1 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 1: Hey, fellow travelers. I'm Lori Gottlieb. I'm the author of 2 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 1: Maybe You Should Talk to Someone, and I write the 3 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:13,400 Speaker 1: Dear Therapist column for the Atlantic. And I'm Guy Winch. 4 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:16,280 Speaker 1: I wrote Emotional First Aid, and I write the Dear 5 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 1: Guy called Him for Ted and this is Dear Therapists. 6 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:23,079 Speaker 1: So many of you have been asking for new episodes 7 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: of Deer Therapists, and we have good news. Guy and 8 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 1: I are hard at work getting season two of our 9 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 1: show ready for all of you. But while you're waiting, 10 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 1: we wanted to share this conversation that the two of 11 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: us had recently on Instagram Live, where we answered some 12 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 1: of your questions and took you behind the scenes of 13 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: Dear Therapists before we jump in. If you want to 14 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:45,239 Speaker 1: follow us on Instagram, I'm at Lorie Gottlieb, Underscore author 15 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:48,240 Speaker 1: and Guy is at Guy Winch. And if you missed 16 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:50,479 Speaker 1: any episodes from season one or just want to hear 17 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: them again, now is a great time to catch up. Okay, 18 00:00:53,920 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: here's our conversation. We are so thrilled that so many 19 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 1: of you have listened to our very first season of 20 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:07,959 Speaker 1: Dear Therapists. It has been such a journey getting this 21 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 1: to you, producing all of these episodes, reading the thousands 22 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: of letters that have come in, I wish we could 23 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 1: get to all of them, and that's why we're doing 24 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 1: a season two and hopefully more. But all of you 25 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 1: who have listened shared told us how the advice worked 26 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:27,479 Speaker 1: for you. Um told us how something that we said 27 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 1: to somebody resonated with you. Somebody wrote they almost skipped 28 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 1: over the episode with Liam because they thought that it 29 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 1: wouldn't relate to them, and yet it related so much 30 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 1: to this person because of you know, these issues of 31 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 1: how much do I please my family of origin and 32 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 1: how much do I please myself? And how to communicate 33 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 1: with your siblings and how to communicate with your parents. 34 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 1: I mean, it's all about relationships essentially, and those are transferable. 35 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 1: It's all the same. Yeah, So we have so many 36 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: questions that came in and I think we're gonna We're 37 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 1: gonna right to them. We wanted to just take you 38 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 1: behind the scenes of our of our very first season. Yes, 39 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 1: and I just want to say something, right we there 40 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:11,240 Speaker 1: were so many letters we couldn't get to and it 41 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:14,639 Speaker 1: hurts us. It hurts to say no to some letters. 42 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: You know that if you wrote to us and we 43 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 1: didn't get to you. It was painful. Not some of you. 44 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:21,119 Speaker 1: We might get you in the second season. But keep 45 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 1: sending in those letters because it makes a huge in 46 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 1: actually everyone who sees them. Yeah, and a lot of 47 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:28,920 Speaker 1: times there are common themes in the letters too. So 48 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 1: if we didn't get to your specific letter, hopefully you 49 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:34,839 Speaker 1: got something out of a letter that was similar. Yes, 50 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:36,919 Speaker 1: but let's get to the questions, because we have a 51 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 1: ton of it. Yea, all right, I'd love to know 52 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: how you prepare for the sessions, so I think people 53 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: would probably be surprised. You know. What's what's great about 54 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 1: what we do is very much we want to give 55 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 1: you the experience of what would happen in a real 56 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 1: therapy session. And so when somebody comes in, we don't 57 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 1: prepare and advance. Um, would they sit down and we 58 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: have a real human connection in the mode met with somebody. 59 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:02,920 Speaker 1: And that's what we're trying to do on the podcast 60 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: and to give you the listener the experience as well. 61 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 1: So we get the letter, Um, we have the pseudonym 62 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 1: for the person, and we never call them by their 63 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 1: actual name because we will slip up. We've learned from experience. 64 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 1: So um, all we have is the letter and the pseudonym, 65 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 1: and off we go. And what's interesting is that we 66 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 1: then haven't spoken about it among ourselves. Laurie and I 67 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 1: don't speak about it. So it's not only that we 68 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 1: don't know exactly what's going to unfold. We don't know 69 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 1: what the other person is thinking. I don't know what 70 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: Laurie is thinking about the letter and where this should go, 71 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 1: and she doesn't know where I think what I'm thinking 72 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 1: about where this should go. And that's part of the 73 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 1: fun for us to be in that moment is two therapists. 74 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 1: We really have to not to speak about what's best 75 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:49,640 Speaker 1: with the person, but where the other person is going 76 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 1: and how to find that common ground. And I think 77 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: that part of what's been so exciting for us to discover, 78 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 1: because you can't know this until you do it, is that, oh, well, 79 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 1: we actually can do a good job of like getting 80 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: each other and finding common ground a therapist that we 81 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 1: can spontaneously in a moment take that person too, and 82 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 1: the listeners as a result, and that's been really working 83 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 1: well where we won't short. So so that's been a blessing. Yeah, 84 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 1: and I think the advantage of having two therapists. So 85 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:20,200 Speaker 1: I think that for anyone who writes into us, what 86 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 1: you're getting is you're getting sort of a two fer. 87 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 1: You're getting two therapists where you are normally in a 88 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 1: therapy session have one. And so I will see guy 89 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 1: go off onto something that maybe I hadn't thought of, 90 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:32,920 Speaker 1: but then I think, oh, that's a really good path 91 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:35,279 Speaker 1: to go down, and I will go there with him, 92 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:37,920 Speaker 1: and vice versa, and so we really complement each other. 93 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 1: I think having two therapists really benefits the person that 94 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 1: we're working with in that moment. We have a producer 95 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 1: who pre introduced people, and we don't hear any of this. 96 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:50,480 Speaker 1: So our producer knows more about the guest we call 97 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 1: them fellow travelers, than we do at the start of 98 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 1: that session, which is really interesting because he always says 99 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 1: to us after he's like, I had no idea what 100 00:04:57,839 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: was going to go in that direction. And I think 101 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:02,920 Speaker 1: that's the beauty of what we're doing. We're not just 102 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 1: giving advice. We're helping people to self reflect, We're helping 103 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:10,279 Speaker 1: people to perspective, take We're helping to see them something 104 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 1: that doesn't come across maybe right away in a letter. 105 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:16,360 Speaker 1: So when our producer reads a letter, he reads it 106 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 1: a certain way, but when we read a letter, we 107 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:20,839 Speaker 1: read it in a very different way. We know, we're 108 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:23,839 Speaker 1: not going to just deal on the surface of this question. 