WEBVTT - Listener Questions #29 0:00:07.760 --> 0:00:12.400 Beetles and fungi are decimating trees in Seattle. Do any 0:00:12.480 --> 0:00:15.200 other invertebrates ride fungi into battle? 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:19.720 How can the Ambi polar field ignore Earth's magnetic might? 0:00:20.239 --> 0:00:22.880 And why is it stronger on Venus? Could it grow 0:00:22.960 --> 0:00:24.000 here one night? 0:00:24.880 --> 0:00:27.800 Is it true that stress can turn your hair gray? 0:00:28.560 --> 0:00:31.080 My world is kind of a dumpster fire right now, 0:00:31.120 --> 0:00:32.479 so I'd prefer if it didn't. 0:00:32.520 --> 0:00:36.839 Okay, whatever questions keep you up at night, Daniel and 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:39.080 Kelly's answers will make it all right. 0:00:39.800 --> 0:00:44.640 Welcome to another Daniel and Kelly's Extraordinary Universe, Another Listener 0:00:44.760 --> 0:00:45.760 Questions episode. 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:47.560 We've done twenty nine of these. 0:00:48.400 --> 0:00:50.400 You know, we haven't actually done twenty nine of these. 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:51.800 This is the twenty ninth. 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:54.560 We're doing the twenty ninth of these. 0:01:09.840 --> 0:01:12.559 All right, So my question for you today, County is 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:14.520 when did you start to go gray? 0:01:14.800 --> 0:01:15.119 Oh? 0:01:15.160 --> 0:01:18.880 Man, gosh, A long time ago. 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:23.240 I started getting a few random grays towards like the 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:25.399 end of undergrad, I think, and then in grad school 0:01:25.400 --> 0:01:28.600 it started speeding up. My mom started going gray at eighteen, wow, 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:31.120 And so I kind of anticipated it would happen, but 0:01:31.200 --> 0:01:33.320 I didn't realize that I was really starting to go 0:01:33.360 --> 0:01:35.200 gray until a friend of mine told me that I 0:01:35.280 --> 0:01:39.320 was quote rocking the salt and pepper look, and I 0:01:39.360 --> 0:01:41.800 gave him the stink eye because I thought of myself 0:01:41.840 --> 0:01:46.720 as someone who had a few stray grays and I hadn't. 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:48.160 Realized I had transitioned to salt and pepper. 0:01:48.200 --> 0:01:50.520 But it was very nice, and so I anyway, I 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:53.720 have transitioned to salt and pepper, apparently. And what about you, 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:55.680 I can't You've got You've got some grays, right, It's 0:01:55.680 --> 0:01:57.960 hard to tell on the riverside camera. 0:01:58.960 --> 0:02:02.680 I think I might have one or two gray beard hairs. 0:02:03.840 --> 0:02:05.800 Daniel. That's not fair, I know. 0:02:06.280 --> 0:02:09.120 But I think I'm still pretty much all original color 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:09.560 up top. 0:02:09.680 --> 0:02:12.760 So wow, congratulations Daniel. 0:02:13.320 --> 0:02:17.240 Yeah, well, there's some mythology in my family. My grandparents 0:02:17.440 --> 0:02:21.079 on my dad's side both had jet black hair into 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:21.880 their eighties. 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:22.600 Wow. 0:02:22.680 --> 0:02:25.359 But there's a discussion in the family about whether or 0:02:25.360 --> 0:02:27.959 not they died it. Oh, And some people are like, oh, 0:02:28.080 --> 0:02:30.320 of course they died it. How naive are you to 0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:33.560 believe that an eighty year old had black hair? And 0:02:33.720 --> 0:02:36.400 I don't know, maybe they did, who knows. I'm not 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:37.760 going to exhume their body and do. 0:02:37.760 --> 0:02:42.919 Some tests scandalous, but so far. 0:02:42.919 --> 0:02:45.679 In my personal experiment, no, gray's up top. 0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:48.400 Yeah cool. I don't know. I don't really. 0:02:48.480 --> 0:02:49.960 It doesn't keep me up at night that I have 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:51.959 gray hairs, like you know. I yes, I was a 0:02:51.960 --> 0:02:54.480 little surprised, but mostly it's just because I'm not very 0:02:54.480 --> 0:02:56.600 self aware. But at the end of the day, like 0:02:56.680 --> 0:02:58.720 I don't care enough to diet or anything like that, 0:02:58.840 --> 0:02:59.880 I'm not losing sleep. 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:02.840 And what comes after salt and pepper, before you're fully 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:04.639 silver haired? Is there another stage there? 0:03:05.520 --> 0:03:09.720 I don't think so. 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:11.960 So once you're past salt and pepper, you're just all in. 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:21.400 I think then you're at silverfox ooh. 0:03:17.880 --> 0:03:22.520 And then you go white and then you're Gandolf. Yeah. 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:24.680 I look forward to becoming Gandolf. I'll get there. The 0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:25.280 white Wizard. 