Speaker 1: They around the NFL podcast release that takes cractly from
Speaker 1: the Chris Westley podcast studio. Everybody wants it. Why won't
Speaker 1: you just get the people what they won't don't have it?
Speaker 1: It's around the NFL. I am Dan Hansa, Scott Heroes here,
Speaker 1: Greg rosehal Mark Sessler, and back in the fourth chair
Speaker 1: the dude, Patrick Clayban. What's up, Bud? What's up? Guys?
Speaker 1: Good to be here. That good to be here with you.
Speaker 1: It's great have you. Connie was supposed to be back
Speaker 1: this week, but she got pulled into a type of
Speaker 1: nefarious park Avenue event.
Speaker 2: I mean, what did she She's hosting some sort of
Speaker 2: mysterious event in the big up.
Speaker 1: If it's if it's costing our show at Connie Fox Wednesday,
Speaker 1: it's farious to me it's not costing it.
Speaker 3: What Well, sure, we've got a whole different show Clay
Speaker 3: on Wednesday.
Speaker 1: Well let me transition to that. So, mister contrarian, Yes
Speaker 1: we don't have Connie, but the fact that we can
Speaker 1: have Patrick here is even got a blessing. Not that
Speaker 1: you were a backup, but we announced previously Collin would
Speaker 1: be here, so it'd be weird. Just all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: Patrick is here instead.
Speaker 2: We've got an incredible stable and we're just reversatile and Patrick.
Speaker 1: We keep it pretty tight in terms of who's in
Speaker 1: the regular fourth chair. It's a it's a hollowed spot.
Speaker 1: It's clay today is Patrick's.
Speaker 4: Patrick theme song. I think it's time.
Speaker 1: Do we have any? Have any been sent in? Do
Speaker 1: we have any? Patrick?
Speaker 5: Patrick put out a formal request.
Speaker 1: Here's a formal request our vibrant Gmail account. Ye, what
Speaker 1: is the Gmail account? Is it?
Speaker 5: Is it the ATM? It's the ATM podcast. Let me
Speaker 5: you know what I should probably know.
Speaker 1: There's literally like an abbey road of patri just being
Speaker 1: sent to the wrong email. All right, Well, while our
Speaker 1: producer Eric works on that, we have some breaking news
Speaker 1: that landed just as we're about to start. And that's
Speaker 1: the way I like it, because too many times we
Speaker 1: got banged the other way. We finished recording and then oh,
Speaker 1: Pete Carroll got fired. Well not this time. The Seattle
Speaker 1: Seahawks are moving on from Pete Carroll as they're head coach,
Speaker 1: reported by the Pell Raiser and elsewhere. He as of
Speaker 1: right now, the way it's being spun and there's a
Speaker 1: press conference coming up later today. Carol will remain in
Speaker 1: the organization, but not as the head coach. So Pete Carroll,
Speaker 1: who has had an incredible run in Seattle fourteen years,
Speaker 1: which you know in the NFL you might as well
Speaker 1: say one hundred years, one hundred and thirty seven and
Speaker 1: eighty nine and one record. That's an over a six
Speaker 1: hundred winning percentage. I coached nineteen playoff GAMESO went to
Speaker 1: the Super Bowl back to back years, very nearly, we
Speaker 1: don't need to litigate this, but very nearly went back
Speaker 1: to back Super Bowl championships. But that was one of
Speaker 1: the most memorable teams of this century, the legion of
Speaker 1: Boom Seahawks with Russell Wilson and that incredible defense. He
Speaker 1: is now seventy two years old. Greg Rosenthal and you
Speaker 1: had been kind of poking around on this one for
Speaker 1: a week or so. Cecler and I were trying to
Speaker 1: figure out who's texting with with those thumbs.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's a short list of candidates, right, We
Speaker 2: didn't know probably Ian.
Speaker 1: But Greg, you say, because I had mentioned it again
Speaker 1: this before we start taping to you was common sense
Speaker 1: there was. It was more about putting a puzzle together
Speaker 1: on that was that I had no information.
Speaker 3: I was trying to find out what people would say
Speaker 3: behind the scenes.
Speaker 1: What do you think Ian? By the way, when he
Speaker 1: gets a greg text, what is Ian's first.
Speaker 2: Reaction, He's absolutely overjoyed because it's it's the connection is
Speaker 2: very rich, it's very story.
Speaker 3: I think he has no feelings whatsoever, just like all
Speaker 3: of his others correction.
Speaker 4: And I love him for it.
Speaker 3: He's a defensive coach in the defense has been bad
Speaker 3: for seven years. They're stuck in this middle ground where
Speaker 3: you could argue, well, their floor is very high with
Speaker 3: Pete Carrible. Maybe they're ceilings very low with Pete Carroll,
Speaker 3: and that the things he said he's gonna solve year
Speaker 3: after year like aren't getting solved. He's been cycling through
Speaker 3: defensive coordinators. He's putting a lot of resources in that,
Speaker 3: and who knows. I love that they are announcing it
Speaker 3: as an amical agreement that his role will quote evolve
Speaker 3: to remain with the organization as an advisor. We maybe
Speaker 3: aren't going to get the full story on that or no,
Speaker 3: And I don't really care. Like they're both grown ups
Speaker 3: here and he is walking away with class. He's going
Speaker 3: to have a press conference afterwards, which is not always
Speaker 3: the case, certainly with a coach they'll let go and
Speaker 3: he's a legend there and he deserves to be treated,
Speaker 3: and maybe he really is just wanting to walk away.
Speaker 3: There was some whispers about that too. I'm curious, like,
Speaker 3: who is making this decision exactly. Obviously it's Jody Allen
Speaker 3: to start with, but I think if John Schneider, the
Speaker 3: GM who has been there as long as Pete Carroll
Speaker 3: and also as a Super Bowl title, is still there
Speaker 3: to help hire the next head coach, and if that
Speaker 3: the next head coach is Dan Quinn, which about seventeen
Speaker 3: different NFL insiders have already put out there is the
Speaker 3: prime candidate, and that maybe this is part of it,
Speaker 3: is that they feel like they're in a window here
Speaker 3: where the coach that they want is going to be available.
Speaker 4: We want to take them before he goes anywhere else.
Speaker 3: If Schneider's still there, that will tell me maybe it
Speaker 3: is a little bit more of a pushout situation. But
Speaker 3: either way, one of the best head coaches I've.
Speaker 2: Seen in the NFL, and I guess, like you know,
Speaker 2: if it came down to some version of a power struggle,
Speaker 2: a soft power struggle. I mean Pete Carroll won the
Speaker 2: power struggle essentially over Russell Wilson, and that was the
Speaker 2: last big sort of battle there. You know, if you're
Speaker 2: working coach in GM for this long as long as
Speaker 2: they did, and they made it work, it's natural that
Speaker 2: a relationship's going to start to wear down some point professionally.
Speaker 1: And so I mean it was.
Speaker 2: Pete Carroll that just a couple of days ago said
Speaker 2: pretty clearly I want to come back and coach this team.
Speaker 2: So something changed over the PA last couple of days.
Speaker 2: But he's not a young guy, although he seems his
Speaker 2: energy's very young, Like you know, maybe this or natural
Speaker 2: part of Pete Carroll that's open to this next step.
Speaker 2: But he's also very good with the media, and I
Speaker 2: don't interview to coach that I liked better honestly.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I love Carrol too. He's incredible. I remember
Speaker 1: being on the rooftop in downtown LA for a charity
Speaker 1: event the year they drafted Russell Wilson, and I'll never
Speaker 1: forget like he was very nice dude and open about
Speaker 1: how much he loved Wilson. And and my mom obviously
Speaker 1: is a big fan of Pete Carroll right Gampac to
Speaker 1: his jet's days. But he said it. He thinks he's hot.
Speaker 1: She thought he was extremely He's okay with that. He's
Speaker 1: very secure. My father is very secure about yeah, the marriage.
Speaker 1: But Pete is, yeah, it's good. They don't exist in
Speaker 1: the number one competition, right, Let's just hope my dad
Speaker 1: doesn't want Pete coming east. Put it that way. But
Speaker 1: when Pete says Patrick the other day is like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm not worried about anything. Like Pete knew what was
Speaker 1: going on behind the scenes, and he was that was
Speaker 1: just the answer he gave.
Speaker 6: Well, And I also think it's it's one of those
Speaker 6: situations where he's telling you before everybody else tells you
Speaker 6: that if something changes regarding my coaching status with the
Speaker 6: Seattle Seahawks, it was not a decision of mine. Right
Speaker 6: when he says like, I love my job, I love
Speaker 6: his team, he did acknowledge that he needed he said
Speaker 6: he needed to do some things better. I get it's
Speaker 6: a similar question with a lot of these coaching changes
Speaker 6: that the Chicago Bears are better on third down, on
Speaker 6: offense and defense on Sunday, are the Seahawks still making
Speaker 6: a change with the head coaching position at the end
Speaker 6: of the season. Well not this week, right, But is
Speaker 6: this like a scenario where it's like, ah, you know
Speaker 6: this has to be it with Pete Carroll, the direction doesn't.
Speaker 3: Right If they don't lose the tie break, they literally
Speaker 3: have the same records as the Packers.
Speaker 6: So again, it's it's one of those things like is
Speaker 6: this a is this a real long term decision? But
Speaker 6: as Greg pointed out, there have been long term problems
Speaker 6: in trying to get solutions to them, and Pete hasn't
Speaker 6: made able to find them.
Speaker 1: So like, what's what's changing and get those Here's what
Speaker 1: I'm fascinated by the idea of, Okay, if he's going
Speaker 1: upstairs and into some type of nebulous role or an
Speaker 1: active role, I don't know what it would be. But
Speaker 1: if it's more like a Bruce arians with the Bucks
Speaker 1: type situation, is Pete ready to go into the sunset?
Speaker 1: Now he's seventy two and he's the oldest coach in
Speaker 1: the league, and obviously you don't see many coaches go
Speaker 1: this far. But you know, listen to the President of
Speaker 1: the United States is eighty one. Does I wonder what
Speaker 1: his market would be if indeed this went in a
Speaker 1: different direction. Are there teams that want Pete Carroll? Would
Speaker 1: he be a hot in demand name, whether it was
Speaker 1: this year or maybe a year from now. That is interesting.
Speaker 2: I mean you can pull like an al Pacino end
Speaker 2: of any given Sunday and wind up somewhere else because
Speaker 2: his age, to me, has nothing to do with the
Speaker 2: Pete Carroll that we know.
Speaker 1: Like, I don't care that he's seventy two. I mean,
Speaker 1: check out that. What was that dramatic win they had
Speaker 1: what week sixteen in primetime? The guy looks like he's
Speaker 1: forty eight years old. He's so chipper and said by
Speaker 1: and he loves what he's doing. I just something that
Speaker 1: that doesn't compute about this, that he's going upstairs.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm with you, because, yeah, if that Cowboys game
Speaker 3: had gone a little differently, if that Rams game, which
Speaker 3: I really feel like was the turning point for both
Speaker 3: those teams. Not a memorable game, but a game that
Speaker 3: the Seahawks really outplayed the Rams and kind of stepped
Speaker 3: stubbed their toe at the very end coming out of
Speaker 3: the Rams by I think they got the Rams to
Speaker 3: like four and six, five and six, and the Seahawks
Speaker 3: that started their tailspin because their schedule got so much harder,
Speaker 3: they could have made the playoffs. He's still a very
Speaker 3: good head coach. It's interesting to look back on his
Speaker 3: at his run. He doesn't get the pub Mike Tomlin
Speaker 3: does because he did have that seven to ten season
Speaker 3: in Russell Wilson's last year. But otherwise they've had a
Speaker 3: winning record every year since twenty and twelve. And you think,
Speaker 3: while they never got back to those heights when they
Speaker 3: made those back to back Super Bowls, but they did
Speaker 3: win ten games, ten games, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, they
Speaker 3: sneaky underperformed in the playoffs, which is very frustrated when
Speaker 3: you're a very good team. And like Mike McCarthy's Packers
Speaker 3: know this too. Ten playoff appearances, seven divisional round appearances,
Speaker 3: but they actually never made it back even to a
Speaker 3: conference championship after that lost Super Bowl to the Patriots,
Speaker 3: So it was a lot of one and done or
Speaker 3: win a wild card and lose. And I think where
Speaker 3: he strikes me as young, you know, emotionally, but maybe
Speaker 3: not as young in terms of, like schematically, is he
Speaker 3: keeping up with what you needed to do defensively and
Speaker 3: offensively to stay at the top.
