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Speaker 1: And now move the sticks with Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks.

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Speaker 1: What's up, everybody? Welcome to move the sticks. DJ Buck

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Speaker 1: with you, Buck? What is going on man.

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Speaker 2: Man, Not too much, just trying to get it all done.

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Speaker 2: DJ low past the draft, got a little writing to do.

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Speaker 2: We got the pot. It's all good though. You know

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Speaker 2: what time of the year it is.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I've got one week till I've got a

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Speaker 1: little over a week till I have to have my

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Speaker 1: one fifty done. So that's you know, my final project there.

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Speaker 1: So I've been working on that, getting stuff organ I

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Speaker 1: still watching some pop up guys, some workout guys, which

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Speaker 1: has been which has been a fun exercise, but it's exciting,

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Speaker 1: you know, looking at the teams more now this time too,

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Speaker 1: just kind of dialing in on teams, talking to people,

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Speaker 1: and some things start to crystallize a little bit.

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Speaker 3: Buck.

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Speaker 1: As you get towards the end, you kind of think, like, man,

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Speaker 1: this is just a big mushroom cloud, have no idea

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Speaker 1: what's going to go on here? And then at the

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Speaker 1: end start hearing okay, man, they're off this guy, they're

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Speaker 1: on that guy. You know, stuff like that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, is funny when we get to it, because I

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Speaker 2: feel like we're going this big old journey, right we

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Speaker 2: start where we think about players, then we kind of

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Speaker 2: go around and we look at tape and we get

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Speaker 2: this and Buddy started chiming in, and then you kind

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Speaker 2: of get back to where you started at the end

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Speaker 2: of the process. And we've talked about this a few

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Speaker 2: different times. I feel like that also happens in front office.

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Speaker 2: I think as you kind of sit down and you

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Speaker 2: get quiet, you get away from like the group think,

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Speaker 2: and you start like, who are the guys that we

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Speaker 2: really like? Like, who are the guys that we go

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Speaker 2: back with this check out notes? Who are the ones

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Speaker 2: that we absolutely like that we we can fall in

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Speaker 2: love with. I think that's when you do your best job.

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Speaker 2: Those are the guys that you really wanted the team.

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Speaker 2: You can't be swayed by. I would say, like some

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Speaker 2: of the outside opinions that are kind of buzzing and

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Speaker 2: circulating as we get closer to the draft.

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Speaker 1: No doubt. Uh, that's one true. I've got a couple

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Speaker 1: things I want to hit on. Today's going to get

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Speaker 1: to some underrated players, some polarizing players. I've got three

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Speaker 1: this guy, that guy, conversations I want to have with

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Speaker 1: you on Day two, Like I think these are day

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Speaker 1: twoquestions that are fun ones.

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Speaker 3: I want to get to that first though. I want

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Speaker 3: to hit this.

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Speaker 1: It's time for Hot or Not, brought to you by

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Speaker 1: WSABI Hot Cloud Storage Buck. I was thinking of the

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Speaker 1: themes of this draft, like let's just we'll get into

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Speaker 1: some individual stuff here, but I wanted to get the

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Speaker 1: thirty thousand foot view. And so these are the three

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Speaker 1: that I came up with. And I'll be curious to

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Speaker 1: see if you think there's other themes that kind of

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Speaker 1: summarize this draft or what kind of encapsulates this draft.

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Speaker 1: So the three themes I had, and I've hitting on

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Speaker 1: a couple of these throughout Starters not stars, right, like

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Speaker 1: this is a team. I was talking to a GM

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Speaker 1: the other day, a buddy of both of ours, and

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Speaker 1: he was talking about, we feel like we can upgrade

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Speaker 1: the bottom of our roster and fortify and strengthen the

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Speaker 1: middle of our roster and maybe not our top guys,

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Speaker 1: maybe these aren't going to be our key core stud guys,

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Speaker 1: but we're going to get better in the back end

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Speaker 1: and in the middle of our roster in this draft,

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Speaker 1: so starters not stars, traits versus production. You got to

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Speaker 1: figure out which side of the aisle you fall on

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Speaker 1: that topic, especially think about these pass rushers. And lastly, Buck,

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Speaker 1: I wrote down positional value versus quality of player, Like

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Speaker 1: these are the three.

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Speaker 3: Themes that I came up with for this draft.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm with you on that.

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Speaker 2: I've heard people talk about the level of draft a

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Speaker 2: few different ways, and he talked about like really good

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Speaker 2: not great, Like you have a lot of really good players,

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Speaker 2: only a handful of great players, and so you need

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Speaker 2: to pick accordingly. So I believe you can get solid starters,

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Speaker 2: maybe even high end starters, but in terms of the

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Speaker 2: game change your difference maker transcendent talents not as many

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Speaker 2: as we've seen in some drafts. When it comes down

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Speaker 2: to positional value and player, I think evaluators have to

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Speaker 2: be really, really careful to not get so caught up

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Speaker 2: in positional value that you elevate a guy at a

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Speaker 2: position that is important over top of someone who is

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Speaker 2: a better player. And I think you just have to

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Speaker 2: keep that and I think that happens all the time.

