1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's 3 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:16,040 Speaker 2: Chuck and Jerry's here too. And this is a gold 4 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 2: fashioned barn burner of a stuff you Should Know type topic. 5 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 1: Woo whizbang Chuck. 6 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 2: This was somebody sent this in as a suggestion recently. 7 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 1: I think, right, yeah, you know, I think you and 8 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 1: I had both been aware of this story. But we 9 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: did get a recent suggestion from David Departcher. 10 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:36,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, David Parcher, I think just a couple of weeks 11 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 2: ago sent in the suggestion and look at the timing. 12 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:42,559 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, thank you, David. And we're going to talk 13 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: about another David, that is David Hahn, the Nuclear Boy Scout. 14 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 2: Yep. 15 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:49,239 Speaker 1: And this is one of those where we owe a 16 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 1: huge debt to a single human because this story was 17 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: may have just gone fairly unnoticed as a pretty localized 18 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 1: local news paper item if it hadn't have been found 19 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: by a gentleman named Ken Silverstein, who ended up writing 20 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 1: a very large piece in Harper's Magazine and then a 21 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: book called The Radioactive Boy Scout colon the True story 22 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:18,320 Speaker 1: of a boy in his backyard nuclear reactor, so big, 23 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 1: thanks to Ken. A lot of this came from your work. 24 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, and shout out also to the journalists from the 25 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 2: Natural Resources News Service, which is this investigative journalist group 26 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 2: that just as a public good like investigate stories and 27 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 2: then turn around and give them to news outlets. And 28 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 2: apparently that's how Ken came across the story and began 29 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:44,040 Speaker 2: researching it. So there's two people that were responsible for 30 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:45,040 Speaker 2: it at least. 31 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, and three because we have to count David Hahn, 32 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 1: the Michigan teenager who in the nineties managed to create 33 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 1: a nuclear reaction in the potting shed of his mom's house. 34 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: It is a story that is interesting and amazing but 35 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 1: also very sad in its ending. 36 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, and technically we should thank five people because it 37 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 2: took Patty and Ken Han to reproduce and create David Hahn. 38 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 2: So we're at five people now that we need to thank. 39 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 1: All right, So David was born October nineteen seventy six. 40 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 1: That's a year you were born. 41 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah. I was just a couple months older than him. 42 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, and look what this guy did. Yeah, what have 43 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 1: you ever done? 44 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 2: Thanks for that? 45 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 1: You gotta hit podcasts. You're not sweating it. 46 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 2: Oh, I'm sweating. 47 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: When he was a little And we say this because 48 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: it very much figures into the end of David's story. 49 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 1: It's very sad. But his mother, Patty was diagnosed with 50 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 1: depression and paranoid schizophrenia, was hospitalized through his early childhood 51 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:53,520 Speaker 1: off and on, and she would eventually take her own 52 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:54,800 Speaker 1: life in nineteen ninety six. 53 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:57,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that we'll play into the story later on. 54 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 2: But Patty remains a character throughout most of it. So 55 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 2: too does David's father, Ken, who we mentioned. He's person five. 56 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 2: We need to thank Patty and Ken got divorced, I 57 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 2: think when David was really little, like maybe a toddler, 58 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 2: and Ken ended up marrying a coworker. Person number six 59 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 2: we need to thank Kathy missing. Ken and Kathy were 60 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:22,239 Speaker 2: both engineers at General Motors. This whole thing took place 61 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:28,359 Speaker 2: in the suburbs of Detroit, specifically Clinton Township, Michigan, specifically 62 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 2: later on, in a subdivision called Golf Manor as we'll see. 63 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 2: But so David lives with Ken and Cathy, and then 64 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 2: on weekends he goes and stays with his mom, Patty 65 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 2: and her boyfriend. Person number seven who we need to 66 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 2: thank Michael Polassic, and they're the ones I believe who 67 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 2: lived in golf Manor and under by all accounts, like 68 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 2: David lived a pretty normal childhood, just doing normal childhood things. 69 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 2: It wasn't until he was ten that his life found 70 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 2: its purpose, which is pretty early if you think about it, 71 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 2: for your life to find its purpose. 72 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, and by the way, if you live in golf Manor, 73 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 1: hold your emails, we know you're in Commerce Township. 74 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 2: Yes, thank you for that. I think his dad lived 75 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 2: in Clinton Township. 76 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's probably like where I lived in New Jersey. 77 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:19,599 Speaker 1: It's like all these old townships just run together. 78 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:21,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what it looked like on the map. 79 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 1: Yeah. So the person we really need to thank this 80 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:26,480 Speaker 1: is number eight. 81 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:27,239 Speaker 2: Person eight. 82 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 1: Is, like you mentioned, when David was ten years old, 83 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 1: his step mom's father, so I guess his step grandfather 84 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 1: if you count that as a thing. He was also 85 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 1: an engineer at GM. He gave a little David a 86 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 1: book called the Golden Book of Chemistry Experiments, and little 87 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:49,720 Speaker 1: David was fascinated with science and chemistry, but in particular 88 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 1: with the stories of Mary and Pierre Currie and their 89 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:57,480 Speaker 1: radium discovery and the glow. I think the glow of 90 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 1: that whole thing really enthrall this young guy. 91 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, this book was heavily illustrated and like the instructions 92 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:06,840 Speaker 2: kind of looked had the same look as like those 93 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:11,719 Speaker 2: Ripley's Believe it or not. Yeah, comic strips almost totally 94 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:13,720 Speaker 2: something that would appeal to a kid that age are 95 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 2: a little older. You can find it online in its 96 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 2: entirety as a PDF. And I looked at that illustration. 