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Speaker 1: Who doy Who Glamour Girls. You're listening to Stradio Lab rewind.

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Speaker 2: Once a month, we will be re releasing an old

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Speaker 2: classic Stradio Lab episode to refamiliarize new listeners with the

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Speaker 2: lore that built the podcast. The government cannot shut down.

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Speaker 1: Because we recorded some of these long long ago. The

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Speaker 1: audio quality may be mixed, but trust the ideas are

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Speaker 1: eternal and dangerous.

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Speaker 2: So take out your notebook and open to page one,

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Speaker 2: because it's time to start taking notes about the things

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Speaker 2: we've said.

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Speaker 1: Okay, enjoy the past. Bye, podcast starts. Now, what's up

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Speaker 1: everyone around the globe. You're listening to Stradio Lab from

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Speaker 1: a windowless room in Times Square. That's right. Welcome to TRL.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to TRL. I can hear and Sink bumping their

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Speaker 1: new hit downstairs.

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Speaker 2: So this is our final day of a full week

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Speaker 2: of Stradio Lab content.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, a non stop I feel wistful.

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Speaker 3: I know.

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Speaker 2: We've recorded four episodes. We've done a live show. It

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Speaker 2: was our first ever Lesbian Lab live show. All queer

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Speaker 2: women lineup and instead of straight topics, they brought lesbian topics. Yes,

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Speaker 2: and we learned about I think we can say what

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Speaker 2: the three topics were to say them, okay self cancelation.

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Speaker 2: So this is when you are a lesbian and you

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Speaker 2: start a small business sort of with the intention of

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Speaker 2: being canceled for having bad labor practices.

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Speaker 1: You get like one complaint and then decide to go on,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry too, that's right.

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Speaker 2: And it's also like starting a business is actually more

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Speaker 2: of a means to an end, the end being a

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Speaker 2: getting a conversation going yeah, so you want like a

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Speaker 2: Reddit thread, you want people saying, like thread the truth

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Speaker 2: about you know, black cat coffee.

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Speaker 1: So that was one.

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Speaker 2: Hats was a second topic. So we learned about flat

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Speaker 2: rim hats and about hey mama, lesbians huh, and about

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Speaker 2: how different hats the further back in your head of

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Speaker 2: beanie goes, the less queer you are. That is something

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Speaker 2: that was I think positive. Yeah, that was positive and

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Speaker 2: proven and proven. And then the final topic that this

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Speaker 2: was the most interesting to me. You want to say

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Speaker 2: what it.

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Speaker 1: Was, It was porn. This was Natalie Roder Lightman, and

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Speaker 1: it was porn as a lesbian export, as pizza is

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Speaker 1: to Italians. So she was yes, and so you know,

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Speaker 1: it's not necessarily always made by Italians, just like lesbian

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Speaker 1: war wasn't always made by lesbians, and yet it's how

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Speaker 1: most people interact with lesbian culture.

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Speaker 2: This was fascinating to me because I am so you know,

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Speaker 2: liberal arts pilled that. I thought the topic was like feminist.

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Speaker 1: You're you're I have to say, you're ivy League education

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Speaker 1: was showing pajeority.

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Speaker 2: I was.

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Speaker 1: It was very I have to say, it was like rich.

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Speaker 1: It was sort of it was Kamala codd. Okay, thank

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Speaker 1: you for the class and noalysis. First of all, I.

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Speaker 2: Appreciate it, and I'm self canceling in a legbian way

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Speaker 2: for my privilege.

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Speaker 4: Because I heard porn as our greatest sector. I said,

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Speaker 4: I know exactly what you're talking. No, and in retrospect,

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Speaker 4: I completely understand what she was saying. She was saying

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Speaker 4: the sort of male gays lesbian poor and literally the

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Speaker 4: poster of two women kissing them guys have in their dorms.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that is like I mean, that's like an.

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Speaker 2: Art cultural export of lesbianism that people from all communities

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Speaker 2: can understand.

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Speaker 1: What I heard was.

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Speaker 2: Like, you know, sort of queer non binary porn where

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Speaker 2: then all the performers also give a talk at Oberlin

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Speaker 2: and the and then the talk is like and then

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Speaker 2: there's like people asking questions at the talk and they're

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Speaker 2: like holding space.

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Speaker 1: It was really funny. You were like, oh, porn stars,

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Speaker 1: you know, like people that do talks at college university,

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Speaker 1: and it's like, I really don't think that's what it is. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I love that. It's a beautiful it's a beautiful

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Speaker 1: perspective that you bring.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know what that also is a lesbian

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Speaker 2: cultural expert. It's just as like a less successful one

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Speaker 2: because it hasn't really reached the heights of the sort

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Speaker 2: of more male gayzyyah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was in the pizza metaphor you were forgetting

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Speaker 1: sort of about dominoes.

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Speaker 2: I was thinking more like Roberta's kind of a hot

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Speaker 2: honey and sage, whereas Natalie was saying like ep barone.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to say.

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Speaker 2: And I do want to actually shout out. So our

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Speaker 2: friend Andrew long Chuu was supposed to do the show

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Speaker 2: ended up not being able to make it.

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Speaker 1: But her topic was going.

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Speaker 2: To be hands as a lesbian topic, which I think

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Speaker 2: is so rich.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's very rich, and I would love to know

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Speaker 1: where she was coming from. Do you but you like

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Speaker 1: get well you really get that they have hands.

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Speaker 2: No, but it's like, you know, hands are so much

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Speaker 2: more of an important part of lesbian sex. I think

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Speaker 2: is where it's coming from.

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Speaker 1: March. We're in Times Square.

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Speaker 2: As a it's like hands. I think this is what

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Speaker 2: she was going for, hands as a sex organ.

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Speaker 1: Oh well, we'll have to ask, because I don't want

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Speaker 1: to make assumptions because I don't know. Yeah, maybe that's

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Speaker 1: not what she was going for.

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Speaker 2: Okay, maybe i'm once again thinking too academically.

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Speaker 1: You know, maybe she was like the lesbians work with

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Speaker 1: their hands.

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Speaker 2: Oh that's also probably true.

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Speaker 1: You know, who knows, it could be any I'm not

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Speaker 1: here to make assumptions. I'm here to listen.

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Speaker 2: We were being so respectful and open minded last night,

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Speaker 2: but we had one like cheap joke that we did

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Speaker 2: with the U haul, which, by the way, yeah.

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Speaker 1: I'm ready to be defensive. Here she goes, I'm ready

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Speaker 1: to be defensive. We put the U haul joke in

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Speaker 1: the slide show, yeah, because we were like, it's time

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Speaker 1: to talk about classic, classic stereotypes.

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Speaker 2: But then all three of them are like Jesus Christ.

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Speaker 1: Like why would you put this in? And it was like,

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Speaker 1: because I'm curious, how are you thinking about classic stereotype,

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Speaker 1: because gay hair stereotype, it is like it's both embarrassing

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Speaker 1: and annoying and true. Yeah, and so I'm like, how

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Speaker 1: do you guys feel about it? Yeah, but say love.

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Speaker 1: I want to say that. As our string of records

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Speaker 1: in New York comes to a near close, that's right.

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Speaker 1: I feel a little bit. I have that thing where

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Speaker 1: I'm like, did I say everything? And even though we

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Speaker 1: slept too recordings today, I think back and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: you know when a little kid is like really excited

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Speaker 1: to do their dance for the parents and then the

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Speaker 1: parents are like, okay, dance and they don't move at all.

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Speaker 1: I feel like that's what I did. I feel like

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Speaker 1: I was like, I'm so excited to fucking show them

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Speaker 1: everything I've got, and then as soon as they're like

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Speaker 1: okay recording, I'm like, so do you guys like blue

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Speaker 1: or green better? Don't you think though that.

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Speaker 2: The concept of the big moment is like a straight thing,

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Speaker 2: And actually the more queer sensibility is that it's.

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Speaker 1: Just all of performance. Well, that's your class, your theory.

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Speaker 1: Life is a.

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Speaker 2: Cabaret, right, It's like life is a cabaret. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: not that life is preparation for the make.

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Speaker 1: The stage doesn't end when the amazon exactly.

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Speaker 2: So it's like if it's like the director yell's cut,

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Speaker 2: that doesn't mean you're like, fuck, I didn't do what

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Speaker 2: I was gonna do. It's like, I'm going to do

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Speaker 2: it now. I don't give a shit if the cameras

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Speaker 2: are going.

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Speaker 1: To catch it. Yeah. I think that's true.

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Speaker 2: And we have to bring in our guests because we

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Speaker 2: are absolutely edging her as always.

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Speaker 1: As always, this is truly exciting. I'm really excited. I'm excited.

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Speaker 1: I'm nervous. I feel that. You know, we have prestigious

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Speaker 1: guests sometimes, by the way, all the time, all the time,

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Speaker 1: we are we love having prestigious guests, and they love

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Speaker 1: doing the podcast.

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Speaker 2: Let's just want to start there. It's actually like very common.

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Speaker 1: And not to be sort of animal farm coded, but

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Speaker 1: some prestigious guests are more prestigious than others. That's true.

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Speaker 2: And I would say this one's like in the top

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Speaker 2: tier being prestigious.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and so while all are prestigious, some are more

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Speaker 1: prestigious than others. And this is our most.

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Speaker 2: Prestigious Yeah, oh my god.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Well.

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Speaker 2: You know her from her debut smash hit novel Detransition Baby.

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Speaker 2: You know her from her new book stag Dance, and

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Speaker 2: you know her as the guest of this episode of

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Speaker 2: Trader Lab. Please welcome Tory Peters. Hi, what do you

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Speaker 2: think of our intro?

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Speaker 3: To be honest, I was very interested in your interpretations

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Speaker 3: of lesbian culture.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I could see you. We were really like portraying

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Speaker 2: you because we were saying all these things that we want.

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Speaker 3: You to I wanted to jump in on okay thoughts, Well,

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Speaker 3: I think you're correct about Hans.

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Speaker 1: Okay, do you think it was Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I think it was a sex thing. I don't think

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Speaker 3: I don't think anyone's going to be funded by that.

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Speaker 3: You don't have to self cancel.

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Speaker 1: I have to say it was as I'm currently you know,

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Speaker 1: we unpack the podcast as we record the podcast, that's

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Speaker 1: part of it. As I sit in the middle seat,

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Speaker 1: I was finding myself not able to look at you

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Speaker 1: for unprovoe reactions, so I had no the whole time.

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Speaker 1: I was really flying blind. I was being very supportive.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, thumbs up, big smile.

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Speaker 1: That's really helpful to know, because I was like, what

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Speaker 1: if we're bombing and I can't.

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Speaker 3: I was wondering why you weren't making eye contact. I

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Speaker 3: was really ignoring me.

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Speaker 1: I was really focused in on George.

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Speaker 2: And then what do you think about generally self canceling,

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Speaker 2: like the idea that a lesbian small businesses started.

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Speaker 3: I mean, as you were saying that, I was like, oh,

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Speaker 3: actually that is something that I think about. Like this,

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Speaker 3: I'm wearing this jacket, for instance, and it's I don't

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Speaker 3: know if the owner of the company is a lesbian.

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Speaker 3: I don't want to assume, but there's something kind of

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Speaker 3: lesbian Kamala about the marketing of this, this an ar

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Speaker 3: gen jacket.

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Speaker 1: What was the marketing of it?

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Speaker 3: And well, actually, Kamala, I think is one of their

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Speaker 3: I think so like a pink power suit. And I

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Speaker 3: was like, I want I want exactly that to be

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Speaker 3: like I want to blend in on my book tour.

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Speaker 3: So I got like I was like what. I asked

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Speaker 3: some some fast people like what should I get? And

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Speaker 3: they're like, well, this is the this is the thing

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Speaker 3: in which nobody will have an opinion about.

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Speaker 2: Your shoes, and being like, yeah, you don't want to

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Speaker 2: be marked as like.

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Speaker 3: Anything, I want like nobody to notice it.

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry your T shirts. Does your T shirt say

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Speaker 2: tea for tea? It does, and you don't want to

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Speaker 2: be you don't want to be worked as other anyway.

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Speaker 3: That was a mistake. That was an air dressing air today.

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Speaker 3: Yeah no, but I felt like like I want everybody

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Speaker 3: to use my press photos. Basically I have good press photos,

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Speaker 3: and I found if I wore interesting clothing my last tour,

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Speaker 3: it would be like these terrible candids that, for whatever reason,

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Speaker 3: especially Italian photographers love taking awful photos of me.

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Speaker 1: The conspiracy foot photographers want you.

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Speaker 3: Chased by like untalented Italian photographers taking terrible candidates and

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Speaker 3: then doing SEO optimization on their terrible pictures. And I

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Speaker 3: think it was because they were like, oh, this is

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Speaker 3: the this is a different outfit than the press outfit

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Speaker 3: than the press photos, so we'll do this. They felt

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Speaker 3: like Nique, yeah exactly, So now I want to wear

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Speaker 3: something that's like super bland, and if you were like,

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Speaker 3: what's the good photo, they go with my press photo

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Speaker 3: that is just available rather than you know, how bland

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Speaker 3: in my bland terrible candidate.