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Speaker 2: And then the last thing is, so many of these

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Speaker 2: guys have bounced around transfers, you're trying to follow the

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Speaker 2: odyssey and those things. I think it's really important to

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Speaker 2: understand what did they learn along the way.

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Speaker 4: We've talked about that quarterbacks.

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Speaker 2: We kind of like our quarterbacks that have a little

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Speaker 2: scuff on them to have gone through some adversity and

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Speaker 2: come on the other side. Well, with these other players,

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Speaker 2: what have they learned all their journeys where they had

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Speaker 2: to mounce around and find the right spot for them.

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Speaker 2: I think all those things are important, But from a

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Speaker 2: whatever thirty thousand point perspective, yeah, I mean you have

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Speaker 2: to certainly understand, like where these guys are, what the

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Speaker 2: class is, and make sure that you make decisions based

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Speaker 2: on who this class really is, not what we want

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Speaker 2: them to be.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And you know, I also think I'll get your

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Speaker 1: take on it, but this feels like a stick and

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Speaker 1: pick draft. It doesn't feel like there's enough enticement there

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Speaker 1: for a lot of movement, you know, at least not

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Speaker 1: in the in the first round.

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Speaker 4: I'm with you, I don't you know.

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Speaker 2: It's funny because you know, on TV we get asked

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Speaker 2: to do trades and all this all the time. You like,

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Speaker 2: there has to be someone that you're trading for there

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Speaker 2: has to be a player or really a player or

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Speaker 2: need that you have that is a must have, got

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Speaker 2: to get this player to fill it. I don't feel

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Speaker 2: it strongly about that in this class. This is one

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Speaker 2: where and we talked about this. I think last year's draft,

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Speaker 2: the smart teams are looking ahead to not only twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty five, but twenty twenty six, twenty twenty seven and saying, hey,

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Speaker 2: I'll auction off some of these picks later in the

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Speaker 2: draft to get more at a future date. I think

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Speaker 2: more teams are going to get to the fourth round and.

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Speaker 4: Be like, yeah, we're good. We're good for today, we're good.

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Speaker 2: We'll move on to next weekend because there is this

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Speaker 2: thing where it falls off. You just want to make

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Speaker 2: sure that you're bringing players that literally give you a

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Speaker 2: chance to upgrade your roster, not guys that just fill

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Speaker 2: holes in the fill up spots on the roster.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: No, it's a really good thought there. I also along

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Speaker 1: those lines, was talking to someone the other day and

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Speaker 1: he was talking about his team and saying, you know,

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Speaker 1: one of the key strengths for our team is that

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Speaker 1: we know and this is something you've brought up in

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Speaker 1: the past but he said, we know who our developmental

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Speaker 1: coaches are. Because I was saying I was like, hey,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm doing all these pop up guys, and

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Speaker 1: you know these guys are potentially like seventh round PFA types,

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Speaker 1: you know, and people have different strategies on that. Do

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Speaker 1: you try and get a special teams player that can

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Speaker 1: come in help you right away? Do you get a

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Speaker 1: trade syat you know, small school kid. We just you know,

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Speaker 1: want raw develop and you'll take your time with them.

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Speaker 1: Do you take the quarterback flyers as you know teams

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Speaker 1: been wont to do. And he said, you know, and

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Speaker 1: this team's been successful, and he said one of the

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Speaker 1: keys our success is we know our developmental coaches. We

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Speaker 1: know the guys that we can bring in at certain

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Speaker 1: positions that our coaches can develop. So and he can

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Speaker 1: of you know, those are those are the positions we're

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Speaker 1: going to look at late in the draft and we're

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Speaker 1: just going to get the raw tools.

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Speaker 2: He guys, Well, I mean one of the things we've

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Speaker 2: talked about the job as a gender manager is not

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Speaker 2: only to you know, scout players and to scout the scouts,

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Speaker 2: but it's also to scout the coaches the draft and

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Speaker 2: developed strategy never works if you do the developmental part

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Speaker 2: of and so when you say, hey, this is how

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Speaker 2: we're going to build our team, it's going to be

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Speaker 2: a homegrown team organization.

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Speaker 4: This is what we're going to do.

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Speaker 2: Well, the people that touch the players need to be

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Speaker 2: really good at developing the players.

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Speaker 4: Otherwise you're spending your wheels.

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Speaker 2: And that requires everyone to not only listen to what

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Speaker 2: the coaches say in meetings when they're reading their own reports,

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Speaker 2: but it's observing what they've done with the players they've

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Speaker 2: been given. Can they turn a C player into a

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Speaker 2: B player through the diligent work that they do on

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Speaker 2: the practice field? Can they help a practice squad player

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Speaker 2: get ready to play quickly at the end of the

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Speaker 2: year when we see this happen all the time, that

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Speaker 2: the bottom of the roster players are playing vital roles

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Speaker 2: on playoff runs just because of the attrition of the season.

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Speaker 2: It is really important that you know your coaches and

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Speaker 2: that your coaches are great teachers, great developers if you're

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Speaker 2: going to subscribe to that theory.