109 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 1: There's a lot here to unpack in order to really 110 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:30,600 Speaker 1: help this person by the end of those fifty minutes, right, 111 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:32,840 Speaker 1: And we do see the person on sloom because as 112 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 1: therapists we need to see the face, need to see 113 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:37,039 Speaker 1: if they're tearing up, we need to see when they're 114 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 1: looking away. That's you know, you don't get to see 115 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 1: that as as listeners, but we do it. Just very 116 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 1: important information for therapist to see. You know, emotional discussion 117 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 1: on the face is just very very useful. And somebody asked. 118 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 1: One of the questions that we got was, well, when 119 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:54,040 Speaker 1: we put this on YouTube at some point, and that's 120 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: not something that we know right now, because again there's 121 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:58,719 Speaker 1: an anonymity aspect here, right because we want the people 122 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 1: to feel comfortable, we want telling them to worry that 123 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:03,919 Speaker 1: now that being exposed to giving them faith names pseudo names, 124 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 1: and so that's something we're discussing, but it would have 125 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 1: to have a technical feat of obscuring or whatever it is. 126 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:11,679 Speaker 1: So it's a it's a not yet and we'll see 127 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 1: answer to the question about soon. Yeah, I will say that. 128 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:17,600 Speaker 1: That's the one thing we try to do to help 129 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 1: you come into the room with us. Even though you 130 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: can't see the person is we will comment in the 131 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:24,359 Speaker 1: moment like, Oh, I see you're tearing up, or what 132 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 1: just happened there? I saw an expression on your face, 133 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 1: or when we have a couple or we had a 134 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 1: mother and a daughter to say, oh I saw the 135 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 1: way that you reacted to what she just said. We 136 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 1: can see it in their body, We can see it 137 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:36,919 Speaker 1: in their faces, and so we call that out for 138 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:39,159 Speaker 1: you so that you can experience that as well. What 139 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 1: sometimes we we also call out ourselves, like sometimes I 140 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 1: will tear up, or guy will have an emotional reaction 141 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 1: to somebody, and we will say that in the moment 142 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 1: um and we have. If you go back and listen 143 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,160 Speaker 1: to the podcast, you'll hear, oh, wow, you know I'm 144 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 1: that that really was beautiful and tearing up or something 145 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 1: like that. I want to get to a second question, Alory, 146 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:00,040 Speaker 1: because I think it's a reading that is what to 147 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: your hardest situation during the first season, Who was the 148 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 1: hardest to help, and for me it was Molly. So 149 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 1: when my son was crying, I remember one time she 150 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 1: came down the hallway pushed me out of the way 151 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 1: to get to his room and pick him up. At 152 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 1: one point she would tell me, just because you gave 153 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 1: birth doesn't make your mother. So that was very wordful 154 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: to me. You know, these these comments are so devastatingly cruel. Yes, 155 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: it was very wortful. Yeah, Molly's father's suicide was the 156 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 1: name of the episode, and you First of all, my 157 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 1: heart went out to her. I think everyone's heart went 158 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 1: out to her. But my feeling was also I want 159 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 1: to do more than just that one session, that that 160 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 1: one thing that we suggested. I want to really talk 161 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 1: to her more and help her more. I just felt 162 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 1: like this is someone who could really use it, and 163 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 1: someone who really touched me that I really wanted to help. 164 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 1: So to me, it was the hardest doing that just 165 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 1: one off with Molly. When I thought like, oh, no, 166 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: there's more than we need. I think that what's great 167 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 1: is she made so much movement at the end of 168 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 1: that um that I think she was really ready for 169 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 1: and I think what it's going to do, she is 170 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 1: going to get that help. It just will be with 171 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 1: a different set of therapists or single therapists. For me, 172 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 1: I think the hardest episode was the person that I 173 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 1: think was hardest was Scott's wife's affair and I kind 174 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 1: of looked at her and said, what's going on and 175 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 1: she said something like I'm I'm sorry, and so in 176 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 1: my head, I guess I thought it was over. She 177 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 1: was definitely crying and said the next day, I tried 178 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 1: to do things that she said she wanted to do. 179 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 1: I was like, let's go hiking, Let's take the kids hiking. Scott, 180 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:52,200 Speaker 1: in your mind, you thought, I'll do things that she 181 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 1: likes to do and then we'll just move past this. 182 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: Or did you think that there would be a process 183 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 1: by which you had to under stand what had happened 184 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 1: with her with you with the relationship in your mind, 185 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 1: how are you going to recover from this as a couple. 186 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:12,439 Speaker 1: I didn't think that therapy would be very important. We've 187 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 1: never done anything like that before. I think it was 188 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 1: really hard because he was in a place that, you know, 189 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 1: really common when the wife was very ambivalent about staying 190 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 1: in that relationship, and her reasons were staying in that 191 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:29,720 Speaker 1: relationship were very you know, not much about him, and 192 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 1: I think that he interpreted her responses in the way 193 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 1: that he wanted to hear that he really wanted this 194 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 1: marriage to last, and he wanted her to be in 195 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 1: love with him the way he was in love with her, 196 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 1: and she was in a very different place. And it 197 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 1: was heartbreaking when it's very heartbreaking when you see someone 198 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: in so much pain and there and so much pain 199 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 1: that they have to remain in denial because they can't 200 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 1: really tolerate that level of pain yet. And so we 201 00:09:57,080 --> 00:10:00,120 Speaker 1: kind of pierced the veil of his denial of it 202 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 1: just enough to get him to kind of see um, 203 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:05,440 Speaker 1: to get him on a path of how can you 204 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:08,080 Speaker 1: kind of um see this a little bit more clearly 205 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 1: as you move forward. So that one was really challenging, 206 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: and now you know, that was really tough, and we 207 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: actually the intervention we gave him, the assignment we gave 208 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 1: him we thought would be the thing that would truly 209 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 1: pierce to the denial the most direct question. And even 210 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,079 Speaker 1: when we suggested it to him, you were votes feeling like, 211 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 1: oh God, this is gonna be painful, and yet it 212 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 1: pierced it a little, It pricked it a little bit, 213 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 1: but the denial I think was still a little bit 214 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 1: there for him. We hope all the time that would 215 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 1: fade away, but but we thought we were like doing 216 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 1: this big thing, and it turned out that it's still 217 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:40,560 Speaker 1: the denial was still strong. Because when you have hope 218 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 1: and you want something to work out, you will ignore 219 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:44,959 Speaker 1: a lot of information that tells you. By the way 220 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 1: sometimes Yeah, And you know, it's interesting because while we're 221 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 1: helping you to see what happens in therapy, we only 222 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 1: get one session. And I think that the hopeful part 223 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:56,960 Speaker 1: of this and what we love so much about doing 224 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 1: the podcast is you can see that there's this myth 225 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 1: about therapy that you have to be in therapy for 226 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 1: this really long time before any change happens. Change what 227 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 1: happened right away, even if it's small, like a tiny, 228 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 1: imperceptible step. So you can see after one session with 229 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 1: these people, because we get the reporting back, we get 230 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 1: the what happened after, you can see how every single 231 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 1: person has made some sort of shift after just one session. 