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Speaker 2: I did notice that in the photo on the jacket

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Speaker 2: of the book, you are wearing a white pantsuit.

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Speaker 3: I got rid of that one in the second printing to.

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Speaker 1: Wait.

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Speaker 2: So you thought that because that, to me is very

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Speaker 2: like Hillary Clinton meets like Annette Benning doing actors on acting.

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Speaker 3: That was that was kind of what I was going for.

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Speaker 3: And there's like such a like such a history of

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Speaker 3: like writers wearing white suits like Tom woll Well Steve

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Speaker 3: Martin's not really those are those are my two loadstars

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Speaker 3: in dressing. But I was like, yeah, I think this

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Speaker 3: is going to be my suit era. But I've had

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Speaker 3: to like have a couple of like restarts on what

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Speaker 3: I want the suit to do.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so then what is the new photo?

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Speaker 3: The new photo is going to be my bland suit. Oh,

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Speaker 3: I want to switch it on. I mean, it's a

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Speaker 3: good photo of me, but you don't really notice a suit.

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Speaker 3: You know, that one is very suit That one you notice? Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's like your you're doing a suit thing in the

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Speaker 3: photo and I'm sort of secondary to the suit.

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Speaker 1: This is You're bringing up something I find really interesting,

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Speaker 1: which is when you're launching sort of a new personal era,

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Speaker 1: you have to make at least three missteps first. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like I've been trying to go cowboy and I'm not

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Speaker 1: doing it today. But I was like I leaned in

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Speaker 1: way too. At first, I was like, I'm going full cowboy,

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Speaker 1: Like I'm wearing like wranglers, cowboy boots, tucking the shirt

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Speaker 1: and wearing the belt. And then it was like it

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Speaker 1: was like confusing and then I can pull back. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like you can wear one. Yeah, you can't do full cowboy.

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Speaker 1: It's silly.

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Speaker 3: I feel that way about about the white suit. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I'll do that very occasionally. Think it's like a special thing.

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Speaker 3: But I think it's like the first printing is a

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Speaker 3: white suit.

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Speaker 1: And then we pulled back, pulled back, Yeah, you got

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Speaker 1: to see how far you can go. Yeah, take one

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Speaker 1: thing off.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but that was like the I think they were like,

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Speaker 3: we're doing a reprint, and I was like, I have

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Speaker 3: a new author. Fun.

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Speaker 1: Does the idea of a book tour? Is that stressful

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Speaker 1: or fun?

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Speaker 3: It's it's fun for the first three weeks, and then

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Speaker 3: you're it's not so much as stressful as you're tired

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Speaker 3: of yourself. Sure, like you get sort of they don't.

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Speaker 3: People want the greatest hits, you know, but like the

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Speaker 3: greatest hits for you are like three jokes and like

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Speaker 3: two ideas and then you're like and then if you

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Speaker 3: deviate actually from it. It's usually the terrible nights is

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Speaker 3: when you when you think like, oh, I have a

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Speaker 3: I have a great new idea that I'm going to

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Speaker 3: try out with this audience, and it's like that was

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Speaker 3: a that was that was bad?

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Speaker 2: Isn't it a self perpetuating thing where like the people

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Speaker 2: that are interviewing you do their research, hear what you

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Speaker 2: said in other interviews, and then they're like, we heard

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Speaker 2: when you were a kid, you had like a favorite

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Speaker 2: doll that you played with, and so then you have

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Speaker 2: to tell the story again and again.

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Speaker 1: Ye oh, that's so interesting. I also realized talking about

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Speaker 1: the podcast. When we make the podcast, me asking is

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Speaker 1: it fun or boring to go on book tour? It

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Speaker 1: was so like little Kid Reporter, you're doing like use

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Speaker 1: for kids, Nicholas, So what's your favorite candy?

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Speaker 3: Like it was so but that was this is like

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Speaker 3: that we were just saying in the intro, the big

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Speaker 3: moment where you're like do you like blue or green?

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Speaker 3: You know, it's like you're just doing it. This is

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Speaker 3: part of the process, and now you're doing it. And

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Speaker 3: I relate to it because when I was like eight

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Speaker 3: years old. I got a chance to interview Jane Jane Goodall,

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Speaker 3: the famous primatologist, and I panicked and I said, so

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Speaker 3: you like monkeys, and it was like exactly this. It

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Speaker 3: was like I had thought about it, like this is

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Speaker 3: gonna be my Moment's gonna be it, and that's just

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Speaker 3: what came out, you know. So, yeah, book tours kind

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Speaker 3: of sometimes boring.

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Speaker 1: I found that as an interviewer, you know, my child

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Speaker 1: like wonder can be really charming, but as an interviewer

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Speaker 1: it can also be quite confusing. I think it's sort

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Speaker 1: of like what are we doing here? You know?

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Speaker 2: But I sort of think I think someone being interviewed ultimately,

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Speaker 2: not to project us on to you, but generally speaking,

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Speaker 2: someone being interviewed just wants to talk about what they

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Speaker 2: want to talk about, sure, and so giving them the

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Speaker 2: most like nothing question is like the best thing you

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Speaker 2: can do because then they can just like monologue.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the advanced interviewing.

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Speaker 1: It's yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 2: So what we've learned so far is don't do your

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Speaker 2: research because you will ask the same questions. And in fact,

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Speaker 2: don't ask questions because that is boxing the interview in.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought your first ones where its fun or no.

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Speaker 3: I was like, well, this is my moment to just monologue.

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Speaker 1: The word fun is so funny to ask like an

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Speaker 1: author is writing fun.

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Speaker 2: Okay, here's a final, final stupid question for you.

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Speaker 1: I have a second final stupid question. We're doing such

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Speaker 1: a good job.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, So my question for you is like, I'm

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Speaker 2: sure people are asking all of annoying questions. So my

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Speaker 2: question for you is, what is like the question you

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Speaker 2: wish someone would ask you that no one ever.

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Speaker 3: Would sorry that question I get like every time.

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Speaker 1: George I was going to I was about to say,

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Speaker 1: I bet you really.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And then it's really hard because I'm like, I'm like,

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Speaker 3: well that question is actually a very common one. And

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Speaker 3: then also you have to like come up each time

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Speaker 3: my new question that that because well, last time that

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Speaker 3: I got asked this question, which is, you know, a

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Speaker 3: few days ago, I came up with like, this is

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Speaker 3: the thing I wish that someone would ask me. And

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Speaker 3: then like by the end, you're just like kind of

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Speaker 3: making up like random, like I wish people would ask

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00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:41,240
Speaker 3: me about my shoes more like every everything else asked

353
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Speaker 3: because of that specific question.

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Speaker 2: I have the theory maybe this is completely wrong. Do

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Speaker 2: you think it's because people are like uncomfortable with asking

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Speaker 2: about big quotes trans issues that they don't want to

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Speaker 2: say the wrong thing, and so then they want you

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Speaker 2: to tell them what to say.

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Speaker 3: Maybe that's it. There's there's two things that happens, and

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00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:03,040
Speaker 3: the other thing that happens is that people are very

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Speaker 3: proud to have not asked about transisues for an entire interview.

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00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:09,919
Speaker 3: So but but like the how proud they are that,

363
00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:13,720
Speaker 3: like we've only talked about writing in this interview, Like

364
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Speaker 3: I don't even care that you're trans, you know, like

365
00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:19,360
Speaker 3: you can like feel that so heavily and like as

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Speaker 3: as you're like getting to the end, and it's like

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Speaker 3: and you've also only talked about writing, and we're kind

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Speaker 3: of waiting for you to bring it up, but also

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Speaker 3: we're proud that we never brought it up. It is

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Speaker 3: like that that like slowly pressurizes that like stand off,

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Speaker 3: you know that you're that I'm in and so I

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Speaker 3: oftentimes will just break and be like I'm trans.

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Speaker 2: It's like checkofs, check offs, check offs trans representation.

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Speaker 1: It's like is it going to be brought up?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Wow, Okay, So what was your stupid question, and then

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Speaker 2: we'll go into smart.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a smart part. Then we'll go into

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Speaker 1: the smart section. I love the book, you know, I was.

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Speaker 1: I think I didn't expect how horny it would be.

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Speaker 1: To be honest, I was so I thought it was

382
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Speaker 1: so horny.

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00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:10,040
Speaker 3: I would agree, but I felt, did you read my

384
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Speaker 3: first book? Wasnt I think.

385
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Speaker 1: Was on here? I'd be like, no, but you I

386
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Speaker 1: did read?

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00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:21,040
Speaker 3: But no, that that's interesting because I feel like the

388
00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:24,719
Speaker 3: first book was hornier, like you know, like they she

389
00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:27,399
Speaker 3: she gets like our ribbon tied around her junk, and

390
00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:29,399
Speaker 3: maybe maybe you were just like that was sad.

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Speaker 1: I did not like it, like this bag dance in particular,

392
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Speaker 1: like the big guy like being like being like treat

393
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Speaker 1: me as the woman. I was like, yeah, that's like

394
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Speaker 1: so hot.

395
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I.

396
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Speaker 2: Think it was just a horniness that like you related

397
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Speaker 2: to more than.

398
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Speaker 1: More. I was like literally, I was like, oh, this

399
00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:55,639
Speaker 1: is why I like to hook up with by guys,

400
00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:57,200
Speaker 1: because they're like treating.

401
00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:00,480
Speaker 3: They're so and then it's so like like they're sold

402
00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:03,080
Speaker 3: and excited my like look what I'm doing now? Oh yeah.

403
00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:06,719
Speaker 1: So and then my dumb question was do you think

404
00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:08,480
Speaker 1: writing is the horniest medium.

405
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Speaker 3: Yeah, if it is horny, it's like a masturbatory horny.

406
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:17,840
Speaker 3: It's like a very like you're like alone, kind of

407
00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:20,840
Speaker 3: pleased with yourself, you know, and what you're like, I

408
00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:25,320
Speaker 3: did it, Oh, I liked it, you know, Like that's

409
00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:27,520
Speaker 3: the the scene maybe that you're thinking about in the

410
00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:34,440
Speaker 3: Lumberjack thing where where the baby onions the oafish lumberjack

411
00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,080
Speaker 3: is hooking up with his boss and like a shanty.

412
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Speaker 3: I wrote that one that day, and I was like,

413
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Speaker 3: I don't know if I was like it was a

414
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,760
Speaker 3: little turned on, but I'm also just like like so

415
00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:50,520
Speaker 3: smugly pleased with myself that there was something very masturbatory

416
00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:53,720
Speaker 3: about my emotions that day. That was like I left

417
00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:56,040
Speaker 3: that day of writing as though I had just like

418
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Speaker 3: taken out her on like gone into like a porn

419
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Speaker 3: wormhole for six Yeah.

420
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Speaker 1: Are you ever like, Okay, this is too horny? You

421
00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:04,679
Speaker 1: have to pull back, Like it's not it's it's too horny,

422
00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:06,440
Speaker 1: it's too hot, No.

423
00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:11,160
Speaker 3: Like usually usually it If it is, If it is that,

424
00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:14,600
Speaker 3: then I am happy, And it's like maybe in like

425
00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:17,280
Speaker 3: later edits, but like anything that's like too much, I

426
00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:19,520
Speaker 3: like to sit with them too much.

427
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Speaker 2: For a while.

428
00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:24,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, and have somebody else tell me that I made

429
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Speaker 3: them uncomfortable.

430
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I loved it. I felt like, yeah, there's a

431
00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,159
Speaker 1: lot of the horniness I was relating to, and the

432
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Speaker 1: sort of like being like why am I doing this

433
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Speaker 1: and then being like but I can't stop.

434
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that that is that's for me, is

435
00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:41,840
Speaker 3: like the kind of hornness, like the confusing horniness. I

436
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:45,879
Speaker 3: think it's like a go to uh both, something I

437
00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:49,560
Speaker 3: go to. I guess emotionally confused horniness. I'm just very

438
00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:53,679
Speaker 3: comfortable there. And and I also think it's like like

439
00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:56,920
Speaker 3: I like characters who actually like don't totally understand what's

440
00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,640
Speaker 3: happening to them, you know. Yeah, And I feel like

441
00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:03,560
Speaker 3: horniness is is a it is something that happens to

442
00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:06,200
Speaker 3: you sometimes something you do. Yeah.

443
00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:09,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a curse and it's terminal. There are times

444
00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:12,240
Speaker 1: when I've done like I'm walking to do something and

445
00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:15,120
Speaker 1: I'm like turn around, turn around, don't do this. Yeah,

446
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:17,200
Speaker 1: and it's like, but I have to I won't rest

447
00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:17,760
Speaker 1: until I go.

448
00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:18,720
Speaker 3: Yeah this, I'm too.

449
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:21,760
Speaker 1: I have to put my life in danger to go

450
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:22,760
Speaker 1: do this. Yeah.

451
00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:26,920
Speaker 2: No, it really feels like you're in Trainspotting, but it's

452
00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:29,320
Speaker 2: instead of heroin, it's horniness.

453
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:31,240
Speaker 1: It's not right.

