WEBVTT - Midnight at the Live Fire Exercise

0:00:11.520 --> 0:00:14.600
<v Speaker 1>And we returned to our American stories, and up next

0:00:14.640 --> 0:00:18.160
<v Speaker 1>to story from one of our regular contributors, Richard Munyez.

0:00:18.760 --> 0:00:21.599
<v Speaker 1>Rich is a listener out in Colorado and his story

0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:26.600
<v Speaker 1>today is entitled Midnight at the Live Fire Exercise. Here's

0:00:26.680 --> 0:00:28.080
<v Speaker 1>Rich with the story.

0:00:29.160 --> 0:00:32.800
<v Speaker 2>ADC. This is World News Tonight with Peter Jenning.

0:00:32.840 --> 0:00:33.240
<v Speaker 1>Good Evening.

0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:36.000
<v Speaker 2>The deadline has come and gone. The Iraqis are living

0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:38.440
<v Speaker 2>on what President Bush calls borrowed time. It is no

0:00:38.520 --> 0:00:44.760
<v Speaker 2>longer whether the war will start. About when in nineteen

0:00:44.800 --> 0:00:47.760
<v Speaker 2>ninety one we had a little thing called the Gulf War,

0:00:48.159 --> 0:00:51.479
<v Speaker 2>and in that we sent armored divisions and infantry divisions

0:00:51.520 --> 0:00:53.680
<v Speaker 2>into Iraq, and I'll be honest with you, we clean

0:00:53.720 --> 0:00:54.880
<v Speaker 2>their clock. I mean it looked a little bit like

0:00:54.960 --> 0:00:57.760
<v Speaker 2>War of the World's only we were the martians. Now,

0:00:57.800 --> 0:00:59.880
<v Speaker 2>one of the things that happened here is we definitely

0:00:59.880 --> 0:01:02.520
<v Speaker 2>had the superior tank, I mean the in one tank,

0:01:02.840 --> 0:01:05.920
<v Speaker 2>fantastic piece of hardware. The other thing we had going

0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:08.479
<v Speaker 2>for is we had better training. Now, granted they had

0:01:08.520 --> 0:01:11.679
<v Speaker 2>some actual combat experience, but we had trained to a

0:01:11.760 --> 0:01:14.640
<v Speaker 2>razor's edge. Where did we do this training At a little

0:01:14.640 --> 0:01:18.319
<v Speaker 2>place called National Training Center at Fort Irwin, California, out

0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:24.000
<v Speaker 2>in the middle of nowhere in the Mohave Desert. Now,

0:01:24.000 --> 0:01:25.840
<v Speaker 2>the first time I ever went out there, it was

0:01:25.880 --> 0:01:29.760
<v Speaker 2>about nineteen eighty eight. What had happened was, see, I

0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:33.240
<v Speaker 2>was working Military police investigations time. Now that's exactly what

0:01:33.280 --> 0:01:35.640
<v Speaker 2>it sounds like I was doing. I was a detective,

0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:37.680
<v Speaker 2>you know. I put on a suit, put on a tie,

0:01:37.760 --> 0:01:41.000
<v Speaker 2>and I went out there and I played detective. Well,

0:01:41.040 --> 0:01:44.000
<v Speaker 2>in the FM manuals, there's always need for an MPI

0:01:44.080 --> 0:01:47.840
<v Speaker 2>investigator to go out with division. Well, no one ever had,

0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:49.720
<v Speaker 2>so it's kind of a little bit of a pioneer here.

0:01:49.920 --> 0:01:52.400
<v Speaker 2>This is the first time an MPI investigator was going

0:01:52.440 --> 0:01:56.040
<v Speaker 2>to go out with division out to the National Training Center.