0:03:25.720 --> 0:03:27.720 Well, that's the thing is people are like, oh, you 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:30.520 haven't turned gray yet, But I think gray adds gravitas. 0:03:31.120 --> 0:03:33.200 It's nice for people to think you're younger than you are, 0:03:33.680 --> 0:03:36.800 but then it also makes them take you less seriously sometimes. Yeah, 0:03:36.800 --> 0:03:38.920 but something that I do want to take very seriously 0:03:39.000 --> 0:03:42.280 are the questions in the minds of our listeners. Because 0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:45.000 our goal is to give you a tour of everything 0:03:45.040 --> 0:03:48.080 that's extraordinary in the universe, but not just the things 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:52.000 that we find extraordinary, the mysteries that tackle your minds. 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:54.520 So if you have questions about how the universe works, 0:03:54.560 --> 0:03:58.760 please write to us two questions at danieland Kelly dot org. 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:02.440 Today's questions were taken directly from those. 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:05.720 Messages, and you'll see that Daniel wasn't just gloating at 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:08.160 the beginning of today's episode, although that might have been 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:11.040 part of it. We did get a question about graying 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:12.280 hair towards the end. 0:04:12.320 --> 0:04:12.680 Bumble. 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:15.280 No, that was just bragging, just straight bragging. There was 0:04:15.320 --> 0:04:16.360 nothing humble in there. 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:19.960 So all right, so let's move on to question one 0:04:20.160 --> 0:04:22.520 from Eric, and let's go ahead and hear that question. 0:04:22.600 --> 0:04:26.839 Now, hey, they're extraordinaries. 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:29.599 Eric and I had some technical difficulties, so I'm going 0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:32.400 to go ahead and read his question and rest assured 0:04:32.560 --> 0:04:35.880 the answer has already been shared with Eric. The question 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:39.760 is regarding the spruce bark beetle in Alaska and their 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:43.359 relationship with fungus. I understand that they're born with the 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:46.800 fungus which is parasitic to spruce trees, which knocks back 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:49.520 the immune response of the trees to resist the beetle. 0:04:50.080 --> 0:04:53.640 The Beatles are a delivery mechanism for the fungus. Is 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:55.800 this relationship unique to beetles? 0:04:59.040 --> 0:05:02.160 So he spells beatle b e a t l E. 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:05.080 Is he talking about the insect or the rock band. 0:05:05.680 --> 0:05:08.000 I am going to go ahead and assume that that 0:05:08.160 --> 0:05:10.760 was an auto correct because when I was going ahead 0:05:10.800 --> 0:05:14.640 and taking notes a couple times, my phone and Google 0:05:14.680 --> 0:05:17.640 Docs auto corrected to the band spelling. I guess the 0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:20.719 band is much more popular than the invertebrates. 0:05:22.760 --> 0:05:25.400 Well, but there are more kinds of beatles the invertebrates 0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:26.640 than beatles the singers. 0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:29.760 Right, So yep, yep, many many, Yes, there's I think 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:33.080 you know, there's probably something like six thousand bark beetles species, 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:36.360 and there's yeah, far fewer Beatle members. 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:39.880 And you're not prepared to answer the question if the 0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:41.960 context were rock musicians. 0:05:42.240 --> 0:05:43.320 Yeah, no, that's right. 0:05:43.600 --> 0:05:46.320 Although I did just listen to the Rest is History 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:48.720 did a few series on the Beatles, but no, I'm 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:51.080 probably not prepared for a whole Beatles episode. 0:05:51.160 --> 0:05:53.440 All right, So tell us about the bark beetles and 0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:55.159 the relationship with spruce trees. 0:05:55.480 --> 0:05:58.320 Okay, so there's a lot of different species of bark beetles, 0:05:58.320 --> 0:06:01.440 and some of them kill tree and recently there have 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:05.000 been some mass tree dieoffs as a result of bark beetles. 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:06.200 They're so sad. 