97 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:23,719 Speaker 2: I don't really know what he saw, and it's actually 98 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 2: black and white that glows to some lines coming off 99 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 2: of a beaker or whatever. 100 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:29,480 Speaker 1: But imagination, my friend, for. 101 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 2: Some reason, it enthralled him so much so that within 102 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 2: two years of receiving that book, he was devouring his 103 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 2: father's chemistry textbooks at age twelve. 104 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, so he was. I mean, these were books that 105 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:45,720 Speaker 1: were more advanced than his age. Clearly a smart guy. 106 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 1: At the age of fourteen, he apparently made nitroglycerin by himself, 107 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:53,599 Speaker 1: which evidently isn't the hardest thing to do, but is 108 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:57,280 Speaker 1: very dangerous to do. There are other stories like he 109 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:00,840 Speaker 1: brought wanted to make his own fireworks boy scout camp, 110 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 1: so we brought some powdered magnesium. It ended up catching 111 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 1: on fire and ruined a tent. So what else. He 112 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 1: tried to develop a self tanning method that didn't work out, right. 113 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, he overdosed on Kantha's anthen, which I can't remember 114 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:20,720 Speaker 2: which one which episode that came up in, but it's 115 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 2: a pigment that turned your skin orange from the inside out. 116 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:25,160 Speaker 2: And that's what he did. He was trying to come 117 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 2: up with a self tanning method that didn't use any 118 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:29,600 Speaker 2: kind of UV radiation. 119 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, no comment, but he was that kind of dude. 120 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:35,599 Speaker 2: He would just turn up at like a Scout meeting 121 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 2: or something bright orange and be like, yeah, too much 122 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:39,040 Speaker 2: Cantha's anthen. 123 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 1: So yeah, he's exactly that kid. He's also the kind 124 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 1: of kid who essentially destroys his bedroom because he's doing science. 125 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:53,280 Speaker 1: The walls were wrecked, the carpet was stayed, they had 126 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:56,040 Speaker 1: to move the carpet out. Eventually, his dad was like, listen, 127 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 1: this is getting serious. You're destroying our home. You got 128 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 1: to move into the basement first of all, and when 129 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 1: we're not here, you can't be in here either. They 130 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 1: took away equipment, they took away some chemicals, and finally 131 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: they said, all right, this is out of hand. You 132 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 1: can't do this anymore. So they said, all right, I'll 133 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:21,240 Speaker 1: do it, like every divorce kid says, I'll do it 134 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 1: at the other. 135 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 2: Parents house, that's right, And so he did. He ended 136 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 2: up setting up a lab in his mom's potting shit 137 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 2: and golf manor in commerce township. And this is where 138 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 2: the story really starts to kind of take off, because 139 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 2: his dad was getting really worried that his son was 140 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 2: basically creating and selling drugs, like that's what he was 141 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 2: doing with his chemistry experiments, and so like they would 142 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 2: he and his stepmom would drop in in the library 143 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 2: when he was supposedly there to see if he was there. 144 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 2: Like they really did not trust this fascin with chemistry, 145 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 2: which I mean, I can understand if your kid blows 146 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 2: himself up a couple of times, you're like, what are 147 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 2: you doing exactly here? 148 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. 149 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 2: So I don't know if he knew that David went 150 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 2: and set up a lab in his mom's potting shed 151 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 2: or not and just was like, it's fine as long 152 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 2: as side of my house. I'm not sure. I've never 153 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 2: seen that either way. But one thing that he did 154 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 2: do to try to be like, okay, I think you're 155 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 2: creating drugs. You're probably on them, you may or may 156 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 2: not be selling them. None of those seem to be true. 157 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 2: From what I can tell. You need to become an 158 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 2: eagle scout. And he pushed his son to become an 159 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 2: eagle scout. 160 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's exactly what he did, as we will 161 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 1: later find out. But when it came to time per 162 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 1: merit badge selection, he said, I want the one that 163 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 1: says atomic energy, and the scout master said, I think 164 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 1: he told the writer of the book, no one had 165 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: ever chosen that before in the history of the troop, right, 166 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 1: So it kind of reminds me of the Brian Coxceine 167 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 1: and Rushmore with Bill Murray when he says he's one 168 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 1: of the worst students we've got. I can just picture 169 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 1: Brian Cox saying that that no one's ever tried for 170 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 1: this badge before. But it was a legit badge. It's 171 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 1: kind of funny that it existed. It's different now, as 172 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: we'll see. But in nineteen sixty three they introduced the 173 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 1: atomic energy badge. It came with a pamphlet that they 174 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 1: created with the nuclear energy industry that turned out to 175 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 1: have a lot of really useful information. Almost like a 176 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 1: starter kit on how to like source radioactive elements in 177 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 1: the real world. Yeah, and how to get your own 178 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: reactor going. 179 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 2: Yeah. One of the projects you could do was to 180 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 2: build your own Geiger Counter. Like it was serious stuff. 181 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe so legit that, Like I said, the boy 182 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:52,680 Speaker 1: Scouts would eventually change that badge. I think probably because 183 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 1: of what happened with David in two thousand and five. 184 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 1: They replaced it with the Nuclear Science Badge. 185 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 2: Yes, so he's still working on the original, the Atomic 186 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 2: Energy Badge from nineteen sixty three. Right, Oh, yeah, So 187 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:09,840 Speaker 2: he's just devouring this. He's having the best time. He 188 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 2: visits a hospital ward to learn about X rays, which 189 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 2: is part of the Merit Badge certification. The thing that 190 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 2: really changed things, though, Chuck, is he decided just these 191 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 2: things the Merit Badge was having him do. Like one 192 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 2: of the things was draw a diagram of a fission reaction, 193 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,679 Speaker 2: or build a model of a nuclear reactor, but a 194 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 2: model like a cardboard model basically, or paper machine, or yes, 195 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:45,080 Speaker 2: or I will create my own nuclear reactor in my 196 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:49,320 Speaker 2: mom's potting shed. He decided he was so psyched about 197 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:52,079 Speaker 2: atomic energy that he wanted to do it. Himself. 