0:01:56.560 --> 0:01:59.400
<v Speaker 2>Now here's the problem. No one knew exactly what my

0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:03.240
<v Speaker 2>job was, so my mission kind of wound up being

0:02:03.360 --> 0:02:07.200
<v Speaker 2>a catch off. What I wound up doing was investing

0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:09.839
<v Speaker 2>an awful lot of accidents. And if you want to see

0:02:09.840 --> 0:02:13.560
<v Speaker 2>some horrific accidents, do it where you got high explosive

0:02:13.880 --> 0:02:17.000
<v Speaker 2>rounds going off being shot from some of those fantastic

0:02:17.000 --> 0:02:19.960
<v Speaker 2>equipment in the world, and see what happens. Add to

0:02:20.000 --> 0:02:22.320
<v Speaker 2>that unfamiliar terrain, things like that and I mean it's

0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:26.480
<v Speaker 2>recipe for getting people killed. This is a story about

0:02:26.800 --> 0:02:28.799
<v Speaker 2>a couple of soldiers that managed to dodge the bullet.

0:02:29.240 --> 0:02:35.079
<v Speaker 2>And I'll be honest with you, they came very very close. Okay. Now,

0:02:35.080 --> 0:02:37.399
<v Speaker 2>what they did with me was I wound up having

0:02:37.440 --> 0:02:40.480
<v Speaker 2>to stay behind at the Provost Marshall's office and I

0:02:40.520 --> 0:02:43.119
<v Speaker 2>got to sleep in a jail celle for the twenty

0:02:43.160 --> 0:02:45.960
<v Speaker 2>nine days were deployed. Well, one night I'm in there,

0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:48.960
<v Speaker 2>I'm sound asleep, and the dispatcher comes back and wakes

0:02:49.000 --> 0:02:52.799
<v Speaker 2>me up and says, Rich, there's been a terrible accident

0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:58.560
<v Speaker 2>out on one of the ranges. What happened A tank

0:02:58.720 --> 0:03:01.560
<v Speaker 2>fired up in APC. My first one instance is, oh

0:03:01.600 --> 0:03:06.400
<v Speaker 2>my god, this is not gonna be pretty. So I

0:03:06.440 --> 0:03:08.560
<v Speaker 2>got up and got dressed and I walked over to

0:03:09.240 --> 0:03:13.359
<v Speaker 2>the officer's baq, that's where the division safety officers were staying,

0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:15.520
<v Speaker 2>and I said, guys, we've had a bad accident on

0:03:15.560 --> 0:03:17.360
<v Speaker 2>the range. We've had a n M one fire up

0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:19.480
<v Speaker 2>in APC. What else do you know? That's all I

0:03:19.520 --> 0:03:22.079
<v Speaker 2>know right now. We said, we loaded up into their

0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:26.040
<v Speaker 2>four by four and we started out and they made

0:03:26.040 --> 0:03:27.639
<v Speaker 2>a few phone calls like that so we knew where

0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:29.960
<v Speaker 2>we were going. And I remember we're driving through and

0:03:30.000 --> 0:03:32.520
<v Speaker 2>it's pitch black outside. I mean, you have not seen

0:03:32.560 --> 0:03:34.120
<v Speaker 2>pitch black, and so you're in the middle of the

0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:36.920
<v Speaker 2>Mahave Desert. So we're driving along and I wound up

0:03:36.960 --> 0:03:39.960
<v Speaker 2>falling asleep, and person I woke up and we're stopping

0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:42.280
<v Speaker 2>and we're stopping at what looks like a trailerhouse and

0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:45.640
<v Speaker 2>still the pitch dark outside. And when the officers got

0:03:45.680 --> 0:03:47.640
<v Speaker 2>out and he went in, he comes out and he's

0:03:47.680 --> 0:03:51.400
<v Speaker 2>got a cassette tape and he said, you guys have

0:03:51.520 --> 0:03:55.040
<v Speaker 2>got to hear this. They plugged it in and you

0:03:55.080 --> 0:03:56.720
<v Speaker 2>hear them talking and stuff like that, and this is

0:03:56.800 --> 0:04:00.040
<v Speaker 2>routine stuff. You're hearing what we call a fist. A

0:04:00.160 --> 0:04:03.360
<v Speaker 2>FIST is a fire support vehicle. This calls in targets.