232 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 1: And I think that that's something you can apply in 233 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 1: your own lives. You know, what did I take away 234 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 1: from this episode and how can I make some shift 235 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 1: in my life right now this week. Yeah. Actually, the 236 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 1: next question, what how do you pick the letters that 237 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 1: get made into an episode. I think that's a really 238 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 1: easy question, and that's that we feel like most questions 239 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 1: are universal and the hard part is eliminating questions. The 240 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 1: the easy part is picking the questions there. We could 241 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 1: we could literally pick any question from the box and 242 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 1: it would probably make for a worthwhile episode. But I 243 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 1: think that we pick the ones that aren't too long, 244 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 1: aren't too short, uh, And I've just enough detail for 245 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 1: us to kind of see whether there's something that you're 246 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 1: listening to. Deal Therapists from my Heart Radio. We'll be 247 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 1: back after a quick break. I'm Laurie Gottlieb and I'm 248 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 1: Guy Winch, and this is de A Therapists. Somebody asked, 249 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 1: what episode do you each relate to? Personally? Got you 250 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: want to start? Yeah? For me, um, it was Libby's 251 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 1: self induced stress. I do feel like the way that 252 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 1: like the college system and everything is set up is 253 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 1: that you kind of have to go through this in 254 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 1: your teenage years, Like there's not really much time for 255 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:50,680 Speaker 1: taking it easier, just like taking a step back, especially 256 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 1: because I know so many other kids are competing. It's 257 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 1: just I do think I understand it makes me happy. 258 00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 1: I just I don't know if I'm able to do 259 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:02,440 Speaker 1: that to reach golf. Maybe it was the sixteen year 260 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:06,560 Speaker 1: old young woman who was an overachiever and put an 261 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:09,559 Speaker 1: incredible amount of stress to excel, excel, excel into everything 262 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:13,200 Speaker 1: possible at the expense of having enough of the life. 263 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 1: And that's a battle language on a regular basis, primarily 264 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: because I really love my work. There's just so many 265 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 1: interesting things that I can do in my work. There's 266 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 1: so many great opportunities that come along. It's hard to 267 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:28,320 Speaker 1: say no to some of them in essence, but I 268 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: do need to balance that with having a life and 269 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 1: being able to relax and not being overly stressed. So 270 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 1: it's something that I really relate to because it's a 271 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 1: it's an ongoing thought and battle that I have to 272 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 1: be mindful of and I have to be cautious about 273 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 1: in my own life to be honest. For me, the 274 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 1: one that I related to most was Jeff's critical parents. 275 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 1: I called my mom and it was a snotty, crying 276 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 1: mess and told her, when you say those things, it 277 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 1: makes me feel really bad. And I've been working really 278 00:13:56,800 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: hard to accept myself. I love myself and it just 279 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:05,359 Speaker 1: really hurts. I'd appreciate if you didn't. And her response 280 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 1: was something along the lines of, you think you've got problems, 281 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 1: get over it. Like I I deal with these things too. 282 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 1: And I think that resonated with a lot of people. 283 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 1: This was somebody who was married, had had a new baby, 284 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 1: and his parents were making critical comments to him, to 285 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 1: his wife, um and even about the baby. It's like 286 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:30,640 Speaker 1: a newborn baby, um and. And I think that, you know, 287 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 1: for people who grew up with critical parents, and I 288 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 1: certainly have some experience with that. I've written about it 289 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 1: in maybe you should talk to someone about my relationship 290 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 1: with my mother. There's there's a lot to unpack there 291 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: around what it means to be an adult and how 292 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: easily we regress to that, you know, being being twelve, 293 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 1: being sixteen again in the face of a just a 294 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 1: comment or a look that your parent gives you, and 295 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you're back in that place. If 296 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 1: I'm helpless in the face of this person who's criticizing me. 297 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 1: And I think that we really helped Jeff so much 298 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 1: in that episode and and had so much personal resonance 299 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: for me too. It was something that I had to 300 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 1: do on my own, um emotional journey throughout the years, 301 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 1: and I hope that Jeff will carry out with him. Yeah, 302 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: Jeff was a great person. I really hope is doing well. 303 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 1: Next question, you want to read the next question, Laurie, 304 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 1: which person do you think made the most progress? Someone asked, Oh, yes, Um. 305 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 1: I think um both Shannon and Shwina Um made the 306 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 1: most progress. And by the way, I think, as Laurie said, 307 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 1: everyone did, I think everyone really did a good job 308 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 1: of moving forward in some kind of way. Shannon, she 309 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 1: wrote to us saying that she's dreading the holidays because 310 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 1: of this recent divorce that she had, and her follow 311 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 1: up voicemail was such that the joy in her voice 312 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 1: was very clear that she reclaimed these holidays and she 313 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 1: had an amazing time and just hearing the difference between 314 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 1: the letter and the joy was profound to just me up. 315 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 1: She's been really fun. Um. I set up for Hanukkah 316 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 1: zoom calls with all of my family and friends, my 317 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: dad the first night, my brother the second night, and 318 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 1: then a lot of my friends. Everybody wanted to join, 319 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 1: so doing a lot of zoom calls the other nights 320 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 1: of Honka. So thank you so much. I'm so excited 321 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 1: not just for the holidays, but honestly for just living 322 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:29,600 Speaker 1: a healthier life that is much more aligned to um 323 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 1: what I need. And we should also mention that what 324 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: you guys didn't get was she actually sent us an 325 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 1: email afterwards where she showed us screenshots of her zooms, 326 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 1: her zoom with her mother, the different nights of Honica 327 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 1: that she did with her friends. Yeah, we got so much, 328 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 1: and so many times we get an update in addition 329 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: to the update. You hear people will send us an 330 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 1: update later on about what happened, and somebody had actually 331 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 1: asked will there be longer term updates, And we are 332 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:05,160 Speaker 1: thinking about doing that because it's really interesting to see 333 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:07,439 Speaker 1: what happens right away in terms of an update, but 334 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 1: we get longer term updates and we'd love to share 335 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 1: those with you as well. The other person was Shena. 