Speaker 6: I think the place Pete can add value the most
Speaker 6: might not be in Seattle anymore. Like they've already told
Speaker 6: him that, hey, we would like you to do less right,
Speaker 6: And I think we just saw Bob Myers go over
Speaker 6: to the commanders, like if you can bring in Pete
Speaker 6: Carroll in a situation to say, hey, how do we
Speaker 6: go about this process? How do we construct the team?
Speaker 6: How do we align the general manager and the head coach.
Speaker 6: I think Pete Carroll could do that somewhere else better
Speaker 6: than he can in Seattle.
Speaker 1: Also, it should be stayed he was fantastically successful in
Speaker 1: college as well. Is that a world he would like
Speaker 1: to go back to, Although that's even kind of more
Speaker 1: work with the recruiting and all that you mentioned the
Speaker 1: other thing, Greg, except for the last Wilson year, also
Speaker 1: doing it in the NFC West, There's been some juggernauts
Speaker 1: in that division through the years, and to be able
Speaker 1: to continually be in the mix, you know, it's gonna
Speaker 1: another guy that's gonna be hard to replace.
Speaker 3: I totally agree, But I also think that was part
Speaker 3: of the reason they were started to probably think about
Speaker 3: this because McVeigh and Shanahan have owned this bocks offensively
Speaker 3: for five years, so it's like, why are we going
Speaker 3: to expect this to change?
Speaker 1: That's pretty tough though, because I get two best minds
Speaker 1: in the sport.
Speaker 4: I get it.
Speaker 1: It's just that probably led to it that we're like stuck.
Speaker 6: In well third, there is another team in so far
Speaker 6: that is currently looking for a head ouch.
Speaker 1: If oh, Pete.
Speaker 3: Would love it down here, I would hire him as
Speaker 3: just like a guy to be around the team. Because
Speaker 3: one thing, Mark Sanchez was really good talking about this,
Speaker 3: But then I started listening to Seahawks players talk about
Speaker 3: this too, like no one made you feel better and
Speaker 3: gave you more confidence that you could do any that
Speaker 3: you could be your best self, essentially than Pete Carroll
Speaker 3: like he Sanchez and Gino's talked about this too. Makes
Speaker 3: you feel like I'm gonna do it, like and you
Speaker 3: want to play for him.
Speaker 4: And I think this is a.
Speaker 3: Bad news for Gino, their starting quarterback, and makes me
Speaker 3: think it's more likely that they That was Gino's biggest
Speaker 3: support everything. I think he really loved Gino. I think
Speaker 3: that it went both ways. He believed in Gino in
Speaker 3: a way that who knows if the next coach is
Speaker 3: going to be, so there could be a lot of changes, all.
Speaker 1: Right, So Carol, there's a bombshell right there. Another bombshell
Speaker 1: on Tuesday, when the Tennessee Titans fired Mike Vrabel, rap
Speaker 1: sheet reported it, and then it was confirmed in a
Speaker 1: statement from Amy Adams Strunk that Vrabel, the coach of
Speaker 1: the Titans for the past six seasons, leading the team
Speaker 1: to a fifty four and forty five record and two
Speaker 1: playoff victories, including an AFC title Game appearance, is out.
Speaker 1: And a lot of questions about why this happened, why
Speaker 1: it wasn't a trade, why the Titans would disconnect from,
Speaker 1: you know, one of the more successful coaches of the
Speaker 1: past decade. And it's only fitting, gentlemen, if we're gonna
Speaker 1: be talking a little titoons in a big spot, that
Speaker 1: we bring in a Hall of Famer, Hall of Fame producer.
Speaker 1: He's on Mount Rushmore. Do I need to say his name?
Speaker 1: How about I just play the drop buddy. Justin Graver
Speaker 1: joins us from Parts Unknown. Well it's actually his office,
Speaker 1: and there it is my favorite, the rotating Titans helmet
Speaker 1: that's going just a little too fast, what's up, buddy?
Speaker 7: Have you been I've been great, guys. How are y'all doing.
Speaker 7: I'm over at Fox Sports producing the NFL on Fox
Speaker 7: podcast nowadays, but I miss you guys every day.
Speaker 1: Wait, the NFL on Fox podcast. That's right.
Speaker 3: We didn't know your Yes, we thought you were just
Speaker 3: doing baseball, all right, and it.
Speaker 1: Was nice having justin on the show until next time,
Speaker 1: all right. Great for Tacre, that's great because you are
Speaker 1: obviously wonderfully suited for anything evolving NFL coverage. You have
Speaker 1: your Titans podcast which is called What the Music City Audible,
Speaker 1: so make sure you check that out. And I am
Speaker 1: sure you had an emergency episode to break this down.
Speaker 1: What were your initial thoughts when the news went down
Speaker 1: the vrabel was out. How surprised were you and what
Speaker 1: do you think about the state of the organization in general?
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think it was a bit surprising. I would
Speaker 7: give my I would put it at like a seven
Speaker 7: out of ten surprise rating because there's been a lot
Speaker 7: of smoke surrounding what verbel possibly being traded to the Patriots,
Speaker 7: I think, dating back to him being inducted into the
Speaker 7: Patriots Hall of Fame, we've seen a lot of reports
Speaker 7: that the Patriots would want to go after him. Would
Speaker 7: might Verbel want to force his way out? The Titans
Speaker 7: don't want to move on from Mike Brabel, but would
Speaker 7: he want to force his way out and move on himself?
Speaker 7: And it seems like maybe some of that was overblown,
Speaker 7: And we've heard a lot of about stuff about a
Speaker 7: rift between Rabel and general manager Ran Carthon. Ran Carthon
Speaker 7: dismissed all of that in his press conference yesterday's. Naturally,
Speaker 7: rabele were on great terms, of course, right, what else
Speaker 7: is he going to say? He's going to help Rabel
Speaker 7: land the next job and not kick his buddy while
Speaker 7: he's down. But I did find it very interesting that
Speaker 7: it seems this all has come more from a rift
Speaker 7: between he and ownership, between he and Amy Adams Strunk.
Speaker 7: We have Nashville media members citing blow ups between Rabel
Speaker 7: and ownership that are very interesting, and I think all
Speaker 7: of this is more about what's happening behind the scenes
Speaker 7: than anything Vrabel did on the field. And granted six
Speaker 7: and eighteen in his last twenty four games, one in
Speaker 7: five in the division this year. Those are things that
Speaker 7: can get a head coach fired. But I think that
Speaker 7: Mike Brabel proved himself to be a great coach to
Speaker 7: always sort of play above the level of talent that
Speaker 7: he was working with, especially the injury ravaged twenty twenty
Speaker 7: one season. So for those reasons, it is a surprise
Speaker 7: because we thought Rabel was a good coach for the Titans,
Speaker 7: but Amy Adams Strunk cited a wanting an innovative, fresh
Speaker 7: approach at the head coaching position, and there's been a
Speaker 7: lot of talk that Rabel didn't align with the vision
Speaker 7: of the future of this team. And I don't really
Speaker 7: know what that means because ran Carson was asked multiple
Speaker 7: times what is the vision, and he said, we'll tell
Speaker 7: you when it's time to tell you, And Amy Adams
Speaker 7: Strunk said, we're not going to define that vision right now,
Speaker 7: but we do have one, and it all feels a
Speaker 7: little bit messy for sure, But I do think, you know,
Speaker 7: on the positive bias side, this could play out well
Speaker 7: for the Titans. If you look at some of the
Speaker 7: quicker rebuilds in the NFL over the last two years.
Speaker 7: You know Sean McVay turning the Rams around quickly, Dan
Speaker 7: Campbell in Detroit, Mike McDaniel in Miami. But then there's
Speaker 7: a flip side the Brandon Staleys that you're really excited
Speaker 7: to hire when it happens, and three years later everyone's
Speaker 7: calling for his head. So I think this could go
Speaker 7: okay or it could be a major disaster. And if
Speaker 7: it proves to be a major disaster, I think you
Speaker 7: have to point to ownership making a rash decision here.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm a little worried about Strunk here.
Speaker 3: You know, there was that whole season where Malarkey made
Speaker 3: it to the playoffs. They said they were going to
Speaker 3: keep him, and then they met. They they literally said,
Speaker 3: we talked contract with him, and then they met, and
Speaker 3: then they fired him. And then they gave Robinson and
Speaker 3: Rabel an extension after twenty one, and then they fired
Speaker 3: Robinson ten months later, which led to Carthon being thrown
Speaker 3: in here. And I did wonder all season, like why
Speaker 3: are these reports coming out? And sometimes it's hard not
Speaker 3: to connect the dods. Rabel has more friends in the
Speaker 3: media than any coach I feel like since Jeff Fisher,
Speaker 3: and it felt like maybe that was coming from his side,
Speaker 3: that maybe he wanted to get out, and from her
Speaker 3: side of it, you can't look at it like he
Speaker 3: seemed to have some issues with two gms, and that's
Speaker 3: part of the job, is like.
Speaker 4: Being on the same page.
Speaker 3: And he clearly wasn't happy about the aj Brown trade
Speaker 3: and that was the old GM and now the new GM.
Speaker 3: So maybe maybe even though he is a good coach,
Speaker 3: and I think he is a good coach, you'll get
Speaker 3: a job, Like maybe it was time because it wasn't happening.
Speaker 1: There a lot of drama. Yeah, there's some of that.
Speaker 1: And there's a connection here cestag between of Rabel and Belichick,
Speaker 1: and Belichick is connected to Parcels. And I bring this
Speaker 1: up because when Parcels left the Patriots, it was if
Speaker 1: you want me to cook the dinner, you got to
Speaker 1: let me shop for the groceries. I think Rabel feels
Speaker 1: like at this point in time that he should be
Speaker 1: the guy running the operation, and clearly Strunk was going
Speaker 1: in a different different direction. The fact that you had
Speaker 1: a GM and an arranged marriage that clearly they didn't
Speaker 1: hit it off, and ownership seems decided with this GM,
Speaker 1: who hasn't succeeded at all, hasn't had much of a
Speaker 1: chance yet, whereas Brabel has. That's where I would get
Speaker 1: a little noivous as a Titans fan about the decision making.
Speaker 2: Yeah, in Graver, I mean, I'll never forget the night
Speaker 2: when we were in Las Vegas during the draft and
Speaker 2: the bombshell came down as Greg mentioned that A. J.
Speaker 2: Brown was traded and you immediately started to do a
Speaker 2: live feed about the whole thing. But you you were
Speaker 2: shell shocked by that move, and I think cresfallen and
Speaker 2: that dates. That's to me, the origin of the offense
Speaker 2: falling apart. They never found and to the point of
Speaker 2: getting groceries and helping for Abel succeed. The offense has
Speaker 2: been a disaster for two seasons. They aren't dynamic the
Speaker 2: way that other teams are in the AFC. And it's
Speaker 2: like he I feel like the frustration that he showed
Speaker 2: that night and the frustration he's felt since that makes
Speaker 2: sense that he's behind the scenes blowing up and.
Speaker 1: Not getting his way.
Speaker 2: And I think a parting makes is less surprising when
Speaker 2: you start to put all those pieces together.
Speaker 1: Grave Degy, I just want to thank you again. You've
Speaker 1: you always kept us young on our show. A very
Speaker 1: zoomer move to go into a live stream during the
Speaker 1: middle of art I'll never forget that.