0:04:03.840 --> 0:04:06.880
<v Speaker 2>In this case, this was an set up on a

0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:09.080
<v Speaker 2>little hill there that had a small crew and they

0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:14.720
<v Speaker 2>were calling in targets and all of a sudden, you

0:04:14.840 --> 0:04:19.160
<v Speaker 2>hear a scream cease fire, Cease fire, My god, my god,

0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:21.520
<v Speaker 2>were hits cease fire? And you hear other people screaming,

0:04:21.600 --> 0:04:24.360
<v Speaker 2>see you know, cease fire, sees fire, cease fire, shut

0:04:24.400 --> 0:04:30.680
<v Speaker 2>it down, Shut it down then it goes dead. By

0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:33.200
<v Speaker 2>the time we got out to where this accident had occurred,

0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:37.200
<v Speaker 2>the sun had already come up. D M one that

0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:40.440
<v Speaker 2>was responsible for firing doing the firing is still sitting there,

0:04:40.920 --> 0:04:44.160
<v Speaker 2>setting over on a heel, maybe about five hundred yards away.

0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:46.560
<v Speaker 2>Is the fist. Now, the first thing we got to

0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:49.440
<v Speaker 2>determine is what happened here. And we're talking to a

0:04:49.480 --> 0:04:51.400
<v Speaker 2>major who was in charge of all this, and he's

0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:54.760
<v Speaker 2>telling us what had happened was they were doing a

0:04:54.800 --> 0:04:57.800
<v Speaker 2>live fire. Now, the way they did this was this

0:04:57.880 --> 0:05:01.480
<v Speaker 2>is a response to an attack or simulated attack by

0:05:01.600 --> 0:05:05.320
<v Speaker 2>enemy armor. The way they would handle this is one

0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:08.680
<v Speaker 2>tank would roll up and it would fire, it'd roll

0:05:08.800 --> 0:05:11.159
<v Speaker 2>back to reload. Another one would roll up, fire, and

0:05:11.200 --> 0:05:14.000
<v Speaker 2>they're just alternating back and forth. Only this is you know,

0:05:14.040 --> 0:05:18.279
<v Speaker 2>dozens of tanks doing this, and they had these range

0:05:18.440 --> 0:05:22.440
<v Speaker 2>safety stakes, big long posts pounded into the ground. They

0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:25.280
<v Speaker 2>do this for safety reasons. Well, I get out and

0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:26.800
<v Speaker 2>I'm looking at the tank there and the first thing

0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:29.880
<v Speaker 2>I noticed is that there is a red paint transfer

0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:33.320
<v Speaker 2>on the gun turb and became very close was happening here.

0:05:33.480 --> 0:05:37.760
<v Speaker 2>Every time the tank moved back, the gun tube was

0:05:37.880 --> 0:05:42.400
<v Speaker 2>rubbing up against the gun steak safety stake, and they're filled.

0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:44.440
<v Speaker 2>The fire was forgot to getting wider and wider and wider.

0:05:44.440 --> 0:05:45.880
<v Speaker 2>Now I wonder, I check some of the other stakes

0:05:45.880 --> 0:05:49.599
<v Speaker 2>and they were in very, very firm, but not this one.

0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:51.000
<v Speaker 2>This one was loose. I mean, I can said them

0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:53.159
<v Speaker 2>and shake it with my hand. Like I said, it's filled.

0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:56.560
<v Speaker 2>The fires getting progressively wider and wider. Well, eventually what

0:05:56.680 --> 0:05:58.640
<v Speaker 2>happened is that when they roll up, they got maybe

0:05:58.640 --> 0:06:01.640
<v Speaker 2>two to three seconds to acquire a target and fire. Well,

0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:03.440
<v Speaker 2>they get up there, guess what's in the filled of fire?

0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:10.119
<v Speaker 2>Now the fist they fired at it. Now, the weapon

0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:12.080
<v Speaker 2>they used was what we call a sable round. Now,

0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:14.640
<v Speaker 2>sable rounds kind of an interesting weapon. When this lambs

0:06:14.680 --> 0:06:18.920
<v Speaker 2>into a target, whatever the missile's made of, the shells

0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:22.240
<v Speaker 2>made of vaporize is almost instantly the needle, which looks

0:06:22.240 --> 0:06:24.840
<v Speaker 2>a little bit like a cone, melts to the armor

0:06:24.880 --> 0:06:27.839
<v Speaker 2>of whatever it hit and then goes inside. I know

0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:29.680
<v Speaker 2>to go for I saw tanks that had been hit

0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:33.080
<v Speaker 2>by sable rounds on the outside it they don't too bad.

