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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Savannah Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie missing,

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Speaker 1: Day thirty. Is this possible? Was the case bungled at

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Speaker 1: the get go? And can it be recovered? I'm Nancy Grace,

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Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us. Look at the perp.

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Speaker 2: Five foot nine to five foot ten. Video is always

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Speaker 2: the best of it.

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Speaker 3: Is there an accomplice, something protruding that resembles a phone.

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Speaker 4: The vehicle is the lynchpin to cracking a case wide open?

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Speaker 1: How the hey has this guy managed to outsmart the feds?

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Speaker 5: This case is full of hypothesis, theories, mystery guy in

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Speaker 5: a video, when in the end it comes down to

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Speaker 5: an eighty four year old woman who's not with our family.

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Speaker 1: Straight out to Crime Stories investigative reporter Dave Matt Day thirty,

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Speaker 1: what's the latest?

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Speaker 6: We are now at that one month part of the

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Speaker 6: investigation of the kidnapping of Nancy Guthrie, and it's shocking

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Speaker 6: that as we are moving this week is like a

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Speaker 6: whole new investigation. There's been a lot of movement in

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Speaker 6: the last couple of days, specifically, homicide detectives are now

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Speaker 6: added to the case. Also the photos, the video from

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Speaker 6: the ring doorbell camera that we had last week of

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Speaker 6: cars at two thirty in the morning, about two and

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Speaker 6: a half miles from Nancy Guthrie's house. Well, now where

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Speaker 6: the FBI at first said, well, there's not much to it,

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Speaker 6: it's not part of the investigation. Well, now everybody is

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Speaker 6: flipping and saying, yes, this could be the braking the case.

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Speaker 6: We've got a camera showing a car driving towards the

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Speaker 6: house at two thirty and leaving back the same way

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Speaker 6: two thirty seven or two thirty eight, Brian Fitzgibbons. As

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Speaker 6: we look at the cars two and a half miles

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Speaker 6: from the house, going back and forth, As we look

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Speaker 6: at the right wrist of the suspect on the front porch,

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Speaker 6: is that a tattoo? We also spent a lot of

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Speaker 6: time talking about a possible walkie talkie communication device in

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Speaker 6: the front pocket, but now taking a closer look, it

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Speaker 6: appears to be an antenna sticking out of the perps pocket.

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Speaker 6: Talk to us about what we're looking at or what

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Speaker 6: we're possibly seeing. Is that an antenna and what would

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Speaker 6: it be?

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Speaker 7: Yeah?

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Speaker 8: Absolutely, Dave.

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Speaker 4: So, speculation has gone really in two directions with this antenna.

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Speaker 4: One that it's a walkie talkie that the perpetrator was

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Speaker 4: using to communicate with a driver so as to not

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Speaker 4: leave behind any cell phone data signals. And the second

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Speaker 4: piece direction this speculation is going is that it could

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Speaker 4: very well be.

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Speaker 9: A signal jammer.

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Speaker 2: Now what is that signal jammer?

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Speaker 8: This is a thirty to forty.

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Speaker 4: Dollars device that can easily be obtained on illegal online markets,

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Speaker 4: and that signal jammer will broadcast a radio frequency that

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Speaker 4: will effectively overwhelm any devices connected to Wi Fi within

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Speaker 4: a twenty five to fifty meter range.

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Speaker 9: Now what is that?

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Speaker 8: How would that be used here?

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Speaker 4: You know, we see in many home invasion burglary cases

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Speaker 4: these types of signal jammers being used, and what it's

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Speaker 4: going to do is effectively disconnect those security cameras, in

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Speaker 4: this case, the Nest camera from sending any push notifications

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Speaker 4: emergency alerts in that short window of time while you're

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Speaker 4: close to the device.

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Speaker 1: New video footage uncovered of twelve separate vehicles speeding by

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Speaker 1: in Nancy's neighborhood directly onto her street between twelve am

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Speaker 1: and six am the very night Nancy is abducted around

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Speaker 1: to am shocker. One of those vehicles that many people

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Speaker 1: have identified as a Kia Soul speeds by just eight

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Speaker 1: minutes after Nancy Guthrie's pacemaker stops connecting to Bluetooth. What

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Speaker 1: is the significance. Let's see a look at what the

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Speaker 1: FBI is looking at along with us. This is a

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Speaker 1: neighbor around two miles away from Nancy Guthries's home. This

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Speaker 1: is from their home cam street facing. Why is this significant?

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Speaker 1: This is aroun our friends over at Fox News Digital.

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Speaker 1: By the way, look at the vehicles. They're not just

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Speaker 1: vehicles in the neighborhood. They are vehicles. This goes right

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Speaker 1: onto Nancy Guthrie Street between twelve thirty am and six am,

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Speaker 1: who is out driving around at the exact time. Nancy

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Speaker 1: Guthrie is kidnapped a few blocks away one of the vehicles,

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Speaker 1: just eight minutes after her pacemaker disconnects from Bluetooth, joining

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Speaker 1: us an All Star panel. But first of all, straight

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Speaker 1: out to Dave Matt Crime Stories investigative reporter. Dave tell

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Speaker 1: me about this video.

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Speaker 2: You know, Nancy, it's shocking. When you look at the video.

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Speaker 6: You're seeing this ring camera picking up the car driving

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Speaker 6: on what is considered a back road. It's not a

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Speaker 6: road that is traveled on a regular basis by a

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Speaker 6: lot of people, but those familiar with the area Nancy

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Speaker 6: would know. This is a perfect way out of Nancy

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Speaker 6: Guthrie's neighborhood. And as you mentioned, the two thirty six

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Speaker 6: am marker is really important because Nancy's pacemaker attached by

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Speaker 6: bluetooth at two twenty eight am. This is about seven

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Speaker 6: and a half minutes later. The exact amount of time

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Speaker 6: it takes to drive from Nancy Guthries's home to this

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Speaker 6: location on the ring doorbell camera footage. We're seeing this.

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Speaker 6: This camera footage was available Nancy, but it was just

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Speaker 6: outside of the two miles circumference that law enforcement put

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Speaker 6: up as their ring around the actual crime scene. It's

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Speaker 6: two and a half miles away from Nancy Guthries' home,

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Speaker 6: but again it is an area that leads away from

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Speaker 6: her neighborhood and it perfectly catches these cars we mentioned

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Speaker 6: a minute ago. Between midnight and six am that day,

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Speaker 6: twelve cars travel down that road, this one at two

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Speaker 6: thirty six am.

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Speaker 1: Guys, this is our friends at Fox News. Let me

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Speaker 1: go straight out to special guests joining us, Eric Drickerson

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Speaker 1: is with US former FBI special agent twenty years who

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Speaker 1: had specialized in international kidnapping. Many times in your cases,

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Speaker 1: you have used surveillance video like this, and this was

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Speaker 1: a near miss. It was just outside that two mile

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Speaker 1: radius where the FBI and local sheriffs were looking. What

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Speaker 1: do you make of this, Eric, Yeah, and.