Speaker 7: Yeah, well, just to you know, clarify what happened there,
Speaker 7: Ricky started the live stream and shove the phone in
Speaker 7: front of my face and said, talk checks out. Well,
Speaker 7: but yes, that was a fun, fun night for Titans fans.
Speaker 1: No, it's crazy.
Speaker 7: You look at the Titans offenses that didn't have Aj
Speaker 7: Brown under Mike Vrabel, they all finish twenty seventh best
Speaker 7: or worse in terms of like scoring offense. So is
Speaker 7: Aj Brown.
Speaker 1: That big of a piece of the puzzle.
Speaker 7: There is there some I think part of this whole
Speaker 7: new direction that Amy Adam Struck wants to go. And
Speaker 7: this vision is sort of to get away maybe from
Speaker 7: the bullie ball style of football that Mike Vrabel preached,
Speaker 7: and you know, we're gonna outphysical you as opposed to
Speaker 7: out scheme you. Is maybe a little bit old school
Speaker 7: mindset and looking at some of the most successful offensive
Speaker 7: coordinators in today's scheme today's football, yeah, they're running schemes
Speaker 7: from the late nineties, the Shanahan scheme, but they're doing
Speaker 7: so in a way that sort of attacks their opponent's weaknesses.
Speaker 7: And I always felt like the Titans under Mike Vrabel
Speaker 7: shied away from that. It was more about we're gonna
Speaker 7: play our style of ball, like we don't care that
Speaker 7: the team we're playing against has a top ranked run
Speaker 7: defense and a bottom ranked pass defense. We're going to
Speaker 7: establish the run so we can run play action off
Speaker 7: of it, and sort of ignoring the more new school
Speaker 7: ideas of like you don't necessarily need to be successful
Speaker 7: on the ground to have a strong play action game,
Speaker 7: like you ate that action in the backfield. Linebackers are
Speaker 7: going to flow downfield whether or not you've been gashing them.
Speaker 7: And I think that's where some of this is going again,
Speaker 7: not necessarily like him as a coach, as a developer,
Speaker 7: as a person who can connect to players, because I
Speaker 7: think he is all of those things, but when it
Speaker 7: comes to being more innovative and fresh minded and not
Speaker 7: trying to get a lead at halftime and then sit
Speaker 7: on it, but put your foot on the throat of
Speaker 7: your opponent, keep scoring points the way that the teams
Speaker 7: like the forty nine ers and the Dolphins do when
Speaker 7: they're having success. I think that's where this all sort
Speaker 7: of stemmed from. Was did Verybole want more control. There's
Speaker 7: conflicting reports that he did other people are saying that
Speaker 7: he actually asked Amy Adams Strunk to hire someone a general,
Speaker 7: a football like a football operations president type of person
Speaker 7: that will be above him and ran karthon that they
Speaker 7: would both answer to one person as opposed to answering
Speaker 7: to the owner. So I don't know if he necessarily
Speaker 7: did want more control. He might have and that, you know,
Speaker 7: that could be a false report out there, But I
Speaker 7: really think this is about Adam Strunk felt Mike Grabel
Speaker 7: wasn't gonna win a Super Bowl. She wants something young
Speaker 7: and innovative. She looks around the league and sees these
Speaker 7: exciting offenses. The Titans haven't scored thirty points in a
Speaker 7: football game since late in the twenty twenty one season.
Speaker 7: They went over two full calendar years, and it's going
Speaker 7: to be, you know, two and a half by the
Speaker 7: time we get to September without scoring thirty points in
Speaker 7: a game. So I think they just wanted a fresh
Speaker 7: approach and it could end up being a mistake. You know,
Speaker 7: if Mike Rabel goes to New England gets to draft
Speaker 7: a quarterback at number three and has instant success, it's
Speaker 7: going to look really bad on what the Titans have
Speaker 7: done here. But on the other hand, if they get
Speaker 7: their guy and they have success next year, you know,
Speaker 7: with Will Levis and a lot of draft capital and
Speaker 7: a lot of salary cap space this offseason. I think
Speaker 7: that was another part of it. If the vision wasn't aligned,
Speaker 7: if Mike Rabel wasn't on the same page, are you
Speaker 7: going to let him have a big say and how
Speaker 7: you're going to spend that cap space this offseason on
Speaker 7: what you're gonna do with the seventh overall pick this year,
Speaker 7: and then turn around if it doesn't work, fire him
Speaker 7: next year, and you sort of waste this important offseason.
Speaker 7: I think that all played a role in this.
Speaker 1: Justin Graver, you've said it all, by the way, ironic
Speaker 1: that if you added a czar in there, you would
Speaker 1: go from Vrabel saying I want to cook and I
Speaker 1: want the ingredients. Then you have too many chefs. Potentially
Speaker 1: you don't have too many cooks either, So a lot,
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff to figure out with the Titans.
Speaker 1: We know you got a lot to do over there
Speaker 1: at Fox and uh, let's hit him with another grave digger.
Speaker 1: Has he missed that job? I missed that man, And
Speaker 1: you look healthy and happy and uh, you know we
Speaker 1: miss you, Bud.
Speaker 7: Thanks, I miss you guys too. Great to see you.
Speaker 7: Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1: All right, good to see you.
Speaker 4: Love your Graver, see it up, Love you guys.
Speaker 1: Iconic Hall of Famer Patrick, your thoughts on the situation.
Speaker 6: Well, and the one thing that I really want to
Speaker 6: try to figure out from not just Graver, but from
Speaker 6: the Tennessee Titans, because the earlier in the week it was, well,
Speaker 6: we're not going to do the end of the year
Speaker 6: news conference until later this week, until after coach has
Speaker 6: this conversation with ownership and management. It's like, oh, okay,
Speaker 6: what's what's going on there? And I just wonder, is
Speaker 6: there where the conversation ends and Mike Rabel is still
Speaker 6: the head coach, Because if that's the case, then that
Speaker 6: signals a major problem to me that you're just making
Speaker 6: these decisions in the spur of the moment based on
Speaker 6: a conversation right at the end.
Speaker 1: Of the flight.
Speaker 4: The malarkey thing too, which I know.
Speaker 6: Which is which sets up, but it's still a pattern,
Speaker 6: right if you if you go from these coaching decision
Speaker 6: and it's like if these higher fire decisions are coming
Speaker 6: down to one conversation, then what are we really deciding?
Speaker 3: Right And there was also a report literally six weeks
Speaker 3: ago that said Mike Rabel is going to be safe
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty four and beyond that was from Diana
Speaker 3: Rossini of The Athletic and that felt like it came
Speaker 3: straight and beyond that, you know, something like that doesn't
Speaker 3: come from like an assistant coach, that comes from the top.
Speaker 3: And you can almost see you can connect the dots
Speaker 3: because the Titans put it out there or we found
Speaker 3: out from Diana on Monday as well that they didn't
Speaker 3: want to do the trade potentially for Mike Rabel because
Speaker 3: it could take a long time and they just didn't
Speaker 3: want to get stuck in that process and they wanted
Speaker 3: to get going with possibly hiring the new coaches.
Speaker 4: And then I watched this video.
Speaker 3: This is I'm not going to say it's like Kremlin like,
Speaker 3: but it did remind me of a very strange situation.
Speaker 3: It was a five minute video from the Titans with
Speaker 3: Strunk and a reporter I guess from the team.
Speaker 1: Had a bit of a PBS like public television vive
Speaker 1: to it.
Speaker 3: Actually, but I know and I'm not speaking for this one.
Speaker 3: In particular, but I've heard of ones like this. Those
Speaker 3: those she knows what questions is coming. That's basically like
Speaker 3: a press conference without being a press compan She's going
Speaker 3: to hit the button she wants to hit to get
Speaker 3: the voice out there to the fans.
Speaker 4: Which is fine, that's her right. I don't think it's crazy.
Speaker 3: But one of the things she stressed in that one
Speaker 3: was that exact same point that she didn't want to
Speaker 3: go through the whole trade thing. She basically went through
Speaker 3: everything Justin was saying there and.
Speaker 1: I don't want to go through the trade thing like
Speaker 1: that that it would take bring value to it, It
Speaker 1: would take too much.
Speaker 4: I don't think that to be fair.
Speaker 3: I don't think the trade would have happened anyways, because
Speaker 3: like Mike Rabel has to go along with that and
Speaker 3: it could be a big process. I don't know if
Speaker 3: he's gonna They would drama. It just was all very all,
Speaker 3: very interesting. This is not a team that people thought
Speaker 3: of having great ownership with her father or was it
Speaker 3: her father in law. I forget Bud Adams, but either
Speaker 3: I think it's her father.
Speaker 1: It was a fun window. Though I liked that Titans team.
Speaker 1: I like the window is kind of kind of ending
Speaker 1: the Brady Pats era. Was it who had to pick six?
Speaker 1: So Logan Ryan, Logan Ryan to getting to the AFC
Speaker 1: title game like that. That team was kind of fun
Speaker 1: to watch, even though they weren't the traditional type of
Speaker 1: aired out attack. You had Derrek Henry as the lead
Speaker 1: and Ryan Tannehill is a really good veteran quarterback. And
Speaker 1: that window closed and now they're into the great without
Speaker 1: Rabel as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, changes were already coming to the roster, especially on offense,
Speaker 2: but I can't really think of an AFC team that
Speaker 2: is set for a bigger tone shift than the Titans
Speaker 2: because they were very much Mike Rabels creation.
Speaker 4: Yes, and the players love him.
Speaker 3: They played hard like He's a tough one to figure
Speaker 3: because I don't think he's ever shown he provides any
Speaker 3: particular schematic advantage, Like the year he was a defensive
Speaker 3: coordinator in the Texans, they were kind of a terrible
Speaker 3: defense in one of the worst defensive league.
Speaker 4: Like even in Tennessee.
Speaker 3: Like the numbers didn't say it, and yet you can
Speaker 3: see it on the field that they're greater than some
Speaker 3: of their parts.
Speaker 4: They're tough, they they play hard.
Speaker 3: There I think that the moment they'll look back on
Speaker 3: is that Bengals loss forty one seed AFC Championship.
Speaker 4: For the next year they follow it up with the
Speaker 4: one seed.
Speaker 3: That game was very winnable and they just couldn't get
Speaker 3: any pass protection and that essentially continued for the next
Speaker 3: three seasons.
Speaker 1: That was that special Cincinnati season. All right, let's move
Speaker 1: on more to get to some head coaches who are
Speaker 1: safe but their assistant okmark no, Yes, some of the
Speaker 1: coaches that are okay, but they are changes beneath them.
Speaker 1: The bye, the Buyers, the Bears fire offensive coordinator Luke Getsy,
Speaker 1: as well as four other offensive assistants. So there was
Speaker 1: a I mean so much Claybahn of intrigue around the
Speaker 1: Bears right now, palace intrigue. And the idea is Matt
Speaker 1: Eberflu's going to get a third season. Well, it certainly
Speaker 1: looks like he'll get year three, but they're gonna do
Speaker 1: it with a whole new staff. Of course, remember defensive
Speaker 1: coordinator Alan Williams resigned from his role earlier this season.
Speaker 1: Very murky scenario there. So, while Rappaport reported that Iberflus
Speaker 1: is likely to remain the team's defensive play caller. He's
Speaker 1: expected to hire a true defensive coordinator, per source, and
Speaker 1: this is all set against the backdrop of the biggest
Speaker 1: quarterback decision in the history of the organization.
Speaker 6: Yeah, there's a lot of different places that the Bears
Speaker 6: could go at this point, and I guess the Getsy
Speaker 6: thing seemed like it was somewhat inevitable. Is the question
Speaker 6: was was Eberflus going to join him? And now if
Speaker 6: somebody else is coming in to bring over the defensive
Speaker 6: play calling, and then somebody else is going to be,
Speaker 6: of course calling the offense. It's one of those things
Speaker 6: where we're watching league wide, it's, oh, you got to
Speaker 6: get the play caller. The play caller has to be
Speaker 6: the head coach. Otherwise, how are you going to get
Speaker 6: this guys? How does that match with the idea that
Speaker 6: we're going to have either a quarterback or this is
Speaker 6: justin fields and in a must make it situation.
