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Speaker 1: Hello Sunshine.

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Speaker 2: Hey, Bessie's Today on the bright Side, we are with

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Speaker 2: US Ambassador Michelle Kwan.

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Speaker 3: Yep, you heard that right.

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Speaker 2: Olympic figure skating icon Michelle Kwan is here to talk

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Speaker 2: about how she is redefining success as a mother, author

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Speaker 2: and diplomat in her second act. You don't want to

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Speaker 2: miss this. It's Tuesday, May twenty. First, I'm Simone.

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Speaker 1: Boyce, I'm Danielle Robe and this is the bright Side

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Speaker 1: from Hello Sunshine. Michelle Kwan is currently the US Ambassador

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Speaker 1: to Belize, and I'm so intrigued by this career shift.

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Speaker 3: Talk about second acts.

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Speaker 2: I mean, she was one of the most decorated figure

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Speaker 2: skaters of our time, and then she's like, you know what,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to take this little taste of diplomacy that

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Speaker 2: I've had as an international athlete, and I'm going to

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Speaker 2: go become a US ambassador. I just love her imaginative living,

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Speaker 2: the way that she truly sees no limits for herself.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it actually is not such a shock to

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Speaker 1: me that this is where she went, because I remember

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Speaker 1: looking at Michelle Kwan as a very little girl, thinking

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Speaker 1: to myself that she always stood for more than just

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Speaker 1: figure skating and being an Olympic figure skating was enough.

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Speaker 1: But she just always had so much heart and soul

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Speaker 1: and so much pride for America. And I can't wait

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Speaker 1: to talk to her about it.

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Speaker 3: It really does.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you could tell that she was just built

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Speaker 2: different from such a young age, the way that she

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Speaker 2: handled the pressure on that global stage, the way that

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Speaker 2: she just had so much grace and poise and confidence.

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Speaker 2: I was always blown away by her. You know, she

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Speaker 2: actually inspired me to pursue a very short lived career

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Speaker 2: in figure skating.

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Speaker 3: What do you mean.

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Speaker 2: I decided to enroll in a summer camp when I

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Speaker 2: was living in Miami, and it was a figure skating camp,

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Speaker 2: and we learned how to do a couple of tiny

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Speaker 2: little jumps. And I still have this picture that I

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Speaker 2: look back at from time to time of me wearing

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Speaker 2: this extremely tight white leotard out on the ice. I

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Speaker 2: have this like determination in my eyes that I was

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Speaker 2: channeling from Michelle Kwan herself. And I have this plastic

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Speaker 2: gold medal around my neck. But I just think about

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Speaker 2: the generations of women that she inspired with her sport.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you also were a figure skater too.

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Speaker 2: Bestie's Danielle has been downplaying her figure skating skills and

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Speaker 2: we're going to get to the bottom of it right now.

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Speaker 1: Well before we do, I need that photo. I think

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Speaker 1: you need to post it on Instagram for everybody to

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Speaker 1: that little simone skating photo. But no, she inspired me too.

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Speaker 1: I remember Michelle Kwan and Tara Lepinsky were my idols.

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Speaker 4: I'll never forget.

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Speaker 1: I wore this burgundy bedazzled outfit and I wanted to

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Speaker 1: look like Michelle Kwan, and I was so competitive. I

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Speaker 1: really wanted to be the best. I was doing like

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Speaker 1: shoot the ducks and cartwheels all over the ice, and

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Speaker 1: that is so impressive.

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Speaker 2: You were doing freaking cart wheels on the ice. How

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Speaker 2: long did you skate for?

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Speaker 1: I wanted to do gymnastics on the ice. Basically I

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Speaker 1: did it for like ten years. I loved it. I

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Speaker 1: was I never felt freeer. I know that sounds so weird,

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Speaker 1: but I've never felt freer than when I was skating.

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Speaker 2: It's the best. What is the most impressive trick that

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Speaker 2: you can do on the ice?

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Speaker 1: For sure the cartwheel. I can still do it to

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Speaker 1: this day. Although what every time I'm in like a

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Speaker 1: city like in Chicago, or I'm visiting New York and

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Speaker 1: they have these like public rinks. Yeah, I always want

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Speaker 1: to do it, and I can't because it's so crowded.

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Speaker 1: I'm scared someone's going to skate over my hands.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, you can still do the cartwheel, Danielle,

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Speaker 2: That's wild for sure. I mean, we have the Olympics

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Speaker 2: coming up this summer, right, It's such an exciting time

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Speaker 2: and it has me nostalgic for all those iconic nineties

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Speaker 2: Olympics moments. I mean, I am thinking of Carrie strugg

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Speaker 2: doing a vault on an injured ankle in the ninety

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Speaker 2: six Olympics. No one thought she was going to be

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Speaker 2: able to do it. She does the vault anyways, she

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Speaker 2: clinches the gold for the US team. I mean chills

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Speaker 2: just thinking about it right now. I remember screaming at

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Speaker 2: the top of my lungs, probably crying. It was so emotional.