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Speaker 4: So, yeah, I agree with you, buddy when he talks

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Speaker 4: about that the coaches.

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Speaker 3: Well, i'll tell you later. It's also your all right.

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Speaker 1: That was this week's Hot or Not segment, brought to

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Speaker 1: you by with Sabbi Hot Cloud Storage, store more and

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Speaker 1: do more with your data. Try them for free at

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Speaker 1: withsabby dot com. Buck I touched on it at the

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Speaker 1: top Polarizing Players. I tweeted this out the other day,

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Speaker 1: and I thought we could kind of go through each

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Speaker 1: of these players individually, because not only the discussion on them,

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Speaker 1: but there's other players and other discussions that take place,

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Speaker 1: and for those that you know, want to peek behind

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Speaker 1: the curtain. At this point time, majority of the teams,

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Speaker 1: vast majority, are in their final meetings. They're getting everything

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Speaker 1: set up. This is the you know, kind of the

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Speaker 1: week that they're polishing it up and getting the board

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Speaker 1: set in place. And you have coaches who've had a

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Speaker 1: chance to go work these guys out, spend time with them,

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Speaker 1: get to know the person as well as the player.

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Speaker 1: And you've got the scouts in there and they're all

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Speaker 1: kind of scrimmaging this stuff out and so and talking

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Speaker 1: to a bunch of teams. These are the names that

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Speaker 1: I that I came up with were inside these individual buildings,

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Speaker 1: not saying just this team for that team, I'm saying

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Speaker 1: inside the building, They've got wide range of grades. It's

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Speaker 1: Ted McMillan, the receiver from Arizona. It's donovanz roku edge

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Speaker 1: rusher from Boston College. It's Revel the corner from ECU,

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Speaker 1: Shordan Birch the edge rusher, big jumbo EDG Dresher from Oregon.

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Speaker 1: And it's Jalen Milroe, quarterback from Alabama.

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Speaker 4: M interesting list.

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Speaker 1: So can you see I'm gonna I'm gonna give you

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Speaker 1: the player and I can tell you you know what

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Speaker 1: the discussion is. But I'm curious with your what you

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Speaker 1: think it would be. What do you think the issue

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Speaker 1: would be. Let's start with McMillan. Why would people love

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Speaker 1: him and some people not love him?

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Speaker 2: I think they would love the size, the athleticism, the

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Speaker 2: acrobatic plays, the flashes that you see on tape, that

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Speaker 2: Legia believed that he could be a dominant playmaker at

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Speaker 2: the next level. Why they would hate him or have

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Speaker 2: questions about him? The urgency and the consistent dominance isn't there?

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Speaker 2: You would like you kind of need to get him going.

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Speaker 2: You want to get the poker to him and be like, man,

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Speaker 2: you could be such a dominant player, if you would

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Speaker 2: bring the energy and effort every play. He doesn't do that.

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Speaker 2: He's more of what we call a cruiser. He's been

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Speaker 2: good enough. He's been better than everybody athletically, so he

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Speaker 2: just does enough to dominate without knowing how hard he

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Speaker 2: has to work to really be a dominant player at

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Speaker 2: the next level. Maybe it can be taught, or maybe

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Speaker 2: he is what he is and he's going to continue

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Speaker 2: to be that as a pro. That would be the

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Speaker 2: scary part. If I'm in the room, you nailed it.

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Speaker 1: The term that was used with one of the teams

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Speaker 1: I talked to was cruise control. Like I just worry

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Speaker 1: about the guy who's always on cruise control, Like I

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Speaker 1: don't see him doll it up. I worry about him

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Speaker 1: getting off press. I worry about him fighting through what

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Speaker 1: he's got to fight through at the catch point, and

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Speaker 1: like he's an incredible, you know, acrobatic athlete. And you know,

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Speaker 1: it was funny people have looking at the same thing

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Speaker 1: and come away with different takeaways. And I laugh about

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Speaker 1: it a little bit because you even hear a positive, right.

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Speaker 1: I think we don't know if he talked about this before,

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Speaker 1: but hey, he's got a volleyball background that shows up

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Speaker 1: and how athletic.

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Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, and then.

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Speaker 1: You know what else you hear he's got a volleyball back.

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Speaker 1: He's a volleyball player, Like he's not really is he

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Speaker 1: a dog? Yes, exactly. So that's just those are the

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Speaker 1: discussions taking place in the room, and you got to

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Speaker 1: figure out where you land on it. I probably come

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Speaker 1: down somewhere in the middle. I still have him as

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Speaker 1: a top twenty player in the draft, you know, DJ,

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Speaker 1: I think the expectation was going into the Yearbuck that

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Speaker 1: this was going to be a top five pick.

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Speaker 4: It was that was the expectation.

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Speaker 2: In fact, I started the process thinking that he was

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Speaker 2: going to be a top five, top ten player given that,

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Speaker 2: because I think when I close my eyes, I envisioned him.

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Speaker 4: Being Mike Evans.

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Speaker 2: He's not, I know, but I envisioned him being someone

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Speaker 2: that's big and fast and physical, that dominates like that.