Speaker 1: I just don't think.
Speaker 6: It sounds great for the current head coach of the
Speaker 6: Bears as of right now, considering the position he's in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he's he's he goes into next year
Speaker 2: because there's hope in Chicago that there's pressure on him,
Speaker 2: and I guess like you when you go and look
Speaker 2: around at the available play callers out there, it is
Speaker 2: a bit of a like what are you telling that
Speaker 2: oc Like behind the scenes, look at we're sticking with
Speaker 2: Justin Fields and we need someone who can design an
Speaker 2: offense around Justin Fields and make him special, or we
Speaker 2: might be going and drafting Caleb Williams or Drake May
Speaker 2: and we need someone to con flexibly go to line
Speaker 2: offense around that because if you go and gets like
Speaker 2: a Greg Roman type person to make Justin feels the
Speaker 2: center of the universe, that guy can't go do.
Speaker 1: The thing you'd want if you had Kayleb Williams.
Speaker 2: So it's like it's a very intriguing selection on who
Speaker 2: you pick here.
Speaker 3: You probably keep your cards so close to the vest
Speaker 3: because you don't trust anyone yet even if you have
Speaker 3: a feeling and they probably don't have a final answer,
Speaker 3: although you would think Ryan Poles, in his heart of hearts,
Speaker 3: kind of knows which way he's leaning. But yeah, I
Speaker 3: think you pick a coordinator based on the expectation that
Speaker 3: you're going to have a rookie. The thing that has
Speaker 3: to be so frustrating for Bears fans is like, this
Speaker 3: is the exact same setup that has failed them multiple
Speaker 3: times before with this ownership in a row. So you
Speaker 3: kept John Fox one extra year after he was absolutely
Speaker 3: terrible three and thirteen, they draft Mitch Trubisky, You fire
Speaker 3: John Fox. Then it's like a coach in Matt Maggie
Speaker 3: that didn't have blah blah blah. You were thinking about
Speaker 3: maybe firing Naggy with Trubisky, you keep them one extra year,
Speaker 3: you draft justin Fields, it doesn't go that well, you
Speaker 3: fire Matt Naggy, and then it's field starting over again
Speaker 3: with a coach that didn't happen and the most likely
Speaker 3: outcome here because Matt Eberflus hasn't shown to be a
Speaker 3: huge difference maker. It is a good roster and maybe
Speaker 3: they will win. But if they don't, Matt Eberfluss will
Speaker 3: not be here next year, and it'll be a coach
Speaker 3: who didn't draft. It's just like they're never synd up
Speaker 3: and it's always the same thing.
Speaker 1: In other news, the Jaguars melted down down the stretch
Speaker 1: of a regular season, missing out on the playoffs. Usually
Speaker 1: when something like that happens, heads roll and I it's
Speaker 1: not the head coach, it's the people right below. That's
Speaker 1: what happened here. The Jaguars fired defensive coordinator Mike Caldwell
Speaker 1: and multiple assistants on Monday. The team announced Doug Peterson
Speaker 1: had said earlier Monday that he was still quote processing
Speaker 1: the disappointment, disappointing end of the season. It was going
Speaker 1: to take some time before making changes. Well he didn't
Speaker 1: need much time. In addition to they also fired d
Speaker 1: line coach brentston Buckner, passing game coordinator and cornerbacks coach
Speaker 1: Deshea Townsend, insound linebackers coach Tony Gilbert, safety's coach Cody
Speaker 1: grimm Grim, senior defensive assistant Bob Sutton, and defensive quality
Speaker 1: control coaches Te Mitchell's and Sean Kalina. So they kind
Speaker 1: of clean out a lot of the staff and not
Speaker 1: a surprise.
Speaker 3: Not a surprise, but they had different options. It was
Speaker 3: interesting listening to some of the local covered John Shipley
Speaker 3: does a great Jaguars podcast that I've listened to, and
Speaker 3: like they were like, are they going to change the
Speaker 3: offensive coordinator because the offense got a lot worse and
Speaker 3: was more disappointing, whereas this season the defense which is mediocre,
Speaker 3: did improve from where it was a year ago? Or
Speaker 3: could the GM Trent balk be in trouble Because I
Speaker 3: think if you were like doing a blame pie, he
Speaker 3: might have.
Speaker 4: The biggest one.
Speaker 3: But Doug Peterson's an offensive coach ultimately, and it's sort
Speaker 3: of the cleanest, easiest thing to dis blame it on
Speaker 3: the defense. And their defense certainly struggled in that Week
Speaker 3: eighteen game, and it was kind of sloppy with mistackles
Speaker 3: throughout the season.
Speaker 2: It was a total team implosion. It was on both
Speaker 2: sides of the ball, but the defense certainly. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's interesting as Doug Peterson, one of the reasons that
Speaker 2: he ended up, you know, breaking up with the Eagles
Speaker 2: was in that final offseason they asked him to do
Speaker 2: this exact same thing, which was make major coaching changes,
Speaker 2: and he showed extreme loyalty and wound up leaving the
Speaker 2: Eagles for that reason. But in this case, you're right,
Speaker 2: it's not his side of the ball, and there was
Speaker 2: there was clear evidence the change needed to come.
Speaker 6: Yeah, especially well down the stretch they go through that run.
Speaker 6: There's the Jake Browning game. The Bengals scored thirty four points,
Speaker 6: and they lose to the new look Flacco Browns, which
Speaker 6: everybody did. And they lose to the Ravens, which everybody did.
Speaker 6: But that the twenty eight points against the Titans were
Speaker 6: a few weeks ago. They blew out the Titans. It
Speaker 6: was thirty four to fourteen. It just looked like a
Speaker 6: functionally different situation. And like Christian kirk Hertz, but it
Speaker 6: was tough to defend the Jack's defense, like the way
Speaker 6: that they played the entire season. They made some key
Speaker 6: turnovers in some spots, but you go back when you're
Speaker 6: examining the schedule, it really just wasn't.
Speaker 1: A good defense.
Speaker 4: Offense seemed really poorly coach though, too, But that's you.
Speaker 3: What are you gonna do? You could switch coordinators, but
Speaker 3: it's ultimately Peters. They just got to button that up.
Speaker 3: All these interceptions where the receivers don't know where they are,
Speaker 3: they can't get a short yardage play.
Speaker 4: They it stuck out more too to me, the offensive code.
Speaker 2: Think about that Chiefs loss where there were like multiple
Speaker 2: drops in the end zone and it seemed to plague
Speaker 2: them all year. And I mean, I think the whole
Speaker 2: thing about Doug Peterson. It's Trevor Lawrence, and it like
Speaker 2: he took a step back. I know he's banged up,
Speaker 2: he played through a lot of injuries, but it's like,
Speaker 2: there was this incredible promise that Trevor Lawrence was becoming
Speaker 2: the top five quarterback and we saw a lot of
Speaker 2: the old mistakes.
Speaker 1: Stop up the reel that popped up this week on
Speaker 1: Twitter of near touchdowns from Trevor Lawrence. It's like, I mean,
Speaker 1: we're talking what ten, yeah, twelve touchdowns that are plays
Speaker 1: that could be or should be made. And you know,
Speaker 1: that's why not be surprised if with some tweaks to
Speaker 1: what they're doing and it has a healthy year that
Speaker 1: he's a monster next year. I'm not. I'm not out
Speaker 1: on Lawrence as a monster.
Speaker 6: Everybody's gonna overreact, like Dak has some picks at the
Speaker 6: end of last season. It's like, oh God, it's it's
Speaker 6: over for Duk, Like I think Trevor will be fine.
Speaker 6: My question because for folks who didn't watch the game,
Speaker 6: of course, if you look at the highlights, it's Trevor
Speaker 6: Lawrence pulling the ball back on fourth and goal where
Speaker 6: he almost had a chance to score, but on third
Speaker 6: down they lined up with three guys in a row
Speaker 6: and ran this like spin out pass that had no
Speaker 6: hope and it's just like.
Speaker 1: What what was the what's the plan?
Speaker 2: But on that, on that one like failed sneak by Lawrence,
Speaker 2: like they there was other tapes showing that linemen were,
Speaker 2: you know, because he changed the call he changed into
Speaker 2: that play call that it didn't go deep enough where
Speaker 2: line were doing.
Speaker 3: It on his own right, he's done that before, but
Speaker 3: doing it that was on him from.
Speaker 2: The and he took accountability for it too. And I'm
Speaker 2: with you, Dan, like there's no reason to not believe
Speaker 2: in him at this point.
Speaker 1: But it was just like.
Speaker 3: Luck, And this is true of all these firings, like
Speaker 3: luck is an uncomfortable portion of why any of this happened.
Speaker 4: Just like that, you had some bad breaks.
Speaker 6: If I had to call and execute that third downplay,
Speaker 6: I would have tried to yellow it myself too.
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, by the way, nice some nice melodrama. Speaking
Speaker 1: of palace intrigue with the Giants defensive coordinator Wink Martindale.
Speaker 1: And this bummed me out when I heard this right
Speaker 1: before we started. They've mutually agreed to part ways, the
Speaker 1: team announced Wednesday earlier today. The story was that and
Speaker 1: the background was Brian Dabele, I believe, came out and
Speaker 1: said early Monday, I expect Wink to be back. Then
Speaker 1: they have a meeting that same day that they had
Speaker 1: a conversation. And that's a nice way to call it,
Speaker 1: Wink and Brian Dabele, And it ended with Martindale cursing
Speaker 1: out his coach, and it was all about the Giant's
Speaker 1: decision to move on and Dabele's decision to move on
Speaker 1: from outside linebackers coach Drew Wilkins and defensive assistant Kevin
Speaker 1: Wilkins both had come over with Wink from Baltimore, and
Speaker 1: Drew was like Wink's right hand man, and the Post
Speaker 1: reported that Dabel was adamant about getting rid of Drew
Speaker 1: and by associal association, Kevin because there was quote a
Speaker 1: feeling in the building that Martindale and Drew Wilkins were
Speaker 1: creating their own fight them ffeed them one of my
Speaker 1: favorite words within the coaching staff at times, bypassing Dable
Speaker 1: and believing they had to answer only to each other
Speaker 1: and ultimately ownership. So Dable like sniffs this out or
Speaker 1: he perceives us, whether it's true or not and says
Speaker 1: hell no, And it ends with Dabel cursing out Dable,
Speaker 1: excuse me, Wink cursing out Dable storming out of the facility.
Speaker 1: And then Mike Jeez were on the Insider Show on
Speaker 1: NFL Plus today and he's saying the Giants are in
Speaker 1: a weird spot because he just stormed off and went
Speaker 1: to far and never technically resigned, and they also didn't
Speaker 1: fire him, so they were kind of handcuffed.
Speaker 4: A look him three million dollars and.
Speaker 1: It was going to cause a problem for the Giants.
Speaker 1: So my disappointment is that as a man who loves
Speaker 1: mellow drama, but I can't talk right now that's all
Speaker 1: over because they mutually agree, and Wink, you're upset that
Speaker 1: it's been resolved. I like it's fun and I wanted
Speaker 1: I want him more, the more dysfunction. But Wink's gonna
Speaker 1: get a job somewhere. But also like the head coach
Speaker 1: that hires him is like, damn, do I want these
Speaker 1: Wilkins boys with me?
Speaker 2: Oh, It's it's so funny because like got reminded me
Speaker 2: of that book Collision Low Crossers that we all read,
Speaker 2: where a big part of the drama between the Jets
Speaker 2: was that the offensive staff.
Speaker 1: Oh I drank. Every time Mark still brings up cli costs.
Speaker 2: I literally actually like had a long talk with Collision
Speaker 2: Low Crossers with Pete Carroll way back in the day.
Speaker 1: I mean he and he drank, I'll have to say.
Speaker 1: But anyways, like that.
Speaker 4: People should check it out. There are not enough to
Speaker 4: check out what collision look around.