454
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:36,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's also I think, similarly with how your characters

455
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:39,719
Speaker 2: deal with their horniness, I also think the way they

456
00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,240
Speaker 2: deal with their own cruelty is kind of been the

457
00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:44,800
Speaker 2: same way. Like they almost can't help it and can't

458
00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:47,719
Speaker 2: understand where it's coming from, and they're half conscious of it,

459
00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:51,879
Speaker 2: and they're almost like just conscious enough to feel guilty

460
00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:53,640
Speaker 2: and self loathing about it.

461
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we've entered the smart smart question.

462
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:05,159
Speaker 2: It's like, are you yeah, was that something like was

463
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,520
Speaker 2: the almost like the relationship between cruelty and horniness something

464
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:09,280
Speaker 2: that was in your mind?

465
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:12,560
Speaker 3: Well, I think cruelty is very intimate, right, Like I

466
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:14,639
Speaker 3: think that like when you don't know somebody and you

467
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:16,640
Speaker 3: do something like awful to them, that's just like sort

468
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,879
Speaker 3: of brutality. But that like when you know somebody and

469
00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:23,359
Speaker 3: you like know their like vulnerabilities and the and and

470
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:26,400
Speaker 3: like the like the soft parts of them, and then

471
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:30,040
Speaker 3: you like kind of can't help yourself maybe because like

472
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:32,320
Speaker 3: you know them so well and you're just so like

473
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:35,000
Speaker 3: frustrated or irritated or no, that you just like go

474
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:39,240
Speaker 3: for those vulnerable areas. I mean, that's very intimate, right

475
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:43,240
Speaker 3: to know somebody so so in all their soft parts.

476
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:46,639
Speaker 3: So I think that, like, and that's exactly kind of

477
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:48,399
Speaker 3: what you want to know if you're horning too. So

478
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:50,120
Speaker 3: there is like the cruelty and the horness.

479
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:52,520
Speaker 2: Cruelty is finding the emotional spot.

480
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:55,720
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly, I'm going to borrow that for when I

481
00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:57,960
Speaker 3: go on to going to the UK. I think that

482
00:22:58,040 --> 00:22:58,920
Speaker 3: all the love it.

483
00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:03,480
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you were telling me that. I you know what,

484
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:06,240
Speaker 2: You're gonna have a lovely time in London, go to

485
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:08,159
Speaker 2: the West End, see some plays.

486
00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 1: What a time. The other thing, this is more more

487
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:15,879
Speaker 1: of a reflection of my stupidity rather than a question. Okay,

488
00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:20,399
Speaker 1: well you know that meme.

489
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:23,560
Speaker 3: It's a good start.

490
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know that meme. That's like me as someone

491
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:32,560
Speaker 1: who has only seen trolls two World Tour watching you

492
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:36,280
Speaker 1: know The Godfather. Wow, this is just like World Tour.

493
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:40,760
Speaker 1: I feel like the only like books that I read

494
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:45,040
Speaker 1: like that are about like like hard like fiction books

495
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:48,080
Speaker 1: about gender are like Ursula k Lea Gwinn. So the

496
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:50,000
Speaker 1: whole time I was like, like, especially like the first story,

497
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 1: I was like, wow, this.

498
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:54,480
Speaker 3: Is just like I will take it I mean as

499
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:56,159
Speaker 3: opposed to trust to if you're like, this is just

500
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,359
Speaker 3: like Ursula Gwin. Absolutely, I was.

501
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:03,919
Speaker 1: I liked. I felt like it was fun that you

502
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:07,720
Speaker 1: were going so big and like sci fi you with it.

503
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:12,359
Speaker 3: Like yeah, so like I was, I I wanted to do.

504
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:14,440
Speaker 3: The promise to people who haven't read it is that

505
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:19,639
Speaker 3: each piece is like in a different genre, and and

506
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,120
Speaker 3: that one, the first one is like a speculative fiction

507
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 3: dystopian one about like a gender apocalypse. But I think

508
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:29,399
Speaker 3: it was also like that was the first one that

509
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,679
Speaker 3: I wrote, and it was because I think I was

510
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 3: like it was like twenty sixteen and like Last of

511
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:36,840
Speaker 3: Us the video game come out, it was like the

512
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:38,639
Speaker 3: Road and all starts thing, and I was like, what

513
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:43,880
Speaker 3: genre is everybody into in twenty sixteen, and it was

514
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 3: kind of yeah, like grimy, grimy post apocalyptic stuff, whereas

515
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:51,199
Speaker 3: like now, I think I would I would never do

516
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:52,719
Speaker 3: like a pandemic.

517
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:55,640
Speaker 2: Yeah right, Oh so that was written pre I'm sure

518
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 2: you've talked about this, but it was written pre pandemics.

519
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 3: Pre pandemic, yeah, which, like I think is people are

520
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:02,240
Speaker 3: always like, why don't you expand that one into a

521
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:04,919
Speaker 3: full novel? I don't think you want me to do that, Like,

522
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,120
Speaker 3: I think you've kind of gone through it yourself totally totally.

523
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:10,359
Speaker 2: Although we were saying, how now it's been long enough.

524
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:15,119
Speaker 2: Actually Harry was saying this, right, someone was saying, like,

525
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:19,360
Speaker 2: it's now been long enough that people are craving narratives

526
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 2: about twenty twenty, not just the pandemic, but like even

527
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:24,479
Speaker 2: just like where the culture was in twenty twenty and

528
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 2: how we were also unmoored from reality because we were,

529
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 2: you know, just like undergoing this like insane experience all

530
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 2: together but also alone. Yeah, so I'm almost like it's

531
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,359
Speaker 2: like to pick something like that back up now or

532
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 2: even in like another three years.

533
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:42,120
Speaker 1: Yeah.

534
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 3: I mean I felt actually like the other day when

535
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:49,119
Speaker 3: when Trump announced all that his terroriffts like, and I

536
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 3: felt the world kind of stopped for like a day.

537
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:53,680
Speaker 3: I had like a real like what does this feel like?

538
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:55,200
Speaker 3: What does this feel like? And then I was like, oh,

539
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 3: it feels like March twenty twenty, where everyone's like, is

540
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:01,439
Speaker 3: the economy crashing? Do I have a job? Like should

541
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 3: I stock like fill up my bathtub or whatever weird

542
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,120
Speaker 3: shit we were doing in twenty twenty. Yeah, I had

543
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 3: like a real like I called it like a snow day,

544
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:09,920
Speaker 3: like I don't know where it was. Last week was

545
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 3: like a it was like a pandemic snow day where

546
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 3: I was like, is the world over? And I kind

547
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 3: of wish that, like, yeah, that that had there had

548
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 3: been like more culture about that weird feeling because I

549
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 3: feel like apparently we're going to just keep on having.

550
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:23,159
Speaker 1: Well that's the thing.

551
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 2: I think microdosing March twenty twenty. It's like every few

552
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 2: days you just go through like a less intense version

553
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 2: of it, and it's it's like, yeah, shorter and more

554
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:38,119
Speaker 2: painful rather than this like long drawn out thing. Okay,

555
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 2: I'm like so eager to get on the topic. We

556
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:52,440
Speaker 2: should do our first second. What's our first Okay, Tori Sam,

557
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:53,399
Speaker 2: do you want to Our first.

558
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:55,399
Speaker 1: Segment is called straight Shooters, and in this segment, we're

559
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 1: going to ask you a series of rapidfier questions to

560
00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 1: gauge your familiarity with and complicity and straight culture. It's

561
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 1: basically this thing or this other thing, and the only

562
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 1: rule is you can't ask any followup questions or will

563
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:04,719
Speaker 1: scream at you.

564
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:06,119
Speaker 3: Can I ask a pre question?

565
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 1: I think that might be a follow up question, And

566
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 1: while you. I wanted to say yes to I have

567
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 1: to be noyeah.

568
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:18,920
Speaker 2: I also attempted to say yes because I was like, well,

569
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 2: she's an author.

570
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 3: Yeah. I was like, well, I'm putting as much gravitas

571
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,359
Speaker 3: as I can to get away with to break the

572
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 3: rules of your podcast.

573
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 2: Sorry, Okay, we'll start symbol being the goat or sinking

574
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:35,160
Speaker 2: a boat.

575
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 3: Sinking the boat?

576
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 1: Okay, a dream come true or a steaming pot of stew,

577
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:44,119
Speaker 1: a steaming pot of stew, design within reach, or a

578
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 1: headline that says impeach.

579
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 3: I like design within reach.

580
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:55,159
Speaker 1: A task that's the sophician, or a rash that's cyphilician.

581
00:27:55,480 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 3: Oh, probably a task, yeah, thank you?

582
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 2: Okay, being queer and in stem or drinking beer but

583
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 2: being fam.

584
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:16,119
Speaker 3: Oh oh wow, I'm gonna say drinking beer and being fun.

585
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, Lou tovey Lou or Mama rou.

586
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:22,680
Speaker 3: What was the middle one?

587
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 1: Toy Lou? I don't know what that is. Blow's actual

588
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:28,680
Speaker 1: pronouncing of the name.

589
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:29,919
Speaker 3: You answer to follow up?

590
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 1: Got a constitutional crisis? This is this is twenty twenty

591
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 1: all over again. People are hitting the streets.

592
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 3: Well obviously not.

593
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 2: Let's see which one do I want to do the

594
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 2: Taming of the Shrew or defaming Lucy Lou.

595
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 3: Defaming Lucy Face.

596
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 1: Card never declines, Oh my god, that's Ray Fines.

597
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 3: I like refines, I'm excited to see ye. Oh my god,

598
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 3: it's fine.

599
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 1: I'm actually excited to see Ray Fines as well. Whenever

600
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 1: I see him, I'm like, wow, that's very fine. Yeah.

601
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 1: And also there's you know what Ray finds is to me.

602
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 1: You know how people when you know how to say

603
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 1: lueve right, you get to have like a step up

604
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 1: over like sixty percent.

605
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

606
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, like that's you. And rape literally like I see

607
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 1: that name, and I go, I know how.

608
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 2: To say that, Okay, so because it's not spelled like

609
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 2: it's spelled Ralph, but it's Rafe.

610
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's spelled Ralph Fiennes. And you say, you say, yeah,

611
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 1: you're in the no.

612
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, so Jory.

613
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 2: We rank each guests performance on a scale of zero

614
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 2: to one thousand doves and or zero to one thousand plas,

615
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 2: decided based on based on two GA songs songs. I

616
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 2: have to say, here's what I'm struggling with. I'm like,

617
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 2: do we reward the boldness of asking a follow up question?

618
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 2: Because she beat us at her own game or do

619
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 2: we punish because because she did the one thing that well,

620
00:29:58,520 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 2: you know, I.

621
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 1: Believe a wise and once said that cruelty is the

622
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 1: g spot. So oh my god, you did that to us.

623
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 2: You like found you found our one weakness and use

624
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 2: it against us.

625
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 3: I made it pleasurable.

626
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, literally, I think we should punish.

627
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 2: Oh, okay, we should punish.

628
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 1: Okay.

629
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 2: So I would say without the fallow up pressure, it

630
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 2: would have been nine hundred and thirty doves.

631
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's fact. But with the deduction of.

632
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 2: Six hundreds, six hundreds, it's gonna go ahead and be

633
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 2: three hundred and thirty five ducks. I'm so sorry, Tori,

634
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 2: that's not a passing.

635
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 3: But what is that? And what is that in blades

636
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 3: of grass?

637
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 2: Okay, So there's inflation when it comes to places of

638
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:42,120
Speaker 2: grass in.

639
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 3: Terms of the braids of grass.

640
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 2: I guess, yeah, it's more closer to like six fifty.

641
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 1: It's more closer to six fifty.

642
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's good.

643
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 2: So you got to change it, really, your rise and blades.

644
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 3: Like in other countries. I'll do all right.

645
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 2: When you're in the UK, you can pay yeah, bread

646
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 2: lost zero. Uh, you're actually somehow making yet more than that.

647
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 3: I'm so glad I did this podcast before I went over, Oh.

648
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 1: My God, should we get I would love to hear

649
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 1: so behind the scenes. George knows the topic. I do not,

650
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 1: and I'm so excited to hear what straet topic is

651
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 1: and what's straight about it.

652
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 3: So it's a working theory. But my straight topic is

653
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 3: prolonged divorce and and my theory is that you don't

654
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 3: know if you're in a gay marriage or a straight

655
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 3: marriage until you get divorced, and it is how long,

656
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 3: how prolonged your divorce is that determines how gay or

657
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 3: straight your your your marriage is. And the more prolonged,

658
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 3: the straighter is, the more prolonged your marriage that you get.

659
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 3: And it doesn't really matter your gender how you identify.

660
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 3: It's like it's like when you don't know and then

661
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 3: you get divorced, and if it goes on like two years,

662
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 3: you were in a straight marginal time because.

663
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 1: The queer thing is being like I don't I take

664
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 1: my possessions, I don't care, like.