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Speaker 2: It was so emotional watching that moment. What comes to

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Speaker 2: mind for you.

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Speaker 1: Oh, for sure, the dream team, the nineteen ninety two

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Speaker 1: men's basketball team. And that's because I grew up as

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Speaker 1: a Michael Jordan fan, and it was Michael Jordan Charles

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Speaker 1: Barkley Patrick Ewing, and I just remember Michael Jordan getting

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Speaker 1: off the bus in his beret, thinking that, like, you

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Speaker 1: could not tell me he was not God, Michael Jordan

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Speaker 1: was jumped so high. I was All of my passwords

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Speaker 1: as a kid were Michael Jordan twenty three. So I

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Speaker 1: was so excited to see them in the Olympics. You know,

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Speaker 1: I covered basketball and football for a few years, and

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Speaker 1: when I started, I didn't know much. And I texted

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Speaker 1: one of my best girlfriends from high school who was

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Speaker 1: a huge sports fan, and she.

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Speaker 4: Was like, I can't believe you're there right now.

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Speaker 1: It's so exciting. And I was like, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I'd rather be at the Grammys, I think, And she

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Speaker 1: was like, no, It's the one place where people come

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Speaker 1: together still, everybody who regardless of color, political affiliation, any

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Speaker 1: of it, just comes together to root for a team.

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Speaker 1: It's so special, and I just I hope that the

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Speaker 1: Olympics are like that in Paris this year. I'm holding

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Speaker 1: out hope. I think that we can still all galvanize

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Speaker 1: around something. Okay, do not go anywhere, because after the break,

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Speaker 1: Michelle Kwan is here.

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Speaker 2: We'll be right back, Okay, y'all, We're back with the

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Speaker 2: most decorated figure skater of all time, a two time

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Speaker 2: Olympic medalist, a five time World champion, and a nine time.

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Speaker 1: UN champion, Ambassador Kwan. We are both so excited to

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Speaker 1: have you here. On the bright side, we were figure

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Speaker 1: skaters growing up. Ish yes, Simone says ish.

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Speaker 4: There's no ish.

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Speaker 1: My cartwheel on ice was my largest claim to fame.

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Speaker 2: Ambassad Quon, I'm like literally shaking right now because you're

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Speaker 2: a personal hero of mine, childhood hero. I mean, your grace,

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Speaker 2: your heart on the ice. You just inspired an entire

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Speaker 2: generation of women. And it's such an honor to meet you.

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Speaker 4: So nice to meet you, and both of you look

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Speaker 4: so fabulous.

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Speaker 3: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: You do too with your American flag in the background.

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Speaker 4: I usually have a lapel pen that has both the

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Speaker 4: Belize flag and the US flag. Of course.

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Speaker 1: Well, you're living a fully different life right now than

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Speaker 1: most people know you from. You were obviously an Olympian

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Speaker 1: and now you're an ambassador. It's really exciting.

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Speaker 4: It is very exciting. It is sort of a one

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Speaker 4: to eighty from I guess what folks know me as

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Speaker 4: like competing at the Olympics and the World Championships, and

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Speaker 4: on the ice. And it's funny because when people see

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Speaker 4: me off the ice, so like you look different, you're

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Speaker 4: wearing more clothes.

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Speaker 2: Like.

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Speaker 1: That purple outfit from the Olympics is forever in my mind.

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Speaker 4: Oh really, that was one of my favorite ones.

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Speaker 2: I'm so glad you brought that up because you were

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Speaker 2: really intentional about the outfits that you chose, what kind

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Speaker 2: of thought went into what you wore on the ice.

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Speaker 2: And I know that your mom was really involved in

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Speaker 2: actually helping you make some of those costumes.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, my mom actually from day one, from the very

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Speaker 4: first skating competition, she would actually literally sew every bead

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Speaker 4: and every sequence and you know, glued every crystal on

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Speaker 4: my on my costume because we couldn't afford a costume,

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Speaker 4: you know, we couldn't afford a custom made costume like

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Speaker 4: some of the other skaters could. So she was very

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Speaker 4: hands on. But my number one, of course, being an athlete,

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Speaker 4: was like come for the ability, Like I want something

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Speaker 4: that doesn't give me like scratch marks, because if you

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Speaker 4: have sequence on the side, you can imagine like rotating,

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Speaker 4: you get cut up. And I didn't like anything too

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Speaker 4: high in the neck because I needed to breathe.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 4: Of course, luckily later in my career, I worked with

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Speaker 4: the one and only Verra Wang.