Speaker 1: Aren't enough books like this.
Speaker 5: I did order and I have that book on my
Speaker 5: coffee table and it does mark Collision Low Crossing.
Speaker 1: Because Marcus referenced so much. I literally bought it two
Speaker 1: weeks ago.
Speaker 2: There's more books like this, Greg because they the author,
Speaker 2: they embedded someone with the Jets for like a year
Speaker 2: plus and like you learn number one, everything that happens
Speaker 2: to a football team the minute the off season starts,
Speaker 2: and what the coaches do.
Speaker 1: But it got so soiled because.
Speaker 2: The offensive staff and you had Sanchez and things were
Speaker 2: up and down obviously, and the defensive staff were they
Speaker 2: weren't even speaking to each other and they were openly
Speaker 2: at odds and I think, like bad teams, this is
Speaker 2: what starts to happen. And it's like this year's Jets
Speaker 2: and this Year's Giants, where you've got defunked quarterback play
Speaker 2: and you've got a defense trying to hold down the
Speaker 2: fort and wing Martin Dale's no, Wilton Flower.
Speaker 4: I love it.
Speaker 3: I'm with you, Dan. I'm sad this having other I
Speaker 3: don't like dables move here. It just seems cowardly. Well,
Speaker 3: you you have a press conference, you say Martin Dale's
Speaker 3: gonna back. Obviously there's some issues here. Glazer reported on
Speaker 3: it three weeks ago or whatever it was a month
Speaker 3: ago that the two of them weren't getting along. You
Speaker 3: say he's going to be back, then you fire his
Speaker 3: two closest assistants without having a conversation with at a time.
Speaker 1: So that's odd.
Speaker 4: That to me is you're firing with Martindale because you
Speaker 4: know what's gonna happen to just fire with.
Speaker 1: I heard this through my reporting. Wink went into the office,
Speaker 1: He's like, where's Drew Joe? He did not keV Drew
Speaker 1: and keV Wilkins boys, no, no answer. They were gone.
Speaker 3: And then yeah, Brian actually Bride Dabell goes in just
Speaker 3: from the hallway.
Speaker 1: Big gone.
Speaker 2: Hey God, you're right though, Greg, Like it was a
Speaker 2: roundabout move that like this was the Coach of the
Speaker 2: Year a year ago.
Speaker 3: Well, and there are some reporting too, like the Kafka
Speaker 3: is unhappy with how Dabel has minimized him. He's the
Speaker 3: offensive coordinator. So then you do I like I like Dabel,
Speaker 3: but there just seems.
Speaker 1: To be just like, wow is strong by the way,
Speaker 1: Isn't that part of this? This stuff happens all the time,
Speaker 1: doesn't it. We hear about this all the time, and
Speaker 1: firing assistance that are connected to people. And then I
Speaker 1: only have so many resigns. I only have so many principles.
Speaker 3: But I do feel like within the most important principle
Speaker 3: is just be forthright in important matters with people around you.
Speaker 3: So that just seems like you're you're kind of taking
Speaker 3: the easy way out.
Speaker 6: Don't have a loud, passionate screaming match on national television
Speaker 6: with somebody and then come out and be like, hey,
Speaker 6: you know, everything's fine. You know, we hang out, we
Speaker 6: have tea in the afternoon. Like no, like we had
Speaker 6: a disagreement. We're not necessarily seeing eye on on on
Speaker 6: a certain issue.
Speaker 1: But the market Patrick like he's trying to put that
Speaker 1: out because anything you say is going to be sure.
Speaker 4: To not just like handle it with Martin Dale, you know,
Speaker 4: person in person, are.
Speaker 1: They gonna Are they gonna get rid of the defensive
Speaker 1: meeting rooms? Sure?
Speaker 6: It seems like Drue as a fiefdom, right because I
Speaker 6: had to look it up. It's an area over which
Speaker 6: someone exercizes control in the manner of a feudal lord.
Speaker 6: So are we gonna say, like anytime the defense is meeting? Like, wait,
Speaker 6: what are you guys talking about? I don't necessarily trust you.
Speaker 6: Table's like, hey, wait, you want to have a conversation
Speaker 6: real quick? He's like no, I'm actually just about to
Speaker 6: grab jew and get so.
Speaker 1: Much it was like, nah, now you know you will
Speaker 1: not be having lunch with Yeah, he won't be finding Drew.
Speaker 1: You're just gonna find out the office, all right. And
Speaker 1: finally in the news, all quiet in New England for
Speaker 1: the time being. So Vrabel's out held, Carol's out, Carol
Speaker 1: coach the Pats once upon a time. Putting that together, bo,
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, that's that's history. But a couple of
Speaker 1: days now, after Bill's end of season press conference and
Speaker 1: him mentioning that he was under contract to the Patriots
Speaker 1: and all the speculation connecting him to multiple teams, including
Speaker 1: the Atlanta Falcons. No updates. I do have the atn
Speaker 1: Media insider. I did get a quote from Bill. I
Speaker 1: know this is going to be surprising, very surprising, because
Speaker 1: you know what what Robert Kraft wants. Craft wants Bill
Speaker 1: to quit and and then he he looks good and
Speaker 1: then they start over. But Bill wants to He's putting
Speaker 1: the heat on Craft to make the move. Uh, here's
Speaker 1: what Bill told me exclusively, if you want to stop me,
Speaker 1: you're gonna have to kill so emotional. So he's starting
Speaker 1: to open up a little bit, and that's good. I
Speaker 1: think that's good that Bill is being honest with the media,
Speaker 1: just like Dable. We don't want to be cowardly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so cathartic. Yeah, was it easy to get him to
Speaker 1: go on record one on one week? I got him
Speaker 1: very drunk.
Speaker 4: You do you do wonder? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Is is Robert Kraft making Jonathan Kraft be the bad
Speaker 3: guy here?
Speaker 4: They did?
Speaker 3: They did, by the way, not enjoy that Pete Carroll
Speaker 3: experience the first time around. That was their welcome to
Speaker 3: NFL ownership, was that it.
Speaker 1: Was like forty two e ons ago. Yeah, that Pete
Speaker 1: Carroll is a different person.
Speaker 4: Carroll thing.
Speaker 3: I fully expect Bill Belichick to not be the head
Speaker 3: coach of the Patriots in a week or whenever. It's
Speaker 3: going to be Tom Curran, who I really trust more
Speaker 3: than anyone there. Has said repeatedly, do you trust more
Speaker 3: Tom Kerrn or your own father?
Speaker 1: Quick?
Speaker 4: Quick, quite quick about the Patriot No?
Speaker 1: No, no, no answer my father.
Speaker 3: But I just he's been operating like they made this decision.
Speaker 3: The decision is made, and it does make sense to
Speaker 3: me that there would be some I think they want
Speaker 3: to have it be as kumbaya as Siaks have with
Speaker 3: Pete Carroll. Now I don't think that's it's not going
Speaker 3: to be that cool, but I think they're trying to
Speaker 3: to just manage it, and that change is coming, it's
Speaker 3: just not hasn't come in the forty eight hours after.
Speaker 1: This and the and you look at Tennessee with Rabel
Speaker 1: and they decided not to pursue the trade route. And
Speaker 1: it does make sense when you kind of break it
Speaker 1: down that obviously that Craft would love to turn this
Speaker 1: into a trade, but Bill has no reason to make
Speaker 1: it a trade. And if Bill puts it back on crime,
Speaker 1: it's like I'm not agreeing to anything like that, You're
Speaker 1: gonna have to fire me. You can't keep me, like
Speaker 1: you if you if you don't trade me and you
Speaker 1: don't fire me, then you got to keep me. And
Speaker 1: meanwhile the Patriots are trying to start over, and it's like,
Speaker 1: what is this gonna wrap up? Is the question?
Speaker 3: Tom also believes it. Bill wholeheartedly really with lot wants
Speaker 3: to stay in New England. That is his like, he
Speaker 3: loves it there, he's been there forever. He believes he
Speaker 3: can turn it around, and so yeah, he's got to
Speaker 3: go out kicking and screaming. He is not assuming that
Speaker 3: this is a FATA company and you never know. Maybe
Speaker 3: he could be persuasive, but I don't think so. I
Speaker 3: also don't think any team is waiting around for Bill
Speaker 3: Belichick or Mike Rabel for that matter, around these trades.
Speaker 3: It's like Rabel was six and eighteen, like, yes, they
Speaker 3: would give up something potentially, but it's not Mike Rabel
Speaker 3: three years ago off winning the Coach of the Year,
Speaker 3: And it's not Bill Belichick ten years ago or anything.
Speaker 1: Can you're saying and that's somebody who Weiser was the
Speaker 1: same thing. I think Belichick is tremendous like, I think
Speaker 1: he's gonna have a big market.
Speaker 4: I do too.
Speaker 3: I just don't think teams are gonna wait around to
Speaker 3: send like a valuable draft pick for him. And if
Speaker 3: it's their wady around to get like a fifth round pick,
Speaker 3: It's like, what are we doing?
Speaker 1: It'd be embarrassing to be trade rounded for a fifth round.
Speaker 3: I'm just saying like, I don't think anyone's giving up
Speaker 3: a first for Bill right now.
Speaker 4: We're like going through the hassle of it.
Speaker 1: And who do you call? Like, how do you make
Speaker 1: a trade for Bill Belichick? I guess the other Bill
Speaker 1: you have to.
Speaker 2: Well, true, yeah, you've called got a circle circle around
Speaker 2: Bill Belichick.
Speaker 1: But crafts, Yeah, that's yeah, you're gonna have to kill me.
Speaker 1: That's interesting. All right, that's what's happening in the news.
Speaker 1: Eric circling back to the Claybon theme song.
Speaker 5: Yes, any Claybond theme songs or anybody theme songs for
Speaker 5: that matter. We got that Mark Sessler one just got
Speaker 5: dropped in our lap. Didn't really ask word.
Speaker 1: It's a banger. The ATM podcast at Gmail. You have that,
Speaker 1: you have that if you're gonna mention it, will play
Speaker 1: it just to give you an idea of the creativity
Speaker 1: that we expect. If you're going to if you're gonna submit,
Speaker 1: don't waste our time. I want actual musicians. I want
Speaker 1: real production values, because anything less than that is a
Speaker 1: slap in the face of Patrick Clayban, which is fine,
Speaker 1: like you could and we're not gonna go the dable
Speaker 1: route with with Drew, where we want to treat the
Speaker 1: man with the respect he deserves.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 1: So the themes that we've had for Colleen and who
Speaker 1: else has base Wish has a ton by the way,
Speaker 1: Whish before we did here's the Mark theme by the way,
Speaker 1: and Bar Curtis sent everybody can't get enough? Can't you
Speaker 1: just picture Mark in a club in Berlin with Pierre Nipples,
Speaker 1: just dancing every one of those all aspects of that story.
Speaker 6: I could see him at the DJ table spinning this
Speaker 6: track like with the crowd going rolling out of his mind.
Speaker 4: Now I'm going to the dance for the Pierce nipples.
Speaker 3: Paisley open shirt not not a like a button down
Speaker 3: but not no buttons, just nobody's touching.
Speaker 1: A lot of slow motion. Here's so anyway, before the
Speaker 1: wife submissions came in, we we actually spoke with wises
Speaker 1: like what do you want? And he talked about his
Speaker 1: wife uh D's background Jamaican background, I believe it is,
Speaker 1: and we get like kind of something with a little
Speaker 1: dancey calypso vibe Caribbean, like what what would a clayband song? Oh,
Speaker 1: are you gonna hate my answer?
Speaker 6: No, because if somebody's taking the time to make make
Speaker 6: a track about me, just just feel it whatever I
Speaker 6: have never said that means something to you or any no.
Speaker 4: Boundaries, just just make you don't need a particular style.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to put anybody in a box. So
Speaker 1: you're saying, lyrically, go wherever you want. But musically, is
Speaker 1: there a genre that perhaps you would I would prefer
Speaker 1: I would prefer control over the lyrics more than the music.