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Speaker 10: See this falls in line with their normal investigative procedure

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Speaker 10: what they're going to be doing. Obviously, they're focusing on

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Speaker 10: the evidence collected at the scene of the crime, but

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Speaker 10: as they work further and further away from that epicenter,

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Speaker 10: they're going to look at canberras. The next logical step

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Speaker 10: would be to follow points of entry and exit to

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Speaker 10: the community. They're going to be looking at what we

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Speaker 10: call choke points, or where vehicles have a tendency or

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Speaker 10: a natural tendency to flow, and they're going to be

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Speaker 10: trying to put together additional pieces.

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Speaker 7: When I look at this video, the unfortunate siety is

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Speaker 7: obviously the resolution doesn't provide us details like license plate

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Speaker 7: numbers provide insight. It does provide enough detail for them

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Speaker 7: to follow up on additional leads and Nancy this could

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Speaker 7: be something that is significant in the case.

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Speaker 8: I talked about this before.

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Speaker 11: As they open that circumference center of the crime, they're.

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Speaker 12: Going to reveal additional information. Now, I would like to

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Speaker 12: say whether or not this vehicle was involved in the

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Speaker 12: actual crime itself. It is of significant relevance because it

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Speaker 12: was in the area when the crime occurred.

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Speaker 8: So whether it is directly.

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Speaker 11: Related to the criminal activity or to the abduction, or

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Speaker 11: whether or not they are a valuable.

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Speaker 10: Piece of evidence in being a weakness, it's still a

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Speaker 10: very very relevant breaking evidence.

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Speaker 9: In news.

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Speaker 1: Crime stories. With Nancy Grace. Now to Brian Fitzgibbons. You

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Speaker 1: know him well. He is director of Operations USPA Nationwide Security. Brian,

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Speaker 1: you and I have dealt with a lot of cases

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Speaker 1: that were cracked because of a car. Already, our online

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Speaker 1: sluice have identified one of the vehicles as a Kia Soul.

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Speaker 1: What do you make of the car information?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you're spot on here, Nancy, and very quickly online

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Speaker 4: sluice identified that this is a Kia Soul, And I

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Speaker 4: want to add something. Eric did a great job describing

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Speaker 4: how they're expanding that radius with collecting video. Sources have

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Speaker 4: reported that law enforcement has collected nearly ten thousand hours

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Speaker 4: of surveillance video related to this case. So what does

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Speaker 4: that say to us? This one happened, This video happened

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Speaker 4: to come to Fox News. Okay, there are tens of

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Speaker 4: thousands of hours that has not come to Fox News,

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Speaker 4: and that law enforcement is going through the process of

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Speaker 4: triaging based on the time, the location of those cameras,

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Speaker 4: the time of the recording, and they're starting to process

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Speaker 4: that all.

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Speaker 1: Now a lot is being made online. It's helpful, it's

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Speaker 1: not helpful. It's a dead end.

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Speaker 2: It's a lead.

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Speaker 1: You can't listen to anything you're hearing or reading in

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Speaker 1: the media, media on the outside, law enforcement on the inside.

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Speaker 1: But I am telling you that every bit of video

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Speaker 1: is being reviewed by the FEDS.

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Speaker 8: Guys.

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Speaker 1: This video is provided to us from our friends at

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Speaker 1: Fox News. Brian Fitzgibbons speaking of the video and whether

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Speaker 1: it's real or not real, and sources say it is

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Speaker 1: and sources say it's not. What about the speed he's

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Speaker 1: the driver is flying by, and it makes me remember

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Speaker 1: how fast Brian Coburger. He was like a bat out

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Speaker 1: of h double l flying flapping as fast as he

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Speaker 1: can to get out wings on fire. Okay, Coburger flying

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Speaker 1: out of there, and the particular car that goes by

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Speaker 1: right after Nancy guthries pacemaker disconnects from Bluetooth is flying.

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Speaker 1: Brian Fitzgibbons.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it looks like that vehicle's moving at a pretty

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Speaker 4: high rate of speed, and as we've seen in this case,

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Speaker 4: these roads are very dark residential areas, so that could

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Speaker 4: be an anomaly to be driving at that high rate

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Speaker 4: of speed at that time of night.

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Speaker 1: Joining us now, Heather Barnhardt, digital forensics expert with Celebright.

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Speaker 1: You heard all about that in the Alex Murdock trial,

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Speaker 1: the Case Wide Open and the Sands Institute System Admin Audit,

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Speaker 1: Network and Security. She worked on the Brian Coburger case.

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Speaker 1: She is a co author of Practical Mobile Forensics, now

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Speaker 1: in its fourth edition. Wow, Heather, thank you for being

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Speaker 1: with us. Heather, I want to circle back to the

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Speaker 1: video that has just surfaced about the video of the

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Speaker 1: vehicles flying by at the same time Nancy guthriees kidnapped

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Speaker 1: in her neighborhood. What do you make of that video?

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Speaker 13: Forensic experts will be able to slow down those vehicles

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Speaker 13: to the point of us being able to identify make

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Speaker 13: and model. They should also be able to detect speed.

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Speaker 13: So if you think you're involved in a crime, you're

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Speaker 13: probably driving pretty quickly. And this is exactly what happened

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Speaker 13: with Brian Coburger. He tore out of that neighborhood in

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Speaker 13: that vehicle. That car was the second most important identifier

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Speaker 13: to the DNA to getting access to Brian Coburger and

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Speaker 13: leading to an arrest. So this could be what investigators

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Speaker 13: need all along to identify who is involved in this crime.

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Speaker 1: So, Heather, what about the fact that to the naked eye,

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Speaker 1: to us, the video looks blurry?

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Speaker 13: Oh my goodness, and my terrorism investigations, we were able

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Speaker 13: to identify things that you can enhance this footage. Think

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Speaker 13: about what AI can do for us in forensics. This

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Speaker 13: is a perfect example of using AI to clean up

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Speaker 13: an image, remove the blur or slow it down, and

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Speaker 13: have vehicle experts say, I know that this is likely

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Speaker 13: this make a model probably of this year, and then

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Speaker 13: you go into the records and see who in that

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Speaker 13: area owns vehicles that match that description, and it will

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Speaker 13: really pare down the amount of people that need to

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Speaker 13: be questioned at this time.

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Speaker 1: Todd Shipley joining US digital cybercrime expert former Detective Sergeant

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Speaker 1: Reno pd Todd Shipley, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: How will the fans go about enhancing this video?

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Speaker 14: Well, they're going to take the screenshots out of it

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Speaker 14: and try to figure out what they can find from

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Speaker 14: that one particular shot and identify if there's anything that's

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Speaker 14: usable in that shot.

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Speaker 8: It's a pretty quick shot.

