can be you know,

1080
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:04,919
Speaker 2: even though it's not usually too difficult to find the elk,

1081
00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:08,040
Speaker 2: like actually getting within range of them can be a

1082
00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:10,799
Speaker 2: bit of a challenge, but it's fun.

1083
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:12,600
Speaker 1: How far are you shooting with your muzzle? Are you

1084
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:14,600
Speaker 1: using like a flint lock? Correct?

1085
00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:19,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, with a flint lock one hundred yards and less. Okay, yeah,

1086
00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:22,799
Speaker 2: and preferably you know, seventy or eight year and less,

1087
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:25,160
Speaker 2: you know, but if I need to, I can put

1088
00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:26,239
Speaker 2: I can push it out to one.

1089
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:29,040
Speaker 1: Hundred Are you using it like a round ball and

1090
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:31,120
Speaker 1: a patch or I have.

1091
00:56:31,239 --> 00:56:35,719
Speaker 2: I've killed multiple elk with a patched ball, But I

1092
00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:38,759
Speaker 2: like the little they're called Maxi balls. It's just a

1093
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:43,680
Speaker 2: little conical bullet, yep, because my uh, they're super super

1094
00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:46,640
Speaker 2: simple to get tight groups Like I can shoot on

1095
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:49,239
Speaker 2: a bench. I can shoot a three inch group at

1096
00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:52,960
Speaker 2: one hundred yards consistently with a Maxi ball, and I

1097
00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:55,359
Speaker 2: can't do that with a patch round ball. Now there's

1098
00:56:55,360 --> 00:56:58,479
Speaker 2: other guys that can, like they you know, they're paying

1099
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:01,120
Speaker 2: super close attention to the thickness of their patches and

1100
00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:03,160
Speaker 2: the amount of lube that they're putting on there, and

1101
00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:06,279
Speaker 2: the size of the ball and you know, like really

1102
00:57:06,360 --> 00:57:08,600
Speaker 2: measuring out their powder charges and all that stuff. And

1103
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:11,200
Speaker 2: I don't know, I didn't want to put that much

1104
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:15,080
Speaker 2: effort into getting good groups out of patch balls because

1105
00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:16,680
Speaker 2: those Maxi balls are just super simple.

1106
00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:19,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, And what do you think performance wise? You think

1107
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:22,360
Speaker 1: the bullet performance as far as damage it does, is

1108
00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:24,560
Speaker 1: better on a Maxi ball than a round ball.

1109
00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:29,280
Speaker 2: They're certainly heavier, like way heavier. I don't remember what

1110
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:31,400
Speaker 2: the I think they're like two hundred and eighty grains

1111
00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:34,720
Speaker 2: or something like that for a Maxi ball and a

1112
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:38,439
Speaker 2: round balls maybe one eighty if I could be wrong

1113
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:41,440
Speaker 2: on that, but I think that's right. But you know,

1114
00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:44,640
Speaker 2: a round ball will will mushroom out and flatten out.

1115
00:57:44,640 --> 00:57:47,520
Speaker 2: And I've I've, like I said, I've killed multiple elk.

1116
00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:50,480
Speaker 2: I think two or three elk with a patch round

1117
00:57:50,560 --> 00:57:55,080
Speaker 2: ball and a couple with the Maxi balls or the

1118
00:57:55,080 --> 00:57:57,200
Speaker 2: Buffalo bullets. I used to shoot those, but they're like

1119
00:57:57,280 --> 00:58:01,040
Speaker 2: super They're like almost four hundred grains, like you're holdover

1120
00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:05,040
Speaker 2: at one hundred yards is pretty significant. But they all,

1121
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:06,960
Speaker 2: they all work really well.

1122
00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:13,040
Speaker 1: Nice, Nice, I think we've got time for one more question.

1123
00:58:13,520 --> 00:58:16,240
Speaker 1: Let's take a look here. Tips for a solo hunter

1124
00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:19,920
Speaker 1: where the bull hangs up just out of range, out

1125
00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:21,880
Speaker 1: of range and sight, and you don't have the luxury

1126
00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:25,760
Speaker 1: of having someone called behind you calling, so the bulls

1127
00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:28,320
Speaker 1: hung up, you don't have a caller behind you. What

1128
00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:30,560
Speaker 1: what would you typically do.