Speaker 1: We can't offer you that we can't off you that
Speaker 1: we can't let you shop for the groceries. Okay, someone's
Speaker 1: shopping for the groceries and making the meal here. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but you'll have multiple to pick from it, because no,
Speaker 1: I didn't. I got one. But that's fine. I really
Speaker 1: enjoyed it. I mean that's one out of one. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if you.
Speaker 6: Want to, if you want a rolling sweaty glowstick track
Speaker 6: like marks like that's fine or you could.
Speaker 1: Doesn't feel right though, I don't know what it is,
Speaker 1: like Patrick, there's something. Uh, people are gonna get the essence.
Speaker 1: They're gonna you know, you know, I don't want to
Speaker 1: they know they know him through the I was gonna
Speaker 1: offer my opinion on it, but I'm just gonna let
Speaker 1: the people feel it out. Yeah, well, musical people have
Speaker 1: patrick beautiful face. Just stare at it and what does
Speaker 1: it bring to you? Like and creatively? How does that
Speaker 1: get the juices flowing? It could be a sultry song.
Speaker 1: We don't try to control yourself. Look at it PA's photo.
Speaker 4: I don't know if Patrick is like a huge music guy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but he's the other people making the song, That's
Speaker 3: what I'm saying. That informs why he doesn't need a
Speaker 3: specific genre.
Speaker 6: He I also don't know enough to like because musical
Speaker 6: genres kind of getting the weeds a little bit.
Speaker 3: I just remember having a conversation with you one yeah,
Speaker 3: with about me and You're like, I don't know that
Speaker 3: much about music, and I was like, Okay, that's interesting.
Speaker 1: What about something with a bit of like a hoopa
Speaker 1: stank vibe, like more of the reason or crawling like
Speaker 1: dark the reason whoa. Okay, you're trying to project onto
Speaker 1: him what he had to share it for some reason,
Speaker 1: like the reason I'm the reason I'm more crawling in
Speaker 1: the dark than I am the rest. Okay, there you go.
Speaker 1: There's just one direction you can go. And I mentioned
Speaker 1: looking at the pictures of Patrick. Be respectful, that's all. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's hard. Be respectful. All right, let's take a break.
Speaker 1: Oh did we do we say the name of the email? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's the ATN podcast at gmail dot com. Send him in,
Speaker 1: don't disappoint us. We believe in you, and uh we
Speaker 1: will send you a signed autograph photo of Mark Sessler
Speaker 1: in the Levi jacket. Uh for the anyone that submits
Speaker 1: a song that we use on the show. How about that?
Speaker 1: That means we got to send Mark back for another
Speaker 1: photo engagement.
Speaker 2: No, no, I'll take it out in the wild and
Speaker 2: I'll take it. I'm not taking in the corporate office.
Speaker 1: Yes, we're gonna get you. Yes, it's gonna be like
Speaker 1: one of those yearbook photos where they take you outside
Speaker 1: and put you up against the oak church. That photographer
Speaker 1: was brought here for that window of time. She does not.
Speaker 1: She's not just downstairs. She's part of the photo team. Bud,
Speaker 1: you gotta plug in on this office. No, they we
Speaker 1: outsource that team. Plug in into the office. We're gonna
Speaker 1: have you come in on an off day too, get
Speaker 1: your makeup done. I will literally drive to Canada before
Speaker 1: any of that happens. Let's take a break and we'll
Speaker 1: be right back. Bloody dumdeed dumb Awards season has calm everyone. Awards.
Speaker 1: Why the can't we have them too? So vustly it
Speaker 1: is time for the Aten Awards not to be confused
Speaker 1: with the Avian Awards. Certainly not. I mean one's more
Speaker 1: fun than the other. Yeah, and it's not this one
Speaker 1: all right now? You see it everywhere. I weirdly, we've
Speaker 1: never done this, and that's kind of something we had
Speaker 1: to rectify. We have never gotcha. That one got a
Speaker 1: Joe Koi over here. Pat's been too many an A
Speaker 1: Vien Awards, that's why he's co hosted them. You had
Speaker 1: a memorable pattern with a Brianna Banks back in O two.
Speaker 1: I remember, Yeah, who can forget? All? Right? Now, let's
Speaker 1: get into it. It is time to share our picks
Speaker 1: and what we did we did is a collective a
Speaker 1: voting system that mirrors what the Associate depressed us with
Speaker 1: the MVP Award, which is a voting that breaks it down.
Speaker 1: You get five votes and a first place vote is
Speaker 1: ten points. Second place vote is what five points? Was it? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And three to two one? And for the NFL the
Speaker 1: official awards which are announced at the honors and all
Speaker 1: that stuff. That is just for the MVP, but we
Speaker 1: did it for the other major awards as well, So
Speaker 1: let's go through them all. And we had a nice
Speaker 1: voting body this year. It was the three of us.
Speaker 1: Claybond was with us as well, Nick Shook, who's another
Speaker 1: member of the ATN Hall of Fame, the Sunday Night Man,
Speaker 1: and beyond the Pipe you have Colleen Wolfe also turned
Speaker 1: in her ballot. Also behind the Glass, Big Funk and
Speaker 1: Eric Roberts.
Speaker 3: Wow, that is streets are talking like, should the producers
Speaker 3: combine to have one producer vote?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 3: Have they they earned a totally separate, separate and equal vote.
Speaker 3: I would have just bullied Randy into taking my votes.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, I know you're gonna stand up for yourself,
Speaker 1: and honest they deserve it. But of course we do, okay,
Speaker 1: But if it would have been one vote, I just
Speaker 1: would have tooken the vote. That's fine, okay, I got
Speaker 1: developing news.
Speaker 3: By the way, I'm glad we learned more about your
Speaker 3: dynamics between the two of you.
Speaker 4: That was fascinating.
Speaker 1: On ha ha. My mom has made a statement on
Speaker 1: the changing of the guard in Seattle. Oh okay, mom
Speaker 1: says forward statement, but incredibly powerful. Football just got uglier. Wow,
Speaker 1: this crush has been decades decades old, right it started
Speaker 1: in the Pete was one and done with the Jets. Yeah,
Speaker 1: in ninety four, so thirty years. And yeah, she's been
Speaker 1: married almost fifteen five fifty years.
Speaker 3: A fair amount of Maybe that was a sneaky key
Speaker 3: to his college success, you know, going in those I
Speaker 3: don't know how sneaky recruiting and pressing the moms. Okay, unbelievable.
Speaker 3: That's salt and pepper hair will take you far. All right,
Speaker 3: let's get to it now, MVP. And it isn't wait.
Speaker 3: My dad also has now replied to his statements. I
Speaker 3: put Keith and Deb on the thread. Any phone call
Speaker 3: home is also they're always both on the phone.
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, same with my parents always together Keith has
Speaker 1: chimed in directly after my mom, another jet coach that failed.
Speaker 1: Hey man, it's a little competition there, sounds like to me,
Speaker 1: he doesn't seem too concerned. No, all right, let's get
Speaker 1: to it, MVP. It is a runaway. My only concern
Speaker 1: with this, and I shared this with producer Eric, was
Speaker 1: that we're gonna be a little too chalky as a
Speaker 1: group to what everyone else is gonna say. But you know,
Speaker 1: we can do it right way.
Speaker 4: We can get into how we disagree if we want.
Speaker 1: Sure of it. I hope we disagree, because that makes
Speaker 1: for good podcasting, all right. The MVP of the league
Speaker 1: in a landslide, Lamar Jackson, who got first place votes
Speaker 1: from everyone except for Shookie Nick Schook, gave his first
Speaker 1: place vote to Christian McCaffrey. Lamar got seventy five what
Speaker 1: do they call points? I don't even know how they
Speaker 1: do it votes. Seems like a point points whatever, you
Speaker 1: can call him whatever you want. Second place a little
Speaker 1: bit of surprise, I thought, but narrowly edging out Dak.
Speaker 1: Christian McCaffrey got twenty seven points, Dak twenty six, fourth
Speaker 1: place Rock Purty and then fifth place Tyreek Hill so
Speaker 1: pretty it's sixteen points Tyreek, Cattleven and Mark. I really
Speaker 1: do think I think I think Party might do or
Speaker 1: I'm almost certain Party will do better in the AP voting.
Speaker 1: But I think it just goes to show you there
Speaker 1: was that lingering idea of where Purdy's talents stack up
Speaker 1: to everything else that's going on around him. But also
Speaker 1: I think that stage on Christmas Night flopping essentially and
Speaker 1: his change.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I went Lamar number one and Party number two.
Speaker 2: Colleen also had Party number two. I think it was
Speaker 2: like a really unique year for MVP, where like they
Speaker 2: all seem to square off and duel against each other
Speaker 2: down the stretch. And I think that you know, Lamar
Speaker 2: passed every test, he passed every test and did stump
Speaker 2: he you know's there was no real second place to me.
Speaker 3: Well, also, there's another forty nine er that outvoted you know,
Speaker 3: Party in this voting, And I think that that's part
Speaker 3: of it is that reasonable minds can look at that
Speaker 3: team and think McCaffrey is the most important guy on it,
Speaker 3: especially this year, and I think reasonable minds could go
Speaker 3: purty one.
Speaker 4: My big takeaway from.
Speaker 3: Doing all these awards is there are no awards, maybe
Speaker 3: the exception of Offensive Rookie of the Year, but we
Speaker 3: could even get into that with the season Pooka had
Speaker 3: that that seemed like there's bad choices, Like I don't
Speaker 3: think Dak or Purty are bad choices here, Like it's
Speaker 3: not it's completely reasonable to vote for them first over Laura,
Speaker 3: I voted Lamar first, CMC second, So I ended up
Speaker 3: chalk with what we ended up with.
Speaker 4: But like even Josh Allen's like not that crazy.
Speaker 3: He ended up six then ours like I wouldn't be
Speaker 3: surprised if he gets in the top five in the
Speaker 3: In the final voting.
Speaker 1: I had Dak. I gave him my second place vote
Speaker 1: and Party my third place vote. But I could have
Speaker 1: easily went the other way on that, but it was
Speaker 1: a very clear Luay Lamar closed that he deserved it,
Speaker 1: and the Ravens are sitting on a buy right now
Speaker 1: as a result, in large part because of Jackson's incredible.
Speaker 3: You didn't mention the votes at the very end Stafford.
Speaker 3: I gave Stafford a fourth place vote.
Speaker 1: I like that. Somebody like it's usual a local beat
Speaker 1: guy and yeah, we're in Los Angeles.
Speaker 4: I like Miles Garrett got a fourth place vote. I
Speaker 4: don't know who that was.
Speaker 3: And TJ Star got a fifth place vote. And then,
Speaker 3: in a total stunner, Colleen voted your mom.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she got whose mom is? She pointed to your mom.
Speaker 1: I guess it's just it applies to anyone, anyone, and
Speaker 1: you know what, moms don't get enough credit. So I
Speaker 1: think that was a great one.
Speaker 2: That's a great voter. She's sort of quietly voted for
Speaker 2: millions of people. Yeah, that was at least probably more
Speaker 2: than millions.
Speaker 3: Eric not only voted Josh Allen third, which I think
Speaker 3: is very reasonable, he made Randy put him on the
Speaker 3: ballot too, so that was where those votes came from.
Speaker 1: Twisted his arm violently. All right, let's move to offense,
Speaker 1: Jordan love Guys, it's like a fifth place Offensive Player
Speaker 1: of the Year now, this one it made me think, if, if,
Speaker 1: how did the voters do with this, because hypothetically, if
Speaker 1: you vote, you know, quarterbacks and the MVP rankings, do
Speaker 1: you just eliminate them from this entirely or do you
Speaker 1: put them? But I did. I took them out.
Speaker 2: I had the same questions like, why wouldn't I take
Speaker 2: like the second best quarterback that I voted for an
Speaker 2: MVP and just make them offensive play of the Year,
Speaker 2: but I went zero quarterback strategy.
Speaker 4: Sometimes quarterbacks have won both.