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Speaker 2: But that's not what he is, you know, but that's

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Speaker 2: what you would You would hope that someone who has

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Speaker 2: those tools, been given those tools off the assembly line

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Speaker 2: will become a player like Mike Evans has become a

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Speaker 2: dominant player.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think some of that is if that was

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Speaker 1: your image going into the process. You came away from

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Speaker 1: it and being like ah man. But if you just

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Speaker 1: went with the blank slate and just watched him as

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Speaker 1: who he is and what he is, you'd be.

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Speaker 3: Like, it's a good player. He is a good player.

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Speaker 2: He is, he is a good player. You wonder where

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Speaker 2: he tops out at? Look for me, everything is about

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Speaker 2: where he.

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Speaker 4: Goes and who is his position? Coach?

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Speaker 2: Who's the one that can unlock a little more?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, let's get to the next one here,

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Speaker 1: Eziraku who I'm a fan of? And I can five

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Speaker 1: found teams that are in GMS and coaches that are sponsors,

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Speaker 1: and I found gms and coaches that are skeptical. And

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Speaker 1: I'll kick it to you. What do you think the

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Speaker 1: what do you think the difference is there?

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Speaker 2: The people that love him, they love the motor, they

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Speaker 2: love a production and just the relentlessness that you see

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Speaker 2: him play with. The people that are anti the link

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Speaker 2: or the size, the packaging doesn't necessarily fit, and you

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Speaker 2: wonder what is he going to give you on those other.

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Speaker 4: Downs that are not passing down?

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Speaker 2: Like can't he stay on the field and hold his

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Speaker 2: own on the edges? When you need him to be

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Speaker 2: that every down player.

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Speaker 1: So it's close. I mean, he's got he's got long arms.

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Speaker 1: He's one of those unique guys where he's six to

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Speaker 1: two but he has length. So he's got the long arms.

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Speaker 1: The concern really is just he doesn't have power. So

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Speaker 1: and again, like I think this is an interesting way

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Speaker 1: to frame these because you can say the same thing

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Speaker 1: and come away with a different conclusion. He wins a

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Speaker 1: lot of different ways. I like because he has a

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Speaker 1: lot of different ways to get to the quarterback, but

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Speaker 1: power and ruggedness is not one of them. And I

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Speaker 1: was talking to a coach. You brought up a point

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Speaker 1: and was like, hey, he needs fewer pitches, like you know,

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Speaker 1: like all these pitches are great, but you you know,

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Speaker 1: he needs too many. He has too many. He needs

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Speaker 1: to be able to win, like watch the NFL, which

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Speaker 1: power is a big part of how you win in

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Speaker 1: the NFL. You have to be able to collapse and

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Speaker 1: crush the pocket. So he's got to develop that. Can

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Speaker 1: he develop that? And my thing was I think that

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Speaker 1: there's you know, we talked about the tight entry a

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Speaker 1: while ago, and you have kind of like the Gronk tree,

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Speaker 1: the Kelsey tree of the different styles of guys. And

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Speaker 1: we've talked about craftsmen on here a lot about pass

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Speaker 1: rushers who are craftsmen.

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Speaker 3: But if you look at it, those guys don't.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't happen right away because they've been able to

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Speaker 1: use all these different tricks in college. Like Trey Hendrickson,

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Speaker 1: look at his sack totals his first few years in

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Speaker 1: the league. It took a couple of years before it hit,

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Speaker 1: and then it hit big. I think last year we

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Speaker 1: would be on the same page and say Leatu Latu

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Speaker 1: was the most gifted skilled pass rusher, but that didn't

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Speaker 1: click right away because all that stuff doesn't always translate.

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Speaker 1: You've got to figure out what works now. I think

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Speaker 1: all three of these guys are smart, and I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, obviously Hendrickson's blown it up. He's figured it

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Speaker 1: out and become a great player. I think Latu is

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Speaker 1: going to get there. He's not there yet. And I

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Speaker 1: think with Israraku, I think the same thing. I think

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Speaker 1: he's got some he can play with some leverage. He's

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Speaker 1: just he needs to work on power and just and

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Speaker 1: convert that power. But I like him a lot. I

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Speaker 1: you know, I think he's got a chance, there's teams

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Speaker 1: that like him. I think he's got a chance. It

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Speaker 1: could be a top twenty pick. I've looked at Tampa.

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Speaker 1: But that's the conversation on him.

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Speaker 2: The thing about that when someone is more finesse than force,

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Speaker 2: you do wonder what happens when he meets that mountain

341
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Speaker 2: of a man that can sit down on him and

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Speaker 2: not let him get to his go to move. What

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Speaker 2: is the alternative If you can't just race around the edge,

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Speaker 2: if you can't out wiggle him, what do you have.

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Speaker 2: The guys who are balanced in terms of being able

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Speaker 2: to turn speed into power, they can win with force

347
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Speaker 2: or finess. They're the ones that consistently rings up ring

348
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Speaker 2: up twelve thirteen, fourteen sacks because they have a few

349
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Speaker 2: different ways to get there. Not saying that he's a

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Speaker 2: one trick pony, but he certainly has to have the

351
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Speaker 2: game tilted a certain way for him to have success

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Speaker 2: coming off the edgees.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's you know, that's going to be the challenge

354
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Speaker 1: that you got to figure that out. Chavon Ravel a

355
00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:54,480
Speaker 1: corner from ECU. I mean, look, he's coming off of injury,

356
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Speaker 1: so he hasn't been healthy through the year with the ACL,

357
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Speaker 1: so that's you know, that's a big part of that discussion.