1129
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:37,640
Speaker 2: Well in that situation. The first thing I'd say is

1130
00:58:37,640 --> 00:58:40,120
Speaker 2: an ounce of prevention is worth more than a sound

1131
00:58:40,160 --> 00:58:43,760
Speaker 2: of cure. And so really paying attention to how you

1132
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:45,320
Speaker 2: set up and where you set and you can't all

1133
00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:47,800
Speaker 2: you know, you can't always do that. You don't always

1134
00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:51,440
Speaker 2: have the luxury of picking exactly where you want to be.

1135
00:58:52,040 --> 00:58:54,200
Speaker 2: But if you do, you know, if you have the

1136
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:57,400
Speaker 2: time and the luxury to do that. Look at those

1137
00:58:58,000 --> 00:58:59,960
Speaker 2: site windows. If you're if you're sitting in an air

1138
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:05,000
Speaker 2: and you can and there's a lane that goes one

1139
00:59:05,080 --> 00:59:08,320
Speaker 2: hundred yards towards in the direction somewhat in the direction

1140
00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:10,520
Speaker 2: of that bull, Well he's going to walk to that

1141
00:59:10,680 --> 00:59:13,040
Speaker 2: lane and look at you from one hundred yards away.

1142
00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:15,880
Speaker 2: And like you said earlier, she's not going to come

1143
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:18,360
Speaker 2: closer if there's no reason for him to come closer.

1144
00:59:18,520 --> 00:59:21,800
Speaker 2: If he can't see an elk butt sticking out in

1145
00:59:21,880 --> 00:59:23,760
Speaker 2: that lane or something, he's not going to come to closer.

1146
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:28,320
Speaker 2: And so doing everything you can to set yourself up

1147
00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:31,640
Speaker 2: in a position where he has to come to within

1148
00:59:31,800 --> 00:59:38,120
Speaker 2: range to see that you're calling location, that would be ideal.

1149
00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:41,120
Speaker 2: You know, in a situation where you just can't do

1150
00:59:41,240 --> 00:59:44,480
Speaker 2: that and you're getting like he's seeing your calling location

1151
00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:47,960
Speaker 2: from out of range, what I would do is just

1152
00:59:48,120 --> 00:59:50,480
Speaker 2: let him walk away and try to try to come

1153
00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:53,600
Speaker 2: back into him from another angle, same way I would

1154
00:59:53,720 --> 00:59:56,400
Speaker 2: with a turkey or a gobb where that's hung up.

1155
00:59:57,160 --> 01:00:00,680
Speaker 2: You know, I wouldn't walk to him. I wouldn't walk

1156
01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:03,680
Speaker 2: straight to him and from that same direction and try

1157
01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:06,280
Speaker 2: to pull him straight back that way. It seems like

1158
01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:08,600
Speaker 2: that doesn't work for me. But if you come at

1159
01:00:08,680 --> 01:00:10,640
Speaker 2: him from a different direction, it seems like that would work.

1160
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:11,720
Speaker 2: That works a little bit better.

1161
01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:13,640
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, that's great.

1162
01:00:13,800 --> 01:00:14,280
Speaker 2: What do you think?

1163
01:00:16,440 --> 01:00:19,200
Speaker 1: I think? That's I like that what a lot of

1164
01:00:19,240 --> 01:00:21,880
Speaker 1: times what I'll do is, you know, I don't have

1165
01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:25,760
Speaker 1: I feel like you're a pretty patient person. I may

1166
01:00:25,880 --> 01:00:29,080
Speaker 1: not have those kind of patients, but I agree hundred

1167
01:00:29,080 --> 01:00:32,280
Speaker 1: percent like that you know your setups everything, but it's

1168
01:00:32,320 --> 01:00:35,680
Speaker 1: not always ideal. It just sometimes it just happens quick,

1169
01:00:35,840 --> 01:00:38,040
Speaker 1: a lot quicker than you anticipate or not where you

1170
01:00:38,360 --> 01:00:41,200
Speaker 1: hope to have it happen. And the bull comes in

1171
01:00:41,320 --> 01:00:47,360
Speaker 1: and he hangs up, and like you said, like if

1172
01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:49,800
Speaker 1: you have that little stalemate for long enough, that bull

1173
01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:53,600
Speaker 1: will finally kind of turn around a walk off. I

1174
01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:55,880
Speaker 1: like to try to do something, make something happen before

1175
01:00:55,880 --> 01:00:58,520
Speaker 1: he does that, because just like you said, once he

1176
01:00:58,680 --> 01:01:01,360
Speaker 1: kind of walks off and you go straight at him again.