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Speaker 14: That's moving, so it's not something that's going to be

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Speaker 14: an easy thing to do. But they're going to take

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Speaker 14: that video in the stills and try to enhance whatever

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Speaker 14: they can to find anything descriptions, bumper stickers, the license

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Speaker 14: plate obviously, if they can figure any of that out.

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Speaker 14: The year making model obviously is important because then they

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Speaker 14: can start tracking down who owns those in the state

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Speaker 14: and try to figure out, you know what potential list

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Speaker 14: of suspects he might have who owned that kind of car,

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Speaker 14: and then start contacting each one.

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Speaker 1: Guys. This video from our friends at Fox News.

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Speaker 15: Someone out there knows something that can bring her home.

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Speaker 15: Somebody knows.

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Speaker 1: We are begging you to please come forward. Now. We

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Speaker 1: have been given video from Nancy Guthrie's front porch. Look

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Speaker 1: at the purp. He's ready, He's got his hands covered

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Speaker 1: in gloves. Look to be Latex not the thin surgical gloves,

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Speaker 1: thicker latex. He's wearing a backpack. Hey, jump on that.

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Speaker 1: What kind of backpack?

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Speaker 8: Sold?

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Speaker 2: Where?

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Speaker 1: When leaning over? What is he doing? You're about to

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Speaker 1: find out genius pulled some foliage and he's going to

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Speaker 1: try and cover up the camera with it. He's still

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Speaker 1: trying to get it loose. He's still trying to crack

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Speaker 1: it loose, leaving no fingerprints. Even his wrists are covered up.

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Speaker 1: Keep going, keep going, there you go with the foliage.

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Speaker 1: He's trying to cover up the door cam. Watch look

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Speaker 1: at this. He came prepared, full on ski mask, wrists covered,

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Speaker 1: face covered, hands covered, trying to cover the nest camera,

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Speaker 1: the door cam. Keep looking. This could be the break

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Speaker 1: we've all been waiting for. Here he comes walking up

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Speaker 1: and is that a gun he's got tucked into his waistband.

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Speaker 1: Do you see how he's holding his face down, holding

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Speaker 1: the face down so he won't be identified. Check out

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Speaker 1: the back reflectors on the shoulders. Come on, can't we

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Speaker 1: track that? Can we zoom in and get the shoes,

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Speaker 1: We can get his height, We can get so much information. Now,

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Speaker 1: let's see the steals off his face. Bring it in,

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Speaker 1: Bring it in. Let's see the steals. Okay, you know what.

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Speaker 1: She may have had a heart attack. She wakes up

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Speaker 1: and sees that that looks like a white guy to me,

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Speaker 1: a white guy right there. You can't see it. It

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Speaker 1: almost looks feminine. But apparently in some of the pictures

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Speaker 1: you see facial hair over the lip. Keep looking, keep looking.

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Speaker 1: Is that facial hair over the lip? It looks like

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Speaker 1: brunette facial hair. Can't tell exactly. Keep the picture up there,

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Speaker 1: Dave mac does that look like facial hair over the lip?

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Speaker 6: It looks like a mustache to me, Nancy, it absolutely

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Speaker 6: does looks like chin hair as well.

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Speaker 1: Okay, from that, we are learning so much. Again, it

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Speaker 1: almost looks feminine except for what we think could be

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Speaker 1: facial hair. Joining us an all star panel this as

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Speaker 1: we are also learning that buckle or buckle swabs are

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Speaker 1: being taken from the inner circle surrounding Nancy, Guthrie, the

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Speaker 1: pool guy, the gardener, the granny, nannies, the you name it.

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Speaker 1: And if they're getting bugle swabs from them, I'm sure

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Speaker 1: they've already gotten them from the family. Now, somebody please

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Speaker 1: tell me we've strapped everybody up to a polygraph and again.

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Speaker 1: I want to show it again, the guy walking up,

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Speaker 1: the guy, the person the purp walk up. See he's

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Speaker 1: even got his neck covered, thinking we won't be able

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Speaker 1: to identify what color is. This is not just a robbery,

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Speaker 1: just a burglary. We've been going round and around some

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Speaker 1: people chasing their tails. Is this really a kidnapp? I

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Speaker 1: can tell you right now. Nobody goes through all this

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Speaker 1: to run in and grab your VCR. What has he

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Speaker 1: got in the backpack? It is chuck full. What's in there?

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Speaker 1: It's stuffed so much. You can see when he turns around.

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Speaker 1: He's not going in there to take anything. He's taking

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Speaker 1: things in with him. Okay, keep showing it. Let's go

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Speaker 1: to the experts. Straight out to Lee Neubecker joining us

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Speaker 1: out of Chicago, cybersecurity digital forensics expert CEO of Enigma Forensics.

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Speaker 1: What about it, Lee? What do you see? Uh?

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Speaker 9: It's interesting because he hunches down as he goes through

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Speaker 9: the walkway. Had he not hunched down, you could go

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Speaker 9: out site, measure the bricks and get us. I did

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Speaker 9: a little bit of looking and making some assumptions, and

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Speaker 9: I think the guy's probably between five eleven and six

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Speaker 9: foot two. But you can also see a shoe size

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Speaker 9: as he steps on those bricks, like right now, and

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Speaker 9: also the first step, hold.

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Speaker 1: It right there, right there, yes.

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Speaker 9: Stop there. You could back up, and if you knew

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Speaker 9: the exact size of that brick, you could probably tell

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Speaker 9: what his shoe size is. He looks like it appears

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Speaker 9: to be a male based on my review of it,

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Speaker 9: but knowing that his approximate height is approximate weight, and

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Speaker 9: if his hair color truly is black, which it appears

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Speaker 9: to be from the one shot, but it could be brown,

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Speaker 9: it's a definitely something to coal. I thought your comments

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Speaker 9: about having the family members take polygraph was a good idea,

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Speaker 9: but maybe matching up the height of the people to

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Speaker 9: see if they match up at least to shoeshot the

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Speaker 9: shoe size, which doesn't appear to be larger than it

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Speaker 9: is a man.

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Speaker 1: There's no doubt about it being a man. It's a

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Speaker 1: feminine with feminine attributes, but statistically, this is a man,

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Speaker 1: and it's a freaky white man. Statistically that's exactly what

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Speaker 1: it is. Look at what he's doing, Dave Mack, What

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Speaker 1: is he doing right there? Trying to dislodge the door cam.

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Speaker 6: He's looking for something and him reaching down to get

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Speaker 6: the some type of shrubbery. But Nancy, look look at

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Speaker 6: his hands, those gloves. It looks like he's wearing two

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Speaker 6: pairs of gloves. Those things are stretched and that hand

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Speaker 6: is Yes, it does much thicker than it would be

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Speaker 6: for a person of his size, and so I'm thinking

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Speaker 6: that overglove he's got another glove underneath, which kind of

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Speaker 6: goes back to that backpack. Why in the world would

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Speaker 6: anybody come to an event like this with a backpack

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Speaker 6: so filled that, I mean, what else does he need.