198 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:55,320 Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I guess you do the model and 199 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 1: you're like, hey, that wasn't so hard. Let me see 200 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: if I can do it for real. And he wanted 201 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:03,080 Speaker 1: to build, and you know, this shows that he was 202 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 1: a kid. I think. I don't think this was to 203 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 1: cause harm. He wanted to build a neutron gun, and 204 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:13,119 Speaker 1: the way I just for my research this is speculation. 205 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 1: But it didn't seem like he was like I want 206 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 1: to build a neutron gun to try and like blow 207 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: up the city that I live in. 208 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:20,440 Speaker 2: Not at all. 209 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 1: It seemed more like a kid who was really into 210 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 1: science and sci fi and chemistry and wanted to make 211 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 1: a little pew pew gun. 212 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:34,079 Speaker 2: Yeah. I think neutron gun is a it's a misleading term. 213 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:37,440 Speaker 2: I can't get the Nintendo Duck Hunt gun out of 214 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:40,560 Speaker 2: my head whenever I hear neutron gun. But really, what 215 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 2: a neutron gun is, at least the one that David made. 216 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 2: It's a block of lead with a cavity carved out, 217 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 2: and you put radioactive material in the cavity and then 218 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 2: cover it over with like aluminum foil, and then you 219 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:56,720 Speaker 2: just point the aluminum foil side of that block of 220 00:11:56,840 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 2: lead at what you want to irradiate, and then you 221 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 2: try to start a chain reaction, a nuclear reaction. That 222 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 2: seems to be the sum total of his goals. He 223 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 2: wasn't trying to build a bomb, he wasn't trying to 224 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 2: sell plutonium to the Libyans, he wasn't doing anything like that. 225 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 2: He just wanted to see if he could start a 226 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 2: nuclear chain reaction, this thing that had fascinated him since 227 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 2: he was ten years old. And so we set about 228 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:25,840 Speaker 2: doing that with help from this eagle scout merit badge pamphlet. 229 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 1: Yeah. 230 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's the whole thing that much more nuts. 231 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:35,079 Speaker 1: Yeah. And also by adopting a persona as a professor, 232 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:39,319 Speaker 1: because he starts writing into organizations, trying to get information, 233 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 1: trying to get materials, trying to get schematics. He said 234 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 1: he was Professor Hahn that taught at his high school, 235 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 1: Chipawa Valley High School. 236 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 2: Oh goat and chipmunks are they? I don't know. 237 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 1: And over the next few years, basically and apparently you know, 238 00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 1: he he applied himself. He didn't apply himself in school. 239 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 1: He was smart, but he was failing almost failing out, 240 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 1: basically barely passing, like the math and English exams needed 241 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 1: to graduate eventually. But that is to say these letters 242 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:14,679 Speaker 1: had like spelling errors and grammatical errors. It didn't seem 243 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 1: like they were written by a professor. But people bought it, 244 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 1: and before you know it, he's like corresponding as a 245 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:22,200 Speaker 1: professor to these adults. 246 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, and these adults are just totally into this correspondence. 247 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 2: They're really enjoying helping this who they think a high 248 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 2: school physics teacher learn the stuff he's looking for about 249 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:36,839 Speaker 2: nuclear energy to ostensibly go and teach to the kids. Right, 250 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 2: So this correspondence is like genuine. The only thing illegitimate 251 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 2: about it was that he was misrepresenting who he actually was, Yeah, 252 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 2: a professor rather than a high school student. But other 253 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 2: than that, everything else about it seems to be pretty neat. 254 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, except for the fact that it's dangerous and illegal. 255 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 2: Yes. So one of the people that he corresponded with, 256 00:13:57,280 --> 00:13:59,200 Speaker 2: I think he corresponded with him the most, was named 257 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 2: Donald erb e Erb and he was the guy who 258 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 2: was the head of the department that produces isotopes. If 259 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 2: you need isotopes, you can go to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. 260 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:12,320 Speaker 2: This is not you, but like, if you are in 261 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 2: some sort of industry that uses isotopes, and this herb 262 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 2: will be like, I got you, I got you covered. 263 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 2: For some reason, they come in these little baggies with 264 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 2: like card suits printed all over him. It's weird. That's 265 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 2: an herb kind of touch. 266 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 1: It's so nice. 267 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 2: But he was. He worked for the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, 268 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 2: and nobody helped David Hahn more than Donald erb did 269 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 2: again unwittingly. 270 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, So should we take a break. 271 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 2: We should? 272 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 1: Okay, all right, I was about to keep going, but 273 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 1: let's take a break, and we're going to talk about 274 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 1: his pursuit of radioactive materials right after this. 275 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 2: I don't know. 276 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 1: M M. 277 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 2: By the way, Chuck, it's the Chipewa Valley, Big Red, 278 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 2: which appears to be a giant cardinal. If you ask me, 279 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 2: that was a that was a missed, missed opportunity. Chipmunks, 280 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 2: chip chipmunks, the rabbit chipmunks. 281 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it, all right. So when we left off, 282 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 1: David han was getting serious about building this uh nuclear reactor. 283 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 1: He needs material to do that, so and we should 284 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 1: point out that, you know, I said it was dangerous. 285 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 1: It was dangerous. He did know this. He still pursued it, 286 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: but he like he had a lead shield that he 287 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 1: worked with. He threw away his contaminated clothes. He left 288 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 1: his shoes in there and didn't take them in his house, so. 289 00:15:57,760 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 2: It was like it was driving shoes, but in a 290 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 2: potting show he was building a breeder reactor. 