1177
01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:05,080
Speaker 1: A lot of times he's just like, you're a coward.

1178
01:01:05,440 --> 01:01:08,480
Speaker 1: I've this ain't happening. I'm done, I'm done with you.

1179
01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:10,720
Speaker 1: I feel like that they make up their mind the decision,

1180
01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:14,280
Speaker 1: and then there's no amount of like effort that you're

1181
01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:16,160
Speaker 1: going to get them to once they turn and leave

1182
01:01:16,480 --> 01:01:19,520
Speaker 1: to get them to come back. So coming at him

1183
01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:21,560
Speaker 1: a different angle, I've never tried that. I'll have to

1184
01:01:21,600 --> 01:01:24,640
Speaker 1: add that to my list of stuff I've always you know,

1185
01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:26,280
Speaker 1: tried to go out of. But what a you typically

1186
01:01:26,360 --> 01:01:29,400
Speaker 1: do before they leaves. I feel like as things start

1187
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:32,120
Speaker 1: kind of slowing down, let's say he was just hot

1188
01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:34,680
Speaker 1: to trot and he came on pretty quick, but now

1189
01:01:34,840 --> 01:01:36,640
Speaker 1: he's hung up. He don't want to come and he

1190
01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:39,520
Speaker 1: now he's bugling less frequently. He's been there for ten minutes.

1191
01:01:39,560 --> 01:01:42,120
Speaker 1: The wind's been good. You know, he'd bugle and rake.

1192
01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:44,919
Speaker 1: I bugle and rake, but he's just not breaking loose.

1193
01:01:45,840 --> 01:01:49,960
Speaker 1: A lot of times I will I will give a

1194
01:01:50,080 --> 01:01:56,600
Speaker 1: big nasty bugle or chuckle or typically, especially if he's

1195
01:01:56,640 --> 01:01:58,080
Speaker 1: barked a lot of times they'll get there and they'll

1196
01:01:58,120 --> 01:02:01,760
Speaker 1: kind of bark. They haven't smell anything, they haven't seen

1197
01:02:01,800 --> 01:02:04,120
Speaker 1: anything that make him spook there. I think it's the

1198
01:02:04,160 --> 01:02:06,760
Speaker 1: bark is more of a like like, hey, man, show yourself.

1199
01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:09,000
Speaker 1: Like I've come all this way, it's your turn to,

1200
01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:12,200
Speaker 1: you know, show your cards. And a lot of times

1201
01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:15,600
Speaker 1: I'll bark and scream. If he's been screaming the whole time,

1202
01:02:15,680 --> 01:02:17,800
Speaker 1: or if he's been chuckling the whole time, then I'll

1203
01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:19,720
Speaker 1: bark and chuckle at him. Just kind of depends on

1204
01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:22,480
Speaker 1: what he's been doing. I'll bark and then do X

1205
01:02:22,640 --> 01:02:25,120
Speaker 1: whatever he's been doing. And then I'll move up real

1206
01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:28,000
Speaker 1: fast and I'll break a whole bunch of brush. I'll

1207
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:30,320
Speaker 1: try to step on every broke dead stick, I can

1208
01:02:30,520 --> 01:02:32,800
Speaker 1: towards him, so I'll make sure that there's you know,

1209
01:02:32,920 --> 01:02:34,920
Speaker 1: this only works is if I can't see him and

1210
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:37,160
Speaker 1: he can't see me, there's a you know, a real

1211
01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:39,200
Speaker 1: thick for a tree or whatever between him and him

1212
01:02:39,240 --> 01:02:41,600
Speaker 1: and I, and I'll move up. Let's say he's fifty yards,

1213
01:02:41,880 --> 01:02:44,600
Speaker 1: I'll move twenty five, and then at the last second,