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Speaker 1: Yes, you know, I was watching old interviews of you

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Speaker 1: last night and I was struck by something. At a

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Speaker 1: young age, you were putting yourself out there, taking really

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Speaker 1: big risks day in and day out, and at the

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Speaker 1: same time, there's absolutely no room for your What was

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Speaker 1: your relationship like with perfectionism back then.

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Speaker 4: I think it's something I deal with every single day. Actually,

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Speaker 4: it's sort of ingrained in me to be a perfectionist almost.

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Speaker 4: And in a sport, you have to work on the

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Speaker 4: small things. I always look at a overall performance of

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Speaker 4: a long program. Let's say, you know how many triple

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Speaker 4: jumps you have, you know how many spins you have,

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Speaker 4: You know, the footwork and the spiral sequence and everything,

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Speaker 4: and every little thing counts. And I think in sports

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Speaker 4: there's always a big difference between great skaters and the

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Speaker 4: person standing on top of the podium.

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Speaker 1: Oh, what do you mean.

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Speaker 4: There's a lot of good skaters. There's a lot of

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Speaker 4: people that have the same triple jumps, the same combination jumps,

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Speaker 4: the same it's how you execute it. It's the whole package.

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Speaker 4: It's everything, so you can't overlook the details. It's also

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Speaker 4: your consistency on the ice. How often can you perform

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Speaker 4: at that level? As my father used to say when

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Speaker 4: we were little kids, on the ice, the blade is

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Speaker 4: thin when the ice is slippery, and the risks are extreme,

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Speaker 4: quadruple jumps and triple triple combinations. It's remarkable because yet

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Speaker 4: you need that finesse and you need that grace. And

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Speaker 4: it's that athleticism combined with beauty and grace, which a

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Speaker 4: reason why I fell in love with figure skating in

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Speaker 4: the first place.

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Speaker 2: Well, I learned that your dad used to tell you,

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Speaker 2: and this is kind of harsh, but like, see that

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Speaker 2: skater over there, they're better than you.

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Speaker 3: See that skater over there, they're better than you.

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Speaker 4: Did you talk to my dad?

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Speaker 3: We did. We called it mister Kwan.

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Speaker 2: No, I'm kidding, But his point was, it's not necessarily

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Speaker 2: all about talent. It's about hard work. It's about the

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Speaker 2: heart that you put into it. And for me, when

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Speaker 2: I think about you, Michelle, and like I said, how

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Speaker 2: you inspired me and Danielle and so many other people,

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Speaker 2: it was your touch that set you apart. It was

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Speaker 2: your heart and your flourish out there on the ice.

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Speaker 4: Oh well, thank you. And yes, my father did say that.

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Speaker 4: I remember vividly my dad pointing at certain skaters and

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Speaker 4: being like, look at that triple LUTs or look at

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Speaker 4: that triple toe combination, look at that. These skaters are

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Speaker 4: better and they're stronger than you, and but hard work,

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Speaker 4: hard work, is going to get you to that finish

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Speaker 4: line quicker than any of these skaters. You know. I

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Speaker 4: took that to heart because I realized, yes, everybody could

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Speaker 4: do a triple LUTs, but can they do the triple

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Speaker 4: LUTs with that other six triple jumps in the program

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Speaker 4: plus those spins, plus when the time counts, Let's see,

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Speaker 4: that's the competitor and me where you know, let's see

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Speaker 4: if we can perform when it really counts. It's a

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Speaker 4: lot of pressure for a young person to be under

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Speaker 4: when all eyes are on you and you train your

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Speaker 4: whole life to spend a few minutes on the ice

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Speaker 4: and try to do it. But that's what the challenge

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Speaker 4: and the fun of it is.

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Speaker 1: I I heard you say that you savored all of

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Speaker 1: these moments and you didn't get distracted, you said, because

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of distractions when you're competing, is there

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Speaker 1: a moment that you think about that you would like

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Speaker 1: to relive.

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Speaker 4: I mean, savoring every little thing was so important because

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Speaker 4: as an athlete, you don't know when it's gone. I

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Speaker 4: hit sort of the world stage, if you will, at

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Speaker 4: twelve thirteen years old. My first international competition was at

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Speaker 4: twelve years old. At thirteen, I was the alternate to

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Speaker 4: the Olympic Games. It was my first World championship. At fifteen,

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Speaker 4: I won my first world title. Like I was exposed

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Speaker 4: from the very beginning, but I also knew that an

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Speaker 4: injury or something could sideline me any day, because as

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Speaker 4: we were talking about that risk is there, Like you're

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Speaker 4: doing triple jumps. It might look easy when you land it,

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Speaker 4: but when you fall, it does hurt. You know, I

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Speaker 4: do have even to this day, I have like injuries.