665
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 3: No, I on think it's even like that, Like I

666
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 3: think like but I think it's like I think it's

667
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 3: like you just can't let go. And I think it's

668
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 3: just like you can't let go because like of you're

669
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 3: just like have ended up very headerout in your thing

670
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,959
Speaker 3: where like one person knows how to cook, one person

671
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 3: knows where like the drain on the sink is, and

672
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 3: you can't leave each other because you're like, how am

673
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 3: I going to drain the sink without this person? How

674
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 3: am I going to turn on the stove or do

675
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 3: all these things? And so you just you just you

676
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 3: dried out forever. And because I'm forty three now and

677
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 3: I'm I'm like I had one round of well, I

678
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 3: divorce myself, but like a round of divorces with a

679
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 3: like age thirty and now, and I think it was

680
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 3: mostly like queer ish people who are getting divorced at

681
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 3: thirty where they were like usually discovering they were queer

682
00:32:56,400 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 3: or something, and they're like, oh, I gotta go. And

683
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 3: it's like straight people in my life in their forties

684
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 3: and they are just trying it out four years and

685
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 3: I'm just like, and everything that they do is so stright,

686
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 3: just like you can just stop this, just stop it.

687
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 2: Don't you think it has to do with like the

688
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 2: more you buy into the institution for lack of a

689
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 2: better word, the more violent it is to break it apart,

690
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 2: because it's like, yes, the more you believe in marriage,

691
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 2: the more difficult it is to step away from it

692
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 2: like you have.

693
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 1: Literally it's all been leading to that.

694
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And I think that's actually what drives me

695
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 3: crazy about this is like everything like just get away

696
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 3: from each other, like just you don't need this, like

697
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 3: you'll be happier and like, and they just can't see it.

698
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 3: They can't see that, like it needs to end. You're

699
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 3: torturing each other, and there's something like I'm just like,

700
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 3: just like this what is happening is like straightness is

701
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 3: torturing you. You are rather than you know, even each

702
00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 3: other are torturing each other. And I've noticed it actually,

703
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 3: like again, like it doesn't even have to be straight people,

704
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 3: Like there's some some gay marriage couples that I know

705
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 3: where I'm just like, the way you're doing this is

706
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 3: like you've you've believed in it too much, You've like

707
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 3: entered into straightness and it's and I didn't know it

708
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 3: the whole time you were together, but now that you're divorcing,

709
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 3: I see that you were in a straight marriage all totally.

710
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:23,759
Speaker 2: I actually I think more broadly gay. You know, since

711
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 2: gay people have been able to get married, there are

712
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 2: there is a spectrum of on the one side, gay

713
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 2: people almost like wanting to emulate straight people yea, and

714
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 2: on the other side being like excited to do something

715
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 2: new with this new right, you know what I mean.

716
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,799
Speaker 2: And so it's like there's a spectrum of straight to

717
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 2: gay marriage within gay marriage.

718
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 3: I agree with you. Wow, I agree with that, And

719
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 3: I mean I even think like you were you were

720
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 3: saying that, like on a previous show that you had

721
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 3: you had classified what was it?

722
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:03,400
Speaker 2: Divorces Lesbian marriage is straight, and like staying together without

723
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,439
Speaker 2: getting divorced is gay male because they're like but.

724
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 1: Like they don't hook up anymore.

725
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like staying in a nuhappy marriage basically is gay

726
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:13,279
Speaker 2: male because they're all open so they don't feel the

727
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:15,759
Speaker 2: need to escape because they just like can't escape every

728
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,240
Speaker 2: night basically, yeah, but just like come home and resent

729
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 2: their husband. And of course the classic thing, my favorite thing,

730
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:24,439
Speaker 2: when it's a gay couple and they're like in a fight,

731
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:27,839
Speaker 2: another person enters the room and one of the husbands goes, oh,

732
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:28,760
Speaker 2: look there's your boyfriend.

733
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 3: But see, to me, that is like that even Okay,

734
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 3: So that's if you just take that like gay couple

735
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 3: not having sex together forever that is either like the

736
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 3: most kind of like oh you've like solved marriage, like

737
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 3: you are like the most enlightened thing, or it's actually

738
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,439
Speaker 3: like you are the you have like reverted to such

739
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 3: straightness that's like nineteen yeah, or even like the Catholic

740
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 3: Church in like the fifteen hundreds, like divorce does not

741
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 3: exist for you. You just have to live with each other

742
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 3: and like and like dream one day of like how

743
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 3: could we possibly separate? It's unthinkable. God does not allow it,

744
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 3: you know, And it's like that's the straightest, the straightest

745
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 3: you could possibly be, is two gay men living together.

746
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:19,240
Speaker 1: It is interesting. It's always like obviously there's no right answer,

747
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 1: but I'm sort of like is that better? Like there's

748
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:25,279
Speaker 1: so many guys Ryan, like could you just break up?

749
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:27,799
Speaker 1: Like let's call it, Like it would be so much

750
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 1: better if you just broke up.

751
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 2: It is interesting how that is almost the default for

752
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 2: long term GI guy relationships. Yeah, where then everyone under

753
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:35,439
Speaker 2: their breath is like.

754
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're always like this.

755
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 3: It's it is and like the even the bickering that

756
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 3: you that you just said, oh, there's your boyfriend or whatever.

757
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 3: It's like that you just stage that with like slightly

758
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 3: different actors and you're like, oh, this is this is

759
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 3: the most conservative like yeah, like British period piece that

760
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 3: we're watching, you know.

761
00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:00,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I'm finding this really interesting because Okay,

762
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 2: so basically is Finality gay or straight? I think it's

763
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 2: like a larger question and out of go ahead.

764
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 1: Well, I think finality is more straight, to be honest,

765
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:12,320
Speaker 1: and I think that's why they make it last longer,

766
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 1: because they know when it's over, it's actually over, whereas

767
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 1: when gay people are breaking up, they are like, we're divorced,

768
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 1: it's over, but we still get lunch every three months. Rare.

769
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 2: Right, So finality is straight and that there's a gravity

770
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:27,360
Speaker 2: to it that straight people are afraid of. You're like,

771
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:32,840
Speaker 2: I will do anything but finality. Yes, yeah, so in

772
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:38,440
Speaker 2: their fight against finality, they are like hurting themselves.

773
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:42,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, when they could, they could sort of. The life

774
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 1: is a cabaret thing, you know. Gay people know when

775
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 1: the cameras are off the stage, you're still on, and

776
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:50,239
Speaker 1: so you know, when the marriage is over, you're still

777
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:52,239
Speaker 1: going to have a relationship with a person. It's just

778
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:54,719
Speaker 1: a different relationship, whereas straight people are like when the

779
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 1: cameras are off, I'm off stage. God.

780
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 3: But I also think that the willingness to be final

781
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 3: would beget like a willingness to like to lean in

782
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:07,959
Speaker 3: and be like, I'm breaking ties and I'm changing everything.

783
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:08,279
Speaker 1: To make a stake.

784
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 3: Why yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, like everything's new about me

785
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:14,399
Speaker 3: now like that that is that?

786
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 2: That well, it's like I'm wearing They're literally debuting, like

787
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:20,839
Speaker 2: a I'm divorced era, and then they're like, actually, I'm

788
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:21,319
Speaker 2: pulling back.

789
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 1: I'm not fully out.

790
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 2: Well, there's also something I think like gay people because

791
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 2: they kind of have this reverence for like a diva,

792
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 2: a straight woman who like a divorce a. I almost

793
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 2: think like to be divorced is so fabulous, whereas like

794
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 2: for a sort of like a straight woman who married

795
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:43,880
Speaker 2: her high school sweetheart, it's such a sign of failure.

796
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 2: It is a real sign of failure. I mean, to

797
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:48,440
Speaker 2: be divorced in like the Sexlent City universe is fabulous.

798
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 2: Well that is, of course, But I do think in

799
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 2: like normal world it can be quite difficult. What do

800
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 2: you think of the recess? And you cannot answer this

801
00:38:57,920 --> 00:38:59,279
Speaker 2: if you don't want to comment on your peers, but

802
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 2: there's been sort of a recent rise in like divorce literature. Yeah,

803
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 2: mostly from women. I would say, yeah in my experience,

804
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:09,840
Speaker 2: Like what do you think that is about?

805
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 3: Well, it was like, I mean that was like the

806
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,800
Speaker 3: de transition. Maybe my first book was dedicated to divorce

807
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:16,399
Speaker 3: cist women.

808
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 1: Oh yes, yeah.

809
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 3: So it was like I felt like I was very

810
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 3: much a part of this like divorce thing, and and

811
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 3: like you know, kind of what I was saying is

812
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 3: like divorce is a transition in the same way that

813
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,359
Speaker 3: like you know, because you you you live your life

814
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 3: a certain way and then you and then you make

815
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 3: a decision and then you have to like go forward

816
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 3: and not get bitter. And also you can't just like

817
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 3: go get married again in the same way with the

818
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 3: same illusions, otherwise you're gonna end up divorced you. And

819
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 3: so I was like, oh, like we can all understand

820
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:49,319
Speaker 3: each other, and I but I feel that this is

821
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:52,719
Speaker 3: actually and so I was like, oh, we can, we

822
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 3: can build bridges, we can understand each other, and like, actually,

823
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:59,239
Speaker 3: like you can like divorce straight sys women. You can

824
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 3: sort of be tryed in a little bit of your way.

825
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,880
Speaker 3: But this is actually sort of the twenty twenties culture

826
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:09,399
Speaker 3: that that like I feel like maybe Hari was talking

827
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 3: about that you were talking about, Like I feel like

828
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:14,440
Speaker 3: that actually now to me feels like a little bit naive,

829
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:19,200
Speaker 3: Like this this sort of like oh, we can all

830
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:22,239
Speaker 3: just kind of like understand and take responsibility for our

831
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 3: for our actions and like not lie to each other.

832
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 3: Like I think that that's like not true for like

833
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:30,960
Speaker 3: having watched people that now get divorced, like, oh no,

834
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 3: you're just going to continue to lie to each other.

835
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 3: And so some degree, like for me, like watching like

836
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:39,279
Speaker 3: transhit over like the last four years is like, oh no,

837
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:42,319
Speaker 3: this is like like you can understand trans people and

838
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:45,040
Speaker 3: actually it's not gonna it's not going to make anything

839
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 3: any better. So I'm like a little bit like down

840
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:51,319
Speaker 3: on divorce literature, right Yeah, although I think there's like

841
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 3: lots of good books that do it. I'm sort of

842
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:56,840
Speaker 3: like it's like I actually don't want to reread the

843
00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 3: whole like FRONTI series, which like in twenty twenties you've

844
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 3: been like do you want to reread for Arounto be

845
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:03,439
Speaker 3: like any day, all the time, I'll do it. I'm

846
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 3: like I actually want like more things burned down now

847
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:08,359
Speaker 3: than I want it that I want.

848
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 1: Yeah.

849
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 2: Like so you're sort of you've turned on divorce as

850
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 2: an optimistic yeah yeah kind.

851
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:20,839
Speaker 3: Of yeah, Like and I don't know what replaces it,

852
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:22,800
Speaker 3: but I could sort of like, oh, you can just

853
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 3: kind of like go through this ritual take stock of

854
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:28,319
Speaker 3: like what you want and who you are, and that's

855
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 3: going to be like enough to like move forward. I

856
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:35,320
Speaker 3: like don't at this moment, like I sort of don't

857
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:38,360
Speaker 3: believe it, Like I feel like, oh, you you something

858
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:41,279
Speaker 3: more than that needs to happen like that, and and

859
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:44,400
Speaker 3: I and in that metaphor of like divorce and transition,

860
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 3: like I also think that like it goes across for

861
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:49,239
Speaker 3: a transition where like there was a there was a

862
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:51,359
Speaker 3: while was like oh you just transition and then you

863
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 3: and then you can live your life as you want.

864
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:55,320
Speaker 3: It's like that's not enough anymore.

865
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 1: Well that was the plot of Amelia Paraze.

866
00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 2: Yeah that's actually not the plot of Amelia if you

867
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:01,319
Speaker 2: remember the ending.

868
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:04,959
Speaker 1: But well, I think but I think what she's saying

869
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:06,879
Speaker 1: is the plot where it's like you think you can

870
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:08,440
Speaker 1: and you're yeah.

871
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:10,960
Speaker 2: Oh, the critique is the plot of Amalia Press.

872
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

873
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:14,880
Speaker 3: And then you I haven't seen that. I've only watched

874
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:17,200
Speaker 3: like clips of it, but I understand that somebody falls

875
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:17,880
Speaker 3: down the mountain.

876
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:21,920
Speaker 1: Go ahead and fall down the mountain, explode. Yeah, she

877
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 1: explodes the best way for any movie to end, and

878
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:26,759
Speaker 1: I actually think more movie should end that way.

879
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 2: It's so complicated. I've spent so much time thinking about.

880
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 3: Amelia Press My friend I started watching it on a

881
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:35,040
Speaker 3: plane and I was just like, this isn't the place, yeah,

882
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 3: for this movie and for me, and like and I

883
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:41,319
Speaker 3: got when I started this tour, I got so many

884
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:43,920
Speaker 3: again not to be like so many questions the same,

885
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:45,279
Speaker 3: but I got a lot of like what do you

886
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:48,560
Speaker 3: think of Amelia Prize? And I was like halfway through

887
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:51,400
Speaker 3: watching on a plane, kind of not understanding what was

888
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 3: going on. And I was like, and then I'm going

889
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:55,920
Speaker 3: to go in like a pine about this movie, totally

890
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 3: not understanding the edited version of it. So I just

891
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:01,440
Speaker 3: turned it off. I haven't returned to it.