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Speaker 1: I also think there's just some teams that don't like

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Speaker 1: the taller, legier corner, So a lot of that's going

360
00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:09,480
Speaker 1: to be usage, I think with his debate.

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00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:12,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, scheme pit is everything for him, but also DJ

362
00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:16,520
Speaker 2: here's the other i'lle be surprised that people haven't talked about,

363
00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:18,720
Speaker 2: like his history. If you really look at his history,

364
00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:20,440
Speaker 2: you're coming out of high school, going to a Juco,

365
00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:24,120
Speaker 2: going to Louisburg, making his way to East Carolina playing

366
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Speaker 2: that one year, didn't getting hurt this year. There's not

367
00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:31,440
Speaker 2: an extensive resume that you can really like lean on.

368
00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:33,560
Speaker 2: When we talk about him being a first round pick

369
00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:36,080
Speaker 2: or top of the second round pick, it is definitely

370
00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:38,360
Speaker 2: more projection than anything.

371
00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:41,520
Speaker 4: And part of that projection is how are we going

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Speaker 4: to use him? How does he fit in the scheme

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Speaker 4: that we run?

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Speaker 2: And I would expect he would be on so many

375
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Speaker 2: different places, on different boards.

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Speaker 4: Tended on what scheme they play.

377
00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:55,600
Speaker 2: To me, he's the old school Seattle type corner, the

378
00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:59,120
Speaker 2: old school Sherman Brandon Brown or that gout super long.

379
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Speaker 1: We'll see though, We'll see where he fits yep. I

380
00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:04,760
Speaker 1: think he goes on day two. I think he'll go

381
00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:08,160
Speaker 1: in the second round next one. Jordan Birch from Oregon.

382
00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:12,600
Speaker 1: You know he's six four one two sixty nine four

383
00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:16,600
Speaker 1: sixty seven. This discussion, Buck is kind of a tweener

384
00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:18,720
Speaker 1: those that see the glass half full and those that

385
00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:22,080
Speaker 1: see it half empty. He's kind of a finesse, big

386
00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:23,879
Speaker 1: guy on the edge. He can really go. I mean

387
00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:26,240
Speaker 1: he can really really run. Some teams feel like his

388
00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:28,320
Speaker 1: best fit is gonna be what he can do as

389
00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:31,760
Speaker 1: a subrusher inside. But similar to Ziaku, I think that

390
00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:34,040
Speaker 1: discussion is just kind of like is he rugged? You know,

391
00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:35,040
Speaker 1: is he rugged enough?

392
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Speaker 2: I mean that's the thing, because that's a big part

393
00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:39,359
Speaker 2: of the game, Like you gotta have guys in trenches

394
00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:42,639
Speaker 2: that can can embrace a rock and socker robot style.

395
00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:44,320
Speaker 2: That would be the big question I would have after

396
00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:46,399
Speaker 2: looking at him on tape, like can he get down

397
00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:49,840
Speaker 2: and dirty? Can he make it physical enough if we

398
00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:52,200
Speaker 2: have to have that kind of game plan, that would

399
00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:53,480
Speaker 2: be a major question concern.

400
00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:54,439
Speaker 3: Yeah.

401
00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:59,439
Speaker 1: And then finally Jalen Milroe. Again we've talked about it.

402
00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:00,840
Speaker 1: We talked aout him a lot on here, so we

403
00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:03,360
Speaker 1: don't even go along here. But it's pretty simple. I mean,

404
00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,960
Speaker 1: you you you buy into the athletic package and you're

405
00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:11,280
Speaker 1: banking on just time and development that there's more there.

406
00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:13,600
Speaker 1: You know, he's smart, he's a good worker, he's an

407
00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:17,439
Speaker 1: incredible athlete. The main sticking point with a lot of

408
00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:20,160
Speaker 1: teams has been vision decision making. You know, just gosh,

409
00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:21,480
Speaker 1: does he see it? Does he see it?

410
00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:22,040
Speaker 3: Really? Well?

411
00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:24,919
Speaker 1: That's kind of the that's the topic that comes up

412
00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:26,600
Speaker 1: on the teams that are that aren't buying it.