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Speaker 4: But saving was so important. I think I can't take

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Speaker 4: it for granted. And I think that's why I probably

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Speaker 4: had such a long career because I didn't want to

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Speaker 4: stop for one, but another was because I loved what

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Speaker 4: I was doing and I could always find joy and

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Speaker 4: find ways to reinvent myself and to discover new things.

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Speaker 1: That reinvention piece is something I'm so curious about because

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Speaker 1: you were representing the USA and you still are, You're

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Speaker 1: just doing it in a different way. How did you

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Speaker 1: decide to get into diplomacy. Well, even though it looks

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Speaker 1: like I retired from sport and then you know, transition

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Speaker 1: quickly into diplomacy, I have to say it was losing

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Speaker 1: myself in order to find myself. It was my identity

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Speaker 1: since I turned five years old and I started skating.

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Speaker 4: Is everything that I wanted to do. So when I

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Speaker 4: finished at twenty six, it's like, oh my god, Now

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Speaker 4: what what am I supposed to do? And that period

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Speaker 4: was of self discovery and I thought what better way

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Speaker 4: to discover than a very safe space, and that was

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Speaker 4: going to school, going back to college. And then after

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Speaker 4: I graduated from the University of Denver, I said, okay, well,

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Speaker 4: I feel like I still need more learning to to do,

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Speaker 4: and so therefore I ended up going to grad school.

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Speaker 4: And then after grad school, I was appointed as a

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Speaker 4: public Diplomacy envoy by Secretary of Condallize Rice and I

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Speaker 4: had traveled at that moment as a public diplomacy on

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Speaker 4: voy to Russia, Ukraine, Singapore, Argentina, and I discovered my

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Speaker 4: love for diplomacy, and you're absolutely right in terms of

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Speaker 4: you were representing the United States in your skating capacity,

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Speaker 4: So there is this similarity in representation. And I have

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Speaker 4: to say, like being here in Belize, living and working

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Speaker 4: alongside diplomats who serve our country each and every day

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Speaker 4: and make so much sacrifices for the country, it's really

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Speaker 4: truly an honor.

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Speaker 1: What do you feel most proud of in terms of

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Speaker 1: your work as an ambassador.

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Speaker 4: Well, I'm very hands on. I'm the type of person

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Speaker 4: that very much rolls up their sleeves and gets to work.

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Speaker 4: And the most important thing is to strengthen by that

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Speaker 4: or relationship between the United States and Belize, and we

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Speaker 4: partner with Believes on a number of things, and that's

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Speaker 4: the build the capacity of the government and civil society organizations,

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Speaker 4: develop shared prosperity of course, strengthen people people ties, protect

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Speaker 4: you as citizens and their interests, and improve security. I

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Speaker 4: would say that Belize sits in the Northern Triangle and

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Speaker 4: because of that, there are a number of issues that

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Speaker 4: are disconcerning the flow of migration, drugs, and illicted activities,

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Speaker 4: transnational criminal organizations. I feel very blessed to be living

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Speaker 4: in Belize and getting to explore the wonders and the

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Speaker 4: biodiversity of this beautiful country, from the second largest barrier

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Speaker 4: Brief to the the blue Hole, which is very famous

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Speaker 4: if you're a diver. I have yet to do it

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Speaker 4: because I'm I just like snorkeling, I like to say

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Speaker 4: on the surface, but I've swam with manatees, I've checked

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Speaker 4: out the mangroves. I reached the top of Shanantini, which

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Speaker 4: is five thousand year old Mayan sights.

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Speaker 1: You're making me want to come visit.

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Speaker 4: I seriously want to go to visit. I please.

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Speaker 1: We need a vacated Belize Simon.

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Speaker 2: Well, Michelle, it's Asian, American and Pacific Islander Heritage Month

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Speaker 2: right now, and I'm thinking about your family's immigration story,

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Speaker 2: and I'm thinking about the sacrifices. Are the choices that

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Speaker 2: they made so that you could live out your story?

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Speaker 3: Mama Kwan staying up all.

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Speaker 2: Night sewing sequins on the costumes while working two jobs.

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Speaker 3: What do you hope your daughter's story looks like?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 4: Being a child of immigrants, You know, my parents immigrated

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Speaker 4: in their early twenties with nothing but a seat of hope.