291 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 1: Do you have driving shoes? Is that a thing? 292 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 2: I know that it's a thing from watching old episodes 293 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 2: of Frasier. 294 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 1: I've never heard that. 295 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 2: Yes, you've seen driving shoes. People wear them and they're 296 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 2: totally unaware that you're not supposed to wear them out 297 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 2: of your car. But it's like, if your car is 298 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 2: so nice, you take off your outdoor shoes and put 299 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 2: on your driving shoes that never leave your car, and 300 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 2: that way you don't get car dirty. Yeah. 301 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 1: I don't know if I have seen them. I guess 302 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 1: I just you have. You did? 303 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 2: They're like they look kind of like a cross between 304 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 2: the loafer and a moccasin. And then the dead giveaway 305 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 2: is the tread on the bottom comes up the back 306 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 2: of the heel as well. Because of the position that 307 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 2: your foot is in when you're driving, it gives you grip. 308 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 1: All right, I'm gonna have to look this up. You've 309 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 1: seen them all right, all right, so that's amazing. Fifty 310 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 1: two years old never knew about this. 311 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 2: I was only probably forty when I learned about it, 312 00:16:57,320 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 2: So I don't feel bad. 313 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, all right. So he starts looking for materials, and 314 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 1: these are just a few sort of stories about he 315 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 1: would go about that he wanted some amoricium two forty 316 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 1: one for this neutron gun. In the booklet that he 317 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:16,439 Speaker 1: got from the Boy Scouts said you can get the 318 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 1: stuff in smoke detectors. So he tries to steal them 319 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:24,359 Speaker 1: from the Boy Scout camp, got caught and sent home early. 320 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 1: Then he writes smoke detector companies saying I need a 321 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 1: bunch of these things for a school project. Eventually one 322 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 1: company sold him one hundred broken ones for one hundred bucks. 323 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 1: Couldn't figure out how to find this amoresium, so got 324 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 1: in touch with another smoke detector company. It was like, oh, well, 325 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:44,440 Speaker 1: here's where you find it, and was able to extract 326 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:48,959 Speaker 1: amorsium enough to like weld together with a blowtorch. 327 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:51,880 Speaker 2: Yes, So remember I was talking about. The neutron gun 328 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:54,879 Speaker 2: is a lump of lead with a cavity hollowed out 329 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:58,160 Speaker 2: and then you put your radioactive material in the cavity 330 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:04,000 Speaker 2: of lead. No radioactive material, that's right, Amrisium is I 331 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 2: looked up why it would be in smoke detectors. Did 332 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 2: you see why? No, it's really interesting just for a second. 333 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 2: So a marisium it because of its radioactive decay. It 334 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:20,119 Speaker 2: creates a flow of ions, positive and negative ions that 335 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:23,400 Speaker 2: are are moved across like this metal plate. And there's 336 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 2: a constant movement of ions that this americium is creating 337 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 2: from the air around it. And when smoke interacts with 338 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:35,200 Speaker 2: those ions, it actually breaks that flow. That flow is 339 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 2: detected by the smoke detector, which triggers it to go off. 340 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:42,200 Speaker 2: Isn't that just so bizarre. That's how your smoke detector works. 341 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 1: And that's how they still work. 342 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:47,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, there's still a marisium in smoke detectors today. 343 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:48,200 Speaker 1: Amazing. 344 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:48,879 Speaker 2: Yeah. 345 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 1: So you said he built his own Geiger counter. I 346 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 1: don't know if it was this one or if he 347 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:56,640 Speaker 1: ended up getting the other one, but he would drive 348 00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:01,879 Speaker 1: around Upper Michigan with this Geiger counter on, just looking 349 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: for naturally occurring uranium out in the world. And then 350 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 1: eventually he's like, this isn't working out, so he got 351 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:13,119 Speaker 1: a Czechoslovakian firm that the NRC told him about and 352 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 1: sourced uranium. 353 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 2: Or Yeah, he had that Geiger counter mounted to his 354 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:20,679 Speaker 2: dashboard and apparently anytime he drove he had it turned on. 355 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:22,320 Speaker 2: Isn't that amazing? 356 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's what you gotta find this stuff. 357 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:26,879 Speaker 2: And he actually did find some stuff called pitch blend 358 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 2: and it's a source of low grade uranium and he 359 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:33,119 Speaker 2: tried to extract it, but he couldn't purify it enough. So, 360 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 2: like you said, he was like, well, just buy some 361 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 2: pure uranium from a firm in Czechoslovakia that he heard about, 362 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:41,879 Speaker 2: either from the pamphlet or from Donald or one of 363 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 2: the two. 364 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,159 Speaker 1: Yeah. Another thing he did was the little mantle like 365 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 1: the little mesh sacks that you tie on to a 366 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 1: gas lantern. He bought thousands of those because they have 367 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 1: little tiny amounts of thorium two thirty two, and so 368 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 1: you know, he buys that of these from surplus stores, 369 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:05,760 Speaker 1: buys thousands of dollars in lithium batteries to extract lithium. 370 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:10,879 Speaker 1: So he's been very you know, I think, showing a 371 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 1: lot of initiative at least how to find this stuff. 372 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:16,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, like he's using is his after school 373 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:19,440 Speaker 2: job money to buy one thousand dollars in lithium batteries 374 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 2: to purify the thorium that he got from the gas 375 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 2: lanterns that he purchased and extracted it from. Like, I 376 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:28,479 Speaker 2: can't imagine how much time and effort this took. And 377 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 2: by the way, he did purify that thorium pretty well. 378 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,440 Speaker 2: I saw that he got it to nine thousand times 379 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:37,760 Speaker 2: the level found in nature of radioactivity and about one 380 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 2: hundred and seventy times the level that you would need 381 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:43,360 Speaker 2: a license from the Nuclear Regulatory Commission to possess. 382 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 1: He also went around, of course, where you're going to 383 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:52,720 Speaker 1: find old, dangerous radioactive things, junk yards and antique shops. 