413
00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:28,880
Speaker 2: It's such a hard thing because I wish I could

414
00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:31,560
Speaker 2: kind of read ahead, get to the last page of

415
00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:33,719
Speaker 2: the book to figure out where he goes, and then

416
00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:35,199
Speaker 2: I can give you a thumbs up or down on

417
00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:38,080
Speaker 2: whether I believe he'll make it. A lot of it

418
00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:41,159
Speaker 2: with Jalen Milroe is not only the athleticism and how

419
00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:43,320
Speaker 2: you want to use it, but do you buy into

420
00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:46,520
Speaker 2: the kid. A lot of the reason why Jalen Hurts

421
00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:49,240
Speaker 2: worked is because you could buy into the kid that

422
00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:51,600
Speaker 2: he was going to figure it out based on his work,

423
00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:55,280
Speaker 2: ethic and his leadership skills in those things. With Jalen Murroe,

424
00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:59,200
Speaker 2: can people get close enough to him to say, hey,

425
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:00,720
Speaker 2: I'm going to bet on the kid. I'm on the

426
00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:02,960
Speaker 2: bet that he is going to put everything into it

427
00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:05,720
Speaker 2: and figure it out along the way how he needs

428
00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:08,760
Speaker 2: to play to be able to help this offense move

429
00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:12,080
Speaker 2: the ball consistently and to win games as he's continued

430
00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:13,760
Speaker 2: to add tools to the tool belt.

431
00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:16,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I think he's going in the second round, man,

432
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Speaker 1: I do. We'll see.

433
00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:21,480
Speaker 2: I'm pretty confident that he was going to it. Threw

434
00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,040
Speaker 2: me off that when he got the invitation to whatever.

435
00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:28,399
Speaker 1: Well, you never know, yeah, you never know. No, Yeah,

436
00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:30,880
Speaker 1: but no, I think I think you'll end up going

437
00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:33,160
Speaker 1: early in the second round. So we'll see what happens there.

438
00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:34,879
Speaker 1: Let's take a quick break, come back. I want to

439
00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:38,000
Speaker 1: hit a couple underrated players, and then I've got three

440
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:39,679
Speaker 1: this or that questions for you.

441
00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:41,360
Speaker 3: We'll get to it right after this.

442
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,119
Speaker 1: All right, buck, I was just going through it, and

443
00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:48,640
Speaker 1: to me, it was I had a connection with three

444
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:51,160
Speaker 1: guys who I thought were kind of I just really

445
00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:53,920
Speaker 1: like him as players, and I talked to teams there

446
00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:56,639
Speaker 1: I found some love, some like I should say, maybe

447
00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,200
Speaker 1: not love, but I just think these guys are all

448
00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:02,120
Speaker 1: three good football players. I think all three of them

449
00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:05,720
Speaker 1: belong on Day two and ironically, they all play in

450
00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:09,600
Speaker 1: the secondary for the cal Bears. Noel Williams the corner

451
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:13,200
Speaker 1: who had seven picks at three against Auburn. He played

452
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:15,399
Speaker 1: well at a pick six against cam Ord. He's feisty,

453
00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:18,919
Speaker 1: he's quick, he just has excellent ball skills. He's you know,

454
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:22,199
Speaker 1: he's big. He's over six foot right around two hundred pounds,

455
00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:25,400
Speaker 1: ran four or five flat. Marcus Harris another corner from there,

456
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:27,600
Speaker 1: is a little a little more juice, a little more twitch,

457
00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:32,959
Speaker 1: real fluid, great athlete, recovery speed. And then Craig Woodson

458
00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:35,399
Speaker 1: is one of my one of my favorite safeties. He's leader,

459
00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:38,000
Speaker 1: he's smart, he can play all over the place, deep, half,

460
00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:41,880
Speaker 1: smooth mover ran four four five, He's a firm tackler,

461
00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:44,320
Speaker 1: just overall real smart, good player. I thought all three

462
00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:46,080
Speaker 1: of those cal Bears are good players, and I thought

463
00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:49,199
Speaker 1: maybe a little undervalued. Is there anybody that that you

464
00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:50,639
Speaker 1: look at in this draft as you kind of go

465
00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:53,960
Speaker 1: through the process, and you're like, you know what, I'll

466
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:54,760
Speaker 1: bet on that one.

467
00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:57,680
Speaker 4: No, I like, I like those guys that you mentioned.

468
00:20:57,680 --> 00:20:59,159
Speaker 2: It is funny because I think Williams was at the

469
00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:01,920
Speaker 2: East West frying game and we're talking because I'm trying

470
00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:03,560
Speaker 2: to figure out who his agent is. I think his

471
00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:06,280
Speaker 2: agent is a buddy of mine because they talked to

472
00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:06,800
Speaker 2: me about him.

473
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:07,880
Speaker 4: I remember having to look at him.

474
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:09,520
Speaker 2: And there were a couple other guys that were at

475
00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:11,399
Speaker 2: that game that I feel strong about that we're in

476
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:16,119
Speaker 2: the secondary. Kobe Bryant from Kansas, super competitive. If you

477
00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:17,840
Speaker 2: can see him in one on one drills or whatever,

478
00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:21,880
Speaker 2: man dude goes NonStop, plays hard, just all out and

479
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:25,159
Speaker 2: the frame scares you. But I love the toughness, the

480
00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:27,600
Speaker 2: intensity that it brings to the field. And then this

481
00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:29,119
Speaker 2: is a bit of a homer, but he also was

482
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:33,040
Speaker 2: at the game. Elijah Hussey niver back from North Carolina,

483
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:35,720
Speaker 2: pretty knee. I think you got hurt at the East West.