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:08.640 Yeah, But so you know, a lot of the beetles 0:06:08.640 --> 0:06:10.960 that are causing these die offs are native, which I 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:13.800 think makes the story a little complicated. So, for example, 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:18.440 in Alaska, you have this spruce beetle. It's native and 0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:22.720 usually it goes after unhealthy trees, and when its population 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:25.640 numbers are pretty low, it doesn't cause a lot of trouble, 0:06:25.680 --> 0:06:27.480 Like it takes trees that were already kind of on 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:30.479 the way out, maybe hastens their demise a bit, but 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:31.400 that's not a big deal. 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:34.080 Do you mean it goes after the ones that are unhealthy, 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:36.920 like it knows or that it just has success against those? 0:06:37.440 --> 0:06:38.320 Oh good question. 0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:41.599 I don't know if it's specifically going after the unhealthy 0:06:41.600 --> 0:06:44.159 ones or if it just is better at the unhealthy ones. 0:06:44.160 --> 0:06:47.320 Because trees do have something like an immune system defense, 0:06:48.320 --> 0:06:50.600 and as we're going to discuss in a moment here, 0:06:50.839 --> 0:06:52.919 the beetles have a fungus that helps them with that 0:06:52.960 --> 0:06:55.520 immune system defense. Amazing, Yeah, but it could be so 0:06:55.600 --> 0:06:58.560 you know, the beatles. I don't think they're like randomly 0:06:58.720 --> 0:07:01.200 blithely going about their life if not making any decisions. 0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:03.600 I think they probably can to some extent tell if 0:07:03.640 --> 0:07:06.520 they are near a tree that is going to be 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:10.400 easier or less easy to invade, And so probably they're 0:07:10.400 --> 0:07:12.280 they're searching for the unhealthy ones that they'll have an 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:15.360 easier chance with. But at high population numbers, though, some 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:17.400 of those unhealthy ones might get crowded and they get 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:20.880 pushed out to healthy ones. Let's say that's what's happening, right, 0:07:20.960 --> 0:07:23.520 And so when they get to really high population densities 0:07:23.560 --> 0:07:25.640 and there's loads of these beetles all over the place, 0:07:26.200 --> 0:07:28.360 they start killing the healthy trees too. 0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:30.240 And so, for example, there's been. 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:33.840 An outbreak of these beetles in Alaska and something like 0:07:33.960 --> 0:07:37.400 one point six million acres have been impacted, and that 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:40.280 means a bunch of yeah, many, many, many of these 0:07:40.400 --> 0:07:44.560 native trees, native spruce trees have been killed in Alaska. 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:48.800 And there's another outbreak of the Eurasian spruce bark beetle 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:52.120 that's happening right now in Europe and it's decimating the 0:07:52.160 --> 0:07:55.400 conifer forests. And so you know, as I mentioned, a 0:07:55.400 --> 0:07:58.960 lot of these beetles are native, and so the question is, 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:01.080 you know, like I think a lot of us are 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:03.600 bummed out because we like forests. 0:08:03.200 --> 0:08:06.000 And we like trees and living trees. 0:08:06.160 --> 0:08:09.040 Living trees, right, and the idea that beetles are killing 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:12.320 a bunch of trees stinks. But I guess the question 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:15.240 is is this a natural process or not? So, you know, 0:08:15.240 --> 0:08:18.280 when a bunch of trees die, they fall, and that 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:23.480 clears forest floor to suddenly get sunlight that wasn't getting 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:25.320 sunlight before because the trees were blocking it. 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:26.080 And now you can. 