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Speaker 4: And when I mean nothing. It is nothing enough to

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Speaker 4: buy a plane ticket. My dad was a busboy at

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Speaker 4: a restaurant, and I still to this day, I am

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Speaker 4: very curious of how they were able to get by

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Speaker 4: because my dad's English, he would joke, is like Chinglish

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Speaker 4: because didn't go to high school. He is, my Chinese

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Speaker 4: is bad. My English is bad, so it's Changlish. I

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Speaker 4: have an older brother and older sister. My sister skated

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Speaker 4: with me, and I think this is why at points

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Speaker 4: of my athletic career, when I was just starting out,

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Speaker 4: there were times when my parents couldn't afford, you know,

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Speaker 4: to take us to the next skating competition. My mom

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Speaker 4: was like literally sewing costumes because there was no other choice,

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Speaker 4: you know. And there were times where I was about

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Speaker 4: this close from quitting and my parents refused. My parents like, no,

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Speaker 4: you might not have a coach going into the national championships,

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Speaker 4: but if you're okay with that, we're going to still

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Speaker 4: keep going. We could still pay for ice time, so

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Speaker 4: you could still skate. You just won't have that mentor

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Speaker 4: that coach beside you. So it's that American dream, you know,

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Speaker 4: that if you could believe it and if you could

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Speaker 4: work hard, you can achieve it.

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Speaker 1: There is this really cute video on your Instagram where

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Speaker 1: your daughter's all bundled up for ice skating and you're

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Speaker 1: tying her skates. And I just think there was a

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Speaker 1: collective awe on the internet when we all watched that.

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Speaker 1: What was that like for you?

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Speaker 4: Oh? Well, it was an emotional moment, not me tying

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Speaker 4: my daughter skates, but when my father stepped in and

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Speaker 4: helped tie Kelli skates, because I just remember my father

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Speaker 4: doing that for me, and I just had a kick

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Speaker 4: out of the joy on her face when she was

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Speaker 4: running towards the ice. First of all, we were going

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Speaker 4: to the rink because we were going to see my

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Speaker 4: nephews skate. They're doing they're enrolled and learned to skate.

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Speaker 4: And then Callie just started to run on the ice.

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Speaker 4: I'm like, okay, I'm going to strap on some skates

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Speaker 4: really quickly. And then of course in her head she

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Speaker 4: thought she could start jumping and she was like kicking,

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Speaker 4: and I was like, what are you doing. I'm holding

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Speaker 4: her hand and she's like kicking.

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Speaker 3: See that's your DNA right there.

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Speaker 4: Well was like fear. Yeah, I was like what are

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Speaker 4: you doing? But it was super exciting.

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Speaker 2: What does she know about you and your badassery? I mean,

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Speaker 2: does she have any idea yet? No idea.

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Speaker 4: She's a little over two years old, so she I

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Speaker 4: think she's seen a little bit of a performance or two.

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Speaker 4: She knows skating's always in the periphery. She even knows

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Speaker 4: how to do a spiral, right, I go spiral, like, yeah,

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Speaker 4: so that's the one word she does.

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Speaker 1: Know she'll be doing shoot the deck so soon.

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Speaker 4: I know, I know she's yeah, she'll she'll love it.

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Speaker 1: When I think of Olympians and why we're all so

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Speaker 1: excited about the Olympics, part of it is this hope

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Speaker 1: we see these people. I know, I've heard you talk

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Speaker 1: about them as almost super like we look at them

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Speaker 1: as superhuman. I look at them as people that never

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Speaker 1: gave up on their dreams. And that's why they inspire

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Speaker 1: me so much. When you look at the games coming up,

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Speaker 1: what do you feel inspired by?

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Speaker 4: When I look at athletes, doesn't matter fits and figure

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Speaker 4: scathing or other sports across the board. It's that discipline

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Speaker 4: that strive for excellence and also the talent and watching

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Speaker 4: athletes for one, competing at the Olympics of the highest

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Speaker 4: level is like the pride that they have representing their

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Speaker 4: country and you know, having been there before, it like

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Speaker 4: just fills me with all these memories. But the sacrifices

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Speaker 4: that their families have made in order to give those

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Speaker 4: opportunities for these athletes, it's such a beautiful thing. It's

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Speaker 4: I don't know, I have no words for it. It's

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Speaker 4: it's a gift to be able to watch them, be

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Speaker 4: able to compete at that level and strive for excellence.

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Speaker 1: When I see these athletes, people like you, who were

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Speaker 1: competing at such an elite level, it becomes about more

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Speaker 1: than just the talent or the sport. It's a business.

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Speaker 1: It's all these other things. Did that ever impact your

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Speaker 1: joy or did you always find that in skating?