Speaker 3: I remember Peyton Manning did it, for instance, and that's
Speaker 3: why I've always been annoyed by this award.
Speaker 4: That then your two nebula and if.
Speaker 3: You vote, well, it's also like if you voted them second,
Speaker 3: then I'll vote for the quarterback first. I'd say it's
Speaker 3: most valuable non quarterback.
Speaker 1: All right. With that said, here is the Offensive Player
Speaker 1: of the Year, and it's deserved. It is the running
Speaker 1: back of the forty nine ers. Christian McCaffrey was sixty
Speaker 1: five votes. If you're watching it on YouTube, we got
Speaker 1: some really nice graphics. Was that big funk on the graphics? No,
Speaker 1: that was me, guys. Not only it was funk, but
Speaker 1: Roberts twisted taking votes from funking now taking credit to
Speaker 1: CMC got first place votes from let's see everybody except
Speaker 1: for Claybon who went with Tyreek Hill, and I gave
Speaker 1: CD Lamb some love. You know, I'm in a love
Speaker 1: affair with CD right now. But it was CMC finishing first,
Speaker 1: Tyreek Hill distant second thirty eight points, CD third twenty
Speaker 1: eight points, Josh Allen fifteen points, Dac with six points,
Speaker 1: which tells you, yeah, the quarterbacks are kind of floating
Speaker 1: in another world. Why Tyreek over CMC Patrick.
Speaker 6: I was just looking at who stood out the most
Speaker 6: among their peers, and I don't think you could say
Speaker 6: anybody came even close to what Tyrek did as a
Speaker 6: wide receiver this year and especially those past cuple when
Speaker 6: Tyreek was not one and he was still dominating in
Speaker 6: many aspects of the game, like he hobbles back on
Speaker 6: the field to make a game winning play.
Speaker 1: Uh. That just that just kind of sent me over
Speaker 1: the edge.
Speaker 6: Not necessarily that, and I knew Christian was going to
Speaker 6: get some votes and maybe there was some vote chachinery.
Speaker 6: Uh with leaving Christian off of my Offensive Player of
Speaker 6: the Year.
Speaker 4: It took them off entirely. Wow, it didn't. It didn't help.
Speaker 1: It did not ultimately matter. And that's a strategy though.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's it's one of you know, weird people do
Speaker 6: it all the time and never acknowledge it. I will
Speaker 6: acknowledge it as trash. But I tried and I failed.
Speaker 1: Oh that's interesting. Does that actually happen? Oh? Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: especially ridiculous all right, let's move to unless anybody knows
Speaker 1: something out there.
Speaker 3: I like that we both me and you gave Kira
Speaker 3: and Williams some love as a fourth place pop.
Speaker 1: What what a year? What a difference maker for that
Speaker 1: offense in Los Angeles? All right, Defensive player of the year.
Speaker 1: And now this is a wide open year because I
Speaker 1: thought Miles Garrett obviously was a leader early on, and
Speaker 1: then he gets banged up and production the production dip,
Speaker 1: so that opened the door? Could anyone walk in that door?
Speaker 1: Here is the winner with sixty eight votes. I don't
Speaker 1: like same points for some reason, it doesn't have the
Speaker 1: same votes.
Speaker 4: Make sense.
Speaker 1: Rave toss sixty eight votes. Miles Garrett wins it. Mark
Speaker 1: congratulations TJ. Watt, even though he picked up a couple
Speaker 1: of sacks there before going down with the injury. In
Speaker 1: Week seventeen thirty eight thirty eight votes. Maker Parsons thirty
Speaker 1: three votes. Max Crosby got seven who I forgot about Max? Sorry?
Speaker 1: But and Doron Bland with seven, who had all those
Speaker 1: pick sixes. You know that happens too, it does. I
Speaker 1: mentioned I missed the I missed Zay Flowers too.
Speaker 2: Eric knows that I was working on this toiling right
Speaker 2: up to the final minutes, and there were were there edits.
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know how much he wants me
Speaker 1: to pull out what happened, how many edits, what it called.
Speaker 2: I didn't understand the assignment out of the gate in
Speaker 2: terms of going five deep with everyone.
Speaker 1: So he gave me the winner, and then he gave
Speaker 1: me the top three, and then he gave me the
Speaker 1: top five. It was like a reveal.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, I wanted to make it at an
Speaker 2: element of showmanship. Brahma to it and they see it.
Speaker 1: That's an next level showmanship when it's just you and
Speaker 1: the producer, privor he wasn't asking for that. How did
Speaker 1: Colleen do with the assignment?
Speaker 5: By the way, great want Yeah, one email and an
Speaker 5: extra your mom in there.
Speaker 1: So she was let's see the way this broke down.
Speaker 1: Miles got first place votes from Sestog, Connie Shook, Claybahn, Randy,
Speaker 1: and Eric. I gave Greg. You gave him a second
Speaker 1: place vote, and I gave him a third place vote.
Speaker 3: You went TJ Wyt, I went Michael Parsons again. I
Speaker 3: don't I think those three are all really strong. I
Speaker 3: tend to think Miles Garrett will win, but wouldn't I
Speaker 3: think TJ. Watt as a as a real chance.
Speaker 1: I think it will be closer. Yeah, I think it'll
Speaker 1: be closer than they actually know because they don't do
Speaker 1: the MVP style voting for anything other than MVP, so
Speaker 1: this is just one pick and doe.
Speaker 3: But even then it could. I believe when TJ won
Speaker 3: it before, I could be wrong. That was one of
Speaker 3: those years, like he had less than twenty votes, but
Speaker 3: he had the most votes, and something similar could happen.
Speaker 3: Parsons passes just my I think he's the best, and
Speaker 3: then there is some good numbers for it, like he
Speaker 3: does have way more pressures than anyone in the league.
Speaker 3: His pass rush win rate is significantly better than anyone.
Speaker 3: Miles Garrett is a strong number two there, and then
Speaker 3: it's a pretty big drop to number three. Parsons faces
Speaker 3: the most amount of double teams in the league. He's
Speaker 3: beaten double teams the most, and so just trying, I
Speaker 3: think TJ. Watt would be a good vote. I think Garrett,
Speaker 3: who was my second place, would be a great vote too.
Speaker 3: But just like pulling them apart. Once I saw those
Speaker 3: sort of news things, I was like that was enough
Speaker 3: for me to just back what my gut tells me.
Speaker 1: Which is, by the way, why I threw Aaron Donald
Speaker 1: a vote, because his pop the hood metrics are all
Speaker 1: still dominant. He's always commanding all those double and triple
Speaker 1: teams and still uh you know he sat he was
Speaker 1: setting the table for your boy young Kobe this season.
Speaker 1: You think he's been better than Miles Garrett this season.
Speaker 4: He voted the bottom of the part place, but I
Speaker 4: gave him a vote.
Speaker 1: Okay, I had Garrett third. I think I think they
Speaker 1: really any of those three.
Speaker 2: It does come down I think also just like the
Speaker 2: experience of watching football and the player itself, because it's
Speaker 2: like I completely hear your argument for for Michael and
Speaker 2: also for TJ. But if I think like Garrett has
Speaker 2: been at a defensive player of the year level throughout
Speaker 2: his throughout the last couple of seasons, and this was
Speaker 2: just a little bit more of a special performance on
Speaker 2: a special defense.
Speaker 3: I like, I do actually like rewarding him like it
Speaker 3: was one reason why I had him second versus third
Speaker 3: versus It's like what's already won one. I do think
Speaker 3: that's okay to take into account, Like James Harrison won one,
Speaker 3: and he was very deserving a couple of times, and
Speaker 3: I and he kind of won it. It was like
Speaker 3: Pacino winning for Sense of a Woman order. He won
Speaker 3: it in the year that I didn't think he should
Speaker 3: have won it, but I was like, it was good
Speaker 3: that he won it.
Speaker 4: I thought it was good. So I think that's okay
Speaker 4: for Miles Garrett.
Speaker 1: Well, in terms of my ethics, I give it to
Speaker 1: the best man. Yeah, outright.
Speaker 6: It's kind of like a makeup call in with Jenson's
Speaker 6: you have two bat calls instead of one.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but if they're all like if you're just like
Speaker 4: breaking ties or whatever.
Speaker 1: You were talking about your personal level of integrity when
Speaker 1: it comes to being forthright with people. Earlier, I wrote
Speaker 1: that down for myself. By the way, I want to
Speaker 1: tell you best man for the job. That's my credo.
Speaker 1: That's where I stand. Mark your next Later in the show,
Speaker 1: I believe Myles Garrett was the best player. No, I
Speaker 1: want something more like a personal stance. Yeah, on integrity,
Speaker 1: that trying to cook one up.
Speaker 3: I'm saying with big life decisions like firing a man, Yes,
Speaker 3: I was saying that an important decision.
Speaker 1: I'm not questioning with you. Let's go. I'm just saying
Speaker 1: I was sharing. Yeah, some ethics, best man, we've all
Speaker 1: we're all the better for it. Dan, all right, let's
Speaker 1: move to where are we at now? Offensive Rookie of
Speaker 1: the Year. This one was surprising. Hit it hit the
Speaker 1: uh what is that called again? It's a drum roll? Now,
Speaker 1: It's timpany, That's what it is. It's the timpany Timpani.
Speaker 1: By the way, someone sorry, somebody on Twitter gave me
Speaker 1: something really something to chew on that. I loved it. Oh,
Speaker 1: here it is from Hugh Robertson. People were wondering, those
Speaker 1: people being me, what do you call it when you're
Speaker 1: strumming the harp? I would say strumming, But that's what
Speaker 1: I thought too well. Hugh Robertson tells us that this
Speaker 1: Hugh Robertson tells us that flourish on the harp, leading
Speaker 1: into new horizons money is called a glissando. That's a word,
Speaker 1: a cascade of notes rippling into each other, not unlike
Speaker 1: the woe is currently befallowing the Philadelphia Eagles. What a
Speaker 1: beautiful tweet, heed the call, great tweet. Let me hear
Speaker 1: that again. This year a Glissando. That was multiple. That
Speaker 1: was Glissando, Glissandos. When there's two, it's Glissandos. All right,
Speaker 1: now give me the timpany because it's time to announce
Speaker 1: the offensive Rookie the Year. This one was closer than
Speaker 1: I thought it was going to be. But with sixty
Speaker 1: five votes, you know it's the quarterback of the Houston Texans.
Speaker 1: He's getting ready to knock out Marks Brown. CJ. Stroud
Speaker 1: the Offensive Rookie of the Year for Around the NFL,
Speaker 1: just narrowly edging out Puka Nakua by ten votes, sixty
Speaker 1: five to fifty five. First place votes for CJ from Zuzzar, Greg, Mark,
Speaker 1: Colleen and Shook, second plays votes from claybon Funk and
Speaker 1: Eric first plays votes to Puka For those last three names, Mark,
Speaker 1: it's Stroud, though Stroud wins it. Yeah, I got a
Speaker 1: landslide for us. It was Pukah has been incredible. He
Speaker 1: broke a record dating back to nineteen sixty and from
Speaker 1: wire to wire he was a fascination. I mean, for me,
Speaker 1: it's a degree of difficulty, like c J.
Speaker 2: Stroud coming in and right away doing things that you'd
Speaker 2: expect a quarterback to do in year three and four
Speaker 2: and looking like a potential, like I thought at times
Speaker 2: a possible MVP CABET candidate, and like Shook gave him
Speaker 2: an MVP vote, and it's like Stroud has completely changed
Speaker 2: the organization. And I just think I gave that a
Speaker 2: little bit more value than wide receiver.
Speaker 3: I Yeah, I struggle with that because I would want
Speaker 3: to give it to a receiver if he was that
Speaker 3: exceptional as a receiver, he has a case to be made.
Speaker 3: Maybe not All Pro because the only but second team
Speaker 3: All Pro the top four wide receivers in the league.
Speaker 1: But Stroud, to me, was a top six quarterback in
Speaker 1: the league.