384 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:56,399 Speaker 1: So he would take that Geiger counter into a junk 385 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:58,960 Speaker 1: shop or an antique store and he would walk around 386 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 1: until something lit up, like radium paint if you remember 387 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 1: our I think it was pretty excellent podcasts on the 388 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:09,439 Speaker 1: Radium Girls, and he would find like radium paint in 389 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:10,119 Speaker 1: an old clock. 390 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:14,399 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, he found a vial of paint just tucked 391 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 2: away inside of one and that then he really had 392 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 2: his radioactive material for his neutron gun. He actually stepped 393 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 2: it up and built a second gun. He'd also from 394 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:29,119 Speaker 2: corresponding with Donald Herb, gotten even better at creating a 395 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 2: neutron gun that was going to be useful in creating 396 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 2: a nuclear reaction. He also found that when he used 397 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 2: the radium on I think the thorium that he purified, 398 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:45,200 Speaker 2: he was trying to trigger a chain reaction by bombarding 399 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 2: thorium with neutrons. That's what he was trying to do. 400 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 2: He found that the thorium wasn't converting into uranium like 401 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 2: it was supposed to, so he contacted Donald RB and 402 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 2: Donald ERB said, your neutrons are too fast. You got 403 00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 2: to slow him down. One of the best ways to 404 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:01,120 Speaker 2: slow him down is tritium. And he said, well, where 405 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,960 Speaker 2: would I find tritium? And apparently they use tritium to 406 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 2: make the glowing sites on gun scopes and gun sights. 407 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 2: So he ordered I think dozens of gun sights from 408 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 2: Miller catalogs from stores, and then he would scrape the 409 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:18,879 Speaker 2: tritium off and then send them back and say, I 410 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 2: need this site repaired. There's no tritium on it, and 411 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 2: they would put more tritium on it and send it back, 412 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 2: and he just created a new pseudonym and send that back. 413 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 2: And that's how methodical that kid was. 414 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 1: So this is all kid stuff. He's like fourteen, fifteen 415 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:37,680 Speaker 1: years old. Eventually he turned seventeen, and he says, all right, 416 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: I think I want to build an actual nuclear reactor. 417 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:46,359 Speaker 1: It's called a tiny breeder reactor. They've been around since 418 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 1: the early nineteen fifties when the US developed them, when 419 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 1: we were you know, sort of the beginning of the 420 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:55,439 Speaker 1: age of trying to use nuclear power for electricity, and 421 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: they're like, well, these little tiny breeder reactors might be 422 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:00,680 Speaker 1: a good way to extend the supply of fuel or something. 423 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:04,480 Speaker 1: It never quite worked out that way. I think they're 424 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:06,679 Speaker 1: still working on that kind of thing in Russia and China, 425 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:10,359 Speaker 1: but it never really went off the ground. But it 426 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:13,439 Speaker 1: was enough to inspire David to think that maybe I 427 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:16,879 Speaker 1: can build a small thing like this in my mom's 428 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 1: potting garage or potting shed. 429 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 2: Yeah. The difference between a breeder reactor and a regular 430 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 2: reactor is that you in a regular reactor, you just 431 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 2: use fuel and you get energy from the fuel. With 432 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,119 Speaker 2: the breeder reactor, you get energy from the fuel, but 433 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 2: it also creates more fuel and you end up with 434 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 2: more fuel than you started with. I saw it liken 435 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 2: to leaving your house or the car with the half 436 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:42,399 Speaker 2: a tank of gas and when you return home the 437 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,120 Speaker 2: tank is full. That's kind of like what it does. 438 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:48,120 Speaker 2: And yet they just could never get it to work. 439 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:49,679 Speaker 2: But that's what he was trying to do. And the 440 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 2: reason why is because you start with uranium two thirty eight, 441 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 2: and that's the most abundant uranium found in nature. 442 00:23:56,320 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 1: That's right. So he doesn't have enough uranium, matter what 443 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:04,480 Speaker 1: kind it is, to create an actual chain reaction for 444 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,119 Speaker 1: normal reactors. So he says, maybe I can at least 445 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 1: do something like it. Seemed like he became sort of 446 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 1: obsessed just with this goal of creating some kind of 447 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:17,439 Speaker 1: nuclear reaction himself, got a blueprint from one of his 448 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:21,720 Speaker 1: dad's textbooks, took that emericium in the radium from his 449 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 1: neutron guns, mixed it with some aluminum, shaving some beryllium, 450 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: wrap that up in aluminum foil, and basically you have 451 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:34,200 Speaker 1: yourself a very small reactor core right there. 452 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, he created an atomic pile like the first one 453 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 2: that FORMI created in Chicago, but on a much much 454 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 2: smaller scale. But it worked like it worked. He created, 455 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 2: like you said, a nuclear reactor, and it started a 456 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:50,119 Speaker 2: nuclear chain reaction and it started to take off actually 457 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:51,320 Speaker 2: pretty quickly. 458 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, he's got that Geiger counter and he's measuring this 459 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 1: thing like on a daily basis, and he's like it's 460 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 1: actually growing, like it's getting more radio active in here. 461 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:07,680 Speaker 1: I imagine he was thrilled and also possibly a little 462 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 1: bit like Matthew Broderick in wargames where it's like, oh, 463 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:16,359 Speaker 1: wait a minute, like what have I done here, such 464 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 1: that he was worried and took it apart. 465 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 2: He did. Apparently he could detect it from five houses 466 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 2: down the street. And I looked up pictures of Golf 467 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,159 Speaker 2: Manner and I mean their yards are decent size, so 468 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,639 Speaker 2: five houses away is a pretty good distance to be 469 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 2: able to pick up his nuclear reactor in his mom's 470 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:36,720 Speaker 2: potting shed with his Geiger counter. And at that big 471 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 2: sideyards there, yeah, lots of big side yards. No zero lines, no, no, no, 472 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:44,879 Speaker 2: nothing like that. No, this is Golf manner Man that 473 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:48,119 Speaker 2: we're talking about. So he took it apart and he 474 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 2: just kind of distributed the different parts to try to 475 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:56,720 Speaker 2: drop the radioactivity levels in his mom's potting shed and 476 00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 2: he kind of went about his life after he disassembled 477 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 2: his reactor. He'd achieved his goal, but apparently he had 478 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,200 Speaker 2: a penchant for stealing wheels and tires off of cars. 479 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 2: He admitted as much in an interview later on as 480 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:17,480 Speaker 2: an adult, and he seems to have gotten caught doing 481 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 2: that by the police shortly after he disassembled his reactor. 