336 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 1: I think that made a lot of progress because she 337 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 1: started out coming to us she's heartbroken, she's really into 338 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,879 Speaker 1: this guy still, she's really pining for this man, and truly, 339 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 1: by the end of the episode, she was I think 340 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:27,440 Speaker 1: over him. She wasn't over the pain and the loss 341 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 1: and that that we tried to separate. You know, are 342 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,440 Speaker 1: you are you feeling the grief over losing this guy 343 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:36,119 Speaker 1: or are you feeling this long standing She had always 344 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 1: felt alone in her life. So she had felt abandoned 345 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:41,920 Speaker 1: by her family, She had felt alone in her family. UM, 346 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 1: she had never really felt loved in the way that 347 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 1: in this reciprocal way, and so it was really, you know, 348 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 1: it was lost layered upon loss. It wasn't necessarily about 349 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 1: this guy who quite frankly was not right for her 350 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 1: UM and I think she was coming to see that. 351 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:57,960 Speaker 1: And so what does heartbreak really about? And when people 352 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 1: go through breakups? There are so many layers to the loss. 353 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 1: It's not just the loss of that person. It's the 354 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 1: loss of the future that they had imagined together. Is 355 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:08,680 Speaker 1: the loss of the dailiness of having that companionship. It's 356 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:13,119 Speaker 1: the loss of the the whole story around the person 357 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 1: and not just the actual person, and the story the 358 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 1: historical story as well. And that's what she did so well. 359 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: She made that separation. She was not over the pain. 360 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 1: The che was clear that this guy was not her 361 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 1: So that I think again, and in very short amount 362 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:29,879 Speaker 1: of time, was a lot of steps forward and in 363 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:32,920 Speaker 1: terms of the person that I think made the most progress, again, 364 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:36,360 Speaker 1: I think everybody makes tremendous progress. UM. I thought that 365 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 1: Mike's Messy Affair was the name of the episode, and 366 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:42,200 Speaker 1: he's the guy who came in and said, everybody thinks 367 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 1: I'm terrible for cheating on my wife and leaving her 368 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:48,360 Speaker 1: for this other person, um. And and it's easy not 369 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 1: to like him at first. And I think when couples 370 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,359 Speaker 1: come into us and there's been an affair, UM, we 371 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:56,400 Speaker 1: need to join with both people because the person who 372 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 1: had the affair is going to think, you know, they're 373 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:01,159 Speaker 1: very contrived and they feel very guilty or whatever it is, 374 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:03,640 Speaker 1: but they think I'm gonna get slammed in here, I'm 375 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:05,199 Speaker 1: gonna be the bad guy in here, and then you 376 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 1: don't get to the why of the what um. And 377 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:11,159 Speaker 1: I think for my it was it was you know, 378 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:13,200 Speaker 1: we we very much empathized with the wife and the 379 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 1: fact we were trying to get him to empathize with 380 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 1: the wife who was left, and it was very hard 381 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 1: to get him to perspective take at first, but when 382 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:23,159 Speaker 1: he did, and we did it through the through the 383 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 1: friend we came in the back door with him because 384 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:26,680 Speaker 1: he said, my friends think this, and we thought it's 385 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 1: gonna be easier. And again, guyan are not communicating outside 386 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:32,400 Speaker 1: of what you hear, so we have to read each other. 387 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:34,639 Speaker 1: And we both kind of realized that the same moment. 388 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 1: Wait a minute, there's something here with the friends. Let's 389 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:39,239 Speaker 1: work with the friends first and why his friends are 390 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 1: so upset with him, and if he can empathize with 391 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:44,280 Speaker 1: his friends and what they might be feeling, maybe then 392 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:46,359 Speaker 1: we can get him to empathize with the wife in 393 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 1: a different way. But he had so much shame, and 394 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 1: when you're shrouded in shame, you can't feel empathy for 395 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:55,200 Speaker 1: the other person because you're so busy defending yourself against 396 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:57,439 Speaker 1: I'm a bad person, and we're saying you're not a 397 00:19:57,440 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: bad person, but you did do a bad thing, and 398 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:02,439 Speaker 1: they is a difference. Right, you did mess up, But 399 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 1: let's look at what you don't repeat this and inflict 400 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:07,119 Speaker 1: this on your new partner, and so that you can 401 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 1: have a better relationship with your ex wife no matter 402 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:13,879 Speaker 1: how she processes this, and so that your kids have 403 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:17,399 Speaker 1: a different experience of this as well. Yeah, Mike, Michael 404 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 1: was really impression that he was game to go with 405 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 1: us in a path that was really very very difficult 406 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:25,120 Speaker 1: to him. And he was game and he was open 407 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 1: and that was impressive, right, and we and we asked 408 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 1: him to do these exercises. I think a lot of 409 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:30,879 Speaker 1: what we do in the podcast and you'll see us 410 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:34,040 Speaker 1: in season two also because you do exercises in the moment. 411 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:36,080 Speaker 1: You know, with that couple that we saw where they 412 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:37,639 Speaker 1: couldn't decide where to live, we have them do the 413 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:40,960 Speaker 1: paper exercise in the moment. You know, it was a 414 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 1: little harder for you all to understand it, I think 415 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:45,800 Speaker 1: because you couldn't see it the way we were seeing it. 416 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:48,359 Speaker 1: But we narrated it like we were narrating like a 417 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:50,359 Speaker 1: sporting event, like you have the play by playoff and 418 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 1: now he's got right now, there's no movement on the 419 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 1: paper whatsoever. It's very typical. There's a lot of discussion, 420 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:01,159 Speaker 1: but the paper is not moving. Well, we'll see sometimes 421 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:03,439 Speaker 1: what happens is nothing happens, and then they realize they 422 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 1: have ten seconds left, and then somebody just says, okay, 423 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 1: you have it. Now it's a minute and ten seconds 424 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:12,239 Speaker 1: it has been and they're still talking. Let's give them 425 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:13,680 Speaker 1: just a few more seconds. I just want to hear 426 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 1: what they're saying. My thing is fundamental to who I 427 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:23,399 Speaker 1: am in some ways, like about how I got to 428 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 1: who I am today and represents my past, peasant, present 429 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:31,959 Speaker 1: in future. Can you tell me something like that about 430 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 1: it's uh, something of how I want to live my 431 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 1: life into the future. Probably get to the next question 432 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 1: we have is did you too always agree or do 433 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 1: you ever want to suggest different advice or or a 434 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 1: different approach. Um, You know, we don't always agree, and 435 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,480 Speaker 1: I think that's that's the beauty of what we're doing, 436 00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 1: is that you do get two different perspectives on the 437 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:03,000 Speaker 1: same issue. Um. And so what I think that that 438 00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 1: what we do do is we can see why the 439 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:08,120 Speaker 1: other person feels the way they do, and so you'll 440 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:10,720 Speaker 1: see us. You know, sometimes you'll hear in the podcast, 441 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:12,920 Speaker 1: you know, I'll say something and the guy will kind 442 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:17,679 Speaker 1: of say yes and right, and he'll have a different perspective. 