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:28.800 Get flowers and pollinators, and this is sort of how 0:08:28.800 --> 0:08:32.800 ecosystems turn over. Ecosystems are not usually stagnant, and so 0:08:33.360 --> 0:08:36.240 I guess the interesting question to me is is this 0:08:36.320 --> 0:08:38.800 like a two hundred year cycle and we just kind 0:08:38.840 --> 0:08:41.000 of weren't taking notes before and we're just seeing something 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:45.040 that naturally would have happened. Or would the two hundred 0:08:45.080 --> 0:08:49.079 year cycle have included maybe like one hectare of trees 0:08:49.520 --> 0:08:53.560 dying but because of global climate change or because we've 0:08:53.600 --> 0:08:56.760 managed forests in a way that you know has made 0:08:56.760 --> 0:08:59.560 more trees unhealthy, is it just way more intense than 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:02.920 it's ever in the past, in which case, you know, 0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:04.920 maybe we care now because we have made this problem 0:09:05.000 --> 0:09:05.960 much worse than it would have been. 0:09:06.040 --> 0:09:08.160 Does that make sense, Yeah, But I had the impression 0:09:08.200 --> 0:09:11.520 that some forests were truly ancient. You know that forests 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:14.120 can be fairly stable. If the climate is stable, et cetera, 0:09:14.559 --> 0:09:17.800 then trees can grow for hundreds or thousands of years. 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:20.120 So it's not like there's a two hundred year cycle 0:09:20.160 --> 0:09:22.200 where all the trees in the forest die and then 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:25.000 get replaced. And that's just what we're seeing, right. It 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:28.120 feels like we're seeing a shift in the capacity for 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:30.840 forests to exist. Right out here in the West, we 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:33.840 see lots and lots of dead trees on hillsides, and 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:36.920 it feels like, maybe you we're seeing the ends of forests. 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:39.080 Well, so, first of all, when I said two hundred, 0:09:39.080 --> 0:09:41.319 I probably should have said x because I was just 0:09:41.360 --> 0:09:46.400 picking a number. But so I was listening to Indefensive Plants, 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:48.920 which is a great plant podcast, and they had a 0:09:48.920 --> 0:09:51.599 guy on there who studies bark beetles, and he was 0:09:51.640 --> 0:09:54.040 saying that, like, you know, we really don't know if 0:09:54.080 --> 0:09:56.719 this is a natural cycle or if it's something that's 0:09:56.760 --> 0:09:59.680 getting much worse and we do think that probably it 0:09:59.760 --> 0:10:01.439 is a problem that has gotten much worse. But for 0:10:01.480 --> 0:10:03.319 a lot of the stuff, we don't have great data. Yeah, 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:05.840 because if X is a thousand and it's like a 0:10:05.880 --> 0:10:08.599 thousand year cycle, we probably wouldn't have great data on that. 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:10.839 Maybe every one thousand years, you do expect to see 0:10:10.880 --> 0:10:13.320 all the trees on the hillside's dead and then the 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:16.640 cycle starts again or something. But it wouldn't surprise me 0:10:16.760 --> 0:10:19.040 to hear that we have made this problem worse through 0:10:19.080 --> 0:10:21.880 global climate change and exacerbating drought and stuff like that. 0:10:21.920 --> 0:10:23.679 But let's get back to the beetles in the fungus. 0:10:23.880 --> 0:10:25.920 Yeah, so what are the beatles doing to the trees 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:27.120 and how does the fungus help? 0:10:27.320 --> 0:10:30.559 Okay, so the beatles arrive at a tree and they 0:10:30.640 --> 0:10:32.240 like you know, for example, they might go under the 0:10:32.280 --> 0:10:35.000 bark and the adults might move around under the bark. 0:10:35.080 --> 0:10:37.080 And when they do that, they introduce a fungus. And 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:38.920 this fungus the only way it can get from like 0:10:38.960 --> 0:10:41.120 tree to tree is it travels with the beetles, and 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:42.920 so that's how the beetles benefit the fungus. 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:44.640 So then the fungus. 0:10:44.480 --> 0:10:47.240 Infects the tree and it does a couple different things 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:48.840 for the beetles. One of the things that it does 0:10:48.960 --> 0:10:51.199 is that the tree has a bunch of chemical defenses 0:10:51.240 --> 0:10:52.880 that it would use to make the beetles sick and 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:55.840 kill them. And the fungus takes those chemicals that the 0:10:55.840 --> 0:10:59.640 tree was using to defend itself and it neutralizes those chemicals, 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:02.480 so the tree is no longer toxic. 0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:05.040 To the beetles. Amazing, totally agree. Yeah, it's crazy. 0:11:05.360 --> 0:11:08.320 And now instead the beetle is starting to convert stuff 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:10.920 in the tree to stuff that's nutritious for the beetles. 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:12.760 So now it's easier for the beetles to get nutrition 0:11:12.880 --> 0:11:15.760 from the tree. The beetles aren't getting attacked by the tree. 0:11:16.040 --> 0:11:18.560 In some cases, the beetles are actually converting some of 0:11:18.559 --> 0:11:21.439 the things that the tree makes into pheromones to attract 0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:24.400 more beetles to the tree. Wow, I know, it's crazy. 