892
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:04,360
Speaker 2: I have to say, it's interesting that there's this idea

893
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:08,960
Speaker 2: of trans backlash against Amalia Prez, because every trans person

894
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:11,239
Speaker 2: I know has opted out of seeing it, and they've

895
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:13,920
Speaker 2: been very much like, you know, I'm not at a

896
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 2: place where I can watch that right now, Like it's

897
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:21,200
Speaker 2: I actually think the backlash is almost like manufactured by

898
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 2: sis people who are guilty about watching it or something

899
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 2: and then like imagine an imaginary like mob of trans

900
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:29,640
Speaker 2: people that are mad at Amelia Press.

901
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there's something to that. Yeah. There the

902
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 1: backlash is like I'm like, okay, like it does, yeah

903
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 1: have me doing here?

904
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 2: It almost reminds me of my favorite topic, which is

905
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 2: a women that got sent to space and how we're

906
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:46,200
Speaker 2: at a place where like something like that, which in

907
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen and twenty seventeen would be like the big

908
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 2: news of the day. No one cares enough either to

909
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 2: be empowered by it or to be.

910
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 1: Angry about it.

911
00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just a numbness. It's just like a numbness.

912
00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:00,400
Speaker 2: Like don't can't you imagine like a time and twenty

913
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:04,239
Speaker 2: fifteen where like every website would be have like a

914
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 2: screed about like the pitfalls of girl bossery. Yeah, but

915
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:09,600
Speaker 2: it's like no one gives a shit anymore.

916
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:12,080
Speaker 3: No, I mean, it's just like but it's it's sort

917
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:14,399
Speaker 3: of like also like we've seen this grift so many

918
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 3: times too. It's like we've seen it with like a

919
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 3: deep water submarine. We've seen it like it's.

920
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 1: Kind also ended in Amelia Press. Yeah, that's true.

921
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:27,359
Speaker 3: That that's it if it I guess if that if

922
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:30,600
Speaker 3: they had fallen down a mountain and explodage. Yes, the

923
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:33,279
Speaker 3: spaceship full of Katy Perry and Gay Okay and Souff,

924
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 3: people would have talked about.

925
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 1: No, sorry, but that's what we need, admitted to sending

926
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 1: a message.

927
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:42,759
Speaker 2: They commitsy creating a Melia Press. But I also it's

928
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 2: almost like Ameili Prizes, like the transrepresentation version of women

929
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 2: in Space for Girl Boss, where it's like we've now

930
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 2: gone through the conversation and not just transrepresentation any kind

931
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:57,680
Speaker 2: of like representation politics. We've now gone through the debate

932
00:44:57,719 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 2: of like is it good is a bad? As good

933
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 2: as a bad? So many times that something like Meelee

934
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:04,719
Speaker 2: Press comes along and I'm almost just like unable to

935
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:07,799
Speaker 2: even form an opinion about it. Yeah, it's like remixing

936
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:10,280
Speaker 2: existing arguments that have been had so many times.

937
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, including even like the trans backlash, right, Yeah, like

938
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:17,799
Speaker 3: the imagined mob of like of like somehow trans people

939
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:20,239
Speaker 3: who all have the same opinion. Yeah, it's like you

940
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:22,480
Speaker 3: have to you have not met trans people if you

941
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:24,680
Speaker 3: think there's a mob of them that are somehow in

942
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:27,400
Speaker 3: lockstep or like can you even like not just be

943
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 3: like cats like batting at each other if you put

944
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:34,360
Speaker 3: them together, you know, like that is you that's imagined,

945
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 3: totally imagined situation that they can chant the same thing

946
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:40,320
Speaker 3: at the same time.

947
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:46,440
Speaker 2: As honestly goes back to the lesbian own business that's

948
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 2: doomed to fail. It's like they're not agreeing in those meetings.

949
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 1: I mean also in the Mask or the last story

950
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 1: of the book, it was that was very that where

951
00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 1: it was like this is everyone's like it's a meetup,

952
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 1: but everyone's on such a different page.

953
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:04,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean sometimes it's like the when I talk

954
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:06,319
Speaker 3: about that, it's like it's like we're all kind of

955
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:09,400
Speaker 3: we're all kind of like standing in the same public square,

956
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:11,840
Speaker 3: but like we we all came from like all four

957
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:14,400
Speaker 3: cardinal directions, And if you'd be like, how do you

958
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:16,879
Speaker 3: get here, it'd be like I came over that hill

959
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 3: and I saw a coward's like I have no idea

960
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:21,920
Speaker 3: what journey you took. I have no idea the landmarks

961
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:24,719
Speaker 3: on your way, Like everything you're saying is alien and

962
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:26,920
Speaker 3: strange to me. And the only thing that we have

963
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:29,920
Speaker 3: is that we're kind of like standing in like like

964
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 3: a general vicinity. We're not on the same table. It's

965
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 3: like I see you, like, oh you had You're eating

966
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 3: ice cream and I'm having a coffee. You know.

967
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:40,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is interesting. I do feel like there's a

968
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:45,480
Speaker 1: push to try to like make it seem like almost

969
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:48,480
Speaker 1: like trans people are the like like gay guys, where

970
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 1: it's like the culture of gay guy is and it's

971
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:52,640
Speaker 1: like it does it's not one to one.

972
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I also think that like that

973
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:58,360
Speaker 3: ends up being like the useful thing is like let's

974
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:01,120
Speaker 3: let's let's pretend that I'll try to super like are

975
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:03,440
Speaker 3: out here in a mob telling telling us what we

976
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:06,000
Speaker 3: can or can't say, and it's like, yeah, that's just

977
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:06,560
Speaker 3: it's not.

978
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:12,480
Speaker 1: They were all appointed by Biden. It was Biden appointed

979
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:16,360
Speaker 1: the France mob, the head of which was the Suitcase Steeler,

980
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:18,440
Speaker 1: my favorite. Oh yeah, I remember.

981
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was a good Biden appointment.

982
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 1: That was a really good that was like Biden kind

983
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:24,960
Speaker 1: of ate with that one.

984
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:30,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was that that. I was just laughing picturing

985
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:34,480
Speaker 3: that person and picturing also like the protests, like that

986
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 3: that the way that that person protested like I did

987
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:37,880
Speaker 3: steal suitcase.

988
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:46,760
Speaker 1: But like wearing outfits all over town, so genius. I Also,

989
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:51,040
Speaker 1: now there's a thing. I feel very conspiratorial around Internet

990
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:55,480
Speaker 1: backlash in general, because it feels like like websites are

991
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 1: basically like we need to find four tweets and then

992
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:01,080
Speaker 1: we can say there's a backlash and it's like it's

993
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:01,719
Speaker 1: not about.

994
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:04,600
Speaker 2: Also, but also I have become so conspiratorcy I mean,

995
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:08,840
Speaker 2: I've become so conspiratually about literally everything being paid bots,

996
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 2: which is I remember in when people were like when

997
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:19,239
Speaker 2: I'm whatever, like the kind of stereotypical center lib, you know,

998
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:23,360
Speaker 2: fifty year old post Trump was like the Russians Russian bots,

999
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:25,879
Speaker 2: like it's Cambridge Analytica, and I was like, oh god,

1000
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:28,120
Speaker 2: you guys need to get it together. Now I have

1001
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 2: become that. But for like a thread that's like, you know,

1002
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:34,200
Speaker 2: as Elia makes his worst moment, I'm like someone paid

1003
00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:37,480
Speaker 2: for that. The Blake Lively, like the Blake Lively thing.

1004
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:39,760
Speaker 2: The only conclusion I drew from that is like, Okay,

1005
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:42,359
Speaker 2: so it's all fake. There's no one actually mad at

1006
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 2: Blake Lively or or or there's no one that actually

1007
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 2: in their mind is like, wow, she actually was really

1008
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 2: rude to that interviewer. It's literally just like someone behind

1009
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 2: the scenes at Bleep Agency.

1010
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:58,640
Speaker 3: But that's a very appealing worldview. And sorry, that actually

1011
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:00,960
Speaker 3: makes you sound very chill like, even though it makes

1012
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:03,840
Speaker 3: you sound like you're like wearing, it's like also like

1013
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:06,279
Speaker 3: you're like the chilliest to netwhere you're like, it's just

1014
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 3: it's just the bots to chill out.

1015
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:14,239
Speaker 1: Everybody loves it's actually, yeah, it's kind of beautiful. You're

1016
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:15,520
Speaker 1: even like no one's mad.

1017
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:19,920
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, but then I'm also like the most well,

1018
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 2: I'm like, no one's mad, But then I'm also like

1019
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:23,880
Speaker 2: we're living in like the last of us post apocalyptic

1020
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:25,759
Speaker 2: world because no one knows what's real or what's fake.

1021
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:29,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, but soon it'll all be over.

1022
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:31,840
Speaker 2: Oh that's true.

1023
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:32,920
Speaker 3: Kind of cheerful.

1024
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:40,120
Speaker 1: This is very who cares, they love you, they love

1025
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:44,839
Speaker 1: you based podcast. I find it to be a really

1026
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:50,120
Speaker 1: powerful mantra, you know. I find it there's a silliness

1027
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:53,879
Speaker 1: to it. There's a sort of detachment to it, and

1028
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:55,440
Speaker 1: I think both of those are really important.

1029
00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:57,640
Speaker 2: Right now, Tori, I want to give you a challenge,

1030
00:49:57,920 --> 00:49:59,920
Speaker 2: which is you know, for each of these stories, you

1031
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:02,239
Speaker 2: experimented with a different genre. I would love to see

1032
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:06,480
Speaker 2: experimental with the genre of middle brow humor, essays of

1033
00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:08,399
Speaker 2: the type that you find at airports. And I want

1034
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:12,640
Speaker 2: you to write a book that's called like you know,

1035
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 2: someone's on my seat, not.

1036
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 1: Me, writing a book for you to read on the

1037
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:20,360
Speaker 1: airplane and other concerns.

1038
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:23,680
Speaker 3: I would I mean, I feel like that's actually like

1039
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:26,479
Speaker 3: the dream, Yeah, is that like you know, you get

1040
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:29,840
Speaker 3: like you get like a I feel like actually a

1041
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:33,600
Speaker 3: lot of like really great writers get to a point

1042
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:36,239
Speaker 3: in their life where they're like offered a cruise, you know,

1043
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:39,760
Speaker 3: and then cruises, oh yeah, like the famous like David

1044
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:43,000
Speaker 3: Foster Wallace, like a supposedly fun thing you've never yeah,

1045
00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:44,319
Speaker 3: you've never done whatever it.

1046
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:45,680
Speaker 1: Is, I'll never do again.

1047
00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:48,279
Speaker 3: I'll never do again. Like it's like it's like he

1048
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:50,239
Speaker 3: basically just like I get to go on like a

1049
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:53,239
Speaker 3: carnival cruise or whatever, and I'll like try and elevate it.

1050
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 3: And then he was like riffing on like Frank Conroy

1051
00:50:56,719 --> 00:50:59,480
Speaker 3: going on a carnival crew on some other cruise where

1052
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:00,040
Speaker 3: you get.

1053
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:01,400
Speaker 1: And Gerry Steinert just did it.

1054
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:04,160
Speaker 3: Gery Steiner, I mean Gary Steiner loves to go on

1055
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:05,799
Speaker 3: like a paid travel thing like.

1056
00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:08,120
Speaker 1: I know, but I'm also like I stand like.

1057
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:11,440
Speaker 3: I like, I would love to hear him like in dubibing,

1058
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:14,400
Speaker 3: like I'm eating chicken hearts and like whatever it is.

1059
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:16,800
Speaker 3: It's like and you got paid ten thousand dollars to

1060
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:19,160
Speaker 3: do this and like and you don't care, like the

1061
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:22,160
Speaker 3: way I mean, I love the way that Gery Steinert

1062
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:23,759
Speaker 3: doesn't care that. It was like I just wrote an

1063
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:27,320
Speaker 3: entire novel about roll Axis, you know, that's like that's

1064
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:29,880
Speaker 3: just I have a nice watch. I like my watch,

1065
00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:33,239
Speaker 3: and now that's my novel. Like I kind of appreciate

1066
00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:37,680
Speaker 3: his like his like just just what I've gotten recently

1067
00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:41,520
Speaker 3: for free is the thing that interests me. And I

1068
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:42,200
Speaker 3: understand that.

1069
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:44,680
Speaker 1: You know, when you said writers going cruise, I was

1070
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:47,000
Speaker 1: thinking about like how comedians going like I.

1071
00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 2: Was like, I was, like, they're performing.

1072
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:53,840
Speaker 3: I mean it's sort of similar though, like Lauren Oiler

1073
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:55,560
Speaker 3: went on the Goop cruise.

1074
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:56,760
Speaker 1: On this podcast.