443 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:19,720 Speaker 1: Or I will say, yes, I can see that, and 444 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:22,959 Speaker 1: also let's look over here too. So sometimes we do 445 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 1: have different ideas. And in terms of the advice, I 446 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 1: think that's why we often have different parts to the advice, 447 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:31,159 Speaker 1: because some of it is like God thinks this and 448 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 1: I think this. It's not that we disagree with the 449 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:35,919 Speaker 1: other person's approach, because we wouldn't give the advice if 450 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 1: we both didn't agree with it. But maybe we both 451 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,359 Speaker 1: have different ideas about we think both of these things 452 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:44,639 Speaker 1: would be helpful in therapy, the way it works is 453 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 1: that there are many threads that you can pull and 454 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:49,399 Speaker 1: and they will all lead to some of the places 455 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 1: because they're all about the same person and how we 456 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:53,920 Speaker 1: relate and how we think. But you can get there 457 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:57,159 Speaker 1: via many different thoughts, and so when we disagree, it's 458 00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:58,879 Speaker 1: not that we disagree on where we need to go. 459 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 1: It's that that thread is more appealing to me, while 460 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,320 Speaker 1: that other thread might be more appealing to Laurie. And 461 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:06,720 Speaker 1: so she's trying to pull pull that one, I'm trying 462 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 1: to pull the other one. We know we're going to 463 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:10,480 Speaker 1: the same place and then we'll find a way to 464 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 1: just you know, get there. But but in the many 465 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 1: different parts and in therapy, we wouldn't have to have 466 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:17,240 Speaker 1: that pressure because we'll deal with this this week and 467 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 1: we can, you know, deal with the other one next week. 468 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:21,880 Speaker 1: Here we have such a limited amount of time. That's 469 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,440 Speaker 1: where the pressure comes from. But also the excitement, I think, 470 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:26,720 Speaker 1: and the and the interest for us and really being 471 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:29,120 Speaker 1: on our toes in terms of okay, what's the best 472 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 1: way to get them in the time to you. You know, 473 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:33,439 Speaker 1: that leads into the next question, which is what's the 474 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:39,680 Speaker 1: hardest part about being a therapist? Somebody asked, um, Okay, 475 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,119 Speaker 1: for me, I I think it's it's a very I mean, 476 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 1: I find it extremely rewarding. I truly enjoy what I do. 477 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: It's very isolated in the sense that, yes, you're talking 478 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 1: with people all day, so you think, like, wow, that's 479 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 1: the most social job you can possibly have, but it's 480 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 1: not because you're actually focused in a very very specific way. 481 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 1: You're not talking about yourself, you know, really relating in 482 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:04,159 Speaker 1: an equal way, and no one gets to see what 483 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,240 Speaker 1: you're doing. You're doing it in a room with a 484 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:08,480 Speaker 1: with a closed door or these days with a zoom 485 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 1: with the closed door, and and so you know, no 486 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 1: one gets to see that if you did well, if 487 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 1: you all you know, and and that pod feels isolating. 488 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 1: And that's why this podcast for me is such a 489 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 1: pleasure because I get to work with someone and see 490 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 1: what Laurie does, and she sees what I do when 491 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:26,560 Speaker 1: we get to do it together, and it feels cooperative 492 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 1: and and and it's a very unusual experience for a 493 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 1: therapist to be able to work side by side with 494 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:35,639 Speaker 1: someone regularly. It's it feels great like it it's so 495 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:38,679 Speaker 1: that part is truly enjoyable. And I think that what 496 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 1: we're doing is we're bearing witness to people's lives. And 497 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 1: you know that that's in my book. Maybe she'd talk 498 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,160 Speaker 1: to someone and trying to show that experience, but it's 499 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 1: on the page. And I think here with guy, you 500 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,639 Speaker 1: have two people who are bearing witness to your life. 501 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,160 Speaker 1: And people have been so generous with us. I mean, 502 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:58,920 Speaker 1: we so appreciate that they are so open and they 503 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 1: trust us, and they're willing to go there with us, 504 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,159 Speaker 1: even though we don't have any pre established relationship like 505 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,919 Speaker 1: we do with our patients normally, and and they just 506 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 1: they go right into it with us. It's it's such 507 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:12,920 Speaker 1: a privilege and and really an honor. And I think 508 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: that one of the hardest things then, to go back 509 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,879 Speaker 1: to the question, is that we get very attached. You know, 510 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,119 Speaker 1: we really, on the one hand, we really want to 511 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 1: help them, So there is I wouldn't say there's pressure 512 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 1: so much, but I think there's very much a caring 513 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 1: and I wanting to say, I wish I had more 514 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 1: time with you, I wish I could do more, But 515 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 1: here's what we can do today on this podcast, UM. 516 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 1: And I think the other part that's hard is just 517 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:39,639 Speaker 1: that we can't. We might see something and we're ahead 518 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 1: of them because we're not living that experience. UM. And 519 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 1: we really want them to get to a certain place 520 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 1: so that they can live, you know, an easier life. 521 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 1: They can navigate things more smoothly, and we can't push 522 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 1: them too quickly because it will backfire. We always talk 523 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 1: about timing and dosage, right, so what do you say 524 00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 1: at that time and then how much do you deliver? 525 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,200 Speaker 1: What's the dosage that you do? Ever on the podcast, 526 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 1: it's completely recalibrated and that's one of the joys and 527 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 1: things that we don't get in the same way in 528 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:09,400 Speaker 1: the therapy room because we have to approach it differently. 529 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 1: They're a little bit different. There's a there's a concept 530 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,360 Speaker 1: in therapy in terms of you have to time your intervention. 531 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 1: Somebody has to be ready to hear what you're saying, 532 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 1: especially if it's going to be counter something They feel 533 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 1: or think of belief. We don't have that luxury, and 534 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,479 Speaker 1: unfortunately neither do the fellow travelers that come on our podcast. 535 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,040 Speaker 1: We're going to tell it to them very directly, whether 536 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:31,760 Speaker 1: they're ready to hear it or not. Now we will 537 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 1: try and save in a way that will be easiest 538 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:36,879 Speaker 1: for them to hear, but we are delivering the news 539 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,159 Speaker 1: that would probably take us a long time to deliver 540 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 1: and set up and create readiness for in a therapy context. 