1214
01:02:44,640 --> 01:02:47,640
Speaker 1: I'll veer off to the left or right to wherever

1215
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:49,880
Speaker 1: I think whichever direction I think he's going to maybe

1216
01:02:49,960 --> 01:02:52,320
Speaker 1: want to pop out on. But I want to quite

1217
01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:55,520
Speaker 1: expose myself. As soon as I get there, I'll pull

1218
01:02:55,560 --> 01:02:58,440
Speaker 1: an arrow out and knock it. I typically won't run

1219
01:02:58,520 --> 01:03:00,880
Speaker 1: up there with my arrow knocked because I'm just clumsy

1220
01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:03,120
Speaker 1: and I'm afraid I'm gonna skew her myself.

1221
01:03:03,960 --> 01:03:06,480
Speaker 2: And that's a great point I was. I was thinking

1222
01:03:06,560 --> 01:03:08,040
Speaker 2: I was coming at it more from the angle of

1223
01:03:08,120 --> 01:03:10,800
Speaker 2: like you can see the bull. Okay, he can see you,

1224
01:03:11,040 --> 01:03:13,240
Speaker 2: and he'll try to make that happen. You know, he can.

1225
01:03:13,360 --> 01:03:16,440
Speaker 2: He'll make that happen. Now, if they're if they're hung up,

1226
01:03:17,040 --> 01:03:19,480
Speaker 2: you know, like you were talking about eighty yards away

1227
01:03:19,600 --> 01:03:22,920
Speaker 2: or whatever, and he's just I can't see him, then

1228
01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:26,400
Speaker 2: I'll like I'll bugle and run at him and just

1229
01:03:26,520 --> 01:03:29,280
Speaker 2: try to make try to make him, try to threaten him,

1230
01:03:29,600 --> 01:03:32,320
Speaker 2: make him think that that, oh shit, this bull's coming.

1231
01:03:33,960 --> 01:03:34,880
Speaker 2: And I've had that work.

1232
01:03:35,440 --> 01:03:37,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, me too, that that's the same thing I'm

1233
01:03:38,000 --> 01:03:38,680
Speaker 1: talking about here.

1234
01:03:38,840 --> 01:03:39,040
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1235
01:03:39,600 --> 01:03:43,120
Speaker 1: And a lot of times they'll come out broadside or

1236
01:03:44,440 --> 01:03:45,120
Speaker 1: just a little bit.

1237
01:03:45,240 --> 01:03:47,560
Speaker 2: I think they I think they do that to like

1238
01:03:47,800 --> 01:03:48,920
Speaker 2: show how big they are.

1239
01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:51,600
Speaker 1: Absolutely, that's that's what I think too. I think they

1240
01:03:51,680 --> 01:03:53,160
Speaker 1: want to be like, all right, well look at me,

1241
01:03:53,240 --> 01:03:55,480
Speaker 1: I'm big. You know if you watch like all these

1242
01:03:55,920 --> 01:03:58,840
Speaker 1: films of Elk and Yellowstone in these parks where before

1243
01:03:58,880 --> 01:04:00,800
Speaker 1: they fight, they'll sit there and they'll they'll walk up

1244
01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:02,840
Speaker 1: beside each other and kind of show off and tilt

1245
01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:05,360
Speaker 1: their racks and puff up and make themselves look big.

1246
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:07,880
Speaker 1: And I don't know that they want to fight all

1247
01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:09,400
Speaker 1: the time. I think they try to give each other

1248
01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:11,800
Speaker 1: out if they can, but then they'll fight if they

1249
01:04:11,880 --> 01:04:14,080
Speaker 1: need to. And I think that's kind of what this

1250
01:04:14,280 --> 01:04:16,480
Speaker 1: is they're going to do here. And more times than

1251
01:04:16,520 --> 01:04:20,320
Speaker 1: not it's been a broadside shot. And then sometimes I

1252
01:04:20,440 --> 01:04:24,200
Speaker 1: do that and the bull will just take off. But

1253
01:04:24,480 --> 01:04:27,000
Speaker 1: I feel like if it's like a young bull, like

1254
01:04:27,160 --> 01:04:29,560
Speaker 1: a two and a half three and a half year