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Speaker 6: You're talking about eighty four year old woman who can't

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Speaker 6: walk very far. Why would you need to have your

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Speaker 6: backpack all filled with stuff?

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Speaker 1: You're right, it does look like his clothes, his hands,

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Speaker 1: his legs are stuffed. What about it, Kneebacker.

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Speaker 9: There's several things to notice here. The center of his pupils,

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Speaker 9: he's centered up, looking directly at the nest camp. He's

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Speaker 9: got what appears to be a bit of light in

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Speaker 9: his mouth. You'll see when he's bending over he turns

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Speaker 9: on the flashlight to find the grass that he grabs.

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Speaker 9: But notice the shadow underneath his chin russell as he

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Speaker 9: puts his hand forth. Notice the glove. You can see

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Speaker 9: there's a bright light source coming from the front towards

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Speaker 9: the camera, and as this progresses, you'll see when he's

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Speaker 9: got the camera blocked, you can see that there's a

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Speaker 9: light emitting from the camera. The fact that there's a

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Speaker 9: shadow under his chin tells you that the camera is

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Speaker 9: slightly higher than where his eyes are, if that causes

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Speaker 9: the shadow to cast.

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Speaker 1: Does anyone detect a beard?

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Speaker 16: I think he has here, Nancy. In that one photograph,

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Speaker 16: you can see that he appears right there. You see

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Speaker 16: the dark what appears to be a darker shade there

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Speaker 16: underneath his lip line that could be indicative of facial hair,

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Speaker 16: and then of course the mustache potentially above that. One

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Speaker 16: other thing I think we're learning here is this gentleman

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Speaker 16: is very very comfortable doing what he's doing here.

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Speaker 1: The Guthrie family has been notified about these images that

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Speaker 1: have been shared with the FBI, we are told, but

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Speaker 1: according to the family and law enforcement, so far, no

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Speaker 1: one recognizes who the person could be. Because there was

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Speaker 1: no recognition, no one could identify this guy right here.

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Speaker 1: The FBI posted the images and the videos on a

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Speaker 1: public post in the hope in the prayer someone could

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Speaker 1: recognize the purp or even the clothing, which absolutely could

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Speaker 1: lead to a break in the case. Look carefully on

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Speaker 1: the purpse left strap. An individual has spotted and now

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Speaker 1: publicized a black star on the jacket. Take a look.

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Speaker 1: Let's see it. Iowed very quickly a star shaped pattern

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Speaker 1: in black. Look at this. It was shared widely on

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Speaker 1: Twitter X. What if anything does it mean? It could

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Speaker 1: mean nothing or it could mean a break in the case.

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Speaker 1: This post from trill on X straight out to Dave

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Speaker 1: Matt Crime Story's investigative reporter, Dave, what can you tell

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Speaker 1: me about the star? Because we have gone back and

380
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Speaker 1: reviewed the original video released by Cash Betel, released by

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Speaker 1: law enforcement, and you can see that in the look

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Speaker 1: there it is. Now when it's highlighted and it put

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Speaker 1: on X, you can see much better and you see

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Speaker 1: red stitching, but you can see that.

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Speaker 6: What do you know, Dave, Nancy, you know this has

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Speaker 6: just come up in the last hours and a lot

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Speaker 6: of people are trying to search for that particular star

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Speaker 6: and where it is located on other backpacks and Nancy,

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Speaker 6: you know we've even gone back and forth here about

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Speaker 6: well do you see it?

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Speaker 2: Do you not? It's a catch twenty two.

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Speaker 6: I don't know what is actually on the strap versus

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Speaker 6: the jacket and trying to locate it. You can't see

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Speaker 6: anything there, but right there you can see it on

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Speaker 6: his left strap.

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Speaker 2: Is to be a star.

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Speaker 1: Guys, if you look at different angles, sometimes you can

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Speaker 1: see it, sometimes you cannot see it. Is it real

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Speaker 1: in any event? Eric Drinkerson, this is a type of

400
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Speaker 1: detail that has to be chased down by the FEDS. Right,

401
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 1: every detail can matter.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, and it's mancy.

403
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,159
Speaker 7: It's a relevant detail because it serves two purposes.

404
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Speaker 17: Really.

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Speaker 8: Number one, the uniqueness of that star could help determine

406
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,919
Speaker 8: where that article of clothing or that backpack came from.

407
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:36,880
Speaker 8: That's an important detail. And the second point is it

408
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:42,879
Speaker 8: can help in asking for public assistance. This is somewhat

409
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Speaker 8: unique and it can help some witness or somebody who's

410
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:53,199
Speaker 8: willing to cooperate identify that clothing associated with a person.

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Speaker 8: So either way, I think it's relevant, whether it's a star,

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Speaker 8: whether it's something else, just the fact that it's somewhat

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Speaker 8: unique to that article of clothing.

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Speaker 1: What about it, Brian Fitzgibbons, What if anything can you

415
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 1: do with that? A detail like that can go a

416
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Speaker 1: long way jump.

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Speaker 4: In absolutely, and you know it's gonna help investigators identify.

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Speaker 9: You know, was this a.

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Speaker 4: Piece of clothing that was produced with that star on it?

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Speaker 4: You know that's the brand's logo or whatever, or was

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00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:28,920
Speaker 4: this an aftermarket thing?

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Speaker 2: You know what?

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Speaker 4: Are there embroidery shops and Tucson that have put on

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00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 4: fifty of these for a small business or a school

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Speaker 4: or something related to it. So you know, this will

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Speaker 4: be very identifiable if that is indeed an embroidered star

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Speaker 4: on that jacket.

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Speaker 1: Other video emerges, Let's see it, Dave Matt take a

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Speaker 1: look at this and explain what we're seeing.

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Speaker 6: Dave, go, this is the same porch guy that we've

431
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Speaker 6: been talking about, but this time it's a different place,

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Speaker 6: a different angle, and as you can see, as he walking,

433
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Speaker 6: he has a very specific gait, a very specific stride.

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Speaker 6: Watch as he is walking, he's got something tied around

435
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Speaker 6: his waist. Is that a shirt jacket? This is from again,

436
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,960
Speaker 6: not the same house. We're not talking at the Guthries.

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Speaker 6: It's a different place but in the same general area.

438
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 6: So we've got him walking at night and again see

439
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 6: there we go a very specific stroll. As he's walking

440
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 6: it's odd, just odd to be walking at that time.

441
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:37,640
Speaker 1: Yes, guys, we're getting that because we have been watching

442
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 1: you from how Tech two on X how Tech two

443
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 1: on X Now, Dave, I guess you've gotten your crystal

444
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 1: ball out yet again, and you can tell me without

445
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 1: a doubt that that's the same guy that was on

446
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 1: Nancy Guthries' porch. Oh, I'd have a field day with

447
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 1: you on cross But you actually may be right. Where

448
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 1: are you getting your deduction?