0:06:34.560 --> 0:06:37.440
<v Speaker 2>Look down the hatch, that's what that hit this tank

0:06:37.520 --> 0:06:40.159
<v Speaker 2>with a little APC and the APC is I mean,

0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:43.960
<v Speaker 2>it's nothing like a tank. It's a very lightly armored vehicle.

0:06:44.600 --> 0:06:45.919
<v Speaker 2>So we went through all that. You know, we know

0:06:45.960 --> 0:06:47.920
<v Speaker 2>what's going on here now. Now we went over and

0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:50.640
<v Speaker 2>checked out the APC. It surprised me at the amount

0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:53.159
<v Speaker 2>of damage to it. The round had come in low

0:06:53.680 --> 0:06:56.160
<v Speaker 2>by that what I mean, went in between the tracks

0:06:56.240 --> 0:06:59.160
<v Speaker 2>and into the engine compartment down underneath. If it had

0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:01.560
<v Speaker 2>hit the ap see square on, there have been no

0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:05.400
<v Speaker 2>survivors on this thing. I mean they were just boom

0:07:05.640 --> 0:07:08.160
<v Speaker 2>as it was. The entire top of the APC itself

0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:12.000
<v Speaker 2>was melted off, and there was a machine gun, an

0:07:12.040 --> 0:07:14.640
<v Speaker 2>M six machine gun sitting on the machine gun mount.

0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:17.360
<v Speaker 2>This thing was actually melted and it was both down

0:07:17.360 --> 0:07:22.400
<v Speaker 2>in half. Okay, Now I had to go back back

0:07:22.440 --> 0:07:24.600
<v Speaker 2>to the base, and we kind of have a division

0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:27.840
<v Speaker 2>of labor. Now, what the safety officer would do they

0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:29.680
<v Speaker 2>would go talk to the crew and the commanders and

0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:32.000
<v Speaker 2>everybody else that was associated with this. I would go

0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:35.040
<v Speaker 2>to the hospital and talk to the crew of the APC.

0:07:35.920 --> 0:07:38.880
<v Speaker 2>And this is where I got the rest of the story. Now,

0:07:38.880 --> 0:07:40.120
<v Speaker 2>when I went in there and I told them what

0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:42.840
<v Speaker 2>I was there for, they were nice enough to put

0:07:42.840 --> 0:07:44.880
<v Speaker 2>the crew in the entire in the same room. And

0:07:44.960 --> 0:07:47.880
<v Speaker 2>these guys were messed up. We had a young lieutenant

0:07:47.920 --> 0:07:50.880
<v Speaker 2>that was in charge of it, the sergeant E six uh,

0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:53.520
<v Speaker 2>and a couple of ems. This is the story I

0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:56.640
<v Speaker 2>got here. They are, they're doing their thing, they're calling it,

0:07:56.760 --> 0:07:59.240
<v Speaker 2>they're calling in their fields of fire and st all

0:07:59.240 --> 0:08:02.280
<v Speaker 2>like that. And then the round hit. Lieutenant told me

0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:05.800
<v Speaker 2>when it hit, I mean it actually rocked the APC

0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:08.480
<v Speaker 2>and everything in. Everything in the tank almost seemed to

0:08:08.520 --> 0:08:12.720
<v Speaker 2>catch fire instantly. And he's screaming, you know over the radio,

0:08:12.800 --> 0:08:15.280
<v Speaker 2>you know, cease fire, sees fire, My god, my god,

0:08:15.360 --> 0:08:18.640
<v Speaker 2>were hit, cease fire, And he's trying to get everybody

0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:21.760
<v Speaker 2>out of there. He's getting his EM's out there, and

0:08:21.760 --> 0:08:23.360
<v Speaker 2>they're probably out of this burning thing and all saen.