1255
01:04:29,560 --> 01:04:32,200
Speaker 1: old bull, they may not hold their ground as good

1256
01:04:32,240 --> 01:04:34,360
Speaker 1: as like a big bull, like a big mature like

1257
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:37,680
Speaker 1: you know, big six point or whatever. That he kind

1258
01:04:37,720 --> 01:04:40,280
Speaker 1: of knows he's a badass, right, He's like, I know

1259
01:04:40,400 --> 01:04:42,440
Speaker 1: my place in the pecking order. I don't know you

1260
01:04:42,440 --> 01:04:45,040
Speaker 1: you know, they'll probably hold their ground a little bit better,

1261
01:04:45,120 --> 01:04:47,640
Speaker 1: at least for me. It's been that kind of a situation.

1262
01:04:48,600 --> 01:04:51,840
Speaker 1: And that's kind of a non. It's a non. It's

1263
01:04:51,880 --> 01:04:54,160
Speaker 1: a tactic. Not everybody uses a lot. They're kind of

1264
01:04:54,320 --> 01:04:55,560
Speaker 1: I think a lot of hell get used to those

1265
01:04:55,600 --> 01:04:57,600
Speaker 1: people that are the wallflower type. They'll kind of bugle

1266
01:04:57,720 --> 01:04:59,280
Speaker 1: them a little bit and they'll kind of linger back.

1267
01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:02,280
Speaker 1: And but you're acting like an elk when you did,

1268
01:05:02,320 --> 01:05:04,280
Speaker 1: and when you act like an elk, I think you

1269
01:05:04,360 --> 01:05:06,080
Speaker 1: have a better chance of maybe calling him in.

1270
01:05:06,440 --> 01:05:10,760
Speaker 2: Yeah. A had a situation just last year where I

1271
01:05:10,840 --> 01:05:13,400
Speaker 2: had a really nice bull that was had a bunch

1272
01:05:13,440 --> 01:05:16,560
Speaker 2: of cows. They were right down on a little bench

1273
01:05:16,680 --> 01:05:19,200
Speaker 2: down below us, and they were like pretty close. He

1274
01:05:19,320 --> 01:05:23,960
Speaker 2: was within fifty yards and I could not get him

1275
01:05:24,080 --> 01:05:28,040
Speaker 2: to do anything, like he wouldn't even acknowledge that I existed,

1276
01:05:28,360 --> 01:05:31,240
Speaker 2: even though his cows were kind of milling around and

1277
01:05:31,360 --> 01:05:33,320
Speaker 2: getting fairly close to me, and I was bugling like

1278
01:05:33,360 --> 01:05:36,360
Speaker 2: you didn't care. Yeah, And this was this was during

1279
01:05:36,400 --> 01:05:38,880
Speaker 2: that time when it's starting to get into that where

1280
01:05:38,920 --> 01:05:42,320
Speaker 2: he's heard some bugles from people. He's probably starting to

1281
01:05:42,880 --> 01:05:48,240
Speaker 2: transition into that like figuring things out. But I I

1282
01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:49,920
Speaker 2: sat there, and I sat there, and I sat there,

1283
01:05:49,960 --> 01:05:52,080
Speaker 2: and I watched him, and you know, if I'd had

1284
01:05:52,120 --> 01:05:54,120
Speaker 2: a if i'd had a compound, I could have killed him.

1285
01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:56,440
Speaker 2: But I'm I'm you know, I'm hunting with my my

1286
01:05:56,520 --> 01:05:58,480
Speaker 2: stick bone, and I'm so I'm sitting there watching them,

1287
01:05:59,120 --> 01:06:02,280
Speaker 2: and eventually, you know, I'd probably sit there for fifteen minutes,

1288
01:06:02,560 --> 01:06:07,200
Speaker 2: have great wind. I'm trying to get him to make

1289
01:06:07,320 --> 01:06:09,480
Speaker 2: that move, and he just never does. And eventually he

1290
01:06:09,560 --> 01:06:12,640
Speaker 2: gets his cows up and they wander off, and I'm

1291
01:06:12,640 --> 01:06:16,720
Speaker 2: thinking about it later, you know, and I'm like, I