484
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:39,439
Speaker 2: But DJ in terms of like the innate feel for

485
00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:43,639
Speaker 2: the position, he has those things, and not as a

486
00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:46,160
Speaker 2: Day one or Day two guy, but when we're looking

487
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:48,159
Speaker 2: at that position, we're trying to find someone that can

488
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:50,000
Speaker 2: kind of come out of the lower ranks that could

489
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:53,560
Speaker 2: be a much better pro than anyone envisions. To me,

490
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:57,119
Speaker 2: he has it, and he has the pump returnability that

491
00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:59,800
Speaker 2: gives him a chance. So when you think about Marcus

492
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,159
Speaker 2: Owns that was up in New England when Belichick and

493
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:03,439
Speaker 2: those guys took him out of Houston.

494
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:05,840
Speaker 4: Yep, he kind of reminds me of that.

495
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,600
Speaker 2: I can get him a jersey each week until he's

496
00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:11,760
Speaker 2: ready to play, and that gives him a chance to

497
00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:13,560
Speaker 2: be a key contribute whenever he gets his chance.

498
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:16,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that. I just put a little note

499
00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:17,760
Speaker 1: on there. I'm gonna go back and watch a little

500
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,920
Speaker 1: bit more of him. That's good stuff, all right, three,

501
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,160
Speaker 1: I got three this or that's okay. These are discussions

502
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:26,160
Speaker 1: that are taking place in rooms around the league. Good debates,

503
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:27,400
Speaker 1: good discussions. You're eight to roll.

504
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:28,240
Speaker 4: Yep.

505
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:32,800
Speaker 1: Terence Ferguson versus Harold Fanning tight end position.

506
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:37,320
Speaker 2: Man, I like Fanning, and I don't want to be

507
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:40,800
Speaker 2: in I don't want to be overly influenced by the times,

508
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:42,359
Speaker 2: the comment whatever.

509
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:46,880
Speaker 3: But Ferguson's bigger, faster, you know, he is his favor.

510
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:49,200
Speaker 4: And I can't say this.

511
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:53,159
Speaker 2: But like the way that Fanning consistently gets open is like,

512
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:55,440
Speaker 2: I don't know how this dude gets open time.

513
00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:57,800
Speaker 4: All the time.

514
00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 3: Is such a everybody jerky awkward?

515
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 2: He's uh, he's James Hardon right, James Harden on the

516
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:06,160
Speaker 2: football field.

517
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,719
Speaker 4: Like creating separation. But he can do it all.

518
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 2: And when you go back and you think about like

519
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,199
Speaker 2: I think he was a safety of running back and

520
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:16,000
Speaker 2: all of that, it comes out to me, I'll just

521
00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:16,800
Speaker 2: lean towards him.

522
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,399
Speaker 4: He is so productive. Thirty hundred yards at tight end.

523
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:20,840
Speaker 3: That's stupid production.

524
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:25,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a It's a fascinating one to me. That's

525
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 1: where I came down on it too. But there are

526
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,040
Speaker 1: teams that like Ferguson better because of the you know,

527
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:32,439
Speaker 1: the traits. But I just got Harold. Harold Fannon to

528
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 1: me was like you remember the remember Harold Minor with

529
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:40,159
Speaker 1: baby Jordan. This is this is another Harold fan and

530
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:41,000
Speaker 1: his baby Gates.

531
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 3: So that's who.

532
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 4: Okay.

533
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:45,399
Speaker 2: So so DJ I did not want to say Antonio

534
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:47,920
Speaker 2: Gates because like to say that somebody.

535
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:49,520
Speaker 4: Is a Hall of Famer. But I am.

536
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:54,679
Speaker 2: When I'm when I'm when I'm watching him, I have

537
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 2: to give context. I saw Antonio Gates play in pre

538
00:23:57,720 --> 00:23:59,119
Speaker 2: season his worst.

539
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:02,560
Speaker 3: I was with you and in the press box and I.

540
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 4: Remember like looking at and I had to great him.

541
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:05,879
Speaker 2: I think I gave him a four nine, which was

542
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:10,840
Speaker 2: like whatever, and I'm looking at him later scrip like,

543
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 2: how is he five yards open and he can't run anymore?

544
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,200
Speaker 2: That's what I see when I see Fanning, Like how

545
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 2: was he wide open?

546
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:26,880
Speaker 4: Does it? It's just unbelievable how that happens. Yeah, yeah,

547
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 4: all right.

548
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:32,680
Speaker 3: Jaden Higgins versus Jack Besh mm hmm.

549
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 4: Bess is so productive mm hmm. I mean just really productive,

550
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:38,399
Speaker 4: really smooth.

551
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:40,520
Speaker 1: Jade Higgins has got a lot of pop and a

552
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,879
Speaker 1: lot a lot of buzz, and he's gonna go early.

553
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,359
Speaker 1: Second girl, I think he's gonna go ahead. He's gonna

554
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 1: go ahead of Besh. But I'm just saying, like, you

555
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 1: get a chance to see at the Senior Bowl and

556
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,200
Speaker 1: I'm sitting there going like, I don't know, man, best

557
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:55,920
Speaker 1: best kind of dominated down there at that Senior Bowl

558
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 1: and the game winner.