482 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 2: And when the police caught him, they said, we're going 483 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:27,880 Speaker 2: to search your car, and he said, go ahead, search 484 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 2: my car, but do not open that toolbox. That toolbox 485 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:32,359 Speaker 2: is highly radioactive. 486 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:35,119 Speaker 1: Is that a good cliffhanger for a break? 487 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 2: I think so. Imagine the cops going what they're. 488 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 1: Like, we got to listen to ads before we know 489 00:26:40,840 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 1: what happens. Sorry, all right, we'll be right back, all right. 490 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:14,720 Speaker 1: So it's August almost September nineteen ninety four. That reactor 491 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,879 Speaker 1: is taking apart. I think you put the thorium in 492 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:22,080 Speaker 1: a shoe box. The radium in the americium was in 493 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 1: the shed still, and the rest is in the trunk 494 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,639 Speaker 1: of his car. He's just been pulled over, like you said, 495 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:31,880 Speaker 1: because there was reports that he was stealing tires and wheels, 496 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:36,520 Speaker 1: and he said, warning that things radioactive don't open up 497 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:40,720 Speaker 1: that toolbox. So they said, well, maybe we should. This 498 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:44,720 Speaker 1: sounds like an ied to me and improvised explosive device. 499 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 1: Why don't we call him the bomb squad to be safe, 500 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 1: called in the bomb squad, they said, this whole car 501 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:53,240 Speaker 1: basically is radioactive, and all of a sudden, the Federal 502 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 1: Radiological Emergency Response Plan is triggered, and the EPA and 503 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:02,119 Speaker 1: the FBI and the INNER and the DOE are in 504 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:07,239 Speaker 1: the state and local authorities are all like trying to 505 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:09,640 Speaker 1: not trying to get this kid, but trying to figure 506 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:11,400 Speaker 1: out what in the world is going on with this kid. 507 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, he's seventeen at the time still, and all of 508 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 2: a sudden, these huge agencies are like swooping down on 509 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,119 Speaker 2: him to figure out what's going on. The thing is, 510 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 2: I guess they didn't think to ask the right questions 511 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,680 Speaker 2: or their imaginations just didn't go as far as they 512 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,680 Speaker 2: could have. But they seem to have in this initial 513 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:35,159 Speaker 2: questioning not really have gotten any further than his car, 514 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 2: And he didn't offer up any information whatsoever about his 515 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 2: actual like nuclear reaction experiments in his mom's potting shed. 516 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 2: They didn't even know there was a potting shed at 517 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:46,880 Speaker 2: his mom's house. 518 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 1: Really hard believe. 519 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,400 Speaker 2: Yes, but that's the level of questioning that this kid 520 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 2: was subjected to. And I mean, in retrospect, you're like, 521 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:55,880 Speaker 2: are you guys kidding? You didn't know about the potting 522 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 2: shed right off the bat. But if you're an FBI agent, 523 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 2: Department of Energy agent, and you're talking to a seventeen 524 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 2: year old kid, you're probably not going to assume that 525 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 2: because they have this stuff and a toolbox in their car, 526 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 2: they actually were successfully creating nuclear chain reactions in their 527 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 2: mom's potting shed. I can kind of commiserate with that. 528 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 1: Sure, you probably assume you just got it at radiation 529 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 1: are pretty much so. A few months later is when 530 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,320 Speaker 1: they finally got an expert from the state Department of 531 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 1: Public Health to interview David more thoroughly, and that turned 532 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:39,320 Speaker 1: up the potting shed. David's mom at this point had 533 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 1: gathered most of the radioactive stuff and gotten rid of it, I imagine, 534 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 1: not in a very safe way at all, probably just 535 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 1: went in the trash can. And they still found a 536 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 1: lot of radiation at the house and the materials there 537 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,120 Speaker 1: in the shed they had apparently those of vegetable can 538 00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:00,800 Speaker 1: that had about a thousand times the normal back ground radiation. 539 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 1: And so they called in federal authorities and they said, well, 540 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 1: your house is this, Well, the potting shed at least 541 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 1: is a superpun site. 542 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. They ended up spending sixty grand on a two 543 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:18,000 Speaker 2: to three day operation between June twenty sixth and twenty 544 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 2: eighth of nineteen ninety five disassembling the potting shed, I think, 545 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:24,400 Speaker 2: getting some of the earth around it out of there, 546 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 2: putting them in sealed barrels with you know, radioactive hazard 547 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 2: symbols on it, and they sent it to the Great 548 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 2: Salt Lake Desert where they were buried with other canisters 549 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:40,320 Speaker 2: of low level radioactive waste. His mom's potting shed is 550 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:44,480 Speaker 2: in a Great Salt Lake desert buried with other radioactive material. 551 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 2: That's kind of neat. The real stuff though, like you said, 552 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 2: it ended up in like the landfill nearby. There was 553 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,080 Speaker 2: a quote from David that I saw where he said 554 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,720 Speaker 2: the authorities got the garbage, and the garbage got the 555 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 2: good stuff, in reference to what his mom and thrown away. So, yeah, 556 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:08,720 Speaker 2: there's some lumps of amrisium and radium sitting somewhere in 557 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 2: the garbage pile outside of Clinton Commerce. 558 00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:16,600 Speaker 1: Township and what's in like a thousand years, it'll be safe. 559 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:17,560 Speaker 2: Probably something like that. 560 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:20,680 Speaker 1: I was just I don't know how long that would be. 561 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:21,600 Speaker 1: I bet somebody knows. 