0:08:23.400 --> 0:08:26.960
<v Speaker 2>He looks around and realizes he's missing a man. He

0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:29.760
<v Speaker 2>didn't know where his sergeant was. He goes back into

0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:33.480
<v Speaker 2>this burning tank trying to find his sergeant. Okay, here's

0:08:33.480 --> 0:08:36.960
<v Speaker 2>what had happened a few moments before the round hit.

0:08:37.559 --> 0:08:40.200
<v Speaker 2>These guys from what we call MOP level four. That

0:08:40.320 --> 0:08:42.800
<v Speaker 2>means you're in a chemical environment. You got protecting mask

0:08:42.880 --> 0:08:45.680
<v Speaker 2>on everything else, well. A couple of minutes for the

0:08:45.720 --> 0:08:47.640
<v Speaker 2>round hit. They were told to stand down from mop

0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:49.360
<v Speaker 2>level four, which you mean to take off your mask,

0:08:49.600 --> 0:08:52.600
<v Speaker 2>so they took him the mass off. The sergeant had

0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:54.920
<v Speaker 2>his mask in his hand and was folding up to

0:08:54.920 --> 0:08:57.439
<v Speaker 2>put it away in his carrier when the round hit.

0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:00.440
<v Speaker 2>He said, the mask caught fire instantly. So here he is.

0:09:00.480 --> 0:09:03.520
<v Speaker 2>He's on fire. What was he do? He panics, He

0:09:03.600 --> 0:09:05.920
<v Speaker 2>jumps out of the tank, starts running down the hill

0:09:06.040 --> 0:09:10.120
<v Speaker 2>before he remember to stop tucking roll. Lieutenant didn't know this.

0:09:10.520 --> 0:09:13.079
<v Speaker 2>He went back into the tank, looked for the man

0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:15.400
<v Speaker 2>for the heat and smoke fire forced him out of there.

0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:19.679
<v Speaker 2>It's a miracle from God. These guys even managed to survive.

0:09:22.120 --> 0:09:24.160
<v Speaker 2>These are the kind of accidents you see happen out

0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:27.000
<v Speaker 2>there sometimes. I mean, this is terrible. I don't know

0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:30.320
<v Speaker 2>what happened these men. I'm pretty sure the lieutenant and

0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:33.719
<v Speaker 2>possibly the NCO were discharged because they're injuries, so they're

0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:37.000
<v Speaker 2>probably have to clicking a pension today. Ogus, that's too bad,

0:09:37.040 --> 0:09:40.000
<v Speaker 2>because Lt. Was an officer was worth.

0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:45.040
<v Speaker 1>Something and a great job. Is always to Monty Montgomery

0:09:45.080 --> 0:09:47.720
<v Speaker 1>for his work on the piece and his special thanks

0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:50.839
<v Speaker 1>again to Richard Muniez, who was a regular contributor here

0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:54.760
<v Speaker 1>on Our American Stories, and his story, well, it took

0:09:54.760 --> 0:09:57.200
<v Speaker 1>place in the Mohave Desert. As he put it, it

0:09:57.240 --> 0:10:00.599
<v Speaker 1>was a miracle from God that these guys somehow survived.

0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:04.679
<v Speaker 1>They were discharged on account of their injuries and are

0:10:04.720 --> 0:10:09.120
<v Speaker 1>collecting pensions. And it's a fascinating look at training, which

0:10:09.480 --> 0:10:12.720
<v Speaker 1>has its own dangers. And as we were talking after

0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:17.239
<v Speaker 1>the piece, a lot less actual death and military exercises

0:10:17.280 --> 0:10:21.720
<v Speaker 1>thanks to lasers and more sophisticated approaches to simulation, but

0:10:21.880 --> 0:10:25.240
<v Speaker 1>still some of our men and women in uniform die training.

0:10:25.640 --> 0:10:29.800
<v Speaker 1>It happens, particularly in aviation exercises. Richard Mune has his

0:10:29.920 --> 0:10:34.400
<v Speaker 1>story Midnight at the Live Fire Exercise here on Our

0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:46.679
<v Speaker 1>American Story