449
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 6: I'm making it up seeing a guy dressed in very

450
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 6: similar outfit to the man on games.

451
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 1: Do you just say you're making it up?

452
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 6: Well, I'm looking at the.

453
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 1: Did you just say you're making it up?

454
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 2: Well? Yeah, I mean I'm making up that. I see

455
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 2: a guy on.

456
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 1: Video, I'm hearing him, mute him, and I'm gonna let

457
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 1: him think about what he just said. Okay. In the meantime,

458
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 1: while Dave is pondering his future straight out to Scott

459
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 1: Ker joining us a digital expert, founding member of Salor

460
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 1: Analysis survey team with the FBI, You have thoughts on that,

461
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 1: and actually, Dave, Matt could very well be right. He

462
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 1: could be right, but I want to hear your analysis.

463
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 18: Well, when we're looking at that video there. You can't

464
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:51,239
Speaker 18: really tell if it's the same guy or not. But

465
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 18: what I don't know is when was that taken? Uh

466
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 18: you know, was it close to near Nancy Cuthrie's house.

467
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 18: Interesting to see after this person walks past the camera

468
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 18: that a police car comes by, so someone called the

469
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,239
Speaker 18: cops on him and maybe he was identified. Is this

470
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 18: one of the homeless encampment people that are walking around

471
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 18: at night that just happened to be passing by this house.

472
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 18: Either way, the important part is is neighbors or people

473
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 18: in the area are providing their camera information to the authorities.

474
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 18: Hopefully not just on X as you said, this gentleman

475
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 18: had posted, but they're posted and giving it to law

476
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 18: enforcement so they can piece it together just to see

477
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 18: if it's relevant or not.

478
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 1: Okay, let's see him walk by again. Let me see

479
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 1: that portion where he is walking by, if you can

480
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 1: rack it back up there he goes. Look at that.

481
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 1: Is he wearing a hoodie or is he wearing a

482
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 1: baseball cap? He definitely has on a backpack with reflective

483
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 1: lights on it. I can see them and they're on

484
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 1: the shoulders just like the porch guy. Is he Dave Mac,

485
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: you're out of You're off probation. Let's say look at

486
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 1: that again, Dave. Look at this is the jacket he's

487
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 1: got wrapped around his waist, the one that he's later

488
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 1: wearing in the Nancy Guthrie porch video. I mean, you

489
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 1: may not be had from Dave Matt, but you're still

490
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 1: on double secret probation. Mac for saying you made something up,

491
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 1: But what else are you discerning from it? Very quickly?

492
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 6: I know, I was just really trying to point out

493
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 6: Nancy when we're looking at this video from the same

494
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 6: neighborhood at night, as like you're pointing out you've got

495
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 6: a police car actually turning around in the neighborhood. What

496
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 6: are the odds that we've got multiple people on any

497
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 6: night other than Halloween walking in a neighborhood at night,

498
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 6: dressed up in a very similar outfit to the person

499
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 6: we see later at one forty seven am or thereabouts

500
00:31:57,920 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 6: on Nancy Guthrie's front porch.

501
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 15: To whoever has her or knows where she is. But

502
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 15: it's never too late, and you're not lost oi alone,

503
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 15: and it is never too late to do the right thing.

504
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace video that has emerged online

505
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 1: on social we see yet another video that has been posted.

506
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 1: It appears to be a white or Hispanic male on

507
00:32:55,520 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 1: the front porch, reportedly from a home in the vicinity

508
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 1: of Nancy Guthries's home where she was kidnapped. This is

509
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 1: an example of one of the many many videos reportedly

510
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 1: caught on door cam surveillance cam and posted. This as

511
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 1: a composite has been released. But first, back to the

512
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 1: video we just showed. Let's see that again. This guy

513
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 1: featured in this video has not been named as a

514
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 1: suspect a person of interest in anything in relation to

515
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 1: Nancy Guthrie's case. Tammy Baller joining US DNA crime scene consultant,

516
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 1: crime scene investigation and reconstruction expert, law enforcement liaison at

517
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 1: AUTHRAM Labs, and former DNA criminalist in the San die

518
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 1: Go Police Department crime Lab. Timmy, it's really important that

519
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:08,839
Speaker 1: we don't have a wild goose chase for the wrong guy.

520
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:09,839
Speaker 2: Right.

521
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,880
Speaker 1: But please, everybody keep sending your videos, your door cams,

522
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 1: your everything, because you never know when you're gonna hit.

523
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 1: All Right, this guy we're showing you, let's see him again.

524
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 1: No one is naming him as a defendant. Or a

525
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:33,280
Speaker 1: purp or a co defendant in this case, Timmy Ballard,

526
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 1: why is it so important that the wrong person is

527
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 1: not named?

528
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 17: You do not want to follow a pathway and lose

529
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:48,759
Speaker 17: valuable time. So at this point, excluding somebody is as

530
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 17: important as including somebody. So whatever information that you can get,

531
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 17: whatever items of evidence you can get to include or

532
00:34:56,560 --> 00:35:00,840
Speaker 17: exclude somebody, is very, very critical. It's time.

533
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 1: Door cams, surveillance cams, yard cams, hunting cams, wildlife cams

534
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 1: are being combed at this hour. Much of that video

535
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 1: is being posted online. Much of it is being sent

536
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 1: to the FBI. They want it. We keep hearing about

537
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 1: the tens of thousands of tips that are pouring in.

538
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 1: That's their job. They have an entire and elite crew

539
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 1: set up joining me Scott Aiker, Digital Forends, It's expert

540
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 1: founding member of the Cellular Analysis Survey Team cast with

541
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:38,319
Speaker 1: the FBI. They are the people, the women and men

542
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 1: you can thank for pulling up that front door video.

543
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 1: Let's see it because it's amazing. Remember Sheriff Nanos said

544
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,719
Speaker 1: at the beginning, Oh shucks, everybody, it's it's just such

545
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 1: a terrible coinky ink that Nancy Guthrie did not have

546
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:56,239
Speaker 1: a subscription to her Nest because if she had paid

547
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 1: that extra eight ninety nine a month, then we have

548
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 1: the videos of the perp. Darny, darn, darn. The FBI

549
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 1: was finally invited in. They cannot just come in unrequested,

550
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:15,879
Speaker 1: and they used their cast team to comb all of

551
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:21,880
Speaker 1: the data points, literally trillions of data points of information

552
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 1: through Google who owns Nest. Guthrie had a Nest cam,

553
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 1: a Nest system, and out of all of those trillions

554
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 1: of points of data, they find Nancy Guthrie's little idy

555
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 1: biddy dorcam and they resurrect this. It's amazing. So Scott,

556
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 1: who is wading through all of these videos like the

557
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:57,719
Speaker 1: one we're just saying, guy not a suspect. That's an

558
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 1: example of some of the video that are being sent in.