541 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 1: We're allowing ahead with it very very directly now in 542 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:49,120 Speaker 1: the podcast. And and so I think it's what makes 543 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 1: it very very vibrant, but it's also different a little 544 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 1: bit in therapy and that it's a little kinder and 545 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 1: gentle of the process. So if anyone feels like, oh, 546 00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,359 Speaker 1: that seems a little scary, if that's what therapy is, 547 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,720 Speaker 1: it's little kind of generally, yes, it's what it is, 548 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:04,440 Speaker 1: but it's a it's a little kind of a little 549 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 1: very very direct in in the podcast by necessity. And 550 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:11,199 Speaker 1: I think that it's helpful for people, you know, in 551 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:13,960 Speaker 1: this context because they know that that's what they're signing 552 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 1: up for. So so just know that if you're going 553 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,159 Speaker 1: to therapy, it's you know, it'll be a little more 554 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,200 Speaker 1: kinder and gentler. But I think we are kind I 555 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:26,840 Speaker 1: think that we're just more try But it's also different everything. 556 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 1: For me, I don't know about you know. For me, 557 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:30,280 Speaker 1: it's a little liberating to be like, I don't have 558 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:32,280 Speaker 1: to wait a few weeks to be able to say 559 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 1: the thing that I'm not I'm gonna have to say. 560 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,280 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna say now and now again kindly and considerately. 561 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 1: But there's something liberating about you lay all out everything 562 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,199 Speaker 1: has to give them. Yeah, I think also with two people, 563 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 1: I think there's a sense that they can feel our 564 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 1: love right and they can feel that, you know, if 565 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 1: one of us says something very direct, there's the other 566 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,200 Speaker 1: person to kind of be there to hold them. So 567 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 1: if if God, you say something very direct, I will 568 00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:58,879 Speaker 1: then be the person to hold them. And if I 569 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 1: say something very direct, then you come in and you're 570 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:03,680 Speaker 1: there to hold that. And I think that's something that's 571 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,679 Speaker 1: really beautiful about the tag teaming, that that gives us 572 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:08,639 Speaker 1: the forum to do that, that gives the capability to 573 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:14,680 Speaker 1: it's like good and yes, yes there is no bad 574 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 1: cop here. It's a very safe space. That's what we're 575 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:25,840 Speaker 1: trying to create for people. You're listening to deal therapists 576 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,920 Speaker 1: from My Heart Radio. We'll be back after a quick break. 577 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,240 Speaker 1: We do have a question about do we have any 578 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,480 Speaker 1: episodes that focus on trauma? And I want to say 579 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 1: about that that, you know, I talk a lot about 580 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,880 Speaker 1: the hierarchy of pain, that there is no hierarchy of pain, 581 00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaker 1: that pain is pain, and so I think that a 582 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:01,320 Speaker 1: lot of people feel like what they ex arienced isn't 583 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 1: traumatic enough to to to say, you know, like, we 584 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 1: had so many episodes where look at the divorce, the 585 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 1: Shannon who came in and she said, you know, I've 586 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 1: been through this divorce. Was this very abusive relationship, very 587 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 1: emostly abusive relationship. I would call that trauma. I think 588 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:18,840 Speaker 1: she knew in her body because she was having that 589 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 1: reaction that she had experienced trauma, but she was was 590 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 1: so reluctant to call her experience trauma. Molly Um experienced trauma. 591 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 1: Her father committed suicide and her mother said, you know 592 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 1: why he did it, It was because of you. That's trauma. Um. 593 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:36,880 Speaker 1: A lot of us say, well, like function really well 594 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:38,760 Speaker 1: and I'm really successful at my job, or I have 595 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:40,280 Speaker 1: a good job and I have good friends, and I 596 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:42,080 Speaker 1: have a roof over my head, and I have food 597 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 1: on the table, so I I haven't really experienced trauma. 598 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:49,720 Speaker 1: Trauma is like you know something catastrophic that you can 599 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,400 Speaker 1: name it and you can pinpoint it. And sometimes trauma 600 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 1: is um, Jeff who lived with critical parents his whole life, right, Um, 601 00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 1: there's trauma in that. So so I think when you 602 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 1: say have you dealt with trauma? We would love your letters. 603 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 1: If you have an experience, please send them to us. 604 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 1: For season two, we've taped about six of the twenty 605 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,920 Speaker 1: so far. We got fourteen more to go. Please send 606 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 1: us your letters. If there's an event you want us 607 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 1: to deal with trauma in a more direct way, please 608 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 1: send us your letters. But I think that you can 609 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,959 Speaker 1: hear that and not that everybody experiences trauma. That's not 610 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,120 Speaker 1: what I'm saying. But I am saying that sometimes people 611 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,480 Speaker 1: minimize their experiences, um, and I think it's important to 612 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 1: label them because they think it helps you to move 613 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,280 Speaker 1: past them. It doesn't. I think when people don't label them, 614 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:32,640 Speaker 1: they stay stuck in that. And when you're able to 615 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 1: label it, you're able to say, oh, yes, that was 616 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:36,880 Speaker 1: my experience, and now you can say now what and 617 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:40,760 Speaker 1: you can move forward. One question here is just it's 618 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 1: a it's just a one that made me laugh and 619 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,320 Speaker 1: I'm not even so why what that question is about 620 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:49,120 Speaker 1: is is guy wins Wendell from your book, La and 621 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,080 Speaker 1: okay we can we can tell you. The answer is no, 622 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,480 Speaker 1: it's very much because I think the last thing that 623 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:02,680 Speaker 1: therapists would do, um Gwendoline in Laurie's book is is 624 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:04,480 Speaker 1: the therapist that she goes. So I think the last 625 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 1: thing therapist would do was go, Okay, we're done with 626 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 1: the therapy, want to do a podcast together? That would 627 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 1: be fun. That's not That's not what one would do. 628 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:14,520 Speaker 1: So I I just think it's funny. I also think 629 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 1: it's very funny that based on the physical description that 630 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 1: I gave of my therapist Wendell in the book, that 631 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:24,960 Speaker 1: they said he looks like guy, which guys know we're cardigans. 632 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 1: If you notice he doesn't have cardigans with a little 633 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 1: elbow patch. Um so no, guy, guys not is not 634 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 1: my therapist. Although sometimes in our conversations, um, you know, 635 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 1: in our private conversations, I think we can be a 636 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,280 Speaker 1: therapist to each other. We're really a friend to each other. 637 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:42,040 Speaker 1: But I think we're very good people to bounce situations 638 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:44,560 Speaker 1: off of and think I think we have a good 639 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 1: question here. Since we're gonna we're gonna wrap up soon. 640 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,680 Speaker 1: Somebody asked, teach us how to be a good listener. 