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:27.920 And so then the beetles lay their eggs in the tree. 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:31.000 And you know, if you've worked with like trees before, 0:11:31.040 --> 0:11:33.480 maybe sometimes you've pulled a piece of bark off and 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:36.040 underneath you've seen all of these sort of like almost 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:38.840 random lines that chriss cross over each other. Those are 0:11:38.880 --> 0:11:42.000 the paths of like little baby beetles that have hatched 0:11:42.040 --> 0:11:44.320 and sort of moved around, and it's like the path 0:11:44.360 --> 0:11:46.079 of the food that they ate and the movements that 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:46.439 they made. 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:49.200 Yeah, like these little tunnels that they've dug through underneath 0:11:49.200 --> 0:11:50.880 the bark. Yeah, it's very cool to see. 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:53.440 Yeah, they're called galleries, and I do feel like they're 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:56.000 little works of art, Like I love that name for them. 0:11:56.400 --> 0:11:58.760 And so anyway, this reproduction keeps happening, and with this 0:11:58.800 --> 0:12:01.880 collaboration between the beetle and the fungus, the beetles are 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:05.400 able to overwhelm the tree's defenses and they can kill 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:06.199 the tree that way. 0:12:06.440 --> 0:12:08.920 And is this something that happens to trees worldwide? This 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:11.880 must be a common pattern between beetles and trees. I 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:14.599 remember seeing these kinds of patterns on the back of 0:12:14.720 --> 0:12:17.680 bark of like Ponderosa pines in New Mexico, for example. 0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:20.760 Yeah, so lots of trees have bark beetles, like at 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:23.439 least one bark beetles species. Sometimes you can find more 0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:27.280 than one beetle species living in different parts of trees. 0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:31.040 Not all of them are super bad for the tree. 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:33.080 And again, a lot of times it depends on how 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:35.640 many beetles there are, how bad the condition of the 0:12:35.640 --> 0:12:38.080 tree is. But yeah, you can find these almost all 0:12:38.120 --> 0:12:40.480 over the world. It seems to particularly be a problem 0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:42.800 for like spruces and pines and stuff. 0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:45.280 Is it ever good for the tree? Are they doing 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:46.319 anything that's helpful. 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:49.640 I didn't come across examples of that in my reading. 0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:52.760 Oh yeah, it doesn't mean it's not out there. I 0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:55.440 didn't read every paper on bark beetles, as you can imagine, 0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:57.440 with over six thousand species, there's a lot of papers 0:12:57.440 --> 0:12:57.880 out there. 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:00.240 Well, I don't know why, but I feel my self 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:02.800 rooting for the trees. I mean, I'm not the lorax 0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:05.680 or anything, and beetles have just as much a right 0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:08.720 to live and to eat as trees do. But it 0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:11.880 feels like, you know, the trees have this grandeur and 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:14.959 they're supposed to be there, and the beetles are invading whatever. 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:18.160 So give me a more ecological viewpoint on this. Why 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:21.000 should I not be attached to the trees or should I? 0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:23.439 Yeah, I think you could argue either way. Like, I mean, 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:26.079 I'm attached to the trees, and when the trees die, 0:13:26.320 --> 0:13:28.600 then the like you know, the woodpeckers that we're living 0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:30.679 in there, don't have a home anymore, and like all 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:33.000 of the other organisms that depended on those trees are 0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:35.920 in trouble. Yeah, you know, I think it makes sense 0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:38.280 that we get sort of emotionally attached to those forests 0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:40.960 and all the organisms