559
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 1: Who is doing it?

560
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:10,720
Speaker 19: Well, You've got probably a hundred analysts in the command

561
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 19: post and some being working remotely going through all these

562
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 19: tips and ring camera and Nest camera video to try

563
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 19: to collate and figure out which is important, which is

564
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 19: not important, and kind of matching up movement of people

565
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 19: through different cameras, just like this Nest camera. That cast

566
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:36,799
Speaker 19: was able to get We had a good relationship with

567
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 19: Google over the years dealing with their location information, so

568
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 19: when we heard that the Nest camera was being used,

569
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 19: we were able to contact those partners and they were

570
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 19: able to pull that video. So this is fantastic that

571
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 19: we got this. There's going to be tons of people

572
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,920
Speaker 19: going through all the videos and tips that people are

573
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:02,479
Speaker 19: providing from their cameras in the neighborhood for that whole month,

574
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 19: as we've heard that the police department and FBI are

575
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 19: asking for a video from a month almost a month back,

576
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 19: so it's going to be a ton of work.

577
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:14,319
Speaker 1: I want to move now off of the video of

578
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 1: possibly an unrelated guy on a porch that somebody sent

579
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 1: in reportedly from Nancy Guthrie's neighborhood. There he is on top,

580
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 1: not a suspect, not a person of interest, but whoever

581
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:31,320
Speaker 1: sent it is well intentioned. This is some USA news

582
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:35,400
Speaker 1: HQ on X that's where it was posted at this hour.

583
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 1: We have a composite. Dave Mac joining me. Let's look

584
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:44,439
Speaker 1: directly at the composite. Don't dilute it with any other

585
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 1: video or photo. Please, let's look directly at the composite.

586
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:52,399
Speaker 1: Dave Mac tell me about the composite from where did

587
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 1: it come?

588
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:59,719
Speaker 6: Well, Nancy, the FBI created this composite. When we saw

589
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 6: them putting up the tent to do measurements in that

590
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 6: entry way, they were looking for ways to figure out height, weight,

591
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:09,440
Speaker 6: and everything else. They've taken all of their knowledge of

592
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 6: breaking down the video and as we just mentioned a

593
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:15,280
Speaker 6: minute ago, we don't know what we're not being shown. Okay,

594
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:18,239
Speaker 6: what we're being shown is one thing, But they, being

595
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 6: the FBI and the Sheriff's Department, probably have a whole

596
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:23,359
Speaker 6: lot more than their sharing with us.

597
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:26,279
Speaker 2: But this composite sketch is very specific.

598
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 6: Look at the facial hair, Nancy, and how we all

599
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:34,359
Speaker 6: can you and thought he's got a mustache, possibly a goatee. Well,

600
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 6: this is a very specific look also very specific hairling.

601
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:42,760
Speaker 6: And we know that the person seen on the porch

602
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:45,799
Speaker 6: wearing a hat covering his head.

603
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 2: And so they've been able to come up with this based.

604
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 6: On all of the knowledge they have and all of

605
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:55,479
Speaker 6: the background in developing a composite. Look at that right there,

606
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 6: you've got that nit hat pulled down tight. Yet they're

607
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:01,279
Speaker 6: able to come up with the type of hair they

608
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 6: expect to see on this individual a lot of work

609
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 6: going into this and using everything possible to come up

610
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:11,400
Speaker 6: with height, weight, and again the actual look of the individual.

611
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,319
Speaker 1: So let me understand this, Dave mac This is not

612
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 1: an official sketch. This is not released by the FBI,

613
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:21,839
Speaker 1: and this is not released by Nanas.

614
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:22,879
Speaker 2: No, it is.

615
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 6: A retired prime sketch artist out of Houston named Lois Gibson.

616
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 6: And she did this unofficially, not asked or invited, just

617
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 6: did it out of her own background and knowledge and

618
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 6: wrote this and drew the sketch. The FBI has given

619
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:44,279
Speaker 6: us the basic parameters of the height of a male

620
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:46,720
Speaker 6: who is five foot nine to five foot ten, average

621
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:50,360
Speaker 6: build and wearing the black twenty five literer Ozark trail

622
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 6: hiker packed backpack.

623
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 15: If you see anything, you hear anything, if there's anything

624
00:40:56,680 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 15: at all that seems strange to you that you report

625
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:08,319
Speaker 15: to law enforcement. We are an hour of desperation.

626
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:10,920
Speaker 8: And we need drop.

627
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:21,359
Speaker 1: We learn A slowed down look at the porch guy

628
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:26,440
Speaker 1: reveals what appears to be a cell phone display in

629
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:30,720
Speaker 1: the background. Is that why Sheriff Nanos, in his wisdom,

630
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 1: continues to say there is an accomplice? Also, do we

631
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:41,399
Speaker 1: see identifying markers of a walkie talkie peeking out of

632
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 1: the porch Guy's pocket. I want to identify what appears

633
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 1: to be and it seems to be convincing. In a

634
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 1: slow mo of the porch guy video, there appears to

635
00:41:56,480 --> 00:42:03,320
Speaker 1: be a cell phone display off to the side. Now

636
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 1: I want to see that still isolated, still, and I

637
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 1: want to see it in slow mo. So if I

638
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 1: could get the control room to show that as I

639
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:16,880
Speaker 1: go to the guests with me and All Star panel

640
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:19,240
Speaker 1: to make sense of what we are learning right now.

641
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 1: Straight out to Dave Matt, Crime Stories investigative reporter, Wow,

642
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,319
Speaker 1: you really have to slow it down to see it,

643
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:34,960
Speaker 1: Dave Matt. Should I believe Nano's or my lying eyes?

644
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:37,399
Speaker 1: That looks like a cell phone display, Dave.

645
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:40,440
Speaker 6: Looks like one to me too, Nancy, And yeah, you

646
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 6: got to slow it down, but you can see something

647
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 6: clearly there. It's rectangular, you know, it looks like a phone.

648
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:49,520
Speaker 6: Which this is something we've been pointing to all along

649
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 6: that there's got to be help here and check that out. Look,

650
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:54,440
Speaker 6: you're seeing it right there on the edge of the screen.

651
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:55,240
Speaker 2: Boom.

652
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 6: That is not the guy covering up the lens. That

653
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 6: is somebody else with that camera or phone.

654
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 1: Rather joining me now, veteran, try a lawyer, Josh colesrud

655
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:11,000
Speaker 1: from this jurisdiction, currently criminal defense attorney, former federal prosecutor,

656
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:15,319
Speaker 1: founder of Coles Root Law Offices. Josh, I actually don't

657
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:20,320
Speaker 1: need an esteemed founder a cellular announce the survey team

658
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:25,320
Speaker 1: to tell me what I'm seeing. Do you see that, Josh, yes, ma'am.