1292
01:06:16,880 --> 01:06:24,040
Speaker 2: could have just bugled, like really aggressive bugle and probably

1293
01:06:24,200 --> 01:06:27,760
Speaker 2: just ran right at him and stood there in the

1294
01:06:27,880 --> 01:06:31,960
Speaker 2: open and had a couple two three seconds to get

1295
01:06:32,040 --> 01:06:35,400
Speaker 2: to shoot him. I almost guarantee that I could have

1296
01:06:35,480 --> 01:06:37,480
Speaker 2: done that. It's just you're in that moment, you don't

1297
01:06:37,480 --> 01:06:40,120
Speaker 2: think about those things until later, right, You're like, dang it,

1298
01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:40,880
Speaker 2: I should have tried that.

1299
01:06:42,600 --> 01:06:44,520
Speaker 1: Well, here's a crazy tactic I used one time. And

1300
01:06:44,560 --> 01:06:46,880
Speaker 1: it was really an early dawn light, like you couldn't

1301
01:06:46,880 --> 01:06:48,680
Speaker 1: even see to shoot yet. But I got pinned down

1302
01:06:48,720 --> 01:06:50,800
Speaker 1: on this old skid road and there was a bull.

1303
01:06:51,360 --> 01:06:53,680
Speaker 1: I start calling too early, you know, rookie mistake, start

1304
01:06:53,760 --> 01:06:55,960
Speaker 1: bugling at him, and it's not light enough to shoot, Like,

1305
01:06:56,200 --> 01:06:58,520
Speaker 1: never do that because usually they'll come in and it's

1306
01:06:58,720 --> 01:07:01,400
Speaker 1: you can't shoot it's too dark. But this bull, I

1307
01:07:01,440 --> 01:07:03,240
Speaker 1: could kind of see his body and he could probably

1308
01:07:03,280 --> 01:07:06,000
Speaker 1: see my body especially. Well, what I did is I

1309
01:07:06,720 --> 01:07:09,240
Speaker 1: had to get He had me pinned down, so I

1310
01:07:09,360 --> 01:07:12,440
Speaker 1: had pretty dark camo on. I put my bow up

1311
01:07:12,480 --> 01:07:15,320
Speaker 1: over my head and I just kind of moved out

1312
01:07:15,360 --> 01:07:17,680
Speaker 1: of the middle of the skid trail over into the

1313
01:07:18,440 --> 01:07:22,600
Speaker 1: pocket and he didn't spook. It's like, yeah, maybe it

1314
01:07:22,720 --> 01:07:25,080
Speaker 1: was anecdotal, but maybe he just saw that. It's like

1315
01:07:25,160 --> 01:07:28,240
Speaker 1: seeing that outline in that silhouette, like okay, yeah that's

1316
01:07:28,280 --> 01:07:31,800
Speaker 1: a bowl. Maybe not, but he never spoked, and we

1317
01:07:31,880 --> 01:07:34,440
Speaker 1: bugled around there and I never did shoot him, but

1318
01:07:34,720 --> 01:07:36,920
Speaker 1: we had a lot of fun that morning after that

1319
01:07:37,360 --> 01:07:41,800
Speaker 1: first initial encounter. But yeah, that's that's fun.

1320
01:07:42,040 --> 01:07:44,640
Speaker 2: Yeah. I just think that bowl like he was bedded

1321
01:07:44,680 --> 01:07:47,160
Speaker 2: a lot of times. I think I think I could

1322
01:07:47,200 --> 01:07:50,920
Speaker 2: have rushed him and probably his cows would have scattered,

1323
01:07:50,960 --> 01:07:52,680
Speaker 2: but he would have if I'd have bugled at him,

1324
01:07:53,360 --> 01:07:58,240
Speaker 2: he would have braced himself for another bull. Yeah, And

1325
01:07:58,920 --> 01:08:00,600
Speaker 2: I mean a lot of times takes him a few

1326
01:08:00,640 --> 01:08:03,240
Speaker 2: seconds to figure out what's.