562 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:22,720 Speaker 2: So oh though right now. 563 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:29,920 Speaker 1: So David falls into depression after this. His high school 564 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 1: classmates were not kind to him. Of course, they called 565 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 1: him radioactive boy. The EPA said, Hi, we should you know, 566 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:41,240 Speaker 1: we can examine you in your body to see if 567 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,880 Speaker 1: you're okay. He said, no, no, no, I don't want 568 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,680 Speaker 1: anything to do with that. I'll be fine. He did 569 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 1: get that Eagle Scout badge. I think the Scout leaders 570 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 1: are like, should we really do this? But they did. 571 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 1: They give him that Eagle Scout badge. And no, apparently 572 00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:03,120 Speaker 1: that the neighborhoods, all those huge side yards came in 573 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:06,360 Speaker 1: handy because no one in the neighborhood, and no one 574 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,480 Speaker 1: at the home or in his family apparently ever, suffered 575 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 1: from any kind of radiation sickness. 576 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:15,400 Speaker 2: That is so lucky. Yeah, like that is really lucky 577 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:18,440 Speaker 2: for him and for everybody, but he no one got hurt. 578 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 2: That's just mind boggling. At this point, he went on 579 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:27,000 Speaker 2: and joined the Navy a couple of years later, and 580 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 2: he served for several years. Was honorably discharged and ironically 581 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,440 Speaker 2: served on the USS Enterprise, which is a nuclear submarine, 582 00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:38,080 Speaker 2: but he didn't work in any capacity near the nuclear 583 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 2: part of the submarine. 584 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,000 Speaker 1: He I think he fully served his time in the Navy. 585 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 2: He did. Yeah, he was honorably discharged. 586 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:48,760 Speaker 1: No, no, No, I think I think he was discharged from 587 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,640 Speaker 1: the Marines. I think he like he fully served his 588 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:53,640 Speaker 1: time in the Navy. Oh, I thought they thought he 589 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:54,480 Speaker 1: was never discharged. 590 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:56,520 Speaker 2: I thought they discharged you when your time was up too. 591 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:00,600 Speaker 1: No, you just you're just done. You just like a 592 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,640 Speaker 1: discharge means it's time for you to go. And they're like, wait, 593 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:05,200 Speaker 1: I got three more years, and they're like, no, it's 594 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:05,600 Speaker 1: time for you. 595 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,120 Speaker 2: To get gotcha, Okay, I gotcha all right. So yes, 596 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,480 Speaker 2: in between the Navy and the Marines, he went to 597 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 2: college and started working on an associate's degree. Like you said, 598 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:19,560 Speaker 2: he joined the Marines. He was honorably discharged, and his 599 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,520 Speaker 2: life was just not going the way he wanted it to. 600 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:26,760 Speaker 2: Two thousand and seven found him unemployed. His mental illness 601 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,719 Speaker 2: had really kind of kicked in, and toward the end 602 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:33,440 Speaker 2: of his life spoiler alert, he died at age thirty 603 00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 2: nine there was an FBI report on him where somebody 604 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:42,360 Speaker 2: had been informing on him that he was not using 605 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,200 Speaker 2: his meds, that he was heavily using cocaine, and that 606 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:48,840 Speaker 2: he was acting really paranoid. From what I can tell 607 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 2: based on the FBI documents, it seems like the person 608 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:55,640 Speaker 2: informing on him seems concerned, not like they're doing it 609 00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:57,360 Speaker 2: out of any kind of vengeful reason. 610 00:33:58,160 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 1: Right. 611 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:02,640 Speaker 2: But when FBI showed up and interviewed him again, this 612 00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:08,239 Speaker 2: is when he's in his thirties, he passed all the 613 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:11,799 Speaker 2: inspection or queries that they gave him, questioning that they 614 00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:12,239 Speaker 2: gave him. 615 00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:15,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, and there were you know, there were other complaints 616 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,920 Speaker 1: and reports with the police that you know, he was 617 00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:21,480 Speaker 1: trying to do this again, that he had a small 618 00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:25,400 Speaker 1: reactor at his house. Another landlord I think, said that 619 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:30,000 Speaker 1: he had stolen some smoke detectors that they were missing, 620 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:33,240 Speaker 1: and they found them, like you know, torn apart, basically 621 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:37,440 Speaker 1: near David's garage. But they never they never found any 622 00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 1: kind of radiation. He said he hadn't done that kind 623 00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:42,120 Speaker 1: of stuff in a decade, and you know, they went 624 00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:44,480 Speaker 1: and checked like where he was living, and they never 625 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:47,400 Speaker 1: found any evidence that he had at least started up 626 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:49,000 Speaker 1: any more radioactive work. 627 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:54,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. Imagine during your FBI questioning, you're like, I haven't 628 00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,919 Speaker 2: done any nuclear reactions at home for like ten years. Man, 629 00:34:57,960 --> 00:34:59,840 Speaker 2: that's like that is a different chet. It's like a 630 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:05,760 Speaker 2: lifetime and age stuff. Yeah, exactly. The FBI documents also 631 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,600 Speaker 2: give just kind of a sad note. In twenty ten, 632 00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:12,160 Speaker 2: which is where the FBI's investigation of him as an 633 00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:15,799 Speaker 2: adult left off based on those complaints, they noted that 634 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:19,200 Speaker 2: he was in rehab after being charged with a bunch 635 00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:23,440 Speaker 2: of drug charges. So apparently the cocaine use thing was true. 636 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,759 Speaker 2: That was twenty ten, six years later, like I said, 637 00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:29,960 Speaker 2: he was dead at age thirty nine. 638 00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:33,839 Speaker 1: Yeah. So in the media, of course, initially there were 639 00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:38,400 Speaker 1: some people that said that the radioactivity did him in 640 00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:42,080 Speaker 1: or that was a factor at least very sadly, the 641 00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,319 Speaker 1: report came back that wasn't true. But he died from 642 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:49,200 Speaker 1: combined effects of alcohol and fentanyl and ben a drill, 643 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,680 Speaker 1: and he suffered from mental illness just like his mom, 644 00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:58,680 Speaker 1: I think, from paranoid schizophrenia and depression. And it's just 645 00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:02,080 Speaker 1: a very sad to a story of the kid. He 646 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 1: sounds like he was really smart and just wanted to 647 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:07,680 Speaker 1: try and do something really amazing, you know. 648 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:11,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, he was found dead in the bathroom at the 649 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:13,840 Speaker 2: Walmart that he had gone shopping in the night he died. 650 00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:17,480 Speaker 2: And it is a sad end. I don't quite know 651 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:18,640 Speaker 2: what to make of it, Chuck. 