that live in there. But you know, 0:13:41.040 --> 0:13:44.240 the only constant and life is change, and ecosystems do 0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:48.400 pretty regularly turn from one thing to another, and so 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:52.679 you know, expecting a system to stay exactly the same 0:13:53.160 --> 0:13:55.720 can cause problems. So, like one problem that humans have 0:13:55.800 --> 0:13:59.120 caused is we've tried to suppress fires because we thought, well, 0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:01.640 fires are bad, but now we've let fuels build up 0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:03.880 over time, and now there's tons of fuel and so 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:06.240 when you do get a fire, it burns extra super 0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:09.520 hot and it kills everything, whereas before there were some 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:11.960 species that would have survived a fire that didn't burn 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:14.000 quite as hot. And so, you know, we kind of 0:14:14.000 --> 0:14:15.880 mess things up when we tinker with it. So the 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:18.680 question is should we tinker with this spark beetle situation? 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:21.800 And can we tinker with this bark beetle situation? Like 0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:25.240 what could you even do? They're living under the bark, 0:14:25.400 --> 0:14:26.920 and like, you know, what can you do that would 0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:30.440 target the beetles or their fungus without messing with the 0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:31.480 rest of the ecosystem. 0:14:31.560 --> 0:14:32.920 Like, it's a really tough problem. 0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:34.520 And I don't want to make it sound like I'm 0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:36.800 saying we should throw up our arms and not do 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:39.680 anything ever, but just that, you know, these are complicated 0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:41.960 problems that you need to think about from multiple angles. 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:45.280 Yeah, And I definitely have emotional connections to some parts 0:14:45.280 --> 0:14:47.880 of the ecosystem, you know, like anything that threatens my 0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:50.240 children for example. Oh yeah, you know, I'm not just 0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:51.520 going to be like that it's in the way of 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:54.440 coyotes to tear out the throats of my children. Like, 0:14:54.880 --> 0:14:57.920 you know, I'm definitely stepping in there and doing something wild. 0:14:58.040 --> 0:15:02.520 Note that that one. We got an email from PETA 0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:05.880 encouraging us to think about things from the animal standpoint. 0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:08.720 A while back, and when I moved out to the 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:10.880 middle of nowhere, I did do a lot of research 0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:12.520 on whether or not it was safe to let my 0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:15.440 like three year olds outside with coyotes. I was outside 0:15:15.480 --> 0:15:18.200 with my three year olds, and it is very rare 0:15:18.320 --> 0:15:20.280 for a coyote to go after a three year old. 0:15:20.320 --> 0:15:22.640 But you are encouraged to stay with your three year 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:26.120 olds outside if there's coyotes around. But once they get bigger, 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:28.480 the coyotes are very unlikely to go after them. So 0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:32.000 your children are safe from coyotes at this age, I 0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:32.720 would suspect. 0:15:32.920 --> 0:15:36.480 I hope that's true. Just two days ago, my daughter 0:15:36.520 --> 0:15:38.880 called me because she was out walking our dog and 0:15:38.920 --> 0:15:41.240 there was a coyote that blocked her on a path 0:15:41.400 --> 0:15:42.920 and she was like, I don't know what to do. 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:46.160 So I biked over there and made my presence known. 0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:49.240 Oh wait, and so you had to scare the coyote away? Yeah, 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:49.840 oh wow. 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:53.720 Yeah. They are very brazen in our neighborhood now. They 0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:56.600 roam in packs, they're everywhere, and hey, you know, we 0:15:56.640 --> 0:15:59.720 moved into their neighborhood. So on the other hand, I 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:02.080 don't really want them eating my kids or my dog. 0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:02.680 Yeah. 