1075
00:51:56,840 --> 00:51:59,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, Laurena Oiler did it and did like and did

1076
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:02,320
Speaker 3: the same you know, very very funny, but did the

1077
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:04,759
Speaker 3: same thing. Where it's like, now that I'm on a

1078
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:07,399
Speaker 3: cruise as a writer, I'm going to reference every other

1079
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:09,680
Speaker 3: writer who is on a cruise as a sort of

1080
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 3: like way of like this is a literary tradition, and

1081
00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:14,560
Speaker 3: also I got a free.

1082
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:17,840
Speaker 2: Cruise, Like I think it's great. I know that people

1083
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:20,759
Speaker 2: do roll their eyes at that genre, but I'm like,

1084
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:24,719
Speaker 2: it's fun to it's fun for something to be like

1085
00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:27,239
Speaker 2: a thing you revisit. I'm trying to think of like

1086
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:32,720
Speaker 2: what an equivalent thing is for It's like even honestly,

1087
00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:36,080
Speaker 2: Chelsea Pretty and her special when she's like every comedian,

1088
00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:39,520
Speaker 2: every male comedian fucks the stool, like doesn't act where

1089
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:41,480
Speaker 2: they fuck the stool, and so Chelsea.

1090
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:42,160
Speaker 3: How do you make it yours?

1091
00:52:42,239 --> 00:52:43,560
Speaker 1: Yea, how do mean yours?

1092
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:45,960
Speaker 2: And so Chelsea's thing is like I want to sort

1093
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:49,200
Speaker 2: of riff on that by doing for me, it's I'm

1094
00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:52,319
Speaker 2: passively taking it from the stool. She's just like, is

1095
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:55,839
Speaker 2: like right by the stool, and she's just like sitting there,

1096
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:57,680
Speaker 2: and then she's like and then things got crazy and

1097
00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:02,719
Speaker 2: she turns around in her butt sitting there. But it's like, yeah,

1098
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:04,080
Speaker 2: that's actually what culture is.

1099
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:07,000
Speaker 1: No, it's it's how you interpret it and reference it.

1100
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:09,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, if someone offered me a cruise at

1101
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:11,680
Speaker 3: this point, it's like got such a tradition. Then I

1102
00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:13,640
Speaker 3: wouldn't just be like I would of course be like

1103
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:15,680
Speaker 3: I'm a little bit selling out and I am taking

1104
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:18,839
Speaker 3: the cruise, but I would also be like like sort

1105
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:22,440
Speaker 3: of like I'm in that camp, like I'm an oiler,

1106
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:28,200
Speaker 3: steaker steinardt camp. Like that's quite uh, I'm quite honored

1107
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:31,319
Speaker 3: to be to be offered the chance to sell out

1108
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:36,040
Speaker 3: for a cruise, and I mean I would.

1109
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:43,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, you well, cruise directors, this is magazines, et cetera.

1110
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:48,600
Speaker 2: Oh, you know, cruises are actually really scary because did

1111
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:51,719
Speaker 2: you read the New York mag piece about cruises about

1112
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:54,239
Speaker 2: the people that got left behind and then could not

1113
00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:57,160
Speaker 2: make their way back. You know, so there are these

1114
00:53:57,200 --> 00:54:00,440
Speaker 2: people on a cruise and they like they were off

1115
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:04,040
Speaker 2: at one of the stops and then we're like running

1116
00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:05,680
Speaker 2: to get back on the cruisehip with the crusehip left

1117
00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:10,160
Speaker 2: without them, and then it describes this they weren't Basically,

1118
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:13,760
Speaker 2: cruise ships have no liability whatsoever, like no laws applied

1119
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:16,560
Speaker 2: to them. People like a shocking number of people die

1120
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:18,960
Speaker 2: on cruise every year. No one is held accountable. These

1121
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:20,400
Speaker 2: people were trying to get back on the cruise, and

1122
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:21,960
Speaker 2: the cruise was just like we don't care, like we're

1123
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:25,240
Speaker 2: just gonna like do our thing. They had medical issues

1124
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:27,320
Speaker 2: that they didn't have their medicine for because the medicine

1125
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:29,879
Speaker 2: was still on the cruise. It's like this insane thing

1126
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:34,040
Speaker 2: that you're sort of like basically just putting your life

1127
00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:36,200
Speaker 2: in their hand and the cruise ship company's hands.

1128
00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:38,440
Speaker 3: It's like the law of the sea applies, is like

1129
00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:39,200
Speaker 3: maritime law.

1130
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:43,440
Speaker 2: Yes, it's a combination of that and also some version

1131
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:48,160
Speaker 2: of basically cruise company lobbying such that they're very loosely regulated.

1132
00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:49,600
Speaker 3: I mean, I guess I sort of hear about that.

1133
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:52,000
Speaker 3: This sort of like weird ghost ships of like cruise

1134
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:55,040
Speaker 3: cruise ships or everybody has neuro virus at the same time.

1135
00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:58,480
Speaker 2: And the most scary thing is that cruise people like

1136
00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:00,919
Speaker 2: people that because the thing with cruise people is that

1137
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:04,640
Speaker 2: most people on a cruise are serial cruise ship go right.

1138
00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:05,600
Speaker 1: It's like a cult.

1139
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:09,640
Speaker 2: And so when you raise these points to them, it's

1140
00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:12,480
Speaker 2: like you're talking to scientologists. Like they don't accept like

1141
00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:15,680
Speaker 2: you'll be like they're likes. Because the bridget read, the

1142
00:55:15,719 --> 00:55:17,680
Speaker 2: writer who wrote the story like interviewed a lot of

1143
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:21,080
Speaker 2: cruise ship people, and they like would not accept that

1144
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:23,400
Speaker 2: cruise ship companies make mistakes, like they were just and

1145
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:25,799
Speaker 2: they would be mad at the people who got left

1146
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:27,200
Speaker 2: and they were like, well they told us, like you

1147
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:29,600
Speaker 2: have to be back by ten fifty five.

1148
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:30,439
Speaker 1: You know, someone's dying.

1149
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:32,120
Speaker 3: That is very religious.

1150
00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:35,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, well this is maybe a point to we need

1151
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:39,920
Speaker 1: to sort of lower the bar for the type of

1152
00:55:40,160 --> 00:55:42,000
Speaker 1: like the writer that can go on a cruise ship.

1153
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:44,399
Speaker 1: You shouldn't. It shouldn't be like sort of you've made

1154
00:55:44,560 --> 00:55:46,400
Speaker 1: a really successful career and now you get to do

1155
00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:49,399
Speaker 1: cruise ship. They need to get beginning journalists out there.

1156
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:51,759
Speaker 1: It should be an unpaid should unpaid internship, because we

1157
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:54,400
Speaker 1: need more journalists on cruise ships to uncover what is

1158
00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:57,720
Speaker 1: going on. Yeah, yeah, that's true enough sort of language

1159
00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:00,400
Speaker 1: about what it means to be on a cruise and

1160
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:02,560
Speaker 1: more about like the crimes that are being committed. Actually,

1161
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:03,480
Speaker 1: I have a question for Yourtory.

1162
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:05,360
Speaker 2: We were talking about this at some point, what with

1163
00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:09,600
Speaker 2: the contemporary version of specifically David Fosteral is in that

1164
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:12,160
Speaker 2: era going on a cruse ship, Like, yes, the writer

1165
00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:14,600
Speaker 2: going on a cruise is a tradition and everyone does it,

1166
00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:18,239
Speaker 2: but at this point, it's so referenced, it's so referencing

1167
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:21,879
Speaker 2: past cruise ships that it's barely about like it's not

1168
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:25,120
Speaker 2: really about like what it says about society that we

1169
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:27,560
Speaker 2: go on cruise ships. Like the contemporary thing would be

1170
00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:32,360
Speaker 2: something like what is so like Lynchean and postmodern about

1171
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:35,239
Speaker 2: society that you that someone would comment on like is

1172
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:37,799
Speaker 2: it going to like an influencer conference, Is it going

1173
00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:40,520
Speaker 2: to like what is so depraved about our society that

1174
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:44,800
Speaker 2: now you would want like a highbrow writer to perform

1175
00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:45,640
Speaker 2: analysis on?

1176
00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:46,160
Speaker 1: Okay?

1177
00:56:46,239 --> 00:56:48,000
Speaker 3: Why have two thoughts on that? Yeah, One is that

1178
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:50,200
Speaker 3: I feel like this is like one of the things

1179
00:56:50,200 --> 00:56:53,080
Speaker 3: happened is that this genre has been like sort of exhausted,

1180
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:55,799
Speaker 3: like we're going to find the Lynchian thing so like

1181
00:56:56,040 --> 00:57:00,160
Speaker 3: even and it ends up becoming like depraved in the

1182
00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:02,719
Speaker 3: practice of it. Like I feel like the number of

1183
00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:04,640
Speaker 3: writers who are like I'm going to like a right

1184
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:06,399
Speaker 3: I'm going to go hang out with like right wing

1185
00:57:06,520 --> 00:57:10,080
Speaker 3: influencers and try and like make them interesting to us,

1186
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:13,239
Speaker 3: Like I'm the it makes me like sick.

1187
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:14,880
Speaker 2: It's like a bankrupt project.

1188
00:57:14,920 --> 00:57:17,080
Speaker 3: It's like this this this idea of like, oh, we're

1189
00:57:17,120 --> 00:57:18,880
Speaker 3: just going to find out what the what the you know,

1190
00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:20,640
Speaker 3: We're gonna find out what the fascist think, you know

1191
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:22,880
Speaker 3: at their little and their little fashion, like oh they

1192
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:25,760
Speaker 3: wear this hat or they wear this shoe. Ooh interesting.

1193
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:28,600
Speaker 3: It's like that's we're no longer like at the State

1194
00:57:28,640 --> 00:57:31,640
Speaker 3: Fair with David Foster Wallas, where like we're laundering something

1195
00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:34,280
Speaker 3: when we do this. So I'm like, I'm kind of

1196
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:38,960
Speaker 3: like I'm kind of like in the typical magazine version

1197
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:41,640
Speaker 3: of this, I'm like this this thing is it doesn't

1198
00:57:41,640 --> 00:57:44,840
Speaker 3: work anymore now. And so like, because I too am

1199
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:48,080
Speaker 3: always like, what what is a great magazine assignment that

1200
00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:49,880
Speaker 3: I could like pitch for myself where I get to

1201
00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:52,280
Speaker 3: go do something kind of enjoyable and eat nice food

1202
00:57:53,160 --> 00:57:56,040
Speaker 3: and you know, I absolutely want that, you know, and

1203
00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:57,960
Speaker 3: and that I but then I could also be saying

1204
00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:00,480
Speaker 3: something while I'm doing and like most of the things

1205
00:58:00,520 --> 00:58:02,520
Speaker 3: I could be saying are like kind of awful at

1206
00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:06,760
Speaker 3: this point. But I will say that I think that

1207
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:09,960
Speaker 3: probably the frontiers on this are like I would like

1208
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:16,280
Speaker 3: to see a serious writer take on Discord gooning, No,

1209
00:58:16,400 --> 00:58:20,280
Speaker 3: this is so good? Yeah, that would like I feel

1210
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:22,640
Speaker 3: like it's not not a thing in life, but like

1211
00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:27,320
Speaker 3: that there's like whole like cultures that like I need

1212
00:58:27,480 --> 00:58:30,600
Speaker 3: somebody that are like that are like not like oh

1213
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:32,280
Speaker 3: it's like a great place you go to, but like

1214
00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:35,360
Speaker 3: the like I didn't know about discord gooning until like

1215
00:58:35,480 --> 00:58:39,960
Speaker 3: last year, and then I was like fascinated with discord.

1216
00:58:39,600 --> 00:58:43,040
Speaker 2: Gooning, And can you actually explain with so like.

1217
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:46,080
Speaker 3: You have like whatever your fetish is, right, it's like

1218
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:50,959
Speaker 3: there's whole discords right where your thing is. You sign

1219
00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:55,120
Speaker 3: under a discord and there's like there's like thousands of

1220
00:58:55,160 --> 00:58:59,160
Speaker 3: other people on these discords and that like then you

1221
00:58:59,200 --> 00:59:02,440
Speaker 3: like spend all day gooning, you know, like but but

1222
00:59:02,600 --> 00:59:05,960
Speaker 3: like it's it's like so it's like it's like I

1223
00:59:06,080 --> 00:59:08,960
Speaker 3: knew about this basic thing from like chat when I

1224
00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:11,520
Speaker 3: was like okay, they're like, oh, like you know asl

1225
00:59:11,720 --> 00:59:13,880
Speaker 3: like age sex, and then you're kind of like I'm

1226
00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:15,640
Speaker 3: in it with you. I'm like doing a thing. But

1227
00:59:15,720 --> 00:59:21,720
Speaker 3: it's like so overwhelmingly like like sensory attack now where

1228
00:59:21,720 --> 00:59:23,920
Speaker 3: it's like you can be in voice channels, you can

1229
00:59:23,960 --> 00:59:26,200
Speaker 3: be like you're gooning with other people in voice channels,

1230
00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:29,919
Speaker 3: you're sending them every two seconds like some porn that's

1231
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:33,560
Speaker 3: like their triggers, Like you're like breaking each other's brains

1232
00:59:34,320 --> 00:59:38,280
Speaker 3: in the discord goon, you know, as you're just masturbating

1233
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:40,480
Speaker 3: for it, like you know on adderall for hours and

1234
00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:43,000
Speaker 3: hours and hours, so you've have like like in marathon

1235
00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:47,160
Speaker 3: endurance for it and like and then and to me,

1236
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:51,160
Speaker 3: I'm just like this explains so much. Like like I

1237
00:59:51,240 --> 00:59:53,560
Speaker 3: kind of like when I see people, I'm like and

1238
00:59:53,560 --> 00:59:55,040
Speaker 3: I'm like, why are they doing this thing? It's like, well,

1239
00:59:55,040 --> 00:59:58,920
Speaker 3: they're probably coming off of like twenty two hours of gooning,

1240
00:59:59,400 --> 01:00:00,760
Speaker 3: Like I all, you.