659
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:30,080
Speaker 3: It looks like there is something protruding out of somebody's

660
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 3: pocket that resembles a phone. And this could be the

661
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 3: smoking gun that we're all waiting for. I mean, this

662
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 3: cellular phone, as we all know, has so much data

663
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:43,399
Speaker 3: that if that phone is on, it's only a matter

664
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:47,840
Speaker 3: of time before the FBI gets a hold of the information.

665
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 3: Hopefully we're able to identify a suspect soon.

666
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 1: Scott Iiker based on the shape event, based on where

667
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 1: we're seeing it. Thank you for circling it. That's perfect,

668
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:04,440
Speaker 1: Thank you, Control room. How could it be anything else?

669
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:08,359
Speaker 18: That's tough to I do see the kind of rectangular

670
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 18: flash of possibly a cell phone. Is it a reflection

671
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 18: from something else?

672
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 10: Is it?

673
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:19,719
Speaker 18: You know? I have no idea what it is. I

674
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:22,120
Speaker 18: give you the benefit of the doubt that that could

675
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:24,799
Speaker 18: be a cell phone, and we're assuming that they're going

676
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:27,319
Speaker 18: to have a cell phone anyway, it really doesn't matter

677
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 18: whether we see it in the camera. We're going to

678
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:29,920
Speaker 18: assume they have one.

679
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:33,640
Speaker 1: No, but this is a second person. It's not the

680
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 1: person struggling with the foliage Scott. It's a second person

681
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,440
Speaker 1: with a cell phone. I need to see it again,

682
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:45,040
Speaker 1: please in slow mo if you can, because some people

683
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:48,879
Speaker 1: suggest maybe it's the reflective backpack. I don't see how

684
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 1: that's possible right there at that juncture. Dave Matt, what

685
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:55,400
Speaker 1: do you think about the possibility it's the reflection on

686
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 1: the backpack, because it seems to show up and then

687
00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:00,279
Speaker 1: go away, and that wouldn't be so if it were

688
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 1: the backpack.

689
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:02,879
Speaker 2: I think it really is.

690
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 6: When you look at where the suspect his standing, okay,

691
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:09,959
Speaker 6: and where he's moving his hand, the backpack is going

692
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 6: to be more towards the center of the screen, so

693
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 6: you know, because he's using his left hand on the

694
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:18,880
Speaker 6: shrubbery there to try to cover the lens. So to me,

695
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 6: it looks like this is something clearly being moved by

696
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 6: someone else on the other side of the suspect.

697
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 2: Here it doesn't you know that's what I'm seeing anyway.

698
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:31,080
Speaker 1: Okay, Cole's Ruth. Have you looked at this and what

699
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:32,879
Speaker 1: if so tell me your analysis.

700
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:36,920
Speaker 3: You know, my first thought is this couldn't be the

701
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 3: backpack because it would be obstructed by the body. I mean,

702
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:45,120
Speaker 3: the backpack is on the back and when you look

703
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:49,400
Speaker 3: at this, it just it resembles what any layman would

704
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:52,279
Speaker 3: say as a cell phone and it needs to be

705
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:54,080
Speaker 3: investigated one way or the other.

706
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 1: Well, the reason I don't think it's the backpack, Josh,

707
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 1: if you look at the backpack, there's also reflective strips

708
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:05,000
Speaker 1: right here in the front, So I think that that

709
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:09,080
Speaker 1: is what some people are talking about. But the issue

710
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:12,439
Speaker 1: is played again. Please when you see it pop up,

711
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:19,360
Speaker 1: it's disjointed from the actor. It's disjointed from him. It

712
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:24,200
Speaker 1: darts in as he's already acting. See what I mean.

713
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:28,799
Speaker 1: It's it's not connected to his movements, which makes me

714
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 1: think it's not the backpack. I want you to see this,

715
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:35,440
Speaker 1: everybody on the panel, take a look at this. It

716
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:38,839
Speaker 1: looks as if a walky talkie I'll just call it

717
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 1: an antenna for lack of a better word, is protruding

718
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:47,760
Speaker 1: from the porch guy's right pocket. Look at that, I think, Okay,

719
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:50,360
Speaker 1: that looks yeah, that's his left pocket. Look at that

720
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 1: left pocket. Can we can we zoom in on that

721
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 1: again and if you could give me a steal and

722
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 1: enlarge it. It looks like the antenna of a walkie talkie,

723
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 1: which further signifies an accomplice. Okay, straight back out to

724
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 1: veteran trial lawyer joining us tonight, Josh colesrut. He's in

725
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:20,359
Speaker 1: this jurisdiction, good or bad that there is an accomplice.

726
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 1: I say good because it's easier to find two people

727
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:25,919
Speaker 1: than it is to find one person. Plus, the more

728
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:29,840
Speaker 1: people that are involved, the more likely somebody's gonna blab

729
00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:32,920
Speaker 1: or the more likely. Isn't it always the way, Josh?

730
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 1: It's the girlfriend, the wife, the mother, the ex, the

731
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:40,799
Speaker 1: little low lady that lives next door to blurt out, hey,

732
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 1: wait a minute, I saw fill in the blank. The

733
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:46,640
Speaker 1: more people you have involved, the more likely the case

734
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:48,760
Speaker 1: is going to be solved. So if there's a walkie

735
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:51,440
Speaker 1: talking in play, that tells me there is somebody.

736
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:54,720
Speaker 3: Else exactly, and you know there's an old saying loose

737
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 3: lips sink ships. And the more people you have involved,

738
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:02,560
Speaker 3: the more likely somebody is going to open their mouth.

739
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 3: They're going to brag about it to their girlfriend, They're

740
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:09,760
Speaker 3: going to feel maybe they're left out and they want money,

741
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:13,960
Speaker 3: who knows uh. The more people involved, the greater the

742
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:19,040
Speaker 3: likelihood that this conspiracy is going to be exposed.

743
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:23,839
Speaker 1: Coming up back to you, Iiker, what about the possibility

744
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:26,960
Speaker 1: that a walkie t that is a walkie talkie portruding

745
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 1: from his pocket? What does that mean to you Evidentiarily, well.

746
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 18: It's obviously a little more pre planned and more complicated

747
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:42,279
Speaker 18: than we thought initially when we see the you know,

748
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 18: the perpetrators actually planning this a little bit better. If

749
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:48,480
Speaker 18: they're planning to have walkie talkies, even though the guy

750
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:51,240
Speaker 18: kind of looked fumbling around on the front porch, maybe

751
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:53,720
Speaker 18: these guys are a little more sophisticated than we thought,

752
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 18: using walkie talkies to communicate for you know, security, for themselves,

753
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:02,040
Speaker 18: to say, hey, there's someone walking down the street, get

754
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:04,520
Speaker 18: out of there, or something like that. It means to

755
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:07,200
Speaker 18: me that if that is a walkie talkie, that we're gonna,

756
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:10,840
Speaker 18: you know, have to be a little more concerned that

757
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 18: these guys are more professional than we thought.