641 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:51,960 Speaker 1: We can't. I'll be therapist, but we need to learn 642 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,520 Speaker 1: how to listen and empathize. Um, that is such a 643 00:31:55,600 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 1: great question. So, first of all, how to be a 644 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 1: good listener is active listening is considered when you are 645 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,640 Speaker 1: actually truly listening to the person, not trying to plan 646 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:09,880 Speaker 1: what you say back or what story you have that 647 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,240 Speaker 1: relates to it, but you're really trying to listen to them, 648 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,440 Speaker 1: and you're reflecting that both in words and in body 649 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,840 Speaker 1: language and in follow up questions. And body language is important. 650 00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 1: Verbal nonverbal, when you're nodding, when you're saying oh wow, 651 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,680 Speaker 1: So that sounds really difficult. So that sounds really painful. 652 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:28,120 Speaker 1: Oh I didn't realize that was so upsetting to you. 653 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,480 Speaker 1: Anything like that conveys that, no, I'm listening and I'm 654 00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,640 Speaker 1: reacting to what you're saying. Too often people just listen 655 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 1: and they are listening, but they don't say anything, and 656 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 1: then right, oh mama, it doesn't convey that you are 657 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:44,120 Speaker 1: really listening. It's not satisfying to the other person. So 658 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:47,040 Speaker 1: active listening really means that you're conveying to the other person, 659 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,960 Speaker 1: really showing them that you're hearing what they're saying. Somebody said, 660 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,400 Speaker 1: can you give up some examples? There's some examples would 661 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 1: be this, so especially in couples, but anybody who comes 662 00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 1: to you right Um, First of all, I would always 663 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:00,520 Speaker 1: say to someone who comes to me as a friend, 664 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,520 Speaker 1: not as therapist. But somebody comes to me as a friend, Um, 665 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 1: I might say, you know, they're coming to me with something. 666 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 1: I might say, you know, how can I be helpful 667 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 1: in this conversation? Do you just want to event? Do 668 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 1: you want me to brainstorm solutions with you? You want 669 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:15,720 Speaker 1: to hear what I what I'm honestly thinking right now? 670 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,120 Speaker 1: Or do you want to save that for later? Um? 671 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:19,720 Speaker 1: What is it that that would be really helped? Do 672 00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:21,480 Speaker 1: you just want to hug right now? Do you just 673 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 1: want someone to hear you? Do you want to just 674 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:26,400 Speaker 1: feel understood right now? That is a great place to start. 675 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 1: People don't tend to ask that, and so they give 676 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,520 Speaker 1: the wrong thing. They think that they're being a helpful listener, 677 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:34,560 Speaker 1: but they're actually providing something that the person coming to 678 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,280 Speaker 1: them is not wanting in that moment, and they're not 679 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:40,560 Speaker 1: giving the thing that the person is wanting in that moment. 680 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:42,800 Speaker 1: So what you see with couples is you see someone 681 00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:47,680 Speaker 1: will say something and um, and the person is thinking, oh, 682 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 1: I'm feeling criticized by what they're saying right now, So 683 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,480 Speaker 1: I'm going to answer with, oh, yes, I can see 684 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:54,840 Speaker 1: how you feel that way. And now let me tell 685 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 1: you why everything you just said is invalid, right, Um, 686 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:02,640 Speaker 1: you know and and and at all, right, right, so 687 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 1: it invalidates, it makes it makes you not trust that 688 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 1: they actually do understand you. But then you then you 689 00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:12,239 Speaker 1: lodge a defense, right um. So really really listening is 690 00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:17,280 Speaker 1: being able to understand what that person is experiencing without 691 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,480 Speaker 1: agreeing to it. So it doesn't mean that you agree 692 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:23,799 Speaker 1: that that is your experience too. You agree that that 693 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:27,320 Speaker 1: is their experience. So you're not saying, yes, I understand 694 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:29,839 Speaker 1: and that was my experience. You're saying, I see that 695 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:32,280 Speaker 1: that was your experience. I can see I can understand 696 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,560 Speaker 1: that you're not crazy. I can understand that you felt 697 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,040 Speaker 1: that way even though I have a different experience. I 698 00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 1: understand that what you just said, what you describe just 699 00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 1: now is emotional mediation, emotional validation. People are afraid to 700 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:46,440 Speaker 1: do it sometimes because they feel if I say I 701 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:48,279 Speaker 1: understand why you feel the way you do, and of 702 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:51,080 Speaker 1: course you feel that way, it means therefore I must 703 00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:52,800 Speaker 1: I must have been the bad person who made you 704 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 1: feel that way. I was responsible for that. There's a 705 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:57,960 Speaker 1: very very separate things, and these quick examples of gay 706 00:34:58,000 --> 00:34:59,520 Speaker 1: which a city one, but it will be clarified, like 707 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,439 Speaker 1: I can understand why you were annoyed, and I've said 708 00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:05,120 Speaker 1: that I was half an hour later the movie, and 709 00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:07,520 Speaker 1: then you can add but your email did say seven 710 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,799 Speaker 1: thirty simple, and so you are actually saying it wasn't 711 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:12,560 Speaker 1: like but you can stop by saying, but I understand 712 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:14,040 Speaker 1: how upsetting it was to wait for me to half 713 00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:16,200 Speaker 1: an hour and not more where I am. So those 714 00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 1: are very separate things. So so many times when people 715 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,960 Speaker 1: are listening, they feel blamed. So someone says, like, you know, 716 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:23,960 Speaker 1: I'm hungry, and the person says, what you didn't like 717 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:26,880 Speaker 1: the dinner I cooked? Right? You know, it's those kinds 718 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:30,920 Speaker 1: of those kinds of things. I think also we've acted listening, Um, 719 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:34,480 Speaker 1: you really you really, it's it's not so much about 720 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,680 Speaker 1: what you say, it's about how you are, how you 721 00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:40,640 Speaker 1: sit with the person. And you can use three words 722 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:43,319 Speaker 1: that are very helpful when you don't know what to say, 723 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:45,279 Speaker 1: or you feel like, oh, they're in so much pain 724 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:46,960 Speaker 1: and I really want to help them right now, but 725 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:50,200 Speaker 1: I don't know how. You simply say tell me more, 726 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:53,160 Speaker 1: and they will tell you more, and you sit with 727 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:55,560 Speaker 1: them and you sit with their experience, and you breathe, 728 00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:58,160 Speaker 1: and you try to stay with them and not with you, 729 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:00,800 Speaker 1: and you breathe, and then you say something more and 730 00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:03,160 Speaker 1: you're really listening, and you will start getting interested in 731 00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:05,080 Speaker 1: what they're saying because you're not so much in your 732 00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:07,640 Speaker 1: head now, but you're really sitting with them, you're really 733 00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:10,160 Speaker 1: present with them, you're really connecting with them, and you 734 00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:13,160 Speaker 1: keep saying, oh, tell me more, say more. We do 735 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:15,560 Speaker 1: that all the time's therapists. It's not it's not like 736 00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:19,279 Speaker 1: a technique. It's a way of actually making sure that 737 00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:23,600 Speaker 1: you are present with the person as the pocket. Okay, 738 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:26,120 Speaker 1: so then we had some questions about when the season 739 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:29,800 Speaker 1: to start and what can we expect from season two. 740 00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:33,080 Speaker 1: Season two is going to start sometime in the spring. 