652 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:23,120 Speaker 1: Like jam it's if he was still alive. 653 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:24,719 Speaker 2: I don't know. I think it would be a much 654 00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:26,080 Speaker 2: different story somehow. 655 00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:27,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, but he did something. 656 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,080 Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe it's the story of somebody who 657 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,640 Speaker 2: was just so single minded they did something that most 658 00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:36,280 Speaker 2: other people would have given up on or never even attempted. 659 00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:37,799 Speaker 2: And that's worth mentioning, you. 660 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:42,400 Speaker 1: Know, Yeah, absolutely, And I tried to look at other angles. 661 00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:46,000 Speaker 1: I just I never saw anything like nefarious. Really no. 662 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:50,400 Speaker 2: No, either an FBI interview or a media interview, the 663 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,000 Speaker 2: interviewer was like, I mean, were you thinking of making 664 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:55,799 Speaker 2: a bomb or whatever? And they said they reported like 665 00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:58,480 Speaker 2: he seemed to just be like that never even crossed 666 00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,040 Speaker 2: my mind, Like, no, it's not at all what I 667 00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:04,440 Speaker 2: was doing. He was just obsessed with creating a nuclear 668 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:05,120 Speaker 2: reaction and. 669 00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:08,680 Speaker 1: He did it. Yeah. Well, thankfully we don't have to 670 00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,120 Speaker 1: end it on that sad note, because Livia found this 671 00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:15,080 Speaker 1: other great story of a kid named Taylor Wilson who 672 00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:20,040 Speaker 1: got the radio Active Boy Scout book from his grandmother 673 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:25,520 Speaker 1: as an eleven year old science kid and operating under 674 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:30,960 Speaker 1: supervision and oversight and getting real experts to help, actually 675 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:34,560 Speaker 1: became the youngest person to achieve nuclear fusion at the 676 00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:35,360 Speaker 1: age of fourteen. 677 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is amazing. I mean, fusion is a whole 678 00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:39,279 Speaker 2: new ballgame. 679 00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:44,400 Speaker 1: But yeah, fourteen and works as a nuclear physicist as 680 00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:44,880 Speaker 1: an adult. 681 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, and supposedly, according to The Guardian, a super cool 682 00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:48,239 Speaker 2: dude too. 683 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, and directly inspired from David's story. 684 00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:55,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, and apparently his grandmother lived to regret it again 685 00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:58,120 Speaker 2: according to The Guardian. Oh really Yeah, that's what the 686 00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,560 Speaker 2: Guardian said, because I guess his grandmother was giving it 687 00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:03,600 Speaker 2: to him as a cautionary tale and he was like, oh, 688 00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:04,719 Speaker 2: I want to try this miss out. 689 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:07,640 Speaker 1: Very interesting. 690 00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:11,719 Speaker 2: Taylor Wilson's grandmother is the eleventh person we need to 691 00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:14,240 Speaker 2: thank in this episode, Taylor Wilson being ten and Donald 692 00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:15,440 Speaker 2: Irb being number nine. 693 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:17,719 Speaker 1: Right, nice work. 694 00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:20,600 Speaker 2: If you want to know more about the Nuclear or 695 00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:23,560 Speaker 2: Radioactive Boy Scout, David Han, there's a lot of stuff 696 00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:27,320 Speaker 2: out there, but you would be remiss in not reading 697 00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:31,560 Speaker 2: Ken Silverstein's article at least, if not his book on 698 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,799 Speaker 2: David Hant. And while you're looking that up, we'll just 699 00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:36,080 Speaker 2: go ahead and do listener mail. 700 00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,960 Speaker 1: All right, this is from Tiffany. Hey, guys, thank you 701 00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,359 Speaker 1: for bringing back some vivid memories from my eighth grade 702 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:46,880 Speaker 1: reading class too many decades ago to admit. But my 703 00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:49,719 Speaker 1: reading teacher was also the social studies teacher, and I 704 00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:51,920 Speaker 1: guess that explains where all of our reading lists included 705 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:55,839 Speaker 1: Animal Farm, Hiroshima, all applied on the Western Front and 706 00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,880 Speaker 1: you know it The Jungle by Upton Sinclair to Ham 707 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:01,920 Speaker 1: home what we read. He would incorporate details of the 708 00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:04,640 Speaker 1: book into a little imaginary coin toss he did each 709 00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,480 Speaker 1: day to determine whether the boys or girls got to 710 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:11,800 Speaker 1: go first and walk to lunch in single file line. 711 00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:13,919 Speaker 1: For the weeks we discussed the Jungle. It would sound 712 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:17,480 Speaker 1: something like this. Today's menu includes hot dogs. Call it 713 00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:19,360 Speaker 1: in the air. Is it the rusty nail or the 714 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:23,640 Speaker 1: severed finger? What a great teacher. One day we noticed 715 00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:25,439 Speaker 1: that half the kids in the class had an edition 716 00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:28,960 Speaker 1: of the book that included this, and yes, I still 717 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:32,920 Speaker 1: remember it. Decades later. Mary had a little lamb and 718 00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:36,080 Speaker 1: when she saw it sicken. She sent it off to 719 00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:40,719 Speaker 1: the packing town and now it's labeled chicken. I was 720 00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:43,560 Speaker 1: really hoping you guys had seen this so we could 721 00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:47,000 Speaker 1: hear a recitation during the podcast, but we just did 722 00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:48,040 Speaker 1: it right there, Tiffany. 723 00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:49,840 Speaker 2: That's great. Yeah, I didn't run across that. 724 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:51,719 Speaker 1: I didn't neither. That's a great ad. 725 00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:54,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks a lot, Tiffany. That's a great email and 726 00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:57,560 Speaker 2: we appreciate it big time. And hats off to your teacher. 727 00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:00,560 Speaker 2: The thirteenth person we need to thank in this episode. 728 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:04,520 Speaker 2: You're number twelve, Tiffany, Can we think, Jerry? Sure? Why not? 729 00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:07,680 Speaker 2: We'll go with fourteen. We could thank ourselves and just 730 00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:09,280 Speaker 2: bring it up to sixteen, a nice. 731 00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:10,840 Speaker 1: Even number, sweet sixteen. 732 00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:13,319 Speaker 2: We're gonna make it seventeen because we want to thank 733 00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:15,200 Speaker 2: you for listening, and we want to thank you in 734 00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:17,440 Speaker 2: advance for getting in touch with this via email. It's 735 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:23,799 Speaker 2: stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. Stuff You Should Know 736 00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:25,319 Speaker 2: is a production of iHeartRadio. 737 00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:29,040 Speaker 1: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 738 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:37,560 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.