758
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 15: We need to know without it doubt that she's alive

759
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:24,560
Speaker 15: and that you have her. We want to hear from you,

760
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:30,640
Speaker 15: and we are ready to listen. Please reach out to us.

761
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:39,040
Speaker 1: I want you to take a look at video. It

762
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:43,920
Speaker 1: is from a Ring neighborhood app and it shows a

763
00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:48,879
Speaker 1: guy in a similar outfit with not one, but two backpacks.

764
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:52,320
Speaker 1: Now watch this guy there, he is he's not dropping

765
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 1: the backpack in his left hand. He's holding it over

766
00:49:56,160 --> 00:49:58,320
Speaker 1: as if he's he's trying to get through that gate

767
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 1: and he can't do but significance. This is around one am.

768
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:10,200
Speaker 1: As I recall the night that Nancy is kidnapped, and

769
00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:14,319
Speaker 1: this is near her home. What is he doing? Watch him?

770
00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:19,719
Speaker 1: He's not going to either car, He's walking off. Who

771
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:24,760
Speaker 1: is this guy? Dave Matt with me Crime Story's investigative reporter.

772
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:28,239
Speaker 1: By the way, this is from iamy Lee on X

773
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:32,800
Speaker 1: Keep it on the video. I want to keep looking

774
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:35,920
Speaker 1: at the video. Dave Matt, explain to me everything you

775
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 1: know about this.

776
00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:39,959
Speaker 6: Well, we know that this was at one fifty three

777
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:43,640
Speaker 6: am Nancy on the same at the same time that

778
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:47,920
Speaker 6: we suspect Nancy Guthrie was being or getting ready to

779
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:51,279
Speaker 6: be roused out of bed and what we're watching right there.

780
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:52,279
Speaker 2: You're watching the guy.

781
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:55,840
Speaker 6: He's walking away like he's going back into a garage area.

782
00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 6: But Nancy, when he comes back, you'll see the FBI

783
00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:02,719
Speaker 6: already has this video because these backpacks. First of all,

784
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:06,120
Speaker 6: why is he wearing one and carrying another. He appears

785
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:08,240
Speaker 6: to like drag it over the top of the fence

786
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:11,000
Speaker 6: like he's looking for a latch somehow to get through

787
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:15,080
Speaker 6: that gate. Me talking to somebody on the other side

788
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:16,719
Speaker 6: of the gate, like do this do that?

789
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:18,720
Speaker 2: His backpack does.

790
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:21,600
Speaker 6: Have reflectors on it, And that's the really attractive part

791
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:24,560
Speaker 6: of this from the standpoint of comparison to what we

792
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:28,319
Speaker 6: saw on Nancy Guthrie's porch. But coming back over that

793
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:31,320
Speaker 6: gate with that bag again, and you see he's holding

794
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:33,400
Speaker 6: it at a high level as he comes over or

795
00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:36,680
Speaker 6: goes back. Not sure what he's carrying in there, but

796
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:40,680
Speaker 6: there's look at one fifty three am. What is a

797
00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:44,880
Speaker 6: grown man doing in that spot at that time wearing

798
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:48,200
Speaker 6: a backpack and carrying another and dangling it over a fence.

799
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:54,120
Speaker 1: The other guy had two backpacks. Look at the porch guy,

800
00:51:54,280 --> 00:52:00,040
Speaker 1: the intruder that took Nancy Guthrie in one photo. He

801
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:07,640
Speaker 1: doesn't yet have a backpack. The other guy had two backpacks.

802
00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:16,800
Speaker 1: Then the porch guy has a backpack. This is all

803
00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:23,280
Speaker 1: happening at the same time, within the same twenty critical minutes.

804
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:28,920
Speaker 1: The backpack he's handling is stuffed to the gills. He

805
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:33,319
Speaker 1: leaves with the backpack stuffed to the gills. Now back

806
00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:36,759
Speaker 1: to the porch guy please. That is from iamy lee

807
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:41,360
Speaker 1: on X that was posted on the neighborhood ring app.

808
00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:45,520
Speaker 1: Let's get the video of him where we can see

809
00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:51,840
Speaker 1: his backpack and it also is stuffed to the gills.

810
00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:56,280
Speaker 1: I want to see his backpack when he turns around

811
00:52:56,600 --> 00:53:01,719
Speaker 1: is completely stuffed. How far away from Nancy's home is this?

812
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:03,560
Speaker 2: Five miles Nancy.

813
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:10,480
Speaker 1: There is also video circulating from February two. What's interesting

814
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:14,080
Speaker 1: about this as it looks like the same guy's legs,

815
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:20,520
Speaker 1: the stocky thighs, there's the backpack, similar leggings. But I

816
00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:24,759
Speaker 1: don't see the significance this from I aiming lee on

817
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 1: X because isn't this February two.

818
00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:33,080
Speaker 6: The significance is that we've got somebody that is seemingly

819
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 6: matching some of the description you mentioned.

820
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:37,680
Speaker 2: The legs in a similar type outfit.

821
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:42,240
Speaker 6: Again, wearing a backpack and he's out checking cars.

822
00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:44,160
Speaker 2: Is he trying to find one that's unlike that he

823
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:44,720
Speaker 2: can steal.

824
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:49,919
Speaker 6: He's just seemingly walking aimlessly trying to open a car door.

825
00:53:50,239 --> 00:53:52,799
Speaker 6: But again, you do have kind of a walk to

826
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:55,719
Speaker 6: look at. You've got a guy wearing a backpack. I

827
00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:57,880
Speaker 6: don't know if this is something unique to Tucson, but

828
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:01,000
Speaker 6: as an adult male, I don't wear backpack and I

829
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:03,759
Speaker 6: don't know anybody that does, so it just seems like

830
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:08,279
Speaker 6: an odd thing to happen twenty four hours after the

831
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:10,800
Speaker 6: time we're talking about Nancy Guthrie being home.

832
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:14,680
Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything about the

833
00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:18,440
Speaker 1: disappearance of Nancy Guthrie, please dial toll free eight hundred

834
00:54:18,719 --> 00:54:23,080
Speaker 1: two two five five three two four eight hundred two

835
00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:26,919
Speaker 1: two five five three two four, or if you wish

836
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:31,200
Speaker 1: to remain anonymous five two zero eight eight two seven

837
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:35,880
Speaker 1: four sixty three five two zero eight eight two seven

838
00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:41,040
Speaker 1: four six three. There is a one point two million

839
00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:48,480
Speaker 1: dollar reward combined tonight one point two million dollar reward

840
00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:53,280
Speaker 1: for information leading to the whereabouts of Nancy Guthrie. Nancy

841
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:54,920
Speaker 1: Gray signing off, good night, friend

842
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:00,120
Speaker 9: Y