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Speaker 4: To me, I feel that it was such a gift

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Speaker 4: to be able to do what I loved. I enjoyed

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Speaker 4: doing the choreography and picking out costumes, and it was

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Speaker 4: a production, you know. And it was always predictable because

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Speaker 4: the off season was always April through August, and then

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Speaker 4: the first competition September and then the national championships in January,

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Speaker 4: and Olympics is always in February, and March was always

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Speaker 4: the month of World championships. I think there are no

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Speaker 4: doubt times where it becomes hard, where things aren't going

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Speaker 4: your way, where you're literally and in figure skating, like

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Speaker 4: hitting a rut, and the best way to find your

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Speaker 4: way out of it, to me was kind of figuring

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Speaker 4: out how you fell in love with it in the

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Speaker 4: first place. I said this to the team the other day,

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Speaker 4: where said I didn't have to look very far for

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Speaker 4: inspiration because it was always a young skater getting on

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Speaker 4: the ice for the very first time, and it was

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Speaker 4: a quick reminder of how I felt when I started

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Speaker 4: for the very first time. And I'm sure I'll be

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Speaker 4: replaying that video I have when Callista, you know, ran

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Speaker 4: onto the ice, because that vigor, that excitement, it goes away, dissipates,

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Speaker 4: but it's always within you. And so those were good

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Speaker 4: reminders for me when things are getting bad and it's

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Speaker 4: sort of evaluated, Okay, why am I feeling this way?

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Speaker 4: How can I get to a place where I feel

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Speaker 4: excitement and happy and thrilled because the heaviness or the

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Speaker 4: frustration part can be difficult at times because let's be honest,

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Speaker 4: it's sports is tough, and you're always pushing the envelope

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Speaker 4: your body's always sore, you fall a lot in the

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Speaker 4: figures getting you're bruised up, and you know it's tough,

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Speaker 4: so you need that inspiration to carry you through.

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Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break, but we'll be

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Speaker 1: right back with Michelle Kwant. And we're back with Michelle Kwant.

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Speaker 2: Here on the bright side. We love talking to athletes,

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Speaker 2: and specifically female athletes, because it really illustrates this beautiful

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Speaker 2: connection between sports and leadership. We see so many women

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Speaker 2: who are in the C suite now who got their

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Speaker 2: start as athletes. How do you feel your athletic career

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Speaker 2: prepared you for leadership?

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Speaker 4: That's a very good question, and I think the statistics

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Speaker 4: is like women in C suite's positions have played sports

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Speaker 4: like ninety five percent. It's a staggering statistic. There are

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Speaker 4: so many advantages, you know, of the things that you

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Speaker 4: learn from sports. That's teamwork, that's focused, that's determination, persistence,

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Speaker 4: like that grit that people talk about, that vision. It

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Speaker 4: really helped me prepare for everything in life. I know

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Speaker 4: that when I retired, you know, I talk about that

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Speaker 4: sort of lost of identity, but it didn't take long

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Speaker 4: for me to say, well, the way I in which

436
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 4: I succeed in sports, I have to reapply myself and

437
00:24:57,359 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 4: work hard. And I know I can work hard. I

438
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:03,159
Speaker 4: have four whole confidence that I am determined and I

439
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 4: am persistent. So the way I'm going to succeed here

440
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:13,159
Speaker 4: is applying that same principles. And in terms of leadership,

441
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 4: I think I think it has helped me because I think,

442
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 4: for one is understanding people and how to work with people.

443
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 4: I had an entire team that I worked with that

444
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:27,920
Speaker 4: we worked day in and day out. A coach, a choreographer,

445
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:32,159
Speaker 4: a trainer, a you know, the figure figure Skating association.

446
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 4: I had sponsorships, I had managers, I had I had

447
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:37,399
Speaker 4: everybody you know, and we all work together as a

448
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 4: team to to get to the same finish line. So

449
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:46,880
Speaker 4: I think I think sports is such an invaluable experience,

450
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,639
Speaker 4: whether you're in it to compete at the Olympics in

451
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 4: the highest level or to just playing team sports and

452
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 4: just to have fun.

453
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:59,119
Speaker 1: There's such a crossover in analogies between sports and life.

454
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,639
Speaker 1: I think that's why I love sports films so much.

455
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 1: What lessons have you learned from your athletic career that

456
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 1: also apply to your life?