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:04.920 But back to the question at hand, we're talking about 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:08.600 fungi and beetles. One question I had is these beetles 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:12.560 are using the fungus to help colonize the tree. What's 0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:14.720 in it for the fungus and what's happening when the 0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:17.240 beetles are not in a tree, or are the beetles 0:16:17.280 --> 0:16:18.440 never not in a tree? 0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:20.920 The beetles are pretty much always in a tree or 0:16:21.040 --> 0:16:24.320 moving from one tree to another, and the fungus get transport. 0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:26.080 So the best way for the fungus to get from 0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:29.040 one tree to another is by being moved by the fungus. 0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:31.120 That's the main thing we think that they get from it. 0:16:31.480 --> 0:16:33.800 Okay, and are beetles the only ones who do this 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:34.920 kind of fungus farming? 0:16:35.520 --> 0:16:35.760 No? 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:36.480 Really? 0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:38.920 Yeah, So Eric wanted to know, you know what other 0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:43.600 invertebrates collaborate with fungi, And it turns out that there's 0:16:43.720 --> 0:16:46.880 quite a few invertebrates that collaborate with fungus, and so 0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:51.800 fungus farming is a pretty common thing in the invertebrate world. Daniel, 0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:55.040 I have a question for you termites. You look at termites, 0:16:55.320 --> 0:16:57.720 what do you think termites are closely related to If. 0:16:57.640 --> 0:17:00.480 You had to guess, hmmm, termite. 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:01.560 Or do you already know the answer to this? 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:04.600 I do not know the answer. Okay, they're an insect 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:07.560 because of the legs they got all those little segments, 0:17:07.960 --> 0:17:10.119 they seem kind of antie to me, thank you. 0:17:10.640 --> 0:17:12.480 Yes, they do look anti to me. 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:15.439 And so I said something to one of my friends 0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:17.240 about them being, you know, kind of ant like, and 0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:21.800 they were like, Kelly, they're more closely related to cockroaches what. 0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:24.520 And I looked at them for a second and I 0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:26.280 kind of gave them a little bit of the stink 0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:29.120 guy because I was like, you are either messing with 0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:33.320 me or I should be very embarrassed because I. 0:17:33.280 --> 0:17:35.760 Am way off here. And it turned out I was 0:17:35.800 --> 0:17:36.200 way off. 0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:38.080 Well, I don't have to be embarrassed because I'm not 0:17:38.080 --> 0:17:40.520 supposed to know so well. 0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:42.200 Yeah, and I wasn't trying to embarrass you like you 0:17:42.240 --> 0:17:44.119 were trying to embarrass me about my gray hair earlier. 0:17:44.160 --> 0:17:48.840 But ooh, life, I'm impressed by the gravitas your gray 0:17:48.880 --> 0:17:49.639 hair lends to you. 0:17:49.880 --> 0:17:53.080 Oh thank you. Yes, I looked very mature and commanding 0:17:53.200 --> 0:17:59.320 of wisdom and whatnot. Exactly all right. So, fungus farming 0:17:59.840 --> 0:18:04.600 is seen in some termites, ants, wood wasps, and ambrosia beetles. 0:18:04.640 --> 0:18:07.640 So basically the deal here is that they collect certain 0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:11.280 kinds of fungus. They put fungus in a certain area. Sometimes, 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:14.320 for example, there are like leafcutter ants who will feed 0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:16.920 the fungus certain kinds of leaves, and then the fungus 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:20.840 will break it down into things that are more digestible 0:18:21.000 --> 0:18:23.600 for you know, for example, the leaf cutter ants. So 0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:26.359 let's talk about the Ambrosia beetles for a second. So 0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:30.280 the Ambrosia beetles will farm fungus and they will bring 0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:35.240 them into for example, like dead trees, and then they'll 0:18:35.280 --> 0:18:38.200 create those galleries that we were talking about, and they'll 0:18:38.200 --> 0:18:40.280 sort of lay their eggs, they'll have their babies, and 0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:42.960