1241
01:00:02,280 --> 01:00:04,000
Speaker 1: Never know what people are going through. I'm so glad

1242
01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:07,240
Speaker 1: you brought this up. I learned about discord like jerk

1243
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:12,360
Speaker 1: off groups recently and I have it. Luckily, I'm technically untalented,

1244
01:00:12,440 --> 01:00:14,600
Speaker 1: so I haven't found my way in. Yeah, but I

1245
01:00:14,640 --> 01:00:16,160
Speaker 1: was like, well, I've got to check that out.

1246
01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:18,320
Speaker 3: There is a level of tech to do it that

1247
01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:21,000
Speaker 3: is like that is like like I wanted to I

1248
01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:22,920
Speaker 3: wanted to see it, and I'm like, you have to

1249
01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:25,520
Speaker 3: really be invested. But I feel like once you're invested,

1250
01:00:25,600 --> 01:00:29,400
Speaker 3: like it seems that the payoffs are hot. It's like

1251
01:00:30,160 --> 01:00:32,560
Speaker 3: it's like once you're in, you're like I'm set like

1252
01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:35,040
Speaker 3: I don't need the real world anymore. It's great that.

1253
01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:38,160
Speaker 1: People are getting weirder in a way that I am

1254
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:41,640
Speaker 1: finding myself curious about. Like I am like I follow

1255
01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:44,920
Speaker 1: a guy on porn Twitter that like like puts his

1256
01:00:45,080 --> 01:00:48,440
Speaker 1: full id up and it's just like just to humiliate me.

1257
01:00:49,560 --> 01:00:52,800
Speaker 1: And I'm like, wow, he puts his phone. He's like

1258
01:00:52,920 --> 01:00:55,040
Speaker 1: just text me and tell me I'm pitiful, And I'm

1259
01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:56,120
Speaker 1: like this is weird.

1260
01:00:56,240 --> 01:00:59,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I just don't think that like real life

1261
01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:05,560
Speaker 3: can can achieve that level of like like dopamine sensory humiliation.

1262
01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:09,800
Speaker 3: Like if it's like I I was weird, you know,

1263
01:01:09,960 --> 01:01:12,440
Speaker 3: like on the street and like some people just like

1264
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:15,280
Speaker 3: and like you know, a few people snickered and you're

1265
01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:17,880
Speaker 3: like I was mildly humiliated. But when you have like

1266
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:22,040
Speaker 3: twenty thousand people on the internet damn doing that, It's

1267
01:01:22,040 --> 01:01:27,120
Speaker 3: like you're the sensory overload that is possible for this

1268
01:01:27,240 --> 01:01:30,280
Speaker 3: kind of thing now is is is so fascinating?

1269
01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:33,640
Speaker 1: Like well, and then that like becomes the point, like

1270
01:01:33,880 --> 01:01:36,480
Speaker 1: I've seen so many things of like porn is my life,

1271
01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:40,040
Speaker 1: Like I will yea, like quit your family and watch

1272
01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:42,280
Speaker 1: porn and like it's like crazy where it's like the

1273
01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:45,720
Speaker 1: like religion of porn becomes like the new thing.

1274
01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:49,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I need a respectable writer who's not part

1275
01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:51,120
Speaker 3: of this to like get I want like Barbara King

1276
01:01:51,200 --> 01:01:55,400
Speaker 3: Salver and I'm just like doing. You know, this is

1277
01:01:55,440 --> 01:01:57,720
Speaker 3: the culture of goooning. I've I've uncovered it.

1278
01:01:57,920 --> 01:02:02,600
Speaker 1: I that's so genius. Yeah, you know I we started

1279
01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:05,600
Speaker 1: this morning and we're ending in I really appreciate that.

1280
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:08,400
Speaker 3: I want them to like uncover the big goon.

1281
01:02:10,240 --> 01:02:12,360
Speaker 1: Big the big goon has not been exposed.

1282
01:02:13,640 --> 01:02:16,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know what's actually sick is like so

1283
01:02:16,480 --> 01:02:20,120
Speaker 2: many people are hypocrites and are so sex positive in

1284
01:02:20,160 --> 01:02:22,280
Speaker 2: their writing and then their addages or whatever, and they

1285
01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:25,400
Speaker 2: would absolutely cower at the sight of the big goom.

1286
01:02:25,720 --> 01:02:28,160
Speaker 2: They would not have the bravery to look at in the.

1287
01:02:28,080 --> 01:02:32,000
Speaker 3: Outs like strap on their pio.

1288
01:02:34,560 --> 01:02:36,600
Speaker 1: Barbara King Sliver, if you're listening, this.

1289
01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:37,720
Speaker 2: Is your this is your moment.

1290
01:02:37,800 --> 01:02:40,400
Speaker 3: It's great that you got the pulitzer, but can you

1291
01:02:40,440 --> 01:02:42,600
Speaker 3: can you face the big g Yeah?

1292
01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:46,520
Speaker 1: Wow? Wow, Well that was amazing.

1293
01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:48,760
Speaker 2: I think we should we do our final any final

1294
01:02:48,800 --> 01:02:51,920
Speaker 2: thoughts on on prolonged divorce as a straight.

1295
01:02:53,200 --> 01:02:57,640
Speaker 3: No, just just just rip the band off, like I

1296
01:02:57,680 --> 01:02:59,240
Speaker 3: think I'll just say I think it should be a

1297
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:02,080
Speaker 3: four month process. Okay, wow, I think if we're going

1298
01:03:02,120 --> 01:03:04,760
Speaker 3: to do an arbitrary thing, I think from proposing your

1299
01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:08,000
Speaker 3: divorce to filing it, four months is reasonable. That's really

1300
01:03:08,040 --> 01:03:10,840
Speaker 3: reuble and you can still be it. It's a gay marriage.

1301
01:03:10,880 --> 01:03:13,120
Speaker 3: If you're if you've been doing in four months, anything

1302
01:03:13,160 --> 01:03:15,640
Speaker 3: after that, you you you're in a stortain marriage.

1303
01:03:15,960 --> 01:03:17,640
Speaker 1: Wow. Wow, yeah you heard it.

1304
01:03:17,640 --> 01:03:21,600
Speaker 2: Your greatest marriage, Brandelina. Yeah, they're still going. Oh I

1305
01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:23,880
Speaker 2: think I think they're still divorcing my wrong.

1306
01:03:24,040 --> 01:03:24,240
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1307
01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:27,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's like it's been years. I had no idea,

1308
01:03:28,240 --> 01:03:30,000
Speaker 2: and they are actually, if you think about it, sort

1309
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:31,920
Speaker 2: of the archetypal straight American couple.

1310
01:03:32,360 --> 01:03:33,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, of this generation.

1311
01:03:33,920 --> 01:03:36,080
Speaker 3: I think, like you don't have to like have everything

1312
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:38,280
Speaker 3: settled after four months. Like if you're like them and

1313
01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:41,520
Speaker 3: you own like a rose wine thing, it's like who

1314
01:03:41,520 --> 01:03:44,600
Speaker 3: gets the rose It's that is like that's difficult to men.

1315
01:03:44,720 --> 01:03:47,720
Speaker 1: That's different paperwork, and that's the lawyers. Yeah, but you.

1316
01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:49,640
Speaker 3: Know you have to like settle that we are going

1317
01:03:49,720 --> 01:03:51,080
Speaker 3: to split up the Rose Eyes.

1318
01:03:51,320 --> 01:03:51,480
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1319
01:03:52,440 --> 01:03:55,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, they finalized December.

1320
01:03:56,600 --> 01:03:59,280
Speaker 2: We're getting word that they finalized December twenty twenty we

1321
01:03:59,360 --> 01:03:59,800
Speaker 2: have we.

1322
01:03:59,720 --> 01:04:03,600
Speaker 1: Have one once again spread misinformation and December twenty twenty four.

1323
01:04:03,720 --> 01:04:07,000
Speaker 1: Huh huh, still pretty recent. You know the rose is

1324
01:04:07,080 --> 01:04:11,320
Speaker 1: not bad. Oh I tried it recently. Anyway, Let's do

1325
01:04:11,360 --> 01:04:24,280
Speaker 1: our final segment, Okay, Tori. Our final segment is called

1326
01:04:24,280 --> 01:04:26,480
Speaker 1: shout Outs, and in this segment we pay homage to

1327
01:04:26,520 --> 01:04:29,600
Speaker 1: the grand straight tradition of the radio shout out, shouting

1328
01:04:29,600 --> 01:04:33,520
Speaker 1: out to anything that we are enjoying, people, places, things, ideas.

1329
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:35,800
Speaker 1: Imagine in two thousand and one, you're at TRL shouting

1330
01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:36,760
Speaker 1: out to your squad back.

1331
01:04:36,600 --> 01:04:38,400
Speaker 2: Home, and we have to think, like we have to

1332
01:04:38,400 --> 01:04:40,200
Speaker 2: think about it on the spot, which is why I

1333
01:04:40,240 --> 01:04:41,080
Speaker 2: have my thinking.

1334
01:04:40,880 --> 01:04:44,160
Speaker 1: Based on here's okay, I have one. I have one. Okay,

1335
01:04:45,680 --> 01:04:48,720
Speaker 1: what's up freakslusions and perverts around the globe. I want

1336
01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:52,520
Speaker 1: to give a shout out to listening to different music

1337
01:04:52,640 --> 01:04:57,160
Speaker 1: in different locations and having it hit different. I you know,

1338
01:04:57,240 --> 01:05:00,520
Speaker 1: this is sort of a basic concept, but some times,

1339
01:05:00,600 --> 01:05:04,320
Speaker 1: you know, as I've been living in Los Angeles, some

1340
01:05:04,560 --> 01:05:07,560
Speaker 1: music I'm like, seeing it makes sense more, and some

1341
01:05:07,720 --> 01:05:09,320
Speaker 1: music I've been like, I know this is good and

1342
01:05:09,360 --> 01:05:10,840
Speaker 1: I know that I like this, but it's not hitting

1343
01:05:10,840 --> 01:05:13,320
Speaker 1: as hard as I want. Today, I was walking through

1344
01:05:13,360 --> 01:05:15,320
Speaker 1: New York City and I was taking the subway, and

1345
01:05:15,360 --> 01:05:17,560
Speaker 1: I said, it's time to put on Okay Lou. And

1346
01:05:17,640 --> 01:05:19,680
Speaker 1: guess what. It was hitting harder than it's hit ever

1347
01:05:19,760 --> 01:05:21,760
Speaker 1: before in my whole life. I already liked it, but

1348
01:05:21,800 --> 01:05:24,360
Speaker 1: it's time. I was like, damn the subways, like I'm underwater,

1349
01:05:24,520 --> 01:05:28,120
Speaker 1: like I was in heaven. I felt cool. I felt like,

1350
01:05:28,680 --> 01:05:31,440
Speaker 1: you know, this used to be my life, and you

1351
01:05:31,440 --> 01:05:33,600
Speaker 1: know I one day hope to be cool again. But

1352
01:05:33,720 --> 01:05:36,320
Speaker 1: that is neither here nor there. But it is on

1353
01:05:36,400 --> 01:05:38,720
Speaker 1: the subway listening to Okay Lou, New York City. I

1354
01:05:38,760 --> 01:05:40,160
Speaker 1: love you, xoxo Sam.

1355
01:05:40,240 --> 01:05:44,280
Speaker 2: Who wait, I used my version of this so my

1356
01:05:44,600 --> 01:05:48,120
Speaker 2: dad's favorite musical artist when I was growing up with Shade. Now,

1357
01:05:48,120 --> 01:05:53,040
Speaker 2: Shade famously is like sexy music, and I think I

1358
01:05:53,040 --> 01:05:57,320
Speaker 2: will finally be liberated when I can recontextualize Shade as

1359
01:05:57,360 --> 01:05:59,680
Speaker 2: something sexy rather than something that reminds me of my father.

1360
01:06:00,120 --> 01:06:02,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I find myself like and I can't

1361
01:06:02,400 --> 01:06:04,320
Speaker 1: like I I it's You'll get there.

1362
01:06:04,600 --> 01:06:06,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, just need new context. I need you, I need

1363
01:06:07,080 --> 01:06:10,520
Speaker 2: I need smoking, I need honestly discordgooning for.