457
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:12,639
Speaker 4: Hmmm? You need to be able to one be organized

458
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 4: as an athlete. Athletes are very very highly prepared. When

459
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:21,159
Speaker 4: someone said to me, God, you look so confident out there, like,

460
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 4: how did you do that at fifteen years old? How

461
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 4: did you do that at such a young age? And

462
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,720
Speaker 4: I think confidence is it something that somebody has and

463
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:34,440
Speaker 4: somebody doesn't have. But trust me that if you're prepared,

464
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,399
Speaker 4: you show up a lot more confident than if you

465
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,400
Speaker 4: didn't write. It's like, it's the same as if you're

466
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 4: in school and you have a presentation and you had

467
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 4: done nothing. You're going to go into the classroom very

468
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 4: nervous and less confident, right, but if you show up

469
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 4: having done your work. And I think that's when athletes

470
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 4: talk about being in the zone. Is that certain competitions

471
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,360
Speaker 4: in my career, I could say, Yeah, I could see

472
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:07,120
Speaker 4: in my face that I was going to kill it

473
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,400
Speaker 4: because there was nothing going to stop me from doing

474
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 4: or getting in my way. That's what I say.

475
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 1: I've heard this from athletes before. Boxers tell me this.

476
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 1: Actually they know when they're going to win and when

477
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 1: they're not.

478
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:23,919
Speaker 2: And someone Biles has talked about when she had a

479
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,720
Speaker 2: gut feeling that she wasn't going to perform well that

480
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:31,120
Speaker 2: that actually manifested. That's so interesting. So it's metaphysical, it's

481
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 2: in the mind and the body.

482
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 1: Did you ever have a trick for that, like when

483
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:38,360
Speaker 1: you're when you're feeling like you're sucking, Because sometimes I'll

484
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 1: come in here and I'm like, I just feel like

485
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:41,119
Speaker 1: I suck today.

486
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:44,919
Speaker 4: Yeah. I mean my advice to myself would like be

487
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 4: get out of your own way, Like, just let let

488
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 4: yourself do it. Your body knows how to do it.

489
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 4: Just let your mind get in that comfort space to

490
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 4: let it go and just do what you've been training

491
00:27:56,520 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 4: to do. I think when you're not in the greatest shape,

492
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 4: when when you know you're going to have to dig deep,

493
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 4: you're going to have to dig deep. I would say

494
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 4: just to take my time, to just be in the

495
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:15,159
Speaker 4: moment and take one step in front of another.

496
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:17,200
Speaker 1: Do you say something to yourself ever.

497
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:20,439
Speaker 3: To hype myself up or to get out of a rut.

498
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:22,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, either like when you're having a bad moment or

499
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 1: a bad day.

500
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 3: I do, But it's so corny. I don't want to

501
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 3: admit it.

502
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 1: Come on, you have to tell us mine's corny too.

503
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 4: I want to know because they might be useful to me.

504
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:32,719
Speaker 3: It's so corny.

505
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 2: Okay, So I'll tell you I do a lot of

506
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,439
Speaker 2: speaking engagements, right, and I have this affirmation that I

507
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 2: say to myself in the mirror. I say I am

508
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 2: radiant because when you say the word radiant, you can't

509
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 2: help but smile.

510
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:49,719
Speaker 4: So that's not cheesy at all, Michelle, It's kind of cheesy.

511
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 4: But I like you that I'm gonna use this because

512
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 4: somebody had said to me that once you crack a smile,

513
00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 4: it changes your body. Yes, and I I similar. It

514
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 4: wasn't a word, but it was more like a little

515
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 4: right before I skated, especially when I was on the ice,

516
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 4: it was like, do I have my legs under me?

517
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 4: Because you know, when you get nervous, you start to,

518
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 4: like yep, you start to either have shallow breasts or

519
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 4: you start to and I mince words. So, especially when

520
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 4: I have to do a speaking engagement, I'm not a

521
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 4: natural speaker. It's not something that I enjoyed doing, by

522
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 4: the way, and so I have to find myself like

523
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 4: I have to find that composure. Do I have my

524
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 4: legs under me?

525
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 3: Yeah?

526
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 4: Be calm and don't rush. That's what my my three

527
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 4: Don't rush that's it. I have two and one is similar.

528
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 1: I say, slowly, slowly, slowly, slowly, you do rush, and

529
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 1: my other one is embarrassing, but I say, uh. In

530
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 1: my mind, I'm like, Danielle, you didn't come this far

531
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 1: to come this far, little pep.

532
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 4: And I think that's it's funny because you know, being

533
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 4: a athlete, you have these pet talks with yourself all

534
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 4: the time because that's pretty much what you're doing the

535
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 4: entire day of training. When you're trying something or you're falling,

536
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 4: you're like, come on, one more time that you pick

537
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 4: yourself back up, and then it's like, come on, let's

538
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 4: do it. It's like, it's funny.

539
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 1: That's actually what I got most from our conversation today.

540
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 1: I have to tell you. When you were talking about

541
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 1: falling and getting back up, the imagery of that is

542
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 1: powerful for me. It's like, just get back.