Speaker 3: So like, if Stroud wasn't this exceptional, then I would
Speaker 3: have gone Puka. Like you look at some of the
Speaker 3: previous winners, Pooka would have won it over Garrett Wilson,
Speaker 3: Jamar Chase is close, Herbert would have been close.
Speaker 4: Kyler.
Speaker 3: I would have said he would have won it over
Speaker 3: Saquon Camara, maybe not Dak. That was an incredible rookie year,
Speaker 3: Like it had to be a really special rookie year
Speaker 3: to beat up Pooka, But I think Stroud had that year.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you're right. This is one of those
Speaker 1: you look back and wow, quarterback who hit the ground
Speaker 1: running as a star, and then you can understand why
Speaker 1: people are tossing drinks in Charlotte because you had a
Speaker 1: chance and passed on that man. By the way, I
Speaker 1: threw Bijon a vote, and I was surprised to see that.
Speaker 1: You know what, Greg, you had mentioned that. I think
Speaker 1: he finished over fourteen hundred total yards and it was
Speaker 1: a lot of incompetence around him.
Speaker 4: You had a fifth place vote.
Speaker 1: Yeah, in the play calling, and I just almost a
Speaker 1: nod of appreciation that I still see you as a
Speaker 1: potential super stars, So thank you for doing your best
Speaker 1: and trying circumstances.
Speaker 4: At the bottom of the list was more mixed up.
Speaker 3: Sam Laporto was a strong third, and yeah, he would
Speaker 3: have been a good candidate in a lot of years.
Speaker 3: Jayden Reid and Jamiir Gibbs were tied for fifth.
Speaker 4: Tank. I assume that's not Tank Bigsby.
Speaker 3: I don't think so. That's Del Tank Del. Yes, I
Speaker 3: don't know why I had Tanks Biggs beyond their brain.
Speaker 3: Jordan Addison gets a little vote, eight, Chen gets a vote.
Speaker 3: Z Flowers gets four.
Speaker 1: There we go, all right, let's move to this Defensive
Speaker 1: Rookie of the Year. This one I struggled with, but
Speaker 1: here we go, Defensive Rookie of the Year. The winner
Speaker 1: is just like the Jets last year, the Texans sweep
Speaker 1: the category. Will Anderson, the defensive end winsor was sixty
Speaker 1: three votes. We have Jalen Carter, the Eagles defensive tackle,
Speaker 1: thirty eight votes, and then Witherspoon of Seattle gets twenty five.
Speaker 1: That's the top three. Young Kobe just misses out on
Speaker 1: a medal twenty four points twenty four votes. Excuse me,
Speaker 1: I struggled with this one. Guys. For instance, I gave
Speaker 1: Will Anderson a third place vote, and Greg, I say,
Speaker 1: you gave him a second place vote, and then everyone
Speaker 1: else gave him first place vote except for excuse me, Shook,
Speaker 1: who gave his second place vote as well. Mark, what
Speaker 1: was your thinking on this one?
Speaker 2: I think Will Anderson is the kind of player that
Speaker 2: helped the Texans in every aspect of what his position is.
Speaker 2: He was good against the run, he's a good pass rusher.
Speaker 2: He hit the ground running looking like the guy from
Speaker 2: the start. And for me, I thought Jalen Carter and
Speaker 2: the whole Eagles experience probably tinge my thinking there a
Speaker 2: little bit.
Speaker 1: But I think the Houston Texans best draft class around.
Speaker 6: If there was a more cohesive and consistent defensive not
Speaker 6: just planned but effort from Philadelphia might have changed things.
Speaker 6: But to watch Will Anderson playing hurt towards the end
Speaker 6: of the year and like still impact the games, whereas
Speaker 6: the Eagles defenses.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I see. I was the only one that gave
Speaker 1: Carter first place vote because I was kind of looking
Speaker 1: at some of the production and then the analytics.
Speaker 4: And his past fresh win rate and everything like that.
Speaker 1: His ranking is not amongst rookies. He is already one
Speaker 1: of the very best defensive tackles in the league in
Speaker 1: terms of all the generating pressure and just being a
Speaker 1: cog in the middle of that defense. He's already a star.
Speaker 1: And I think I didn't want to penalize him because
Speaker 1: the rest of the defense has completely fallen off of.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought those three players and I would put
Speaker 3: Kobe Turner in there were so close that I actually,
Speaker 3: you know, I put some I tried to figure out
Speaker 3: there is almost nothing separating these three guys. You could
Speaker 3: make different arguments. I think for all of them. I
Speaker 3: think I voted Kobe Turner first. The producers didn't give
Speaker 3: me in a fifth place vote. Once again, I just
Speaker 3: wonder about handing them this much.
Speaker 1: Oh that's why he was.
Speaker 4: I mean, I didn't know.
Speaker 3: I even Pace gets third place and we we can't
Speaker 3: get Kobe Turner. And uh, Kobe Turner plays interior defensive line,
Speaker 3: so he only had eight or nine less pressures than
Speaker 3: Will Anderson. He was in the top ten of all
Speaker 3: defensive tackles in terms of interior pressures. Now, Jalen Carter
Speaker 3: actually was like slightly ahead of him even too, And
Speaker 3: I thought, okay, is Aaron Donald setting him up? And
Speaker 3: then you think, like, has Aaron Donald ever have a
Speaker 3: defensive tackle literally, have any stats next to him? No,
Speaker 3: So that didn't seem like it's a really strong argument.
Speaker 3: There wasn't much separating all these guys. They all were
Speaker 3: very good in terms of their past rush win we
Speaker 3: Will Anderson was probably the best run stopper.
Speaker 4: But I gave it to.
Speaker 3: Turner, give him a little extra love. Clayon didn't give
Speaker 3: him anything either. Yeah, Yahdabi gets a fourth Why.
Speaker 4: I thought, No, I like that one.
Speaker 1: I like that. That's fine. That Yeah, Yeah, disappointed Greg Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's Jevin Witherspoon that Greg hates. No.
Speaker 4: I put him fifth.
Speaker 1: He came, well, it's Brian Branch.
Speaker 4: I put Branch okay, So then leave me alone.
Speaker 1: All right. Finally we gotta let's bring this thing in
Speaker 1: for a landing. The Coach of the Year. It's the
Speaker 1: Coach of the Year. Very competitive this season. Demiko Demiko
Speaker 1: Ryans wins it surprising do we have the voting grid
Speaker 1: on that one? With sixty eight votes? Stefanski, who is
Speaker 1: my first place pick, comes in a kind of a
Speaker 1: deep second. Only you and I voted Stefanski first, and
Speaker 1: then Kyle Shanahan gets twelve points, Shane Steike in eleven,
Speaker 1: Dan Campbell's seven. That's the top five. Okay, Clay Bound,
Speaker 1: who did you have first? I had Tomko first?
Speaker 6: Tell us and we don't have to go back too
Speaker 6: far where there's like a Prosperity Gospels slash comedian guy
Speaker 6: like surreptitiously recording meetings in Houston. They fire back to
Speaker 6: back coaches. There's all sorts of stuff happening, and then
Speaker 6: Demiko comes in. They have a candidate for Offensive Rookie
Speaker 6: of the Year, Defensive Rookie of the year, they're in
Speaker 6: the playoffs in a division that we did not think
Speaker 6: the Texans would win.
Speaker 1: I think considering all of that, Dimiko was the coach
Speaker 1: of the Year.
Speaker 2: I really struggle with this one because it's my second one.
Speaker 2: I think he fits, he checks every box. I think
Speaker 2: the thing about Stefanski that outweighed everything else for me
Speaker 2: was if you knew any team going into the year
Speaker 2: would have five quarterbacks. It's an obvious argument, but like,
Speaker 2: to survive all that and like, really have bad quarterback
Speaker 2: play through eighty five percent of the season and stay
Speaker 2: afloat that's good coaching. Like, and I think that he
Speaker 2: also is someone his demeanor after so many years of
Speaker 2: wreckage in Cleveland, Like he's just got this calm, cool
Speaker 2: demeanor and he's now won it twice and he's been
Speaker 2: the same guy the entire time.
Speaker 4: Well, we'll see if he wins. This makes me think
Speaker 4: maybe Tamiko ryans.
Speaker 1: Well, if he's wanted here, it's a dope. Yeah. Uh,
Speaker 1: that was why we went over over unders the other
Speaker 1: day there. The Watson thing was so overpowering that I
Speaker 1: thought that got in the way of like looking at
Speaker 1: the roster and that there was talent on both sides
Speaker 1: of the ball, and they got the coaching. The defensive
Speaker 1: coordinator was looked like an upgrade, and but what ended
Speaker 1: up happening was you lose Watson even even though he
Speaker 1: wasn't playing at a high level. You lose Chubb and
Speaker 1: for them to somehow not only the offensive line, the line,
Speaker 1: you know, for them not only to survive. It's it's
Speaker 1: not like they snuck into the playoff at nine and eight.
Speaker 1: They had eleven wins going into the last week of
Speaker 1: the season and then rested their starters. And I just
Speaker 1: think Stefanski deserves so much credit for that. And you know,
Speaker 1: with the Flacco magic, like Flacco deserves obviously the most credit,
Speaker 1: but Flacco was for the Jets and anyone else the
Speaker 1: last five years a very hit or miss proposition, usually
Speaker 1: a miss. And now he's playing like an All Pro
Speaker 1: and Stefanski is an offensive dude, and I just I
Speaker 1: think he does. I think this is his award. I'd
Speaker 1: be very surprised if Demiko actually gets it.
Speaker 3: I think Tomiko has a chance just because you know,
Speaker 3: they won six games in the last two years and
Speaker 3: that's that's a big deal. Yeah, And I think it
Speaker 3: goes into what a what are you rewarding for the
Speaker 3: whole job of coaching. I think Stefanski did that exceptionally
Speaker 3: as well, because you're not judging him on his offensive
Speaker 3: production that was that's one little ding against him. Is
Speaker 3: as well as he's done making them competitive, especially late
Speaker 3: in the season. They have your twenty seven to twenty
Speaker 3: eighth and like Epaver playing, he's an offensive coach, but
Speaker 3: he was good at hiring Jim Schwartz and getting everything together.
Speaker 3: But I think Demiko Ryan's there is something that's that
Speaker 3: you can't even calculate. And I think Kyle Shanahan that's
Speaker 3: why I had him so high too. I think I
Speaker 3: had him second or third, and I can't remember who
Speaker 3: I had between Stefanski ands Shanahan.
Speaker 4: But uh, like the everything that.
Speaker 3: Goes into it, not just calling the play, is hiring
Speaker 3: the coaches, like helping to bring in the players. Everything
Speaker 3: in Ryan's changed that culture, but Stefanski has to, and
Speaker 3: so the either one would beget Yeah.
Speaker 6: I feel like this award has been relative to the
Speaker 6: expectations for a very long time.
Speaker 3: Mike Smith won it multiple times. Come on, It's like
Speaker 3: the expectations were low because Mike Smith was the coach.
Speaker 1: And Tinnis Allen's gonna win next year. Baby, all right,
Speaker 1: good stuff, those are our awards. You'll get the actual well,
Speaker 1: these are the actual awards in my mind, but the
Speaker 1: ones that are seeing as gospel you have to wait
Speaker 1: till NFL honors a few days before the Super Bowl.
Speaker 1: We're gonna be back on Thursday with the preview of
Speaker 1: Super wild Card weekend. I think it's gonna be one
Speaker 1: of the most competitive and compelling ones ever. So thank
Speaker 1: you for listening so far this week and more to come.
Speaker 1: And Patrick, you've said it all. Anything to add, Yes,
Speaker 1: if the Saints started Jamis Winston next year and he
Speaker 1: lost every single game and had one tie, he and
Speaker 1: Dennis Allen would have the same win loss record percentage wise.
Speaker 1: So there it is. Okay, that's good.
Speaker 4: That's a fact.
Speaker 1: Wind, that's a fact. Jack, all Right, till Thursday. Heed
Speaker 1: the call.