1364
01:06:12,080 --> 01:06:16,439
Speaker 1: The headphones. Yeah, I've I'm finding myself listening to him

1365
01:06:16,600 --> 01:06:19,600
Speaker 1: constantly in LA because I'm like, well, this is makes sense.

1366
01:06:19,400 --> 01:06:21,280
Speaker 3: That does make sense. And now yeah, it's like a

1367
01:06:21,520 --> 01:06:22,840
Speaker 3: sunny yeah.

1368
01:06:22,920 --> 01:06:24,439
Speaker 1: And today I was like should I put on hein?

1369
01:06:24,520 --> 01:06:27,600
Speaker 1: And I was like, why not? It's cold? It doesn't

1370
01:06:27,600 --> 01:06:28,280
Speaker 1: make any sense.

1371
01:06:28,720 --> 01:06:30,680
Speaker 2: Okay, what's up?

1372
01:06:30,720 --> 01:06:31,240
Speaker 1: Fashionist?

1373
01:06:31,280 --> 01:06:32,600
Speaker 2: Does I want to give a shout out to the

1374
01:06:33,760 --> 01:06:37,440
Speaker 2: brand Marrow, the shoe brand Marrow. It is so difficult

1375
01:06:37,480 --> 01:06:40,560
Speaker 2: right now to shop for shoes because of the sort

1376
01:06:40,600 --> 01:06:45,920
Speaker 2: of constant TikTok semi ironic reappropriation of every floating signifier

1377
01:06:45,960 --> 01:06:48,680
Speaker 2: that constantly exists. It is impossible to know whether it's

1378
01:06:48,680 --> 01:06:51,600
Speaker 2: something you are wearing signifies that you are basic, that

1379
01:06:51,640 --> 01:06:53,280
Speaker 2: you are young, that you are old, that you're old

1380
01:06:53,320 --> 01:06:55,520
Speaker 2: trying to be young, that you are trying to be

1381
01:06:55,600 --> 01:06:59,480
Speaker 2: hype beastie. And there is something about Marrow brand shoes

1382
01:06:59,520 --> 01:07:02,400
Speaker 2: that all most transcends that I think it has been

1383
01:07:02,400 --> 01:07:05,600
Speaker 2: appropriated and reappropriated so many times that you can they

1384
01:07:05,600 --> 01:07:08,000
Speaker 2: can basically be whatever you want them to be, and

1385
01:07:08,040 --> 01:07:10,040
Speaker 2: you sort of can get away with wearing them and

1386
01:07:10,080 --> 01:07:12,520
Speaker 2: they just like accommodate you the rest of your style,

1387
01:07:12,840 --> 01:07:15,200
Speaker 2: and so I am this is the Meryl pledge. I

1388
01:07:15,200 --> 01:07:18,439
Speaker 2: am buying a pair of Marraals in the next calendar month,

1389
01:07:18,480 --> 01:07:20,880
Speaker 2: and that's maybe my new look. It's maybe my Kamala blazer,

1390
01:07:20,960 --> 01:07:23,480
Speaker 2: because I'm gonna wear Marrals and I just want to

1391
01:07:23,480 --> 01:07:26,200
Speaker 2: think them for everything they've contributed to both straight, queer,

1392
01:07:26,880 --> 01:07:31,440
Speaker 2: gay all cultures because they have something wearing them, was

1393
01:07:31,440 --> 01:07:34,000
Speaker 2: wearing them last night, and so shout out to Meryl.

1394
01:07:34,040 --> 01:07:36,160
Speaker 2: I don't know if they are an ethical company, but

1395
01:07:36,320 --> 01:07:43,520
Speaker 2: I will do my research out for this. Yeah, that's

1396
01:07:43,560 --> 01:07:48,640
Speaker 2: beautiful Tory. Whenever you're ready, I want to shout out to.

1397
01:07:50,120 --> 01:07:57,600
Speaker 3: Nautical decorations. Yes, I was in a what I went

1398
01:07:57,680 --> 01:08:00,760
Speaker 3: with a bunch of gay people to a restaurant that

1399
01:08:00,920 --> 01:08:03,920
Speaker 3: was I was. I was staring at it the whole time.

1400
01:08:03,920 --> 01:08:06,000
Speaker 3: I was like, what is this restaurant? Why does it

1401
01:08:06,120 --> 01:08:08,960
Speaker 3: look this way? Like I couldn't name it because I

1402
01:08:09,040 --> 01:08:11,040
Speaker 3: was with gay people, so it didn't occur to me

1403
01:08:11,520 --> 01:08:14,560
Speaker 3: that I could be in a nautical restaurant. Like they

1404
01:08:14,600 --> 01:08:18,080
Speaker 3: were throwing off what the restaurant was. And then finally

1405
01:08:18,640 --> 01:08:21,600
Speaker 3: I went to the to the bathroom by myself, and

1406
01:08:21,640 --> 01:08:24,280
Speaker 3: I was in the bathroom and there was like rope

1407
01:08:24,479 --> 01:08:27,800
Speaker 3: trim on like a like everything was navy blue and white,

1408
01:08:27,960 --> 01:08:30,000
Speaker 3: you know, And I was like, oh, maybe's chic. I

1409
01:08:30,040 --> 01:08:33,040
Speaker 3: don't know. And then and then I don't know, chic

1410
01:08:33,160 --> 01:08:37,120
Speaker 3: is oftentimes anyway. I started like because this maybe, but

1411
01:08:37,200 --> 01:08:40,200
Speaker 3: it's kind of frenchy, you know, like somebody that could

1412
01:08:40,240 --> 01:08:41,720
Speaker 3: be So yeah, I was. But it was in the

1413
01:08:41,720 --> 01:08:45,040
Speaker 3: bathroom like it was like there's rope trim picture of

1414
01:08:45,080 --> 01:08:47,760
Speaker 3: a sailboat, and all of a sudden, I was like,

1415
01:08:48,280 --> 01:08:50,040
Speaker 3: I was like probably in the bathkeob. I was like

1416
01:08:50,080 --> 01:08:52,360
Speaker 3: it's a yacht club, you know, like alone. But I

1417
01:08:52,400 --> 01:08:54,439
Speaker 3: was like I realized, like that's what this theme was,

1418
01:08:54,920 --> 01:08:59,600
Speaker 3: and and and the whole lunch was just reaching. It

1419
01:08:59,840 --> 01:09:02,439
Speaker 3: just I was like, this is the feel of this

1420
01:09:02,560 --> 01:09:05,479
Speaker 3: lunch that I thought was like in a in a

1421
01:09:05,840 --> 01:09:09,639
Speaker 3: like a cool New York restaurant. No, I've just been

1422
01:09:09,760 --> 01:09:13,720
Speaker 3: dining at the yacht club and everything was different. And

1423
01:09:13,760 --> 01:09:17,000
Speaker 3: it was because I became aware of the nautical motif.

1424
01:09:17,520 --> 01:09:19,360
Speaker 1: Wow, that is so powerful.

1425
01:09:19,439 --> 01:09:22,599
Speaker 2: Do you think nautical? I love nauticle will come back

1426
01:09:22,760 --> 01:09:26,560
Speaker 2: like yes, I like in the way that people fetishize

1427
01:09:27,439 --> 01:09:30,160
Speaker 2: cowboy work, where all that stuff like will we get

1428
01:09:30,160 --> 01:09:31,320
Speaker 2: to a sailor.

1429
01:09:31,000 --> 01:09:34,040
Speaker 1: Moment, nautical is incoming. I also think we all have

1430
01:09:34,120 --> 01:09:37,080
Speaker 1: this thing where our parents' bathrooms had like a seashore

1431
01:09:37,160 --> 01:09:40,880
Speaker 1: theme and it's like hack. But now we're like almost

1432
01:09:40,880 --> 01:09:43,240
Speaker 1: at a place where we're like, well, I'm my parents' age,

1433
01:09:43,320 --> 01:09:46,639
Speaker 1: like maybe I want to find my way into the sea.

1434
01:09:46,720 --> 01:09:49,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is a time for some shells around the mirror.

1435
01:09:49,360 --> 01:09:51,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there's something where you're like, well, I'll

1436
01:09:51,880 --> 01:09:54,360
Speaker 1: do it, but it'll be like a semi ironic and

1437
01:09:54,360 --> 01:09:55,360
Speaker 1: I'll find a way to play with it.

1438
01:09:55,840 --> 01:09:58,120
Speaker 3: The thing is it immediately becomes like that, that just

1439
01:09:58,160 --> 01:10:03,519
Speaker 3: becomes like your thing. Like I like in Florida. When

1440
01:10:03,520 --> 01:10:05,600
Speaker 3: I'm in Florida, I am like excited to see like

1441
01:10:05,680 --> 01:10:08,080
Speaker 3: manate themed totally.

1442
01:10:09,200 --> 01:10:12,320
Speaker 2: Like not in a sort of alligators.

1443
01:10:12,600 --> 01:10:12,800
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1444
01:10:12,840 --> 01:10:15,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm in Maine. When I see those damn boois everywhere,

1445
01:10:15,520 --> 01:10:16,920
Speaker 1: I'm like perfect.

1446
01:10:16,680 --> 01:10:17,920
Speaker 3: You're like, yeah, I'm in Maine.

1447
01:10:18,080 --> 01:10:21,600
Speaker 1: I'm like, in fact, yeah, all I want is a

1448
01:10:21,640 --> 01:10:25,599
Speaker 1: damn Maine bowie toy. This has been an absolute delight.

1449
01:10:25,680 --> 01:10:28,680
Speaker 3: It's been a pleasure for me so much for doing what.

1450
01:10:28,760 --> 01:10:29,400
Speaker 1: You're doing it.

1451
01:10:30,760 --> 01:10:34,479
Speaker 2: Please purchase the book stag Dance on Bookshop Dot Organ

1452
01:10:34,520 --> 01:10:38,639
Speaker 2: not Amazon, that's right, I said it. Wow, political statement,

1453
01:10:38,680 --> 01:10:41,080
Speaker 2: making a political statement or Amazon, you know or whatever.

1454
01:10:43,280 --> 01:10:48,040
Speaker 2: I have no moral backbone. And if you're in the UK,

1455
01:10:49,320 --> 01:10:52,280
Speaker 2: you know, look look where you're gonna be, you're gonna be.

1456
01:10:53,000 --> 01:10:56,479
Speaker 3: It's gonna be like eight stops in the UK and

1457
01:10:56,520 --> 01:10:59,200
Speaker 3: then including West Kirby. I don't know what that that

1458
01:10:59,360 --> 01:11:02,080
Speaker 3: is the probably the most obscure, but apparently it's a

1459
01:11:02,160 --> 01:11:06,280
Speaker 3: nice place outside of Liverpool. I'm doing a bend in

1460
01:11:06,360 --> 01:11:09,680
Speaker 3: Brighton with Sean Fay who probably your listeners know of

1461
01:11:09,800 --> 01:11:15,400
Speaker 3: Sean Fay. And then I'm doing also Sydney Literary Festival,

1462
01:11:15,720 --> 01:11:19,920
Speaker 3: Auckland Literary Festival and melbournelet Littery Fsival.

1463
01:11:19,960 --> 01:11:21,200
Speaker 2: So I'm doing We actually do have a lot of

1464
01:11:21,200 --> 01:11:26,160
Speaker 2: Australian listeners, that's true. Australians love alt Gate comedy.

1465
01:11:26,240 --> 01:11:27,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, I actually kind of do.

1466
01:11:27,720 --> 01:11:31,599
Speaker 3: Wow, this is perfect because I've been sort of remiss

1467
01:11:31,640 --> 01:11:32,639
Speaker 3: and promoting those things.

1468
01:11:32,640 --> 01:11:36,200
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, if you're an Australian listener, please please look

1469
01:11:36,240 --> 01:11:36,559
Speaker 2: that up.

1470
01:11:36,680 --> 01:11:37,280
Speaker 3: I'll be there.

1471
01:11:38,120 --> 01:11:44,200
Speaker 1: Amazing. Wow. Well bye podcast and now for our visual learners.

1472
01:11:44,280 --> 01:11:47,479
Speaker 2: You can watch full video episodes on our YouTube channel and.

1473
01:11:47,439 --> 01:11:50,439
Speaker 1: Subscribe to our Patreon for two extra episodes a month.

1474
01:11:50,640 --> 01:11:53,080
Speaker 2: At Patreon dot com. Slash Stradio Lab.

1475
01:11:53,520 --> 01:11:55,800
Speaker 1: Stradio Lab is a production by Will Ferrell's Big Money

1476
01:11:55,840 --> 01:11:57,600
Speaker 1: Players Network and iHeart Podcasts.

1477
01:11:57,720 --> 01:12:00,800
Speaker 2: Created and hosted by Me, George Saveris and Sam Taggart.

1478
01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:04,920
Speaker 1: Executive produced by Jennet Cagel, co produced by Becca Ramos, edited.

1479
01:12:04,640 --> 01:12:07,080
Speaker 2: By Laurence Stump, and mixed and mastered by Doug Bain.

1480
01:12:07,560 --> 01:12:10,160
Speaker 1: Artwork by Michael Failes and Matt Grubb. Theme music by

1481
01:12:10,160 --> 01:12:10,639
Speaker 1: Ben Kling