543
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 4: Up, let's do it. Like perseverance. Yeah, I think that's

544
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 4: something I'm I actually have to do the opposite where

545
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 4: I'm like, okay, I just fell a hundred times. I

546
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 4: have to stop.

547
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 3: Yeah.

548
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 1: No.

549
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 4: My coach used to say that to me. There's one

550
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 4: particular jump that I just would fall and I fall,

551
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 4: and I literally have broken bone like spurs on my

552
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 4: my shin because I would kick myself, not purposely, but

553
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 4: I would like try to get out, so I would

554
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 4: continue to and being that hard headed, sobborn person, I

555
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 4: was like, I'm gonna go keep going. I had a

556
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 4: good pep talk, let's go, let's go one more time,

557
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 4: one more time, You're so close, let's do no, And

558
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 4: it'd be like fifty falls in a row, and my

559
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 4: coach would be like, come here, Michelle, come here right now. Stop,

560
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 4: let's try this tomorrow, like start now. And he would

561
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 4: recognize that I wasn't going anywhere, like we're not gonna

562
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 4: We're not going to solve it right now.

563
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 1: Did he classate you too? Because you're I love it,

564
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 1: you're giving us the coach you're wagging And he would

565
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 1: do that.

566
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 4: He'd be like stop, come here, like he would literally

567
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 4: that's so funny. Yeah, And you catch yourself that time,

568
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 4: like those times where you're like you need to just

569
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 4: walk away and find that balance, because that's the perfectionism

570
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 4: that we talked about earlier. Sometimes that gets the best

571
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 4: of you when the best thing you could do is

572
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 4: walk away a little bit and revisit in a later.

573
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:03,960
Speaker 2: Time, Michelle, I was really moved by your autobiography Heart

574
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 2: of a Champion. I read that when I was growing

575
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 2: up and it really touched me and inspired me as

576
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 2: a young girl. And now that you have some perspective

577
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 2: and distance from that chapter, what does it mean to

578
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 2: have the heart of a champion now as a mother,

579
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 2: as a diplomat, and as an olympian.

580
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 4: Well, thank thank you first of all for reading that book.

581
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 4: You know, Heart of a Champion? What does that mean?

582
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 4: And it sort of changed the trajectory of my life

583
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 4: really because win or lose is how that attitude is

584
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 4: what carries you through when things didn't go my way

585
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 4: in skating. It's like, how did I learn from that

586
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 4: and how did I apply it to the next competition

587
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 4: and have that heart of a champion? To me, I

588
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 4: think it's that falling and getting back up thing that

589
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 4: we've talked about. You know, we all fall, but it's

590
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 4: how you pick yourself back up to keep going. Champions

591
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 4: aren't the ones that are almighty and great. They're the

592
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,479
Speaker 4: ones that can pick themselves up and keep going. And

593
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 4: that's that's something that I admire a lot. I can't

594
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 4: even imagine what's next for you? Are you taking like

595
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 4: a full left turn?

596
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 1: Are you going to stay in diplomacy, like what's on

597
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 1: your mind?

598
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 4: Well, I think diplomacy is in my blood for sure.

599
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 4: I think the people that I've worked with in the

600
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 4: last year and a half since being at post has

601
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 4: been so wonderful. And I know that I will stay

602
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 4: in touch with these diplomats wherever they go, because they

603
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 4: go from serving here and Belize to moving to another

604
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 4: country and serving our country and another capacity, and it's

605
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 4: so inspiring. I have to say, But where my path goes,

606
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 4: I have no idea, you know, being a political pointee,

607
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 4: I only serve for a certain duration and then I

608
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,920
Speaker 4: find the next challenge and my next adventure.

609
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:13,800
Speaker 2: Ambassador Kwan, this has been a dream come true for

610
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 2: both of us.

611
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 3: Thank you so much.

612
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 4: I appreciate both of you. Thank you.

613
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 2: Michelle Kwan is the United States Ambassador to Belize and

614
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 2: a former World champion figure skater and Olympic medalist. Learn

615
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 2: more about her and her work as an ambassador on

616
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 2: Palm Side Chat with Ambassador Kwan. That's wherever you get

617
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 2: your podcasts.

618
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:45,360
Speaker 1: That's it for today's show. Tomorrow We're joined by Jacqueline Novak,

619
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 1: co host of the podcast Poog and comedian behind the

620
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 1: recent Netflix special Get on your Knees, Listen and follow

621
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 1: the bright Side on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

622
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts.

623
00:34:57,760 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 3: I'm Simone Boye.

624
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 2: You can find me at Simone Voice on Instagram and TikTok.

625
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:05,279
Speaker 1: And I'm Danielle Robe on Instagram and TikTok. That's r

626
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 1: O b A.

627
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 3: Y See you tomorrow, folks,