1327
01:08:02,800 --> 01:08:06,200
Speaker 1: Going on, right, Yeah, the cows are going everywhere, and

1328
01:08:06,200 --> 01:08:08,520
Speaker 1: he's like, wait, what's going on? And then he hears

1329
01:08:08,600 --> 01:08:12,480
Speaker 1: your bugle and he's red and then he's like, oh wait,

1330
01:08:12,840 --> 01:08:13,240
Speaker 1: too late.

1331
01:08:13,480 --> 01:08:15,240
Speaker 2: But that's one of those things you're like a.

1332
01:08:16,880 --> 01:08:19,760
Speaker 1: Man, it's like do we try it? Do I try it?

1333
01:08:19,960 --> 01:08:23,320
Speaker 1: I don't try it. He'll marry right last day of season, Okay,

1334
01:08:23,400 --> 01:08:23,840
Speaker 1: I'll do it.

1335
01:08:25,040 --> 01:08:27,479
Speaker 2: But I mean, hindsight, it's always it's always clear what

1336
01:08:27,560 --> 01:08:28,639
Speaker 2: you should have done. Yeah.

1337
01:08:29,200 --> 01:08:31,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, man, I want to thank you a lot

1338
01:08:31,080 --> 01:08:34,000
Speaker 1: for coming on today and and talking el hunting. I think,

1339
01:08:34,439 --> 01:08:36,639
Speaker 1: like I kind of talked alluded to in the beginning

1340
01:08:36,640 --> 01:08:39,320
Speaker 1: of the conversation, I feel like we we hunt quite

1341
01:08:39,320 --> 01:08:43,400
Speaker 1: a bit different. But there's little places that tactics cross over.

1342
01:08:44,520 --> 01:08:47,120
Speaker 1: So and I always tell people, you know, don't just

1343
01:08:48,040 --> 01:08:51,800
Speaker 1: don't just load your quiver with one person's tactics. Listen

1344
01:08:51,840 --> 01:08:54,719
Speaker 1: to everybody. There's something to learn from everyone, and something

1345
01:08:54,720 --> 01:08:57,320
Speaker 1: to learn every elk season out there. And take those

1346
01:08:57,880 --> 01:08:59,479
Speaker 1: take all those things to learn and kind of put

1347
01:08:59,520 --> 01:09:02,160
Speaker 1: them together in your in your quiver. And and when

1348
01:09:02,160 --> 01:09:04,799
Speaker 1: you go out hunting, you'll have you'll have more ideas

1349
01:09:04,880 --> 01:09:07,280
Speaker 1: of what to do when things don't go as planned,

1350
01:09:07,320 --> 01:09:13,200
Speaker 1: which is most of the time. Right And and as always,

1351
01:09:13,240 --> 01:09:15,800
Speaker 1: if you guys have any questions for the podcast, just

1352
01:09:15,880 --> 01:09:18,720
Speaker 1: call in, leave your name on that, or leave your

1353
01:09:18,760 --> 01:09:22,000
Speaker 1: name and number on the super Secret hotline number three

1354
01:09:22,120 --> 01:09:25,600
Speaker 1: minutes or less. Give us your question. We'll answer it

1355
01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:28,160
Speaker 1: on the line here on air, or send it into

1356
01:09:28,439 --> 01:09:32,720
Speaker 1: CTD at Phelpsgame Calls dot com. One more thing, Where

1357
01:09:32,840 --> 01:09:33,600
Speaker 1: can people find you?

1358
01:09:35,080 --> 01:09:41,000
Speaker 2: YouTube? Just search Clays or on Instagram plays Hunter. Have

1359
01:09:41,120 --> 01:09:43,719
Speaker 2: a Facebook page as well, but I avoid that place

1360
01:09:43,920 --> 01:09:48,280
Speaker 2: like the plague, mostly Instagram and Facebook or Instagram and YouTube.

1361
01:09:48,439 --> 01:09:51,080
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, and you got a website too, right, Yeah.

1362
01:09:50,920 --> 01:09:53,720
Speaker 2: It's Twistedstay dot com. I've got some books up there

1363
01:09:53,840 --> 01:09:57,360
Speaker 2: and some like b Building Resources and things like that.

1364
01:09:58,439 --> 01:10:00,600
Speaker 1: Awesome. All right, well thanks again for coming on.

1365
01:10:00,720 --> 01:10:19,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, have a good time. M