559
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,320
Speaker 2: Game winner. Yeah, that's there's something. These are just something

560
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 2: to that, Like it's so funny. I just want people

561
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,359
Speaker 2: to understand because being agreed, we had not talked about

562
00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,960
Speaker 2: any of this. No, it's no, we're falling on the

563
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 2: same side of the argument.

564
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's what I mean. I just think it's been

565
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,359
Speaker 1: kind of universal. You know, Jayan Higgins is a good player.

566
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 1: I like him, but I just I just go back

567
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:17,399
Speaker 1: down to the Senior Bowl. I can't get that out

568
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 1: of my head. All right, last one and this is

569
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:23,399
Speaker 1: one that here we are. What is as we're recording this,

570
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:25,080
Speaker 1: we're thirteen days away?

571
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:27,359
Speaker 3: Is that right? Thirteen days away from the draft?

572
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 1: I think I don't even have my final answer on

573
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:32,119
Speaker 1: this one, Buck, So you can't say we're on the

574
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:33,640
Speaker 1: same page, because I'm not on a page.

575
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:34,880
Speaker 3: JT.

576
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 4: T from Ohio.

577
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 3: Ohio State, Nick Gorton from A and m.

578
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 4: Okay, I gonna say true to what I believe early.

579
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 4: I'm a S. Gordon fan.

580
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,960
Speaker 2: I was a Scordon fan, just watching him, seeing how

581
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 2: hard he played, seeing what he brings to the table.

582
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 2: To me, I'm just betting on him all day. I

583
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 2: think he figures out a way to have success. Combine

584
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 2: was a bit of a disappointment in terms of like

585
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 2: I thought he was gonna be much better. But man

586
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:03,479
Speaker 2: on the tape, I I just fell in love with

587
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:05,920
Speaker 2: what I saw from him early and often just making

588
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:07,439
Speaker 2: plays and kind of always been around it.

589
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:09,120
Speaker 3: I talked about this the other day.

590
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 1: He I mean he played it close to too eighty

591
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:13,360
Speaker 1: this year, and then at the Pro day.

592
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 3: He's two fifty seven.

593
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 1: He's like a different human being, and come to find out,

594
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 1: they wanted to bulk him up at A and M.

595
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 1: So that's why he was playing in that particular body type.

596
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 1: And I didn't see like the pop or the juice

597
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 1: from him, and that was my concern with him. And

598
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:28,400
Speaker 1: then everybody I talked to him said, you go back

599
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 1: and watch him at Purdue and he's a lighter guy

600
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:32,880
Speaker 1: and that's where he's at his best. And I guess

601
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 1: his pro day was excellent, like the way he moved

602
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 1: around and stuff coaches raved about him. And then everybody

603
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 1: that's met with him, and really both these kids, I

604
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:41,879
Speaker 1: should say this about both of them. The teams that

605
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:43,719
Speaker 1: have met with him and talked with these kids, they

606
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:47,880
Speaker 1: are studs, like great kids. These D line coaches want

607
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 1: to coach these two kids, and I think they are

608
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 1: going to come off the board very in a very

609
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,639
Speaker 1: similar proximity when it's all said and done.

610
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can't get enough good players. That's good intel

611
00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:01,360
Speaker 2: though about scoring. He was that Purdue, and that's really

612
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 2: important why scouts have to dig deeper in just that

613
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,360
Speaker 2: final campaign. It is, Yeah, the final campaign matters, but really,

614
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 2: it's the entire body of work and understanding the whise

615
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,119
Speaker 2: behind the successes of failures that you see doing that

616
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:12,880
Speaker 2: final campaign.

617
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, by the way, somebody, I got to get this. Uh,

618
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 1: I gotta check this. But somebody did tell me that

619
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 1: he does not like going by JTT. So I guess

620
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 1: that's it's JT to him.

621
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 4: Alow.

622
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 1: So, I if I was offensive, and I apologize, I

623
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 1: will not do that when we get to the draft.

624
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:31,200
Speaker 1: But maybe maybe it was someone just busting my chops.

625
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 1: But I did hear from somebody that he does not

626
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:34,920
Speaker 1: like being called that I would love to be called JTT.

627
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:36,440
Speaker 1: It's a great it's a great name.

628
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 4: I mean, it's a great name. But hopefully you're not

629
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:39,639
Speaker 4: in here on path in the.

630
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 2: Draft when he comes through and you say, hey, JTT.

631
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:45,879
Speaker 3: That nothing was worth Yeah, we don't know.

632
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 1: I can't share some of those stories about guys coming

633
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 1: through on path and telling them I know certain people

634
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:51,960
Speaker 1: in their life that I find out they no longer

635
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 1: have relationships with. That was not not my finest hour there, buck,

636
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: you know what I'm talking about? All right, all right,

637
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 1: that's gonna do it for us today. Man, we are

638
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,119
Speaker 1: almost to the draft. We appreciate you guys hanging with us.

639
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:06,679
Speaker 1: We'll see you next time, right here on booth the

640
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 1: sticks

641
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 2: H