741 00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:36,040 Speaker 1: We don't quite know when yet because we're still taking 742 00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:38,920 Speaker 1: episodes and there other kind of production issues, but it 743 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,680 Speaker 1: will be sometime in the spring for sure, and we'll 744 00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,719 Speaker 1: let you know ahead of time when that will be. UM, 745 00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:48,080 Speaker 1: so keep sending letters because we're still have a lot 746 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,600 Speaker 1: of episodes to take. Also, I just wanted to say 747 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:53,600 Speaker 1: that we will be doing a few other Instagram lives 748 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:57,919 Speaker 1: where we die more deeply into a particular episode from 749 00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:01,160 Speaker 1: season one. So we would love you to let us 750 00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:04,799 Speaker 1: know on Instagram, like a book club, but a podcast club, 751 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:08,440 Speaker 1: if you want us to focus on a particular episode, 752 00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:10,879 Speaker 1: which episode would it be, and we will do a 753 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:15,080 Speaker 1: very deep dive behind the scenes on that particular episode. 754 00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:17,120 Speaker 1: Because we really feel like it's one thing to listen 755 00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:20,359 Speaker 1: to an episode once, but then when you heard more 756 00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:22,239 Speaker 1: about it and you and you kind of examine it 757 00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:23,560 Speaker 1: a little bit more, and then you go back and 758 00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:25,799 Speaker 1: listen again, you're going to hear all kinds of things 759 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:28,120 Speaker 1: that you didn't hear the first time, and you'll get 760 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:30,040 Speaker 1: so much more out of that episode. So I think 761 00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:34,080 Speaker 1: these episodes are meant to be listened to multiple times. UM, 762 00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:36,080 Speaker 1: And I think having a discussion and a deep dive 763 00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:39,360 Speaker 1: into a particular episode. It's very very helpful and into 764 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:42,719 Speaker 1: the issues that that episode presents because we you know, 765 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 1: we have a slice of an issue with the episode, 766 00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:46,440 Speaker 1: but we can then expand a little bit more about 767 00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:48,719 Speaker 1: that issue in general and talk about it in a 768 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:50,919 Speaker 1: in a world of context as well. So we hope 769 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:53,360 Speaker 1: to hear from you so we'll know what your preferences 770 00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:55,640 Speaker 1: are in terms of which one of those which of 771 00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:59,239 Speaker 1: the episodes you would like us to do that deep dive. Yeah. 772 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:01,680 Speaker 1: And another example, well that is I think, um, you know, 773 00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:06,200 Speaker 1: there was that the Hayley's Perfect Sister and somebody wrote 774 00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:09,320 Speaker 1: on Instagram today that that was really powerful and in 775 00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:11,560 Speaker 1: and seeing how she could take back her power. And 776 00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:14,600 Speaker 1: we got so many questions about siblings. Um, we get 777 00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:16,880 Speaker 1: so many letters about them, and so we never know, 778 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:18,960 Speaker 1: you know, when we were thinking today we deep dive 779 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,640 Speaker 1: into one particular episode, we thought, let's just talk about 780 00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,120 Speaker 1: season one in general, but next time, we really want 781 00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:28,120 Speaker 1: to spend the time talking about one particular episode that 782 00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:31,759 Speaker 1: really resonated and helping people to kind of unpack that 783 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:33,239 Speaker 1: one so they can go back and listen to it 784 00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,839 Speaker 1: a little bit differently and get even more out of it, 785 00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:38,120 Speaker 1: and we just want to say two with season two. 786 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:42,320 Speaker 1: Please submit your letters to Lori and Guy at iHeart 787 00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:46,520 Speaker 1: media dot com and um, thank you all so much 788 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:51,360 Speaker 1: for listening, for sharing. Please send specific episodes that you 789 00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:53,759 Speaker 1: think would help a friend or family member to those 790 00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:57,360 Speaker 1: people you know who they are, and please continue to 791 00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:59,800 Speaker 1: rate and review us. That's what got us back on 792 00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:02,040 Speaker 1: season two, what it's what will get us back for 793 00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:04,399 Speaker 1: season three because we only have fourteen more to take 794 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:06,520 Speaker 1: for season two and there's so many more letters we 795 00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:09,280 Speaker 1: want to get to. So the more you can add 796 00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:12,160 Speaker 1: to the ratings and reviews on Apple Podcasts, the more 797 00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:15,319 Speaker 1: it helps us continue to do the podcast for you. 798 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:19,080 Speaker 1: So thank you so much, and we hope that everyone 799 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:23,000 Speaker 1: is staying healthy and in mind and in body and 800 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:26,160 Speaker 1: get through this uh still difficult times that we're having 801 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,880 Speaker 1: and we very much look forward to help you by 802 00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:33,160 Speaker 1: you know, giving you our best advice and sharing our 803 00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:36,719 Speaker 1: thoughts and and really hoping that you can use them 804 00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:40,279 Speaker 1: to better your lives. During COVID, I think people have 805 00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:43,879 Speaker 1: felt so isolated and disconnected and alone. And I think 806 00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:46,680 Speaker 1: people feel alone in their problems anyway because people don't 807 00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:48,480 Speaker 1: really talk about them and what we do on the 808 00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:50,719 Speaker 1: podcast is we talk about them so people can say, oh, 809 00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:53,000 Speaker 1: it's not just me, Oh look at this. This is 810 00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:56,680 Speaker 1: such a universal issue. And on the thing that I 811 00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,279 Speaker 1: love about during COVID is that so many people have 812 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:03,080 Speaker 1: gone on walks just to get outside, connect with nature, 813 00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:07,359 Speaker 1: get exercise, get those endorphins going, so good for your 814 00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:10,040 Speaker 1: emotional health. And they've taken us along and they've said, 815 00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,840 Speaker 1: You've accompanied me on so many walks, and I feel 816 00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:15,799 Speaker 1: like it just it brings us so much joy to 817 00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:18,560 Speaker 1: know that people are taking care of their emotional health, 818 00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:22,360 Speaker 1: but getting outside, they're connecting their listening to the podcast, 819 00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:25,080 Speaker 1: they're taking care of themselves. So thank you all for 820 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:27,400 Speaker 1: really taking seriously what we're trying to do here and 821 00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:30,200 Speaker 1: what our mission is. We so appreciate it and we 822 00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:38,960 Speaker 1: will see you soon. Hey, fellow travelers, if you've used 823 00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:41,640 Speaker 1: any of our advice from the podcast in your own life, 824 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,479 Speaker 1: send us a quick voice memo to Lorie and Guy 825 00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:47,319 Speaker 1: at I heart media dot com and tell us about it. 826 00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:49,680 Speaker 1: We may include it in the future show. And if 827 00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:53,400 Speaker 1: you're enjoying our podcast, please help support Dear Therapists. You 828 00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:55,440 Speaker 1: can tell your friends about it and we'd be so 829 00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:57,759 Speaker 1: grateful if you'd leave us a five star review on 830 00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:01,480 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts. Your reviews help people find the show. You 831 00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,799 Speaker 1: can follow us both online. I'm at Lori Gottlieb dot 832 00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:07,239 Speaker 1: com and you can follow me on Twitter at Lori 833 00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:11,880 Speaker 1: Gottlieb one or on Instagram at Lori Gottlieb Underscore Author, 834 00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:15,040 Speaker 1: and I'm at guy Winch dot com. I'm on Twitter 835 00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:18,440 Speaker 1: and on Instagram at guy Winch. If you have a 836 00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:20,840 Speaker 1: dilemma you'd like to discuss with us, big or small, 837 00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:25,200 Speaker 1: email us at Lorian Guy at I heart media dot com. 838 00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:29,320 Speaker 1: Our executive producers Christopher hasci Otis, were produced and edited 839 00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:33,319 Speaker 1: by Mike John's Special thanks to Samuel Bennefield and to 840 00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:38,160 Speaker 1: our podcast Fairy Godmother Katie Couric. Dear Therapists is a 841 00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:40,200 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio